May 30, 2025 • 33 mins
sadly , undesireables end up coaching kids in sports . Many of them criminals.
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Why Johnny Hates Sports is broadcast live Fridays at 11AM ET on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Why Johnny Hates Sports is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are
solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not
those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We
make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
or products mentioned on air or on our web. No
liability explicitor implies shall be extended to W four CY
Radio or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments
should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for
(00:20):
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
The National Alliance for Youth Sports was born out of
a desire to bring order to the world of organized
sports for children in America. While for the most part,
children have a great experience playing sports, far too often
parents and coaches lose perspective.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I'm gonna gets you to night because you let me down.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
COVID all night.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
I'll get you, buddy, It's Croodt.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
This program is aimed at bringing some of America's best
experts to talk about what we can do to change
the atmosphere of win at all costs and behavior to
one that focuses on children having a positive learning experience
through sports. Here's our host, Fred Ang, the founder of
the National Alliance for Youth Sports.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Hey, good morning everybody, and welcome to I think now
the seventeenth edition of Why Johnny Hats Sports and brow
to present today the Pride of Greenville, South Carolina Recreation Department,
Rich Dixon. So good morning, Rich.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Good morning. Thank you for having me. Fred.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Oh yeah, man, it's great to have you. You've been
been a stall wark in the world of the National
Alliance for Youth Sports certified Youth Sport administrators. I know
that for a few years now. And you know, Rich,
big people that watch this show, and by the way,
this goes out to twelve thousand and five hundred of
(01:55):
people like yourself across the country. So but they're out
people to watch and say, well, what does a recreation
department person do? So can you tell us what it's
like there in Greenville and your role?
Speaker 4 (02:10):
Okay? I think from the kind of community perspective, I
think the local Parks and Right Department kind of set
the expected standards and new sport for our area, kind
of realizing that each community is unique and different. And
as far as you know, we're set up in Greenville
(02:31):
County is we work with a lot of partnerships and
to help provide youth sports programs in the community. And
so we you know, we'll work with local Little League
soccer clubs, lacrosse clubs, you name it, hockey clubs, and
(02:52):
so a lot of times we do the field providing
and we try to set those standards when it comes
to expectations for coaches, certifications, background checks, and you know
kind of expectations with you know, weather and abuse prevention
(03:13):
and different things like that. But I think it's a
vital part of each community in Parks Rec Department to
set that that tone for their community.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Yeah, one of the things that we've done rich for
the last several episodes is talk about travel ball and
how travel ball is affecting those facilities and programs and communities.
Let me show you with our engineer to show a
video that we do about tribal teams today.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
It all started over seventy years ago. Kids played for
fun in their neighborhood. Then things Changedation departments were created
across America to provide fields for organized sports programs organized
by parents. Millions of children joined Little League kinds of
(04:10):
programs for all sports. Little League sports became a household
word and then came travel teams, self described professional coaches
began offering opportunities for kids to join elite teams for
travel around the country to play in tournaments. According to
(04:31):
many recreation leaders, travel teams are distorting recreational ball by
siphoning talent, increasing financial and time burdens, and shifting focus
from community fund to elite competition.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
So rich you just watched that, how does that compare
to anything in Grenville?
Speaker 4 (04:52):
I think I think we kind of have a cross
section in our community that uh, you know, I think
there's a place for travel ball. But for us, I
think what we've seen, I guess kind of the level
of evolution of youth sports in our area is travel
(05:16):
ball has kind of become less of the travel side,
where it's kind of more become localized and maybe not
as much elite. You know. I think there is some
there's a lot of that still there. But for us,
what travel has kind of become is almost it's the
next level. But we have found groups that have, like
(05:40):
with Little League, that may have you know, travel teams
that come out of their league and so they may
you know, share within the Little League. They may work
out a schedule to allow that to happen, and a
lot of times where you're not you're not seeing kids
travel quite so far. You know, it's not traveling through
(06:05):
four hours away the full weekend. You know, it may
just be we're traveling within an hour the where you live.
And then you you know, you go and can stay
at your you can commute and go to the tournaments.
So we have see kind of the hybrid model come
into play for some of our independent little leagues and
(06:26):
stuff where they allow that to happen. And then of
course with soccer, you have different levels, uh in our
community with that where you know, some may be traveling
all over the country. And and then kind of a
unique perspective that I have is, uh, my son actually
(06:49):
plays wheelchair basketball. We play with the National Wheelchair Basketball Association,
where the only youth wheelchair basketball team in the country,
and I'm excusing excusing in the state. There's probably forty
or fifty in our age group across the country. But
because it's such a unique kind of demographic with the youth,
(07:15):
you know, you have to travel to play your rec
ball per se. So you know, from that perspective, we
do have to travel, we do have to get the
hotel and stuff. But that's just to allow our kids
with you know, disabilities and stuff lower limb disability usually
(07:38):
what wheelchair basketball, So we have to travel to find
other teams to play. And but for us, you know,
I think the big that the hybrid model has kind
of taken hold here locally, and it does take some
away from the parks and rec or the rec perspective,
(08:01):
but I think the hybrid model allows the continuity to
stay a little bit with the little leagues and the
rec side of things. And then also you have the
argument of for the perspective of you know, where you
do too much specialization within a specific sport doing the
(08:23):
year round travel, where we do see that burnout that
does happen where kids are you know, playing baseball twenty
four to seven, you know, going to training and going
to travel, playing on elite teams and they're missing out
on the you know, the variety and balance of you know,
(08:44):
the data shows that playing in other sports actually helps
the long term athlete, both mentally and physically.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yeah. You know, one of the things I learned from
so many people like yourself in creation is the big
problem is is that when they have travel teams, it
takes away the facilities. I mean, if you look back
at recreation, and I've been involved in recreation for years
before before the National Alliance for Whose Sports that is,
(09:18):
but one of the things that was available is recreation
departments in communities they built facilities for originally for baseball,
so you have baseball fields all over the place, and
then it came football and soccer fields and whatever. But
(09:39):
then what I hear is with the travel teams that
come in and they go to the rec departments and say, well,
we'd like to lease your facility over there for let's
say baseball that may not happen in Greenville, but it's
happening around the country. And they pay money because the
parents are paying. As one parent told me that they're
(10:03):
paying like fifteen thousand dollars a year for their kid
to play in a baseball program that is travel team.
So I mean, it just destroys a good opportunity for
just the regular kids in the community that may not
have the funds to do that, to find a facility
(10:25):
to play the leagues, to come out and get formed.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
What do you think of that?
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Is it like that many facilities in Greenville been taken
away from those leagues by travel teams.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
I would say, not as big an impact as it
is seen in other parts of the country where we
are blessed that we have, you know, close to fifty
five parks and facilities. And I will say that, you know,
(11:06):
the Little Leagues we provide the field for, we allowed
them at least during the season, you know, like February
through June and and then August through early November when
their season is usually run. The travel teams that are
that are connected through them, they we allow them to
(11:30):
work with those teams that are in house or that
are made up of Little League players, we do offer
we do have enough space that we can offer some
additional you know, we don't necessarily do long term least,
but where someone can come in and run a field
for a period of time. But we do give priority
(11:53):
to the local Little Leagues because they serve thousands of
kids in the community, and so we try to prioritize
those fields, those facilities during those key times of the year,
to the groups, to our Little League affiliated groups that
are partners with us.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Yeah, I read recently that with Little League that participation
is down significantly. Give me an example. It says that before,
Like back in twenty ten, there were three movieon kids
playing Little league baseball. Today there are two movieon playing
(12:37):
And what do you attribute that to? Is it like
that in Greenville or is it the same as it
always been.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
I would say there's been a definitely a slight decrease
across the board with baseball, not you know, not a
significant decrease, but I think across the board we have
seen that.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Why is that?
Speaker 4 (13:07):
I think first off is the you know, I think
it's something we've even seen in adult sports where softball,
you know, baseball kind of transitions to softball as adults.
I think first off is the variety of sports that
are offer nowadays, with the soccer clubs, lacrosse coming on
(13:28):
the scene in recent years. You know, we even have
kids playing getting into rugby a little bit, not real big,
but you know, so I think you see compared to
twenty years ago or even ten years ago, that the
kids are so spread thin with doing multiple sports at
(13:53):
one time or or other commitments. And then I do
think you do a shift. There's probably a portion of
the kids going straight the travel ball, you know there
it's not a rec ball first travel second, you know,
it may be where they're playing a full year schedule
(14:16):
or a full spring schedule with travel ball ball versus
uh the recreational sidelight little league so so.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Department person like you Rich, I often as REC people,
you know you're dealing with Ultimately, you look out there
in Greenville and you know there are thousands of kids
in that community, and I know how it's growing and growing.
Uh So, as a w REC person, how do you
(14:50):
compare yourself to a classroom teacher? Do you feel like
your important role is developing kids through your programs there
in Greenville the same as classroom teachers.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
I think from the way we're structured, I think the
big focus of ours we are probably more of, you know,
training the coaches and setting those standards, making sure that
it's a kid's first mentality and that their safety and
(15:28):
well being is uh you know, is first and foremost
uh the priority. And and then I think, as you know,
as parks and rec in general, I think it's our
(15:50):
job to instill those values and those uh you know,
positive I think values and new sports and the foundation
is important that we kind of established that in our
communities into our coaches, and then it trickles down through
the associations in our little leagues as well.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
I can't believe that your department there couldn't be very
similar to so many where The reason I wrote the
book Why Johnny Hates Sports is, you know, kids don't
hate sports. But what happens is you get you get
a kid is five years old and the parents says, okay,
(16:34):
you're going to play little league. Well, they don't know
whether the kid can catch and throw and kick and
hit or whatever basic athletic skills you need. They just
thrust them out in the field. And so the kid
in many many cases gets frustrated and it doesn't like it.
And then you get, like you mentioned, you need to
(16:55):
be training these coaches, Well, you know yourself, they're not coaches,
their parents who have been made to play a role
as a coach, and they really don't know what they're
doing most of the time. So you're doing all that,
but as as a person, you know, ultimately responsible for
what happens to to billy that's out they were playing
(17:18):
or married playing whatever. Uh, what responsibility do you think
recreation people have to make sure that's positive and safe.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
I think it's our you know, first and foremost most responsibility,
you know, if we were more hands on with like
recruiting the coaches and putting together the teams.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
And you know, you see a lot of times the parents,
you know, they maybe played football, played baseball, but they've
never been a coach, and a lot of their behaviors
are mimicked from what they experienced growing up in new
sports and a lot of them are bad habits and
you know, negative negative feedback, you know when when a
(18:07):
player is being coached and stuff. So we got to
equip them with the proper tools and the proper you know,
methods and help them learn the sport as well, you know,
the foundational stuff.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
But that that doesn't mean, as we all know, when
you give them that training, that they're going to turn
into this wonderful person that you hope that would be.
I know, you've got to tell me that you've seen situations.
Can you tell me a situation where you followed a
(18:46):
coach that was a person that shouldn't be out there
with kids.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Yes, I think over the years there's been a several
situations where you know, you can hear coaches yelling at
the kids, you can hear what they're saying. You know,
fifty yards away and belittling the kids and ones that
are arguing with the referees or you know, this constant
(19:16):
negative personality and want to argue everything in there, you know,
in the kid's face and yelling at them. We've had that,
you know, we have that, I think just about everywhere
new sports, unfortunately, but I have seen that over the years.
And I even remember back early in my career where
(19:42):
you know, we we actually wasn't a coach, but it
was why fences are important, but we actually had a
parent that was putting you know, putting like money out
if a kid got a touchdown or you know, stuff
(20:03):
like that to encourage you know, uh, encourage them during
the game. And the coach went along with it and
stuff like that. So but there's a lot of you know,
negative behavior that we've seen over the years. But I
would say the yelling, the negative tone and stuff towards
(20:25):
the kids is a situation we see sometimes.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
What do you do when you see it happen?
Speaker 4 (20:37):
Probably follow up with, you know, if we try to
stop it, if it if it gets out of hand,
pull the coach aside. And it's hard too that we
don't you know, a lot of our partnerships. We rely
on them. They're the ones handling the coaches and the situations.
But you know, in the situation, pull them aside, you know, correct,
(21:04):
try to correct the situation at the field, and then
we would go back and do some you know, follow
up with the Youth Association and or the Little League
and I go with them, you know, go to them
and you know, work with them on the coach's behavior
(21:27):
and try to correct it.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
So here's a here's a good question for you, rich
The little leagues are using your facility, right, Yes, they
got to get a lease for it, all right. So
now you find out that a little league and has
its own board and what and who reports that somebody
(21:55):
is abusive I mean either physically or emostally or you know,
towards a kid. Do they report it to the little
league board or or do you hear about it?
Speaker 4 (22:08):
We don't always hear about it, being our structure. A
lot of times they'll go to their Little League board
to handle the situation. Sometimes if a parent feels like
maybe they're not getting heard from the Little League or
from the whatever board Youth Association is, they'll come to
(22:31):
us and then we will we will approach the board
or the president and talk to them about the situation
and see what's happening and see if we can assist
them with the situation as well.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Here's a good question I need to ask you, if
somebody's been around for a while, I've always had the
impression the kids playing sports at below the age of
ten in particular, is it really needed? And it should be?
And the reason being the early maturing situation where you've
(23:09):
got a kid that could be let's say seven years old,
but maturing wise, he or she can be four years
ahead of their time. And then you had the other
side where somebody's seven can be three or four years
(23:30):
under a late mature. So now you have them out
there playing in a competitive game. Is that saying crazy
to you?
Speaker 4 (23:44):
I think kids should be playing with their age group,
regardless of their skill level. You know, even though they
might be advanced physically, even talent wise, you know, mentally,
there's still the age that they are. And we try
to do the one program we do provide a little
(24:04):
structure too, and is youth football. And that's one that
we're real, real careful that you know, kids are playing
with their age group and and then not playing up
and a for the safety of the contact reasons, and
then be just the skill level. You know, you know,
(24:30):
if you have a kid that's you know, maybe well gifted,
you know, physically, but it doesn't necessarily translate that it'll
be a safe and positive environment for them if they
play up, you know, in a more competitive environment.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Yeah, Like I say, it just seems so unnatural to
have a programming you mentioned with So we have somebody
that is seven years old playing an a youth football
program that is really an eleven year old body wise,
(25:14):
So where do you think the coach plays plays that kid?
And so it's I know that some football programs and
maybe the football groups in your community create rules for
weight that they're allowed to weigh a certain weight or
they can't play a certain position. Do you find that
(25:36):
in the leagues there?
Speaker 4 (25:39):
So kind of how we're structured. We kind of have
a hybrid model that we have in house. It has
input from like American Youth Football, USA Football, a little
bit of Pop Warner, and I guess we call it
they used to call it the striper rule, or then
(25:59):
we call it a ninety number rule. And so for
each age group we have a weight limit and and
then we weigh them in at the beginning of each season.
They have you know, one time to make weight and
that's their their weight for the season. And then if
(26:20):
they do not make weight, if they're over the weight limit,
they wear a ninety number and they are limited to
the offense and defensive line regardless. There's no upper weight
limit where they can't play. I know there's some models
where you know, if you're too big, you can't play
(26:41):
at all, and I think sometimes that you know, you
may have a really big kid that needs the physical
activity and it would be beneficial. So we don't want
to discourage a kid playing because just because of size.
But what that anyway, it puts them on a ninety
(27:02):
number and they play offensive defensive line, they usually have
to be down on a three point stance and then
they're just because of contact and you know, full speed
of the game of football, especially on kickoffs and returns
and stuff like that, the ninety numbers are not allowed
to play on the kickoffs and stuff like that. So
that's kind of how we approach it. You know, there
(27:26):
used to be some limits of how many ninety numbers
you could play out on the field at a time,
and we've had variations over the years, but you know,
we want all kids to play regardless of where they're
out in their size. And you know acknowledging that, hey,
don't make the weight limit, but we don't want to
(27:47):
say you're too big to play at all on it.
And I know and those models are good too. Like
I said, it's for each community in each state. But
that's kind of how we approach the football model with
our program in the weight limit.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Yeah, Rich, I tell the story talking about again, I
go back to the whole problem with you football. Tell
the story about a mother who went to go pick
her child up. She told me this story. She went
had to go pick her child up for an appointment
(28:22):
at football practice, and when she got there, she couldn't
find her son. So she looked around and as the
coach had said, where's my son, he's not here. She said,
he's over in the car over there, and she said
in the car, said yeah. She ran over the car,
(28:45):
open the door. This is at the summertime. The heat
was on.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Turned up.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I wrapped in plastic wrap. You know what the coach
was doing, right, Rich?
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Yeah, So what happened is that woman rightfully. So got
our kid out of the car and went over to
the coach and screamed and said, I'm going to sue
you for almost having killed my son. And the guy said, well,
(29:25):
I'm just trying to get him to make weight. And see,
that's the mentality of youth football. You football coaches so
many times that they don't think they're only thinking about
winning and winning at all costs. So I know it's
(29:45):
a wreck person that's concerned you and every other recor
person across the country. So what do you think about
that story?
Speaker 4 (29:57):
I mean, I think that's a that's a story that
it's all too familiar growing up being a football player,
the old trash bags running hills and you know, twenty
thirty years ago. I mean I played back in the
early nineties and you know, that was kind of accepted,
it was okay. And just think of how many injuries
(30:23):
or you know, potential death that may have you know,
overheating and could have been prevented over the over the years.
It's a it's a practice that's all, you know, too
much accepted out there. I think still, you know, and
(30:43):
that went at all costs to never you know, jeopardize
the safety and well being of a player, and especially
with so many studies that I known, with Nate's Congress,
we've I believe it was Corey Stringer's dad or no,
Cory Stringer, you may know.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Who you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Yeah, the Maryland football player. I draw a B link
right now. And his organization has done a great job
with awareness of of and I think helping communities purchase
the supplies too, you know, help combat overheating and educating
coaches and stuff. And I think that that that mentality
(31:32):
is what hurts you sports and.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
And just the thing is it still goes on. You said,
get back back maybe in the nineties and whatnot. I
can assure you the same thing is going on at
the end of the summer where these coaches are out there.
So what I'm going to do is I want to
thank you and along with all the other recreation professionals
(32:00):
allart's the country who look at these situations and try
to create some avenue to put away with this kind
of behavior, whether it's ending programs that violate it in
any kind of way. Because in the end, like I say,
that's why Johnny hates sports. So again, Rich I want
(32:22):
to thank you very much for being here today and
good luck with everything you do in green Bill.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Thank you for having you have a great day, all righty.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
Why Johnny Hates Sports is a best selling book about
kids in sports. It chronicles why, at a very early age,
children are thrust into organized sports long before they have
the necessary skills to feel successful. Fathers and mothers are
asked to be their coach without having any training on
how to coach, and the leagues in which kids play
(32:58):
are governed by volunteers whose main focus becomes scoreboards, championships,
and all star games. Statistics show that close to seventy
percent of kids will have quit by the age of thirteen.
Most said it ceased to be fun, and that's why
Johnny Hates Sports.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Well, there you have it, folks for this weekend, and
I'm going to thank Rich again from Greenville, South Carolina
for being big on the show today. We'll be back
here again next Friday and look forward to seeing you
with us. Have a great weekend.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
This program is sponsored by sir Derff Publishing in the
interest for better sports for kids, Better kids for life.
The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are
solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not
those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We
make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
or products mentioned on air or on our web. No
liability explicitor implies shall be extended to W four CY
Radio or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments
should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for
(00:20):
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
The National Alliance for Youth Sports was born out of
a desire to bring order to the world of organized
sports for children in America. While for the most part,
children have a great experience playing sports, far too often
parents and coaches lose perspective.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I'm gonna gets you to night because you let me down.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
COVID all night.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
I'll get you, buddy, It's Croodt.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
This program is aimed at bringing some of America's best
experts to talk about what we can do to change
the atmosphere of win at all costs and behavior to
one that focuses on children having a positive learning experience
through sports. Here's our host, Fred Ang, the founder of
the National Alliance for Youth Sports.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Hey, good morning everybody, and welcome to I think now
the seventeenth edition of Why Johnny Hats Sports and brow
to present today the Pride of Greenville, South Carolina Recreation Department,
Rich Dixon. So good morning, Rich.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Good morning. Thank you for having me. Fred.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Oh yeah, man, it's great to have you. You've been
been a stall wark in the world of the National
Alliance for Youth Sports certified Youth Sport administrators. I know
that for a few years now. And you know, Rich,
big people that watch this show, and by the way,
this goes out to twelve thousand and five hundred of
(01:55):
people like yourself across the country. So but they're out
people to watch and say, well, what does a recreation
department person do? So can you tell us what it's
like there in Greenville and your role?
Speaker 4 (02:10):
Okay? I think from the kind of community perspective, I
think the local Parks and Right Department kind of set
the expected standards and new sport for our area, kind
of realizing that each community is unique and different. And
as far as you know, we're set up in Greenville
(02:31):
County is we work with a lot of partnerships and
to help provide youth sports programs in the community. And
so we you know, we'll work with local Little League
soccer clubs, lacrosse clubs, you name it, hockey clubs, and
(02:52):
so a lot of times we do the field providing
and we try to set those standards when it comes
to expectations for coaches, certifications, background checks, and you know
kind of expectations with you know, weather and abuse prevention
(03:13):
and different things like that. But I think it's a
vital part of each community in Parks Rec Department to
set that that tone for their community.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Yeah, one of the things that we've done rich for
the last several episodes is talk about travel ball and
how travel ball is affecting those facilities and programs and communities.
Let me show you with our engineer to show a
video that we do about tribal teams today.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
It all started over seventy years ago. Kids played for
fun in their neighborhood. Then things Changedation departments were created
across America to provide fields for organized sports programs organized
by parents. Millions of children joined Little League kinds of
(04:10):
programs for all sports. Little League sports became a household
word and then came travel teams, self described professional coaches
began offering opportunities for kids to join elite teams for
travel around the country to play in tournaments. According to
(04:31):
many recreation leaders, travel teams are distorting recreational ball by
siphoning talent, increasing financial and time burdens, and shifting focus
from community fund to elite competition.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
So rich you just watched that, how does that compare
to anything in Grenville?
Speaker 4 (04:52):
I think I think we kind of have a cross
section in our community that uh, you know, I think
there's a place for travel ball. But for us, I
think what we've seen, I guess kind of the level
of evolution of youth sports in our area is travel
(05:16):
ball has kind of become less of the travel side,
where it's kind of more become localized and maybe not
as much elite. You know. I think there is some
there's a lot of that still there. But for us,
what travel has kind of become is almost it's the
next level. But we have found groups that have, like
(05:40):
with Little League, that may have you know, travel teams
that come out of their league and so they may
you know, share within the Little League. They may work
out a schedule to allow that to happen, and a
lot of times where you're not you're not seeing kids
travel quite so far. You know, it's not traveling through
(06:05):
four hours away the full weekend. You know, it may
just be we're traveling within an hour the where you live.
And then you you know, you go and can stay
at your you can commute and go to the tournaments.
So we have see kind of the hybrid model come
into play for some of our independent little leagues and
(06:26):
stuff where they allow that to happen. And then of
course with soccer, you have different levels, uh in our
community with that where you know, some may be traveling
all over the country. And and then kind of a
unique perspective that I have is, uh, my son actually
(06:49):
plays wheelchair basketball. We play with the National Wheelchair Basketball Association,
where the only youth wheelchair basketball team in the country,
and I'm excusing excusing in the state. There's probably forty
or fifty in our age group across the country. But
because it's such a unique kind of demographic with the youth,
(07:15):
you know, you have to travel to play your rec
ball per se. So you know, from that perspective, we
do have to travel, we do have to get the
hotel and stuff. But that's just to allow our kids
with you know, disabilities and stuff lower limb disability usually
(07:38):
what wheelchair basketball, So we have to travel to find
other teams to play. And but for us, you know,
I think the big that the hybrid model has kind
of taken hold here locally, and it does take some
away from the parks and rec or the rec perspective,
(08:01):
but I think the hybrid model allows the continuity to
stay a little bit with the little leagues and the
rec side of things. And then also you have the
argument of for the perspective of you know, where you
do too much specialization within a specific sport doing the
(08:23):
year round travel, where we do see that burnout that
does happen where kids are you know, playing baseball twenty
four to seven, you know, going to training and going
to travel, playing on elite teams and they're missing out
on the you know, the variety and balance of you know,
(08:44):
the data shows that playing in other sports actually helps
the long term athlete, both mentally and physically.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yeah. You know, one of the things I learned from
so many people like yourself in creation is the big
problem is is that when they have travel teams, it
takes away the facilities. I mean, if you look back
at recreation, and I've been involved in recreation for years
before before the National Alliance for Whose Sports that is,
(09:18):
but one of the things that was available is recreation
departments in communities they built facilities for originally for baseball,
so you have baseball fields all over the place, and
then it came football and soccer fields and whatever. But
(09:39):
then what I hear is with the travel teams that
come in and they go to the rec departments and say, well,
we'd like to lease your facility over there for let's
say baseball that may not happen in Greenville, but it's
happening around the country. And they pay money because the
parents are paying. As one parent told me that they're
(10:03):
paying like fifteen thousand dollars a year for their kid
to play in a baseball program that is travel team.
So I mean, it just destroys a good opportunity for
just the regular kids in the community that may not
have the funds to do that, to find a facility
(10:25):
to play the leagues, to come out and get formed.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
What do you think of that?
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Is it like that many facilities in Greenville been taken
away from those leagues by travel teams.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
I would say, not as big an impact as it
is seen in other parts of the country where we
are blessed that we have, you know, close to fifty
five parks and facilities. And I will say that, you know,
(11:06):
the Little Leagues we provide the field for, we allowed
them at least during the season, you know, like February
through June and and then August through early November when
their season is usually run. The travel teams that are
that are connected through them, they we allow them to
(11:30):
work with those teams that are in house or that
are made up of Little League players, we do offer
we do have enough space that we can offer some
additional you know, we don't necessarily do long term least,
but where someone can come in and run a field
for a period of time. But we do give priority
(11:53):
to the local Little Leagues because they serve thousands of
kids in the community, and so we try to prioritize
those fields, those facilities during those key times of the year,
to the groups, to our Little League affiliated groups that
are partners with us.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Yeah, I read recently that with Little League that participation
is down significantly. Give me an example. It says that before,
Like back in twenty ten, there were three movieon kids
playing Little league baseball. Today there are two movieon playing
(12:37):
And what do you attribute that to? Is it like
that in Greenville or is it the same as it
always been.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
I would say there's been a definitely a slight decrease
across the board with baseball, not you know, not a
significant decrease, but I think across the board we have
seen that.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Why is that?
Speaker 4 (13:07):
I think first off is the you know, I think
it's something we've even seen in adult sports where softball,
you know, baseball kind of transitions to softball as adults.
I think first off is the variety of sports that
are offer nowadays, with the soccer clubs, lacrosse coming on
(13:28):
the scene in recent years. You know, we even have
kids playing getting into rugby a little bit, not real big,
but you know, so I think you see compared to
twenty years ago or even ten years ago, that the
kids are so spread thin with doing multiple sports at
(13:53):
one time or or other commitments. And then I do
think you do a shift. There's probably a portion of
the kids going straight the travel ball, you know there
it's not a rec ball first travel second, you know,
it may be where they're playing a full year schedule
(14:16):
or a full spring schedule with travel ball ball versus
uh the recreational sidelight little league so so.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Department person like you Rich, I often as REC people,
you know you're dealing with Ultimately, you look out there
in Greenville and you know there are thousands of kids
in that community, and I know how it's growing and growing.
Uh So, as a w REC person, how do you
(14:50):
compare yourself to a classroom teacher? Do you feel like
your important role is developing kids through your programs there
in Greenville the same as classroom teachers.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
I think from the way we're structured, I think the
big focus of ours we are probably more of, you know,
training the coaches and setting those standards, making sure that
it's a kid's first mentality and that their safety and
(15:28):
well being is uh you know, is first and foremost
uh the priority. And and then I think, as you know,
as parks and rec in general, I think it's our
(15:50):
job to instill those values and those uh you know,
positive I think values and new sports and the foundation
is important that we kind of established that in our
communities into our coaches, and then it trickles down through
the associations in our little leagues as well.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
I can't believe that your department there couldn't be very
similar to so many where The reason I wrote the
book Why Johnny Hates Sports is, you know, kids don't
hate sports. But what happens is you get you get
a kid is five years old and the parents says, okay,
(16:34):
you're going to play little league. Well, they don't know
whether the kid can catch and throw and kick and
hit or whatever basic athletic skills you need. They just
thrust them out in the field. And so the kid
in many many cases gets frustrated and it doesn't like it.
And then you get, like you mentioned, you need to
(16:55):
be training these coaches, Well, you know yourself, they're not coaches,
their parents who have been made to play a role
as a coach, and they really don't know what they're
doing most of the time. So you're doing all that,
but as as a person, you know, ultimately responsible for
what happens to to billy that's out they were playing
(17:18):
or married playing whatever. Uh, what responsibility do you think
recreation people have to make sure that's positive and safe.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
I think it's our you know, first and foremost most responsibility,
you know, if we were more hands on with like
recruiting the coaches and putting together the teams.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
And you know, you see a lot of times the parents,
you know, they maybe played football, played baseball, but they've
never been a coach, and a lot of their behaviors
are mimicked from what they experienced growing up in new
sports and a lot of them are bad habits and
you know, negative negative feedback, you know when when a
(18:07):
player is being coached and stuff. So we got to
equip them with the proper tools and the proper you know,
methods and help them learn the sport as well, you know,
the foundational stuff.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
But that that doesn't mean, as we all know, when
you give them that training, that they're going to turn
into this wonderful person that you hope that would be.
I know, you've got to tell me that you've seen situations.
Can you tell me a situation where you followed a
(18:46):
coach that was a person that shouldn't be out there
with kids.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Yes, I think over the years there's been a several
situations where you know, you can hear coaches yelling at
the kids, you can hear what they're saying. You know,
fifty yards away and belittling the kids and ones that
are arguing with the referees or you know, this constant
(19:16):
negative personality and want to argue everything in there, you know,
in the kid's face and yelling at them. We've had that,
you know, we have that, I think just about everywhere
new sports, unfortunately, but I have seen that over the years.
And I even remember back early in my career where
(19:42):
you know, we we actually wasn't a coach, but it
was why fences are important, but we actually had a
parent that was putting you know, putting like money out
if a kid got a touchdown or you know, stuff
(20:03):
like that to encourage you know, uh, encourage them during
the game. And the coach went along with it and
stuff like that. So but there's a lot of you know,
negative behavior that we've seen over the years. But I
would say the yelling, the negative tone and stuff towards
(20:25):
the kids is a situation we see sometimes.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
What do you do when you see it happen?
Speaker 4 (20:37):
Probably follow up with, you know, if we try to
stop it, if it if it gets out of hand,
pull the coach aside. And it's hard too that we
don't you know, a lot of our partnerships. We rely
on them. They're the ones handling the coaches and the situations.
But you know, in the situation, pull them aside, you know, correct,
(21:04):
try to correct the situation at the field, and then
we would go back and do some you know, follow
up with the Youth Association and or the Little League
and I go with them, you know, go to them
and you know, work with them on the coach's behavior
(21:27):
and try to correct it.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
So here's a here's a good question for you, rich
The little leagues are using your facility, right, Yes, they
got to get a lease for it, all right. So
now you find out that a little league and has
its own board and what and who reports that somebody
(21:55):
is abusive I mean either physically or emostally or you know,
towards a kid. Do they report it to the little
league board or or do you hear about it?
Speaker 4 (22:08):
We don't always hear about it, being our structure. A
lot of times they'll go to their Little League board
to handle the situation. Sometimes if a parent feels like
maybe they're not getting heard from the Little League or
from the whatever board Youth Association is, they'll come to
(22:31):
us and then we will we will approach the board
or the president and talk to them about the situation
and see what's happening and see if we can assist
them with the situation as well.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Here's a good question I need to ask you, if
somebody's been around for a while, I've always had the
impression the kids playing sports at below the age of
ten in particular, is it really needed? And it should be?
And the reason being the early maturing situation where you've
(23:09):
got a kid that could be let's say seven years old,
but maturing wise, he or she can be four years
ahead of their time. And then you had the other
side where somebody's seven can be three or four years
(23:30):
under a late mature. So now you have them out
there playing in a competitive game. Is that saying crazy
to you?
Speaker 4 (23:44):
I think kids should be playing with their age group,
regardless of their skill level. You know, even though they
might be advanced physically, even talent wise, you know, mentally,
there's still the age that they are. And we try
to do the one program we do provide a little
(24:04):
structure too, and is youth football. And that's one that
we're real, real careful that you know, kids are playing
with their age group and and then not playing up
and a for the safety of the contact reasons, and
then be just the skill level. You know, you know,
(24:30):
if you have a kid that's you know, maybe well gifted,
you know, physically, but it doesn't necessarily translate that it'll
be a safe and positive environment for them if they
play up, you know, in a more competitive environment.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Yeah, Like I say, it just seems so unnatural to
have a programming you mentioned with So we have somebody
that is seven years old playing an a youth football
program that is really an eleven year old body wise,
(25:14):
So where do you think the coach plays plays that kid?
And so it's I know that some football programs and
maybe the football groups in your community create rules for
weight that they're allowed to weigh a certain weight or
they can't play a certain position. Do you find that
(25:36):
in the leagues there?
Speaker 4 (25:39):
So kind of how we're structured. We kind of have
a hybrid model that we have in house. It has
input from like American Youth Football, USA Football, a little
bit of Pop Warner, and I guess we call it
they used to call it the striper rule, or then
(25:59):
we call it a ninety number rule. And so for
each age group we have a weight limit and and
then we weigh them in at the beginning of each season.
They have you know, one time to make weight and
that's their their weight for the season. And then if
(26:20):
they do not make weight, if they're over the weight limit,
they wear a ninety number and they are limited to
the offense and defensive line regardless. There's no upper weight
limit where they can't play. I know there's some models
where you know, if you're too big, you can't play
(26:41):
at all, and I think sometimes that you know, you
may have a really big kid that needs the physical
activity and it would be beneficial. So we don't want
to discourage a kid playing because just because of size.
But what that anyway, it puts them on a ninety
(27:02):
number and they play offensive defensive line, they usually have
to be down on a three point stance and then
they're just because of contact and you know, full speed
of the game of football, especially on kickoffs and returns
and stuff like that, the ninety numbers are not allowed
to play on the kickoffs and stuff like that. So
that's kind of how we approach it. You know, there
(27:26):
used to be some limits of how many ninety numbers
you could play out on the field at a time,
and we've had variations over the years, but you know,
we want all kids to play regardless of where they're
out in their size. And you know acknowledging that, hey,
don't make the weight limit, but we don't want to
(27:47):
say you're too big to play at all on it.
And I know and those models are good too. Like
I said, it's for each community in each state. But
that's kind of how we approach the football model with
our program in the weight limit.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Yeah, Rich, I tell the story talking about again, I
go back to the whole problem with you football. Tell
the story about a mother who went to go pick
her child up. She told me this story. She went
had to go pick her child up for an appointment
(28:22):
at football practice, and when she got there, she couldn't
find her son. So she looked around and as the
coach had said, where's my son, he's not here. She said,
he's over in the car over there, and she said
in the car, said yeah. She ran over the car,
(28:45):
open the door. This is at the summertime. The heat
was on.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Turned up.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I wrapped in plastic wrap. You know what the coach
was doing, right, Rich?
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Yeah, So what happened is that woman rightfully. So got
our kid out of the car and went over to
the coach and screamed and said, I'm going to sue
you for almost having killed my son. And the guy said, well,
(29:25):
I'm just trying to get him to make weight. And see,
that's the mentality of youth football. You football coaches so
many times that they don't think they're only thinking about
winning and winning at all costs. So I know it's
(29:45):
a wreck person that's concerned you and every other recor
person across the country. So what do you think about
that story?
Speaker 4 (29:57):
I mean, I think that's a that's a story that
it's all too familiar growing up being a football player,
the old trash bags running hills and you know, twenty
thirty years ago. I mean I played back in the
early nineties and you know, that was kind of accepted,
it was okay. And just think of how many injuries
(30:23):
or you know, potential death that may have you know,
overheating and could have been prevented over the over the years.
It's a it's a practice that's all, you know, too
much accepted out there. I think still, you know, and
(30:43):
that went at all costs to never you know, jeopardize
the safety and well being of a player, and especially
with so many studies that I known, with Nate's Congress,
we've I believe it was Corey Stringer's dad or no,
Cory Stringer, you may know.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Who you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Yeah, the Maryland football player. I draw a B link
right now. And his organization has done a great job
with awareness of of and I think helping communities purchase
the supplies too, you know, help combat overheating and educating
coaches and stuff. And I think that that that mentality
(31:32):
is what hurts you sports and.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
And just the thing is it still goes on. You said,
get back back maybe in the nineties and whatnot. I
can assure you the same thing is going on at
the end of the summer where these coaches are out there.
So what I'm going to do is I want to
thank you and along with all the other recreation professionals
(32:00):
allart's the country who look at these situations and try
to create some avenue to put away with this kind
of behavior, whether it's ending programs that violate it in
any kind of way. Because in the end, like I say,
that's why Johnny hates sports. So again, Rich I want
(32:22):
to thank you very much for being here today and
good luck with everything you do in green Bill.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Thank you for having you have a great day, all righty.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
Why Johnny Hates Sports is a best selling book about
kids in sports. It chronicles why, at a very early age,
children are thrust into organized sports long before they have
the necessary skills to feel successful. Fathers and mothers are
asked to be their coach without having any training on
how to coach, and the leagues in which kids play
(32:58):
are governed by volunteers whose main focus becomes scoreboards, championships,
and all star games. Statistics show that close to seventy
percent of kids will have quit by the age of thirteen.
Most said it ceased to be fun, and that's why
Johnny Hates Sports.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Well, there you have it, folks for this weekend, and
I'm going to thank Rich again from Greenville, South Carolina
for being big on the show today. We'll be back
here again next Friday and look forward to seeing you
with us. Have a great weekend.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
This program is sponsored by sir Derff Publishing in the
interest for better sports for kids, Better kids for life.
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