What to do When It's too Late - 02/05/25

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:13):
What to do when it becomes too late for humans
to correct their behavior? Author researcher, professor, and climate change
expert David Hawk says such a question implies a need
for change, and herein an argument is presented that humans
believe in their own immortality, but a price is paid

(00:34):
for support of that belief. Humans protect themselves from change
via culture, and it's implied changelessness. As summers bring intolerable
heat that increases and storms that eliminate insurance companies, humans
began to think of change. Please welcome the host of

(00:57):
What to Do when it becomes too late?

Speaker 2 (01:00):
David Hawk, Hello, my friends.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
I finally made it very sorry about last week. We
were ready to roll, but somehow there we had some
technical troubles and then I switched computers and the troubles
were even worse on the second computer. That this is
something that happened to us. I think last summer sometime

(01:36):
some unfriendly virus pusher in essence was trying to, shall
we say, stop the show, and so five minutes before
we began whole process when Haywire, then five minutes after
the show was to vended, it all came back and

(01:56):
my equipment was fine with new equipment now and new
virus detection. I think we're in good shape. So very
sorry about last week. This is the second time that
has happened. But I think they're testing us to see
if we have a sense of humor. And we'll move on,

(02:19):
and that will be part of tonight's show. How we're
going to emphasize a little more on leadership tonight and
the role of leadership. And it's too late, and thus
what you might do about finding it's too late, you
might well look to or attack or flush what we

(02:42):
normally know is leadership. And I'll go into some detail
on that, if indeed the dominant style of leadership in
twenty twenty five, meaning now, and if it's in essence
bestrustrated by the behavior of someone that at least on

(03:04):
LinkedIn I tend to call t Rump, but of course
other people are more affectionate and call him Donald, and
along with him we have the leadership allies of some
billionaire guidepost around him. Then when we see that model
of leadership, at least if we're still able to think,

(03:27):
we get a little bit disturbed about where things are going.
In the last two or three days, quite an example, So,
in essence, what do you do when it's too late, when,
in essence, leadership has ensured that it's too late. Sorry

(03:47):
about that, Okay, I have three items that I would
like to talk a bit about tonight. My advice to you,
and the first is you might try being a heretic.
Heretic is a person on the inside that questions what's

(04:08):
on the inside. Back in Sweden when we established this
magnificent institute called the Institute of International Business, and the
Financial Times did a great story on it as the
leading international business research group. Ten years later. Anyway, we

(04:29):
went into the issue of heretic and heresy and how
in essence the whole thing appeared to be based on
the idea of heresy. But of course, my friend Gooner,
co founder, he indeed was a heretic. Because you have
to be inside the religion to be a heretic. David

(04:54):
Hawk was not in the religion, so he was told
he could not be a heretic. He's too much of
an outsider and he doesn't qualify. So, in essence, be
a heretic a question. Don't blindly accept things when someone
talks to sell you something that you do not have

(05:15):
you question their presumptions. In other words, you have to
see what are the presumptions, if they have any. There
are such people that sell you things without presumptions, just
to sell. And warning I would give you is be
careful when they talk without punctuation. You may have noticed

(05:36):
that increasingly when you hear people on TV or even
in person, they speak without punctuation, meaning there's no sentence structure,
meaning it is a run on sentence that goes on
and on and on and no period, and you sit
there and wonder where the hell is the period. And
if you watch TV, you watch the interviewer interviewing the

(06:00):
review and sitting there wanting to know when it will
a period appear, so then I can clarify that they
did not answer my question. And politicians and scammers are
particularly good at doing this. In other words, the conclusion is,
as a heretic, be your own leader. Second, rely on

(06:22):
what I have long called negotiated order. And negotiated order
is a good pathway if things are too late and
you're looking for a way to improve it, a way out,
a way to make sense of what's happened, what's going on,
and so negotiated order in essence, insists that you question

(06:44):
legal order. You want to attain the potential and knowing
about lawful order, and you want to avoid the triviality
of legal order. What is legal order? Legal order by
definition is that the world of two dimensional legal papers,
two dimensional laws put on paper. So in essence, what

(07:08):
humans have imposed as their laws composes legal order. If
you go to law school, you'll learn a lot about
how to behave and make money visa the legal order
in society, and particularly making money in the US context.
Since we have five times as many lawyers per capita

(07:29):
as our trading partners, we need a lot of lawyers
because we have a lot of legal order that costs
a lot of money for almost everything. On the other hand,
lawful order is the order of the universe. It is
the order that every now and then scientists discover, such
as Einstein, etc. They find a key access route into

(07:53):
lawful order. Lawful order is the order of nature, the
order of the cosmos, the order of the universe, And
in essence, you don't find politicians quoting it or mentioning
it because in essence they've never heard of it, they
have no idea what it is. But that's what you
want to deal with, and that's why you want to

(08:14):
use negotiation to get there. In other words, as I'll
come back to a little bit, the best way to
deal with and open up negotiated order is to use
what's called open source. And open source is quite phenomenal.
I learned about it in Finland. It was the basis

(08:35):
for the founding of Nokia. Nokia became a fantastic company
based on open source approaches. I was somewhat of an
advisor to Nokia, but I remember my last meeting with
them in two thousand and four is when their CEO
and their management was discussing joining with Microsoft, where Microsoft

(09:01):
wanted them to use their software and bury that open
source stuff. Open source meaning anybody can see what it is,
anybody even everybody should open it up and modify it
and fix it. Whereas the stuff you get from Microsoft,
of course is all closed, all patent pending, and so

(09:24):
in essence they make money because it's theoretically closed. And
so we had that meeting in two thousand and four
where they discussed and the CEO of the time was
some finance not technology. He discussed joining with Microsoft using
Microsoft software get rid of the open source and eventually

(09:45):
merge into a closer relationship to Microsoft. I left the
room never to deal with Nokia again. I had no
interest in then becoming a subcategory to Microsoft. Over the
next decade, many more people agreed with me, Particularly the
next two three four years, customers began to walk away

(10:07):
from Nokia and the third area after negotiated order, we'll
call bring hope. The importance of hope, and the best
thing in order to bring hope into a situation is
to have humor, and humor is very important. A recent magazine,

(10:30):
I think by Who's Who put me on the cover
of the magazine and under my picture they had a
comment that David Hawk believes that when things get tough,
humor is needed. The tougher they get, the more humor
we need. Okay, so keep in mind, be a heretic,

(10:53):
use negotiated order, not legal order, and bring hope into
the situation.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
First image, and of course this is making fun of
much of a legal order and much of the world
of Microsoft, etcetera, etcetera, and then much of normal artificial

(11:19):
intelligence as it predated last week. Please read the sign.
But this is a sign that was going around and
it's quite popular. And another phrase is I live for money.
If you want to manage climate change, talk to someone
who cares. I'm meant it for money. I'm not into

(11:43):
it because I care, okay, next image. And then, of
course we have this other characteristic of what dominates my
to what we do, and most what we do is
we more or less trade and hatefulness. We try to

(12:07):
set up divisions where one side can hate the other.
Then you've captured them. So this is one of my
favorite cartoons of shall I say a billionaire is sitting
there talking to the workers about the foreigners and saying,
be careful, mate, that foreigner he wants your cookie. Of course,

(12:29):
in front of the billionaire you have dozens of cookies.
This is a very good image of current leadership values
in America, and this is how the leaders more or
less stay in charge by making you hate those without
a cookie. Next image. And of course, relative to this

(12:55):
issue of where does climate change come from?

Speaker 2 (13:02):
In essence, it comes from us.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
If you don't think it's serious, that means you are
totally out of touch. Now that, in essence, anyone that
calls it a hoax tries to do it very softly
or in a mumbling manner. They do not say it
loudly or clearly. But this cartoon is quite good to

(13:25):
give you a sense of from where climate change has
come and how much is still left. I guess you
can read the cartoon humans. Yep, we're quite something. Next image. Okay,

(13:49):
let's take a break here for a fifteen minute segment,
and then we'll be back in a couple of minutes.

Speaker 4 (14:02):
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(14:48):
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(15:10):
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(15:33):
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the help of coaches, mentors, and others. He shares guidance
that helps readers reflect on what motivates them. We discover
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(15:56):
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and tune in radio.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Now.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
This is part of an image I've shown you before,
and this gives you a sense of how leadership tends
to be different in different cultures. And these were the
main leaders of China back in two thousand and seven,
which I showed you this picture. There are five major leaders.

(16:37):
Head of the Communist Party, head of the military, head
of government operations. The elderly man on my left was
the secretary of Chairman Mao prior to his death and
so and the manth the gray suit in essence, is
the chair of the committee. The committee's called the Experts Council,

(17:01):
and they choose the leadership in Chinese culture, so the
heads of all major state owned companies and the head
of the government. So in essence, a couple of years
after this, they chose the new head of China. So anyway,
they had me come in give a lecture, do a debate,
meet with them over at lunch, and this was during

(17:23):
that process when of course it was being filmed. I
think it was on video sometime a bit later. But
I mentioned this because this particular lecture became somewhat famous
in other parts of China, and so it led to
someone paying attention to what I say that turned out

(17:45):
to be quite an important individual about a week ago.
So I'm going to make a connection between this and
something that was in your news that anyone who had
a technical bent was sent into shock a week ago,
and I don't think has crawled out since we'll get
back to that anyway. Next image, and this, of course,

(18:11):
at the end of our discussion, debate lecture, the chair
of the Experts Council put together this sign, this calligraphy banner,
which I now have hanging up in my on the
entry into my dining room. Is this banner. But in

(18:33):
essence he and they more or less concluded my point,
and my point was their new leader for the government
should be someone that believes in Laozu and likes the
wisdom of Laosu, not the knowledge of Confucius. So in essence,
Lao Zoo is more like our Socrates. Confucius is more

(18:59):
like Plato. I'm not so fond of Plato or Confucius anyway.
The essence of this is that we agree with David
ac that we should move towards Laozu.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
And as I've.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
Told you before two or three times, Lao Zuo's the
one that made this statement that if things go well,
you did it, or they did it. I did not
do it. Things go badly, I did it, It's my responsibility.
If it's good, you did it. That's the kind of
leader that works best in all cultural situations, even in

(19:33):
the military.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Let's go on.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
So, in essence, that lecture came to be somewhat noteworthy
in China in various places, and this lecture continued into Shinhwa,
their southern campus. They have two campuses, one Beijing, one
in the south not far from Hong Kong. And so
I was lecturing and Beijing as well as in the

(20:03):
southern as well as across the street and a place
goed a Zijian University. She was number one in China,
the other is number three. And within these points, I
made these points the way back in two thousand and seven. Wow,

(20:25):
long time ago.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Next image.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Okay, Now, the reason I was invited to the south
to give a lecture, in fact the series, was to
visit the southern campus of Shinhwa and then also to
give a lecture across the street or nearby at Seijiang campus,

(20:51):
the number three university, and of course did so.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
Next image.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
Now, the important thing about those lectures was that somebody
was in the audience as a student in one or
two of those lectures, and in essence, as a few
do captured a bit of my points what I was

(21:22):
trying to say, particularly what I was trying to say
about leadership, and if you want to be a leader,
particularly if you think we're in a mess or going
deeply into a mess, and you would like to help friends, family, others, humans, life,
then you need to do something to help us avoid
the mess or escape from the mess. And so in

(21:45):
these terms I talked about the importance of business as
unusual climate change is coming from entropy and open source
approaches to ensure you are allowed negotiated order as opposed to
legal order. So way back then, I was talking about
the same crap I've talked about during the last year

(22:07):
with you, and so in essence, one of the listeners
and one of the lectures was a person that came
to be quite famous a week or two ago in
the world of international artificial intelligence. And indeed, this is
the person that found a deep seek, this thirty nine

(22:28):
year old individual or shall we say, entrepreneur, who founded
approach to artificial intelligence that blew away the Western competition,
particularly American. If you keep in mind, the three major
American companies had put together about one billion dollars in

(22:48):
research funds in order to develop the cutting edge of
artificial intelligence and try and make it much better. And
so they had them you were beginning to do the research.
Interesting to note, one of my daughters, who works for
Apple in artificial intelligence, was indeed beginning on this process

(23:14):
of finding a better way for AI for the future. Anyway,
this particular person released his approach to AI, and it
blew away everybody and they have not landed since. And
one of the most important aspects of it is that
it was based on open source approaches, meaning non secretive,

(23:39):
meaning anymitt you can go in and see anything and
copy anything, on the hopes that as they're copying things,
using things, messing with things, they will also improve things.
And therefore you have societal improvement of the software. You
don't have it locked up as a deep secret that
everyone must pay to use it, not to see what's

(24:02):
in it, but to use it anyway. Leang supposedly was
part of one of the lectures that I gave because
he commented on three comments that David Hawk had made
which he found interesting way back when, and they more
or less are listed here back to negotiated order. In addition,

(24:25):
he wanted a software package not only would be open source,
but would use much less energy. I think I've mentioned
before that the new artificial intelligence complex built in Arizona
I talked about last time. This is what in essence

(24:46):
works on the AI for Apple that uses the same
power as sixty thousand homes. Think of that one building
uses the power of sixty homes in order to operate AI.
In the case of deep Seek, not only did it

(25:08):
cost only six percent to develop, meaning six million versus
a I'm sorry, six billion versus a trillion to develop it,
but in essence it uses very very little energy, in
part because the designer believes in entropy and believes we
have to find ways to get more out of less

(25:31):
energy less material. So indeed, he had commented on David
Hawk's lecture during one of the interviews in a Chinese newspaper. Next,
I think we have a couple more, shall we say

(26:15):
a note. During the last year, the title of that
book was, as I mentioned before, humans are fucked. And
somehow during the year since that phrase has become very
important for many humans to talk about many things that
have happened during the last year, not just in terms

(26:36):
of airplane crashes, but also in terms of what's going
on with the government, what's going on in the US,
what's going on with us former leadership, in the world,
what is happening, So it's not just climate changes rolling in.
Many people still aren't quite aware of what that's going
to mean for them, But indeed what that means is

(26:57):
far far more devastating than any of the they are
worried about and think that humans are fucked relative too.
But anyway, a video was made by a group of
people and put up in Times Square on humans are
fucked whereas a beautiful video. It concentrated on people walking

(27:19):
and on their feet, and then it had that book
hanging in the air, and so the book was hanging
over Times Square where humans were in essence walking away,
walking away from climate change, walking away from concern, walking
away from change. Fantastic video. I really really liked it. Anyway,

(27:43):
After a few minutes up, it was asked, told to
be taken down. It was told to disappear. And I
think I mentioned before. If you see the book, you'll
notice a little lady with a finger to the cameraman
because the cameraman was an elderly man, and she was

(28:05):
quite unhappy about elderly people having destroyed her planet. So essence,
she gave them the finger. In addition, that finger had
bad nail polish, so they took down the video. I
asked why they sent a message saying that it's because
of the finger. We would not tolerate that finger. So

(28:29):
I sent them a message and said, to those in charge,
very sorry about the finger. I recognized it was very
bad nail polish on the little girl. If I could
do something, I'll have her do a much better job
and we'll redo it and we'll have really classy nail polish.
Would that be fine? I got back an email saying

(28:53):
that you're simply stupid. You have no idea what we
just said. It has nothing to do with nail polish.
But they didn't say what it had to do it.
So then I wrote them back a longer letter saying
I really apologize. Obviously it had to do with the
sex of the person with the finger in the air.

(29:14):
If it had been a little boy, you would have
loved it. That means a little boy was being aggressive
for aggressive times. In essence, he was trained to be masculine.
So the little boy was ready to take charge and
we should be proud of him. Whereas girls don't do that.
Girls have no right to stick their finger up. That

(29:36):
is a no no. Anyway, I got no response. The
organization putting up the video made a new video which
is the one that you saw before, which was up
for two days, so once an hour the video would
show in Times Square and it was okay. It had
more to do with David Hawk and his foundation. The

(29:58):
Eternal Feminine or the Eternalfeminine dot org is the website
for it, so somehow they felt that was okay, and
that also supported the notion that increasingly leaders in this
world need to be of the feminine. They don't need
to be females, but they certainly need to have feminine values,

(30:20):
meaning values to clean up. Because men visa vi the
masculine had created industrialization which made the planet exceptionally dirty,
bad and sources of death and destruction for life, including
human life and the not too distant future. So in essence,
what men had created me to be cleaned up, and

(30:42):
the feminine was much more shall we say, welcome and
able to clean things up. And I'm talking about feminine
values versus masculine values, not men versus women, because we
all know there are some women more masculine than men,

(31:02):
and there's some men more feminine than women, but of
course Donald Trump will keep them out of sports. Right
as of today or yesterday or something. You know, we
got to clean things up and keep masculine in charge. Leading.
Can't be confused? Is that the last image? Since they

(31:37):
took it down because of the finger I pretended it
was the nail polish. Obviously it wasn't. But this really
upset a lot. But it's worth noting now this book
is very famous because it was ordered to be taken down.
So if you want something to be famous, either be
put in jail or be told you can't do that.

(31:58):
The seventy five set of people that we're just questioning
things jump on board and say, wow, let's see that.
So right now, that book happens to be quite popular
in many many camps, won a number of prizes, etc. Etc. Okay,
next week we will try to go back to the

(32:20):
book that was written relative to this series of shows,
and I'll talk a bit more about it. Two days
ago I sent the final manuscript with supposedly errs corrected
back to the printer. Within a couple of weeks it
should be printed just now I'm looking for a cover
for it. We're not sure what to do. Somebody did

(32:46):
a mock up cover of me driving a Iowa combine
harvesting corn with fire and climate change messes on the edge.
Probably that is not the right I enjoy it, but
I've been told by feel that people read the book

(33:07):
that no, no, no, that's too simple minded. You've got
to do something different. So we're looking for a new cover,
and hopefully i'll give you a sense next week of
what that is. Then that book will shortly be out.
It's four hundred and seven pages. Sorry, a bit too long,
but it sure has a lot of crap in it.
Have a good week, have a good weekend, See you

(33:28):
next week.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
This has been what to do when it becomes too late,
with host David Hawk. Recent studies conclude that about eighty
five percent are concerned with their being a human future.
They begin to sense that short term gains come at
a longer term price. Many are foregoing the idea of

(33:55):
immortality via having children. Tune in each week as David
talks about these and other important global issues Wednesdays.

Speaker 4 (34:05):
Six p m.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
On the Bold Brave TV Network.