May 23, 2025 • 29 mins
Elite travel teams are causing local rec programs to close for lack of facilities payed for by travel teams
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are
solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not
those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We
make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
or products mentioned on air or on our web. No
liability explicitor implies shall be extended to W four CY
Radio or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments
should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for
(00:20):
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
The National Alliance for Youth Sports was born out of
a desire to bring order to the world of organized
sports for children in America. While for the most part,
children have a great experience playing sports, far too often
parents and coaches lose perspective. Only gets you to night
because you let me down, coach all night you did,
(00:46):
I'll get you vice its croo debt. This program is
aimed at bringing some of America's best experts to talk
about what we can do to change the atmosphere of
win at all costs and parent poor behavior to one
that focuses on children having a positive learning experience through sports.
Here's our host, Fred Ang the founder of a national
(01:09):
Alliance for Youth Sport.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Hey, good morning everybody, and welcome to I think this
is a sixteenth edition of Why Johnny eight Sports, and
we're happy this morning to have somebody from a little
bit north of us here in Florida, Austin.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Tub's good morning, Austin, Good morning, Fred.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Hey.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
You know, most people.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Ride by parks and recreation d see signs this park here,
that park there, and they never really understand. I think,
with we people that have been in the recreation field,
what that's all about. Can you take you a minute
and just explain to the viewers what it's all about.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
Pres I mean, parks and recreation is I think a
very unique field because it's different for everybody. A lot
of people only experience the recreation programming or summer camp
aspect of parks and recreations. Some only experienced athletics side
of it. Some experience exclusively the national parks and the
state parks, which are more passive recreation experiences where you
(02:16):
either camp or you just explore the trails. So my
position includes a little bit of all of that, because
at my park, I have some nature trails, I have
some organized recreation programming, And then in a couple of
weeks from now, I'm opening up a new park in
downtown Raleigh where it's gonna be a play area, but
(02:40):
it's also gonna combine passive play space in order to
be very intergenerational, to be able to cater to both
the old and the young and young at heart. And
I think that's what Parkers and recreation is all about,
just a lot of mental and physical stimulation and health.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Were you an athlete or the reason you got into
to recreation Was it because you played sports sometime in
your life.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
Yeah, it's actually funny. I used to play competitive junior
tennis and my goal was to become a recreation director
of a private tennis resort. And when I was in school,
I was attending Florida International University in Miami. I was
studying for my bachelor's and Recreation Sports Management. I was
(03:34):
seeing in about public sector budgeting class and thought, I'm
never going to need to use this because I'm going
to work in a private sector my entire career. So
it just so happened that after I graduated college, my
parents bought a house down in Florida, Keys and I
moved down there. Got my first job in parks recreation,
and I fell in love with the field because of
(03:54):
the amount of variety. I could both be a coach,
I could be an umpire, I could be a referee,
to be an administrator of sports. So I felt like
I could make a positive impact and still pursue my
passions of parks and recreation.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Yeah, that's pretty interesting. You know, you mentioned me a
new facility there in Raleigh, and I'm thinking about the
whole question that we've been dealing with for the last
couple people like yourselves talking about travel ball and the
travel ball I've seen, and I'm wondering what you have
(04:33):
seen as you're beginning to build these new facilities, because
before what would happen is, you know, recreation baseball or
whatever particular sport would be out there parents who would
register a field and get a permit. And now you
see a lot of the travel ball situations that are
(04:53):
at me.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
What have you seen now in Raleigh?
Speaker 5 (04:57):
So in roller there's always an opportunity to cost you're
opening up a new park. So with this park, it
used to be a dog park and an athletics space.
There used to be a couple of baseball fields over here,
but we renovated them to turn them into a unique
play space. And I think that I think that we
(05:17):
were just trying to find our identity, so we decided
to create a more inclusive environment because athletics can sometimes
be seen as a little bit niche So I think
that we've really tried to focus on putting all of
our athletics over to our more athletic focused parks with
(05:38):
actual programming and ability to run our proper rec leagues
and tournaments.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
But you would said to me at one point in time,
I remember about travel teams. You dealt with a parent
one time that talked about having their kid in travel ball,
and it was an old enough you thought about that story.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Yeah, sure.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
So that was during my time with the Town of
Miami Lakes as the parks and Athletics manager. There was
an adamant parent that had petitioned to the Optimist Club
in Miami Lakes to put his son on the travel team,
even though his son.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Was five years old.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
So I spoke with the administrators of the Optimus Club
and they said that they don't do travel ball at
that age because it doesn't promote growth and it doesn't
inspire I love the sport because it's just too much,
too soon for the kids. So I talked to the
(06:43):
parent and explained to him that the overarching philosophy of
this league was for recreation and development of talent and
still in the passion in the kids, so they would
learn to have fun and fall in love with the
sport first skills baseline of competencies before they enter the
(07:04):
more competitive score watching aspect of youth.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Sports spoken like a real rec professional thereof.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
And I love it. I think it's great.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
But you know, across the country we've seen you know,
travel teams kind of taking over facilities. I mean here,
I live in West Palm Beach and I live right
across the street from seeing a baseball field that is
totally empty. Nobody comes over like they used to register,
(07:37):
you know, to use those fields in former league and
playing kids playing baseball.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
And you see baseball participation now across the country keeps
going down and down.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
And I wonder, you know, even though that you're not
directly involved now with leagues and whatnot, what is the
atmosphere there with the people, what do they you that
are in charge of those facilities.
Speaker 5 (08:04):
Yeah, so I think it's one of those things where
one hand washes the other. So I know in Miami
League's lakes, we started to see a decline not only
in numbers for participation, but we also started to see
a decline in talent because we were trying to push
kids up to the travel teams too soon, because we
kept one to expand our travel league program, and that
(08:28):
created some uncompetitive teams. So instead of just fielding one
really good team, we would field two teams that were
both pretty mediocre and would end up getting bounced in
the first or second round of a travel tournament. So
I think that the Optimist Club was trying to focus
more on developing talent in the recreation the more recreational
(08:52):
leagues before moving them to the travel and trying to
cut down on the number of travel teams they had
for going for the philosophy of quality over quantity.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Yeah, you know, the person we had on last week
talking to them about the expensities for travel teams and
it's amazing that parents are spending like fifteen thousand dollars
a year to have their kids involved in it.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
And then you.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Look at you know, you talked about before recreational sports
for kids and what them developing all these different skills
that are not just athletic skills, but you know, developmental
skills or whatever. And so you wonder, is that the
(09:43):
role of recreation departments now to try to say, hey,
we need to turn this around and focus on the kids.
The massive number of kids that they can't come out
anymore because the parents don't have the money and they're
just left there with nothing.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
To do to do to play sports.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Sure, so I think there's certainly a role for parks
and recreation departments to fill and being able to subsidize
some of the costs so that we can bring athletics
and programs to the youth without breaking the bank. That's
how we're going to become the most inclusive society is
by enabling all to be able to participate and play
(10:25):
in our programs.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
But I.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
Think that travel is very much a choice. I don't
think you have to I don't think you have to
participate and travel in order to get a good recreation
experience and be able to play against solid competition and
really refine and hone your skills. I think that we
can focus on building a good baseline recreation program where
(10:50):
the coaches are well versed and well trained in the
best practices of the sport and industry, so that we
can breed the best talent by building them up from
the fundamentals up and then from there if they get
older and they want to play travel ball, I mean,
high school ball is a natural segue.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
I mean it seems that with high school sports and whatnot,
a lot of kids are lost to high school teams
because they're playing on travel But you know, one of
the things Austin that I wrote the book in the
title of.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
This show is why Johnny H Sports Is.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
People wonder and say, well, why did you create this organization? Well,
it certainly wasn't about the problems maybe with travel ball
and whatnot.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
It was what you.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Might have seen in the introduction there about the National
Alliance for Youth Sports.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
What I saw were a lot of those.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Situations where you saw parents fighting in the stands. The
one one episode that you saw there with that father
with his kid, that is, if you saw that whole episode,
you would say, man, that is really ugly. That is
a character classic thing of child abuse. I mean, the
guy's wrapping his arm around the kid. People saying well,
(12:09):
how is he an actor, and no, he wasn't an actor.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
The funny part.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Was was filmed by ABCTV. They did a special called
Little League Baseball and whatnot, and it was him holding
had a curtain thinking that they couldn't see, but he,
for god, they had a microphone on him, and he
went on and on and jumped on.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
His poor kid throughout the whole game.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
But I'm just wondering, Austin, even in your early career,
and you know, being down in Key West and wherever,
have you ever seen situations like this?
Speaker 4 (12:44):
I know you have.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
Yeah, absolutely, it's unfortunate. I was fortunate not to see
it too many times in my career. But there were
a lot of issues both in the basketball leagues and
in the baseball leagues. A lot of what was happening
in basketball were parents trying to coach their kids from
(13:08):
the stands, yelling at their kids, and then oftentimes we
would have to go up and talk to the parents,
ask them to calm down, give them a couple of warnings,
and then if they couldn't calm down. There were a
few occasions where we had to score the parent off,
and only one occasion where we had to get the police.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Involved.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
But I know there's a local entity in North Carolina
regionally that has a similar issue in their basketball leagues
and has a regular police presence just because of some
of the escalated situations that have occurred down there. They
have to have that presence in order to keep everyone safe.
(13:46):
And obviously that's a bad example for the kids if
parents are fighting each other in the stands over a
recreation game that's just supposed to be fun and developmental nature.
And then you have the other side of it where
they're yelling at their kids and have to be escorted
out because they can't control themselves because they get angry
at either their kid for not performing up to the
(14:07):
stand they hold them to, or they get angry at
the coach because the coaches in coaching well enough in
their opinion.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Doesn't that bother you as a recreation professional to see
all that happen.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
I'll give you an example.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
You know, I often compare the fact that recreation professionals
are equally as important as classroom teachers. That's why we
say that sports are the outdoor classroom.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
You know, supposing you have a.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Parent come in to a classroom to watch a spelling
be and the kid was seven years old and misspelled
whatever word it was, and the parents stood up in
the back of the room and yelled and said, Jamie,
how could you be so dumb and stupid? How you
missed that word? I mean, what do you think the
(15:03):
school system would do that person.
Speaker 5 (15:08):
Yeah, I mean it's unfortunate. There are parents that like
to live vicariously through their children. So really, when their
child makes the mistake like missus a shot or missus
an assignment in basketball, then their parents gets upset because
they see themselves through their child's eyes, failing again or
(15:30):
falling short.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
So I think.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
That's a lot of it is being able to try
and set the standard with the parents, and we always
have everywhere I've gone, we've always had preseason meetings with
the parents to set the expectations, talk about a code
of conduct and trying to establish the standard of Hey,
this is a fun league. Let's keep it fun. No
(15:54):
one's winning the World Series out here, and no one's
winning the National Championship. It's just a rec league for
fun and development. And as long as the kids have
fun and they get a little bit better by the
end of the season, that's that's what we consider a success.
So I mean establishing that standard and getting the parents
to understand that. Some of them just don't want to
(16:17):
understand that, and that's that's a choice. But I think,
by and large, I think the I think that if
you're able to go in there and really set the
expectations of what is absolutely zero tolerance, I think that, uh,
that sets you up better for success and being able
to mitigate or avoid situations like that where the parents
(16:38):
yelling at a kid for a simple mistake.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Yeah, you know, you mentioned a little bit before about
parents and then live been sitting in the stands and
that's our kid out there, and they lose perspective of
this is just a game and whatnot, and we all
live vicariously through our kids.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Nobody can escape that. It just one way or the
other we do it.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
But this may be really putting you on the spot, Austin.
But let's just say down the road, now you become
the superintendent of recreation for whatever city, and now you
see what we've just been talking about, and you say,
you know what, this has been going on forever since
(17:23):
day one of parents losing perspective, being emotionally, psychologically and
even sometimes physically abusive to their kids in sports?
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Is that recreation superintendent, would.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
You do anything that has never been done in the
last forty years.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
I don't think necessarily you have to reinvent the wheel. So,
if I understand you correctly, I think that's more of
a cultural shift. I think that's more of changing our
policies and maybe some of our processes. I've been very
fortunate both of my previous stops in both Miami Lakes
and Marathon to see what will establish positive culture of
(18:09):
building a recreation program that's meant to be fun and developmental,
and I would follow those blueprints for the most part,
and trying to revamp that. I think that a lot
of that is what you're willing to let go and
not establishing a zero tolerance policy of parents' behavior like
(18:29):
that you have to, I think, not only have a
meeting with them, but I think it's also important to
have them sign a code of conduct where they have
to read and actually agree in order for their child
to participate in the program, to hold themselves to a
certain level of conduct or these are the consequences and
really lay that out. So I think that if I
(18:52):
were the superintendent and I came into a city with
an athletic culture like that. I would start take in
those steps before the season to ensure that we re
establish the culture of being a fun developmental league, because
something happened along the way where we lost our side
(19:13):
of that and just started to become extremely competitive. And
I feel like the more competitive you get, ironically, the
less competitive you are typically on the scoreboard, because you
push so many of the talented kids out because they
love the game. That's how they got to be that good.
It's about showing up day in and day out and
being able to practice. If they're not having fun, they're
(19:34):
not going to show up to practice.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
And if those parents that you just talked about that
sign a code of ethics and behavior and they didn't.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Be they didn't live up to it, what would you do?
I love you sure.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
I mean, you take the necessary progressive discipline measures. You
give them a warning, and then if they're not abiding
by the warning, then you have to ask them to leave.
They don't leave, then I mean that's when, unfortunately, you
sometimes have to get law enforcement involved, and that's an
absolute last resort, and then you can start talking about suspensions.
(20:14):
I know, in a flag football league I administered. Once
we had to levy a suspension to a coach that
got a little bit too heated and throw a ball
out of referee, Like, you can't do that. That's not acceptable.
So there are consequences. And when the coach tried to
dispute that, we showed him what he's signed, the paper
(20:37):
that he's signed, the Code of ethics. This is what
the stend you're held to, and these are the consequences
if you're not held to that. It was cut in
dry black and white and lost his dispute.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Yeah, well it sounds like you're taking action. That's great
to think that if.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Down the road you became the recreation superintendent wherever, that
you would be enforcing that.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Kind of thing. I mean, it has always bothered me.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I remember Austin with our kids were in elementary school
and I went over to try to get into the
school one day and they said you have to have
a pass, you have to sign in, And.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
I said, what's up for this? Said, well, we have
to protectives coming in here because we don't know who
you are and what not.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Well would you believe that that same school had a huge,
huge backyard where kids said recess, I mean three or
four acres and over in the corner. The outfield was
a backstop, and before the season they would have tryouts
for all these baseball teams players and that field would
(21:52):
be crowded with hundreds of kids. And I thought, look
at all these parent volunteers years out there with all
these kids. Now, how are they not different from the
people in the classroom teaching those kids. Why why are
they allowed out there without any credentials?
Speaker 4 (22:12):
We don't know who they are. And so my question
to you is do you really feel that.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
The recreation director is equal to the classroom teacher.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
To a certain extent.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Obviously, as a recreation director, you're more of a hands
off administrator, so you have the opportunity to set a
standard for your department. So I think that it's more
knt being a school principal than it is necessarily a coach.
But I do look at coaches as being essentially the
(22:51):
fun teachers. They spend a lot less time with kids
than school teacher does, because you're looking at probably spending
maximum of two hours a day, probably three or four
times a week with them, So you're spending a substantial
amount of time and it's a lot of a lot
of social time because they're typically out there with the
(23:12):
friends with the family watching and so it's it's certainly
a critical critical juncture in their experience and development as
a person.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
But I think that the.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
Making sure that policies are adhere to ensuring that we
establish the culture that we need to in order to
deter problems and have a flourishing league that continues to
grow every year. Because if you're a great league, you're
going to have a waiting list and continue to have
a waiting list every single year.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
You know, it's so great about heving you on this show.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
In the other recreation people, they are certifying sport administrators.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
What's that mean to you? Being a certified YOU sportedministrator.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
I feel like that means that you are held to
the gold standard of the industry. I think that UH
that means that you are somebody that UH uses best
practices to ensure that your league is operating at an
optimal standard and that you're able to have a fully
(24:26):
functioning league that UH that develops kids for fun, holds
coaches to UH standards, make sure that they're trained, their
background check, they're UH certified before they step, uh step
out on the field, so that it's not just you know,
Johnny Stranger coming out there just because he used to
(24:47):
play ball in high school and thinks he knows how
to coach. It's actually holding your league to a stand
where you're ensuring that the people are going out onto
the field have the right mindset, they're in agreement with
you philosophy of how to run the league, and they
actually know what they're talking about and are trained to
be able to handle different ages and maturity levels of players.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
It's marvelous, you know.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
And to think back that before the word cert if
I use sport administer, excuse me that you just described
what they were for the most part of my experience
over the years, and that was, Yeah, they were ballplayers,
and hey, I want to continue my athletic career, so
I think I'll be a recreation person. Then they get
(25:38):
into it and find out that's not what it's all about.
It's having to deal with all the things you talk about.
And I just think it's so encouraging.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
Austin that you know, this show will go out.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
To twelve five hundred people that are just like yourself,
recreation people around the country. So it's I'm encouraging to
hear your thoughts and your ideas and your forecast of
what it should be, you know, in the field of recreation,
because all of us have been there that have seen
it and experience the.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Good the bad.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
I'll finished telling you a positive story because I used
to be out all the time talking about the National
Alliance and when developing it, and I would tell stories
of different ugly stories over and over. And then after
one a guy came up to me and he said,
(26:36):
you know, it's not all bad being a coach. And
what he said, let me tell you a story. He said,
not long ago, I got invited to be the best
man at this guy's wedding. And I said, who is
(26:56):
this person? And see inviting me to be the best
man at his wedding. And the guy said, I played
baseball for you twenty two years ago, and you were
the greatest influence in my life at the most important time.
And I've never forgotten how you made me who I
(27:18):
am today. And that a great story, and that's the story.
That's the story, Austin. I think that all recreation people
would like to be able to, you know, to give
to these coaches that are out there to be able
to say, you know, it's not all about winning, It's
(27:38):
all about developing kids, making them the best possible people
that they can possibly be.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
I mean, you never understand fully the impact that you've
made in the ripple effect that that has until you
have an experience like that where a kid invites you
to their wedding and you you didn't necessarily remember them
as an individual, but they remembered you because you made
such a positive impression. You were an inspiration in their life.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Well, I want to thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
We've been talking today to Austin Tubbs from Raleigh in
North Carolina.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
I've been there many a time, and.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Austin, I want to thank you for such a great
job and keep doing the great job that you're doing
in recreation out there.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Thank you, Freed. I appreciate it, all right, and I
have a good weekend, all right, you as well.
Speaker 6 (28:36):
Why Johnny Hates Sports is a best selling book about
kids in sports. It chronicles why, at a very early age,
children are thrust into organized sports long before they have
the necessary skills to feel successful. Fathers and mothers are
asked to be their coach without having any training on
how to coach, and the leagues in which kids play
(29:00):
are governed by volunteers whose main focus becomes scoreboards, championships,
and all star games. Statistics show that close to seventy
percent of kids will have quit by the age of thirteen.
Most said it ceased to be fun and that's why
Johnny hates sports.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Well, there we go with another edition this Friday morning
at eleven, and I want to thank you for tuning
in and look forward to next Friday morning at eleven
at the same time, and we will have another special
guests from around the country.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
Have a good weekend.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
This program is sponsored by Sir Dirff Publishing in the
interest for better sports for kids, better kids for life.
The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are
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(00:20):
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
The National Alliance for Youth Sports was born out of
a desire to bring order to the world of organized
sports for children in America. While for the most part,
children have a great experience playing sports, far too often
parents and coaches lose perspective. Only gets you to night
because you let me down, coach all night you did,
(00:46):
I'll get you vice its croo debt. This program is
aimed at bringing some of America's best experts to talk
about what we can do to change the atmosphere of
win at all costs and parent poor behavior to one
that focuses on children having a positive learning experience through sports.
Here's our host, Fred Ang the founder of a national
(01:09):
Alliance for Youth Sport.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Hey, good morning everybody, and welcome to I think this
is a sixteenth edition of Why Johnny eight Sports, and
we're happy this morning to have somebody from a little
bit north of us here in Florida, Austin.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Tub's good morning, Austin, Good morning, Fred.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Hey.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
You know, most people.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Ride by parks and recreation d see signs this park here,
that park there, and they never really understand. I think,
with we people that have been in the recreation field,
what that's all about. Can you take you a minute
and just explain to the viewers what it's all about.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
Pres I mean, parks and recreation is I think a
very unique field because it's different for everybody. A lot
of people only experience the recreation programming or summer camp
aspect of parks and recreations. Some only experienced athletics side
of it. Some experience exclusively the national parks and the
state parks, which are more passive recreation experiences where you
(02:16):
either camp or you just explore the trails. So my
position includes a little bit of all of that, because
at my park, I have some nature trails, I have
some organized recreation programming, And then in a couple of
weeks from now, I'm opening up a new park in
downtown Raleigh where it's gonna be a play area, but
(02:40):
it's also gonna combine passive play space in order to
be very intergenerational, to be able to cater to both
the old and the young and young at heart. And
I think that's what Parkers and recreation is all about,
just a lot of mental and physical stimulation and health.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Were you an athlete or the reason you got into
to recreation Was it because you played sports sometime in
your life.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
Yeah, it's actually funny. I used to play competitive junior
tennis and my goal was to become a recreation director
of a private tennis resort. And when I was in school,
I was attending Florida International University in Miami. I was
studying for my bachelor's and Recreation Sports Management. I was
(03:34):
seeing in about public sector budgeting class and thought, I'm
never going to need to use this because I'm going
to work in a private sector my entire career. So
it just so happened that after I graduated college, my
parents bought a house down in Florida, Keys and I
moved down there. Got my first job in parks recreation,
and I fell in love with the field because of
(03:54):
the amount of variety. I could both be a coach,
I could be an umpire, I could be a referee,
to be an administrator of sports. So I felt like
I could make a positive impact and still pursue my
passions of parks and recreation.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Yeah, that's pretty interesting. You know, you mentioned me a
new facility there in Raleigh, and I'm thinking about the
whole question that we've been dealing with for the last
couple people like yourselves talking about travel ball and the
travel ball I've seen, and I'm wondering what you have
(04:33):
seen as you're beginning to build these new facilities, because
before what would happen is, you know, recreation baseball or
whatever particular sport would be out there parents who would
register a field and get a permit. And now you
see a lot of the travel ball situations that are
(04:53):
at me.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
What have you seen now in Raleigh?
Speaker 5 (04:57):
So in roller there's always an opportunity to cost you're
opening up a new park. So with this park, it
used to be a dog park and an athletics space.
There used to be a couple of baseball fields over here,
but we renovated them to turn them into a unique
play space. And I think that I think that we
(05:17):
were just trying to find our identity, so we decided
to create a more inclusive environment because athletics can sometimes
be seen as a little bit niche So I think
that we've really tried to focus on putting all of
our athletics over to our more athletic focused parks with
(05:38):
actual programming and ability to run our proper rec leagues
and tournaments.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
But you would said to me at one point in time,
I remember about travel teams. You dealt with a parent
one time that talked about having their kid in travel ball,
and it was an old enough you thought about that story.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Yeah, sure.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
So that was during my time with the Town of
Miami Lakes as the parks and Athletics manager. There was
an adamant parent that had petitioned to the Optimist Club
in Miami Lakes to put his son on the travel team,
even though his son.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Was five years old.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
So I spoke with the administrators of the Optimus Club
and they said that they don't do travel ball at
that age because it doesn't promote growth and it doesn't
inspire I love the sport because it's just too much,
too soon for the kids. So I talked to the
(06:43):
parent and explained to him that the overarching philosophy of
this league was for recreation and development of talent and
still in the passion in the kids, so they would
learn to have fun and fall in love with the
sport first skills baseline of competencies before they enter the
(07:04):
more competitive score watching aspect of youth.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Sports spoken like a real rec professional thereof.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
And I love it. I think it's great.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
But you know, across the country we've seen you know,
travel teams kind of taking over facilities. I mean here,
I live in West Palm Beach and I live right
across the street from seeing a baseball field that is
totally empty. Nobody comes over like they used to register,
(07:37):
you know, to use those fields in former league and
playing kids playing baseball.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
And you see baseball participation now across the country keeps
going down and down.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
And I wonder, you know, even though that you're not
directly involved now with leagues and whatnot, what is the
atmosphere there with the people, what do they you that
are in charge of those facilities.
Speaker 5 (08:04):
Yeah, so I think it's one of those things where
one hand washes the other. So I know in Miami
League's lakes, we started to see a decline not only
in numbers for participation, but we also started to see
a decline in talent because we were trying to push
kids up to the travel teams too soon, because we
kept one to expand our travel league program, and that
(08:28):
created some uncompetitive teams. So instead of just fielding one
really good team, we would field two teams that were
both pretty mediocre and would end up getting bounced in
the first or second round of a travel tournament. So
I think that the Optimist Club was trying to focus
more on developing talent in the recreation the more recreational
(08:52):
leagues before moving them to the travel and trying to
cut down on the number of travel teams they had
for going for the philosophy of quality over quantity.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Yeah, you know, the person we had on last week
talking to them about the expensities for travel teams and
it's amazing that parents are spending like fifteen thousand dollars
a year to have their kids involved in it.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
And then you.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Look at you know, you talked about before recreational sports
for kids and what them developing all these different skills
that are not just athletic skills, but you know, developmental
skills or whatever. And so you wonder, is that the
(09:43):
role of recreation departments now to try to say, hey,
we need to turn this around and focus on the kids.
The massive number of kids that they can't come out
anymore because the parents don't have the money and they're
just left there with nothing.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
To do to do to play sports.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Sure, so I think there's certainly a role for parks
and recreation departments to fill and being able to subsidize
some of the costs so that we can bring athletics
and programs to the youth without breaking the bank. That's
how we're going to become the most inclusive society is
by enabling all to be able to participate and play
(10:25):
in our programs.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
But I.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
Think that travel is very much a choice. I don't
think you have to I don't think you have to
participate and travel in order to get a good recreation
experience and be able to play against solid competition and
really refine and hone your skills. I think that we
can focus on building a good baseline recreation program where
(10:50):
the coaches are well versed and well trained in the
best practices of the sport and industry, so that we
can breed the best talent by building them up from
the fundamentals up and then from there if they get
older and they want to play travel ball, I mean,
high school ball is a natural segue.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
I mean it seems that with high school sports and whatnot,
a lot of kids are lost to high school teams
because they're playing on travel But you know, one of
the things Austin that I wrote the book in the
title of.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
This show is why Johnny H Sports Is.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
People wonder and say, well, why did you create this organization? Well,
it certainly wasn't about the problems maybe with travel ball
and whatnot.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
It was what you.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Might have seen in the introduction there about the National
Alliance for Youth Sports.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
What I saw were a lot of those.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Situations where you saw parents fighting in the stands. The
one one episode that you saw there with that father
with his kid, that is, if you saw that whole episode,
you would say, man, that is really ugly. That is
a character classic thing of child abuse. I mean, the
guy's wrapping his arm around the kid. People saying well,
(12:09):
how is he an actor, and no, he wasn't an actor.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
The funny part.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Was was filmed by ABCTV. They did a special called
Little League Baseball and whatnot, and it was him holding
had a curtain thinking that they couldn't see, but he,
for god, they had a microphone on him, and he
went on and on and jumped on.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
His poor kid throughout the whole game.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
But I'm just wondering, Austin, even in your early career,
and you know, being down in Key West and wherever,
have you ever seen situations like this?
Speaker 4 (12:44):
I know you have.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
Yeah, absolutely, it's unfortunate. I was fortunate not to see
it too many times in my career. But there were
a lot of issues both in the basketball leagues and
in the baseball leagues. A lot of what was happening
in basketball were parents trying to coach their kids from
(13:08):
the stands, yelling at their kids, and then oftentimes we
would have to go up and talk to the parents,
ask them to calm down, give them a couple of warnings,
and then if they couldn't calm down. There were a
few occasions where we had to score the parent off,
and only one occasion where we had to get the police.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Involved.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
But I know there's a local entity in North Carolina
regionally that has a similar issue in their basketball leagues
and has a regular police presence just because of some
of the escalated situations that have occurred down there. They
have to have that presence in order to keep everyone safe.
(13:46):
And obviously that's a bad example for the kids if
parents are fighting each other in the stands over a
recreation game that's just supposed to be fun and developmental nature.
And then you have the other side of it where
they're yelling at their kids and have to be escorted
out because they can't control themselves because they get angry
at either their kid for not performing up to the
(14:07):
stand they hold them to, or they get angry at
the coach because the coaches in coaching well enough in
their opinion.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Doesn't that bother you as a recreation professional to see
all that happen.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
I'll give you an example.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
You know, I often compare the fact that recreation professionals
are equally as important as classroom teachers. That's why we
say that sports are the outdoor classroom.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
You know, supposing you have a.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Parent come in to a classroom to watch a spelling
be and the kid was seven years old and misspelled
whatever word it was, and the parents stood up in
the back of the room and yelled and said, Jamie,
how could you be so dumb and stupid? How you
missed that word? I mean, what do you think the
(15:03):
school system would do that person.
Speaker 5 (15:08):
Yeah, I mean it's unfortunate. There are parents that like
to live vicariously through their children. So really, when their
child makes the mistake like missus a shot or missus
an assignment in basketball, then their parents gets upset because
they see themselves through their child's eyes, failing again or
(15:30):
falling short.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
So I think.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
That's a lot of it is being able to try
and set the standard with the parents, and we always
have everywhere I've gone, we've always had preseason meetings with
the parents to set the expectations, talk about a code
of conduct and trying to establish the standard of Hey,
this is a fun league. Let's keep it fun. No
(15:54):
one's winning the World Series out here, and no one's
winning the National Championship. It's just a rec league for
fun and development. And as long as the kids have
fun and they get a little bit better by the
end of the season, that's that's what we consider a success.
So I mean establishing that standard and getting the parents
to understand that. Some of them just don't want to
(16:17):
understand that, and that's that's a choice. But I think,
by and large, I think the I think that if
you're able to go in there and really set the
expectations of what is absolutely zero tolerance, I think that, uh,
that sets you up better for success and being able
to mitigate or avoid situations like that where the parents
(16:38):
yelling at a kid for a simple mistake.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Yeah, you know, you mentioned a little bit before about
parents and then live been sitting in the stands and
that's our kid out there, and they lose perspective of
this is just a game and whatnot, and we all
live vicariously through our kids.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Nobody can escape that. It just one way or the
other we do it.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
But this may be really putting you on the spot, Austin.
But let's just say down the road, now you become
the superintendent of recreation for whatever city, and now you
see what we've just been talking about, and you say,
you know what, this has been going on forever since
(17:23):
day one of parents losing perspective, being emotionally, psychologically and
even sometimes physically abusive to their kids in sports?
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Is that recreation superintendent, would.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
You do anything that has never been done in the
last forty years.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
I don't think necessarily you have to reinvent the wheel. So,
if I understand you correctly, I think that's more of
a cultural shift. I think that's more of changing our
policies and maybe some of our processes. I've been very
fortunate both of my previous stops in both Miami Lakes
and Marathon to see what will establish positive culture of
(18:09):
building a recreation program that's meant to be fun and developmental,
and I would follow those blueprints for the most part,
and trying to revamp that. I think that a lot
of that is what you're willing to let go and
not establishing a zero tolerance policy of parents' behavior like
(18:29):
that you have to, I think, not only have a
meeting with them, but I think it's also important to
have them sign a code of conduct where they have
to read and actually agree in order for their child
to participate in the program, to hold themselves to a
certain level of conduct or these are the consequences and
really lay that out. So I think that if I
(18:52):
were the superintendent and I came into a city with
an athletic culture like that. I would start take in
those steps before the season to ensure that we re
establish the culture of being a fun developmental league, because
something happened along the way where we lost our side
(19:13):
of that and just started to become extremely competitive. And
I feel like the more competitive you get, ironically, the
less competitive you are typically on the scoreboard, because you
push so many of the talented kids out because they
love the game. That's how they got to be that good.
It's about showing up day in and day out and
being able to practice. If they're not having fun, they're
(19:34):
not going to show up to practice.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
And if those parents that you just talked about that
sign a code of ethics and behavior and they didn't.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Be they didn't live up to it, what would you do?
I love you sure.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
I mean, you take the necessary progressive discipline measures. You
give them a warning, and then if they're not abiding
by the warning, then you have to ask them to leave.
They don't leave, then I mean that's when, unfortunately, you
sometimes have to get law enforcement involved, and that's an
absolute last resort, and then you can start talking about suspensions.
(20:14):
I know, in a flag football league I administered. Once
we had to levy a suspension to a coach that
got a little bit too heated and throw a ball
out of referee, Like, you can't do that. That's not acceptable.
So there are consequences. And when the coach tried to
dispute that, we showed him what he's signed, the paper
(20:37):
that he's signed, the Code of ethics. This is what
the stend you're held to, and these are the consequences
if you're not held to that. It was cut in
dry black and white and lost his dispute.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Yeah, well it sounds like you're taking action. That's great
to think that if.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Down the road you became the recreation superintendent wherever, that
you would be enforcing that.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Kind of thing. I mean, it has always bothered me.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I remember Austin with our kids were in elementary school
and I went over to try to get into the
school one day and they said you have to have
a pass, you have to sign in, And.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
I said, what's up for this? Said, well, we have
to protectives coming in here because we don't know who
you are and what not.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Well would you believe that that same school had a huge,
huge backyard where kids said recess, I mean three or
four acres and over in the corner. The outfield was
a backstop, and before the season they would have tryouts
for all these baseball teams players and that field would
(21:52):
be crowded with hundreds of kids. And I thought, look
at all these parent volunteers years out there with all
these kids. Now, how are they not different from the
people in the classroom teaching those kids. Why why are
they allowed out there without any credentials?
Speaker 4 (22:12):
We don't know who they are. And so my question
to you is do you really feel that.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
The recreation director is equal to the classroom teacher.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
To a certain extent.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Obviously, as a recreation director, you're more of a hands
off administrator, so you have the opportunity to set a
standard for your department. So I think that it's more
knt being a school principal than it is necessarily a coach.
But I do look at coaches as being essentially the
(22:51):
fun teachers. They spend a lot less time with kids
than school teacher does, because you're looking at probably spending
maximum of two hours a day, probably three or four
times a week with them, So you're spending a substantial
amount of time and it's a lot of a lot
of social time because they're typically out there with the
(23:12):
friends with the family watching and so it's it's certainly
a critical critical juncture in their experience and development as
a person.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
But I think that the.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
Making sure that policies are adhere to ensuring that we
establish the culture that we need to in order to
deter problems and have a flourishing league that continues to
grow every year. Because if you're a great league, you're
going to have a waiting list and continue to have
a waiting list every single year.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
You know, it's so great about heving you on this show.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
In the other recreation people, they are certifying sport administrators.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
What's that mean to you? Being a certified YOU sportedministrator.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
I feel like that means that you are held to
the gold standard of the industry. I think that UH
that means that you are somebody that UH uses best
practices to ensure that your league is operating at an
optimal standard and that you're able to have a fully
(24:26):
functioning league that UH that develops kids for fun, holds
coaches to UH standards, make sure that they're trained, their
background check, they're UH certified before they step, uh step
out on the field, so that it's not just you know,
Johnny Stranger coming out there just because he used to
(24:47):
play ball in high school and thinks he knows how
to coach. It's actually holding your league to a stand
where you're ensuring that the people are going out onto
the field have the right mindset, they're in agreement with
you philosophy of how to run the league, and they
actually know what they're talking about and are trained to
be able to handle different ages and maturity levels of players.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
It's marvelous, you know.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
And to think back that before the word cert if
I use sport administer, excuse me that you just described
what they were for the most part of my experience
over the years, and that was, Yeah, they were ballplayers,
and hey, I want to continue my athletic career, so
I think I'll be a recreation person. Then they get
(25:38):
into it and find out that's not what it's all about.
It's having to deal with all the things you talk about.
And I just think it's so encouraging.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
Austin that you know, this show will go out.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
To twelve five hundred people that are just like yourself,
recreation people around the country. So it's I'm encouraging to
hear your thoughts and your ideas and your forecast of
what it should be, you know, in the field of recreation,
because all of us have been there that have seen
it and experience the.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Good the bad.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
I'll finished telling you a positive story because I used
to be out all the time talking about the National
Alliance and when developing it, and I would tell stories
of different ugly stories over and over. And then after
one a guy came up to me and he said,
(26:36):
you know, it's not all bad being a coach. And
what he said, let me tell you a story. He said,
not long ago, I got invited to be the best
man at this guy's wedding. And I said, who is
(26:56):
this person? And see inviting me to be the best
man at his wedding. And the guy said, I played
baseball for you twenty two years ago, and you were
the greatest influence in my life at the most important time.
And I've never forgotten how you made me who I
(27:18):
am today. And that a great story, and that's the story.
That's the story, Austin. I think that all recreation people
would like to be able to, you know, to give
to these coaches that are out there to be able
to say, you know, it's not all about winning, It's
(27:38):
all about developing kids, making them the best possible people
that they can possibly be.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
I mean, you never understand fully the impact that you've
made in the ripple effect that that has until you
have an experience like that where a kid invites you
to their wedding and you you didn't necessarily remember them
as an individual, but they remembered you because you made
such a positive impression. You were an inspiration in their life.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Well, I want to thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
We've been talking today to Austin Tubbs from Raleigh in
North Carolina.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
I've been there many a time, and.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Austin, I want to thank you for such a great
job and keep doing the great job that you're doing
in recreation out there.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Thank you, Freed. I appreciate it, all right, and I
have a good weekend, all right, you as well.
Speaker 6 (28:36):
Why Johnny Hates Sports is a best selling book about
kids in sports. It chronicles why, at a very early age,
children are thrust into organized sports long before they have
the necessary skills to feel successful. Fathers and mothers are
asked to be their coach without having any training on
how to coach, and the leagues in which kids play
(29:00):
are governed by volunteers whose main focus becomes scoreboards, championships,
and all star games. Statistics show that close to seventy
percent of kids will have quit by the age of thirteen.
Most said it ceased to be fun and that's why
Johnny hates sports.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Well, there we go with another edition this Friday morning
at eleven, and I want to thank you for tuning
in and look forward to next Friday morning at eleven
at the same time, and we will have another special
guests from around the country.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
Have a good weekend.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
This program is sponsored by Sir Dirff Publishing in the
interest for better sports for kids, better kids for life.
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