🎤 "David Crockett Chaos: Shoots on JCP & WCW's Rise & Fall From the Inside"

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another edition of the RF Video Shoot Interview series.
It is an honor and privilege to be sitting here
with David Crockett. Thank you for being here today with us.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Oh, you're welcome.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hopefully had an easy flight in.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Wasn't bad, really wasn't bad at all.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
You were, you know, in a wrestling family growing up.
Let's talk about the wrestling business and what it was
like for you and your first memories of what your
father did for a living.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Well, as far as my parents ran restaurants and then
they also he had the wrestling business or entertainment business,
because we did more than just wrestling. And so the
only time I would get to see him was, let's
say Saturdays, if I went to the restaurant with him,

(00:44):
or if I went to Lexington or High Point, you know,
Saturday night and to the wrestling and you know, as
a kid, he wouldn't allow us in the dressing room
or back there. He was sort of leave us right,
you know, for a while. But you know, you you
think that's a big deal, and you're screaming and yelling
at the wrestlers, and you know, gorgeous George and the

(01:07):
French Angel, and you know those wrestlers and then then
you fall asleep on the way back home.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
How o were you around this period of time?

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Six? Oh wow?

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Okay, so your dad was really involved a lot of
different businesses. He promoted, uh from an understand Harlem Globetrotters, concerts,
roller Derby circuses, all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Box yes, Rock Motown did Clark Caravan of Stars. He
had seventy two dates a year on the Harlem Globe Trotters.
He and Abe Sack Pristine. It was a handshake, wasn't
written down, just a handshake?

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah, what do you think? His favorite business was to
promote what a you wrestling?

Speaker 2 (01:49):
It ended up being wrestling and that was all that
was always the one that made the money, you know,
and he met He had the philosophy, if you're in
the entertainment business, you have to give everything, you know,
because I at one point he had the cast from
My Fair Lady come down to Charlotte and it was

(02:12):
the highest gross ever in the Southeast for a show
like that, and he made one hundred and eighty dollars.
I said, you know why, and he said, because we
are in the entertainment business. We have to provide everything.
You know, in the summertime, he did the summer pops

(02:36):
and theater and none of them ever made money. Never,
they always lost money.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
What led your father even getting into promoting events for
a living when he grew.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Up in Bristol, Tennessee, Virginia. His mother passed away when
he was about six years old, and his father was
a railroad engineer, and to earn money, he would put
out posters for boxing events, uh in in that area.

(03:09):
This this man, he would say, you know, sort of
he would go out and put posters up, you know,
and nail him at that time instead of he didn't
have a stable gun. And eventually through that he uh
grew into He even managed a boxer, you know, a

(03:31):
no name boxer, right, and that got him into boxing,
and you know Joe Lewis, Jack Dempsey. We had pictures
of him at the Brown Derby and you know that
was you know. It also promoted the big bands, Timmy Dorsey,
Glenn Miller. Then he found this thing called wrestling as

(03:53):
I call it, the boxing commission, uh and it was
he we were I should say not we but he
really wanted to live in Greensboro, North Carolina. But Charlotte
and Beckhamburgh County had this regulation and if you wanted
to promote, you had to live in Beckhamburgh County and

(04:16):
they had a boxing and wrestling commission. So he said,
what is this wrestling thing? So I'm Paul because I'm
getting ready to sneeze, see okay, all right? So it started.

(04:42):
He started looking into it, and you know, it was
an offshoot I want to say son of Carneie Wrestling,
but then it then it really wasn't and he said
why not, you know, and it developed into the mainstay

(05:03):
for us, you know, as a family.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
For you growing up around the business, do you have
any defining memories for you for yourself or any favorite
stories from being around wrestlers as you grew up at
a young age, Any favorite wrestlers that stood up Well?

Speaker 2 (05:17):
I remember I was what Dad it was? He picked
up Bolo from the Mecklenburg Hotel that's where all the
wrestlers stayed at one time, and Bolo came out with
his mask and they were driving off, and in this

(05:41):
very serious tone, he turned and said, David, what you're
about to see you will never tell anyone and Bolo
Tom ron Nesto took off his mask and you know, well,

(06:02):
and you know, and still.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
How old were you around this period of time.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Oh, I was still maybe thirteen.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
So that's when he kind of smartened you up to
the business.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
Right, you know. But he never really smartened me up.
He never said, hey, this is this is never ever
even even to the point that when he said, someone
in the family needs to understand wrestling from the wrestler's
point of view. At that time, I was the only
one in the family single. I was an amateur wrestler,

(06:39):
you know, in high school, and I went, why not,
you know, and you know, as Geene and Ole Anderson
who beat the hell out of me, and Johnny Heidelman
who beat the hell out of me, and just about
everybody else. They went, there is a hard way in

(07:00):
an easy way. Which one do you want to do?
And they, of course showed me the hard way first,
and uh, you know it was that first, you know,
coming back and and just just going through the I
guess the the routines dropped, kicking and turnbuckling, being black

(07:21):
and blue all over, and you know, I need help
getting out of bed.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
So as a little kid, did you want to get
into the business as a worker.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
Not really. I you know, I was fascinated by the television.
I was fascinated you know about you know, at w
BT when on Wednesday nights as a cup Scout group,
we you know, go as cup Scouts and screaming, yelling.

(07:52):
I'd watched these, you know, these big cameras moving around
in the interviews and big Bill Ward and Dad sitting
over in the corner, you know. And then at Park Center,
you know, I got to the point that you know,
you start out loading in a ring. Wally Dusick was

(08:13):
the dad's guy that you know, splinters in your hands
and so forth, and you work into selling popcorn at
some places, and magazines and selling tickets and then selling
up and you know, it was it was and plus
you know I I could not make a mistake. None
of us can make a mistake, or the wrath of

(08:36):
dead would come down on us. And finally I asked why.
He said, I can afford some for somebody else to
make a mistake, but not you.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
A lot of pressure.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
I have to make an example out of you.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Is it true that your father didn't really want you
to get into the business.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
Size No, he did not. I was you know everybody
else was in it, but I see I wanted I
always wanted to be in it sort of, you know,
from that that creative point of view, the back room stuff.
I wanted to look at it through the camera lens

(09:15):
and and create that the person's watching watching that show
is they're a front row and you can taste it,
smell it, feel it, have that sweat all over you.
When when Greg Valentine pulls a guy over the rope

(09:38):
and caves his chest in, you know, you can just
hear that error just just come out of his lungs.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
Now, when you were being trained by Gene and Olie,
were you ever discouraged? Did you ever say this might
not be for me, you want to quit the business?

Speaker 2 (09:52):
I couldn't do it, Okay, there was not an option, no, no, no, no,
no no.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
When you trained, I think your wrestling name at the
time was David Finley, Right.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
What led you?

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Uh, I guess to uh to wanting to dream? There's
just that's pretty much.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, you know, somebody indeed to understand you know, uh,
And I pitched about the payoffs. Yeah, started laughing. You're
one of them, you know, and and golly, uh just

(10:29):
understanding that are you really hurt or not? You know
that that you know some of the crazy moves, you know,
you know Bruce Bernard yeah he uh he complimented me. Yeah,
and you know it was at high point TV and

(10:52):
you know I would he said, you you're a classic DIYer.
You know, job guy.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
As far as you know your last name? Why did
you use the Crockett name in the ring? Was it
something that was talked about and you didn't want you
to use the name.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
Uh, it was not talked about. It was just as
to what you're gonna do? You know, he didn't, We
didn't talk about it. It was just right. It could
have been Joe Smith for Alana. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
How long did you train before you actually made your
in ring debut.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
I want to say it felt like a year, you know,
I I it's and at that time, unlike today that
the crowd psychology is is you have to take control

(11:50):
of them, not them, take control of you. You know,
they're and you I mean you look at you know,
I look at it. You know the brup Bernard and
scul Murphy and and and Franco Luvich and uh Homer

(12:11):
Odell and and the Infernos and you know, they didn't
set up everything. It was what and and the Andersons.
You look at those matches, The Anderson's Rock and Roll Express,
Midnight Express, Rick Flair, uh, golly, John Valentine, Greg Valentine,

(12:36):
you know it what you know today it's and if
you miss a sequence, men, you're you're lost. Whereas everything
you know, you knew sort of what the end was.
I said sort of because you know, I even when
I was announcing, you know, it was this isn't what

(12:57):
was supposed to happen, you know, And I realized I
said it after I said it, right, Yeah, you know it,
and it was exciting to me, you know, you know,
I didn't particularly want to announce, but there again, I
was a big fan. You know that a great match,
you know, good matches, you know, no knowing that some

(13:17):
of these guys that go in, you know are job guys,
but you know, watching you know, Greg Valentine beat the
holy hell out of somebody, you know, you're going this
guy's going to get killed. Yeah, you know, and you
have to start laughing about it. Yeah, people get mad
at that's what's happened. I said, he chose it.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
Did any of the boys ever resent you for wanting
to get into the business at all or no, No, okay,
it'd be crazy too. You made your entering debut nineteen
seventy one. I believe you worked, was it, Johnny Hydeman?

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (13:53):
Any memories?

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Oh yeah, I remember some of my high school friends,
unbeknownst to me came and his first time I ever
wrestled in front of Dad and Johnny afterwards said, David,
you hit me so hard with your farm. I've been

(14:17):
hit with billy clubs by police before and have never
been hit that hard. I said, Johnny. Some could have
someone could have shot me, but I wouldn't know it
for a week. You know, it's I was. I was
numb to everything. It was. I was scared to death, right.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Any other names that stick out around this error that
you worked? I mean you were around all the boys,
Gen Anderson, let's that you're yeah, JJ, Dillon JJ was great.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
You know this is the seventies because we'll talk about
Rip Hock, Rip rip Hock, Sweet Hanson and I worked
with with rip some you know. Charlie Fulton was there, right,
Sandy Scott, Yeah, Sandy Sandy and George Uh, Sandy Russelled
Sandy a lot.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
He was a great teacher.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
It's you know, it's just uh yeah, you know the
Homer Odell's and Bruce Bernard and those guys they were
you know yeah, especially Homer, he was nuts. I got
a listen names.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
I mean, there's so many guys that you shared the
locker room. A Jacobs Sonny Fargo, Oh yeah, Abe.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
He loved to eat raw now you wrestle, abe and
he loved rawlings and garlic. So it's like get away
from me, you know. George two Ton, Harris, George Harris,
baby face, you know. Uh George George was was another one,
you know, uh uh he was you know, nice nice guy,

(15:49):
you know he was he he was not one of
those top guys, but he was someone that that you
can depend on. He was, you know, the up and
down guy for you know, for Dad Tinker Todd. Tinker
Todd never wiped himself very well. It was you do him.
And he loved to you know, he said roll up

(16:10):
and he't got that right.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
You have to you know, like a I believe it
was November twenty third, nineteen seventy two. I think you
worked the undercard in Greensboro.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
I believe it was.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
That's the Colisseum. The main event was the Briscos Verst
Story Funk Senior and Junior.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
It was the largest. Senior did a drop kick. Yeah,
I mean the house came down. We all just went
we're in amazement.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
And that was a huge atmosphere too, because that was
like one of the biggest gates for that period of time.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
You pretty much worked under cards a lot and didn't
really go over often. Was that something that your father
was testing you on by making you lose?

Speaker 2 (16:48):
No, you have to learn to lose before you learn
to win. Okay, you have to. You know. The philosophy is,
you cannot be a main event I unless you know
how many light bulbs are in you know, in the
ring lights, because you're lucky not.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
How would you rate yourself as a worker during this
time period.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Average? I mean I could die with the best of them. Yeah,
I knew that I wasn't gonna win, so why not
go and go down and flame? So to speak.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
You worked a little bit with less thatcher as a team.
Was that something that the promotion wanted as a regular
team or is that something the spot of your father
just it just filled the cards.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Was filled the cards just what you wanted.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
After about fifteen months, you got out of the ring.
Do you regret getting out of the ring so soon?

Speaker 2 (17:36):
No? Because I developed asthma.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Was that one of the main reasons why?

Speaker 2 (17:39):
That was the main reason I developed asthma at I'd
never had it before. I was was a runner and
didn't pay attention, and I ended up going to the
hospital and and you know, it just I remember though,
the first time was I had the attack, was I

(18:02):
was wrestling Johnny Heidemann again in Columbia and I had
to go to the hospital. I just could not breathe. Well,
I just didn't know what was going on. You know,
I'd never had asthma in school. I mean I was
a sprinter, you know, and you never thought about asthma. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
After being able to have worked in the ring, how
did that help you from an announcing standpoint.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Uh, it helped me to understand the complexity of the
business and what talent had to go through. That you
had carpenters, let's call them, that were good carpenters, and

(18:52):
you could see it right off that they were Some
people were there for paycheck. Some people knew that they
weren't going to make it to the main event, but
they want to be the best carpenter there. And you
appreciated that that, you know, they they gave you something
to talk about. You wanted to push them. You know,

(19:15):
you had to have elevate that person so the person
coming in could beat them, you know, right, you had
to and and if they were not qualified, I couldn't
fake it, you know that. You know, if it was
a snail, he was a snail.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
There was so much good talent around this or in
the seventies. Gary Hart was through there in the territory.
Ronnie Garvin, right, he was another.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
One that could cave somebody's chest in. Yeah, and he
would just beat these four guys up. I mean Tony
Shavanni and that was about Tony Shavanni and I and
uh the Saturdays we go down to TBS and do
the Saturday show and then Ronnie dressing and drag.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
We'll talk all about that. Oh lord, those are great also, uh,
Abe Jacobs, Gerald Briscoe, Paul Jones, right.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
Paul Paul was a craftsman, you know, he was always
had an agenda.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah, yeah, explain what it meant to the territory in
the seventies when the NBA champion, for example, Dory Funk
Junior would come into mid Atlantic and how are the shows,
if at all, were they promoted to present it differently
because the world champions in town.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Of course, you know the world you know, the world
champion came in and it was all you know in
every at that time territory. Uh, I wanted, you know,
you had to present it like you're gonna you know,
beat the champion. But you know, you had the committee

(20:54):
would dictate, you know, who the champion was and when
and if he would lose, and uh, you know, the
the fox and the brisk goes. You know, I remember
the night that uh Eddie Graham brought Jack Briscoe over

(21:17):
to the house, uh and introduced him to Dad about
you know, making him the champion. You know, Jack was
a you know, an excellent wrestler. He would he did,
you know, it was and nothing against you know Jack,

(21:41):
he his camera presence, He was a great tactician. But
to show evil and he was an evil gay. He
was sadistic, oh I mean in the ring, but getting
that that across on television in some ways, you know, Yeah,

(22:03):
I go back and think putting certain things, how you're
lighting and so forth. And instead of a wide shot,
you come in and because it's his face and the
inflection of his voice is what you have to pay
attention to. It's not the announcer or anybody else around him.

(22:25):
You know that. You know that was a mistake. And
let's call it the old time. You know it was,
you know, keep the announcer in. He was a human
microphone stand.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
Really memories about Luther Lindsay and how the company dealt
with his passing in the ring.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
There again, I was selling tickets and and and and
I couldn't believe it, you know, nobody could you know,
nobody could you know? And what a nice man? You
know that it just happened, you know it. I don't

(23:12):
remember it, you know, happening before as you know, as
a kid, you know, of course you'd see blood and
things like that. But it's good. Is this real? Or
is this? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (23:26):
Once you left the ring, how did your responsibilities in
the business change.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
I got more involved in shooting the television spots, shooting
matches as far as on sixteen millimeter film. Jimmy was
the editor, but he would show me out at some
of the things. You know, he was extremely good at that.
You know, that was his sort of area. You know,

(24:00):
you know that. You know at that time, Johnny Ringley
was my ex brother in law, was, you know, sort
of the favorite person. He had to get the gab
and you know that. And Jimmy was Jimmy. Didn't Jimmy
just you know those those interviews that that we did
on Wednesdays, you know we I mean it was like

(24:25):
a sausage factor. We crank him out on sixteen millimeters.
He'd cut them, send them to the sessions I would announce,
you know, or the interview wrestlers, and as I'd do it,
I'd thought, you know, he'd push in and let him go.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
Now, when your father passed away I believe nineteen seventy two,
how did that change the way Crockett Promotions was run?
And how hard was it to you personally and professionally
to overcome his loss?

Speaker 2 (24:52):
Oh, to this day, I you regret not saying things
you wanted to say that you know, you wish that

(25:12):
you would realize that, you know, when he'd say, hey,
let's go, let's go out to the lake house, and
I've got this thing to do and you don't do it, man,
And thinking about the business was furthest thing from my mind.
It was, you know, I remember Jackie and I in

(25:34):
the emergency room with him, that we were st standing
guard there, you know, and the nurses come in. He'd say,
you know, these are my two sons. And he didn't
make that seventy two hours, you know, and he and

(25:56):
they didn't want us to go up up to the
I see you. Uh And he and mom, you know,
Mom said he was talking about going to Duke and
the you know, the rice diet there, and you know,
it's just it happened. Now as far as the company,

(26:16):
dead run the whole company him mom, out of his
shirt pocket, and he just he knew everything. People names, numbers.
When he was gone. That was it.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
Why was Johnah tapped ahead the company instead of yourself
or your brother?

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Told not me? Okay, not me.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
You didn't want that responsibility?

Speaker 2 (26:39):
No, it just I was I was last one in.
I was the last one. I mean, Johnny was the first.
And he, you know, he had the relationship with a
lot of the you know, the boys, the Boys and
the other promotions too. We were still doing the globe
Trotters and so forth, and Jimmy was an introvert. He

(27:05):
had somewhat of a relationship to me, right, and you know,
Johnny was sut of the natural choice John. You know,
there was we lived eleven eleven, eiast More had Johnny
sat I had an office off. Jimmy was in another

(27:25):
office group next door working on the film, so he
was over there constantly. H yeah. Later we knew it
was a mistake, you know. Yeah, Johnny wouldn't keep his
dipstick and.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
It's pretty pretty commonology was having an affair.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
Right, so he was my best man in my wedding.
Didn't show up. Wow.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, well, so at that point Jim Junior was put
in charge of not you were you No?

Speaker 2 (27:58):
Okay, yeah, no that that's no okay, no, no, no,
you can only have one boss, Okay, it's a dictatorship.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
How important was George Scott to rebuilding the midd Atlantic territory?
He was, Oh he was key figer, Yeah, key figure.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
Yeah, definitely. He had the relationship with the wrestlers that
that you know, the super Destroyer he had with with
John Valentine. He had all these guys coming in and
then you know, Rick Claire came in as rambling Rick

(28:33):
as Rhodes.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
I'm gonna talk about Rick coming up all of it.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yep. Yeah, boy, he was a dope boy.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
How would you compare a Yeah, he was heavy set
when he first came in. Oh yeah, I've seen the
pictures on the gas.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
What what led to you becoming a regular announcer for
the company. Was that something that you just fit into perfectly?

Speaker 2 (28:50):
No? No, no, no, uh it. Tom Miller was the
announcer of w r A all TV DR Tom R
Truck and Tom. He was on w BT late night
when they turned turned their antennas up and down the

(29:11):
East Coast and Tom, uh Tom, he showed up drunk
one at the and we go we came having him
on here, and so I lost the flip of the coin,
and so I had to announce that's it was either
Jimmy or I. And you know, I lost, and then

(29:32):
I I you know, I wasn't excited about it, or
you know, I didn't. I didn't, but you do it,
you know. And but then too at that sort of
in that whole process, Jim Goodman, who uh took over

(29:57):
the station after his grandfather's death, a w r L.
He said, you know, you guys need to figure something
out here that you're you're taking up three days my
whole station, and we can make money on one offs,
a lot more money than with you, so you need
to look at Well that was my trigger. You know.

(30:19):
I started, you know, everything from learning working at the camera,
down the tape room, audio switcher, uh, Cayron machine, all that,
and then eventually we bought a an evangelist truck out

(30:40):
of Rockingham, North Carolina, gutted it. Emerson Lawson was my
head engineer. He won an Emmy at the Winter Olympics
in Lake Placid for hockey. And I learned how to
thumb's fingers, cutting, splicing cable and running it. Well, you

(31:05):
did it all, learned it the hard way.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
How would you compare Jim to Jim Junior as far
as running the company? How would you compare them?

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Oh? Dad was more outgoing. Okay that Dad had that
that charisma, that that likability. Uh, he could tear down
that wall, you know that. Uh. The business that we

(31:32):
were in was socially unacceptable to to the hierarchy in Charlotte.
But if they wanted something, let's say the Shriner's circus
or festival in the park or the empty stocking fund.
They would come to him. Yeah, but you know I'd

(31:52):
ask those crazy things, Well, Dad, why aren't you a
member of country club? They're not gonna let us in.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
And because they found behind the business, right.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
It was we're in the entertainment business.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Members of working with some of the following announcers, and
we're going to talk about some of these talents coming
up to Bob Kydle.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
Oh it's great, still is still has wonderful me. I
learned so much from Bob. He's was so calm and
when I'd go off on tangents and you know, screaming it,
you know, you know, being a fan. He was that.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
Tony Siani. Did you like working with Tony?

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Oh yeah, Tony, Tony the kid, you know, we had
to grow mustache, looked older because see he was he
was the the announcer for my sister's baseball team, you know,
Single A in Greensboro, and we need and I said,
we've got to do something here and put cause of
trucking time and everything, and Tony jumped in the chance.

(32:53):
And you know, Tony's doing.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Baseball again.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
Baseball but he's also doing uh University of Georgia. Okay,
oh yes, yeah, it's pretty neat. He's happy.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
Big billboard.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Bill. Yeah, I I really didn't work with Bill a lot.
You know, he was Bill was there when I was
a kid. You know, I mean screaming and yelling, throwing
things at the wrestlers. Uh. Yeah, you know it's a
big billboard. Jim Ross, Jim Ross, Jim, Jim and I.

(33:28):
He was at the mid Atlantic Wrestling Gathering I guess
in Charlotte last last year, and uh, it's was saw
that peace. You know, I resented for the longest time.

(33:48):
Jimmy was a mark. You know with the with the
UH buying Mid South Wrestling, he didn't do his you know,
we due diligence, and all of a sudden that was
our you know, all these bills came up and went,
oh work, well, but it is what happened. When Jim
was looking out for Jim, we should have looked out

(34:10):
for ourselves.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
Right, you're talking about when the happened.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
Well before the buyout. This was when we bought took
over Mid South Wrestling. We inherited all their debt, which
no one realized how much debt there was, you know,
and we should have done done the due diligence and
you know, dictatorship and we don't need to do that.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
We'll talk about the sale coming up to as well.
What was your approach to announcing? How did you approach it?
I was a fan, okay, so it was really easy.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
I didn't want to know anything about what's going to happen.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
Wow, So you didn't know the finishes ahead of time.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
I could guess, but I did not know. Now when
I was directing, it was the only and even Jackie,
Jackie was a great camera. My younger brother. Yeah, one
man Gang said, you know, talking about Jackie, he said,
you know, he had all that. He said, you know,

(35:12):
come this way and so forth. Jackie would take the
hit to get the shot, and and all I had
to say at that time when I was directing, Jackie
and everybody else knew something was going to happen, and
you know, so they were all their piece and cues,
but Jackie knew what did they do?

Speaker 1 (35:31):
You're pretty well known for being very rambunctious and cheering
on the baby faces. What brought that on as opposed
to just calling the moves?

Speaker 2 (35:39):
It's my head to be a cheerleader. Yeah, I got
a lot of hate mail. I mean, I forget who
you know when we had who was it?

Speaker 1 (35:46):
I knew Dave Meltzer and the wrestling Meltzer.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
I hated my guts.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
He said, I think you were voted like the worst
wresting announcer in three years in a row or something.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
Oh yeah, yeah, he he Well, you know, hey, I
gave him something to talk about, didn't I.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
Yeah, what's the key to being a good interviewer and
making sure that the star you're on screen with gets
a spotlight?

Speaker 2 (36:09):
I think you really need to talk to Gene Oakland
because Gene could have a good interview with a broomstick.
You know, he knew how to draw that that that
information out of someone that did not know how to talk.
And I still, you know he is, he's one of

(36:31):
one of the best. Really is early memories of Rick Flair, Ramblin,
rickets Rose Pillsbury, Doboy. You know that they brought him in.
He looked like somebody just plugged him into an air tank.
And yeah, you know it, he was he was something
and then he he just it was it in his

(36:56):
element and he just started to go and the sky
was the limit.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
You knew right away that he had the effector.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Well, yes, and two everyone else did because if you
look at what we did, we put him. You know,
he was part of the Minnesota Wrecking Crew, so he
was wrestling against Tom top talent. If he made a mistake,
he paid for it. He would, you know they and

(37:28):
he would tell you he got whacked. Yeah, you learned
the hard way. And and the camera loved him, and
it was he started just having having fun and just
it's but that was Rick. I mean it still is Rick.

(37:49):
You know, it was that that person that was all
of a sudden pulled out of this. This other person
went to a prep school. You know Rick went to
a prep school, and you know his parents and were
his parents are great, but you know Rick was you know,

(38:10):
they were conservative and Rick had then all of a sudden,
you know, it's like you just open him up to
the chocolate factory and.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Said, eat all you want, right, memories of a young
Roddy paper Oh my opinion, one of the best heels
in the business, best talkers.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
But you get Rick and Roddy and you just go, well,
forget about this minute or thirty seconds or two minutes,
they're just going to go, you know. And Roddy though,
I'll ride down the road with him. I would be
driving and he would be writing and reading and listening

(38:49):
to the radio comment terry and just writing these things
down just for his promos and stuff, well promos, just information,
just you know, put him and put him in the
back of his He would file them away. So when
he'd start talking something, an announcer or somebody else would
say something, and here it just triggers something, you know.

(39:10):
And he and Rick were the same way. They did
not rehearse. It was it's let's.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
Go, you know.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
And you do not see very many people in television
today broadcasting that can do that, that can keep the
audience's attention for so long. And their knowledge base his
was just phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
Both of them had books and they told some pretty
insane stories about partying during the time period. Any crazy
nights where you might have joined them at all.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
I was the fly on the wall, you know, Rick
and Roddy and all of them. Would you know, if
we were going to let's say Norfolk, Virginia or Baltimore,
you know, and we were on a TV in the
in the mornings, you know that six oh five, Uh,
that night they would say, all right, we're going to
be staying at the Marriotte are the omni and the

(40:09):
parties and this, you know? And oh it was and
then Rick. You know, for a while they rented a
motor home and Don Kernodle was the driver and it
was a house of ill repute on Wins.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
Were you ever worried that some of the crazy behavior
the boys would come out and the uh maybe embarrassed
the company at all?

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Or no, it was not me. I mean, you know
it was right. They were having fun. Now they would
get in fights with people in bars, you know, and
and that was a guy that just trying to protect

(40:51):
the business and stuff. Well, but it was they They
would keep on pushing. You're you're not so tough, or
you know, it's it's like a meeting. Let me finish
and I will sign an autograph. But you know at
that some point now you have to stand up for yourself.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
Memories of the plane crash in seventy five very.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
Few because I had a horrible praying concussion. I I
do remember one of the engines cutting off. I know
we were near u Lumberto, North Carolina to this day,
I don't know why we didn't. I know the airstrips.

(41:35):
They could have diverted over to Florence, South Carolina. They
had an airport. I in my mind, I remember going
over the KPE Fair and the other engines sputtering. I
remember a buzzer, saw a light and I just you know,

(41:58):
I was really, as my wife said, messed up.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
How high I got?

Speaker 2 (42:02):
Well?

Speaker 1 (42:03):
Yeah, how high were you guys when it went.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Down on the on approach. Yes, he went right into
a railroad embankment. The FA report said if he hadn't
he he was coming in in Wilmington. Over the there
was a prison camp and he almost hit the water tower.
He pulled it up, it stalled and ran into the

(42:27):
railroad embankment. Uh. They said there was enough fuel in
one of the tanks. If he had switched it, we
would have at least made the clearing of the runway
the dirt area for the pavement, and we didn't.

Speaker 1 (42:44):
How badly were you banged up mentally and physically? You
had the concussion and concussion I had. They didn't know
I shattered several teeth, but they did not know that
they I had a lot of facial glass races, and
a lot of stitching around my mouth and so forth,
and broke my ankle when I they my wife told me,

(43:08):
when they went to get me out of the hospital,
they tried to give me crutches, but my right arm
was still dislocated, and so they.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
Couldn't do that and found that out. And then I
kept on complaining about the pain in my mouth, she said,
And so when we got back to Charlotte, she called
our dentists and he sort of, she said, gingerly opened
me up enough to put up me. And he said,
don't wonder. He's got three teeth that are shattered, and

(43:39):
the nerves are just sort of hanging there so hot
and cold. You know. Yeah, I remember crying, crying on
the on the on the approach to Charlotte, there was
raining and I could not see the runway. I was
crying like a baby.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
From a business standpoint, how did so many talents get
hurt at once? Change the immediate plans and and what
sort of changes were immediately need?

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Honestly, I don't know, because I was six months at least.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
How was the company able to hide the fact that
like baby faces and heels were traveling together on the
plane and not exposed the business. Since it was such
a big story locally at the.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Time, they didn't care about whether they you know, I
mean they knew, you know, the reporters knew. It was just,
you know, wrestling was hot and these these people were hurt.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Were you surprised that Rick actually returns to the ring
after the plane crash, Yes, but that's Rick.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
Rick would not you know, I could not see Rick
not being around wrestling.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
Yeah, it was his life, right, Johnny Valentine. He never
wrestled again.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
No, he was embraces, you know. He had a uh
We sent he and Bob Bruggers to UH Houston to
a back surgery play and they had metal rods put
in their back. John I asked, John, I was saying,
I can't remember. I can't. He said, be glad you don't,
because he said he and I were the last too

(45:11):
taking out of the plane, and he did not realize
that he was paralyzed and waist down. He thought his
legs were hooked under something. He could not get him out,
but he said the fuel smell, he said, he just
be glad you don't remember.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
How long until you got back on another plane. Were
you scared to fly again?

Speaker 2 (45:30):
It was at least a good six months, and oh
you flew again after you know, I flew, and don't
like I said going back to Charlotte. Piedmont Airlines at
the time held a plane and took us back to Charlotte.
And of course I was, as my wife said, I

(45:50):
was drugged to the hill and and minding cried. But
then after I came out, and after that six months,
I want. I knew that I had to learn to

(46:10):
fly again because it just our area was increasing. And
my first flight was to Raleigh. It was the longest
flight of my life. That even the flight attendant came
by and said, are you all right?

Speaker 1 (46:28):
And a lot of anxieties.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Jimmy, Jimmy, but four rose. He said, this is his
first flight after a plane crash. And you need a drink,
I said, I cannot move my hands to get a drink. Well,
I mean it's white knuckle the whole way. Even today,
I can be on a plane and I can I
can even go to sleep, But there's a smell sound

(46:56):
anything like that triggers triggers. I'm up, I start asking
questions and I'm he's always right. There is something that's
not right, and I I have to know. I will
not be quiet until I know what's going on.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
In the late seventies, the Middle Lanic to Middletlantic territory
was on fire. It produced some of the greatest workers
of all time. There's guys in there like Ricky Steamboat,
John Studd, Baron von Rashki, Jimmy Slika, right Orndorf Mass Superstar,
Harley Race. Yeah, Wahoo, he had, Ivan had Murdoch. Any
stories you want to share about some of these guys that.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
Ernie Ladd, Ernie Ladd, you know, I love to talk
to him about his football and and and talking about
he's taking those big hands he is and quacking the
side of a football helmet, you know, the you know monster.
Uh you look at uh Wahoo McDaniels. He had this
huge bag of pills that you know in the in

(47:57):
the spray shoe polys on his head. Then he and
Valentine those matches. Oh, Valentine would say the only time
he was in peace was when he was in the
ring and somebody just beating the hell out of him.
And you look at Valentine and who if they have

(48:18):
one of those ninety minute matches. Their chests are just
all blood and it's just from hitting each other, right,
I mean think about it. You know, no razor play,
It's just they are whacking each other.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
Bobby Duncan, Kembeterra Yeah, Ken Ken, Uh, you know he was.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
You know he he was a weight lifter and and
it blew up, you know, and he tried. You know,
he was one of Iron Gania's guy. It's a nice guy.
You mentioned Bobby Yep, PanAm games right, And when we
turned him hill it was in Dorton and he went

(49:02):
straight out the back door and we never saw him since.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
Wow, why is that?

Speaker 3 (49:08):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (49:08):
It scared the hell out of him. You know people,
you know, because he was the ultimate baby face and
then all of a sudden, you know, we turned him right,
and you know it's you know, they the fans didn't
like him. You know, well you're gonna be hell, You're
gonna be hell.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Right, Memories of Andre when he came into the territory, Oh.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
Andre, you know, a beer in his hand, like like
a baby bottle. Uh. The trips were you know, most
of the guys was a trip. The trip is determined
by a six pack. Andre was by a case yep, yeah,
and he uh in frenchy you know, is placed down
at Ellerby, North Carolina. Uh, Andre was was you know?

(49:52):
He nice man? Yeah, really was.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
While your brother was in charge of the promotion, break
down the rules, you and your other members of the
family played behind the scenes.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
I was, uh operations. I had to do with you know,
part of the time. I we want to do the
baseball I it was my job to renovate the baseball
park at the baseball team here have it going. My
sister Francis took over. Then I went on to create
our television truck and the dubbing machines. We went all

(50:30):
the way up to ESPN or ABC ESPN place and
brought back a truckload of two inch machines. They were
selling for practically nothing because all the stations that time,
we're doing two inch, three quarter inch, half inch. Uh

(50:51):
did that? We had Butcher butcherris lures, fishing mores that
I worked on to go kmart and Ecker Drugs. Then, Uh,
it was I was the Mikey give it to Mikey, uh,
you know, and Jimmy I was in charge of the property.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
The offices, you know, make a you know, we had
Carmel Center. Uh there for a while. I remember, Uh
we had water tower, these things that go off and
I'd have to go over there at three o'clock in
the morning.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
Yeah, I was gonna ask you what was the what
was like a typical week in the life at the offices.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Like, well, you know, thanks really didn't start, you know
until about ten you know, rests doing their workouts and
all that, and uh, in the case if it were
you know at that time, George Scott and uh, you
know their bookie meetings, telling to come in talking about

(51:53):
the TVs. TVs would be uh, you'd have Columbia on
Tuesday night and Raleigh on Tuesday night, Greenville, South Carolina
on Mondays and usually end up going to Greenville on
Monday Tuesday Columbia, and then Wednesday would be Raleigh taping
up there and then when we did our truck Wednesday

(52:17):
nights where we would tape in a high school gym
somewhere I have lights and then come back when we
had saw an umbilical court on the TV truck, plug
it in, have the tape machines inside, rolling next day
doing interviews until they guys had to leave to Norfolk
or those places and then insert the interviews and TVs

(52:43):
and have tapes out that night.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
After George Scott had run its course as booker in
the seventies, Doriyfunk Junior and Ollie Anderson each head turns
booking the territory, talk about why they were hired and
how did they and why didn't they work out long
term as bookers.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
There, Olie, Uh, Dorry was an easy going you know that.
He was not kick him in the ass type. That's
that's why I think you know that. You know you
had to check his pulse if you're still alive? What

(53:20):
what about only one? Uh, he had a lot of
good qualities.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
It was.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
Uh, he was George at the time, right right, Yeah,
he was.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
He was an angry man.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Everybody says that about.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
But the great talent in the ring, but angry man
the see only was still wrestling in the ring. So
was Dorry. George Scott was not. It's a big difference.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
You didn't have to put himself over.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Big difference, that's right. It's not centered around you. Big difference. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
Talk about the process of growing Rick Flair to become
the NW champion and getting other promoters on board with
him being placed at that level easy process.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
It was hard, of course, you know it's it was
hard to get Dorry Funker's champion or Jack Briscoe is champion.
You have to go through, you know, you know the
politics of it. Rick had the physical capability. Rick had
the gift of gab. Uh. He was not a pure wrestler. Uh.

(54:30):
He could wrestle, uh and he could he he could
walk the talk yeah, and he could back it up
and he was he Rick's able, likable guy. And you
had top talent working with him. So when they go
out and someone would ask them a question about it,
and they could honestly say, yes, he's a good talent

(54:53):
or no. You know, we had Ricky Steamboat come in
because Rick saw him and said, I can work with him.
Same thing with Aaron Anderson. He saw him down at
MIT South and he said, set it tape in. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
Talk about where the idea of building the first starcade
came from. That's where I believe your brother and Dusty
started really working together.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
That's right. That was Dusty, Dusty and Jimmy star k Uh.
It was fun. It was fun. You know there are
that's I you know, I enjoyed the trying to through
the lights and the sound and and and shooting it,
and that's what's my time to direct. I did some announcing,

(55:39):
but I said, you know, I didn't want to be there.
I wanted to be in the truck. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
Initial thoughts and memories of Dusty and his creative side.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
Dust Dusty was probably one of the most creative people around.
I saw Dusty, uh, I guess year before last, few
years before last, before he passed away, and and I
went we had to sell the company to to Turner.

(56:09):
I really blamed him for a lot of things that
I shouldn't and we had a long talk and and
I we wouldn't have been where we were as far
as success without Dusty. I just wish that he and
I could have talked more, because I think I could

(56:32):
have helped him more creatively, you know. But it was
sort of a closed shop. It was he and Jimmy,
you know, and and it was hurry up and do it,
Whereas if I had more time, I could have done
a better job. I guess.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
Re members of the very first Star Cheat event itself,
and why do you think it works?

Speaker 2 (56:57):
So well, well, the you know, it was Thanksgiving. Greensboro
was always.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
That was our.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
Culmination of of the That was the big building, you know,
uh in the areas of Virginia and North Carolina, South Carolina,
and so you go Jimmy and Dusty, so you know,
sort of Jimmy, you know, why not close circuit. We

(57:30):
had done boxing closed circuit, you know, and it was
something to you know, events at that time was sort
of uh, you know, we we had a strong area
that he it was like he just television stations were

(57:51):
loyal to us. Fans were definitely loyal to us. I mean, uh,
we could not have done anything without without those fans.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
You know, why do you think your brother trusted Dusty
so much?

Speaker 2 (58:03):
It's easy and Dusty's an easy guy, you know, he Dusty.
You know they're back between that's the woes.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
What did you think of Dusty as a booker and
what were strength and weaknesses from a creative standpoint?

Speaker 2 (58:18):
His strength was his creativity is creativity. I think his weakness.
I think I'd love to have seen Dusty step away
from wrestling and not being the ring. Yeah, I was.
That was one of my next questions.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
A lot of people say he focused way too much
on himself. Do you think that was the case.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
That's always been the case for every booker, that everyone.
I mean, I'm not saying anything. It's Dusty, it's just
natural to do that.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
It's often presented that Dusty spent way too much money
and that kind of helped pave the way for the
end of the company. What what sort of budgets does.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
He have to work with? Budget? Was there a budget?
That's a big question. Yeh, big question, right? Uh, that
was I guess that was one of my I couldn't understand,
you know, the Great American Bash, all right, and you

(59:23):
had Hank Hank wayson Junior and all these people, and
I go, why it's wrestling. I mean, if we want
to put on a country show, let's put on country show.
But I don't need David allen Coe paying him. And
he walked around with his shoot six shooter of pistol

(59:43):
whipping somebody, and and why share our revenue with with that? Right?
You know? That was and and it was an extra
expense that you know, it just it just cost us
too much.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
I mean, did you ever voice your opinion or the
gym try to relm.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
In or it was Jimmy. I mean, Jimmy. Let you know,
right there, Jimmy and I, that was our the start,
the start of our our split. You and Jimmy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
I was gonna say, yeah, so you did voice your
concerns to Jim and the kind of and physically to
fist fights we had those.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Well.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Now, in the eighties was a decade where the territory
started the fall as w w F expanded nationally. When
did you first learn Vince was going after the territories?

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Well, you know, he went after Verne and all this guys,
so we knew he was coming our way, you know.
He uh TBS was our you know, we financed the
first WrestleMania come on basically, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
We did.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Yeah, I mean, and so you know, and the thing
with that was, you know, Vince and Ted hated each other.
So instead of having legal battle, you know, it was
we'll take it over. And you know it was great

(01:01:08):
for us, you know, the uh you know TVs, you
know it it pushed us and that was our buffer.
You know, we could promote up in the meadowlands, you know,
which we did. Yeah, and and uh we we went
out to l A, you know, or in Chicago, you know,

(01:01:29):
just off of TBS.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
What were the first moves that Crockett Promotions me to
protect themselves against Vince.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
Well, one thing is is TVs, you know, that was
that was the key.

Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Then then we started looking at you know, the those
you know, Florida Championship Wrestling which was going under Mid
South Wrestling.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:01:54):
You working a little bit with Verne too, right, We
tried to create a n W, a real but you know,
you know when you have too many chefs in the kitchen, Oh,
chefs in the kitchen, and they didn't you know, they
didn't nobody trusted anybody and business.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Come on, come on and you believe that, you know,
and even Eddie and Horn try to help with that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
Talk about the importance of the let me start over,
talk about the importance of cable TV as a business changed.
Initial memories of in your relationship with TBS and Ted.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Turner, Oh, Ted Turner. The first time Jimmy and Ted
met each other, Jimmy said, it was on the Eastern
Airlines flight and both of them were drunkard and skunks
and that was before uh we did anything. And Jimmy
somehow they and this was still before we had the contract.

(01:02:54):
Jimmy was invited by Ted to Be to go to
the America's Cup and sail on Tonight's which was his
boat while he was on the America's Cup boat. And uh,
then the thing and Jim Barnett helped Burk broker the deal.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
You're gonna do a Jim Barnett impersonation. Everybody does my
bone there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Uh, but Jim was something else, you know. Tali ran
you know, if you remember your history, he was always
you know, he didn't matter what. He would come to
the surface.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
When Black Saturday went down and w F brought out
Georgia Championship Wrestling and locked everyone out of TBS. How
dangerous was that for Crockett.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
Promotions when they bought out?

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
When they when w F brought out Georgia Championship Wrestling.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Oh was it? You know? We we felt threatened, but
we we knew we had to promote harder in our television,
you know, the ones that we were producing locally in
the different high school gyms and so far that it
just you know, spurred us on. Roddy Piper was one

(01:04:05):
of the first ones to leave. But Roddy also told Vince,
I'm not going to come in in this area. I
remember that I heard that story and and you know
that's that's loyalty big again.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Yes, why do you think Vince McMahon had a falling
out with Ted Turner?

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
Come on, here you go, I mean look at them.
I mean nothing against vis, nothing against Ted. I mean
you have these these A type personalities.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
When the idea of paying Vince million for the time
slot came along, what was your initial feeling on the decision.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
I didn't like it, but I knew it was necessary
good for business.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
Yes, in the long run, You've been quoted as saying
that money paid for WrestleMania pretty much. Why do you think, uh,
what do you think the history of the business would
have been if that deal hadn't been made?

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
God, you did really have to ask events on that.
Where would you have gotten the money for WrestleMania? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
That was the or died pretty much right, it was.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
Yeah, And you know, golly, you know, hindsight's twenty twenty.
There are a lot of things. You know, why didn't
we ask the Turners say all right, you put a path,
We'll put a path o the money, Because you know,
if you look at cable or television ratings. Ted was

(01:05:32):
getting let's say, a nickel for every house he passed.
All right, then if you so he had X number
of channels, all right, and then if you had if
you captured the hour on cable, you got another nickel.
So we had three hours that we owned basically you know,

(01:05:56):
that were number one in their time slots. So he
got he got besides, you know, a nickel, he got
fifteen cents per household that he passed that we never
got any of. So and really they should have put
up more. Yeah, but there again, hindsights twenty twenty. We
weren't dealing with selling time at that time. We were

(01:06:19):
just promoting wrestling.

Speaker 1 (01:06:20):
What was the relationship between TBS and Crockett Promotions, like
on a weekly basis.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
Before they owned us? It was it was It was
good Ted. You know, Ted loved wrestling because it bade
us cable system different from anybody else. That he lumped
all his sports and put wrestling in there as Saturday's

(01:06:45):
Spectacular or something to cune their ratings up so they
could baseball and so forth they could charge more. It
was good for him, and he just loved to throw
wrestling at you know, the purest of television and say,
you know they do it, why can't you do it right?

(01:07:06):
You know, why can't you capture the times a lot? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
What are some of your early memories of running head
the head against w w F.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
I enjoyed it. I mean, it's you know, it's it's
I always had a good feeling about it, you know.
I you know, I think the trips out to l
A were if he uh, you know, the going up
to Philly, Philly, you know that that was you know, saying, Okay,

(01:07:40):
damn it, you know you've come. You know we're going
to do it to you. You know, we don't you know,
and we can. It showed that we could, you guys
out through that Pacific time. Yeah, it just showed that
we could do it, you know. And he was having
a hard time with our our area.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
What are some of the tactics that w F used
against Crockett Promotions?

Speaker 3 (01:08:01):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Well, with a lot of it had to do with money,
you know, talent, to try to pull the talent away
to buy the hour, let's say the hour that we're on.
But the our TV stations were very loyal to us,
you know, the production managers, the station managers, and you know,

(01:08:21):
majority of them wouldn't sell.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
WF had a really hard time drawing in the southern
markets at first. Why do you think the fans remained
so loyal to the NW brand for so long?

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
We were very fast paced wrestling. We were not stand
up wrestling. That we were not seventy five percent walking
to the ring and walking around the ring. That it
was the action in the ring. Those interviews, the you

(01:08:55):
could believe it. It was, Yeah, they weren't. They weren't showing.
You know, we didn't have a lot of glitz and
glamor you know that it was you know, crazy and fun.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
Why did uh Crockett Promotion started buying out other territories
that were obviously at the end of the run anyway?
Was that a good idea of looking back?

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
No, what's not you know mid South? I said, don't
do it. He's it's a bankrupt So why.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
You know I coulda let the company go out and
then just take the town anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Yeah, uh, but you know there again, you know, Jim
Jim was Jim's a good salesman, you know, and he
kept you know, he was telling Jamie well, Vince is
getting radio you know buy I mean Vince was not
come on, you know, he wasn't going to do that.
Uh and that's yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
What about Eddie Graham's Florida territory?

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
We you know, we weren't really trying to buy them
out as much as helped them. You know, it was
you know, the mic Raham and you know Eddie was
at that at already passed away or he had committed,
and it was to help them, but they didn't. You know,

(01:10:22):
you had the factions there within that group that didn't
want it, you know they and then there again this
that mistrust had Well what I want to go you know,
you know it's you're just trying to help them, because
if you help them, you help yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
Why do you think looking at the Mid South UWF
guys when they came into the Crocket Company, why do
you think they were underutilized when the promotion was folded
into your company, A lot of guys came in and
they weren't really used to their full potential. Was that
because you guys didn't want to put over the other
company's talent or just.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
Uh, well the ultimate warrior left is you know, before
he even came in staying. I think we did a
great job with that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
You know, who else I think Steve Williams was I
think came in. Maybe Brad and Tim Horner, but they
were lower level guys we had, I think Debiosity already left,
Doug and already left.

Speaker 2 (01:11:23):
Right, Yeah, Doug. And you know, you can only have
the character so many characters. Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
What led to the Crockett Promotions touring war? What led
to the company doing more tour dates? Tour dates as
far as like expanding it pretty much started to expand
pretty quickly. Do you think that hurt the company because
you guys started running the southern markets less, which pretty
much allowed Vince to start coming in and beginning the

(01:11:53):
route there.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
That is true. Uh, yeah, you we should not have
forgotten who brought us to the dance, and we should
have taken our time. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
But we did interviews with Rick and Rick Flair and
Arn Anderson and both have told us that if the
company had stayed loyal just running in the Eastern seaboard,
Crockett Promotions might still exist.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
Would you agree, yes?

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
What was the biggest mistake mean in your opinion?

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
Uh, the Mid South deal in Soul? What let god,
you know, the Mid South deal definitely, because until then
we could justify the expenses, you know, with the Mid
South deal. Then you know, we've got this plint engine
uh G one held sixteen passengers, sixteen wrestlers, and we

(01:12:55):
ended up getting in a Falcon twenty, which we shouldn't have.
That was the place. Yeah, yeah, I was a nail
in the coffin and I.

Speaker 1 (01:13:04):
Was I'm gonna I'm gonna start talking about some of
that stuff. I want to look back a little bit.
Uh during the eighties, there was a lot of big
angles that took place, and a lot of talent that
came through the territory. Some of your memories with Tolly Blanchard.

Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
Oh totally great, you know, with you know, with Terry
Allen Magnum Tia does and you know and part of
the Four Horsemen. I mean there again the interviews you
know with with Tully and JJ and Rick and Arne
uh classic. You know you just go and stick alike

(01:13:41):
there and everybody shined, yeah, oh yeah, and and everything
is is off the cuff. It's you know, it's like
to night in Greensboro. Are you know this coming Sunday?
You know, And and here they go. You had Barry.

Speaker 1 (01:13:59):
Windows on the company Road Warriors. Jimmy Cornette, right, one
of the best talkers. Oh yes, yes, Lex Luger, who's
here today, right? Uh, Mike Ratanda, Rick Steiner, Eddie Gilbert
mm hm. Any memories from any of the mentioned names
that Midnight.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
Express Midnight Express were, you know. I remember that I
was doing a dual broadcast Star Kade Greensboro in Atlanta,
and I was in the truck in Atlanta. I was
I was the home base, and Jimmy and Dusty were
in Greensboro and they were going crazy sometimes and I said,

(01:14:37):
I'm not listening to you, you know, because I was
doing you know, I said, I am, I've got to
direct right now. I'm doing both of these things. And
and oh it was, but it was fun. I used
Vara lights, seventy five Vara lights and and that was
from Phil Collins and and you know, I just saw it.
I said, I remember, h who's the guy from from

(01:15:03):
Very Light? I called and he said, you want to
do what you're with whom? And I said, I want
to use you know, your Vera lights. There's the moving
lights at that time, and you know, I want to use,
you know, the main focus of this thing and program
and we and we did and that's you know, and

(01:15:24):
Jim corn out that was a scaffold match and he
went down knees stuff and blew out both knees stiff
as a board. Boom and just the you know, the
the Midnight Express and the rock and Roll. It was magic. Yes,
it was really.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
Memories of Michael Hayes, Jimmy Garvin.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
Oh well, you know they were all you know, they
they were too crazy, crazy guys. You know, you know,
Jimmy was a pilot, ye you know for I guess
American Airlines. Maybe still Baby Doll.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
Memories of Baby Doll, Yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
And here's this woman at six feet tall, very muscular,
built that Rick. I mean there again it's Rick and
part of the Four Horsemen deal. It's he made her,
you know, and and she helped make him.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
Talking about the Horsemen, what are some of your favorite
memories of the rise of the Four Horsemen And when
did you realize the company was onto something with them?

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
Oh, it's it just happens, you know. It's the interviews
that the electricity that that that they start, and the
gleam in their eye as you see, oh god, you know,
here it comes and just their their talk and the
action in the ring JJ when he gets tied up
in the ropes and he starts bouncing around and it

(01:16:49):
just classic. What are some of your.

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
Favorite angles from that time period? In eighty seven eighty six,
there was so much?

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
Oh really, I mean it will you know that with
the with there are so many of them.

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
I can watch for all and I can't remember what
happened three weeks ago, but in my memory I was
talking to Melch about this. Today we could we could
recite almost every TV from like the eighty five to
eighty seven. I remember all the promos, all the angles. Yeah,
you watch wrestling today and you forget about it three
weeks later. That's how good your company was.

Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
And and that's a shame. It's you know, it's that
my my fill in law would say, you know about
golf courses, he he uh, he helped design some golf
courses and he was a member Augusta National and he
would talk about when you play a course, there has

(01:17:44):
to be memorable holes, you know that whole you know,
it could be one or two that you remember on
that and and today they're they're not those memorable matches
that you and and that's shame because I look at
some talent and there again, I don't watch it all
the time. I just I can't.

Speaker 1 (01:18:05):
I get you know, I get too too wound up
memories of the Big Angle where nikidakole Off hit you
with the Russian sickle.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
He loved that, by the way, he loved that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
I was gonna ask you, the belief is that he
didn't pressonally like you and he stiffed you. Was that
is that true?

Speaker 2 (01:18:19):
Yes? Why the time he hated my guts? Why is that?
He said, I was sarcastic, and I'd look at him
and and just getting tongue tied and and and uh, Ivan,
you know, Ivan's such a nice guy, but I'd wind
him up and he just he said, I couldn't couldn't wait.

(01:18:42):
He said, I just couldn't wait. Now, I had no
idea when it was coming. Wow, And to me, they
asked me, what was it like? And I said, do
you remember a kid and you're running through the dark
and you get you run into a clothesline and it
spins you. Well, that's what happened. Yeah, And everybody, everybody
there everybody thought I had been killed, right, and I

(01:19:07):
sold it from the car, I mean all the way home,
and I loved it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:14):
It was money. You got to work a special guest
referee for the Nikita Flair match too, So.

Speaker 2 (01:19:18):
Right right at the stadium in Charlotte.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
Yeah, how do you think the history of the business
would have changed had Magnum not got into the car wreck?
Ohn champion?

Speaker 2 (01:19:30):
He would have been the world champion. He was, he was,
he was primed. He had there again, he was another
one that the Cameron loved him. He had that gift.
He also had the athletic ability to back it up.

Speaker 1 (01:19:46):
Talk about Stark at eighty seven on pay per view,
whether it was worth in the end to have moved
the show to Chicago and have Runner on Thanksgiving afternoon
instead of the night.

Speaker 2 (01:19:55):
Nope, it should have stayed where it was. Sure, I mean, okay, uh,
Colts Wise too, you know, nothing against but with Causewise
it was it was not worth it. And the building
was was extremely hard to adapt.

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
When you guys were getting a little bit more aggressive
in the war against Vince, you guys pretty much ran
the very first class of champions up against WrestleMania. For
did you guys ever get any flak from the cable
companies for it?

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
Oh, yes, yes, yes, uh uh. Jerry Hogan uh came
down and said, uh uh cap companies called and we
can't do that anymore, even though they Turner got fantastic ratings.
Oh yeah, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (01:20:45):
Now, there was a lot of finger pointing. We kind
of touched on this earlier. There's a lot of finger
pointing in regard to the person responsible for the death
of Crockett Promotions. Who do you blame and is it
shared responsibly?

Speaker 2 (01:20:57):
I blame myself, really, I have to. Uh, I saw it.
I I gave I gave up. Well I shouldn't have.
I was so frustrated.

Speaker 3 (01:21:11):
It was.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
Frustrated because of uh wouldn't listen, wouldn't listen, you know,
and and uh it didn't do any good to choke
him to death, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:21:29):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:21:30):
Uh they were just.

Speaker 1 (01:21:34):
They would be dusty and dusty brother.

Speaker 2 (01:21:36):
Yeah, and stink that you know that that you know,
I said, You've got to look at that. You got
to look at that, you know. Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:21:44):
And it just.

Speaker 2 (01:21:47):
Now, I I just I even and Jimmy had already
made his deal with Turner. When when how did you
learn about that tough Jim Bournett? And that didn't help
our relationship. And it was up to Jackie, Francis and

(01:22:11):
I and you know, I worked, you know to get them,
you know myself deals. And but then if you look
at it, who came out better? You know? Shortly after
we went Jimmy some to take a hike. Francis, Jackie

(01:22:33):
and I survived just because we could deal with the
politics the politics.

Speaker 1 (01:22:38):
Were there any other potential buyers before.

Speaker 2 (01:22:42):
I had some people I was told, you know from
our family attorney said you can't do that. Did you
want to sell the company?

Speaker 3 (01:22:52):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:22:53):
No, they pulled a mother card on me. I was
willing to take it to chapter eleven of me be
She came in and said, David, I said, yes, ma'am.

Speaker 1 (01:23:05):
Did Vince ever try to buy the company at all?

Speaker 3 (01:23:07):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
No, okay no.

Speaker 1 (01:23:09):
What led to the final decision to let ted buy it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
To me? It was my mother telling me, this is
what we need to do. And Jimmy, yeah, he sort
done his thing.

Speaker 1 (01:23:25):
Could anything have been done beyond selling it to save it?

Speaker 2 (01:23:29):
Yes, there were people that were willing to come to
our and and become partners with us. That I you know,
WBT Jim Babb there. Governor Martin, Uh, the governor of
North Carolina had called me Jimmy Winntakey's call. Uh, same

(01:23:52):
thing with Jim Babb Uh. And there were there were
uh investors. I had a h step a friend down
the street, j Geene Johnson with Fairport Communications. Uh, and
we were you know, he would we was. He was

(01:24:15):
in the cable business, buying up mom and pop phone
companies and doing that, and he was helping me.

Speaker 3 (01:24:22):
But it was.

Speaker 2 (01:24:26):
That's the same thing when when Vince bought it from Turner. Yeah, yeah,
I had people lined up for that and uh, Turner's people,
you know, would not sell it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:41):
Bischoff also, right, had people or was it the same people? Are?

Speaker 2 (01:24:44):
No, mine was different than him.

Speaker 1 (01:24:46):
You know when you guys sold the company to Turner.
Why was the video library sold to Turner? Because at
some point it wasn't really standard for the libraries back
then to go with the rights to the company. Like
Watson Florida, they pretty much kept their libraries. Turner walreded Okay,
do you wish at this point in time they had
maintained ownership to the tapes.

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
Or probably could have I mean they left a lot
of them, you know, they they really, I mean all
the sixteen milimeter film. You know, I thought they took everything,
but they didn't. And then they lost it. Wow, really everything.
They took all the two inch tapes. I mean we

(01:25:27):
had classic matches back when my dad was alive on sixteen.
Then we had three quarter inch tape, then we had
a half inch tape. They did not you know, they took,
you know, and then they then they lost it. They
lost it. How do you lose that? Good question. They

(01:25:47):
reorganized their you know, they kept everything there at the
tech wood and in remodeling and moving things, they were, uh,
they lost it and they would shoot. When Vince bo
bought it, they gave me a third degree about where's
where are all these tapes? And I said, they took it?

Speaker 1 (01:26:08):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
What sort of do was me?

Speaker 1 (01:26:11):
To keep the Crockett family involved after the sale? You
were supposed to consult, produce and announce.

Speaker 3 (01:26:15):
So what happened, it would not be a Turner company eventually, if.

Speaker 2 (01:26:28):
I was announcing, it wouldn't change. I went okay, by
which they told me that you know.

Speaker 1 (01:26:37):
You would have probably Yeah, something's different, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:26:41):
The thing is I had Jim Dooley, a good friend
of mine who was an NFL referee, was talking to
me about going to work in NFL films. I should
have done that. I had a you know, a consulting
agreement for five years. Five years was you know, paid
for insurance and everything, and I could have gone on
and maybe I've been in football.

Speaker 1 (01:27:01):
Now, when did you realize that w CW wasn't going
to be the Crockett Promotions reborn?

Speaker 3 (01:27:06):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:27:06):
I knew it when?

Speaker 1 (01:27:07):
Okay, why did w CW immediately fire Dusty?

Speaker 2 (01:27:13):
Oh? That was Turner Jim? Uh Jim heard Jim heard?

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
Oh first impressions of Jim out of his league?

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
Yes, yes, yes, uh talking about what he could? You know,
I just coined a truck with a briefcase and direct
you know. Yeah. But then you look at you know
uh uh he and Jack Patrick? Yes? Uh? Where was

(01:27:44):
it Jack? Uh Patrick? Patrick? Right?

Speaker 3 (01:27:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:27:48):
They were good friends and that's how he came about
and uh Patrick was gone before Jim.

Speaker 1 (01:27:56):
Yeah, what happened there then a little falling out?

Speaker 2 (01:27:59):
Uh? No, was it was with the Turner people? Okay? Yeah?
And when when Jim and Patrick it was, you know,
uh Patrick was the one that told Jimmy to stay home.

Speaker 1 (01:28:12):
Talk about your role working in production for w CW
and what was it like watching the promotion going through
so many changes in different leaders over the years.

Speaker 2 (01:28:23):
It was hard. I mean it was frustrating. Uh you
think that nobody really you know, the Turner people looked
at it as a way to bump their budget up.
A lot of them, you know, they're the market marketing people,
and said, all right, well put X number of thousands

(01:28:44):
of dollars in. You know that we're going to budget
to w c W. The same thing with the syndication,
all this, and and they didn't do it, but you
know it helped them, but hurt us. Uh then uh
uh no, nobody really cared. You know, kill Bill Shaw

(01:29:08):
and he was the HR person and nobody on the
board wanted it. And he raised his hand and he said, ted,
I'll take him. Why did w CW finally get rid
of Jim Hurt? Oh, Jim Hurt? Yeah, he just self destructed. Yeah,
and he was Jim was a decent guy. You know,

(01:29:29):
it's just that you know his he said, with the
wrestlers cannot do it, We're going to give them a show.
They won't forget with lights and pyrotechnics and so forth.
I said, okay, yeah, that's when I took Abby Spanky,

(01:29:56):
you Abdulla with the butcher electrocuted him. I had more
gun powder on around that ring. Yeah. And Chattanooga, oh
lord and and uh h to this day he said,
well it was fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:30:18):
What are your memories about Kip Fry And do you
think he was a worthy replacement?

Speaker 2 (01:30:23):
Kip was creative. Uh, it was out of his leg.
As far as the wrestlers, you know, they you know,
wrestlers are different animals come on and and he he
got on TV anytime, and that was Jimmy too. Anybody
anytime they get on TV, I say their snake bit,

(01:30:45):
that's the As soon as they do it, it's a downfall.
And when he did it was his downfall always. I
think he went on and he after he left Turner,
I think he went with a software company, red Hat
or something, I believe.

Speaker 1 (01:31:05):
So, yeah, memories of Bill Watts and his w CW
running and why do you think he didn't fix the company.

Speaker 2 (01:31:12):
Oh, Bill Wats wanted he wanted to show Who's Boss Bully. Yeah,
and you know first time that anybody met him. We
were aware some hotel and he was peeing in the
plants and he brought uh six his gun.

Speaker 1 (01:31:32):
Watts claimed that he bought the company down to affordable
levels of finances. What sort of a budget cuts did
he really make to the production end of the company.

Speaker 2 (01:31:42):
He did. Well, he didn't want any lights or stuffing,
which is fine, right, Yeah, but you have to have
the talent too, you know. And besides the talent, you
have to have the storylines. You have all the talent
in the world. But if you don't have the storylines,
and for the talent, I like to buy into it.
They have to buy into it, make them part of it.

(01:32:04):
Well they didn't. Yeah, a bully is a bully and
they just thought it well to subtle walk through that day. Yeah,
I mean I guaranteed pay right.

Speaker 1 (01:32:16):
Did you ever try to get in charge at all?

Speaker 2 (01:32:20):
Yes? When Bill Shaw was interviewing, I went over and
talked to him and he said, you know, David, I
can't let you do it. Why is that? He said,
it's you're Crockett.

Speaker 1 (01:32:34):
I was gonna I was gonna ask you to ww
ever come back to the Crockets for help.

Speaker 2 (01:32:38):
Well, he he said I'm gonna put Eric Bischoff in charge,
and I want you to protect his back. He's got
a lot to learn and you need to make sure
that he's all right.

Speaker 1 (01:32:56):
Did you get along with him?

Speaker 2 (01:32:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:32:58):
You and I had along good, you know, I you know, and.

Speaker 2 (01:33:04):
I took a lot of hits for him, but that's
Bill and I had had lunch every week, and you know,
uh uh and Eric was you know, Eric said, you
remember the first time it was in Corpus Christi, Texas
and he came down to do the nine hundred line

(01:33:24):
and I was setting things up and he walks in
and he starts asking me why. I said, stand over
there and I'll get to you.

Speaker 1 (01:33:35):
Why do you think Bischoff succeeded? And then he failed?

Speaker 2 (01:33:40):
He too snake bit, you know, Eric, he had it
his creativity, but then you know it's he started listening
to and promoting himself and only a certain number of people.
But Eric was was very creative. He just needed to

(01:34:04):
back away. And you know, I thought the second time
when he came in, he would you know.

Speaker 1 (01:34:10):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:34:11):
Matter of fact, I was on vacation when when they
sort of terminated, you know, I went what I couldn't
believe it.

Speaker 3 (01:34:21):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (01:34:23):
How do you feel about when WCW finally started taking
to Vince with the Monday Night War.

Speaker 2 (01:34:28):
Oh, I loved it. I loved it. I mean, and
that was Eric's saying. I mean, you know, the ratings
and and you know, we always wanted to do it
live because he did he did one live one tape
and and uh, you know, we we worked every quarter hour.
We'd go through that fifteen minute mark and and just

(01:34:51):
cut at the right time and and come back, you know,
and it.

Speaker 1 (01:34:54):
Just describe your role in production for the Nitrome pay
per views during that, I was, uh.

Speaker 2 (01:35:05):
Camera placement, you know, the the At first it was
you know, the buck stopped with me.

Speaker 3 (01:35:11):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:35:11):
Then you know it's then the politics. Uh, people wanted
and I guess I was oblivious, you know, I thought
everything was fine, but then you know, people wanted me out.
I went, so I went. Uh. But then that too,

(01:35:33):
is when they started killing the you know, the budgets
went through the roof, and I kept on saying, guys,
you're killing the Golden goose. At one point we had
I want to say, fourteen million dollars worth of talent
just sitting at home. There's no reasons for that. Yeah,
you know, you know, and if it were Vince's you know,

(01:35:56):
it was, yeah, their salesman, and you have to you
cannot give them everything because then there's no incentive. You
have to always have an incentive.

Speaker 1 (01:36:09):
And it's crazy because you know this because you're from
a wrestling family and WCW was now a business and
he had corporate people running it, not it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:17):
And they took it for granted. You were like a
basketball player or a baseball player that you're going to
go out and do your very best. Yeah. Wrong. Yeah, again,
is nothing against you guys, but some of you know
it's true.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
Before we get into some of the talent that were
very critical during that period of time, I want to
go back. I kind of skipped over some names. I
just want to mention some wrestling names that were in
the company in the I guess mid nineties, early nineties.
Mick Foley, Cactus Jack, early memories of.

Speaker 2 (01:36:44):
Mick, Yeah, he was he was character.

Speaker 1 (01:36:48):
Yeah, Brian Pillman, you had right, Yeah, I mean you
know the Steve Austin young Steve Austin.

Speaker 2 (01:36:55):
Oh yeah, did you see the effector in him? Yes? Yeah,
I did? You know, I remember we were doing. Uh
who was it was Jim Hurt still there because they
wanted to make him Dennis the Menace, and he said,
no way in God's green Earth that you're going to

(01:37:15):
do that. He said a few other words, too right,
and but he he already had talent, he really did.

Speaker 1 (01:37:25):
Paul Hammond was there, Yeah, your brother actually later on
trying of went into business a little bit with him.
They start, I think they did the w WN one TV.

Speaker 2 (01:37:32):
Team a screwing pad. What happened there, I don't know, but.

Speaker 1 (01:37:40):
They said they were going to do things and they
Paul screwed him or okay, he probably went with Todd
Gordon ECW and the rest is history. Rick Rude, memories
of Rick Rude, Yeah, you knew him obviously from earlier days.
Two games with Manny Yeah, Dustin Rhodes, Yeah, Dustin Upstart. Yeah,
good wrestler. Uh, I mean even look at you know

(01:38:03):
he looked at him today. You know it's excellent longevity.

Speaker 2 (01:38:07):
Yes, Scott Steiner crazy always out smoking, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
definitely you know that Terry's muscle but I think popped
out he had. Vader Vader was there, Vader and losing
his helmet tripping Johnny be bad Yeah, John oh, yes, there.

Speaker 1 (01:38:27):
I think referring to the shock Master, he was the
one that tripped.

Speaker 2 (01:38:30):
Well no, uh to the one time trying to keep
his helmet on. No shock Master was you know, I
remember Eric running out the truck. What are we going
to do? I mean we were great, we were laughing.
I mean, and you're gonna make him a clown, That's
what you got to And that was He was kind

(01:38:52):
of related to Dusty at the time too, So yeah,
there were there were they were upset about that, but
I said, hey, if he can't walk, he can't walk
right now.

Speaker 1 (01:39:00):
During the Hey day, during the Wars, a lot of
talent came in from w w E like Scott Hall,
you know, Randy Savage, Kevin Nash, Haul Cogan how big.
Uh do you think the influence of these talents helped
w CW start beating Evince?

Speaker 2 (01:39:15):
Oh uh definitely, uh, you know Bill Shaw definitely credit
credits Hogan. We were recognized nationally with Hogan. He was
willing to spend the money and he got you guys
a lot of deals too, right right. The Scott Hall
I to this day wanted a great talent at self
destruct self destruct. You know, I just his interviews, you

(01:39:42):
know that that curled hair in.

Speaker 1 (01:39:45):
That tooth pick and and just and it's a shame
really is What about Kevin Nash?

Speaker 2 (01:39:52):
Kevin same way he was. You know, he's the locker
room lawyer. You know, I got a lot of politics. Player,
but you know he but good talent.

Speaker 1 (01:40:02):
Did you see a lot of the politics? Because you know,
Eric Bischoff had a lot of guys in his ear.
He had his friends, and then he had Hogan and
then he had the other click of Kevin and Scott.

Speaker 2 (01:40:10):
Did Hogan was always had his ear always Who who
influenced Eric the most? Hogan?

Speaker 1 (01:40:18):
Would you sit back and were you able to say
anything because you kind of had to? Or did you
just watch everything play out?

Speaker 2 (01:40:25):
Well, you know you're not gonna yeah, no, it's you
know he didn't at first, you know, Eric, Eric had
his own ideas, uh, you know, doing doing the shows
down at Disney. You know, I remember it was David,
this is what we're going to do. I went, well, okay,

(01:40:47):
now made work and you know it was you know,
the and I thought it was great concept that his
idea of what I wanted to happen down there. You know,
it's it was going to be a training facility too,
and guys could learn and and then you look at
what happened in the Olympics, and and we did the

(01:41:10):
Monday Nitro out there in front of Disney MGM. I mean,
I still have the the drawings of the conceptual drawings of.

Speaker 1 (01:41:20):
That, and he's working a little bit with Randy Savage.
What was he like outside the ring?

Speaker 2 (01:41:26):
Very nice guy, really nice Bill Goldberg. Bill, as soon
as I saw him, I said, the one thing was,
we can't let him talk because we have no idea
of how he's going to sound. And that was the
scary part, because his persona was he could walk through

(01:41:47):
walls and chew nails, and you know, it's but you
don't know what what it's going to you know, can
you imagine him with with a you know, uh, maybe
he's going to kill the King's angulation or or you know,
is it going to be too northern accent or to
southern or what you know, is it too too high
pitched tone? You know, that's that was the scary part,

(01:42:10):
and that's why for so long he did not say
a single word.

Speaker 1 (01:42:14):
Do you think the company dropped the ball with him. Yes,
I mean I I by ending the street.

Speaker 2 (01:42:23):
Yes, I think there could have been other things, but
there again, that was the politics.

Speaker 1 (01:42:27):
Of little people have gotten his ear.

Speaker 2 (01:42:29):
And I guess, yeah, what about.

Speaker 1 (01:42:32):
Bobby Heaton and and mean Gene you had along with
those guys. Oh yeah, okay, talk about what your role
as VP was of production and what were your responsibilities
back then.

Speaker 2 (01:42:44):
Well, first, it was just you know that I was
the backstop for everybody. I you know, believe that that.
You know, you know, people were there, you know, so
I like me to be teen people, and you know,
I I to this date, the big mistake was Keith Mitchell. Uh,

(01:43:10):
Eric and uh, somebody had gotten in his ear. And actually,
you know, David, you've got to fire him. I said,
why because I told you so, and you know, uh
m hm that wasn't right. And you know, I you know,

(01:43:35):
I told him so, we've got to fire. And but
then it didn't, you know, because it's corporate and you
have to go through and and so it didn't happen.
And I know, you know, to probably this yeah, even today,
he probablyates my guts and and Keith, I'm sorry about that,
but you know, it was I didn't think it was

(01:43:55):
right and and I you know, and then realize the
people in the background that were you know, setting me
up in him up? Politics? Yeah, politics, I hate politics.

Speaker 1 (01:44:10):
Roddy Paper? How did he change from the mid eighties
now you're dealing with him in the nineties.

Speaker 2 (01:44:17):
He was older, He still was a talker. Of course
he couldn't move as much in the ring, but you know,
as far as his interviews and everything else, he it
was great.

Speaker 1 (01:44:31):
What happened to the night WCW ran too long with
Halloween havoc and it went off the air with DDP
versus Goldberg in the ring. Who was responsible for that?

Speaker 2 (01:44:42):
Uh? I guess we all were, Yeah, I'm not gonna
point fingers, okay, you know we you know it ran over.
Uh there was a faire to communicate, Let's put it
that way.

Speaker 1 (01:44:57):
Was there a lot of heat on you guys are
it was a lot of heat.

Speaker 2 (01:44:59):
On it everybody?

Speaker 3 (01:45:00):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:45:01):
It was you know, the trying to get time with
the cable systems to you know, but they have to have,
you know, get ready to rerun it. And it just
it was not pretty.

Speaker 1 (01:45:18):
How would you compare the success of the nWo in
its heyday to the Horsemen's run in their heyday, who
was more money? Who drew more money?

Speaker 2 (01:45:28):
Well a different times.

Speaker 1 (01:45:29):
We also had had a lot of merchandising to the.

Speaker 2 (01:45:31):
Yeah, that's want to say a different time. Yeah, both
of them, I would say both of them were would
be just as successful.

Speaker 1 (01:45:39):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:45:40):
The only thing with the nWo uh it was I
remember that we were shooting something in Chicago at which
studio was it?

Speaker 3 (01:45:56):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:45:56):
And the black leather coats and Eric and it was
some people said this is the era of Nazism, which
you know, brought back bad memories to people. Other people
they you know, liked it, but that that changed, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:46:20):
But yeah, what are your thoughts on the end of
WCW and WW finally owning everything? How did you feel
about when the company shut down? I knew three years
before you knew, you saw it coming.

Speaker 2 (01:46:34):
I saw it coming again. I kept on saying, you're
killing the Golden news goods. You're you're just killing it.
You're killing it. You can't continue to spend this money.
You know, you look at the you know, it was
everything was very secretive. You know, all right, David, go
buy an ambulance for twenty thousand dollars or we're going

(01:46:55):
to blow a bus up or turn it over, you know,
and they tell you at the last minute, well, you
can't negotiate, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:47:06):
It just was what was the most ridiculous thing that
you had to purchase on behalf of the company?

Speaker 2 (01:47:15):
I guess the most one of the Well the school bus. Yeah,
and and blow that, you know, and turn it over
and h that was expensive. Well you know you've got
the Sturgis. Yeah, that was a good million dollars. Right,
you have to build your own talent there. I mean

(01:47:37):
you had to bring everything in. You know, he didn't
have hotels, he had motels, right, you know, fun you know,
as far as creativity making it happen, but money wise,
you know, it was remember Eric, take me out in
the middle of there, in the middle of winter. I said,
you want to do what he said, He's going to

(01:47:58):
whack you probably cold out here.

Speaker 1 (01:48:02):
Come on, talk about the final episode of Nitro. You
made a speech everyone before the show backstage. Talk about
that speech and why you chose to speak about the
end of the company that came from Crockett Promotions.

Speaker 2 (01:48:12):
What was that speech? I just wanted to thank all
those people that had been with me for so long
making Nitro the way it was, the lighting crew and
the sound crew and the pyrotechnics, the twenty six stage

(01:48:38):
hands and people that would travel with us, and all
those the power companies, the uplink guys, and none of
those people had contracts. Again, I went back to my
dad's day and Mike Sasterzimus with Show Logistics now, who

(01:49:00):
is the number one generator company in the United States
for television. When I met him, I said, I gave
him a handshack and I said, as long as you
do a good job, you're here. When you don't, you're gone.
And he said his bankers could really never understand that.
But Mike, I made you a rich man. Though.

Speaker 1 (01:49:24):
What do you think of the wave of nostalgia for
the nineteen eighties wrestling and the Crockett promotions, specifically in
the material being available on the ww network and the
annual gathering since Charlotte? Are you happy that to this day?

Speaker 2 (01:49:36):
I am very happy. I am happy for our fans.
We could not have done anything without them, and how
quickly we forget.

Speaker 1 (01:49:49):
Why do you think your brother Jim has never really
attended any of the gatherings and has given really few
interviews since leaving the business. Do you think that he
feels the fans still blame him?

Speaker 2 (01:49:58):
He's embarrassed.

Speaker 1 (01:50:03):
Really, have you guys made defenses?

Speaker 2 (01:50:07):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:50:07):
Okay, good, Life's too short exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:50:10):
I was just gonna say that, yeah, especially over the
wrestling business and and the people that try to stab
me in the back at Turner. You know, after years,
I you know, you know, uh, well Bird who was
I brought in as production matter manager because they said

(01:50:31):
you can't do this, you know, by yourself the whole
time and became good friends, and all of a sudden
he said Eric could either David or me. And Eric said,
talk to me about it. And he said, well, what
are you gonna do? And I said, I'll put Steve
Barrett in now. I won't let him fail. So that's

(01:50:52):
why I did and will and I didn't talk for
years until I said, well, I'm coming. You know, I'm dry.
I went over to Nashville and I want to get together. Yeah,
it's yeah, life's too short.

Speaker 1 (01:51:09):
What did you think of the Jim Crockett Promotions Good
Old DS documentary? Did you watch it?

Speaker 2 (01:51:14):
Don't have it?

Speaker 1 (01:51:14):
Okay, let everyone know what you and your brother are
up to today and talk about the Crockett Foundation and
what led to that being created.

Speaker 2 (01:51:27):
My parents were involved with retarded citizens for quite quite
a while, and then my niece was working with it
and somebody that had the money that we put in

(01:51:47):
didn't work right, so she reworked it and it's more
working with military families and soldiers returning, which I think
is a good idea. I still think that, Uh, those
those kids, I remember Special Olympics and Charlotte they had.

(01:52:12):
They told us after the first time, he said, we
need to make a time when you come, because when
your wrestlers come, everything stops. And the wrestlers love going
out there because they just said thank you lord.

Speaker 3 (01:52:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:52:30):
Did you watch the product today?

Speaker 2 (01:52:33):
Very seldom. I I I there again the the frustration
over over the scripted promos and write, yeah, the scripted matches.
There's no storytelling anymore. It's spots, spots, spots spot.

Speaker 1 (01:52:51):
Yeah, it's and and and it's choreographed, yeah yeah, and
and nobody calls it in the anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:52:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:52:57):
I mean you uh, you lose the creativity is not
there the rest of our wise, when you look back
on your time and your family's time in the business.

Speaker 1 (01:53:08):
What do you think your legacy should.

Speaker 2 (01:53:10):
Be, Kelly, My legacy, I hope that people think that
I gave them a good quality entertainment for the time
we had it, that they enjoyed it. I know that

(01:53:37):
while we had it, I would get letters saying my
grandmother grandfather died watching TV. And I know they died happy.
And as long as the fans still remember it and
come to these reunions, that's eventually those fans will. Yeah.

(01:54:02):
I just wish that maybe someday that some young people
out there would would study, you know, the Rick Flairs,
the Four Horsemen, and be able to adapt in some way.

Speaker 1 (01:54:22):
Any personal regrets when it comes to the business.

Speaker 2 (01:54:25):
I'd wish I'd been able to bind the company several times.
I wish that.

Speaker 3 (01:54:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:54:33):
Would you want to see the Crockett family be inducted
into the w W Hall of Fame.

Speaker 2 (01:54:39):
I'd like to see my father he Invinced Senior. We're
good friends the family. No. I think my father, just
like Vince Senior, they did a lot for wrestling, you
know business. Yeah, any Fevered Road stories you would have shared,

(01:55:03):
any fever ribs, John Valentine, if you go through we
at w r L TV. If we had these buffets
and sometimes you had this Salisbury steak and this gravy,
and if he went through the line before you, you
did not go in. Of course he would, I hate

(01:55:23):
to say, this ship and a cup and then somehow
he would get it and cover it with gravy, and
any of the boys fell for it. Oh yes, yes,
uh you know, uh, golly, the the oil of mustard
and their tights, you know, before they go out to

(01:55:47):
wrestling and all of a sudden, you know there there
there are testicles and rearuins or totally on fire. Then uh,
only Anderson, I mean Gene Anderson. He had this ability
to just two little fingers pinch and and he would

(01:56:08):
be selling like he's dying. But you know, the baby
face is screaming because.

Speaker 3 (01:56:13):
He is just.

Speaker 2 (01:56:16):
It's like a ice script bar. Favorite night in the business,
Favorite night. I want to say that the Dual tallecast
from Greensboro in Atlanta, even though I didn't particularly care
for it, Uh, directing that I because I really thought

(01:56:41):
I was in charge and doing it. I you know,
I'd see Dusty Jimmy, calm down, everything be fine. Because
they lost audio there for some reason, right, I said,
you know, we're fine. You can't hear us, but we're fine.
You know we will get you back.

Speaker 3 (01:56:59):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:56:59):
It's just you know, if you weren't in the wrestling business,
what do you think you'd be doing.

Speaker 2 (01:57:07):
I hope that I would have taken Tom Dooley's advice
and gone to work for NFL Films.

Speaker 1 (01:57:15):
Is there any final words for anyone out there that
you want to say to to your fans?

Speaker 2 (01:57:22):
Vince, if you watch this, congratulations you know you know
you can write the history. I'm glad that a wrestling
person was able to do it, really instead of a network.

Speaker 1 (01:57:39):
Well, it was an incredible interview, and thank you for
being here to tell you us. And I've been waiting
twenty years to say this. Well, David, we're out of
time and we gotta go.

Speaker 3 (01:57:50):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:57:50):
I love doing that. I really it was awesome. I
love to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:57:54):
I'll just start laughing, get to get a T shirt
and starts off.

Speaker 2 (01:57:57):
We gotta go out of time. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:58:00):
X again, it was a great, great interview.

Speaker 2 (01:58:01):
Oh, you're welcome.

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