October 21, 2021 • 48 mins
Most actors deep down hope they can play roles that have an impact on society, move people with emotion, and in the rare case, become part of something much bigger than all of us. Brett Claywell sits with America's Podcaster, Kurt Caceres, to share his experience as a heterosexual young man from the south, playing one of the first gay characters on television, performing the first gay love scene in history and winning a Daytime Emmy all for this portrayal. This came at a time when gay marriage was only legal in a few states, and most of his family didn't understand nor could accept him choosing to play this role. This is the same kid who was put on hold for one of the leads opposite Natalie Portman, in the film Black Swan. After he auditioned for hours in a dark intimidating room for the legendary director Darren Aronofsky himself. Eventually the role went to Sebastian Stan, but this is the journey of an actor. Unknown to most, Brett played basketball on one of the most high profile national high school teams in the nation, and this is the reason he got the part of Tim Smith in the CW hit show, One Tree Hill. His father used to make him throw 100 pitches and shoot 100 free throws everyday after school. It's all about the work ethic, and he says that all his successful friends in Hollywood didn't make it to the top on a whim, they hustled and grinded day and night behind the scenes for years, unseen to most. Winning Emmy Awards. Playing on a hit show. Being groomed for one of the leads in a classic American film. And now he has all but retired from the business and has moved on to new ventures. This is the life of an actor in Hollywood.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Ladies and gentlemen, please take yourseats. The show is about to begin.
(00:26):
So here we go, Here wego, three two one. Welcome
to What Your Name Again? Inthe podcast This America's Podcast or kirkis Serras
coming at you. It's a Thursdayafternoon, and I'm excited because we have
an amazing guest. But I introducedhim in a second because I have a
secret surprise for him that he probablyhas no idea, something we have in
(00:47):
common. That is I'm gonna doon camera. It's gonna be freaking awesome.
When I figured when I found outsomething about you, I was like,
oh my god, it's great.So but let me introduce my co
host over here. I got mycoast across the way. We got coming
and all the way from Newport Beach, California, make the drive from Orange
County in the middle of the day. How commendo, Thank you so much.
We have Cassandra. Welcome Cassandra.Look at look at him in a
(01:10):
business suit. I had like rippedjeans and a T shirt and she walks
into business suit. I'm like,she just made me look bad looking like
that. It's like, that's veryprofessional. So exactly, she just loves.
She leveled it up and then nextto her again, becoming a staple
of the show and a Abbot supporter. Thank you, I love you.
(01:34):
Yeah, you're still so sweet.Oh my gosh, you're gonna make you
blish, but thank you with abrand new haircut over here. And my
favorite thing I love to do whenshe counts is announced her name because I
call her Ellie. So Joe,we'll go, so join the house.
So they got Ellie here is welcome. Thank you so much. And the
(01:56):
reason why our guest is here isbecause they have a relationship and they go
back and their friends. And I'mgonna introduce this guy real quick. But
before I introduce him, I'm gonnado something on camera. And UM,
so I'm gonna I'm gonna let's seehow I gotta do this. I'm gonna
put I'm gonna do I'm just gonnasit right next to you. Has gotten
(02:20):
off on camera first time He's goingHe's gonna camera, I'm gonna sit next
to sitting I've never done this onthe show. Okay, what is happening
right now? So, um giveme hand shake? They are shaking hand
Should we leave the room. Youdon't remember yes truth friends. Yeah,
(02:53):
yes, what you do the topone and then we do the yeah we're
brothers. I'm like, when areyou going on in school? Okay?
Yeah, O, my god,you just call it. I completely forgot
it because it's like five hundred yearsago. That's that is awesome. He
(03:16):
looks shocked and happy. So itwas like it normally doesn't start with a
hand touch. So I put myhand on his leg for those of you
not watching and us listening, andI rubbed his leg and then I shook
his hand. But so we're bothbrothers actually for life. And an attorney
called fid alta theta. That istrue. And when I saw that,
(03:36):
I was like, two, awesome, that's cool. That's freaking really cool.
No, And I always wonder whenI'm around who you might meet him.
You never know because we don't goaround saying hey are you It's not
like I have like an eardrop exactly, like we should have like some mark
on us so we know. Butwe do have secret like I said that
(03:59):
saying to him, I said,are you a FI? And there's he
has to respond, brother in thebond. Yeah, And then I say
what's your purpose? Yeah? Andthen that's how we know. And then
there's a secret handshake that I triedto give him. But there's also another
thing. Do you remember the otherthing? This thing exactly I was going
(04:20):
to do that too. And thenand you know it's funny. The street
I live on is called Morrison.Oh yeah, did you even realize that?
Yeah? So one of our foundingfathers was his name was Morrison sixth
founding bless you who start talking aboutexcited? So you were you were the
(04:42):
taw class, I was Zeta,we were we were newer. What was
your bond number? Eighty one?So so you guys know, um,
the Greek alphabet. Do you rememberthe Greek alphabet? Ready, let's do
it. Ready, I'm gonna doit. Alpha Gamma out to epson,
Zeta, ada, theta, Iowa, Cappa, lamba, moon, new,
(05:03):
zimicron pie ro sign. He waslike he had no you know what
it was is because when we weregoing through pledging, we were forced to
learn it. Like we would begetting taken out in the middle of the
(05:24):
night to like obscure places, andthey would blindfold us and take us out
to an empty field, and allof a sudden, these bright lights would
be on us, and they'd bemaking us like drink beer and like pounding
beer cans and like do that alphabetif you don't know, get push ups,
and they throw stuff at us,like hazing. Is everyone just yet?
(05:44):
So we were more relaxed. Itwas a different every Chester. My
little Brett doesn't know that. Yeah, I mean I know, it was
a long time. Maybe I graduated. I graduated before you. Yes,
I'm old and so well, thenyour brothers right now are very disappointed.
They are they've been ever since Iwas in I almost didn't even make it.
(06:08):
That's now. I'm okay, cool, but that's awesome. So I
just want to make like an actionbecause yes, we are brothers for life.
And then on that topic, whatare your thoughts on like secret societies
because people always um, well,you know, you still haven't introduced me.
Oh oh my gosh, this isBrett. We're gonna get into it.
Well, it's gonna be an anonymousthis is Oh yeah, I'm just
(06:30):
gonna I'm gonna have like the shadingover completely. I'm gonna change your voice.
Yeah. So actually, oh yeah, that's right. His is Brett
play Well, welcome to the studio. Brett, Welcome to the show.
What your name again? My name? And so if you didn't know,
(06:54):
Yeah, so that's that's that's theshow. Guys. We're just gonna he's
a frid out. So. Um, but I did see some more that
you you won a state championship inhigh school and basketball. I did did
what Hi, Dudley High. Yeah, so you guys were actually what state
is that? UM? That isNorth Carolina? North Carolina, and so
the best in the state. Wewere. We were, let's be honest,
(07:15):
I was not the star of theteam, but you're on the team
I played. I chose not toplay my junior year and that was probably
probably one of the top five mistakesin my life. Yeah, because I
just I just you still regret itkind of, Yeah, because I might.
It was it was like a dynastythere. Ye. So Brendan Haywood,
who played for the U for theUM at least asked before we just
(07:46):
not part of the y. Igive more than so. Like Brendan Haywood
who played for the we won anNBA championship. He was our center.
We were the number one ranked publicmy senior year. Really you were a
really but I sat the bench inmy ninth grade in tenth grade year,
and I just kind of got tiredof that. So I played my junior
(08:07):
year. Okay, so the mysenior year, I kind of sat the
bench again. But so you tookyour junior off and that kid, because
I just was tired, Like,yeah, I broke my hand in eighth
grade, I broke my arm inninth grade or vice versa. Yeah,
and so I just never could andI'm the only white kid to ever play
basketball there. Ever. Oh that'shistory of thought. Like I'll show you.
I'll send you a let's see,it's even it's like, I'll bring
(08:31):
it up, but yeah, I'llsend it to you because that'd be awesome
everybody. That's really funny. It'soh my gosh, because I was just
assuming it was a made majority whiteschool. No, there was, like
there was like fifteen white kids inthe whole school. Wow. But so
even though you rode the bench,you still I played every sport, let's
be I was the athlete of theyear my senior year. Yeah, because
(08:52):
I played football, I played soccer, I ran across country, I ran
track, like well, so youwere out there competing with everybody like like,
but basketball. I was like,I was the only guy on the
team that couldn't dunk. Just toput it in perspective, fifteen guys lay
applied. It's like we're gonna bedoing the dun Okay, guys, we're
gonna be doing the dunk drill nowalready getta line. But as as with
(09:15):
life, everything um leads to somethingelse. Everything serves a purpose. My
acting career was based on basketball,Like I got my launch because I couldn't
play basketball. Oh look at thatcircle play and he just said he's an
actor. So speaking of being anactor, he was a lot of people
will know him. He played TimSmith on a on a show called One
(09:37):
Tree Hill. That was that wasa very successful to me. I think
that was one of the early showsthat was the young, hot twenties type
of cast. That's when CW reallystarted. I mean there was the started
actually for the Little Trivia first seasonon One Trial was on WB Yeah.
Oh, because CW in the middleof it. So I always got confused.
(10:00):
Is the two kind of the samefew job? Yeah? They got
Rid of the Frog? Remember thatthat frog? What are you guys marketing
too? I know cartoons? Theyhad One Tree Hill it's like, what
what is marketing too? It's likelike an old like jazz musician in New
(10:20):
Orleans. And then it's exactly,did you guys? Did you guys?
Do you ladies ever watched One TreeHill? I didn't. You didn't know.
I'm gonna go back. I'm gonnago back. And it's great.
This show is going really well.So far, no one knows people who
he is. Yeah, it's great, but but the thing is, there's
millions Please leave my lower third.You're still face is going to be blanked
(10:46):
out this whole job. But believeme, he really was on the show
once I was, so that showwas very successful. It did really well.
How everyone a lot of people wentthere and became you know, did
bigger things that show? And thenno you didn't, but hey, um
so. And then another thing hedid was he played a guy named Kyle
(11:09):
Lewis on One Life to Live fora few years. And what's amazing about
that is you want a glad Awardfor that? Noah, And for those
you don't know, that's a gamelesbian this show. Yeah yeah, well
I thought your character because your characteryou played a Garca, was because of
the storyline like okay, it wasso me and my co star. Oh
(11:31):
yeah, oh cool, and so, um, how how long were you
on there? U two years?And instantly you knew going in there the
storyline, Oh you changed half hiredme for a different role. No way,
did a little little bait and switch. Give me, give me to
come to New York. Three monthsin they're like, hey, by the
way, he's not gonna say yesif we tell him now, I mean
(11:52):
not gonna say that's exactly what theydid. But yeah they did. I
auditioned for another role. It wasmore like Nelson. I don't know if
you remember. It was like ateacher with a drug problem. Yeah.
I love the role. And thenum, we did a few days of
that and they called me up andthey're like, look, we love you.
They just the chemistry between you andthe lead girl. She was actually
(12:13):
eighteen, and they were like itjust looks like I look too old,
is what they told me. They'relike, but we want to keep you
around. We're gonna we're gonna developa role for you. But and then
two months later, very pretty sowe have a role just for you.
Yeah. And then they were like, well, now that you're hearing you
got an apartment. This is whatwe're doing. Like, uh huh,
okay, let me think about that. That's awesome. Yeah, that's cool.
(12:35):
Well good, And then you're thatlasted a few years and what you
worked a few days a week?Yeah, you work about three days a
week and you got a lot ofthe rest of the time. Yeah.
I was in New York for ayear on a soap. Best year ever
had it was. It was prettygood. It worked two days a week
max, and just the rest ofthe time just saw the city experiences.
I balanced out the gay scenes equallyNormalca Sanza, did you watch One Life
(13:01):
to Live? I did, butnot during his time. Yes, up,
I literally watched it because of mygrandmother. I mean, do you
do anything other than disrespect me onthe show? That's that's what her job
is. I feel bad. Didyou even know who you're showing up to
(13:30):
talk to? Are you an actress? Because you need to get better line
just say, yeah, I lovethis show you but I was being honest
true podcast Ever, Yes, Iwant to to find I'm interested in regardless,
that's the thing. Regardless of that, I'm interested in you, even
if you are that more genuine Yes, that's not Hollywood, right, it's
(13:54):
real life. It's real. Heis making up ground now. Yes,
she is way back. She doesn'tcare if you're a nobody. I don't.
I don't know at least. Ohmy gosh, so what I did?
(14:15):
You guys are so I'm gonna benice to you. No, no,
don't be nice. I'm learning aboutyou for you, just like the
listeners, like we're learning together.Yes I am. You didn't know.
I'm like, I'm always Clark Kinn. I'm never Superman, like I go
(14:35):
on the phone booth and I'm justmaking it like shit. We even have
people, Navius. Does anybody outthere want to take the shouts? Nobody
knows who I am? You geta piece of paper for it? Thank
god you can read otherwise talk aboutYeah, I want to go back and
watch all those shows. You shouldn't. No, you should you should,
(14:58):
because come on, it's especially OnceHill. That's history, man, that's
it. Well, One Life toLive, I'd be real obviously One Tree
Hill was fluff. One Life toLive. The great thing about that is,
like I all jokes aside, likeI didn't know what I was going
to be playing. It took melike a week to think through that because
I was a younger dude. Itwas a different time in my career.
On the same time, like inthe first three months of One Life to
(15:22):
Live, I auditioned for a BlackSwan with Darren Aronovski and I was on
hold for the role that Sebastian Stanactually got nice. And I was also
doing Dollhouse, which was a JoshWheaton show on Fox, which I was
going to bring up. So Iwas doing all of these at the same
time, and it was like theI was on hold for six weeks for
Black Swan. That was gonna belike the role the life changer, right,
And so I was like thinking,like, what are the rights?
(15:43):
Did you realize at the time whatyou were on hold for? Like,
oh yeah, I mean I wasin a dark room with the blinds pulled
and it's Darren Aronovski out there,and he like, all it was the
craziest audition I've ever had because Iread the scene and I'm in New York,
I haven't really lived there long.I like, it's just a whole
new vibe. And all he saysis that right after I do a scene,
he goes, great, do itagain, but do less and I
(16:06):
was like, okay, that's that'san interesting note. Okay, let me
do it. And I'm halfway throughthe scene and he goes he just interrupts
me and he goes do less,like very direct, and I'm like,
holy, it's like yeah. Andthen and then I read it, and
then at the end he goes,he goes, Okay, how tall are
you? And I go I'm likefive ten, five eleven, and he
(16:29):
goes, you're five nine, aren'tyou? And I'm like, oh,
I was like sure, I'm fivenine. He goes, good, because
we're not hiring anybody over five ninebecause Natalie Portman was short. He goes
like basically told me in the roomthat I got the part. And then
over six weeks, the way Hollywoodworks, yeah, on the film,
they packaged it, they got theiractor in which Sebastian stand who's now the
(16:51):
Winter Soldier. It's like that's howHollywood works. But at that time with
the soap, I'm like, Idon't know if I want to do this.
But then I thought through it andI realized, like the an actor's
job is just to tell the truth. Pulling it back to that it's just
to tell the truth. This whenwe started that role, gay marriage was
not legal anywhere in the United States. When we finished that storyline, it
was legal in like five or sixstates, California, New York, and
(17:15):
we were we were interviewed all thetime, Like I was kind of you
were at the forefront, the forefrontof that because we were the first gay
love scene. We were the firstgay scene in the history of daytime.
We were the first gay love scene, like an actual love making scene in
the history of television ever like DaytimePrimetime. Wow. So it was like
really, you know, we weredoing all these interviews and it was it
(17:37):
was me being not mature enough forthat moment. Yeah, struggling privately for
some of that because I had toI had to disown family, like not
disowned, but like I had tostop talking to people because I'm from North
Carolina. Yeah, people didn't understand, well I was going to ask you,
so being from kind of the South, yea mental mind state and Middle
America's huge in the soaps. Firstof all, that was the big family
(18:00):
were putting it. Did get itbecause some of my family did. Some
of my family didn't. Yeah,it's how did they respond to you?
Um, they love me? Theysupport me. They knew I was heterosexual,
but gay marriage back then was justsuch a hot topic. Yeah,
you know, two thousand and eight, it feels like so long. It
seems like it was they did.They feel like you're doing something not right
(18:25):
by trying to normalize this like thissome of my family, UM, I
think believe that that did not believein gay marriage. And our whole storyline
we got married on screen, um, like we had. I had one
take and I was like, Iwas, I mean, there's there's moments
where, like, you know,I they let us start to really control
the role a little bit and makeit our own. So there was this
(18:48):
one I was supposed to marry thisThere was this huge, like uh public
gay marriage scene in the show wherelike multiple couples men and women because the
you know, the the other twoactors that I worked with were gay,
The head writer was gay. Um, other people involved in the show.
So it was an important storyline topeople. I was the only head of
(19:10):
a sexual one. Yeah, andit um and I broke away to tell
the guy that I really loved,like, you know, confess that.
And it was like such an emotionalmoment and scene for me and it actually
ended up being a powerful scene fora lot of other people as well.
Um, it was just it's somethingI believed it, Yeah, you know,
and I believed it's It's very rarethat as an actor you get a
(19:30):
chance to um play a role thatimpacts the real world. Yes, we're
always living in fantasy where we're makingum we're making fiction real, right,
But in this moment, fiction wasaffecting um our society in a real way
and that was kind of had ahuge part and actually changing where things of
(19:53):
God. I mean, we werelike in USA today, and because because
that's such a huge show, wewere all over the place where people watched
that show, so all of asudden you opened people's eyes to it.
That happened like we were before ModernFamily and all these things that are progressive
exactly. And that's honest. That'sthe last role I ever played, Like
I have not acted since that moment. Yeah, I took a break,
(20:15):
but it ended up you know,it was it was going to be a
short hiatus. I mean, II admire you for doing that because you
know, early on in my career, I wouldn't have done that, Yeah,
because I would have been worried Iwould have been put in a box.
Not oh it's gay, but I'mgonna be it actually happened, Yeah,
I didn't. I mean I don'thave physical proof of it. Yeah,
(20:36):
But I came back and I hada lot of opportunities still, and
I was always like right there,you know, it was it always felt
like the career was like one auditionaway, like the Blacks, one thing,
like it would lots of those Dallas. I was really close for Jesse
Metcalf's role, like different shows.I was right there. Yeah, and
then I just felt like, youknow, I just needed a break.
(20:56):
Yeah, I needed to breathe.I had some other concept that I wanted
to pursue that ended up, youknow, taking over my life for the
next few years. Well, let'stell people about that, because the point
of the show is actually educate peoplethat are not in the business, but
what we go through and also newactors understand what you're about to get into
people that knew in a town.Now, let's talk about getting close on
(21:17):
things, because that's gonna be that'sfrustrating. I mean to get to be
right there on something so huge numeroustimes, to be right there and then
it doesn't happen, It doesn't numberon your psyche over and over, over
and over, over and over,just getting so close. But your job
is your job is the rejection.Yeah, being on set is just for
fun. Yeah, you know yourjob is to go in, day in
(21:40):
and day out, you know,three times a day, drive all over
LA. Now it's a little different. Self taping has completely changed the industry,
But we used to. I meanI would load my car up and
I'd have golf clubs in the trunkor basketball shoes in the trunk, because
if I had a four pm auditionon the other side of town, I'm
not driving back for hours just toget so I would stop at UCLA play
basketball like I just I would stopat a Part three course and just play
(22:03):
like it becomes your full day job, just to go out and hear you
didn't get this, you didn't getthis, you didn't get this. Um.
But also in a way, you'realso only as good as your representation.
Yes, and you don't represent yourself. And somebody that went to school
like I got I have an architecturedegree. I was an architect before I
was on one trehol like I wasworking at a firm like I. I
(22:23):
had other things I felt like Iwas capable of. And back then,
um, actors have a little more. You know, we were before social
media one treil was before all,so you didn't have a way to build
your own brand. But um,it was it was just a different flow
and you couldn't. You couldn't.Like I had an idea and a concept.
(22:45):
I was, you know, Iguess we'll get into it. But
I was really far ahead of gaming. Yeah, and I had a concept
I wanted to explore in the gamingindustry. And my managers were like,
you're an actor. Yeah. I'mlike, but but I could do this
and this is gonna be worth alot of money if we go this route.
They're like, no, you're inNowadays, actors have their own all
their own businesses. Yeah, they'rewriting, they're directing, they're acting.
(23:07):
They got social media there, whichthen used to be back that you're only
an actor. Yeah, because Iactually would have people to take tell me
advice, don't spread yourself too thin, just be an actor. Yea to
only do that, and I waslike, okay, but I want to
write too, No just fact.Yeah, but now you have to do
as much as you can, YEP. So they used to not take you
seriously if you said you were anactor, that no one took you serious
for other things, for other thingslike I The reason I took a break
(23:30):
was I just I was. Iwas exhausted with the puppetry. Um,
I got fired from one life tolive with literally my Emmy Riel in my
hand. You got fired? Well, I mean whatever they with. The
last last scene we ever filmed wasus winning adoption of a baby Me and
my we we were in court,me and my partner. Um uh.
(23:55):
His last name was fish officer fish. Um they we we won custody of
a baby baby girl. Last singeevering? Did you know that was going to
be the end of the I wentin to turn in my Emmy real because
I was prenominated for an Emmy andI had it in my hand and EP
calls me in and he goes tomorrow. He goes to day's your last day
on set? And I'm like,I'm supposed to film tomorrow, and he
(24:17):
goes, sorry, tomorrow's your lastday on set? No freaking And he
didn't say. You didn't ask,you were just like all right, I
mean what for? Like what whatis any question going to do for me.
That's what she told me. Yeah, And the show was canceled like
three months later, you know,obviously because they got rid of me.
But but I mean when I startedin New York, five soaps were in
(24:42):
New York and when I left,we were the last one. Yeah,
there was an exodus because it wastoo expensive and a lot of them.
You know, there's only General Hospitalin days of our lives. I have
a lot of friends on soap.It was a great, great job,
great training. Um. I regretit because I didn't really become a good
actor until One Life to Live becauseI had to play a role that one
(25:02):
Tree Hill. I was just comedicrelief. One Life to Live, I
like really started to explore a characterto them and really really stepped outside of
myself and hit emotional notes that Iwasn't maybe able to hit nice to you
don't hear them a lot. Usuallyhear it the other way around. Yeah.
Wow, So I so I Iregret it because and I almost I
just uh, I just started auditioningagain. So about last six months of
(25:29):
retirement, little things here and there, I got a manager like I was.
I was really close to a rolelike a few weeks ago and I
just had surgery and my body wasn'tin shape. They needed a shirtless pick
because I've been doing and it wasa yoga instructure. It was recurring on
(25:49):
this nice show. And I'm like, so I have just started to get
back into okay because I'm never gonnabe Zekielofanaki. Yeah, I know what
I They don't want Zach you know, Jonah Hill. They want something different,
so so I may I I like, I feel like I have unfinished
business in front again. Yeah,but I also feel like I accomplished a
(26:11):
lot in the last ten years.I just feel, Yeah, we're gonna
We're gonna really break into because that'swhat I love about this episode in your
story is that you've created a lifeafter acting, and that's what I want
everybody understanding. A moment. We'regonna get that. We have so many
things in common because gaming, thegaming industry was huge for me, and
I'll tell you about it a littlebit. But you I was also on
(26:32):
Dollhouse. I was in the pilotthe whole in the Yeah, I know,
you did a bunch of episodes Dollhouseand then the pilot. Were you
in the pilot. Yeah, ohyou were What did you play? I
was Matt. I was the veryopening scene. Oh that was you.
Oh my gosh, that's I wasthe guy. The whole episode was about
my character because my my daughter gotkidnapped and then Eliza's working with me to
(26:56):
find my daughter. That was greatbecause Josh had all this bad press lately.
I'm like I did when I workedwith him. I can't speak to
everyone's really you know, yeah,exactly, every mark on the Creator or
One Trio. I had a lotof bad things come out about him,
and it's like, you know,you don't know every aspect of every human
exactly. You can only go fromyour experience. Yeah, yeah, Josh,
(27:18):
I really, I mean I auditionedfor that. This was another fun
I had no idea Josh was inthe room, but I really like I
got the role and I'm like andthey're like, Josh loved you, and
I'm like, where was he?What? Like where the hat and the
bat? I'm like, that's justhow oblivious I was at that time.
I was like, I gotta goto the club. I don't know who's
in the room exactly, who evenI didn't even know who he was yeah,
(27:41):
Like to me, I was like, Jos, who's the dude?
Yeah, I mean I didn't exactly, but then all of a sudden,
like this guy's cool. Was agreat experience. Yeah. And so before
we get out of your acting career, I just want again people to understand,
now, what was your experience inthe early years now that you're getting
back into it, but your earlyyears, I want I want to understand
(28:03):
what did you have a did youhustle? Was it a lot of hustle
when you first got to LA likethe grind. I got lucky because I
was hired out of North Carolina,Oh worry for the pilot. So I
did Dawson's Creek. I got outof college at NC State, I moved
to Wilmington. I gave myself athree year window, you know, like
yeah, because I did. Igot a minor in theaters. Yeah.
I quit my architecture job two weekswhere I graduated because my professor in theater
(28:26):
was like, you should try this, and I'd never considered it. Yeah,
because I was a nerd girl.Yeah, I was kind of a
nerd like I just so I neverthought of like I did theater since I
was five years old. I didchildren's theater. I did competition theater in
high school. I just loved acting. Yeah, I never thought of it
as a career. I'm from NorthCarolina. Like, yeah, it's the
furthest thing exactly. And he's like, you should try this, give it
(28:47):
a try. And I was like, like the all the stars aligned.
I moved to Wilmington with two fraternitybrothers, I X I pad So.
I hustled in Wilmington. I padI actually was an extra and Patch Adams
Oh Pata because I because I wantedto see, Like I wanted to start
at the bottom, Like if Ican spend fourteen hours one day on set
(29:07):
in a woolf sweater in the middleof summer in North Carolina, then cool,
Like that's the worst job there is. Yes. Then I p eight
on some things in Wilmington. Igot an agent through that. I auditioned
and it happened really quick. Igot Dawson's Creek really quick, and then
they were doing the pilot for OneTree Hill. I auditioned, um crazy
(29:29):
story. I was out of town. I got back in casting agents called
me in audition. There was alreadysomebody else's picture up on the wall.
For Tim, no, just thatthings went my way, but they already
had their guy friends with the guythat. Oh I want people to hear
this though. This is what peopleneed to understand. See. The only
other career that I can I tryto compare what we do too is professional
(29:51):
sports. It's a business like oneday you're their favorite, the next day
someone else is coming. You're gone. Sorry you're going to another team.
Sorry you're fired, You're off theshows. Sorry we cast somebody else.
Yep. I mean this dude whohad that role was told, oh no
more, it's not even I don'tthink he even knew he had the role.
Yeah, I like told him laterbecause I knew him. His name
is Mitch Aikins, like old cooldude. We became really close. He
(30:11):
was in Glory Road. We becamefriends. Um. His picture was up
on the wall when I went in. But part of the story was I
came in and read and they werelike, oh, that was great,
we loved it. I was like, I knew they were having open basketball
tryouts the next day on Saturday forlike all the extras, because it was
a basketball show when we first started. It became something else. But I
was like, well, can Ido you want me to go to that
(30:33):
he's They were like, well,that's for extras, it's not really for
you. But in my head,I'm like, oh, like, this
is a basketball show. My characteris the point guard of the team.
Is it cool if I just comeby? And they were like yeah,
that's all right whatever. And thewe're doing like warm up. There's like
two hundred people there. You know, there are everybody's trying to be just
a you know, get a balljust yeah, there are a lot of
ballers. But I grew up withballers. Yeah I was a ball Yeah
(30:56):
to be modest um so I butlike I was, I just felt myself.
I was twenty two years old.Yeah. And we're doing three on
three like warm like drills where youlike three on two and then come back
the other way. And the firsttime I had the ball, I'm going
down and I fake a pass thisway and I go behind my back to
the guy over here and he makesa layout and like everybody's like ah,
(31:18):
And as I'm backing up, Ibecause I had auditioned, I knew the
producers and they were up in thestands and I'm just pointing up at it's
like I can act, but youdidn't know that some guys on the show
and I'm not gonna say names.Yeah, um, we're not good basket
(31:38):
to know that, Like when you'refilming and now I know this being older,
Like as a producer, when you'refilming and you got twelve fourteen hour
days in a basketball gym and yougotta we would run plays. Yeah,
it's choreography, so like things haveto happen perfectly for the cameras to catch.
I'm like, you're in a hotgym, there's conditioning, Like it's
a lot to know that the guywho has the ball in his oh my
(32:00):
god, trust him. That's well. Yeah, how many times have you
watched a show or movie with basketballand it's awful? You could like the
way their form because I'm I'm prettyI'm a pretty good baller too, but
like the form is bad, theway they shoot. You're like, these
guys don't play basketball and it totallytakes me out of it. But also
like with my life, I likeI connect the dots. My dad didn't
(32:22):
that plumbing electricity till he was sixteenor seventeen really, and he grew up
in very rural Kentucky. He wasthe first in his family to go to
college on a baseball and basketball scholarsand his principle in middle school actually held
him back a year so he wouldgrow so he could start on his high
school team his freshman year, sohe had a better chance to get out
(32:45):
of So it was like, there'sthis whole story where then my dad drilled
me every day when I got homefrom from elementary school. I had to
throw one hundred pitches and shoot onehundred free throws every day after elementary school.
So then full you know, youcome full circle, and now this
moment, all of that two generationsled to like me being able to play
(33:05):
basketball to get this role. AndI also now know why you have your
work ethic. Yeah, that's it, that's for work ethic. Well,
most athletes later in life work ethic. You'll never usually meet a successful athlete.
A lot of times I don't havea great work ethic because that's all
we did, you kids, allthe stuff. Curry shoots a thousand three
pointers a day. Yeah a thousand. Yeah, Like that's insane, that's
(33:29):
insane. But as you were tellingthe story, I literally have goose bumps.
It's like to to like have yourdad basketball be the thing that pulls
him out, and then basketball bethe thing that pulls you out, that
you know pulls you up. Thatthat's just like such a family legacy.
And my mom was a teacher.She got me in the theater. She
(33:51):
was the one, like she wasthe arts. Oh God, I give
them credit. Like everything that hashappened is happening. And you know you
said something that's so important. Ithink to kind of like reiterate, is
that extra step, that extra mile. Like a lot of times I feel
like, especially in the entertainment industry, we put our faith in somebody else's
(34:14):
hands and then we go sit inour corner and we're like, I hope
they picked me. I hope theypicked me. I hope they picked me.
And but what you did was different. You're like, Okay, so
this is what I can do.And then I'm going to go that extra
site even more. Because I whenI went out of town, I knew
that they were auditioning for this.I wrote a letter and took somebody out
(34:35):
to a basketball court and had themfilm me playing basketball, and I sent
that to the producers. I don'tremember. It's the fact that you did
the work. But and then whenI was driving back to town, I
called the casting agents and said,are you still auditioning? So, like
you know, they had they hadfinished auditioning. They just let me audition
that final day. I have aquestion that that those actions that you hook
(35:00):
to me, that's like thinking likea producer. You were thinking like a
producer. How did you know todo that so young and think about production
and background? I was naive inbelief, like I just always believe like
this is something I can encapsulate it. Now being older, is I realize
that the only times I ever failedis when I gave up. If you
(35:21):
don't give up, you don't fail. It's just not happening on the time
frame that you imagine, right,Yeah, we set goals for ourselves and
we put we put you know,it's this is going to happen by then
or by then. But like peoplelike what is Samuel Jackson didn't get his
first speaking role to his forty oneyeah, something like that, It's not
failure if it happens later than youexpects was over forty yeah, And that's
(35:45):
so that's so true. Is notcontinuing in some ways I could like I
would I'm persistent, yeah, andI always have been. I always,
like, you know, there wereso many things in my life that people
didn't believe, Like even make inthe basketball team at Udley is an accomplishment,
right and because other people haven't doneit, and I just I've just
(36:06):
never been one that listens to thedoubt in my head. I only listened
to the encouragement. And that's that'sreally different than a lot of actors showing
up to auditions, because most actorsshow up with doubt in their head,
you know, in the fear ofrejections. So that's very different for that
young of an age. It takesa lot to understand. But once you
once you have this epiphany, it'sempowering. But it I think I had
(36:30):
a little too much of this tobe really honest, but I knew that
when I walked in the room,that was my times. That's the best
thing I've ever heard, because Ilike, like it was like it was
perfect, like the Sports Center highlight. I still remember it. I remember
what the wall looked like, Iremember the banners, like it could not
(36:52):
have gone more perfectly for the youknow, most of the kids there were
African American yeah, you know,I'm still the minority, but this is
my element. Yeah, I wouldto four years. You know historically black,
Well, that's why you weren't intimidatedbecause you had you always had to
fight to keep it. And literally, like my freshman year at Dudley,
like there, I mean there wasa guy beside my my locker beside mine
(37:15):
that had a gun in his locker. Yeah, I went to a hood.
Was the horn rose in my inmy in my hair during my time
there? I acclimated, But Ishouldn't even call it corner rose. That's
offensive. Um I had rose?But um, do you show up differently
to auditions now? So when youwent back to acting recently, Like,
(37:35):
do you show up? I've beenin an audition in so long, but
I've the self tapes, right,I mean, do you feel differently when
you're doing it or when you wentback to versus how you were? Like?
What's different? I would say this, I don't know if I necessarily
feel different. I have less dependenceon it because it's not my primary source
of income anymore. But I stillfelt the same way back then, where
(37:57):
it never Um, I I didn'tgo to my audition for Twilight like I
didn't like the script. Wow,even though like that's twice I had friends
in that that I'm like, Ireally wish i'd gone to that idea.
Oh my god, it was Kellen'srole. I think, Um, Kellen,
I don't remember. Jasper was myfriend Jackson. We were an asking
(38:19):
acting class together. He's amazing actor. I'm surprised he never made it further.
But like, um, I thinkit was Kellen's role. Like the
Yeah, I don't remember. Ijust didn't like the script. I was
like, I don't want to doa vampire movie. It was stupid.
But I I, UM, whatI realized in the same now is like
that's and I tell this to anybodythat acts that's wants to talk about it,
(38:42):
is like, that's your time.You know the you have five minutes,
you have ten minutes. Just ownit. And I loved going in
the room because I was really personable. I would I would become friends with
casting AIGs, I would talk,we would kick it like we would.
I would make sure that they likedme. And first, if you're gonna
be on set with somebody for twomonths, for three months, for however
(39:05):
long, first thing I want toknow is that I'm gonna, I'm gonna
like them on set. Yes,and I and people knew you were gonna
enjoy me on set. I'm gonnaknow the pas. I'm gonna know the
set Pa. I'm gonna I'm gonnaknow the gaffers. I'm gonna talk.
I'm gonna you know. I'd havepoker nights at my house during One Tree
Hill, like to bring the crewover, like we'd be Yeah, I
wanted it's a team. Yeah,so don't ever be bigger than the team.
(39:30):
I think is a sports metaphor there. Um, But I just I
just love going in and just owningmy time in there, and so when
I left, i'd sometimes feel likemaybe I didn't do my best. My
problem was always in my preparation.It was never was when I was in
the room. I was really Iwould I would cold read in a way
(39:51):
a lot of auditions and I wasmore of that time, and that works
a lot for being on set,doesn't work as well for being on an
in an audition because they're not givingyou much back. But I was really
good at every take was going tobe different because if the other actor gave
me something different, I was goingto take that and give it back to
you differently. So I was goingto be malleable. I'm probably looking back,
(40:13):
I would say I'm more prepared nowas an actor. I come in
having stronger choices and feeling more confidentin my interpretation of the role now than
maybe I did. But don't youthink to a lack of desperation, Not
that you're desperate, but you knowhow when you're not relying on income and
you're not relying on that source tomake a living, that lack of desperation
(40:35):
when you're in a room. Ithink people sense that because a lot of
actors, musicians, people, theyshow up to something and it's like it
has to be this because that's howyou're surviving. But when you don't have
to, you don't have everything writingon it. There's freedom in that with
your creativity because you can be exactlywhat you want to be because it doesn't
matter right, You're going to dowhat you want because at least you can
live with it. Then I thinkI got really lucky having booked a role.
(40:59):
I moved to La already on ashow and a few we'd already done
one season a One Tree Hill.Nobody like that's such a rare thing.
So I never really felt that.I always felt like if I don't get
this whatever, like I was livinga good life, probably more than I
should have. So for those ofyou watching and listening, yeah, that
doesn't happen. Don't come here thinkingbook your one Tree Hill right away.
(41:22):
You've got to put in the workthough. But what's what I'm hearing though
here over and over is the workethic. Yeah, putting in the work
ethic. And that's what's important foreverybody to learn, is that once you
get here, you gotta keep grindingand you got to put it, put
it in. It's somebody that Iknow that succeeded is just succeeded out of
the like you know, the whimlike they they grind, they work.
(41:43):
The acting class, I can say, job, the job is everything that
you don't see. Yeah, andyou're it's a craft. You should love
it, you shouldn't. I neverdid it for the money. It never
mattered to me. You love it. I love being in the moment.
Now. Now, let's let's explainreal quick speaking about the craft. What's
(42:04):
the difference for the audience when hedid once Free Hill, that shot with
one camera, and soaps are donewith three. So explain the difference for
you, your process or your experiencewith one camera as opposed to a soap
that's three cameras. Um, Imean the cameras don't really matter or they
I mean, I guess the moreand more advanced you get as an actor,
(42:25):
you understand the difference performance when it'sa master versus when it's a close
up. You understand how to changeyour performance in those moments to give the
director what he wants or the audiencewhat you know, what you want.
I think what was more is thepace of the you know. And on
(42:47):
One Tree Hill we might shoot sevenpages a day. On One Life to
Live we shoot one hundred and twenty. So there are you. You learn
little tricks of the trade in soapoperas where if you one another take,
you would mess up a line onpurpose if you didn't like your because if
you get the lines out clean,they're they're they're moving on. Like that
(43:09):
scene I told you about where Iconfess my love at the marriage, that
was one take. They gave meone take. I cried. I was
like, can I do it again? They were like no, we got
to move on. Yeah, andlike there, and there were times where
you're at the end of the dayand something's gone wrong. People, you
know, people get fired like thatsoaps. I mean, we had a
I remember distinctly this this woman cameon for a contract role and she the
(43:32):
next day there was a different actressthere, like she just couldn't get her
lines out, and they were like, we just can't do it. They
also raised them from the dead too. Oh yeah. They filmed down one
side of the of the stage,set by set by set by set in
the morning, and then it's lunchand they're filming the other set side the
afternoon, and they're rebuilding the otherside in between takes for the next morning.
(43:59):
And then when you leave it atnight, there's a whole crew waiting
outside to come in overnight and changeall the sense. It is a twenty
four seven machine. And so wedid one. So one of those days
where we were behind, we werethe end of the day and they were
over time. So the producers cometo us and they're like, look,
we guys, we really need youguys to crush it because they're paying everybody
time and a half like we were. And we did forty one pages of
(44:22):
dialogue in an hour and a half, like that's come in and we block
it in the You block it whenyou come in, so when you come
to set, you already know boom, boom, boom, hit your marks,
hit marks, hit marks, andwe would just get we get the
lines out, boom, move iton, get the lines out, and
that's what it goes out to theworld. So people say, also,
b acting is blah blah blah,but it's being cut in real time too.
(44:44):
They're going camera. That's why everylook at almost every actor you've heard
of from a certain generation, andthey have been on soaps. Brad Pitt
was on sooms. Meg Ryan camefrom soaps like like everybody he came from.
So I've done every sip that existed. Tommy Lee Jones was on Yeah,
I've been on every single one.They're the best actors. They just
(45:07):
they're type cat like some of theactors are the best actors and you move
on and then all of a suddenyou give us time, you know,
you give I remember going I wentto when I was living the crazy life.
One of the weekends, I wentto Vegas and we were Michael Bay
was with our group and that waslike crazy. Yeah, we were like
a dinner with Michael Bay and it'swhen he was filming the first Transformers and
(45:28):
I'm saying, he's like how manyyou know. I'm saying, oh,
we do one hundred twenty pages ina day, and he's like, we
do three. Yeah, exactly.It's a completely different world. It's crazy.
It's a lot of yes. Andso yeah, for those of you
listen, it's an episode of Dayand you come in there and it's just
boom, boom boom, And mostactors is the first job you're gonna get.
Isn't it a whole thing too withmemorizing the lines, because a lot
(45:51):
of actors can't or not very muchmemorize lines. And they say that that's
why I was always screting that linebecause I never won. I never Preparation
was always my weakness. I neverlike, you know, I wasn't that
British style. I was more oflike the Marlon Brando where it was like
it was gonna be real method method, Well not so much, but what
(46:14):
stays what happens in New York.But like I would come in and I'd
be really loose, Like while wewere doing the rehearsals. That's when I'm
learning my line. Yeah. Wow. It never failed me when we filmed,
but I always played with that.There were definitely moments and scenes where
I'm like, say a line andI'm like, no, idea here and
(46:35):
hear the queue and I'd be like, thank god, I knew my life.
But all the time it was somepeople get the cute cards. Usually
the older people get him that.Al Kilmer I did a movie with it.
He got que cards. He gotque cards. But that's no.
That was valid later in his careertoo. But yeah, that's so crazy
because I was I was like Iwould I had. I had to study
my lines. I had to knowhim because I didn't want to go and
(46:58):
not know him. Like you wereable to jump in there. I couldn't
do that. That's what I'm saying. It was at that moment where I
just felt like everything was I didn'tfeel that pressure of yeah, yeah,
so how do you how do youprepare for going from this? Everything's easy,
You're getting the roles, you know, you're the job is easy.
(47:21):
You're not preparing it and it worksand it flows to okay, so now
you are auditioning and not laying jobs. Yes, and that is the Agel
question. Thank you Ellie for askingthat. See, in every other business
in this world, as you getjobs, you climb the ladder. One
job, you go up, youget the next job, and each time
(47:44):
you're getting better and better and younever stop. But in Hollywood, you
could be on the biggest show,be on the biggest movie, and after
that job ends, after your character'sdone, you may not have another job
again for a while. It's notguarantee. You have to keep hustling and
working. It's the only career wherenothing is guaranteed for the entire run of
(48:08):
your life and your career. We'vealways got to keep fighting for the next
thing. So this is a questionfor all actors and for all people that
aren't even in the business. Whatdo you do after you come off a
hit show, winning awards like hedid, winning a Daytime Emmy, and
having trouble booking another role. Thisis America's podcaster Kirkus Serras on my hit
(48:31):
show What's Your Name? Begin thepodcast that is My brother and my Fight
Out Brother, my guest Bret clayWell with my co host Cassandra and Elie
So Joe. That's Part one.Get back with us for part two coming
up. We'll see you then,all right, good night,
Ladies and gentlemen, please take yourseats. The show is about to begin.
(00:26):
So here we go, Here wego, three two one. Welcome
to What Your Name Again? Inthe podcast This America's Podcast or kirkis Serras
coming at you. It's a Thursdayafternoon, and I'm excited because we have
an amazing guest. But I introducedhim in a second because I have a
secret surprise for him that he probablyhas no idea, something we have in
(00:47):
common. That is I'm gonna doon camera. It's gonna be freaking awesome.
When I figured when I found outsomething about you, I was like,
oh my god, it's great.So but let me introduce my co
host over here. I got mycoast across the way. We got coming
and all the way from Newport Beach, California, make the drive from Orange
County in the middle of the day. How commendo, Thank you so much.
We have Cassandra. Welcome Cassandra.Look at look at him in a
(01:10):
business suit. I had like rippedjeans and a T shirt and she walks
into business suit. I'm like,she just made me look bad looking like
that. It's like, that's veryprofessional. So exactly, she just loves.
She leveled it up and then nextto her again, becoming a staple
of the show and a Abbot supporter. Thank you, I love you.
(01:34):
Yeah, you're still so sweet.Oh my gosh, you're gonna make you
blish, but thank you with abrand new haircut over here. And my
favorite thing I love to do whenshe counts is announced her name because I
call her Ellie. So Joe,we'll go, so join the house.
So they got Ellie here is welcome. Thank you so much. And the
(01:56):
reason why our guest is here isbecause they have a relationship and they go
back and their friends. And I'mgonna introduce this guy real quick. But
before I introduce him, I'm gonnado something on camera. And UM,
so I'm gonna I'm gonna let's seehow I gotta do this. I'm gonna
put I'm gonna do I'm just gonnasit right next to you. Has gotten
(02:20):
off on camera first time He's goingHe's gonna camera, I'm gonna sit next
to sitting I've never done this onthe show. Okay, what is happening
right now? So, um giveme hand shake? They are shaking hand
Should we leave the room. Youdon't remember yes truth friends. Yeah,
(02:53):
yes, what you do the topone and then we do the yeah we're
brothers. I'm like, when areyou going on in school? Okay?
Yeah, O, my god,you just call it. I completely forgot
it because it's like five hundred yearsago. That's that is awesome. He
(03:16):
looks shocked and happy. So itwas like it normally doesn't start with a
hand touch. So I put myhand on his leg for those of you
not watching and us listening, andI rubbed his leg and then I shook
his hand. But so we're bothbrothers actually for life. And an attorney
called fid alta theta. That istrue. And when I saw that,
(03:36):
I was like, two, awesome, that's cool. That's freaking really cool.
No, And I always wonder whenI'm around who you might meet him.
You never know because we don't goaround saying hey are you It's not
like I have like an eardrop exactly, like we should have like some mark
on us so we know. Butwe do have secret like I said that
(03:59):
saying to him, I said,are you a FI? And there's he
has to respond, brother in thebond. Yeah, And then I say
what's your purpose? Yeah? Andthen that's how we know. And then
there's a secret handshake that I triedto give him. But there's also another
thing. Do you remember the otherthing? This thing exactly I was going
(04:20):
to do that too. And thenand you know it's funny. The street
I live on is called Morrison.Oh yeah, did you even realize that?
Yeah? So one of our foundingfathers was his name was Morrison sixth
founding bless you who start talking aboutexcited? So you were you were the
(04:42):
taw class, I was Zeta,we were we were newer. What was
your bond number? Eighty one?So so you guys know, um,
the Greek alphabet. Do you rememberthe Greek alphabet? Ready, let's do
it. Ready, I'm gonna doit. Alpha Gamma out to epson,
Zeta, ada, theta, Iowa, Cappa, lamba, moon, new,
(05:03):
zimicron pie ro sign. He waslike he had no you know what
it was is because when we weregoing through pledging, we were forced to
learn it. Like we would begetting taken out in the middle of the
(05:24):
night to like obscure places, andthey would blindfold us and take us out
to an empty field, and allof a sudden, these bright lights would
be on us, and they'd bemaking us like drink beer and like pounding
beer cans and like do that alphabetif you don't know, get push ups,
and they throw stuff at us,like hazing. Is everyone just yet?
(05:44):
So we were more relaxed. Itwas a different every Chester. My
little Brett doesn't know that. Yeah, I mean I know, it was
a long time. Maybe I graduated. I graduated before you. Yes,
I'm old and so well, thenyour brothers right now are very disappointed.
They are they've been ever since Iwas in I almost didn't even make it.
(06:08):
That's now. I'm okay, cool, but that's awesome. So I
just want to make like an actionbecause yes, we are brothers for life.
And then on that topic, whatare your thoughts on like secret societies
because people always um, well,you know, you still haven't introduced me.
Oh oh my gosh, this isBrett. We're gonna get into it.
Well, it's gonna be an anonymousthis is Oh yeah, I'm just
(06:30):
gonna I'm gonna have like the shadingover completely. I'm gonna change your voice.
Yeah. So actually, oh yeah, that's right. His is Brett
play Well, welcome to the studio. Brett, Welcome to the show.
What your name again? My name? And so if you didn't know,
(06:54):
Yeah, so that's that's that's theshow. Guys. We're just gonna he's
a frid out. So. Um, but I did see some more that
you you won a state championship inhigh school and basketball. I did did
what Hi, Dudley High. Yeah, so you guys were actually what state
is that? UM? That isNorth Carolina? North Carolina, and so
the best in the state. Wewere. We were, let's be honest,
(07:15):
I was not the star of theteam, but you're on the team
I played. I chose not toplay my junior year and that was probably
probably one of the top five mistakesin my life. Yeah, because I
just I just you still regret itkind of, Yeah, because I might.
It was it was like a dynastythere. Ye. So Brendan Haywood,
who played for the U for theUM at least asked before we just
(07:46):
not part of the y. Igive more than so. Like Brendan Haywood
who played for the we won anNBA championship. He was our center.
We were the number one ranked publicmy senior year. Really you were a
really but I sat the bench inmy ninth grade in tenth grade year,
and I just kind of got tiredof that. So I played my junior
(08:07):
year. Okay, so the mysenior year, I kind of sat the
bench again. But so you tookyour junior off and that kid, because
I just was tired, Like,yeah, I broke my hand in eighth
grade, I broke my arm inninth grade or vice versa. Yeah,
and so I just never could andI'm the only white kid to ever play
basketball there. Ever. Oh that'shistory of thought. Like I'll show you.
I'll send you a let's see,it's even it's like, I'll bring
(08:31):
it up, but yeah, I'llsend it to you because that'd be awesome
everybody. That's really funny. It'soh my gosh, because I was just
assuming it was a made majority whiteschool. No, there was, like
there was like fifteen white kids inthe whole school. Wow. But so
even though you rode the bench,you still I played every sport, let's
be I was the athlete of theyear my senior year. Yeah, because
(08:52):
I played football, I played soccer, I ran across country, I ran
track, like well, so youwere out there competing with everybody like like,
but basketball. I was like,I was the only guy on the
team that couldn't dunk. Just toput it in perspective, fifteen guys lay
applied. It's like we're gonna bedoing the dun Okay, guys, we're
gonna be doing the dunk drill nowalready getta line. But as as with
(09:15):
life, everything um leads to somethingelse. Everything serves a purpose. My
acting career was based on basketball,Like I got my launch because I couldn't
play basketball. Oh look at thatcircle play and he just said he's an
actor. So speaking of being anactor, he was a lot of people
will know him. He played TimSmith on a on a show called One
(09:37):
Tree Hill. That was that wasa very successful to me. I think
that was one of the early showsthat was the young, hot twenties type
of cast. That's when CW reallystarted. I mean there was the started
actually for the Little Trivia first seasonon One Trial was on WB Yeah.
Oh, because CW in the middleof it. So I always got confused.
(10:00):
Is the two kind of the samefew job? Yeah? They got
Rid of the Frog? Remember thatthat frog? What are you guys marketing
too? I know cartoons? Theyhad One Tree Hill it's like, what
what is marketing too? It's likelike an old like jazz musician in New
(10:20):
Orleans. And then it's exactly,did you guys? Did you guys?
Do you ladies ever watched One TreeHill? I didn't. You didn't know.
I'm gonna go back. I'm gonnago back. And it's great.
This show is going really well.So far, no one knows people who
he is. Yeah, it's great, but but the thing is, there's
millions Please leave my lower third.You're still face is going to be blanked
(10:46):
out this whole job. But believeme, he really was on the show
once I was, so that showwas very successful. It did really well.
How everyone a lot of people wentthere and became you know, did
bigger things that show? And thenno you didn't, but hey, um
so. And then another thing hedid was he played a guy named Kyle
(11:09):
Lewis on One Life to Live fora few years. And what's amazing about
that is you want a glad Awardfor that? Noah, And for those
you don't know, that's a gamelesbian this show. Yeah yeah, well
I thought your character because your characteryou played a Garca, was because of
the storyline like okay, it wasso me and my co star. Oh
(11:31):
yeah, oh cool, and so, um, how how long were you
on there? U two years?And instantly you knew going in there the
storyline, Oh you changed half hiredme for a different role. No way,
did a little little bait and switch. Give me, give me to
come to New York. Three monthsin they're like, hey, by the
way, he's not gonna say yesif we tell him now, I mean
(11:52):
not gonna say that's exactly what theydid. But yeah they did. I
auditioned for another role. It wasmore like Nelson. I don't know if
you remember. It was like ateacher with a drug problem. Yeah.
I love the role. And thenum, we did a few days of
that and they called me up andthey're like, look, we love you.
They just the chemistry between you andthe lead girl. She was actually
(12:13):
eighteen, and they were like itjust looks like I look too old,
is what they told me. They'relike, but we want to keep you
around. We're gonna we're gonna developa role for you. But and then
two months later, very pretty sowe have a role just for you.
Yeah. And then they were like, well, now that you're hearing you
got an apartment. This is whatwe're doing. Like, uh huh,
okay, let me think about that. That's awesome. Yeah, that's cool.
(12:35):
Well good, And then you're thatlasted a few years and what you
worked a few days a week?Yeah, you work about three days a
week and you got a lot ofthe rest of the time. Yeah.
I was in New York for ayear on a soap. Best year ever
had it was. It was prettygood. It worked two days a week
max, and just the rest ofthe time just saw the city experiences.
I balanced out the gay scenes equallyNormalca Sanza, did you watch One Life
(13:01):
to Live? I did, butnot during his time. Yes, up,
I literally watched it because of mygrandmother. I mean, do you
do anything other than disrespect me onthe show? That's that's what her job
is. I feel bad. Didyou even know who you're showing up to
(13:30):
talk to? Are you an actress? Because you need to get better line
just say, yeah, I lovethis show you but I was being honest
true podcast Ever, Yes, Iwant to to find I'm interested in regardless,
that's the thing. Regardless of that, I'm interested in you, even
if you are that more genuine Yes, that's not Hollywood, right, it's
(13:54):
real life. It's real. Heis making up ground now. Yes,
she is way back. She doesn'tcare if you're a nobody. I don't.
I don't know at least. Ohmy gosh, so what I did?
(14:15):
You guys are so I'm gonna benice to you. No, no,
don't be nice. I'm learning aboutyou for you, just like the
listeners, like we're learning together.Yes I am. You didn't know.
I'm like, I'm always Clark Kinn. I'm never Superman, like I go
(14:35):
on the phone booth and I'm justmaking it like shit. We even have
people, Navius. Does anybody outthere want to take the shouts? Nobody
knows who I am? You geta piece of paper for it? Thank
god you can read otherwise talk aboutYeah, I want to go back and
watch all those shows. You shouldn't. No, you should you should,
(14:58):
because come on, it's especially OnceHill. That's history, man, that's
it. Well, One Life toLive, I'd be real obviously One Tree
Hill was fluff. One Life toLive. The great thing about that is,
like I all jokes aside, likeI didn't know what I was going
to be playing. It took melike a week to think through that because
I was a younger dude. Itwas a different time in my career.
On the same time, like inthe first three months of One Life to
(15:22):
Live, I auditioned for a BlackSwan with Darren Aronovski and I was on
hold for the role that Sebastian Stanactually got nice. And I was also
doing Dollhouse, which was a JoshWheaton show on Fox, which I was
going to bring up. So Iwas doing all of these at the same
time, and it was like theI was on hold for six weeks for
Black Swan. That was gonna belike the role the life changer, right,
And so I was like thinking,like, what are the rights?
(15:43):
Did you realize at the time whatyou were on hold for? Like,
oh yeah, I mean I wasin a dark room with the blinds pulled
and it's Darren Aronovski out there,and he like, all it was the
craziest audition I've ever had because Iread the scene and I'm in New York,
I haven't really lived there long.I like, it's just a whole
new vibe. And all he saysis that right after I do a scene,
he goes, great, do itagain, but do less and I
(16:06):
was like, okay, that's that'san interesting note. Okay, let me
do it. And I'm halfway throughthe scene and he goes he just interrupts
me and he goes do less,like very direct, and I'm like,
holy, it's like yeah. Andthen and then I read it, and
then at the end he goes,he goes, Okay, how tall are
you? And I go I'm likefive ten, five eleven, and he
(16:29):
goes, you're five nine, aren'tyou? And I'm like, oh,
I was like sure, I'm fivenine. He goes, good, because
we're not hiring anybody over five ninebecause Natalie Portman was short. He goes
like basically told me in the roomthat I got the part. And then
over six weeks, the way Hollywoodworks, yeah, on the film,
they packaged it, they got theiractor in which Sebastian stand who's now the
(16:51):
Winter Soldier. It's like that's howHollywood works. But at that time with
the soap, I'm like, Idon't know if I want to do this.
But then I thought through it andI realized, like the an actor's
job is just to tell the truth. Pulling it back to that it's just
to tell the truth. This whenwe started that role, gay marriage was
not legal anywhere in the United States. When we finished that storyline, it
was legal in like five or sixstates, California, New York, and
(17:15):
we were we were interviewed all thetime, Like I was kind of you
were at the forefront, the forefrontof that because we were the first gay
love scene. We were the firstgay scene in the history of daytime.
We were the first gay love scene, like an actual love making scene in
the history of television ever like DaytimePrimetime. Wow. So it was like
really, you know, we weredoing all these interviews and it was it
(17:37):
was me being not mature enough forthat moment. Yeah, struggling privately for
some of that because I had toI had to disown family, like not
disowned, but like I had tostop talking to people because I'm from North
Carolina. Yeah, people didn't understand, well I was going to ask you,
so being from kind of the South, yea mental mind state and Middle
America's huge in the soaps. Firstof all, that was the big family
(18:00):
were putting it. Did get itbecause some of my family did. Some
of my family didn't. Yeah,it's how did they respond to you?
Um, they love me? Theysupport me. They knew I was heterosexual,
but gay marriage back then was justsuch a hot topic. Yeah,
you know, two thousand and eight, it feels like so long. It
seems like it was they did.They feel like you're doing something not right
(18:25):
by trying to normalize this like thissome of my family, UM, I
think believe that that did not believein gay marriage. And our whole storyline
we got married on screen, um, like we had. I had one
take and I was like, Iwas, I mean, there's there's moments
where, like, you know,I they let us start to really control
the role a little bit and makeit our own. So there was this
(18:48):
one I was supposed to marry thisThere was this huge, like uh public
gay marriage scene in the show wherelike multiple couples men and women because the
you know, the the other twoactors that I worked with were gay,
The head writer was gay. Um, other people involved in the show.
So it was an important storyline topeople. I was the only head of
(19:10):
a sexual one. Yeah, andit um and I broke away to tell
the guy that I really loved,like, you know, confess that.
And it was like such an emotionalmoment and scene for me and it actually
ended up being a powerful scene fora lot of other people as well.
Um, it was just it's somethingI believed it, Yeah, you know,
and I believed it's It's very rarethat as an actor you get a
(19:30):
chance to um play a role thatimpacts the real world. Yes, we're
always living in fantasy where we're makingum we're making fiction real, right,
But in this moment, fiction wasaffecting um our society in a real way
and that was kind of had ahuge part and actually changing where things of
(19:53):
God. I mean, we werelike in USA today, and because because
that's such a huge show, wewere all over the place where people watched
that show, so all of asudden you opened people's eyes to it.
That happened like we were before ModernFamily and all these things that are progressive
exactly. And that's honest. That'sthe last role I ever played, Like
I have not acted since that moment. Yeah, I took a break,
(20:15):
but it ended up you know,it was it was going to be a
short hiatus. I mean, II admire you for doing that because you
know, early on in my career, I wouldn't have done that, Yeah,
because I would have been worried Iwould have been put in a box.
Not oh it's gay, but I'mgonna be it actually happened, Yeah,
I didn't. I mean I don'thave physical proof of it. Yeah,
(20:36):
But I came back and I hada lot of opportunities still, and
I was always like right there,you know, it was it always felt
like the career was like one auditionaway, like the Blacks, one thing,
like it would lots of those Dallas. I was really close for Jesse
Metcalf's role, like different shows.I was right there. Yeah, and
then I just felt like, youknow, I just needed a break.
(20:56):
Yeah, I needed to breathe.I had some other concept that I wanted
to pursue that ended up, youknow, taking over my life for the
next few years. Well, let'stell people about that, because the point
of the show is actually educate peoplethat are not in the business, but
what we go through and also newactors understand what you're about to get into
people that knew in a town.Now, let's talk about getting close on
(21:17):
things, because that's gonna be that'sfrustrating. I mean to get to be
right there on something so huge numeroustimes, to be right there and then
it doesn't happen, It doesn't numberon your psyche over and over, over
and over, over and over,just getting so close. But your job
is your job is the rejection.Yeah, being on set is just for
fun. Yeah, you know yourjob is to go in, day in
(21:40):
and day out, you know,three times a day, drive all over
LA. Now it's a little different. Self taping has completely changed the industry,
But we used to. I meanI would load my car up and
I'd have golf clubs in the trunkor basketball shoes in the trunk, because
if I had a four pm auditionon the other side of town, I'm
not driving back for hours just toget so I would stop at UCLA play
basketball like I just I would stopat a Part three course and just play
(22:03):
like it becomes your full day job, just to go out and hear you
didn't get this, you didn't getthis, you didn't get this. Um.
But also in a way, you'realso only as good as your representation.
Yes, and you don't represent yourself. And somebody that went to school
like I got I have an architecturedegree. I was an architect before I
was on one trehol like I wasworking at a firm like I. I
(22:23):
had other things I felt like Iwas capable of. And back then,
um, actors have a little more. You know, we were before social
media one treil was before all,so you didn't have a way to build
your own brand. But um,it was it was just a different flow
and you couldn't. You couldn't.Like I had an idea and a concept.
(22:45):
I was, you know, Iguess we'll get into it. But
I was really far ahead of gaming. Yeah, and I had a concept
I wanted to explore in the gamingindustry. And my managers were like,
you're an actor. Yeah. I'mlike, but but I could do this
and this is gonna be worth alot of money if we go this route.
They're like, no, you're inNowadays, actors have their own all
their own businesses. Yeah, they'rewriting, they're directing, they're acting.
(23:07):
They got social media there, whichthen used to be back that you're only
an actor. Yeah, because Iactually would have people to take tell me
advice, don't spread yourself too thin, just be an actor. Yea to
only do that, and I waslike, okay, but I want to
write too, No just fact.Yeah, but now you have to do
as much as you can, YEP. So they used to not take you
seriously if you said you were anactor, that no one took you serious
for other things, for other thingslike I The reason I took a break
(23:30):
was I just I was. Iwas exhausted with the puppetry. Um,
I got fired from one life tolive with literally my Emmy Riel in my
hand. You got fired? Well, I mean whatever they with. The
last last scene we ever filmed wasus winning adoption of a baby Me and
my we we were in court,me and my partner. Um uh.
(23:55):
His last name was fish officer fish. Um they we we won custody of
a baby baby girl. Last singeevering? Did you know that was going to
be the end of the I wentin to turn in my Emmy real because
I was prenominated for an Emmy andI had it in my hand and EP
calls me in and he goes tomorrow. He goes to day's your last day
on set? And I'm like,I'm supposed to film tomorrow, and he
(24:17):
goes, sorry, tomorrow's your lastday on set? No freaking And he
didn't say. You didn't ask,you were just like all right, I
mean what for? Like what whatis any question going to do for me.
That's what she told me. Yeah, And the show was canceled like
three months later, you know,obviously because they got rid of me.
But but I mean when I startedin New York, five soaps were in
(24:42):
New York and when I left,we were the last one. Yeah,
there was an exodus because it wastoo expensive and a lot of them.
You know, there's only General Hospitalin days of our lives. I have
a lot of friends on soap.It was a great, great job,
great training. Um. I regretit because I didn't really become a good
actor until One Life to Live becauseI had to play a role that one
(25:02):
Tree Hill. I was just comedicrelief. One Life to Live, I
like really started to explore a characterto them and really really stepped outside of
myself and hit emotional notes that Iwasn't maybe able to hit nice to you
don't hear them a lot. Usuallyhear it the other way around. Yeah.
Wow, So I so I Iregret it because and I almost I
just uh, I just started auditioningagain. So about last six months of
(25:29):
retirement, little things here and there, I got a manager like I was.
I was really close to a rolelike a few weeks ago and I
just had surgery and my body wasn'tin shape. They needed a shirtless pick
because I've been doing and it wasa yoga instructure. It was recurring on
(25:49):
this nice show. And I'm like, so I have just started to get
back into okay because I'm never gonnabe Zekielofanaki. Yeah, I know what
I They don't want Zach you know, Jonah Hill. They want something different,
so so I may I I like, I feel like I have unfinished
business in front again. Yeah,but I also feel like I accomplished a
(26:11):
lot in the last ten years.I just feel, Yeah, we're gonna
We're gonna really break into because that'swhat I love about this episode in your
story is that you've created a lifeafter acting, and that's what I want
everybody understanding. A moment. We'regonna get that. We have so many
things in common because gaming, thegaming industry was huge for me, and
I'll tell you about it a littlebit. But you I was also on
(26:32):
Dollhouse. I was in the pilotthe whole in the Yeah, I know,
you did a bunch of episodes Dollhouseand then the pilot. Were you
in the pilot. Yeah, ohyou were What did you play? I
was Matt. I was the veryopening scene. Oh that was you.
Oh my gosh, that's I wasthe guy. The whole episode was about
my character because my my daughter gotkidnapped and then Eliza's working with me to
(26:56):
find my daughter. That was greatbecause Josh had all this bad press lately.
I'm like I did when I workedwith him. I can't speak to
everyone's really you know, yeah,exactly, every mark on the Creator or
One Trio. I had a lotof bad things come out about him,
and it's like, you know,you don't know every aspect of every human
exactly. You can only go fromyour experience. Yeah, yeah, Josh,
(27:18):
I really, I mean I auditionedfor that. This was another fun
I had no idea Josh was inthe room, but I really like I
got the role and I'm like andthey're like, Josh loved you, and
I'm like, where was he?What? Like where the hat and the
bat? I'm like, that's justhow oblivious I was at that time.
I was like, I gotta goto the club. I don't know who's
in the room exactly, who evenI didn't even know who he was yeah,
(27:41):
Like to me, I was like, Jos, who's the dude?
Yeah, I mean I didn't exactly, but then all of a sudden,
like this guy's cool. Was agreat experience. Yeah. And so before
we get out of your acting career, I just want again people to understand,
now, what was your experience inthe early years now that you're getting
back into it, but your earlyyears, I want I want to understand
(28:03):
what did you have a did youhustle? Was it a lot of hustle
when you first got to LA likethe grind. I got lucky because I
was hired out of North Carolina,Oh worry for the pilot. So I
did Dawson's Creek. I got outof college at NC State, I moved
to Wilmington. I gave myself athree year window, you know, like
yeah, because I did. Igot a minor in theaters. Yeah.
I quit my architecture job two weekswhere I graduated because my professor in theater
(28:26):
was like, you should try this, and I'd never considered it. Yeah,
because I was a nerd girl.Yeah, I was kind of a
nerd like I just so I neverthought of like I did theater since I
was five years old. I didchildren's theater. I did competition theater in
high school. I just loved acting. Yeah, I never thought of it
as a career. I'm from NorthCarolina. Like, yeah, it's the
furthest thing exactly. And he's like, you should try this, give it
(28:47):
a try. And I was like, like the all the stars aligned.
I moved to Wilmington with two fraternitybrothers, I X I pad So.
I hustled in Wilmington. I padI actually was an extra and Patch Adams
Oh Pata because I because I wantedto see, Like I wanted to start
at the bottom, Like if Ican spend fourteen hours one day on set
(29:07):
in a woolf sweater in the middleof summer in North Carolina, then cool,
Like that's the worst job there is. Yes. Then I p eight
on some things in Wilmington. Igot an agent through that. I auditioned
and it happened really quick. Igot Dawson's Creek really quick, and then
they were doing the pilot for OneTree Hill. I auditioned, um crazy
(29:29):
story. I was out of town. I got back in casting agents called
me in audition. There was alreadysomebody else's picture up on the wall.
For Tim, no, just thatthings went my way, but they already
had their guy friends with the guythat. Oh I want people to hear
this though. This is what peopleneed to understand. See. The only
other career that I can I tryto compare what we do too is professional
(29:51):
sports. It's a business like oneday you're their favorite, the next day
someone else is coming. You're gone. Sorry you're going to another team.
Sorry you're fired, You're off theshows. Sorry we cast somebody else.
Yep. I mean this dude whohad that role was told, oh no
more, it's not even I don'tthink he even knew he had the role.
Yeah, I like told him laterbecause I knew him. His name
is Mitch Aikins, like old cooldude. We became really close. He
(30:11):
was in Glory Road. We becamefriends. Um. His picture was up
on the wall when I went in. But part of the story was I
came in and read and they werelike, oh, that was great,
we loved it. I was like, I knew they were having open basketball
tryouts the next day on Saturday forlike all the extras, because it was
a basketball show when we first started. It became something else. But I
was like, well, can Ido you want me to go to that
(30:33):
he's They were like, well,that's for extras, it's not really for
you. But in my head,I'm like, oh, like, this
is a basketball show. My characteris the point guard of the team.
Is it cool if I just comeby? And they were like yeah,
that's all right whatever. And thewe're doing like warm up. There's like
two hundred people there. You know, there are everybody's trying to be just
a you know, get a balljust yeah, there are a lot of
ballers. But I grew up withballers. Yeah I was a ball Yeah
(30:56):
to be modest um so I butlike I was, I just felt myself.
I was twenty two years old.Yeah. And we're doing three on
three like warm like drills where youlike three on two and then come back
the other way. And the firsttime I had the ball, I'm going
down and I fake a pass thisway and I go behind my back to
the guy over here and he makesa layout and like everybody's like ah,
(31:18):
And as I'm backing up, Ibecause I had auditioned, I knew the
producers and they were up in thestands and I'm just pointing up at it's
like I can act, but youdidn't know that some guys on the show
and I'm not gonna say names.Yeah, um, we're not good basket
(31:38):
to know that, Like when you'refilming and now I know this being older,
Like as a producer, when you'refilming and you got twelve fourteen hour
days in a basketball gym and yougotta we would run plays. Yeah,
it's choreography, so like things haveto happen perfectly for the cameras to catch.
I'm like, you're in a hotgym, there's conditioning, Like it's
a lot to know that the guywho has the ball in his oh my
(32:00):
god, trust him. That's well. Yeah, how many times have you
watched a show or movie with basketballand it's awful? You could like the
way their form because I'm I'm prettyI'm a pretty good baller too, but
like the form is bad, theway they shoot. You're like, these
guys don't play basketball and it totallytakes me out of it. But also
like with my life, I likeI connect the dots. My dad didn't
(32:22):
that plumbing electricity till he was sixteenor seventeen really, and he grew up
in very rural Kentucky. He wasthe first in his family to go to
college on a baseball and basketball scholarsand his principle in middle school actually held
him back a year so he wouldgrow so he could start on his high
school team his freshman year, sohe had a better chance to get out
(32:45):
of So it was like, there'sthis whole story where then my dad drilled
me every day when I got homefrom from elementary school. I had to
throw one hundred pitches and shoot onehundred free throws every day after elementary school.
So then full you know, youcome full circle, and now this
moment, all of that two generationsled to like me being able to play
(33:05):
basketball to get this role. AndI also now know why you have your
work ethic. Yeah, that's it, that's for work ethic. Well,
most athletes later in life work ethic. You'll never usually meet a successful athlete.
A lot of times I don't havea great work ethic because that's all
we did, you kids, allthe stuff. Curry shoots a thousand three
pointers a day. Yeah a thousand. Yeah, Like that's insane, that's
(33:29):
insane. But as you were tellingthe story, I literally have goose bumps.
It's like to to like have yourdad basketball be the thing that pulls
him out, and then basketball bethe thing that pulls you out, that
you know pulls you up. Thatthat's just like such a family legacy.
And my mom was a teacher.She got me in the theater. She
(33:51):
was the one, like she wasthe arts. Oh God, I give
them credit. Like everything that hashappened is happening. And you know you
said something that's so important. Ithink to kind of like reiterate, is
that extra step, that extra mile. Like a lot of times I feel
like, especially in the entertainment industry, we put our faith in somebody else's
(34:14):
hands and then we go sit inour corner and we're like, I hope
they picked me. I hope theypicked me. I hope they picked me.
And but what you did was different. You're like, Okay, so
this is what I can do.And then I'm going to go that extra
site even more. Because I whenI went out of town, I knew
that they were auditioning for this.I wrote a letter and took somebody out
(34:35):
to a basketball court and had themfilm me playing basketball, and I sent
that to the producers. I don'tremember. It's the fact that you did
the work. But and then whenI was driving back to town, I
called the casting agents and said,are you still auditioning? So, like
you know, they had they hadfinished auditioning. They just let me audition
that final day. I have aquestion that that those actions that you hook
(35:00):
to me, that's like thinking likea producer. You were thinking like a
producer. How did you know todo that so young and think about production
and background? I was naive inbelief, like I just always believe like
this is something I can encapsulate it. Now being older, is I realize
that the only times I ever failedis when I gave up. If you
(35:21):
don't give up, you don't fail. It's just not happening on the time
frame that you imagine, right,Yeah, we set goals for ourselves and
we put we put you know,it's this is going to happen by then
or by then. But like peoplelike what is Samuel Jackson didn't get his
first speaking role to his forty oneyeah, something like that, It's not
failure if it happens later than youexpects was over forty yeah, And that's
(35:45):
so that's so true. Is notcontinuing in some ways I could like I
would I'm persistent, yeah, andI always have been. I always,
like, you know, there wereso many things in my life that people
didn't believe, Like even make inthe basketball team at Udley is an accomplishment,
right and because other people haven't doneit, and I just I've just
(36:06):
never been one that listens to thedoubt in my head. I only listened
to the encouragement. And that's that'sreally different than a lot of actors showing
up to auditions, because most actorsshow up with doubt in their head,
you know, in the fear ofrejections. So that's very different for that
young of an age. It takesa lot to understand. But once you
once you have this epiphany, it'sempowering. But it I think I had
(36:30):
a little too much of this tobe really honest, but I knew that
when I walked in the room,that was my times. That's the best
thing I've ever heard, because Ilike, like it was like it was
perfect, like the Sports Center highlight. I still remember it. I remember
what the wall looked like, Iremember the banners, like it could not
(36:52):
have gone more perfectly for the youknow, most of the kids there were
African American yeah, you know,I'm still the minority, but this is
my element. Yeah, I wouldto four years. You know historically black,
Well, that's why you weren't intimidatedbecause you had you always had to
fight to keep it. And literally, like my freshman year at Dudley,
like there, I mean there wasa guy beside my my locker beside mine
(37:15):
that had a gun in his locker. Yeah, I went to a hood.
Was the horn rose in my inmy in my hair during my time
there? I acclimated, But Ishouldn't even call it corner rose. That's
offensive. Um I had rose?But um, do you show up differently
to auditions now? So when youwent back to acting recently, Like,
(37:35):
do you show up? I've beenin an audition in so long, but
I've the self tapes, right,I mean, do you feel differently when
you're doing it or when you wentback to versus how you were? Like?
What's different? I would say this, I don't know if I necessarily
feel different. I have less dependenceon it because it's not my primary source
of income anymore. But I stillfelt the same way back then, where
(37:57):
it never Um, I I didn'tgo to my audition for Twilight like I
didn't like the script. Wow,even though like that's twice I had friends
in that that I'm like, Ireally wish i'd gone to that idea.
Oh my god, it was Kellen'srole. I think, Um, Kellen,
I don't remember. Jasper was myfriend Jackson. We were an asking
(38:19):
acting class together. He's amazing actor. I'm surprised he never made it further.
But like, um, I thinkit was Kellen's role. Like the
Yeah, I don't remember. Ijust didn't like the script. I was
like, I don't want to doa vampire movie. It was stupid.
But I I, UM, whatI realized in the same now is like
that's and I tell this to anybodythat acts that's wants to talk about it,
(38:42):
is like, that's your time.You know the you have five minutes,
you have ten minutes. Just ownit. And I loved going in
the room because I was really personable. I would I would become friends with
casting AIGs, I would talk,we would kick it like we would.
I would make sure that they likedme. And first, if you're gonna
be on set with somebody for twomonths, for three months, for however
(39:05):
long, first thing I want toknow is that I'm gonna, I'm gonna
like them on set. Yes,and I and people knew you were gonna
enjoy me on set. I'm gonnaknow the pas. I'm gonna know the
set Pa. I'm gonna I'm gonnaknow the gaffers. I'm gonna talk.
I'm gonna you know. I'd havepoker nights at my house during One Tree
Hill, like to bring the crewover, like we'd be Yeah, I
wanted it's a team. Yeah,so don't ever be bigger than the team.
(39:30):
I think is a sports metaphor there. Um, But I just I
just love going in and just owningmy time in there, and so when
I left, i'd sometimes feel likemaybe I didn't do my best. My
problem was always in my preparation.It was never was when I was in
the room. I was really Iwould I would cold read in a way
(39:51):
a lot of auditions and I wasmore of that time, and that works
a lot for being on set,doesn't work as well for being on an
in an audition because they're not givingyou much back. But I was really
good at every take was going tobe different because if the other actor gave
me something different, I was goingto take that and give it back to
you differently. So I was goingto be malleable. I'm probably looking back,
(40:13):
I would say I'm more prepared nowas an actor. I come in
having stronger choices and feeling more confidentin my interpretation of the role now than
maybe I did. But don't youthink to a lack of desperation, Not
that you're desperate, but you knowhow when you're not relying on income and
you're not relying on that source tomake a living, that lack of desperation
(40:35):
when you're in a room. Ithink people sense that because a lot of
actors, musicians, people, theyshow up to something and it's like it
has to be this because that's howyou're surviving. But when you don't have
to, you don't have everything writingon it. There's freedom in that with
your creativity because you can be exactlywhat you want to be because it doesn't
matter right, You're going to dowhat you want because at least you can
live with it. Then I thinkI got really lucky having booked a role.
(40:59):
I moved to La already on ashow and a few we'd already done
one season a One Tree Hill.Nobody like that's such a rare thing.
So I never really felt that.I always felt like if I don't get
this whatever, like I was livinga good life, probably more than I
should have. So for those ofyou watching and listening, yeah, that
doesn't happen. Don't come here thinkingbook your one Tree Hill right away.
(41:22):
You've got to put in the workthough. But what's what I'm hearing though
here over and over is the workethic. Yeah, putting in the work
ethic. And that's what's important foreverybody to learn, is that once you
get here, you gotta keep grindingand you got to put it, put
it in. It's somebody that Iknow that succeeded is just succeeded out of
the like you know, the whimlike they they grind, they work.
(41:43):
The acting class, I can say, job, the job is everything that
you don't see. Yeah, andyou're it's a craft. You should love
it, you shouldn't. I neverdid it for the money. It never
mattered to me. You love it. I love being in the moment.
Now. Now, let's let's explainreal quick speaking about the craft. What's
(42:04):
the difference for the audience when hedid once Free Hill, that shot with
one camera, and soaps are donewith three. So explain the difference for
you, your process or your experiencewith one camera as opposed to a soap
that's three cameras. Um, Imean the cameras don't really matter or they
I mean, I guess the moreand more advanced you get as an actor,
(42:25):
you understand the difference performance when it'sa master versus when it's a close
up. You understand how to changeyour performance in those moments to give the
director what he wants or the audiencewhat you know, what you want.
I think what was more is thepace of the you know. And on
(42:47):
One Tree Hill we might shoot sevenpages a day. On One Life to
Live we shoot one hundred and twenty. So there are you. You learn
little tricks of the trade in soapoperas where if you one another take,
you would mess up a line onpurpose if you didn't like your because if
you get the lines out clean,they're they're they're moving on. Like that
(43:09):
scene I told you about where Iconfess my love at the marriage, that
was one take. They gave meone take. I cried. I was
like, can I do it again? They were like no, we got
to move on. Yeah, andlike there, and there were times where
you're at the end of the dayand something's gone wrong. People, you
know, people get fired like thatsoaps. I mean, we had a
I remember distinctly this this woman cameon for a contract role and she the
(43:32):
next day there was a different actressthere, like she just couldn't get her
lines out, and they were like, we just can't do it. They
also raised them from the dead too. Oh yeah. They filmed down one
side of the of the stage,set by set by set by set in
the morning, and then it's lunchand they're filming the other set side the
afternoon, and they're rebuilding the otherside in between takes for the next morning.
(43:59):
And then when you leave it atnight, there's a whole crew waiting
outside to come in overnight and changeall the sense. It is a twenty
four seven machine. And so wedid one. So one of those days
where we were behind, we werethe end of the day and they were
over time. So the producers cometo us and they're like, look,
we guys, we really need youguys to crush it because they're paying everybody
time and a half like we were. And we did forty one pages of
(44:22):
dialogue in an hour and a half, like that's come in and we block
it in the You block it whenyou come in, so when you come
to set, you already know boom, boom, boom, hit your marks,
hit marks, hit marks, andwe would just get we get the
lines out, boom, move iton, get the lines out, and
that's what it goes out to theworld. So people say, also,
b acting is blah blah blah,but it's being cut in real time too.
(44:44):
They're going camera. That's why everylook at almost every actor you've heard
of from a certain generation, andthey have been on soaps. Brad Pitt
was on sooms. Meg Ryan camefrom soaps like like everybody he came from.
So I've done every sip that existed. Tommy Lee Jones was on Yeah,
I've been on every single one.They're the best actors. They just
(45:07):
they're type cat like some of theactors are the best actors and you move
on and then all of a suddenyou give us time, you know,
you give I remember going I wentto when I was living the crazy life.
One of the weekends, I wentto Vegas and we were Michael Bay
was with our group and that waslike crazy. Yeah, we were like
a dinner with Michael Bay and it'swhen he was filming the first Transformers and
(45:28):
I'm saying, he's like how manyyou know. I'm saying, oh,
we do one hundred twenty pages ina day, and he's like, we
do three. Yeah, exactly.It's a completely different world. It's crazy.
It's a lot of yes. Andso yeah, for those of you
listen, it's an episode of Dayand you come in there and it's just
boom, boom boom, And mostactors is the first job you're gonna get.
Isn't it a whole thing too withmemorizing the lines, because a lot
(45:51):
of actors can't or not very muchmemorize lines. And they say that that's
why I was always screting that linebecause I never won. I never Preparation
was always my weakness. I neverlike, you know, I wasn't that
British style. I was more oflike the Marlon Brando where it was like
it was gonna be real method method, Well not so much, but what
(46:14):
stays what happens in New York.But like I would come in and I'd
be really loose, Like while wewere doing the rehearsals. That's when I'm
learning my line. Yeah. Wow. It never failed me when we filmed,
but I always played with that.There were definitely moments and scenes where
I'm like, say a line andI'm like, no, idea here and
(46:35):
hear the queue and I'd be like, thank god, I knew my life.
But all the time it was somepeople get the cute cards. Usually
the older people get him that.Al Kilmer I did a movie with it.
He got que cards. He gotque cards. But that's no.
That was valid later in his careertoo. But yeah, that's so crazy
because I was I was like Iwould I had. I had to study
my lines. I had to knowhim because I didn't want to go and
(46:58):
not know him. Like you wereable to jump in there. I couldn't
do that. That's what I'm saying. It was at that moment where I
just felt like everything was I didn'tfeel that pressure of yeah, yeah,
so how do you how do youprepare for going from this? Everything's easy,
You're getting the roles, you know, you're the job is easy.
(47:21):
You're not preparing it and it worksand it flows to okay, so now
you are auditioning and not laying jobs. Yes, and that is the Agel
question. Thank you Ellie for askingthat. See, in every other business
in this world, as you getjobs, you climb the ladder. One
job, you go up, youget the next job, and each time
(47:44):
you're getting better and better and younever stop. But in Hollywood, you
could be on the biggest show,be on the biggest movie, and after
that job ends, after your character'sdone, you may not have another job
again for a while. It's notguarantee. You have to keep hustling and
working. It's the only career wherenothing is guaranteed for the entire run of
(48:08):
your life and your career. We'vealways got to keep fighting for the next
thing. So this is a questionfor all actors and for all people that
aren't even in the business. Whatdo you do after you come off a
hit show, winning awards like hedid, winning a Daytime Emmy, and
having trouble booking another role. Thisis America's podcaster Kirkus Serras on my hit
(48:31):
show What's Your Name? Begin thepodcast that is My brother and my Fight
Out Brother, my guest Bret clayWell with my co host Cassandra and Elie
So Joe. That's Part one.Get back with us for part two coming
up. We'll see you then,all right, good night,
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