Fast Fashion

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
You're listening to Why we Do what we do. Welcome
to Why We Do what we Do. I am your
Hot and Trending host Abraham.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
And I am your Project Runway host Shane Nice.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
We are a psychology podcast. We talk about the things
that humans and non human animals do, and sometimes we
talk about I guess the endeavors we engage upon which
have global implications.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
And today is that weird intersection of capitalism and fashion.
That is the joys of fast fashion, your sines, your
team moves, all the things that are gonna come up.
We're gonna talk about how we got here, what it is,
and all the things that may be a problem with it.
Also some benefits. Don't worry, we're gonna talk about benefits too.
We're gonna have an unbiased approach to this, completely.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
Biased, but it will it will have nuance though.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yeah, If you have found us for the first time,
you're like just checking us out and you've never listened
to us before, then welcome. We're glad that you you
are here, so stoked to have a new listener on
our roster of ones, and we'll expect to see you
around for years to come. Now, Yes, and if you're
a returning listener, then thank you for coming back. We
knew you'd be here because we were a product. Is
just that good?

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
We gamified it, We got you in, sucked you into
the process. You're in the canube. No, just kidding, but
either way, we appreciate you being here, Thank you for listening.
We hope that you enjoy what you hear in this
discussion today. And if you would like to support us,
you can join us on Patreon, pick up some merched
like and subscribe, leave a rating and review, or go
out and tell a friend. Word of mouth is such
a helpful way to get podcasts out in the world. Yes,

(01:48):
And if you're listening to this on the day that
it publishes, well, then it is September third, and it
is appropriate to acknowledge to you, dear listener, happy Global
Talent Acquisition Day. I M sure you are celebrating in
your own way.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, obviously. Yeah. The best way to celebrate is to
go into your LinkedIn and respond to all those people
who are trying to recruit you and sending you that
that copy and paste message in your end messages. Correct,
it is National Skyscraper Day. Huh.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Okay, those are the things. It is National Welsh rare
Bit Day. I don't know what that means, but maybe
Welsh people do.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
I don't know that anybody knows that means. Okay, it
is Penny press Day.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Okay, I think the penny's going away, so we'll see.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
It is International Enthusiasm Week. We sounded enthusiastic, so stoked,
so stoked.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
It is National Childhood Injury Prevention Week. Great, so make
sure those kids don't scrape their knees.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah, did that thing? Yeah, or get otherwise and even
more seriously injured.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
And you can help that by feeding them appropriately because
it is National Nutrition Week.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
It certainly is. And you can prevent injuries by paying
for care and whatnot and education. And you do that
because you get paid through payroll, which is something we're
gonna celebrate on National Payroll Week. There's a long way
to just say like, hey, we're getting paid.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah, possibly the opposite of that. It is play Days,
it certainly is. It's also Self University Week, which I
just got my honor APHD today. Yeah, you call that
Autodidact week maybe, yeah, unclear. It is Hispanic Heritage Month.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
It is It's also National Honey Month.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
It is National Spinal Cord Injury Awareness Month. Spinal cord
injuries are.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Bad, bad, yeah, real bad. And it is also National
Suicide Prevention Month, so make sure you reach out to
your folks and take care of them and get resources
for folks who need it.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
I believe the new number for that is nine eight eight,
but I'm a double check just to make sure. Yeah, yes,
it is nine eight eight in the United States. If
you're not in the United States, go look up whatever
the suicide Prevention hotline is and call that.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, all right.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
So those are holidays because it's September third, and that
means that we can talk about holidays. But we're actually
here to talk about another topic, which, as we mentioned
at the start of this, has to do with the
stuff that we put on our body. And I'm not
talking about other people or sense or anything right now.
We're talking specifically about the clothing that we put on
our body and how it gets there. And we look
around the world and the state of things as it

(04:24):
is right now, not just about fashion, but we just
look around and see what's going on, and we might
sort of wonder how we got here, imagine and think
back reflect on how different the world was only fifty
years ago. And I mean granted that like a lot
of people listening, I know that the age ranges fifty
is like at the top of where most of our
listeners are, if anyone's even in that bracket, right, And

(04:47):
that's like when you were born, so you might not
remember that, but like just understanding what was going on
in the world fifty years ago, like we can appreciate
what that was in the nineteen sixties and seventies, sure,
and how different of a world it was for people
back then. I actually think, if I remember correctly, it
is about since the nineteen sixties that the world population
has doubled. Like that's of all of human history. Yeah,

(05:11):
like tens of thousands of years that there have been humans,
the population doubled, and I think the last fifty or
sixty years, if I'm wrong, it's within the last century.
So like, yeah, it's very very recent that that kind
of growth has happened. Anyway, we look at very different
worlds than things were fifty years ago and kind of
wonder like how did we get here? And also should

(05:35):
we be here? There was a twenty twenty five hipsos
or ipsos and on how to say It poll that
was the survey people, and this is across thirty one
countries and found that the majority of people, it was
around two thirds of people that they surveyed think that
their country is on the wrong track, indicating that there's
sort of like a broad sense or experience of things

(05:58):
in the world's just not going very well.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, things are wrong, and that's kind of the general
the general sentiment for for lots of folks. But there
are a lot of factors that have contributed to the
profound changes that we feel endemic to who we are
now and have people feeling concerned about the future. There's
lots of factors, you know, besides the fact that we
just have all the information that we could possibly have
at our fingertips and all the things that go along

(06:21):
with that, there's lots of other things, right. Some of
those factors are economic instability, the ever widening gap between
the richest and poorest people, correct, politicians controlling the narrative
about the state of the world. US, the United States,
specifically the United States government. Sorry, it's like it's got
something except in my throat sounds like it and the
rapidly burgeoning climate crisis that is threatening global stability across

(06:43):
every imaginable topic. This surprise, this episode is doom and gloom.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
Kind of is it? Kind of is now? Capitalism is
kind of the great fire that brings all of these
issues to the boil. And one of the great pots
stirring unholy demon spawn of capitalism is fast fashion. That is,
fast fashion is one of the variables that contributes to
most and conceivably in some way or another, all of

(07:11):
these topics. And I'll concede that, as I mentioned at
the top of this, this is the kind of dramatic
and bias position to take on this right off the bat.
And we will bring more nuance to this discussion later
in the conversation, but just to acknowledge what we're coming
from on here, like, obviously we have a certain value
as it pertains to human life and well being in

(07:32):
the future of our species and the habitability of this planet. Sure,
and we see that one of the culprit driving the
despair and problems and suffering among humans is the system
that we've created called capitalism. But I also will humbly
accept the accuracy of the argument that capitalist apologist makes

(07:54):
that capitalism has led to the development of technologies and
medicines that have dramatically increased the length and quality of
human lives. Was that the only way to get there?
I doubt it, but it was how we got there.
So it's worth I think accepting that if we're going
to talk about this, and we want to try and
do so in a scientific manner, that we need to
consider that, Like, there are always multiple sides to every issue,

(08:16):
in every story, in every situation, and this is one.
And like, I think that we see that one of
the driving factors of human suffering is capitalism, and it
has also relieved human sufferings in many ways. So it
is a complex, wicked problem that we can't just change. Like,
we're not going to get rid of it. So understanding, like,
how do we leverage what we've got here, what is

(08:38):
the role that it plays, and what can we be
doing somewhat differently? Yeah, but yes, out of that we
get fast fashion, which exists because of it, and that
comes with it a whole new set of problems.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, so let's talk about that. So, although coined in
the nineteen hundreds, specifically nineteen nineties, this cool, this term
has starting to receive much more attention in the recent years.
So fast fashion refers to cheaply produced and cheaply priced
clothing that copies the current trends of fashion industry catwalks
and makes them available to consumers within weeks or even

(09:12):
days in some cases after their debut. It's an idea
essentially to sell low quality clothes that are quickly discarded
or replaced. And it's all about quantity over quality. And
I want to say too, like I'm going to I
want to kind of put a caveat at the top
of this, and I want to say that, as a
human being that exists on this planet, the one thing
that I cannot stand on any level is fashion. Do

(09:35):
not like fashion, do not care about it. I understand
that it's some people's bag, right like people love it.
There's an artistic part of this. I cannot stand it.
It is something that like, for some reason, gets under
my skin. So so as we go through this that
I just want to make sure that my bias is
clear that I hate all of this, let alone fast fashion.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
You and I are pretty aligned on that, and I
can also again I'll accept I think what I see
as the counter argument that people will point out, like
we are also choosing the clothes that we wear and
feeling like good and happy about the things that we
have chosen to wear, which for us, I think usually
is a band's T shirt, sure, and like a comfortable

(10:16):
pair of jeans or shorts and then some sandals. But
that was created by the fashion industry. So like we
still use and have and find some joy in the
output of this. But I do think that the where
you and I align on this probably has a lot
to do with the bourgeois. Yeah, it's the elitism that's
created by this. It's the like it's the better than

(10:38):
it's the I.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Love adaptable clothes, I love the I love accessibility in
the fashion space. I love when people are able to
do that and create clothing that people can choose and
wear and express. I think that part of the fashion
culture is amazing. I think I do realize that it's
just the elitism and the high like the you know,
it costs five thousand dollars for a purse, like get
the here, what are we doing? Like that's absurd?

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, And it's like because it has a logo on it,
it's like still cheaply made not that high quality of
a product, but like it has a logo on it,
and you can therefore charge a lot more for us.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
So I think our problem is capitalism.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
What a beautiful time to segue to an ad. You know,
we usually try and like sneak in a sort of
quippi segue to like rag on them, and instead what
we find is that in this particular topic, it just

(11:37):
really created the space. It was just like there, it
is like put an ad here.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Yeah, it was so natural, it was so natural, you know.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
All right, well let's get back on topic here. So
in nineteen nineties, this is what we're talking about sort
of really the rise of fast fashion here. So clothing
stored Zara, which I believe is a Spanish clothing store,
but it is all over the place. They had a mission.
This is I think in their mission statement, though it
didn't actually double check this, it's said in the articles
I was reading about this that it was their mission

(12:05):
to specifically get garments from the design and like the
stage to clothing stores within fifteen days a two week turnaround.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Where you know, this is something that people put time
and effort into designing for these sort of fashion seasons.
As you will, and that then that design ends up
on clothing store shelves in a mass produced way. And
the New York Times does get credit for coining the
term fast fashion to describe this production process. That's even
been expanded to like ultra fast fashion and as we'll

(12:37):
talk about later, slow fashion. But that's sort of the
idea here is is it started with Zara and this
mission to like get clothing garments from fashion design and
presentation to like in your hands within fifteen days, so
just a two week turnaround.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah, that makes sense. So when we talk about fast fashion,
there are a couple features that I think are important
to discuss. First, it's that we're talking about inexpensive clothing items.
They're easily accessible as far as purchasing for those clothing
items goes, so like you can find them and access
them really easily. Items that are or replicate those worn
by celebrities and fashion models. So it's kind of like, oh,
you saw this on a celebrity. By the way, you

(13:18):
can get this look for much cheaper here. Also, you
saw it last night here. It is today, huge variety
of designs, colors and looks and design changes rapidly as
often as about a week at a time, so you're
gonna get new, emerging, really rapid changeovers in fashion designs
that are available to you.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah, as a describement, before you used to have like
sort of fashion seasons. You'd have like a spring catalog
and a summer catalog and a fall catalog. And with
fast fashion they essentially industried or engineered in destroyed is
a really good compound word. Now that I want to
start using the engineered essentially fifty two micro seasons where
you get like a design of the week, and then

(13:58):
next week you get a new one, and then we
get any one in just a very high paced grind
on this the system. So anyway, those are some of
the features of fast fashion. If you've seen a clothing
item on like social media and then on someone, let's say,
and then there's an ad to purchase that item, you're
probably participating in the fast fashion model. And while you're

(14:21):
at it, you may as well throw a few more
things in the cart as you're shopping. And this business
model is kind of in line with the general idea
of fast fashion in many cases because you think of
like I think any online retailer is going to kind
of push this where it's like you're here for this,
but oh, by the way, check out this other thing,
and you're like, I might as well just have the
under the order be bundled together with all the stuff
that I want, which is I think how shopping more

(14:42):
broadly works, but that's very common in the fast fashion space,
is just to push as many different things on you
as they can at a pretty discounted price.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
A sort of related concept here too is this idea
of planned obsolescence, and it's probably worth us doing a
dive into that. Other podcasts have talked about this and
done a really good job, but you're here listening to us,
so presumably you maybe want to hear our take on that.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Right.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Anyway, planned obs lescence is kind of related to this
idea of fast fashion, less inherently than in some of
the other models that do depend on plant obs lescence.
And in case you're hearing that word over and over
again and being like, what are you talking about, it
just means that things are designed to break down or
need to be replaced quickly. Yeah, that's planned obs lescence.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
Also, those elements that we listened we're talking about inexpensive clothes,
they're really easy to get. They replicate the ones that
you see on celebrities. These are elements that you might
recognize as fast fashion, but there are a lot of
other characteristics of fast fashion that you don't necessarily see
as part of the process that we'll go ahead and
get into right now.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Yeah, so let's talk a little bit of history. So,
in an interview with experts in business people in the
field of fashion published by University of Pennsylvania, one of
the guests points out that in nineteen oh one, the
beginning of the nineteen hundred, American families on average spent
about fourteen percent of their income on clothing every year.
By nineteen twenty nine, an average American woman had nine

(16:07):
outfits in their closet, and as of a few years ago,
the average American woman owned one hundred and three pieces
of clothing, according to a company called Closet Made. And
this feels pretty low. I mean, like, and I'll speak
for myself because you mentioned the band T shirt thing.
I love a good T shirt.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
Here, I am like my hypocrisy coming out talking about
hating fashion but loving T shirts. Right, So, like, I
probably have like sixty T shirts. I would like that say,
like easily myself. The one hundred and three, I was like,
that feels like a low number. I'm like, I'm pretty
like and it says pieces of clothing. I'm like, even
if I care if I count like a pair of
socks where there's two things as one piece of clothing,

(16:47):
I'm like, I'm pretty confident I have over one hundred
and three of these, And like my collection of clothing
is a tiny, tiny, molecular size drop in the ocean
sized bucket next to my partner's collection of clothes. Yes, yeah,
because like my wife has quite a few articles of

(17:09):
clothing that are like very like they vary in lots
of different ways. Like I'm like, I need like three
button up T shirts, like not button up T shirts,
like button up shirts, dress shirts for yeah, maybe presenting
at a conference. The rest of my clothing and T shirts,
underwear of shorts, and maybe some work out gear.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah yeah, that's it. Is Like I've got a few
different pairs of shoes for different occasions. I've got like
work shoes and then sandals and hiking shoes and exercise shoes,
and then I've got you know, different socks, quite a
few band t shirts and then work tire like clothing
and shorts. And but I'm like, I'm fairly confident that
I've got over one hundred and three Yeah, so yeah,
yeah exactly. I never feel like I feel like the

(17:47):
number has got to be actually much higher usually and
maybe maybe we are unique, but I kind of doubt it.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah yeah, so maybe that's what we do. So right in, folks,
write in and tell us how many pieces of clothing
you have?

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Oh, I like this very good.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
It's out them for I want an accurate number. We're
gonna grab it.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, we need an accurate inventory. We will be auditing
your count. So okay, we're digging into the history here.
As we said, Zara was singled out as employing the
fast fashion business model and maybe one of the earliest
versions of implementation of this, but they are definitely not alone.
So fast fashion has essentially two major ways that it exists.

(18:26):
You have your brick and mortar stores, and you have
your entirely or almost entirely online stores. And most brick
and mortar stores, matter of fact, all of them as
far as I know, also have shopping online available, but
they don't necessarily depend on it the way that the
online stores like that Direct Circle space do their business.
So anyway, so in case you were wondering, if you're like, what,

(18:47):
who is doing fast fashion? Am I shopping there? The
answer is probably so. You have the brick and mortar
retail chains such as H and M Forever twenty one.
I never heard of this one, and I'm not sure
how to say it, but it's either you say the
letters or it's pronounced u li kilo clo. I guess
unique low unique clow that sure, let's call it that

(19:09):
you and iql o. Probably people are hearing this being
like you dummies, that's like the most profitable thing. I've
never heard of it.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
It's not our thing.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
It's not our thing.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
It's not our thing.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Primark, Urban Outfitters and Mango. So those are sort of
the brick and mortar retail spaces that operate in fast fashion,
and then there are the gigantic online retailers that also
play this game. This includes and I did look up
the prounciation on this. It's called Sheian. That's how you
actually say it, timu lulu and a sauce. I think

(19:39):
how you say that one. So these are the sort
of online retailers where they exist primarily online. There are
some that have like a store here and there, Like
there's actually some stores that are owned by Amazon where
you can like purchase Amazon items from those stores. But like,
for all intents and purposes, Amazon is an online only store, sure,
and that essentially the case with these ones that are

(20:02):
either primarily or entirely online.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah, they probably like pull from certain manufacturers or they
have their own manufacturing and stuff like that. So there's
it's lots of meta contingencies, baby, Yeah, Like it's a
lot of interlocking contingencies. Y'all don't even know. So let's
hear about numbers though, because I think that like we
know that these things exist, but we don't really have
the scope or breadth of what's going on. Right. So,
from two thousand and three twenty fourteen, so in eleven years,

(20:28):
clothing production doubled and the per capita number of garments
purchased increased by sixty percent, and estimated three hundred million
people are involved in some part of the process from
design to production to shipping to sales. Three hundred million
people in this industry. It's a lot of people that
a lot of so many people that's like at.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
Least as many as RFK Junior is going to kill
with his terrible policies.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
I on one hundred percent, absolutely, like that's the lowest
bar for what he's aiming for. Now. Around twenty six
to forty percent of consumers in the UK and respectively
shopped at fast fashion retailers in twenty twenty three, so
twenty six percent in the UK forty percent in the
United States. In twenty twenty three, fast fashion was estimated
to be worth a whopping one point seven trillion dollars

(21:14):
as an industry, one point seven trillion dollars one point
seven trillion trillion with a t yeh okay. For perspective,
the US military spending budget, specifically line defense, is about
nine hundred and ninety seven billion dollars in twenty twenty four,
more than most other countries put together. We already know
military spending in the United States is kind of like
an absurd astronomical amount, and fast fashion is worth more

(21:39):
than the US military spending.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yeah, over seven hundred billion dollars more. Yes, yes, that's
so many zeros. That's so many zeros. Like that amount
of money is crazy and really difficult to wrap your
head around, right, I mean you think about like let's
just say, you're like, well, it's only about a trillion
to one point seven million. I'm like, hold, hold on,
I want to pause for a second. Imagine that extra

(22:04):
seven hundred billion dollars went to you. Would you feel
like that wasn't very much or would you feel like
that was maybe a lot?

Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Like that's the kind of numbers where like, even if
you spent six hundred billion dollars, you'd still have one
hundred billion dollars less. Right, there is nothing you couldn't
buy with that amount of money. Yeah, so like, yeah,
that amount of money could solve like the world's problems

(22:32):
if it was invested in those things instead of this.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Particular industry, instead of clothing.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah. So but yeah, like that's that's where we find ourselves,
is like, that is where money is being spent and
on ads marketing. All right, So we just threw a
lot of numbers at you. There, numbers that are hard
to wrap our heads around, but suffice it to say,

(22:57):
this is a a collaws sol a colossal industry. Yes,
is fast fashion.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
It absolutely is now, one could argue, and the retail
giants who definitely have vested interest in influencing your opinion
about this. Will agree about this argument. The fast fashion
has made clothing more accessible to a wide range of people.
That is to say, people with little money are more
able to be able to afford more clothing, and in
doing so, they can participate in the minimum societal pressures

(23:24):
for expectations around appearance. One could also argue that the
economic problems created by these retailers, and the fact that
their clothes are cheaply made and need to be replaced
more frequently, have actually become part of the reason for
people to find themselves impoverished in the first place. So
there is kind of a you know, pro and con here, Like, yes,
people can afford clothing more readily, they can access stuff

(23:45):
more easily. However, they have to replace it more often
because it is cheaply made.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
I don't know if anyone's done the numbers on this,
but I actually would be willing to bet that in
many cases you end up spending more money buying more
items of clothing because they wear out fast. Sir, then
you would bind a r item of clothing that costs
a lot more but lasts a lot longer. Yeah, but
I don't know, Like, I'm sure the numbers like that exist,

(24:10):
and it's probably true in some spaces and less true
in others. Probably depends on how aggressively you use that clothing.
But I did find that the average number of uses
for a garment was seven times before it ends up
in a landfill, which is a pathetically small number of times. Like,
they're right, I will say with the with the clothing
that I wear, it gets worn a lot more than

(24:30):
seven times.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah. I wear my clothes until they fall off.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
Sometimes they get worn seven times a week, you know.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah, that's just absolutely I won't tell you which parts though.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
That's right, just the underwear, OK, just kidding, just kidding,
all right, anyway, that's I think this is part of
the nuance here is considering that like fast fashion has
made clothing cheaper and more available to people who just
have very little mo And that's a reasonable argument. I
do think we'd say, like, there are drawbacks to this,

(25:05):
and possibly it has results in people spending more overall,
but it has made clothing more accessible to people who
just don't have very much money. So that's fair, that's reasonable.
We cak accept that one could also argue that the
staggering number of people employed by the fashion industry, the
fast fashion industry specifically, has contributed significantly to things like

(25:26):
economic growth. It's created thousands or even millions of jobs
for people who want and need those jobs. And to
be fair, this is pretty accurate, Like that is an
outcome of thish and we'll get to some of the
other impacts of this later because again it's not so
cut and dry, and it's not like those jobs would
just go away completely if things move to a less

(25:46):
aggressively paced model. But fast fashion has created a huge
amount of economic growth and employment opportunities for many people.
Like that is just an accurate statement. So again we're
I appreciating the nuance a topic like this. That is
a thing to consider that people I think would argue, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
One could also cynically point out that this is giving
people choices and that the system wouldn't work if people
didn't find value in using it. So basically is just
saying like, hey, you know what, if people didn't like this,
they wouldn't actually attend to this, or they wouldn't participate
in this, it wouldn't exist. Yeah, it wouldn't exist. But
this is basically the drug dealer's argument, right, like is
it really worth going in there, because like, yeah, sure
choices are available, but like if you really think about

(26:27):
the mechanisms by which this choice works, like it is
a little bit like I don't want to say, I
don't want to say manipula, that's not the word, but
like it is like at the very least we understand
behaviorally how somebody may decide to make a choice in
this space for the same reason that people may make
a choice for their drug of choice and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah, I mean it's like, you know, if people didn't
like my drugs, they wouldn't buy them. I'm not twisting
the arm, Like, well sometimes you are, but like let's yeah, yeah,
besides side that, like the problem is like you got
them involved in the system, and like this is now
the system that's available to them. So like I don't
know if it's worth digging into a whole lot further,
but yes, the system exists because people engage with that system,

(27:06):
but it is exploiting several things to be a system
that can sustain itself. Right, So anyway, we'll talk more
about these as we get into some of the impacts
of this overall thing if you start trying to find
information on fast fashion. So let me back up. What
we were just describing in these arguments were essentially the
I think, the nuanced aspects of fast fashion, where it's like,

(27:29):
it's not black and white bad as we sort of
started off by alluding to. Right, But if you do
start trying to find information here, you will quickly find
that fast fashion has drawn considerable criticism from a wide
range of sources, right, And these can be you can
sort of broadly classify the types of criticism that it
is drawn in terms of its energy and materials used

(27:51):
to create the products, so what it takes to make
it work, the waste and pollution created by these products,
and then the sort of societal impacts and concerns about
laborers and workers. So those the three broad categories. Is
resources used to make it, pollution and harm and waste
created from it, and the people who were affected by it.

(28:13):
So let's go ahead and take them in that order,
starting with the sort of sustainability of the raw materials.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah, so speaking of raw materials, fast fashion is the
second largest consumer industry of water after agriculture, which we
need to strike the second.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Largest second largest of everything in the world, the second
largest after farming. Yeah yeah, after making food for ourselves.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yeah, Like, let's talk about this for a second. So
it takes about seven hundred gallons of water to make
a single cotton shirt, and over two thousand gallons of
water to make a pair of genes.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
There's a lot here and those variety of reasons for that,
but that's essentially what it sort of averages out to.
And further, it requires a tremendous amount of cotton, which
requires land and of course water to grow, and then
energy to process. And of course it takes a huge
amount of energy to package, store, and ship these things
to retail box stores or to your front door, and

(29:12):
that requires fossil fuel burning. Also, if you're not using cotton,
or if you're using blends of cotton with other things,
it requires synthetic materials, which are also largely derived from
fossil fuels. Different polyesters and whatnot will come from those.
So we're talking about just like a tremendous amount of
resources needed to propel this industry or even just maintain

(29:33):
this industry, Like the amount it takes to package and
ship those things, the amount of fossil fuels used to
even make the fabrics that are used to make the
dyes that are used, and the raw materials used to
make those, including cotton and other things. Like, it's so so,
so so much like a crazy, unfathomably large amount of

(29:54):
raw material goes into creating this industry.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
Yeah, and speaking of all the raw material and all
the things that goes into it, let's how about waste
and pollution. So, if you haven't heard of microplastics yet,
sorry to ruin your day. I'm gonna give everybody fair warning.
If you have testicles, they're probably in them.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
According to some studies. Now, without getting too deep into
the science, microplastics are what they sound like. They are
plastics that don't break down. Plastic doesn't break down specifically,
it separates into microscopic plastic residue that is now so
ubiquitous that it is found in virtually every place that
has ever been looked that we've ever looked for it in,
including your brain. Yes, yes, your brain, you have microplastics

(30:35):
in your brain. Twenty seventeen report from the IUCN estimated
that thirty five percent of all microplastics come from simply
laundering synthetic materials such as polyester. I mean I wear
nothing but polyester, so I'm probably a high contributor to this.
Like all my T shirts are polyester and also shiny.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
So fair fair, So yeah, like that's the microplastics are
everywhere one of the huge contributors of this. Like if
thirty five percent comes just from laundering those materials, how
much comes from making those materials are when they end
up in landfills?

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Right?

Speaker 1 (31:11):
And yeah, microplastics are everywhere now, right everywhere, right everywhere.
Everywhere they've looked on planet Earth, they have found them.
They found them in clouds, they have found them in
Arctic ice, they have found them in like fish and
deep sea fish. Yah, virtually everywhere everywhere they've looked, they
found them. So yeah, they are inescapable at this point, yep. Absolutely, Now,

(31:33):
the basic pollution, even aside from microplastics, that comes from
the fast fashion industry is destroying lakes and rivers if
it doesn't use up all the water first, for like
for the industry, right, so it is, if it doesn't
use up all the water, then it often just destroys
it outright, And this actually has already happened, So I
found this horrible story. There's this place called the oralc

(31:57):
or Aral Sea. Maybe it was once the fourth largest
inland c in the world, but due to diversion, largely
for the production of textiles, the sea has dried up
to only a fraction of its original size, leaving behind
essentially a desolate, toxic wasteland and destroying the fishing industry there,
poisoning the local communities from the pesticides and chemicals that

(32:19):
are used in those processes. And there's just, yeah, this
empty wasteland that like used to be teeming with life
and abundance and people thriving in that space, and now
they're dying from the industries that have sucked up all
the water.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah. Now, the average American consumer is estimated to generate
eighty two pounds of textile waste every year, which is
you know, you've already got this waste issue. That's a problem.
And let's take this step further. Right, So, according to
the UN Environmental Program, fast fashion is responsible for more
CO two emissions than all and I want to I

(32:56):
don't want to. I want to make sure that we're
catching this. All international flights and maritime ships combined, combined
fast Fashion. Let me say that again, just so we're
all on the same page. Fast Fashion is responsible for
more CO two emissions than all international flights and maritime
ships combined.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
That's a lot.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
That's astouniding huge amount. It's estimated to grow by another
sixty percent by twenty thirty, so in five years, it's
going to grow by more than half. In addition, while
many of these companies were either required to or wanted
to meet goals to reduce emissions with cuts the sustainability
programs and initiatives such as those being carried out by
the Trump administration, basically no one is on track two

(33:36):
to meet those goals, and is no longer even trying
to really reach those sustainability goals because why would they.
There's no incentive to anymore, because current administrations make it
so that they don't really need to or want to
or care about it.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
And further, they've like kind of deincentivized engaging meaningfully with that.
And beyond that, like, I think that some of them
have seen what's happening in the current administry and taken
that as a sign that that's what people want. Yeah,
they're like, I guess people don't care about sustainability anymore.

(34:10):
Let's just stop trying, Like if nobody cares, we're not
going to care for sure. Yeah, and so that I
think has been some orientation to that we've seen from
other people. But of course you care about the sustainability
of this podcast by listening to these very cool ads.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
Oh so cool.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
All right. So we've talked essentially about the raw material
issue that goes into trying to create fast fashion. We've
talked about the waste and pollution that comes out of
fast fashion, which is substantial across the board on both ends.
But there's also many societal impacts to consider here. An
estimated eighty percent of apparel is made by women, specifically
between the ages of eighteen and twenty four years old. However,

(34:57):
the US Department of Labor also found evidence of for
and child labor and fast fashion industries in Argentina, Bangladesh, Brazil, China, India, Indonesia, Philippines, Turkey, Vietnam,
and other countries like there are people that are either
forced to work or there's child labor, which I could
also consider being forced to work in those spaces that

(35:18):
are responsible for producing those clothes, which is obviously a
sort of humanitarian problem.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
Yeah, further to save on costs. The working conditions may
be very poor, can be very poor or unsafe. In
twenty thirteen and eight, story building that housed many textile
factories collapsed, killing one hundred and thirty four workers and
injuring twenty five hundred more. If you didn't hear about it,
it's probably because it happened in Bangladesh, but that doesn't
make it any less scary or tragic. This is significantly

(35:44):
concerning when it comes to this type of thing.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah, So that's over a thousand people that are dyed
and two thousand more who were significantly injured in this.
And it's like all in the all the name of
like not building appropriately so that we can save on costs, right,
and it's currently being propped up by the fast fashion industry. Now,
thinking about like the workers here, many of the laborers

(36:07):
in the fast fashion space are paid essentially in what's
what you call like some people call widget work or
it's like piecemeal work. Essentially, it's paid per how much
they make. This isn't everyone, but there are places where
this exists.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Now.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Working full time people in this system can earn up
to about two hundred dollars a week. Now, if they
were to follow a two paycheck or a two week
paycheck system, that means earning about four hundred dollars per
paycheck or about eight hundred dollars per month. If you
just keep doing the math, you take eight hundred and
multiply that by twelve. You get nine six hundred dollars

(36:41):
per year. Yep, not a lot. Yeah, And granted lease
are in you know, different countries where they have different
economies and that sort of thing. But like that is
very very little money.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah. Like specifically in Bangladesh, which is the second largest
exporter of garments, workers are paid just one hundred and
thirteen dollars per month or just about one three hundred
and fifty six dollars per year. So again you're talking
about very very low wages in places where labor is exploited.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
Yeah, they're making in a year what many people would
expect to make like per paycheck in a place like
the United States.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Yeah, depending on where they.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
Work, you know, their level of education or not. But anyway,
now another problem here is again this has to do
with costs. There's generally a lack of oversight or lack
of concern for safety of their employees, and that has
resulted in at least reports of and these have got
to be underrepresented, Like there's no way it's this isn't
a problem. I think this underrepresents the problem. Yeah, but

(37:37):
those reports of sexual harassment and sexual assault on workers,
and a lot of those does go unreported, unpunished, and
unprevented or addressed in any capacity. And remember, most of
these workers are young women, right, who are in many
cases forced to do this labor and in some cases
they're desperate to just have some kind of income, right,
So it's also like a dangerous space for them because

(37:58):
they don't care for their employees very much. Again, because
it's cheaper not.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
To right, Right, So we have to ask the question
of like why, like why do we do this? Like
why is this an industry? And you may have already
gotten some ideas for what you think might be going on,
and you're probably right, and you're probably right, but you know,
at the end of the day, like our show is
called why we do what we do, not why we
look at statistics and talk about numbers, right, So let's

(38:21):
actually talk about why we do this, and we're going
to start with the companies, right, Like, why do companies
do this? So at some point during the twentieth century,
enterprising little kers discovered that they could make a lot
more money by building things that need to be replaced
more often, by enabling or requiring subscription based products instead
of single sale products, and by pushing for quantity and
novelty over quality. So you kind of have a shift

(38:44):
in what you can describe as like values and goals
around what is being produced.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
Yeah, it's just it's just make more, like that's it.
Yeah and one and those are ways to do it.
And fast fashion is kind of like the most extreme
version of this so far, we don't like things could
presumably get worse. Yeah, So why do companies do it?
Well because they can make a terrifying amount of money
and money for their shareholders. So like, if that's what
you're thinking, is like why do they do it because

(39:09):
it makes them rich? Then yeah, that is one of
the reasons why they do it, Like the money will
drive it.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yeah, and beyond just making a lot of money, they
can dominate and crowd out large swaths of the market. Right,
So fast fashion company, Sheen Shying, Shane Shanan, Shan shan
is now the second most popular shopping website in the
world period. They are second only to Amazon, who obviously
sells everything. And many independent manufacturers and sellers have either

(39:35):
been acquired or driven out of business by the pricing
of these retailer giants who can outcompete with their prices,
even when those companies had to peer your products and
better customer service.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Yeah, when those smaller independent companies would have actually been
better for the consumer. Right if they were put out
of business or acquired by those wealthier companies, then that
business no longer exists, at least not in the way
that it did, and so that of course threatens a
lot of things. But it is an outcome of this
that allows then those companies to have greater control of

(40:09):
the market still. Now, besides the amount of money and
market shares that they control, their size and finances grants
them considerable power to directly drive and influence markets. They
can also influence fashion prices and even attitudes about these things.
They get to control the supply and the demand. Yeah,
like kind of not unlike the jewelry industry in that way,

(40:30):
Like they control both the supply and the demand, But
like that's very much Like with the size and power
of these companies, they get to control the entire economy
and the way that they want to. Then there are
parameters inside of that, like they won't be able to
get away with anything, but they do have a lot
of power to flex to have those things shift in
a way that's favorable to them and their shareholders, which

(40:51):
is ultimately the thing they care about most.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
Right right now. Further, the systems that exist are too
fractured or corrupt to enact policies that would protect consumers,
to protect workers, and to improve the environments from the
harm that is caused by the relentlessness of the fast
fashion industry. Like there's just so many kind of moving
parts that are just not talking to each other or
resolving issues that impact one another in any sort of

(41:14):
meaningful way. It's just too disjointed.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Yeah, it's complex. I mean, they get crazy amounts of money,
like more so than we can even wrap our heads around.
They have power and control over the entire market, industries,
and people's behavior, and there is nothing that would stop
them from doing or there's little there's little that would
stop them from doing these things. Not nothing. There are
places that do have some policies and procedures that help
against this, but they just don't wield as much power, right, So,

(41:38):
like that's why they do it. It's because of those factors,
all right, now, consumers, why does this work on us
as consumers? I'll start with the easy one. It's cheap,
that's why. Right in a world where our survival has
generally been relegated to currency, prices are nearly universal and
their ability to drive consumer behaviors. For some of us,

(41:58):
it's a necessity, like we just have to spend as
little as possible to get by. For some of us,
it's a practicality. For some of us it is a choice.
But even no matter where you fall on the spectrum,
would you rather buy a sweater for eighty dollars when
you could get something nearly identical for twenty five dollars?
Of course not, You're not going to do it, right,
None of us would, and particularly when you can't even

(42:20):
tell which one of them is actually better, Like, just
because it comes from this mom and pop shop, does
that mean that it was made with any better quality
than the one that can get for a quarter of
the price online? Right, I don't know, Like we don't
know they may have come from the exact same manufacturer,
So why would we pay so much more for something
that has the same problem as the one that I

(42:42):
can get for less of the price. So, like we
essentially it comes down to economics drive our ability to survive. Unfortunately,
sadly that is a reality of it. And so that
when we need to be careful with that money that
we do have for things like purchases, for example, for
things such as clothing, then we're going to choose the

(43:04):
cheaper option. And also another thing here is that we
can't necessarily tell whll the more expensive option is actually
even better quality. So I think those are important considerations
in terms of consumer behavior.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Here, right. And also many of these companies have found
ways to gamify their shopping processes. Many of these are
specifically app driven platforms. Team Moose specifically uses a truly
obnoxious shenanigan to force you to spend a bunch of
money on things you don't even want. So essentially, when
you log into the app or the website for the
first time, you can't search for what you are there

(43:37):
to find. First ship to scroll through a list of
steeply discounted products that may or may not be relevant
to you. Along the way, you'll tap on free gifts,
further discounts, or free items. You keep playing, you'll get
offers to redeem hundreds or even thousands of dollars worth
of discounts. After doing this for about an hour, if
you haven't made about four different purchases, none of which
were the reason that you were even on the website

(43:58):
to begin with, you may be able to search for
the thing that you are there to buy to begin with.
So like, that's kind of like a strange it takes
you so long to get to the thing that you
want to get to.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
Yeah. Yeah, it's this whole process of like spin the
wheel and get another discount, and scroll through this list
and choose eleven things, and if you do that, then
you unlock this discount and then oh, because you did that,
you actually unlocked a bonus round of discounts. And it's like, yeah,
so you've made a purchase. Then you made another purchase,
Then you made another purchase. Then you go through another
round of purchases, and then they're like, all right, now
search our website for things that you might want to buy.

(44:29):
I'm like, I just spent two hundred dollars, right, and
none of them were the thing I was here for, right,
And like, granted I got a lot of stuff that
is pretty steply discounted, but like, yeah, that was my
experience with it. I was like, I went through it once.
I was like, wow, that is a lot of crazy shenanigans.
I went through a second time and I'm like, never again.
I don't have the patience for this, Like this is
just not worth my time or effort to try and navigate.

(44:50):
So I personally am done with it. But that that
is a way that they can rope people in. Is
that sort of gamified process where it becomes sort of
can you you outmaneuver the system to get these crazy discounts?
And the answer is absolutely not, but you might think
that you can. Yeah, so you're led to believe it's possible.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yeah, and it's not like that. I mean, like you,
the more information you know, you can just choose not
to participate in it.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Yeah. Yeah, you can choose not to participate in these
ads either.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
That's true.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
All right, So we're back. We're talking about how the
consumer behavior is influenced by these processes. One of them
is that it's cheap. One is that they have gamified
the process. Another aspect of fast fashion is the number
of choices, and we've talked about it before on this show.
Choice is a relatively important thing to humans, not invariably

(45:50):
and not universally, but like broadly speaking, we tend to
prefer choice. We tend to prefer choice, and in the
fast fashion space we encounter nearly every conceivable design choice
or style. And furthermore, it's presented as like a limited
time opportunity, like this style will go away and be
replaced in a week or a month or something like that,

(46:12):
So you better make that choice now because you won't
be able to make that choice in the future. And
that fear of that fomo is something that can also
drive this. But anyway, we get a crazy number of
choices with some limitations around the kind of things we
might select, and that allows us to really curate and
cultivate a look that is unique to us. Cognitive psychologists

(46:33):
that I found in this space they like to say
things like we see clothes as an extension of ourselves,
whatever the that means. But the point I think that
they're trying to make, if I'm being generous here and
I think the way that I could interpret how we
think about this with the number of choices and the
unique look that we can cultivate for ourselves is that

(46:57):
we can we are given the opport need to recruit
a lot of social reinforcement for our wardrobe choices by
being unique in some way. If we're all wearing the
same outfit, like it's you're not likely to encounter a
lot of people who are like, hey, nice shirt, Like yeah,
it's your shirt too, Yeah, because we're all wearing the
same clothes.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
So there is an aspect of this that comes from
the number of choices and differences in styles and designs
allows us to stand out somewhat uniquely and create sort
of an image that we would like to represent, and
then we do, in fact retrieve some social recognition from
that people commenting on our clothes or reacting to it

(47:39):
in some way we might be trying to specifically evoke
and almost counter response and people like recoiling from the
fashion choices we've made. But like, that is a choice
that you get, Like you get to make that decision
and present yourself in that way. And fast fashion is
arms dealer. They don't care where you're on the spectrum
as long as you're buying their stuff.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
Yeah, they're playing both sides. So further conversations around fast
fashion are sure to gardner some eye rolls and dismissal
from people who don't want to think about the role
that they play in these issues. And that's fine, I
get it. Even mentioning fast fashion can create a context
in which people feel that they're being attacked as bearing
some personal responsibility for the situation created by fast fashion.
And we have to kind of ask the question, like,
what are the ethics of participating in the system. Should

(48:19):
consumers bear responsibility for the flaws of the system? And
I think we can say, of course, not exclusively, right,
but we should not pretend that our individual choices have
no effect just because it is a small effect the
trillions of dollars these companies make our trillions of individual choices.
It's kind of like dieting, Like one skittle doesn't make

(48:40):
a difference in your overall health or weight, but if
you choose to eat candy every one to two minutes
of your waking day, the compounding effect will be real.
And you know there are ways to be able to
access I would say cheap clothing in a more meaningful way,
Like there's lots of like thrift stores, and there are
places where you can access goods at similar, if not

(49:00):
better prices. That are you know, instead of that you know,
set of clothing being thrown in the trash and stuff
like that too. So like, I think that it's worth
kind of like evaluating other options to find cheap, accessible clothing.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
And we will actually speak some more specifically about what
those are. But yeah, as a brief summary here, like
with consumer behavior, the things that I think are relevant
are understanding that it's cheap. The companies have gone out
of their way to gamify our shopping experiences to influence
us to make more purchases than we even want or
need to. We have a huge number of choices, which
allows us to recruit some social recognition for our unique

(49:35):
appearance and choices, and speaking out about this actually is punished,
like trying to have a counter opinion to the idea
of fast fashion is likely to result in some rejection
from the people around us in society writ large. Also,
I don't know if I mentioned this, but it's cheap.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Yeah, I know, did you say that? Did you say
that yet? That it's cheap. It's cheap.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
We may should probably say it again, it's cheap.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
Doesn't cost very much to the consumer who's purchasing. Right
to the world at large, it can cost somebody their lives.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
Cost everything. Yeah, but yes, those are the things I
think to understand about the consumer behavior aspect of this.
I do think there are broadly more things that we
could talk about the systems that are involved here and
the behaviors that do contribute to those systems. But I
do think like it's worth moving on to understanding sort
of where the future is on this. And the systems
are not going to be so super different from the

(50:26):
things that we've already talked about with respect to industry
and consumers and like how those systems operate. You just
get into sort of larger political systems and they're very
similar to like and overall sort of contingencies that govern those.
So right, let's think then about the future of fast fashion.
Do we have a positive outlook a negative outlook? Are

(50:48):
we just trying to describe where it's going? It does
depend on your perspective right now, For the shareholders of
fast fashion companies, the future is bright man. Yeah, that
looks good. Current political trends are demanding less or no
oh accountability of perpetrators for the consequences of fast fashion,
and this means that they can make more money less
with less oversight. They can hurt as many people as

(51:09):
they want. They'll know one will say boom, and they
can just have all the power and influence in the world.
And we've seen this happen not only with fast fashion,
but with others where you have corrupt politicians who essentially say,
you give me money, I give you privilege. And that
is where we find ourselves currently. Yeah, and so the
future for them financially great future for mankind different story.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
Yeah, not so much. Now. Some retailers are actually trying
to make a difference. So Patagonia has long had a
mission to responsibly produce high quality garments intended to last
a long time. Their prices are vomit inducing, but they
are really trying to do the right thing with their production.
I subscribe to a magazine called The Flow Trip. Historically
it was called Whalebone, and they always bring up some

(51:53):
of the sustainability initiatives that Patagonia uses and kind of
brings that up because it's very like, you know, life, earth, nature,
like you know, stuff like that, and so they do
some cool stuff with with do you talk about patagony
and some of the work they're doing. It's pretty cool,
expensive but cool.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Yeah, it seems like this is a value driven company.
You go and you look at their prices and they're like, oh,
I wonder how much that jacket is? Three hundred dollars.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
Yeah, and again why I hate fashion.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Yeah, but like it's it is in part because, and
I would say, if not entirely, because they are trying
to do the right thing. And it's like they are
they are paying more for higher quality things that are
designed to last longer and not just get thrown in
the trash after seven uses or less. They're intended to
last a long time. So I think they're an investment
in something that is supposed to sort of stick around.

(52:42):
And not that I'm I'm trying to campaign for them.
I'm just trying to recognize that there are companies in
the space that are being fairly successful who are pushing
towards trying to be more sustainable in their approach. Sure,
other retailers are trying to address the motivation to have
you unique clothing by offering things like more customization of

(53:03):
their products that are unique to you. So their hope
is that this will kind of address the aspect of
fast fashion, that is, you get a unique look because
you can sort of custom make the things that you get.
And their goal here is that this will increase customer
satisfaction and decrease things like returns, resales and things just
being thrown away. And actually one company I found who's

(53:23):
really pioneering this is a Didas. They're really trying to
create some lines of products that are more customized with
the goal in mind that those are not things that
are sold that are thrown away, and they're not things
that are returned, and that they are they stick around longer,
so like maybe if we have this more customized to you,
you'll hold on to it longer, which again I think

(53:44):
is a cool initiative that they seem to be trying
to spearhead. And there are other companies too, but that's
just one that I saw pop up right away.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Right right right now. For the rest of the world,
the future is pretty grim. This is so close to
the actual story the lower acts, it's almost comical. They're
literally destroying our only home and telling us that we
should be so lucky to live in their muckety muck,
and most people believe them. And the truth is that
we don't all need needs.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
We don't. It's true. Yeah, I mean honestly, Like it
feels so crazy similar to that, it's like our planet
is being absolutely annihilated by these processes. They're like, well,
lucky you you get to have our product. I'm like, yeah,
but our planet.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
But I can't drink anything.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
Yeah, when we're all gone, who you're planning to sell
this to? Like all that's left is a gigantic landfill
that was once a planet that's covered in all these
old clothes, and your long dead and everyone you care
about is long dead, and there's nothing left here, Like
we've just destroyed what there could have been. Or like
Wally is like another ample like Y's. That's sort of

(54:52):
where they're headed. Although we don't get to escape this
planet and go live on a cruise, a giant intergalactic
cruise ship forever now until our planet heals itself. Now,
we just die along with the planet.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
Yeah. You know what sucks too, is that probably on
like Timu machine or whatever, Like there's probably a shirt
that says, unless yeah, it's just just just to like
rub it in. Like I'm sure some designer was like,
you know what this is. This is as close to
its need as we're going to get.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
So unless on a shirt somewhere, Yeah, unless we play
more ads. All right, we're back. We're kind of at
the wrapping up the end here, I think, you know,
just talking about the future of where things are going
and what we can expect here A Shane was mentioning

(55:37):
before there are some initiatives to push for more shopping
at like second hand retailers, trying to give these things
a little extra life. You'll probably actually find some of
the more high quality products that will survive several uses
and then being sold. But yes, these things exist, and
this is actually proved to be a bit more popular
with the gen zers, interestingly, because they're trying to They're

(56:00):
actually looking to reduce their participation and the fast fashion
industry that's trapped them in this very bleak future they
see before them, because they are the ones who are
sort of on the cusp of having to deal with
the worst outcomes and consequences of this. In addition, there
are many companies and nonprofit organizations that are striving to
support various projects such as recycling, upcycling of previously used clothing,

(56:24):
and there are even some that try to subsidize higher
quality clothing so that those higher quality garments can compete
with those fast fashion prices and therefore be more sustainable
but also affordable. So there are people out there who
are trying to do the work, like they're fighting the
good fight. Yeah, really pushing for it. But man, they

(56:44):
are small, small peanuts next to the colossal goliath that
is the fast fashion industry.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
One point seven trillion dollars.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
Yes, it's a lot of trillion dollars.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
It's it's a lot of trillion dollars. It's more trillion
dollars in oliver. I could ever fath them.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
Yeah, Now there are things you can do because, like
I think, I think it's important when we do share
like doom and gloom and like bad you know, bad
juju and stuff like that, I think it's important to
kind of go back and say, like, let's talk about
what we can do to start improving at least and
have an individual impact. So first we can vote for
policies that enact laws to protect and also politicians that
will enact laws to protect workers, consumers, and the environment.

(57:24):
Vote for representatives who can paign on these issues and
follow through on those issues, not just campaign on them,
but follow through on them. Their say do correspondence is
so critically important in these spaces.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Yeah, and a lot of times, like if they're they're
a new candidate, then we don't know what they're going
to do. But like if they promise one thing and
get into the office and don't do that thing, then
vote them out, like vote on their competitor next time
that they're up for reelection. But yeah, I mean the
idea is we want to if nothing else, we do,
want to create a space where people are talking about
it and so that this becomes an issue that they

(57:59):
can campaign on, I mean that people will respond to.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
So that's one thing you can do is vote, is
get out there and vote in places where you're able
to vote. I know that the United States is not
really democracy anymore, but there are democracies out there where
people get to vote. And so the way if you
can then do that thing. Yeah, Another is to try
and reduce your overall consumption habits. I saw a quote
that was like a really good way to think about
this is that less is more rather than buy just

(58:25):
to buy, see if you can withhold, try and make
the choice that like, if you don't need it, don't
necessarily get it, yeah, or to you know again, invest
in the thing that is higher quality, that will last
a little bit longer, and then just not buy as often.
And I know that that doesn't work for all people,
but if you can in the space is where you can,
and you want to help try and push things in
the right direction, then just try and reduce overall consumption

(58:49):
habits where possible.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
Yeah, you can also embrace sustainability habits such as recycling, upcycling,
purchasing sustainably made products. There's quite an industry for this.
And I say industry, I just mean like there's a
space for this, Like you you know, for the neighborhood
that I live in, there's a local community garden, which
is also something that's helpful for sustainability practices, right, Like
there's a pretty rigid recycling routine here. Like there's stuff

(59:13):
that we can do on a day to day basis
that will like have some kind of impact and also
model behavior that can improve somebody else's behavior too well.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
And actually speaking of Another thing you can do is
talk about this, like bring these issues up. I know
it can be cringy, and I know people don't like
to hear this, but part of the viability of current systems,
like part of the reason that this can continue to
exist is that it depends on us being unwilling to
talk about these issues. Like if we're like, oh, I
don't want to make someone feel a little uncomfortable by

(59:43):
talking about these things that are destroying our planet, Like tough,
I'm sorry, Like, we just need to be able to
talk to each other. We don't have to be dicks
about it. We don't have to be all blame and
like you suck because you bought this thing from fast
fashion websites. It's just we just need to talk about
the the issues and make sure that they're out in
the open and be willing to share our voices so

(01:00:04):
that that they're loud enough to be heard by people
in various spaces. And again, like, I think the best
approach is let's not blame each other for this, Like
let's just talk about what's happening in the system so
that we can be made more aware, because then we
can make choices that are more intentional and not just
based on pure ignorance, which seems to be where most
of this industry would prefer that we live is in

(01:00:26):
pure ignorance. Yeah, and let's just not live there, Like,
let's try and talk to each other and be informed
about what's going on so that we can make intentional choices.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Yeah. I think we have to be intellectually honest to
be socially responsible. Yeah. I think that's just what it
comes down to.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Awesome, all right, So that is fast fashion. I think
that we have said everything we want to say about that.
I've wanted to talk more about fashion more broadly in
various spaces, and for similar reason as you, like, I
don't particularly love the fact that this industry exists in
the way that it does. But this at least addressed
an aspect of it. So I'm glad that we got
it out there. But I think that's what we have

(01:01:01):
to say about that. Is there anything you want to
add to this discussion on fast fashion before we move
on to our other things?

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
Yeah. I think the thing I want to make sure
that I clarify is, like, I think that fashion in general,
like the fashion industry in the hoity toittiness is the problem. Like,
as I was thinking about this, I was like, well,
cultural fashion and fashion related spirituality is so important. Like
I think that good point accessibility in fashion is really important.
And I want to be really clear, like I don't
have Like I think those are probably separate topics that

(01:01:28):
we could probably unpack as different episodes. This one is
like specifically the fashion that exists as a result of
elitism and money making schemes and all that, and I
think that that is ultimately where my that's where my
thorn is so fair. Hopefully we can do better. We
can do better.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Yeah, yeah, No, you're exactly right. Is I do think
like there are a lot of aspects of fashion that
have extremely important cultural significance, And where this has created
so much instability is in the sort of mass production
and turnover that has come out of this. Yes, Like
it would be one thing if we were producing clothing

(01:02:06):
on the scale because we needed to clothe so many
people because they desperately needed it for their survival, right,
and I'd be like, great, go a full steam ahead,
let's do it. That's great, But that's not what this
is being used for. Like we're not addressing a major
concern here. It could be creating some of the concerns,
although I do think, as we mentioned, it is important
to consider like how many jobs this is created, and
the fact that it has made clothing more available to

(01:02:27):
more people who maybe wouldn't have otherwise been able to
get access to it. Yeah, but there are Yeah, there
are a lot of a lot of nuanced discussion to
have in those spaces and accessibilities. Another really important one
where we're thinking about, like the role that fashion plays.
That's just it's not black or white. It's extremely complex. Yeah,
and there are a lot of like every issue has
so many different sides and considerations that and I think

(01:02:48):
fast fashion is one of those. Like there is so
much harm that comes out of this, it is crazy,
but there are there are a lot of better I
think we have to acknowledge.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Yeah. Yeah, And I think that's it comes down to that, right,
Like the best solution is one that makes the problem
non non relevant, right like or you know, and that's
what we want to look for, is like cool people
can get clothing, but how do we make it so
that this is also less harmful? Yeah, Like that's the
problem that we are facing right now.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
I actually broadly have had a topic in mind. I'm
trying to figure out how to distill it down into
a conversation where everything sort of makes sense where I
think it's worth considering. Like if we can pull off
something like fast fashion, if we can do that as
a species, imagine what we could do if our goal
was to prevent disease, to make sure that people can

(01:03:33):
survive comfortably and like have housing. Like imagine, like we've
seen what we can do in these industries when we're
not trying to help each other. Imagine if we took
those resources and putting them toward helping each other, what
this planet would be? Like, Oh my god, Like there
is almost no limit to what we could accomplish. Yeah,
And so like thinking about it from that perspective, and

(01:03:56):
it's like, what if we just started from the assumption
that we want people to have high quality lives and
like we want the planet to be like a livable
place where things are sustainable, and then from there we
go forward with the kind of idea like practices we
have and we just manipulate them so that the same
amount of effort is put toward more positive outcomes. Like

(01:04:16):
I can't even imagine what we could achieve, it would
be so so beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
But anyway, a.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Conversation for another time. Thank you all for listening. If
you stuck with us through that whole entire thing, we
hope that you found some education and enjoyment and entertainment
of our shenanigans. I've been talking through these things. We
appreciate you being here. And if you are here for
the very first time, you may not know this, but
the end of each of our discussions we include some
really fun recommendations. They're just things. They're not usually related

(01:04:44):
to our topic, but things that we wanted to talk about,
and sometimes we get some listener mail, and we have
both of those things for you today. But before we
get to those things, we always have to do the
credits things, which is to say that if you would
like to support us, and you have not done so already,
one way you can do that by heading over to Patreon.
If you do that, you will get ad free episodes,
bonus content, behind the scenes content, all kinds of things

(01:05:06):
that like the rest of the people out there who
are consuming those do not get and that makes you
oh so special. And in addition to that, at the
end of each episode, I will read your name and
appreciation for helping support us do the thing that we do.
So giant. Thank you to Mike, m Megan, Mike T, Justin,
Kim Brad, Stephanie, Brian, Ashley, Kiara and Charlie. Thank you

(01:05:28):
all so much.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
Finger guns for you guys. Love it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
How longest patron has been with us for over six years,
by the way, so that rules. Yeah, that's very cool,
very very cool. I'm trying to say, like, call people
anyone else specifically, but.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
All I'm saying is that everybody who's listening the right now,
I bet you can't beat that record.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
That's pretty good. That's pretty good, oh man. Anyway, the
other ways you can support us, you can like and subscribe,
leave us a rating, and if you feel so inclined,
leave us a review, particularly if you like what we're doing.
Those five stars in the reviews means that we show
up in more places that people then also stumble upon us.
And if you have something critical to say to us,
well that's fine. We appreciate constructive criticism. You can email

(01:06:13):
us directly at info awwdwwdpodcast dot com or join us
on the social media platforms and we can converse with
you there. Thank you so much to my team of people,
without whom I could not make this podcast. Writing in
fact checking come from Shane and myself. Thank you for
recording with me today, Shane, thank you for putting this
episode together, Abraham Sure Sure. Our social media coordinator is

(01:06:34):
Emma Wilson, and our audio engineer and producer who makes
all of this listenable is Justin who does just a
really really good job at everything. He's like, so good
at it, so good at it. If you want to
really learn how good at it he is, you can
join us on Patreon and get our unedited episodes and
see what would have happened without his intervention.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
What a master skill set he's got.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Yeah, so it's truly remarkable. I mean, it's really like
turning a lump of clay into an object, Like you
just get a lump of clay and out of it
comes an episode. It's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
It's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
It is. It is. I think there is maybe more
things to say. I don't know, but I think it
described most of it. Anything for you to add before
we move.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
On, Nope, I think that covers it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
Okay, great, Well, let's start with a quick listener male. Okay,
this comes from listener Letitia, who has written in many times.
We really appreciate these correspondents. This is in relation to
our Punk Rock Legacy episode. Ale Teacher writes in punk

(01:07:37):
Rock Legacy is the best episode exclamation point. I loved
hearing rise against my personal favorite recommendation, Authority zero. I
look forward to every episode. Keep up the amazing work, guys. Ah,
thank you, yeah, thank you so much. I was very
sweet and I appreciate the shout out and recommendation. I
can't believe we forgot Authority zero when we were doing
a list here. Granted we weren't going to list like

(01:07:59):
every punk that ever existed, but that one maybe should
have been on the list. So I appreciate that the
solid recommendation to include there.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
Yeah. Every time I think of authorities here, I also
think of Against All Authority, which is a very different band,
but it's a lot of fun. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
Yeah, but you can see like the DNA overlap is there?

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
Yeah? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
So But anyway, thanks choice drummer. Very cool. I really
appreciate that. Let's do an advertisement. Oh all right, we're back,
So more music coming back from the ad break is

(01:08:38):
to recommend some things.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
I love that recommendations.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
I'm recommending an old movie. This is from I want
to say, nineteen ninety eight. I'd looked it up before
we started recording, and I think that it's nineteen ninety eight. Yeah,
it's a movie called The Faculty. And this is like
a sci fi horror sort of thing. But nineties horror
was such a special and unique and weird thing.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
It really was.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
It really was so How to describe this without giving
too much away, I think it's pretty clear. I mean,
this is a thirty year old movie. Now I'm almost
thirty years old. Who cares about spoiler? This is like
an alien body snatching movie. It is so much fun.
It is like, legitimately so much fun. It's funny, it's entertaining,

(01:09:37):
it's interesting, it's captivating. It's so nineties in so many ways.
But it's just it's a really fun watch. So I
definitely recommend. I think at the time that we're recording this,
it's on Netflix. I think it's out there. You can
find it on streaming somewhere. Just go look for it.
But yes, The Faculty. If you're looking for like a locky, silly,

(01:10:01):
weird horror, sci fi. This one was a crazy amount
of fun. So I'll give a little context. I was
telling Shane last time we recorded, I ended up watching
like three movies last weekend. I don't usually get to
watch very many movies. It was, so it was really cool.
I got to do three, like back to back, and
The Faculty was one of them. And of the three,

(01:10:21):
this one was the most fun. And I enjoyed all
three of them to a point, but this one was
the most fun. So The Faculty is my recommendation. Go
check it out.

Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
Yeah. It's also directed by Robert Rodriguez. So if that
tells you anything about yeah, like that's the best part.
It's like when you watch it, you're like, oh, all
these people are in it, Like Josh Hartnet's in it,
like Elijah Wood, Like it's pretty. It's really like quintessential nineties.
It is.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
And I guess what I didn't say in there was
that I had never watched this movie. Like I knew
about it. I remember when it came out and I
remember thinking I want to see that, and I just
never did. And so this was my first time watching it.
So I'm very enjoyed it much enjoying.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
It, and I'm going through the cast that I forgot
all these people were in it. John Stewart, Yeah, Daniel Vombargin,
who's like a character actor usher, Selma Hayak is in there,
Selma Hyak, Fanka Jensen. Like, just the amount of people
that are in it is pretty incredible. It's well worth the.

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
Watch it is. Yeah, it's quite the cast and like, yes,
there is just like the silliest cgi like what they
could accomplish in nineteen ninety eight, but some of the
practical effects are actually really good too, Like they're really fun,
so really fun movie.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
Yeah, it's it's great. I fully second that recommendation. It's
so fun.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
I feel like we were sort of commenting if you
watch it, Josh Hart and it's hair. I was like,
I feel like, what happened with the costume department is
theyre like, he is way too handsome for this role.
Let's make his hair look as dumb as humanly possible.
It actually looks like they directly tried to make it
look like dumb and dumber, like that's what his hair
sort of looks like, and like he's way too good looking,
so at least make his hair look bad. That's my Yeah,

(01:11:57):
that's what I think happened there.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
Yeah, one hundred. All right, I'm gonna recommend a an
album I love. I love music, and I love listening
to new music, and sometimes I like listening to new
music from old bands. And last week a new album
came out from the band Deftones. If you like them,
it's called Private Music, and I gotta say it's it's

(01:12:20):
really really, really good.

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
The thing with Deftones is that they rarely have bad output.

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):
Yah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Yeah, but I gotta say, like, you know, like there's
a couple albums where I'm kind of like, it's good
it's a Deaftones record. I just am like, you know,
I can kind of like I can go back and
listen to White Pony and feel okay with it, right.
But the last two records, Owns and Private Music are incredible.
And so this music I've been playing NonStop since it
came out. It opens with this really cool, just like

(01:12:47):
really loud, like hey we're Deftones, We're here, and it's
got a really big shoegazy feel to it, which Deftones
kind of already has, ye, but like they do it
really well on this and and it's worth a listen.
The first song was called My Mind is a Mountain,
I think, and that was like the lead single coming
into the record. But the artwork is cool. It's like

(01:13:09):
really brilliant. It's like a green backdrop with a bright
white snake on the front of it. It's really cool looking,
really interesting, and it's a really easy listen too. So
I think if you like Deaftones, you're gonna love it.
And that's just that's my recommendation for that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
I've actually been on kind of a Deftones kick lately
and I did not know about this, so now I'm
really excited to go check this out.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
Cool, it's their tenth full length.

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
Wow, I did not know that. Yeah, I am particularly
fond of Around the Fur.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:38):
But yeah, I mean, who's gonna dislike like Adrenaline or
White Bunny, That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:13:44):
Yeah, I mean, if you like, if you like any
of their recent more recent output to where it's a
little bit more shoegazy and less of the new metal
stuff that they kind of do, like, you're gonna I
think you're gonna dig it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
Okay, great, I'm definitely checking that out. So great, recommendation. Okay,
that is the Faculty old nineteen ninety eight movie and Deftones.
Private music is what it's called.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
Kaya, Yes, private music, got it?

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
Okay? All right? Yeah, perfect, So those are Yeah. If
you want to tell us about your thoughts on fast
Fashion or Deftones or the Faculty, your other nineties horror
or other sort of continuing to put out new music
old prog metal bands or whatever, or new metally bands,
then that's great. We'd love to hear from you. But
I think that's what we have to say about those
issues for now. So I think that it's time for

(01:14:26):
us to sign off. Thank you for listening. This is
Abraham and this is Shane. We're out.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
See Yeah, you've been listening to Why We Do what
we do. You can learn more about this and other
episodes by going to WWD WWD podcast dot com. Thanks
for listening, and we hope you have an awesome day

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Fast Fashion

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Dateline NBC

All Episodes

Fast Fashion

NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal