Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to Mickey Mouse and my host ellis my mess
friend Goofy. How you doing, buddy? It's a w we
no longer have the first pick in the NFL draft.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Boy, I know you ain't about to start this show
with that wack claim trolling you just.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Damn I'm starting. I'm gonna Mickey Mouse Club. That's out
this stream. Welcome in, Enjoy you wind, Cassie Man. Mmmm
the fatigue. I'm good to see you. You good to
see me. How are we doing? I'm ready for this
w to be celebrated. How you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
What's that? A reference to black fatigue? Butop, I tell
you can't get nothing, Bobby Low, I'm doing good man.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I'm glad.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I want I want to talk. I want to talk
more about this. Jackson Dorrit so good. Jackson dort Jackon
Dorton like a real quarterback. He do.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Jackson Darry definitely showed me why we're looking for somebody
in this all season. Damn.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
How about we saw how about we saw a two
man rout concept, something that you know we've kind of
been advocating for in this show. I mean, I know,
y'all like these other podcasts and these other articles, who
was the only two people that were telling you that
we need to get some better stuff from the coaching staff.
Where everybody was leaning on on Radler was.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
There was a certain person who said that that conversation
didn't really make sense because they were doing you know,
left right reprogressions. I'm like, well, maybe that's give it
a shot.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
And yet and yet, you know, we don't get enough love.
And yet it's all good. You know them, you know them.
You know these boys ain't about to get no five
turnover games. Yeah, listen, we are starting with the hate.
I know we just won, but we got you know
them boys ain't about to get five turnovers. You get
(02:14):
to see no quarterback drop the ball off, I mistake
like that for come on, man, come, I still saw
way too much stuff. You know what I'm saying that.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
It is kind of wild though, because every time we've lost,
we talked about the positives that we saw and the loss,
and now that we finally won, we're like, damn, they
went oh for three in the red zone, oh for
two inside the ten, Like they got five turnovers and
still only got twenty six points.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
The defense man I'm looking at I'm looking at some
of this week play calling. Listen, there's certain points in
that game. I'm I'm like, Sean Payton goes for that,
Sean Payton takes that. Meanwhile it flashed across my screen,
then goes for a two point conversion. Listen questions. There
were out of situation like that played before half short
(03:02):
play the camaro and then you come out, and then
the next play the announcements of like, yeah, this is
probably a spot where they're gonna throw a shot at
in the in the rezone, the fade in the red zone.
If they can call it, so can everybody else. What
the hell was the play before that? Stupid? That's what
it was. Or as Kellen Moore would say, goofy, that
was a goofy play called keln That's what that was.
(03:23):
That was a goofy play call. There were more goofy
decisions that were made throughout this game, but with the fun. Finally,
think is when they started doing things that looked better. Wow,
what do you do an explosive play out of a
two man route concept?
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah? Very nice, man.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I was like the biggest positive.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I mean I would say I give it a little
bit more positive. It was nice to see another team
have pre snapties worse than New Orleans.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
The only difference between us is we seem to have
fixed some of that stuff. Yeah, exactly one took it
between us and the Giants is coaching. Give them credit
on that we fixed the mistakes and adjust.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I really want to highlight Staley today, honestly, like if
I had to give some positive to integrate Staley. Now
that doesn't mean that I don't think Howden, Sanker, kool
Aid all stepped up in major ways and deserved shoutouts
for it. But I know you would talk that we
were worried about Howard, you know, coming in, how is
he gonna look? Because Reid went down early. But New
(04:21):
Orleans held New York to thirty percent on third down.
That's a huge win. Now, they had a problem when
it came to the red zone. They let him score a
couple of TVs and such. But this was a disciplined team.
You didn't see a lot of DPI, a lot of
hands shout to pauls and Deebo on the other side
of the of the field over here. Saints had less
penalties than the Giants did this game, and a lot
(04:42):
that was the defense playing very clean and in situations
that were pure pass And one of those penalties was
the most BS penalty of the year, Carl Granderson getting
a sack right from him, like literally literally, how they
teach you to hit a quarterback? Now hit him with
your arm and your shoulder, don't put you wait on
him all that other stuff. Still got a damn penalty
at that point. Drive his ass and the turf Brett
(05:05):
Farva's ass and get the penalty and bruises ribs. If
that's what you're gonna call, I mean, you can't sack
cleaner than he did. And a beautiful win too.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no, don't get
me wrong. Now, looking at the defense, I'll just add
to that there was several times where Jackson Dodd had
about five or six seconds.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah. Absolutely, pressure is still a problem.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
This team would play fewer snaps, This defense would play
fewer snaps if they had an elite pass rusher. Oh
where's he at? He's he's he's over there on the sideline.
And first we had guy the guy to unlock this defense. Now,
as I'm looking at this defense, looking at the way
they plan, I love the way the young guys came
together that secondary. The way they played, you got you
(06:00):
got a young player, and how you got Senka stepping up.
You've got another fourth round picking Riley playing. They jailed
well in the secondary. Alonte missed fewer tackles. They jailed
well in the secondary. You loved seeing that come together.
And yet I'm looking at them like they're missing a
pass rusher.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah it's that look, it's that Keenan Lewis knee all
over again. But now it's just Chase young calf like
we need it. But for whatever reason, for the past
six years, maybe it's the curse of Trey Henderson because
they let him go. They've tried to replace him four
times now, and all four.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Times Blake Group ain't making it as the as the
kicker for the rest of the season.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I'm gonna just yeah, I know we bounced it around
a little bit, but I agree Blake Group be missing
two field goals, including one right up front again. Now,
I will give him a little bit of credit that that,
you know, five foot six, one hundred and thirty pounds
wet Man stopped.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
While he was a captain and made that play that
I was ready to give him credit up until that
point I was I had already wrote what I.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Wrote until he missed another field goal.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Until he missed the other field going, I'm like, no,
you're not making it. You're not making it at the
for the end of the season. Now, I don't care
if you're a captain or not. That's listen, that's nineteen
points straightway three, six, nine, twelve, fifteen. How many of
the miss six eighteen?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Oh gosh, that's that's rough to think about. That's a
lot of points, and on the one in every game.
So out of the five games, he's missed a field
goal in four games.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
That's that's in terrible, including having a two for today.
It's like he's not getting better, he's getting worse.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, I mean, it's just right, Like I really will
suspect the effort, but I can't deny your logic. I mean, like,
what am I going to say? I mean, the dude's missing.
It's wild. He'll hit a fifty three yard or to
start the game and then miss the thirty yarder.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
It's just he's regressing, and and regression usually results in
they sell. At some point that sell regresses and then
it has to be replaced. Let me tell you something.
I'm listen. I I have to make this point. Mm hmm.
(08:20):
Not going for it. You know, I'm after the third
down conversion to Shahid. You know it's like, what fourth
quarter we get that that big third down conversion defense deflated? Right,
why not call a play action shot there instead of
that boring asra Kellen Moore gives me lebron vibes versus
(08:44):
Sean Payton. We always had more of a Jordan and
then you know he's given he's given more Lebron, and
I like, I like to see an aggressive mindset to
where you're not worried about the Granderson interference call because
you already up thirty thirty three the fifteen because you
(09:04):
went ahead and went foot on that foot down, or
you went ahead and took that deep shot and you said,
we're gonna put a dagger in him right now. We're
not gonna We're not gonna punt the ball on fourth inches.
Sean Payton goes for that. In fact, he did it
in our house when they played us.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
That's the little bit that Moore's still miss it. And
I actually used today's game. Look, come on, only use
today's game as an example because Philadelphia, who's arguably the
best team in the NFC, was up seventeen points. Denver
scores twenty one unanswered to come back and win today
with Botnicks at quarterback. That's because Sean Payton's aggressive. He
(09:39):
kept going for it. He kept putting himself in situations,
and he's just gonna tooth and nail it. He's gonna
try to win. And I need a little bit more
of that from more some of these fourth and two's.
Now he had won where he did it when they
were at the forty five yard line, they went for it,
they converted it. Great, But there's some other opportunities. I
think it's there. I get that Taysom Hill just got back.
Maybe not one hundred percent than him. You're, mister Ruiz,
(10:01):
maybe not Harbersting competent. But this team just as a whole,
not saying they got to get cute with it. They
just need to be more aggressive as all amlet's play
call in general.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
This is very accurate, and this is why the win.
I am enjoying the win, and yet I know I
want this team to have sustained success, right, And I
didn't see I saw things A lot of things that
would stop you from sustained success. You were playing a
team that was worse or just as bad as you,
(10:36):
and you did less to lose the game. And I
felt there could have been more opportunities where they tried
to win the game aggressively, and I felt too much tentativeness.
I like I said, I saw Lebron, I won't see Jordan.
I like cobD I I like Mambas in my play callers,
where they go for the juggular as a team, because
(10:57):
that's what Sirianni did with the Eagles. You think that
they went foot in our house three times straight because
it was Kellen Moore obviously doing it now that we're
seeing it, probably not that was Siriani. Yeah, and I
need to see that from him because that's a part
of his personality, part of this team that he needs
to incorporate. I need to see more of Kellen fussing
with the coaches, fussing with the referees on the sideline
(11:18):
about that Grandison call. But I need to see that
implemented into the play calling and the decision making.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I do want to hit one thing about the play
you brought up earlier. We got some comments in the
chat want to make sure we get But you talked
about that double route hitting Shaheen and how important it is,
and I agree, what was that She got it like
a tuna and mac burd. But here's I want to
give some of what I'm looking at analytically why I
(11:46):
think that needs to happen even more for Spencer, because
if you take that one play away, Spencer goes back
to averaging four and a half yards in terms of
like what we've seen. But you gave him that opportunity,
he connected on it, and you never touched it again,
and now Spencer ended up getting the numbers that I
kind of said this past Tuesday that if Spencer just
played a clean game and hit these numbers, you know,
(12:07):
right around two twenty five, two fifty yards, they were
gonna win. And I said, if they hit twenty five points,
they were gonna win, and they did. But more, if
you ever happened to pond or pond me on Ellis's podcast,
here we are why only that one play These concepts
worked for Rattler, right, The play action calls worked for Rattler.
(12:28):
Let him cook, Let him cook. I did like them
using more in the passing game. It worked more Hill
under threw the pass, which Hill does, but it worked.
I like to see that little bit of a wrinkle.
But we gotta get Shaheed and Lave in more of
those situations. Loved rashid able to get that, by the way,
had one hundred yard day. Shout out to him. Well,
(12:50):
Lave had seven catches for sixty yards. I want to
see the same thing from Chris Lave.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
And hearing you say that and play right to the
dialogue that we were having. Hearing you say that and
agree with everything that I said about color Barn how
he's not utilizing Ratler to the best of his abilities.
You had nerve enough to suggest that Jackson Dot and
Keller and Ratler, Jackson Dort's a real quarterback. He's a
(13:21):
Jackson Dort's a real quarterback. Or Jackson Dot was playing
in an offensive system that was obviously trying their best
to lean into his strengths, and he probably looked good
playing into his streets when you're clearly admitting that we
haven't been playing to Ratler's strengths enough, and so he
looks bad reading a field because that's not what he is.
(13:41):
But he looked better with a two man route concept
throwing the ball deep when you made it clear that
he should throw the ball deep, but we're expecting him to, Oh,
he's gotta be a friendshike quarterback and hit the minimal
route down the field because he sees it and he
sees the rotation. Or you can just do what he
does well and let him feel that that see that, duh?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Or Jackson Dark looks good because he actually has decent
ball placement and can do multiple reads on the field
and isn't limited to have Phil Reeds, or he.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Doesn't make it harder, but do you think that it
would have it would be easier of killing Moore played
to his standards, or if guys that are receivers that
clearly have to aid their quarterback and make the tough
catches like we've seen like we saw love today. Lovey
made some tough catches. That's what you're gonna have to
do with. Rather, you gotta support him. We know he
(14:31):
has ball location issues, we get it. He also does
a lot of things very well. Do more of that,
stupid or not stupid? Goofy.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
I agree, do more of that. But my whole statement
was that Jackson Dart has better traits and you can
see it on the field.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Heard dirt, dirt, dirt, that's a quarterback to kill out
with that be like that.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Bezl says, did you notice anything new on the way
Staley called the in terms of the defensive game? Or
d looked better because New York is asked? Or did
it look better because it was better? I would say
without seeing the blitz packages, as in getting and counting
out how many times I actually ran. They put Pete
Warner in the A gap a lot, so they had
Pete Warner do kind of like a false rush. They
(15:22):
had Pete Warner engage the center slash guard, but then
he didn't push up. He was playing spy, but instead
of him just being spy in space, they just put
him close to the line and asked them to spy
Jackson Dart. I don't think it worked very well, but
it helped clean up and allow opportunities for one on
ones for everybody else. Just a lot of those people
didn't win their one on ones. So that's kind of
(15:44):
like a pick your poison thing, Like if you don't
trust him in coverage, fine, but you put him that
close to the line, How often is he going to
run down you know, the elite runners like the Murrays
and even the Darts who can actually get out and move.
Probably not either. I didn't really like or dislike how
they're doing Warner. We'll see what the film looks like.
I think the defense was just better because you have
(16:06):
three guys really ball out and play better. You know,
you had Howden taking advantage of his snaps. You had Sanker,
who is this is the fastest progression of an open
backfield safety that I've seen in a while in terms
of like their first snaps on the field. Sanker is
looking incredibly good. And then kool Aid finally had this
game again limited reps. We'll see what it looks like
(16:28):
on tape, because obviously in broadcast you can't see alaw
of that. He's seemed to play very aggressive today as
he trusted himself, which is the big thing that we
talked about him missing this past week, and maybe it
took him getting his first interception and such to really
feel that way. But here we are, so I don't
know how much of it is on stately, how much
is his own young players really elevate themselves. Hell, it's
(16:48):
even Brian Berz, who deserveably so. First two weeks got
called out a lot in terms of his run defense
not being a great penetrator. Well, he's the one that
forced the fumble that led to Howden run to get
all back because he did not give up penetration in
that block that he had he come from as a
backside run defender and forced to fumble. Historically, Brazie gets
(17:09):
driven off the line, especially as a backside run defender.
He didn't today. That's a new thing. Maybe he's getting
a little fire under his ass to play a little
bit better, and maybe that is due to Stalley. I
didn't see a ton of differences in terms of coverage.
I just saw some guys make some big plays.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
He one is not a solution on this team.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
I'm still completely okay with Danny Stuftsman getting snaps.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Pete warning that should be traded before the deadline. He's
not a solution going forward. However, Brandonson is a part
of the solution going forward. Stop saying he should be traded.
Shut up. You can't play a good successful zone defense
without a pass rush, and you don't give away one
of the guys who's actually providing pressure while you're waiting
(17:54):
on another guy who you don't know if he's gonna
consistently provide pressure, so you don't make that trade. Shut up.
I mean, goofy need more speed though. On the second level,
just to throw that out there, we run the three full.
We used to have a lot of four to three pieces,
and I think the speed at the linebacker level because
(18:16):
you've got guys like Cam Jordan's you know, Cam is
sixty five to seventy eighty he played outside linebacker. I
mean you get a size advantage there, but you do
miss the speed advantage. You have to start to add
more speed there and then that'll help you deal with
the running quarterbacks more. But we decided to mush rush
(18:38):
in the middle and we started to keep Dart in
the pocket and kind of force them to play quarterback.
But that's where it stood out that we were missing
that elite pass rushing. Yeah, Grandison is like a B
B plus, but Chase Young is if you get with
the pressures like Chase lung led us in pressures like
(18:59):
if you're getting that guy, he's the closest thing to
a dominant pass rusher, and that's exactly what the defense
is missing. M hm.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah, that's assuming that he comes out and plays well.
I mean, it's there's always that concern that even when
he comes back, that calf is still gonna not be
one hundred percent. So either way, if you're looking forward
to the off season, Number one need, whether free agent
or draft pass rush specifically the ability to penetrate on
the edge. That's lacking severely. And I love Cam, but
(19:30):
it's definitely time to find Cam's replacement.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Not. What I did like was we had two punch outs.
Tell me, I'm like, this is a defense that should
be practicing peanut punches or a fall focused tackling drill
or something. It's an art, but it's an art that
should be taught because clearly they succeeded at it. I
think I think it can be taught or coached to
where you can still secure the tackle. But I did
(19:53):
I did think it was quite pleasant to see Themorrio
with a punch out. You had ze in on the
way to make the tackle punch out. I think that's
something that they should lean on going forward, at least
try to teach it.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah. Absolutely, I mean this defense forcing it. You had
one unforced error with Dark just dropping the ball as
it hit his leg. But you had four forced turnovers.
That is not a defense you've seen a lot of.
And even if again yeah, I mean, even if they don't,
I would still like to see that relied on. As in,
(20:24):
if you could get one or two of those a
game starting consistently, not for one or two, changes the
dynamic for the entire team, changes it for rattler, for
more as a play caller. That's something that's been missing.
Even when Da was here. Da was for whatever reason,
he lost that. He was not able to start forcing
that and making that a thing there. And I remember
they had you know, U old Saints fans, remember where
(20:46):
they brought in seminars. They brought in Peanut Tillman to like, hey,
here's how I punched it when I wasn't four hundred
years old. Whatever you got to do, do it. But
what you saw today is what helps this team be
a winning team because they haven't found all the answers yet.
But man, if they could do like they did today,
it comes. It overcomes the issues that we're talking about,
like struggling in the red zone in terms of play
(21:08):
calling and execution. You know, having some of those penalties
still creep up. Seven penalties is not terrible, but it
ain't good. I want to see penalties be five or
less every game. That's what good teams do. You look
around the league, good teams are not getting penalized seven
to ten times, are penalizes five or less. Right, So
there's still things to pick up from this game. I
know it sounds weird that we have a lot of,
(21:29):
you know, kind of negative things to say about a
win because it will definitely take the win. But I
think that's how it should be. When you have a loss,
you find what you did well, you excel on that.
When you have a win, find what you didn't do
well and make those things better so you can win again.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
So I just wanted to point out those a bit
of a a a low football IQ reactionary response from
Ratley to catch the past that was batted down hi IQ.
Example would be Mac Jones batting down on Thursday. If
you watch watch that game.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
I mean he could have tried, but listen here. I
actually have a counter that the broadcast brought up that
I thought was solid counter. I want to bring up
the counter. The counter they said was him taking the
five yard penalty was better than him taking the sack,
which he would have taken if he hadn't rethrown the ball.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
No, no, no, no no, I said, to not catch the
ball down.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Well, again, that's the heat of the moment thing. I
get what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Man, that's it's but it's it's reaction following that play,
they also ended up having to burn a time out
back to back kind of scruffy plays there. And yet listen,
I said that, because I have my will, I will
continue to say, hey, I know his passes are off target.
We continue to see off target passes from rap But
(22:53):
as I've explained, if you were young, if you played football,
and let's say you pick you ended up with the
team with the dude that wasn't a good quarterback, You
ain't no. When the ball was gonna get in your area,
it became something that was important to you because it's like, man,
this ball might end up over here next time, and
I'm over there. So any time the ball is in
(23:15):
your area, I'm supposed to come down with that. You
got to so I get it. Some of his location
be off. It makes it harder catch. Good players make
hard catches.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Good players no offense to some people, but period, we
still definitely miss that big body a good positive. We
didn't see v A used more but not enough.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
The team incorporate that. Yeah, So I'm saying that to
say that if we've all agreed that we both agreed
that rather could be used better, noise still shows some
question questionable play called the team is still making like
other mistakes getting group of field goals missed. Until you
(24:05):
fix the problem the bigger problems that you're still being
exposed as a team. Keep Rattler from being under a microscore,
which means he deserves to be the starter. Shut up
about it. That's it. I get tired of seeing all
these debates on this Ratler is good or not. I
(24:25):
had to see a post that was talking about Oh,
Ratler was on the I mean such a last move
was on the Lockdough podcast and was saying that he
got away. I don't give a damn by none of
that stopped lining. He's a second year quarterback that hasn't
been fully supported in doing what he does best, and
yet it's being made obvious what he doesn't do, and
(24:48):
we haven't stopped asking him to do it. Shut up
about it. That's your quarterback. He's playing well enough, shut up.
I don't care. I just want to say it. I
just felt like I want I want to look at
the camera and say it. So everybody that you can
feel the passion, right, I don't want to if you're
(25:08):
doing that.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
It's the same thing like I think it's silly to
bench Rattler right now. I mean, he's not cast something
I said, same thing we said last week. I think
it's silly to try to even argue to bench Rattler
right now. Why he's not playing terrible and there's nothing
that you know is gonna be better with shut so
why bench you play it out? See what happens. See
(25:36):
what's good now? Raheem said good Win. But Rattler's ball
placement ability to consistently leave receivers drives me crazy, and
groupies gotta go loove man. Rattler is what it is.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
You can over.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
You can compensate with that by having certain routes that
make it easier for him to connect on them. Specifically,
some personnel groupings make it easier. We saw a lot
of Taysom Hill as a runner and as a passer today.
But I think what will really help is having him
being that number two read as a receiver, big tight
end target. That'll help you want to worry about him
(26:09):
not being able to be great with his ball placement.
Give him a bigger target. That's I'm a row Hill
and Juwan Johnson provide as far as Blake Groupie, look, man,
I I'm gonna whoever's a stat nerd out there, the
ones who go look this up, when's the last time
a kicker missed four field goals out of five games
and maintained through the season. I'm gonna go ahead and
(26:29):
say that percentage is close to zero.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I agree, And now I want you to search if
he had a C on his chest just to throw
in that variable.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah. I mean, so if you're out there willing to
do some nerd work, I'll be honest, like, I think
Blake Groupy could be a nice guy. But yeah, I mean,
you're gonna be hard pressed to find a kicker who
is performing worse than Blake Groupy right now from a
statistics standpoint alone, let alone the fact the type of
kicks he's missing, because coming into this game, into this
game with sixty six percent field goal with that miss,
(26:58):
he's a right around sixty percent, which I believe puts
him at bottom of the league for all starters, like
literally number thirty two.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
So yeah, I'm gonna give you another insight. This defense
would look better as a three safety defense with a
safety plan the star position instead of a cornerback.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I'm gonna give you a little insight that just really
annoys me. After today's game, Blake Groupie has a higher
percentage of made field goals from fifty yards or more
than he does from thirty to thirty nine.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
So hayes regressing, that's annoying.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
That's it's unforshnate's that's something, and so watch this.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
It's unfortunate. Yet we're still discussing ball placement.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
While I was just reading the comment of people who
support the channel.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
So listen, let me tell you something. Skin him rank
to dink to d skinny and rink to do. I
love you in the morning and evening and afternoon and
even underneath the moon. So skinnim, rink to dink the
dank skinner and rank to do rank damn.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Raheem also says, no, he's decent in pass coverage, but
I'm tired of seeing him not rush the passer. Let
Granderson rush the damn passer. Agreed, I think so. I
don't even disagree with him being in coverage. I just
think that that number should be like ten percent, and
right now has been like, yeah, that's just too much.
I do agree with that he can do all things.
If anything, it's a compliment to Carl Granderson. The way
(28:45):
that he's developed is one of the best developmental stories
that you can have. I mean, a guy who comes
from almost no expectations to being arguably the best overall
player on your defense. Let the man rush the damn
pass him, even if they are gonna call BS flags
on him. Let him rush the passer. Mister right, you
(29:06):
are correct. Ratler is not turning the ball over, which
is a big reason why I have zero desire to bench.
You know, if he's costing you games.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Then you know what your ball hold on. You said
that now that there's a real quarterback, but had how
many turnovers a day?
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Dart himself?
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah? That what for three? Okay? That's that? That what
you call real dirt dirt quarterbacking.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
I absolutely do.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Oh y'all like how you doubled down on that?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, I ain't gonna hide it. Look, I don't hide
behind what I say. I think the abible to read
the field, hit the guy, he's got it. That does
mean Radler doesn't also have improvements. Because Ratler has an
improvement of not turning the damn ball over, that's an improvement.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I think that's an important quarter playing quarterback. Don't you think.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yeah, I'm gonna use your argument Game one and a
half versus Game eleven.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
There's a reason that kellen Moore said that it's not Ratler.
That's you know, we consider things that happened in the past.
With everybody watching this show with some sense of some
level of common sense and maybe a little bit of
empathy understands that grading Rattler on the product that was
(30:33):
placed that he had to take over last year makes
little sense, even though it is part of the reality. However,
kellen Moore said that he and Rattler are for four,
which is an admittance that he is a part of that.
(30:55):
That's all I've ever done, and all we've both ever done,
is consistently point out that Ratler has a skill set,
ain't leaning.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Into I'll taken advantage of it.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
And yet you're telling me that Dart is a quarterback
and that Rattler isn't that level of quarterback. And I
see the pluses, but playing quarterback position, I think Ratler
is doing a damn good job.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I think Rattler's doing an okay job, but I'm glad
to see him continually getting better.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
How you feel how you felt about Dart? Was he
doing an okay job when he came in? Or was
Dot his dot like? Oh, yeah, he had five turnovers,
but he's a that there's a quarterback right there.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Look, Dart does several things. Well, he's only got a
game and a half, so I can't make a scout remportant.
I could do that for Ratler. I've got, you know,
a dozen games on Ratler now in the NFL. And
I also say this loudly and proudly. Everybody who makes
excuses about his stuff last year, that's bullshit. Scouts don't
give a damn about what you think. Always O Line
was hurt, Oh we didn't have his receivers. That don't
(32:14):
mean shit. That's why we evaluate based on traits. Welcome
to the NFL. Kid, you've been in the NFL. You're
not secretly actually only on your fourth game, every snap
you took last year matters, but you can still get
better from that snap. So yeah, I mean, I'm interested
to see where both these guys end.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Up having that mentality and having never played the sport
and got your head knocked off or hit between a
tackle and just having like this this perspective that's so
far away that you don't know what goes into you.
(32:52):
Got a lot of nerve to really.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Say something like that, what are you trying to say
in the NFL?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Like I get it, Like I I get it, but
I'm like I could understand that coming from like a
player who's a scout who played right and it's saying
we're gonna keep it neutral, but to in one moment
admit that circumstances play a big part in everything, to
then say, oh, suck it.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Up, man, it's context. It's twelve games. I mean, sure,
I didn't play in the NFL. I still played ball.
It's not like I've never been hit before or punched
in my mouth.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
It is what it is.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
But yeah, trade based analysis is able to get away
from the things like box sports scouting and try to
find what they work very well. That's why we're talking
silly things like hip and ankle flexion, and you know
how they're actually doing on their lower to upper body mechanics.
That's why it matters. You can see that regardless of
if you've got Crystal lave at wide receiver or you know, mimes.
(33:50):
Doesn't matter who's a receiver. If you struggle to throw
the ball in a mechanically sound way, that's a critique.
Doesn't matter if the offensive line's bad.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
How many wide open misses did dont have today? Like
some some some bad man. Now we could talk about
some ball location, but again, the ball is ending up
in the general area of the receiver. Yes, we wanted
to be better because quarterbacks that are really good have
(34:25):
far better ball placement. Right, but how much has Ratley
just missed crazily?
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Well, missed crazily as in just like he's not even
in the vicinity.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, he throw some, he throw some some some bad
ball with receivers got to go low, but for the
most part his ball get there. Now, how many throws
did the dort have that ain't get them?
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Well, I don't have that. I don't have any numbers
on that, so I can ride man.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
There's not ralegh rattler, quit quit looking and envy at
the next chick that's over there in the corner, like, oh,
that's a real hot chick. When you got your quarterback
in the house, Stop foaming at the mounta dog.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
What if the quarterback I got five and you looking
at it?
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Man, you're making us look bad out here.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
I ain't making Come on, man, I ain't making nobody
a little bad. I'm just speaking the truth. Come I
wish that rattler had the ball placement to consistently hit guys.
We wouldn't have a lot.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
That's the point I'm making. Like I get it, Like
I get it, but it's like, but the ball get there,
but getting there and you make the catch, balk it down.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Every receiver is not going to throw their quarterback on
the bus, so of course they're going to say it.
But whether the ball is in the vicinity or well
placed matters, and his balls ain't well there a lot
of time.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
How about this when Kelly Moore called something that he
was good at, How good was that ball placed on
route to she was great? Answer that RhD of that?
Speaker 1 (36:02):
It was great?
Speaker 2 (36:05):
All right? Then? So yeah, you just said it, great
ball placeman. Coach starts to coach up to what he
does best. You'll probably see get to heat. The ball
placement gonna be off, but then he's gonna have plays
where he hit like that. If you coach ain't calling
the right places.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Then what okay? But he can't call cell concept every
damn play on the right side.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
I mean, and sell tournamental power, go hod and go
on super selling level two. I don't care about all that.
Where you should you still the man You're still supposed
to do most common sense stuff you minimize.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Okay, by that one, you can keep dumping it on
red law.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
You won't, but better players over the fence, dexter, Stop
you got you got your girl, not dexter the kid
from you. You got your girl at the house you
to marry. Quitn't looking at the girl over the fence. Man.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Now the man's finding out he married the girl. Damn
say common sense when a man continuing and misses.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Over the listen, don't make anybody look so if you
realize you made the wrong decision, don't make everybody's suffer
for your shitty decision making.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
That doesn't even make any sense. Your interjections don't make sense.
They're just emphatic and emotional. Look, Rattler's got to get
better in the middle of the field. If he doesn't,
he can't be a long term NFL quarterback. Simple as that.
He can still have great plays that we call out
(37:32):
and should definitely say, hey, great job here. You need
to see more of that in the future. But you
certainly can't live off double post routes on the right side,
hitting the sideline. You can't live off that. You got
to improve your mechanics, and a lot of great quarterbacks
have the same thing. Lamar Jackson had to improve a
(37:52):
mechanic because he has all He was throwing nothing but
wrist and he improved his mechanics. Josh Allen had to
improve his mechanics. Rattler's got to do the same thing.
He's got to improve his mechanics. Until then he's a
quarterback that you can win with, which is what we
saw today. Hopefully he can become a guy you can
win because of Chat. Got quiet, man, man. They let
(38:22):
the parents fighting again, Like damn, damn Chat. We love you,
just know, no matter what, we love you, Chat, We
love you. Don says that for one and eleven. After
Week thirteen, Bench Rattler then otherwise there's no reason to
don I disagree with that at the premise because again,
when Los ain't on a quarterback man. Now, if Rattler
(38:44):
is being asked, sure, which is what I said here,
if Ratler came these last two weeks into the bye
week and was terrible, you bitch it for Shuck. But
he's not playing terrible, So I don't understand. Like if
the Saints only won this game and lost the rest
of the damn season, if Rattler isn't playing bad, I
wouldn't bench him. Like I understand the argument for benching
(39:06):
Pete Warner to get Danny Stutsman in and benching Eyetem
to get Quince Riley in. Those make sense to me, right,
because you're looking for the guy in the future.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
You know, Shuck was a.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Guy who we knew needed development coming in. So I mean,
unless you just believe, you don't see like if you
believe Rattler's development has just stopped, like he plateaued at
one in eleven, Sure, but I can't argue that. I
can't say that I've seen him plateau. I'd actually argue
the past two games you've seen a better version of Ratler.
Some of that is definitely because of coach More, other
(39:37):
that is probably Ratler wanting to make sure that he's
a long term starter in this league. I'm sure he
probably has a greater desire to improve than anything. So,
like just the premise of the conversation, I disagree with
if the Saints go one and eleven, so they went,
they lose seven straight, I don't think that automatically means
Ratler needs to be benched. I think the context of
how do they get there needs to happen.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Ratler is the smallest of your problems.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, I'm not gonna argue that. I think from what
you've seen so far this year, Rattler is not the
reason the Saints are one and four.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Arguably, one could say the Saints of the reason Ratler
was one in ten. Oh.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
I would absolutely agree with that, which is why I
hate doing the whole I hate that winning loss gets
a tided quarterback. I've always said that winning loss stats
is not a QB stat, It's a team stat. Stop
blaming the man for starting off oh to ten and
comparing him to de Sean Kaiser. Let the man's film
stand on its own, good and bad it's not my
(40:58):
chat frozen. Hold on, let me RePOP. Make sure I'm
not missing anybody's super chats. Appreciate y'all support and watching
the show. By the way, all right, my YouTube chat
done froze up. Guess is the opportunity to wrap because
we did go forty Oh that was a good episode.
(41:19):
We try to keep the week episodes a little bit shorter,
but this is going. You got any fine words? Eliots,
don't forget to shout out the show or the sight.
You are muted. I don't hear you. I mean you
(41:47):
want you want me to You want to call the
phone and say it through the phone. Is that what
you're saying. I can't hear you at all. Headset went out,
all right, Elias is uh, we'll see what you get.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Man.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
I want my moother man to have his final words,
but I can't hear it.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
It doesn't matter what my final words. I could talk
the whole damn time. I was doing my best ship
doing sand this. Yeah, man, it's it's it is what
it is?
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Got you all right? Word second, just Mike went out
and like, I see you talking, but I can't hear
you talking.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
I just wanted to lead you down the past.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
It's all good. We'll see y'all Tuesday. Who that God blessed?
Check out Saints Football Talk dot Com. Monday Morning quarterback
Dropping Monday early Monday or late Monday terrible.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
It's Monday evening quarterback in the wise, Monday evening quarterback.
What's the first two words or two letters in Monday evening?
Him and E? Because it's all about me, So yes,
Monday evening quarterback, Saints Football Talk dot Com.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Thank y'all. Check it out Who that Goy blessed? With love?
He will see then
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Ament wage Fish
Welcome to Mickey Mouse and my host ellis my mess
friend Goofy. How you doing, buddy? It's a w we
no longer have the first pick in the NFL draft.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Boy, I know you ain't about to start this show
with that wack claim trolling you just.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Damn I'm starting. I'm gonna Mickey Mouse Club. That's out
this stream. Welcome in, Enjoy you wind, Cassie Man. Mmmm
the fatigue. I'm good to see you. You good to
see me. How are we doing? I'm ready for this
w to be celebrated. How you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
What's that? A reference to black fatigue? Butop, I tell
you can't get nothing, Bobby Low, I'm doing good man.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I'm glad.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I want I want to talk. I want to talk
more about this. Jackson Dorrit so good. Jackson dort Jackon
Dorton like a real quarterback. He do.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Jackson Darry definitely showed me why we're looking for somebody
in this all season. Damn.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
How about we saw how about we saw a two
man rout concept, something that you know we've kind of
been advocating for in this show. I mean, I know,
y'all like these other podcasts and these other articles, who
was the only two people that were telling you that
we need to get some better stuff from the coaching staff.
Where everybody was leaning on on Radler was.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
There was a certain person who said that that conversation
didn't really make sense because they were doing you know,
left right reprogressions. I'm like, well, maybe that's give it
a shot.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
And yet and yet, you know, we don't get enough love.
And yet it's all good. You know them, you know them.
You know these boys ain't about to get no five
turnover games. Yeah, listen, we are starting with the hate.
I know we just won, but we got you know
them boys ain't about to get five turnovers. You get
(02:14):
to see no quarterback drop the ball off, I mistake
like that for come on, man, come, I still saw
way too much stuff. You know what I'm saying that.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
It is kind of wild though, because every time we've lost,
we talked about the positives that we saw and the loss,
and now that we finally won, we're like, damn, they
went oh for three in the red zone, oh for
two inside the ten, Like they got five turnovers and
still only got twenty six points.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
The defense man I'm looking at I'm looking at some
of this week play calling. Listen, there's certain points in
that game. I'm I'm like, Sean Payton goes for that,
Sean Payton takes that. Meanwhile it flashed across my screen,
then goes for a two point conversion. Listen questions. There
were out of situation like that played before half short
(03:02):
play the camaro and then you come out, and then
the next play the announcements of like, yeah, this is
probably a spot where they're gonna throw a shot at
in the in the rezone, the fade in the red zone.
If they can call it, so can everybody else. What
the hell was the play before that? Stupid? That's what
it was. Or as Kellen Moore would say, goofy, that
was a goofy play called keln That's what that was.
(03:23):
That was a goofy play call. There were more goofy
decisions that were made throughout this game, but with the fun. Finally,
think is when they started doing things that looked better. Wow,
what do you do an explosive play out of a
two man route concept?
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah? Very nice, man.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I was like the biggest positive.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I mean I would say I give it a little
bit more positive. It was nice to see another team
have pre snapties worse than New Orleans.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
The only difference between us is we seem to have
fixed some of that stuff. Yeah, exactly one took it
between us and the Giants is coaching. Give them credit
on that we fixed the mistakes and adjust.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I really want to highlight Staley today, honestly, like if
I had to give some positive to integrate Staley. Now
that doesn't mean that I don't think Howden, Sanker, kool
Aid all stepped up in major ways and deserved shoutouts
for it. But I know you would talk that we
were worried about Howard, you know, coming in, how is
he gonna look? Because Reid went down early. But New
(04:21):
Orleans held New York to thirty percent on third down.
That's a huge win. Now, they had a problem when
it came to the red zone. They let him score a
couple of TVs and such. But this was a disciplined team.
You didn't see a lot of DPI, a lot of
hands shout to pauls and Deebo on the other side
of the of the field over here. Saints had less
penalties than the Giants did this game, and a lot
(04:42):
that was the defense playing very clean and in situations
that were pure pass And one of those penalties was
the most BS penalty of the year, Carl Granderson getting
a sack right from him, like literally literally, how they
teach you to hit a quarterback? Now hit him with
your arm and your shoulder, don't put you wait on
him all that other stuff. Still got a damn penalty
at that point. Drive his ass and the turf Brett
(05:05):
Farva's ass and get the penalty and bruises ribs. If
that's what you're gonna call, I mean, you can't sack
cleaner than he did. And a beautiful win too.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no, don't get
me wrong. Now, looking at the defense, I'll just add
to that there was several times where Jackson Dodd had
about five or six seconds.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah. Absolutely, pressure is still a problem.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
This team would play fewer snaps, This defense would play
fewer snaps if they had an elite pass rusher. Oh
where's he at? He's he's he's over there on the sideline.
And first we had guy the guy to unlock this defense. Now,
as I'm looking at this defense, looking at the way
they plan, I love the way the young guys came
together that secondary. The way they played, you got you
(06:00):
got a young player, and how you got Senka stepping up.
You've got another fourth round picking Riley playing. They jailed
well in the secondary. Alonte missed fewer tackles. They jailed
well in the secondary. You loved seeing that come together.
And yet I'm looking at them like they're missing a
pass rusher.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah it's that look, it's that Keenan Lewis knee all
over again. But now it's just Chase young calf like
we need it. But for whatever reason, for the past
six years, maybe it's the curse of Trey Henderson because
they let him go. They've tried to replace him four
times now, and all four.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Times Blake Group ain't making it as the as the
kicker for the rest of the season.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I'm gonna just yeah, I know we bounced it around
a little bit, but I agree Blake Group be missing
two field goals, including one right up front again. Now,
I will give him a little bit of credit that that,
you know, five foot six, one hundred and thirty pounds
wet Man stopped.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
While he was a captain and made that play that
I was ready to give him credit up until that
point I was I had already wrote what I.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Wrote until he missed another field goal.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Until he missed the other field going, I'm like, no,
you're not making it. You're not making it at the
for the end of the season. Now, I don't care
if you're a captain or not. That's listen, that's nineteen
points straightway three, six, nine, twelve, fifteen. How many of
the miss six eighteen?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Oh gosh, that's that's rough to think about. That's a
lot of points, and on the one in every game.
So out of the five games, he's missed a field
goal in four games.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
That's that's in terrible, including having a two for today.
It's like he's not getting better, he's getting worse.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, I mean, it's just right, Like I really will
suspect the effort, but I can't deny your logic. I mean, like,
what am I going to say? I mean, the dude's missing.
It's wild. He'll hit a fifty three yard or to
start the game and then miss the thirty yarder.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
It's just he's regressing, and and regression usually results in
they sell. At some point that sell regresses and then
it has to be replaced. Let me tell you something.
I'm listen. I I have to make this point. Mm hmm.
(08:20):
Not going for it. You know, I'm after the third
down conversion to Shahid. You know it's like, what fourth
quarter we get that that big third down conversion defense deflated? Right,
why not call a play action shot there instead of
that boring asra Kellen Moore gives me lebron vibes versus
(08:44):
Sean Payton. We always had more of a Jordan and
then you know he's given he's given more Lebron, and
I like, I like to see an aggressive mindset to
where you're not worried about the Granderson interference call because
you already up thirty thirty three the fifteen because you
(09:04):
went ahead and went foot on that foot down, or
you went ahead and took that deep shot and you said,
we're gonna put a dagger in him right now. We're
not gonna We're not gonna punt the ball on fourth inches.
Sean Payton goes for that. In fact, he did it
in our house when they played us.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
That's the little bit that Moore's still miss it. And
I actually used today's game. Look, come on, only use
today's game as an example because Philadelphia, who's arguably the
best team in the NFC, was up seventeen points. Denver
scores twenty one unanswered to come back and win today
with Botnicks at quarterback. That's because Sean Payton's aggressive. He
(09:39):
kept going for it. He kept putting himself in situations,
and he's just gonna tooth and nail it. He's gonna
try to win. And I need a little bit more
of that from more some of these fourth and two's.
Now he had won where he did it when they
were at the forty five yard line, they went for it,
they converted it. Great, But there's some other opportunities. I
think it's there. I get that Taysom Hill just got back.
Maybe not one hundred percent than him. You're, mister Ruiz,
(10:01):
maybe not Harbersting competent. But this team just as a whole,
not saying they got to get cute with it. They
just need to be more aggressive as all amlet's play
call in general.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
This is very accurate, and this is why the win.
I am enjoying the win, and yet I know I
want this team to have sustained success, right, And I
didn't see I saw things A lot of things that
would stop you from sustained success. You were playing a
team that was worse or just as bad as you,
(10:36):
and you did less to lose the game. And I
felt there could have been more opportunities where they tried
to win the game aggressively, and I felt too much tentativeness.
I like I said, I saw Lebron, I won't see Jordan.
I like cobD I I like Mambas in my play callers,
where they go for the juggular as a team, because
(10:57):
that's what Sirianni did with the Eagles. You think that
they went foot in our house three times straight because
it was Kellen Moore obviously doing it now that we're
seeing it, probably not that was Siriani. Yeah, and I
need to see that from him because that's a part
of his personality, part of this team that he needs
to incorporate. I need to see more of Kellen fussing
with the coaches, fussing with the referees on the sideline
(11:18):
about that Grandison call. But I need to see that
implemented into the play calling and the decision making.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I do want to hit one thing about the play
you brought up earlier. We got some comments in the
chat want to make sure we get But you talked
about that double route hitting Shaheen and how important it is,
and I agree, what was that She got it like
a tuna and mac burd. But here's I want to
give some of what I'm looking at analytically why I
(11:46):
think that needs to happen even more for Spencer, because
if you take that one play away, Spencer goes back
to averaging four and a half yards in terms of
like what we've seen. But you gave him that opportunity,
he connected on it, and you never touched it again,
and now Spencer ended up getting the numbers that I
kind of said this past Tuesday that if Spencer just
played a clean game and hit these numbers, you know,
(12:07):
right around two twenty five, two fifty yards, they were
gonna win. And I said, if they hit twenty five points,
they were gonna win, and they did. But more, if
you ever happened to pond or pond me on Ellis's podcast,
here we are why only that one play These concepts
worked for Rattler, right, The play action calls worked for Rattler.
(12:28):
Let him cook, Let him cook. I did like them
using more in the passing game. It worked more Hill
under threw the pass, which Hill does, but it worked.
I like to see that little bit of a wrinkle.
But we gotta get Shaheed and Lave in more of
those situations. Loved rashid able to get that, by the way,
had one hundred yard day. Shout out to him. Well,
(12:50):
Lave had seven catches for sixty yards. I want to
see the same thing from Chris Lave.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
And hearing you say that and play right to the
dialogue that we were having. Hearing you say that and
agree with everything that I said about color Barn how
he's not utilizing Ratler to the best of his abilities.
You had nerve enough to suggest that Jackson Dot and
Keller and Ratler, Jackson Dort's a real quarterback. He's a
(13:21):
Jackson Dort's a real quarterback. Or Jackson Dot was playing
in an offensive system that was obviously trying their best
to lean into his strengths, and he probably looked good
playing into his streets when you're clearly admitting that we
haven't been playing to Ratler's strengths enough, and so he
looks bad reading a field because that's not what he is.
(13:41):
But he looked better with a two man route concept
throwing the ball deep when you made it clear that
he should throw the ball deep, but we're expecting him to, Oh,
he's gotta be a friendshike quarterback and hit the minimal
route down the field because he sees it and he
sees the rotation. Or you can just do what he
does well and let him feel that that see that, duh?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Or Jackson Dark looks good because he actually has decent
ball placement and can do multiple reads on the field
and isn't limited to have Phil Reeds, or he.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Doesn't make it harder, but do you think that it
would have it would be easier of killing Moore played
to his standards, or if guys that are receivers that
clearly have to aid their quarterback and make the tough
catches like we've seen like we saw love today. Lovey
made some tough catches. That's what you're gonna have to
do with. Rather, you gotta support him. We know he
(14:31):
has ball location issues, we get it. He also does
a lot of things very well. Do more of that,
stupid or not stupid? Goofy.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
I agree, do more of that. But my whole statement
was that Jackson Dart has better traits and you can
see it on the field.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Heard dirt, dirt, dirt, that's a quarterback to kill out
with that be like that.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Bezl says, did you notice anything new on the way
Staley called the in terms of the defensive game? Or
d looked better because New York is asked? Or did
it look better because it was better? I would say
without seeing the blitz packages, as in getting and counting
out how many times I actually ran. They put Pete
Warner in the A gap a lot, so they had
Pete Warner do kind of like a false rush. They
(15:22):
had Pete Warner engage the center slash guard, but then
he didn't push up. He was playing spy, but instead
of him just being spy in space, they just put
him close to the line and asked them to spy
Jackson Dart. I don't think it worked very well, but
it helped clean up and allow opportunities for one on
ones for everybody else. Just a lot of those people
didn't win their one on ones. So that's kind of
(15:44):
like a pick your poison thing, Like if you don't
trust him in coverage, fine, but you put him that
close to the line, How often is he going to
run down you know, the elite runners like the Murrays
and even the Darts who can actually get out and move.
Probably not either. I didn't really like or dislike how
they're doing Warner. We'll see what the film looks like.
I think the defense was just better because you have
(16:06):
three guys really ball out and play better. You know,
you had Howden taking advantage of his snaps. You had Sanker,
who is this is the fastest progression of an open
backfield safety that I've seen in a while in terms
of like their first snaps on the field. Sanker is
looking incredibly good. And then kool Aid finally had this
game again limited reps. We'll see what it looks like
(16:28):
on tape, because obviously in broadcast you can't see alaw
of that. He's seemed to play very aggressive today as
he trusted himself, which is the big thing that we
talked about him missing this past week, and maybe it
took him getting his first interception and such to really
feel that way. But here we are, so I don't
know how much of it is on stately, how much
is his own young players really elevate themselves. Hell, it's
(16:48):
even Brian Berz, who deserveably so. First two weeks got
called out a lot in terms of his run defense
not being a great penetrator. Well, he's the one that
forced the fumble that led to Howden run to get
all back because he did not give up penetration in
that block that he had he come from as a
backside run defender and forced to fumble. Historically, Brazie gets
(17:09):
driven off the line, especially as a backside run defender.
He didn't today. That's a new thing. Maybe he's getting
a little fire under his ass to play a little
bit better, and maybe that is due to Stalley. I
didn't see a ton of differences in terms of coverage.
I just saw some guys make some big plays.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
He one is not a solution on this team.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
I'm still completely okay with Danny Stuftsman getting snaps.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Pete warning that should be traded before the deadline. He's
not a solution going forward. However, Brandonson is a part
of the solution going forward. Stop saying he should be traded.
Shut up. You can't play a good successful zone defense
without a pass rush, and you don't give away one
of the guys who's actually providing pressure while you're waiting
(17:54):
on another guy who you don't know if he's gonna
consistently provide pressure, so you don't make that trade. Shut up.
I mean, goofy need more speed though. On the second level,
just to throw that out there, we run the three full.
We used to have a lot of four to three pieces,
and I think the speed at the linebacker level because
(18:16):
you've got guys like Cam Jordan's you know, Cam is
sixty five to seventy eighty he played outside linebacker. I
mean you get a size advantage there, but you do
miss the speed advantage. You have to start to add
more speed there and then that'll help you deal with
the running quarterbacks more. But we decided to mush rush
(18:38):
in the middle and we started to keep Dart in
the pocket and kind of force them to play quarterback.
But that's where it stood out that we were missing
that elite pass rushing. Yeah, Grandison is like a B
B plus, but Chase Young is if you get with
the pressures like Chase lung led us in pressures like
(18:59):
if you're getting that guy, he's the closest thing to
a dominant pass rusher, and that's exactly what the defense
is missing. M hm.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah, that's assuming that he comes out and plays well.
I mean, it's there's always that concern that even when
he comes back, that calf is still gonna not be
one hundred percent. So either way, if you're looking forward
to the off season, Number one need, whether free agent
or draft pass rush specifically the ability to penetrate on
the edge. That's lacking severely. And I love Cam, but
(19:30):
it's definitely time to find Cam's replacement.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Not. What I did like was we had two punch outs.
Tell me, I'm like, this is a defense that should
be practicing peanut punches or a fall focused tackling drill
or something. It's an art, but it's an art that
should be taught because clearly they succeeded at it. I
think I think it can be taught or coached to
where you can still secure the tackle. But I did
(19:53):
I did think it was quite pleasant to see Themorrio
with a punch out. You had ze in on the
way to make the tackle punch out. I think that's
something that they should lean on going forward, at least
try to teach it.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah. Absolutely, I mean this defense forcing it. You had
one unforced error with Dark just dropping the ball as
it hit his leg. But you had four forced turnovers.
That is not a defense you've seen a lot of.
And even if again yeah, I mean, even if they don't,
I would still like to see that relied on. As in,
(20:24):
if you could get one or two of those a
game starting consistently, not for one or two, changes the
dynamic for the entire team, changes it for rattler, for
more as a play caller. That's something that's been missing.
Even when Da was here. Da was for whatever reason,
he lost that. He was not able to start forcing
that and making that a thing there. And I remember
they had you know, U old Saints fans, remember where
(20:46):
they brought in seminars. They brought in Peanut Tillman to like, hey,
here's how I punched it when I wasn't four hundred
years old. Whatever you got to do, do it. But
what you saw today is what helps this team be
a winning team because they haven't found all the answers yet.
But man, if they could do like they did today,
it comes. It overcomes the issues that we're talking about,
like struggling in the red zone in terms of play
(21:08):
calling and execution. You know, having some of those penalties
still creep up. Seven penalties is not terrible, but it
ain't good. I want to see penalties be five or
less every game. That's what good teams do. You look
around the league, good teams are not getting penalized seven
to ten times, are penalizes five or less. Right, So
there's still things to pick up from this game. I
know it sounds weird that we have a lot of,
(21:29):
you know, kind of negative things to say about a
win because it will definitely take the win. But I
think that's how it should be. When you have a loss,
you find what you did well, you excel on that.
When you have a win, find what you didn't do
well and make those things better so you can win again.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
So I just wanted to point out those a bit
of a a a low football IQ reactionary response from
Ratley to catch the past that was batted down hi IQ.
Example would be Mac Jones batting down on Thursday. If
you watch watch that game.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
I mean he could have tried, but listen here. I
actually have a counter that the broadcast brought up that
I thought was solid counter. I want to bring up
the counter. The counter they said was him taking the
five yard penalty was better than him taking the sack,
which he would have taken if he hadn't rethrown the ball.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
No, no, no, no no, I said, to not catch the
ball down.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Well, again, that's the heat of the moment thing. I
get what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Man, that's it's but it's it's reaction following that play,
they also ended up having to burn a time out
back to back kind of scruffy plays there. And yet listen,
I said that, because I have my will, I will
continue to say, hey, I know his passes are off target.
We continue to see off target passes from rap But
(22:53):
as I've explained, if you were young, if you played football,
and let's say you pick you ended up with the
team with the dude that wasn't a good quarterback, You
ain't no. When the ball was gonna get in your area,
it became something that was important to you because it's like, man,
this ball might end up over here next time, and
I'm over there. So any time the ball is in
(23:15):
your area, I'm supposed to come down with that. You
got to so I get it. Some of his location
be off. It makes it harder catch. Good players make
hard catches.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Good players no offense to some people, but period, we
still definitely miss that big body a good positive. We
didn't see v A used more but not enough.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
The team incorporate that. Yeah, So I'm saying that to
say that if we've all agreed that we both agreed
that rather could be used better, noise still shows some
question questionable play called the team is still making like
other mistakes getting group of field goals missed. Until you
(24:05):
fix the problem the bigger problems that you're still being
exposed as a team. Keep Rattler from being under a microscore,
which means he deserves to be the starter. Shut up
about it. That's it. I get tired of seeing all
these debates on this Ratler is good or not. I
(24:25):
had to see a post that was talking about Oh,
Ratler was on the I mean such a last move
was on the Lockdough podcast and was saying that he
got away. I don't give a damn by none of
that stopped lining. He's a second year quarterback that hasn't
been fully supported in doing what he does best, and
yet it's being made obvious what he doesn't do, and
(24:48):
we haven't stopped asking him to do it. Shut up
about it. That's your quarterback. He's playing well enough, shut up.
I don't care. I just want to say it. I
just felt like I want I want to look at
the camera and say it. So everybody that you can
feel the passion, right, I don't want to if you're
(25:08):
doing that.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
It's the same thing like I think it's silly to
bench Rattler right now. I mean, he's not cast something
I said, same thing we said last week. I think
it's silly to try to even argue to bench Rattler
right now. Why he's not playing terrible and there's nothing
that you know is gonna be better with shut so
why bench you play it out? See what happens. See
(25:36):
what's good now? Raheem said good Win. But Rattler's ball
placement ability to consistently leave receivers drives me crazy, and
groupies gotta go loove man. Rattler is what it is.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
You can over.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
You can compensate with that by having certain routes that
make it easier for him to connect on them. Specifically,
some personnel groupings make it easier. We saw a lot
of Taysom Hill as a runner and as a passer today.
But I think what will really help is having him
being that number two read as a receiver, big tight
end target. That'll help you want to worry about him
(26:09):
not being able to be great with his ball placement.
Give him a bigger target. That's I'm a row Hill
and Juwan Johnson provide as far as Blake Groupie, look, man,
I I'm gonna whoever's a stat nerd out there, the
ones who go look this up, when's the last time
a kicker missed four field goals out of five games
and maintained through the season. I'm gonna go ahead and
(26:29):
say that percentage is close to zero.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I agree, And now I want you to search if
he had a C on his chest just to throw
in that variable.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah. I mean, so if you're out there willing to
do some nerd work, I'll be honest, like, I think
Blake Groupy could be a nice guy. But yeah, I mean,
you're gonna be hard pressed to find a kicker who
is performing worse than Blake Groupy right now from a
statistics standpoint alone, let alone the fact the type of
kicks he's missing, because coming into this game, into this
game with sixty six percent field goal with that miss,
(26:58):
he's a right around sixty percent, which I believe puts
him at bottom of the league for all starters, like
literally number thirty two.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
So yeah, I'm gonna give you another insight. This defense
would look better as a three safety defense with a
safety plan the star position instead of a cornerback.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I'm gonna give you a little insight that just really
annoys me. After today's game, Blake Groupie has a higher
percentage of made field goals from fifty yards or more
than he does from thirty to thirty nine.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
So hayes regressing, that's annoying.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
That's it's unforshnate's that's something, and so watch this.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
It's unfortunate. Yet we're still discussing ball placement.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
While I was just reading the comment of people who
support the channel.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
So listen, let me tell you something. Skin him rank
to dink to d skinny and rink to do. I
love you in the morning and evening and afternoon and
even underneath the moon. So skinnim, rink to dink the
dank skinner and rank to do rank damn.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Raheem also says, no, he's decent in pass coverage, but
I'm tired of seeing him not rush the passer. Let
Granderson rush the damn passer. Agreed, I think so. I
don't even disagree with him being in coverage. I just
think that that number should be like ten percent, and
right now has been like, yeah, that's just too much.
I do agree with that he can do all things.
If anything, it's a compliment to Carl Granderson. The way
(28:45):
that he's developed is one of the best developmental stories
that you can have. I mean, a guy who comes
from almost no expectations to being arguably the best overall
player on your defense. Let the man rush the damn
pass him, even if they are gonna call BS flags
on him. Let him rush the passer. Mister right, you
(29:06):
are correct. Ratler is not turning the ball over, which
is a big reason why I have zero desire to bench.
You know, if he's costing you games.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Then you know what your ball hold on. You said
that now that there's a real quarterback, but had how
many turnovers a day?
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Dart himself?
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah? That what for three? Okay? That's that? That what
you call real dirt dirt quarterbacking.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
I absolutely do.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Oh y'all like how you doubled down on that?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, I ain't gonna hide it. Look, I don't hide
behind what I say. I think the abible to read
the field, hit the guy, he's got it. That does
mean Radler doesn't also have improvements. Because Ratler has an
improvement of not turning the damn ball over, that's an improvement.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I think that's an important quarter playing quarterback. Don't you think.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yeah, I'm gonna use your argument Game one and a
half versus Game eleven.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
There's a reason that kellen Moore said that it's not Ratler.
That's you know, we consider things that happened in the past.
With everybody watching this show with some sense of some
level of common sense and maybe a little bit of
empathy understands that grading Rattler on the product that was
(30:33):
placed that he had to take over last year makes
little sense, even though it is part of the reality. However,
kellen Moore said that he and Rattler are for four,
which is an admittance that he is a part of that.
(30:55):
That's all I've ever done, and all we've both ever done,
is consistently point out that Ratler has a skill set,
ain't leaning.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Into I'll taken advantage of it.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
And yet you're telling me that Dart is a quarterback
and that Rattler isn't that level of quarterback. And I
see the pluses, but playing quarterback position, I think Ratler
is doing a damn good job.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I think Rattler's doing an okay job, but I'm glad
to see him continually getting better.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
How you feel how you felt about Dart? Was he
doing an okay job when he came in? Or was
Dot his dot like? Oh, yeah, he had five turnovers,
but he's a that there's a quarterback right there.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Look, Dart does several things. Well, he's only got a
game and a half, so I can't make a scout remportant.
I could do that for Ratler. I've got, you know,
a dozen games on Ratler now in the NFL. And
I also say this loudly and proudly. Everybody who makes
excuses about his stuff last year, that's bullshit. Scouts don't
give a damn about what you think. Always O Line
was hurt, Oh we didn't have his receivers. That don't
(32:14):
mean shit. That's why we evaluate based on traits. Welcome
to the NFL. Kid, you've been in the NFL. You're
not secretly actually only on your fourth game, every snap
you took last year matters, but you can still get
better from that snap. So yeah, I mean, I'm interested
to see where both these guys end.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Up having that mentality and having never played the sport
and got your head knocked off or hit between a
tackle and just having like this this perspective that's so
far away that you don't know what goes into you.
(32:52):
Got a lot of nerve to really.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Say something like that, what are you trying to say
in the NFL?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Like I get it, Like I I get it, but
I'm like I could understand that coming from like a
player who's a scout who played right and it's saying
we're gonna keep it neutral, but to in one moment
admit that circumstances play a big part in everything, to
then say, oh, suck it.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Up, man, it's context. It's twelve games. I mean, sure,
I didn't play in the NFL. I still played ball.
It's not like I've never been hit before or punched
in my mouth.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
It is what it is.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
But yeah, trade based analysis is able to get away
from the things like box sports scouting and try to
find what they work very well. That's why we're talking
silly things like hip and ankle flexion, and you know
how they're actually doing on their lower to upper body mechanics.
That's why it matters. You can see that regardless of
if you've got Crystal lave at wide receiver or you know, mimes.
(33:50):
Doesn't matter who's a receiver. If you struggle to throw
the ball in a mechanically sound way, that's a critique.
Doesn't matter if the offensive line's bad.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
How many wide open misses did dont have today? Like
some some some bad man. Now we could talk about
some ball location, but again, the ball is ending up
in the general area of the receiver. Yes, we wanted
to be better because quarterbacks that are really good have
(34:25):
far better ball placement. Right, but how much has Ratley
just missed crazily?
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Well, missed crazily as in just like he's not even
in the vicinity.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, he throw some, he throw some some some bad
ball with receivers got to go low, but for the
most part his ball get there. Now, how many throws
did the dort have that ain't get them?
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Well, I don't have that. I don't have any numbers
on that, so I can ride man.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
There's not ralegh rattler, quit quit looking and envy at
the next chick that's over there in the corner, like, oh,
that's a real hot chick. When you got your quarterback
in the house, Stop foaming at the mounta dog.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
What if the quarterback I got five and you looking
at it?
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Man, you're making us look bad out here.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
I ain't making Come on, man, I ain't making nobody
a little bad. I'm just speaking the truth. Come I
wish that rattler had the ball placement to consistently hit guys.
We wouldn't have a lot.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
That's the point I'm making. Like I get it, Like
I get it, but it's like, but the ball get there,
but getting there and you make the catch, balk it down.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Every receiver is not going to throw their quarterback on
the bus, so of course they're going to say it.
But whether the ball is in the vicinity or well
placed matters, and his balls ain't well there a lot
of time.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
How about this when Kelly Moore called something that he
was good at, How good was that ball placed on
route to she was great? Answer that RhD of that?
Speaker 1 (36:02):
It was great?
Speaker 2 (36:05):
All right? Then? So yeah, you just said it, great
ball placeman. Coach starts to coach up to what he
does best. You'll probably see get to heat. The ball
placement gonna be off, but then he's gonna have plays
where he hit like that. If you coach ain't calling
the right places.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Then what okay? But he can't call cell concept every
damn play on the right side.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
I mean, and sell tournamental power, go hod and go
on super selling level two. I don't care about all that.
Where you should you still the man You're still supposed
to do most common sense stuff you minimize.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Okay, by that one, you can keep dumping it on
red law.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
You won't, but better players over the fence, dexter, Stop
you got you got your girl, not dexter the kid
from you. You got your girl at the house you
to marry. Quitn't looking at the girl over the fence. Man.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Now the man's finding out he married the girl. Damn
say common sense when a man continuing and misses.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Over the listen, don't make anybody look so if you
realize you made the wrong decision, don't make everybody's suffer
for your shitty decision making.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
That doesn't even make any sense. Your interjections don't make sense.
They're just emphatic and emotional. Look, Rattler's got to get
better in the middle of the field. If he doesn't,
he can't be a long term NFL quarterback. Simple as that.
He can still have great plays that we call out
(37:32):
and should definitely say, hey, great job here. You need
to see more of that in the future. But you
certainly can't live off double post routes on the right side,
hitting the sideline. You can't live off that. You got
to improve your mechanics, and a lot of great quarterbacks
have the same thing. Lamar Jackson had to improve a
(37:52):
mechanic because he has all He was throwing nothing but
wrist and he improved his mechanics. Josh Allen had to
improve his mechanics. Rattler's got to do the same thing.
He's got to improve his mechanics. Until then he's a
quarterback that you can win with, which is what we
saw today. Hopefully he can become a guy you can
win because of Chat. Got quiet, man, man. They let
(38:22):
the parents fighting again, Like damn, damn Chat. We love you,
just know, no matter what, we love you, Chat, We
love you. Don says that for one and eleven. After
Week thirteen, Bench Rattler then otherwise there's no reason to
don I disagree with that at the premise because again,
when Los ain't on a quarterback man. Now, if Rattler
(38:44):
is being asked, sure, which is what I said here,
if Ratler came these last two weeks into the bye
week and was terrible, you bitch it for Shuck. But
he's not playing terrible, So I don't understand. Like if
the Saints only won this game and lost the rest
of the damn season, if Rattler isn't playing bad, I
wouldn't bench him. Like I understand the argument for benching
(39:06):
Pete Warner to get Danny Stutsman in and benching Eyetem
to get Quince Riley in. Those make sense to me, right,
because you're looking for the guy in the future.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
You know, Shuck was a.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Guy who we knew needed development coming in. So I mean,
unless you just believe, you don't see like if you
believe Rattler's development has just stopped, like he plateaued at
one in eleven, Sure, but I can't argue that. I
can't say that I've seen him plateau. I'd actually argue
the past two games you've seen a better version of Ratler.
Some of that is definitely because of coach More, other
(39:37):
that is probably Ratler wanting to make sure that he's
a long term starter in this league. I'm sure he
probably has a greater desire to improve than anything. So,
like just the premise of the conversation, I disagree with
if the Saints go one and eleven, so they went,
they lose seven straight, I don't think that automatically means
Ratler needs to be benched. I think the context of
how do they get there needs to happen.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Ratler is the smallest of your problems.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, I'm not gonna argue that. I think from what
you've seen so far this year, Rattler is not the
reason the Saints are one and four.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Arguably, one could say the Saints of the reason Ratler
was one in ten. Oh.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
I would absolutely agree with that, which is why I
hate doing the whole I hate that winning loss gets
a tided quarterback. I've always said that winning loss stats
is not a QB stat, It's a team stat. Stop
blaming the man for starting off oh to ten and
comparing him to de Sean Kaiser. Let the man's film
stand on its own, good and bad it's not my
(40:58):
chat frozen. Hold on, let me RePOP. Make sure I'm
not missing anybody's super chats. Appreciate y'all support and watching
the show. By the way, all right, my YouTube chat
done froze up. Guess is the opportunity to wrap because
we did go forty Oh that was a good episode.
(41:19):
We try to keep the week episodes a little bit shorter,
but this is going. You got any fine words? Eliots,
don't forget to shout out the show or the sight.
You are muted. I don't hear you. I mean you
(41:47):
want you want me to You want to call the
phone and say it through the phone. Is that what
you're saying. I can't hear you at all. Headset went out,
all right, Elias is uh, we'll see what you get.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Man.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
I want my moother man to have his final words,
but I can't hear it.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
It doesn't matter what my final words. I could talk
the whole damn time. I was doing my best ship
doing sand this. Yeah, man, it's it's it is what
it is?
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Got you all right? Word second, just Mike went out
and like, I see you talking, but I can't hear
you talking.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
I just wanted to lead you down the past.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
It's all good. We'll see y'all Tuesday. Who that God blessed?
Check out Saints Football Talk dot Com. Monday Morning quarterback
Dropping Monday early Monday or late Monday terrible.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
It's Monday evening quarterback in the wise, Monday evening quarterback.
What's the first two words or two letters in Monday evening?
Him and E? Because it's all about me, So yes,
Monday evening quarterback, Saints Football Talk dot Com.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Thank y'all. Check it out Who that Goy blessed? With love?
He will see then
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Ament wage Fish
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