August 4, 2025 • 15 mins
Do you ever feel an nearly uncontrollable urge to move your legs? If you do, you probably still don't have RLS, but it may be worth getting tested for a diagnosis. Please don't self-diagnose just because we talked about it. Restless Leg Syndome is mostly what it sounds like: A powerful urge to move your legs or get up and move around. Rather than just sitting for too long, this usually has a specific etiology and some specific treatments and tends to affect people's sleep. We'll explain the psychology involved here as well.
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Links and References:
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/why-we-do-what-we-do--3419521/support.
Get these episodes ad-free and join our cool community: www.patreon.com/wwdwwdpodcast
Links and References:
- https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/restless-legs-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20377168
- https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/9497-restless-legs-syndrome
- https://www.ninds.nih.gov/health-information/disorders/restless-legs-syndrome
- https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/restless-legs-syndrome/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20377174
- https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/restless-legs-syndrome-rls
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/why-we-do-what-we-do--3419521/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
You're listening to Why we do what we do. Welcome
to Why we do what we do Mini. I am
your host Abraham and I'm Shane. We are a psychology podcast.
(00:23):
We talk about the things that humans and non human
animals do, and sometimes we talk about the somewhat involuntary
seeming things that they do. And this is a mini
which means it's short. We're into a quick discussion of
that thing and then be done and go about and
let you go about your day. See if we can
get an in and out of there in fifteen minutes
or less. That's the challenge.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, so so far we have been pretty successful with
this challenge. Not always, but for the most part, I
think we do a pretty good job.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah. Usually, I think it shakes out about that way.
If you are joining us for the first time, then welcome.
We hope that you enjoy what you hear in this
discussion today. And if you're a returning person, then welcome back.
We're glad that you've continued to choose us as the
thing that goes into your brain via ears, Yes, goes
into your ears, and whatever happens after that happens. But anyway,
(01:10):
if you would like to support us. You can join
us on Patreon, pick up some merch leave us a
rating and review, like subscribe, and tell a friend. I'll
talk more about those things at the end of this discussion.
They're more preamble before we jump into it. I think
I said everything.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
I think you said everything. I think you got it covered.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
All right, Great, maybe I said if you're new, but
if you're returning, also welcome back. I think that's important
part of it. Yeah, yeah, anyway, I think yeah, I
did say that. Okay, never mind, we're good. I want
to start with a quick disclaimer. So we are talking
about restless leg syndrome, which is kind of like a
unique thing for a psychology podcast to talk about. Hopefully
the reasons for that will become more clear here in
a moment, but I want to start with a quick cya,
(01:47):
which is this is not intended to diagnose or treat
any disorders. Please consult your physician and psychologists when making
any decisions about your medical care and possible diagnoses. So
just no going into that. This is not something you
walk away with and you have a new diagnosis. Ideally
you do not, But just wanted to talk about this
as a thing that happens. Also, please try to avoid
(02:08):
leaving this episode having suddenly developed restless legs syndrome by
hearing us talk about it. There is a tendency to
do that sometimes, and I'm hoping to dissuade that from
happening if possible.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Yes, yes, so let's go ahead and get into it.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
And I mean, those are perfectly appropriate disclaimers, just given
that some people are very easily influenced. So just be mindful,
go get to a doctor and all that.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
So all right.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Restle's leg syndrome is a condition in which the sufferer
experience is a powerful urge to move their legs. People
with ROLS often report discomfort in their legs, which is alleviated,
at least temporarily by moving their legs around or walking.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Now, the discomfort that they report is extremely varied. It
ranges from things like them saying that they have cramps
or numbness, to throbbing, aching, itching, pulling, and I left
out about a half a dozen more or maybe a
dozen more. Really, the only thing that's pretty consistent, or
is it completely consistent across these is the urge to
(03:02):
move their legs. That's the feature that is the same
regardless of the onset the prevailing experience that makes that
urge valuable, if you will.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Right, And this potentially underscores our lack of ability to
attackt our private sensations well or consistently with other people,
because we can't tell what someone else is actually feeling
when we start trying to label that feeling for them,
So they develop their own associations with what labels go
with what experience is. What is a cramp to you
might be tightness to me, and so on and so forth. Right, So,
(03:33):
like we can kind of see how people language differently
around what could be similar sensations.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, and this is I think a common feature of
things that we like to talk about with private experiences
is like when you are having some kind of pain
inside of you, we often lean on metaphors to describe
that pain. A sharp pain is a reference to like
how things feel that are sharp that we can touch
and know that they feel sharp. A dule pain is
(03:58):
like something where we might gain and think of something dull,
and we think of like sparkling as a metaphor to
relate to random bursts of pain maybe that are small,
or it doesn't have to be pain either. It can
just be like random pops of sensation. So anyway, we
use these sort of metaphorical language because it's really difficult
to know how to label them because we don't have
(04:19):
anybody around us who can tell us how we're supposed
what that feeling is, because they can't tell what we're feeling.
So when kids are growing up learning these things, they
develop their own sort of regional and familial relations with
what those sensations are. Anyway, all that is to say,
patients are most likely to report and experience restless leg
syndrome when they're sitting or lying down for long periods
(04:41):
of time. This actually is kind of the crux of
why we think this is interesting to talk about from
a psychological perspective. It's the specific setting event here where
you're sort of immobile for a period of time and
you have this urge then to move your legs. To
this end, though, a period of time where you were
often sitting or lying down with very little motion is
(05:02):
when you're sleeping, and therefore this is a condition that
sometimes interrupts or prevents people from being able to get
adequate sleep.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Right now, restless leg syndrome is experienced by five to
ten percent of adults around the world, with women experiencing
it more than men. It is associated with other conditions
such as depression and anxiety.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Now, this actually can develop at any age, and it
does tend to get worse with time. Possible causes include
things such as nerve damage either genetically or from an injury,
kidney failure, spinal injuries, iron deficiency, kidney disease, diabetes, peripheral neuropathy, anemia,
substance abuse, and Parkinson's. All of these have been related
(05:44):
or associated with the experience of restless leg syndrome or URLSS,
which sometimes called.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
It yeah yeah Now.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Depending on the cause, treatments may include iron supplements if
the person is iron deficient, physical therapy, dopamine agonists and
anti seizure medication, warm baths, good sleep, exercise, massage, heat pads,
and avoiding stress, as well as avoiding substance such as caffeine, alcohol, nicotine,
and particularly avoiding those before bed.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yes, okay, So that sort of I think gives some
understanding to some of this contextual variables related to the
onset of this experience, as well as because we understand
those contextual variables, that presents the opportunity for solutions to
help mitigate that experience. Unfortunately, we don't have as readily
(06:32):
a solution to mitigate ADS.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Oh it's always ads.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
We are back, Okay, So I wanted this next part
I think is important. So, as we mentioned, we were
speaking to the contextual variables as they relate to the
conditions under which this is likely to occur. And that's
relevant for thinking about this because if there are environmental variables,
then that's well within the wheelhouse of sort of what
behavior analysts focus on and emphasize when working up treatment
(07:05):
and interventions to support things that are behavioral. Important to
say that there's not really any evidence to suggest that
this is explicitly behavioral. That's not to say that it
won't ever exist, but up until this point it really
has not been treated or looked at in that way.
And I think it's really a lack of opportunity to
study and consider those environmental variables and the behavioral approach
(07:28):
to them that may contribute to the development, onset, and
maintenance of URLs. So I do think personally looking at
these descriptions of rols, understanding the conditions of URLs speak
pretty clearly to a behavioral condition, to a point. There
are medical conditions here that should be looked at first,
(07:51):
but I do think there are some behavioral situations and
factors that would be very beneficial to consider, and so
we're going to talk through what we think that those are.
Are Again understanding that right now this is this is speculative,
but I do think it's very within the realm of
reasonable speculation and hypothesis given what we understand about this
condition and about behavioral variables.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Right, So let's consider, for example, stress and anxiety. Right,
these are evoked by setting events that can have or
that do have an aversive context, such as a work deadline,
first date, major test, court appearance, constant reminders of a
persistent fear. What we're saying here is situations in which
all stimuli indicate a high probability of aversive outcomes.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Right, That's that's what we're looking at here.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
And this contributes to stress and anxiety in lots of
different ways, which again is part of what could be
causing RLS for some folks.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
And that's whether or not this is like an experience
someone had or like perceive that they may have. Like
it could be like there is a difference between someone
who is staring down the barrel of a gun, and
someone who is afraid of staring down the barrel of
a gun, even though they never have, but those can
manifest and similar ways in terms of how they experience
that fear. So that is an important thing here. So
(09:06):
situations like this make behaviors that escape from or distract
from the aversive event more valuable and rewarding. Sorry it's
my Russian accents coming out revolding. We call these motivating
operations in our behavioral world, and that is to say,
like they make certain outcomes more valuable, they make them
(09:26):
something that we would seek. So in these situations where
we have that sort of experience where we have like
something that indicates an aversive or something fidgeting, picking, wandering,
other activities that pull our attention away from the unpleasant
situation or otherwise stimulate our nerves so it gives us
some sort of input, these are more likely to occur
(09:48):
in times when we are particularly worried about some aversive event.
That's relating it to stress specifically, But I think you
could think of this also when there's some amount of boredom,
like lack of stimulation means that now any stimulation added
is going to be more valuable. If you're already over stimulated,
adding more is probably not going to help. But like
(10:10):
I said, these are more likely to happen in low
activity mode. And for some people when they're in that situation,
they might have the feeling that they should be doing something,
but they're otherwise disengaged, and so then you have sort
of these persistent thoughts and feelings of like obligation that
weigh on you. And in these these moments again like
engaging in something, fidgeting, moving, pulling like that starts to
(10:34):
feel like it's moving in the direction that is wanted
when you sort of feel like you're you're a little
bit disengaged. Yeah, And just trying to make trying to
pay the picture here that I think and make sure
this is clear that like we want to appreciate what
the setting event and motivating operations are at play, where
we're in a situation where movement now becomes valuable. And
as I said, like we think about like even in
(10:56):
these medical conditions, if they're mostly manifesting restless legs syndrome
when they're not actively engaged in something, then that tells
you that that is a setting event that is likely
to occasion that behavior, which tells us there is something
behavioral about that experience.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, Like a way that I look at that is
like maybe I think of it like this, right, So,
so me sitting at a chair for a long period
of time, Like let's say I'm on a plane and
I have to fly for like a great distance.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
You've never had that experience.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I've never had the experience ever. But I'm just just
just hazarding a guess, right, Like, sitting down for a
long period of time can create some level of discomfort
just by the nature of like you're sitting and not
moving right like, so, like there is a point where
it becomes uncomfortable because human beings are naturally reinforced by
movement in some way, right.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
At particular intervals. I mean it's like, yes, if you're
moving non stop like that becomes pretty exhausting. But it's
like you also don't want a huge amount of downtime,
Like you want to have intervals where you have like rest,
relaxation and in activity intermittently.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I think for the most part, people can relate to
the experience that like, yes, I've been saying down for
a long time. It's uncomfortable. That is not restless lag
syndrome that is just like the need for movement cold case,
Like we're talking about people who are experiencing high levels
of discomfort, pain, aching, tingling stuff. That's like a little
bit different than just kind of like, oh, I have
a sensation that I need to move a little bit,
you know.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah, that's great, and yeah, I think that just really
trying to highlight here, like if we can pinpoint environmental
context in which this takes place, that gives us an
opening for where it might make sense to include as
part of your treatment some behavioral health things. Yeah, what
that might look like will be variable depending on what
your exact situation is. Like For people who anxiety and
(12:39):
stress are the thing, than dealing with that will make
more sense than someone who is like bored, you know,
and like just spending too much downtime, Like we just
want to figure out like make sure they're getting enough
exercise or something like that. Yeah, one percent, all this
is to say, like this is not going to be
the case for all people with RLS, and these situations
also will not reliably produce URLs. However, it just may
(13:01):
be a relevant factor to consider. So for instance, if
we're teaching coping skills and relaxations, that's going to be
more helpful for someone who experiences rols without any other
underlying risk factors or conditions, and for whom like stress, anxiety,
and worry tend to be how they show up in
those situations. But like it is a low cost, low
(13:22):
invasive strategy and it's a great sort of first step
to include before you start moving to more intensive interventions.
And like I said, I do think you want to
make sure you've ruled out neurological medical things first because
those could be very serious problems. So like go get
those checked out. But like if you're if you don't
have major underlying conditions and you're experiencing this, then before
(13:43):
you start going onto things like surgery and mechanical devices
and whatnot, like there might be some behavioral solutions to
help to at least try and see if those help
first before you go the more intensive, expensive and invasive route.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Yeah, agreed, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
All right, Well we did that one justice that's restless
like syndrome. I don't remember why we brought this up.
That was like we mentioned in an episode or something.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, I came up somewhere at some point in time.
So yeah, that's usually how our topics show up here.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Fair enough, true? True? That all right? Well, hey, we
hit our fifteen minutes. We're right about there at least,
so hopefully the timing worked out correctly. Once we're all
said and done with everything. Thank you so much for
joining us all today. We appreciate all of your listeners.
If you'd like to support us, you can join us
on Patreon. There you'll get ad free episodes, bonus content,
and in our full lengths we will read the list
of names of people who have supported us. Over there,
(14:32):
you can also leave us a rating and review, go
like subscribe to a friend. You can reach out to
us directly to tell us about your experiences with URLs
or anything else, or give us feedback on other episodes,
or just say hi. You can email us at info
at wwdwwdpodcast dot com. We're also on the social media platforms.
Thank you to my team of people without whom I
could not make this episode. Thank you for recording with
me today, Shane anytime. Emma Wilson is our social media
(14:54):
coordinator and our recording tech and sound engineer. Maestro is
Justin so thank you.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Justin yes, so great.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
All right, anything that I missed with you? You like to
add before we say goodbyes for this here Minnie, Uh nope,
I think that covers it perfect. Thank you all for listening.
This is Abraham and this is Shane. Why We Do
What We Do? Mini is out.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Bye e. You've been listening to Why We Do What
We Do.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
You can learn more about this and other episodes by
going to WWDWWD podcast dot com. Thanks for listening and
we hope you have an awesome day
You're listening to Why we do what we do. Welcome
to Why we do what we do Mini. I am
your host Abraham and I'm Shane. We are a psychology podcast.
(00:23):
We talk about the things that humans and non human
animals do, and sometimes we talk about the somewhat involuntary
seeming things that they do. And this is a mini
which means it's short. We're into a quick discussion of
that thing and then be done and go about and
let you go about your day. See if we can
get an in and out of there in fifteen minutes
or less. That's the challenge.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, so so far we have been pretty successful with
this challenge. Not always, but for the most part, I
think we do a pretty good job.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah. Usually, I think it shakes out about that way.
If you are joining us for the first time, then welcome.
We hope that you enjoy what you hear in this
discussion today. And if you're a returning person, then welcome back.
We're glad that you've continued to choose us as the
thing that goes into your brain via ears, Yes, goes
into your ears, and whatever happens after that happens. But anyway,
(01:10):
if you would like to support us. You can join
us on Patreon, pick up some merch leave us a
rating and review, like subscribe, and tell a friend. I'll
talk more about those things at the end of this discussion.
They're more preamble before we jump into it. I think
I said everything.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
I think you said everything. I think you got it covered.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
All right, Great, maybe I said if you're new, but
if you're returning, also welcome back. I think that's important
part of it. Yeah, yeah, anyway, I think yeah, I
did say that. Okay, never mind, we're good. I want
to start with a quick disclaimer. So we are talking
about restless leg syndrome, which is kind of like a
unique thing for a psychology podcast to talk about. Hopefully
the reasons for that will become more clear here in
a moment, but I want to start with a quick cya,
(01:47):
which is this is not intended to diagnose or treat
any disorders. Please consult your physician and psychologists when making
any decisions about your medical care and possible diagnoses. So
just no going into that. This is not something you
walk away with and you have a new diagnosis. Ideally
you do not, But just wanted to talk about this
as a thing that happens. Also, please try to avoid
(02:08):
leaving this episode having suddenly developed restless legs syndrome by
hearing us talk about it. There is a tendency to
do that sometimes, and I'm hoping to dissuade that from
happening if possible.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Yes, yes, so let's go ahead and get into it.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
And I mean, those are perfectly appropriate disclaimers, just given
that some people are very easily influenced. So just be mindful,
go get to a doctor and all that.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
So all right.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Restle's leg syndrome is a condition in which the sufferer
experience is a powerful urge to move their legs. People
with ROLS often report discomfort in their legs, which is alleviated,
at least temporarily by moving their legs around or walking.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Now, the discomfort that they report is extremely varied. It
ranges from things like them saying that they have cramps
or numbness, to throbbing, aching, itching, pulling, and I left
out about a half a dozen more or maybe a
dozen more. Really, the only thing that's pretty consistent, or
is it completely consistent across these is the urge to
(03:02):
move their legs. That's the feature that is the same
regardless of the onset the prevailing experience that makes that
urge valuable, if you will.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Right, And this potentially underscores our lack of ability to
attackt our private sensations well or consistently with other people,
because we can't tell what someone else is actually feeling
when we start trying to label that feeling for them,
So they develop their own associations with what labels go
with what experience is. What is a cramp to you
might be tightness to me, and so on and so forth. Right, So,
(03:33):
like we can kind of see how people language differently
around what could be similar sensations.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, and this is I think a common feature of
things that we like to talk about with private experiences
is like when you are having some kind of pain
inside of you, we often lean on metaphors to describe
that pain. A sharp pain is a reference to like
how things feel that are sharp that we can touch
and know that they feel sharp. A dule pain is
(03:58):
like something where we might gain and think of something dull,
and we think of like sparkling as a metaphor to
relate to random bursts of pain maybe that are small,
or it doesn't have to be pain either. It can
just be like random pops of sensation. So anyway, we
use these sort of metaphorical language because it's really difficult
to know how to label them because we don't have
(04:19):
anybody around us who can tell us how we're supposed
what that feeling is, because they can't tell what we're feeling.
So when kids are growing up learning these things, they
develop their own sort of regional and familial relations with
what those sensations are. Anyway, all that is to say,
patients are most likely to report and experience restless leg
syndrome when they're sitting or lying down for long periods
(04:41):
of time. This actually is kind of the crux of
why we think this is interesting to talk about from
a psychological perspective. It's the specific setting event here where
you're sort of immobile for a period of time and
you have this urge then to move your legs. To
this end, though, a period of time where you were
often sitting or lying down with very little motion is
(05:02):
when you're sleeping, and therefore this is a condition that
sometimes interrupts or prevents people from being able to get
adequate sleep.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Right now, restless leg syndrome is experienced by five to
ten percent of adults around the world, with women experiencing
it more than men. It is associated with other conditions
such as depression and anxiety.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Now, this actually can develop at any age, and it
does tend to get worse with time. Possible causes include
things such as nerve damage either genetically or from an injury,
kidney failure, spinal injuries, iron deficiency, kidney disease, diabetes, peripheral neuropathy, anemia,
substance abuse, and Parkinson's. All of these have been related
(05:44):
or associated with the experience of restless leg syndrome or URLSS,
which sometimes called.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
It yeah yeah Now.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Depending on the cause, treatments may include iron supplements if
the person is iron deficient, physical therapy, dopamine agonists and
anti seizure medication, warm baths, good sleep, exercise, massage, heat pads,
and avoiding stress, as well as avoiding substance such as caffeine, alcohol, nicotine,
and particularly avoiding those before bed.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yes, okay, So that sort of I think gives some
understanding to some of this contextual variables related to the
onset of this experience, as well as because we understand
those contextual variables, that presents the opportunity for solutions to
help mitigate that experience. Unfortunately, we don't have as readily
(06:32):
a solution to mitigate ADS.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Oh it's always ads.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
We are back, Okay, So I wanted this next part
I think is important. So, as we mentioned, we were
speaking to the contextual variables as they relate to the
conditions under which this is likely to occur. And that's
relevant for thinking about this because if there are environmental variables,
then that's well within the wheelhouse of sort of what
behavior analysts focus on and emphasize when working up treatment
(07:05):
and interventions to support things that are behavioral. Important to
say that there's not really any evidence to suggest that
this is explicitly behavioral. That's not to say that it
won't ever exist, but up until this point it really
has not been treated or looked at in that way.
And I think it's really a lack of opportunity to
study and consider those environmental variables and the behavioral approach
(07:28):
to them that may contribute to the development, onset, and
maintenance of URLs. So I do think personally looking at
these descriptions of rols, understanding the conditions of URLs speak
pretty clearly to a behavioral condition, to a point. There
are medical conditions here that should be looked at first,
(07:51):
but I do think there are some behavioral situations and
factors that would be very beneficial to consider, and so
we're going to talk through what we think that those are.
Are Again understanding that right now this is this is speculative,
but I do think it's very within the realm of
reasonable speculation and hypothesis given what we understand about this
condition and about behavioral variables.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Right, So let's consider, for example, stress and anxiety. Right,
these are evoked by setting events that can have or
that do have an aversive context, such as a work deadline,
first date, major test, court appearance, constant reminders of a
persistent fear. What we're saying here is situations in which
all stimuli indicate a high probability of aversive outcomes.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Right, That's that's what we're looking at here.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
And this contributes to stress and anxiety in lots of
different ways, which again is part of what could be
causing RLS for some folks.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
And that's whether or not this is like an experience
someone had or like perceive that they may have. Like
it could be like there is a difference between someone
who is staring down the barrel of a gun, and
someone who is afraid of staring down the barrel of
a gun, even though they never have, but those can
manifest and similar ways in terms of how they experience
that fear. So that is an important thing here. So
(09:06):
situations like this make behaviors that escape from or distract
from the aversive event more valuable and rewarding. Sorry it's
my Russian accents coming out revolding. We call these motivating
operations in our behavioral world, and that is to say,
like they make certain outcomes more valuable, they make them
(09:26):
something that we would seek. So in these situations where
we have that sort of experience where we have like
something that indicates an aversive or something fidgeting, picking, wandering,
other activities that pull our attention away from the unpleasant
situation or otherwise stimulate our nerves so it gives us
some sort of input, these are more likely to occur
(09:48):
in times when we are particularly worried about some aversive event.
That's relating it to stress specifically, But I think you
could think of this also when there's some amount of boredom,
like lack of stimulation means that now any stimulation added
is going to be more valuable. If you're already over stimulated,
adding more is probably not going to help. But like
(10:10):
I said, these are more likely to happen in low
activity mode. And for some people when they're in that situation,
they might have the feeling that they should be doing something,
but they're otherwise disengaged, and so then you have sort
of these persistent thoughts and feelings of like obligation that
weigh on you. And in these these moments again like
engaging in something, fidgeting, moving, pulling like that starts to
(10:34):
feel like it's moving in the direction that is wanted
when you sort of feel like you're you're a little
bit disengaged. Yeah, And just trying to make trying to
pay the picture here that I think and make sure
this is clear that like we want to appreciate what
the setting event and motivating operations are at play, where
we're in a situation where movement now becomes valuable. And
as I said, like we think about like even in
(10:56):
these medical conditions, if they're mostly manifesting restless legs syndrome
when they're not actively engaged in something, then that tells
you that that is a setting event that is likely
to occasion that behavior, which tells us there is something
behavioral about that experience.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, Like a way that I look at that is
like maybe I think of it like this, right, So,
so me sitting at a chair for a long period
of time, Like let's say I'm on a plane and
I have to fly for like a great distance.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
You've never had that experience.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I've never had the experience ever. But I'm just just
just hazarding a guess, right, Like, sitting down for a
long period of time can create some level of discomfort
just by the nature of like you're sitting and not
moving right like, so, like there is a point where
it becomes uncomfortable because human beings are naturally reinforced by
movement in some way, right.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
At particular intervals. I mean it's like, yes, if you're
moving non stop like that becomes pretty exhausting. But it's
like you also don't want a huge amount of downtime,
Like you want to have intervals where you have like rest,
relaxation and in activity intermittently.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I think for the most part, people can relate to
the experience that like, yes, I've been saying down for
a long time. It's uncomfortable. That is not restless lag
syndrome that is just like the need for movement cold case,
Like we're talking about people who are experiencing high levels
of discomfort, pain, aching, tingling stuff. That's like a little
bit different than just kind of like, oh, I have
a sensation that I need to move a little bit,
you know.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah, that's great, and yeah, I think that just really
trying to highlight here, like if we can pinpoint environmental
context in which this takes place, that gives us an
opening for where it might make sense to include as
part of your treatment some behavioral health things. Yeah, what
that might look like will be variable depending on what
your exact situation is. Like For people who anxiety and
(12:39):
stress are the thing, than dealing with that will make
more sense than someone who is like bored, you know,
and like just spending too much downtime, Like we just
want to figure out like make sure they're getting enough
exercise or something like that. Yeah, one percent, all this
is to say, like this is not going to be
the case for all people with RLS, and these situations
also will not reliably produce URLs. However, it just may
(13:01):
be a relevant factor to consider. So for instance, if
we're teaching coping skills and relaxations, that's going to be
more helpful for someone who experiences rols without any other
underlying risk factors or conditions, and for whom like stress, anxiety,
and worry tend to be how they show up in
those situations. But like it is a low cost, low
(13:22):
invasive strategy and it's a great sort of first step
to include before you start moving to more intensive interventions.
And like I said, I do think you want to
make sure you've ruled out neurological medical things first because
those could be very serious problems. So like go get
those checked out. But like if you're if you don't
have major underlying conditions and you're experiencing this, then before
(13:43):
you start going onto things like surgery and mechanical devices
and whatnot, like there might be some behavioral solutions to
help to at least try and see if those help
first before you go the more intensive, expensive and invasive route.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Yeah, agreed, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
All right, Well we did that one justice that's restless
like syndrome. I don't remember why we brought this up.
That was like we mentioned in an episode or something.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, I came up somewhere at some point in time.
So yeah, that's usually how our topics show up here.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Fair enough, true? True? That all right? Well, hey, we
hit our fifteen minutes. We're right about there at least,
so hopefully the timing worked out correctly. Once we're all
said and done with everything. Thank you so much for
joining us all today. We appreciate all of your listeners.
If you'd like to support us, you can join us
on Patreon. There you'll get ad free episodes, bonus content,
and in our full lengths we will read the list
of names of people who have supported us. Over there,
(14:32):
you can also leave us a rating and review, go
like subscribe to a friend. You can reach out to
us directly to tell us about your experiences with URLs
or anything else, or give us feedback on other episodes,
or just say hi. You can email us at info
at wwdwwdpodcast dot com. We're also on the social media platforms.
Thank you to my team of people without whom I
could not make this episode. Thank you for recording with
me today, Shane anytime. Emma Wilson is our social media
(14:54):
coordinator and our recording tech and sound engineer. Maestro is
Justin so thank you.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Justin yes, so great.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
All right, anything that I missed with you? You like to
add before we say goodbyes for this here Minnie, Uh nope,
I think that covers it perfect. Thank you all for listening.
This is Abraham and this is Shane. Why We Do
What We Do? Mini is out.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Bye e. You've been listening to Why We Do What
We Do.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
You can learn more about this and other episodes by
going to WWDWWD podcast dot com. Thanks for listening and
we hope you have an awesome day
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