May 16, 2025 • 29 mins
The travel team phenomena has caused local leagues to disband for lack of facilities
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Why Johnny Hates Sports is broadcast live Fridays at 11AM ET on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Why Johnny Hates Sports is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are
solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not
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make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
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Radio or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments
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(00:20):
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
The National Alliance for Youth Sports was born out of
a desire to bring order to the world of organized
sports for children in America. While for the most part,
children have a great experience playing sports, far too often
parents and coaches lose perspective.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I'm gonna get you to night because you let me
down covid all night you did, I'll get you by
its cravodet.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
This program is aimed at bringing some of America's best
experts to talk about what we can do to change
the atmosphere of win at all costs and behavior to
one that focuses on children having a positive learning experience
through sports. Here's our host Fred Ang, the founder of
the National Alliance for Youth Sports.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
And good morning everybody, and welcome to I think this
is a fifteenth edition of Why Johnny h Sports. And
you ever heard that expression, you know from some of
those shows called the man on the street. Well today
that's what we've got. A man on the street. Joel Adobie.
He and I played golf together and we were talking
(01:34):
one day about you know, travel teams, and I said, Joe,
you ought to be on our show, So I let
M introduce Joel.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
So good morning Joel, Good morning.
Speaker 6 (01:45):
Fred, Thank you so much for having me on. It's
great to see you.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Yeah. Hey, you know, one of the things I wanted
to show you that we did is a little bit
of a video about travel team. So we get our
producer here, want to show our little clip on it,
so big check this right.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
It all started over seventy years ago. Kids played for
fun in their neighborhood. Then things changed. Recreation departments were
created across America to provide fields for organized sports programs
organized by parents. Millions of children joined Little League kinds
(02:30):
of programs for all sports. Little League sports became a
household word, and then came travel teams, self described professional
coaches began offering opportunities for kids to join elite teams
for travel around the country to play in tournaments. According
(02:50):
to many recreation leaders, travel teams are distorting recreational ball
by siphoning talent, increasing financial and time burdens, and shifting
focus from community fun to elite competition.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
So there you have a Joe, you know, and obviously
from our conversation, you know, after playing golf at day,
you know, we talked a little bit about your experience
of you know, having kids in travel teams. So give
us a kind of a brief description of what happened
to you with your.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
Kids in travel. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (03:24):
So I've got quite a bit of experience in the
travel industry as well as the rec industry. I grew
up playing soccer from a very young age, both WREC
and of course, just like your video discusses, we moved
right into travel at a certain age, and you know,
the time commitments changed and the pricing changed and whatnot
(03:45):
when I was younger. Fortunately, back then, you know, it
was still very community based, like you talked about. So
travel teams back you know, twenty five years ago or
thirty years ago were still very community based and teams
stayed together for years, you know, from maybe the age
of twelve until sixteen, seventeen eighteen, and then off we went.
(04:07):
Now that I'm an adult and you know, either coaching
or running a program or having my own children in
both rec and travel programs, the difference is just staggering.
It's just an amazing change from that community base to
kind of, you know, a race to end up on
(04:28):
the best team or the right team. Costs of exploded
travel and time commitments are you know, to say there
over the top would be a I think that would
do a disservice to that statement. It's just it's just
become a tremendous burden for families, I think. And you know,
(04:53):
what we found too, and I think we'll probably touch
on this a bit, is the expectations not only for
the kids players, but also.
Speaker 6 (05:02):
From the parents have become a little bit over the top.
Speaker 7 (05:06):
And so anyway, it's it's a lot different environment than
than what we've seen over the last you know, twenty
twenty years prior.
Speaker 5 (05:14):
Okay, so you signed your kids up, so all of
a sudden, what.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Happened at that point in time when all of a
sudden you said, well, we got to sign our kids.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
Up and now they're going to be in travel ball.
So what happened?
Speaker 7 (05:29):
Yeah, so when when we started our oldest who is
now twenty one, she started playing club soccer travel soccer
around let's say twelve, maybe eleven, maybe ten. I wish
I could tell you exactly, but it was very young.
And you know at that time, as a former soccer player,
(05:51):
I tried to help the coach and you know, give
some of my expertise that quickly turned into a trem
and is time commitment for me now as a club coach,
you know, not only being available an hour before every
game and during the three times a week minimum practices
(06:12):
for an hour and a half, but also you know
traveling with her to games that many times were several
hours away. And this is for league games.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
You know, tournaments are a different issue.
Speaker 7 (06:25):
I think when people sign up to play club soccer
or any other club sport, they recognize that their weekends
are gone and they may be traveling, you know, across
the country or they may be traveling three to four
hours away. Sometimes it's a plane, sometimes it's a car.
But even the league games nowadays are several hours away,
so the commitment is tremendous. You know, one or two
(06:49):
games a weekend, so your entire weekend is gobbled up.
We put our second daughter into travel, who's two years younger,
and so now my wife is.
Speaker 6 (06:57):
Handling one, I'm handling the other. So you know, that
impacts us.
Speaker 7 (07:00):
And then we have another child who's a couple of
years younger, our son, and so he's getting kind of
carted around all these sporting events also, and then you know,
we enter him into it and so good night.
Speaker 6 (07:12):
You know, it's just it's just constant.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
So okay, So, so you mentioned that you had two
daughters and now a son, and you use the word joel,
we put them in that, and it raises a question
in my mind with many parents and whatnot, did they
ever ask you if they could play or did you
put them in there?
Speaker 7 (07:36):
Yeah, that's a that's a great question. So there's almost
this natural matriculation that's occurring. And your video touched on that.
Where the community based recreational leagues, which were when I
was younger enough, you know, they were high level. All
the kids that were great players in each sport were
(07:59):
involved in and those community based programs and it was
a it was a great they were great. It feels
like that has changed a bit where what we're finding
now is, you know, the better players or not even
the better players, I would say even you know, any
player who would be willing to pay the three to
(08:20):
five thousand dollars a year to join a travel program,
are you know, if they're staying behind in the rec programs,
they aren't finding the challenge, and they're finding that a
lot of their friends have also left that program.
Speaker 6 (08:32):
So it's just.
Speaker 7 (08:34):
It's becoming kind of a natural matriculation. To answer your question,
did we ask We had conversations about it. There was,
it was It was a very quick conversation where it
was the obvious next step for them because they were
decent players, so, you know, not much conversation went on.
Now we have over time yearly made sure that they
want the commitment level that you know, travel or club
(08:57):
soccer entails because it's expensive, you know, so we want
to make sure that they're on board and that they're
committed to the games and practices and whatnot, and that
they really want to continue down this road. And we
both of our daughters eventually, I think it was junior year,
did say, you know what, I'm done.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
I'm not.
Speaker 7 (09:15):
I don't see myself going forward with this in college,
so I don't want the commitment anymore. So at that age,
I'm mature enough to make that decision on their own.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Yeah, you know, it's funny you mentioned you said something
about five thousand dollars, and this is a four part
series where we have people like yourself, as I jokingly
call the man on the street to talk about it,
that isn't directly involved as.
Speaker 5 (09:40):
A recreation professional.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
But the last person we had on I said, yeah,
you know, parents spend five thousand dollars a year ago.
And she said, yeah, if they're lucky, if that's all
they have to pay five thousand. She said, most of the
people up here in Ohio, they get their kids involved
and they end up spending about fifteen thousand dollars to
(10:04):
go out there, which is, like you say, it's kind
of almost crazy to have that amount of money. But
here's another question I want to ask, is you know
there has to be some kind of pressure. I mean,
when you got your kids involved, like in playing Little league,
whatever sport, it was usually that's pressure from you know,
(10:26):
your friends Alan Mary's kid Tommy or Janet or six
years old?
Speaker 5 (10:34):
Are they going to play little league baseball or softball?
Speaker 4 (10:37):
And you know you're looking around and saying, well, I
guess so, so back to the did you did they
ask you? Did you put them? And then you just
sign them up to play little league baseball or softball
or whatever sport? And is that pressure the same kind
of pressure that you feel now that your kid is
(10:58):
playing and now they're going into travel ball because you
know our neighbors down the street their kids are playing
travel ball.
Speaker 6 (11:08):
Yeah, so two things there, Fred.
Speaker 7 (11:11):
First, you know, just to go back one step your
your discussion with the previous guest about the cost associated
that five grand is just to play. You know, it's
the travel expenses and the hotels, and you know that
dollar commitment is absolutely doubles it and to your guest point,
(11:32):
maybe triples it.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
I choose not to pay a lot of attention to.
Speaker 7 (11:37):
That part because I think that would help, that would
make me leave the leave it entirely. But yeah, it's
it's definitely ten or fifteen once you're all in for
a twelve month season, which is crazy as far as
pressure is concerned.
Speaker 6 (11:51):
You know, once I agree with you, it's definitely you know,
what your neighbors are doing, what the other kids are doing.
There is pressure.
Speaker 7 (11:58):
So if your child, you know is is a soccer
player or a baseball player and they're playing rec and
all the kids start to move on and hey, this
team's better.
Speaker 6 (12:09):
It's you know, they're doing more and there's potential for college.
Speaker 7 (12:13):
You know, it starts at such a young age where
folks start to think, well, you know, if I don't
put Johnny into the next level, A, he's not going
to have his friends around him. So there's that pressure.
But B, I'm losing a chance to have his college
paid for. And so that pressure exists. And then once
they're in, it's over. You know, once they're in. Tryouts
(12:37):
happen once a year. There earlier and earlier every year.
They used to be April and May. Now there some
places are March and April while you're still in season
for soccer.
Speaker 6 (12:46):
But that pressure then.
Speaker 7 (12:47):
Exists to make the same team, and you know, so
then the pressure gets pushed over to the kids and
they start to feel it, and you can see the
anxiety build as tryalts get closer and closer.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
So I think to your point.
Speaker 7 (12:59):
There's a lot of pressure points in travel or club
sports nowadays.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Yeah, wait a minute, you said something, Joel that triggered
for me. You said something about that they would lose
her opportunity for a scholarship, and this is another thing
that becomes such a fallacy of kids being on travel teams.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
But one of the funny things not.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Funny, I guess, but one of the comments that the
previous person, the rec professional said to me is about
the scholarship thing. And she said, you know that a
lot of the parents believe that, you know, hey, this
is the more reason that we're spending this kind of money,
you know, five, ten, fifteen thousand dollars is because we
(13:50):
want our kids to get a scholarship, and that the
odds of that happening with all these kids playing. Then
she said, I said to the parents, you know what
if they didn't play a trivel ball and you saved
fifteen thousand dollars a year, how about all that money
going to going to college, you know, without being a scholarship.
(14:14):
So you're you're spending money for travel teams that you
could be spending for the kids college.
Speaker 7 (14:21):
Yeah, I mean, you hit it on the head one
hundred percent, So you know, don't spend it, play reck
save the money. College is paid for, there's no doubt
about that. But the road to college sports is littered
with all these kids whose parents and I think it's
a parent issue. I don't think it's a player issue.
Whose parents have convinced themselves and their kids that, you know,
(14:47):
if they just work hard enough and they're great at
the sport, that they're going to get money to play
in school. And you know, not only is that money
wasted because it offsets the scholarship that they get. But
you know, I don't know the exact percentages, but they're
very low. You know, I've been in the soccer world
for literally my whole life, and the amount of kids
(15:09):
that I've seen get scholarships is so small. I mean
it's literally you can count it on one hand. And
many of those scholarships are you know, a couple thousand
dollars to go play the school. So that's the other
issue is what defines a scholarship. If I'm going to
a eighty thousand dollars a year school and I'm getting
(15:30):
thirty thousand dollars, I'm still paying fifty grand a year
to go to that school, which I may or may
not want to afford if I'm going to a smaller
or excuse me, a more or less expensive state school,
let's say twenty eight or thirty grand a year, and
I'm getting two. You know, what have I really accomplished
for getting two thousand dollars a year, other than you know,
getting a chance to play on that team where maybe
I might have even been able to walk on at
(15:52):
that point. So, you know, there's a lot of there's
a lot of problems in that argument, but it's just
it's a constant cont that we hear from parents.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Yeah, you mentioned that being a constant thing, and you wonder,
you know, here, as a parent, you're saying, Okay, it's
time for sports for my kids, and then you wonder
how many of those kids are saying, I want to
please my mom and dad. I want to say, you know,
(16:24):
they're back to my question, did you ask them or
put them?
Speaker 5 (16:27):
But when you kind of.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Put them into these sports situations, you wonder how many
of them are saying, I'm just doing this so I
don't upset them. They really want me out there playing.
They see how much I you know, I enjoy it,
they think, but I don't really enjoy it. And then
you find out after let's say four years of going
(16:55):
through this pain and you get it done, and you
say them, was it worth it? They said, well, you know,
I'd rather gone over to the lake to go swimming
with my other friends.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (17:08):
Yeah, I mean, I can share. I'll share a quick
personal story with you about one of our kids. She
she she's a good soccer player, ended up playing on
a local what's called e CNL team for soccer, which
is a national soccer league. It's it's, you know, one
of the top soccer leagues in the country. A lot
of college scouts, so on and so forth. And as
(17:30):
she got a little bit older in the sport, you know,
she was not necessarily keeping up with the rest of
the kids. Decent player, but she was, you know, outmatched
by some of the other kids on the field. Got
frustrated with the coach and one day, you know, he
didn't play her. He put her in, pulled her out
real quick, and I had been frustrated with him anyway.
I had gone to the car once she was out
of the game, and she came to the car after
(17:51):
the game, upset and I looked at her and I said,
I want you to know it's okay with me if
you quit.
Speaker 6 (17:57):
She quit the next day. So to your point, you know, at.
Speaker 7 (18:01):
That stage, she knew, you know, where she was on
the team, and she was at that point playing for
her parents, you know, to keep them happy. And once
she was relieved of that, she got over it pretty quickly,
and you know, she started living her best life again.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
So anyway, it happens a lot, and she.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Went on and started playing the piano or day.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
That's right.
Speaker 7 (18:24):
Well, you know, Fred, what's important and I think what's
missed in all of this with a lot of these kids.
We would talk to our kids a lot about what
scholarships aren't being discussed, you know, and the ones that
aren't being discussed as much are the academic scholarships. And
so you know, we my wife and I were both
college athletes, and we talked to them about the probabilities
of not only getting a scholarship, but actually playing in college,
(18:49):
and how that may take away from college experience. You
might not play a lot anyway, so on and so forth.
So we talked to them about academic scholarships, and they
were both so far to kids in college able to
get small all academic scholarships rather than focus so much
on getting the soccer scholarships. So yeah, I mean they
had fun in school and they got good grades. They
played soccer after that as kind of fun for high
(19:11):
school and it was more enjoyable for them.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Yeah, you brought back a little bit of memory for me.
You're talking about, you know, being a college athlete, and
it brings me the word of burnout. I went through
the same thing myself. I was a wrestler in high
school and the school I went to, they gave you
a choice that you had to participate in sports throughout
(19:38):
the year, so you could go to one sport or
the other, or you could stay in the same sport.
And of course, our wrestling coach said, I'll just sign
up for fall wrestling, winter wrestling, sprame or wrestling, and
that's all I ever did, and four years in a row,
(19:59):
and then I ended up going to college. And the
first year of college, I said, now this is like
a job.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
I mean, this is like work.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Before it was kind of fun and you know, you're
with your friends and enjoying tournaments and everything, but.
Speaker 5 (20:18):
Then you get the thing to call burnout.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
I mean, I just got burned out and I said,
I'm tired of having my face shoved down in the
map and somebody trying to kill me. So I wonder,
you know what, when you go back and you look
at the years that you're doing it, and I'm guessing
that maybe you're not still doing it.
Speaker 5 (20:39):
Maybe you are, but it doesn't matter.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
But if you look around and you see a lot
of those kids, they go through burnout. I mean specialization
with you know the parents. No, you don't want to
play anything else, Mary, You're just going to What you
want to do is you're going to stay and specialize.
And the reason that you going to do that is
because if you don't, somebody's going to get better than you.
(21:05):
So get out there and just practice every day all
year round.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
I'm sure you've seen.
Speaker 7 (21:11):
That, absolutely, And it's a you know, we we read
study after study after study that talks about the benefits
of being a multi sport athlete if you're an athlete,
and all we hear from the club coaches is they
want you to play their sport and their sport alone
and to the degree.
Speaker 6 (21:31):
And we do deal with this. Still.
Speaker 7 (21:33):
We have one who's a sophomore in high school, and
we deal with the coaches, you know, penalizing the players
if they're a little bit late because maybe they were
at a basketball practice, even though you know from the
standpoint that I'm looking at it as a non coach,
as a parent, I.
Speaker 6 (21:50):
Actually think that those players should be rewarded.
Speaker 7 (21:53):
You know, if a fifteen or sixteen year old boy
is going to basketball practice after school or high school.
Speaker 6 (22:01):
And then.
Speaker 7 (22:03):
Getting some food, resting a little bit and going to
practice soccer practice, or walking out of that building and
going directly to soccer practice, to me, that's showing someone
who's dedicated to their sport, to all of their sports,
and to their well being and managing their time and
so on and so forth. But instead, what we're finding
is because they want them specialized that you know, they're
(22:23):
they're actually penalizing them for that. We have found, and
we've seen this just in our own experience, that our
children are healthier mentally when they switch sports. So that
changeover from let's say fall soccer to basketball in the winter,
or from basketball in the winter to golf in the spring,
(22:46):
you can see this this actual physical and mental transformation
in there in the way that they're they're handling themselves.
They're burnout just from that one three month period of
everyday practice for let's say high school, and then they
move on to the next sport with new players, new friends,
new teammates that they haven't hung out with for a while,
and new motions, changes, new challenges, and you can actually
(23:10):
see that. So to your point, the burnout situation is tremendous,
and you felt it when you got to college. I
felt it when I got to college. I was a
freshman in college, and I couldn't have cared less.
Speaker 6 (23:23):
Once I was there. I was kind of done.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
You know.
Speaker 7 (23:26):
You just get to the point where you're like, I
just am tired of this and doing it every day
all day for you know, three or four years straight
to prep myself for this.
Speaker 6 (23:33):
So it's a tremendous issue.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Yeah, you know, it's funny.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Not funny again, But I've had an opportunity to interview
so many different professional athletes over.
Speaker 5 (23:48):
The years, and.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
To one they have always said, the best athletes I've
ever been around on the teams I've been on are
those that played a bunch of different sports, because the
different sports can translate into one to the other, whether
it's physical, whether it's metal, and it has made them
(24:11):
better athletes. And you know, so you look at it,
you say, wow, doesn't the general public, you know, people
like yourself who have gone through it, say yeah, maybe
maybe we should think of that as we try to
get our kids a scholarship or get them to the
(24:33):
Olympics or whatever level at the professional level, and that
the odds are so great.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
But you would think people would think that way, but.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
We all don't. We all don't be included. We want
our flesh and blood. We want the very.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
Best that we can think for them, and no matter
what it is.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
And you know, I always like to people think and say, well,
why does Johnny hate sports?
Speaker 5 (24:58):
And it's the fact that Johnny hates sports.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
It's a lot of things that the elements, the tiny
little elements that add into it, whether early specialization or
just early sign up, or the coaches that don't know
what they're doing, or the leagues that don't know.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
What they're doing.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
But the bottom line, Joe, and I know you will agree,
and I would love for your comments here today. But
the thing is is sports is so great.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
You've learned.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
I've learned that sports are the greatest lesson I think
I've ever had in life. I mean, when I get
down on things that I want to quit, like golf,
I always go back to my days in wrestling where
I was behind in a match and I knew that
if I gave up, that was the end of it,
and I struggled to try to continue. And so the
(25:48):
value of sports is so great, and it's great to
see that you've had your kids in sports.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
Yeah, the.
Speaker 6 (25:58):
I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 7 (25:59):
There are just so many lessons from any sports, whether
you're a golfer, basketball player, a football player. You know
football with discipline, and you know golf is a tremendously
difficult sport where if you work hard and you score well,
you get rewarded for the effort that you put into it.
Time management and the psychology behind different sports, so it is,
(26:22):
it's just a tremendous thing to be involved in as
a as an individual. It does give you a lot
of life lessons. And we've watched, you know, our kids
and friends of our kids have failures and successes in sport,
and it just it doesn't teaches you so much along
the way. So I agree with you, and and and
you know, it's it's the it's the keeping that for
(26:45):
the kids rather than you know, robbing that from them,
and that I think part of the you know why
Johnny hates sports idea kind of hints at that where
if you turn club soccer to you know, this kind
of rat race towards having absolutely best players on every
(27:07):
team and forgetting about the community aspect of the sport,
you do take away some of those lessons that these
kids are learning, teaching them a lot harder lessons at
a younger age too, but there's there is.
Speaker 6 (27:22):
Some stuff that's lost there.
Speaker 7 (27:23):
So it's a It is great, you know, there's just
so much to be happy about as an athlete.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Well as you and I know and many people. We
could sit here all day long and talk about sports
and different sports stories that go on and on.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
But I want to thank you, Joel. You know you've
been great.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
And the best part of this whole thing is Yeah,
it's broadcast.
Speaker 5 (27:48):
On the w for c Y dot com.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
It streams everywhere the YouTube and Spotify and.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
The nice allies for you Sports.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
We send it out to twelve five hundred people that
are recreation people in communities across the country.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
These are the.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
People that should be watching and hearing what you're saying
in this because you've been there, you've done it, and
the advice i'll call it has been just tremendous. So
I want to thank you as being our man on
the street today for Why Johnny Sports.
Speaker 7 (28:27):
And thank you Fred so much for having me and
for everything you're doing, just doing a wonderful service there.
So I truly appreciate it, and thanks again for having
me on the show.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
You got it.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Why Johnny Hates Sports is a best selling book about
kids in sports. It chronicles why, at a very early age,
children are thrust into organized sports long before they have
the necessary skills to feel successful. Fathers and mothers are
asked to be their coach without having any training on
how to coach, and the leagues in which kids play
(29:04):
are governed by volunteers whose main focus becomes scoreboards, championships,
and all star games. Statistics show that close to seventy
percent of kids will have quit by the age of thirteen.
Most said it ceased to be fun, and that's why
Johnny Hates Sports.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
Well that's it, So I sure do hope that you'll
be back here for our third edition next week for
talking about travel teams, and we're going to be talking
with another great recreation specialists across the country, So tune
in again next Friday morning at eleven.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
This program is sponsored by Sirdarff Publishing in the interest
for better sports for kids, better kids for life.
The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are
solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not
those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We
make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
or products mentioned on air or on our web. No
liability explicitor implies shall be extended to W four CY
Radio or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments
should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for
(00:20):
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
The National Alliance for Youth Sports was born out of
a desire to bring order to the world of organized
sports for children in America. While for the most part,
children have a great experience playing sports, far too often
parents and coaches lose perspective.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I'm gonna get you to night because you let me
down covid all night you did, I'll get you by
its cravodet.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
This program is aimed at bringing some of America's best
experts to talk about what we can do to change
the atmosphere of win at all costs and behavior to
one that focuses on children having a positive learning experience
through sports. Here's our host Fred Ang, the founder of
the National Alliance for Youth Sports.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
And good morning everybody, and welcome to I think this
is a fifteenth edition of Why Johnny h Sports. And
you ever heard that expression, you know from some of
those shows called the man on the street. Well today
that's what we've got. A man on the street. Joel Adobie.
He and I played golf together and we were talking
(01:34):
one day about you know, travel teams, and I said, Joe,
you ought to be on our show, So I let
M introduce Joel.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
So good morning Joel, Good morning.
Speaker 6 (01:45):
Fred, Thank you so much for having me on. It's
great to see you.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Yeah. Hey, you know, one of the things I wanted
to show you that we did is a little bit
of a video about travel team. So we get our
producer here, want to show our little clip on it,
so big check this right.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
It all started over seventy years ago. Kids played for
fun in their neighborhood. Then things changed. Recreation departments were
created across America to provide fields for organized sports programs
organized by parents. Millions of children joined Little League kinds
(02:30):
of programs for all sports. Little League sports became a
household word, and then came travel teams, self described professional
coaches began offering opportunities for kids to join elite teams
for travel around the country to play in tournaments. According
(02:50):
to many recreation leaders, travel teams are distorting recreational ball
by siphoning talent, increasing financial and time burdens, and shifting
focus from community fun to elite competition.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
So there you have a Joe, you know, and obviously
from our conversation, you know, after playing golf at day,
you know, we talked a little bit about your experience
of you know, having kids in travel teams. So give
us a kind of a brief description of what happened
to you with your.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
Kids in travel. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (03:24):
So I've got quite a bit of experience in the
travel industry as well as the rec industry. I grew
up playing soccer from a very young age, both WREC
and of course, just like your video discusses, we moved
right into travel at a certain age, and you know,
the time commitments changed and the pricing changed and whatnot
(03:45):
when I was younger. Fortunately, back then, you know, it
was still very community based, like you talked about. So
travel teams back you know, twenty five years ago or
thirty years ago were still very community based and teams
stayed together for years, you know, from maybe the age
of twelve until sixteen, seventeen eighteen, and then off we went.
(04:07):
Now that I'm an adult and you know, either coaching
or running a program or having my own children in
both rec and travel programs, the difference is just staggering.
It's just an amazing change from that community base to
kind of, you know, a race to end up on
(04:28):
the best team or the right team. Costs of exploded
travel and time commitments are you know, to say there
over the top would be a I think that would
do a disservice to that statement. It's just it's just
become a tremendous burden for families, I think. And you know,
(04:53):
what we found too, and I think we'll probably touch
on this a bit, is the expectations not only for
the kids players, but also.
Speaker 6 (05:02):
From the parents have become a little bit over the top.
Speaker 7 (05:06):
And so anyway, it's it's a lot different environment than
than what we've seen over the last you know, twenty
twenty years prior.
Speaker 5 (05:14):
Okay, so you signed your kids up, so all of
a sudden, what.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Happened at that point in time when all of a
sudden you said, well, we got to sign our kids.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
Up and now they're going to be in travel ball.
So what happened?
Speaker 7 (05:29):
Yeah, so when when we started our oldest who is
now twenty one, she started playing club soccer travel soccer
around let's say twelve, maybe eleven, maybe ten. I wish
I could tell you exactly, but it was very young.
And you know at that time, as a former soccer player,
(05:51):
I tried to help the coach and you know, give
some of my expertise that quickly turned into a trem
and is time commitment for me now as a club coach,
you know, not only being available an hour before every
game and during the three times a week minimum practices
(06:12):
for an hour and a half, but also you know
traveling with her to games that many times were several
hours away. And this is for league games.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
You know, tournaments are a different issue.
Speaker 7 (06:25):
I think when people sign up to play club soccer
or any other club sport, they recognize that their weekends
are gone and they may be traveling, you know, across
the country or they may be traveling three to four
hours away. Sometimes it's a plane, sometimes it's a car.
But even the league games nowadays are several hours away,
so the commitment is tremendous. You know, one or two
(06:49):
games a weekend, so your entire weekend is gobbled up.
We put our second daughter into travel, who's two years younger,
and so now my wife is.
Speaker 6 (06:57):
Handling one, I'm handling the other. So you know, that
impacts us.
Speaker 7 (07:00):
And then we have another child who's a couple of
years younger, our son, and so he's getting kind of
carted around all these sporting events also, and then you know,
we enter him into it and so good night.
Speaker 6 (07:12):
You know, it's just it's just constant.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
So okay, So, so you mentioned that you had two
daughters and now a son, and you use the word joel,
we put them in that, and it raises a question
in my mind with many parents and whatnot, did they
ever ask you if they could play or did you
put them in there?
Speaker 7 (07:36):
Yeah, that's a that's a great question. So there's almost
this natural matriculation that's occurring. And your video touched on that.
Where the community based recreational leagues, which were when I
was younger enough, you know, they were high level. All
the kids that were great players in each sport were
(07:59):
involved in and those community based programs and it was
a it was a great they were great. It feels
like that has changed a bit where what we're finding
now is, you know, the better players or not even
the better players, I would say even you know, any
player who would be willing to pay the three to
(08:20):
five thousand dollars a year to join a travel program,
are you know, if they're staying behind in the rec programs,
they aren't finding the challenge, and they're finding that a
lot of their friends have also left that program.
Speaker 6 (08:32):
So it's just.
Speaker 7 (08:34):
It's becoming kind of a natural matriculation. To answer your question,
did we ask We had conversations about it. There was,
it was It was a very quick conversation where it
was the obvious next step for them because they were
decent players, so, you know, not much conversation went on.
Now we have over time yearly made sure that they
want the commitment level that you know, travel or club
(08:57):
soccer entails because it's expensive, you know, so we want
to make sure that they're on board and that they're
committed to the games and practices and whatnot, and that
they really want to continue down this road. And we
both of our daughters eventually, I think it was junior year,
did say, you know what, I'm done.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
I'm not.
Speaker 7 (09:15):
I don't see myself going forward with this in college,
so I don't want the commitment anymore. So at that age,
I'm mature enough to make that decision on their own.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Yeah, you know, it's funny you mentioned you said something
about five thousand dollars, and this is a four part
series where we have people like yourself, as I jokingly
call the man on the street to talk about it,
that isn't directly involved as.
Speaker 5 (09:40):
A recreation professional.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
But the last person we had on I said, yeah,
you know, parents spend five thousand dollars a year ago.
And she said, yeah, if they're lucky, if that's all
they have to pay five thousand. She said, most of the
people up here in Ohio, they get their kids involved
and they end up spending about fifteen thousand dollars to
(10:04):
go out there, which is, like you say, it's kind
of almost crazy to have that amount of money. But
here's another question I want to ask, is you know
there has to be some kind of pressure. I mean,
when you got your kids involved, like in playing Little league,
whatever sport, it was usually that's pressure from you know,
(10:26):
your friends Alan Mary's kid Tommy or Janet or six
years old?
Speaker 5 (10:34):
Are they going to play little league baseball or softball?
Speaker 4 (10:37):
And you know you're looking around and saying, well, I
guess so, so back to the did you did they
ask you? Did you put them? And then you just
sign them up to play little league baseball or softball
or whatever sport? And is that pressure the same kind
of pressure that you feel now that your kid is
(10:58):
playing and now they're going into travel ball because you
know our neighbors down the street their kids are playing
travel ball.
Speaker 6 (11:08):
Yeah, so two things there, Fred.
Speaker 7 (11:11):
First, you know, just to go back one step your
your discussion with the previous guest about the cost associated
that five grand is just to play. You know, it's
the travel expenses and the hotels, and you know that
dollar commitment is absolutely doubles it and to your guest point,
(11:32):
maybe triples it.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
I choose not to pay a lot of attention to.
Speaker 7 (11:37):
That part because I think that would help, that would
make me leave the leave it entirely. But yeah, it's
it's definitely ten or fifteen once you're all in for
a twelve month season, which is crazy as far as
pressure is concerned.
Speaker 6 (11:51):
You know, once I agree with you, it's definitely you know,
what your neighbors are doing, what the other kids are doing.
There is pressure.
Speaker 7 (11:58):
So if your child, you know is is a soccer
player or a baseball player and they're playing rec and
all the kids start to move on and hey, this
team's better.
Speaker 6 (12:09):
It's you know, they're doing more and there's potential for college.
Speaker 7 (12:13):
You know, it starts at such a young age where
folks start to think, well, you know, if I don't
put Johnny into the next level, A, he's not going
to have his friends around him. So there's that pressure.
But B, I'm losing a chance to have his college
paid for. And so that pressure exists. And then once
they're in, it's over. You know, once they're in. Tryouts
(12:37):
happen once a year. There earlier and earlier every year.
They used to be April and May. Now there some
places are March and April while you're still in season
for soccer.
Speaker 6 (12:46):
But that pressure then.
Speaker 7 (12:47):
Exists to make the same team, and you know, so
then the pressure gets pushed over to the kids and
they start to feel it, and you can see the
anxiety build as tryalts get closer and closer.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
So I think to your point.
Speaker 7 (12:59):
There's a lot of pressure points in travel or club
sports nowadays.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Yeah, wait a minute, you said something, Joel that triggered
for me. You said something about that they would lose
her opportunity for a scholarship, and this is another thing
that becomes such a fallacy of kids being on travel teams.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
But one of the funny things not.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Funny, I guess, but one of the comments that the
previous person, the rec professional said to me is about
the scholarship thing. And she said, you know that a
lot of the parents believe that, you know, hey, this
is the more reason that we're spending this kind of money,
you know, five, ten, fifteen thousand dollars is because we
(13:50):
want our kids to get a scholarship, and that the
odds of that happening with all these kids playing. Then
she said, I said to the parents, you know what
if they didn't play a trivel ball and you saved
fifteen thousand dollars a year, how about all that money
going to going to college, you know, without being a scholarship.
(14:14):
So you're you're spending money for travel teams that you
could be spending for the kids college.
Speaker 7 (14:21):
Yeah, I mean, you hit it on the head one
hundred percent, So you know, don't spend it, play reck
save the money. College is paid for, there's no doubt
about that. But the road to college sports is littered
with all these kids whose parents and I think it's
a parent issue. I don't think it's a player issue.
Whose parents have convinced themselves and their kids that, you know,
(14:47):
if they just work hard enough and they're great at
the sport, that they're going to get money to play
in school. And you know, not only is that money
wasted because it offsets the scholarship that they get. But
you know, I don't know the exact percentages, but they're
very low. You know, I've been in the soccer world
for literally my whole life, and the amount of kids
(15:09):
that I've seen get scholarships is so small. I mean
it's literally you can count it on one hand. And
many of those scholarships are you know, a couple thousand
dollars to go play the school. So that's the other
issue is what defines a scholarship. If I'm going to
a eighty thousand dollars a year school and I'm getting
(15:30):
thirty thousand dollars, I'm still paying fifty grand a year
to go to that school, which I may or may
not want to afford if I'm going to a smaller
or excuse me, a more or less expensive state school,
let's say twenty eight or thirty grand a year, and
I'm getting two. You know, what have I really accomplished
for getting two thousand dollars a year, other than you know,
getting a chance to play on that team where maybe
I might have even been able to walk on at
(15:52):
that point. So, you know, there's a lot of there's
a lot of problems in that argument, but it's just
it's a constant cont that we hear from parents.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Yeah, you mentioned that being a constant thing, and you wonder,
you know, here, as a parent, you're saying, Okay, it's
time for sports for my kids, and then you wonder
how many of those kids are saying, I want to
please my mom and dad. I want to say, you know,
(16:24):
they're back to my question, did you ask them or
put them?
Speaker 5 (16:27):
But when you kind of.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Put them into these sports situations, you wonder how many
of them are saying, I'm just doing this so I
don't upset them. They really want me out there playing.
They see how much I you know, I enjoy it,
they think, but I don't really enjoy it. And then
you find out after let's say four years of going
(16:55):
through this pain and you get it done, and you
say them, was it worth it? They said, well, you know,
I'd rather gone over to the lake to go swimming
with my other friends.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (17:08):
Yeah, I mean, I can share. I'll share a quick
personal story with you about one of our kids. She
she she's a good soccer player, ended up playing on
a local what's called e CNL team for soccer, which
is a national soccer league. It's it's, you know, one
of the top soccer leagues in the country. A lot
of college scouts, so on and so forth. And as
(17:30):
she got a little bit older in the sport, you know,
she was not necessarily keeping up with the rest of
the kids. Decent player, but she was, you know, outmatched
by some of the other kids on the field. Got
frustrated with the coach and one day, you know, he
didn't play her. He put her in, pulled her out
real quick, and I had been frustrated with him anyway.
I had gone to the car once she was out
of the game, and she came to the car after
(17:51):
the game, upset and I looked at her and I said,
I want you to know it's okay with me if
you quit.
Speaker 6 (17:57):
She quit the next day. So to your point, you know, at.
Speaker 7 (18:01):
That stage, she knew, you know, where she was on
the team, and she was at that point playing for
her parents, you know, to keep them happy. And once
she was relieved of that, she got over it pretty quickly,
and you know, she started living her best life again.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
So anyway, it happens a lot, and she.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Went on and started playing the piano or day.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
That's right.
Speaker 7 (18:24):
Well, you know, Fred, what's important and I think what's
missed in all of this with a lot of these kids.
We would talk to our kids a lot about what
scholarships aren't being discussed, you know, and the ones that
aren't being discussed as much are the academic scholarships. And
so you know, we my wife and I were both
college athletes, and we talked to them about the probabilities
of not only getting a scholarship, but actually playing in college,
(18:49):
and how that may take away from college experience. You
might not play a lot anyway, so on and so forth.
So we talked to them about academic scholarships, and they
were both so far to kids in college able to
get small all academic scholarships rather than focus so much
on getting the soccer scholarships. So yeah, I mean they
had fun in school and they got good grades. They
played soccer after that as kind of fun for high
(19:11):
school and it was more enjoyable for them.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Yeah, you brought back a little bit of memory for me.
You're talking about, you know, being a college athlete, and
it brings me the word of burnout. I went through
the same thing myself. I was a wrestler in high
school and the school I went to, they gave you
a choice that you had to participate in sports throughout
(19:38):
the year, so you could go to one sport or
the other, or you could stay in the same sport.
And of course, our wrestling coach said, I'll just sign
up for fall wrestling, winter wrestling, sprame or wrestling, and
that's all I ever did, and four years in a row,
(19:59):
and then I ended up going to college. And the
first year of college, I said, now this is like
a job.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
I mean, this is like work.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Before it was kind of fun and you know, you're
with your friends and enjoying tournaments and everything, but.
Speaker 5 (20:18):
Then you get the thing to call burnout.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
I mean, I just got burned out and I said,
I'm tired of having my face shoved down in the
map and somebody trying to kill me. So I wonder,
you know what, when you go back and you look
at the years that you're doing it, and I'm guessing
that maybe you're not still doing it.
Speaker 5 (20:39):
Maybe you are, but it doesn't matter.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
But if you look around and you see a lot
of those kids, they go through burnout. I mean specialization
with you know the parents. No, you don't want to
play anything else, Mary, You're just going to What you
want to do is you're going to stay and specialize.
And the reason that you going to do that is
because if you don't, somebody's going to get better than you.
(21:05):
So get out there and just practice every day all
year round.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
I'm sure you've seen.
Speaker 7 (21:11):
That, absolutely, And it's a you know, we we read
study after study after study that talks about the benefits
of being a multi sport athlete if you're an athlete,
and all we hear from the club coaches is they
want you to play their sport and their sport alone
and to the degree.
Speaker 6 (21:31):
And we do deal with this. Still.
Speaker 7 (21:33):
We have one who's a sophomore in high school, and
we deal with the coaches, you know, penalizing the players
if they're a little bit late because maybe they were
at a basketball practice, even though you know from the
standpoint that I'm looking at it as a non coach,
as a parent, I.
Speaker 6 (21:50):
Actually think that those players should be rewarded.
Speaker 7 (21:53):
You know, if a fifteen or sixteen year old boy
is going to basketball practice after school or high school.
Speaker 6 (22:01):
And then.
Speaker 7 (22:03):
Getting some food, resting a little bit and going to
practice soccer practice, or walking out of that building and
going directly to soccer practice, to me, that's showing someone
who's dedicated to their sport, to all of their sports,
and to their well being and managing their time and
so on and so forth. But instead, what we're finding
is because they want them specialized that you know, they're
(22:23):
they're actually penalizing them for that. We have found, and
we've seen this just in our own experience, that our
children are healthier mentally when they switch sports. So that
changeover from let's say fall soccer to basketball in the winter,
or from basketball in the winter to golf in the spring,
(22:46):
you can see this this actual physical and mental transformation
in there in the way that they're they're handling themselves.
They're burnout just from that one three month period of
everyday practice for let's say high school, and then they
move on to the next sport with new players, new friends,
new teammates that they haven't hung out with for a while,
and new motions, changes, new challenges, and you can actually
(23:10):
see that. So to your point, the burnout situation is tremendous,
and you felt it when you got to college. I
felt it when I got to college. I was a
freshman in college, and I couldn't have cared less.
Speaker 6 (23:23):
Once I was there. I was kind of done.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
You know.
Speaker 7 (23:26):
You just get to the point where you're like, I
just am tired of this and doing it every day
all day for you know, three or four years straight
to prep myself for this.
Speaker 6 (23:33):
So it's a tremendous issue.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Yeah, you know, it's funny.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Not funny again, But I've had an opportunity to interview
so many different professional athletes over.
Speaker 5 (23:48):
The years, and.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
To one they have always said, the best athletes I've
ever been around on the teams I've been on are
those that played a bunch of different sports, because the
different sports can translate into one to the other, whether
it's physical, whether it's metal, and it has made them
(24:11):
better athletes. And you know, so you look at it,
you say, wow, doesn't the general public, you know, people
like yourself who have gone through it, say yeah, maybe
maybe we should think of that as we try to
get our kids a scholarship or get them to the
(24:33):
Olympics or whatever level at the professional level, and that
the odds are so great.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
But you would think people would think that way, but.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
We all don't. We all don't be included. We want
our flesh and blood. We want the very.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
Best that we can think for them, and no matter
what it is.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
And you know, I always like to people think and say, well,
why does Johnny hate sports?
Speaker 5 (24:58):
And it's the fact that Johnny hates sports.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
It's a lot of things that the elements, the tiny
little elements that add into it, whether early specialization or
just early sign up, or the coaches that don't know
what they're doing, or the leagues that don't know.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
What they're doing.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
But the bottom line, Joe, and I know you will agree,
and I would love for your comments here today. But
the thing is is sports is so great.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
You've learned.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
I've learned that sports are the greatest lesson I think
I've ever had in life. I mean, when I get
down on things that I want to quit, like golf,
I always go back to my days in wrestling where
I was behind in a match and I knew that
if I gave up, that was the end of it,
and I struggled to try to continue. And so the
(25:48):
value of sports is so great, and it's great to
see that you've had your kids in sports.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
Yeah, the.
Speaker 6 (25:58):
I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 7 (25:59):
There are just so many lessons from any sports, whether
you're a golfer, basketball player, a football player. You know
football with discipline, and you know golf is a tremendously
difficult sport where if you work hard and you score well,
you get rewarded for the effort that you put into it.
Time management and the psychology behind different sports, so it is,
(26:22):
it's just a tremendous thing to be involved in as
a as an individual. It does give you a lot
of life lessons. And we've watched, you know, our kids
and friends of our kids have failures and successes in sport,
and it just it doesn't teaches you so much along
the way. So I agree with you, and and and
you know, it's it's the it's the keeping that for
(26:45):
the kids rather than you know, robbing that from them,
and that I think part of the you know why
Johnny hates sports idea kind of hints at that where
if you turn club soccer to you know, this kind
of rat race towards having absolutely best players on every
(27:07):
team and forgetting about the community aspect of the sport,
you do take away some of those lessons that these
kids are learning, teaching them a lot harder lessons at
a younger age too, but there's there is.
Speaker 6 (27:22):
Some stuff that's lost there.
Speaker 7 (27:23):
So it's a It is great, you know, there's just
so much to be happy about as an athlete.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Well as you and I know and many people. We
could sit here all day long and talk about sports
and different sports stories that go on and on.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
But I want to thank you, Joel. You know you've
been great.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
And the best part of this whole thing is Yeah,
it's broadcast.
Speaker 5 (27:48):
On the w for c Y dot com.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
It streams everywhere the YouTube and Spotify and.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
The nice allies for you Sports.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
We send it out to twelve five hundred people that
are recreation people in communities across the country.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
These are the.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
People that should be watching and hearing what you're saying
in this because you've been there, you've done it, and
the advice i'll call it has been just tremendous. So
I want to thank you as being our man on
the street today for Why Johnny Sports.
Speaker 7 (28:27):
And thank you Fred so much for having me and
for everything you're doing, just doing a wonderful service there.
So I truly appreciate it, and thanks again for having
me on the show.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
You got it.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Why Johnny Hates Sports is a best selling book about
kids in sports. It chronicles why, at a very early age,
children are thrust into organized sports long before they have
the necessary skills to feel successful. Fathers and mothers are
asked to be their coach without having any training on
how to coach, and the leagues in which kids play
(29:04):
are governed by volunteers whose main focus becomes scoreboards, championships,
and all star games. Statistics show that close to seventy
percent of kids will have quit by the age of thirteen.
Most said it ceased to be fun, and that's why
Johnny Hates Sports.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
Well that's it, So I sure do hope that you'll
be back here for our third edition next week for
talking about travel teams, and we're going to be talking
with another great recreation specialists across the country, So tune
in again next Friday morning at eleven.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
This program is sponsored by Sirdarff Publishing in the interest
for better sports for kids, better kids for life.
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