The Gathering Tangent - EP543 - WoT Spoilers

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. Welcome back
to WATT Spoilers, Tangents, the Gathering Tangent.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
I think the gathering tangent. Yeah, the tangent storm doesn't.
The tangent storm would work now, but the gathering tangent.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, the gathering tangent is definitely the way it goes. So, yeah,
welcome to the Gathering Tangent. We're here to talk about
mostly Watcon, I think, but also maybe we'll quickly review
everything that's happened since November because that's when we started
the book. Sure, but yeah, that's kind of what we're
here today. We don't have guests or anything. It's going

(00:52):
to be pretty pretty short and sweet.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
It's been a long time since I've been on a
Tangent's episode. You keep having them without me. Oh yeah,
I don't know do on these anymore. You're gonna have
to lead me through. I'm completely okay.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
So our special guest today is set the voice you
never hear on a Tangent super cut.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
I don't know how to do this.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, yeah, Tangents. We just talk about whatever, and I
usually do structure it by the timeline of the book. Kay,
just because that provides some kind of beginning middle end.
So we started the book in November. We were looking
at our schedule before we started the recording. We started
this back in November, and you were saying that you

(01:34):
were reminding me that we actually didn't finish the preceding
book before you got married, right, So you came back
from your wedding vacation or wedding break, actuated your honeymoon later,
and then we finished that book and then we got
to Gathering Storm all the way in November.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yes, So I mean I had what I would consider
one of the busiest nine months of my life since
the marriage.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Right, which is the time for the book.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Yeah, the time of the book. So I mean just
in my personal life. Timber died shortly after the wedding,
which was a huge shock, right right, And so that
was like right about the time I think we started
this book. Here, this book. I'm entirely sure about the
timing there, which was hard for a while, it still
is hard. And then Travis, you know, blessed him, Yeah,

(02:25):
bless him. But he basically had a neighbor who was
had an out of control puppy who they weren't dealing
with and that puppy became ours. We hadn't even put
away Timber's food bowls. I mean it was wild. Yeah. So,
and that is Harvey having a new puppy who was
I mean he was eight months old when we got him.

(02:46):
We did track down his original birth records and so
we have and his original owners who we have permission
to keep him from because they never they only had
him about a week before he was stolen or lost.
So yeah, he's been a big focus of my life
the last where actually we will have had him for
six months as of tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
So and six months they always say is that time
when it's the most chaotic when the dog. And we've
really found the last few weeks he settled in really,
really well. But those first six months were hard. I
mean he was a the kind of dog who would
bite our ankles and wrists to get our attention. He
would just walk up in your face and bark. And
he has a very loud, very startling, very triggering bark

(03:26):
when it's in your face. He was, you know, shitting inside.
He was not body trained at all for an old
month puppy. That's that's tragic, right, Like at that point.
They should be fully all those things should be well done.
But he has been incredibly smart, incredibly trainable, still a
giant bundle of energy, and because he's sixty five pounds,

(03:47):
he does occasionally smack or into us and hurt us
occasionally because he's just he can't control the energy sometimes.
But the intentional biting, the intentional hurting is stopped now
that he's much more assure, he's much more settled in.
He and the cat are friends right like, they're sniffing
each other and cuddling on the bed together, and you know,

(04:08):
he's still was driving. He came in here he wanted
to play ball while I was getting set up and
totally got caught on one of the cords and freaked
out because he was caught and went slam. All the
computer stuff went sliding onto the ground, and I was like, god, yeah,
So he's that level of just chaotic puppy. But he's
he's a good dog, and he hasn't had an accent
inside in a long time, and he's well great trained.

(04:29):
Still working on strangers. He's still not great with strangers,
but just a little more time and I think he's
going to be a great dog.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Right, So it's probably been the gathering Harvey. Yeah time, A.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Lot of my personal dime has been spent on you know,
dog walking, dog training, just playing with him.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
And like every episode has had a dog update of something.
Really like if you listen to this book specifically, you're
getting a lot of like you can follow the progression
of the dog for this last book.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
And from crying to oh what a good puppy.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah really this is this is that book. This is wow.
I haven't thought about that, but yeah, this book encapsulates
that that horrible transition with Timber into the wild circus
that is Harving.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah. In that time, we also, I think we went
on our honeymoon in January. That was January.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, yeah, you did that in the winter. You very
wisely ran away south from sunshine in the middle of
the North Pacific, northwest of winter. Honeymoon and that was.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
An amazing honeymoon, had an amazing time. Snor. I went
went not circling. I went scuba diving. I have a
history of swimming, so I love, love scuba diving when
I whenever I can do it. It's it's being able
to breathe on water, breathe underwater feels very magical to me.
We went horseback riding because never wanted to do it,
and then just were lazy, a bunch in the.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
In the you know, lazy in an exotic location is
a fantastic vite.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Never made a bunch of friends. Like we had a
great time on the beach. And she speaks pretty fluent
I wouldn't say fluent Spanish, but close to fluent Spanish,
close enough, close enough, yeah for that. And her Spanish
gets better when she's been drinking, so that helps. So
we had a great time doing that. Yeah than that,
just you know, work is work I've had. Also, here's

(06:07):
the crazy thing. I've had a bunch of friends. So
my life I started off in Philadelphia, was my first job,
and I was a more than innocent little, you know,
twenty two year old, twenty three year old coming out
of college and had a bunch of like a group
of friends who really took care of me. And it
turns out they all had kids about that time because
they were mature and I was not. And that's been

(06:29):
eighteen years and so it turns out all their kids
are going to college, and their kids are all going
to college around Portland. And so I've got this two
group of friends from Philadelphia from twenty years ago and
they're both moving to the Portland area.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, I've got a bunch of old friends coming into
Portland as well as like some podcast friends that have
moved to Portland. I'm looking at you, Neil and Amanda. Oh,
they went to Portland the area. They're not sorry they're
not in Portland, but sorry, Oregon, I should say Oregon,
but the Portland area. Think, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
I'm not gonna say exactly where they are because it's privacy, but.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
It's just like Portland. That's okay for me.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Portland is the center of Oregon because it's the city
that exists, that sort of anchors the rest of the country.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
It's the center of gravity. But people do live elsewhere.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, people make mistakes. I get that.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
I can't hear you from my Disney Princess existence in
the woods.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, I'm just kidding me. Shit, But you know, I've
hit this point in my life where I'm like, everybody's
kind of coming A lot of people in my life
are coming back into my sphere of influence, which is
a whole another kind of trippy. I guess if you're
old enough, everything comes back around.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Right apparently. Sure, seems like that's really cool having people
from your past come back in like a positive way.
That's really neat and like your friendships are picking up.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Oh yeah, pretty much.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
I mean, yeah, being weird because twenty years difference, yes,
but also like people don't change that much. Really, you
just get better at being yourself. I mean, if you're
doing it right anyway.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
Although it is all these old friends. I mean, we
used to drink together, right, That's what we did, and
now I'm not really drinking and they're older and also
not really like into that scene, so it's like, oh right,
we don't really want to pick up where we left.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
Literally watched a Ryan George sketch about this last night
that came out like two days ago, like literally, well just.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
Like people getting together and be like what do we
do now that we don't drink together?

Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, and like oh this food hurts my stomach and
I have a hard stop at nine pm and my
back hurts, and like just like what did we do together?
Like surely we're not all friends just because we were
sat together in class accidentally, Like I mean it was
referring back to high school friends. But still I think
it's the same the same light. Yeah, what if we

(08:50):
can't drink and we can't eat spicy food and we
can't go jumping off of cliffs and like now what
then then what is left just to talk to each other?

Speaker 2 (09:00):
What the fuck?

Speaker 3 (09:01):
Like?

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, like we have stuff in common right.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
Right right right as my friends with kids going to
college and having their own kids are like, oh, and
I'm like, I'm thinking about having a baby right yeah,
but actually I'm really happy one of my friends, you know,
like I said, her kids are going off to college,
and you know, she's absolutely seems is and she moved.
She's like, I don't know if I'm gonna be close
to you. I'm moving to Saint John's area and I'm like, yeah,

(09:27):
that's that's less than ten minutes away from where I am.
You're literally down the street. So I'm like, you're gonna
help me if I have babies, you're gonna help, You're
gonna be Yeah, you're gonna be my number one call.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
We all go at our own pace.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
We sure do, we sure do. Yeah. So I mean
that's that's my life for This book is kind of
New Dog. Oh, I bought a house. I suppose I
should mention that too.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
You bought the house right before you got married, but
you didn't get to move in until after the wedding.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
Right, No, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
There was something. There was something with that, right, I
clearly know how time works.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
No, we got we got married, and a month later
Timber died. And then about two weeks after that, we
got a nasty letter from our hoa telling us that
Timber was too big.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Right, it was the honeymoon that was bracketed around the move.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, it was the honeymoon, That's what it was. Yeah,
the honeymoon. We bought the house, we went on the honeymoon,
and we literally moved. Oh my god. Yeah, so we we.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Got back during this book.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, God, we got back from the honeymoon. We both
got so sick. We were both deadly ill. Our cat
also got deadly ill and nearly died and had to
be taken to the hospital and was on thousands of
dollars of medication. And that was the week that we
got Harvey, and that's the week we were packing to
move into our new apartment. So we were sick. Our

(10:54):
cat was sick, we got a new puppy, and we
were packing to move into our new house. So that
was a hard two weeks.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Yeah, you you were you were kind of dead for
those two weeks. I was definitely getting extremely like grunt
level texts at that time, like two or three words
every like week.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
To just be like I'm alive.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yes or no on the podcast, I technically am not dead. Yeah, yeah,
that was. That was a rough time. And in the
depths of winter. No, yeah, there's like no daylight, like, yeah,
that was. You had a rough rough time there. But yeah,
then you got in the house and have had shenanigans
in the house, all kinds of.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
Oh yeah, fun. Yeah, house has been fun.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
Told on the podcast or otherwise, and so yeah, that's
been quite the progression.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Yeah, and for the most most part of the house
has been it was moving ready. We haven't had any
problems with it. It's been a really easy process to
be in the house. The only you know, we're still
hot today. I realized how we were. We were in
stage three of moving in right. Stage one is like
get enough shit in there that you can survive in
the house, right.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Right, right, You got the bedroom and half.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
The kids, Yeah, exactly right. Stage two was like unpacked
everything and like spend some time settling in living in
the house. And stage three is going into those final
boxes that you stashed away and being like do we
actually need this or do we need to get rid
of it, or like we need to unpack the last
few things that we really didn't immediately have a need for.

(12:23):
But like today I opened up a bag of bags
and everyone's like, oh, here's all my purses. Oh when
this person has a bunch of stuff in it I've
been looking for for the last you know, six months.
So we're still in that stage of like finishing up
the unpacking.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
I'm very much still in that place too, because I
feel like I never ever finished moving into any given
apartment in college, Like that stage never got reached because
it's college life, and I'm also holding onto stuff that's
like not relevant until I'm done with college, So like
I still never quite finished because it's not fully sunk

(12:55):
into my brain that I'm in the house now right
like I'm getting there.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
I was like, how long you lived there? For years?
Many many years?

Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yeah, we're coming up on five years. And it's just
the habit of not really finishing unpacking is apparently hard
to break because I keep being like, fuck, that box
is still there and I know what's in it, and
it's really just like memento keepsake, du'ts cattro type stuff,
but like it should be out. I was saving it
so that way, when I had more space than a

(13:25):
shoe box of an apartment, I could have it out
like finish the intended thing act.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Well, and you caught me earlier calling this house an apartment, right,
I still think of it as an apartment. I'm renting,
and I can't break that, and it partially is. It
is a row house, so it does still feel very
apartment like in some ways. Right, I'm sharing walls, I
don't have a lot of yard space in the front
or back. It's a relatively low square footage home compared
to like a standalone home, although there are certainly smaller standalone,

(13:52):
single floor homes out there. But yeah, for me, I'm
definitely the kind of person who I need to be
completely unpacked at some point, Like the it's weighing on
my mind that there are boxes that have never been
unpacked sitting somewhere. I need to go through those and
sort through them.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
I just live with that sort of guilt dragging at
me all the time constantly, so like a few more
or less doesn't really make a difference in like the
cognitive load of all the things that I have to
do that I just feel shame about not having done.
Like there's just just a cup overflowing sort of energy.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
So speaking of which, you have to get on me,
and I have to get on me about getting the
tax stuff handled. Oh the pie, because audience, I fucked
up the business taxes, not majorly, I just didn't include
one of the forums that they want, and I send
it in with my personal taxes instead of in with
the business taxes, and that has gotten some trouble and

(14:44):
find us. So I have to get that resolved, which
involves calling the RS, which is why I've been putting
it off because that sucks. And I got the letter
like two days before walk On, So then it was
walk on, going to walk on, coming back from all
con being having to work for a week, and now
it's now.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
So what was I doing for all of that time?
I've really just been chilling, living my executively dysfunctional life.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
But yeah, I was gonna say, what's your so, I mean,
I know, in the last book you've been pretty stable.
I think update on your husband's foot, I think is
probably the only thing I can think of that's a
big major life change.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Okay, well, okay, I do actually have a few other things,
but that is relevant. I don't generally update the podcast
audience with that. But yeah, in the course of the
last year, he's gone from having like to be very
careful with the ankle situation to being pretty much back
to like hiking and awesome running around and like, you know,
he still has to be a little careful. There's still

(15:50):
definitely a couple of things that hurt and like stuff,
but he's he can do the things that he used
to be able to do before. Right, he has to
be slightly more careful about it, but like not in
a activity restricting way, just a nope, not going to
walk on the balance beam long across the creek, going
to find a stable ford for sure kind of situation.

(16:13):
But yeah, he can. He can live his life again.
It's great. It's been a really long three years, literally
three years since the actual injury happened, and he's finally
back to living like ninety percent of what life was
like before, just with bone spurs now, because that's apparently
a thing that happens when you have to repair yourself.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
Ah, those good for riding a horse. You can just
you know, basically, you know, get me up with ahead
with the bone spur.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
No, oh okay, I can't even feel them when I
massage his heel, but yeah, it's it's apparently quite painful.
But he still has been able to do stuff this
summer that like he was not able to do, so
that's been really really great. Modern medicine is awesome for sure.
If you need sports medicine, you should totally go to
Slow in Eugene. They have some of the best sports

(17:03):
medicine type surgeons and doctors there. And he effectively had
a football injury, even though he did not get it
playing football. It was you know, the kind of thing
you usually see in football players. So that's one big update.
But yeah, my house is very stable. My land is
putting out a lot of fruit this year. We put

(17:24):
cages up around the blueberries this year and I have
gotten i mean, probably close to ten pounds of fruit.
They just absolutely obnoxious amount of blueberries. I brought some
to wat Con and they really like kept me going.
But other updates in my life is I can't quite
remember when I started used to sew. It was I

(17:44):
think before this book started, But that has been a
thing that has been growing and progressing and evolving over
the course of this book. Is having a regular podcast
rhythm akin to this, but with my mom, where she's
really the driving force behind it. She's the main info dumper,
like I mostly provide color commentary with occasional info dumps.

(18:05):
Mostly it's her.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
You're like co hosting, which is like supporting the main
host by making sure that they're communicating clearly, and like
have someone to bounce ideas off of, but it's her
ideas and her communication right exactly.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
And and I do this like intro outro thing and
my stepdad masters it. And sometimes I put sound effects in.
I really should have done the hashtags so WAT challenge,
but I just did not have the brain power to
add yet another level of that intersection. But that's been
a really fun process working with her to create that.
She really likes listening to it. She's like one of

(18:39):
the rare podcast clients who actually listens to their own product.
And it is lovely to have a client who gives
you feedback on your editing because they actually listen to
the thing. So that's just been really cool.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Are you saying something about me, I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
Something about every other one of my clients, with the
exception of Queers of Time Cami. I love them. They
are very analytical and did have many constructive criticism things
to say on our first few rounds. Now we're good,
And I never get that feedback because I internalized the
feedback and you know, now we're good. But yeah, only
only Cami and my mom ever actually listen to the

(19:17):
finished product.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
I did. I did when you first started editing for
a while, but oh yeah you did. At some point
it's like, yeah, I don't need to. I'm going to
I'm not gonna have any better input on this than
you are. You you're taking You're being more careful with
it than I ever was.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
So yeah, but no, my mom actually really enjoys like
hearing the finished product, and she said, just listens to
him twice. Anyway, It's been a very fun process because
it's a very different podcast from this, but also I've
learned a lot of lessons from this and like using
that and also from a hot Nuance, which is a
podcast that no longer is being made because schedules are hard.
But like, nonetheless, I learned a lot from doing that

(19:54):
one that have applied there. I like literally use the
same time travel sound effect from one, so yeah, now
I already have a time travel sound effect. It's cool.
And so then from there, I also this year have
started a podcast with my autism coaching business, or not
my business, but my autism coaching career. With my fellow coaches.

(20:15):
We have started a podcast called Autistic Stuff for Autistic People,
and it's literally me and my coaching mentor as well
as two of my coaching colleagues, so four of us
collectively talking about stuff to do with being autistic in
the world, kind of you know, autistic info dumps and

(20:35):
autistic joy and this general lived experience as people. And
we've got three episodes out now. We're only releasing once
every other week, so that way we can kind of
record in boom and bust cycles of alignment of schedules
and everything, because you know, for autistic people in three
time zones, one of which is in Europe, it's hard

(20:58):
for sure. So we're able to record a lot and
then release kind of infrequently, but it's been a really
cool process again learning from my other podcasts, how do
I want to put this together? How do I want
my templates to work? And how freaking janky every one
of my new projects is. When I start, I'm like, yeah,

(21:19):
I know how to make a podcast. And then every
one of my new projects, the first two or three
episodes just suck. And then I figure out what I
want as a producer, as an editor, and then I
lock in and it starts being good and I start
having a rhythm and I have a script and I
know what I want. But the first few episodes is
just like, oh my god, this is so bad. I

(21:39):
thought I was a professional. I thought I knew what
I was doing, But for some reason, the process of
starting a new project means that you do get reset
to novice status. However, briefly like it's really weird.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
I think it's more about being a pros how fast
you can make that curve bend back into the professional level,
less about or you're going to start. You've figured that out.
You're going to start over anew with every project. You
have to build your workflows, and you figure out people's microphones,
figure out it you know what that person is doing wrong,
that's causing that echo, right, Like, you know, there's always
a level of troubleshooting in the beginning, and then once

(22:16):
you dial things in, you can you can be much
more professional. But yeah, I mean it's how quickly you
can dial things in For me, I think that's what
makes you good.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
And podcasting is also a collaborative process, so you have
to train the other person to do it. And my
mom has been very easy to train because she is
a professional musician. She's done studio work, so the transition
to podcasting, yeah, again, she was very professional. But it
didn't take her long to go from absolute novice to like, oh okay, yeah, yeah, sure,
Like has been using audacity for as long as I've

(22:46):
been alive almost you know.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
You don't have to train her on how on microphone discipline,
and yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
I mean slightly because it is a different mic to
do spoken versus singing, right, performance mics are different. But
also she has those two bins already in her head.
She just more used to one. Whereas my autistic podcast,
none of them are podcasters or performers of any sort,
so I have had to train them on where do
you find the menu options in Audacity in order to

(23:15):
and like walk them through every single step of how
to export and where to upload, and like by episode six,
they're starting to anticipate what I'm going to say next,
and you know, it's a much slower learning process, and
the questions they have are like not questions I expected,
because I'm just like, wow, you're you really are utterly
ignorant of this entire world. And everyone I've worked with

(23:36):
has had a degree of exposure that you do not have.
And they're learning. It's fine. You know, we've recorded like
nine episodes. I think at this point we've got three out,
so I've got plenty in the queue and ready to go.
But it's been an interesting learning experience coaching people to
that through that, and then also they want to help
me with publishing and stuff, and I'm like, ooh, yeah,

(23:59):
suddenly I'm a control freak and I don't know if
I know I need time and I know I need energy,
and I know I need to like delegate, but that
would mean letting you have some control over this process.
And suddenly that makes me feel like I have hives.
So a whole lot of cool learning experiences to go

(24:21):
through and that's really been a lot of what has
dominated my year this year. Like, yes, a lot of
things are stable, but that's really been my intellectual process
is these two curves.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
And I think that is also one of the reasons
why we stopped having so many guests on right, is
because it is like starting over. It's like starting a
podcast over every time you bring on a new guest,
Like there's always it shouldn't be that hard, but like
depending on how experienced the person is, what their microphone.
It's gotten easier since COVID, But I do think you
and I both hit this point where it's like we

(24:51):
are putting in as much work and setting up guests,
getting them set up, integrating them into the podcast as
we are on the whole rest of the podcast.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
But together, Yeah, I mean also, schedules are hard.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
And schedules are hard, right, like yeah, because we're like
we need to schedule. We want to put this podcast
out on a regular basis. We're going to record when
it's commedient for us, and if you can join us, fine,
But like it was easier. I think we were both
not working and we could move the schedule around to
accommodate guests.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah, now we've locked in. Like you have an externally
imposed schedule, I have an internally imposed one. But like
I have a lot of calls throughout the week. I
can't be just bouncing around, Like I have so many
scheduled events with different people for different reasons.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
Right, which is good because like you didn't used to
have that. And now I'm really happy with the different
podcasts and the volunteer stuff and like, yeah, you're busy, right,
and yes.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
I need to learn to delegate. I need to get minions.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
And I'm just you know, I'm working a full time job,
which I know for some of you you're like, well,
then what's the problem. It's just a full time job.
But turns out it doesn't leave me a lot of bandwidth.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, And that's fairy real. But the
other really exciting thing that happened is the thing that

(26:17):
just happened as we finished the book.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
Sure that Walt con. Yeah, so this is sort of
the main top we wanted to catch up on. What
are you doing? Talk about walk on and then we'll
talk about the Gathering Storm a little bit. Yeah, watchn
was a great fun week. I kind of went for
the first time in a long time to a con
as just a guest. I wasn't doing any part of
the planning. I was on any panels. I brought some
friends and I just I hung out. Huge shout out

(26:41):
to n NTOC, who's been on Discord quite a bit
for our live shows, but he was there at con.
I spent a good chunk of the con hanging out
with him. I brought one of my coworkers and the
three of us spent a big chunk of the weekend together.
So you know, I made tons of other friends and
I don't want to just single him out, but I
am just going to single him out because you know,

(27:04):
it was fun. We went through. We did a lot
of stuff together, and he was very social.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, Nemtalk has the dubious honor of being the person
who bought me the beer I didn't need for two
nights of the con. I really both times he was
being so nice and so observant of my desire for
another beer. In both cases I really shouldn't have had
that beer. So he gets the dubious honor of having
bought me the beers I didn't need twice at the con.

(27:32):
And I'm sorry you get that honor in em talk.
But it was great hanging out with you, definitely, and.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Then and then just the list of other people I
got to hang out with is so long that I
don't even want to go into it. At this point.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
I will say I did a lot better job of
taking selfies with people than I have on previous cons,
and I still didn't take even half the selfies I
should have. I hung out with so many wonderful people
and did not get selfies with them because I'm a
ding dong, and I just it was such a delight
to talk with everyone. I just I love this community

(28:05):
of nerds. You're all so smart and funny and come
from such interesting different backgrounds, with different skills and perspectives,
and it's just such a delight to get to mingle
with so many different people who have this one thing
in common and yet light blended foolded. When the poker
tournament Athlon was there, we got to hang out with Athlon,
which was hilarious because we've actually hung out at Spoiler Con, right,

(28:29):
This is like, I mean, yes, we've hung out with
Morgan before, but this was someone who had traveled a
great distance to come to Spoiler Con. And then also
traveled a great distance, well, a lesser distance, but still
a great distance to walt Con and so that was
a fun, like full circle kind of moment, being like,
I remember you last time in Portland, so long ago, and.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Then I just want to give out my blanket disclaimer
if you said you know something to me this weekend
about how you listen to my podcast or you like
what I do, or you know, hey, you're seth, and
I responded with something like thanks and then stumbled away,
I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
It's really.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
I really really appreciate when people come up to me
and tell me they're like, what do I do? Or
listen to the podcast? And I still have not figured
out a good way to respond to it without blushing, stammering,
and walking away. So thank you. I really do appreciate it.
You know, it makes my heart warm. I'll try better
next time, but I don't.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
It's so hard.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
It's so because I can see the numbers. I can
see there are people listening to the podcast, but realizing
those people exist in real life and might actually come
up to me and say something, it's just I don't
think my brain has ever been able to reconcile those
two things.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
Hm, Yeah, you should have grown up as the child
of a performing artist who puts out albums where your
small child's voice is on one of the albums, then
you will know how to process that.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, that would be easier. Yeah, no, yeah, you have
faces of pants a saying yeah, you guys have faces
and like you're your real people, and I love you
for that. But my god, I'm still not one hundred
percent gracious about it, and I really wish I was
better about that.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
Well, it's okay. I still have never had the nerve
to actually hang out with Michael and Kate like a
normal human being. So you know, we've all got our
strengths and weaknesses.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
I didn't spend a lot of time with them this weekend.
I did get to say hi a few times, and
I did listen to them for like an hour one night,
but it was really late. Yeah, they were just I
was like, you know what, there's a bunch of people
who want to spend time with them. I've gotten to
do it in the past. I don't want to try
and hog Michael and Kate this weekend.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah. I told myself this was going to be the
year I would be normal, and then I was not,
so I just avoided them because terrifying. I loved that
so much. I mean I was in pretty close proximity
to Michael on the dance floor, yeah, which is always
fun because he shreds the dance floors so hard and
it's just the most fantastic thing. And I had a

(31:06):
great time at the dance party this year because I
remembered earplugs always seeing Lee the interpreter always tears the
dance floor to ribbons, and then Michael just comes in
and it's it's I mean, the dance party is great.
I love everyone there, but Lee and Michael are perhaps
my favorites.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
I did not go to the dance party. It was
too loud for me and I did not bring headphones, so.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
Ear plugs really helped.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah, I walked in and went. I would love to
hang out longer, but this is I don't know if
it's louder than it's been in the past years or
if I'm just more sensitive than I used to be.
But I had to walk away. I had to walk
away from it.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
I was wearing earplugs like all through dinner and for
all of me in stage programming. It was just kind
of my mom when I was in that room.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
But then what's great about Watcan is you can walk
out of the dance floor and there's a huge group
of people playing board games right outside the dance floor,
and it's like, if you're not comfortable with that, you
can do that instead. Yeah, and uh yeah and played
cards and yeah. Like I said, I I got to
hang out with so many cool people.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
I don't even big shout out to talk a round
Riodd yet again for doing their what idle inclusive sing
along party.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, you love that lobby.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
That is one of the best things in the entire world.
And I love them so much for doing that and
having what idle parody lyrics in the repertoire. It's just
so great. So always have to shout them out for
doing that.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Also really entertaining Panels. You know, you can't go without
shouting out the panels, right, like they do such a
good job of making interesting people talking about Wheel of
Time content in front of people that there's I got
to see a trial. I always enjoy a good trial,
a mock trial. At this time, they were going after Rand.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
For the no it was loose there, the attack attack
on the on the shale Gorul at the end of
the Booring.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, at the end of the War of Power and
basically like doing that without you know, he was told
not to by the women's side of things, but you know,
and also using the show had the Tamerlin be the authority,
be the woman in that situation, and so there was
like ops arguing, you know, oh, well, the TV show's
not accurate. The book is more accurate. And it was fun.
It was fun. It was it was pretty good. Yeah,

(33:18):
and just a bunch of other you know, great Wheel
of Time content panels that you I can watch. I
want to go back and watch mall online. I haven't
had a chance to do that.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
I got to remember to watch the streams or the
recordings because those are all available on the website.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
I'm the creative program or the creative track person, and
it's really fun to see them getting put together, like
to see the other track directors talking about what they've
got going on and seeing the panels that I'm quote
unquote responsible for organizing themselves. And I always do my
content creation panel and that's always a great time. I've

(33:52):
now had two people transition from being in the audience
to on the panel in the course of my years
doing it, which makes me feel very accomplished. I am
encouraging people to make content and feel confident in what
they're doing, and that just makes me feel really productive
and happy. And then I also went and watched one

(34:12):
of the panels. I watched the Resistance in Other Stories panel,
because we always have a something in Other Stories panel,
and this year it was Forms of Resistance, and I
went to that and watched it, and that was a
really cool, interesting discussion of all these different fictional universes,
and it was the one it's one of the few
things that's not Wheel of Time, but it's also you know,

(34:34):
we're still all unified by Wheel of Time, and it's
it's really fun to see how people engage with that material.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Oh, the other panel I really liked was the writing
an Outrigger novel, whereas basically coming up with some speculation
about what an Outrigger novel would look like. I, of course,
am completely disagree with all the conclusions that they came to,
because I have my own head canon and would write
it my own way, But it was really fun to
see somebody else sort of write that novel and how
they would put together and what they would want to
talk about and then that sort of thing. So it

(35:03):
was structured a little differently than I thought it was
going to be. But I really did enjoy the panel
because he had written he had written a little short
of like a chapter, and he had sort of proposed
a bunch of things in that chapter had happened, and
then it was like, okay, being that these things have happened,
how did we get there? And so there was there
was almost a stake in the ground that we were
trying to get to rather than the infinite possibilities, which

(35:24):
I get why you want to do that in the panel, right,
like yeah, limit time limits are very real. So really
enjoyed that panel as well. That was really good, so
you know, and then the food was amazed that the
food's always really good.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
I had my usual issues with food. I thought hot
sauce was going to fix all of my problems, and
it fixed about a third of my problems. So I
ate better than I ever have, but still woefully insufficient
to what I needed to do for me.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
It was not being on any panels and being there
entirely one hundred percent as a guest. I was so
low stress. I just enjoyed myself and so I was
able to eat.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
I think it's just the sheer noise floor of the
whole thing being indoors for days and it's just all indoor, bouncing,
flat panels of sound, and I don't know, it feels
like noise overload to me. That just my body is like, no,
we're in flight mode, like we cannot be digesting. What
are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (36:19):
And it starts with the airplane, right because the airplanes'
are allowed to tell the noise.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
Canceling headphones make it so much better, but it is
still a full body experience to be next to a
jet engine for several hours. Yeah, it's my least favorite
part about WACAN is getting there. Yeah. The main stage
programming was pretty amazing too.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
Oh yeah, I mean we've we got to see the
costumes from the show, which I mean.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
The costume designer for seasons two and three, and she
brought five of the show costumes for display and it
was she was very excited to talk about them four hours.
She was quite the hit at the con. She was
really cool.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
And I think all the things we've said about the show,
I never think we we always complimented the costuming. We
always thought that they did a very good job with
the costuming.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
I've never heard a complaint about the costuming, even from
the people who just hate the show, Like, the costuming
is never what I hear about before I managed to
ignore them. The costuming is never their top three issues,
you know.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
No, I've had them. See, well it's too clean.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
I'm like, you mean, I don't give a good goddamn yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Because we are not. This is not a medieval fantasy.
This is not a medieval fantasy.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
Let me have pretty fantasy. Let me have fantasy.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Yeah yeah, Oh you mean the women who can use
the one power to clean their dresses have clean dresses
all the time. What a shock.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
Wow, but it's really unrealistic that they age.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Okay, okay, oh wait people in the two Rivers have
a wool sweater the like.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Wow, oh no, but it looks the costumes have always
been a thing that are top three on people who
are complimenting the show. Costumes is like so easily a
common thing that people are just in love with, even
season one, but seasons two and three, Huh, it's getting
to see this woman talk about her process and her
team and her enthusiasm was like, I get why the

(38:16):
costumes are so amazing. This is a lot of passion.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Well, and the fact that she did the Shawn Chan
in season one as well, that was her first project, right,
so like there was that real, oh my god, the
Shawn chann are rolling in and they are completely different look.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
Which like knockout part of season one.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, And there were there were a few things where
she was like she thought that it was from the books,
but she invented it. A couple of times where she was.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
Like, I loved that Robert Jordan was smiling down upon
that moment. That made him happy.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
And just some of the coincidences, like the fact that
they were they ended up using raven feathers.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
For Yes Serendipity magic for the Shawn Chan.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
The Shawn Chan headress what was her name, the yes Roth.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
Yeah, yeah, it was in the outfit and she didn't
even know.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
She didn't know. She just like like we all we
all clocked those raven feathers right away, and it just
happened to be. I mean, I'm sure the bin of
raven feathers was there because raven feathers are something they use, right,
But She's like, I just grabbed a bin of raven
feathers who were sitting there, and they worked perfectly, And
that's just serendipitous for the Shawn Chan, which of course
works the Dark Friend Shawn Chan, where the ravens are
like double you know, a double entendre, right, Like, yeah, yeah,

(39:28):
that's what a double.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
On Hondre is, double meaning anyway.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah, double meaning. But yeah, you know, just stuff like that,
which was really cool to see seeing the back of
a Lighta's dress where they had carefully placed six stones
no blue right deep within the intricacies of her dress
where no one would ever see it. There wasn't even
a shot at the back of the dress in the show, right, Like, yeah,
Sharon Gillian is the name of the person who ran that,

(39:52):
if we didn't say that already. She has a great Instagram.
She was super nice, obviously, you know, care deeply about
creating something that really reflected the fact that Jordan pulled
from a lot of different cultures to create his culture.
And she took that and said, oh, okay, so I
can use anything and create some really intricate, cool costumes
and she did.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
Right, Yeah, yeah, she understood where he was coming from
with the legends fade to myth at an aesthetic level,
Like she got that even though she didn't know all
the plot stuff like that doesn't matter. You understood the
first paragraph and that's all that matters.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
And I never expected everybody who worked on the show
to read the books. For sure, I kind of expect
the writers to read the fucking books. But they didn't
do that either.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
This was a costuming discussion.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
This was a costume discussion. We're not going to go
into the writing.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
And she was really engaged with talking to people about it. Yeah,
Like she wanted to have the back and forth and
was just so willing to talk to people, and it
was so cool.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
I mean, was so willing to talk to people and
was so engaging that I, you know, I brought Chris
to the Cohn my coworker who was like a diehard
doesn't want to watch the show type person, and at
the end of the con he's like, Oh, his costumes
are so good. Maybe I'll watch the show just to
see the costumes. Yeah, that level of like, oh, I'm
that presentation was good enough that it got someone who

(41:13):
was a diehard never watched the show fan to consider
watching the show just on the basis of the costuming, right, Like,
so I think that's an accomplishment, and I think that's
a lot of passion. Yeah, a lot of passion that
she showed. And then I think that was that was
the highlight, which I didn't expect it to be right
that that And of course Kate and Michael reading always. Actually,

(41:34):
Kate's voice is changing for sure.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Yeah, her voice is definitely changing. And then what else
about the con.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
I mean, it was nice to see you in person?

Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, always, we should see each other more often, given
that I live in not Portland and you live in Portland,
right right, we should probably try to see each other
more often than in Ohio.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
I just I don't understand how people maintain social relationships
because I'm doing my best here and man, it's hard,
it's really hard, and I'm not doing a good job,
and it's and then not doing even not doing a
good job is hard, Munce, let's doing a good job
where people are like, I see how much effort never

(42:15):
puts into our friendships and I'm just like, oh my god,
you're so good at that and you do it so naturally.
But I'm sure it's just practice. An effort that I
don't see.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Speaking of effort, it was, say, another fun thing from
the con the costumes that all the people made. Yeah,
the costplay the show tributes the parade at the end,
Like there's a lot of cost because of the costume
person coming this year. I think people really.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
Went hard on the costumes that plus I think the
fact that you have the show as an example, Yeah,
you have a lot.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
Of so many show so many show moraines love you all,
but like, wow, there was a lot of you.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
I feel like from books you get a very vague
description and you, yeah, we all kind of end up
with a similar language, but like, oh, are you trying
to be this version of that character, that version of
this character? Right, there's a little bit of like ambiguity
based on book description. Right, But now that we have
this show template model, we actually have, Oh, you're trying
to look like that character looked on screen, And I

(43:17):
can see that, and I could see the details that
match up in the same way that I feel like
remember people used to do like Ariel Burgess's versions of
the characters because they had a visual that they could
base the costume on and it was immediately recognizable. By
other people. I feel like in the same way that
the costumes really, because they do have the show as
a template and are immediately recognizable, you can then be like,

(43:40):
how close are you to that character? Oh that's a
really good imitation of that, as opposed to oh, we're
what were you going for? You were going for this
example of what you saw in your head, and I'm
not sure how close to that you actually got.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
Yeah. Yeah, there was so much talent. We had a
full blown Queen Morgaze. We had so many moraines. Brian
came not only as re Kappa but also as Paren
with the hawk and the falcon and a hammer, and
it was just like just there's so many costumes.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
So great to talk to Brian again, you know, after
his as traumatic traumatic n injury and sort of withdrawal
from the community, you always worry that, you know, is
that person going to come back?

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Is Rakap has actually been making a comeback on YouTube?

Speaker 2 (44:27):
But Kap is back. Yeah, Caap is back. Brian's back,
Like it's it's so I'm so happy, so so happy
that I got to talk to Brian again and he
was He's back, you know, which is great.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yeah, Yeah, it's super super great. There was also a
lot of energy for the Save Watt campaign, a lot
of different mentions about it, and one of the Moraine
Bodice pieces even had save Wat in the text. Lots
of postcards being handed out, there was still a lot
of energy going towards that. Throughout the con Kowala was

(45:03):
there with her Cards of Time. She continues to just
be indomitable Cards of Time dealer.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
Oh my god, amazing. So I didn't make it last
year because the wedding, And I was telling her, oh, yeah,
you know, I didn't get to get any the Cards
of Time last year, and she goes and stuck me
a whole pack of last year's cards completely. She's so sneaky.
So I have a full pack from last year and
pretty much full back from this year. And yeah, no,
she's she's hilarious and like she comes out all the

(45:31):
way from Australia and she's just the sweetest little old
lady in all the ways that that's stereotype, right, Like
she's just the sweetest little old lady. Yeah, but also
like very energetic and conservation aala conservationist and yeah, fantastic
person and I just, oh man, there's so many people
that I could say that about that showed up, did

(45:52):
a lot, worked really hard.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's really hard to start talking
about one person and then we list every single person
I can remember, knowing full well you're going to forget people,
like that's terrible.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
But I did have fun delusions when I first got
to the con. You know, I walk in and delusions.
We got in at like late Thursday night, early Friday morning.
It was like one am, right like so, they're in
the lobby drinking and she runs up and just you
know it, gives me a big hug. It's like, oh,
I didn't think you were gonna make it, YadA YadA.
And about half an hour later, you know, so we're
talking to somebody, one of the new people at the con,

(46:27):
and he goes, so, so, how long have you two
been married to me? And delusions and how she is
with people. It's like, she's so enthusiastic and happy to
see you that you think she's greeting her husband, right
Like that's that's how just over the top and wonderful
she is.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Delusions, delusions of grand all everyone. She's fantastic.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
So for the rest of the weekend. She was like
my husband, and I was like, yeah, that was pretty funny.
So just there's lots of fun little moments like that
all weekend. Again, you can't list them all.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
No, there was a door decorating contest that had some
very epic entries that got shown at the end.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
I was sitting at dinner with the people who did
the murderal nailed to the door. I thought that one
was pretty good.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Yeah, the door draw amazing.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
And then there was they did the fin and the
twisted red tarangreol.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
It's two different Finn entries in the contest. Just so elaborate,
Just so elaborate. Yeah, just so much talent, so much talent.
Speaking of talent, apparently the deadline for what idol has
been extended.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Of course it has, so it's always extended.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
I had basically given up on being able to do anything,
So now I have reason to beat myself up slightly
more because potentially I could do something. But oh my god,
I haven't started.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Did you like that the potential one I sent to you?

Speaker 1 (47:48):
I mean, I hadn't heard of the songs and I
haven't listened to it yet. You know, I have one
of the songs you sent like a year ago has
made it onto one of my playlists, and now I
feel like I know it well enough that I want
to do the I need to go back and see
see what your parody lyrics frets, because now I know
the song because it's I just put it on a
playlist and have learned it.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
So, yeah, people don't know this, but every I don't
know what is it? Every two months or so, I
kind of I'll send you a song and be like
what about this one? And send you like some of
the lyrics in Wheel of Time form, but it's usually
not very good, and I'll be like, what about this one?

Speaker 1 (48:19):
And then I'm usually like, I'm uncultured and I've never
heard this song before in my life, so it's been.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
A struggle, and I'm getting them from never who's you know,
more on the pulse of pop culture. So she'll play
a song for me and it'll get my rotation and
they'll be like, oh, yeah, this is a song everybody knows.
And then I'll propose it to you and you're like,
not everybody knows this.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
But at least one of them. I liked it so
much that it has now become a song that I know.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Do you know which one?

Speaker 1 (48:43):
It's someone about I met a woman with lips of red?

Speaker 2 (48:48):
Oh okay, Paris Paris Blomo.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that song has definitely made it onto
my regular rotation. See, I got to go look at
what your lyric ideas were for it, because I had
a whole, a whole idea, and then I wrote the
lyrics down and I was like this, this doesn't work.
The entire everything that I wanted that I thought was
going to be cool, I can't make work. M plus

(49:11):
the video and everything would be so suck. And I
told Salia I was going to do this like really
like unhinged video this year, and now I'm gonna be
lucky if I can pull off like a lyric video
at all, Like if I can make an entry, I'm
gonna be so proud of myself. There's not going to
be an unhinged epic video. I'm sorry, sell Yeah, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
All right. So anything else about WACON, I think we've
hit the con crede was was common.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Yeah, I think that's the last thing is the aftermath
is in the walt Con server. Basically everyone who has
bothered to check in has been either sick with something
or definitively sick with COVID. And I am one of
the very few people who has been checking in and
I haven't felt sick, I haven't tested positive. I haven't

(50:01):
felt the slightest bit ill. Somehow everyone else has gotten sick.
I know one person has had to get medical attention.
It's been a whole like creud A plus COVID has
really taken a lot of people down. Then you know,
most of them are back up into work, but it's
been getting passed around households and like it was a
pretty serious spreader event that I somehow missed. I guess

(50:25):
because I'm special or because I just rolled a NAT
twenty on my health check. As one does.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
You get lucky? Yeah, no, I mean you can spend
I certainly. I think I ran a fever for a
day or so, but I didn't let that slow me
down because you know, American capitalism can can't take it
to sick day because I already took a week off,
so and I'm actually taking this day off this next
week because I have a wedding to go to. So yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
Yeah, that's that's basically it for walk Con aside from
I feel like I should say formally I am not
planning on going next year or in future years because
I have a standing event conflict with wat Con and
I would rather do the one that's in my backyard
than the one that involves going to Ohio. So I'm

(51:15):
kind of formally withdrawing from it, not because the con
is anything but awesome, but just because I literally cannot
be in two places at once. So I'm not going
to be the creative track director anymore, and all of
that is going to have to get passed off to
someone else, which is sad, but I don't want to
go to Ohio when all my real life people are

(51:37):
doing a thing that's like an hour down the route.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
Right right, And I was just talking about how hard
it was to maintained local friends, and I'm sort of
at this point where, I mean, going to the con
was nice because I could like see you and Morgan
and a few other local people there as well, but yeah,
it's at this point. It's not I haven't made plans
not to go next year, but it's I haven't made
plans too go, and it's going to take something pretty

(52:02):
extraordinary to get me back out there again next year.
Maybe I might, I might switch you in every other
the year schedule, but man, it's just time off work
and stuff like that has been really hard lately. And
so yeah, I as well and probably will not be
there next year unless something changes.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Yeah, a lot of people who live on the West
Coast or in Washington California we're having serious, drunken conversations
on Sunday about doing a West Coast regional get together
without any serious events, just rent a house by a
stack of pizza hangout. So I, because I can't plan
on going to wat Con, I am probably going to

(52:42):
keep rattling people's cages about that and try to like
get someone else to decide to do the rental and
all of that, because really we just want couch con.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
You know what.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
We won't call it a con a count.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Yeah, yeah, No, con cannot be in the name. It
has to be a hangout. Yeah, it has to be
a hangout. I refuse to put CON in the name.
I'm not taking ownership of it. It's not branded with Waltcon.
But essentially what we need is regionals. We need regional
get togethers, and it's very possible. So definitely, if you
are a West Coast person. There are channels and ways

(53:17):
to be in contact with West Coast people, and maybe
someday there will be a thing where you can come
to a house on the coast and eat pizza and
hang out with a bunch of people who may or
may not have gone to Watcon.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
But I think we really we both hit a point
where traveling across the country is difficult and hard and
a burden, both in terms of taking time away from
our lives and the travel time and the money.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
Yeah, it's it's just it's hard, and Brandon and I
definitely would rather go to an event together than go
and have these events separately.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
That's also yeah, And it's just.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
So fucking expensive. I could literally go to this other
event and spend all the money that I want to
spend and still spend less than I spent on lodging
alone for walt Con.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
Right, It's just And honestly, the plane tickets is what
took me out.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
They were really expensive, and I get those for free
because my grandma is literally a fairy godmother and will
just give me points from her United so that I
can fly out there. And it's even so, even so,
it's still just too freaking expensive. So yeah, I love
the con and I really hope people go, and I

(54:26):
am sad to not go, but also like I can't,
I can't justify it anymore. So this was my last year,
and I went knowing that, and I felt like it
was nice knowing it was my last year and still
being there, like it was very melancholy, but it would
have felt weird to like expect to come back and
then decide not to. This time, I went being like closure,
this is closure.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
And I think you saying it's your last year has
really kind of It's not that it's talked me into
being my last year, but it's like I don't know,
Like I don't know if I want to go back
again for many of the reasons that you were talking about.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
Yeah, yeah, it's a wonderful group of people doing excellent things,
but it's just hard to go to Ohio and there
is a cruise that they have planned, which I have
issues with on a lot of levels. So I will
not be going, but that is a thing. People are
going to continue to find ways to hang out. Obviously,
the two cons Jordan Watcon exist. It's you know, I

(55:18):
encourage people to get together. I know there's lots of
little regional gatherings that do happen. People just know that
they live in a various state and they hang out
like meet up with people, have gatherings. It doesn't have
to be at a convention. You can all just rent
a house and eat pizza. Like that's an option too.
But yeah, I do love that WACON exists, even if

(55:40):
I can't go.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
No, I had a couple of conversations with people too,
because they're saying, you know, we're we're not really sure
what to do about content going forward, right because the
show has ceased. Walt Con was very much a Yes,
it was about the books, but it was also a
show focused medium. I think we're at this point another
inflection point in the wheel of time media landscape, right,

(56:02):
because you had the media that existed before the show
was announced, the media that exists, and then there was
a flurry of activity before the show came out, and
then once the show came out, you had another group
a timeline where people a lot of people fell off,
but a lot of people kept doing content about the show.
And now we're in a post show world. Yeah, and

(56:25):
some of us have been doing content about the books
the whole time. And that's fine, that's not going to change,
right the new reader, hot book ones, the but you know,
something like talk around Riad. I think they have to
figure out what they're doing going forward because there's no
news for them to talk about, and that was a
big portion of their content. You know, tvad similar right, Like,
there are a lot of humor, but a lot of
the humor was based around they had a big news

(56:46):
segment on the show and they were talking about the
show a lot, and.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
So, right series, what does WAT series have to cover
if there's no WAT series?

Speaker 2 (56:56):
Right and so, and a lot of these have been
very popular, you know, and a lot of these people
are the end of walk On and so, you know,
I had one or two people come to me be like,
what are you going to do about content going forward?
We're not really sure what to do. And then my
answer is, well, for now, it doesn't affect me that
much because we were never doing things about the show.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
Yeah. Yeah, our inflection point is on a completely different timeline.
Oh yeah, exactly, for completely different reasons. We have an
inflection point, but it's yeah, not related to this one.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
And at that point we have options and we've talked
about those in the past that we don't need to
go into right now. But yeah, it's just it's going
to be interesting to see what a lot of the
Wheel of Time content does and how the Wheel of
Time community deals with the fact that like we are
at a point like we were after the books finished,
right where, Yeah, you don't expect content to be coming
out anytime soon. So and you've kind of rehashed everything

(57:48):
about the books, what do you do?

Speaker 1 (57:50):
Well, yeah, there is no one answer to that.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
There's no one answer.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
That have to find their own path and it's it's
a scary world out there because you always read to yourself.
But yeah, as a community, what do you do?

Speaker 2 (58:03):
Because I think people thought there would be a lot
of growth with the TV show in terms of the
community size, and there certainly was.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
Yeah, I certainly did, and yeah there was lots of
people have come to the books via the show, right,
That's been a very real phenomena.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
And someone said, you know, there could be a really
boon out there because a lot of people who maybe
not have wanted to read the books now that the
show is done, they're never going to get an end
to their story. So they're going to go back to
the books to find out what happened, right, So we
could get another influx of people coming in. But you know,
you don't know, you don't know what it's going to
be like going forward. You know, are we going to
have a sort of dune light? There's always going to
be people finding the books and reading them for the

(58:38):
first time. Is I think the one thing that.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
You know, Yeah, for sure, for sure.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
But I don't think they're going to be as popular
as they've been in the past. I think we've hit
a point where, like some of the classics, it's going
to sit on the shelf and people are going to
read it.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
It's becoming classic.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
It's becoming classic.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, people will always be making
some kind of community around cosplay and fan fiction and
stuff because it's part of the fantasy canon, right, and
as long as people are playing with the fantasy canon,
like Wheel of Time will have relevance, right. And then yeah,
maybe people in their bitterness about the show cancelation, will
just throw fan art at that wall, and maybe people

(59:19):
will be entertained by that. You never know. There's been
some pretty cool pieces of fan art that have been made,
like in the Reel of Time universe, in the Hunger
Games universe, like it does exist out there, so like
you know, people will continue to find creative outlets for
their love of the books.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
And I was never in fan of an animated version
of the books until they put out Age of Legends
look Back episodes and they were animated, and I thought
they were so good, and then they got canceled because
that's the whole I want thing, right because IWAT is
the company. Sony doesn't have access to the pre real

(59:55):
time main timeline. They don't have access to any the
Age of Legends that's all owned by iwatridiculous whatever. I
do think that maybe someday we could take a shot
at this as an animated series. I could see I
could see it coming back with a little more faithful adaptation,
because you don't have to worry so much about like,
it doesn't cost that much more to animate a big
explosion than it does two people talking.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Right, right, Yeah, for sure, for sure, a lot less
pyrotechnic safety with animated explosions, right yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
And so I just I could I could see them
doing something a little more true to the books in
an animated format. But do I think that's going to
happen anytime soon?

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Now it's I love that save what exists because it's
giving people an outlet for their energy, But I don't
think that we get nice things at this point in
the age of streaming.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
There was a point at the end of it where
you know, we did they did a big save Watt
presentation and at the end of it, Omar got up
and said, you know, do we think this campaign is
going to change the minds of the big execs. No,
we don't like this is this is in some ways
spitting into the wind, right like, we are not going
to change. But it's important that we show that we

(01:01:03):
care about these cancelations. It is important that we show
that this is something we want back, you know, and
everybody you know, we can we can say like, oh,
I would be lovely if Apple TV picked it up,
it would be lovely. But the reality is a lot
of the shows that have gotten picked up or on ABC, CBS,
NBC got canceled and picked up by a streaming service.
It's very rare for a streaming service to pick up

(01:01:25):
a show that was dropped by another streaming service.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
Yeah, but you know, in great ie o fashion, we're
spitting in side blinders very much. We are collectively expressing
our rage in a way that is canon consistent and
feels productive and like that, you know, again, lovely community,
lovely people, like we've been dealt a shitthand but we
are handling it in a way that is beautiful to witness.

(01:02:04):
That's basically everything about our lives and what's been happening
over the course of the last book. We could take
some time to talk about what actually happened in the book,
our first Sanderson book, and.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Sure, yeah, yeah, I think that's it's a This book
is very Agwayne and rand focused in a way more
so than I think I remember in the past. But
I think that's why the Gathering Storm and then what's
the next book.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
The next book, towersan Midnight Twers of Midnight.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Are very much happening at the same time. Is something
I don't think I realized.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
I mean, I.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Knew that that there was overlapping timelines, but how much
like those two books are really happening at the same time.
And then you go into Memory of Light, which is
the last battle, but so much we didn't get to see.
We saw half the story in this book.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Yeah, yeah, I agree it was Knowing it intellectually is
one thing, but actually processing it in the podcast timeline
kind of sense, it's like, oh, yeah, we really are
going to be retreading the same timeline with entirely new
characters next book. That is not in a weird Winter's
Heart way, but in a like there's literally too many
characters kind of way.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
And I get why he had to do that in
simply like, if I include all the characters, I can
only get halfway through their plot and will have another,
you know, slog like book where we don't get any
conclusions to the plots that I'm that I'm setting up.
And so you really have to stick with Rand to
get Rand to Veins of Gold, right, and you have
to stick with them to that whole journey. And he

(01:03:36):
could do Rand in a gwayn but he couldn't also
do Paren. He couldn't also do Matt. He couldn't you know,
he couldn't do the rescue of more Gaze. He couldn't
do the unification of the White Cloaks with Paren and
him discovery and the battle against Slayer, right, like all
those things that are really complicated he really just had
to split them into and I get why he did

(01:03:57):
that now, and I get I kind of sort of
of seeing how he did it in this book, I
understand why. But Sanderson writes in a very different style
than Jordan, right, I guess the other thing we really
came to realize when writing these when reading these books,
the fine detail that Jordan puts in there that is
just layer upon layer upon layer, where every word feels

(01:04:19):
like he's making a four D chess move that's doing
at least two different things when he makes that move,
if not three or four at a time. And I
know people are like, but how there's so many words
and so much of it's filler. How it's I think
podcasting has made me realize how little philler Robert Jordan
actually put in. Yes, it may look like piller, because
like my god, it's about minor characters, but so many

(01:04:41):
of the lines he puts in matter in the context
and tell you what that minor character thinks or is doing,
and that may or may not affect the main plot,
but in a lot of cases it does, right, you know,
or at least in terms of like he's he's justifying
the votes in the hall with all of these background
lines and background characters, and like it's really really good Sanderson,

(01:05:02):
he's just gonna tell you who votes and why they
vote that way.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
Yeah, it's it's it was subconsciously obvious, but podcasting just
makes it impossible to not see exactly where the level
of detail has just like it's at a much lower fidelity.
There's the whole thing is at a much lower fidelity.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
If I was reading these books, I would have to
describe Jordan as digital and Sanderson is analog, right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
Oh the way around?

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
M I suppose yes, definitely, yeah, definitely right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
Yeah, sorry, Jordan is the full analog.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
Yeah, Jordan is analog, right because you yeah, you're right,
because you can there's a lot of detail in there.
There's some noise, right if you zoom in too much.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
Yeah, it's because it's everything.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
There's a lot of noise because everything, everything's in there.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
But yeah, Sanderson is digitized. There's stuff just missing, it's
just smoothed out and blocked over.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Then when you get down to the resolution at which
he's digitized the information and there's no more information to
gain because it's just oh, this is a one that's
zero Yeah. And the analogy that's more about their general
writing style is Jordan's a gardener and Sanderson is an architect. Right,
So you walk into Jordan's garden, you're gonna see, yes, structure,
but it's the plants are growing themselves in a lot

(01:06:17):
of ways. Whereas Sanderson, you know, every line is defined,
but then there's a lot less detail in the structure. Right,
that's a wall. It's not necessarily a wall with a
lot of detail and flowers growing through it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
Right, It's not a living wall. It's a brick wall. Yeah,
which I mean is like totally valid styles. Like, it's
not a critique, it's just an observation. And the transition book,
this transition for us has definitely been different, seeing how
it makes sense to bundle chapters together in a much
different way. It felt like we like we obviously didn't
speed run the book. It still took us the average
nine months that it always takes, but it felt more

(01:06:52):
like a speed run because there were more chapters to
pack into a given episode of content. Because that really worked.
We did a lot of bumblings and they did not
take an excessive amount of time.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
I don't know, and what I'll say with Sanderson is
as I read his chapters, I can see in a plot,
a B plot, a sea plot, right, and I can
see how he's interacting with those, and like, it's very
obvious in a plot, B plot, C plot, you know
what those three plots are. You don't really have to
think that much harder, Right, He's because he writes in
this very Jordan. He always included a few things in
there that made me go, I don't really know why

(01:07:24):
that's in there. Wait, and then twenty chapters later you're like, oh,
because he was making a reference to something that was
going to happen much later on, or something that happened earlier,
or you know, oh, those two characters are the same character,
even though the description is slightly different because you're seeing
it from them described by two different povs. It's close
enough that you can make that link and then see
how those characters, how what's happening over here is affecting

(01:07:47):
what the character's saying over there. But he's not going
to tell you those are the same characters. You have
to make that connection on your own. Connect those two scenes,
connect those two statements, and for me as a podcaster,
that's more interesting than being told, yeah, oh yeah, this
character doesn't care because of what he the interaction that happened,
you know, three months ago. And Sanderson, in a lot
of ways, is always going to be easier to read

(01:08:09):
because he's always going to tell you those things up front,
and so in that way, he's he's a lighter read.
And don't get me wrong, I love his cosmo stuff
because it is just entertaining, right, it's light fluff. It's entertaining.
He's got a very good world built, but it is
shallow in a way that Jordan isn't. And it doesn't

(01:08:30):
make it an inferior product, but it does make it
harder to podcast about.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
Yeah, I think that's where we do have a professional
like actual value judgment is like, it is not quite
as much fun to podcast through. It's fun to talk
about the books with my friends. I do enjoy that,
but there's a lot less of like academic level digging
into it to be done, which is fine. It's you know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Whatever, Yeah, and I enjoy the characters and.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
We're in the conclusion of the books, so like it.
If there was ever a time for a Sander Lancy approach,
it is the end of these series.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
Right, And I do have to wonder, how you know,
how much would Jordan have ever finished the series? Is
one of those questions that I always have to ask myself, right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
Like sure, so fair, so fair?

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
And he was always a couple more books, always one
more book, you know, And even if you said one
more book is obviously you can't do what he needed
to do in one more book, right, he would have
had the right at least the three. Those three would
have bloomed out because they need to a little bit.
You and I both agree they could be longer. Yeah,
So is there a point would this have been a

(01:09:37):
twenty book series if Jordan had been the one writing
it would have ever gotten finished? I don't know. I
think we have a lot to thanks Anderson for in
terms of finishing the books, writing a solid conclusion, making
some decisions that are limiting. Right. We don't get some
characters at the end, we don't get some conclusions we

(01:09:59):
care about, but we have an ending. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
And again, as I've said repeatedly about this book, this
is Sanderson's first of the three, so it is the
weakest of the three, and I think we will have
a little bit more fun with his style as he
gets a little more comfortable with what he's doing in
book two, and also working with a character that he
has unlimited flexibility with Paren will give I hope more

(01:10:23):
fun for us to play with because we'll be more
in a space that Sanderson is comfortable writing in. I hope.

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
M Yeah. I think the one thing I just don't
get as much with Sanderson is the oh my god,
I can't believe I never realized that moments because he
just tells you straight out on the page what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
So that won't change.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
That won't change. But I do think there's a lot
of fun and I certainly we had a lot of
fun with the second half of this book, right.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
As he got more comfortable.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
Yeah, and I think, you know, the sander Lanche is
a thing, right, this avalanche of stuff that happens at
the end of his books the first half. And he's
gotten a little bit better about that as he's continued
to write, like he's able to spread out his fun
stuff a little bit more over the books. But like these,
these were some of his earlier books, and so there
is just heavy sander Lanche at the end. Same thing

(01:11:13):
with with with Paren at the end of the next book,
Parent and Matt right, Like, I mean, we get to
Tower Genji and you know, just incredible. There's a lot,
there's a lot happening at the end of the book,
and Paren, you know, doing his his super cool teleporting thing.
That's that's the end of this book.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
Right, Yeah, because then he sees veins of gold at
the end.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
That's right at the end. Right, So those are both
like really cool moments for those characters. But again, I
expect there to be some sander Lanche in this next book.
I expect the first few chapters to be a little
hard to get through, as he sets things up and
as we do a lot of recapping and that sort
of thing, and then I expect the second half of
the book to be very exciting and very action filled.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
I wonder if that means that our expectations for the
prologue needing three parts are misplaced. Probably not. It's a
pretty key prologue. Prologues are cool.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
Prologs are usually cool.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
Verry, he was very Jordanian and his prologue.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
Has Yes, yes, I would say he put more effort
into the prologues than almost any other chapter except the ending.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
Which honestly works For me as a reader, if the
prologue slaps, I will slog through so much bullshit to
get to the end of the book where it all
comes together. If the prologue really hooks me like, I
will put up with a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
A good prologue asks you the question, you know, do
you want to find out the answer to this mystery?

Speaker 3 (01:12:31):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:12:33):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
And I think that's why I really like the prolog
to the Heigh of the World, even though so many
people find it off putting. Is it's like and that's why,
And it got me into the books in a way
I don't think a normal prologue in the Two Rivers
the Raven's prologue did is because I wanted to know,
who are the rods nine Rods of Dominion? What's this?
You know? Give me more information about all the hints
and shit that you dropped in this first chapter. And

(01:12:55):
then sure it dropped me into the Two Rivers, where
everything's very common, very medieval sci fi fantasy world that
I can be very familiar with. Great love it, but
I still have all those questions. Right, three thousand years earlier,
something happened and now it's affecting the world and I
think that's a really cool hook, and I think it's
one Sanderson stole for his own books, right, Like, if
you read the prologue of the Stormline Archive, there's this

(01:13:18):
like it's fifty thousand years, right, He's going even further
back as we kind of understand the depth of what
time is. Three thousand years is like nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
I mean, depends on what you're measuring with. But yeah, no, totally,
And I think I'm nodding. I think that the prologue,
the uniqueness of the prologue, and then the drop into
normalcy definitely as part of what hooked me when I
first started. I guess I would have read the book
either way, but would I have been so intrigued to

(01:13:47):
see that connective tissue for book two, three, four five,
Like that prologue, you're just like, but so so many
gaps to fill in between the prologue and whatever's happen here.

Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
And then when we went back to the prologue we
filled in a lot of those gays. We're like, Oh,
he's using the true power, and that's something you don't
really understand until book like eight. You know, like it's
it's incredible how much of that prologue is in the
rest of the books, and that DNA. You know, the
fact that Lewis Theren says there's nobody around, And it
took us much much later to realize, Oh, that's the

(01:14:21):
Dragon being alone with the land. That's not any one
power thing. That's just his ability to sense people. But
it works in canon, and it's so well done, and yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
Yeah, I mean, and the way you get to the
end and you read it and you're like, this feels
like nineteen ninety Jordan. There's this piece at the end
that's just like, it feels like nineteen ninety Jordan. This
is I of the World Jordan.

Speaker 2 (01:14:43):
You mean, like last Battle, Rand in the Dark One.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
Stuff, the literal end of the of the books, like
the actual ending, also the Rand of the Dark One stuff.
But like, just as you get to that final conclusion,
you're like, he wrote so much of this, yeah, at
the beginning, and has been writing towards it the whole time.
The slog the extra books, all the side quests, all

(01:15:07):
the everything that he didn't anticipate, all of it was
still bent towards this thing that he knew he had
already written. It's just mind blowing and the prologue. He
wrote that as part of all the same thing. You
could feel it in the prolog, and you can feel
it at the literal very end, and like then, I
mean I heard a rumor somewhere that he wanted the
prolog to be a titled epilogue originally, and like, yeah,

(01:15:31):
you kind of loop back around and it feels like
the same person talking to you at the beginning and
the end. Like he just so meta, so meta. I
love his brain.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
So yeah, I'm really looking forward to the next two
books because I think that we are. I mean, I'm
just I'm excited to finish the series. I don't know,
like I can't. I'm getting that anticipation of like, oh
my god, we're actually gonna finish the series as a podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
Yeah, I'm really excited to do Tower of Genji. I
feel like Gee is one of the most like we've
been waiting for this and we knew how it was
going to go, and it slaps so hard even though
you know what's going to happen, because the Finn are
the way they are, and like, I'm looking forward to
I've really enjoyed the action sequences as we've gone through

(01:16:17):
this podcast. This book, I've like the big battle scenes.
It's been really really fun. So I'm really looking forward
to doing Tower of Genji as a podcast conversation. Yeah,
it's it's good times. I'm enjoying the process. Even though
the Sanderson of it all is a thing, it's it's working,
it's still fun. I'm still having a good time talking

(01:16:39):
with you and our audience about these books. And yeah,
glad to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
No, and for me, because I didn't I don't feel
like I know the last three books as well as
the rest of the series. This has been a really
nice way to feel like I'm getting to know those
books intimately in a way that I feel like I
never had before and have been struggling with. So for
the first time, I'm like, oh, yeah, okay, no, I
get what's going on in these books, and I gets
what's happening. You know, teaching is how you learn, right,

(01:17:08):
and like we're teaching each other about these books every
day that we have podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:17:11):
Yeah, it's a really good point that, like, yeah, I
have struggled so hard to internalize these last three books,
like I'm not going to listen to them twelve times
in isolation of the rest of the series, right, Like
that wouldn't really make sense, and it's just like, how
do I learn them as well as I know the others?
Podcasting through them? Podcasting through them is the cheat code

(01:17:32):
to that. So yeah, I'm like that you're doing this.

Speaker 2 (01:17:36):
I think that's a great way to segue into podcasting
and through them. When we come back next week.

Speaker 1 (01:17:40):
Yes, yes, when we come back, we will be starting prologue,
part one of three, probably four Towers of Midnight, So
make sure to stay tuned for that and check out
my other podcasts because I'm doing other podcasts. Used to
sow with a number two to make it really funny,
and then autistic stuff for autistic people with no puns,

(01:18:01):
no numerals, just literally the words.

Speaker 2 (01:18:04):
Stay healthy, stay wet. See you next time, and we'll
probably do Patreons at the beginning of the.

Speaker 1 (01:18:10):
Next Patreons next week. We'll start start next week with
patre told me bye for real.

Speaker 3 (01:18:15):
Bye.

Speaker 1 (01:19:00):
Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
Please rate and review us on your podcast app and
consider supporting us on Patreon for ad free episodes. Watt
Spoilers is a production of Fox and Raven Media for
more podcasts from Fox and Raven Media, Visit our website
at foxendravenmedia dot com.

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The Gathering Tangent - EP543

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Gathering Tangent - EP543