What to do When It's too Late - 04/23/25

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:19):
What to do when it becomes too late for humans
to correct their behavior? Author researcher, professor, and climate change
expert David Hawk says such a question implies a need
for change, and herein an argument is presented that humans
believe in their own immortality, but a price is paid

(00:40):
for support of that belief. Humans protect themselves from change
via culture and its implied changelessness. As summers bring intolerable
heat that increases and storms that eliminate insurance companies, humans
began to think of change. Please welcome the host of

(01:02):
What to do when it becomes too late? David Hawk.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Good afternoon, friends, countrymen, enemies, whoever happens to be staring
at this just now. Very nice to see you. My
voice is going to be a little bit difficult tonight.
On Monday, I had a couple of procedures. One went

(01:37):
into my mouth and back from the back of the
mouth up into the nose and removed a funny growth
in the nose, and then took a funny growth on
my chest to see if the two had any relationships
with cancer, either good ones or bad ones, or had
been picked up in a bar with a can relationship. Okay,

(02:02):
not funny anyway, My voice is a little tough until
that hole in the back fills in better. What are
we going to talk about tonight? We're going to continue
with what we were dealing with last Wednesday night, and
we're also going to remind ourselves of the name of
the show having to do with the how to deal

(02:26):
with it's too late, And keep in mind that we
have this concept of too early and too late. If
you're not sure what that means, go back to this
nineteen seventy nine book of mine that was republished in
twenty nineteen called too Early, Too Late, Now What? And

(02:47):
that was a book I wrote at University of Pennsylvania
seventy nine which whatever became a dissertation that was disapproved
by the dean but welcome by the president as well
as the President Princeton. So because of the power of
those two had made it through and the dean was

(03:08):
greatly diminished and never forgot my name. Anyway, we're going
to try and attack that again. And this book that
I've written during this series of shows having to do
with what we talked about last time of the climate
is changing ken humans and so the too early, too

(03:32):
late is very much part of that part of that comment,
and it's really quite important. And this book should be
out about a month. I hope it's still delayed at
the printer. The publishing company has no trouble. They've been
done with it for a few weeks, but the printer

(03:54):
is still looking at it and deciding how to deal
with that cover, how to deal with the almost four
hundred pages of content. It's much more than they thought
it would be, so we'll deal with it. In addition
to is it too early or too late? Obviously, I'm

(04:14):
beginning to think it's too late. And I like this
notion of too late because I found it as a
good way to deal with leadership that within my careers,
I guess there's been multiple tracks. I have found that
when leadership detects it's too late, they tend to go

(04:36):
underground or to another country, or they disappear, or they
go out of sight and try to hide very well
because it's too late, and all hell is thought to
come in on the organization they were leading. And it
tends to be the same with climate change. I believe
that leadership, I think will go into hiding as more

(04:58):
of climate change quinces appear. And I think you'll see
more and more of that. So, as I mentioned before,
there's a brief amount of time when it appears really
too late, and they go into hiding that the rest
of us, meaning the common people that do the work, suffer,

(05:20):
have the anxiety. Live tough lives begin to take over
and sometimes do very very well. The danger is if
they do very well, lousy leadership crawls out of their
hole and comes back again. So be a little careful
if that happens. But let's hope something like that might happen.

(05:41):
So what should we do if it's too late. Well,
we could keep on sleeping, watching our favorite TV news entertainment,
or of course news is almost like entertainment anymore. Or
we could be all stressed out sort of go after
our favorite enemies or whatever. I have a few other

(06:06):
suggestions to make as opposed to resting or stressing, I
would recommend that you somehow find a way to rethink
and get beyond what I call opposites. Others call bipolar thinking,
and many now call it digital thinking. And that's this

(06:26):
funny world of zero one a B one two whatever,
where you have a bipolar distinction and you're only allowed
to choose AORB. You have two choices AORB you love
me or hate me. You vote for me or you
vote against me, on and on and on, and it's

(06:48):
all bipolar. And I would like you very much to
think about getting over that. And I would like you too,
at least tonight, keep track of this idea of both
plus more, meaning you go with A, you go with b,
then you go beyond and find them more, or you

(07:11):
go with the Democrats, or you go with the Republicans,
or you go with both and move on to more.
And the more is a much more interesting world, probably
much more honest, much more open, much more willing to
do the right thing at the right moment. And so

(07:35):
I'm going to talk a little bit from now on
more about this both plus more. A lot of people
are infatuated with that phrase of mine, but when I
go deeper with them, I find that they somehow don't
get the concept of more. So we'll get back to that.
But if you'd like to do a little bit of

(07:56):
homework on where this digititis, or this bipolar or this
opposition logic comes from, I suggest you go back and
pick up a book by Aristotle or about Aristotle. And
he was very very much into the logic of bipolar
or digital or whatever you want to call it. In fact,

(08:19):
that's why the computer science people rave about the intelligence
of Aristotle, and from the nineteen forties on most of
computer science, even from the thirties, emerged from those that
were fans of Aristotle. So Aristotle really liked the digititus

(08:41):
of yes or no, A or b zero or one
black or white? Ah. Racism has a chance now or
man woman ah? Picking on women has a chance. Finally,
so digititus has should we say, a basis for accessing

(09:02):
that which we shouldn't. In addition to it generally ending
up very dumb, it ends up with choices that really
aren't and shouldn't be and are pretty silly. But nonetheless,
humans are somehow wedded to that digititis of should I
be black? Should I be white? Should I like black?

(09:23):
So I like whites? Should I accept women? Should I
be mean to them? Should he become a woman? On
and on and on. And I'm simply calling for us
to forget that and go on to try and deal
with this extraordinary trauma approaching I was called climate change
and its consequences, So please keep that in mind. As

(09:45):
we're looking for what to do when it's too late.
My recommendation is move on to both move on to
three plus. Okay, the climate change book that we before
should be out soon. They promise that each week, and

(10:07):
I'm trying to be able to show it to each week,
and I hope when some of you actually look at it,
you'll see how we trust, how we traced many important
parts of this TV show. And I'm even trying to
get your name on the cover also, but the publisher
thinks that's too confusing, and whatever, we'll see. Let's go

(10:31):
to PowerPoint two now. The fact that it is too
late is pretty well seen, or at least it appears
with greater clarity every season, every month, every week, every
day almost And as of today, those living in the

(10:55):
southern part of New Jersey have just encountered climate change
consequences again with that horrendous fire that's taking over five
to ten thousand acres. I think it's thirty five percent contained,
but they're not sure if they can even keep that containment.

(11:17):
So as of this morning, this afternoon, New Jersey Southern
is in big trouble, just as New Jersey Northern was
last fall. Okay, Remember I talked about an expression that
would sort of continue in the theme that I had
started back in Vietnam of coming up with expressions that

(11:38):
somehow capture the moment. And based on that Vietnam expression
that I, instead of put in jail, was promoted two ranks,
or at least recommended for two ranks of promotion. So
something sort of in the same theme I presented last time.

(11:59):
A couple versions since that time, some of you have
set me this nice little snippet which is a redo
of what I tried to do, and I like what
you did much better, and hopefully those that sent it
are watching. So the new snippet would be the unwilling

(12:20):
live among the ungrateful, led by the unqualified, produce the unwanted,
become the unthoughtful. So in essence, we start out not
being part of the scheme, but we joined for some reason,
and the people live around us are not grateful for
what we're doing, and leadership is not grateful, and leadership

(12:44):
tends to be unqualified, particularly has seen in their comments
and their behavior. And while we work or do the
things we're supposed to do, we produce the unwanted, and
then we learned how to be on the unthoughtful, to survive,
and go on and on and on until, of course,

(13:04):
entropy gets us and we don't go on. Thank you
very much for you two that sent this restatement to me.
I like what you've done. Thanks again. Let's go on
to the next PowerPoint. This is another magazine article that

(13:27):
appeared during the last week or so. This is two
pages of a magazine they put out. I'm not sure
who Christopher is, but my regards to Christopher and the
books he writes. And that was on the left hand page.
I somehow was on the right hand page, which is
different than a previous article they published. In this case,

(13:49):
they combine the New York Medison Square Garden image of
me along with this sort of bio, the relative to
the book before this one that I published. And they
in fact sent me this copy today and they called
to see how I felt about it. I don't know,

(14:12):
how do you feel about it? I think it's fine.
It's interesting that I was not shown this before it
is published, Just with almost everything that's been published about
me since Christmas, I was not shown before. And it's
interesting that all these magazines and publications seem to have

(14:33):
gotten together when they published about me, and they agreed
that I don't care, so they shouldn't bother me. They
should just publish what they want and I will be
fine with it. Let's assume they were right. Let's go
on to the next image. And then, most recently, this

(14:56):
other magazine article came out. This was in the April
May Time Journal, and this is one devoted to women,
femininity and various issues surrounding women within the year. Because
of my foundation that I mentioned last time, eternalfeminine dot org.

(15:20):
Because of it, they decided to do a one page
article about my work on the feminine. And Okay, as
a man, of course, I'm not accepted, but at least
now they have sufficient pity on me that they want
to thank me for what I try to do relative

(15:40):
to the feminine, but in essence, relative to climate change.
I do believe the masculine created the basis for climate
change via what we call industrialization, and so the most
we can do is hope the feminine will help us
clean it up. So in that regard, for the last

(16:00):
ten to fifteen years, I've been arguing that the feminine
should take over leadership to help us make it through
climate change, help us survive. The masculine initiated it, started it,
and now maintain it. And so how to downplay masculine
leadership and turn to feminine One more time, I should

(16:24):
mention it's not male female, because there are many females
that are more masculine than most men I know, and
there are many men I know that are more feminine
than many women I know. So the masculine feminine is
not exactly male female. All well, that's sort of a
direction ahead and when you're looking for the two anyway,

(16:48):
Time magazine did a nice article and it's obviously a
very beautiful cover that she's quite beautiful, and that's the
one on the news stands now and will be next month,
next image please. And this is something else that came

(17:10):
out recently in a magazine this I think April maybe March,
having to do with some people making a point of
my work from nineteen seventy five to seventy seven Relatives
is studying climate change. I think the project was environmental

(17:35):
regulation Analytic Answers in search of synthetic problems. In essence,
back then I was making fun of the analytic approach
to science and calling for a more systemic approach which
dealt with relationships and not parts. Anyway, nineteen seventy seven,
I came out with the three volume research series that

(17:59):
came out of that study. That study included twenty companies
operated in six countries, and so the heads of the
company heads of the countries were involved and the heads
of the twenty companies were involved to try and better
understand if we could regulate environmental deterioration. And our conclusion

(18:20):
was that we were going to end up in climate
change if we didn't find a way out of environmental deterioration.
And this is more or less the chief of staff
in that White House at that time, Jenny Carter's White
House giving Carter President Carter a copy of volume one

(18:43):
of my research project, which talked about the catastrophic climate
change that was coming in our lifetime and certainly would
define children's lifetime. Theoretically, shouldn't have been smiling at this,
but he was. Maybe he was finding misspelled words or something,

(19:06):
who knows, But anyway, based on that, he had solar
collectors put on the White House to illustrate that he
was ready for a change, to begin to adopt to
slow down climate change. This is an image I hadn't
seen for a long time, but was recently reposted in

(19:28):
a magazine. I'm not sure why they did it. Maybe
it's for the purposes of our current president to look
at and see why he is so different from these
two and particularly this man. Okay, let's take a break
for a a set of advertisement and we'll be back.

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Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yes, we don't need to show the last damage. But
in essence, the famous person sending over the President's called
Frank Press, and Frank Press was showing him a copy
of one of the volume three of my three volume research.
In addition, that three volumes was presented to OECD in

(25:31):
Paris a month or two before that, so internationally the
three volumes became rather famous, and finally in the US
the President was given the three copies to look through.
That was the same work that was republished in twenty
nineteen as too early, too late, now what? And the

(25:53):
last Vice president had it put in the Library of
Congress on display where it still is. Okay, next slide,
if you will number six, Yes, So what are we
going to do with all that? Remember last time I
talked about the importance of context, and without context, there's
no meaning, and I firmly believe that, and many other

(26:16):
great scientists, authors, musicians, concur and so in asce we
have this little question. At least the cows at least.
Look this is looking at one of my windows at
the pasture across the pond. The cow seem to like
context as they're laying on it. But people tend not
to people like parts. They like to deal with small

(26:40):
parts and points and digititis and A and b. It's
very hard to get them into context. That's an important
subject to look at on next slide. And to remind
you a little more of the context. Some of you

(27:01):
sent me questions relative to something or who the hell
am I? Where did I come from? Why do I
behave the way I do? Why do I talk about
the things I do? And this is just to remind
them that my library of the last fifty sixty years

(27:23):
has been quite important to me, and as I mentioned,
the five thousand books in my library are quite important
to my entertainment, my thought processes, my reflections, my friendships, etc. Then,
of course we asked the question who cares? Does anybody
read anymore? The most you do is listen to books

(27:46):
as you're driving around. Certainly don't have the time to read. Well,
you might think about reading. I'm finally getting my daughters
to listen less and read more. By reading more, you
get to reread and reread, go back, read slow, read fast.
You're much more in control of the context that comes
from reading or that you were reading about. So this

(28:09):
is part of this facility that we've been in off
and on the last year. Next image, and of course
this is one of the off rooms where I hold meetings.
For the last week, well, starting last Thursday until Monday,

(28:30):
I had about thirty forty people stay at my house
having a conference with meeting sessions, sub sessions, no meetings
with all in one room, but with ten, fifteen, maybe
even twenty in a room. So I have these rooms
in the facility which people historically could meet in, and

(28:52):
they do meet in. And this is my rather traditional
dining room, which I added maybe two years after I
built the house because I wanted to stretch out into
nature and have a plants, animal and nature all the
way around the dining room. And so this is that
funny dining room, and some interesting meetings were held here

(29:16):
last weekend. And then the next image, and this is
the kitchen. A number of you wanted to know if
I actually had a kitchen, so on an earlier segment,
I think I filmed in the kitchen, but it wasn't

(29:37):
quite clear that was a kitchen, So this is a kitchen.
I do apologize because of my manner of doing things
such as architecture, such as building are quite different that
I believe in building the entire building been deciding what
the spaces are. I have no use for form follows

(29:57):
function in that I was taught that in architecture school,
never quite understood it, never did use it. So when
I build things, I like to build all kinds of
nice spaces all over the place, then later decide what
space should be used for what. And in this case,
this happened because I put a walkway around the house

(30:20):
with a roof at the same level. Somehow there I
screwed up. This space was twelve inches taller than the
other spaces around the house, and so it was quite
difficult to connect the roofs of the two. So I
ended up with this funny sloping roof that you see.

(30:40):
And then we had this aha discussion, which was, ah,
that would make a nice kitchen. That sloping space that
triangulates to a point is quite interesting as it comes
out over the stove gives emphasis to the stove, and
I thought, oh boy, you want so This is a

(31:00):
product of afterwards deciding what function goes in what space.
And I really like that way of doing it. And
this is why many my guests and this eight thousand
square foot facility get lost, and they really enjoy being lost.
They wander around and around hopelessly in a lost environment

(31:22):
with a smile. Next image. Now we come to a
rather important issue to try and give you something to
take away today. This question again we started with is
it too early? Is it too late? What should we
respond by sleeping or like Donald was in the last

(31:47):
show I had, remember that picture of Donald sleeping the
White House office? Or should we just be stressed out?
And so which of the two is better? Remember I
talked against opposites bipolar digital, so neither forget sleeping, forget
being stressed. Let's move on from this, leave these opposites

(32:12):
bipolar digital, et cetera behind, and move to this very
magical concept of both plus more with the emphasis on
more we love more. So where do we find more?
How do we find more? And if we go back
to the digital I've talked about, the fifth dimension is

(32:34):
filled with more, the fourth dimension is eliminating more, the
third dimension is producing more. So think of more. It's key.
Let's go on to the next. And then we have

(32:58):
this notion that I'll end on, which has to do
with a couple of you were concerned about my using
non rational as a term. They did not know what
the hell that meant, and I'm not sure I know either,
but I sure use it a lot. So several months

(33:19):
ago I brought up the non rational. So, in essence,
the non rational represents music, poetics, artistic things that don't
lend themselves to rational thought, and division and manipulation. Good
music is beyond manipulation and rational thought. And so I

(33:42):
have this three part system I use with many companies,
and even some of the board members like it. Usually
the CEO likes it very much. Distinction between the rational,
which I believe represents about ten percent of our reality,
not much, especially not much for the emphasis we give

(34:04):
it when we tell our wives please be rational, darling.
I have never done that. I've never known what the
hell it meant. Then we move on to the non rational,
which those that have discovered it argue for it, especially
from ancient Greece, ancient China, and then the current modern civilization.

(34:28):
The non rational represents about ninety percent of our reality
about nine times the rational. In other words, it's a
heavy part. And if you want to know more of reality,
you're better off looking at the non rational. You're better
off listening to great music. Then the third category I
call the irrational, which I would say is again about

(34:52):
ten percent of reality, maybe less, maybe more. And I
argue that to size making the non rational more rational
is what creates the irrational. And I'll give you an
example or two next time of what the hell that means.

(35:14):
But once more, the emphasis on loving the rational, as
many scientists do, and many leaders do, at least their
form of rational, to emphasize the rational of the non rational,
meaning a worker doing very well, disobeying the leader and

(35:37):
actually saving the company. To emphasize the rational in the
non rational creates the irrational, anger, unhappiness, leaving the job,
leaving the organization, going bankrupt, whatever. So be very careful
of criticizing the non rational, especially when you don't have

(35:58):
a clue what it is. I begin to have a clue,
but I'm not sure I know what it is. It's
very much of that fifth dimension. Anyway, maybe one small
example to put in your bonnet as you go away,
and as we leave tonight. I have mentioned this before,

(36:18):
it's worth mentioning again because this was the basis for
development of operations research in the nineteen fifties and sixties,
and it begins. And the author of that was Russell Akoff,
who was a great fan of Ambrose Bierce and his
Devil's Dictionary of eighteen eighty one, and in there he

(36:42):
defined logic viz a. The the term rational as rational
as an adjective devoid of all delusions save those of observation, experience,
and reflection. In other words, the no no logic, the
art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the

(37:05):
limitations and incapacities of human misunderstanding. Sounds bad, right, Then
he goes on the basis of logic is syllogism, consisting
of a major and a minor premise and a conclusion.
Thus the major premise is, for example, and this was

(37:30):
used in operations research to make fun of what they
were trying to leave, but again rediscovered before Akough walked
away from them. Major premise sixty men can do a
piece of work sixty times as quickly as one man.
You know, lots of managers and factories that believe in that.

(37:51):
A minor premise is one man can dig a posthole
in sixty seconds. Therefore a conclusion is dy man can
dig a post hole in one second. Just think of
those managers out on the shop floor, how much they
love this. This may be called the syllogism arithmetic, and

(38:12):
which by combining logic and mathematics we obtained a double
certainty and are twice blessed in being wrong. So therein
is all about Aristotle and why he leads you to
be wrong, and why computer science has come to be
quite helpful and leading you in the wrong direction. Sorry

(38:35):
to take you through that once more, but it's quite important.
It's a great example, and it's used in a lot
of CEO meetings to try and explain why you, somehow
are trying to go bankrupt with current leadership, current management
of the organization. So thank you very much. We'll see

(38:57):
you again next week. Let's hope my throat is clarified.
Let's hope that hole in the back of my throat
is plugged with something or other. Since it won't be wisdom,
maybe it'll be something nicer. Thanks very much, see you
next week.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
This has been what to do when it becomes too
late with host David Hawk. Recent studies conclude that about
eighty five percent are concerned with their being a human future.
They begin to sense that short term gains come at
a longer term price. Many are foregoing the idea of

(39:39):
immortality via having children. Tune in each week as David
talks about these and other important global issues Wednesdays, six
pm on the Bold Brave TV Network. Yousssssss