July 13, 2021 • 44 mins
Byron Lane was Carrie Fisher's personal assistant for many years. He got closer to her and experienced her intimate day to day life, like no other. He sits with America's Podcaster, Kurt Caceres, to share his journey, that of which is all detailed in his newly released book, A Star is Bored. His first encounter with her mother, Debbie Reynolds, he described her in real life, just as she was on screen, not an actor, but a movie star. Byron has written screenplays and musicals for stage, but he says by far that writing a book is the toughest and most demanding. He describes his process to writing and helps others understand the different approaches and techniques for those also interested in telling their own stories. It can be a daunting task, like Stephen King once said, "it's like crossing the Atlantic ocean in a bathtub". He finishes with the unexpected passing of Princess Leia, it's impact on him, it's impact on generations, and it's impact on the world.
XX
Please Follow and Subscribe to the Podcast.
Email: podcast@provenanceroom.com
Youtube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRF42UoBNLo9DXv5BYQQCqg
Host Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/kurt_caceres/
Podcast Twitter:
https://twitter.com/wyna_podcast
Podcast Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/What.Your.Name.Again/
Podcast Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/wyna.podcast/
Production Company Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/provenance_room/
Website:
https://www.provenanceroom.com/wyna
XX
Please Follow and Subscribe to the Podcast.
Email: podcast@provenanceroom.com
Youtube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRF42UoBNLo9DXv5BYQQCqg
Host Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/kurt_caceres/
Podcast Twitter:
https://twitter.com/wyna_podcast
Podcast Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/What.Your.Name.Again/
Podcast Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/wyna.podcast/
Production Company Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/provenance_room/
Website:
https://www.provenanceroom.com/wyna
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Ladies and gentlemen, please take yourseats. The show is about to begin,
and here we go with my boyJason Charles Miller on the music.
(00:23):
This is America's podcaster Kurkis Saras onmy show which nimp in the podcast,
my co host at least so jomy the co host, Tony Frost,
and our guests. We got ByronLane here. If you hear you probably
heard part one and you hear parttwo. This guy. We spent some
years with one of the most legendarytheme of beings on the planet that grace
(00:46):
the Hollywood stage and screen. Wellhas created an icon of a character for
decades to come. Her name wasCarry Fisher, and he wrote a book
title This Star Is Bored. Thisis Part two talk about his life with
Carrie Fisher. Talk about the daysin and outs, the ups and downs
(01:07):
that behind the scenes that no oneelse ever experienced firsthand's account of living with
such a beautiful, beautiful, Imean, but human being who she was.
We love that you're back and showedthe rival. See on the other
side, you're reading a thing Iwrote about Carrie on Facebook and I don't
(01:29):
remember where I found it. Yeah, yeah, no, worries. When
I read, I was like,oh my god. I wrote that in
I think she had just died andI was in the bathtub and wrote that
in my notes appen and then postedit. She was really special, guys,
she was really special and I learnedso much from her, and she
really was so generous and it's truethat not all those stars are like that.
(01:51):
Yeah, there was this one timewhere she had a She had a
friend who was having some troubles withhis teenage daughters. Everyone was fighting,
and he reached out to Karen waslike, Hey, can I come over
and will you walk us through this? And she was like sure, come
on. So sure enough, thesethis little family came to her house and
she was like, come in myroom and they all kind of piled on
her bed and worked out their problems. Like that's how she was like,
(02:14):
let me help, like it.Really, she really was very special.
No, that's what I noticed thatthe throughput for the whole story is she
really cared, Like she really caredabout the people in her life. Yes,
friends, family, and you.From the start is like from the
start, like she I mean again, whether it happened or not, this
is in there, like she madeyou change your hair from the start,
(02:37):
like she bought you clothes, broughtwould go out shopping. She would say,
I'm going to Vegas. In thebook, I loved it. No,
her going to Vegas was going shoppingduring the day and whatever, going
to having whatever lunch and being extravagant, come home with bags and give you
some clothes. Because and I sawthat as man, she cares about your
(02:59):
image, making you a better person, helping you be better, and that
that was the epitome of who shewas. So um this you um incorporated
many techniques in this book that Ithink are brilliant. You did something where
you'd always access the Sirie thing likein your conscious. That was like so,
(03:23):
and all great writers do things likethat because that made you. That's
that made that was your thing.Because there's books, there's millions of them
out there. But what makes youras different is you did certain things like
so. What he would do inthere was when he had a trouble or
he needed it was almost like talkingto a subconscious or that was my interpretation,
(03:46):
or some people would say talking toGod, but he would talk to
Sirie like in his conscious, Sirie, what do I do right here?
Like asking a question, so youwould do that. You had another thing
where you would do a three tieredthing a lot. You'd say, I'm
thinking blah blah, I'm thinking blahblah, and I'm thinking blah blah.
You'd give us three things like likeI maybe options of what you were What
(04:10):
do I do right now? Whatdo I do right now? What I
do? Can you give us anexample like do you remember in there?
Or do you like? He hewould give like, I have the book,
yeah you find it, but he'dsay like, I'm thinking about fish,
I'm thinking about killing myself, I'mthinking about driving down the street.
And it was interesting you just youwould throw that that that thing in there.
(04:31):
And then one of the other thingsthat I love is when you finally
realize that you're going to start makingthe what was it called the assistance Journal,
the assistant Bible, the Bible forassistance because the other assistance were like
someone very important documents. Yes,well that's a that's a real thing in
the world, Like you're supposed tohave sort of assistant Bible where you keep
(04:54):
everyone's password and their likes and dislikesand one of the right, yeah,
and one of them and that's whatI was telling. Um. It's because
Annabelle Early was helping me set uphere and blah, bah blah. And
I had a coffee that was halfI hadn't finished it yet, and she
dumped it out, trying to helpclean. And I said, that just
reminded me of what like Byron did, Like you're trying to be helpful,
(05:15):
but I didn't want that thrown awayyet, And it reminded me of like,
but there's no rules. You didn'tknow what the hell to do.
You like, you go in thereblindly and they're like, okay, now
what Like, So I'm gonna readyou a little section. I think this
is right when you have gotten thejob the end of one chapter before the
and I think both of those thingsare And here says I savor my truth
(05:40):
and close my eyes and see myselfin Kathy's bedroom and Kathy Cannon's life.
And that's that's the name you've givento Carrie Fisher in this book. I
imagine her mess, I imagine herchaos, I imagine her crazy. I'm
thinking, from now on, thisis my mess, my chaos, my
crazy. Hey, Siri, Iwant to clean it all up, so
(06:05):
good but that's when that was yourturning point in the book. That was
your turning point as a as aman, as a human being, as
an assistant, as a person inthis world. In the book, that
was your turning point. We realized, oh, this is what I have
to do, because it was great. Up until then you were struggling,
struggling, second guessing yourself, soinsecure. And oh the other thing he
(06:28):
does in there a lot is that, what's my grade? You have a
grade? He's always asking her,Hey, what's my grade? And straight
up at the beginning to sell you'rean f and therapista, therapista therapista,
and yeah, you always have thetherapist in your head like helping you.
So it was great because we werewe were learning about Byron as well,
(06:50):
like not only about her, butit was an autobiography of that time period.
Yeah, it's definitely the spirit thespirit of it. So, um,
you know, this book really isa lot of it's some real life
stuff and then a lot of umof imagination. Yeah, so so um
(07:11):
the character based on me is namedCharlie and the character based on Carrie is
named Kathy, and uh so yeah, a lot of the a lot of
the stuff happened in one way oranother, but it's it was really full
of imagining. So it's hard tosay it's an autobiography exactly, but the
spirit of that stuff is, Ihope, really there. And if people
leave that and they think, dang, this is kind of inspired by Carrie
(07:31):
Fisher, she must have been kickass. I'm like, great, you
got it, yeah, because shewas yeah, yeah exactly. And then
also for those of you don't know, Gracie, Gracie right, and miss
Gracie is Debbie Reynolds even bigger,iconic legendary mother Debbie Reynolds, so and
and and I'll the first scene thatyou have when you have it there when
(07:55):
you meet her, when you haveto go down the back to the bad
guesthouse, and and then her assistancein there, and then the way you
described her Debbie Reynolds was amazing.She's in this room, she's sitting there,
and if she's standing there, andyou just described her like she was
bigger in life on screen and shewas like that writing person. Just the
way she looked at you was itreally? Was it like that? Yeah,
(08:16):
Debbie Reynolds was not an actress.She was a movie star. Yeah,
and that is how she was.And when you were in her presence,
there was just like this thing.Yeah, and I often felt paralyzed,
and there were I'm not getting acouple times where she was like,
dear, I am talking to youand you, yes, you know what.
(08:37):
I wanted to say something because yousay that about Carrie and about Debbie.
Now this is um after how longhave you you have? Did you
grow up out here or no,you moved here. I grew up in
Louisiana, but then you moved herein two five, so two thousand and
five. So you went through allthis time of being you and nobody can
(09:01):
say anything like you just do whateverthe hell you want to do, and
all of a sudden you're in thepresence of these women that have you all
struck and it makes you realize ordid it make you realize because you wrote
this book that oh this point,I'm a watcher. I'm not here to
talk. I'm here to see what'shappening and to record. Did you have
(09:22):
a moment like that? I wishI would have been Yeah, I really
truly wish I would have been morepresent at the time. But the truth
is I was mostly putting out fires, so every day. In many ways,
Carrie was a mother figure to me, and in many ways I was
the parent. And yeah, soI would show up at ten in the
(09:45):
morning and be like, why isthis a mess? You know? And
so that that I wore that hata lot. And it wasn't until um,
you know, after she died andafter I posted the thing on Facebook
and everyone kind of went went crazyfor it, that I thought, oh,
you know what, that that wassomething where where maybe there's there are
things in there. I need toshare this thing. This thing should be
(10:05):
and I think it will be oncewere a lot of times with things like
this. It's more word of mouth. I think this thing should be on
top sellers list right now. It'sit's too damn good when you see it
in the life. Yeah, usuallyyou read autobiographies or behind the scenes on
celebrities that someone wrote, but notsomebody who actually was there with them during
(10:28):
that time. Usually see like somethingfrom the outside, Oh the story about
so and so, but you actuallywere hands on and from from there.
That's I don't know if that's everbeen done. Has an assistant ever written
a book about somebody? I don'tknow, you know, I I was
reminded of like the Devil wars Pradaand that kind of vibe. This is
definitely fiction, But the the lessonsthat I learned I really tried to give
(10:50):
to the character in the book Charlie. Yeah, I really tried to have
him taken those things. And tobe honest with you, even to this
day, I'm still I still momentswhere I have to remind myself, like
I'll say, a fame would makeme happy, or being a millionaire would
make me happy. And you know, those are a couple lessons I learned
from Carrie. Oh yeah, that'snot exactly how it works in life.
(11:13):
No, you can be super richand it doesn't mean you're automank you for
telling the audience that, because peoplethink that, especially in this day and
age in our culture. Everyone thinks, oh my gosh, I want to
be an influence, I want tobe famous, I want to be this
because I'll have everything, I'll beso happy. But it doesn't work like
that. No, Yeah, it'sinside and that's what you really get a
point in the across in this,I have a question for you. So
(11:35):
this was the idea for the bookwas born after Carrie passed away, and
then you posted that on Facebook,which I thought was also very moving.
I was probably also one of thepeople commenting on that. And at what
point did you think this is abook? And how did you go about
writing the book and then also findingan agent or probably sure and getting it
(12:01):
out because I'm sure if there arepeople out there who are interested in getting
their unique stories out, like howdo you how did you go about that?
How does one go about that?Good question? Thank you? Well,
I learned a lot from watching myUh Well, first of all,
I had been writing my whole life, So I was a journalism major,
so I've always been a storyteller,and that's taken you know. I was
(12:22):
on the news telling stories, andthen I was writing news in LA for
k CBS and Kikal and then andthen I wrote web series and the thing
I hadn't done was write a book. And then when I started thinking about
my memories with Carrie and the bestway to tell that story, it just
felt like I could color in themost with a novel, and so I
(12:45):
just started and and then it justkept going. And it was such a
rich time in my life, andliving that experience was so colorful um.
Every day really did feel like asitcom, and so it was not hard
to put all these things down anduh, and then I just kind of
(13:05):
got lucky. I U. Ihad cold emailed and agent who I really
respected and loved, and she shewas responsive to the material, and uh,
I got turned down. And youknow, so I had my and
I also had sent it to somefreelance editors and they gave me great advice
about shaping the story. The earlydrafts of this were a little more flat,
(13:26):
um, because my experience with Kerrywas actually very chill. There were
no big fights, there were nodramatic moments, yea, And if I
just took just those things, itwould have just been a little bit more
of a flat novel. But hadsome I had some good writers who were
like, hey, if you amplifythis and exaggerate this and bring some heightened
tension to this, which comes acrossbooms, there's bos and then this and
(13:52):
boom boom, and it makes youthat's so interestingly you're saying that. Wow.
So it was it was a learningprocess, and to be honest with
you, I'm still learning as asI go. And I listened to tons
of podcasts about writing and not justnovels but screenplays and TV because all of
that stuff is is helpful well speaking, which says, thank you so much
Ellie for saying that, because Ihave that on here because I wanted to
(14:15):
teach writers the process because I'm thesame like I want to. I have
so many book ideas, but Ihaven't started because I've written tons of screenplays,
but I don't know how to likeapproach a book, Like what's the
process? Do you just sit downto start writing your ideas? Like how
do you put it all together?Yeah? So they talk about two different
kinds of writers. There are pantswriters fly by the seat of your pants
(14:37):
and then you know, as you'redescribing to start on page one and go,
and then other people who outline andall that, and that's who I
would be. Yeah, So thisbook and I'm trying to write another and
that one was very um, justgo and then I'm realized. I realized
quickly in that having a plan servesbe better. It saves time, it
(15:01):
helps plant things earlier instead of havingto go back and all that stuff.
So so that's what I do.I try to I try to break it
down into just thirty chapters. SoI'm just telling thirty stories and that feels
manageable. And I do the thingwhere the index cards on the wall,
and oh you really go all out? Yeah. Yeah. And I feel
like my my writing process is basicallya circle. So it's inspiration and then
(15:26):
writing, and then depression. Idon't know what I'm doing. I've lost
my way. Yeah that's happening.I'm a fraud. Yeah. Then I
need to turn to information, andthat's podcast, listening to my favorite writers,
reading a great book, and thenthen I find inspiration again, and
then I'm back in the circle.So that's kind of that's my advice.
Oh that's cool. Yeah, Ikeep going, keep going. I always
(15:46):
say to people, that's that's greatbecause a lot of people same thing.
I think we all as artists,every one of us. We get to
the point where second guess ourselves,Yeah, I suck this, throw this
all away. It's not good.I'm doing it. But the thing is,
you got to keep going because eventuallyit's going to all come to fruition,
right if you keep putting in thework and you and you don't have
(16:06):
to reinvent the wheel. That's anotherthing. Sometimes I could get very overwhelmed.
But if you if you listen toan interview with one of your favorite
writers, they'll tell you. They'lltell you their process. It's and you
can find some things that will helpyou and you know, find a system.
One of my favorite quotes about writingcomes from on Writing by Stephen King.
(16:26):
Um, you probably know exactly whatI'm about to say, so he
says, writing a novel is likecrossing the Atlantic in a life raft.
Oh wow, and yeah, Soit's most of the time you're confused.
Most of the time. You don'tknow what's right, left, Where am
I going? I don't know whereI am. I'm in the middle of
(16:48):
the ocean. I'm stranded. That'show you feel literally most of the time.
Um, there's very little amount oftime where you feel like there's land.
That's when you first take off,and then you see the land as
you're as you're approaching it at theend. But the interesting thing too,
that he says is that it neverbecomes anything other than that. The only
(17:11):
difference between your first novel and yourtenth one is that by the tenth one,
you know you're going to make itacross right, you know, but
you're still just as confused, You'restill just as frustrated, you're still starving,
you know, you're you still don'tknow what you're doing. And I
think writing is so fascinating. Ithink it's the only job, it has
to be the only job on theplanet where most of the time you spend
(17:36):
most of your time inside a bubbleof confusion, like you don't know what
you're doing, you know, likeit's literally that is the emotional signature I
think of writing, especially long,long pieces like a novel. Well,
that's what I'm saying for a novel, because I've written eight screenplays, and
I actually feel differently because I'll alwaysdo I'll do sometimes six months of research
(17:59):
before I even start writing. Thatway, I already know everything's organized and
everything's in place, outlines and researchand knowing this, and then I don't
feel because I don't want to feellike I'm in the Olympic. That's the
thing. It's interesting, Like soI pant when I'm writing pros. When
I'm writing screenplays, I outline becauseI think it's the nature of the beasts
(18:21):
acture. You have to like thishappens, and so this happens, and
so this happens, so you haveto like have those, um you know,
the thread figured out before you can. I love you said that.
I was going to ask you.So then what did you write the web
series for the um the Testical one? Oh yep, so then so then
(18:45):
you had to write that in scriptform? So what was the difference you
felt for you between writing a bookand writing the script form? God,
the script stuff is so much easier. Yeah, see it seems it's shorter.
That's why I mean, I'm like, I haven't teld into a book
yet, because it seems like youdon't have to be so colorful. You
can just be like you entered theroom exactly, sat down on the on
(19:06):
the chair in the corner, youknow, and I don't want to be
you don't need to be, youknow, down the chair and welcome back,
Tony Frost. I have a veryactive bladder. It's it's not a
(19:26):
show. So so that so thescrew the script is easier. It's easier,
yeah, because you know, youalso are limited by um what you
can shoot. So like with theweb series, I shot all that in
my apartment, so I knew Ineeded to I couldn't have people in a
church, you know. Yeah,um and uh, and then you're limited
(19:48):
by what your actors can do andthat kind of thing. Yeah, and
art really is like uh, Imean, part of it is finding your
process and finding your way and recognizingthat um, you know, like I
think about how Steven Spielberg still wentback and made some edits to et a
masterpiece and isn't ever really done?Like is your art ever? I think
(20:11):
you never finish a book or apiece of art. You just get tired
of it, right, Yeah,you just realize I'm free enough. Let
it have its own life. Yea. Yeah. And then when everyone starts
saying, oh my god, it'sthe best thing ever you ever did,
and you're like, yeah, youknow, see, you know, then
you feel good about it when youget reviews about it, but you have
(20:32):
to walk away. Now. Let'slet's end the the the Star's board and
the carry Fisher thing with a littlesoliloquy. You did well again. You
know there's probably many, but youyou gave a for her birthday. Again.
I love this. She was aliber because when I found that,
I was like the personality thing.It made sense. You said, have
(20:52):
a birthday, carry you miss youevery day. The trips, the text,
the truth. I wish I couldsay, you're not missing anything,
but it's all fucked up here.This was in twenty twenty. You'd know
just what to say and do fulsomestrings of their Please we can always count
on you from much needed humor andhope. That that was. That was
(21:14):
last birthday, and and that wasso that again another powerful thing because she
always had a way of like bringingthese reaching to the most obscure places and
making something out of nothing, andpeople can most people don't do that,
but that's where her mind was was. And that's why this book to close
(21:37):
out in the book is so fantasticbecause it makes it gives you so much
life and so much color out ofa human being. And that's both of
you, because you both you bothyour characters in it. So I just
want you guys to know a StarWars board. You can get that Amazon.
It's where I got my copy.Yeah, anywhere. Indie indie bookstores
are hurting now, so if youcan order from from one of those,
(22:00):
that'd be great. The indie bookstoressupport them. But I promise you,
as America's Podcast or Kirkus Stairs,go read this. You will not be
let down. It is an amazingread from beginning again. Yes, absolutely,
I just want to talk one thingagain to help people through you.
You saw someone you said something somewhereabout something called psychological flexibility that you've kind
(22:23):
of battled personal mental health things youhave, You've had your therapista. It's
a lifelong work. Now. Alot of our listeners and fans, they
go through their own stuff, andI want you to just kind of like
let us know, like what isit that you've where have you gotten in
your life as a forty year oldguy that's getting you to the next stage
(22:47):
of life to where you're able tokind of cope with Because we all have
stuff, We've all been through things, and what is it that you do
now to kind of like help yourselfthrough to give other people hope for themselves.
Yeah, so I'm really into thisself helped lady named Byron Katie.
We have the same name. Hername is Byron Katie. Do you only
(23:07):
follow people with your name? Yes? Yes, all of my spiritual guys.
So she's been really helpful and thebiggest thing there is to summarize it
in my own words, is reallylife happens both locally and globally and locally
this seems really bad, traffic isreally terrible, what's going on? But
(23:30):
globally the sky is blue, mycar is driving, I'm breathing fine,
I'm gonna have dinner when I gethome. So those things all bring great
um comfort to me. And thenif we really wanted to go crazy,
one of the things she talks aboutis that nothing has ever happened but a
thought. So I'm not hungry,it's just the thought hunger. I'm not
(23:52):
angry, it's just the thoughts thatpower. So analyzing your thoughts. And
somewhere else I heard someone say doyou control your mind? Or is your
mind control you? And that wasthat was a real turning point for me,
in realizing that so much of thestuff that gets me down or throws
me off really is a part ofmy thinking. And basically just reframing what's
(24:15):
happened in life has helped me alot. That's I love that. That's
that's freaking amazing, And um,can I of course can I can?
I ask you if you have afavorite part in the book, or like
a favorite part of the experience ofwriting it, like something that sticks out
(24:38):
to you. My favorite was writingabout going to see the Aurora borealis the
northern those chapters. Yeah, SoCharlie and Cathy have an experience that was
very similar to what I had withCarrie. She got a weather alert.
She was like, oh my gosh, the weather alert. It says the
(24:59):
weather's be in the northern lights.We gotta go see a book of fly
and zo. Next thing you know, we're in Canada. We show up
there it's freezing. All I hadwas like, he said, he didn't
read I'm not ready, no,And so she took me to some fancy
store, bought me my first fancywinter coat, gloves, and she gave
(25:22):
me her scarf for this cashmere thing. And uh, the next thing you
know, we were standing out inthe middle of a frozen lake looking up
at this at this beautiful sky.And I love that Ellie brought this back
because I literally could talk about thisfor eight hours and I want I was
like, I gotta like move on, but I'm so glad you did.
I don't want to stop, LikeI just love everything that you just said.
Like that was so her. Shejust like, yep, cared about
(25:45):
you so much. Ye like reallydid that was her sense. Of yah,
she could have let him stand outthere and be like, this would
be a lesson for him to knowthe like you describe this, there's a
bunch of assistance that there when youstart hanging out with the other assistants,
And that is so true. Allthese assistants are like that. They all
(26:07):
have these different like the way youdescribed almost like I've seen all of them
real life. But yes, Iknow all of them too. But then
the first encounter when you guys wentto lunch and you met the publicists and
you're like, I don't take yourreservation for three, and you said that,
she grabbed your arm and said it'sonly for two, cockering or whatever,
I don't remember, like, andyou were so humiliated. I'm sorry,
(26:30):
it's only for two. And sothey go in and you had to
go sit outside. But that's whenthe other assistant and it's great, it's
it's great how you did that.That's when the other assistant like, oh,
you must be Charlie. And everyoneknew who you were. Everyone heard
about you. Oh that's Charlie.That's the new guy in the assistant circle.
And everyone and the other systems whoI know, they relate to these
stories and yeah, it's a it'sa weird world and I'm so lucky that
(26:55):
my experience was with Carrie, whowas generous and cool and had me laughing
all the time. Now one waswhen was the last time? When did
you finish the lifestyle? Uh?Well, I worked from her from twenty
eleven to twenty fourteen. That wasmy last like really great And for those
listening, what was the transition?Why did you end up completing it?
(27:18):
Well, that's that. So theending of the book was the hardest to
write, the saying goodbye, becauseI had gotten a job at a movie
studio where I could be an assistantand I thought, oh, that'll help
me with filmmaking. And then sothe factors that went into it were I
wanted a life of my own.Yeah, I wanted to make movies.
I wanted to go on auditions.I couldn't do any of that stuff because
I was traveling with her. Iwas in a writers group and I couldn't
(27:41):
attend meetings because I was out oftown or working. And that's I think
the other side of that job.It's glamorous, it's beautiful, it's wonderful,
but it does take over your entireslave to their life. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, And it canbe fun if they're great, and it
can be fun if you don't haveother ambitions, but if you do want
other things from your life. Soit just came a moment where I thought,
I have to decide do I keepliving her life or do I start
(28:04):
living? How did she take that? She was upset, and but also
I was. I didn't handle itperfect either. I gave like a few
weeks notice. Um, you actuallywere professional about it, and to give
like a two weeks notice, yeah, but that was that was hard on
her because it was a surprise andshe was in love with you love and
yeah, we love each other.Yeah, And it's so hard to fill
(28:27):
those positions, you know, tofind a right assistant. It's very common
for those celebrities to go through alot of assistance within like weeks because it's
just such a difficult job. Andmost people, especially if it's their first
go, they'll they'll take the job. They're not realizing. But like you
(28:47):
said, I mean you lasted threeyears. That seems that's why most probably
don't last a few months. It'shard. Yeah, it's hard, and
if it wasn't even weeks. Yeah, if it wasn't her, it would
have been different. Yeah, itreally was so fun. Yeah, but
I do I do wish I wouldhave been more present more of the time
instead of like, but I don'tknow at the time. We see we
(29:11):
do that all the time. Welook back, I wish, but you
were in something that you didn't realizeat the time. That's life that we
don't realize what we were part ofwhen you look back, literally, and
that's what's so important to remember forall you listening. Sometimes you're in the
middle of something so great and youdon't realize it, and tell it's like,
(29:32):
if you do realize at the time, it's a blessing because you can
kind of take it in differently.But you look back and realize that you
were part of something iconic. Itwasn't just some celebrity. I'm sorry,
but who was just like some regularcelebrity. But this is an icon and
legendary, a Hollywood um legacy.That wasn't just I don't care it could
(29:52):
have been Brad Pitt or de Niro. This is different level. I agree.
You know, So you got toexperience something and you so into it
that you're boo boo boom. Butso you lasted three years, you finally
had to walk away, and thenthat was you said twenty fourteen. Twenty
fourteen, Yeah, and you keptin touch after yep. Yeah. And
(30:14):
then did you realize right after Christmastwenty sixteen when she passed a few days
after did you know that was comingor was it unexpected? Oh? I
was unexpected? Well, so sheuh. I was taking a nap one
day. I had just gotten inbed and all of a sudden, my
phone started going crazy and it waspeople saying I'm so sorry, I'm so
(30:36):
sorry. And then I had togo to like TMZ or whatever to figure
out that she had had a problemon the airplane. And I reached out
to a couple of friends of minewho were doctors and was like, here's
what they're saying. And my friendswere like, it's not good. Um,
And so I knew. I hada sense of that. Yeah,
And but you know, it's it'ssuch a weird it's it's it's weird.
(31:00):
I tribe. I describe a littlepart in the book, and this is
kind of how how it is.You go to the hospital and they're like,
are you family? And so onpaper you're not, and so there
really is no So people were askingyou were yeah, it's weird. Yeah,
so friends were yeah, friends,persons were reaching out and like,
what's going on. And it washard for me to to find her her
(31:22):
current team and so it was itwas it was really hard. It was
really and she was the first significantperson in my life that I lost,
so like, my parents are stillalive and I have a sister is still
like my aunt uncle or you know. Yeah, so that was my first
experience with it was someone close toyou that that has passed. Ye.
And then the next day her motherdied. Yeah. Well, well Miss
(31:45):
Debbie used to always say to me, um, don't live past eighty dear,
I'm only alive for Carrie and wow. And then Carrie's brother is quoted
somewhere saying that one of Debbie's lastwords were one of the last things she
said was I'm going to be withCarrie. Wow. And they were really
(32:07):
tight. And that was really beautifuland it really kind of felt like it's
so shitty, but if it,if it had to be, well,
I was talking about it with Tony, I've talked about with a few other
people, and again as a becauseI'm a parent, I'm a daughter.
She's ten, and there's a saying, there's a saying for all parents,
like you never can outlive your kidbecause once it happens, you basically die.
(32:29):
And so it's crazy the net literallythe next day for those you don't
know, the next day her motherpasses and what you're quote about that,
which just says it all right there? Yeah, that was it. So
much love, so much love.Yeah, so thank you. I'm gonna
I'm gonna go to the Uh guys, man, this was really special.
(32:51):
Thank you for chatting with me aboutthis. Oh, thank you for being
open and sitting with us, andthank you for driving it. Oh please
my pleasure. Oh this was youjust again. Ellie's always bringing on guests
to make me cry. Man,I gotta like, what are you gonna
bring I've ever not seen you payfor this and fantasy. Ali's got to
(33:14):
bring someone on that makes me likelaugh. But it has been fun though,
But like you bring on people withsuch depth and like heart and like
soul and like connection to life.So I'm gonna finish on the fun note,
though, I have these questions I'mjust gonna throw out there. Okay,
and then we ended after Do youremember James Lipton, He had a
show on TV he was was calledthe Actor's Studio. Yeah, of course,
(33:35):
James y Yes, of course.So I kind of took the concept.
But they're more contemporary questions. I'mgonna ask you questions. What are
three things we would find in yourgrocery cart? Rice to cauliflower? You
just that last night? Okay,three, that's fine, you can use
that one. These are so boring, Like, I don't know, I
get sweet potatoes regularly. I likethis. We'll see you learn a lot
(33:58):
about somebody. Are you boring?I get you're healthy corn qu o r
N frozen spicy, fake meat patties, chicken patties. I like that.
And uh oh, I'm into yogurtnow, but I put I put sugar
free syrup on it. It's disgusting. I know what, I know.
(34:22):
It sounds, it sounds disgusting.Get the whole thing is being honest your
you get male, No, it'sit's ants. Mima got canceled. Funny.
(34:42):
Wait we wait, so what thispart of this is the true country?
Sir is Alaga? You know that'sall right? Alaga? Make that
this is why Steve doesn't want toeat with me. But what is that
(35:05):
you Warren? And it's just likefake fake corn. Yeah, it's so
like it's I don't think it's soy, but just like plant plant based fake
chicken. Yeah okay, Oh seethat was just the first question. Disgusting
and lazy. So you eat dairythough, but you don't eat meat.
I'm like, I stopped all breadsand carbs, stopped all meats and dairies
(35:29):
within the last few months. It'schanged my life feels so much better.
It made a huge difference for allthose you're listening. But that's why.
As when you hit forty so umone, are your top three favorite bands
or mudical musical artists of all time? Of all time? Well, Whitney
Houston my first concert I ever wentto at the Cajun Dome and oh your
(35:50):
first remember that? Yeah? MaybeI don't know, you know, he
very good, good, I don'tremember the restaurant you get start singing.
I want to know if you thinkabout these things. We always have to
(36:16):
bring out that moment when Tony singthat for the second just because of you.
It was because of you. Buyshe is Tony Frost. So um
God, it's my I feel likethis is my embarrassment tour. But when
I'm on a walk, I liketo listen to the soundtrack to Moulin Rouge.
(36:37):
Oh that's great sound. Why isthat embarrassing? That's really good?
Is that it's really good? Allright? All right? And what do
you mean? See? He's right, it's gone. I actually like the
movie. I like I like themovie better. Like that movie gives me
chills and dancing. There have youseen the movie? You've seen it?
(36:58):
Right? You didn't like it,I'm say, And then your final one?
All it feels like a cliche.But Madonna and I listened to the
Ray of Light, one of myfavorites, and if anyone could dispute the
Madonna, then thank you, it'ssa And what is your one song that
(37:19):
would be something that gets excited that'sgoing to get you over the mountaintop?
Is there like a song that youput on when you need that extra like
plush to get a man um?I wish that the question was about the
song for going down the hills.That would be I'll Always love You.
That's why always touches my heart forsome reason, And I think it's because
(37:44):
the Bodyguard came out at time inmy life when high school was was hard
and awful, and uh and Ilooked. I watched The Bodyguard and Rachel
Marin with Houston being such a kickass person, and I remember thinking,
I wish I could be like that. I wish I could own my in
some way. Yeah, and uhso that's that song? Really? Oh?
(38:05):
Oh gosh, no, I meanI do well. When he starts
singing, I thought he was goingto jump. He held back do karaoke
at the end of this show,So so we can have Byron sing Yeah,
what is Uh? Well, there'sso many choose from one book that
(38:28):
you'd always carry with your with youin your back pocket the rest of your
life. Is there a book that, in particular that's literally or figuratively if
you could fit in your back pocket? Yeah, well I've got I'll say
to like my self help go tois a Thousand Names for Joy, which
Byron Katie wrote, which either reallylove and uh, lately my go to
has been m fight Club. Ohwow, now that feels like a cliche.
(38:52):
What's it's not based on? It'snot the movie, it's the based
on the movie. The movie isbased on the book and definitely not a
cliche. The book is I thinkthe writing is so beautiful and descriptive,
and I'd be curious, um,if you just read a couple of pages
of it if you would find somesimilarities with mine, because I did.
(39:15):
I loved his book on writing,which is called Consider This. You feel
he was a big influence to orderboth of those. Check it out.
It really like you're much like you'reyou're on a freight train. Things are
happening, and then while you're onthere, he's weaving in other little things.
And so that's the kind of bookI love to read. Oh,
and that's what your style was,because things are happening and then you get
(39:37):
a chance to kind of slow downand fits your breath. The things are
happening, and that's great because youknow something's going to come soon, and
you're like, and you know it'sjust setting up for them. That's funny.
You did say that. So yourwriting style is more geared towards that
type of writing. Yeah, that'spretty cool. That's what I like to
read too. I want to let'slet's go, let's travel, you know,
(39:57):
speaking of travel, Thank you forsaying that. Let's question was what's
your dream location? Just get awayfrom it all to go? I don't
know. Well, we took ourplay Till the Seaton, Answers an Adam
Craigslist to Edinburgh a couple of times, and that's a little bit of my
happy place. Edinburgh was cool.That was always a dreamlinded performing that I
never got because I grew up intheater, theater and I wanted to always
(40:20):
perform. It's it's it's people areputting theaters all over town, the village,
everywhere, and it's just this festival. It's so famous. Everyone's walking
around. But I never got todo it there. I was like,
dart it. Let me know.I'm ready. Yeah, let me know.
Next time you put something up there, I'll go. They're great,
the organizers are amazing, the cityis amazing. It's really it's really impact.
(40:42):
You have the relationship. And youknow who's running it now? Is
um the girl that wrote fleabag?Oh okay, what's yes? She just
got she just took the role thatshe's running it. Wow, like the
spokesperson running a perfect ye. Shethat's a great story and herself. The
one thing about Carrie that when youthink of it, you instantly feel emotion,
(41:07):
astalgia, love her laugh, herlaugh, thank you. So she
was hilarious. She made everyone aroundher laugh. But the occasions where I
was clever or something and the stupidmade her laugh. Those truly, I
felt like I won the day whenthat happened. It's so funny seeing you
talk, because you portrayed this characterlike this, I got one on the
(41:31):
like that was always the thing withher, like when you'd win a little
battle. Oh my gosh, yeah, I got yeah, like because when
she compliments you or she throw alittle oh that feels good like, but
you were always walking on eggshells atfirst, you know, the insecurity and
I got one. That's what thislike you just said, you know the
occasion when I would make her laughyea, so she had an infectious laugh.
(41:52):
Oh yeah, an infectious laugh anduh. But but also she was
not You couldn't just tell her anormal joke. Like he was a person
who lived outside the box, thoughtoutside the box, and her humor was
outside the box. Yeah, soyou had to really you had to be
out there. Yeah, throw whatare the sports sayings? Left field?
And no, that's what I lovedabout what you get is she just loved
(42:14):
the most obscure things out of nowhere, the dirty or the best. She
liked to see people raise their eyebrows. You liked the whole thing. Yeah.
Um, what's one statement that wedescribe your twenty twenty? Does that
count? Oh yeah, if youguys should I love it. If you
(42:35):
guys have to watch this now youheard it? But positive list that was
that's the first we're keeping that.It was a sound. I love that
sing sound. And the final one, if you can go back in time
(42:59):
for two minutes and face your littlethird or fourth grade self, what would
you tell him? M Um,gosh, it's such a good question.
I think I would just say Iwould. I would give my my younger
self the same advice to give everyone. Keep going, keep going, keep
going with your writing, keep goingwith your art, keep going, um
(43:22):
with your life. Just keep going. It's a possles, that's it,
and that's a lesson for everybody.Yeah, never quick, keep going.
And that's what Pirate hasn't done.Yes, quit the pyro play you someone?
I know you're working on it?Are you? What's are you going
to be doing in New Broook?I'm working on a new book because I
saw somewhere you read a post aswriting is hard, Like, what was
it? Yeah, I have mylittle circle and that was probably my depression
(43:45):
section of my process. Yeah.So I'm working on new stuff and we'll
see, we'll see. This canbe TV with going and listen. It's
just sort of throwing needles of thewall and seeing what we can do.
And that's what it is. SoByron Lane, here listen, Here we
go the podcast. We got EllieSoon Joy, we got Tony Frost as
(44:07):
American's podcast for Turkey Sarace. Thanksfor joining us, have a good night.
It's you. Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, please take yourseats. The show is about to begin,
and here we go with my boyJason Charles Miller on the music.
(00:23):
This is America's podcaster Kurkis Saras onmy show which nimp in the podcast,
my co host at least so jomy the co host, Tony Frost,
and our guests. We got ByronLane here. If you hear you probably
heard part one and you hear parttwo. This guy. We spent some
years with one of the most legendarytheme of beings on the planet that grace
(00:46):
the Hollywood stage and screen. Wellhas created an icon of a character for
decades to come. Her name wasCarry Fisher, and he wrote a book
title This Star Is Bored. Thisis Part two talk about his life with
Carrie Fisher. Talk about the daysin and outs, the ups and downs
(01:07):
that behind the scenes that no oneelse ever experienced firsthand's account of living with
such a beautiful, beautiful, Imean, but human being who she was.
We love that you're back and showedthe rival. See on the other
side, you're reading a thing Iwrote about Carrie on Facebook and I don't
(01:29):
remember where I found it. Yeah, yeah, no, worries. When
I read, I was like,oh my god. I wrote that in
I think she had just died andI was in the bathtub and wrote that
in my notes appen and then postedit. She was really special, guys,
she was really special and I learnedso much from her, and she
really was so generous and it's truethat not all those stars are like that.
(01:51):
Yeah, there was this one timewhere she had a She had a
friend who was having some troubles withhis teenage daughters. Everyone was fighting,
and he reached out to Karen waslike, Hey, can I come over
and will you walk us through this? And she was like sure, come
on. So sure enough, thesethis little family came to her house and
she was like, come in myroom and they all kind of piled on
her bed and worked out their problems. Like that's how she was like,
(02:14):
let me help, like it.Really, she really was very special.
No, that's what I noticed thatthe throughput for the whole story is she
really cared, Like she really caredabout the people in her life. Yes,
friends, family, and you.From the start is like from the
start, like she I mean again, whether it happened or not, this
is in there, like she madeyou change your hair from the start,
(02:37):
like she bought you clothes, broughtwould go out shopping. She would say,
I'm going to Vegas. In thebook, I loved it. No,
her going to Vegas was going shoppingduring the day and whatever, going
to having whatever lunch and being extravagant, come home with bags and give you
some clothes. Because and I sawthat as man, she cares about your
(02:59):
image, making you a better person, helping you be better, and that
that was the epitome of who shewas. So um this you um incorporated
many techniques in this book that Ithink are brilliant. You did something where
you'd always access the Sirie thing likein your conscious. That was like so,
(03:23):
and all great writers do things likethat because that made you. That's
that made that was your thing.Because there's books, there's millions of them
out there. But what makes youras different is you did certain things like
so. What he would do inthere was when he had a trouble or
he needed it was almost like talkingto a subconscious or that was my interpretation,
(03:46):
or some people would say talking toGod, but he would talk to
Sirie like in his conscious, Sirie, what do I do right here?
Like asking a question, so youwould do that. You had another thing
where you would do a three tieredthing a lot. You'd say, I'm
thinking blah blah, I'm thinking blahblah, and I'm thinking blah blah.
You'd give us three things like likeI maybe options of what you were What
(04:10):
do I do right now? Whatdo I do right now? What I
do? Can you give us anexample like do you remember in there?
Or do you like? He hewould give like, I have the book,
yeah you find it, but he'dsay like, I'm thinking about fish,
I'm thinking about killing myself, I'mthinking about driving down the street.
And it was interesting you just youwould throw that that that thing in there.
(04:31):
And then one of the other thingsthat I love is when you finally
realize that you're going to start makingthe what was it called the assistance Journal,
the assistant Bible, the Bible forassistance because the other assistance were like
someone very important documents. Yes,well that's a that's a real thing in
the world, Like you're supposed tohave sort of assistant Bible where you keep
(04:54):
everyone's password and their likes and dislikesand one of the right, yeah,
and one of them and that's whatI was telling. Um. It's because
Annabelle Early was helping me set uphere and blah, bah blah. And
I had a coffee that was halfI hadn't finished it yet, and she
dumped it out, trying to helpclean. And I said, that just
reminded me of what like Byron did, Like you're trying to be helpful,
(05:15):
but I didn't want that thrown awayyet, And it reminded me of like,
but there's no rules. You didn'tknow what the hell to do.
You like, you go in thereblindly and they're like, okay, now
what Like, So I'm gonna readyou a little section. I think this
is right when you have gotten thejob the end of one chapter before the
and I think both of those thingsare And here says I savor my truth
(05:40):
and close my eyes and see myselfin Kathy's bedroom and Kathy Cannon's life.
And that's that's the name you've givento Carrie Fisher in this book. I
imagine her mess, I imagine herchaos, I imagine her crazy. I'm
thinking, from now on, thisis my mess, my chaos, my
crazy. Hey, Siri, Iwant to clean it all up, so
(06:05):
good but that's when that was yourturning point in the book. That was
your turning point as a as aman, as a human being, as
an assistant, as a person inthis world. In the book, that
was your turning point. We realized, oh, this is what I have
to do, because it was great. Up until then you were struggling,
struggling, second guessing yourself, soinsecure. And oh the other thing he
(06:28):
does in there a lot is that, what's my grade? You have a
grade? He's always asking her,Hey, what's my grade? And straight
up at the beginning to sell you'rean f and therapista, therapista therapista,
and yeah, you always have thetherapist in your head like helping you.
So it was great because we werewe were learning about Byron as well,
(06:50):
like not only about her, butit was an autobiography of that time period.
Yeah, it's definitely the spirit thespirit of it. So, um,
you know, this book really isa lot of it's some real life
stuff and then a lot of umof imagination. Yeah, so so um
(07:11):
the character based on me is namedCharlie and the character based on Carrie is
named Kathy, and uh so yeah, a lot of the a lot of
the stuff happened in one way oranother, but it's it was really full
of imagining. So it's hard tosay it's an autobiography exactly, but the
spirit of that stuff is, Ihope, really there. And if people
leave that and they think, dang, this is kind of inspired by Carrie
(07:31):
Fisher, she must have been kickass. I'm like, great, you
got it, yeah, because shewas yeah, yeah exactly. And then
also for those of you don't know, Gracie, Gracie right, and miss
Gracie is Debbie Reynolds even bigger,iconic legendary mother Debbie Reynolds, so and
and and I'll the first scene thatyou have when you have it there when
(07:55):
you meet her, when you haveto go down the back to the bad
guesthouse, and and then her assistancein there, and then the way you
described her Debbie Reynolds was amazing.She's in this room, she's sitting there,
and if she's standing there, andyou just described her like she was
bigger in life on screen and shewas like that writing person. Just the
way she looked at you was itreally? Was it like that? Yeah,
(08:16):
Debbie Reynolds was not an actress.She was a movie star. Yeah,
and that is how she was.And when you were in her presence,
there was just like this thing.Yeah, and I often felt paralyzed,
and there were I'm not getting acouple times where she was like,
dear, I am talking to youand you, yes, you know what.
(08:37):
I wanted to say something because yousay that about Carrie and about Debbie.
Now this is um after how longhave you you have? Did you
grow up out here or no,you moved here. I grew up in
Louisiana, but then you moved herein two five, so two thousand and
five. So you went through allthis time of being you and nobody can
(09:01):
say anything like you just do whateverthe hell you want to do, and
all of a sudden you're in thepresence of these women that have you all
struck and it makes you realize ordid it make you realize because you wrote
this book that oh this point,I'm a watcher. I'm not here to
talk. I'm here to see what'shappening and to record. Did you have
(09:22):
a moment like that? I wishI would have been Yeah, I really
truly wish I would have been morepresent at the time. But the truth
is I was mostly putting out fires, so every day. In many ways,
Carrie was a mother figure to me, and in many ways I was
the parent. And yeah, soI would show up at ten in the
(09:45):
morning and be like, why isthis a mess? You know? And
so that that I wore that hata lot. And it wasn't until um,
you know, after she died andafter I posted the thing on Facebook
and everyone kind of went went crazyfor it, that I thought, oh,
you know what, that that wassomething where where maybe there's there are
things in there. I need toshare this thing. This thing should be
(10:05):
and I think it will be oncewere a lot of times with things like
this. It's more word of mouth. I think this thing should be on
top sellers list right now. It'sit's too damn good when you see it
in the life. Yeah, usuallyyou read autobiographies or behind the scenes on
celebrities that someone wrote, but notsomebody who actually was there with them during
(10:28):
that time. Usually see like somethingfrom the outside, Oh the story about
so and so, but you actuallywere hands on and from from there.
That's I don't know if that's everbeen done. Has an assistant ever written
a book about somebody? I don'tknow, you know, I I was
reminded of like the Devil wars Pradaand that kind of vibe. This is
definitely fiction, But the the lessonsthat I learned I really tried to give
(10:50):
to the character in the book Charlie. Yeah, I really tried to have
him taken those things. And tobe honest with you, even to this
day, I'm still I still momentswhere I have to remind myself, like
I'll say, a fame would makeme happy, or being a millionaire would
make me happy. And you know, those are a couple lessons I learned
from Carrie. Oh yeah, that'snot exactly how it works in life.
(11:13):
No, you can be super richand it doesn't mean you're automank you for
telling the audience that, because peoplethink that, especially in this day and
age in our culture. Everyone thinks, oh my gosh, I want to
be an influence, I want tobe famous, I want to be this
because I'll have everything, I'll beso happy. But it doesn't work like
that. No, Yeah, it'sinside and that's what you really get a
point in the across in this,I have a question for you. So
(11:35):
this was the idea for the bookwas born after Carrie passed away, and
then you posted that on Facebook,which I thought was also very moving.
I was probably also one of thepeople commenting on that. And at what
point did you think this is abook? And how did you go about
writing the book and then also findingan agent or probably sure and getting it
(12:01):
out because I'm sure if there arepeople out there who are interested in getting
their unique stories out, like howdo you how did you go about that?
How does one go about that?Good question? Thank you? Well,
I learned a lot from watching myUh Well, first of all,
I had been writing my whole life, So I was a journalism major,
so I've always been a storyteller,and that's taken you know. I was
(12:22):
on the news telling stories, andthen I was writing news in LA for
k CBS and Kikal and then andthen I wrote web series and the thing
I hadn't done was write a book. And then when I started thinking about
my memories with Carrie and the bestway to tell that story, it just
felt like I could color in themost with a novel, and so I
(12:45):
just started and and then it justkept going. And it was such a
rich time in my life, andliving that experience was so colorful um.
Every day really did feel like asitcom, and so it was not hard
to put all these things down anduh, and then I just kind of
(13:05):
got lucky. I U. Ihad cold emailed and agent who I really
respected and loved, and she shewas responsive to the material, and uh,
I got turned down. And youknow, so I had my and
I also had sent it to somefreelance editors and they gave me great advice
about shaping the story. The earlydrafts of this were a little more flat,
(13:26):
um, because my experience with Kerrywas actually very chill. There were
no big fights, there were nodramatic moments, yea, And if I
just took just those things, itwould have just been a little bit more
of a flat novel. But hadsome I had some good writers who were
like, hey, if you amplifythis and exaggerate this and bring some heightened
tension to this, which comes acrossbooms, there's bos and then this and
(13:52):
boom boom, and it makes youthat's so interestingly you're saying that. Wow.
So it was it was a learningprocess, and to be honest with
you, I'm still learning as asI go. And I listened to tons
of podcasts about writing and not justnovels but screenplays and TV because all of
that stuff is is helpful well speaking, which says, thank you so much
Ellie for saying that, because Ihave that on here because I wanted to
(14:15):
teach writers the process because I'm thesame like I want to. I have
so many book ideas, but Ihaven't started because I've written tons of screenplays,
but I don't know how to likeapproach a book, Like what's the
process? Do you just sit downto start writing your ideas? Like how
do you put it all together?Yeah? So they talk about two different
kinds of writers. There are pantswriters fly by the seat of your pants
(14:37):
and then you know, as you'redescribing to start on page one and go,
and then other people who outline andall that, and that's who I
would be. Yeah, So thisbook and I'm trying to write another and
that one was very um, justgo and then I'm realized. I realized
quickly in that having a plan servesbe better. It saves time, it
(15:01):
helps plant things earlier instead of havingto go back and all that stuff.
So so that's what I do.I try to I try to break it
down into just thirty chapters. SoI'm just telling thirty stories and that feels
manageable. And I do the thingwhere the index cards on the wall,
and oh you really go all out? Yeah. Yeah. And I feel
like my my writing process is basicallya circle. So it's inspiration and then
(15:26):
writing, and then depression. Idon't know what I'm doing. I've lost
my way. Yeah that's happening.I'm a fraud. Yeah. Then I
need to turn to information, andthat's podcast, listening to my favorite writers,
reading a great book, and thenthen I find inspiration again, and
then I'm back in the circle.So that's kind of that's my advice.
Oh that's cool. Yeah, Ikeep going, keep going. I always
(15:46):
say to people, that's that's greatbecause a lot of people same thing.
I think we all as artists,every one of us. We get to
the point where second guess ourselves,Yeah, I suck this, throw this
all away. It's not good.I'm doing it. But the thing is,
you got to keep going because eventuallyit's going to all come to fruition,
right if you keep putting in thework and you and you don't have
(16:06):
to reinvent the wheel. That's anotherthing. Sometimes I could get very overwhelmed.
But if you if you listen toan interview with one of your favorite
writers, they'll tell you. They'lltell you their process. It's and you
can find some things that will helpyou and you know, find a system.
One of my favorite quotes about writingcomes from on Writing by Stephen King.
(16:26):
Um, you probably know exactly whatI'm about to say, so he
says, writing a novel is likecrossing the Atlantic in a life raft.
Oh wow, and yeah, Soit's most of the time you're confused.
Most of the time. You don'tknow what's right, left, Where am
I going? I don't know whereI am. I'm in the middle of
(16:48):
the ocean. I'm stranded. That'show you feel literally most of the time.
Um, there's very little amount oftime where you feel like there's land.
That's when you first take off,and then you see the land as
you're as you're approaching it at theend. But the interesting thing too,
that he says is that it neverbecomes anything other than that. The only
(17:11):
difference between your first novel and yourtenth one is that by the tenth one,
you know you're going to make itacross right, you know, but
you're still just as confused, You'restill just as frustrated, you're still starving,
you know, you're you still don'tknow what you're doing. And I
think writing is so fascinating. Ithink it's the only job, it has
to be the only job on theplanet where most of the time you spend
(17:36):
most of your time inside a bubbleof confusion, like you don't know what
you're doing, you know, likeit's literally that is the emotional signature I
think of writing, especially long,long pieces like a novel. Well,
that's what I'm saying for a novel, because I've written eight screenplays, and
I actually feel differently because I'll alwaysdo I'll do sometimes six months of research
(17:59):
before I even start writing. Thatway, I already know everything's organized and
everything's in place, outlines and researchand knowing this, and then I don't
feel because I don't want to feellike I'm in the Olympic. That's the
thing. It's interesting, Like soI pant when I'm writing pros. When
I'm writing screenplays, I outline becauseI think it's the nature of the beasts
(18:21):
acture. You have to like thishappens, and so this happens, and
so this happens, so you haveto like have those, um you know,
the thread figured out before you can. I love you said that.
I was going to ask you.So then what did you write the web
series for the um the Testical one? Oh yep, so then so then
(18:45):
you had to write that in scriptform? So what was the difference you
felt for you between writing a bookand writing the script form? God,
the script stuff is so much easier. Yeah, see it seems it's shorter.
That's why I mean, I'm like, I haven't teld into a book
yet, because it seems like youdon't have to be so colorful. You
can just be like you entered theroom exactly, sat down on the on
(19:06):
the chair in the corner, youknow, and I don't want to be
you don't need to be, youknow, down the chair and welcome back,
Tony Frost. I have a veryactive bladder. It's it's not a
(19:26):
show. So so that so thescrew the script is easier. It's easier,
yeah, because you know, youalso are limited by um what you
can shoot. So like with theweb series, I shot all that in
my apartment, so I knew Ineeded to I couldn't have people in a
church, you know. Yeah,um and uh, and then you're limited
(19:48):
by what your actors can do andthat kind of thing. Yeah, and
art really is like uh, Imean, part of it is finding your
process and finding your way and recognizingthat um, you know, like I
think about how Steven Spielberg still wentback and made some edits to et a
masterpiece and isn't ever really done?Like is your art ever? I think
(20:11):
you never finish a book or apiece of art. You just get tired
of it, right, Yeah,you just realize I'm free enough. Let
it have its own life. Yea. Yeah. And then when everyone starts
saying, oh my god, it'sthe best thing ever you ever did,
and you're like, yeah, youknow, see, you know, then
you feel good about it when youget reviews about it, but you have
(20:32):
to walk away. Now. Let'slet's end the the the Star's board and
the carry Fisher thing with a littlesoliloquy. You did well again. You
know there's probably many, but youyou gave a for her birthday. Again.
I love this. She was aliber because when I found that,
I was like the personality thing.It made sense. You said, have
(20:52):
a birthday, carry you miss youevery day. The trips, the text,
the truth. I wish I couldsay, you're not missing anything,
but it's all fucked up here.This was in twenty twenty. You'd know
just what to say and do fulsomestrings of their Please we can always count
on you from much needed humor andhope. That that was. That was
(21:14):
last birthday, and and that wasso that again another powerful thing because she
always had a way of like bringingthese reaching to the most obscure places and
making something out of nothing, andpeople can most people don't do that,
but that's where her mind was was. And that's why this book to close
(21:37):
out in the book is so fantasticbecause it makes it gives you so much
life and so much color out ofa human being. And that's both of
you, because you both you bothyour characters in it. So I just
want you guys to know a StarWars board. You can get that Amazon.
It's where I got my copy.Yeah, anywhere. Indie indie bookstores
are hurting now, so if youcan order from from one of those,
(22:00):
that'd be great. The indie bookstoressupport them. But I promise you,
as America's Podcast or Kirkus Stairs,go read this. You will not be
let down. It is an amazingread from beginning again. Yes, absolutely,
I just want to talk one thingagain to help people through you.
You saw someone you said something somewhereabout something called psychological flexibility that you've kind
(22:23):
of battled personal mental health things youhave, You've had your therapista. It's
a lifelong work. Now. Alot of our listeners and fans, they
go through their own stuff, andI want you to just kind of like
let us know, like what isit that you've where have you gotten in
your life as a forty year oldguy that's getting you to the next stage
(22:47):
of life to where you're able tokind of cope with Because we all have
stuff, We've all been through things, and what is it that you do
now to kind of like help yourselfthrough to give other people hope for themselves.
Yeah, so I'm really into thisself helped lady named Byron Katie.
We have the same name. Hername is Byron Katie. Do you only
(23:07):
follow people with your name? Yes? Yes, all of my spiritual guys.
So she's been really helpful and thebiggest thing there is to summarize it
in my own words, is reallylife happens both locally and globally and locally
this seems really bad, traffic isreally terrible, what's going on? But
(23:30):
globally the sky is blue, mycar is driving, I'm breathing fine,
I'm gonna have dinner when I gethome. So those things all bring great
um comfort to me. And thenif we really wanted to go crazy,
one of the things she talks aboutis that nothing has ever happened but a
thought. So I'm not hungry,it's just the thought hunger. I'm not
(23:52):
angry, it's just the thoughts thatpower. So analyzing your thoughts. And
somewhere else I heard someone say doyou control your mind? Or is your
mind control you? And that wasthat was a real turning point for me,
in realizing that so much of thestuff that gets me down or throws
me off really is a part ofmy thinking. And basically just reframing what's
(24:15):
happened in life has helped me alot. That's I love that. That's
that's freaking amazing, And um,can I of course can I can?
I ask you if you have afavorite part in the book, or like
a favorite part of the experience ofwriting it, like something that sticks out
(24:38):
to you. My favorite was writingabout going to see the Aurora borealis the
northern those chapters. Yeah, SoCharlie and Cathy have an experience that was
very similar to what I had withCarrie. She got a weather alert.
She was like, oh my gosh, the weather alert. It says the
(24:59):
weather's be in the northern lights.We gotta go see a book of fly
and zo. Next thing you know, we're in Canada. We show up
there it's freezing. All I hadwas like, he said, he didn't
read I'm not ready, no,And so she took me to some fancy
store, bought me my first fancywinter coat, gloves, and she gave
(25:22):
me her scarf for this cashmere thing. And uh, the next thing you
know, we were standing out inthe middle of a frozen lake looking up
at this at this beautiful sky.And I love that Ellie brought this back
because I literally could talk about thisfor eight hours and I want I was
like, I gotta like move on, but I'm so glad you did.
I don't want to stop, LikeI just love everything that you just said.
Like that was so her. Shejust like, yep, cared about
(25:45):
you so much. Ye like reallydid that was her sense. Of yah,
she could have let him stand outthere and be like, this would
be a lesson for him to knowthe like you describe this, there's a
bunch of assistance that there when youstart hanging out with the other assistants,
And that is so true. Allthese assistants are like that. They all
(26:07):
have these different like the way youdescribed almost like I've seen all of them
real life. But yes, Iknow all of them too. But then
the first encounter when you guys wentto lunch and you met the publicists and
you're like, I don't take yourreservation for three, and you said that,
she grabbed your arm and said it'sonly for two, cockering or whatever,
I don't remember, like, andyou were so humiliated. I'm sorry,
(26:30):
it's only for two. And sothey go in and you had to
go sit outside. But that's whenthe other assistant and it's great, it's
it's great how you did that.That's when the other assistant like, oh,
you must be Charlie. And everyoneknew who you were. Everyone heard
about you. Oh that's Charlie.That's the new guy in the assistant circle.
And everyone and the other systems whoI know, they relate to these
stories and yeah, it's a it'sa weird world and I'm so lucky that
(26:55):
my experience was with Carrie, whowas generous and cool and had me laughing
all the time. Now one waswhen was the last time? When did
you finish the lifestyle? Uh?Well, I worked from her from twenty
eleven to twenty fourteen. That wasmy last like really great And for those
listening, what was the transition?Why did you end up completing it?
(27:18):
Well, that's that. So theending of the book was the hardest to
write, the saying goodbye, becauseI had gotten a job at a movie
studio where I could be an assistantand I thought, oh, that'll help
me with filmmaking. And then sothe factors that went into it were I
wanted a life of my own.Yeah, I wanted to make movies.
I wanted to go on auditions.I couldn't do any of that stuff because
I was traveling with her. Iwas in a writers group and I couldn't
(27:41):
attend meetings because I was out oftown or working. And that's I think
the other side of that job.It's glamorous, it's beautiful, it's wonderful,
but it does take over your entireslave to their life. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, And it canbe fun if they're great, and it
can be fun if you don't haveother ambitions, but if you do want
other things from your life. Soit just came a moment where I thought,
I have to decide do I keepliving her life or do I start
(28:04):
living? How did she take that? She was upset, and but also
I was. I didn't handle itperfect either. I gave like a few
weeks notice. Um, you actuallywere professional about it, and to give
like a two weeks notice, yeah, but that was that was hard on
her because it was a surprise andshe was in love with you love and
yeah, we love each other.Yeah, And it's so hard to fill
(28:27):
those positions, you know, tofind a right assistant. It's very common
for those celebrities to go through alot of assistance within like weeks because it's
just such a difficult job. Andmost people, especially if it's their first
go, they'll they'll take the job. They're not realizing. But like you
(28:47):
said, I mean you lasted threeyears. That seems that's why most probably
don't last a few months. It'shard. Yeah, it's hard, and
if it wasn't even weeks. Yeah, if it wasn't her, it would
have been different. Yeah, itreally was so fun. Yeah, but
I do I do wish I wouldhave been more present more of the time
instead of like, but I don'tknow at the time. We see we
(29:11):
do that all the time. Welook back, I wish, but you
were in something that you didn't realizeat the time. That's life that we
don't realize what we were part ofwhen you look back, literally, and
that's what's so important to remember forall you listening. Sometimes you're in the
middle of something so great and youdon't realize it, and tell it's like,
(29:32):
if you do realize at the time, it's a blessing because you can
kind of take it in differently.But you look back and realize that you
were part of something iconic. Itwasn't just some celebrity. I'm sorry,
but who was just like some regularcelebrity. But this is an icon and
legendary, a Hollywood um legacy.That wasn't just I don't care it could
(29:52):
have been Brad Pitt or de Niro. This is different level. I agree.
You know, So you got toexperience something and you so into it
that you're boo boo boom. Butso you lasted three years, you finally
had to walk away, and thenthat was you said twenty fourteen. Twenty
fourteen, Yeah, and you keptin touch after yep. Yeah. And
(30:14):
then did you realize right after Christmastwenty sixteen when she passed a few days
after did you know that was comingor was it unexpected? Oh? I
was unexpected? Well, so sheuh. I was taking a nap one
day. I had just gotten inbed and all of a sudden, my
phone started going crazy and it waspeople saying I'm so sorry, I'm so
(30:36):
sorry. And then I had togo to like TMZ or whatever to figure
out that she had had a problemon the airplane. And I reached out
to a couple of friends of minewho were doctors and was like, here's
what they're saying. And my friendswere like, it's not good. Um,
And so I knew. I hada sense of that. Yeah,
And but you know, it's it'ssuch a weird it's it's it's weird.
(31:00):
I tribe. I describe a littlepart in the book, and this is
kind of how how it is.You go to the hospital and they're like,
are you family? And so onpaper you're not, and so there
really is no So people were askingyou were yeah, it's weird. Yeah,
so friends were yeah, friends,persons were reaching out and like,
what's going on. And it washard for me to to find her her
(31:22):
current team and so it was itwas it was really hard. It was
really and she was the first significantperson in my life that I lost,
so like, my parents are stillalive and I have a sister is still
like my aunt uncle or you know. Yeah, so that was my first
experience with it was someone close toyou that that has passed. Ye.
And then the next day her motherdied. Yeah. Well, well Miss
(31:45):
Debbie used to always say to me, um, don't live past eighty dear,
I'm only alive for Carrie and wow. And then Carrie's brother is quoted
somewhere saying that one of Debbie's lastwords were one of the last things she
said was I'm going to be withCarrie. Wow. And they were really
(32:07):
tight. And that was really beautifuland it really kind of felt like it's
so shitty, but if it,if it had to be, well,
I was talking about it with Tony, I've talked about with a few other
people, and again as a becauseI'm a parent, I'm a daughter.
She's ten, and there's a saying, there's a saying for all parents,
like you never can outlive your kidbecause once it happens, you basically die.
(32:29):
And so it's crazy the net literallythe next day for those you don't
know, the next day her motherpasses and what you're quote about that,
which just says it all right there? Yeah, that was it. So
much love, so much love.Yeah, so thank you. I'm gonna
I'm gonna go to the Uh guys, man, this was really special.
(32:51):
Thank you for chatting with me aboutthis. Oh, thank you for being
open and sitting with us, andthank you for driving it. Oh please
my pleasure. Oh this was youjust again. Ellie's always bringing on guests
to make me cry. Man,I gotta like, what are you gonna
bring I've ever not seen you payfor this and fantasy. Ali's got to
(33:14):
bring someone on that makes me likelaugh. But it has been fun though,
But like you bring on people withsuch depth and like heart and like
soul and like connection to life.So I'm gonna finish on the fun note,
though, I have these questions I'mjust gonna throw out there. Okay,
and then we ended after Do youremember James Lipton, He had a
show on TV he was was calledthe Actor's Studio. Yeah, of course,
(33:35):
James y Yes, of course.So I kind of took the concept.
But they're more contemporary questions. I'mgonna ask you questions. What are
three things we would find in yourgrocery cart? Rice to cauliflower? You
just that last night? Okay,three, that's fine, you can use
that one. These are so boring, Like, I don't know, I
get sweet potatoes regularly. I likethis. We'll see you learn a lot
(33:58):
about somebody. Are you boring?I get you're healthy corn qu o r
N frozen spicy, fake meat patties, chicken patties. I like that.
And uh oh, I'm into yogurtnow, but I put I put sugar
free syrup on it. It's disgusting. I know what, I know.
(34:22):
It sounds, it sounds disgusting.Get the whole thing is being honest your
you get male, No, it'sit's ants. Mima got canceled. Funny.
(34:42):
Wait we wait, so what thispart of this is the true country?
Sir is Alaga? You know that'sall right? Alaga? Make that
this is why Steve doesn't want toeat with me. But what is that
(35:05):
you Warren? And it's just likefake fake corn. Yeah, it's so
like it's I don't think it's soy, but just like plant plant based fake
chicken. Yeah okay, Oh seethat was just the first question. Disgusting
and lazy. So you eat dairythough, but you don't eat meat.
I'm like, I stopped all breadsand carbs, stopped all meats and dairies
(35:29):
within the last few months. It'schanged my life feels so much better.
It made a huge difference for allthose you're listening. But that's why.
As when you hit forty so umone, are your top three favorite bands
or mudical musical artists of all time? Of all time? Well, Whitney
Houston my first concert I ever wentto at the Cajun Dome and oh your
(35:50):
first remember that? Yeah? MaybeI don't know, you know, he
very good, good, I don'tremember the restaurant you get start singing.
I want to know if you thinkabout these things. We always have to
(36:16):
bring out that moment when Tony singthat for the second just because of you.
It was because of you. Buyshe is Tony Frost. So um
God, it's my I feel likethis is my embarrassment tour. But when
I'm on a walk, I liketo listen to the soundtrack to Moulin Rouge.
(36:37):
Oh that's great sound. Why isthat embarrassing? That's really good?
Is that it's really good? Allright? All right? And what do
you mean? See? He's right, it's gone. I actually like the
movie. I like I like themovie better. Like that movie gives me
chills and dancing. There have youseen the movie? You've seen it?
(36:58):
Right? You didn't like it,I'm say, And then your final one?
All it feels like a cliche.But Madonna and I listened to the
Ray of Light, one of myfavorites, and if anyone could dispute the
Madonna, then thank you, it'ssa And what is your one song that
(37:19):
would be something that gets excited that'sgoing to get you over the mountaintop?
Is there like a song that youput on when you need that extra like
plush to get a man um?I wish that the question was about the
song for going down the hills.That would be I'll Always love You.
That's why always touches my heart forsome reason, And I think it's because
(37:44):
the Bodyguard came out at time inmy life when high school was was hard
and awful, and uh and Ilooked. I watched The Bodyguard and Rachel
Marin with Houston being such a kickass person, and I remember thinking,
I wish I could be like that. I wish I could own my in
some way. Yeah, and uhso that's that song? Really? Oh?
(38:05):
Oh gosh, no, I meanI do well. When he starts
singing, I thought he was goingto jump. He held back do karaoke
at the end of this show,So so we can have Byron sing Yeah,
what is Uh? Well, there'sso many choose from one book that
(38:28):
you'd always carry with your with youin your back pocket the rest of your
life. Is there a book that, in particular that's literally or figuratively if
you could fit in your back pocket? Yeah, well I've got I'll say
to like my self help go tois a Thousand Names for Joy, which
Byron Katie wrote, which either reallylove and uh, lately my go to
has been m fight Club. Ohwow, now that feels like a cliche.
(38:52):
What's it's not based on? It'snot the movie, it's the based
on the movie. The movie isbased on the book and definitely not a
cliche. The book is I thinkthe writing is so beautiful and descriptive,
and I'd be curious, um,if you just read a couple of pages
of it if you would find somesimilarities with mine, because I did.
(39:15):
I loved his book on writing,which is called Consider This. You feel
he was a big influence to orderboth of those. Check it out.
It really like you're much like you'reyou're on a freight train. Things are
happening, and then while you're onthere, he's weaving in other little things.
And so that's the kind of bookI love to read. Oh,
and that's what your style was,because things are happening and then you get
(39:37):
a chance to kind of slow downand fits your breath. The things are
happening, and that's great because youknow something's going to come soon, and
you're like, and you know it'sjust setting up for them. That's funny.
You did say that. So yourwriting style is more geared towards that
type of writing. Yeah, that'spretty cool. That's what I like to
read too. I want to let'slet's go, let's travel, you know,
(39:57):
speaking of travel, Thank you forsaying that. Let's question was what's
your dream location? Just get awayfrom it all to go? I don't
know. Well, we took ourplay Till the Seaton, Answers an Adam
Craigslist to Edinburgh a couple of times, and that's a little bit of my
happy place. Edinburgh was cool.That was always a dreamlinded performing that I
never got because I grew up intheater, theater and I wanted to always
(40:20):
perform. It's it's it's people areputting theaters all over town, the village,
everywhere, and it's just this festival. It's so famous. Everyone's walking
around. But I never got todo it there. I was like,
dart it. Let me know.I'm ready. Yeah, let me know.
Next time you put something up there, I'll go. They're great,
the organizers are amazing, the cityis amazing. It's really it's really impact.
(40:42):
You have the relationship. And youknow who's running it now? Is
um the girl that wrote fleabag?Oh okay, what's yes? She just
got she just took the role thatshe's running it. Wow, like the
spokesperson running a perfect ye. Shethat's a great story and herself. The
one thing about Carrie that when youthink of it, you instantly feel emotion,
(41:07):
astalgia, love her laugh, herlaugh, thank you. So she
was hilarious. She made everyone aroundher laugh. But the occasions where I
was clever or something and the stupidmade her laugh. Those truly, I
felt like I won the day whenthat happened. It's so funny seeing you
talk, because you portrayed this characterlike this, I got one on the
(41:31):
like that was always the thing withher, like when you'd win a little
battle. Oh my gosh, yeah, I got yeah, like because when
she compliments you or she throw alittle oh that feels good like, but
you were always walking on eggshells atfirst, you know, the insecurity and
I got one. That's what thislike you just said, you know the
occasion when I would make her laughyea, so she had an infectious laugh.
(41:52):
Oh yeah, an infectious laugh anduh. But but also she was
not You couldn't just tell her anormal joke. Like he was a person
who lived outside the box, thoughtoutside the box, and her humor was
outside the box. Yeah, soyou had to really you had to be
out there. Yeah, throw whatare the sports sayings? Left field?
And no, that's what I lovedabout what you get is she just loved
(42:14):
the most obscure things out of nowhere, the dirty or the best. She
liked to see people raise their eyebrows. You liked the whole thing. Yeah.
Um, what's one statement that wedescribe your twenty twenty? Does that
count? Oh yeah, if youguys should I love it. If you
(42:35):
guys have to watch this now youheard it? But positive list that was
that's the first we're keeping that.It was a sound. I love that
sing sound. And the final one, if you can go back in time
(42:59):
for two minutes and face your littlethird or fourth grade self, what would
you tell him? M Um,gosh, it's such a good question.
I think I would just say Iwould. I would give my my younger
self the same advice to give everyone. Keep going, keep going, keep
going with your writing, keep goingwith your art, keep going, um
(43:22):
with your life. Just keep going. It's a possles, that's it,
and that's a lesson for everybody.Yeah, never quick, keep going.
And that's what Pirate hasn't done.Yes, quit the pyro play you someone?
I know you're working on it?Are you? What's are you going
to be doing in New Broook?I'm working on a new book because I
saw somewhere you read a post aswriting is hard, Like, what was
it? Yeah, I have mylittle circle and that was probably my depression
(43:45):
section of my process. Yeah.So I'm working on new stuff and we'll
see, we'll see. This canbe TV with going and listen. It's
just sort of throwing needles of thewall and seeing what we can do.
And that's what it is. SoByron Lane, here listen, Here we
go the podcast. We got EllieSoon Joy, we got Tony Frost as
(44:07):
American's podcast for Turkey Sarace. Thanksfor joining us, have a good night.
It's you. Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
What Are We Even Doing? with Kyle MacLachlan
Join award-winning actor and social media madman Kyle MacLachlan on “What Are We Even Doing,” where he sits down with Millennial and Gen Z actors, musicians, artists, and content creators to share stories about the entertainment industry past, present, and future. Kyle and his guests will talk shop, compare notes on life, and generally be weird together. In a good way. Their conversations will resonate with listeners of any age whose interests lie in television & film, music, art, or pop culture.