💥 "Ahmed Johnson Shoot Unleashed: WWF's Forgotten Powerhouse Speaks Out!"

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Okay, we're here today with Amed Johnson. Hello Almond, how
are you brother? We're gonna start off with if you
could tell us where you grew up a little bit
of your home life.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Ah well, I grew up in Indiana, Cocomo and between
that and Florida, back and forth, you know, between the
two and home life wasn't the best. I mean, I
don't know if you guys read the article you know before,
but I mean home life was was very abusive, very
abusive father and it was also it really was a

(01:05):
living town. What it was?

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Wh what where was this part of the country both, Uh,
you were.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
From Indiana and a Florida?

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah? Brothers and sisters or oh.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, I got eight brothers and sisters. Or I had
eight brother sisters. Yeah. And now, as you know, I know,
I joined the Blood you know, at age thirteen and
went on from there, joined the military, played football and
wf Can you tell.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Us a little bit about the military you joined?

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah, I I was, uh my fint, that's one of
my highlight moments of my life. I I graduated mostly
Sting undergraduate out of two thousand soldiers, which is number one,
top of the class. And it was a bittersweet moment
at time, cause I graduated Monster Stingle undergraduate and hear
these other guys are going to get their awards, you know,
and they have family there and here I am at
the end of the ceremony. I didn't even know I

(01:56):
was mostly Sting undergraduate, but in the ceremony they uh
gets up and now now so much a Stinger undergraduate
and it was me my great top of my class
and academics and then you know the PT and navigations
and everything.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
What sports did you play in the young years?

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Oh god, I was, man. What I didn't play? High
school track? Football, basketball, wrestling team and weight different team.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Were you a wrestling fan growing up or.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, yeah I was. I forgot the name of the federation.
Well I know it was Dick the Bruiser and Crusher
and all them back when I was a kid. And
then I got the when I moved to Houston. Uh
got tied in with Mid South and people don't know
where he's ice foot the floors in Mid South Coliseum
as a kid, I was one footing the floors after
the matches.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Oh really, yeah, what year was that?

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Oh my god, I would say middle I want to
say eighties, around middle eighties ninety something, right now.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Any what guys did you just were you a big
fan of back then.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
That I was a big fan of mad Dog Bus Sawyer.
I thought he was the best. I don't know why.
I just loved this attitude him a Rick Steiner at
the time.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah, I guess it's rounde eighty six.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, they were. They were tag team partners. I I mean,
I love mad Dog Bus Sawyer.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Okay, who what made you decide to get into wrestling?

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Had that?

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Had that happened? Well?

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Actually, me, Steve Ray and Booker t all did it together.
We all went to a school in Houston. Ian Pusley
was teaching him and Joe Blancher and we all got involved.
We all went at the same time, decided to join,
and we all joined at the same time.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
Me, Stephen, Booker was Scott Casey was the trainer.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Scott was there. Yes, Scott Casey was one of the
guys there. I was training.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
I was training. How did you take to it?

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Oh? It was it was brutal. I'm I mean iven,
it was brutal. He he worked as a big time
and all the sports I ever did, including pro football,
that's the most intense far the workouts.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Go mm hm and uh. I guess this was around
early nineties. Yeah, okay, And did you start working in
DS around then? What what year was your first match?

Speaker 2 (04:17):
I don't remember what year it was, but yeah, we
start doing a little indie show. I'm husky, start running
a little indie shows. Matter of fact, he went back
into the coliseum in Houston try to redo Midge Soil,
but it didn't work out. Got somebody between Ham and
the staff. Somebody was taking the money.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
So what with some of your your gimmicks or character's name?

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Back then, Night Breeder MODEVE had an internet the Black Superman.
I don't know where that came, but it was a
Night Breeder modeve. Both are basically too that I used
earlier their career.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
And I guess tell your first break as far as
you know, getting out there and more of a national scale,
I guess was Global? It was when first with that
was shown around around the world.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, I would say Global. M And the was Thomas
spent in Japan.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
How'd you get into Global? How that.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
They had got a tape Stevie something a tape of
us and they just called they called me and I
got I send him a tape from Japan and send
it to Steve and need him them and they wanted
to come down here and work. So I came back
to the States and worked. What was your character Modeeve?

Speaker 1 (05:26):
What is that exactly? What was the character?

Speaker 2 (05:28):
The new being Terror? And I Skinner Egbar was my manager?
Mm hm you know so that was that? Was that
a global? How long were you there for a man?
I would say about two years?

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Two years?

Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (05:43):
And uh, who did you? Who are some of the
guys you worked with?

Speaker 2 (05:46):
H free Birds, Michael Hayes, Bam Bam, Chris Adams, Bradshaw
We had a real good match. Who else? Quite a
few people I can't remember about ice drinking Parsons. I
don't know if you know Action Jackson, yep.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Although you were a heel, I guess I was.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
Kind of like if I my appearance was a hell,
but the fans liked me for some reason. I mean
I came out as a hill. Yeah, but the fans
they wouldn't accept me as hell, you know they and
they didn't accept it. I don't know why.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Who'd you like working with the most down there?

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Who? Who you faund there?

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, who you learned the most from.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
I would say Murdock. Dick Murdoch worn on my line
a lot from Dick Murdoch, and Paul Warrendorff came through,
and Johnny Valentine, the old time old Johnny Valentine taught
me a little bit.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Uh. Did you have any heat with anybody down there
or was that some of the bitter years.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
No, I didn't have any I'm kind of like I
just kept you know, no I am. I was just
quiet and I'm trying to keep myself. I don't involved
all that crazy business going on.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
How did you uh uh? What contact did you have
with the WW that got you there?

Speaker 2 (07:09):
Huh? Michael Hayes actually got me in W I rush
agains Michael, Well, what happened was I walk into the
ring and some guy came up. Well, I thought somebody
hit me in my back, and I thought wonder boys
playing a haja. And I turned around and some biker,
I'm tattooed up biker and I turned around and just

(07:30):
laid one on him and I'm either hear a jaw
cracking them all the way and it's so funny. Guy,
he just went straight back and it half flew one
way and I turned around going back to the ring,
and Michael Hayes and Bambama was on their knees laughing.
We just got it, just got his face cracked and
we had a real good match, me Michael and Bambama.
And it was from there and Michael told me, Man,
I'm gonna get you in WF cause I'm going up there.

(07:51):
I get you up there, and he did it, kept.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
The work and that was nineteen ninety six, five five,
I think. And uh so, what was your first impressions
when he went there? Who'd you meet with.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
When I went there? Uh? Bill was wast was up
there and was in w w E. Bill Wats was
up there when I got up there, and he was,
I guess, helping events run things. And I was very
impressed when I got there, extremely impressed.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
They seemed to to uh push you right from the start,
Like what did did Vince talk to you about? You
know that they they were gonna push you this hard
right off the bat. Well.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
He said that he seen the tape and he doesn't,
you know, look at all the tape, but he see
that tonic of mind and he was very impressed with intensity.
He's he's never seen intensity like I had. And yeah,
and then they gave me a push it and we
had that. I did a few dart matches for him,
and I mean, people didn't know who I was, and
they was going crazy after I was doing my moves

(08:56):
and you know, I used to like dive over the
top ro open door that the little man stuff, you know,
for a three hundred and thirty pound guy doing it.
They thought it was pretty impressive.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
And what what did they said? The Ama Johnson character
was gonna be about was just gonna be a uh.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
They never gave me an outline at all. The space
They said, you're Ahmed Johnson and you know, and went
to costume. They sued me it for what they thought was,
you know, a good costume and he never really gave
me in that line of what the character was about
or anything, which I never understood because I'm AD as
a Muslim naming and m I couldn't forego what they

(09:30):
were going with it either. I think I think that
if you if you remember, they started the Nation, and
I think that's where the head was going with the
cause the Nation as a Muslim group supposedly, and AMD
would have fitted right in that you know what I'm saying,
And I think that's where it is. I'm not sure,

(09:51):
but I think it's where they were headed. But then
he found out I was better as an individual, you know,
so with a group.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
And and the just and I a face at that
point the pushing event, what were you probably, Well, you
promise anything from the beginning or well, I I.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
Don't you know, no, not really. And everything I was
promised he delivered on. I must be honest. Everything I
was promised from Vince McMahon, he delivered on everything he
promised me.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
What were some of the first guys you work with?

Speaker 2 (10:23):
Again? Started with against My first match on televis was
against Yokozuna when I slammed Yoko. That was the first one.
I Yoko, me and Sean was doing stuff together, working
in sav yoga. It's about everybody that was healed right
at the beginning.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
What we thoughts on Yokazuna.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
We didn't get it on it first.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
It was a lot of jealousy in the locker room
at first because the way he brung me in, you know,
with the portion. Then I did deliver mm, you know,
and I Yoko was one of 'em. That was I
guess intimidated the jealous and we all came to blow it.
I guess you thought I was gonna be intimidated by
one time we had a tag team match. It was
me and Yoko against David Owen, and you know David

(11:12):
Owen and just ha ha, especially if not TV, they
gonna play jokes the whole match. And I guess we
got back in the locker room and Yoko started cussing
and going off about you know, us doing hot has
in the match, and I got up and walked up
to him and I basically got in bright in his
face and I was like, man, look you got a
problem me. You wanna get on, Let's get it on
right now, locker room And he didn't wanna fight, and

(11:36):
we we settled up from there and then we became
real good friends from that point.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Okay, I guess you were the second guy that they had.
I guess that was the way to give you the
big push right off the bat by body slamming. Yok
was in Yeah, and uh, I think Luga did it
for you, right And uh, I mean at that time
they must have said to you, like, you know, we're
gonna push your right off the bat to the top
or or towards the top and body slamming yolk cause

(12:02):
then it was big.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
You know, I didn't really how big it was though,
I mean, I didn't realize how big it was. So
it was done. But no, they never they never came
to me about a push. It was just I'm just
going with the flow, and uh, how was it working
with Owen Heart. M Oh, my god, man at on
Heart kept morale up. I mean, on Heart is the

(12:27):
best man for I mean, I usually, I swear to god,
I used to love to come to work. Just got
his own was gonna be there, and you know he
was gonna be doing something crazy like my When I
first got there, I would say, my like, fourth dark match.
I'm sitting in the ring and I'm getting off with
this guy. I mean, this guy, I mean, wouldn't having
a hell of a match. Fans were screaming, and I'm
doing the stuff for the top row from the third

(12:48):
rope and all kinds of stuff, and my music came
on halfway during the match, and I was like, I
didn't know. I said, oh, they're telling me to take
it home cause they don't like to match or something.
So I told the guy, you know, i'm'na shoot you in
clothesline and give you the pro river and the opinion.
So I did. And when we got out the ring
and walked back to the curtain, Michael Tana was the
agent time boy. He was red. He was cussing and

(13:11):
going on who in that? Turned that from music on
who's trying to he was gonna And then you look
at them Booth, Who's coming out the sound booth owing
and Davy and then Michael Toner was like, I'm calling
this right now. You just effed up a good match.
I'm calling this and then they started blaming Joel owing
I didn't do it, David did it, and Davy, I
didn't do it on you did it. And then it was
just back and where it was funny man, not just

(13:31):
their character. That was just the character. And then he
put another girl. I hollered me my first WrestleMania. You know, everybody,
the fan hype is good, and they and everybody going
on talk shows and doing things. I'm in my room
with my brother and them and the far Rings and
it's David Leno show. So I'm talking to them and
give them information they need and they, uh, I was

(13:51):
gonna be on the next day. So I went out
and I spent my four thousand dollars on a suit
and some shoes and some chain and nice chain, I'm sorry,
a nice shane and everything. And I get dressed up,
and I mean, I mean four thousand, I'm I'm decked out.
I mean I'm pimped up from head to toe. So
then I go outside. You know, the limo is supposed

(14:11):
to be there eight o'clock. So I go outside waiting
for the limo. And then when Davy comes out, and
you know, I can wind so dressed up, and I
told me no, I had Jaylembo show, and they got
pissed off. They were like, man, we been here for
some some years and you got Jay Lendl show, and
you know, we hadn't even get us talk show yet
or anything. And I'm like, well, that's just the way
the ball bounces sometime. So I'm sitting out there, man,

(14:32):
my new clothes, on my new watch, my new jersey,
and eight o'clock hits no limo, and then Owen looks
at me and says, ain't your limit? PU up here
at eight o'clock, And so I I was like, yeah.
Then I thought, how on the hell did you know
my limo was coming to eight o'clock? What it was
was owing them who called me and told me they
were Jay Linda, and I was dressed up. I got

(14:56):
all dressed up with when out side nothing to hear
him and Davy hit the floor man laughing, and Wreck
came out. He had the the felling the bushes. He
laughing so hard. But they got me.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
Good man, that's gonna do you have another own star
anything that's uh an.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
You can be a Orange store with all day or dead.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
I mean, give us another real good one.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Well, I know if you guys remember it when we
did the arm wrestling competition, me and a bulldog, and
I had to meet my what what's gonna be my
wife's parents that night in Chicago at the stadium, and
so I knew that something was up. I said, these
two together coming against me, they got something playing. I
know they got something playing. And so they get to

(15:35):
the ring with you did arm wrestler and Davy and them,
they took a stink bomb and smashed it in his hand,
so it smells like dogs shit coming all the way
up to the ring. And then when we lock up
our hand and it's I mean, it's the stinkiest smell,
your smell slank, pure dog do do and so oh
my godh my god, it's lie TV. So I can't
pull out from the armrest of contest, and they just

(15:56):
laughing as though. And then had to go be mine
sooner be going. What's gonna be my wife's parents? And
I mean I smelled like pure dog shit and the
first time meeting a mom, like, I don't know what
they're gonna say about right now, but I said, I
mean on the deview, man, they just sound like god putting.
They go in your room, they would gotta keep your
hotel room and gave from the front death and they

(16:19):
would go in there and shitt in your toilet and
leave it. And you come home and cut the heater on,
and when you come in the room, your room is
just stinking hind hair. And then that j just well
black Brett said. Brett told me one day, he said, look, man,
he said, one doesn't rid people he don't like. He said,
he's real mused cause she really likes you. And he
was just a uh, he was just a good dude, man.

(16:39):
I mean, I know people say that about all the
time he had. They said, Jeffrey Dahmer is a good dude,
you know, but onw heart was really genuine.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
Had you t had you? Uh? How did you take
it when you've heard that he passed away?

Speaker 2 (16:51):
M Uh? I I was devastated, devastated. Uh, I couldn't
believe it. I mean, and I ever God feemers stand
there about everybody could have passed away, and I wouldn't
have cared. The one that I really cared about, that
that that killed me, that killed me.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Do you think they should have went on with the
pay per view that night? Inter opinion?

Speaker 2 (17:14):
In my opinion, I mean if I was run the show, No,
I wouldn't have. I wouldn't have been how you were right,
I I I wouldn't have. Even if it was I
wasn't close to him and I was running the show,
I wouldn't it went on with it. I mean, I
think the fans would understood. But I mean, but you
gotta understand Ben's it's just Vince didn't get where he
was by being normal. I mean, he's always pushed the

(17:35):
envelope and and that's what makes you know that the
show so good?

Speaker 1 (17:39):
Mm? Well, were some Uh how did you feel loss
about Bulldog?

Speaker 2 (17:43):
I guess one, yeah, I I I was sad about
Bulldog too. And I really said about the way he
went out, you know, I mean we all knew that.
You know a lot of boys have drug problems, you know,
and then Bulldog, I mean taking that extreme. I didn't
know he was that bad all. Yeah, that that hurt, alright.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
I guess so going into the uh the angle where
you uh win the Intercontinental Belt from gold dust, Uh,
I guess take us through that angle that kind of
got you to the match. I know it was uh,
I think on TV on TV he ended up uh
getting your mouth to mouth.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, and that wasn't uh. That wasn't uh. When you
seen him covering up when I was after he mouth mouth,
I was punching through the ropes trying to hit him
and he was covering up. That was real because I
told him when we practiced it, you know, we rehearsed it,
and I told him to take his hand and put
over my mouth like a fans can't see it. Just
put your hand over them mouth and do your hand,
you know, put my mouth to your hand. And of

(18:46):
course wouldn't lie a TV hit. He thought it was
gonna be funny to put his lips on my lips,
and I didn't think that was very funny. So the
last few moments when you see him not fighting back,
it was a reason for that. M M.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
Did you did you get along with Dustin?

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, we got loan. You know, fine up until you know,
I mean, it's that that moment. Didn't appreciate that that moment,
you know.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah, and then you went into the match and you
became the Intercontinental champion. How'd you yeah, how'd you feel
about that?

Speaker 2 (19:18):
I was? It was it was great man, especially you
know in the way that it was in Milwaukee, and
you know, it was the best way to the fans
responding everybody's finding it was great, you know. But I
had no idea the extent of you know, being the
first Alfric American champion. I didn't unestimated it estimated.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
How'd you feel the match went?

Speaker 2 (19:39):
It was okay, it was pretty good. I was. I
think I was a little in tense. I think I was,
you know, Dino the top rope and on top of him.
If mart Lena didn't know what was going to his
wife and her name Marlena.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
Uh well, that's a character, her character name that.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
She didn't realize what was going on. She really thought
I was pissed and trying to hurt him for real.
When I through the stird, she freaked out. She was
seriously pissed about it. You know. He had to actually
tell her to get back, get back. She was walking up,
you know, on like she was gonna try to top
the matches something. She was really pissed. But we had,
you know, talked it over, and we did everything we

(20:15):
said we were gonna do.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
Mh, you said, Owen and Bulldog you were tight with
at that time. Some of the other guys you were real,
really good friends.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
With, except uh taker see it for Rooke. After a while,
we wouldn't that kind of hers. That's just about all
the people are really vade her. That's about all I

(20:43):
associated with.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
So after the uh you won the Intercontinental Belt, Uh
you would uh there was a story that I think
you told me uh that uh uh Steve Austin you
you feel that he did something, uh that you think
he did to you after you won the Icy Belt.
If you wanna tell this story.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
Oh, well, somebody wrote on my rental.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
Car this was after you on the belt.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah, it was like the next few matches after on
the belt, somebody wrote on my rental car congratulations nigger,
and I don't know who did it. And a fan
said that they saw stone coat out there by my car.
So I don't know if he did it or not.
But I mean, after what I read about him and

(21:27):
seen him in that longest yard, I would say, yeah
much that he was the one who did it.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
How was your relationship to him before?

Speaker 2 (21:34):
And I ain't. I mean I've always felt he was
a little racist prage. I never really, I didn't. I
didn't sellciate with him. Wasn't a friend of mine.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Is it just a backstage you heard him talking to
other people or is it just a vibe you got
from a guy?

Speaker 2 (21:51):
No, if I heard him say the end word back stage,
I ought to beat his fucking ass. You didn't say
this shit around me? But no, I just just a vibe,
just you know, Uh, I haven't. Then I read that
stuff that uh his wife talked about, you know, him
being the N word all the time and not wanting
her to watch black people on TV and all that crap.

(22:11):
M you know, so that pretty much sell it for me.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
If you if you found proof that he did it.
I I guess you would'a confronted him at that point.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
I would have killed him. I woulda beat him senseless.
I woulda beat him sensive.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
Alright, what where are some other what other kinds of
uh things did you run into? As far as people
being jealous of your quick rise? I mean, do you
think it was also racism that Austin did that? U?
And also maybe a lot of at that point he
wasn't uh, he was kind of starting to get his
rise that maybe he felt, you know, why are you
getting it right off the bat?

Speaker 2 (22:45):
No? I h I W A racist? Are racist?

Speaker 1 (22:48):
Man?

Speaker 2 (22:49):
I mean you don't just becoming that overnight, not something
If you erasist, you're erasist from day one. And so no,
I he if he he he just a racist. That's
just the way it is. And you know, and it's
sad because you know, you get all these littles, these
little black kids with often three sixteen T shirts on,
and they're supporting and not knowing who this pump really is.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
Mm So now anybody else uh kind of were jealous
of You're right?

Speaker 2 (23:16):
Saw Michael's one time came in one time and before
he became the Kshamacher's Now I'm in respect where he
is now. I mean, I'm I'm really glad that he
found the Lord and he is the Christian he is.
But I mean when I first got there, when he
wasn't a Christian, he called me off one time, so
I never understood it, and he said, I, man, he's like,
I gotta ask you to stop doing all the high

(23:38):
flying moves, you know, din on the top rope and
jumping off the rope. And I was like why. He said, well,
you're you know, a big manyor three hundred and thirty pounds,
He said, When you do it and then I go
out there and do it, it doesn't it's not as important
anymore cause you just did it three hundred thirty pounds,
you said, so you got to do more big man moves.
And didn't know when he told me that, I I

(23:59):
I I mean, I didn't know if that was his
part of the business, if you was, you know, jealous,
or what the deal was. But I backed off a
little bit and stopped doing a lot of the high
flying stuff I was doing, which I was very disappointed
about because I feel like that made me fall off
a little bit because I loved diving old the ropes
and doing crazy stuff. And I backed off for because

(24:19):
he asked me to. And at the time he was
the man at the w Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Uh, that was pretty much it. Other other than that,
as far as.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah, probably that, I can't really think of anybody had
any problems, not that I know of.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
Uh, what was I guess the whole story about uh
uh your your feud with uh feruk and where at
one point, I guess in the match he kicked you.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah, now that we think, I think that was done
on purpose because I mean.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
Well, I'll just interrupt you for a second. We saw
around some intead of convention about two years ago. Year
and a half ago, someone brought up that question to
him in the Q and A and uh he said
that you were stiff and it was a receipt for
you to start to calm down.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
I never rastled him until that. That the first time
we ever met each other, so I didn't understand, like
I couldn't get that. I mean, that's the first time
we ever met each other. I think that was more
of the fact that he was jealous because he was
the first black I guess w W champion something and
I was the first black in w F and I
think he thought that was kind of respectful. I have

(25:33):
been there, you know, a matter of a year, and
he had put in numerous of years, you know, before
he became a champion, and I had been there one
year and became, you know, a champion, and I think
he didn't like that. I think that that was a
little dispect because when I first met him backstage, I mean,
I'm I'm I always I'm really quiet and key to myself,

(25:55):
so I didn't really speak to him aen I first
met him, and that was the night he was did
a run out on me, and I I think he
thought that was a little disrespectful. But that's why I
paid him back. And that match with me and the
road Wards had against him and he went to the
I sent him to the hospital. Then that's why I
paid him back. He got a receipt for it.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
Before we get to that w W take us back
to that match with when you got injured.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
At that point, well, I didn't know what was going on.
He just you know, we had me and Sean Michaels
was taged team against the Smoking Guns and they frugal
when I went out the road, Fruits supposed to come
out and you know and take over me in and
beat me down and just running. He ran out there,
and that first kick, I mean, right my kidney, I

(26:40):
mean it felt like a shotgun hit. And I was like, well,
I'll be damn and Tom works stiff. Fruit is uh
one of the stifferest guys in the business, brother, But
I liked that. I liked working against the guys who
were stiff, you know. And he just kicked me in
the kidney, and that was, you know, basically it. I mean,
you know I went to the hospital.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
You knew you hurt bad everything.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
No I didn't. I I mean, I it hurt like hell,
but I didn't know it was, you know, that bad Invaders,
the one who we I was rooming with Invader at
the time. We were sharing a room together and while
I was sleep, Vader said I was breathing funny, and
he got up and called the ambulance and and they
found out that he messed my kidney up a little bit.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
And I kept you out for how long at that point, mm,
I think about a month or so. And you you
said you felt it was on purpose.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
At that time, Yeah, I feel though it was it
was a just I mean he.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
Actually even said it that it was kind of on purpose.
It was a receipt, but I guess I was here'd
have told me that.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, I had told me. I never heard that before.
I mean I would have heard, I mean always here
he told me that. But yeah, I guess it it.
I did feel there was they wouldn't never received. How
could it be received. I never wrestled him before.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
M Yeah, maybe from what he heard from other guys
who wrestled you to not do it in his matches
or you know, you know.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
That's the only thing that matches were always stiff.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah, but it was, I.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
Mean we were stiff with respect, you know what I'm saying.
And like I said, uh no, I got the point
when I sent him back to the hospital and then.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yeah, tell us that story and it would And that.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
Was a receipt. I mean I did that on purpose. Yeah,
that was received because he had, you know, hurt me
and and I believe it return of my receipts.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
What Max was this again?

Speaker 2 (28:17):
It was one it was I don't remember with one
of what it was, but it was me and the
road wars against the nation basically, and it was that
it was a street fight, and yeah, I gave him
a spinebuster and drove my head in his ribs and
broke couple of ribs.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
This was this TI paper view. It was the sixth Man.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
It was, yeah, it was. It was a sick nation
all account more than six man.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
I was been a six man, Saviya Vegar, I think
Brian Adams, Yeah, exactly. Okay, Well there was another thing
that went on. Another wrestler brought up in another shooting interview,
so it pertains that that match was who will bringing
up now? During a shoot interview with the Road Wars
several years ago, Animal, uh when brought up your name,

(29:03):
didn't have many nice things to say, basically said that
some story about when you guys all came out with
the spikes or whatever. There was something to the fact that, uh,
he called you a thief and said that you stole
the spikes or something like that. As far as uh,

(29:23):
I don't I don't know what he what you playing
them doing with them, if that's what you know, even happened,
But something about that around that with the spikes and right.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Horn of all, I've never been a fan of any man,
you know, not Frediden Rasse was not frond of football
or whatever. How much money that I was making, I
had to still short of pat with spikes. I don't.
I don't get that, but I mean I don't. I mean,
I don't know. I didn't know Adam had he had
We had heat together. But if we do, fuck him

(29:50):
and you'll tell him like I said, and anytime he
won't fucking meet. We can during or out the ring.
But I mean, I didn't know we had any heat.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
You know that.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
But Hawk gave me the short pass and when I
went to return them, he told me to keep. He
gave me a shorter pass, He gave me, gave me
a new Japan jacket. And because we were me and
Hawk with real tight matter of fact, even after w F,
we still did some shows together as tag team, me
and him in Detroit with for got the name of
the ordination in Detroit that was run at the time. Uh,

(30:21):
we did it in Florida. We did a show in
Texas as tag team, and we talked to him all
the day through a matter of fact, his shoulder pass
earned Dallas, Texas right now and the body Proportator and
the big glass case display. That's the ones you were, Yeah,
the ones I wore because when he died, I gave
him his short passed to them because they got like

(30:42):
this hall of fame thing where they got like a glove,
you know, from whatever, and trunks from certain rastler boots
when they passed away. So I gave his short to
pass to them, putting the class.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
So maybe to clear this up a little, I guess
hawk gave you was it was his shoulder pads to
get me right.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
When I got we got done with the match, I
took the shoulder pads back the hog and he said, no, brother,
you keep them short. And I thought that was really cool.
And he got sit and gave me a jacket, a
new Japan jacket. So I don't know what though, bloated
ass animal was talking about. Yeah, you know, but if
he got a problem with it, he know, he know
how to contact me. If he got something to say,

(31:19):
don't be a little bitch and say it on the video.
He got something to say to me, coming me and
say it or call me, I'll meet you, plunk ass.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
I guess we'll continue with the LD at that point,
teaming with them, How did you feel because you were
kind of at that time.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
Well now I'm pissed off, But before that, I mean,
it was it was it was an honor. Yeah, it
was an honor the team with Animal Hawk, you know.
And I'm just right now, I'm still sweating real bad
in the medical and get pills. And I mean, by
the time, it was an honor to tag up with them,
And I mean I thought, you know, that was history

(32:03):
for me. You know, that's part of my the greatest
things I could talk about my life.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
It could it could have been jealousy again. I mean,
to some point, I think the roads would kind of
getting to the end of their the career, their career,
I mean, it was coming slowly right, and they saw
someone who resembled resembled them tremendously right, and maybe that
was another form of it that came out.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
And it could have been like, I didn't know we
had any heat. I had no idea that he had
talked about me like that. I always liked Animal and Hog,
I mean especially Hog. I mean, but because this type
of person, he can carry you regardless, he don't even
have to get in a ring, just his you know,
all his little water rush and all that stuff that
you say. People loved me, man, I mean he was

(32:46):
he was wild. He wow, he walked it like he talked.
He was a wild dude man and animals was you know,
remind me of me a little bit. He kind of
laid back and quiet like I was, and kept themselves
and real cool. I mean I didn't. I don't know
why he would say some bullshit like that.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
I guess also teaming with Yo Kazuna at that point,
with teaming with him a little bit when he turned face,
how was that? At that point it became friends, I
guess yeah, after we.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
Got it done with our little confidence, you know us.
Just how in life, man, once you get things out
of jests with somebody, usually become the best of friends.
And that's how it became with me. And I mean
I got off, he got what he had to sell chests,
so I confronted him right down in the locker room
in front of boat dog Orn and uh, we had
an understanding after that. We had a good understanding after that.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
I guess we'll get into now. Is the reputation that
seems to follow you everywhere, And that's something I guess
it's important to bring up. Is the fact that a
lot of wrestlers, this is what they've said, that you
don't protect people and your and that's why your stuff
looks so real. It is because you had the lack

(33:59):
of turning to protect anybody. And that's something I mean,
that's the main thing people talk about. And you might
wanna set that straight f or you.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
Know, the like I've had wrestlers tell me when you
walk into the ring, I actually got scared for the
first time, they say, because you look so pissed. And
your intensity, they say it it's so high. And that's
what Vince said about me. In fact, he's never seen
intensity from the time you come out of the curtain

(34:29):
to time you finish the match. He never seen intensity
like that. I mean, Jerry Lawler said it, Jr. Said it,
and just they love that. It's my intensity and it's intimidating,
you know, and especially what Vigel I was, I mean,
coming to the ring and fully loaded, you know, with intensity.
But that's just the way it was. It's where I
wasn't football, that's where I was. It's it's a survival mechanism.

(34:51):
But the funny part about that is, and let me
tell you what the bullshit comes into that play. At first,
of all, I was in devas c W. Not one
guy said I was stiff, Not one guy, so I
heard even Ho Holgan, I mean Hogan. I had uh
uh a s some blowsy change during the album one

(35:14):
of the big payer viewers. They had a battle Royal
and Holgan. I got to the back. Ho Hogan told me,
you know it. He said, you have the best punches
in the business. And he said, and the thing is,
he said, when you throw them punch, it was like
you're gonna kill somebody, he said, But those who are
the softest hits I've ever had in my life. He said,
you've had this s you got the softest punches I've

(35:34):
ever felt. And I think people let that intensity go
to the head. But why is it in devs W.
Not one guy I ever complained about me being stiff
or hurt 'em. Everybody, matter of fact, they would compliment
out how soft I was. Now you telling me there's
a difference between the WHW guys, WF guys. You telling
me WW guys go tough for something. Then not one

(35:56):
person playing it. That rumor came about when I left.
When I left, you know you don't leave that f
without them burying. I mean, think when anybody ever left
that didn't have something bad said about them. And one
of the things when I left was the fact that
they were saying that I was, you know, hard, My punches,

(36:17):
you know, and everything were hard, and I was, you know,
like you said, not protecting them, not protecting people. That
that's not true at all.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
What about on the moves too, I mean, let's say,
not even the punches, some of the movies you did,
like the Pro River Plunge and stuff like that. I mean,
I guess, did you do you know if any anytime
when you hurt somebody that you know, not once that
came up to you and said.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
You know, not once. I mean, name one person I
did per fun that went to the hospital. Nobody ever did,
matter of fact, that was party. It is the most
cushioned part of Mecca life. When I took you over
and I flipped you, I put my knees out to
make sure that you're back and your shoulders, you know,
your shoulder hit my knee before hit the map to
break your fall. Unless I didn't like it, then I

(36:59):
take you right through. But usually that's how I did it.
You know, I try to you know, I try to
take the guy. And like I said, it still goes
back to the fact a hy w W guys never complained,
not one mm ever complained about me being stuff from
me hurting, I'm gonna being hard, but deb F guys
did complain. It was more of a jealousy thing, I'm

(37:20):
telling you and ving you know the first if earned
champion and being as big as I was, a lot
of jealousy came with them. Man, that was shit load
of jealousy. And it's just the fact, like I said,
if I hurt WF, then I was gonna hurt w
W guys. You know what I'm saying Because in w
W I wasn't even in shape. I was four hundred
and ten pounds and I was out of shape and

(37:42):
my punch is off and kicks off c W so
and not one guy complained cause I never stiffed anybody
in wag W. But I mean I gave receipts. If
you hit me, I was gonna hit you back. Now,
it was just a nature of the business.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yeah, I guess also, uh, I guess you felt also
at the time in the WF how how were the
clicks back then during the I mean that that happens
a lot where I guess, you know, maybe the reason
this this you know, image of you has been out
there constantly is because you got five or six guys

(38:16):
that don't like you or another click who just say
it a couple of times. And in this business, if
they said it said two or three times, it seems
to have the life of its own and it just sticks.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
It does it does, especially put on the internet. It
sticked like lou And yet I mean, man, when I
got there, everybody had a click collector were deep, I
mean real deep. But the d X ran the show.
That's what is the way it was.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
What did you see back then? Did you see as
far as they were saying, this show and had a
lot of control over I guess a lot of the
situations with h his character and stuff like that, and
used to have you know, flip out sessions and go
home and lost the smile and all that other stuff.
What what did you see firstthand back then?

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, and Sean ran thing him Diesel It was him
Diesel Razor and Triple H and and and they basically
run the show.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
And if they didn't like it, you were buried.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
You were buried.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
Well, just what guys did you see that happened to
I mean I heard Bigelow they didn't like at one
point or yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
But you know, like I said, I never really got
into their business. I mean, I just I've always kept
to myself. Man's that was my thing about me that
you know, the red corstic and never say I got involved.
They need a bullcrap one that's going on. But I mean,
I don't know the Brett situation. I mean, you know,
you hear rumors and hear stuff that was going on,
and I thought that was, you know, kind of shitty.

(39:44):
But besides that, I mean trying to think a to
add heat with I'm sure they had heat with everybody.
I mean none of the boys liked them. I mean
they act like they like and they kissed up their
ass because they were running the show at the time.
So I mean everybody was kissing up to them. But
I mean I don't think back in the lock with
anybody liked him.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Now, you said you were injured from the fruit Kicker.
You said, you know how long were you up?

Speaker 2 (40:10):
But I don't remember a month or two, Okay, I believe.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
And uh, I guess that didn't really derail your push
at that point.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
It was just just delayed.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
It delayed it a little bit.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
Yeah, I had to get a Uh nobody ever beat
me for the Continental Belt. That's what's cool about it.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
For me.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
I'm still down condol champion. Nobody ever beat me, but
they took it from me because I was injured. You
don't put him in the tournament.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
I also talk about the uh which I have so
many matches on tape, the uh Kuwaiti Cup.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Oh, that was fun. That was fun. That lived in
Kuaity Cup was something else that was fun. I had
my final Masters against Triple A's man and he basically,
I mean caught the whole mash. He walked me through it.
He was triumple Ah was a good guy back then.
I don't know how I've been, you know, up there

(40:55):
with him for a while, but back then he was.
He was basically a good guy man. I mean whole match,
the final match, I mean he called it and and
walked me through it, the whole match and everything. He
was tr He was good.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
And uh, what else did you take on in that tournament?

Speaker 2 (41:11):
Was uh? Me and Yoko tagged up against well that
was for the tour. It's yeah, okay, it was Al
Snow and uh, I forgot the type of Martin Jeanetti.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah kay.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
And I took on Owen and Owen had a one
on one which I you laugh to I would laugh
basically the whole match, cause he just him and his
tor holls Man. They never stopped. They never stopped entering
out the ring. They never stopped, you know. And and
just the quay tournament was good. I I enjoyed that
big time.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
So who uh came up with turning you heel at
that point?

Speaker 2 (41:48):
I guess it was an office decision.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
I mean that seems like a kind of a weird
thing to do when you were so yeah, I mean
you were really on fire.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
Yeah I too. It's somebody was trying to slow down
to the steam a little bit.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
Yeah, turning Hill just doesn't seem right for what you were,
headed towards him, right headed towards whul Cogan level, you know.
I mean that's what they were looking to do.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Somebody turned down on steam a little bit. I mean,
and like I said, the action was running things at
the time, so who knows might have been decision and
eighty they came to You know what I'm saying, put
the brakes on 'em.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Who told you were gonna be turning hill?

Speaker 2 (42:28):
I wanna say, Jerry Briscoe, a jackt store running the Briscoes.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Told me, and you were fine with it or you
just were like whatever.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
No, I hated it, and they I mean, and Briscoe
hated it. You didn't like it either. But I mean,
if it comes from you know, the boss, what can
you do but do what you're told. No, I didn't
wanna do that at all.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Man. That was.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
I did not wanna turn heal, but do what you're told.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
What year was that? Around minnyes six?

Speaker 2 (42:54):
I wanna say ninety seven? Huh yeah, it's not something
and well you say, I quickly ended.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
But the last a week he turned it in to
take it right. He said yeah, okay, and.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
It it didn't last very long. I invinced God. I mean,
wor we was. We had a match where we all
came down. The nation was mean for Rook d Low
rock Mark hearing Comma and I remember Vince uh I
called us at the office and he said, uh, I'm in.
He said, I'm I'm about to take you out the nation,
and you going to guard being a man. I like,

(43:28):
you know myself, I'm saying, you just turned. I just
made all my fans hate me. Now in a week
or two, I gotta make him a lightning again. And
I thought that was really weird, you know. But then
he said, and the reason why, he said, I want
you to look at this, and he hit the recorder
and to see us six black dudes coming down their rimp.
I mean, everybody's like three hundred pounds up in d

(43:49):
low or bigger. It was intimidating. I mean, once I
watched it, I see what he's talking about. He was like,
you see this, He said, who am I gonna get
to believe that anybody can beat y'all? Who? Who? What?

Speaker 1 (44:01):
Fruit was the leader at that point, right of the
of the group.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
So you were gonna be just no, I was gonna
take over.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
You were gonna take that. That was the idea. Yeah,
and Fruit was gonna go down a notch.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
Or yeah, you can go down a notch. And it
was they said, you know the way the magazines stud
put in there. I was trying to get in there
to break it the nation out inftraate the nation, you know,
like a secret agent or something that's liked the nation
or whatever. And yeah, I was gonna take over leadership
cause if you know who what I ramp. I walked
out first, and uh man, it was it was it

(44:34):
was scary. I I see events said, that was the
most intimidating group I've ever seen in professional wrestling. I
mean you see all was coming down of the ramp
and all that beef and it's like, oh no, they
this can't happen.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
And what were you thought in the guys in the
nation at that point? Uh was it?

Speaker 2 (44:51):
Uh? Uh?

Speaker 1 (44:53):
The Godfather Gamma at that point get along with him?

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Yeah, I got a glad glad okay with Comma you
lot two. Well, me and Dilo had a little uh
I didn't put him in his place. And then after that,
me and Rock got into uh a little incident in
the locker room.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
Y you in the Rock.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
Yeah, we got into a little uh uh scuff in
the locker room on time. Well, he was saying some
stuff and it wasn't about me, just he was saying
stuff that I don't think he should have been saying
about anybody. And I came around and confronted him about it.
Would you be able to tell us what he was
saying or well, the the thing that what being said

(45:30):
was he was there was a a incident, I mean,
if I can get it correctly, somebody match he had
with somebody and and he didn't wanna do their high
spots at one point or something like that, and I
just got him, you know, I didn't like the fact
that he was getting a little cocky. She getting a
little too cocky for me. And we had a match

(45:51):
coming up, and matter of fact, that same night, and
I was we was going on the match, and I
was willing to do his high spots, but he wouldn't,
wouldn't do all mine. And so I told him, you know, okay,
if you're not gonna do mine, you think i'm'a do
yours and you gonna do mine, I ain't doing yours either.
And then I got to the point where I said, well,
look when we get in the ring, when we can
just get it on in the ring. Mm, we were

(46:13):
just selling the ring. And then we got into a
little little competition back there and then Farukan uh what
was it, comma, yeah, fruit Comma came in. They broke
it up. Was a fight or it was just a yeah,
it was little. It was a few blows through. Really. Yeah.
He was in the rock yeah, ma in the Rock man.

(46:33):
H Well. Somebody told me earlier too, once you can
go back to the Jaysy thing. Somebody told me that
he didn't like the fact that he was called Rocky
my Villa and I was Aman Johnson, which it was
their last name, his father's last thing that he wrestled with,
you know, Rocky Johnson.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Which is he was here today too, Rocky Johnson.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Easy, yeah, yeah. And I heard he didn't They didn't
I appreciate he didn't appreciate that, you know. Well, I
mean I don't know how true, did you know how rumor?
It's just rumors that I I I was Ed Johnson.
I mean that's not a name. I picked this thing
they you know, they gave me.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
And you said you got into a little thing with Delo.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah, oh Delo, Yeah, I would. I wouldn't nothing. It
w he was just getting him straight and it was nothing.
A little good dude man. Yeah, he was a good guy.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Mkay.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
I guess U.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
Right around this period he got injured again, right around
the uh turning heel uh.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
Uh against da one of the twins went lower 'em
in s my knees. I mean you can hear the
pop on my knee. He went lower my knee and
it snapped backwards. And I mean it was so loud
even around freak air, like you know, just snapping. He
tore the a cl and I need him Moniscus and
I and.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
You were out for a while.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Not yeah, I would said about a month or two
and a half and two you know, rehabbing knee, getting
it right. But you know, once again back to events,
keeping his word. That's what I mean. You know, he
went above to call it the most of the time
because he paid for everything. He didn't have to do that,
you know, all my reading, my surgery, and my rehab
for my knee. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's

(48:09):
a payoff for him too on that, you know, get
me back in the ring quicker.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
Also, I mean during this time, was did because it
seemed like you were really a real project to become
huge in the promotion and ad Vince ever come to
you and say, you know, he had a couple of
different bed breaks with getting injured and this, that and
the other. I mean, did he ever say we want
to get you on that track to really get there
or did he have to? I mean, how much how

(48:41):
much influence did he have in trying to mold you
to get to that top that you know, was it
his project or was it?

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Yeah, it was doing. I was Vince's project. And that's
why the pressure was so good. I mean, I was
Vent's project, and you know he I mean, even after
the injuries I come back, he was still you know,
giving me the push, you know, and and the instant
and when when I left, it was something very serious,
something I had to do.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Mm hmm. We'll get to that one minute, I guess, okay.
The next thing would be, Uh, there was something about
where you were quoted as saying, I'm gonna say the quote,
I don't know, it's probably totally wrong, but uh something
about selling a punch from China, and he said, uh,

(49:29):
ain't gonna let no bitch hit me. There's something along
the line.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
I don't know what it came from there, said men
Kind said that in his book, and I said that
I didn't. I don't remember ever saying I loved China.
China was my girl back, I mean, they I mean
she was I thought she was great. I thought she
was good for the business and everything, and she, I
mean she interfered a few matter me a triple a
where she hit me with a chair. Now, a Johnson

(49:54):
character might have said that in in character, but I mean,
as far as I'm personal, no, I never meant anything
personal about that. If I said that in character, Yeah,
that's why something I was saying character, cause I mean,
you know, that was just all made Johnson character. And
I'm made that no bit hit me and and she
hit me, i'm'na hit her back. That was my gimmick. Yeah,
And it's funny how people will take shit that's your

(50:15):
gimmick and make it like it's you, you know, I
mean off off camera. Me and China got along very well,
very well. So yeah, I mean I might have said that,
but it was in character. The business, you know, that
was part of the business.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
She had no problem doing anything. They pretty much wanted you. No,
it's nothing, kay, What Well, what led to I guess
your ruh Uh? It was a I guess you had
a feud around there around with Jarrett at that point.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Was that uh? Mainly you started taking on Jared.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
Right, Yeah, Well, Jared was when I first got there
and we we were oh.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
I'm sorry that, Yeah, that was my first Well, since
we didn't talk about that, how did you like working
with you?

Speaker 2 (51:06):
I didn't he didn't know, didn't like but no, he
didn't like okay, And what was the reason why that arrogance?
Extremely extremely arrogant off camera? I thought he Moore was
more than what he is like he is now JNA.
I mean, Ja could rock and roll if he understands

(51:28):
that he's not the rock and he relinks, you know,
some of his control. I mean, G and A can
go off real good. But that's just him. Brother, He's
just you think he's the best things. It's like cheese
and that's outside of the business. No, No, I didn't
like that.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Boy did he? Uh? I guess with TNA and everything,
did uh you have a good contacted by ten? I
guess not.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
So we never got a lot of Yeah, I brought
it on the lab for because me and Steve Ray
had a confrontation against when I was w c W.
What's the guys? I can't think it's a big guy's name.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Some of the friends with Jared you had to come.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
Yeah, one of Jiff's friends, the.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
Harris brothers name Awesome.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
Also it's my name the he's a big guy, right yeah, No,
Mike Alsome, I guess that's who it was. He one
time we were out of town when Steve Ray were
out of town and Booker had a match and we
watched it and Mike Awesome, I mean did his his
awesome bomb and I mean almost took Booker through the
the turn Booker, which why I would have killed him
if was the head would hit, you know, and me

(52:35):
and Stevie when he got back into w When we
got back w W, we pulled him in the restroom
and gave my starn talking to and Jared was said nothing,
and I guess, you know, work got out there. We
we had beat the boy up or something. We didn't
touch him, wed his talk to him about what he
did the Booker and then know how we didn't appreciate it,

(52:56):
and what happens again, then there's to be some problems.
And Jared was sitting out there and all of a sudden,
murmurs got around that we beat the guy up with
some crowd like that, and I did say anything to him.
I just basically went never with Stevie, you know, stevee
as my boy, and if Stevie jump, i'm'a jump. And
I said, when we grew up like that, you know basically.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Mm so he was just pretty much arrogant from the
beginning and then.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
But yeah, you never really got that yet if he
was arrogant, you know, and the boys, I mean, I
always he was talkingbout how arrogant he was, and you know,
and I always thought, you know, just getting into business.
You don't know how people really are til you get
in the business and meet 'em. But yeah, he was
pretty much out there. We kind of just touch on
a a point from Jared.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
I believe a uh story and I hope you hopefully
can clear it up for me, is that there was
a match supposed to be a match between you and
jareded and I was probably because of his jealousy or
something like that. Somebody said, I heard that you refused
to job to him, and that's where in the up
that he wrestled Buddy Landell living that night.

Speaker 4 (54:01):
No, I rassed some buddy in deal oh you olways,
vice versa.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
Jared didn't wanna do the job, okay, And yeah, I
rapped wrest his buddy in Dell And no, no, no
back up. I rasped a buddy in Delle in Dean
Douglas's place. I mean Douglas uh said he he was
hurt that I was nothing else. But nah, I was
new to the visions, I mean jered, but only there
a short time when I first got there. I mean
I didn't. He was only there a few months ago.
They had heat going him and Vinso had heat going,

(54:27):
and so he wasn't there that long. But no, I mean,
I there's no way I could refuse to wrest somebody
down here around the new guy on the block, I mean, Vince,
how do you think eventually took that? You know, I
mean I'm not wrestling in his chair, you know. Please,
I've been fired and heartbeat. I mean I have the
new kid on the blocker, I ain't have him any
pool any say so about nothing. You just shut your
mouth and do what you told. I knew your rolls

(54:49):
somewhere in there. Yeah, I remember what who who didn't
want a job? Yeah? It wasn't No, it wasn't mean,
I mean, I'm s they didn't it. It was a
lot of jailuys going busts. To mean, when I first
got there, I mean I didn't lose. He push push
push pushed me, and I mean maybe I got to
get pushing. The boys don't like that when you just
get into business and all of a sudden you become
a student star here. They have been for you know,

(55:12):
ten years, and but that's just the way it is.
I mean, sometime the fans here that take to you
or they don't like Delo Brown for instance. I'm telling
Delo is one of the best workers in the history Eresse,
but the fans won't take to him. Mark Henry been
there for i mean ten years now, and no matter
what you do with Mark Henry, the fans just don't

(55:33):
take to him. And it's up to the fans either
they like you or they don't. And that's what they're about.
New York fans, especially at the best read gardens. New
York fans are hot and cold. They're on and off.
Either they like you or they don't. I'm not talking
about them that he'll baby face a way. You can't
bullshit New York fans. They know who can work, they

(55:53):
know who's the tough gimmick, they know who you know.
They can look beyond you. It seems like and they
tell this guy really a tough guy outside the ring,
are just such a gimmick. And that's what a lot
about in Mascret Garden where the fans they just electrify you, man,
but they are so smart to the business until it

(56:14):
was sickening and some of the guys just just couldn't
get over. And I said, Dlo was one of the
guy that I never understood why the fans never took
to him, cause I mean he was a good worker man,
real good worker.

Speaker 3 (56:27):
But actually another point would talk about that match. I
believe because of that match, Uh, buddy, Landelle subsequently was
getting more shots and opportunities and in her work and
he had I've heard many times it was a pretty
good match. Well, any thoughts on Boddy and you.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
Know, yeah, I mean it was I he was cool man.
He just he wasn't nothing l like his gimmick. They
put it like this, he was nothing like the arrogant gimmick.
It was funny butter than Dale should have been the
jerk spot. It wouldn't a lot further if whether Dale
wouldn't And because he I mean he just I mean,
you know, we're going on a match and he you know,

(57:05):
helped me as far as what moves he thought would
be good next. And he seeing me be a real
good dude.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Man.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
And I don't know him personally, but you know, just
from what I know from the match thing he seen,
you know, he was a real great guy.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
There was one other thing we wanted to cover. Uh
during the nineteen ninety seven roll rumble. You give a
pear uh plunge to one of the guys of the nation. Uh,
there was a story to that.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Well, yeah, this guy, the guy that I did it too,
was everybody. Remember that's one of the most highlight moment
people remember me by as that playing through the table,
got through the table again. His name was Joseph. He
was a friend of mine. I brought him down to
that match with me from Houston. He was a worker too,
but he tried to play me. He owed me one
hundred and fifty dollars, okay, And here I was getting

(57:55):
them booked on Dark Match with w F and and
trying to help him out, and he bought it from
me and said he grabd me back and never paid
me back and never brung it up there like I
just forgot about it, you know. So I asked for
let him get in the nation with him for that
night till I was gonna take somebody through the table
and going through the table, so I told him I

(58:16):
won't take him to the table cerfectly. So yeah, after
the match, he tried to get away and it was
really grabbed him and I took him over there, pulled
the steps out and set him through the table, And
I mean I didn't mean to bunch his head open
like that. The monitors were still on the table on
the TV monitor when he went down and slid the
edge of it hit him in the head and slid

(58:37):
his head all back here like ninety stitches. And but yeah,
I did it because he owed me money and he
tried to play me, so I brung him in and
I played him.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
All right way back with amed uh. I guess you
could maybe start telling us the reasons you left w
w E at that point.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
What came about for a lot of the thing that
played the biggest part of me leaving well, the fact
that my my sister had cancer and she was in
hospital and she was they she was dying her cancer,
and she was a w w F fan tooth and nails.
I mean, she you know, decided as her brother. She

(59:17):
had her favorite. She loved Saron Michael, she loved Rock,
you know, and then she liked Stone Cold until she
m found up the truth about it, and she was
just avw fan to her heart man, and she was
d They told us, you know, they couldn't do anything
for her, you know, they were doing chemo and you know,

(59:39):
turning through the radiation and all that for a while
and and just wasn't working. And we thought it was
gonna work, and it didn't work. And I was spending
tons of money, you know, trying to help her and
you know and keep her going and stuff. And then
they thought her basically told us just to put her
in the hospital and just let her and keep her
comfortable on her you know, let it happen. And that
start of fe give me a big time in the ring.

(01:00:01):
I didn't tell anybody about it. I did't even tell
Dvance about it, you know. I just trying to deal
with it on my own, like I've done all my life.
I tried to deal with my own problem. I don't
really tell anybody about him. And I was trying to
deal with it, and it was eating me because I
knew every time I was on TV. She was watching it,
and you know, and instead of me concentrating on the match,
I was thinking about her, you know, watching my match

(01:00:22):
and this another hospital on it, and it killed me.
And it got to the point where born, Yeah, I
mean I go back and I after recanning a statement
I made when I said I never refused to not
do something one time, and then right when I quit,
I was going against the South African group name.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
That was at the U, I know, uh South Africa.
Was that like with a sniper recon.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
Or something like that, the bunts Truth Commission, Truth commission,
and we were gonna have a match, and I I
guess one of 'em was gonna dry me up the
rail around my neck with a rope or something or
something crazy, something very racist. Only I didn't want her
to see, you know, somebody. I just didn't want my
sister to to see me doing you know something like that,

(01:01:14):
you know before she you know, uh, she's passing away.
And then that among with you know, the fact that
I had got a phone call like fifteen minutes before
the match and you know they said she was you know,
doing real, real bad, and you know, just wanted to
let me know, she was doing real bad and I couldn't.
You know, that was just too much for me, you know,

(01:01:35):
And I wouldn't in talk to the Vands and told
me I couldn't do it basically, and you know, I
I just haven't some stuff I had I need to
deal with. I never told him what it was, but
I told him had some things I had to go
deal with. So I that's when I quit. I I
l P, got my bagging and left. We was already
in Texas, and you know, I got from my bag
and went straight to the airport and flew to Florida

(01:01:56):
to the fire side. And she died a week later.
MM when we got through that crap went on and
we got so I left the WF. She died, and
then ever, that's what really got to me, cause you know,
I know why why I left, and every some guys
knew why I left, but too here are all the
rumors on the internet. It's why I left that just

(01:02:17):
killed me. But it was And then I I I understood.
I I talked to somebody I forgot who what I called,
and they explained to me the fact that if you
look back in history of WF, nobody has left the
de WF willing to unwilling me without a gimmick being

(01:02:37):
pushed as to why they left. You know what I'm saying.
I mean, if you leave WF, the Internet's gonna be
filled with rumors. You know, mine was I was too stiff,
I was mean, I was this, that and the other.
You know, hard get along with. Just a man of
himself will tell you he never had a problem with me.
Jerry Briscoe Jay Uh, they told me they never had

(01:02:57):
a problem with me. I've always did what I was
talking except for that point. Cause after I got that
phone call and said, you know, you need to get home.
She's doing real bad, I just it just everything came
crashed down in my mind. You know, we been through
too much as kids, and I mean did the abuse
for my father and all the stuff we've been through.
We been through too much. You know, I said, I

(01:03:18):
watched her die like that and may not be there,
but after I left, I said, one week after I left,
she died when we got to my departure.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
That of you at that show that you were at,
you were at the show and you just decided to
leave at that point.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
Well, yeah, I got the show I was dressed and everything,
and we had already went over the match, and it
was I got the phone call like fifteen minutes you know,
before they gave us the the match and gimmick and stuff,
and uh my brother called me and told me, I
was she doing real real bad? You need you need
to get home. And I was gonna go ahead and
do the match, and then you know, talked events about it,

(01:03:56):
but it was just you know, eating me up. And
then they told them what they want to do with
the true commission and dragging me up a rail Like
she's dying, I'm not gonna let her. So, I mean
she was, she didn't missed deliver. Yeah, she was glued.
I mean this was even before I got if she
was a fan mm and you know, it's the last
that I want her to see before she died, after
an image I wanted to keep in her head. Your

(01:04:17):
brother getting the ship be out of and getting dragged
up for rail by his neck. You know, that's just
not what I wanted her to see. And then that
and and the fact that she was doing a relevant
it just all came tumbling down.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
So in the middle, middle of the show, playing of
the show, you you took off at that point.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Yeah, before the show began, Before it began, did you help?

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
You told somebody.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
Briscoe and Vince. I told Briscoe and I went off.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Not the reason though, No, it just said you gotta go.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
I just couldn't do it right now to go. I mean,
I didn't like burning people. My problem. That was my problem,
you know, that was my family, that was my problem,
you know, just like a kid. I mean I I
was thoroughly of abused and stuff like that. And then
you know, even joining the gang and stuff like that.
It was these were my problems. And I mean I've
been a man since I was thirteen, and these are

(01:05:05):
problems that I deal with. And I don't tell people
my problems. I don't go and tell you something for sympathy.
This is not my game.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
If you want to discuss it, you kind of it's
up to you. Do you want to talk about any
of the abuse you you had as a.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
Brother, whatever, just open I'm open to you. What everyone
to talk about?

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
What kind of abuse was? It was just physical abuse?

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
Seeing well, yeah, it was just just physical abuse. I
mean it was in that magazine, the w F magazine
Beneath the skin that Vince Russo did and just get
hit on a few points. I remember one time we
were real skinny as kids, I mean skinny, skinny, skinny,
and our father didn't allow we wouldn't allowed to go
in the refrigerator or touch any of the food uns

(01:05:50):
they gave it to us. And it got to the
point where one time, I'm the middle kid, but my
brother and sisters always looked out to me as being
like the big kid, even my oldest brother and sisters.
I was always happening to go out and steal food
for them, and we ate out of garbage cans, m
you know, our neighbor's garbage cans and stuff like that.
And I remember one time one of the situations was, uh,

(01:06:17):
my father had left we y, I thought he was gone,
and my brother then were hongry. I mean, we were
so hungry, brother, I'm telling you, we thought we from Ethiopia.
Our rigs were short and everything, and there was some
hot dogs and refrigerators. So when he left, I went
there and I put two hot dogs and I was
boring 'em so I can feed my my, my brothers
and sisters. And he came back home. I didn't hear

(01:06:38):
him coming home, and he came in the door and
he was like who and the kick him heat so
and so hot dogs, and nobody said a nice side.
I did. And he tied me down to the bed
and take the boiling water and pour it on my stomach.
And it was so bad, I mean, and m s.
My skin came off from the circle about that big boy,

(01:06:59):
and and my skin to start bubbling up. And I
remember him taking me in and putting me in the
bathtub for of cold water. And when he did, my
skin start peeling off and start of floating atop the water.
It was so deep. The burn was so deep until
the blood spragmentations in your stomach started bleeding. That's how
deep the burn was. And I remember him he wouldn't
pay me the hospital or anything, and I had to

(01:07:20):
sit there and deal with that pain night after night.
He would just take vascainine grease, I remember, and butter
and rub it on the burn like that was supposed to,
you know, stop the pain or whatever. And you had
to be tough. He didn't want you to cry or
anything like that. I mean I did, because I mean,
it's she's stomach. And then another instant was. I remember

(01:07:42):
my sister had a piggy bank and she thought somebody
stole it. She couldn't find it, and so he took
all the boys, mean, take all the clothes off, and
he got a stenchion cord, a switch, and a belt.
I mean he'd beat us for hours. It was so bad.
I desired you to not actual blood and some of
our skin was on the wall. I mean, it worked.

(01:08:03):
And then then the only beating I ever seen it
came close to it. I don't know if you seen
Passion of the Christ, but that beating that that they
gave Christ w that's the only beating I ever seen
came close. For when we got and he was beating us,
other said I always been the leader of the middle kid,
but I was was the the one who took the
the blunt of everything. And I remember I told him
I did it. I didn't do it. Probably want him

(01:08:23):
to start beating my brothers, And I told him I
did it, And man, he went perserved. He was like,
you mean, tell you my name. Remember he hit me,
and my dad's a big man. He was like three
hundred pounds and he hit me. I remember going down
on the floor. And he took the bump bed and
flipped him over on top of me, and he beaten
me man ujil. I passed and I woke up. There

(01:08:44):
was skin off my head, hit my penis, some skin
came off my penis. I mean, I was this bloody.
I mean it was so bad. My mom had come
in to night got a st stinch from the blood
so that I was so strong. My mom had to
come in to night. I remember her turning me over
on the bed and I actually had to peel the
sheets off my back and the blood and stuff. I mean,
it was just that bat and that's just you know,

(01:09:04):
some things we went through. He was a very the
thing about it. He was a very intense violent man,
you know. And I can remember one time I was
in research and it and and it started playing his
role in in our lives. And I think that was
one reason why I was so good in the sports,
cause I always had that extra edge, and which is

(01:09:26):
not a compliment, by the way. I remember one time
we were playing softball and we were in middle school,
elementary school, and this guy, and I'll never forget the
guy's name, Ray Shanks. He was pitching and he was
mad because we were knocking in our home run. They
hadn't got the batchet, and there was the recess was
almost over. And he said, i'm'a start pitching fast now,
not as what, just don't hit me with the ball.

(01:09:47):
And when I turned the bat and he threw it,
and the ball just barely touched me, I mean barely
moved a hair on my arm. But if the fact,
I said, don't do it, and I run the picture
him out with the batman. I hit this dude in
his head of that baseball. I mean, blood went everywhere
and they put the kid in a comba for a
little while. MM and yeah, I can remember the coach
tackling me and hold me down. And then they got
me in the principal's office and they called my dad

(01:10:10):
and I'm like, oh my god, he gonna kill me now.
I mean, i'm'a get a real bad beat now. And
he was part of a Mocacer game called the Road Knights,
and you could hear them Harley's coming down the street.
A mile before they get there. You hear some hot thunder.
There was like nine of 'em. They came to the
school and they walked in there and the copsitor there
and Copper was so scared of the road nights cause
they didn't play. They were like they hell angels almost.

(01:10:30):
And I remember walking there and he was like, what
if you do now? And the principal was like, well,
he hit a kid and they had a baseball bad
and the kids in a coma. And my dad looked
at me and said what'd you do that for? I said,
cause he hit me at the ball. And then my
dad said, oh, hit you at the ball first, good,
then you should have hit him in the so and
so head let's go. And they took me out man
and brought me ice cream. And I mean like I

(01:10:52):
was the greatest person on earth cause I hurt somebody,
you know. And that's that's the kind of dad he was.
You know, hm.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
Uh, what was your relationship with your mother?

Speaker 2 (01:11:05):
You gotta look at her like this. With my mother,
I I s she's dead now, but I still have
a sid problem with her. I didn't like even when
she died for her, I couldn't cry. I didn't cry her.
If you know, I still haven't cried today about her
being dead because as a mother, how I mean, even
if you're scared, how could you allow someone to abuse
your kid like that if you love your kids, you

(01:11:29):
know I have uh uh uh. My six year old
stays with me now. I mean I have never had
to spend her once, and I couldn't if I had to,
cause I love her just that much. You know, I
can yell at her or or you know, go on
mad Johnson on her, you know, and act like I'm
gonna do some 'em. You will tell. But I've never
met my daughter. Watch and it made it even more
clear when I had my own kid for me to

(01:11:51):
ask that question, how could my mother not have stopped it?
I mean, even as you you're you're scared, that's you
can't let somebody hurt your kid is like that man
if you love him. So, I mean, I I got that.
I'm dealing with that right now.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
Mentally with my mother, I don't you know, I love her,
but I still got a problem with her.

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
Where's your father today?

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
I'm Florida.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
We have a relationship with him?

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
No, No, we don't talk at all. Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
Getting back to wrestling a little bit. What led you
to go to Uh? What'd you do be in between leaving? Actually,
let's move back a little let's when you left w
w A. At that point, you took off and you left.
What happened as far as the company's saying, are you
coming back? What's going on?

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
H I basically I get a call from one time
and I forgot who I talked to. Body basically told him,
you know, I just right now, I just gotta deal with,
you know, the situation my sister dying, and because I
might said, we were real close, and you know, I
had to deal with that situation first.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
Did they understand or.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
They seem to. They seem to. I don't think they
expect me, not that you know. I have never called
WF once since I've been gone, and I'm just now
coming to grips with the fact that, you know, I
really enjoyed working for them, and I might be giving
them a call and see you if what that Vince says, MM,
you know, i'splaying to him a situation and see what

(01:13:25):
he said? Why I laughed. He getting to understand either,
I won't understood if you are getting a great push
and you take off, I mean, they they didn't understand that.
But I mean it's something I wasn't even willing to
talk about. But I'm cool with it now. I mean
it's to the point now where you know, she's my sister,
a lover and she's gone. If not, I gonna do
about that. So you left at that point? Did uh.

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
Did they try to? I mean, uh, it was it basically,
we'll call you. I mean, I'll call you. You kind
of told them if I'm coming back.

Speaker 2 (01:13:55):
Yeah, you know, if I'm you know, ever interested in
the rest again, I I I would like to keep
the eye should open and give you guys a call.
But it was to the point where I had to,
you know, I had to really get things straight and
come to grip with a lot of things, a lot
of things, and that was one of them that was
just hard to come to Grips with.

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
So I guess they let you out of the contry,
you know, if you got a contract.

Speaker 2 (01:14:20):
That they let me out the contract.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
So it was just dissolved at that point. And then, uh,
did you try getting back to them before you went
back to before you just signed with WCW.

Speaker 2 (01:14:29):
No, So now WW called me. Vince Bruce caught me
a year after. I laughed and I I told him no.
So I didn't go back for like, you know, they called.
And then when Stevie called me, it was afferent ball
together and I said, we we basically grew up together,
me and Stevie. Yeah, and we've been in a lot
of fights together in the streets, a lot of street
fights together. I don't know if he told you guys

(01:14:50):
some of the stories. Now, yeah, well we have to
we've weare We fought MENI ores on the streets together,
man or yeah, you say, I see that you're growing up,
you know. And and right before the business and we
were we were man. We were attacked TV before wrestlings
a bit like that. We we tacked him on many
answers in the streets. And when he called, Stevie called me,

(01:15:14):
asked me to come tag with him, and every tell me,
I mean, I asked my boy. I couldn't say no, man,
that's no. Just the closest guys in the world.

Speaker 1 (01:15:21):
To me and Stevie til Stevie got you in there
or or tru you know, go.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
Ben's called except year after I left him, but I
wanted me coming out and told him you wouldn't not
what I wanted to do. Then Stevie, you know, when
he called a little while later, I was like, okay,
you call him and then we you know, sat down
in a restaurant. I meet him and Bence Russo and
talked and got it together. What how much I wanted
it and all that. You know, I went over there
and it was a new home heat right. Yeah. I

(01:15:47):
was out of shape so bad then though. Man, I was, man,
my stomach was up here. I was like four hundred
and ten pounds. And that was the most miserable time
of my lot. Man, four and ten pounds.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
That was on TV. You weighed that much?

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
Yeah, I was fourteen w CW brother, it was. It
was Mira. I mean I sweated twenty four hours a day. Uh.
I couldn't walk from telling you from here to the
bathroom when I'm going. I mean it was just terrible.
Oh I felt terrible.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
And the uh the run there, I guess didn't really
seem to work out for for yourself. What what came?

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
Well, I j I it w no cause, like I said,
I then they called me. Only reason I went was
for Stevie, And I was, like I said, I just
was so f out of shape, man. I mean I
had just I mean my sister's death. I just I
just gave up on life. Honestly gave up on life.
I didn't care what happened or I did. Would sit
at home and eat and watch TV and start working

(01:16:43):
out and everything. And there was the recent Now I'm
back into it and I'm like down to my fighting
wait and everything. But you know, at the time, you
know when I got four hundred and ten pounds, I
mean I couldn't even know I got that heavy. Mm.
I didn't think I was k it was capable of
me getting that heavy four hundred ten pounds what I inw.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
W until us. But you run there as far as
uh you had a couple of matches with uh.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
Well you know uh ed Roard's and matches and stuff.
Though I think I I I I kind of enjoyed
it in was de Wa. I mean it was a
lot of bickering, I mean, going back forth with the boy.
It was just the problem with w W to me
was there was too many chiefs, non up Indians. M
Everybody wanted to be the head honcho. I mean you

(01:17:28):
had egos clashing with egos. I mean, everybody wanted to
be number one. And then it seemed like what happened
was the boys got control of the w W, and
that's when things start getting bad, you know, And you
got all these egos going up against each other and
things start going getting bad. From that point on.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
Anybody who just didn't like there, that guy's r rubbed
you the wrong way. She'll say whole name.

Speaker 2 (01:17:54):
Like Jeff Eric. Yeah. The one I didn't like was
Jared Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
Had you go along with Hall?

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
Mash Oh? I always got along with what was Scott Hall? Line?
Scott got mad at one point cause, like I said,
when I got WF, let me tell you a story
record Scott Hall. When I got WF, nobody nobody here.
I was a young rookie. Nobody would like help me.
That's why I know that jealousy was there. Scott Hall
was the only one I didn't ask for help or anything.

(01:18:24):
But this man what every match I had was behind
the curtains watching me. When I got done, I came
up the ring. He would pull me to the site
every time and tell me what looked good, what didn't
look good, what the change would not change. And then
I think he got mad because when he left. When
he was doing that, Vincent had me doing that, you know,
after I you know, before I put you in the

(01:18:46):
the proper plunge. I will always go like that mm
and that was Scott Hall's thing when he was in
depth door. He did it slow and cool, you know.
I did a real fast and intense and for what
I heard was he didn't appreciate me doing that, you know,
but it wasn't my call. If the boss was called,
you know, I'm gonna do what I'm told. And he
didn't appreciate that. He thought I was I got stealing

(01:19:07):
a gimmick or something, and so he didn't like that
too much.

Speaker 1 (01:19:10):
I heard. Any Uh, did you have any run ins
with Rick Clair or never get along with him? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:19:18):
Yeah, I didn't have run with anybody except that one
thing with Mike Awesome. Mean, you know when he trying
hurt Booker, it was like that. No, I didn't have
to run him with anybody. What uh?

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
What leked to you leaving w C dummy?

Speaker 2 (01:19:32):
Just I cause I wasn't into it man, especially Dew
they were like the enemy.

Speaker 3 (01:19:37):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:38):
I felt like I was really dirty. Man, I'm the
idea and I feel like I was. I was dirty.
I feel like I was betraying and being a gang
member and grunt where I grew up betraying somebody, and
it's just not something that you can live with, you know.
And I feel like I was betraying WWF and the fans.
I I honestly did, and just I never was comfortable there,

(01:20:00):
M never liked so you know, I ain't told Steven
and basically I just you know, told him I didn't
wanna do it anymore, not the ws W. And plus
I was so out of shape, man, it it w
It wasn't fair to the fans even see me looking
like that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
You know. Yeah, probably not a limit you wanted to
at that point to just to have people say.

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
Right right to what you were. It wasn't at all. Man.

Speaker 1 (01:20:30):
What'd you do right after that? As far as uh,
you work indies during that time or did you?

Speaker 2 (01:20:36):
Just pretty much after that, I didn't do anything for
a while. And then I once I lost that weight
and got sure, I start going back to Japan. Matter
of fact, I said, with Japan for a whole year
any way back. Japan has started working with them again,
matter of in fact, and I'm going back up too much.

Speaker 1 (01:20:53):
What are you who are you working with there?

Speaker 2 (01:20:56):
They got some new organization nowt Now that I'm going
back to they got something something spent off from Big Japan.
They got now someb lee. I'm gonna go back over
there and then work with them and also train. I
stayed there for a while. I usually go like a
month ahead of time ago. I like to go train
over whatever them because they teach you moves you've never
seen before. They hurt, but they teach your moves you
never seen before.

Speaker 1 (01:21:16):
Now, what about a name change for you know, because
I mean obviously w W W owns the Ahmed Johnson's name.
He can't use that, which hurts a lot of guys. Yeah,
uh big ts. Yeah, how do you feel about that
having to go to that name? Considering that everybody knows
you're amored? I mean, do you think it's gonna hurt you?

Speaker 2 (01:21:34):
Well, no, It's funny like the fans and even on
the Indies and in Japan regard what they call when
they started a chant, oh man, oh man. I mean,
I don't come out of a lot man, But that's
what they change anyway, So it doesn't make a difference. Yeah,
I mean you can't you know, I can't get in
trouble because the fans are yelling at uh.

Speaker 1 (01:21:52):
You also were part of the you gotta part in
the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:21:55):
Uh done five movies, so five moves. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
Well the one I guess that uh stands up more
so from what we heard is the one we played.
Uh Sugar Nate, Yeah, how did you get that?

Speaker 2 (01:22:05):
And I'm the guy and I've been I've done Walker
has Ranger with he was one of the directors of
that one, and I did Walker for him. And he
called me and said he needed a Sugar Knight and
he comes, I knew about him. I said, I know
quite a bit about him. And Sugars got to shoot
too him and Hammer and you know, he said, I

(01:22:29):
don't talked to him, got the care together and I
betrayed him and he thought of a great job. M
you know, and he's just sug Night and Sugar Knight
brother just the you know, king of the gangs. Basically,
now you.

Speaker 1 (01:22:45):
Did you have acting lessons at that point, I mean
besides from what you did sing the ww I mean no, no,
and then you took to it, you felt fine and everything.

Speaker 2 (01:22:54):
Well, I've done the movie before that. I do point
Man with Execution and Walker and this and we got
another than that. Party got in a movie called cons
that's coming out.

Speaker 1 (01:23:05):
Cons.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
Yeah, me and Michael Clark Duncan, the big guy in
the Green Mind. Yeah, we're doing a movie called Cons
Come up here soon where we play brothers. Okay, we
should go real well because I mean, you see it together,
you would think we were Trians, and I think we
were brothers. You're a big dude.

Speaker 1 (01:23:19):
You're looking to get more into doing movies obviously.

Speaker 2 (01:23:21):
I mean, if they come along, fine, If I'm not
gonna go out looking for them, you know what I mean.
Right now, I'm gonna try to get back in the ring,
but you know, they come along, they come along.

Speaker 1 (01:23:34):
Definitely wanted to talk about racism in wrestling. A lot
of what a lot of African American wrestlers have said
that there's underlining racism and not even so on theoing
racism throughout it. Any times where you felt that you
blatantly or were a victim of that that definitely affected

(01:23:57):
your career. People said stuff about you.

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
Yeah, on one point, I mean when I first got
up there, at one point, I was the only black
guy there and it kind of felt weird. You know,
I never into a sport room, you know, it was
a black guy there. And then you gotta r take
a look at this. I mean, it took 'em to
ninety seven to crown the first black champion. Nineteen ninety seven. Really,
I'm on, how far have we come? But I don't

(01:24:23):
know who's behind it or who's doing But yeah, I
mean I I I I know that's racistm and racism
every sports right there. Where you go. You know, you
go to the football locker room and you will probably feel,
you know, being a white guy, yeah, out of place.
And there's racism. I mean, when people are racism, you
gotta remember that's two way street. People always make it
like the white people, you know, and they're racing black.
And I heard somebody say on TV, though black people

(01:24:47):
can't be racist, only white people. How does that work?
But uh, and and in wrestling, I don't know where
it came from. I mean even when I got there,
somebody was saying, oh man, you watch out, you know
for ends and then he's racist. And but I tell
people all the time, Evince was a race whatever. I
cannot testify to that. The man did everything he said

(01:25:10):
he was gonna do to me. And I'm not saying
it because I was the first black champion I'm telling
you the God under truth. The man did everything he
said he was gonna do. He kept his word to me.
And you know that's all you can judge a man
for how he treats you. Now what any way he
treated the other black guys or treated the other white guy,
I don't know. I can tell you what he did me.

(01:25:31):
And he treated me like gold Man.

Speaker 1 (01:25:34):
M Oh, what you said was your best match that
you felt you had throughout your career, the one would study.

Speaker 2 (01:25:42):
What I enjoyed the most was me and Invader, Kay
and Owen. When Owen jumped off the top rope and
got Vader told him, fore, I got it so funny.
We would sit down and men in Vader been up
the road together. We roomed together, and he told me.
Finally walked there and there was at versus Vader on
a card and Rader said, and tell me, brother, he said,

(01:26:06):
when we go out there, he said, get ready cause
I'm gonna hit you hard. And I'm like, you know,
I hit you back hard. But I thought he was joking. Shit,
He wasn't joking, brother. First cloth line shot me off.
He hit me sodium hard. I went off my feet
and wasn't even trying to go off my feet and
I'm like, oh, it's not kind of a party. And
so we basically had a shooting mat But it was enjoyable.

(01:26:29):
It was really enjoyable. Now on the match that I
really really appreciated and an and to me it was
one of the best matches. Was me interph and Quake.
I mean we went for almost I think they say
thirty five to forty minutes, but we just I didn't
think I could go that long, you know, being the
big as I was three and thirty pounds, but we
went man and like I said, he he basically carried me.
I'll be honest, but I mean it was a hell

(01:26:52):
of a match.

Speaker 1 (01:26:54):
Uh well, would you said it was some of your
well W a match that you just didn't enjoy or
uh more, a bigger match, something that was WW something
that was more built up that just didn't live up
or was extremely disappointing to you. Mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (01:27:14):
I had to say a couple of matches with the
nation didn't didn't feel right. They didn't go good for
whatever reasons, they just didn't just didn't didn't feel right.
Wellther on my part of that part, I mean some
of them just didn't feel right. People love to see them,
but I mean, as far as you know, really getting

(01:27:36):
down and dirty, I didn't A couple of them I
didn't enjoy.

Speaker 1 (01:27:40):
There was another story that came out in the indie,
indie world of wrestling. There was a story I don't think.
I think it happened several years ago, four or five,
six years ago. Well, you were supposed to be working
for an independent promoter named Dennis Carluzzo. And what happened,

(01:28:00):
according to them, was that they went to pick you up.
You this is there. So I complained that you didn't
have a uh, I think a limo or something to
pick up pick you up, something something along those lines.
They complained about the transportation, and you came to the show,
you refused to go to the show. You stayed in

(01:28:23):
your hotel room. And Carluso about the no show at
his show, stated in the ring that Ahmad's here, he's arrogant,
he's full of himself, he doesn't want to come to
the show for the fans. Uh, and that he's and
and gave out your room number and your hope and
your uh what do you know about that story? He
gave your phone onum.

Speaker 2 (01:28:45):
I don't know who even I never mention jerk, but
I'm put my foot in the ass.

Speaker 1 (01:28:48):
He actually passed away, so this.

Speaker 2 (01:28:51):
Yea anyway, this dude, what happened was he it was
fifteen hundred dollar. I'm gona tell you what the mount
anything was. And he flew me down on the phone.
I specifically said, I have my money when you picked
me up, Cause you guys, don't anybody in the business.

(01:29:12):
You know how the business goes. Some people get your
to do a match, and now oh we don't have
a no, no, no, I don't play that. Have my money,
you pick me up? So they picked me up. No envelope,
no money, thirt your hotel room. And I stick told
the guy that dropped me off. I was like telling
him when he come picked me up, have my money,
otherwise I'm not going. I said, I'm a type person.
I say, I don't give a uh, that's just the damn.

(01:29:34):
I'll get back on the plane right now, go back home.
And I guess they thought I was bluffing. The guy
can't pick me up? And I said, you got some money?
He said no, you know, he didn't give me any
You know, the envelope in me. I said, well, I'm
not going. I'm not going to the show, and she
paid me first, and I was like, uh oh, okay,
well i'm'na come back and talk to him. And I
was like, yeah, screw this. I talked to this guy
three or four times about having my money up front.

(01:29:57):
He didn't have it. I didn't go to the show.
I matter of fact make reservations that night to go
back home. And yeah, then I heard that he gave
up my room number and phone number and all that crap.

Speaker 1 (01:30:09):
In the middle of the ring. Yeah, to totally just
bring down your whole character.

Speaker 2 (01:30:12):
Yeah. Yeah. So I got back on a plane, went
back home, and that's that's the only thing that happened.
I mean, you've never heard that stuffing that one guy
that I ever did a show, because everybody else has
always had the money like they said they would.

Speaker 1 (01:30:27):
You know, I do have one more story about that. Okay.
There was another thing that came up, an autograph signing
you did Lane Dy eight. I think it was I
guess when you're in between w CW and and you're
leaving WW, you agreed this is according to them, you

(01:30:49):
agreed to a certain amount of money. You showed up
at the show, you wanted more, and what happened was
I think they they had to pay more because you
were there ready, and you ended up uh something about

(01:31:10):
one of the guys that booked you or whatever you
you bed mount them on the phone, said you were
gonna kill him if you saw him. This, that, and
the other one of the promoters that had to there
any recollection recollection of that, bro.

Speaker 3 (01:31:22):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
I've never held anybody up for but I mean never
after more money. I mean when you tell me in
a certain amount and I agreed through it that that's
all I want. Now, if I had got there and
he didn't have all the minders and I might have
gotten mad about that, but no, I never never did that. Man. Okay,
So I don't know what that is or where it

(01:31:43):
came from to my impone killing.

Speaker 1 (01:31:45):
One of the promoters you supposedly, according to them, you
called them up on the phone and threatened them and
stuff like that. I don't know if it was after
the fact or so whatever, but basically that you threatened
the promoter.

Speaker 2 (01:31:58):
I don't either get threat If I wanna go do it,
I'm gonna do something I'm just gonna do it. I mean,
anybody from the streets or anybody didn't know has been
about fighting. Wanna tell you the first thing you do,
I'm not gonn announce you. Don't come to get you.
And if I'm gonna we're gonna fight, I'm not gonna
tell you I can fight. I'm gonna try to get
the first lick in, so I'm gonna keep it quiet
so i canna steal you. And so that's not even
my style to announce it you I'm coming and I'm

(01:32:21):
gonna kill you. You know I'm I'm no. If I'm
gonna do something, I'm gonna do it, then I don't
want you to know I'm gonna do it. But no,
I don't. I don't recall that. I've never done nothing
like that. I guess. Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:32:34):
Something to bring up also is uh uh steroids in wrestling.

Speaker 2 (01:32:42):
A lot.

Speaker 1 (01:32:43):
That's another thing that people have always said, is that
it's obviously on steroids and this, that and the other.
And if you wanna clear up anything or anything you
wanna say about that.

Speaker 2 (01:32:54):
No, first of all, Uh, as far as i'm all,
always been a very well built person, I mean always
been and uh as far as story in the business go,
I'm not saying. And when I was in college I
used steroids, and as far as store and the business go.
I to sit here and say, hey, the boys don't

(01:33:16):
own 'em would be up straight out lie. Yeah, it's
in the businesses in football and baseball. As you will see,
it's in basically any sports. You you get sports, hempant
drugs are everywhere, and you know, and to sit here
and say, you know, they're not in the business, that
wouldn't be telling the truth. Yeah, they're in the business.
They're there. Y're in w They're in WSW, they're in TNA,

(01:33:39):
they're in NFL, oh everywhere else.

Speaker 1 (01:33:42):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:33:42):
You look, have you have you used them in your
crew and wrestling?

Speaker 1 (01:33:46):
Not.

Speaker 2 (01:33:46):
I didn't have to use them, and rast I was
just a monster anyway, But in college I used to
in college.

Speaker 1 (01:33:51):
Yeah. Also, we uh you were telling us a story
about a daughter. Will you just found out you you have?

Speaker 2 (01:34:00):
Oh? Yeah, yeah. I I did a interview on the
internet with uh. I came think of the guy's name,
but then he called me after I had done an interview.
He called him back the next day and say, there's
uh a young lady in Canada named Amanda. You know,
tryna find she you're her you know her dad and
for law was freaked out by her. I got no

(01:34:20):
kid in you Ain Canada. Somebody's you know, doing the
mm gimmick thing on me. But then come to find I. Yeah,
l lady mess wht when I was in school named Tina,
donn you know, I didn't know she was pregnant, but
she got pregnant and then she had a daughter named Amanda.
So yeah, I have ah uh a big beautiful daughter
up in Canada.

Speaker 1 (01:34:41):
And how old is she? Did?

Speaker 2 (01:34:43):
I think she's I wanna say twenty at twenty one.
And she's in college up there in Canada right now.
And so she contacted me on the phone and really
freaked me out and eat memb me some pictures stuff
and just a a very beautiful, attractive girl, this very
and I'm just something so glad that she's in college
and you know, made I haven't mannered yet personally, but

(01:35:05):
I plan on making that trip real soon.

Speaker 1 (01:35:11):
Would you uh I if the ww uh cold or
you call them or uh, how much do you wanna
go back? Or what's your thoughts?

Speaker 2 (01:35:21):
Right now? I'm completely ready to go back though. And
one of the reason I wanna go back is because,
I mean, were not two b own horn. I'm not.
I'm not certain people who think I amvent at wrestling
or or whatever they they say on their interviews. But
one of the reason I wanna go back is cause
one thing I don't you, I have never seen since

(01:35:42):
I left is that intensity I had. And the fans
love my intensity. They that's what carried I mean them
some of my mob and carry meal was the fact
I was so intense. You don't see it anymore. I mean,
you see wrestler's trying to be intense, but you can
out and tell us all it's nothing real about it.

Speaker 3 (01:36:02):
Mm.

Speaker 2 (01:36:02):
You know you got n the guys coming out and
and you know, fire shooting up behind 'em and trying
like they're all you know, intensively. That's something that you
can't buy. That's something that either a person has it
or they don't have it. Like you know, rast and charisma.
There's certain people who are just agile and crimp, very
c charismatic like you Sean and uh Booker t and

(01:36:24):
people like that. They just they got that talent or whatever.
Just athlete and c and hance charisma, and then you got,
like I said, the intensity factor, which is gone. There's
no monsters anymore. Not saying that I was a monster.
I hope I wouldn't. Maybe I was. I don't know.
You guys know better than I do, But I mean
that intensity is it's not something you can buy. It's
something that you you have to be gro you have
to be raised with and either you got it or

(01:36:45):
you don't. And like I said, I've had guys, the
wrestlers come and tell me. Man, I'm telling right now. Man,
I got scared just watching you walk through the ring
cause you're so intense. And if you look back at
all my takes, all the interviews, all the mattress, you
will never see me smile on now once. Have you
ever seen me smile on TV? And small? Now? I
do my piece for myself, but the intensity is still

(01:37:08):
in there.

Speaker 1 (01:37:10):
Do you think you can if you went back, that
you can perform at the level that you were?

Speaker 2 (01:37:14):
Well, yeah, I've been doing some indie stuff with d
v Ray. You know, he got his own federation going
on in Houston doing stuff for him and man it's weird,
but I we was out, you know, with my friend
the Dmax played for the Texans and we were training
with him. And it's funny. My vertical is higher than

(01:37:34):
it was when I played with Downland Cowboy my forty
times even faster now than Dollar Cowboy will run like
a five to three now he can I can hit
five flat almost four to nine. And my bench press
is up by almost sixty pounds than it was back
in the day. I don't get it. Do you mind?

Speaker 1 (01:37:54):
Tell him how old you are?

Speaker 2 (01:37:57):
How old you thinking?

Speaker 1 (01:37:59):
Well, when I I would have said about mid thirties.

Speaker 2 (01:38:02):
You're right, mkay, You're right, And that's what I'm saying.
So he's still young. I mean, it's still yeah, only
I need to make a comeback, only in age. But yeah,
my my, that's what's funny about it. I'm hearing in
my mid thirties and I'm faster and can jump higher
and stronger than I was when I was in my
teen in the twenties. And I don't I understand that.

(01:38:24):
I thought, that's what you know, your good days, That's
why God made it. So that's the way it is.

Speaker 1 (01:38:32):
Are you gonna, like I said, you're gonna try to
contact the w or or you have people. I mean,
you're friends with Booker.

Speaker 2 (01:38:38):
Yeah, Well, what I'm gonna do is, well, me and
Booker aren't close to me and Steve okay by no
sorts of imaginations. What I'm gonna try to do is
I'm a I pull on contact events real siller and
just first of all apologizing, you know, for me when
they're not explaining the situation to him. But I mean
he's type person he would understand cause he knew Evince

(01:38:58):
really took time out to get the you know, I
mean Tony nor not imed Johnson, he really. I mean,
I'm can remember some of the shows where he was
walking down the hallway and he called me over and
we sit on the stairs and and just talked, you know.
And but I think he would understand the fact that
I just my problems are my problems and I'll deal
with him. And I don't, you know, wanna tell everybody

(01:39:19):
and you know, make a big fuss over or so
I it's that's my problem, my sister's death. You know,
I see that that was that was my situation to handle.
And you know, I wouldn't have done it any other way.
I know, I'm not regart on. I'm not sorry I
left the way I did. I don't regret leaving the
way I did, because I said, she stayed alive one

(01:39:40):
more week after I left, and I I was glad
I got to spend that last week with her. So
I wouldn't change the thing. I over visited apology. I
would have fanned an apology for where I left, but
I wouldn't change it. I would do it again.

Speaker 1 (01:39:55):
There's one guy in the WW roster that a lot
of people compare to you. I but we'll compare to
you as far as the size of the look. And
Bobby Lashley. If I don't know, if you're not familiar with.

Speaker 2 (01:40:06):
Him, I've seen him wrestle once or twice.

Speaker 1 (01:40:08):
I don't know if he's got the intensity of you,
but I mean the look, the big muscle. You know,
do you think this room for two? I mean, if
he has, I mean he's kind of being pushed kind
of like you were very similar.

Speaker 2 (01:40:24):
I don't you know. Yeah, I think it is because
like you said, it's it's two total different styles. I
mean he doesn't have that intensity. I mean I'm hYP
of person by getting ring, which I think I can
make you bring up your intensity level. But he didn't
have that intensity, and I'm not I don't know the kid.
I only watched him rustle twice. But some of the

(01:40:45):
guys I talked to yesterday were like, it's one of
got matter of fact that worked there. They were here
yesterday and when you're sitting and talked and they were like,
it's funny they hear him talk. It's like his voice
is like a little mouse or something. I'm never running talk.
I don't know, but they say he's like Mike Tyson
or something I've never heard of talk about. I've watched
him rest twice against Booker.

Speaker 1 (01:41:07):
And.

Speaker 2 (01:41:09):
Nintensa is not there. So I don't think our styles
would clash. Our looks to it for our styles wouldn't.
H uh what about it?

Speaker 1 (01:41:18):
I guess you don't feel that teenage would be an
option because of Garrant, right.

Speaker 2 (01:41:21):
So yeah, I don't think you ever would do that.
I mean we we I don't think sure.

Speaker 1 (01:41:29):
If if he stepped aside or he lost power or left,
you would think a book on there.

Speaker 2 (01:41:40):
Maybe mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:41:42):
Maybe quisitional feelings the big time, maybe as much you
want to make.

Speaker 2 (01:41:47):
You well, no, it's it's not that you know I'm
doing indies now. You know, I don't mind, not on.

Speaker 1 (01:41:53):
The grand scale you want to.

Speaker 2 (01:41:54):
Well, it's just I don't know if I like the
all the talent down there. I just their talent is
to me. I'm more of a high flying show, you know,
which I I love doing too. But I mean, I
got a problem with every match is to me, it's
the same. You know, everybody doing high flying stuff. I mean,

(01:42:17):
you gotta make some variety up in there. Man.

Speaker 1 (01:42:22):
Uh, what would be the one guy you would say
you just slid out you've seen you've dealt with in
the business, the one guy you would say you disliked
the most that just totally turned you off the most
that you've ever dealt with.

Speaker 2 (01:42:34):
Steve Wilson, Steve Woster, go on, Steve Wawlson.

Speaker 4 (01:42:40):
So what about the opposite of that, what the person
that you've worked with splot out impressed you completely professional,
loved working with, or if you didn't get to work with,
would have loved to.

Speaker 3 (01:42:50):
Work with somebody who just really impressed you as a
wrestler and a.

Speaker 2 (01:42:54):
Professional undertaker undertakers of most most impressed. But I mean guys,
I mean the roy had been vinced forever. He's a
god into business and he's off. I mean outside of that, Yeah,
he's the cool and the coolest dude you'rre on me mm,

(01:43:14):
I mean, you're one of the coolest guys you're ever
going to meet in life. Just take her well.

Speaker 1 (01:43:19):
I think while you were in the W I think
during the beginning of your career. Also, I think you
were there a little bit with uh Ultimate war Yeah. Yeah,
A lot of people have stories about him. What did
you see any weird rather he behavior by him or no.

Speaker 2 (01:43:33):
He He's always spoke to me, always treated me good.
I mean, once again, it's like the the stuff you
hear about Vincement. Man. I mean, I can't send a
light to you and say that you know they've ever
done anything wrong Like I mean, I'm not saying they're angels.
I'm sure you know they've they've had their running with people.
But I said, all I can judge you fourth way

(01:43:53):
you treat me, and Warrior always treated me good. I
mean he was always cool to me, talk to matter
of fact me, and knew why he's sat in the
locker room and just you know, he kind of gave
me to run down a few things about you know him,
you know, l not likeing Vince and stuff like that.
But once again, I couldn't slide with him him there
either cause Vince always treated me good. He's kept every

(01:44:15):
word he has ever pray. Everything's there from me. And
I said he even paid me more money than he
said he was gonna pay me. So I mean he's
kept his word with me. So I mean, Vince's is
a good man in my book, and warriors a good
man in my book. He's always treated me good, So
I mean he kept He was isolated, don't get me wrong.
I mean he had to have his own dressing room
and all that, you know, but that's so much as

(01:44:38):
you created a.

Speaker 1 (01:44:39):
Couple things are just gonna throw out there that give
your thoughts on him. Uh prett Hart, I.

Speaker 2 (01:44:45):
Like br I mean I don't. I we never really conversated.
I don't know him, not far as say, personally, but
I mean, as far as it's been passing good guy,
Vince Roussa. I liked Yountrodusa, enjoy him big time. I man,
I thought he was great. I thought he was one

(01:45:06):
of the if not the best, one of the best
angle makers in the world. And here shirt wrestling. I
couldn't believe when he left the w F. I mean, man,
he I mean he had that show of rock and rolling.

Speaker 1 (01:45:19):
M Uh did you work at all with Eric Bischoff
or was he not there?

Speaker 2 (01:45:24):
Yeah? He was there when I was there, Okay, but
I he, like I said, when I got there, Eric
was just coming back and the boys hand control, so
I I really never got to see his work.

Speaker 1 (01:45:37):
I guess we're pretty much just gonna head to the
end here. If you have anything you wanna say to
your fans that may not hi, h may think things
about you that maybe you've wanna clear up in the
next five minutes. Uh, did anything you wanna say to
your fans?

Speaker 2 (01:45:52):
Well, you know, only thing I would say, man said.
I'm not one for begging or than that. Believe what
you wanna believe. I mean, everybody got their own mind.
Everybody got their own opinions, and I'm not here to
persuade you one way or together. And if you wanna
believe the internet rumors, didn't believe 'em. I mean. Also
on the internet it says that I was killed and

(01:46:13):
one site I was killed in a car accident. Another
site said I was killed in the shootout, and another
site said that, like today, I'm in hospital on dialysis.
So I believe what you wanna believe. If you wanna
believe that I rose from the dead, here I am.
You know you don't wanna believe all the crap they
say about me on the internet. Believe it. I mean

(01:46:34):
I think that you know you, you know, we talked
on the phone and you got to me. Mean, you
got your opinions, you know, and I'm sure you don't
believe in that crap on in it now.

Speaker 1 (01:46:44):
And I didn't wanna say just because of the the
promoters like Carlos who has passed away now and the
other one with the other autograph signing. Uh, when we
contact you for this shoot and the autograph signing and stuff,
you've been nothing but professional and lived up to every
everything and that we had asked. And I think we've
done the same field. So yes, say that, you know,

(01:47:05):
to anybody who sees this who may be nervous about
fucking you on anything.

Speaker 2 (01:47:09):
Right thinking about it is, brother, I'm gonna treat you
where you treat me. You bullshit me, I'm gonna bullshit
your back, or if I think you're a bullshit first
of all, I'm not gonna come down and need to
even operate our art associate with you. But I mean,
if you keep your word with me, I'll keep word
with you. We come to an agreement like we did
come to grooming the phone. Hey, that's what really came to.
You held your in the barging up and I told
you like, oh, yes, I'm standing in my room. You

(01:47:31):
invite me down two or three time to come downstairs,
and I don't. Well, I'm not gonna do that because
you paid me to be here, and you pay me
for you know, certain things, and so I'm gonna stay
apparing toil you tell me, you know, sure it's cool
to going.

Speaker 1 (01:47:42):
Down and you're a class act the whole time. So
we appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (01:47:46):
But that's that's just it. To the fans. I mean,
I love my fans. And for the ones out there
that I want to bleaed the crazy shit on the internet,
that's what you wish to bleed, and so be it.

Speaker 1 (01:47:58):
Thank you Alemen, thank you m

Speaker 2 (01:48:07):
Uh

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