Naked

Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
You're listening to Why we do whatwe do. Welcome to Why we Do
what we do. I am yourclothing optional host Abraham and I'm your never
nude host Shane. Where a psychologypodcast. We like to talk about all

(00:26):
the things that people do and whythey do them. And we take this
a sort of very science e behavioralangle to understanding what people do rather than
doing what I think is a sortof the pop psychology armchair angle. I
mean maybe we do that a littlebit. We have to speculate on things,
we have our moments. Yeah,but the idea here is to really
unpack this with a skeptical eye,with a scientific lens, with a behavioral

(00:47):
framework, you know, adjective nowand whatever. Put them all in there.
And that's the thing that we enjoydoing. And if you're joining us
for the first time, thank youfor being here. Welcome, Happy to
have you. You can support usif you like what you hear today,
liking and subscribing, leaving a rainingand review, joining us on Patreon,
picking up some merch or you cango completely naked and just shave wwd wwd

(01:08):
into your back hair and that wouldbe a thing that you could do.
Yeah, and I'll talk more aboutthe ways you can support us at the
end of today's discussion. I'm excitedto get into our topic and I don't
know if I've really given it awaytoo much. But before I do this,
I'd like to acknowledge that this episodeis coming out on July twenty sixth,
and there are some specific dates aboutwhich we like to acknowledge because it

(01:30):
is July twenty sixth. Yes,today is all or Nothing day, you
know, because we hate nuance here. That's right, there's no in between.
It is that is all you getanyway. It is also at an
Uncle day, or maybe it shouldbe aunt or Uncle day. To fit
in with all or nothing. Yeah, I mean that's Aunt or Uncle Day.

(01:52):
I'm a proud uncle. I likebeing an uncle. It is one
voice day, only one voice day, no more, no less. To
fit in with all or Nothing day. This has to do with reading the
Universal Peace Covenant, the ideas thateveryone reads at exactly six pm Universal time,
which I think is supposed to beGrinnage meantime. And this Universal Peace
Covenant is a five hundred and seventyseven word pledge to bring everyone together into

(02:16):
peaceful coexistence. So that's supposed tobe the idea. I don't know how
many people celebrate that sounds nice,yeah, but you could be one of
those. So it's really like acelebration of peace type thing. I support
that. Yeah, And importantly itis also coffee Milkshake Day, which you
know, a few things in lifeare just so wonderful that sounds really tasty.

(02:36):
Yeah. No, no, they'veever had a coffee milkjake. I
think I have, but I definitelydid another one. Yeah, well today
maybe we'll get one. It's alsomoth Week indeed, the nocturnal butterflies.
Yeah, goth butterflies. All right, So we are actually not a podcast
that just breaks down holidays. That'sjust something we do for fun at the
beginning of this to let you bebetter in touch with the things are going

(03:00):
on in the world around you,because you know, sometimes we go off
the rails on some very weird sortof sidebar topics that no people have ever
heard of, and don't again afterwe've talked about this. But yes,
before we get into our topic,I have one more piece of housekeeping,
which is that the podcast awards areout. They're out in the world.
You can nominate us you can votefor us. These are the People Choice

(03:21):
Awards. They're open until July thirtyfirst, so you're almost out of time.
So go to Podcast Awards dot com. You can click to nominate and
to vote. So go there andvote for us. I think we've been
nominated for it by I'll go doublecheck and make sure. Either way,
you go there and check it out. If you'd see our name, then
vote for us, and if youdon't, then nominate us. In that
way, we'll be on the listand we'll see what happens. Yeah,

(03:42):
we'd like to be an award winningpodcast. Yeah, the only awards we've
won are the awards we've given ourselves. Yes, which you know, I
guess is fine. Yes, itworks. Although you know, we've had
support and help from various organizations suchas the Disseminating Behavior Analysis Special Interest Group,
which of course were eternally grateful totheir help. Anyway, Yes,
that is a thing that's happened.Let's get into our topic today, shall

(04:04):
we, Yes, we shall.All right, Well, let's start with
a little background, So a bitof a story here. We're going to
talk about someone just for a moment. She's not the star of the podcast,
but she's going to help introduce it. Her name is Carolyn Hawkins.
She's a perfectly normal person whose lifewas suddenly shifted in a totally new direction.
Not bizarre out of you know,not that crazy or anything. But

(04:26):
just if you saw her on thestreet, you'd be like, that looks
like a person who's doing normal things. And then her life all of a
sudden took a very different direction whenher husband asked her to accompany him to
Cypress Cove, which was a newestresort in central Florida. Ah. Yes,
it's only an hour away from whereI live, just down the road
from Shane. Yeah. Now initiallyreluctant, he was finally able to convince

(04:49):
her to go, although she resolutelyinsisted that she would not be taking off
her clothes, and indeed she stuckto her rules, so she was fully
clothed. Carolyn for a while.The whole time, and once in the
midst of the community, she wassurprised by many things. For one,
everyone was kind, friendly, warm, welcoming, and not at all pushy

(05:10):
about the fact that she had chosenthe war clothes. And for another,
the people she met provided, apparentlyto her a convincing argument fur their way
of life, and finally that shekind of just stopped noticing the nudity that
was around her or thinking of itas being in any way out of the
ordinary. It started to just feellike, this is just people here,
and there was really nothing else tocomment on in that way. Yeah,

(05:31):
So, despite her original reservations,she started to see the appeal, and
by the end of that trip,she and her husband were registered members.
She loved it so much that shestarted working there. Eventually, she and
her husband moved there, and sheeven became the public relations coordinator for the
American Association of Nude Recreation or an R, which sounds really fun to
work, like, be like,hey, they were naking people here,

(05:53):
come hang out the an R.This American Association of Nude Recreation website amazingly
helpful. One of the key resourcesfor what I was able to find an
information for this here. I found, you know, plenty of sources,
but they just very very helpful place. Go check out their website. Now,
apparently this kind of story is actuallynot terribly unusual for those who have

(06:14):
found their way to what you mightcall a naturist way or to a naturist
community. Or a nudist community orsomething. Many of the people who have
joined these naturists or naturalist clubs,when they started, they were completely opposed
to the idea of nudism. They'relike, under no circumstances would I ever
do anything even remotely like that.But nevertheless they find themselves completely ameshed in

(06:36):
this sort of nude culture. Yeah, and there's some discussion to be had
about the role of clothing and fashionin our psychology and how that impacts our
behavior and our psyche, as wellas lewdness or even being offended, but
we are mostly going to leave thatfor another day. I think there's a
lot there's a lot to discuss aroundpuritan values in the United States and why

(06:56):
we think nudity is a bad thing. Like, there's a lot, there's
a lot there. There's no waywe're gonna be able to tackle it here,
right, Yeah, We've got enoughto talk about just the history of
nudism, and so we'll review thathistory as well as some of the behavioral
and psychological implications of being unclothed forextended durations, possibly out most of the
time. And Yeah, so wewanted to dig into why do people why

(07:19):
are there people who find this nudestway of life so appealing. What's going
on with these nudest colonies? Arethese just big sex clubs and that sort
of thing, And we'll talk aboutwhat's going on with these and sort of
where it came from. This isone of those episodes that lends itself well
to history, I think. Yeah, And so let's go ahead and start
there. To anyone that's listening,they should come as no surprise that humans

(07:41):
have not been wearing clothes throughout theentirety of human history. For as long
as we could document, we knowthat people didn't wear clothes. So ancient
Egyptian pharaoh akan Aton or Aton somethinglike that. Acan Aton from thirteen eighty
five to thirty fifty three bc BCpurportedly started social nudism, and as we
discussed in our Spartan episode, theGreeks were frequently in new lots of naked

(08:03):
people throughout history. Yeah. Absolutely, And we're obviously born naked, and
we do lots of things naked,and we usually bathe naked, and so
like. If there's one thing thatis true of all humans, it is
that at some point in our liveswe are completely naked unless you're Tobias Funk
and unless you're Tobias fume k allright now, the Olympics even were held

(08:24):
entirely in the nude, and athleticismwas commonly in naked activity, particularly in
Greece when this was going on.And it does make sense if you think
about what clothing options were kind ofavailable at the time that athletic events were
going on. Casual daily clothes werebarely tailored, right, They were often
very warm, They were often veryrestrictive, so like swimming and exercising and

(08:45):
warm weather in general just didn't reallywork right clothes right. Also, they
were probably a fire hazard because theywere often made of like dried plants or
things like that, and so you'regoing to be if you're trying to keep
warm and you're wearing one of thesethings, you might go too near a
fire. Then you would have tothrow your clothing away, which took who
knows how long to make. Soyou know, there was just a lot
of activities that people did that clothingwas not very useful for, and so

(09:11):
they only needed clothing for certain activities. Right. Bathhouses or bathing areas where
people would gather to bathe together inthe nude and even toilets where public places,
so you found these kind of likethese large congregations of people doing things
that naked people do. They didn'thave doors or walls, so they were
kind of these communal areas where peoplewere just kind of hanging out thinking,
and people would sit next to oneanother and talk while they did their business.

(09:33):
It was not something that was kindof taboo or it was kind of
like a standard practice in the communities. Yeah, basically bathroom stalls without the
stall part. Yeah, it waslike a bench with a bunch of holes
that you would sit on and thenpeople would just talk to each other about
the news while they did the thing. In the late sixteen hundreds, although
most of the world was mostly bathingnude, some bathing costumes were developed for

(09:56):
women and later men who would visitthese bathhouses. Is sort of a precursor
of things like it's like swim outfitsand that sort of thing, sure,
which is really interesting and the historyof swimsuits is probably a whole other episode
We've got to do. Yeah.Now, as the world became more global,
nudity was increasingly scarce until the Renaissance, during which the human body regained
acceptance and was accepted in art andin public, and even Christian leaders accepted

(10:18):
to some degree the logic that ifGod created humans in its likeness and we
aren't born with clothes, that thelikeness must be naked and must be good.
I love kind of the ebb andflow of Christian leadership and all that
stuff. I think that's a fascinatingthing. What they find morally a barant
versus what's fine? You know,yeah, for a little bit. You

(10:39):
know, people who like the Biblethought naked was good. Yeah, I
mean that was the zeitgeist. Nowthe ultra conservative Puritans, a liberty hating
people who worshiped shame and misery sothoroughly that they wouldn't even Bathe instead considered
changing their undergarments periodically while hidden behindblankets or hidden behind or under blankets for
modesty as good hygiene. And sowhat I'm saying here is that there are

(11:01):
this group of people who were soopposed to nudity that they wouldn't clean themselves
more than like a few times ayear at most, and that they were
like, all you have to dois change your clothes, specifically you're undergarments
and make sure nobody sees you whileyou do that. And the Puritans really
wanted to use government to control everythingthat everyone did, and so that's why

(11:22):
they moved to the Americas to dojust that. As they were like,
we're going to impose our moral hangups on everybody else, and we're just
going to make that be part ofthe government here. And now they all
wear red hats. In the eighteenthand nineteenth centuries, well regarded public figures
such as Benjamin Franklin and Henry DavidThrow thought nudity was very healthy. I
just I love the idea of benFranklin, just thinking like nudity is like

(11:45):
the bee's knees, you know,he's out there flying a kite with a
key strong to it, just likein the nude and just like kind of
like this is great, this islike that's like this thing. Yeah.
Throw regularly took nude walks, includingto town, and Franklin would take air
baths, during which you would openall the windows and sit and naked in
them to receive the full effect ofthe air. President John Quincy Adams regularly

(12:07):
bathed in the Potomac, so everybodywas naked, ye, And they signed
this big document that made our Americathe way it is today. That's right
now. The practical reality of lifefor settlers who were building homestead on lands
that had been illegally, forcefully orsneakily appropriated from indigenous people by the US
government meant that families were sharing bathroomsand water for bathing. So if you

(12:28):
were out moving out into the westand away from the cities, it was
really common for these families to havebasically one large metal tub. They typically
bring it into the kitchen where theycould easily boil water or heat water,
and then the heated water was addedto the tubs that each member could then
take a bath, and rapid successionthey could get in and have warm water
and they take their bath. Sonakedness of one's own family was just a
simple reality, and it was verynormal because that was just the way things

(12:52):
happened. You people had to batheand it was relatively difficult to do so,
and so they would all sort ofbe around and see each other naked.
And so also, again, clothesmade at the time, clothes made
for water really didn't exist, soswimming and bathing had to be nude.
Right now, nakedness was much lessacceptable during the Victorian era, where showing

(13:13):
any amount of legs skin was shamefullyimmodest. And however, the idea that
elites were so over the top prudishthat they covered their legs the legs of
their furniture to avoid arousal, asa myth, and that can be traced
back to the humorous musings of Britishnaval officer Captain Frederick Marriott. Yea,
all right, we do have morehistory for you, but maybe peel off
a layer while you listen to someads and they'll be right back. Yeah,

(13:35):
take your shirt off, it's probablychafing you. All right, we're
back. You are as, however, clothed, as you have chosen to
be at the moment. And we'regetting into the eighteen nineties and the cities
around the world, particularly in theUnited States, we're starting to grow to

(13:56):
very large sizes, and often sanitarypractices coupled with undeveloped engineering practices meant that
where people were gathered and living inlarge groups, diseases were just absolutely thriving,
right, And so the stuffy contemporaryclothing, poor working conditions, and
lack of regulations and policies for watercleanliness led people to the idea that getting

(14:18):
back to nature, into fresh airand sunlight was very healthy, and that
just in their clothing was part ofthat. Like getting back in the nature
meant that you weren't taking your clothingwith you. You were like leaving everything
behind, your possessions, your clothes, your whatever. And so basically they
had these sort of toxic health swampsthat were cities because of poor engineering and

(14:39):
poor regulation, and they move outaway from the cities to areas that had
not been so polluted by human activity, and they're like, well, this
nature stuff seems to do wonders forour health, and so you leave all
that stuff behind and clothing our underneath. Yeah. Now, groups of people
who abstained from alcoholism and sex,who strictly vegetarian which was mostly synonymous with

(15:01):
vegan back then, and practice naturalmedicine, felt that nakedness was an important
ingredient in self help and healing.That's so different than today, right,
So, after more than a thousandyears of not having the Olympics, the
Olympics were revived in eighteen ninety sixwith the attention of exactly replicating the ancient
Greek practice, which was men only, clothing optional, mostly discarded, and

(15:24):
your Asian countries began to take thismore relaxed view of nudity again although the
US. The United States did notart, and even literature that depicted nudity
or sex were considered so obscene thatowning or creating it could result in being
jailed. Ah America. Anthony Comstock, a self hating prudish man, felt

(15:45):
this mission in life was to policemorality. He would love has today,
that would be like his jam Likehe would for sure be like the president
of Has, but like make surethere's like a foreign policy in there too,
like yeah. Now. Comstock appointedhimself the leader of the New York
Society of the Suppression of Vice exactlyand saw anything on the spectrum of sex

(16:07):
as evil. He had an earlypioneer of birth control and planned parent and
founder, Margaret Sanger, thrown injail for distributing pamphlets about obtaining birth control
because they were lewd and lascivious.He successfully petitioned Congress to pass a law
to prevent the distribution of lewd materialthrough the mail, which came to be
called the Comstock Act. This guysounds like he would be so fun at

(16:29):
parties. Yeah, he also soundslike one of those like horribly repressed people
or maybe like had always been turneddown for anything remotely related to like relationships.
Oh yeah, he liked the originalin cell right. Yeah, yeah,
I think he Maybe he was.Meanwhile, in nineteen oh three,
what could be considered the world's firstmodern nudist club, Freelicked Park, which

(16:51):
was translates a free light park.The founder, Henrik Pudour, championed the
idea of a naked lifestyle and severalbooks that helped to act people to his
club, and so this grew intothe free body movement that reflected the earlier
ideas of health, vegetarianism, andnudism, very similar to those other ideas
that we're talking about before right now. In nineteen twenty nine, we saw

(17:15):
the first organized newdist activity in America. Kurt Barthel was a German American who
got a group of people together andrented a remote, undeveloped land outside of
New York City over Labor Day weekend. There the group enjoyed a clothes free
weekend of outdoor activities such as hikingand swimming, and it was not a
sex thing, just to be clearabout that it was just being outside naked

(17:36):
and is basically an air bath.It was Ben Franklin's air bath. Yeah,
very much so. And that wasa very important piece of this is
that this was really not about asex thing. And we'll talk a little
bit about the intersectionality that happens therelater, but first, like we're just
unpacking the history of these nudist organizations. Yes, so that was nineteen twenty
nine. Two years later, Barthel'sofficial naked club, the American League for

(18:00):
Physical Culture, had a permanent locationcalled sky Farm outside of New York City.
Over two hundred people signed up forthis the moment that it formed,
and so the police are like,we're going to raid this. You know,
anything successful that it is outside ofthe norm, We're going to tear
it down. So the police ratedit. I love the idea of the
police rating it in terms of likethe logistics, because the path downs would

(18:22):
have had been so easy, sothey could walk in and be like,
nope, no weapons. Yeah,pretty much. However, the following trial
solved a major victory for the clubis the judge ruled in their favor.
He cited the fact that they hadgone out of their way to ensure their
own privacy, and they were notin other people's space, and that they
were, they weren't doing anything loot. Again, it was not about sex.
It was just about being together witha group of like minded people.

(18:47):
One of the things that they happenedto be like minded about was being newt
right. And the trial sort ofgarnered a lot of attention. The fact
that it was successful also had alot of people interested, and so this
resulted in many more members signing upfor the club and the attempt to suppress
nudism actually gave it a tremendous boost, and not for the last time.
We will find out as we're gettingthrough history. But yeah, these these

(19:08):
sort of ultra prudish, these peoplewho are going out of their way to
not do this in my space,I'm going to police them anyway. And
the decision to do that resulted ina lot more people joining that club.
So there're being a lot more peopledoing that. So the sort of backfired
in a very lovely way. Ithink it's an important precedent for something like
this right where and this is Ithink this will happen time and time again

(19:30):
where somebody who tends to have amaybe a really conservative leaning, like more
puritan leaning, I should say,not even conservative, but like a really
puritan leaning. It will go aftersomething and then a judge will rule on
it. That will set a precedentfor like more people kind of finding favor
in that or getting permission to dosomething that is actually not loot and not
a problem. But actually now there'slegal precedent to say this is okay.

(19:52):
Right. Yeah, And they weren'tdoing as we said, They weren't doing
anything. They just decided to donormal activities minus clothes. Yeah, they
were probably playing like chess and justeating food and telling stories. It was
probably great. That was actually definitelythink that happened. It sounds like it
was probably a lot of fun.So now American Baptist minister Isisley Boone.

(20:12):
Oh Boone's that name is familiar?Why is that name familiar? Oh?
That's in Salem's Lot, the Loreof Salem's Lot, the evil preacher that
like has ruined the town in oneof the short stories. His last name
is Boone. That's what I waslike, there's any he was a preacher,
okay, Eisley Boone decided his callingwas to rule the nudist movement in
the US, and he sees controlfrom Barthel. Boone made the nudest Agenda

(20:36):
his fight. He spent decades settingup and pushing for legality of nudist clubs
around the country. He ran theclubs with strict guidelines that tightly controlled who
could join, who could run them, and how people were to behave while
there. And similar to many ofthe preceding clubs, Boone required members at
many clubs to practice nudity at alltimes, practiced abstinence that's an important thing,
follow a vegetarian diet, and practiceregular alaesthetics. Yes, it's important

(21:02):
to him that people sort of likelook and present their best if they're going
to be a part of this club. Boone also helped start a nudist magazine,
which continued to push for acceptance andadoption of nudism, and by the
mid nineteen thirties there were over eightyclubs around the country, mostly on the
East Coast, which is still truetoday right now. In nineteen thirty six,

(21:22):
New York decriminalized mail toplessness. Soyou know, it's been almost one
hundred years since men could walk aroundwithout their shirts in New York City.
Yeah, without being in violation ofthe law. During World War Two,
the military distributed nudist magazines to soldiersas it could not distribute pornography. So
this nudist magazine was selling very well, at least among the military. Obviously
the soldiers wanted pornography, but thesenudist magazines were better than nothing. What

(21:45):
was kind of interesting as an outcomeof this is that after the war,
many former soldiers they decided to jointhese nudist clubs that were presented in these
magazines. I think that makes sensebecause it's probably like, with all the
things that you had to have seenduring World War Two and now Tara was
like, it probably makes sense tojust go back and be like, there's
peace here, right, you know, I imagine that the nudist clubs are

(22:06):
incredibly peaceful. Yeah. Now,in nineteen forty one, Congress reinstated the
Comstock Act no distribution of lewd materialthrough the mail. That's what was going
on. But Boone took the fightto the US Supreme Court, which again
overturned the Act in nineteen fifty eight, So another win for nudists, that's
right. So we kind of dida skip there because that was like a
seventeen year period going on. Atthe fight in the middle of that,

(22:29):
in nineteen fifty two, the SupremeCourt also overturned the Haze Code. And
this was for those people who arebig cinema buffs will recognize this, but
the Haze Code entailed a strict censorshipof nudity, strong language, and even
the depiction of generally quote unquote inappropriatebehavior in films. So this was largely
the precedent that later set up theMPAA, who like, when films didn't

(22:52):
have a rating system, they didn'thave the Haze Code, there was this
blurry space in between where film makerscould make whatever they want wanted, and
then the MPa was like, underno circumstances, we hate art, we're
going to shut that down. Andthen that's what's been in place ever since
then. Yeah, and honestly thatthat kind of thing has happened across multiple
mediums. If you go back andlook at the history of comic books,

(23:12):
it's the same thing for a verylong time. That's why Superman. One
of his powers is that he canshoot tiny versions of himself out of his
eyes, I think, and hehas like miniature versions of Superman that go
around and like that was a superpowerhe had for a minute. I mean,
it happened with was we talked aboutwith video games obviously, it happened
eventually with TV shows like syndicated serializedTV shows as well as music has gotten

(23:37):
all this. So yeah, anywherewhere there is art, there is someone
trying to tear it down. Turnsout, Yeah, throughout history. Now,
over the following decades, nudism waxedand weigh into the US. Although
largely maintained, they maintained a steadygrowth, estimated to be about an eight
hundred million dollar industry by the endof the nineteen nineties. So people are
really stoked about this. It couldbe a moneymaker. Yeah. And then

(23:57):
the last thing to sort of saythe history of the timeline here there.
I mean, there's sort of alast word that has continued to grow.
They're still around. There's lots andlots of people who do this, and
that's the thing we'll get into.But also I think an event that many
people will have heard of is calledburning Man. This is an annual event.
This began humbly on a beach inCalifornia in nineteen eighty six and now

(24:18):
regularly attracts over seventy thousand people tonorthern Nevada's Black Rock Desert, which is
only a couple hours drive from whereI'm at. A matter of fact,
most people will fly in Torino,and there's this whole burner culture that happens
because seventy thousand people is a lota lot of people. Add burning man,
if you weren't familiar, There's alot of things that go on.

(24:40):
But essentially it becomes its own little, temporary, self regulating government, and
people are allowed to practice naturism ornudism as much or as little as they
wish. You can go there andbe totally clothed the whole time. You
can go there and be totally nakedthe whole time. Anything goes that is
not a thing that they choose topolice there, which attracts a lot of
people to it. They want tohave that experience sort of a thing that
has happened that is sort of nudistadjacent but is relevant. I mean,

(25:06):
it sounds like a fun event,but it also just sounds like there's a
lot of dusty buttholes. I takeit you have not been. I have
not been. I'm being silly Ihear it's a wonderful event. I just
have not ever been, and whatI see does not make it appealing to
me. I have been once.I don't want to poo poo anyone's time
out there. Well, I willsay, is they have this policy of

(25:27):
leave no trace, an insufficient amountof people actually respect that rule. I
think there is a huge amount ofcleanup that ends up needing to be done,
and I think that is probably aggressivelydamaging too many of the ecosystems that
do exist in a place like adesert, which is not a barren wasteland
but does have a lot of lifegoing on there. Yes, and so

(25:47):
I think that it is not asgreen as it would like to be or
has been able to be. Andso that's a thing that I think it
ends up feeling really wasteful. Likethere are people who will I'm given to
understand. I haven't looked into thismyself, but I've heard on other podcasts
people talking about like flying private jetsuntil like a nearby air like airstrip that's
really close to it. Sure,So like that's pretty defeating of anything that

(26:11):
might have something to do with beinggreen or being natural or anything like that,
and then you have to obviously shipa just mountain of resources out there,
Like if you're trying to feed seventythousand people for a week and like
have bathrooms for sanitation for seventy thousandpeople, and they're running generators and stuff
like it is it is a hugeevent. That being said, the art

(26:32):
out there amazing. I mean,you almost will not find cooler art anywhere.
People spend years putting these things togetherand then they'll go out in this
big, you know, sort ofharrash celebration where oftentimes they'll set it on
fire toward the end. Yeah,sometimes it'll make it back, but anyway,
it's the art is incredible, thecostumes are incredible, and yeah,
the experience that I had when Iwas out there was that the angle,

(26:53):
the nudest part of it, youget over really quickly, and it's not
even complete nudest, like it's onlyyou know, a chunk of the population
that are practicing some amount of nudism, and it stops being novel really really
fast. Like it's just like,oh, well, there's more boobs,
there's more buds, there's more wieners. I think that makes sense. I

(27:15):
think that it's that whole thing wherelike art and creativity and like the general
sentiment is is really wonderful and reallyfun and late stage capitalism tends to ruin
it. There you go, wellsaid, speaking of late stage capitalism,
here's an ad. We're back.We would like to talk about, I

(27:40):
think, understanding nudism here and whypeople do it. So sort of looking
at this from a behavioral lens,if you will, nudism does the opposite
of what you think it might do. I think people tend to assume that
it is a sexual thing. Itcreates kind of just like a bunch of
it, like a horning community,and it doesn't do that. Many people
who have joined the nudist movement havedoes so because of the psychological flexibility that

(28:02):
they experience when they relinquish their clothesin social settings. They can get some
kind of relief and some new experiencesas a result of this. From a
psychological standpoint, and most people willreport a great deal of fear, as
you might imagine, for the firstfew moments, but when they try it,
by the end of the first hour, they report that they're usually pretty
comfortable, and the extent to whichthey notice there's or others. Nudity rapidly

(28:22):
disappears and stops becoming something that isprevalent for them or even noticeable. Right.
So, ironically, wearing no clothingseems to make people less self conscious
and concerned about body image, andin part because seeing other people helps everyone
see the natural variation that can existin everyone's bodies. People have asymmetrical features,
scars, extra weight, wrinkles,small bits, large bits, uniquely

(28:45):
shaped bits, etcetera, etcetera,etcetera, and no two people look alike.
So the idea of quote unquote normaland an idealized body type rapidly fades
away. I mean, once youcan kind of see that there is no
standard, you start kind of realizingthat, Ah, now I've been comparing
myself to other people that don't havethe same situations that I do, and

(29:07):
to people who don't represent how mostpeople look, which is to say,
like you'll you'll go to news clubsand you'll see people who are very fit,
who are in very athletic shape,but you know they're going to have
a body that looks a particular way, and maybe it doesn't look like Chris
Evans or you know, a modelor something like that they just happen to
be sort of thin and have lowweight, but maybe they have weird hands,
or they've got this weird scar orthis weird wrinkle, and it almost

(29:30):
doesn't matter, Like it doesn't matterwhether or not they have flaws. The
point is basically that people you juststart seeing them as people and not what
they've sort of chosen to wear.Right, And so one reason people find
comfort and nudism is it allows themto let go of all the discomfort they
have about their own body that theycare around with them all day. They're
thinking, how do I look inthis outfit? How do people do I
look fat? Do people see meas fat? Do they see my fat?

(29:52):
And if you're nude, then likeyeah, they definitely, they definitely
see me, and I see them, and we all see each other.
And that actually brings a high levelof comfort to people because that stuff is
just something you can't spend any timeon anymore. It's just out in the
open. Absolutely. So the unspokenrule about nudism, particularly it established resorts,
clubs and beaches, is that it'sa safe space. And I really

(30:15):
like that and not like the kindof safe space that like you hear bloomers
talking about like, oh, they'relike not ironically like, it's actually like
a really comfortable safe space. Peoplewho make others uncomfortable by leering, coming
on to others, are generally beingweird, are promptly asked to leave,
and so this becomes a place wheresexual predation and even general attracting, This

(30:36):
sizing up becomes less common than astore or possibly even a church. It's
like a really comfortable place where everybodycan be themselves and have to worry about
being hit on or being a targetif you will. And the lack of
clothes means everyone must accept their ownvulnerabilities and protect one another. And there's
a large kind of safe community aroundthat. Yeah. Another reason that people
come to nudism is a feeling offreedom, in the sense of being natural

(31:00):
in nature, and many of theseclubs often feature green outdoor spaces beaches,
pools, trees, hiking, andthings of that nature. Being naked in
these spaces often they report feeling natural, feeling good, feeling sort of a
part of it. They report feelingbetter what the water touching all of their
skin, unencumbered by clothes of anysort. Let's acknowledge that people might be
thinking, well, if you're walking, if you're hiking naked, like,

(31:22):
your feet aren't going to get tornup. These are practical, intelligent humans.
They wear shoes when they're hiking.They're dressed practically as needed, so
like there might be circumstances they wearclothes because it's cold. They might be
circumstances where they're covering themselves up toget the sun off of their skin.
There are definitely be circumstances where they'rehiking and they wear shoes to protect their
feet. So it's not that theycompletely issue all clothes all the time.

(31:45):
They are practical, normal decisions thatpeople make. Well, right, clothes
become less of a social norm andmore of like a tool. Yes,
that's exactly right, as a verygood way putting it. That's the way
that I would see that, right, Like okay, Like if it's cold,
yeah I need more layers because Iam a furless mammal. Yeah.
Or if I'm going to go walkingon like sharp rocks or climbing that I

(32:05):
probably need something with traction and mybare feet don't do that just yet right
now. Another thing people love aboutthe naturist way of life is that they
feel it creates a more equitable socialhierarchy, which is to say, clothing
is often used to establish a socialstanding. Expensive watches, expensive clothes,
suits, tailored garments, or loosefaded shirts communicate a message about someone that
establishes their relative worth or like kindof their caste or class. This is

(32:29):
abandoned when clothes are left in thelocker, and even wealthy people enjoy this
lack of status symbolism and simply enjoytheir friends. I mean, it takes
away the hierarchies that exist that kindof separate people from different classes of people
and makes it so that we're allon level playing fields exactly right. And
similarly, people who are actually morelikely to size each other up sexually and

(32:49):
otherwise when wearing clothes. But whenpeople are used to being naked around one
another, they tend to really lookeach other in the eye and listen when
the other person is talking. Andagain, like there's this element of when
we see each other and way likeyou can sort of see the outline of
someone else's body, maybe you mightthink for a second, you know,
you notice that some of the skinis revealing or it's not. You see

(33:09):
some tattoo, poking out, oryou like, maybe wonder what that looks
like, or maybe you want maybeyou're one of those people who just wonders
what everyone looks like when they're naked, whatever the point is, when they're
not, then you don't have thatas a mystery anymore. It's not tantalizing,
it's not meant to try and inviteleering and daydreaming and wondering. It's
like it's all out in the open, and so people actually stop gazing at

(33:31):
it, and they look each otherin the face and have a conversation.
And so they they're listening when otherpeople are talking, they're looking at each
other, they're in you know,there's there's a social bonding, and nudism
promotes the sense of social bonding wherepeople can feel closer to one another because
the mystery and tantalizing hint of sexualitythat is created by fashion is completely absent

(33:51):
in those conversations. And they aresimply are as they are presented, nothing
more, nothing less. They're justhumans. They're just humans and their human
skin and their human bodies being humanbeings. That's such a nice thought.
I love that right now. Peopleall have also noted benefits of nudism and
kind of these communities, and we'regoing to talk about a few of these.
One of the benefits is that peopletalk about not having to do laundry

(34:13):
very often saves time, saves water. I love that. And they're also
not spending time choosing an outfit becausethere's no social kind of like standard for
what that is, so they don'thave to worry about that nearly as much.
They're also not packing very much becausethey're not planning to wear clothes,
so suitcase space is left for otherthings, or maybe not brought at all.
They just bring a backpack with likethe hygienic stuff. Sure. And

(34:35):
then one thing they also report isbeing able to get a more even tan
because you're not going to have tanlines from clothes. I love that.
I mean, tan lines are fine, so but that is nice. That's
a funny thought to be like,Yeah, I guess no tan lines,
no worried about that. If that'ssomething you can you're concerned about. Yeah,
you sleep at a more comfortable temperature, so you don't have to like
regulate quite as much because you don'thave additional layers that you weren't really prepared

(34:55):
for. And there's no hassle withuncomfortable clothing. And we just as I'm
saying this, I know that Ipersonally adjust my clothing all day. Yeah,
just I think people naturally do that. You probably do too, and
I've probably now bringing this up havemade you acutely aware of the clothing that
you're wearing right now in this moment, and it makes you want to adjust,
because that's what happens when we dothis right. It's the don't think

(35:15):
of the pink elephant situation. Absolutely, that's a nice benefit to think about.
It is like there's not really alot of adjustment that you have to
do. I was thinking as youwere saying that, like, I know
that I've adjusted my clothing several timeswhile sitting here talking, just you know,
tugging my sleeve that way, youknow, just pulling it down this
way, or you know whatever,making it feel like it fits a little
more comfortably, and that that wassomething that you just wouldn't be doing at

(35:37):
all if you don't have to worryabout the clothing sort of bins or bunches
or like you get itchy or something, an itch that's hard to scratch because
you can't really reach it because that'sunderneath so many layers or in a place
that's hard to get to, andso there is this just general level of
heightened comfort that can come with that. You know. I was just thinking
we had a missed opportunity here.We could have done this entire episode top

(35:58):
less, and we chose not to. That would really have been the selling
point for getting people on the Patreonwhere we do release videos. Yes,
yes, yes, yes we doit. You could have seen us both
outless, but we opted not tothis time. So maybe next time,
maybe on the nostalgia episode five yearsfrom now, Yes, when we look
much better, give us give usfive years to get really really confident it's

(36:24):
gonna be great. Well, they'llripen into perfection at that point anyway.
But I think, honestly, there'sthere was this element of it as I
was reading what they what they weresaying now on these websites and stuff,
that I feel like, I justwant to really make sure I get across
in these nudist clubs, because,as I said, it's really not about
sex. There is some level ofintersectionality there where there are a lot of

(36:44):
people who are very free and openabout their sexuality. And so they'll often
also join these clubs where there's alot of sex that does happen, and
because clothes just get in the wayof that, they also tend to be
naked a lot of the time.So it's not that there's no overlap.
There are overlap, But the nudistclubs themselves are not set up generally to
be about sex, and if theyare about sex, that's usually pretty explicitly

(37:07):
stated, right, And we'll getto some I think some other interesting features
of these that are sort of thefaques the questions you probably have that I
had at least I was doing thisresearch. But the other thing that I
think I want to communicate is justhow different of an experience it is socially,
behaviorally, and psychologically when you andeveryone around you are in the nude

(37:28):
and as we're communicating in here,there's this like status starts to go away,
body type starts to go away,bias about your own body starts to
go away. There's a certain levelthat people experience where it's like, because
they're all vulnerable and they're all onan even playing field, that also helps
them have conversations with each other thatare sort of feel real one to one

(37:49):
conversations where they're listening to each otherand talking to each other and like,
and they're there to like just bewith one another. They're not coming at
this from this various formal perspective oflike what do I do? And what
do you do? And how muchdo you make? And how expensive are
my clothes? And how do Ilook in my clothes? And all of
that. That stuff has gone andpeople experience having these much more real conversations

(38:09):
that it invites a level of kindnessand openness and warmness to one another and
treating each other with respect and dignityand without judgment. It makes a lot
of sense when you think about fashioncan serve a lot of practical purposes,
and in these particular spaces, whatit kind of highlights is that one of
the things that fashion can also dois severely, severely disrupt our ability to

(38:32):
engage with one another meaningfully. It'sjust putting up a wall between us and
the next person that we just weararound with us, you know, sometimes
many walls and many layers and manycolors, and like, you know,
I think a lot of people geta lot of joy from fashion. And
it's not to say that there isno space for fashion and clothing, but
there is I think something to besaid about this, and I feel like

(38:52):
there's a lot to sort of unpackhere in the interesting Tidbits section that I
always like to include, and wedo our notes, but I feel like
in my heart I would say,like, in my heart, I'm a
nudist. Yeah, I think I'ma naturist. I definitely have way too
much fear about that to feel comfortablewanting to join. I would like to
believe that someday I would be ableto do this. Yes, same,

(39:12):
I definitely am not there yet,but I think, you know, if
I were to just take the leapright now and say I'm gonna go to
one of these resorts and check itout, I'd probably by the end of
that visit, i'd be like,Yep, I'm a member. Now I'm
joining this thing. Sure, Andit's really just about taking some action toward
it. I think for me,it's just I would need more tattoos,
Like I feel like if I hadmore tattoos that looked like I was wearing
clothes, I'd probably feel more comfortable. But I also have to recognize it,

(39:34):
like I have like a negative levelof melt into my skin, and
so like, I absorb so muchsunlight right, sunburned so bad. That's
a real problem for me. Solike, I've got there's a lot that
I've got to kind of sort outbefore i end up at a as a
naturist. But yeah, I likethe idea. The idea seems really wholesome
and nice. Shin gets sunburned fromthe ambient lights scattered from the sun in

(39:57):
a room where the blinds are drawn. My dude, you I have been
sunburned within fifteen minutes in Florida.It's real bad. All right, Well,
we've we've gotten a little bit offtrack, so we'll let the advertisers
maybe sell you some lotion or sunscreenor something, and we'll come back to
talk about the interesting tidbits available innudism. I hope that sunscreen commercial comes

(40:22):
up. We're back. Let's answersome of those questions that you probably have.
Yes, was the website or theassociation, the American Association of Nude
Recreation. Yes, the American Associationof Nude Recreation. So they were super
helpful and kind of giving you,giving us some insight on on this kind

(40:45):
of culture. And there are acouple of things that we want to talk
about. First, folks that arepart of this kind of community prefer the
term naturist, but nudist is okay, And they tend to avoid the term
lifestyle as that's been co opted byswingers as a specific keyword for that particular
group and those proclivities. Yes,they also tend to prefer club or community

(41:06):
as opposed to colony. They liketo say colonies are for ants, and
so that they are intet a club, where's book library for ants. There's
kind of a stigma about this beinga bunch of old people sitting around,
and there is some truth to that. It's mostly people older than forty,
but it's largely because people hang upsthat people have in their youth, as
well as a fear of exploitation thatsome have athough there's really no evidence that

(41:29):
this ever occurs, but there areplenty of young people who do it as
well who join these clubs, Butit does tend to be people who skew
a little bit over the forty mark. There are some communities that are entirely
nude and even have nude grocery storesand other workplaces. The idea of that
is super fascinating to me. Yeah, and most nudists still have sex,
but in private, and most toiletsare also still private. Yeah, most

(41:52):
nudists, if they are like reallyin that community and they spend most of
their time there, they'll call peoplewho wear clothes textiles. It's kind of
like how the Vetan community calls alot of people to eat meat murderers.
Yeah, it's like they say,you know, say, it's a very
like funny thing to me, like, oh, a bunch of textiles.
Public nunity is illegal in most countriesin the world except for Spain, Denmark,
Netherlands, France, Germany and Norway. Yea, and most nudist clubs,

(42:15):
you are expected to bring a personaltowel around with you for sitting on
things. This is something I founda lot of thinking, like, if
you're sharing a lot of butt spacewith people, it's considered common courtesy to
just have a little hand towel withyou. They did make the joke.
They're like, if you're leaving skidmarks by simply sitting on a chair,
you are not wiping properly. Butnevertheless, it's appropriate for you to be

(42:35):
bringing a towel around so people atleast feel like they're not swapping so much
stuff in those spaces. Never thoughtthat we would say the term sharing butt
space on the show, but herewe are. We have arrived at episode
three twenty four. It took threehundred and twenty four episodes to say sharing
butt space. So thank you forthat, Abraham, You've made my entire
life. You welcome. Most nudisthide the fact that they are nudists when

(42:57):
they are outside of their nude communities, including on social media. They tend
to not advertise that so much.The I can be really stigmatizing. Men
and women might have two different issuesthat people might think about, like what
if you're a nudist and you're awoman in your cycle begins or you're menstruating.
What about men who if they getan erection? So I was able
to find some information on this.Obviously, those are very private things that

(43:19):
most people handle covered by clothes.Menstruating women are likely to simply wear a
tampon and just keep doing the nudelick. There's a certain amount of just
what has been built into those culturesand acceptance that women's bodies do something a
little bit differently and that they haveto deal with that in a particular way,
and everyone's just kind of cool withit. They're like, yeah,
well, that's the thing that happens. Men getting an erection is something most
people wouldn't think much about. Itwould be considered inappropriate to acknowledge or talk

(43:42):
about it. Again, it's notabout sexually, you're not pointing out sexual
bits of things that people have goingon. If they started doing something about
it, then they'd probably be askedto leave. Typically, it's just like
there's a thing that happens. Mostpeople ignore it and just go about their
day unless the person who has thedirections it's being weird and then they're pushed
out. Yeah that makes sense becauseagain, this is not about sex and

(44:05):
it's not about predation. So likeyou got to make sure that it's a
safe space. And if I starttalking about my direction in multiple places,
I mean, and arguably that's kindof a social norm anywhere, right True,
there's very few situations where talking aboutmy direction would be like considered socially
appropriate right now. Nudist clubs oftenprefer couples and may not allow single people
to enter. I would imagine thisis going to be me arm chairing for

(44:25):
a second, I would imagine becausesometimes there are single folks that show up
thinking that it's like a dating club. Yeah, I think that's part of
it. I have heard that alot of them tend to skew. If
they're going to allow single people andit's only women, they tend to go
ratio there of like more women thanmen, and mostly to avoid it being

(44:46):
I guess, creating an asymmetry wherethere's a different power dynamic there that could
exist, particularly sexually, and theydon't want women to feel like they're sort
of being stalked, you know,like a herd of gazelle or something.
Yeah, I think it's reasonable.Yeah, to allow them sort of to
either be on equal footing with orout number has been sort of the plan.
A lot of them follow, notexclusively, but that is a place

(45:07):
and some of them. One thingyou might also worry about is eating in
the nude, because these are clubswhere people spend a lot of their time,
sometimes almost all of their time.They do eat in the nude in
public. It's actually fairly common.I actually saw some pictures of this when
I was looking around trying to findthe information, and people are looking very
happy with a plate on their lapand just enjoying whatever food they're having with

(45:28):
no other clothes on. I lovethat although clothing is now allowed, sexy
clothing might not be. So nolingerie in some of these places. Yeah,
there was a time when there wasno clothing allowed at all, but
they really try to make it notagain have beat sort of sexually PDA.
So public displays of affection are strictlyprohibited, and most are all of these

(45:49):
clubs. Again that's not about sexthing, and so they really don't like
people doing anything romantic out in public. Right, kids maybe welcome, depending
on laws and ordinances. So that'sreally dependent on states and and you know
maybe even counties and cities and stufflike that and different legal protections and whatnot.
There was a couple I read aboutwho is basically raising their kids in
a nudist club, and that wasthat was actually fairly common there. There

(46:10):
was a lot of kids who arethere yea in other countries. And again
it's they when they stopped treating ourbodies if it's there's something wrong with them
and they need to be hidden andthey need to be obscure, they stopped
treating them as if they're sexual objects. Then it doesn't really matter anymore,
you know, Right, the kidsdon't see it, it's anything weird,
and adults don't see anything weird,and it just becomes like people are just
people in their bodies, but thereare circumstances under which they might try and

(46:34):
avoid that, and so it justdepends on where you're at and what the
rules are. Right, there areover two hundred and sixty clothing optional resorts
in the US. Clothing optional isa key term you'll often here to describe
a place that encourages a nudist ornaturalist way of going about the club.
But it's more than one per state, and matter of fact, that is
more than two per state. Thatis more than two per state, So

(46:55):
you go find the nearest one nearyou. Also too, I just did
a quick search. There are somethat are LGBTQ plus friendly. So there
are some that are like ranked anddescribed in a lot of those communities.
So like that, if that's somethingthat you're interested in and you don't fall
on that gender binary, there arethese clubs that exist for you as well.

(47:16):
So I was like, I wascurious about that as we were kind
of going through this. Yeah,the thing is too, and I think
it's important, Like by just thevery nature of being naked around other naked
people, you're going to notice eachother stuff. But if you're staring,
it's inappropriate. So that's kind ofa big thing. It's like you're gonna
notice it, just like you wouldnotice somebody's shoes or clothes or whatever.
You're going to notice the types ofthings. But if you're staring, then
it becomes a problem. Yep.Absolutely, So that's kind of what we

(47:38):
have to say about nudists, naturists, those who choose to not wear clothes.
And I think just one of thebig things I'd say is this is
not a place where people go tophotograph one another exploit each other sexually.
It's not a bunch of horny guysor pedophiles. It's really just a mix
of people who are just being peoplewithout clothes. One of the things also
point out is sexual exploitation happens inplaces where people are always wearing clothes,

(48:00):
right, It's not like clothes wearingas any in any way helped guard against
any kind of exploitation happening. Sogiving basically zero rates of problematic sexual behavior
and nudist groups it's possible that partof the reason for inappropriate sexual behavior is
the modesty, the quote unquote modestyof requiring clothing all the time. Just
sort of food for thought there,And I think it's worth when we talk

(48:22):
about sort of clothing and fashion downthe road what it creates. But like
it's possible that this creating this tantalizingsort of sex appeal of clothing that is
meant to hide an obscure and teaseor whether you know whatever it's meant to
do, like just obscure in general, and create this image of what might
be underneath for those people. Maybethat's that helps foster that. But I

(48:45):
think just to say that, like, wearing clothes is definitely not stopping sexual
exploitation from happening. It's not stoppingpeople from you know, behaving inappropriately sexually
toward one another out in public spacesand in these nudist clubs. That's not
happening, right, And again theydo have some rules about that, but
I think that it also like itseems to naturally incentivize against that type of

(49:05):
behavior anyway. So just something tothink about there, right, And I
think another take on point too isit's at the end of the day,
we all have naked bodies, andthat's really all this is about. Is
people have naked bodies, and theywant to have a comfortable space to be
able to live without clothing and tobe able to not necessarily expose themselves but
just have to not worry about thethings that kind of have those social norms

(49:27):
that are created around modesty and clothingand all that. So we all have
one just get over it. Everybody'snaked, yeah, and body image and
all kinds of stuff. So right, I think that probably, I mean,
I would say, like, youknow, go out and check one
of these places out if you're interestedin joining. They probably don't want like
a ton of people trying to signup for these just because I think it
creates the opportunity for people to startbeing weird in those spaces, and they

(49:50):
kind of want to probably control andfilter what like who are becoming members and
why they're becoming members and that sortof thing. But generally speaking, I
think they would mostly welcome a lotof members as long as people are doing
it in earnest, like they wantto be a part of that culture and
not because they're doing they're trying tobe weird, and again they will kick
you out if you're being weird.So I don't think of these as places
to go be weird and objectify otherpeople. Think this is a place to

(50:14):
go for yourself where you then getto enjoy the freedom that comes with a
naturist way of life. Yeah,these aren't humans views, Yes, very
much. So that's what airports arefor. Yeah, or malls? All
right? Anything else you have toadd in our discussion about nudism before we
transition to our next topic for theday. No, I think that covers

(50:36):
it perfect, all right. Well, what we like to do, and
if you've been listening to us fora while, you already know this.
But we find something during the weekthat we are in the preceding weeks or
months that we have enjoyed, andthat we say, well, you know
what, I would like to recommendother people check this thing out too,
and just just maybe they'll find joyin it also, or maybe they'll already
found joy in and they just liketo hear someone validating that experience. Either

(50:57):
way, we call that recommendations.And before we do that, I'd like
to tell you that if you've likedtoday's discussion, you'd like to support the
show, you can join us onPatreon. If you do that, then
you get a bunch of access toother things, such as behind the scenes
episodes, videos of us wearing clothesunfortunately, yeah, notes, all kinds
of stuff. You get early accessto episodes, add free episodes, that

(51:19):
sort of thing, so you canyou can join us on Patreon to get
those benefits. Trying to get abunch of people to sign up so we
can do sort of an online hangoutwith y'all if we can get up to
fifteen patren supporters. In addition tothat, you can leave us a rating
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every Wednesday in your feed. Youcan go over to our merch store.
We've got water bottles, coffee,mugs, sweaters, shirts, all kinds

(51:42):
of things patches, I think goover there, So go check out o
our merg store. And so anyway, the people who and another benefit you
get to join us on Patreon isthat I'm going to shout out your name
for being awesome and the people whohave already supported us. So that list
of awesome people includes Mike m MeganLeila, Mike t, Justin, Kim,
Joshua, Ad, Stephanie, Oliviaand Brian. Thank you all very
much for being our Patreon people.I love y'all. You're our audience and

(52:07):
we love you all. In addition, I like to make sure I say
thank you to my team who helpedmake this happen. Writing and fact checking
from Shane Jess and myself, audioproduction and editing from Justin, and our
social media coordinator is Emo Wilson,who does a fantastic job. So if
you go to social media and youlike to talk to us about nudism and
nude clubs and joining one and whereyou've been to a nude club, you

(52:29):
can do that over on social media, and we're on all the social media
platforms, the major ones that arenot crazy. You can also email us
directly info at WWDWWD podcast dot com, and we really love hearing from people
like please reach out and talk tous about those things. But I think
that is all I have until weget to some recommendations. Yeah, I
think that sounds good. Perfect.Let's give one more swing to the advertisers

(52:51):
and then we'll come back with therecommendations. We're back, so one more
quick audio transition, and then we'lltell you some things that we think you
should check out recommendations. You know, everybody knows that I listened to a

(53:16):
ton of music. Like I mean, we both listened to a ton of
music, but I tend to recommenda lot of music on here. You
listen to more than I do.This is a fact. I listened to
so much music. And this lastFriday, at the time of this recording,
this last Friday put out a bunchof like a bunch of bands put
out a bunch of really great things. As a bonus recommendation, go listen
to the new Chamber record if youlike kind of like really intense tech metal

(53:36):
stuff. I feel like you wouldlike that in particular knowing knowing the bands
that you've been in and stuff too. Yeah, But the one I want
to recommend is my favorite that cameout of these releases, and that's a
songwriter named Ja Jail spelled j Ay E j y l E. That's
his stage name he goes. Hisreal name is Evan Patterson. He was
in Breather Resist and Young Widows andBlack Cross. He was in a bunch

(53:58):
of these bands out of Louisville.Well, Jjail put out his first full
like not his first full length,but a full length called Don't Let Your
Love Life Get You Down. Andit is incredible. The best way to
describe it is like really moody,really influenced by like goth folk if you're
familiar with like that type of sound. It's real dark, it's real brooding.
It's it sounds like it would bethe soundtrack for True Detective. Okay,

(54:22):
fun And this album is just incredible. It's just the guitar work on
it, the musicianship on it isreally really unique, really incredible, and
I've been loving it so I haven'tbeen able to stop listening to it since
it came out. Oh, Iam curious. I'm curious about this.
Yes, you see who sold it? Well, I have my moments,
I try, all right. Iam recommending a TV show it is just
came out with its second season recently. This is called Is It Cake?

(54:45):
This is a Netflix sort of realityTV show, if you will. That
is pits a bunch of bakers againsteach other to design cakes that look like
everyday objects. So the first seasonthey did like a cake that looked like
a hamburger. Or that look likea bowling pin. But it's really amazing
to see what people can do withcake decorating an art. And it's I

(55:07):
mean, you legitimately can hardly tellsometimes at all, often never the difference
between something that is a cake andsomething that is like a typewriter. Yeah,
I don't know if they did atypewriter, but they did do books
and stuff. They do an anincredible, incredible job. Someone didn't do
a printer. Actually, I knowthey think about it so wild. It's
wild, like you really you lookat it and you're like, that's just

(55:27):
that's just a printer, and thenthey cut into it with a knife and
you're like, oh my god,it's a cake. It's really neat to
see on the show. And anyway, so season two recently came out.
It's a lot of fun. It'sover on Netflix. So if you're if
you're on Netflix, go check outIs It Cake? Season two and season
one if you haven't seen it towatch them both. Yeah, it's so
fun. It's it's such a funlike and it's it doesn't require you to
like overthink it, like you justhave fun with it. Yeah. Yeah,

(55:52):
and it's it is a competition show, So there's like they sort of
whittle down like people who get tostay and have to go out every every
episode based primarily that are not apanel of judges can tell if they're from
a pile of objects, the whichone is cake? Right? Exact sort
of the thing they put them onpedestals and they have to choose. So
anyway, I think that's what wehave to say about. Is it cake?
And don't let your love life getyou down? And nudists? Is

(56:15):
there anything you like to add oranything I forgot before we say or goodbyes?
Be excellent to each other, beexcellent, walk around naked in your
house or something and get used toit. Yeah, whatever you want to
do. Check out the clubs ifyou're interested, or don't do any of
those things. If you're not comfortablewith it, do you do you?
Yeah? I just wanted to tosort of share the words as we learned
about this, but I think that'sall I have. So I appreciate you

(56:36):
so much for listening. Thank youfor recording with me today. Shane.
So this is Abraham and this isShane. We're out see up. You've
been listening to why we do whatwe Do. You can learn more about
this and other episodes by going toWWDWWD podcast dot com. Thanks for listening,
and we hope you have an awesomeday.

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