Questioning Intentions & Lighter Than A Feather - Towers of Midnight chapters 6 & 7 - EP549

Morgase is having a tough time with Perrin, just like us! Lan has a new sword prodigy, Galad is remarkably lacking in followup questions, and Sulin isn’t quite done being on the page yet.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is the wheel of Time. Spoilers podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Recording is on, and uh, we've got a pair of
chapters today to get through.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Boy do we?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Boy? Do we? Uh? This this is this is like
everyone hashes on the Malden plot with Paren. This is
so much worse. This is really the part of Parent.
Like the Malden plot was only six chapters altogether, spread
across like three books, four books. Like, it's just not

(00:53):
very much content. This going back and forth on Paren,
over and over and over again. It's too much. It's
too much. We moved beyond this. The wolf Head banner
doesn't need to be taken down again. We've moved beyond it.
But yet we're doing it. We're doing it in these chapters.
We're taking down the wolf Heed banner. A and again.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Ah, I don't even have words. I just have screaming.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
This is going to be the tone of the podcast.
If you do not want to listen to the tone
of that podcast, please exit last Please. We will be
back the next chapter with a more positive tone. But
oh my god, except for the little Lamb segue, which
even that was like pretty pretty mid these are just
these are hard chapters to get through.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
Next week We'll get to Matt and we'll have more fun,
I promise. But for now, buckle down, gird your loins,
get a stick to bite on.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
We gotta do this, Queen more Case, would you care
to read us in to these chapters?

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Oh god, I'm just so much focusing on pair and
being the problem. I'm waiting for you to do the honors, all.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Right, just because it's I mean, it might as well
be parents pov, but somehow it's Morgaze's POV.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
It's different, novelty.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
You get to think about Tea a little bit. Oh Honestly,
the most entertaining part of the chapter for me is
her serving tea and her little thoughts about how to
do it best and what people's preferences.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Are, which I just don't care for. Shall we say?

Speaker 2 (02:27):
I bit do the reading and then okay, okay, we'll
talk about it when we get there.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Chapter six, Questioning Intentions and our symbol is the Blacksmith's puzzle,
Margaye's Treckand once Queen of and Or served Tea, she
moved from person to person in the large pavilion paren
had taken from Maldon. It had sides that could be
rolled up and no tent floor. Large though the tent was,

(02:53):
there was barely enough room for all who had wanted
to attend the meeting. Paren and Faya were there, of course.
Sitting the ground. Next to them sat golden eyed Elias
and tam Althor, the simple farmer with the broad shoulders
and the calm manners. Was this man really the father
of the dragon re born? Of course, Morgaze had seen
Randolphor once, and the boy hadn't looked much more than

(03:16):
a farmer himself. Beside Tam sat parent's dusty secretary, Seben Balwer.
How much should Paran know of his past jury? Grady
was there, also, wearing his black coat with a silver
sword pin on the collar. His leathery farmer's face was
hollow eyed and still pale from the sickness he'd suffered recently. Nil,
the other Aushamon, was not there. He hadn't yet recovered

(03:37):
from his snake bites. All three eyes to die were there,
said and Massuri sat with the wise Ones and Honors
opposide Beryline, occasionally shooting glances at the six wise Ones.
Gallienne sat on Beryline's other side. Across from them sat
Aleandra and Arganda, the officers made Morgaze think of Gareth Brynn.

(03:58):
She hadn't seen him in a long while, not since
she'd exceled him for a reason she still couldn't quite explain.
Very little about that time in her life made sense
to her.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Now.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Had she really been so infatuated with a man she'd
banished Amelin and the Laurian? Anyway, those days were gone now.
Margez picked her way carefully through the room and saw
that people's cups were kept full. It was a long reading,
but I just wanted to show off how many names
I could get, right, So Jesus I was.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Gonna say, is that just a list of that's a
name recap list right off the top? Just check check
check check, check, check check, Like I haven't forgotten about
these characters, these characters are these characters? Like and with
a little bit of a recap thrown in.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
There, Yeah, it was just so many names. Because she's
a panning shot across the entire tent. It's a perfect
POV to get away with doing that sort of a listicle.
Who's who?

Speaker 2 (04:49):
I guess I do like the I mean her POV.
She's not sure why she did what she did back
in and or they're making a point of that that
she's not aware of the compulsion. She's not aware that
she was under the control of Rovin the whole time.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
It really reminded me of the line that Gowan was
saying in the last episode about not thinking about his
mother very much. It was kind of almost the same
kind of a sentiment of just like, huh, there's this weird,
fuzzy blank spot in my past that I don't really
think about much, Like she's thinking about it more than
Gowin is thinking about his equivalent hole. But it kind
of reminded me of that, like, huh, this is what

(05:28):
post compulsion looks like.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, yeah, I'm just saying that.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
The weakest theory I've heard worse from you.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Oh God, I'm so sorry. I know I've come up
with some stinkers in my day, but you tried talking
as many hours as we do and don't come up
with a few bad exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
So, yeah, she's doing tea while we'd start out with
a very reasonable discuss about picking up on the blight
village and how did the burning of that go before
we get into ridiculous nonsense. But she's doing tea throughout
the whole thing, and in.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Skirts, dividing for writing yeap not pants not but they're
not not pants.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
Marga thinks about how her life is basically the same
as being at the shadow camp, except not being beaten,
which I'm like, great, glad, we're not going to spend
huge amounts of pages on that, right.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah. Well, being an indentured servant just like being a
slave without the beatings. Woooo, let's talk about capitalism.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
She feels really good about having value, you know, because
she's able to contribute and like bring value to the
society through selling of her labor. She feels like a person. Yeah,
I don't I don't love it. I don't love her
finding her life purpose through serving tea and being married,
but at the same time as a rebound for being queen.

(07:00):
I do kind of get it.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
But she's also being like, the better I serve Tea,
the closer I get to power. The closer I get
to power, the more I know about what's going on.
The more I know about what's going on, the more
I can have an influence. This woman does not want
to step away from power.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
No, but much like paren she's gonna spend a lot
of time telling us that she wants to step away
from power.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, oh totally.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
She really is a great advisor to Parent. They're well matched.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
Does she ever actually advise him? Doesn't she just like
go away once he learns that she's.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
She provides some pretty cogent advice during the whole gallad thing,
like she's running interference into earth camps pretty solidly. And
I think she also gives him some advice before he
meets Elaine and then puts in a good word with
him for him with Elaine, like she she does advisory
stuff with him. I just can't. I almost wish, like

(07:51):
I almost think she should stay with him long term,
you know, in his Manetheerine Court, maybe that would be
a good thing.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
I mean, I think in the last books that's technically
Elaine says, you are the Stewart. You're gonna be the
basically my diplomat to the Stewart of the two rivers
who is parent, right, So so yeah, she's basically gonna
be hanging out with Parent.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, she is exactly. She is well on her way
to becoming a good advisor to paren.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, And I think that's what her journey is supposed
to be about, right, is this like person who was
a queen and in the similar that Suan who was
humbled and then came back up and became advisor to Aguayne. Right,
that sort of more Geyes's story. Sure, a different leader,
a different one of our two rivers.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Five right, like because it always has to be one
of the two rivers.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
That's Teverian. Yeah, just little little things like Aleander expected
a cup to be full. I think those are a
little clever, like just sort of little character moments about
who they are, and like the way they like their teeth,
the way Parent like gestures around and can knock it
over and be careless, and the way the one likes
the Missouri likes the sip or tea when she's nervous

(08:58):
like this, there's a lot of good examples of these
little ticks about these people. I like that rounds up
those side characters. It gives them a little more personality
rather than five eyes at eye stood in the crowd
to open the gateway whenever Parent needed it, you know.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
So yeah, I like that.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
I like that. That's like that. That's why it's my
favorite part of this chapter, you know.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Sure, And there's also the whole weird thing with Oleandra,
where Like Oleandra was really hotty during Maldon, but now
she feels really uncertain about their relationship, where as fail
understood how leadership worked and came out of Malden understanding
how to go back into the hierarchy. And it's just
you know, again, Margaze is a shrewd political operator, so
her thoughts on that are kind of clear and interesting

(09:38):
to be in the head of. But yeah, she's making
a bunch of observations and then telling herself to stop
cataloging all that information because it's.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Just it's as natural as breathing. That's politics to her, right,
is recognizing what everyone's motivations are, what they want to do,
you know, it's it's it's demonstrating that she's a good,
good politician. There's the plot line where paren keeps getting
more recruits and he keeps wanting to turn them away,
but they keep staying because Teverin needs troops, and I
wish he would just accept that instead of constantly trying

(10:06):
to send people away.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
I mean, he even manages to insult Beryline in the
course of all this, like I need to get rid
of you, you and you and berylines, I didn't realize
you needed to get rid of me, given that I
just helped you retrieve your wife from a war camp.
Confusing turn of events and turn of feelings. Mister leader
not a leader, And I mean really that goes for
so many of them, right, And it turns out that

(10:29):
the math maths that he can't get rid of them
through gateways. But yeah, he keeps recruiting people and trying
to get rid of them. But it's like, why are
you getting rid of people? This is rude and ineffective.
It's stupid that.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
Because he's got what like twenty thousand people I think
is the number.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Something like that, and he's trying to send them all
back and put it all back the way it was
so that with the last battle can just proceed without him.
And it's like, you have a giant army of people
who want to be here. This is a ridiculous thing
for us to spend so many pages on.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Right, No, go follow Rand. If you want to fight,
you you follow Rand. We are following Ran through you
Like that's still.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
It's your job as one of the three. It's literally
your job. And you've known this since book one. Moraine
has been telling you that the three of you are important, like,
obviously this is your role.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
And this is why I think this part of Parent
is really poorly written. Right. We forgive him for some
of the later like we like the teleporting teleroan Riad
magic stuff whatever, that's fun. This this is hard because
this feels like Parent again is reverting Matt had reverted.
I feel like all the characters reverted back to like
book five maybe characters.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
He's still fighting the banner that he's been using from
multiple campaigns since book five ridiculous. Yeah, yeah, now he
insists I'm burning it, and of course, because plot it
doesn't actually get burned, he still keeps one and he's
happy that he has it later because yeah, this was
all just regression to let Sanderson feel comfortable writing the
actual progressed Parent.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
You know, he ignores TAM's advice.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
He does consult with fight You.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
No, he tells them to go follow Rand and then yeah,
and so then finally they're like, okay, we can't send
everybody away. What can we do with gateways? And so
then he starts sort of going but it's like, Okay,
you just burned your banner and now you're commanding them
and telling them what to do with their gateways and
where to send people on how to basically deploy the forces.

(12:21):
What are you doing? Like, why are you if you're
not going to be the leader? Stopped acting like.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
One right, He's like, well, my Ashaman can can't do this,
and my Ashamon can't do that, and I don't want
this happening to all these other people, and I can't
leave Gil and the others. Why are you taking so
much command while burning your banners? This was really cute
in book four when you had just started doing it,
but like it is old now.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
So they send some messengers to Rand hopefully asking for
more Ashaman through the gateways.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Paulber really wants to get someone to Kyrie in and
angles for that, and it's.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
A whole thing himself. Yea. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
And then we introduced the concept of circles because it's
really late in the series to Dopy talking about circles.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
Right, right, it's just an assumption now that that information
is spread because all the eyes that I know about it, right,
So they've just not been talking about it at this point.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yeah, it's a silly thing to not be talking about.
So we're talking about it. Yay, good, excellent. This is
the beginning of getting us to Alma alan Air. Right. Yes,
it gives us bigger gateways, but it also gives us
magic hammers totally.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
And Bovara and Androl right, that whole relationship is very
much opens. They make form a circle and that's what
triggers there double bonding.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
And then Dara gives parents such a great line. You
hardly seem interested in your position as a chief. Most
of the time. Respect is the thing earned and not demanded.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, because love that bar.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
Exactly what we've been saying, Like pared, you're both abdicating
responsibility and assuming it at the same time. This is ridiculous.
The AE agree with us. So again it's like Sanderson,
why are you doing this? You clearly know this is
annoying because you have the IEO pointing out that it's annoying,
So why are you subjecting us to this?

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Do you think there's any reason for all were to
want to go to Kyrie in other than just he
has information and contacts there.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yeah, I think he has. He knows that there's a
lot of male waiting for him that will catch him
up on world events. In Kyriene because of how his
agents are spread out. I don't think it's anything particularly
plot relevant, it's just how his network is set up.
And Sanid also really wants to go to Kyrie for
some reason, and Fayel sends a specific member of chofa Yelle.
It's like a whole D and D rating party is

(14:24):
going to do some reconnaissance in kyrian look.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
Up Cianid and see if we can figure out what
is going on with her.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
Oh yeah, Barber says he wants to go to the
school that Rand established. I bet he has so many
eyes and ears at that school or at the baker's
shop right next door to the school. Obviously, because Subtlety.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Don't have a lot with Cianid's motivations. She just seems
to like doing adventury stuff. She's a green. She likes
to beyond adventures.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
She's got two warders and the love of travel or whatever.
It's good to go.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
She always just seems to be like one of those
I said. I was like, yeah, let's go, I'm fighting
the last Battle's sweet? All right? You know, Baron, you're
a leader, Okay, follow you right there.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
I love to see it.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
She's one of the good ones.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
More gaze wonders about Ball were potentially betraying her to
paren and thinking about how she should have, you know,
asked the price of his silence, and like we know
that Ball were just very quietly and unobtrusively never mentioned
it once because he has a weird code of honor
as well as being fine putting all of his skills
to use for the White Cloaks for decades.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
I think it's this idea of like, my network didn't
tell me that that's personal knowledge. I keep my secrets.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
Hmm, Okay, that could be the line he's drawing. He's like,
if I got it through a spy, it's fair game.
But if I learned it in personal confidence, then there's
a different code, right, I could buy that. I could
see that being the weird brain pretzel he goes through.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
That's how I've always split that in my head, that like,
why doesn't he say anything? And it's like, oh, because
like he was basically part of their group and part
of their you know, yeah, hates the Cloak. He hates
what the like Cloaks did to them. He's gonna, you know,
make sure their secrets are kept. Enemy of my enemy
type situation, right, and he.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Had their trust and confidence. Plus he knows that like
she abdicated like that became knowledge to the group eventually, right,
like the right, she's valueless and they he helped her escape,
so it would be like a serious breach of trust
to then betray her. So but it makes sense that
she suspects him because he's a white cloak secretary from
where she's sitting, right.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
Who's wormed his way into Paren's thing and is somehow
not saying anything, right, like.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yeah, I think it's sweet that Balwer never once mentions
it to her either or not sweet, but like it's
so interesting, an interesting insight into what his honor code is.
He won't put her worries at ease, that's not his job.
He'll just keep her secrets.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
It is it also possible that Robert Jordan forgot they
knew each other and put them in the same room,
and then Sanderson had to come back and be like, so, yeah,
thanks for not mentioning.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
That I can't have because no. The thing that's weird
that Sanderson dropped was that Baalwar should have known Galad's
personal sigil. That's the detail that Sanderson messed up.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Well, it's just the sigil of the Lord Captain commander though,
Like and that's just a generic like the presidential seal, right,
like it's the same for every president.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah. But later they get a letter from Galad and
it's signed with his personal the impressed with the seal
on the wax whatever. It's just I remember there's a
scene later where Ball was like, well, I've never seen
this one, and I'm like, that bullshit. You've absolutely seen
Galad's personal sigil before, because he was He's a white clok.

(17:39):
He was a white cloak, he was on the rules,
he was on a hostage list. Niall was threatening more
Gaze with what could happen to Goalad, Like you absolutely
know his personal iconography, but Sanderson forgot about that. Anyway,
mar Gaze thinks about not going to Elaine and and
or that's risky, and then she looks at talent for

(18:00):
and thinks about how cute he is, and then paren
just completely poop storms all over that parade in the
most awkward and cringy way possible.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Oh that, like, it's about time you two should be married.
It's like only Lenny can do that.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, it's like let's put this silliness behind us by
ordering you to get married. And it's like, again, how
are you not a leader, sir if you think you
have the right to tell two of your inferiors to
just get shocked already, come on, But yeah, only Lenny
can do that. Only Lenny's allowed to say that and
not be a complete putts. And honestly, I don't even
think she should say it.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
I feel like that's a moment where Paren is trying
to ape his elders instead of just being me exactly,
He's trying to be and like he's trying to be
in command, and so he's like, well, I've seen my
elders make this say these two young people need to
get married, and I see these two people mooning. Maybe
I should be the one to say they should get married, which, again,
is so ridiculous because he just gave up all his power,

(18:52):
like the fact that he just gave up his power
and he's trying to literally marry people like.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
What, which is just ah, yeah, it's so ridiculous, And
I don't.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
It's just parents never quite this ubtuse. He's slow thinking,
but he rarely thinks and contradictions, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah, it's he's doing his best Lenny impression without understanding
what makes Lenny work.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
It if some more Gates choose him out rightfully.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah, which unfortunately means sort of stomping on Talon for
his hopes and dreams temporarily. And she regrets that, but
she does it anyway.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
She's like, I will marry you when you ask nicely,
at the right time, not right now.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
And she's going to tell him that just as soon
as she you know, eavesdrops a little bit. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
No, And as much as we do criticize Sanderson, he
did finish the books and in a satisfying way. Right.
There's weak points to point out, but like.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
No, we will mercilessly point out the weak points because
we will also be unabashedly praising the high points loud.
We get equal amplitude of both directions.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
A little bit about the guy shine and how they're
adapting to being free and like pretty normal stuff. I
don't know, we know how guys shine work.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
It's just the whole looking through familiar things through unfamiliar eyes. Yeah,
it's just you know, Sanderson playing with I get to
write familiar stuff through eyes that we don't usually look
through and yeah, Morgaze is weirdly clueless about how I
el work, given she spent such an intense amount of
time with them. But whatever, these are not shidoh, which

(20:26):
is different.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
There are eleven chapters with Morgez's POV, four of which
are in this book.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, we don't get to see out of her eyes
much but sometimes and yeah, she's sort of thinking about
stuff and how she should apologize to talin' wore when
her attention gets caught by maidens racing into the camp
to tell Paren not about a blight village this time.
This time it is about the White Cloaks.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yes, it was like a fake out in the last chapter.
It was like, is the white looks no, basically light,
We're going to burn that. Now it's the white cloaks.
But yeah, so that's the what. And the white Cloaks
have been seeking them out right because they found their
scouts and heard where they'd be coming from. And so
the white Cloaks have been marching backwards to encounter Paren

(21:14):
and so surprise, surprise, and here we are.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, and I believe you mentioned a long time ago
that this is one of the last things that Sulan
does on the page is bring news of the White
Cloaks to Paren. Like, she basically drops off the face
of the earth. And I believe you said this is
her last really notable instance. I'm hoping I'm wrong about that.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Let me see, she's in a few she's in a
few more chapters here at the end. Okay, cool, but
she's not done yet, And it's possible I don't see her.
I don't see her in Memory of Light. But it's
possible that Encyclopedia Watt hasn't necessarily cataloged all of the
final book.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
So never mind.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
I think she's in the last battle. I think she's
she I couldn't.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
I remember there being just a discussion of like, she
kind of falls off the face of the earth and
it's a bummer. But apparently I'm over exaggerating how complete
that was.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
She arrives back to observe Paren create Hollinar. She's part
of the parent's procession when they meet with Elaine in Camelin,
and then that's really the last we see of her.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
So this is one of the last things that she
does that's actually interesting whatsoever. And it's not really that interesting.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
She's just a messenger yeah, she confirms that Ran vowed
Raven and and Or, causing more geyst or Can to
drop her tray and shock. Right, so oh that's important.
That's actually helpful. And she's like there when the bubble
of evil where the weapons come to life.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
Right, yeah, I remember her in that fight.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
So she's okay, cool.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
Never I'm panicky prematurely still got more soone.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
To get through. We got more Solon, but yeah, she's
not really a force. She doesn't really say a lot
in any of those things. She's just sort of there.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
I think I really wanted to see more Sulan, Like
for some reason, she's one of those really small characters
that I'm particularly hurt by not getting more of. Like
there's lots that I'm like, yeah, we should have had
more of them, but Sulea, and she was so intensely
present during the Fires of Heaven and then she just
drops off the face of the earth.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
You wanted her to get the Talon bar treatment exactly.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
She's just of all the ieal baddies, she's one of
the baddest I mean baddies in the good way, not
in the evil way. Yeah, face of the Maidens, and
it's just Oh well anyway, Yeah, it.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Seems weird that she wasn't more of a force leading
the Maidens in the last battle, right exactly. Yeah, because
you had the wise Ones fighting with the one power.
I don't feel like we saw a lot of the Maidens.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
I think they went on or guarding a lot of
different people, like wise Ones, yes, sister wives of Wise Ones.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
When weren't they like what were they guarding Rand at
the shale goal? Because they carry his.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
Honor, right exactly. I think they were really just doing
honor guard stuff. I don't think they were out on
the front lines because you know, they're the Maidens, they're
the elitist of the elite. So yeah, that's the end
of what I have for the chapter.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yep, same nice chapter. Hey, we get a little bit
of a land break in between the parent stuff. So
just a slight you know, a brush of breeze of

(24:20):
fresh air coming in as you are saturated in the light,
just that hint of before you go back to smelling.
You know, the blight lighter than a feather. And we
have the hair and marked sword. Because it's land, the
air felt calmer at night, though the thunder still worn land.
That not all was well in his weeks traveling with

(24:40):
buelin that storm above seemed to have grown darker. After
riding southward, they continued on to the east. They were
somewhere near the border between Candor and Saldaea, on the
plain of Lances, towering weathered hills, steep sided like fortresses
rows around them. Perhaps they'd missed the border. There often

(25:03):
was no marker on these back roads, and the mountains
cared not which nation tried to claim them. Master andre
Bulen said from behind, Land had purchased a horse for
him to ride, a dusty white mare. He still let
his pack horse Scouter Bulun caught up to him. Land
insisted on being called andre One follower was bad enough.

(25:25):
If nobody knew who he was, they couldn't ask to
come with him. He had Buln to thank, inadvertently for
the warning of what Ninive had done. For that, he
owed a man of debt. Bulun did like to talk, though,
Master andre Bulen continued, If I may suggest we could
turn south at the burnt cross roads. Yes, I know

(25:45):
away point in in that direction that serves the very
best quail. We could turn eastward again on the road
to south Mettler a much easier path. My cousin has
a farm along that road, cousin on my mother's side,
Master Andre, and we could we continue this way, but
south met there's a much better roadway and therefore much

(26:07):
better traveled too. Bulin Bulin's side, but fell silent. Hadori
looked good around his head, and he had proven surprisingly
capable with the sword, as talented a student as Land
had seen in a while.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
So he's almost as good as Rand with the sword.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
Right, is that what I'm here?

Speaker 1 (26:27):
I'm going to contender.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
There's a certain amount I think someone said, like, isn't
it odd that all of these butchers and bakers suddenly
find themselves with the talent for swords and all these
old soldiers, Like yeah, I feel like there was a
certain amount of like the pattern is pulling on people
and making them ready in this moment to fight the

(26:49):
last battle.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yeah, I'd agree with that. I mean, really, in many ways,
Bulin was kind of tapped by the pattern early on
because he did interact with Land briefly in New Spring, Right,
he was always destined to be with Land's final charge
until last, until near the very end of the battle.
Like that was kind of always his destiny ever since
that first faithful moment twenty years ago.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
Mm hmm. And of course this is Land's ridiculous desire
to hide from his destiny, which is leading a bunch
of troops in the last battle who are going to
sport the king, right.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
I mean, it's slightly cuter than when Paren does it,
but it's still annoying.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
It's a little annoying. It's a little cuter because he
gives in. Yeah, and he doesn't like bitch about.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
It forever and ever and ever, and he's not regressing.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, he's not regressing.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
This is how he has been for twenty years. He
has been pulling this line. This is exactly who he's
been the whole books.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
And by the time he gets twenty thousand troops, he's like, yeah,
I got an army, right, Like, deal with it where
we're attacking, right, Like that's the parent. On the other hand,
is trying to send his troops away.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah. Land gives in and admits what's happening at like hundreds,
He does not need to get to twenty thousand and
still be like who No, But for now he's still
in denial, and it is very much an echo of
parents issues. You're like, wow, sometimes I guess this is
just how people are. This is just a thing people do.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
And if that twenty thousand number is off, forgive me.
I don't think I confirm that. We keep quoting it.
It's close enough.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
It's an army whatever, right.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Whatever number they decided to make up exactly.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
So, Yeah, they go along the road and they see
a little in a little tiny town, and then there's
some men and they start stalking them, and then it
turns into a really funny repartee.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Right, we're not following you, you're following us.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
I command you not to follow me. Well, we're technically
in front of you. So also, you're not a king.
I would obey a king, but I don't see any
kings here. Like, it's really funny. They're all very much Yeah, yeah,
these are clever men playing with land, being like no,
silly boy, you don't get to do this on your own.
The Land's like, but we're riding to death and they're like, bro,

(29:00):
death is lighter than a feather, don't you know that
that makes the trip easier? Like, what are you talking about?
Why are you trying to save us from death? That
is cool.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Come on, man, it's your catchphrase. Bro. The best way
I love it it is it's a well done troll
because it's like you, you either take authority, in which
case we're following our king, or you don't take authority,
in which case you can't tell us what to do.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
You don't own the roads, dude, And unless you were
the king, I mean obviously then you would own the roads.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Unless you're the king. Any for the king, sure, yeah,
I mean obviously, but then then we're riding with our
king to battle, so you can't stop us either way.
So I mean, it's just it's a really it's a clever,
fun romp. It's a fun moment with Land where the
people around him frustrate his self destructive desires, which is

(29:48):
something that, like for me, is really important in fantasy books.
Yes that like, oh what was the series I used
to love? The Last Harold Mage was a trilogy by
Mercedes Lackey and both some of my first LGBT media, right,

(30:10):
because the main character is gay and then just this
self this being very self destructive, right, and being saved
and then like nurse back to health and care for
by the people around them, like I think there's just
really important themes in that book that I also see
a little bit here.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
Yeah, and you like to see it. You like to
see a flawed hero actually be meaningfully helped by the
people around them. That is a thing that you want
to see positively modeled in your fantasy media. It is
good for your brain to see that as an option,
like a.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
People a sacrifice of being appreciated.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah, and like, yeah, Landa is still being annoying at
this point, but we know what it's building to, So
it's fun to see how his followers also know what
it's building to and are just going to indulge his
little fantasy until he gets over himself.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
The two had become so he gets these two Malciary
and one of the guys I don't even think is Malciarry.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
He's just on Redd and with because the Malcyri are
all over the Borderlanders, right, so any given Borderlander might
know a Malchyry and be like, yeah, I'll sign on.
That's a good gofund me, that's a good kickstarter.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
I want to fight in the last battle, right, Like,
and because what's interesting, right, all the armies have traveled
south to meet with Rand, so who are all these
warriors who are left behind joining up with him? Right,
These are the people who are put down their sword
and became farmers, who were merchants, who are picking the
sword back up again. You know this, This one guy
is over seventy, right, he's retired like this. It's a

(31:38):
very like, not normal group of warriors he's picking up
just sort of the edges of the fact that, you know,
everyone in the Borderlanders knows how to fight, very ideal
in that way.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, and they all want to spit inside Blander's eye
very ieal right, they all want to do that, And
so of course they all want to join up with
the mythic king who's willing to take the crusty old
hard core of the Borderlands and lead them in a singular,
impressive strike. Like of course, men of all nations want
to get on board with following literal king Arthur in

(32:14):
the flesh, like who wouldn't, And yeah, Land is just like,
but I don't want to come on, everyone else wants
you to.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
And let's be honest, it's a good bet because Rand
fucking saves the day, right, like it's Land is saved
by Rand in that moment, and so those people do
ride one of the most successful raids to lead off
the Lost Battle, right, They they fight and they I mean,
they end up fighting for a very very long time
and a lot of them do die, but it's just

(32:43):
incredibly successful as one of the first battles of the
Lost Battle.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Yeah, and I ne you've played a really large role
in making that happen. Because Land finally allowed himself to
get married and fall in love and all that stuff.
He ends up with the dragon reborn and pulling on
your left at the last possible minute.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Nice. Yeah, yeah, Sanderson did it before ah endgame for sure,
for sure.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
And I only know about the endgame thing because so
many people have referenced that I have not actually watched endgame.
This is entirely cultural osmosis I have.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
I enjoyed the moment. I thought it was very well done.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
You are part of the osmosis that has gotten it
into my brain. So POV switch over to a leader
who actually admits he is a leader.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
To Galad, it feels like there's just this like slot machine,
a leader, Leader, Leader. Here's how to be a leader,
Here's how not to be a leader. Here's how to
be a leader. You know.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Yeah, and this Galad pov sort of flickers in and
out of Parents POV for the rest of the chapter.
It's like, really liked this so hard. We could just
talk about the one and then talk about the other,
because flipping back and forth is it's silly, it's too short.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah, it feels like he's trying to build tension by
flipping back and forth, like showing these things going on
at the same time, but there's just too many cuts
and too little going on for that to really be significant.
It feels like they're cutting them off like midway through
each sentence to flip back basically.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
So I say, we just talk about the Galad scene
and then go back and talk about the paths. Okay,
So yeah, Goalada is having breakfast. They're both having breakfast again.
We're very time sinked here, and by our comes in
and says, I have even more information. I have even
more to unveil this Pandora's Box goes farther and then
we get all the way back to Parents' original sin,

(34:34):
which is not the two rivers, it's not the golden eyes.
It's those two random white cloaks that he wolf raged
on back in book one, and that is going to
be the core of white Gallad thinks that he has
a right to prosecute pair and for murder and is
going to take all that time for a trial. It's
all about these two random white cloak dudes that died
before we ever knew their names. In Book freaking one,

(34:57):
it's parents original trauma after leaving the two rivers as
I from all the other traumas he suffered literally that
same day. It's all looping back around. Goalt is finally
getting looped into that over breakfast.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
No mention of the what was it tends of white cloaks,
Him and gall chopped to pieces in the because there's
no witnesses.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
I saw them, but she's not going to volunteer the information.
And Land and Moraine, but neither of them are likely
to come to bear on the situation.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
That was the thing that made in the first place.
She's like, oh this is this man can stand up.
Oh those were the good days.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, but yeah. Gold keeps pushing back with you sound
like a questioner, and then Buyer keeps being like, but
this is different. I have real receipts, and Galt is
unfortunately willing to listen. I guess it's good to listen
to all the facts, but he is easily swayed by
buy ours and reportation.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
And let's not forget that buyer has you know, I
believe this is totally canon Byar has been compelled by
Grendall to hate paren and try to assassinate him.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
And when did that happen? Did weh cannon? That was
like back in book two or so?

Speaker 2 (36:15):
Or is yeah, it's super early on. I might be
book four, but it's at some point I think after
the White Cloaks, or like, I think it's book four
because after they're busted up in the Two Rivers they
have to travel cross country. Or maybe it's no, maybe
you're right book two, it's after the sean Chan battle.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yeah. I thought that the high canon was that it
happened in the aftermath of Falm.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
That's true. Yes, in the aftermath of Palm. He has
to travel back to Lamadicia to meet with White Cloaks,
and that path takes them right through where Grendal is.
And so the assumption is he stumbled onto her fortress
or was close enough that he was brought within her influence,
and at that point was compelled to be her little

(36:57):
and then at some point we also see her mention
her little final like hidden dagger. I can't remember the
phrasing right now, because at some point she talks about
a trap that's hidden in plain sight.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
Yeah, her last secret weapon or.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
Something like that, her last secret weapon. And then that's
you know, that's why Bier tries just to basically assassinate
parn Is that he's been compelled.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
Right, and that's why Bornhold has to kill him, is
because buy Our is doing any legal extra judicial you know, murder,
and that's not cool. Yeah, so yeah, but also you know,
Gold is listening to facts and Buyer does have quite
the compelling tale that he relates here. Well, Gollod's breakfast
Porridge goes cold about how the Two Rivers went down,

(37:37):
which again I feel like Gold could be applying a
lot more critical thinking to this story, because buy Ours
take on what happened at the Two Rivers. It makes
no sense paren brought dark friends and shadows Baond to
the Two Rivers, which is full of dark friends, in
order to terrorize the two Rivers into following him as
dark friends. And that's how you know that he's a
dark friend. It's just very circular logic, and I'm in

(38:00):
that Galad has no follow up questions.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
Especially after his big speech about how like sometimes you
mistake people who disagree with us for dark friends, and
it's like, yeah, like parent, right, like why are you
taking Like this guy just called everybody in the circle
of everything that happened dark friends, and maybe some of
them were maybe some of them were just disagreeing with him. Yeah,
maybe some of them were just influenced by Oh, I

(38:26):
don't know, Vane, like the White Cloaks, Yeah exactly, or
yeah it's okay, No, it's frustrating that god, it's you
never like it. One. Stupidity is what pushes the plot forward,
and it's like, just why are you buying this story? Yeah,
be critical, be just a little critical.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
I want follow up questions rather than remembering that one
time that a boy from the Two Rivers kicked your
ass with a stick, right, Like, it's cute that there's
a little callback to Matt and the staff fight, but
a follow up question on any of Bayer's claims would
have been more useful for plot. So, yeah, he's just
making his accusations, Oh he killed these two white cloaks,
he was at Falma, he killed Bornhald's father, just you know,

(39:09):
charge after charge after charge, all.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
The encounters that we've seen, right, like over and over
and over again, and we're going to go over these
so many times during the trial, and like, I feel
like we go over these events tons in this book.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Oh yeah, and then galad says, oh okay, cool, So
what are we going to do about that? And Bayer
essentially says, we're gonna we're gonna buy our way into Gualadon.
We're going to free the Guila don and Queen from
her field, hes at this horrible shadow spawn, and then
it'll be a new a Medicia and we'll be able
to make Galadon great again and it's gonna be awesome.

(39:44):
And God is again very uncritically intrigued by this prospect.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
And just like that's not how the politics are actually working.
Like she's not enslaved him at all, she's supporting him allheartedly.
Like there's all these these issues with his point, right.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Because like and then he does the back and forth
of like, well, they're just farmers, we can get rid
of them so easily. Also, farmers are super dangerous and
Golad for once does have a critical thought and says,
you can't have it both ways. Dude, are they are
they dangerous or are they not dangerous? Like pick one?
But again this is not enough follow up a lot.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
Yeah, and the reality is that, like, yeah, they're dangerous
to the White Cloaks. The White Cloaks are a terrible
fighting force, absolutely atrocious. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
And then Galad says, well, if everything you told me
is true, I need to offer formal battle with Paranambaro, Like, dude,
please say that if again, slower to yourself, Like it's
ridiculous that you just take what you know is a biased,
bigoted zealot and you're just taking his word on it
and saying, well, I guess I'm gonna have to commit

(40:47):
our inferior fighting force to a suicide admission in order
to enact justice on your word alone. It's ridiculous. Bad leadership.
He embraces being a leader, but he's doing bad things
with that leadering annoying the correction.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
The twenty thousand soldiers is a number of White Cloaks.
Parents' army is bigger, so more than.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
Twenty thousand, Yeah, twenty thousand and growing rapidly meat. Oh yeah,
So back to Paren, I think, so is that it for? Yeah,
that's it for the gallad By. Our conversation got.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
That there's one more paragraph right there at the end,
and it's just like, why is that paragraph even there?
It says nothing, It means nothing.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
So now to recap Paren's breakfast conversation, he has his
whole running dialogue about the eating meat for breakfast thing,
which I think is hilarious because I'm a big fan
of eat breakfast for dinner and dinner for breakfast.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
And protein's good for breakfast.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
Lots of people eat meat for breakfast. The Fayel saying
it's strange to eat meat for breakfast. It's just a
weird classism thing. Don't do that. Don't judge people's breakfast choices.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Well, how many people eat bacon and eggs for breakfast?
That's basically what he's having is ham, which is basically
bacon and eggs.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
I mean, in America, far too many people have bacon
an extra breakfast every day.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
I think there's a little bit of a like a
meta commentary about like Fiel being I can't believe you
eat that, and it's like the most common American breakfast
that people eat all the time.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
I think it's supposed to communicate something about how he
is embracing his wolfy nature and it's coming out more
as he does the wolf thing, he gets more wolf.
I think that's what it's supposed to be a commentary on.
But it also does feel like a weird sideways jab
at American breakfast culture.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
But yeah, him just being like oh yeah, And again
this is sort of the reversion, Like I feel like
he accepted the fact that he ate meat and like
tonks of meat a long time ago. Like again, back
in book four, that was a thing where he was like,
oh yeah, I eat meat, and I'm like kind of
liking that more than eating porridge for breakfast.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Yeah, but we got to reiterate it because Sanderson needs
to write that. And Gall comes in and him and
parents sit on the floor and talk about scouty stuff
to do with the white cloaks, because again, we're bringing
these two forces together, so we have to see the
docking procedure from both sides, and Gall is the messenger in.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
This case, and he said he basically was scouting with Elias.
Elias used his wolf eyes to see the faces of
the captives, which included Basil Gill. So yes, they have
our people, and.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
Also we recognized the carts and the equipment, like there's
no reason to think that this isn't what's happening. And
then we get a little bit of insight into how
Gall is still having issues with pain and Chiad. In
that really adorable funny taming of the Shrew antagonism sort
of thing, he says something about how it would be
better to have the dark One himself as Guy Shine
than those two. It's like, ah, they like you. They

(43:37):
mean to you because they like you. This is adorable,
nothing problematic, So I.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Unpack here, but a lot of telling, a lot of
telling in this chapter. He's talking about how they're mean
to him. We're not seeing them be mean to him,
you know. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
So then Gall brings in news that Balwer says that
it is the Lord Captain Commander who is in camp.
We don't have a personal Sigel yet, we just have
an official signal. And Paren gets all flashed by about
White Cloak higher ups because of that night two years ago,
and again telling us this is gonna keep looping back
into my path over and over again until I resolve it, like, Okay,

(44:12):
you just went to therapy for the first time and
you've learned that cycles repeat until you learn your lesson good.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
Is there any difference between the Lord Captain Commander's banner
when it changes hands from person to person or is
it just the same Lord Captain's.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
I think it's the same. I think it doesn't change.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
Okay, this has no way to know, like this is
glawd from the fact that Lord got Commander's banner.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
I believe that Gallad signs a letter later with his
personal sigil, but that is not incorporated into the sigil
of the office. I could be wrong about what he
signs with later, but I know that the sigil doesn't
change when the leadership changes. Like you said before, It's
like the seal for the President of the United States.
It doesn't get updates.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
Got it.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Yeah. Gall says we can totally kick their asses. That
would be easy, and parents says, I'd rather not because
that's how he feels about conflict. And then he ends
the chapter with saying, well, I guess we'll try to
talk first, and then I'll punch them in the face
if I have to.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
And he's like, ah, the pattern's just going to keep
looping them back around in front of me until I
deal with it. Right, It's like my problems are going
to keep popping back up until I deal with them.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
Therapy one oh one, Congratulations, we're glad you've started the past.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
So there's that little bit of like bit about the
pattern and like how he's sort of realizing that this
is the severeness and the pattern that's like forcing him
to deal with these things before he can go back
to Rand. And he's got this tugging in him and
makes him want to go back. So he's like, Okay,
I can't delay anymore. I've got fai yel. I have
to deal with these things so that I can get
me and all of my armies back to Rand and

(45:46):
the last battle.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yep, there it is.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
We'll give the children a chance to return our people,
and if they don't, well then we'll see. We will
see in.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
Exhaustive, excruciating, painstaking, granular detail, we'll see. And with that
in under an hour, we got through.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
Two chapters in the under an hour. Ooh boy, there
was a lot of filler in those chapters, that's for sure.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
If it's a show rather than tell chapter we have
a lot less to say. The spoilers thing is to
figure out what's happening. If we're just being told, there's
a lot less material.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
For us to work with. Yeah, we need to see
things going on and like make connections on our own.
But when we're just told what's going on, it's like, yeah,
we can read it. You can read it. How's your
reading comprehension? Pretty good? Cool? And it's one of the reasons,
you know, I just I think that that Sanderson is
a nod as a grown up or well written author,

(46:42):
as someone like Robert Jordan, because there is that like
level of always kind of telling you what's happening and
not letting you figure it out for yourself. So there's
just that slightly less level of engagement that you need
to and journey that you need to go on. And

(47:36):
it's why I've been enjoying reading Dungeon Crawler Carl so much.
I was.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
Like, tell us something positive about a thing you've been enjoying.
For the after show. The people deserve more content.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Okay, all right, since we're going for more content. And
I know I've been talking about this, but I feel
like I've been damning it with faint praise, because like,
I really don't think I gave it a chance when
I first dug into it, because I was like, oh no,
a video game leveling book is just not going to
be that good. And the first book, certainly, like is
kind of what I was expecting, with a lot of

(48:09):
you know, sort of funny dark humor built in, but
a lot of game mechanics and stuff like that, and
I was like, Okay, I'm enjoying this. But then as
it grew, I gotta say, the background characters and the
number of things that are happening between the characters, both
in the Dungeon and with the you know, not wanna

(48:30):
spoil it too much, but with the the group that
created the Dungeon and the politics between those, and the
way that a lot of other characters have their own
plot lines that are very much going on in the
background do remind me a lot of the way that
The Wheel of Time feels like a very rich real
world because you have all these plot lines going on,
and sometimes they don't tell you what the connections are,

(48:52):
but when you figure one of those out, it's a
very rewarding like, oh, that character's name is in their
Maria to a different this character with a different name,
and that's why there's this you know chain of hate
or you know, reason to dislike somebody, And yeah, I
just I'm enjoying it quite a bit. I think the

(49:12):
characters are really well written. I think the the twists
are pretty good. The battles are very bloody, and there's
some real you know, body horror, right Like this is
these are real people in video game situations, So there's
some real like people getting squished. But then like that's
you know, that's not just like a little mushroom that
get squished and goes away. That's that's a body. So

(49:35):
you have to be, you know, careful if you're a
little squeamish. I think about some of the the scenes
for sure. But he's sort of hit what I would
call a halfway point in the series. It might not
be the halfway point in the books, right, I think
he's only I don't know if this is true or not,
but he may. If it's a ten book series. He's
written seven, right, so he's got sort of three books

(49:56):
to finish it off. But at least in terms of
the number of floors in the dungeon, he's hit a
halfway point, and so there was a lot of sort
of in the early books, he was writing a lot
about what's going to happen on these first nine levels
out of the eighteen, and I think there's sort of
a fulfillment of a lot of promise. Right we've gotten
to level nine, which in a lot of ways, whether

(50:17):
you want to call it the halfway point or sort
of a significant stopping off point before whatever is going
to however he's going to finish it up, which you know,
at this point, could be he's he could go any
a lot of different ways. I don't know how he's
going to go, but at least at this point, I
feel like he's given us a lot of resolution on
a lot of the things that he you know, there's

(50:37):
still plenty of plot lines going forward, but like I
trust him to write a good conclusion to the whole
series based on what he's given us so far and
the fan base. The fandom looks fun, that looks positive.
People are still really sort of enjoying the silliness of it.
And there's something that's like there's a lot of very
cost playable characters, right, some very and so when you

(51:00):
have a lot of recognizable characters. It's very easy to
create these groups of people who look very similar and
obviously are like wearing a uniform. There's lovable characters and
stuff like that. You know, it's just it's wacky fun.
It's like it's obviously not taking itself too seriously, but
as it evolves and gets more complicated, it brushes on
more serious and more serious topics, and you're like, oh,

(51:24):
I was reading this for fun, and now I'm thinking
about like social political, you know, structures of various countries
and our world, and that's that's weird and I didn't
expect to be doing that based on this series at all.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Sneaky, sneaky, Yeah, it's it's.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
It's well done.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
Cool.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
And then just like you know, some of the characters
like start off as what you think of my big
two dimensional characters, but you get to some of their
personal trauma, both going back before the end of the
world and after, and with the added benefit of like
anybody could die at any time, these are very real stakes.
And he kills off some you know, lovable characters pretty quickly.

(52:04):
There's some characters you think are going to be part
of it to the end, and you're like, oh no,
they're dead. Oh oh oh shit, that's the end of
that one.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
Getting all Melanie rawn on our asset.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Well, I'm glad that's been enjoyable. That sounds really cool
and fun.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
It's just yeah, I highly recommend it to anybody who's
looking for a fun book. I think if you liked
The Bob of Verse, I think, if you like any
Andy Weir stuff, I think that like, and if you're
okay with stuff being just a little more bloody. This
is sort of that same male first person perspective telling

(52:42):
a fun, not quite serious story about aliens and how
you deal with them.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
I mean this is an evergreen genre.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure, very cool.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
I'm not reading anything of equal interest. I mean, I
just started a new book, so I'm not really like
invested in it yet. But it's called The Other Americans,
and the audiobook actually has six narrators for the six
different povs. I've only heard three of them so far
because I'm reading it like with my grandma. But yeah,
it's not an audio drama with sound effects and music.

(53:17):
It's more like Michael and Kate just switching back and forth,
except that there's a full cast of six people doing that,
so that's slightly different. But it's a fiction book about
people being immigrants in the United States and being othered
and stuff, so we'll see how that goes. It's you know,

(53:37):
I mean, I like it so far, but I'm two
chapters in so it's hard to say, you know, or
three chapters.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
Yeah, currently re listening to An Immense World, which is
about animal senses, and I'm about to I think, restart
listening to How the South Won the Civil War, which
actually I think I read that, I didn't listen to it,
and my mom says that the book is really good.
It's actually the author narrating her own book and she's

(54:04):
good at it, So I think I might re listen
to that. But that's not fun that that's a book
that will make you very depressed and understand what the
future holds because past rhymes with the future.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
No thanks, I'm going for sticking my head deep deep
into the sand for the times when I'm reading.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Yeah, let's see, I don't. I don't have much in
the escape. An Immense World is really good for escapism.
It's it's real, it's it's nonfiction. But it has nothing
to do with things that will make you depressed, except
for like I guess Wales having noise pollution of the
ocean is kind of bad.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
Oh, And if you have any suggestions for dealing with
planter fasci itis, please send me suggestions. My left foot's
been hurting, but anything that particularly that worked. If you've
had that, I don't know you'll have to include this,
but yeah, anything that helps with it. It's it's not fun,
not fun. So I'm working on just icing and stretching,

(55:04):
and i'd be profen for swallow for inflammation.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
But you have not yet quit your job, which we
all know is the real solution.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Yes, obviously right, No, that's unfortunately I'm not allowed to
do that.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
That's a bummer. That really sucks, all right, So send
us your escapist book recommendations, and Planto faciet is dealing
with suggestions. If you're still listening to the podcast at
this point, you definitely have one or both of these
answers available to share with us, So I do expect
comments in our email and in the discord.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Either you're immobile or you love to read. You got
to get us for some reason.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
Thank you all, So much for listening, and yeah, we'll
see you next week.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
See you next week.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
Please rate and review us on your podcast app and
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Watt Spoilers is a production of Fox and Raven Media.
For more podcasts from Fox and Raven Media, visit our
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