Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
You're listening to Why we Do what we Do. Welcome
to Why we Do what we Do Mini. I'm your
host Abraham.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
And I'm your host Shane.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
We are a psychology podcast. We talk about the things
that humans and non human animals do and sometimes what
humans choose not to do. And this is a many
short form discussion, which means that it's going to be
a quick get in there and describe a thing and
then get out of there. And I hope that none
of this so far has been particularly sexual or tantalizing
to people who are trying to partake in the festive
(00:45):
pastime that is no nut November also called no fap
November and falls in line with a thing called sperm retention.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
So, if you heard my voice and then immediately had
an orgasm, sorry.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Hashtag sorry not sorry, not sorry. If you are joining
us for the first time, we hope that you enjoy
what you here in this discussion today and are not
too put off by it because we don't usually go
this particularly overtly sexual. The purpose of this today is
because we are busting some myths. If you are a
returning listener, then welcome back. We're glad that you continue
to find value in our works. And either way, if
(01:23):
you like to support us, you can leave us a
rating and a review like subscribe, tell a friend, join
us on Patreon. I'll get back to that at the
end of this discussion, but we're doing a mini which
means we need to dive right into our topic, and
so I'm going to start with the fact that there
is a group of fragile men constantly worried about how
manly they are. There are some others who are just
(01:44):
simply misguided by the fragile men who are constantly worried
about how manly they are, which I think for now
I'm going to go ahead and use the acronym to
describe them as FMCWAHMTA fragilemen who constantly worried about how
many they are sure sure for sure Anyway, the whole
point is they engage in this practice now commonly referred
(02:04):
to as no nut November, which is a challenge to
not ejaculate throughout the month of November. Why, you may ask,
We'll get there.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, we'll talk about it now.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
They claim a variety of health benefits based on some
mental gymnastic reasoning and wishful thinking and zero evidence. It
sounds like a fun thing to debunk. We like to
debunk things here, and we'll get into the recent history
of this idea, the claims they make, and the science
behind it, which you know, there's like none.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
There's tons of science, but it does not support it
in some aspects of it, at least.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
It's not their science.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, very much. So. Is there anything
I missed or anything, any preamble before we get into this.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
No, I think we could just dive in.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I guess there's maybe a warning that, like, if you
struggle to listen to anything that is remotely sexual in nature,
then this might be tough for you. But this really
is not meant to be sort of titillating or exciting.
We're gonna this is largely a busting sort of mini
that we're going to do. I guess if you do
struggle with those types of things, then you'll hear a
lot of that in this, So you might want to
set it out. Yeah, anyway, for history here, ancient Daoist
(03:11):
literature described a practice of what they called semen retention,
which was a form of self control, and they believed
ejaculating was losing control and so they would profess keeping
it in as long as they could for periods of
time moire retaining the semen and this was a way
to both improve their health and regain control over their
own bodies. That was the idea espoused in that tradition,
(03:34):
at least right now.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
One source foul we found identified a post on a
bodybuilding website all the way back in two thousand and four,
in which the user lamented that his girlfriend would be
gone for nearly two months and had requested that he
not masturbate while she was gone, and he posed a
challenge to the group about whether he could make it
the entire time without touching himself.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
And by group here we mean this is an online
bodybuilding forum like community, and two thousand and four that
was still a thing. That was the group that he
was talking to. Now interestingly, although, and so this is
where the term sort of no FAP started. But you
actually had even noted that in the book Bluebeard by
Kurt Vonneguet, there was some issue some description of this
(04:15):
and issues around this in World War two.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah, so the main character talks about as a young
man during World War two that there is a belief
that you did not ejaculate, because essentially what would happen
is the sperm would like basically be reconstituted into their
body and like make them more virile and more healthy
and more manly.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Like.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
That was a discussion that was happening.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
That book was written, I believe in the early seventies,
so this conversation has been happening for quite some time.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, so again more wishful thinking here. So going back
to our story, we have this guy who posted to
his gym buddies that he was not supposed to masturbate,
sort of pose a challenge, and in response that may
come as a surprise to no one, the community railed
with misogynistic ratings and recommendations, including excori aiding the girlfriend
and telling him to cheat on her, and even went
(05:03):
as far as to recommend sexual assault, because of course
they did.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Of course, because that's what happens when you get on
the internet and it just goes wrong. I do think
it's really important to point out too, like in Bluebeard,
Vonnegut is using that as a device to like make
fun of it too. Oh good, Hey yeah, yeah, he's
not like saying you should, he's like going back in
like the character is even like I was a silly man.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I had no idea what I was doing.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Like he does, he goes so far Like I mean,
if you know Kurt Bonagut, he is very satirical and
so like that was just one of those like kind
of quirky moves that he did that I thought was like, really,
like that's funny.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Andrew Tate would have been so mad.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
So this online posting was really the first time that
the no FAP journey began as far as this journalist
could find in terms of like larger community rallies and
like kind of becoming in the culturals like guys like
we see these kind of discussions here and there, but
like this was kind of like the event horizon of
this particular movement. Sure, and this abstinence idea picked up steam,
and eventually no FAP no became a thing on November first,
(06:02):
two thousand and nine, again on a bodybuilding forum, which
you know, I think explains everything, and then gained a
lot of attention and truly surged in popularity and started
making it into the broader social awareness pretty soon after.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, in twenty eleven, it switched to no nut November
and then twenty seventeen, for some reason, it just like
really moved into the public awareness about it.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Yeah, and for listeners who don't know, like what they
mean by no nut, November nut is a euphemism described
to ejaculate, like you're you supposedly bust the nut. That's
where that comes from. Just so everybody has a little
bit of that origin. Because I'm so I'm so thankful
that I got to say that out loud.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
That actually is a great time. Then to Pellett cleanse
with an advertisement.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah, I'm gonna go wash my mouth out.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
All right, so we're back. The people who take on
this prous they claim the reason they do it is
primarily well, there's a lot of things. They claim that
it offers. Increased mental clarity, increased concentration, better quality sperm,
increased testosterone, deeper and happier relationships, increasing ejaculate volume, and
(07:19):
improvements in fertility. Those are the things that they say,
let's investigate them.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Hey, myth busting on its way.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
So on some aspects of this, there has been a
lot of research, and you know, because for some reason,
human researchers love to research, just like male sex organs,
and like male sexual performance and all that.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
There's there's countless penis studies.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Like just so many, there are a lot, it's kind
of absurd, but mostly what they were looking at is
with respect to fertility. But for others there is barely
any research and they are very small studies as far
as like some of these like these these claims go.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, So let's talk about the testosterone one. Only two
studies have looked at whether abstinence increase testosterone in any
meaningful way. In one of the studies, they asked ten
young healthy men to masturbate, and then they had asked
them to maintain abstinence from ejaculating for three weeks. Then
after the three weeks, they came back and measured again
(08:16):
and there was an increase in their testosterone. But they
also it was likely attributable. They sort of discovered it
was likely attributable to the fact that there were many
anticipatory cues that indicated that they were going to ejaculate
soon that were likely associated with the increased production of
the sperm. So the abstinence itself was not a reason
(08:38):
for the testosterone boost. It was the fact that they
were about to they were approaching ejaculation, opportunity to ejaculate
that led to the testosterone boost.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Another study that looked at this with a slightly larger
volume of twenty nine men found that testosterone increased for
about seven days, but then return to baseline levels. So
there's no good evidence suggest that seemen retention increase testosterone
at all.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yes, and if it does, it's like transitory, it doesn't
last very long. Right, So these studies they kind of
support each other and kind of contradict each other in
some ways. But that's really all we have on this,
and these are very small, Like, those are really small
populations for doing a group size groups to design in
a study. So that's just the thing to consider as
well as far as mental clarity. Evidence actually suggests that
(09:25):
masturbation abstinences are correlated with negative health outcomes, including stress, anxiety,
and shame. The community that promotes this also tends to
promote anti Semitism, false conspiracies about pornography. They spread misogyny,
and has even been flagged as a common talking point
amongst terrorist organizations. So terrorists, no FAP.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Sure, just another argument why should mass rate? Now?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
The claim about increased ejaculate volume is true. There have
been many, many studies, meta analyzes, and systematic reviews that
have shown that seeman volume increases about twelve percent per
day of abstinence for about four days. Then the increase
slows down to a tiny increase per day until it stops.
There is an upper limit for how much your body
can produce and retain for a period of time, so
(10:11):
you can really only hold so much.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Yeah, and actually what happens here is that extended periods
of absentence from ejaculation tends to lead to nocturnal emissions,
which of course resets the whole process. And it is
worth pointing out, like there's not something to be ashamed
or worried about it. It happens to people. Also, by
the way, this whole idea of like building up sperm,
like unused sperm and semen, they just get reabsorbed back
(10:34):
into your body. You don't build up a gigantic supply.
Sperm are created and then they're either ejaculated or destroyed
and reabsorbed back into your body. They don't just hang
around and build up an infinite arsenal until you're ready
to go. And I think an important thing also in
here is that like our bodies work best when they're regulated.
We don't always want to increase or decrease things that
(10:56):
our bodies are doing. Infinite increase is bad. That's actually
kind of what cancer is like. If a decrease is bad,
that's what death is, right. So, like, you don't want
gigantic increases in surpluses of things. You want things to
regulate in their optimum range of frequency and a like
volume and amount.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, I feel like that should be common sense, but
that's not a flower that grows and everybody's garden. As
far as increased volume, it doesn't actually help as far
as increased fertility goes. In fact, this is almost backward.
Abstinence from ejaculation can increase fertility and sperm for a
couple of days. Research actually shows that the quality of
sperm decreases with increased abstinence, so there are increased sperm deformities.
(11:36):
The longer you go without this lower motility which is
how well the sperm can move, and lower overall quality.
So the longer you go without regular ejaculations, the worse
your sperm gets.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yeah, actual fertility experts recommends that if you were trying
to conceive, like there is a couple of days where
like the quality will build back up. So they recommend
every other day or every couple of day that you
have sex because like you do get a little bit
for a couple of days, but after that it actually
starts to decrease, and then it starts like it just
keeps decreasing. I mean, there's probably a point at which
(12:10):
it stops decreasing. But like, yeah, abstinence does not actually
improve fertility. It makes it worse if it goes on
for a long time, and it seems like the maximum
was sort of about maybe three or four days that
you'd have sort of continued improvement, but after that it
starts to decrease, right, Okay, for the other things that
they talk about, increased concentration, deeper relationships, there really isn't
(12:31):
a way to measure such a thing such that changes
or improvements might be detectable. Ultimately, if you want to participate,
go nuts or don't beautiful. I mean really it's like
do whatever you want, but like, you know, don't expect
these magic outcomes, and like if you feel like you're
getting benefit, then like there's not there's not actually inherent
(12:53):
health detriments to doing it. But don't go participate in
the toxic, fragile, masculine misogyny bullshit or think that it's
going to magically make your ejaculations epic. Like that's just
not how bodies work. So right, that's sort of where
we're ending.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, And to make up for it,
I'm going to do it twice as much in November.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Team, all right, thank you all for listening. I think
that's what we have to say about this one. If
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Speaker 2 (13:39):
Men.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
We do have somewhorch you can pick up at our
merch store, although the store is currently down and I'm
in the process of repairing it, so you can't do
that right now, but in the future. You can email
us your thoughts on November or other things. If you
have heaping amounts of praise or some constructive criticism, you
can reach us at info at wwdwwdpodcast dot com, and
we're on the social media platforms and we do look
(13:59):
for hearing from you. Yes, all right now that we
are here, thank you to my team of people. Thank
you for recording with me today, Shane. Thank you everyone
for listening. Beyond that, is there anything that I missed
or that you would like to add before we wrap
this one up?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Nothing else right now.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Go forth and enjoy the rest of your in November
without restrictions. Yes, this is Abraham, this is Shane. Why
we Do what we do?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Mini is out. Bye.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
You've been listening to Why We Do what We Do.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
You can learn more about this and other episodes by
going to wwdwwdpodcast dot com. Thanks for listening, and we
hope you have an awesome day.