The Amyrlin’s Anger - Towers of Midnight chapter 3 - EP547 - WoT Spoilers

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. All right,
So we are here today to do one of the
only single chapters we will be doing this book, probably
Chapter three.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
It's a banger, which is good because I've got a
lot to say about this one.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
There's three povs, there's conclusions to things that should have
happened a long time ago.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
There's a lot, there's prophecies, there's visions, there's dreams. Barn's letter.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, so much to talk about.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
It touches on a lot of it. And then just
the conversation between Randon and Gwain is like, every line
has something I want to say something about. So this
is going to be a good one, I think.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Yeah. So without further ado, should I just read us in?

Speaker 2 (01:01):
I think so? Yeah. I think we can just skip
on the extra content today and just go for it.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, let's just do it, all right. Chapter three. The
Omorlin's anchor and our symbol is the flame of Tarvalin
Agwain floated in blackness. She was without form, lacking shape
or body. The thoughts, imaginings, worries, hopes, and ideas of
all the world extended into eternity around her. This was

(01:28):
the place between dreams and the waking world, a blackness
pinpricked with thousands upon thousands of distant lights, each more
focused and intense than the stars of the skies. They
were dreams, and she could look in on them, but
did not. The ones she wanted to see were warded,
and most of the others were mysteries to her. There

(01:49):
was one dream she longed to slip into, she restrained herself.
Though her feelings for Gawin were still strong, her opinion
of him was muddled recently. Getting lost in his dreams
would not help. She turned about, looking through the expanse.
Recently she'd started coming here to float and think. The
dreams of all the people here, some from her world,

(02:11):
some from shadows of it reminded her why she fought
she must never forget that there was an entire world
outside the White Towers walls. The purpose of Isadai was
to serve that world. Thought that was a nice readon
because that's where she's at. As she, you know, approaches
this conversation with Rand right, is really thinking about the global, existential,

(02:33):
multi dimensional nature of what they're doing, which I think
is a good way for her to be. Walking up
to such an important conversation with Rand right like in
his awakened state, Like, it's good that she's not just
being angry about something small. It's good she's global, universal
in her thinking right now.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
I always thought that she could get information from the
dreams of people, not from her world. That would be useful,
right Like, I feel like I would mind not for technology.
What is there a world where they have gunpowder? I mean,
you know, or something equivalent, like better technology than we have,
where they've they've got more advanced discoveries. Can I figure
anything out?

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Elevators, right, long distance mail something? Yeah? Yeah. If those
worlds exist and have manifest dreams, is there not something
to be gained from interacting with them?

Speaker 3 (03:22):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
So then she uses the world of dreams as we've
seen it her abuse them before, which is basically like
communicating Yes.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
This is her long distance communication is Yeah, she basically
pages nine eve mm I like that.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah. It's always followed by Ninive waking up, you know,
and being like, oh my god, okay, well.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
I mean that buzzing noise is annoying, you know.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
And so she yeah, Ninive, it is time to stop
avoiding me. There's work to be done me because she's
been hanging out with Rand this whole time.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yeah, yeah, she has said, I need to stay with Rand.
One of us on the core cast needs to stay
with Rand and this whole time, And that's her reason
for staying away from Agwain.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
But she also kind of ran away in the middle
of the night.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
Well, but her and Agway have some unresolved issues that
have definitely been getting swept farther and farther under the
rug with the Rand Broom.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Because nine even is very much an independent agent in
a lot of ways. She's going to do what she
wants when she wants. She's never obeyed the Tower and
she and she never will, so yeah, and she's too
powerful to like just ignore.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah. Yeah. She can't be entirely outside of the fold,
but neither can she be contained completely within the fold.
She's a real conundrum even for her old friend Agwain,
I mean friend in quotes.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
And she wants them back. She wants them the oaths
like everybody else has sworn the oaths. Everyone else has
resworn the oaths. She's sworn the oaths. It's time to
get them on the oath rod. And you know, really
raised the shawl as she wants them to complete the ceremony.
Now that they have the tower, they can do that
whole thing right that they weren't able to do out
of the tower.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
That is kind of the first order of business, right
is to raise all the women who were raised by
a decree, all of them, not just her friends, but
everyone who was in that limbo because of the split.
They should kind of be priority number one now that
the split is healed.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
I don't know. I still think the last battle should
be priority. Well.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
No, that is prep for the last battle is to
get that little issue resolved, because that gets more proper
Isidye into the ranks of Isidi.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
So what do you think about Agwaine's decision to not
take the test but have Ninive take it.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
I am very meh on Agwayne not taking the test.
I think them all taking it makes sense. I'm really
meh on her deciding that the omrelin is exempted because
she went through a bunch of spankings. I'm not swayed
by her logic on that. I think she should have

(06:04):
gone through. I think she should have taken the test.
I could see her saying I can't take the test
until after the last battle, because you can't lose me
to the test on the eve of the last battle.
I could see that argument that she gets a longer extension,
but I don't see.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
But I would say the same thing about Ninive, that
need's too important to be risked.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
It's yeah, it's I I think she should have done it.
I don't see why she needed to be like, no,
I'm too good for that, Like why you don't defeat
Massana until after? And she literally has the thought, what
if I had faced something like this in my test,
And I'm like, this is why you should have taken the.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Test exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, I think you would have broken the test, just
like you broke Massana. Like, I think that would have
been awesome.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
But alas, there is the dream aspect of the test,
and as a dream walker, one wonders if she would
be able to like a game the dream a little bit,
just be like no change.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
That she does say it. That's part of why Ninive
was able to go as hard on the test as she.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Did is her experience and until her on reality.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, yeah, I believe that that is a thing that
Agwayinne says, It's like that's part of why the test
was maybe a mistake to administer to you is because
you had too much experience in the dream. So like,
I don't know, maybe there's an argument there that, like
people with dream experience can't be tested in the same way.
But I don't know, that feels weak. That feels weak.
They want to stress test the isidye, stress test the

(07:32):
ice to die, I don't know, be consistent.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
And then just the idea this next paragraph I don't
really like where she thinks about how she should deal
with the wise ones.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Oh my god, I get where.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
She's going with that, where he's trying to be like, oh, well,
she's matured. She's now one of the big you know,
the ambulance seat. She has to deal with the other ones.
But these are her friends who raised her. I don't
ever imagine Agwayne seeing the wise ones as something to
be dealt with, even in quotes.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
I mean, she literally thinks the first thing was to
keep them from thinking they were being dealt with, Meaning
she's now infantilizing that she now has like a supremacy
mindset over them, and that doesn't feel consistent to how
she respects them. To me, to me, she should have
said the first thing was to remember that they were
not to be quote unquote dell with. That's how that

(08:21):
sentence should have gone, is to be like I have
to manage the eyes to die, thinking that they're going
to deal with the wise ones while realizing that that
is the wrong approach, kind of like she is with Rand,
but instead she takes on this like super colonizer brained
kind of thinking of like we got to keep them
from realizing they're being manipulated, Like you would never do

(08:42):
that to the wise ones, though you let them beat
you for lying to them, Like what what?

Speaker 2 (08:47):
And you just came out of this experience where them
spanking you saved you from this, you know, let you
able to deal with this spanking and overthrow a lighter, right,
Like this is there should be a whole line of respect, right,
and it's it's just not there. It's just not there.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
Maybe the point is being made that absolute power corrupts fuck,
but in that case it's being made clumsily and far
too quickly for me to believe. So I don't quite
know what the head canon patch for this is. This
just feels wrong.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
I really do think that Sanderson miss read Agwayne that
he missed. He reads her as ambition first, and that's
never been Awayne. Does she have ambition, absolutely, but it's
people first, and she wants power to help the people
around her.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
He listened to the wrong people on Reddit.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah he really did.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah for too many years as a fan.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, because there is that aspect of Awayne, but it's
not the only aspect of Awayne, and it's tempered by
so much more understanding, especially with the whole like the
international travel and spending time in Europe, I mean, the
waste that she like came to appreciate other cultures and like, yeah,
she's the annoying girl that talks about it all the time,
but she also does speak fluent French, you know, Like.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
So right right, you know, and I feel like.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
You just this this person has come back and been like, oh, yeah,
no I live there, but they're just barbarians.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Or this is maybe maybe this is a reflection of
my head cannon, that she's spending too much time in
the dream world thinking about herself as Amor and so
she's taking on the institutional biases of the tower like
above and beyond her own personality and experiences. Like maybe
maybe that's what's going on now. I don't think that's
that's no. No, I dislike that. I know I just

(10:30):
said that, but I dis like it.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
So she steps out of the dream and goes to
her own little horny dreams with Gowen.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
She's gonna go take a break, just go rub one out, relax,
you know.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
With the Godwin as she imagines him, because this is
not the all One as he exists. This is the idea, like,
this is dream Gowin, This is dream Gowin. This is
the Golin she has a crush on. And she has
a crush on him because she has no idea who
he is.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
He is ke enough for her. Yeah, and then right
does she's getting cozy in her dream it shatters into
prophecy dreams and she gets three true dreams capital letters,
and it completely ruins any hope she was going to
have of having a good night's sleep. And I think, hey,

(11:13):
canon a little bit wondering if the reason she got
all these true dreams was because Rand came into a
certain proximity of her.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
That's him walking into like.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
As he crosses the Bridge's sullenly everyone's like abilities, talents
for tellings all that like spikes dreaming. So it's like
and now true prophecy dreams. But it's like she was
just trying to be cozy with her dream boyfriend, Like,
come on, man, couldn't you have waited till tomorrow?

Speaker 2 (11:42):
I'm sorry the phrase come on man, when she's trying
to be cozy with her boyfriend is not.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Sy.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
You know, when you're when you're imagining you're her boyfriend
and your X shows up, it really is quite rude.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
It is extremely rude. It is extremely rude. Yeah, yeah,
what are you doing crashing my dreams of my future
boyfriend situation?

Speaker 2 (12:11):
So do you want to dig into these prophecies?

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Let's do it because these are juicy and she only
has a clear interpretation for one, so we have room
to speculate on the other two.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
Mm hmm, Well she interprets two of them.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
Okay, well let's got let's get yeah. Yeah, So dream
number one all was dust around her, and thirteen black
towers rose in the distance beneath a tar like sky.
One fell and then another, crashing to the ground. As
they did, the ones that remained grew taller and taller.
The ground shook as several more towers fell. Another tower

(12:43):
shook and cracked, collapsing most of the way to the ground,
but then it recovered and grew tallest of all. At
the end of the quake, six towers remained looming above her.
Let's go, what the hell is happening Forsaken?

Speaker 2 (12:58):
That is one hundred percent the Forsaken. Their's progress to
the series. You start with thirteen. They're being killed one
by one. Some of them come back because they're resurrected
by the dark one, the one that crumbled almost to
the ground and came back. The tallest is you know,
a Shamael becoming Mordon and now he's name Bliss. And
at the end of the quake you have six towers.

(13:18):
There are six Forsaken standing.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
That was my interpretation as well. But I had to
be like, am I missing something because the towers situation
the towers at midnight and all that I was like,
is this the towers at Midnight? But I mean maybe
in a way it is thirteen black towers.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
And that's where I think, like, you have multiple towers
of Midnight. Right, You've got the initial thirteen towers that
were the shawn Chan in the opening scene. By definition,
the author has said those are the Towers of Midnight, right,
those are the Towers of the shawn Chan. That's their
canonical name for them. But it's hard not to see
the Forsaken as the another thirteen Towers of Midnight that

(13:56):
have existed, and especially with this prophecy, actually, with this
prophecy here making them, you know, very clear that you
had thirteen, now you have six. You have the like
there's nothing else that fits as well as the Forsaken.
And also I really like the idea that this is
kind of like, this book is about the Forsaken gearing
up for the last battle as much as anything else.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah, yeah, I that was definitely my intuition, my intuitive
leap first, and then I was like, wait, am I
missing something? Am I missing something? But yeah, no, Forsaken
seems pretty straightforward.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
I'm the sixth Forsaken. We have, right, We've got Grendall,
morden Landfair, Sindane.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah, yeah, Sindane, Sindane, Demondred, Demondred, Sammarrog's gone spider. So
we've got Mgedion and Sindane their pair. We've got Graindell
as a solo doing her thing. We've got dem Andred
as a solo doing his thing. That's four. Morden Mordon,
that's five.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
Who's left Morden, right, that's one. I'm just going down
the list. Robbin's dead, the Mandreds still alive, sam Isles dead,
Agonor's dead, Balthaml's dead. They've both been killed again in
these timelines as Modian's dead, Thelall's dead. Land fears back now,
says Sindane. Samarog's dead. Massana. That's who we've been forgetting.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Of course, the one who's the next vision is about.
That's the one we're forgetting right there.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Right, yeah, Grendall and then Mogedian.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, yeah. Massana's good at hiding.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
She hid from our idea of Yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
So, speaking of Masana, the next vision, she was looking
down at a nest. In it, a group of fledgling
eagles screeched towards the sky for their mother. One of
the eglet's uncoiled, and it wasn't an eagle at all,
but a serpent. It began to strike at the fledglings
one at a time, swallowing them whole. The eglets simply
continued to stare into the sky, pretending that the serpent

(15:53):
was their sibling as it devoured them. Now she gives
us the interpretation of this is Masana. But what I
think is really interesting is the helplessness and the patiently
ignoring their sibling. I find that to be a far
more interesting part than the snake itself, you.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Know, pretending the serpent was their sibling as it devoured them.
I mean, I think it's yes, Massana, but it's also
a bit of the entire Black Adja and the way
they just ignored it and the way they didn't talk
about it, and the way it did consume them as
a nest. You know that it definitely is Massana, but
it's also I feel like a really good analogy for
the Black Adja and the history of it. But that's

(16:31):
not really what we're telling because that's already kind of happened.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
It's more of an observation than a prediction, right, Like
the observation or the prediction is that Masana is going
to continue to win until they do something different. But
like the conditions of that are that you were just
waiting for someone to come save you and actively looking
away from anything that makes you uncomfortable, and you are
dying as a result, and that has a lot of

(16:55):
analogies elsewhere in the book and in our lives in
this present month.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
Now. The only thing I'll challenge about that is, what
if it's the attack on the White Tower by the
sean Chan has happened. The raid has happened, which means
the Blood Knives are in the tower and they are
being killed, and she is the one ignoring the Blood Knives.
She is looking away from them deliberately because she thinks
it's Messana. Meanwhile, they're being slaughtered because all of these,

(17:23):
all the deaths that she thinks her Massana are the
blood Knives.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
True, very true.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
And those are the fledglings being picked off one time.
So is it possible a misinterpretation of this vision is
one of the reasons why she's so hyper fixed on
Massana when those deaths occur, when it's actually the Blood Knives.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
That is an interesting alternative explanation, because yeah, the part
where the eaglets just keep looking for someone to come
do the thing like what are you missing? Who is
supposed to come? And like she's supposed to come, She's
supposed to come save them. She is the mother Eagle, right,
She's supposed to show up and deal with the blood
knife that's eating them. But yeah, she's as an interesting interpretation.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
I think where it's weak is that the serpent is
one of the eglets that uncoils, and that doesn't make
sense unless it is Misano.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, I think she's right about the interpretation, but like
I feel like there's layers Weekend unpacked there and yeah,
I mean it. And regardless, right, the fact that she's
focusing on the blood knives does lead to more deaths,
or she's not focusing on the blood knives that she
has no idea they're there, does give them free rein
for a long time.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
And maybe Galade's the one who's going to come and
say or Gowan's the one who's going to come and
save the Eglitz.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
He's the the Gowan's the mother eagle. Well, actually eagles
raise their nests together. Actually, so could be the father eagle.
That's perfectly within the bounds of biology. Are you ready
for the third vision?

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, third and final vision.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
She saw an enormous fear made of the finest crystal.
It sparkled in the light of twenty three enormous stars
shining down on it where it sat on a dark hilltop.
There were cracks in it, and it was being held
together by ropes. There was Rand walking up the hillside
holding a woodsman's axe. He reached the top and hefted
the axe, then swung at the ropes one at a time,

(19:15):
shopping them free. The last one parted and the sphere
began to break apart, the beautiful globe falling in pieces.
Rand shook his head, what is going on there? What's
the twenty three? What's the globe? He's literally walking into
her dreams as he's walking into the tower.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
So I have so I have a couple of interpretations
of this. I definitely went down the rabbit hole trying
reading about this and trying to find, you know, the
answer or what it is she's interpreting, because on a
first read through, you might say enormous sphere, finest crystal,
cracked children call sure, I think that's too shallow, and

(19:55):
I don't think it fits. There's nothing, no one's trying
to hold it together, there's no ropes. The number twenty
three doesn't mean anything, right, So then you really kind
of have to go to the sphere of crystal being
the prison, the dark ones prison, and being the seal
on the Dark Ones prison. The twenty three for me
is the Hall of the Tower, the Amberlin, and the Keeper,

(20:17):
because the hall is twenty one sisters plus the Amberlin
and the Keeper, that's twenty three. I said, eye trying
to hold together the dark Ones prison, and here Ran
comes along and he's just going to shatter it. And
they're also the keeper of the seals, so they would
be the ones holding the net together.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah. Yeah. The only other crystal sphere I could think
of was the Sharom back in the Age of Legends
as the only other sphere that has broken spectacularly over
the plot, but that has no bearing on what's happening
here at all. And yeah, twenty three is very important.
You have to make that make sense, and that explanation

(20:55):
ties up all the loose ends with the least amount
of chaos. So also, that's exactly what he's initiating as
he literally walks into the tower, into her dreams, into
the meeting. I think that's a very straightforward interpretation and
it goes deep enough to catch all the threads, so

(21:17):
I'll accept it.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
I had a couple other alternatives, but that one just
it fits all the pieces. A little too well, and
it is later what she and again this is Anderson writing,
and later Rand's later GWayne says, oh, that's him breaking
the seals, so that's probably what it's about.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
Well, I can forget that because I haven't read these
books as many times, and I can pretend that there's mystery.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Uh huh.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
So yeah, that was fun. We definitely had a good
time with those visions.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
I guess the only thing to think is the crystal
somehow the White Tower itself being held together, and Rand's
presence is breaking it apart. But in like, you know,
maybe after the last battle, the White Tower just doesn't
exist as an entity and is broken apart by the
and the Tower is trying to hold it together, the
Tower in the ambulance, and then keep her trying to hold
it together. But I can't come up with any other

(22:08):
number for twenty three, right, there's nothing else. It's not
the Forsaken, it's not any main characters stuff like that.
So it has to have something to do with White.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Tower and has everything symbolically to do with what he's
trying to do, which is say, I'm going to break
the seals. There is a prison, I am going to
break apart the things that hold it. I need your
cooperation in one form or another to make it happen. Right, Like,
he asks her for one thing, meaning to get something else,

(22:39):
but either way he needs her.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
If there was any way we could link the twenty
three stars to Tremulking and for the people who commit suicide,
the Amar, the ami R, you know, maybe if they
had some sort of ruling council of twenty three they
were around the you know, and ran and cuts the
ropes and it shatters when he broke the But it's

(23:05):
such a stretch compared to the just very very upfront.
It's about breaking the seals.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah, totally, it absolutely is. And yeah, with that, she
wakes up in a start and is like, oh my god,
that was very intense. And she goes to her dream
journal and she writes it down like a good dream
journal person does, and she like works through some interpretations
and the middle one comes through the most clearly. But
you know, because it's Sanderson, and because we're omnipotent readers

(23:32):
on a reread, like, none of that revelation on her
part is particularly exciting. But what is exciting is when
she finishes her notes and tries to go back to bed,
only to be interrupted by you guessed it, Rand, I
mean news of Frand it's Sylviana being like, he's here
for you. It's good you're awake already.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Yeah. The only thing I'll say is she the sentence,
she felt the meaning of it, interpreting it as she
sometimes could. Does seem like there is this moment where
she knows what dreams mean, right, she can tell. It's
not very often, but every time she feels it, she's right.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
It's like with Min when men knows what her visions mean,
she's correct, but she doesn't always know, so it's like
there's a very binary on off with the truth thing.
So yeah, I figure that Agwayinne's sense for that is
much like Min's sense for her foretelling or her visions.
They're not foretellings. Kind of POV switch. We are going

(24:37):
over to Swan as her and Hi Captain Chewbane kind
of moved through the tower in preparation for the meeting.
Oh and Ciane is there too, so we've got two
eyes to die and the captain of the tower guards
do want to walk and talk while the tower swirls
in preparation or in anticipation of grand coming to to

(25:00):
talk to the hall. So we've jumped maybe twenty minutes
and twenty hallways.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Right, right, everyone's coming together for this meeting that they
woke up the mother for.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yeah, I'm assuming he's come down like kind of early
in the morning. Like it's not the middle of the night.
It's probably like six am, you know, so like some
people are up, but like the Amerlind maybe was going
to sleep until six fifteen, you know.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
I mean he had to walk from Dragon Mount.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
Right, Yeah, it's been a while. It's been a while.
I guess actually have no idea what time of day
it is.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
And I assume he came down from Dragon Mount at
sunrise because he comes with dawn.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
Well, and also there's that like a beam of light
that comes onto Almond Bunt. It feels very dawn like yes, yes,
that that whole sa plus is the opening of the book.
Books and movies, right, they tend to open on dawns
and end on sunsets. So yeah, he's had to walk
for a while, So I guess we don't know what
time of day it is.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
It's not a whole lot to say in those first
couple pages, just you know, Rand walks in with the
refugees and no one stops him because he looks like
another refugee.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
There's some stuff about how Brynn is not gonna become
High Captain of the Guard. It's just some like background stuff,
you know.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, he's gonna go fight on the He's gonna fight
the last battle rather than becoming high Guard.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, and Chewbane is gonna be secure. But yees. Swan's
really commenting mentally and externally on like just how the
Isidie are all the flutter. We're just all a flutter.
Even though he's come to us. It's like we're trapped
in here with him. Wait wait wait wait wait, this
is our home. He's trapped in here with us. Yeah, yeah,
he's trapped in here with us, right right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
Meanwhile, they've like they've locked him up in like two
different full circles that they can put together, well not
full circles, circles of thirteen that they put together.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
Full Isidie women only circles. Yeah. And there's you know,
and and Swan has this thought that, like, you know,
burn Alida, we would have had him in Isidi control
if not for her and I'm like, kind of sounds
like Elia needed to happen then, because I don't think
that he was ready for isidie control to a higher
degree before now, you.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Know, although later he does say I should have listened
to you know, like I could have listened to the
war because they are wise people. I was just worried about,
you know, their advice over arching and overcoming my achievements.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
Which is a very loose therat interpretation, which again I'm
just like, yeah, you're not calculating for the same rand now.
But yeah, there's a thought about how Swan had hoped
she would get chosen as keeper, which I like, that's delusional.
That's the most she has ever thought, Like that was
never going to happen.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
The president never becomes the vice president.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
Like yeah, like that's not a thing, Swan, Like, I
love that hope from you, but also like, no, you're
too politically savvy to have harbored that hope for any
reason other than sheer delusion, which is fine. Everyone's allowed
a few delusions. That's that's totally cool.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
On their walk there, they come across a bubble of
evil slash switching corridor thing. Right, there's a place where
the floor tiles of the color of blood when they
should have been white and yellow, and they glistened as
if wet. It's one little paragraph, right, It's really easy
to miss because they turn around and go the other direction.
But yeah, the White Tower is all sorts of fucked up.

(28:06):
It's twisted. It's interesting. I feel like the White Tower
has had more corridors shifted than almost any other place.
I'm not sure if that's just because we've been spending
more time with Agwayne, but it feels like every time
we're in the Tower there's a hallway that's been moved
or shifted. Plus the whole Brown Quarters Novice Quarters switching places.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
Well, that was because Agway needed to be up high
in order to kick Shawn.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
Channa ass totally, totally.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
I think it's kind of like how men's visions are
more attracted to channelers. I think probably bubbles of evil
are just more attracted to channels because it's like they're
not tevere in, but they are more tapped into the
intrinsic nature of the universe because of channeling. So plus,
you've got a lot of people with weird talents and
important roles to play in the future. Like I can

(28:52):
see the White Tower being a hot spot for this
sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, but about the Black.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Tower, I imagine that the Black Towers being run by a
probationary forsakean at this point, so they might have a
little bit more safety for themselves because they need to
be preserved for the actual battle. But I would imagine
that if they were being led by someone's like say Logaine,

(29:18):
who is not you know, a probationary Forsaken, then probably
it would be just as bad, if not worse, because
they have so much taint damage even now after the cleansing.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
Well, and so many of them now are connected to
the Dark One right in a way.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah, but like Forsaken, don't go insane from the taint, right,
So there is the Dark One has the ability to
pick and choose to some extent where this goes. I
think maybe or the Black Tower is riddled with these
things at like a twice or thrice rate.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
They are a brutal with using the power to stomp
them down would be my guess.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
Also that they have a different approach to using the
power defensively, so, but I would imagine it's happening more
often at the Black tower unless the dark one is
specifically intervening to give them an exception.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Swan, Thanksgwayne's working hard to reforge the tower, but you
couldn't mend years worth of broken nets in one month.
I think that's a good analogy about, like, yeah, these
are very divided people and bringing them back. If anything,
the best benefit for bringing them back together is so
many have been killed or fled that the old guard
is such a small percentage of the people because you've

(30:29):
had all these novices and all these new people and
all these young and I said, I flooding in and
all the old guard is basically gone.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
You know. I have seen this in my role in
local government. The guy who actually knows how to run
the department has been there forever. But the board turned
over really rapidly from like the old boys club with
all the problems associated with that term, to the crew
it is now. And I was part of that. I
came into the end of that transition. And he has

(30:56):
so many defensive habits left over from when the board
was an old boys club who just talked about fishing
and never even signed the checks. Like he keeps being
surprised that we're engaged and wants to cut him checks
for things and our goal. He's just we continue to
see these shadows and bends that were made by him

(31:19):
spending years just dealing with very abusive, unpleasant people compared
to who he's dealing with now. So very much what
she's saying here, it takes a while to mend broken
nets of decades in the making. Also, like everything we
all know about trauma and healing from trauma, but you know,
I'm trying to stay institutional here.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Suwan's very upset that she's not sort of in the
know anymore. Right, She's like, I'm not in the center
of what's going on. You know. All I want to
do is be there to shepherd the dragon to the
last battle, but I'm just not really in a position
to do that.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Well, she's having to shift what she means when she
says that overarching goal. She's like, I need to just okay,
I gotta I gotta reorganize how I support the dragon
in the last battle because she's being pushed out in
a way that she can see as good. But also like, okay,
so then where's my inn because I have to be
part of this because I'm Swan fucking sanche.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
So in the next paragraph, there's a series of sentences
that I misinterpreted, which is my fault. Okay, but that
was Brent Serene to a fault. He soothed her worries
just by being there. And I spent the longest time
trying to figure out which I said I Serene was.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
Serene Robert Jordan?

Speaker 2 (32:39):
That is on you because it's it's this capitalized S
word Serene Serenes. I was just like the Serene and
then Serene, and why is she to a fault? Like
why is Brent? Like I spent a solid I mean
not you know, minutes, but like I spent a solid
thirty seconds being like that sentence doesn't make any sense.

(33:02):
Who's Serene?

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Robert Jordan? That is one hundred percent on you.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
But that's that's the S name Fallacy.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Uh huh, that's amazing. I love that for you. Thank
you for sharing that with the class. Who's Serene? You know,
that'd be a really good trivia question. Pick out the
name that isn't it's just the word Serene.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
You got Saren Serenes.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
Yeah, yeah, one of these days is not like that.
Can you tell which one?

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Because because earlier in this chapter, Suan has a whole
thing about how she's getting to like serene because she's yeah, Saren, Yes,
but you know, the way I pronounced that word in
my head is serene, right, That's how it's spelled in
my head. And then to have serene be a word
that comes up later when serene is how even though

(33:54):
I know in the audiobook that's not how it's pronounced,
but in my head that's how I say it. So yeah,
it thru me. It definitely through me.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
That's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
And because of the way it's it's structured. Right, But
that was Bran, not comma. That was brand comma. Serene
to a fault, It's that was Bran period, new sentence,
new thought, Serene to a fault, capitalized s.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yeah. No, I mean it's a really reasonable mistake to
make at this point in our journey through the wheel
of time, because.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
Oh yes, names are a problem. Yeah, all right, moving on,
Vexam is again coming out.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
I did have one other thing, which is it's a
very Sanderson comment coming from Brnn here, but I think
it's a relevant thought. Oh no, she says, I'm isidie.
My very nature is to be in control of myself
and my surroundings, and he replies, And yet the more
time I spend around Iside, the more I wonder about that.
Are they in control of their emotions or do those

(34:52):
emotions just ever change? If one is always concerned, one
will always look the same. And that feels like such
as Sanderson meta fan comment on like the experience of
reading the eyes to eye as you're growing up and
just being like, because they, yeah, they looks to read,
but then they have all this inner turmoil and there's
so much machinations and it feels so sandersome. But I

(35:12):
don't really mind it.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Mm yeah, I do mind it.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
You mind it? What do you mind about it?

Speaker 2 (35:18):
The idea that they're just he's just dismissing all the
complex emotions that I said, I are constantly going through
in this weird way that he's like, Oh, they just
they they're just simple and they just don't have a
lot of depth to them.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Well, I was taking it at all. I was taking
it as like I don't know the mask is. I
don't know. I guess I just felt validated in him
saying like you just have resting bitch face. It's fine,
Like I get it.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
I mean se on mite. Yeah, there's no doubt about that,
but uh, I don't know it's And again, I think
it comes from just reading a lot of Sanderson and
getting to know his humor style. And this feels like
a very bat like a not great attempt at being
slightly humorous on Sanderson's style. Like this is just very
light Sanderson humor. And I think in the moment I

(36:06):
appreciated it, but now having read so much Sanderson, going
back and seeing this just makes me like he's flanderized
his own humor in some of his later books.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
And I mean I did kind of pick up some
of his other books and go, Ben, they're done that,
got the T shirt and put them back down again.
So that tracks with our mutual experience for sure.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah. As much as I do love parts about Sanderson,
his humor is just bad, especially around like two characters
who are in love who are bantering together. Least favorite
brand of Sanderson humor and here is just it's a
bit of a shadow of it.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
Just a shadow, gotcha, Oh that makes sense. It's fine
and very light doses.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
It's fine. And that's where like it works here right right,
And that's where I think it does. Yeah, yeah, it
works fine here, but because of my experience with his
other works, it just it's it's like getting a whiff
of something that like later rotted, and like, yes, it
smells good now, but I've had rotted strawberries, and so
now the smell of strawberries kind of makes me.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Go, I'm just gonna not delve into that because I
like strawberries. I don't want to think about that.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
No, And that's a terrible analogy, because I do love strawberries,
and that's but like, yeah, like he had just taken
out a huge batch of raw strawberries and put them
in the dumpster and came back inside and someone was
like strawberry shortcake, and You're like, I just not right now,
give me five minutes.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Yeah, yeah, that's valid. Association is real m. So yeah,
aside from that, Agwain walks in and commands the room
like a queen with her stupid shadow going.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
Okay, yet not bonted, tours a warder, yet not cast
from the tower either. He'd spend the night since the
Unification guarding Aguain's doors, despite the fact that it angered her.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
What the things we do for love? What?

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Mm hmm?

Speaker 1 (37:54):
And then this is great paragraph that just describes Agway
and it's great. She's brought the tower to its knees
from the inside while being beaten every day and dows
with so much forker she could barely light a candle
so young, and yet what was age to annuice to die? Literally,
it's so true. Brought the tower to its knees while
being beaten and drugged like that is an accurate description

(38:16):
of what happened.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Pretty impressive, and I think that's why we really like
her journey through like into towers. When she first got
kidnapped at the end of the whatever book she gets
kidnapped at end of Crossroads of Twilight. She spends the
Knife of Dreams in the tower doing her whole rebellion
thing that's written by Jordan. We sort of get that
from Suan being well, she's a better ambulan than I
could have been, because she can lead by presence instead

(38:39):
of by pushing people, you know, lead by example type situation.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
She's way better at crowd work than Swan ever was, right.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Ga Swan liked to sit up in the inner study
and sort of very bureaucratic leader. Right. She issued commands
ye you know, and it was like it works. It's fine,
but like a Gwayne's out there giving speeches fighting is
the fire coming from the tower against the invaders of
the shan Chan. Like there's a certain amount of awe

(39:06):
that I don't think Swan ever had a right.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
Swan's fierce, but yeah, she's wielded her power bureaucratically, and yeah,
so she's saying, like, you know, it's good that Agwayne
is here and now the way she is, that's really
good walking up into this moment despite what it cost
me and what it costs the tower, Like at least
we're set up for this moment really really well, which
is not a wrong take, I guess. I guess it's right.

(39:32):
I feel like I probably could have made better choices
to get to this moment. But whatever same goes for Rand.
It's fine. It made good drama. We've read all the
books about it. It was fun.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
So I guess the next thing I have is Rand
walks in surrounded by twenty six figures, which I assume
is a full circle to shield them in a full circle,
to like bind them in air.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
No, I don't think they're binding because he's walking easily.
I think it's just literally two layered shields. Like even
if you break out of one, there's another one.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Listen. I know it's tempting, but two condoms does not
work better than one, all right, Like they rub against
each other, they cause breakage. It's really not a good idea.
You want one layer of protection. If you're gonna double up,
you want to double up on different kinds of protection.
You know, you want one one layer that's getting physical
and one layer against magical. You don't want to do

(40:21):
the double double layer. That's just going to cause problems.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
You're not wrong.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Use hormonal birth control and condoms.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
Yeah magic as we.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Said, magic condoms, a magic hormonal birth control.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yeah, so they're they're only doing I think they're only
doing the one because he's moving completely unencumbered through this
and he is walking like an ise to die. He's
walking with complete com he's walking like an omrelin.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
Really, I was thinking the second one just you know,
because you're not allowed to divert any power from the shield,
you want a second group of channelers there in case
they need to use, you know, weaves of air to
imprison him. Ah.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
They have one circle for the for the magical shield
and one circle for the backup spring trap. That will be.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
Exactly yeah, that's that's what I was kind of saying,
is like usily that they are binding him, but they
could you know, because you don't that there's that policy
if you don't want to divert any of your power
away from the shield, which makes sense because then they
could break the shield, that you have another group or
another circle there to do the physical binding if necessary.
If Agwain said no, you can't leave.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Right, no, that makes sense, that makes sense, and then
for some reason he does bust out of the one,
then they're ready to go exactly right, right, But yeah,
he he is walking in with the same kind of
command and presence that Agwain has. He doesn't really care
about all the kerfuffle. He's not concerned about the guards.
He's just moving through, assuming deference from people when they're

(41:52):
afraid of him, and it works out fine because you know,
there is deference there and he glows to her us right,
getting reminded she can see tavern.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
Which is again because it's mentioned here, it's one of
the reasons we can be like, well, you know, Ninive
is not probably not Taveran you know Gwayne's not Taveran,
because like, you know, she would have pointed it out
and be like, yes, they're also Tiveran, unlike in the
show where they are.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
Yeah, I blow all the raspberries that, oh well, the
girls are tavern because only the three special boys can
be Tiveran. No, that's in bullshit. I don't care what
Swan can see. That's just the thorial choice being wrong.
This is heart cannon, damn it.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
We at least tavern By proxied them a couple of times.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
Oh yeah, for sure. For sure Rand needed one of
his childhood friends to be the Omorlin like that was
needed to happen for sure.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
And so you can be like, as was everything on
her journey set up, Like even if she's not Taveran,
she needed to be in that position and Rand needed
to be there. So her journey was you know, set
up by Teveran. So her thread being pulled by Taveran
kind of makes her Taveran in of itself, right if like,
if Rand is pulling on the threads around him to

(43:04):
change the world, he's pulling on a Gwain's in I
needs thread more than.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
Most Exactly, He's pulling on everyone. But he's gonna pull
on these people harder than everyone else. It's just it's
how he is connected to the world.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yeah, and I would have been fine if from the
beginning all five of them were tavern.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
It would have been much simpler. We would not need
all these brain preussels to just stay they're all Taverian
and have done with it. Again, that's why the show
did that.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
Yeah, but it gives them a different motivation for leaving
the Two Rivers, right, I think Agwaine and I needs
motivation for leaving the Two Rivers is much more interesting
because they're not just under attack.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
I mean, you've made that argument since book one of
this podcasts, and I think that's a really interesting take
that by not being tevere and Agwaine has way more
agency over her adventure, and that's super important. So not
a bad take. But they're definitely both moving through the
world with the same out of gravitas at this point,
now that she is literally the center of the reunited

(44:04):
White Tower, right, the spindle around which the wheel turns,
et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
And this is the cool moment, right, these two people
that two and a half years ago left their small
town village not knowing what a city looked like, are
now coming to meet as what one could argue are
the two most powerful people in the world, right, the
ambulance Seat, which is the head of the white tower
around which the world turns, and the dragon reborn, you know,

(44:29):
king of multiple countries, prophecied to fight the last battle,
coming together to talk, and I really hate their conversation.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
I love everything about it other than the actual contents.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Exactly exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
But before we get to that, we do have him
talking briefly to Swan, which is cool. I do like
Swan and Rand's conversation.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
Yeah, that's a good interaction.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
Like first he starts talking to Brinn and just completely
reads their entire situation, which is very cute.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Right, He's like, oh, yeah, you two were together.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
It's like Elaine will have some things to say about that. Anyway.
Moving on, it's just so like, I don't know homie
almost And.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
I like that he thanks her for the arrow that
she took right like when she got stabbed, like that
was way back in the day. Sort of a lot
of these callback references.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
I feel like he's almost making sure that she knows
why that happened, Like just in case she hadn't figured
out who that arrow was for. It's like, I just like,
I know you're a puzzle solver, so just in case
you never solved that puzzle, it was me. It was
me that that era was meant for, just so you know.
I mean, he frames it in terms of a thank you,
but I feel like he's doing it because she's a

(45:44):
puzzle person and she maybe didn't figure that out and
it might still be bothering her, or she figured it out,
in which case the thanks are appropriate.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
And he has a lot of apologizing to do, and
he's working. You know, he's like, oh, yeah, I gotta
apologize to you for this, and you for that and
you for that. Like he's like I was, I was
on a you know. Fitzpant is saying, yeah, he's coming
down off of his high of the taint.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Right, coming down off of his high Horse mountain.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah that too, that too, well, like, yeah,
the taint has been his drug and he's finally licked it. Right.
He took some counter drug, which was the golden.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
Like divine narcan, Yeah, divine nice.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Veins of darkhan.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
The tant oh no, why does the sentence exist?

Speaker 2 (46:39):
He injected the taint into his veins. Yeah, no, it
was his cursed but it was affecting his brain. Right.
And now he's like, listen, I was not myself. I
did some ship that I really regret and I should apologize.
And I need to thank everybody for all the ship
they've done for me as well.

Speaker 1 (46:55):
Right right, And and also I need to kind of
do a little reality check and be like, hey, Agwaine
seems like a cool omorlind but as a former mrelin,
is she a good Morland? Like, just just let me know,
give me the four one one before I go in there?
Just is she good Homborlin? Because I'm a little confused.
I'm Randall thor. I don't know what's happening.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Why she goes? Why ask me he couldn't know the
closeness between Suan and Aguaine? What do you why do
you think do you think he knows or do you
think it's just because she's a fla.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
I think it's real obvious that she's standing there looking
like a proud mother hen with a new chick as
Agwayne walks in. I think everyone with a brain can notice,
but no one is because politics. But Rand is in
his perceptive mode. He's really zen. He's picking up on
subtle cues. I think Swan looks way too proud of

(47:44):
Agwayne for him to not know that she feels like
some responsibility for this moment. That's what I think.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
You don't think he has any inside information. He didn't
get any Nah.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
He's just reading people. He's reading the aura, the vibe,
the body language.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
So as he's making his way from Suan to the Amberlyn,
we get Tana delivering a letter from Varren. I actually
didn't look up Tiana. Is she at all interesting as
a character.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
She was the two young mistress of novices of Saladar
who was super overwhelmed, and that's all I remember about her.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
Okay, yeah, that seems just fine. And so she was
given the letter by Varn and we identify it. We've
got a red seal. So all right, I gotta say.
I read on the thirteenth Depository there's an article by
Linda is All. It says called Varren in her Letters,
and this was quite an interesting amount of information about

(48:46):
Varn and the various letters that she given out. I
highly recommend it to read that we should definitely drop that.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
I love thirteenth Depository.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
Yeah, really good content.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Yes, we'll put a link in the show notes.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
Yeah, link in the show notes right there. It talks
about how before all her letters have yellow seals, but
now she's paid the blood price, they've got red seals. Really,
and so you're looking.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Yes, the wax changes color.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
She uses a different color wax for these death letters.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
What she used yellow wax? When did she use yellow wax?
But what? I never heard the words yellow wax together
and wheel have time in my life.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
Rand took out Varren's letter and broke the blob of
yellow wax ceiling, impressed with the great serpent ring, I
love being a liar. The Brown sister's spidery hand covered
most of the page, A few letters blotted where rain
drops had soaked the paper.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
Huh. I never noticed that. I never, in my entire
life noticed she changed changed wax color.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
So, and this is her saying, So, whether or not
you follow Padswain's advice, and I repeat that you should
follow mine, be very wary.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
That was the yellow one.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Yeah, this is the yellow one. This is where she says,
I believe I can fulfill my oath to you better elsewhere.
So I've taken Talmanus and I'm gonna go, you know,
fuck off bit Thomas Demas right now, Tomma's.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
Very different character. She's going off to pick up Thomas,
or to pick up Tomana's Jesus. Names are hard. Fuck.
Names are hard, hard, all.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
Right, Serene. So that letter right back when she's still
kind of under she's she's writing in her code. It's
all flowers and stuff like that, right, All all of
her letters pre betraying the Dark One are yellow wax.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Okay, sorry, that was a tangent from this letter. I
just needed to have that what I today, I was
today years old when I learned.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Okay. Also, and here's another point she makes. There is
a chapter called red Wax in Lord of Chaos, which
is the seal on the agreement more Gasee made with
the White Cloaks to give the major concessions, right, and
pedro Nile's blood was spilled and destroyed.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
That right, right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
And that was a red wax one, right, So just
you know, there's a little bit of the red wax
versus anyway, So that's a bit of a tangent, right,
it seems to indicate hard to really tell what's in it, right,
because we don't get direct evidence for it. But Rand
does say someone told him that Stepanaeus, a little birdie
basically told him that Stepaneus was being kidnapped by the

(51:20):
White Tower. One would assume that's in this letter.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
Because Kats Twaine disavows knowing anything about it. Right, she's
as surprised as anyone else. Okay, I forgot about that,
but I think you're right. I'm obviously you're right because
you're reading from Linda. But like that rings a bell.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
So here's the quote the king of Aradmon, where did
she find him? And said, how did you know a
friend left me a secret? The White Tower collected Matt
and Stepaneus to protect him. Well, it wasn't too much
of a leap to wonder if they might have done
the same thing with other monarchs.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
Ah uh huh. So that was a very eyes to
die move of her. That wasn't even like a dark
one betrayal kind of thing. That was just some regular
Isidae machinations that she could have done as a brown Also.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
It's possible the letter says that where am on and
oh who's that the girl with him and a Yella. Yeah,
Wheremon and Anni Yella were dark friends. It may also
have told him that.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Well, he sees it on them with his magic vision
the next time he sees them.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
Yes, and then he says, so it is you both
of you. So maybe not where am on? But like
she says, hey, be these people, I think you've got
a dark friend in this group, right, Because he says
it is you both of you. Right, there's that moment
where like he's confirming something that somebody already told him.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Okay, I could accept that.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Maybe not necessarily that's where I'm on, but that there
is a dark friend in.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
There, because I just don't see why she would give
him regularized to dyet stuff that seems underwhelming, but dark
friend's stuff that she couldn't know he would get magic
vision for seeing anyway, that seems reasonable.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
But again, this is all I'm reading this from because
I couldn't find anything else where he react to the
information here.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
Yeah, I think it must be a warning that there's
some dark friends in people he knows and trusts, knows
and trusts quote unquote among those people. Yeah, that's that
makes the most sense because I love the idea that
she was just dropping him eyes to eye stuff as well.
Maybe she put both things in the letter. I mean,
maybe she gave him like cake with frosting. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
Something else to realize. Gallad has a letter that maybe
from Varren. Oh yeah, I saw Gallad of the letter,
which matches the description of Varrein's letter. Galad was talking
something to his pocket. A small letter appeared with a
red seal. Where had he gotten that? He looked troubled,
Those expression lightened as he arrived.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
We never get any follow up on that. No, I
do like the idea that Varn decided just as an extra,
extra extra contingency, she was going to get a letter
to Galad Damadrete of all people.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
But I wonder it's like that's the brother too. I mean,
he doesn't know he's Grhand's brother at that point, does he.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
No, he doesn't learn that until the last battle.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
He learns that with Gawan and dying in his arms.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
And he's not told his mother's alive. Galad finds out
no Varren the letter doesn't tell him.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Oh no, no, no, no, no no.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
So it's one of those moments where I don't know
what that letter says to Golla, no idea.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
Maybe it was about Valda.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
Mm.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Maybe she was gonna be like, hey, goody too, shoes lawful,
good guy, you should know that the head of your
order is a raging dark friend.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
That makes sense, Yeah, because she she can prepare those
letters ahead of time as a dark friend and then
send them once she's taken the tea or if nobody
maybe if nobody gets them before she dies.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Yeah, if she, if she hands them out and says,
don't give this out unless certain conditions are met, and
those conditions will only be met if she has died,
then it's safe. It fits within the range of her oaths.
So I bet it was a warning about Valda, and
he's confused as to why an is said die woulden
know that and tell him? I think that's why he's troubled.

(55:02):
I'm head canning that that's what it is, even though
he's already killed Walda. The fact that Varin knew and
is telling him is perplexing in its own right.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
May have also said that he did not kill his mother.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
No, because he's shocked as hell when he finally sees her.
I'm really curious why Tiana is the one that was
picked to give a letter to Rand, maybe because she
was mistress of Novices and so Varrein figured like she
will definitely make it through the unification. She won't die
or run away.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
I mean, she knows she's not a dark friend, and
she knows.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
She's a dark friend. Also very helpful. But yeah, Rand
doesn't read the note now because he knows that that's
information that can keep because he needs to really focus
on again. And he tells Swan, do your best to
call mcgwaine when I'm done, Like he knows he's going
to piss her off, and he knows that Swan is
someone that Agwaine can vent to, or at least she
was before the rescue. But then he strides into a

(55:55):
POV switch to Agwaine third POV of the chapter, I.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
Mean kind of the first POV over again, right, because
we're back to Agwayne. It's really good, is that two
or three povs in a chapter if you do a
character switch away from them and then come back.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
Yeah, are you counting the number of characters of the
number of times we switch between them? Because I can't
like number of POV switches because as an editor, those
are really good. Hinge points to like structure, ad breaks
and stuff around. But yeah, if there's only two characters
represented by three switches, two switches anyway, numbers are fun.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
Numbers are fun. So the okay, the whole journey for me,
for this little POV is a GWayne going from Rand
Alphor is the dragon reborn, who's the most dangerous man
ever to oh, Rand Alphor is the one you want
to trust with the fate of the world. And she
does that in three pages.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
Yeah, she really goes on a full sign wave of
a journey or half of a sign wave of a journey.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Yeah, and you.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Know, again, I see a lot of the institution of
the White Tower really coming through and clashing with who
she is as a person, as an individual. I really
see the conflict of those two you know, unstoppable for
us and amovable object, right, because she is Agway an
alvier of the two rivers, but also she's the amorlane seat,
and how she thinks of Rand really oscillates between those

(57:30):
two pieces of her.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
And she's like, you know, he has destroyed, he has conquered,
but like, is that not what the Dragon reborn is supposed.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
To do right, and then I love his insight of
like I wanted to avoid eyes said, I control, But
that was because that would have meant that you were
responsible for what I did, and that would have been
really nice. Actually, it turns out to have someone else
be responsible for all this shit that I've done.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
Listen, if you've been the boss long enough, you know
it's nice when you got some else to blame shit
on and you can, uh, just not my responsibility.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
I like this sentence. I was broken, Rand said, and
then remarkably, I was re forged. I think he almost
had me, Agwayne, it was cod Swain who set me
to fixing it, though she did so by accident. Still,
I shall have to lift her exile. I suspect they offhanded.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
I guess I should revoke her exile.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
She did fix me. But that's you know, and this
is the fulfillment of everything that men's prophecy said that
she was going to teach him something, and later in
a later chapter in this book, he says, she taught
me that we weren't just weapons, that were men too,
and that's where he sends that letter to the Black
Hour and says, you know, you're not just weapons, you're
men too. That's the lesson that god Swain taught him

(58:45):
by accident.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
And all she did to do that was bring Tam
into the picture.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
That seems to be what's going on?

Speaker 1 (58:54):
Yeah, couldn't someone else have done that without being a
raging bully for fucking books upon books.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
And only says it was Codswain who set me to
fixing hit. She put me on the path to fixing
it by accident is literally what he says.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
Could someone else who was not a bully not have
had that happy accident? Could Min not have thought, maybe
my father in law should know what's going on with
his son, you know, I mean they should be married, right,
so like should be father in law right? Like, maybe
Min could have thought of that and it wouldn't have
been just all the angst of cad Swain. Like anyone

(59:30):
can have an accident. We didn't need Kadswain for that.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
And then there's this moment where she notices he's talking
in this very sort of elevated educated speech and that's
Lewis Thearren coming through.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
He suddenly sounds like he went to Eton. He suddenly
has the Eton accent out of nowhere.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
And it's because he literally has the memories of someone
who did go to Eton in his head. Now like
he's reintegrated with that person, and so some of that
unconscious training and tutelage, right, like if you know more
words and you use more words, suddenly talk different one.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Also, he's inside, both literally and figuratively, an institution which
has held on to a lot of the trappings of
the age that loose their incomes from. Right, he is
addressing the omorland seat formally in a packed hall of
the tower. Their institution has moved much slower than the
culture outside the White Tower. Like this is a space

(01:00:25):
where that sort of formal, old timey way of presenting
yourself is actually like logical and appropriate. So he fits
here more than a lot of the modernized to die,
because he has memories of what they were trying to
rebuild when they put this place together in the first place.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Pavara and Javindra hadn't returned from their unknown mission. Where
are they going?

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Black Tower? Okay, to mostly die except for Pavara because
andrel Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
It is amazing how many of that group just dies
again a winnowing of the old school White Tower. This
is just not very many of them left, even going
into the last battle. And that's before Shara comes along
and goes, fuck you. Yeah, seriously, GWayne, why is Ran
just talking idle philosophy? What's the point? Right? Like, because
he is, He's in this very like, uh. It reminds

(01:01:16):
me a lot of actual Michael Kramer when he gets classifizing.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Love Michael so much. But yeah, it also reminds me
of like, this is good as Chameo, right, this is
the philosopher that's kind of nihilistic. He's like nothing matters,
so everything matters, and isn't that neat right? This is
the student that Harod Fell wanted to have as his
grad student, right when Harrod Felt was like, you should

(01:01:41):
come study philosophy with me. You shouldn't be bothering with
all this whatever else you're doing, you should just say.
This is that side of him. This is if Aeshameo
had love mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
And this is very much the glass is half full,
whereas the Shamele's the glass is half empty. And then
you know the White Tower saying the glass is exactly
fifty percent liquid fifty percent air.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Right, exactly exactly. Randon is very much on a cloud
nine glasses half full.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
He's just he's listing all the things that he needs,
a bunch of things he needs to fix. And it's
a subset. But right, he's like, I have too much
to do to hang around, right, people starve. He's talking
about air Demon. Others live in terror. What I've done,
I mean, that's tons of people. A friend rides to
his death without allies, that's lamb, and there's so you know,
so like there's so little time to do what I must.

(01:02:28):
He's like, oh my god, I've made so many mistakes.
I have to go direct to fy a bunch of
this stuff. And he also has a better understanding of
how to use his powers as the dragon Reborn of Balance. Right,
so he knows he can go fix some of the
starvation and fight the Dark One's influence on his troops
and on the people around him. Now he can do
the thing with the apples in air domon.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Right, Like, Meanwhile, I Gwinne's like, so can we like
back him into a padded room if we walk slowly?
Like She's having a completely different trend of thought, like Ran,
we need to like we need you to let us
look at you with our magic medicine. He's just like, look,
I girl, I really I don't want to defy you
in your seat of power, because I know that it's

(01:03:10):
a very shaky seat. But also no, no, we're not,
We're not doing that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Like you can't keep me. It's interesting to me that
we don't really see it in the moment, but later
they talk about how everybody else is just tongue tied,
and Gwain doesn't seem to feel that at all. She's
just kind of annoyed at him.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
They're having a normal conversation as far as she's concerned.
It's an important and weird conversation, but there's nothing heavy
or tight about the space. The way the others describe.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
Again makes me go severe and by proxy right, like
she's somehow not affected by his severeness around her.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
Well, also in this case, I think he doesn't want
to hear from the rest of them while he talks to.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
Her, right right, he's shutting them down.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
His severeness is, yeah, he wants to have an uninterrupted
conversation with her, so tevereness allows them that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
I like that idea that he's actually using his powers
to shut down everybody else, but not a GWayne, because
he wants to hear what she has to say.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Because if she has to split her attention between talking
to him and controlling the tower controlling the Hall, they're
not going to have a good conversation. He needs her
undivided attention to get this message through. I am going
to break the seals in one month. You need to
plan for that. And it's so funny. She's like, Rand,
we have to talk about this and plan. He's like,
that's why I told you, so you can plan.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
I do love that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
Like he knows how the White Tower is, he knows
how iside are right. This is a Tomerlin to Omerlin thing.
He's like, you need a month to plan, So I'm
giving you your month to plan.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
And his plan is, you know A I want you
as an ally because I feel like I need sidin Insidar.
I don't know what the solution is, but I know
I'm going to need both powers. I can't just use one,
so that's why I'm giving you a heads up.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
But also out of respect to the fact that she's
Watcher of the Seals and he's saying, look, watcher of
the Seals. The seals need broke, like, I feel like
you deserve a heads up because that's been your charge
for three thousand years.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
Would have much rather see her break the seals and
Logan give himself up to the flame of Tarvalin. I
think that would have been a better way to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
Making angry agreement faces.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
The Watcher of the Seals should have broken the seals.

Speaker 3 (01:05:14):
Yeah yeah, and then Logan should have been freed of
his life of trauma by doing a cool thing and
doing the Flame of Tarvalin and helping redeem the concept
of Ashamon would have been awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
Anyway, the Oshaman undid bail fire when the Ice and
I thought that it couldn't be done.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
It would be cool, but we should get out of
here with our shitty head cannons and go back to
the real story.

Speaker 2 (01:05:37):
Did someone tell us to stop going on our shitty
head canton just.

Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
Like out there on the internet at large, because I
was browsing comments that have been made on our Facebook.
It's just like ah boy, oh yeah. And the other
important thing that he's doing here, right is he's tricking
her into organizing a bunch of other people to also
come to the fields of yes, or he's offloading a
lot of bureaucratic work on hers. Honestly, kind of sexist.
He's making a girl do all the work.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
All the organizing. You talk to everybody, get everybody together
for the party, get the balloons exactly, and I'll show up.
I'll be there, I promise.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
Mmm mmm mm hmmm, something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
In one month's time, which does give us a bit
of a timeline, right, in one month's time, I'm going
to travel to shale Gool and break the last remaining
seals on the dark one. I want your help, and
I want you to meet me on the day before
I go to Shoe Goal.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
We've abandoned the old timeline. Now we have a ticking clock.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
Right, although I don't think he exactly follows that timeline,
because I feel like he meets with him for a
while and then like he goes fights, Like I feel
like the battles go on for a while after the
meeting at marrillor before he goes to shale Gool. He
doesn't do it the next day.

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
Am I misremembering that wibbly wobbly timey? Whymy the closer
you get to Shaye Gool the faster time goes, so
for him it is basically an afternoon.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
I feel like that only happens after he enters show goool.
Before that, I think time is still running linearly everywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
I'm pretty sure it breaks sooner than that, but I'm
not sure. It's very wibblewobble timey.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
Whymy, because I think he goes in the morning, and
that's when you get time that like stretches out.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
Yeah. I don't remember when it starts or any fat,
but yeah, he does want to have the meeting with
time to have discussions, right. He wants to hammer out
the dragons piece. He says, he has terms before he
is going to go in, right, he knows is it
going to take a while, And.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
He's been so I guess he's been sitting up on
the mountain planning some of this stuff while he's been
having in emphany. It's like, what do I need to do?

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
Well? Also, that was a long walk, like you said,
so he had a lot of time to plan on
the walk.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
Yeah. Yeah. Did he write the Dragon's piece in his
head on his walkover from Dragon Mount?

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
I guess so? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
And yeah, so then he's like, all right, so anyway, Mike,
drop piece, I'm out and he turns to walk away,
and she is like, absolutely, you know you do not
turn your back on the Omorland seat Randolph Thord. And
he doesn't. He turns back and has a much more
respectful exit, but he also his eyes says, do not
make me make this weird. I will make this weird

(01:08:04):
if you force to issue another fucking.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
Hair and he says I must go, and she says, okay, right,
that's which good for her not trying to keep him.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
In that moment, she recognizes how to pick her battles,
and then we have a lovely moment where she says,
this is not ended, and he responds, there are no endings.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
Take that isid eye? Get your own isid eye answer back?

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
Well, also, it's just like that's what any of us
in the fandom would say. And someone said anyone endings
to us, we're all going to reflexively say there are
no endings. So it is random fan of the Wheel
of Time. That's the question.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
I mean he reads the prophecies, right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
Yeah, so he is a fan. He is a fan.
He's a fellow fan. Randal Thora is one of us,
one of us.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
I mean, Yosha certainly was true.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
He still is, the man's still alive. He's still a
fan of the books.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
Well, I you know, I don't know. He's still a
fan of the books.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
Right, So he can't not be a fan of the books, right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
I heard he reread them too, So but is that
is he a fan or is that, you know, something
that he feels like would make him better at his job.
Because I feel like, honestly, if I had a major
role across multiple years that had involved a series of books,
the first thing I would do is sit down and
read those books.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
Well yeah, but was you reread them?

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
If they were maybe just saying he's.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
Got really moody Instagram pictures. I think he might just
like the books.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
He likes the books. I agree, I agree, And I
know it is sceptical, but I do think he likes
the books.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
Yeah, and yeah, he leaves and they said, I go, wow,
that was really really weird. That's basically the readout. I
don't really have much else to talk about in this no.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
I think just the conversation between Agwayne and Rand. I
would have loved to see a little more commisering of
Rand being like, I don't know them being friends. It
was very Amberlyn Dragon reborn, and I would have loved
to see more Randagwayn.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
There was no reunion.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
There was no reunion.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
Yeah, this was just a negotiation between heads of state.

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
Right, And I think that's something that I really miss
in these books is when these characters who have been
a part since really end of book seven do my
as well as comes together. And then Rand sends off
Parrien and sends off Matt and he hasn't seen Agwayne
in a long time. And the only character of the

(01:10:38):
five who comes back together is really naive And that's
a great right his whole like dressing up as the
ugly guy and sneaking in and telling her she needs
to come with him to cleanse the seals and everything
like that. I love that reunification scene, and I feel
like none of the rest of them get that level
of moment together.

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
It would have been nice if frant had asked for
a bit of a private audience as part of this
whole thing, to be like, Mother, can we step into
your chambers for like a few minutes away from the
hall properly, not just with Tevere and Cone of silence,
but like actual behind closed doors, can we like hug.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
You know, right, right, like I've missed you like that
level of like I missed you, Agwayne and your stubbornness,
oh you stubborn full randolphor right.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
And congratulations on surviving this? Where how do you lose
your hand?

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
Right, she sees that he's lost a hand as he
turns to go. It'd be so nice if she like
grabbed his arm and was like, bro, what the hell
did you let happen to you? You know?

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
But they're just they're they're fronting with each other so much,
they're hiding so much and sad, Yeah, it's sad.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
She sees him as an antagonist, even though she comes
through all the thoughts she had, which we really ignored
her thought process in its details throughout this chapter.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
Yeah, we talked about beginning.

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
And despite the fact that she came through that, she
still sees him as more of a changed antagonist then
as someone she used to know. Like, despite all the
thoughts she had, she still ultimately falls on the side
of he's a problem to be fixed, he's someone to
be dealt with, quote.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
Unquote, and I don't feel anybody else of the Emmonsfield
five feels like that, Like Matt kind of has some
of those thoughts early on, but later he's like, yeah,
you know, he's still the dragonry born. He still ran,
and I'm going to fight for him, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):
Which is pretty consistent with how he treats Agwayne. So
Matt's fine, that's consistent in that way. But again, I
really just look at Agwaine as like inhabiting the institution
to a point that her personality is eroding into the institution.
She really is the White Tower to a degree that
is upsetting.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
Like, and we've talked about this a bunch of times,
but back when she thought the elves were too much
and needed to be banished, and now she's like, one
hundred percent oath serve the way to go. That's what
the White Tower needs. And you're just like, uh, I
kind of like two reasons for getting rid of them.

Speaker 1 (01:12:58):
Yeah, but alas she has very much not chosen that
fork on the path, and we get this, Agwayne, and
uh yeah, I'm ready to read her out if you
can give it this or anything else. Okay, how did
you resist it? Mother, Sylviana asked Agwainne frowned. She hadn't
felt that way, perhaps because she thought of him as Rand.

(01:13:19):
We need to discuss his words. The hull of the
tower will reconvene in one hour's time for discussion. That
conversation would be sealed to the hall, and someone followed
to make sure he really leaves. Gareth Brynn is doing so,
Chuw Baines said from outside. The sitters pulled themselves to
their feet, shaken, Sylviana leaned down. You're right, mother, he

(01:13:41):
can't be allowed to break the seals. But what are
we to do if you won't hold him captive? I
doubt we could have held him, Agwaine said, there's something
about him. I had the sense he would have broken
that shield without a struggle. Then how how do we
stop him? We need allies, Agwaine said. She took a

(01:14:03):
deep breath. He might be persuaded by people that he trusts,
or he might be forced to change his mind if
confronted by a large enough group united to stop him.
It was now more vital that she speak with Elaine
and to nim Eve. There it is.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
That's a fun chapter.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
It's good, as much as we don't really like the
Aguaine Rand interactions, specifically, It's a good chapter for plot,
for tie ins, for talking about other tangents and stuff like.
There's lots of good prophecy. Yeah, the dreams so good
to ya.

Speaker 2 (01:14:35):
I really like that one. Glad we did as a
standalone so we could really because I knew we were
going to tangent hard on.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
That one took us an hour and twenty minutes. Yeah,
that totally makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:14:43):
Thank you everybody for joining us. Once again, I don't
think we have anything important to announce or say at
this point, and by.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
The time that you hear this as a recording what
Idol voting will already be over. But I do encourage everyone.
If you have not seen the w Idol playlist, definitely
should go check it out. I'll include the link to
it in the show notes for this episode. You can
find it also in our server if you're listening to
this live. Definitely vote. But yeah, I will just say
what Idol was really really fun this year, as per usual,

(01:15:12):
and I do think we're going to need to do
a bonus episode covering some of the entries because there
was a lot, as we said before. Other than that,
do you remember to listen to my other podcasts autistic
stuff for artistic people and used to sew remember to
stay paying enough attention to the world that you're angry,
but not so much that your blood pressure goes up

(01:15:33):
too much.

Speaker 2 (01:15:35):
Yeah, and I'll say I've been reading Dungeon Crawler Carl
for the second time, very much enjoying it. It's definitely
not a book I can recommend to everybody, but it's
a book that does a good job of expanding the
world building after book three. It's like some other series
that we're familiar with. So the first three books definitely
established sort of a central character and theme, and then

(01:15:56):
book four and from then on continues to grow the
world world and grow the characters and become a bit
more than just a simple lit RPG, which I think
is the genre. So if you're looking for something to read,
I think it's worth giving a try. But I don't
think everybody's gonna love it, but I do think it's
it's it's worth trying as a serious awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):
On that note, we will bid you all and you
should I do Patreon kiddings, bye bye. Thank you for

(01:17:15):
listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. Please rate
and review us on your podcast app, and consider supporting
us on Patreon for ad free episodes. Watts Spoilers is
a production of Fox and Raven Media. For more podcasts
from Fox and Raven Media, visit our website at Foxendravenmedia
dot com

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The Amyrlin’s Anger - Towers of Midnight chapter 3 - EP547

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Amyrlin’s Anger - Towers of Midnight chapter 3 - EP547