The Zeitgeist in Hollywood - with Rob Adetuyi - Part II - What's Your Name Again? - with Kurt Caceres

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Ladies and gentlemen, please take yourseats. The show is about to begin.
Welcome back to What's Your Name Again? The podcast. This is of

(00:24):
course America's podcaster Kurt Kassara's If you'rejoining us again, you must have hurt
cart one with my amazing, intelligent, deep, well educated, very talented
Roberta to you such an inspiring director, writer, producer, someone who has

(00:51):
spent decades in Hollywood climbing the ladderand has finally busted through the door that's
going to make an imprint on Hollywood, on the future filmmaking. He just
scratched the surface in part one explainingthe process in Hollywood, explaining his journey,

(01:12):
and he's about to get into areal good here in part two.
But my coast, Anthony is easy. Just I'm learning. You want to
learn what it's like to be behindthe scenes in Hollywood, to make it
as a writer, to make itas a director. Among of the most
educated and talented individuals I've ever hadon the show, robot a tweet when

(01:38):
you're like myself involved with four unions, because I've got unions in Canada,
I'm a part of it, andit gets a little tricky Union card,
and yeah, I'm paying a lotof dues. Uh, you know,
the more you make, the morethey get and all that whole life almost
right. So, but the thingis, at times, you know,

(02:00):
like we all do you you havethe right to complain. It's like in
family. You know, we havearguments in the family, but you're still
family. And that's how I feelabout it. Within the Union, yes,
there are things because of the naturethe structure of our political and economic
systems, unions themselves are having ahard time struggle, like keeping up healthcare.
Healthcare is my biggest issue inside ofthe Union because that's so important to

(02:22):
all of us, right, whichwe got screwed on this pasture. Know
I'm familiar with like that we actuallygot thrown under the bus in the middle
of the pandemic, right, you'refamiliar with that. Oh yeah, yeah,
that's what I'm saying, you know. But what I say is,
uh that the Union is also facinga lot of forces that we don't appreciate

(02:43):
because you know, we just wantto make it just about me right now,
what I need right this moment.And I get that, and that's
you know me though I'm saying allhe's whoever's in the union is my brother
and sister. Right. What I'msaying is that, but the union as
a structure is up against forces thatare trying to repress their ability to do
with this big powerful Yeah. Andso I mean in the w GA,

(03:09):
we that's the Writer's Union. Here, we had this thing where they told
us not to fire our agents,and we went through this hole and I
was opposed to it. I waslike, oh, that's crazy, you
know. But in the long runit worked. They did achieve the goal.
I didn't think they were going tobe able to achieve it. So
I'll be honest, I kind ofwas skittish, going, oh, getting

(03:29):
crazy, and I voted along withit. I said, you know,
I'm gonna trust my leadership. ButI thought, I that was kind of
crazy. Fire my you know agent. You know, I've been with him
for all these years. I gotto call him up and say, hey,
you know, everybody to fire.Yeah, yeah, if you're following,
this is I didn't know that veryeffective work. But I didn't think

(03:51):
it was going to work. Ithought, this is and that's scary as
an artist in this town not havingagent out there. But it should have
worked. What they were fighting foris a no brainer. For a writer
to have that kind of control andthat have that kind of they should be
able to choose and do a bigAnd again it was to keep it small,

(04:12):
not let the corporations run everything.So they had to fight by sade,
this is how we're going to fightback. And I'm glad it worked
out because it should be that way. Actually, so I'm saying it depends
on where you are in that cycle. Sometimes it looks like, oh my,
my union doesn't know what they're doing, but you know, quite often
they do. And look at peoplemake mistakes. Even a union is just
a collection of people and not everyright, not every choice is the best

(04:36):
choice, just like a corporation makesmistakes and government makes mistakes. So I'm
just saying, is that but withoutside if side wasn't around, forget it,
you'd be making no money. Imean, if you the worst conditions.
Yeah, yeah, you know,I don't know if that. I'll

(04:56):
tell you why. What I've realizedabout this industry, no really is that
it's it's about the marketplace and it'sabout the demand. And believe it's like
athletics. And that's why I'm likevery careful. Well, like I say
that any athlete be careful, becauseyou if you alienate too many of your
consumers who're paying your multimillion billion dollarcontracts, you're gonna be out of a

(05:20):
job. So I always believe thatit's depends on who's watching. Meaning if
you're big enough, people to enough, people want to watch you and pay
to see you, no one canstop you. Somebody, somebody will exploit
that and you'll get your fair marketvalue. If they can pay Shack one
hundred million dollars a year to play, it's because the owners are and you

(05:45):
don't need a union for that.People are gonna come watch Shack. But
yeah, I think here's the pointyou're missing is that unions aren't for Shack,
right, Okay, it's for theaverage. Yeah. When we say
average, you know how many actorsare out there, thousands and thousands of
actors, and if not for theunion, they'd be Like an actor does

(06:09):
a commercial one season commercial, itmakes thirty grand. Maybe, well a
good commercial, good Nash makes thirtygrand. Right, if there was no
union, there's no thirty grand.There's not even two grand. The show
up for the day. I'll giveyou five hundred bucks. Yeah, exactly,
so you're gone. And so theunion is what allows that to exist.

(06:30):
And that's what most real working actorscount on while they do all the
other things they do. That's sotrue. They're not perfect. But I'm
still getting residuals from twenty years agothat pays my bills still. Yeah,
but you should be getting that qualifiesme for insurance still for my dependent It's
like, you're so right. There'sno unions perfect because they're run by people.
Yeah, and even though it's upsetas we were what happened during the

(06:53):
pandemic with our health insurance, whichwas unfortunate. You know, we got
in that position probably because people,you know, human make it mistakes and
hopefully we're going to recover from itby these changes they made. So let's
not pound the unions much longer becausewe are unions are they're good for us.
Yes, I'm not a union I'mnot. I'm just my parents were.

(07:15):
My parents were teachers, so thereare some of the last people that
are union people. So I grewup around union people, So I'm with
you. I don't like you grewup with the union thing. So let's
let's finish something. Now we movedon from some of his great work.
Now I really want to educate people. And I'm sure she has some great
notes and you do not have notesbecause you just creative to give him.

(07:41):
I'm going to lead him into somethinginteresting. So let me ask you something
about I always feel that writers anddirectors are often like profits of sorts for
society, like always kind of showingthe rest of the world possibly what's especially
because you're society sociology like the future. Like I think one of the best

(08:03):
people that I've always seen, wellone of them more contemporary still, but
Spielberg always He's told so many storiesthat were way ahead of what was going
to happen, and then they kindof did happen. And I I want
to know, is that where youfeel that you that directors have that You're

(08:24):
not gonna put that pressure on yourself, but that's something that you guys do,
directors and writers kind of putting onyour shoulders to tell the future about
what possibly we should be ready for, what can happen. Part of its
entertainment, part of it's kind of, hey, this is the possible future.

(08:45):
You're not Isaac Asimov, but Imean you're you're there. You haven't
in any of your projects, butyou you can tell that and do you
especially because of your background, yoursociology stuff. Is that something that you
feel that you want to do maybeas your duty, you're looking forward to
doing that. Well, that's interestingbecause so much of projects at different stages

(09:11):
or things that people want to getmade. I mean, you know,
the studio or even if it's independentfinancing that people willing to put their money
into. So I have all mydream projects. I have things I'm developing
that you know, you go,I'd love to tell this story, and
then you go around trying to seewho's going to help finance it. I
think that in first, I liketo give more credit to writers and directors.
All the directors out there won't likehearing that, but and maybe because

(09:35):
I am both, but yeah,I do feel that we don't give enough
credit to the writer and directors becausethe weird status symbol. I don't know
what it is. You know,people often like when I do platforms,
will ask me questions as a director, and I always want to say,
well, ask the writer. Nowsometimes I am the writer, and then
I'll say, okay, then it'sfair because I created this. But so

(09:56):
when it comes to like trying toI don't like to say educate the people,
but I think move, move peopleand inspire. Uh. Yes,
we're you're you're forward thinking. Imean, even if you're doing a period
peace, you're trying to project somethingof either the presence of the future and

(10:18):
give I don't again, guidance yourown idea of it, like you're you
know, like you say, beinga prophet. You That's why often I
have found like when I'm going upwith a story, I will find out
that five other writers have that exactsame story and it's a totally original story
not out there yet, but throughthe grape vine you find out you know,
wow, I can't believe we're allexact, I mean real close in

(10:39):
terms of what we're about to say. So that zekegeist really is exists and
you suddenly are like, wow,I guess I'm tuning into something. And
you know that happened to me justtwo years ago. His girlfriend came up
with the concept. She said,we should we should do the we should
redo the equalizer, and I wewrite, I love right, I write

(11:01):
constantly. So I basically took thebull about the horns and I rewrote the
Equalizer with a female lead, butI made it in the future, and
I started creating all like I tookwhat we have now with technology and I
started trying to figure out where thingsare going to be in fifteen twenty years
and creating new concepts. And Iwrote this script and literally like a few

(11:24):
days after I finished it, itgot announced that Queen Latifa was doing The
Equalizer with a female lead. That'sso crazy that you said that, because
that exact thing happened. I alwaystell him, Oh damn, that's a

(11:46):
good one, and I gotta behonest. My version is much better.
It's futuristic. There's this it's notso as a female lead, which is
that I was like a female becausethe original Equalizer, if you don't people
don't remember it was it was aBritish dude as a male. It was
an older dude as a male lead. And but I love that you said
that, because that happens. Yeah, now you're I want to hear again

(12:11):
because a lot of actors listening tothis show. You were talking about these
actors in stand singers and did youget people from broadwaar or um. Well,
you know, we had Laura Wiggins, who was, uh, you
know, from Shameless. Yeah,and I happened to know her manager and

(12:31):
I was a big fan of herfrom the show. And her manager said,
what about Laura Wiggins. I lovebecause I talked to him before about
wiring her for some other things andday and I said, but you know,
but we need a singer. Hesaid he didn't know Laura's as a
singer, and I so suddenly theysang me tapes of her singing, you
know. And and that's the samewith Greg Henry. Uh he's uh,

(12:54):
you know, from Guardian the Galaxy, a lot of stuff. He is
in a band he performed. Ididn't know this. You never know.
So uh so for a lot ofthe people. Marshall Williams, he's from
Glee And again we actually auditioned himfor a different role and he was fantastic
playing a tough, rough guy anduh and so we were really close.

(13:18):
I think we actually wanted to makehim an offer. And then suddenly someone
said, hey, I want becausesomeone else had fallen out, and they
said, let's look at him forplaying this male lead, the male singing
lead. And so I watched histape and I love it. I'm going,
great, I don't even realize thesame actor who I already was in
love with playing the tough guy.Oh my god, I was playing.

(13:41):
But he's a singer. And I'mgoing, oh, yeah, that's right
Glee because I was a fan ofGlee. I said, yeah, yeah,
I remember him in Glee. Ohyeah, it turns the same actor.
So these guys. It's interesting,like when you're looking for singers and
sometimes dancers and you don't realize theseI mean, I just talked to an
actress this the other day who remindedme because I asked her in a movie
a couple of years ago, andshe said, you know, uh,

(14:03):
people, my agent was saying,how when I got the part, you
guys hired me because I'm a reallygood dancer. Not to remind her,
I said, you know what,when you came in an audition, our
biggest concern was can she dance?Because she was such a great actress and
we didn't even know she was adancer, but we were so in love
with her, and then we thought, well, let's put it through the
you know, the dancing audition,and in terms, that was her thing

(14:24):
was a dancer, and she wasyou know, like stretching, and so
thank you for transitioning to that,because that's what I wanted. A lot
of people here, because a lotof actors listen to shows. What is
your the audition process for you whenyou're when you're on the other side of
the table, what do you lookfor in actors when they come in,
whether it's on tape or in person. They want to learn, they want

(14:46):
to learn from directors. Well,yeah, that's because I was watching a
lot of shit and it's not talentthat directors are looking for. Because I'm
like, watching this shit going,I think you stud that's fucking kidding me.
It's gotten worse and worse. AndI'll say it, I don't care
who hears me. Everybody. Everyso often you'll get that film, you'll

(15:07):
get that show you Where the Wholeyou know, Ozar zero zero zero,
you know whatever, Ma Rainey's BlackBottom, Where the Whole cat You're like,
wow, everybody is, but there'sno for me. There's no reason
why every there's so much talent.And you know she knows and he knows.
We watch a lot of stuff withgarbage actors. Garbe sorry, guys,

(15:30):
garbage, But don't what is Robert. No, we already know he
looks for quality. I can tellyou know. If a studio supersedes him
and says, no, we wantthe pretty one the can act, well,
then hey, yes, but whatdo you look for? Well,
I mean, aside from there's twodifferent levels of casting, there's casting leads

(15:50):
where their names and that's a bigstruggle. That's our biggest struggle because you
know, the money people want acertain name and you're going back and forth.
There's a shortlist, so these arepeople you don't really audition. You're
just going can we get so andselling and that. So that's one game,
and that's the toughest game because thatcan really sets the whole Tonya movie.
If you've picked the wrong person becausethe studio insisted that you have to,

(16:15):
you know, and those that rightif they give you the list.
What if they give you a listof people that you think all five of
them are crap actors? Well,and if they say the only way we
finance the movie is you pick someoneoff that list and you pick the best
point for those of you listening,because I have to clarify some types of
people. When he says this isthe non audition parts. So they'll have

(16:36):
a little list of people, theirdream people for those parts, and they
have to go call their agents,their team and negotiate so many different deals.
Well are they even available because theyprobably have three other projects going.
Are they gonna do they want theright money, do they have the right
accommodations. I mean, there's somany different factors that come in and if
that happens to work out, thenthey get them. And then there's the

(16:59):
others. Yeah, then there's likeall the other parts in a movie,
and they could be some fairly bigparts. But uh, and those people
are the ones that are coming inuh to read and or self tape.
So when someone comes in often thenat that level, I'm not familiar with
them other than and you know,you literally could have hundreds of people,
so you don't you can't do alot of research. You're really someone's coming

(17:21):
in. Casting directors hopefully vetted themalready. That's the normal process. They've
already gone through one session where I'mnot there. The casting directors now they've
come back with this list. Sowhen someone comes in, you're really just
looking. You can feel it likethat's my It's like when I don't want
to compare this to shopping for shoes, because it's something that you know.

(17:48):
I mean, like with my wifeand I when we go shopping, I
see something, it's done, She'slike, shouldn't we try on ten more
pairs? Should we know? That'sit? I know that and uh.
And when I'm casting someone comes inexactly and it takes I'm not saying they
haven't spoken, they haven't open themouth, well, but no, and

(18:11):
the way they speak like they comein and they they say they're hello,
Hi, yes, you know,and as I'm just looking at them,
there's an energy. Yes, wow, thank you energy. Thank you for
saying that. Because I teach actorsall the time. I teach actors.
I've been teach actors fears, andthat's what I teach audition process and that's
exactly. That's sometimes you make youget it before you even do the audition.
Yeah, it's the way you walkin the room and the energy.

(18:34):
Yeah, you just heard this froma director who is accomplished and is talented
and knows what he's talking about.He just said it. Yeah, And
it's I love the the the theshoe analogy because it's true. You look
at sometimes there's shoes like racks ofme're like and all of a sudden,

(18:56):
one just pulls you and you're like, oh, this is the one.
Yeah, you don't know what itis. It's an energy, it's it
hits you. So when they walkin the room, then before they even
do the audition, it's the waythey greet you and talk and an energy,
and it's a confidence, not tooconfident, but not too shy,
not insecurity is not attractive, buttoo caught much confidences in either. It's

(19:18):
middle ground. And then let's talkabout the talent part. When they open
their mouth for the audition. Well, see, the thing there is that
it's always different, and sometimes there'sa role where they are that role.
They've walked in, you know,they have the sides and they're they're that
role. But I've had now numerouscases where an actor comes in and for

(19:41):
a part and they feel like they'renailing it. The agents everyone's really talk
them up, and I'll say,can you come back in an hour and
do this other character and just takethese sides, And they come back and
they'll nail that other character, andthey're all thinking, but I don't see
myself that way. So no,was there in you. I could see
it, And so that's what I'msaying, like you're looking at a person

(20:04):
and actors think they know, youknow this is I'm seeing because I also
they don't know my ultimate dream ofwho that character is exactly, so I
have an image in my mind thatthey don't. I had a choreographer in
fact, when I met him todiscuss choreography because we were going to hire
him or quite possibly hire him,and he always likes to tell this story

(20:26):
showtime, wonderful choreographer and uh,he said. During this interview with him,
I kept looking at him strange,and at the end of the year,
I said to him, have youbeen an acting? He said,
well, you know, I'm achoreographer. I'm a dancer. I said,
yeah, it's okay. You knowwhat I want. I want you
to read for this character in thein the movie and he's like, oh,

(20:51):
okay. So then he went homeand he opened it and he realized
it was one of the leads.He said, what happened? Like how?
But I just watched him and hehad this beautiful energy the whole time,
and I knew he was gonna bea lot of dance movies you're gonna
work with people haven't had a lotof acting experience, but you see the
energy the character and in that movie, that's I think every one's favorite character,

(21:12):
Istime's character. And you saw it, and he saw it. He
didn't, you know. He wasshocked. And when we then did his
audition, he clammed up and uhyou know, the producers they were like,
what are you talking about? Youknow? So I had him come
back on audition on a Saturday anduh and the trick for him, I

(21:36):
said, look at when you comeinto this scene. Before you come in,
I want you to dance the character. And he's like, well,
I said, just you know,because he's a great interpretive dancer. And
uh so he literally I said,just as in fact, dance through the
whole thing, like don't sit,don't settle, wow, let your dancing
happen. And then he his confidencewas there because he's a great dancing dancing.

(21:57):
He was talking and dancing and thenit was okay, now it's less
of the dancing more of the talkingpart, but but still move and boom.
He you know, he did.He get the part the part right.
So this is a great thing foryou to share as a director as
well, is that directors do havea huge spirit because you have powerful producers

(22:21):
behind you were going, sorry,Robert, this guy sucks, and you're
like no. So it's also importantto know that it takes sometimes a director
to fight for someone that they reallybelieve is the right guy for that for
it to happen. It doesn't,you know. And and and that's tough.
It's tough to get a director onyour side that could that would you

(22:42):
know, unless they're Scorsese or youor one of these guys that have been
doing it a long time. Andyou guys have the power to do that.
The little guy who's the new directormay not have that ability. Right.
That's no, that's very true.And it is a fight I have
fought for actors, uh, thatthe studio has for various reasons, even
ethnically. This is he's the wrongethnic type for this. Oh yeah,

(23:07):
and I want I want to avoidany detail in that, you know.
But and then and then fighting forit, uh. And the person did
get the part and I won't sayhis ethnicity, he'll give away the movie.
And he got the part. Andeveryone loved them. The studio loved
them. Everybody loved them. Inthe part, but you know, there
was real resistance to that particular ethnictype playing that lead. So I want

(23:30):
to talk about that because I thinkit's important we put the put on a
table when it comes to subconscious bias, right, Like, how do you
as a director, um, getpast or have you gotten past any that
you had to you know, overcomeany subconscious bias. And the reason why
I'm asking that is because when youthink about it, like, for instance,

(23:52):
myself, I am Jamaican born Jamaica, but I was raised in America,
right, Um, I have aslight accent to some of them when
you walk into a room a lotof times or just people no matter the
culture that you are, people havean image in their mind. So like
what I come up across, notnow as much, but in the past

(24:15):
was, oh you're Jamaicans, SoJamaicans are, Um you know three things?
Bob Marley, you smoke weed?Are you funny? Right? And
You're like, well, not reallybecause I've never and I love Bob Marley
for sure, But you walk inthe room and people have a certain subconscious

(24:37):
I mean, even casting, youknow, I have a bias already of
you know, they're already paying acanvas of who you are, right and
so as a director, do youhow do you get past any subconscious bass
if you have any? Right?Let me first off, we all do
have them, yes, as humanbeings. Yeah, but I think that

(25:00):
it's about the work you're doing onyourself and uh, and this goes beyond
being a director. This, thisis about being a human being. So
uh, to be a more fullyrealized human you have to think beyond your
personal biases. You have to dothat. Um. So as a director,

(25:21):
that helped me obviously when I knowwhether I'm casting, also when i'm
writing, so and I don't wantto feel like I'm tooting or sound like
I'm tooting my own horn. ButI've done for me a lot of that
kind of work, So I'm I'maware of that, and I'm I don't
catch myself often where at some pointsomeone says to me, why would you

(25:42):
make that choice? So what wherewas the bias in that? I tend
to be the one saying, youknow, why can't that person play that?
I couldn't tell you've done that orI already knew that the minute we
talked first time. Yeah, butyou just you just you've already either you
did the work or you're born likethat, because I knew immediately we talked,
is like this guy's in a differentlevel. Uh, well, I

(26:03):
don't know what born. I thinkwe do do work. I mean there
is certain of obviously we all haveour own certain personality traits. But I've
had the good fortune of like myfather's Nigerian traveled around the world and then
settled in this small town. AndI remember my dad would tell us a
story when if someone in my townwas all white, we were the first
black family. So if someone wouldsay something derogatory to us, my dad's

(26:27):
whole thing is he would say tothat person, well, where are you
originally from? You know, andgo, well, uh, you know,
my my parents were from Italy andwhere where in Italy? And say,
oh, from this part of Italy? Well what what what town exactly
is? Well I think my grandparentswere from would have name of the town,
and my dad said, you know, I've been to Italy and I've

(26:48):
been to that town, and thepeople in that town would be ashamed of
you. It just shot and cold. And through that education, I start
to realize that global link. Istart to see all of us like.
So that's why I never I neverhad a lot of that feeling of like
with people's racism towards me because Ialways see it as ignorant so when it

(27:10):
comes, but then I have tobe aware of my own if I am
doing that to someone else. Andthat's where it starts. Why at a
young age I started to I thinkjust appreciation. That makes sense because you
were composed, you learned young,you saw it. Yeah right away,
people are trying to do that tous. Wow. But through that method
of seeing I was able to startto look for the bigger pictures. So

(27:32):
I think that when I cast,I sometimes will have a role in front
of me. It says as aman, I say, why does it
have to be a man? Whycan't this be a woman? Which you
you honestly, I don't know thepercentage, but you are ten percent of
this business. See, theater ismore open to crossing, and but you
are the rare. We need moreof that. Again, Hollywood needs more
of that because they always play itsafe. They always say, well,

(27:56):
this is what we need. Butit has changed a lot. I mean
if we if we say it hasn't, then we're doing a disservice to what
I mean right now. I meanas far as the Annenberg's you know,
the Annenberg Film School, So therehas a study every year of the number
of African Americans. It's you want, do you know the number right now
in lead roles is twenty four percentAfrican in lead roles, of all African

(28:18):
Americans in the United States thirteen percent, So you're two to one now,
and then if you take all theroles, it's at thirty to thirty four
percent, a third of all theroles. So as far as coming along
as the numbers, the numbers basedon demo, there can't be any complaint.
I tell my a, they sayyou're stepping on my I said,
I'm sorry, I don't care.I called to where I see it.

(28:40):
As far as the numbers, now, you can argue about what those roles
are and how people perceive those rolesand why they're not cast a certain way
or why they're not but I thinkthat's even changing now. So well,
I hope it's not a fat rightbecause we've gone from a year We've had

(29:00):
the pandemic, we have Black LivesMatter, We've had all these issues that
deals with race and especially black culture. So my prayer is that it's not
a fad where we're just like hotright now, right, So the Black
people are hot right now. Nextyear, the Spanish people are hot.
But you know, I pray thatwe just have a balance in our entertainment

(29:22):
culture where we're able to go.Like Robert said earlier, you know,
I'm gonna look at the script andI'm gonna look, you know, why
can an Indian man play? OrYes, we're the only industry on the
planet that doesn't hire the best forthe part. You don't look at any
sport and they're like, nah,that person's Asian, we'll hire, We'll
put them on the team. No, they hire the best for the sport.

(29:45):
Yeah, yeah, the doctors,anything, it doesn't matter what industry,
the most qualified gets it. We'rethe only industry that still doesn't hire
the most qualified technically for parts becausewe can't. We can't continue to Everything
don't need to be a fight,right, we just have to always continue
to have this fight. Yeah,of um trying to be included or given

(30:07):
permission to or you know, whateverthe situation is. So I hope that
it not only changed obviously for blackpeople, but people of color, but
just everyone in general, that wehave this healthy balance of um let the
best man win and we you know, try to well we need we have

(30:27):
the robs, we have us pushingit. Just more and more of us
pushing it and and that's it's andkeep the demos. And I agree with
it. I believe it. Youknow, if if like if there's a
certain percentage of people in this world, in this culture that live and they're
from this community, give them thatrep like twenty years ago they didn't get
that representation, you know, andespecially in the boardrooms and especially as the

(30:49):
writers, like you said, sothey can make those stories. So I
do agree with the fact that Ihope it's not a fad. I don't
think it is just I don't thinkit is. I think it's here.
But I think that, you know, we have to make sure that you
know, we we respect that andsay thank you for it. You know,
I think there's there's still a lotof complaints going on. I'm like,

(31:11):
really, your complaints, you're stillcomplaint because going back to culture and
color, like there is still acomplaint. I believe because like I'm fighting
for the Caribbean people in a sense, Oh, exact specific, so it's
it's not and you're finding Middle Eastern. I'm fighting Latino. We're all fighting.

(31:32):
I'm fighting for the other people manumbecause I give an example, I
wrote a script with someone right,and in the script, well, the
person I was writing with is Caucasianand writing a script together, and the
black girl in the script, andI think I shared with you last time
I was here. Um, Sothe language was you know, what's something

(31:55):
you know? Just it was awhole lot of urban language. If I
may say that now, the characteris Caribbean, right, this little girl,
she's Caribbean. They don't they don'ttalk like that. I live in
this country. I don't talk likethat. Not that I'm putting that down.
I'm just saying, don't lump everyonein the same culture. And we

(32:15):
need to see more of that onscreen. What is a little girl who
grew up in Kenya come to theUnited States sounds like what you know,
obviously based on our culture or backgroundor where she lives. Yeah, there
could be you know, assimilation somewhere. But don't lump every Spanish person,
every black person in the same culture. And so I think it's so important.

(32:37):
I mean I'm speaking to myself,just as art education to you know,
to be conscious of that. SoI think people are still kind of
complaining, if I may say,because they're not seeing themselves. That's the
point, you know, No,I don't know. No, that was
that was That's a very important point, and that's very valid for war rats.

(33:00):
I'm so glad you said that.Thank you. That's very important that
everyone realizes that. Now we onlyhave a few minutes because you've got to
get his phone call. So I'mgoing to close it out now. So
I want to I want one lastthing now, young director, if a
young director came to town right now, a bunch of young directors came to
town right now in this twenty twentyone compared to when you got here in
ninety two, and then like RobertMan, what do you recommend? What

(33:22):
do I do? What are thesteps I need to take at this point
to have success in this business andmake something happen? What should you tell
him? Well, as I alwayssay, if I'm talking to a group
of fifty people, there's fifty differentpaths because everyone's path is unique. And
I also remind people that, ofcourse we always talk about you gotta do
the work, put in the work. But luck is such a huge factor.
Yes so, and that's why Ialways hate when talking about my story

(33:44):
or someone story, they always leaveout the luck part. You know,
like Norman Jews and the director whohas such a beautiful story, Wow,
you know to make a phone call. Though you were his student and a
talented student, you have been good. But you know, My point is
that if we don't mention that alot of people are feeling self defeated,
like why isn't not happening for me? Well, if you're putting in the

(34:06):
work, you are actually, ina certain sense waiting for that little magic
moment to happen. But you haveto be ready and putting in the work.
For a director, specifically, theone advice I give and some have
taken it and some don't, isalready claim it. Own it, because
when you own it, you startsay I am a director and I don't
care you get whatever little camera youshoot a little five minute short. You'll

(34:30):
be shocked how many people will gatheraround you because everyone's looking to do something
yes and true. And it's reallyhard to call yourself a director until you
you're at a certain level and youhave to call it early because then you're
going to get supported around you.People are gonna go, oh, that's
the director. So true. Sothat's what to tell actors to all the
time, because when an actor firststarts out the same thing. There was

(34:52):
some trying to be an actor.No, you're an actor, that's right.
It's the same thing. Own itright away that I hadn't done a
job. Yeah, I'm like,I'm an actor, and it's friends around
me be like, well, I'mtrying to be like, no, you're
not. You're an actor. That'sright, own it. And then that's
so that's amazing. And for awriter, what about the well, the
writer was a little easier on acertain level because you can just start.

(35:13):
You can always create, you canyour writing and C and C. The
thing that comes together is if you'reout there putting it out there that you're
this writer, what you're gonna dois find that person who's saying, I'm
a director. Let's get together,let's start doing some things. And you
know, when I first came toLa I had a great group of friends
that hung out at the Insomnia Cafeand all like all of a sudden,

(35:37):
like yeah, I must have metyou there. I used to go to
SMNIA because it stipends like it wasthe place because you look familiar and you
know that group of friends. Uh, we hung out, we read each
other's scripts, we passed everything around. We gave tips to Wood and we
got some information what was going on. And so building that can unity is

(36:00):
really because if you get to isolate, you can't be isolated in Hollywood rule
number one. You've got to getout there and make friends. Because one
contact leads to another contact, setanother contact. You gotta keep going.
We're not saying go to clubs andparty. No, we're saying go to
be productive, like in productive settingslike Insom's right. Yeah, my gosh,

(36:23):
thank you so much for saying that. Now, now this is the
one last thing from the director standpoint, and then I close it up on
some questions, some fun questions.Now, this is something I was talking
to Anthony about it earlier. Nowit just came out in the news.
Um, this British actor who wona Bathti. I'm sure you probably saw
on the news. Do you knowwho I'm talking about. He's a director

(36:44):
actor. He won a Bathta.And then like a few days before that,
like twenty women came forward and accusedhim some stuff um people like Josh
Weed and all of a sudden,Polanski, Woody, Allen, Brian Singer,
Cosby's, Weinstein's, Kevin Spacey's,some of these people are very guilty.
But I feel like, all ofa sudden, now it's gotten to

(37:05):
the point where so the director isthe head of the ship on set and
we all know that for those whodon't, who don't know the directors running
the show, and you know,it's like any organization, it's a it's
a pyramid and goes up to thetop. Now have you thought about it
or are you even worried? Becauseyou know, you seem like a totally
stand up dude with it full ofintegrity and you live a very pure life.

(37:29):
But even that type of person,I feel sometimes I worry now seeing
these things happen that if you winkit someone the wrong way, you give
someone a hug the wrong way,that there could be repercussions. And being
in the head of the ship nowdirecting, directing, producing, writing,
how do you feel the future isor are you even worried that you could

(37:51):
just be friendly and it gets misconstruedin the future. You know, I
don't worry about it because if you'rehalfway intelligent, you know the difference,
you really do. I don't reallybelieve that there are too many people that
are going off the deep end ofthese issues and they didn't know what they
were doing. Yes, like thatdefense doesn't work for me when you're casting.

(38:15):
I mean, now, yeah,we're more cautious. Um. I've
been on shows where I'll have theactors come to my hotel to either do
This isn't be casting. This islike we're they're hired, but we're let's
work on some scenes. And usuallyI'm saying, you know, in a
large suite and you feel you've gota lot of room, it's convenient.

(38:36):
Uh, but then you have tohave your assistant there. You just have
to. That's not like you don't. Yeah, because all of a sudden,
you win an Academy award and thatsame person, it's like, hey,
I was in his hotel room,blah blah, just the two of
us. Yeah, it's their wordagainst yours. Yeah, it's just you
know, it's also not even thatthat they're going to be my word against
yours. My sisters there to proveit it's just for everyone's comfort level.

(38:59):
Yes, you know, yes,one of the things that's very professional.
Yeah. One of the things thatI think is an unfortunate backlash to this,
uh, because I had this recentlywhen I was working on a movie
and I was totally comfortable to sayto the male lead actor, Hey,
let's grab dinner. Yes, AndI realized, I don't ever invite the
female lead dinner actress out to dinnerlike just the two of us. I

(39:21):
just don't do well because you know, it could be seen as inappropriate And
I think, which is there,because you know that's sexist almost. Yeah,
it's a first thing that's happening.So I have been trying to think
that through. It sounds like aMike Pence thing, you know, like
I can't have dinner with it.But you know, but only because you
know, I may tell you whenyou started on a project, you now

(39:43):
have to sign all these papers aboutthose issues. But it's outrageous because what
happens is, like you said,I got in trouble for that and it
was a very innocent thing and Icouldn't believe like the whole studio. I'm
not going to mention what there wasbut I had asked, and believe me,
I had no attraction. I wasjust we always used to like go

(40:05):
out in groups or whatever. AndI didn't even say specifically that girl,
that woman. I just said,Hey, I don't know this city.
Are you from this city? Yeah? What are the good restaurants? These
are the good So let's let's allgo. I made it very clear that
it was. But I almost gotfired. I almost had my career ruined

(40:25):
over that. That's outrageous that Ican't say to somebody that another partner in
crime on the show happens to beof the other side. And how do
they know I'm not gay? Right? You know what I mean? I
mean, I mean, I don'tknow. How do they know I'm just
I'm making a move on her,I'm gay? Maybe they don't know that.
How do they know I'm not?I mean, it's outraged. But

(40:46):
ten years ago, we didn't haveto worry about it. Right, this
is the new thing, and sonow that's what I wanted to ask you,
is being the head of a shipand more and more you're gonna be
helming him. Yeah, that's whatyou're doing. You're you're at the top
now. Producer right, director,there's there's always the opportunity that someone gets
misconstrued. So is that something thatyou always have in the back of your
mind. Now, like you said, I don't I can't invite them to

(41:07):
dinner. Yeah, well, Imean I'm trying to say something. We're
still all navigating. I'm even tryingto sort of figure out where are the
lines when it comes to that,you know, and you're right, someone
could be gay, you don't know. So I could say to another actor,
hey, let's go to dinner amale actor, and he could be
gay and think, okay, I'mjust coming onto him. Absolutely, and

(41:30):
it's not fair to the person tryingto be nice. Right. I'm a
hugger because it's my culture. Sincewhen I'm not Japanese. Man, if
I'm in Japan, I'll bow becausethat's what they do in Japan. I
respect you. In my culture,we kiss people we don't even know.
So why is your culture? NowWe're getting just a real crazy shit.
Maybe maybe in Nigeria, they theylift me up from the ground and like

(41:54):
certain African cultures, you know,but certain African cultures may have I have
to respect their exactly. Why iswhy is why? Why? Oh,
you can't touch me, but inmy culture you can. In Italy you
can. So why is it allthe sudden? And I need to know
who's making these decisions? What brainchildis saying, Oh, we're gonna is
it the lawyers, because I'm gonnamess someone up to a still. I'm

(42:16):
a big hugger. And I actuallylearned it from him. I learned it
from you. So we were ona TV series years ago and ABC.
It's the pictures behind him if youwant to look HOSPITALI was on it with
us, you know, Maharst Sohe was on it with us, and
he used to just hug everybody.And I'm a big hugger. But and
he still denies this, but Iused to watch it. He would hug
some people on the crew and peoplewould be like people. Some people would

(42:39):
be so many people would be uncomfortable. And I didn't understand why you want
to tell me you want to hugYou're getting But that goes back to culturally,
that's they didn't understand. But guesswhat they No, you didn't do
that. They could tell me Idon't. I'm not a hugger and people
have done that. I'm like,okay, buddy, and then guess what
happens later after where one time thathappened? And I would always get ice

(43:02):
cream, like I always had myfriend who had this ice cream company.
He's like the best ice cream.He would come and set up shop and
I would do this a treat whenI had series regular money, you know,
and they would give the whole set. And the people that asked me
not to hug him, everybody washugging me. Thank you for my ice
cream. I didn't go near thosepeople, and I got in trouble for
that. The same people that wentto the studio and said I don't want

(43:25):
him hugging me then went to themand said, he excluded us from giving
us a hug. He's this,he's that here. Can you believe that?
It's but we have to stand outthe number. We have to be
careful. This is my suggestion.I'm not a therapist, I'm not a
counselor, but this is just ifyou don't know, especially a female that
you just you met recently, youdon't know, sometimes it's appropriate to say,

(43:49):
oh, can I give you ahug? I just want to hug
you, or whatever the case is, you know, rather than ask and
that feel that yeah, so asoh, no, for sure, you
know, and I think genuinely too, like you know, you disperse from
someone and we live in a culture. I mean, coming from Jamaica,
I wasn't used to hugs when Icame here because our culture wasn't a hugging

(44:12):
culture. You're not, you know. I love you men, I pay
for your food, I sent youto school. You should be happy.
But you knew your parents loved you, you know. But so when I
came here and everyone was just likehi, I'm like, what is this?
But then obviously living here for awhile, you get used to that.
So I'm just saying in general,it's just okay if you're not sure

(44:36):
to just ask someone like hey,you know, you know, and then
normally people when it's natural, itjust happened simultaneously. There's no weird you
feel you feel, yeah, youkind of feel it or sense you know.
That's so let's let's get him going, because he has to go to
his his his thing. He's gotto go to Budapes, so you know,
that's right, He's got to goto Budapest. This is the machine

(45:00):
boothing pish. He's hungry, that'sabout that he always breaks into accents and
he hasn't. Yeah, I'm surprisedhe's going to shoot something cute. Okay,
he's great with accents. So thisis I always these are a bullet
point questions I asked at the end. I kind of stole the idea from
James Lipton, remember, and butI created more contemporary questions. Didn't steal

(45:21):
his questions, but the same Myconcept. First thing is what are three
things I'm finding your grocery cart?Three things in my grocery cart? Yeah,
you're gonna find eggs. I haveeggs every day. You canna find
eggs, bread, nothing weird?Um, trying to think, well,
so I head to you that's importantsome froit or vegetable. Okay, well

(45:45):
yeah for now on looking at otherpeople's grocery carts and you learn. Yeah,
you can learn so much from somethingby what's in the cart. What
are your top three bands or musicalartists of all time? For you?
That your top three so hard becauseI'm always thinking about that at the moment.
How about today right now? Oh? Well, yeah, I mean,

(46:05):
uh Samuel Barber okay, okay,um uh Take five that album is
my favorite. Take five wow ye, holy cow, that's probably my favorite
album. Very talented. Yeah andum yo yo ma oh nice yoyom.
Okay, see we learned about youfrom the songs you just chose. Now

(46:27):
do you listen to those when you'rewriting or you signed? When there you
go? Perfect? I figured Ilistened to Ben Harper when I write.
Um, so, what's one songthat would be your Eye of the Tiger,
the thing that pumps you have toput you over the mountain? Oh
wow, um yeah, what's again? I go back to Take five?
Okay, when I put that onthat it puts, it stands the hair

(46:52):
up on your Okay, anything bydebut perfect? Take five? Now,
oh the jazz music, that's Takefive. Yeah, it's his album.
And that's that song from the album, which is probably my favorite. I
thought, you, you know what, that just shows you. I thought
you were talking about the Black acapellagroup take No No. Do you thought
from the nineties the R and Bgroup? Yeah, R and B group

(47:13):
called Tech five. You kept sayingTake five, and I thought it was
like, huh, there's just likethey were called Take five. They were
take T T A K E.Take five like Take five. That's what
he said, I thought you saidtech five. No, take five.
Take five, that's what it's aIt's an espression of music. Yeah,

(47:35):
exactly, take five before you comeback. It's a break, exactly,
a break. Yeah. What whatwas your inspiration for what you do now?
Like writing directing? Was it somebody? Was it something like? What
catapuls you in this direction? Thatthat's just something that's been in me since
I was a baby. You wereborn with it. There you go.
And what is your dream genre towrite and direct? Like your dream genre?

(48:02):
Um? Wow, it would probablybe a dramatic sci fi but dramatic,
like very dramatic story but set ina sci fi. Oh that's freaking
there. You good? Okay?And what is something that you do for
yourself daily or even a few timesa week? Because we don't we're always

(48:22):
running around so fast and doing this. Do you ever take time and just
pamper yourself and take care of yourself? Um? Well yeah, when I
can. I mean, swimming ismy favorite, okay, but not just
lately. I haven't been around thepool but m But no other than that,
it is really just like picking uplike I like to read nonfiction and

(48:46):
that's really my jam I'll just sitthere. You go, well, writers
got to read too. Yeah,yeah, I don't read. There's a
lot of novels because if I startreading a novel, I feel guilty that
I should be writing. So it'salways hard for me. And it's good
exactly. Writing there you're like,oh my gosh, this guy's good.
A girl, I need to writeone exactly right now here. You need
to read things to educate you soyou can write something yourself exactly. Okay.

(49:08):
Statement that would describe your twenty twentyOh, describe my twenty twenty.
Wow, I have two views.So a statement because on one end I
go delirious. It was like,I'm my mind sort of fell apart truly.
But I think that's something I'm morerecently accepting. I go this,

(49:28):
I didn't realize until more recently.Yeah, because otherwise, because I was
somewhat productive initially. I did somewriting, I got some stuff out,
but I've come to conclude like I'mactually trying to rebuild myself. I love.
That's a great answer. That's agood one. Two more statement that
would describe your next decade. Umstatement that'll describe it, well, this

(49:58):
bountiful I'm planning, doing a lotand a lot of good stuff. Absolutely,
Yes you are, Yes, youare. This guy is and the
last one. If you can goback two minutes in time and face your
fourth, fifth, sixth grade littleself two minutes, what would you tell
him? Hmm. That's a goodone, because I have so many different

(50:22):
forms of advice I could have used, um, but primarily I would just
probably said keep working on the singing. Um. Yeah, I you know,
because my mom told me not tosing, and so I listened,
and I really would love to havebeen a singer, and so I think,

(50:44):
yeah, I would have said,can you listen, don't stop?
Why did she say that? Becauseyou were? She thought you sounded not
so good. I sucked. Yeah. My brother was a talented singer,
and I think she had the comparison, and so she was. He just
probably needed to have a vote coolcoach exactly. That's what I'm saying.
It so far less you had thepassion for it. Yeah, oh wow,

(51:06):
So keep on singing, keep onsinging. Yes, and that is
rather too, That's what's so keepon singing, Josee Marie Anthony is easy.
This America's podcaster Kirkus serris on what'syour name? Getting the podcast?
Thank you Robert for coming in.And what is this? What is this
thing that we should be looking outfor that you're about to take off and

(51:28):
do. What's it called the project? Oh, it's called Soul, bott
and Soul. We're gonna be lookingout for that. On is it that?
The thing I'm directing right now ispH Yeah, with Natasha Henstrick,
which is his friend's shot. Sothank you very much for listening, We
love you, and have a goodnight.

All Episodes

The Zeitgeist in Hollywood - with Rob Adetuyi - Part II

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

The Joe Rogan Experience

What Are We Even Doing? with Kyle MacLachlan

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Zeitgeist in Hollywood - with Rob Adetuyi - Part II