What to do When It's too Late - 04/09/25

Only on BBTV!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:21):
What to do when it becomes too late for humans
to correct their behavior? Author researcher, professor, and climate change
expert David Hawk says such a question implies a need
for change, and herein an argument is presented that humans
believe in their own immortality, but a price is paid

(00:42):
for support of that belief. Humans protect themselves from change
via culture, and it's implied changelessness. As summers bring intolerable
heat that increases and storms that eliminate insurance companies began
to think of change. Please welcome the host of what

(01:05):
to do when it becomes too late?

Speaker 2 (01:08):
David Hawk, Hello, my friends, Very nice to see you again.
I'm quite sorry that I wasn't here last week. At

(01:32):
about this time, I was just getting out of my
operation where they were looking for my gallbladder, and then
they found it and removed it. Maybe the most important
thing about all that was that afterwards I explained to
the doctor that now I have no pain, that for

(01:55):
two years I had pain from the gallbladder and now
it's absolutely gone, and he was happy. Then unfortunately went
on and said that I'm so pleased with this, I
may even become an optimist now that somehow, I don't
feel pessimistic without the pain, so I may have trouble

(02:18):
dealing with my subject area of climate change. Anyway, he
didn't think I was funny, and he moved on. Can
we start with the first PowerPoint? Okay, if you recall,
I promised to begin to take you into the book

(02:43):
that's been written about this TV series and began to
at least give you an outline as well as an
overview of the contents of that book. So very sorry. Anyway,
this is the title. This is what we are dealing

(03:06):
with on the book. This is pretty close to the
final cover. At least the image is right. Eventually the
words will be on top of that image. Presently the
contents are out with the publisher, and so the publisher
is trying to print this four hundred page document. And

(03:30):
I'm eagerly awaiting the time when I can touch and
hold and carry around this book. Anyway, As you can see,
our title is so sorry. The climate is changing, ken humans,
and if you will, most humans are. I'm afraid in

(03:56):
Plato's cave, where in essence be an insight. These cars
that are parked on the interstate in a traffic jam
in essence is another version of Plato's cave. In essence,
do they notice They seem not to notice that the
climate is changing in part because of what they're doing

(04:17):
at this point in time. So, in essence, it seems
like most of my fellow humans are occupying Plato's cave.
If you recall and you want to go a little
deeper into that comment, then you might go look up
the allegory of the cave by Plato, where in senc
talks about people being trapped in the darkness and only

(04:41):
being able to see two dimensions. Two dimensions is something
like the cell phone device that you're holding, or the
TV that you are about to watch or watching. So,
in essence, think about that as you think about this
cover and this image. Can we go on to next ambage? Now,

(05:06):
in essence, you have seen parts of this before, and
in essence, I believe and in fact know that covers
are terribly important. The cover should give you a good
sense of how to access the content. Should not be
different than the content, should not be something like a

(05:29):
marketing mirage that attracts people and they're disappointed. So, in essence,
this previous book of mine has gained a great deal
of attention and a great deal of shall we say,
even compliments, particularly outside the US. So this is at
one of the bookstores, I think Barnes and Noble, where

(05:51):
it's available. And so just as this cover was quite stunning,
quite startling, many publishers wouldn't touch it, but eventually one did,
and then others wanted it, and then it turned into
someone of a fight over who got to print it.

(06:12):
So quite a number really want to print it. And
since it was printed almost a year and a half ago,
I've been interviewed by ten different magazines in part about
this book, and as I mentioned before, those are magazines
like Time Magazine, Fortune Magazine, etc.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
Etc.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
But there's a list of ten where I've appeared in
a one pager during this time. And somehow other I
got a copy of the New York's Top New York
Times ten most Interesting books of the year, and they
even had this book listed as one of the ten
most interesting. So somehow that cover is interesting. Okay, let's

(07:05):
go on to the next PowerPoint if you will. Well,
I'm sorry, sorry, sorry. Now, an early version of a
picture for the cover was something like this. The publishers
people thought this was an appropriate image. So, in essence,

(07:28):
this has very much to do with climate change and
very much to do with the results of climate change,
and this indeed is a forest fire that goes on
and on and on and on. My concern was it
didn't deal with the second part ken humans change, and

(07:50):
so in essence, yeah, in essence, it didn't say enough
about the context. It only dealt with the issue of
climate change and not what can humans do about it?
So we moved on from this cover to the one
you saw initially, and yeah, maybe we go on to

(08:16):
the next PowerPoint now in essence, sorry, in essence, some

(08:38):
of you have set me notes from two or three
times ago when I actually mentioned this idea of emory
interests being very important to my work in the area
of climate change, and emory interests are to now deceased
old friends of mine. Eric Trice was a fantastic instructor

(09:02):
of mine. In fact, one of my thesis advisors for
my PhD, and I depended very much on him. If
you want to look up Erctrist, you'll find that he's
quite renowned in terms of having started the Tavastock Institute
in the late forties in London after World War two

(09:24):
in terms of how to help England recover from World
War two, and particularly how to bring back this very
limited resource of energy needed to crank up everything, restart everything,
and let humans go back to a life that's worthwhile

(09:44):
as opposed to what happened in World War two. And
so in the Tavistock Institute they did fantastic things such
as invent the idea sociotechnical systems, and also they came
up with ideas on how to not screw around with
hierarchy but in essence achieve a great deal of the

(10:05):
resources needed in society, and such as energy. I won't
go any deeper than that, but they came up with
the autonomous work group, which was the notion of a
work group without a leader, that would be individually responsible
for doing things and not have a leader trying to

(10:27):
take credit that knew very little about what they were doing.
If you read more of Eric Tris's work you'll see
much more of that. So in essence, they use the
idea of three thousand years ago with human activity, the
hunting party, where the leader of the group depended on
what needed to be done. Of course, it's obvious not

(10:50):
the new version of a leader, which often doesn't know
what's being done in any sector. So anyway, if you
take a look at em or interest, there is a
very important article put together by them which you could
look up if you go online, look up M Ray

(11:11):
Interests nineteen sixty five. In essence you'll find an article
the causal texture of Organizational environments, and that is in
Human Relations Journal, well worth looking at. But in essence
they brought the notion of environment as context into the

(11:33):
better understanding of humans, why they go to war, how
they go to war, how they recover from war, how
they develop business, how they develop successful business the terribly
important sector of the environment. And so for them they
invented four different kinds of environment. Type A placid random

(11:56):
which in essence most of the pieces are autonomous, moves
on to a more complex environment called placid clustered. This
is where the randomness begins to be organized. Then that
develops into what they called disturbed reactive, which is where
some of the parts begin to be dangerous. And in essence,

(12:19):
the organization of that environment can begin to be dangerous,
such as a rain in a hail storm coming through
it certainly can be reactive to the humans on the
ground and certainly can disturb many things. And then last
but not least, they ended with the notion of turbulence.

(12:41):
So they became very famous for the idea of turbulence
in social affairs. So they brought turbulent as an environmental
type in to human activities, and a turbulent environment something
like tornado like. As Eric Trist explained to me, he

(13:02):
was taking a flight back to London back in the
sixties and on that flight there was speaker going on
in the pilots saying, please make sure your seat belts
are tightly fastened, be in your seats, because we are
going to experience turbulence. And thereafter one person that didn't

(13:23):
have the seat belt fastened ended up at the ceiling
and in fact was injured. And Chris went aha fantastic
term to talk about what kind of environment humans may
find themselves in the future. They went on to argue
then that the environment is somewhat like a stage set,

(13:45):
and humans have this play that's unfolding and going through
and in essence, humans are the actors in the play,
and the environment is very important for the success of
that play. But the environment is a factor anyway, they
talked about visit the how these environments were emerging and

(14:07):
taking on a life of their own. They began to
be more important than the actors. In fact, the environment
was the actor. So when I first met them in
the early seventies and was working with them in the seventies,
I was really taken by this notion of the environment
becoming the actor for humans on the planet Earth. And

(14:31):
so then I went on and recommended to them they
had a fifth type environment called vortex, which for me
was something like a black hole well beyond a little
tornado going across the landscape. Tris liked it, Emory did not,
so it was never included. But this is where my
major concern for the idea of climate change and how

(14:55):
we needed to worry about dealing with the environment changing
the future more and more and more first emerged. So
em or interests were terribly important. Next image. And then,
as I've also mentioned before, based on an expression that

(15:20):
I used in Vietnam to get promoted as opposed to
put in jail for talking back to a captain, I've
been looking for a similar statement about what we've been
looking at in these series of TV shows, and so
In essence, this is an attempt. If you have an

(15:40):
idea of how to improve this, how to make it shorter, longer,
somehow more on the spot, please send me a note,
please let me know. But for now I've reached the
level of saying we the unconscious, and I think most
humans are unconscious, attracted to the nowhere and an essence

(16:04):
that goes back to the people on the highway as
the parking lot, which I call nowhere. We destroy everything
via negative entropy, and negative entropy represents nothingness because negative
entropy cannot exist. And as I mentioned, negative entropy is
that we can go backwards against the cosmos, against the universe,

(16:29):
against everything tending towards disintegration. With time, the most humans
can do is make the disintegration happen more rapidly and
more completely. And in essence, we humans avoid what I
call the entropic truth, which is that law of the
universe which is basic to almost everything that takes place

(16:53):
in the universe, and certainly certainly is very important to
climate change our planet. So take a look at this expression,
see what you think anyway based on this. As such,
mother danger, Mother Nature has indicted human beings for what

(17:13):
they've done to the planet, in other words, for being human.
So she does not appreciate human beings being human. Let
me know what you think. Now we go on to
the next image. This I think I've shown you before,

(17:34):
maybe not in this view, but in essence, I'm well
known in these magazine articles, TV interviews, etc.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
Etc.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
This is the cover of a book. I think it's
a book published by Who's Who in America, maybe last
year's version. I'm not quite sure what the date is. Anyway,
the people interviewing me came up with that expression at
the bottom, which actually isn't me. I don't think I
said that, but somehow they left the interview with that

(18:09):
as a very important conclusion relative to my discussion of humans,
climate change, business as usual, the deterioration happening from business
as usual. So they liked very much that prose they
put together. When things are deadly serious, a touch of humor,

(18:30):
a touch of humor is quite important. So in essence, yes,
I think I do believe that. I'm not sure I
said that to them, but they felt I said it,
so why not. So keep in mind the expression that
humor is quite important. The more important, the more deadly

(18:52):
serious things become, so in climate change we must find
humor as we're discussing it. Also as we discuss the
current foibles of our current leadership in America, we also
need a sense of humor as we talk about, describe,
and try to make sense of what that person is

(19:13):
doing based on the character he brought into leadership. Next image,
and of course very important to me, important to things
that we have talked about repeatedly, at least every three

(19:35):
or four shows. I've taken you back to this farm
I'm on in Iowa, the one I left New York
and returned to, the one I stopped traveling to other
countries in order to be on and work on. So
this is another image of part of my farm in Iowa.
But in essence I find this important because there's a

(19:58):
song of Johnny Cash that I quite like, and an
expression in there is that after all of that meaning
his life, I now own this pile of dirt. So
it's the Johnny Cash song about being left with a
pile of dirt after this thing called life. So after life,

(20:20):
this is a David Hawk's pile of dirt, or at
least a little four to eight section of this pile
of dirt very important. It reminds us of the importance
of humility as well as humor when things get tough.

(20:40):
Next image, should we have a break and a commercial?

Speaker 3 (20:54):
What if there were a super tiny device that could
diagnose the brain and is smaller than a single human hair?
What if you could see inside the brain to help
an epilepsy patient during surgery, or to help the fight
against Parkinson's disease. Doctor Patricia Brodrick is proud to announce
the Broaderick Probe, a biomedical and electronic breakthrough imagine a

(21:19):
probe to help with the understanding and potential cure of
brain related diseases. To learn more, listen live to the
Easy Sense Radio Show with host Doctor Brodrick Wednesday's seven
pm Eastern on the Bold Brave Media Network and tune
in radio. And to help support the Broaderick Foundation, please

(21:39):
go to easysense dot com and learn how with your
help we can fight these horrific brain disorders. That's easysense
dot com to learn more and help support the Broderick Foundation. Author,
radio show host and coach, John M. Hawkins reveals strategies

(22:02):
to help gain perspective, build confidence, find clarity, achieve goals.
John M. Hawkins' new book Coached to Greatness Unlock Your
Full Potential with Limitless Growth, published by I Universe, Hawkins
reveals strategies to help readers accomplish more. He believes the
book can coach them to greatness. Hawkins says that the

(22:24):
best athletes get to the top of their sport with
the help of coaches, mentors, and others. He shares guidance
that helps readers reflect on what motivates them. We discover
and assess their core values, philosophies, and competencies, find settings
that allow them to be the most productive, and track
their progress towards accomplishing goals. Listen to John hawkins My

(22:47):
Strategy Saturdays one pm Eastern on the VBM Global Network
and tune in radio. Did you know that your beliefs
create your entire re act But it's the subconscious beliefs
that do most of the creating belief Shifter and life
coach Charaz can help you identify those limiting beliefs and

(23:09):
eliminate them, often in a single session.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Like it was almost instant, Like I had relief right away.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
Creating better health relationships, careers and finances. Let Sharaz help
you step out of safety and into awareness.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Definitely, something's happening.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
It's like a flow inside. Yeah, it's good.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
Whether in person or online. Sharaz provides personal coaching belief shifting.
Visit Charaz at Energeticmagic dot com or call four one
six five to nine seven four two nine Energetic Magic
on the BBM Global Network Tuesdays at seven pm Eastern.
Find your greater happiness, Be well, be aware, be magical.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Okay, now shall we say we get into subject matter
or content and so now which I'll continue with next time.
But now we begin to go into the outline of
the headings in the book. And there are twelve sections
in the book with five to ten sub sections under

(24:37):
each one. I won't worry about the sub sections here,
but in essence, we're going to spend a little bit
of time before we close before long with the main headings,
or at least start with the first ones from the book. So,
in essence, the first part of the book and the
one that you have helped with, the one that we

(24:57):
have been presenting for the last I don't know, thirteen
fourteen months. The first one is the economic and Technological
those are two areas, two domains, two very important subject
heads for humans, and most people work in and around

(25:17):
those two headings. But an essence, the way in which
we have defined them, created them, massaged them, and now
manage those two has ended up being versus life. But
an essence, much of economics is against life, and much
of technology is against life. You might think, does it

(25:38):
have to be that way? Possibly not, But somehow the
models that we've chosen bring us that way. If you
ever want to spend the time, look up a book
by Nicholas georgesci Rosion called The Entropy Law and the
Economic Process. It's published by Harvard Press in nineteen seventy one.

(26:03):
It is a classic book on another approach to economics,
and he, in essence, was greatly shamed for having written
that book and include the idea of entropy. Since then,
we have come to believe that he may have the
only approach to economics that will matter by twenty fifty.
So do look him up. He was a friend of mine,

(26:26):
now deceased, but I liked him very much. It stayed
in my home, it had helped me with conferences. He
was great. Nicholas Jersus erosion on how the two major
subject areas we use, we count on we get paid
for working on economic and technical versus the life that

(26:47):
we live. Second is a description of the ominous, and
most things are life are not ominous. But in essence,
climate change is a very ominous phenomena. In part that's
why we avoid talking about it. And as I may
have told you, or as is in the state of Aiable,

(27:09):
the state legislature has now made it wrong for public
school teachers to ever mention in climate change. Climate change
is not to be introduced into the public classroom. Does
that mean it's too ominous or confusing or what? Or
is it too anti the economics that they depend upon

(27:31):
for finding power in politics? Think about that. And then
the third part, which again has about five or seven subcategories,
is the idea of change. And I go into some
depth unchange, and I go into the issue of damned
if we do, and double damned if we don't. So

(27:53):
in essence, we don't win much by doing, but we
really really lose by not doing. In other words, change
is crucial, crucial in life, crucial for continuance. And if
you need an example of change, take a look at entropy.
If you need an example of changelessness, as humans tend

(28:13):
to prefer, look at negative entropy or anti change. Let's
go to the next overhead, if you will, And here
we have three more categories. There we have one called
climate change, a tragedy foretold. What does this mean? This

(28:37):
means that in eighteen fifty six, another version of Joan
of Arc, this young lady that made the presentation to
the American Association for Advancement of Science at the eighteen
fifty six meeting, she foretold climate change as coming if

(28:58):
we didn't learn how to not use so much coal
in order to produce energy. That she talked about carbon
dioxide filling in essence, the atmosphere above us and heating
the planet, and eventually that would make the planet intolerable.
So she told us that in eighteen fifty six, she

(29:22):
was not allowed to read her paper, so they got
the man sitting next to her to read it because
she was a woman, and women don't read science papers,
and as you know, women aren't scientists, so he read it.
Most interesting was he disagreed with it. So to have
someone read your paper that disagrees with it, it's really interesting. Anyway,

(29:43):
three years later another man quoted from her paper without
giving her name no credit, and then thirty some years
later a Swedish man became quite famous talking about climate
change by again quoting from her work and ever mentioning
her name. She indeed was a Joan of Arc, and

(30:04):
indeed was in another way burned at the stake when
she was nineteen, even though she was a bit older
than that by then. As you can tell, I like
her very much, just as I liked Joan of Arc
very very much. Then we move on to a category
called research, and research I rather enjoy because I've always

(30:27):
defined research as to search again, meaning research ari search
means to search again, but then more important to see
for the first time. So when you search again you
begin to see. So research, for me is terribly important,
and you might take it quite seriously and dig a

(30:47):
little bit into what it means, not just on whether
your spouse is being unfaithful or your boss is going
to fire you. Of course, those topics are fun, humorous limited.
I mean research having more to do with searching what
is life, where does it come from, what happens to it?
And of course, last but not least, in that section,

(31:10):
we move beyond the analytical, we move beyond the hierarchical,
and we move beyond the managerial. So if you really
want to understand climate change and the processes behind it,
you really need to move beyond the normal terms that
we use in much of science, much of business, much

(31:33):
of management, much of government. Analytic, hierarchy, managerial. We have
to find better terms in those three. And then I
argue in the book on moving to the systemic in essence,
concentrate on connections between parts, not parts, because analysis concentrates

(31:54):
on parts as it makes more parts. Systems concentrates on
the connects between those parts as more parts are made
by others. So the systemic approach is terribly important for me,
and I think you won't understand climate change without understanding
the systemic approach. And of course, forget the hierarchical. In nature,

(32:19):
there is no hierarchy. Why do humans need it? Well,
those that want to be in charge and on a
power trip, not to mention are current president. But those
that need to be on a power trip love hierarchy
because they're on top of it. Those that invent a
religion inventory religion based on hierarchy. So of course there's

(32:39):
the God at the center, but just below that is
the man in charge. Below that are the men that
are loyal to the man in charge, and on down
until you get to the peasants at the lowest level.
It's the same in most companies. Move beyond the hierarchical,
it gets in the way. Move beyond leadership that wants

(33:00):
to be hierarchical. You don't need it, you can't tolerate.
Then of course we get to the managerial. The biggest
problem with managerial, as I mentioned before, are the first
three letters, and that was designed about four hundred BC
by the Greeks. They put man as the first three letters.

(33:22):
So in essence, I've often used femmiagement to put the
woman in charge or the feminine values in charge. It
doesn't sell well. People prefer the man in charge. We'll
see towards twenty thirty, twenty fifty we may be ready

(33:43):
to move beyond managerial. Okay, and the next image please,
and here we have this concept we've talked about in
depth of changelessness. In other words, in opposition to life
is defined as changed. Life is defined along with entropy,

(34:05):
has change and entropy is the change process to life,
So you must understand change. You must appreciate change to
understand much of anything. Although many people argue for changelessness,
and many humans seem to prefer changelessness, or if not
that going backwards to the good old days, like our

(34:26):
current president wants to do whatever those good old days were.
I think they were a hell of a mess. But
nonetheless he wants to go back there and take you
with him. Then, of course we are this very important
concept called heresy, and heresy has to do with asking questions,
not parading around with answers. So in essence, questions become

(34:49):
key answers are less important, and indeed questions will change
your answers. And I've argued the difference between education and
learning as education deals with answers. Learning deals with questions.
And when I run a class, I make that distinction

(35:10):
the first day and seldom go to answers. The rest
of the semester is invested in questions. How to improve
your questions, how to get over bad answers or the
answers that you're told to memorize and repeat and repeat
and repeat. And heresy is key to getting over answers

(35:32):
and into questions. I've been told that I could never
be a heretic because a heretic must be a member
of a church, and since I don't belong to any group,
I can't be a heretic of that group. That's a
pity they shut me out. These are mostly my friends
at the Stockholm School of Economics. Then, of course, last,

(35:54):
but not least, we look for non hierarchical leadership. If
you want to know more about that, look up more
on the ancient Hunting Party. It was a non hierarchical
social organization that was terribly successful. Okay, and the last
little piece, can we go on to it and we'll

(36:17):
be done with the outline? And these I think speak
for themselves. We have tyranny of the technological and the
socio technical has continued that tyranny, as opposed to emphasizing
social negative entropy and essence is key to the Faustian bargain.

(36:38):
You're not sure that is, look up the Faustian bargain.
I have a book on it, which is short term gain,
long term pain, which is the reverse of Donald Trump's
expression of short term pain long term gain, which in
essences I think is silly expression and practice. Nature never

(37:00):
appreciate that. And then, last, but not least, understanding dimensionality.
The book I'm now writing is on dimensions, and which
of the dimensions zero through five are you standing in?
And on? Because once I know the dimension you're standing on,
I pretty well know what you're going to say and

(37:20):
what you're going to do, And I can demonstrate much
about Donald Trump visit the the dimension that he stands in,
sits in, or lays down in. Later I'll mention what
that dimension is, but for now, dimensionality is terribly important.
And the new book I'm now writing has to do

(37:41):
with dimensions. Okay, last, but not least, let's go to
that last PowerPoint. Oh have I lost it? Sorry? Anyway,

(38:02):
the most important part of that book on humans and
change is in essence, can we can humans change? And
next time I will show you that PowerPoint which has
this wonderful picture of an elderly couple on a motorcycle, smiling,

(38:24):
zooming down the road as something that seems not to change.
Then next to that is a picture of our leadership
in Washington, d C. Sitting asleep at his desk. I
will dig out that picture for next time. Please if
you have comments, criticism, suggestions. Please do send me some notice.

(38:49):
You can send them to this site. It's quite fine.
I do look here for comments, love, criticism, Be careful
of complaces. I'm not sure what to do with compliments.
I've never had to experience something of them. Thank you
very much. Sorry miss last week. Operation goes well. I

(39:12):
have four four inch cuts in my stomach and then
I had a hole where my belly button supposed to be.
I'm not sure why that happened, but that's the most
ugly of the dammage on the belly. But inside fantastic,
no pain, absolutely no pain. Fantastic doctor, fantastic hospital in Fairfield, Iowa.

(39:37):
And I really really appreciate what they did by saving
me for a while. Thanks a lot, have a good weekend.
See you next week.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
This has been what to do when it becomes too
late with host David Hawk. Recent studies conclude that about
eighty five percent are concerned and with their being a
human future, They begin to sense that short term gains
come at a longer term price. Many are foregoing the
idea of immortality via having children. Tune in each week

(40:15):
as David talks about these and other important global issues.
Wednesdays six pm on the Bold Brave TV network.