Hard fought loss in Buffalo, Saints fall to 0-4

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:23):
It's heated, it's hot, but New Orleans is four. Let's
talk about it. Who dad to you? God bless me,
love you. We go ahead and get the positives in
because not alled else.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Oh four?

Speaker 1 (00:34):
And what happens when you're O four? You will argue
with everybody about it. And we're gonna do that today.
So let's get it. How you doing, ellis good to
see you.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
What you told me.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
I'll tell the people what I told you.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Yeah, right now.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
No, I'm necessary because look, I get it. Saints lost,
and you don't like that they ran some Q place.
There are definitely some Q plays I don't like. I
got no issue with the Philly Special, with the goal line, none,
no issue with the Philly Special, I don't. I don't
have an issue with it. I got issues with plenty
of things, not the Philly Special. Listen, I'm listening. There's

(01:16):
nothing wrong with trying a trick play, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:21):
I'm okay with the technical play call.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 4 (01:25):
What I'm not okay is ultimately the ball was going
to which player? Where's the who was the ball supposed
to end up in that hands? I'm supposed to end
up in Ratler's hands. Yeah, Okay, if ultimately the ball
is going to end up in the quarterback's hand, why
not just call a pass play.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
Didn't it look better.

Speaker 4 (01:48):
When Rattler was the one throwing the ball and Olive
was catching it, versus Olive throwing the ball and Ratler
catching it. Yes, I understand a coach has to be agressive,
but you don't always have to get cute to be aggressive.
And he gets cute in a lot of ways. There's
these play action fake handoff that the running a Kamara

(02:12):
takes the play action and then he's ultimately the target
behind the line of scrimmage. Just turn around and hand
the ball off to him. He's gonna get hit behind
the line of scrimmage anyway, because your swing passes ain't working.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
It's called getting cute. Just turn around. The ball travels
five yards if it's.

Speaker 4 (02:31):
A pas, just turn around and he's three yards four
yards back.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
Just handle the ball off to them, letting make a run.

Speaker 4 (02:38):
If he's gonna miss the play, he's gonna miss it
running it as a running back, not trying to avoid
everybody in space when everybody knows the ball is going
to it. Just I love what they did this game
with running the ball. Yeah, they had a commitment to
the run. I love to see it. Kendrey looks like

(02:59):
a one B to Kamara's one A instead of the
two that we were getting previously. You should definitely be
using them in a tandem right now. I think he's
earned Hendre has earned that one B role for me.
But when you got to just do these things to
make it where you put him in Kamara in the

(03:19):
backfield together and then you run him and try to
draw the missdirection so that the golds maars like, just
turn around and run the ball.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
I'm getting cute. I understand it works sometimes, it probably
will be necessary in a lot of times. But just
turn around and make them play.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
The Kamara fumble last week or two weeks ago ended
up because it's a bad play call.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
It looks bad on the player.

Speaker 4 (03:43):
You get mad at Olive for not making the play,
and it's a mark where you're like, oh a love
doesn't make the play.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
But why is Olive to one being trusted to make
the pass there? He's not a quarterback for me.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
I look at this game. Here's why I like the
coaching in this game. Number one, he stopped string and Rattler.
He allowed Ratler to escape the pocket and move instead
costantly being look, gotta make you a pocket passer. He
saw a very different Rattler here. That's clearly a coaching decision.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
I like it.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
We also saw them rely on the run game. We
got the twenty touches to Ak, fifteen carries, five receptions.
I like seeing adjustments in that. And look, I get
it now, nobody's going to agree with my take on
me being okay with the cute play call at the
goal line, but also understand why that happens. Because we
talk about putting in Ratler's hands. Here's why he missed
the touchdown to Cooks should have been the Saints taking

(04:32):
the lead wide open.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
We can say whatever you want.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
It's another example of him missing a play when he'll
convert on it with Olave right. So Ratler had a
good game today. We also saw Ratler have some of
his other mistakes. Also had some great jobs on the run,
and I love the finally let him get out of
the Dagune pocket. Six carries almost fifty yards rushing today.
There were good things here, but at the same time, look,
you're going against the best team in the AFC possibly

(04:57):
going to be the Super Bowl team in the AFC
as the bi are always pretty all on. If there's
a game where you need to push every button to
try to win, this was it. And until the final
five minutes they were a score away and could have
had the score for a game we all talked about.
They know way they're losing, ain't no way they're winning,
zero chance they're going to get their ass kicked.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
They didn't. They did a good enough job for me
to leave happy with a smile on my face.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
You can't tell that on a guy to have it played.

Speaker 4 (05:31):
That a design run for Rattler on the goal line,
that Rattler is your best goal line.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
You can't convince me that.

Speaker 4 (05:42):
Okay, that's when I say, kid, who's who's probably a
better goal line carrier there?

Speaker 3 (05:49):
Tamara Ken, Drake.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
Niel's a better carrier. I'm not arguing with you that
I don't disagree with your life. I do not disagree
with your life.

Speaker 4 (06:02):
That's what I mean when I say it's not the
issue with the play call. It's like, hey, we're down
here the goal line. We gotta try something different. But
sometimes you can't outsmaunch yourself. Sometimes the best solution is
to turn around and hand it off to your best
ball carrier and live.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
Or die with them.

Speaker 4 (06:21):
Not trying to catch the off the defense off guard
by doing a slick play call that could get you
to play, but then it also ultimately isn't.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Your best option. You say, show me your best.

Speaker 4 (06:33):
Play in that moment, You mean to tell me that
rattler on a design to run is your best play.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
Here's me again, mid I'm just giving you mind. This
is what I wanted to see for more. I'm not
looking for him to win every game. Do I want
to win games? I need to see the aggressive guy
who's gonna take chances, who's not gonna play it safe,
and it's gonna get the best team in the league
trying to call play that they.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Believe is gonna win the game. It's what he did.
Did they execute being cute and explaining.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
Without being pretty about it.

Speaker 4 (07:11):
You can be you can punch somebody in the mouth
without doing the razzle dazzle with it.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
And they did throw the jail.

Speaker 4 (07:18):
No, He's like, I'm a showman.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
I'm a showman. I'm gonna hit you here.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
No, just throw the damn punch man and they threw
the punch, they ran it Withdre Miller up the miller.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
They did the slamt play to Crystal Lava.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
They did the punches, and they also tried to throw
in a wrinkle against the best team in the AFC.
I got no issue with it. For a game we
said they were gonna lose anyway.

Speaker 4 (07:43):
They lost that game because of bad coach. They could
have won that game. They lost.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
They lost that game because this team is not that good.

Speaker 4 (07:49):
Yet they stayed in it because coaching improved on a
lot of the things that we saw over the three weeks.
The Ultimately, I'm not saying that the coaching staff has
an improved I saw improvement in a lot of ways.
You saw them cut down on the penalties. You saw
them start playing more guys or at least some of
the rookies, getting some other guys in.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
I saw some of the the roster.

Speaker 4 (08:14):
You saw them get better, and yet you still saw
them lose because of some sneak coaching decisions.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
Okay, how you look at it, I can if both
of them can be true.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
Coaching improved, yes, I agree, they.

Speaker 4 (08:28):
Also need some unnecessary things that put the players in
bad predicaments, and it's easier to say, hey, Olive is
supposed to make Olive shouldn't throw that pass. He's got
to throw it away, or maybe Elive shouldn't be the
one making that pass.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
It's real again, Yes.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
I get it. It's brilliant when it works. But listen,
you gotta earn the right to call those plays. First.
You need to establish that you're willing to punch them
in the mouth.

Speaker 4 (08:56):
Then you can throw the razzle dazzle punch in the
mouth until tell you established that people are going to
expect you to try to get cute, because.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
That's what you are proving that you have to do
to make a play. No, you don't. If you have
to get cute, you're saying I can't beat you.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Man the man like the touchdowns in the mouth.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
Buttes on the same topic, let's talk about something good.
Number one Saka deserves a big round of applause, big
shoutouts coming in and stepping up.

Speaker 4 (09:28):
Big Sanka is Senka made multiple multiple plays, just Saka
looking like a guy who can affect the game in
multiple ways where you have to find him on the feet.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
Back to back.

Speaker 4 (09:45):
Plays on the breakup, the interception cleaned up a lot
of kept a lot of runs by taking good angles,
got some rookie moments in there. But Sinker looks like
a player on the defense that opposing coaches will at
some point have to start figuring out where he's at.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
I thought Sinker really showed some different things that only
great a good players do.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
I loved his range in the back for what we say,
I can't wait to see the All twy two so
we'd actually see that back half of the field on
the tape. But three pass deflections in this game leads
the team, in fact led the entire game for both sides.
Because everybody knows some of the names over in the
Bills secondary, like Tredavius White, But three pass deflections interception
coming in with you know, as a rookie, somebody that

(10:27):
a lot of people didn't expect to see a lot
of snaps at this point. And you also saw Quincy
Riley get a lot of snaps this game, which we've
been calling for. But Sanker deserves a huge shout out
for the secondary because the Bills were a team that
doesn't give up a lot of pressure on Josh Allen.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
It just don't in fact, the three SAT game.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Today was the first time they had given up that
many sacks in seventeen games. Right, So you did have
some good plays by Granderson, Jordan, Brez et cetera. But
the secondary stepped up and Sanker was a big part
of that and absolutely deserves to get some loved And
while the defense as a whole definitely had some struggles,

(11:03):
which I think we expected against.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
This team dealt with some bright spots worse shouting out, yeah,
like they.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
Need to play Chris run for a little bit more.
I need to see him. Yeah, he he creates. They
did a lot better job with creating very quick pressure
in this game that it felt like they sent five
or six more often, and they were doing it like
they played a little bit more man behind it and
just said, hey, we'll live or die with the plays

(11:30):
as long as we get to the quarterback.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
I thought that there was improvement there. I thought.

Speaker 4 (11:37):
Maybe sometimes I can still argue about kul Aid not
being physical enough in some ways, and yet a lot
of things got cleaned up as they went. I thought
they did a good job of finding an identity on defense.
We want to play zone, but we'll mix in some
man and just live with getting beat if we get beat,
but we're gonna bring some pressure. Didn't like seeing Carl

(11:58):
Brandison make that dry on that touchdown again, I think.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
And we've been gripping about that to a degree all year.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah, like, listen, send him.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
Stop stop trying to get cute and mix it up
and say, oh I'm gonna fake send him and drop
him in coverage. He's better affecting the play going forward.
Stop just send him as a rusher again. This is
what I talk about when I say getting cute, no
problem with the play call.

Speaker 3 (12:24):
It's like, cool, I get it.

Speaker 4 (12:25):
You're trying to confuse him, you want to drop, no
problem with the play call, but sometimes you just outsmunch yourself.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Well, it's also the how consistently they're doing it.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
We've talked about it like it's it's not even that
you know you want to make that call, it's he's
dropping back in what twenty five percent of his snaps
right now in coverage, which means you're rushing somebody in
place of him. I would be much more comfortable if
that number was closer to ten percent right where he's
actually being used in the pass rush role, you know
where he's the best player on the team, you know,
getting mad for the quarterback, and just as an in

(12:54):
mental line of scrimmage, I think the run defense struggled
a little bit today because they were so willing to
run those misdirections and trying to drop guys like him
back in coverage, and Cook had it completely open lanes
both on the outside and up the middle. And they
had had a probably the best three game stretch we've
seen them having run defense and quite some time coming
into this game. Obviously Buffalo is a very good team

(13:15):
in that regard, but still I feel like Staley has
got to really figure out how he wants to play
that and quit waiting on Chase Young to get back
to grow what you want to run, right, Because if
you believe that we can make up for Grantison dropping
in coverage by having Young rush, that's great and all,
but you don't have that yet.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Let's get that defense be a little bit more realistic.
So offensive side, how do you feel about the wide
receiver group?

Speaker 4 (13:44):
Well, I mean, as you pointed out, I look, I've
said it, and this is and and this is the
only point where I'm gonna say this. The offense as
it is the way that it's built and what it's
requiring from everybody. Look better with Shuck, who has better

(14:04):
ball players. You probably see guys run after the catch
a little bit more. You probably see them have a
little bit more space because the ball wouldn't be behind
them a little bit couple of inches.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
Like I said, Ratler is typically accurate.

Speaker 4 (14:17):
His ball location usually just makes it a little bit
harder of a catch, and you would love your.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
Receivers to make the catches to see their quarterback, but
they're not always going to.

Speaker 4 (14:30):
However, if you saw how much pressure the Saints are
giving up and yet coming into the game having the
worst time to sack percentage in the league coming into
the game and had only given up six sacks, that's
because Ratler is doing a great job of avoiding the
rush majority of the time, but he's still feeling a

(14:51):
little bit too much pressure. You don't want to put
Shuck behind that right now.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
You just don't.

Speaker 4 (14:56):
So in the long term, Shuck is probably more the answer,
But in the short term, Rattler is absolutely the right
person to be leading this team. You just, hey, you
played a good game. Things kind of opened up. I
love seeing Ratler run more, use his feet more. Would
have loved to see them continue to work on the

(15:17):
scramble jail because I think that's where the big plays
are gonna be made. When Ratler gets out of the pocket.
There's some leaky yardists there that's there if you can
get better on the scramble drill. Love seeing him be
a part of the run game or love the run action,
love the read option. I enjoyed seeing it all just hey,

(15:38):
let's not make him the goal line runner in that moment.
It's just it's it's little bitting moments here and there.
I saw overall improvement. I saw big picture improvement from
the team. It's the detail things that I would love
to see start to get cleaned up. And that comes
from the coaching doing a little bit better of a job.

(16:00):
Just like we said on defense, why are you dropping
Granted's in there, it's the little moments just spring just
bringing drop somebody else who's better in coverage.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
In that play, which in that same vein to give
love off to cleaning things up offensive line especially. I
know they got the offensive line back. Ruiz obviously got injured,
but only four penalties this game, but really importantly not
seeing the pre snap errors from the offensive line. That's
huge And you want to know why Alvin Kamara and
Brandon Miller or Brandon Miller Kendre Miller has such a

(16:31):
great game because they weren't having a run from first
and fifteen, right, They actually had opportunities with open holes,
actually had opportunities with good systems of like, oh it's
second and four, we can you know, call any running
play here and have confidence. You know, having a discipline
offensive line goes a very very long way.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
It will take time. They looked better.

Speaker 4 (16:58):
Getting off the ball and a lie the runners that
have space to run. That was a big component of
getting your entire unit back healthy. Specifically, I think for
what Keller.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
Moore wants to do with that duo blocking, you gotta
have good guard play.

Speaker 4 (17:13):
Yeah, you lose ruise today, but now you suddenly get
a chance to get a look at if you can
get more movement in the ground game where you may
give up some plays anyway with the young rookie there
until Redunds gets back. But as you were going as
you wanted to do, you wanted to move for duns
there once Pinning got back, and now the door may

(17:37):
have opened for that to happen natural circumstances. With Ed's
going down. We'll figure out later how severe his injuries.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, I mean, we definitely don't root for injury. But
if this ends up producing the offensive.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Line needed for the quarterback and the running backs to
be productive, I'm down for that.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
And against Jata Miller and Ak, who both had great games.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
I mean, Ak have it almost five yards to carry
Miller six yards of carry, love Miller's eighteen yard TD
run him and he broke what four tackles in that.
I mean, that's that's the Miller we saw coming out
of college that you just haven't gotten to see in
the DA air because he's always hurt, and now that
he's fully healthy, you're actually getting to see Kendre Miller
be the style of back, the one B that you
caught him earlier he's always supposed to be who can actually.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Do well in those duo systems.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
Because they talked about this in the broadcast, he's very
much more of a north south runner. You give him
a gap, he's going full steam at it immediately. Whether
it's you know, we need to be patient or not.
Ak is much more patient, wants to run zone. Miller's
ready bulling China shop and he's gonna run through guys.
He's gonna have He does have some elusitivity I love
to say about Ak, but Miller's that guy who can

(18:41):
be that hard nosed runner and did a great job
with it today, and we see more of that.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
I feel like.

Speaker 4 (18:48):
Warno makes I feel like Warrener gives up more plays
than he makes. I feel like that's.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
Danis stuffsman he makes then in exception, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (18:56):
I've gotten to the point I've seen enough of Warner
to want to see more.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
Danis doesn't at this point.

Speaker 4 (19:04):
Just a random a random thing that I notice that
I got phillies.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
I would say, man having the interception just in your bucket,
and not even like it was a heater. It wasn't
like Spencer Ratler through this, you know, heat seek and
missile at him. It was Josh Allen kind of had
a floater based on pressure because man, you mentioned earlier,
who deserved a little bit of love. Rump interrupted that
throat could have even argued that it was a fumble
but forward pass floater drops it, and I think Werner

(19:35):
is what he is, which is kind of similar to
how we could describe Isaac at corner like, I don't
think he's the worst linebacker in the world. But if
you feel like there might be somebody that you need
to check out, well, guess what, ladies and gentlemen, you're
hing four. And even though I love the competitive games,
does anybody really believe.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
We're coming back from oh to four at this point.
I'm not saying give up.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
I'm definitely not saying tank, but I don't have an
issue with Stutsman getting snaps in the same way that
Riley got snaps today.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Let's start working him in slowly, see what he looks like.

Speaker 4 (20:04):
You got be able to make big time plays, And
for me, that was a moment where he could have
made a big time play on a defense that needs
big time play man.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
Absolutely, I mean talking about guys who did step in.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Sanker made that big, big time play to keep New
Orleans in it when the offense wasn't clicking on every
drive because again you're going against the Buffalo Bills. Sanker
made those type of plays. We saw Cameron Jordan make
that type of play. Brian Berse made that type of play.
Gotta see that from your linebacker crew too.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
So you need ten mores. This is what you need.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah, you do.

Speaker 3 (20:37):
If you get ten more sinkers, you you'd be good. Now.

Speaker 4 (20:41):
I'm not gonna take anything away from Alive with the interception.
I did see some bad drops a lot. Again, I
get it, it's a ball location thing. Passes are not
exactly where they need to be to make it easier.
But gotta make catches. Those are those are opportunities to

(21:02):
make big time plays, and you outure playing with somebody
who might need a you know, change of location or
change of view.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
I'm just saying I like Olive. I like what he
has to offer.

Speaker 4 (21:12):
I think he would be much better with a quarterback
that has ball location down for I think he looked.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
Heck of a lot better.

Speaker 4 (21:20):
But I'm also still seeing the drops and everything that
you don't want to see from a guy that you
potentially might.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
Have to pay thirty six million a year. That's not
that's you know what I'm saying, but that's the kind
of money that they call the phone the market.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
Right now, I know what you're saying, but I mean,
if somebody's want to pay a lave, that more power
to a lave and his agent to get that contract,
but it ain't coming out of New Orleans.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
Yeah, I just I need to see more shout out
the krog with some beautiful punts.

Speaker 4 (21:48):
I thought, oh yeah, that thea kroga performed well. Meanwhile
grouping with another significant error that.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
He also a fifty four yarder that deserves some love.

Speaker 4 (22:00):
Give him the love for that, but you you still
proving that you're kind a part of the problem in
some ways.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
I just appreciate being able to rely on that man
for a fifty four yard of that. I'll be honest,
I wouldn't put him out there to kick that.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
I would have.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
Been missing been the easy one.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
Yeah, but still, man, the reliability of him has been low.
One comment on the on the Warner thing, I just
I love this comment. Tony Davis says, a greel Warner
dude is so extra regular and if that is not
the best way to describe people, Warner like he is
extra regular, which is fine, Like he's not costing you games,
but at the same time, you got something better, run
something better.

Speaker 3 (22:39):
He's flavorless gelatine.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, he's not. Well, he's not Adam Bighill flavorless gelatine.
Maybe like great value versus name brand jello.

Speaker 4 (22:47):
You know is if you were a kid, Werner is
what happens when your mother choose all the flavor out
the gum and then gives.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
It to you after Damn, that's harsh, that's damn.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
I mean it serves its purpose. It shoots really well flavor.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Though Giovanni says Jackson Dark got his first win without
his top wide receiver, Rattler's yet to win a game.
Any thoughts, here's my honest thoughts on that quarterbacks are
not responsible for wins. I know that there might be
the most important position in the game. I don't do
the whole QB win loss thing. And I say that
as someone who agrees with Ellis. Here probably time to

(23:24):
start thinking about shut down the road. I think that
you have seen enough from Ratler at this point. Y'all
can make all the excuses if you're a Rattler fan
out there, like oh, he didn't have this, didn't have that. Look, man,
you got ten full starts. Any scout on any team
will tell you we can make a scout and report
on that.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
Cool.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
I'm still not going to give him all the losses, right,
You can take that tape though, and see what you see,
and I think you see what you see right. There's
a reason that he had that great pass to Rashid
and then he misses Brandon Cook's wide open for the
game leading score.

Speaker 3 (23:52):
Right.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
Ratler is who he is, and I do think that
he can still get better.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
But I think when you have it, you have it.

Speaker 4 (24:02):
I think Ratler has had opportunities to show that he's
a quarterback that you win because of, and we've only
gotten the reality, which is he can. He's a quarterback
you can win with when everything is going right. When
Olive makes that catch, you probably you get that win.
When Olive makes that pass, you probably get that win.

(24:27):
It really depends on everybody else around him playing well.
If you're getting those blitz pick ups on the offensive line,
you probably get that win.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (24:36):
You make that pick with Werner, you probably get that win.
But you're not gonna get that win on the shoulders
of Ratler.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
That's not who is and you can still win with him.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
But again, one big thing for me is yards per
attend today four point seven and everybody out there who
wants to do their own research, find me a quarterback
who leads a team that has a winning record, that
had a YPA blows six or seven and he's down
in the FoST You know, he's the second worst in
the NFL. Is of a day, right, He's just things
that he does you can definitely have success. I love

(25:09):
his run plays. I'm so glad they finally let that
man escape the pocket and not just sit back there
trying to make throws. But the same time, he is
what he is at this point.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
Yeah, he's a.

Speaker 4 (25:20):
Good, hold it together quarterback. That's probably ultimately number two,
unless you can find In other words, Ratler probably works.
You just finding that Shanahan system right now. If he's
supported heavily by a run game and only asks to
manage the game and make a big time throw here
they're more max protection shots, he probably fits that scheme.

(25:43):
But it's obvious that Moore wants to be sixty forty
somewhere in that range. He wants to have a quick game,
he wants to run a lot of shotgun. Notice how
Shuck just seemed to be able to see over the
entire offensive line a little better make a little throws
seat throws that maybe Ratley isn't seen because he's taller.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
This offense is actually designed I think for Shuck.

Speaker 4 (26:04):
With Shuck in mind, it's just that the team itself
is not good enough to support Shuck in this moment
without him having to develop some bad habits. You might
as well let Ratlers stay out there until the team
around him gets better. That starts with the offensive line improvement.
Getting them all back was good. You lose Louise, but

(26:26):
I mean it's arguable that Louise was a road cone
anyway for the most part most times. So you maybe
get a chance at a new look offensive line that
might jail, but you have to get them together.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
In more games after this.

Speaker 4 (26:44):
You can't continue to see people fall if they can
learn to jail a little bit. I'm thinking two to
three weeks. If you're still not getting wins with Rally,
you probably move the Shuck, but not before you get
to these division games.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Agreed.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
And I will say this about Rally because I do
think that you see an He's not Pete Warner, right,
He's not the gun that's had the flavor chewed out
of him because he can definitely flat.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
But what I will say about Ratler, if I had
to give y'all.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
A current NFL player comp Jacoby Brissette, a guy who
can be in the league ten years, gets his chances
to start, but it's basically just that really good backup.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
He's that borderline. Can he be a backup? Can to
be a starter? Jacoby Brissette still in the league.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
By the way, he's with Arizona this year started, you
know what, three seasons after you got traded.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
More power to him. But I think that's kind of
where Rattler's at.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
But when I watched the ten games him start him,
I'll see a guy who deserves to be in the NFL,
but he's not gonna be the reason your team wins.
He's just not.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
Just what it is.

Speaker 4 (27:41):
You gotta find out if Shuck is that guy, because
shut you don't know yet.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
It's possible he might be. It's likely he's not.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, I agree, Like I'm definitely not saying Shuck Cob
the guy either, but it's possible that he is.

Speaker 4 (27:54):
Like I said, you can one of the clear traits
that Shuck has over Rattler is his ball location.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
You you saw it during the preseason.

Speaker 4 (28:02):
You saw through some of the games it just seemed
like guys had more room to run after the catch
when he was throwing the ball.

Speaker 3 (28:09):
He just has it.

Speaker 4 (28:10):
Both quarterbacks are accurate. Once ball location is a little
bit better. You also, I think saw shuck be a
little bit more aggressive down the field naturally, like he's
willing to take those shots a little bit more. It
may still fall incomplete, but again, I think they talked
about it during the broadcast.

Speaker 3 (28:29):
You didn't see enough that said, hey, respect my deep ball.

Speaker 4 (28:34):
You have to throw the ball, like even if you
angle it out of bounds, just throw the ball.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
So they know that they have to cover all of
the field.

Speaker 4 (28:44):
At some point they just stopped respecting that they have
to play the deep ball, so they can kind of
just squat on everything and you're not gonna get production
out of Elive and Shaheed with run after the catch
when everything is they're sitting on everything scroud and that
their body types on good for making those types of
plays after the catch if you can get them in

(29:04):
some space with some accurate balls. They're built to run
away from people. But with the way you're asking them
to play in the short area of the field, generally
they're probably gonna get popped. So you would need them
to be the type of receivers that can take a
hit like a Deebo Samuels and they keep going. They
would be able to potentially make plays that way, but
those guys are not that body type. So I think

(29:26):
ultimately Shuck is the best for it, but they have
to get that offensive line plan better first before I'm willing.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
To put him out there.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yeah, I would still have Ratler playing at least three
to four more games, just me personally, I mean, because
even if he threw Shuck in now, you're not throw
them into a great situation. And he was a guy
that came in who needed to be developed anyway. It's
not even about like giving him opportunities. The guy had
red shirt NFL first year scouting report before he came

(29:54):
to New Orleans. So like, I don't feel like there
should be any rush unless you just feel like Rattler's
looking terrible, which I don't think Radler looks terrible.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
He just doesn't look good. There's a difference, right, He's
not costing you games.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
I think I think. I don't think he looks terrible.
I think he looks good. I think he looks fine.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yeah, I think he flashes great and then he also
has some negative plays. He's completely okay to start your
quarterback system with right now, it's what you got right.
We know this team's gotta be rebuilt. I'm actually grateful
that they're competitive every game right now. I know that
we've lost ohe four and it sounds like I'm just
trying to silver line and everything, but Saints aren't just
getting Absolutely this was a much better game in Seattle

(30:31):
against Buffalo, who is a better team.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
I enjoyed this game.

Speaker 4 (30:36):
You saw him correct a lot of mistakes like you
one Southern correct a lot of mistakes. They took the
data that they've been getting over the last two weeks,
three weeks.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
They took the data and.

Speaker 4 (30:50):
They came out and the majority of the things that
they had issues with they improved on significantly, and that's
what ultimately gave them a chance.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
Now there's just a little bit more tweaking.

Speaker 4 (31:03):
Like I said, when you look at like listen, you
look at that offensive line, right, and that offensive line,
if you saw them ball them balls, be ready to
fight for everybody. If you if you see any independities
that happen off of the line, they're ready to fight
anybody and everybody for the for the ball carrier. I
think I saw Camara get man handled them in such
a way that when offensive line came up, the balls

(31:25):
ready to fight. So part of your identity has to
be putting them in an aggressive position more often.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
Moving forward is aggressive going back with his passive.

Speaker 4 (31:35):
So you should be having them attacking and calling more
run plays more often because that's what they're good at.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
That's what they like to do. Even if the other
team makes a play.

Speaker 4 (31:47):
Don't get away from it, go back to it because
that puts them in a position to succeed more often
than not.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
Those guys are not good going backwards right now.

Speaker 4 (31:58):
That they're not great unit going backwards, so you need
to ask them to go backwards less. That's why we
need to see more Kamara, but we also need to
see more Kendred. We need to see one A, one B,
not one two for your high dosage of Kamara and
then you know six or seven touches for Kendrad. I

(32:19):
need to see more of what I saw today. They
was a ratio of them again. I need to see
it look a lot less cute. If you're gonna put
them in the backfield, do like what you did on
the short yardish player hand the ball off to Kendred
from the full back position.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
That's being direct. That's that's to me, that's being that's
being straightforward.

Speaker 4 (32:39):
When you got a motion Kamara out, then have him
take the play action just to pitch it to him.
Off the play action, you're doing too much from that
same position if you want to handle the ball off,
just handling the ball off. Those are the little, just
small things about creating identity that I need to see
them do a better job. But they were close as
a team today. I would not be supper to see

(33:00):
them get a win next week.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Same Travis throws one. I like, why haven't the Saints
traded Lave? And I'll throw two things out for you.
Number one, why haven't they traded a Lave for me?
Number one? Why would another team want to trade for
a Lave for what New Orleans would likely want, which
is probably a round two to round three pick. And
number two, if you trade him, who fills in the spot,

(33:25):
because let's talk about rattler shuck whoever, there's not a
lot of weapons as it is, And both of these
are guys that they've said they want to develop you're
probably not gonna get what you believe he's worth. And
then on the flip side of that, you're making it
even harder for the quarterbacks as you want to develop.
We're talking about, oh, last year, he didn't have the guys.
Now you're gonna get rid of the guy that even
though we have some inconsistencies with a Lave looking very

(33:46):
similar to Juwan Johnson lately, but still a much better
option than having shahe'd be your only guy and then
putting Brandon Brandon Cooks at the flanker right, So you
would be diminishing this team because whether a Lave gets
one hundred yard game, he has to be respected because
teams respect his talent level. So I don't think you're
gonna get the conversation for him because remember contract year,

(34:09):
somebody's gonna have to pay him.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
You're already four games in.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
And then the other aspect of that, you're gonna make
Rattler his life harder and potentially long term shock.

Speaker 4 (34:17):
So they don't think you make a trade or move
to trade Alive until after you've seen him with shut that.
But absolutely fanago a trade for Elive, and I think
they can do it. We probably thought that they couldn't
get anything for Latimore.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
I mean, clearly the Latimore trade worked out for us.

Speaker 4 (34:40):
They can get something for a live if they want,
but I wouldn't be in a rush to do it now.
The other flip side is it does have value because
he still has his fiftiet options. So if between trades
from now, they still have him for this year to
end the year, and then they still have the fifty options,
so it's almost like they have a rental.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
They can't get a set around pick four.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
But I think that the injury history is just something
that too many there's too many people who look at
the concussions ago I don't even want him.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
Yeah, I mean listen, Brandon Cooks had about the same
number of concussions around this time in his career a
little bit after, and teams are still trading first round
and second round picks on him. I don't think it's
that big of an issue. Somebody will want Olive because
he's a talent. However, as I said earlier, there were
some moments for some big time plays that I needed

(35:30):
to see him.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
Make and I didn't.

Speaker 4 (35:32):
And so for me that if you're gonna if you're
gonna stand out as that guy because if I keep you,
I'm gonna.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
Have to pay you.

Speaker 4 (35:39):
Yeah right, So if I if you're not showing me
that you know I deserve to be paying you, there's
no reason for me to keep you. And right now,
as it stands, with Ratler as his quarterback, he's not
as effective.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
However, I would be inclined to wait.

Speaker 4 (35:55):
To see what he looks like with Chuck did some
redeeming things, but I I he's he's gotta step up
and be the elite receiver for the above or I
would say the average quarterback, because I think Ratler's ranked
fifty as a quarterback in the league, so he's right
at right at average. You gotta be the big doll receiver.

(36:17):
You gotta step up. You gotta make those catches. You
gotta make those players. You gotta not throw that ball,
even though I feel like that's a bad play call.
You gotta you gotta not throw.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
That ball, Rashid.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
You gotta not run out of bounds on that play.
You gotta you gotta slide in and keep the clock run.
I need those I need the players to make smaller
decisions and do the little small things that help them
that ultimately help their quarterback in the end, and it
starts with catching the ball.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah, I agree with you, man, Look any final thoughts.
We wrap this when up, come back Tuesday with some notes.

Speaker 4 (36:51):
Nah Man, I I said, I think Sanker is a
special player. I think I think as a absolute special player.
I thought that you found something with the balance between
Kendre and Kamara. I think you need to feature him more.
I think you found something with blitzing a little bit
more playing, a little bit more man coverage on the

(37:12):
back end.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
I think you found something there.

Speaker 4 (37:16):
You still need to work on, you know, continuing continuing
to add Ratle as a factor in the running game.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
Because rat had some moves out there to day. Like
I said, I got phone. He got phone with quickness.

Speaker 4 (37:26):
So you continue adding him into that and making him
a part of that so that you can continue to
add extra runs to your call sheet. And I think
that will ultimately help your team start to get a rhythm.
But you do need to be running the ball more. Otherwise,
I like to step forward. I love that they clean
things up. Let's see if they can continue with get

(37:47):
home and get a win next week. Put it all
together next month I saw improved, and that's what we
wanted to see.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
As far as say that if they play like it
against Buffalo against New York, and I'm not trying to
just sell New York, sure, but if they play that way,
they should win that game.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
It's at home.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
You just play a much better team, maintain that same balance,
have similar defensive production against a weaker team. That should
be a win, which would be great for Ratler to
finally get, you know, the monkey off his back. Yeah,
because I'm tired of hearing people talk about it like
it's not his damn fault.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
It's win losses are not a quarterback stat.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
I hate it.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
I've always hated it.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
I will, I will argue against it till I'm dead
in my grave. I'm tired of hearing about it. Let's
let's judge him based on this film instead of his
damn win loss record.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
I hope they win, and I believe they can.

Speaker 3 (38:35):
Still a quarterback stat.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
You just trying to trigger me. I know what you'd
be doing. I know what you'd be doing.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
Still, quarterback. Ultimately, a quarterback is judged by his wins
and losses, and still a.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
Quarterbackstad Well, that's what analysts do, and I ain't gonna vote.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
Because that's the point.

Speaker 4 (38:50):
That's why we make the point of the quarterbacks that
you win because of they typically have are your win totals.
The quarterbacks that you win with they usually don't win
very many games. So absolutely, you.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
Know it's a chicken or egg type argument, and I'm
just tired of hearing the same argument. I want the
man to either have his success or have his failures.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
So I believe that Ratler will have success.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
I'll tell you it.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
Look briefly for e Quate, I'll tell the main reason
I hate it is because I had to listen to
everybody talking about how terrible Drew was when he was
going seven to nine. I'm like, bro, if Drew wasn't here,
they're owing sixteen. Shut your mouth, like that's exactly. That's
why I got so tired of that conversation because people
are like, oh, Drew sucks, he's going seven to nine.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
If he was that good, they'd be going to super
Bowl every year. Like you didn't understand the team he had,
Like I mean.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
That Dad roster was trash and he was.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
Still going seven to nine.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
So that's why, like when I see that combo like,
I ain't blaming Ratler in the same way I wasn't
blaming Breeze. I'm going to give the man his flowers
when he earns it, and I'm gonna hate on him
when he has problems. I'm telling to pull the trigger.
So that's that's where my losing of that phrase comes from.
The Drew Brees era.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
Yeah, well, I like what I saw. I would love
to see.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
Better coachs who that y'all appreciate. Y'all watching me and Elis.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
Y'all check out, says football talk dot Com to get
all your news throughout.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
The week, all your stats, all your goodies, and we'll
see you on the next one. Yeah, I know you
forgot the plug. I didn't forget it though we got it.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
I'll be forgetting.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
We'll see y'all later