Red Bull Power Struggle Exposed (Horner Out, Mekies In, & What’s Next for Tsunoda?) | EP 70

Christian Horner is OUT at Red Bull. After 20 years of drama, dominance, and Dietrich phone calls, the team finally pulled the plug. So… what the hell happened?

In this episode, we break down all the chaos: the timing, the power struggle behind the scenes, and why Thai ownership finally said enough. We also talk about Laurent Mekies becoming Red Bull’s new team boss, Alan Permane sliding into Racing Bulls, and what this all means for Max Verstappen, Yuki Tsunoda, and the entire Red Bull empire.

Is Tsunoda out with Honda? Is this the start of a full-on Red Bull unraveling? Buckle up. We’ve got thoughts.

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Why Are You Yelling? is a podcast for people who get a little too loud about the things that matter and the things that don’t. Join Anna and Jessica every episode as they talk pop culture, current events, and more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Let's talk about Hiller.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
That'll make sense later.

Speaker 1 (00:04):
I'm immaculately conceived.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
I don't know what to do.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
I swear I'm not stupid.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Take it or lead that. Sometimes you just want to
leave it.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
So I got to bar my mom's underwear.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm bar wing or underwear. You just YEAHSA likes to
jar jar baits. I'm not gonna edit it out. No, No,
I don't know like I I got. It's pretty great suck.
Why are you saying with a question mark clap? Bitch?
All right? Three two one?

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Actually, and we're alive.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
I'm Anna and I'm Jessica, and this is why are
you yelling? Welcome back to another episode. We are not
doing a race review again because we're still in the
middle of our two week break, but we are going.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
To talk about what the freak is going on with
Red Bull.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
There was breaking news a couple of days right after
the British GP and Red Bull basically released a statement
that said, effective immediately, Christian Horner was no longer their
team principal and CEO. He was relinquishing all duties and
roles related to that and effectively immediately immediately. Uh, and
that was pretty much it. They announced that Laurent Mechis,

(01:16):
who was the team principle at Racing Bulls, which is
like considered the junior slash sister team to Red Bull,
he was promoted to CEO and team.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Principle of Red Bull.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Alan Permaine has been appointed to the as the new
team principle for Racing Bulls. So we had some shuffling
around and basically.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
We're gonna talk about it.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yeah, we're gonna dive into Christian Horner's kind of legacy
at Red Bull.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
We're going to talk about why, some reasons.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Why this may have come about, uh, effective immediately, effective immediately,
We're gonna give you a pretty good breakdown of all
that and with the if there were rumors or if
there's speculation, all that stuff we're going to talk about,
and we'll talk about the new team principle and CEO
at Red Bull or Mechi's will give you kind of
breakdown of him and his kind of rise to where

(02:01):
he is now. And also Alan Permaine will talk about
his background. And there's also some news about you.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Notice it's a lot of Red Bull news, so a
lot to cover. So it might be a bit odd
because a lot of times. We're just steadily yap in
a way. We are going to we have a very
nice script. We've got a structured breakdown, yes, for organizational purposes,
because there's so much information it's crazy. So we can

(02:29):
just hop into the Christian Horner being let go news.
So Red Bull put out an official statement on their Instagram.
A Christian Horner also put out an official statement. So
I will read the Red Bull statement. So this is
from the Red Bull Racing Instagram. After twenty years with
the team, Christian Horner departs Oracle Red Bull Racing as

(02:52):
team principal and CEO. We thank him for his tireless
and exceptional work. He has been instrumental in building this
team into one of the most successful in Formula One.
Eight drivers World championships, six Constructors Championships, one hundred and
twenty four wins, one hundred and seven pole positions, two
hundred and eighty seven podium finishes. Thank you for everything, Christian.

(03:15):
You will forever remain an important part of our team's history.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
That was nice.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
That was very professional, Yeah, and factual.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
So for Christian Horner's statement, this is coming from his
Instagram account.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
He posted it about a week ago.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
As of this recording, so he says, after an incredible
journey of twenty years together, it is with a heavy
heart that today I say goodbye to the team. I've
absolutely loved every one of you. The amazing people of
the Factory have been the heart and soul of everything
that we have achieved, win and lose. Every step of
the way, we have stood by each other as one,
and I will never forget that. It's been a privilege
being part of and leading this epic team, and I

(03:53):
am so proud of our collective accomplishments and you all.
Thanks to the amazing partners and fans who have enabled
us to go racing has helped grow the team from
its humble beginnings to an F one powerhouse that laid
claim to six Constructors' Championships and eight Drivers' Championships. Equally,
thank you to our rivals, with whom there would be
no racing at all. You've pushed us, challenged us, and
enabled us to achieve accolades we never dreamed possible. The

(04:15):
competition has made every victory sweeter and every setback and
opportunity to develop and grow. Formula One is a sport
built on relentless ambition, passion, and respect. The rivalries have
been fierce, but the mutual drive to innovate and raise
the bar is what has made this journey so special.
It's been an honor to be part of this incredible
era of motorsport. I leave with immense pride in what
we've achieved. It also with what's in the pipeline for

(04:36):
twenty twenty six, and huge respect for everyone who's made
F one the pinnacle it is today Christian and then
he just lists the accolades that they collected over his
tenure there.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
I feel like it was a shock, but it felt
like one of those things that you read that even
though you knew it was a possibility for some reason,
you just honestly never really thought it would happen. Like
you just kind of felt like this person kind of
was almost invincible in a way.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
It has been with the team so long since they
joined Formula one.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, over twenty years.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
He was the longest tenured team principal in the paddock
up until recently.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, so I feel like everybody was surprised, but also
not like this really weird feeling of almost like damn really, but.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
Maybe it was more surprising the timing because there's been
and we'll get into it, but there have been so
many sort of things bubbling under the surface and sort
of yeah, different things kind of coming together in just
the right way that kind of made it to where
it's like, okay, yeah, like it kind of makes sense.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, I think maybe.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
The timing was a little surprising.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, because the timing is everybody's talking about, and I
mean the biggest the biggest thing is the rumors with
Mercedes and Max. It might be like the driving point,
but there's a lot. We have a bunch of reasons
that are listed that we'll go over. Something interesting that
I thought was that Sky Sports F one's Martin Brundle
revealed that when he spoke to Christian Horner, Christian told
him that he was given no reason for his release

(06:07):
by Red Bull. So I'm sure he is well aware
of what reasons there are, even if they didn't officially
tell him why. I'm sure it's not I'm sure it's
not like this conversation hasn't been happening. If it's happening publicly,
god forbid, what's happening privately. So but the good thing
is we have a list of reasons as to why.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
And a lot of this is speculation.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
It's rumor, it's not not everything is one hundred percent confirmed.
A lot of it does come from things people have intuited,
from statements that people involved with Red Bull have said.
It's basically putting two and two together with certain things
that people have said.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
I mean pretty much each reason is a factual thing
that has happened. It's just it's speculation if if that's
why he's been let go. So a lot of this
information I pulled from sky Sports F one Nigel chu
He is a sports journalist, and he wrote a very
amazingly detailed article about this, and it just felt like
he really wrapped it all up in a nice little

(07:11):
blanket for us. So thank you very much, thank you
for your hard work. And so I pretty much just
pulled from there. So if you are interested in that article,
well we'll have it in the link in the description,
we can link it. So the first one is internal
power struggles, and I think I want to go this
will probably be the only reason we're going to go
into a maybe a little bit of a cruciating detail

(07:33):
on for just a second, because I think a lot
of people get the power struggle thing misconstrued at least
on the everyday conversation of F one, Right, diehard F
one fans that have been following a very long time
are probably already aware of this. It's gonna be a
lot of the newcomers, like even like me and you
and you know, maybe just this year, maybe the past

(07:54):
just I don't know, two or three years, like if not,
they're not aware of how Red Bull itself is actually structured.
Most people, I think when they hear power struggle, they
think Christian and Helmet Marco because they're the ones always
in the media. It's the people actually that are not
talking in the media that hold the power. So let's
talk about that. So the background on Red Bull's ownership structure.

(08:16):
So red Bull GmbH is the parent company and it
is split between two families. Forty nine percent is owned
on the Austrian side, led by Mark Madischitz, son of
the Red Bull founder d trich Matips, who passed away
a few years ago, which his passing essentially is what
started to cause the rift between the two owners of

(08:39):
Red Bull.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
Yeah, so basically my understanding is that Dietrich was the
one that was sort of the peacekeeper.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, he was able to sort of.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
Balance everything and keep people kind of just going with
keep up.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
It's like get with the program and stay with the program,
you know. And so he was the one that.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
Kind of smoothed everything over, and then he passed away,
and then it's like everything just started. He was the
tape and then he passed away, and all the tape
got ripped off and everything started a crack, or at
least the cracks were exposed.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah, and so fifty the other side is so fifty
one percent. So the primary ownership of Red Bull is
the Tie side, led by Chileum Uvidia, son of Red
Bull co founder Chileo u VideA. So the fifty one
percent majority gives the Tie side the final say, making

(09:31):
Uvidia support crucial for Horner's survival. So basically, Christian was
always leaning towards the Tie side to pretty much keep
his role safe. So once the Dietrich passed away, it
really there was the rumor pretty much was that Christian
was trying to get way more power than he had before,
almost trying to take advantage of maybe a troubling time

(09:56):
in leadership, trying to maybe take upon more leadership role
within the company itself, not just as team principal, and
for a while he had the Taie side support, so
it really it just kind of kept this really weird
environment that was clearly struggling and clearly had like bad
feelings towards one another. And the reason all that matters

(10:19):
is after So, like we said, after Dietrich's death in
twenty twenty two, tension quietly grew between both ownerships of
the camp. Horner had historically leaned on his strong relationship
with Uvidia to retain his power. So an example of
him having a strong relationship with the Thai side is
after Christian was sort of cleared of all wrongdoing and

(10:41):
that scandal he was a part of where he was
allegedly accused or he was accused of allegedly having an
inappropriate relationship with a Red Bull employee that he was
controlling and things like that. Once he was cleared of
that by Red Bull, a U video was at his
side at a race basically, so they've always been pretty

(11:02):
close to one another.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
And that's a very public display, like you could say, oh, well,
they're just at a race together.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
That doesn't really mean anything.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
Oh no, no, no, It means everything.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
It means everything. People in positions of power like this,
especially involved majorly in the background of running a company,
senior leadership, things like that, when they're not really super public,
when they do come out in public and it's public
facing in this specific sort of context, they're making a statement. Yeah,
it's not just a coincidence that it was timed this way.

(11:32):
It was very intentional to be like, no, we stand
with Christian and we support him, like.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
That's that was awesome. That wasn't just a statement to
the world. That was a statement to.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
Red Bull, oh, to the Austrian size, Yeah, to the
whole company, to everybody.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
So that's really what that was. That's what I would
assume really more of what it's about. But now in
twenty twenty five, it seems that the tie support has
it has appeared to it's disappeared.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
Either it's it's gone appeared or for whatever reason, it
no longer matters because Christian Horner has been dismissed his role.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
With the team. Yes, so before we kind of delve
into the power internal power struggle, still one other thing
to mention is the other key players in this power struggle. Right,
we have Helmet Marco, a senior motorsport advisor aligned with
the Austrian side, so his position came under fire last
year amid rumors he may have been connected to the

(12:20):
message leak scandal. So, for those who are not aware,
when Christian was cleared by Red Bull of any wrongdoing
essentially with that employee.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yeah, because it was like that they were investigating basically
like workplace like sexual harassment type stuff. Yes, Red Bull
was doing an internal investigation of that, and they were
basically decided from the results of that internal investigation. They
said they weren't taking any further action that they cleared Christian.
And then after that was kind of announced, is when

(12:50):
there was a leak, which I'm like, it's not a
leak if it's intentional, I feel like, but basically almost
I think every team principle at the time and every
most major F one journalists received emails that had it

(13:11):
was basically I don't know if it was screenshots or
transcripts or what, but basically they received emails that showed
messages between alleged messages between Christian and this Red Bull
employee that filed the complaint against him.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yes, and so the rumor was that Helmet Marco did that,
which is why his position came under fire when that happened.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
And he would have done this as an effort to
push public sentiment more even more against Christian.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
Yes, because at that point, if you're trying to play
this game within Red Bull, you have to make Christian
so undesirable publicly that the tie side has no option
but to get rid of him. So that was the
rumor at the time. And if you're not aware, Helmet
Marko Christian Horner are often not in agreement with one another,
so it was just adding more tension now. But talks

(13:57):
with ol of our mince laugh, mince laugh, mints laugh.
He is the CEO of Corporate Project, so he saved
Helmet Marco's job, and apparently it was likely due from
pressure from Max Verstappan, who warned he would not race
if Marco was removed.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
So for those who don't know a little bit more
information or background Max about Max's relationship with Helmet Marco.
So basically Max credits Helmet Marco for getting him into
Formula one. He has said on record that if it
were not for Helmet Marco, he would not have gotten
his seat in a Formula one. He says that help

(14:31):
Marco was critical and crucial to him getting that seat
in Formula one, and he has always said that he
owes everything to Helmet.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
So that is sort of the background between Helmet and Max.
So also the CEO that we talked about, Oliver Minslow,
he is seen as a central decision maker from the
Red Bull GmbH side as well, So having his support
or like having what he says is also very important

(14:58):
holds a lot of weight. Yeah, So that's sort of
just the background on how the internal struggles, Like we're
when people are talking about internal struggles, like it's really
going internally. It's not just at face value what's being
reported by the media. Because Helmet Marco said one thing
or draws for stop and said one thing, like it
goes far deeper than that, And so that's why we
wanted to just sort of mention like what those power

(15:20):
struggles actually are. So like we've already like just to
like sum it all up. Red Bulls top leadership has
been divided for a while. Hell At Marco and Red
Bulls CEO Oliver Minslav were reportedly pushing for Horner to
go and the final decision came down from the Tie
ownership group, signaling a serious internal shift. So something has
happened within Red Bull to make them decide they need

(15:42):
to move on.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
So the next speculated reason as to why Christian Horner
was lego from Red Bull is the decline in performance.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
So you know, you look at Christian Horner's twenty year career.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
With Red Bull, they obviously have not always been the
powerhouse that they have in recent years. So over you know,
when they first started up, until you know, Vettel won
his four drivers championships in a row with Red Bull.
Up until that point, I don't know that Red Bull
was like king of the castle.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
You know.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
They're kind of like midfield team ish not the best.

Speaker 3 (16:19):
They were kind of considered a joke when they first
came into Formula one because they're like, what does an
energy drink manufacturer know about.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Cars? You know, building, constructing, driving, any of it?

Speaker 2 (16:29):
What do they know?

Speaker 3 (16:31):
But you know, so that's I say that to say
that Christian Horner has been with the team when they
were not the best.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
He started with them, I mean, yeah, literally he was
the team principal when red Bull started.

Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah, and so he has been there the whole way
through the development. He helped guide and basically raise this
team from infancy, and you know, to you look at
red Bull's performance this past year, maxis struggled with the
car at times. Whoever has been the second driver at
red Bull has struggled this year and last year with
the car. So whatever direction they took the car in,

(17:06):
obviously it's not working. So there has been a noticeable
decline in performance. They didn't win the Constructors' Championship last
year because you don't have that second driver scoring the
points to help contribute to that. So you know, but
Max did win the Driver's Championship last year. He's won
it four years in a row now, so there's sort
of a you're like, okay, yeah, there's a recent decline

(17:28):
in performance, but Christian has been with the team when
they weren't doing so hot.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah. I wonder if that's also because it's one thing
when the team already isn't hot and then you bring
it up, right, it's another thing when the team has
is hot and has been hot and now the performance
is declining mid towards the end of regulations. You know,
if you start new regulations in the cars, not so hot,
there's it's sort of like, okay, well we got it
wrong and now we has something to work towards. I

(17:54):
mean Red Bull was like killing it twenty twenty three
all that, and then we get into twenty twenty for
and they're doing fairly well. Tell all of a sudden
they're not and they haven't been able to find their footing,
to find that performance, like that dominant performance since and
so I think that's where it's a lot more dramatic.

(18:15):
When you were one second you were on top of
the world, and next you fell off and you cannot
get back up there, and the only reason you do
is because of your driver.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
And I think Formula one is a very fast paced
world in terms of your only as good as your
last race sort of vibe, you know. So I think
that you can always expect there to be some growing pains,
like certain there's gonna be ups and downs basically from
season to season. You can't always just be on this
high all the time. I mean Mercedes is a perfect

(18:45):
example of that, where they were so dominant for you know, years,
for almost a decade with Lewis Hamilton, and then all
of a sudden there was a drop off in performance
and Lewis just wasn't able to achieve what.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
He was used to, but his teammate was always near him.
I think that's where we're getting, you get really towards
like what has happened here, because like you said, like
we've had other teams that just kind of they were
on top of the world and then suddenly they weren't.
But I think there's a weird representation within Red Bull
where that second car cannot cannot and which is just
a testament to Max. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
I mean, he's just unreal in his ability to put
that car where it has no place to being.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yes, And so I think.

Speaker 3 (19:23):
Because his teammates are not bad drivers. No, they've won
races or they've been very successful with other teams, and
then for whatever reason, they get put in the second
rebel car and then they just suck ass.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, And so I think you know that decline in performances,
it's it's not just like, oh, well they were they
started to suck, so they had to get rid of him.
I'm like, I think it's like a multitude of called
multitude of like reasons of what decision making was made
to where this we could not recover like we should
have had a few bad races and then somehow recovered
and then won the constructors last year. Like what has

(19:55):
happened decision wise to make this performance decline? We just
can't catch.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
And what's even worse is they have the sister team,
the junior team Racing Bowls, that even though they're not
winning races, they're consistently.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
Doing pretty okay.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
And whatever driver lineup they've had, because Red Bull likes
to play musical chairs with their driver seats, ye, between
those two teams, whatever lineup they've had, have been close
close enough to each other, right, it's not the despairity
the gap that there is between Max and whoever his
teammate is.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
So it's see, and.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
We had a we talked about this a long time ago,
like months ago, about it seems that the Racing Bulls
car is a better car overall compared to the Red
Bull car because you get more consistent performances from the driver.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Yes, and they're able to achieve more Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, it's an easier car, it seems to drive across
the board for like multiple drivers, and you need a
very specific type of driver that could drive that second
Red Bull.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
Car and then that lot that decline and performance. We're
trying to figure out where it's coming from. And that
leads us into the next point, which would be.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
We've had big names leave red Bull. We've had Adrian
Newey leave red Bull for Aston Martin and Jonathan Wheatley
leave for Sober. And the funny thing is Sober's doing
a lot better this year now, more than we ever expected.
And Aston Martin, you know, has been doing pretty well
the past few races. Is that all a coincidence? Who's

(21:29):
to say, But losing key players like that, that clearly
not only is it just a loss and now you
have to fill a spot, you also have to ask
why did they leave? And you could easily say, oh, well,
they were just ready for a new project. But I
think if you are working for a company that is
showing such issues internally, you get to a point where

(21:49):
you're not gonna have the resume you want anymore. You know,
I'm not damn the car I built didn't win the
constructors it didn't. Max didn't. He wasn't able to win.
He wasn't able to do this Like, it gets to
the point where it reflects on you, and which is
not what you want to If you're.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
Making career moves, you leave on a high right, So
when you're at that top at that it makes sense
that when Red Bull in twenty twenty three is killing it,
your resume is the best it's looked ever. So if
you're a critical part of that team, it would make
sense to them be talking to other teams to basically
jump ship and be like, Okay, I'm doing so well here,
it looks great on my resume. Now let me talk

(22:28):
to these other teams that could potentially offer me more
money or more stability because they're not having the same
sort of fracturing internally that it seems Red Bull is.
And so it could be just a coincidence that that's
just kind of the way that it works when you're
trying to move up in your career. But it you
would expect teams to poach some people or you know,

(22:50):
entice them to come over to join you and your staff.
But when you have such critical people, key members of
the team that a lot of people would contribute a
heavy like they would attribute a heavy amount of the
success to their their role within the team. When you
have those people leaving, it does raise questions about why.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah, because I definitely I could see like, oh, yeah,
you know, we just poached them. If there's two, Like,
I'm sure that's not the first time someone's tried to
buy Adrian Newey. I'm sure it's not. But right now,
where you have this clear, this very public struggle internally
that Red Bulls having, it's just there's you just kind
of have to believe what's happening. You know, you could

(23:32):
make the oh, no, it's all a coincidence. No, I
find it hard to believe that it is. I mean,
if enough thing, if enough people are running out of
the building and then but you see smoke on the building,
but they're saying, no, it's not because it's on fire.
I think that how a building might be on fire
and you didn't want to just leave for fun. I
think you were trying not to get burned to life. Mm. So,

(23:52):
which another thing that this will lead in to the
next point is it could have also maybe they weren't
necessarily pleased with Red Bulls internal investigation and handling of that,
you know, of that type of behavior, not really what
obviously we don't know what's true and what's not true.
I clearly wasn't there and he was found by Red
Bull of no wrongdoing. However, that case actually is not over.

(24:15):
It's just not being handled publicly anymore. There's still some
court that is still handling it privately that has a
media gag on it, from my understanding, so it might
not necessarily be over, and there could be a ticking
time bomb that maybe internally more people are aware of
that they don't want to be there when it happens.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
So just to do kind of in where we're standing
with the where we're at with the mis conduct allegations
against Christian Horner, just because we talked a little bit
already about it. So basically, the woman who was rebumpoy
that accused Horner of the miss Christian Horne of the misconduct.
Red Bull did two internal investigations and through those investigations,

(24:58):
Red Bull cleared him of any wrongdoing it. So basically,
we're not taking this any further like it is what
it is. And then the woman the employee disputed the
independence of one of the lawyers who conducted the investigations,
which again the investigations are internal, but they're paid for
by Red Bull, So you can see where there might
be some sort of bias against her in the interest

(25:19):
of Red Bull in that sort of instance, like any
sort of internal investigation in that regard, unless you're doing
using external outside people to do the investigation and conduct it.
It's just there's too much room for bias in that scenario.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
So it was two internal investigations that they didn't hire
an external company to do an investigation.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
So what I'm reading is that, Yeah, after two internal
investigations carried out by Red Bull GmbH, the British team
pencibles clear to the accusations in twenty twenty four, so
I think they did one and then she might have
appealed it.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah, and it's did another, Okay.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
So basically after that happened, they did those two internal investigations,
she disputed the independence of one of the lawyers who
conducted the investigation, and so the woman she's been on
home leave. She's been at home on paid leave since

(26:19):
the whole thing started, basically, and so it was intended
that the British Labor Court would address the case in
February next year, so I guess twenty twenty six. But
that was something that received little to no attention in
the British media or media in general, and apparently the judge,
so the judge reported lee at the request of Christian

(26:42):
Horner and Red Bull prohibited the British media for reporting
on the case. So there's like a gag order on
talking about it at all in the public. But it's
now emerging that it's still ongoing, like the case is
still ongoing and Red Bull and Christian Horner are trying
to avoid a potentially public lawsuit and so they're kind

(27:02):
of in negotiating. They are in negotiations reportedly with the
woman to come up with a settlement and that's kind
of where they're at now. And the amount is reported
to be in the millions of pounds.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
And it was just interesting because it's kind of like,
you know, he was found of no wrongdoing, then the
text messages were leaked to the media and to all
the team principles. Then this is going on and that
not a lot of people are even aware of because
of the gag order. So it's just it's like it
seems like a ticking time bomb really.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
And there were a lot of people that were calling
for Christian Horner's dismissal when these allegations for surfaced. Yeah,
and even through the first and second internal investigations, and
a lot of people called bullshit on him being cleared
of any wrongdoing, especially after the text the alleged text
messages were leaked.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
And so.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
This is just something, this is just one more thing
added on to the whole mess of everything.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, it's one more thing that Red Bull has to
shield Christian from and protect him from and protect themselves
protect yeah, and protect themselves. But it's just like, you know,
now you're already having maybe you're not happy with some
decision making. Now you have a scandal, which was sometimes
it's like, damn, dude, that was a choice. You are
not a good decision maker, huh.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
And it's one thing if you're if you're winning and
on top of the world and earning people a lot
of money.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
People will forgive you and excuse a lot of bad behavior.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yeah. That's I mean, when this was all closed out,
they were winning.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
Yeah, and they were ignoring it. It seemed like they
were just kind of like, it is what it is.
We're going to keep business as usual and handle the
stuff in the background, is what it seemed that Red
Bull was taking that approach.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah. Uh.

Speaker 3 (28:46):
And but as soon as you start that decline and performance,
as soon as things start to turn a little south,
then all this other stuff. It's like it becomes like
you have to It's like you don't have the anymore
to make to have made a mistake exactly, or to
have done or made a choice that negatively reflects upon
yourself and the company, Like you don't have the right

(29:09):
to do that, Like you don't have any grace anymore.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, because you're not winning exactly. So somebody who has
been very publicly outspoken about Christian Horner and their disapproval
of him and just doesn't very publicly does not like him,
as Joss Forstappen, he was very even when the allegations happened.
I'm pretty sure Joss was one of the ones that
are like fire him. So yeah, yeah, and Joss is
Max's father, yes, so he is also a former Formula

(29:33):
One driver. But he has he's publicly said to the
media that the team was falling apart under Christian Horner.
He has been very i mean just a very vocal
person about Christian and so now last year this happened
with Max where it was rumored maybe he would go
to Mercedes and a lot of those rumors swirled around

(29:54):
Jos trying to make it happen because he was just done.
He wanted him Max to pretty much be dumb the
Red Bull.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
Yeah, Jos was like caught quote unquote.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah, having a meeting with Toto or something.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yeah. And some people say, oh, that was just to
fuel the speculation and because he's just like fucking with Christian.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
Horner, like order's trying to fuck with Red Bull and yeah,
make it do what do you want to do, which
now kind of leads to this year, the same conversation's
happening of Max leaving Red Bull and so some of this,
even though a lot of people were like, oh, it's done,
it's a done deal. Red Bulls falling apart, Christian's gone,
Max is gonna bounce, some people have the opinion that

(30:32):
getting rid of Christian was to keep Max. So it
was to keep the first stap in camp happy, and
that became more important than keeping Christian Horner.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
And you know, it's it's a very real possibility. And
I'm saying and I'm saying this is true. I'm just
saying this is more speculation. It's a very real possibility
that Jos Verstappen was acting as a mouthpiece to express
what Max actually was thinking or feeling when Max was
not in a position to do so or had no
desire to do so. And so he's not one to

(31:06):
really delve into the messy political side of it.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
He just wants to race.

Speaker 3 (31:10):
However, if he was not happy with the direction of
the team or with the allegations or Christians handling of
the situation for whatever reason, he could be having those
conversations with his father, and his father could just be
acting as a mouthpiece to say the things that Max
either doesn't want to say publicly or that he can't
say publicly because of his contract with Red Bull. Right,
because I would imagine as part of your contract with

(31:33):
any team you can't make disparaging remarks about the team.
You could acknowledge struggles and try to be you know,
we're struggling, but we'll keep fighting, and but you can't
openly outright say like anything disparaging about your team. However,
jospher Stoppin is, as far as I'm aware, not employed
by Red Bull and not under contract with Red Bull,

(31:54):
so he could say whatever Fricky wants to say.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Yeah, and he does yeah. So, yeah, he's been very
critic of Christian and I do think it could be
interesting because it seems like we've already discussed Max really
is loyal to Helmet, and you know that could maybe

(32:17):
it's like, listen, dude, I don't want to leave, but
I can't do this anymore with how the team's being ran.
And so maybe this is just that step to show
Max like, all right, we hear you, we're ready to
move on as well, like and it's maybe it's just
more of a we want to change the direction of
the team. We want you to see we're changing the
direction of the team. And then may basically maybe that's
please don't leave.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
I mean Max expressed frustration with the instability within the team. Yeah,
I mean, in particular, I'm thinking of the second driver's
seat at Red Bull. You know, he's had what through
this is his third teammate in two seasons.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, you know, and as a driver too, I mean,
not only is it frustrating your teammates not getting points,
but I could also find it very frustrating as a
driver to just see somebody in your camp treat drivers
so disposable. You know, I think that could make you
really maybe not like a person to see how disposable
they act like these people are, especially where you are.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
Like he liked Checko.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
He's yeah, he liked everybody.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
Really, I think, well, Max has talked about before he
had a great relationship with Checko.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
He thought he did.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
You know, I think they worked really well together in
terms of not just like getting along, but like the
development and.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
The team and input and yeah, you.

Speaker 3 (33:32):
Know, in the development of the car and stuff like that.
I think he really got along with Checko and liked
working with him. But at the end of the day,
you know, the performance isn't there on track, the performance
isn't there, and so I but when they kicked Checko
to the curb like that, when check I was supposed
to have a contract, yeah, and they had signed they'd
re up check O for another year and then we're like,

(33:52):
ha ha, just kidding, peace out. They paid him out
his Like that is crazy to me, Like that to me,
if I'm Max, I'm like, what are we doing? How
are you gonna Why are we flip flopping so much?
Why are we being inconsistent with our messaging with the
direction we're gonna go? Like, how are you gonna sign
him for a contract extension, but then not honor it

(34:13):
and just pay him out like that's a waste of money.
And like the way all of that messiness. Max again
does not like messiness.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
He doesn't he wants to race and he wants to
go home and then he wants to summ race. He
doesn't want all the drama. He barely likes talking to
the media.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
And so yeah, that would be a very clear sign
to me if I'm Max that like there's some shit
going on here that it's not. It doesn't build confidence
in me for this team and its future. If this
is the way that we're gonna run things.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
So speaking of running things, uh, we've got some big
changes coming in twenty twenty six for all of F one.
And this is again another reason why, a potential reason
why Christian would have been let go. So with new
regulations and rebel power trains on the horizon, the team
maybe looking for a reset. So for the longest time,

(35:10):
Red Bull was using Renault Engines manufactured, which basically also
makes the engines for like Alpine, and then they made
the switch to Honda several years ago, and so they
had been running Honda engines since I want to say
it was like twenty nineteen or so twenty twenty. Maybe
they've been running hot to engines for a while, maybe

(35:30):
twenty eighteen. Anyway, they've been running hot engines for a while.
But now Red Bull is trying to get in the
game of making their own engines.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
Yeah, and so.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
They've partnered with Ford to manufact for those Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
Yeah, which who knew an energy drink company would be
making their own F one engines?

Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah. I mean red Bull does everything, but just for
sell energy drinks. They're like, I'm in every sport ever.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
And so basically it could be that they're looking to
start a new chapter, start over fresh as especially with
all the struggles they've had recently, the drama with the
driver changes, the drama, the allegations against Christian, all the
infighting behind the scenes and the power struggles. Like, it
could just be that they're like, look, we just got

(36:14):
a blank slate start over, and twenty twenty six is
sort of the perfect moment to do that because we've
got the new regulations coming in for all of that
F one and so basically by appointing a new CEO,
by appointing Lauren Mechi's. That kind of gives them time
to get him settled into that role with the team
this year for the rest of this year, so that

(36:36):
he we're kind of getting that growing pains period out
of the way and going strong into twenty twenty six.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
Yeah, I definitely think doing it mid season does make sense.
It also gives Mechi's the chance to really understand what
the team is lacking, and you know, having a fresh
pair of eyes could change everything, you know, having a
different style of leadership. And clearly both camps felt this
was the right move, meeting both camps being the Austrian

(37:05):
side and the Tie side, like, they clearly felt this
was the right thing to do. So it'll be interesting
to see now that they don't have that contention between
each other, what are they able to accomplish. So now,
so those are all like sort of the potential reasons
Christian may have been let go. We obviously don't know
for certain which of these reasons was or if it
was all of them, or if there's something we don't

(37:26):
even know about. But that being said, even though he
has been let go, Christian Horner does have a pretty
powerful legacy, I would say, which we're going to delve
into now, just take a few minutes to kind of
even though Christian can sometimes be a sassy drama starter,
just gets under a lot of people's skin, you can't

(37:48):
really deny what he accomplished at Red Bull, and I
think it's worth noting what his legacy. Yet you know
what he's leaving, you know his rise to Red Bull,
Like why even Red Bull chose him? And yeah, so
we're gonna about that. So before Christian Horner was even
in Red Bull, he began as a racing car driver,
competing in Formula Reno, British F three and then International

(38:09):
Formula three thousand in the late nineteen nineties. He quickly
realized he was never going to make it as a
Formula one driver, so he pivoted to management. So in
nineteen ninety seven, at just twenty three years old, Horner
founded Arden International, a Formula three thousand team, using borrowed
funds and sponsorship deals. As team boss, he built Arden

(38:30):
into a championship winning operation, claiming multiple titles and establishing
himself as a sharp, ambitious leader all before turning thirty.
So his success with Arden caught the attention of Red Bull,
who were looking for someone young and bold to lead
their newly acquired F one team. So he you know,
it's impressive and seems like the perfect you already bought.

(38:53):
You already took a chance buying an F one team.
Why not take a chance on this kid?

Speaker 3 (38:56):
Yeah, and I mean with Red Bull, if he is
at that time perfect fit for who they are as
a company and what they're trying to do, because Red
Bull is all about youth, and they're all about boldness,
making bold choices, bold statements.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
They like to push things to the extreme.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
And so what better statement that accompasses all of that
than to bring on somebody who has had great success
at such a young age. I mean, it's one of
the reasons that Red Bull I think was pushing so
hard to sign even Max or Stappan and bring them
on at seventeen years old and the F one because
they were trying to get like the youngest Formula One

(39:33):
race winner, like as a record sort of thing, like because.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
They're just like they already had the youngest champion. Yeah,
so they still have the youngest champion.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
Because they're like, we want and again, if it's just
in with them as a brand, they everything just kind
of lined up perfectly for.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
Them for that.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
So in two thousand and five, at just thirty one
years old, Horner was appointed team principle of Red Bull Racing,
making him the youngest team principle in F one history
at the time. His leadership made an immediate impact, with
top ten finishes in his debut race, improving drastically from
Jaguar's prior struggles, which we mentioned earlier that Jaguar sold
the their F one team to Red Bull.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah for a very little for a dollar supposedly.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
So one of his smartest early moves was recruiting legendary
aerodynamicist Adrian Newey at the end of two thousand and five,
which I mean, that was an incredible get for him.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
Adrian Newey has been.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
In Formula one for a very long time and has
an incredible success record with teams like Williams and McLaren
and so that was a huge get for Christian, like
that just it was a brilliant move for him and
for the team, and that kind of shows like Red
Bull made the right choice in who they selected to

(40:48):
run their team, because like that's just crazy.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
He started to build a powerhouse. So Red Bull's first
podium came in two thousand and six, and by two
thousand and nine they were fighting for championships. So within
his first year he already got more points on the
board than Jaguar F one was able to do. And
now by two thousand and six he gets a podium.
By two thousand and nine they're fighting for championships. So
we're talking just within a few years, Christian Horner's managed
to turn this team into what contender, which is pretty phenomenal.

(41:13):
And then from twenty ten to twenty thirteen, Red Bull
dominated Formula One, winning four consecutive constructors and drivers' titles
with Sebastian Vettel, who to this day is the youngest
world champion in F one history. So once again really
just kind of hammering in the point of they love
young and bold talent. Horner's leadership style combined strong technical

(41:36):
direction with loyalty to key staff and drivers, So basically
it seemed that Christian just knew how to build an
impenetrable empire. To be honest, it just seemed like he
knew what people he needed to appoint to make those
things happen, and he also knew how to create loyalty,
in which I think a lot of people underestimate.

Speaker 3 (41:59):
So it's like, it's not enough to acquire the talent.
You have to keep them and you have to make
them loyal to you. And you do that by cultivating
a good work environment, compensating people fairly, moving them up,
and giving promotions when they're deserved and earned, and acknowledging
all that stuff. Like there's a lot that goes into that,
and it makes you kind of wonder, like what happened

(42:20):
to go so wrong? Where you know he was able
to do all of this early on and then now
it's all of that, all those same things, his decision making,
his ability to acquire good talent and key roles and
to keep them, to develop that loyalty to the team.
Where did all of that go? It just raises the question.
So after those initial championship wins with Vettel, there was

(42:45):
a few kind of like mess seasons at Rebel, and
then we rise again with the birth of Max for
Steven the Savior, our Lord and Savior. So they won
the Driver's Championship with Mac in twenty twenty one, then
sweat both titles. So the drivers and the constructors championships
in twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three. In twenty

(43:07):
twenty three, the team setter record of twenty one race
wins in a single season, which is one of the
most dominant years in Formula One history. I would argue
that makes for a pretty boring season when you just
have the same team.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
That won twenty one out all.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
We know how you feel about winners. That's now down
to the fall.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
The rise with Max and then the fall.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Yes, So in twenty twenty four and twenty twenty five,
Red Bull's performance began to slide. I would argue, really,
just in twenty twenty four started to slide, and in
twenty twenty five sometimes its spikes, but it's just steadily
going down. The car became unpredictable and Verstappen was often
carrying the team alone. The team also saw a wave
of key departures Adrian Newey, Rob Marshall, Jonathan Wheatley, raising

(43:59):
questions about internal stability, which we spoke about earlier. And
at the same time, Horner became the subject of a
misconduct investigation. Though cleared, leaked private messages caused public and
internal backlash. Rumors of tension with Max ver Stappens camp grew,
especially with for Stapfin's father Joss publicly criticizing Horner's leadership,
which we all kind of spoke about the timeline wise,

(44:20):
this is when all that started to happen.

Speaker 3 (44:22):
Yeah, So since the again, and some of this is
just recapping what we've already talked about. So since the
twenty twenty two death of Red Bull founder Dietrich matichits
internal power struggles intensified. Red Bull GmbH is split we
talked about earlier, with the forty nine percent owned by
the Austrian Matichitz family and then kind of their camp
and then fifty one percent owned by the Thai Uvidia family.

(44:45):
So Christian Horner had long retained support from a Thai side,
but by July twenty twenty five that support had evaporated.
And then on July night, twenty twenty five, Christian Horner
was dismissed mid season, ending his two decade reign.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
Yes, and like we said earlier, and like Red Bull
had already kind of said what Christian's legacy was with them,
but just to recap his legacy, eight drivers' championships, four
with Vettel, four with Max Verstappen six Constructors' Championships, one
hundred and twenty four grond prity wins, took Red Bull
from a pound acquisition to one of the most dominant
forces in Formula One and widely regarded as one of

(45:19):
the most successful team principles in Formula one history. So
whether you like him, whether you hate him, doesn't really
matter how you feel. You can't really deny the fact
that he did something pretty special with Red Bull. Now,
moving on, we want to talk about who is taking
over Red Bull and that would be Laurent Mechi's. So
if you're not aware, he was the team principle of

(45:39):
Racing Bulls and he has now been promoted to Red
Bull as the CEO and team principle. So we want
to talk about a little bit about him and his
backstory and just you know, just so going into the
weekend you can have an idea of who he is.
So Lauren Meckis was born in France in nineteen seventy seven.
He earned a master's degree in mechanical engineering from Eestaca

(46:05):
in Paris, a top French aerodynamical and automotive engineering school.
He completed his studies at Loughborough University in the UK,
a well known training ground for Formula One engineers. He
first stepped into motorsport between two thousand and two thousand
and five. He began his motorsport career in two thousand
with Asia Tech, working in Formula three engine development. Shortly

(46:27):
after he entered Formula One, joining aeros F one team
as an engineer. In two thousand and two, he moved
to Minardi, where he became a race engineer and worked
closely with several drivers, Mark Weber in two thousand and two,
Justin Wilson in two thousand and three, Zalt Bomgartner between
two thousand and three and two thousand and four, and Chris
John Alberts in two thousand and five. Magys became known

(46:49):
for his calm track side presence and technical reliability during
this early phase of his career, so he was promoted
to chief engineer at Toro Rosso in between two thousand
and six. In twenty fourteen, so at the end of
two thousand and five, Red Bull acquired Minarti and rebranded
it as Scuderia Toro Rosso, Mechis was promoted to chief engineer,
overseeing the team's vehicle performance division. He played a key

(47:12):
role in developing the team's engineering structure as Red Bull
established a full second team in F one, so he
also in twenty fourteen, Mechs joined the FIA Formula one's
governing body as safety Director. He was instrumental in implementing
safety features, most notably the Halo cockpit protection device. In
twenty seventeen, he was promoted to Deputy Race Director, helping

(47:35):
oversee operations during Grand Prix. His role required neutrality, attention
to regulation, and deep technical knowledge experience that shaped his
leadership style. So in September of twenty eighteen, Mechis moved
back to a team role, joining Guderia Ferrari as sporting director.
In twenty nineteen, he was promoted to lead Ferrari's Track
and Performance department, managing engineering execution during race weekends. In

(47:58):
twenty twenty one, he became deputy team principal and Racing Director,
working alongside Mattia Benotto and later on Fred Weser. During
this time, Ferrari returned to race winning form, taking several
polls and victories with Charles Leclair and Carlos Science. Mekis
became a trusted leader during race operations and was deeply
involved in real time team strategy, so in twenty twenty

(48:21):
four he returned to the Red Bull family, though in
twenty twenty three it was announced that Mechis would leave
Ferrari and he stepped away just before the Belgian Grand
Prix at SPA. He officially began his new role in
twenty twenty four as team principal of Racing Bulls formerly
Al Fatari, Red Bull's sister team. Mekis began overseeing team restructuring,
infrastructure investments and a new driver lineup, building Racing Bulls

(48:44):
into a more competitive outfit. So it's interesting because we
have somebody who clearly has had you could see as
track record and see how he's improved every time he's
been a part of something, he improves it and so.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
And he just keeps getting He's literally working his way
up and up and up and just keeps delivering. Yeah,
and like you said, it's very clear that he joins
a project, improves it, and then takes the next step.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
Further his career. Yeah, So why Mechi's could matter in
helping Red Bull. He has a lot of different layers
to him. You know, he's been an engineer, he's been
an FIA official, a Ferrari strategist. He brings experience across
multiple different fields, which I think can really I could

(49:32):
see that being very helpful and restructuring a team. He
has a driver's first mindset, it seems, having worked with
a wide range of drivers since his minority days, he
understands the balance between performance and people, which I think
having somebody that's a driver first mindset, especially where it
seems drivers come across as very disposable a Red Bull
could really help heal some of the issues that they've had. Really,

(49:55):
you need somebody that's going to support the drivers, and
I think, you know that's something within racing Bulls he's
kind of proven. Yeah, he seems very calm under pressure.
His time as deputy race director gave him poison high
stake environments, so he works well under pressure, staying calm
under pressure, and probably maybe he won't be his mouthy

(50:16):
I don't know, maybe he won't feed into stuff because
I mean that also, I'm sure Red Bull did not
enjoy Christian doing all the time. So you know, now
he has the chance to lead Red Bull into a
new era. And now he has and I mean I
feel like just even from reading everything he's been through,
I would it sounds like a breath of fresh air
in a way. So we'll just see how he goes.
But that is sort of the who is Lauren Mickey's.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
And now we can talk about the person taking over
his former role at Racing Bulls. Yes, so Alan Permain
is now the new team principal at Racing Bulls.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
So.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
He was born in nineteen sixty seven in England. He
joined Bennetton F one in nineteen eighty nine, so he
would have been about twenty two years old. He initially
worked in electronics and test engineering before stepping into race
engineering in nineteen ninety six. As a race engineer from
nineteen ninety seven to two thousand and six, so roughly

(51:11):
ten years, he worked with drivers such as Gene Alessi,
Jarno Truly.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
And gen Carlo fis Fisicelee Fisicella Fisicella.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
It's worth noting that he was considered the mastermind behind
Truly's stunning Monaco GP win in two thousand and four.
So in two thousand and seven, Permaine was promoted to
chief race engineer during the team's evolution from Benetton to
Renault with the team's rebrand to Lotus and later Alpine.
He became chief operating officer in twenty eleven, then sporting
director in twenty twelve, leading race operations through continuous organizational changes.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
So that was a very uh there's a lot of
change going on during you know that.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
I want to say, that's like six seven years time
with the team which is now Alpine as we know it.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
So he was kind of there. It seems like a.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
Almost like a stabilizing sort of presence, like able to
kind of figure out and maneuver their way through all
these sort of restructurings and team changes. So he is
known for his candid race communication. So he's famously direct
on the radio. Highlighted I remember this highlighted buy a
message to Kimmy Reichenen in twenty thirteen where he said,
quote move out of the effing way end quote. So

(52:32):
his fire communication under pressure became kind of part of
his reputation, which I love. I love that, especially the
ice fan. Yeah, So Kimmy Reichenen is very known for
not he's very stoic, known to be very stoic except
when he was on the radio and frustrated during races
where he would just cuss up a storm and start
yelling and hollering and hooping, and it's very funny that

(52:56):
Perbane has like.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Giving it back to him. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:59):
So he was with Alpine was the team that is
known at Alpine now, so for thirty years, through all
their evolutions and changes. He was with them for thirty
years and then he stepped away in twenty twenty three
after the Belgian Grand Prix, and in January twenty twenty
four he joined Racing Bulls as racing Director, partnering with

(53:20):
Lauren Meckis and CEO Peter bayer So. On July nine,
twenty twenty five, with Mechi's being promoted to Rebel Racing's
team principal, Permayne was named team Principle.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
Of Racing Buls.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
With thirty four years of F one experience, he brings
rich technical expertise, strategic insight and familiarity with high pressure
racing environments. So why his role at Racing Boles could
matter so deep engineering and racetrack roots. His career spans
from electronics engineering to top tier race leadership. He's a
master of transition, so he sustained performance through team evolutions

(53:57):
Benetton to Renault Lotus and then Alpine, a direct, decisive
communicator known for tough but effective leadership on the radio.
And he's a stabilizer and a strategist position to bring
continuity and structure to Racing Bulls ahead of F one's
twenty twenty six regulation changes.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
That make I feel like those make sense in hindsight.
You know, you're dealing with two people that clearly know
how to deal with a restructure, and yeah, I feel
like that.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
I mean, I would argue that both of them have
experienced in F one that either rivals Christian Horners or
exceeds it.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
Yeah. So now that about wraps up. You know the
what happened to Christian, Who's replacing him and who's replacing
Mechi's at Racing Bulls. So now we can move on
briefly to the rumors about Yuki Sonoda that have come
out right after the Christian Horner news, which I am

(54:52):
not happy about whatsoever. No, leave Yuki alone exactly now.
At the time of filming this, Red Bull has made
no official announcement of this, but outlets like GP blog
and Newsweek have reported on this is that Yuki Sonoda
and Red Bull will be parting ways with each other
starting in twenty twenty six, so after this season Red
Bull it will be moving on to find a new driver.

(55:15):
Now again, Red Bull has not made this official announcement.
These are out you know, other outlets reporting that sources
have told them this. So we wanted to kind of
talk about Yuki's history with Red Bull and Alfatari and
since it he'll be wrapping it up it seems with them,
just to kind of give an overview of what his

(55:35):
relationship with Red Bull has been the start of Yuki's
history with Red Bull began in twenty nineteen when he
joined their racing academy and started to race with them
under some junior series. He was then promoted to Alpha
Tari Red bull sister team at the time as a
race driver in twenty twenty one, partnering with Pierre Gasley continued.
He continued racing for Alfatari in twenty twenty two and

(55:57):
twenty twenty three, driving alongside Nick Devrese and later Daniel Ricardo.
He stayed with the team during its rebrand to Racing
Bulls in twenty twenty four, and Sonoda was promoted to
Red Bull Racing, replacing Liam Lawson earlier this year, So,
I mean, I think we've taught We briefly spoke about
it in other episodes. A lot of Yuki's relationship with

(56:19):
the Red Bull seems to have come from Honda wanting
to have a Japanese driver in Formula One.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
Yeah, since the since Honda was supplying the engine for
Red Bull.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Yeah, which I mean, I guess they were supplying it
for Red Bull Racing and Red Bull. Well now red
Bull Racing and Red Bull Racing, Bulls racing bull Damn
that shit. Can they just pick a different name.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Racing bulls and Red Bull Racing.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
Yes. So now the question lies why this might be happening.
I couldn't tell you. I mean, it's one of those
things that doesn't surprise me, but it sucks because I
love Yuki.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
Yeah, it's it's one of those things where.

Speaker 3 (57:00):
There, Yeah, he hasn't had the best performance with Red
Bull since being promoted up to that seat earlier this season,
but we can almost certainly say that's because of the car,
it's not because of Yuki. He was achieving pretty well
with Racing Bowls last year, and at the start of
this year he seemed to be doing.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
Okay, and was kind of positive.

Speaker 3 (57:20):
About the direction they were going, and then we made
the jump up, was brought up to the Red Bull
team and it's just not been doing great again. I
think we can almost we can pretty confidently say it's
the car and not Yuki's ability to drive the car.
I think that during his time in Formula one he's
matured a lot. Since joining in twenty twenty one, he's

(57:42):
matured a lot as a driver. He's I think able,
He's shown that he can lead a team when he
was with Racing Bulls. He also had an extremely successful
feeder series career. I mean he's he has championship titles
with four Japanese Japanese F four, the Japanese F for
East series, and so he has three different championships within

(58:04):
the Formula one feeder series, like three different ones. I mean,
he's been a part of multiple series. He won the
FIA Rookie of the Year in twenty twenty. I think
he's a solid midfield team driver. I don't necessarily see
Yuki winning any championships. I think he could be a
solid contributor to a team, especially a midfield team. But

(58:28):
that being said, we haven't really seen what he can
do in a championship contending car.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
It's one of those things where I'm like, you know,
Oscar Piastre is an example of somebody who you know,
he won championships and now he's arguably he's one of
the big He's one of the contenders to win the
F one Championship this year.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
You know.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
So it's kind of like if you if you put
somebody who clearly has racecraft talent in a car that
is that one they can drive, you know, that's who's
to say Yuki couldn't win a championship.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
So it seems like maybe it.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
I don't. I just don't know.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
It's it's kind of like we can't really say exactly
why they would get rid of Yuki, but you can
kind of say, well, it could be for any number
of reasons, but they don't.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
None of them seem like strong reasons independent of each other.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
You know. I think they want to start over. I
think they want to have I mean, if I had
to speculate just a little bit, maybe it's they want
they hopefully they're crossing their fingers they get to keep Max,
who can you know they've leaned on in the past,
to help them develop the car, which we lean on
your driver and that's fine, And maybe they want to
bring somebody fresh in to be the other person that

(59:39):
helps develop this new car. Maybe, But I mean, I
don't know.

Speaker 3 (59:42):
Lauren Meckis is used. Yeah, he has experienced working with
Yuki at racing bowls. So if it's ultimately left up
to him, he could want to keep Yuki on for
at least twenty twenty six. Maybe he's, you know, the
first year in with this team because he is used
to work.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Could be I don't know who's to say, who's to say?
But something I found very interesting though, is you know
that we all get to like, what does this mean
for Yuki's future? Where could he land? So because now
we're now operating under the assumption that the rumors are
true that he will not be a part of Red
Bull next year. And another reason that some of these
whole some of this rumor holds some water to it

(01:00:18):
is because Koji Wantana be the president of Honda. He
told a outlet in Japan as dash web dot JP
that he confirmed that Yuki Sonoda will be supported through
the remainder of the twenty twenty five season. He emphasized
that there are no discussions about replacing Sonoda mid season

(01:00:38):
and that Honda remains committed to him for the year. Now,
moving on to twenty twenty six, he said that Honda,
since it's ending its engine partnership with Red Bull after
twenty twenty five and shifting its full focus to Aston Martin,
who already have their driver lineup, locked and loaded, Yuki
won't have a Honda powered seat waiting for him. So
with that in mind, the Honda has made it very

(01:01:00):
clear that Yuki is free to sign with any other
F one team in twenty twenty six if he wants to,
they will not fight him on it, and even those
powered by rival manufacturers Light Cadillac or HAS Something. I
would like to say. This goes back to a conversation
that me and you had. I don't even know if
you remember this. I don't know that it was even

(01:01:20):
an F one review episode. Oh, this would have been
like a last year end of last year where I said,
has is now moving to Toyota. They have a technical
partnership with Toyota Toyoda. Okay, that's it is year, didn't it? Yeah,
because Toyota Kazook say they had not been a part
of formulae for a while, and then they came back
with HAS. So Toyota is Japanese. I remember speculating it

(01:01:42):
would because we knew at the time that Honda was
moving on to Acid Martin and we didn't think there'd
be a seat there. So what happens to Yuki and
you know, maybe HAS if they want to stay with,
you know, supporting a Japanese driver, if you know, if
Toyota has any sort of pull about who the seed is,

(01:02:03):
that would not shock me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
I mean in HAS at this point is mid to
bottom field as a team right now, So I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Could be a conversation to be had.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
Yeah, potential, But I mean there's no concrete ties between
Yuki and Toyota.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
It's just speculation at that point.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
Yeah, that's pure speculation because they're Bojo. I don't really
know that I see much happening with Cadillac. I definitely
think that there they Cadillac seems to be leany the
rumors are paras and botas.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
Part of me is like, I'm not mad about but
the other part of me is like, I thought part
of the bringing a new because we speculated forever ago
that with Cadillac coming on, they're probably going to go
for a driver lineup that's more experience based that you know,
so they would go for somebody like a botas uh
that they could have somebody with experience helping to develop

(01:02:59):
the team in its early stages and giving them some
leadership in terms of just kind of everyone gelling and
figuring out how to run a Formula One team. It's
helpful to not have a rookie in that driver in
that scenario. So we kind of speculated that a while ago.
So I'm not surprised at that lineup, but part of
me is like, well, kind of one of the exciting
things about having a an eleventh F one team on

(01:03:23):
the grid is that you have two more seats for
two more drivers. And I know that there seems to
be like a hunger for new talent and making room.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
For new talent.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
It depends how go We already got like fives, I know,
and honestly like which I know this is in what
we're talking about, but I mean, Paraz comes with so
much money it's not a bad thing. But yeah, so
it'll be interesting to see how this plays out the
rest of the season. It'll be interesting to see Spa
and to see what can Mechy's do in the few

(01:03:55):
months they have left, which I mean, honestly, he's going
to just be probably so having to concentrate hard on
just restructuring things. I don't think this is going to
be an overnight fix. But I think it seems to
me that Red Bull is pretty much accepted that they
have to rebrand, they have to restructure, and I don't
think it doesn't seem that they expect to change something overnight.
They're trying to change their future.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
Yeah, Mechi's has got a lot on his plate to
handle right now because he's going to have to manage
the team through the rest of this season while simultaneously
making changes with internally within the company to you know,
make hiring decisions and moving people around, promotions whatever, to
kind of restructure things and looking forward. So he's got

(01:04:38):
a lot on his plate, but he's done a lot
of this stuff before.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
Yeah, he's got a lot of experience doing it. So
hopefully he's up to the task and we shall see
what we end up with at the end of the
season and where Red Bull stands.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
So just to recap things, we Christian Horner is gone
from Red Bull, Mechis is in Red Bull and Permayne
is in Racing Bulls Bukiet.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
To notice feature is up in the air.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
It's questionable. So guys, that pretty much wraps all this up.
What do you think of these changes? It seems the
Internet didn't really care, But what do you guys think?
Do you think this was the right call? I get
the feeling it probably was, but it's still kind of
sad to see someone's legacy sort of end on a
sour note though. Yeah so yeah, But anyway, guys, we

(01:05:24):
will talk at you next time after SPA.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
Bye bye,