September 3, 2025 • 47 mins
🎤 Bret Hart—The Excellence of Execution—opens up about Montreal's infamous screwjob in this legendary 2003 interview. 💔 Raw details: Shawn Michaels' backstage antics, Vince's betrayal, and the night wrestling changed forever. 🔥 The truth behind Owen Hart's tragic death, Hulk Hogan's ego trips, and Stone Cold's rise to fame. 👊 Bret's unfiltered take: WCW's downfall, Goldberg's careless move that ended his career, and why he'll never forgive WWE. 💀 From locker room politics to personal pain—the Hitman holds nothing back. ⚠️ Warning: Contains shocking revelations about wrestling's darkest moments. 😱
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💥 Thanks for checking out Wrestling Shoot Interviews and Stories – where the legends speak and the stories hit harder than a steel chair.
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🎙️ Because every wrestler has a story worth telling.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/wrestling-shoot-interviews-and-stories--5864462/support.
💥 Thanks for checking out Wrestling Shoot Interviews and Stories – where the legends speak and the stories hit harder than a steel chair.
📲 Stay connected: Facebook Mk-Ultra CAST | X @MkUltracast
💬 Share your favorite wrestling moments and story ideas with us online.
🎙️ Because every wrestler has a story worth telling.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the show.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
We are so unbelievably proud to bring you Bret the
hit Man Heart for the first time since his stroke,
a worldwide exclusive. Where was he immediately after the stroke?
How about his recovery? And Vince McMahon, what does he
think of him now?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Brett Hart One on one Bring it on.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Off the record with Michael Lansbergh is brought to you
by the Cake Steakhous and Bar for great steaks, Good friends,
see you tonight.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I don't want to take too much time here. If
you're watching, you know what we've got today. A great wrestler,
a very good friend, and a really inspirational guy.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Brett Hart.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
This interview is a worldwide exclusive. It's the first TV
that you have done since you had the stroke. So
thank you so very much for trusting us with us.
Nice to see you, Nice to see you looking so good,
glad to be here. First off, we should start with
your amazing recover.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
You look great right now. Here's a little bit short.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
On one hand, I know that you're here to talk
to your fans, but also to test yourself. Everybody knows
that you had a stroke. They may not realize that
it was very serious. That you were actually paralyzed on
the left side of your body and almost died. Sitting
here today, I gotta ask you how you feeling.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
I feel really good. I feel I'm you know, I
am glad to be alive and glad to be where
I am today. When I remember where I was before
when I had the stroke, kind of like if you
were at the bottom of a barrel, I was. I
was at the bottom of a real deep hole, and
I am you know, I remember those moments when I
(01:41):
first had the stroke, in the first few weeks, and
maybe even the first couple of months, these are pretty
dark times for me.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I think we want to put it in perspective for
people that they don't understand because in the world of wrestling,
it's all about a work and it's all of it's
all fake, right, But this is as real as real gets.
You were riding your b you fell, You're in the hospital,
the doctors tell you you have a stroke. You've had
a stroke, like your life's in jeopardy. I want you
to tell me physically what you were not able to
(02:08):
do at that point when they took me into the hospital.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
I all I had was a little bit of feeling
in my toes and a little bit of feeling in
the tips of my fingers. And I didn't. I didn't
get it. I didn't know what it was. I even
I didn't find out till about four in the morning
that I had the stroke that I had one, and
I didn't understand it. And I didn't I was actually
thinking for the first four days, even though they told
(02:34):
me what it was, I kept thinking, I'm just gonna
get up and walk out of here in about a
week or two weeks, three weeks from now, be sitting
in my house joking about this. And it took me
about four days and then I think it was even
my doctor came in and I said, I asked them
the question. I said, I guess I should get used
to the fact that I'm not going to get up
and walk out of here. And he said, you're looking
(02:55):
at six months just to you know, just to recover.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
But there were no guarantees. Right.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
You walked in today with hardly a limp. You and
I talked before we went on camera for a half hour.
You sat and you ate sandwiches, You had a cup
of coffee. We'd laughed about all kinds of stuff, I mean,
this is literally a staggering achievement. And there was no
guarantee at that point that you would ever be able
to walk on assistant, that you'd ever be able to
leave it lead a normal life.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
No, they don't make any guarantees because I think unfortunately
a lot of stroke people don't recover or they don't
get a lot of it back, and so they don't
want to make any big promises. And they were very vague,
and I could see that they were being vague, and
I and you sort of sink depression and you're emotionally
very you're devastated. You know, if you go to a
(03:39):
stroke where everybody on it's and tears and everyone's crying,
and it's a very very depressing hallway to walk down.
But you know, there was a lot of I had
some really good people that especially the physio people in
Calgary at the Foothills Hospital. They really worked well with
me and push me, and I have met a lot.
(04:02):
I have a whole new newfound respect for hospitals and
nurses and the people that in that healthcare system that
not just with me, but all the people in that
in the physio.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
So your life was cruising along pretty normally. You had
been recovering from a post concussion problem that had forced
you to retire from wrestling. You were telling me that
you had an invitation from Daniel Lagali the night you
had your stroke to have dinner with.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Koffy and the head of the United Nations. They had
the summit. I was actually riding my bike to ride
downtown to kind of just check it out the summit.
And yeah, I mean one minute I was on top
of the world. In the next minute, I couldn't even
turn my hand over or anything.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
It was so I want to ask you, then, as
as you sit in this darkness that you talked about,
you know, you're depressed, You're wondering about the rest of
your life. Where was the first ray of sunshine? At
what point did you realize, you know what, I'm seeing
some positive situations here that are developing.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
I don't know, that's hard to answer. I think the
first the first I mean, I was able to stand
on my leg, but my st when I stalk. When
when I did it was able to do that. That
was was a big thing to stand and sort of
be able to walk, but I couldn't. I couldn't really
walk yet I could use the wall or something or
lean on something. But I think M the big one
(05:23):
of the first things. I just remember I woke up
in the morning in the hospital and I hadn't be
able to move hardly anything, just a little bit of
my fingers now, And I remember I just looked at
the nurse. The nurse came in and I went like this,
and that was a big thing.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Now, you were a guy who who had to put
up with enormous amounts of pain in the ring, right,
I mean, that's what that's what it is to wrestle,
To wrestle for Vince McMahon, you gotta be able to
go out there when you were in pain. You got
to go out there when your shoulders killing you.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Contrast the pain that you thought was so extreme from
when you wrestled.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
To what you felt, you know, immediately after your stroke.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
No, no comparison. I mean the stroke. I wasn't y,
I wasn't really in law of pain. But I I think,
you know, it's definitely my biggest battle. You know, like
I couldn't. I couldn't, I couldn't get around being you know,
like having no no, I couldn't even couldn't do anything.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Let me ask you, this did the fact that that
you were a high performance athlete, that you were used
to training in the gym all the time, that it
was all about staying in shape and it was all
about putting up with the pain of being in the gym.
Did that help you or did it hurt you?
Speaker 4 (06:29):
In the beginning because of my muscle mass, say, and
my size and stuff, it's actually works against you because
you have to carry around more weight than uh.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Than normal.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
You're a smaller, thinner guy. It's a lot easier to
start recovering. But uh in saying that, once you get
to say, like we're the halfway point of my like
the six months that I started to recover. After about
three months, all that muscle mass in your old strength
and your your old like your old pistons start everything
(07:03):
starts to come back. Then I start to recuperate faster
than someone that didn't work out, and it starts to
benefit it. But not in the beginning, because you're dragging
around like a fifty pound leg and a you know,
thirty pound arm.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
I got to ask you, and we'll take a break
so we can reload.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
This is amazing. This is Brett Hart.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
It's the first time that he's talked, and we totally
cherish the fact that you're doing it on this show.
I want to ask you about Vince McMahon, I want
to ask you about who responded to you and who didn't,
and lots more.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Brett Hart one on one on off the record.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
The best thing about this is that you're alive and
well and looking really good.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Great to see him, and that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Off the Record with Michael Landsberg is brought to you
by the Keg Steakhouse and Bar for great steaks.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Good friends.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
See you tonight, Brett Hart one and off the record.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
You talked about your situation, how dark it was, how
devastated you were by your stroke, But there was a
point when you recovered and you understood that, you know what,
I got a shot and I'm probably going to be
able to go back to living a reasonable life.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
When you realized that how much.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Had your impressions, your values, what you thought about life,
how much had they changed at that point.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Yeah, I went through so many different phases, Like in
the beginning, you know, in the first few weeks that
I had a stroke, I really I tried not to
get bitter. You know, I was really angry about it.
I couldn't believe it had I couldn't. It's like er,
you know, I was really mad, and I was really
bitter and just really down. And once I started getting
(08:49):
little things back, like I can tell you, it was
a huge thing for me. And I used to get
in the car every day. They picked me up and
put me in the car, take me home sometimes for
a weekend pass I'm living at the hospital, and I
remember I would flip the visor down in the car
and I would stare at it, and I can remember
for for for weeks, maybe months, I couldn't wink. Well,
(09:12):
I was just like that, And I remember flipping it
down one day and going and it was just such
a huge thing.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
All of the ability to wink is of uppermost importance
to So so how do you look at life differently
now than you would have at at the peak of
when you wrestled. I mean, you were known for your
focus to wrestling, But how does your impression change of
the world around you when what you want?
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Well, I think you really get started looking at what's
really important to you, and you know, like all the
things that seemed important the day before, and none of
a lot of the a lot of my hard feelings
towards people didn't mean as much. And it's like, gotta
get on with the important things like your family and
things like that in your life that are so much
(10:00):
more worth uh putting your time into.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
One of the things that you find out besides how
you feel, you find out how fe people feel about you.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, So so you have this you know, you know,
devastating situation which I I wanna know.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Uh, And it's.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Obviously we're talking about people that the folks at home
would know from the world of wrestling or whatever.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Who was there for you? Who do you feel, you know,
really they were there?
Speaker 4 (10:21):
I wanna say, first and foremost obviously my family was
there for me. Uh My wife Julie was tremendous. She
she was really really good, and uh my kids were
all great. And but I have to I have to
say something about Walter Gretzky, who who made contact with
me in the first few days that I was in there,
(10:41):
and was was just a real it was a real
support for me. And I don't even know if Walter
Gretzky knows how much, uh how much he did for me.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Well, I mean he's he's a walking example.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I guess, uh from your standpoint of where you could go,
which is the greatest inspiration. But that's the kind of
inspiration that you can help be for somebody else. Right,
somebone who's watching the show, who is a family member
who was in your position, can can show this tape
to them and say, see I.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Had Roddy Piper was another one. Roddy Piper came up.
I had a lot of the Canadian wrestlers called me
Ben Wah, Jericho Edge, all these guys, and a lot
of the guys that a lot of the Canadian wrestlers
called me for somebody. I didn't get a lot of undertakers.
We spoke and I had a lot of old friends
finally called me, and that kind of thing. It's funny.
After I left the WWF the way I did, and
(11:28):
even the way I left the WCW, I think a
lot of wrestlers were afraid or intimidated to call me,
or maybe they didn't want to open up that can
of worms, or maybe we'd get them in trouble for
talking to me or something like that. But I never
heard from Tim. Many wrestlers even after especially after my
brother Owen's passing. You know, I kind of found myself
isolated because people just didn't want to go there, They
(11:50):
didn't want to talk about it. And with the lawsuit
and all the stuff that was going on.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
You know, you and I have always spoken candidly.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I mean, you've been open and honest, and you know
I always was there anything you don't want to talk about?
Speaker 1 (12:01):
And you say, asked me anything?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And after Owen's death, you spoke about Owen's death and
the people that you felt had betrayed you and all
of that.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
And I know that was so divisive for your family.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
But sitting here today after your stroke and your recovery,
has that helped to bond your family once again? Because
sometimes it does have that effect.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Mm? No, I never. I can't say it did, because
I think the divisiveness in my family was brought about
over for me anyway. It was loyalty to my brother
Owen and the disloyalty to him by some members of
my family. So I don't I never found. I found. Actually,
(12:39):
when I had my stroke, I made I scratched several
names off my guests like my list to come visit me.
I didn't even want them to come in.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
But who was that?
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Uh My sister Diana who was married to Davy boy,
I never really sawed I with her, and you know,
I kind of closed the door on them, and they
don't exist for me anymore. My sister Howie was married
to the Anvil. They were too hell bent on getting
jobs for their husbands rather than thinking of all one
and his family, and I never forgave him for that.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I want to hear what you have to say about
Vince McMahon, but I want to say that your slogan
was the best there is, the best there was, and
we can still say the best there ever will be.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
He's Brett Hart. What's the situation with Vince McMahon? Hold
on to that. We'll find out next.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
As Brett Hart told us, every single time he's been
on the show, go wherever you want. Probably the guy
that you have had the most abrasive, the most on again,
the most off again relationship with is Vince McMahon.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
You came on the show in.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Nineteen ninety seven and talked about Survivors Series, about how
he had betrayed you, about how you smacked him in
all of that sitting here today in two thousand and three.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Do you still hate the guy?
Speaker 4 (13:55):
No, I don't. Well hates a big word, but I don't.
I don't. I don't.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I'll bail you out of anything. I'm not bailing you
out of this way. Do you still hate Vince mcmaan.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Nah, I think I've moved on past that a little bit.
I I certainly don't forgive what he did. I don't.
I don't care for the how they justify it, you know,
they try to minimize it all today, like it was
nothing and it was part of it was just doing business,
and it was it was never doing but never about business.
It was just about being dishonest and unfair. And uh,
(14:29):
I'd never been too happy with what they did. But
when I had my stroke, he called me in the
hospital and I had I was just I was such
a wreck at that time that he actually caught me
completely off guard. It was just Vince McMahon on the phone,
and I think he was I thought it was a
(14:51):
nice gesture anyway, and I we talked a little bit
and I was, like, I say, pretty pretty feeble and
pretty devastated. And I didn't even what to say. And
I we started talking and I've I've had a guy,
a friend of mine that's working on a coffee table
book with me at the time, and he does all
(15:11):
these really first rate guy named Alan Turwitz doing these
coffee table books, and who I'd seen in Montreal like
four days before this stroke, and this is like six
days later, and he was doing this coffee table book
and we were talking about pictures. I said, I don't
have any. I don't have access to it, not any
of my shots with the belts and all that kind
of stuff and or my footage. And so then I
(15:35):
when Vince called, was the first thing I asked him.
I said, I have a guy doing a coffee table
book and I and we just had a little talk
about He said, anything you can, you know, cause he
made this promise to me once before actually my brother
Owann's funeral, and he you know, he you know, went
back on his word there. But we talked that day
and he goes, just have him called me anything you want.
(15:57):
And I thought that was a good sign and nice,
nice gesture, and I thought, you know, I for me,
I have to find a little closure too, you know,
I don't want to keep dragging around all this bitterness
and uh, hard feelings towards Vince McMahon for forever. I
don't I don't know what happened with I still don't
(16:17):
know what happened with my brother Owen because it never
went to trial and never never knowing, there was never
a no one ever justified or explained to me what happened,
including Martha or anybody else. That's just a you know,
someone paid for that to be put away, and that's
sealed in a box somewhere. But I mean, i'd once
(16:39):
I kind of realized there's there's nothing I can do
to get back to that, to carry it around and
have it's just a it's just a big weight on
your back all the time. And I I had enough
weight on my back when I had the stroke. So
I just thought, here's a chance to kind of he's
making a he's offering an Olive Brandt's, and I thought
it would be in best interest for me and my family.
(17:03):
Even the uh there's I have nephews in my family
that have aspirations to to wrestle when they want, you know,
if you're gonna get into wrestling, where you're gonna go,
you know, And I didn't want them to feel that
they couldn't go work for Vince if they want to someday.
I have a nephew, Ted, who's actually quite a good wrestler,
and uh Davy boys son Harry. They're both great little wrestlers,
(17:24):
and I think they are little hesitant to go work
for Vince or and maybe Vince's hesitant to hire them.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
M I gotta ask you this, though, knowing what you
know now, the way your life has evolved, the way
wrestling has been, I'm sure the best thing that ever
happened to you and the worst thing. If they were
your kids, would you try to keep 'em away from wrestling?
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Yeah, I mean I I do steer my kids away
from ITNT, but if they really wanted to do it,
I mean wrestling. I mean I'd rather I'd rather my
kids got into wrestling than uh, you know, if he
was doing drywall or something. Not that there's anything wrong
with doing drywall, but it just wrestling was exciting and
a lot of fun, and you know, I saw the
(18:06):
world and there's a lot of good things that come
out of wrestling. Unfortunately, there's a lot of bad things
that happened too. It's not a business that takes care
of its own, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
There's not a man in the planet.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
There's not a family in the world that could talk
about the good and the bad of wrestling like you, guys.
I want to find out though. You sat face to
face with Vince McMahon. Right, we'll talk about that when
OTR returns. Just a short amount of time left in
(18:40):
this I have to say this has been one of
the truly remarkable.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Experiences that I've had on the show.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
As you know, and I've told you many times that
off the record, oways Brett Hard a lot. You came
on our show when we first started. You put trust
in us right away. You drew us an audience, and
for that we're totally thankful. And for the fact that
you're sitting here in this worldwide exclusive you know, it's
pretty wonderful thing.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
No one's happy to be here than me.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Well, I have to say that you have educated people
on bravery and coming back, and you've shown us where
you are. You had a meeting with Vince McMahon, which
I'm intrigued with, just a couple of weeks ago. Right,
you guys have face to face, tell me what you
were thinking in Florida at his place.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
And what came from that meeting.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Well, I just wanted to kind of know that I
was I think a lot of people in this couple,
my sisters again, kind of painted this picture of me
being this I was so out to get him, and
I was driving the lawsuit, which I never had anything
to do with Martha's lawsuit. I certainly stood beside her
on it and tried to be as much help as
I could, but I was not driving it. And I
(19:39):
think he thought that I was really the driving force
in the family that was trying to sort of get back.
There's a lot of people that really, which I think
is just stupid to think that I had hard feelings
for Vince what happened in Montreal in comparison to anything else,
you know, it's like, you know, I think what happened
with Olman?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
What'd you feel when you and I'm interested because this
is the meeting of two guys that had fought it
out publicly, including on this show. You talked about how
much you hated each other. He ridiculed you on this show.
When you saw him face to face, what was your
feeling and did he shake your hand?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Did he hug.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Oh yeah, he had me a big hug, and I
think it was you have people have to understand Vince
in a lot of ways was like a father to me.
We were really close. We were so close prior to
that last week that I worked and it was it's again.
It was such a shame. I think it was some
really bad judgment on his part what happened, and I felt,
really I think I thought it was time to kind
(20:34):
of heal the wound a little bit and let him
know that I didn't wander around my house my fist
clinched cursing his name everywhere, and not anymore, at least
not anymore.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
He clearly used to do with that.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
And I think I just wanted I thought, you know,
he made a gesture, and I'm going to make a
gesture back and let him know that I want peace.
I don't want to keep carrying around the hard feelings.
And he was nice and we we actually talked about
the you know, maybe doing a DVD on my greatest matches,
and we're kind of getting around some of the sore
(21:08):
spots that we had, and I certainly don't want to
say anything that I got to ask.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
You upsets all that, would you come back? Would you
not as a wrestler? Of course, I'll ask you that
got a chance, not even appearance.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
I don't think so I have. It's highly unlikely.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
What about if he came to you with a thank
you to or saying you know what, we didn't say
goodbye correctly, which is obviously the case back then.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
I have thought about maybe if the audience was there,
you know, because I have to look at it from
his side, what is he going to benefit? But if
there was an opportunity to go back, and and that's
one of the things I said to him, I said,
I just want to be remembered for my contribution. You know.
That's what's bothered me, is you he erased everything I
did or you didn't erase it, but you've sealed it
(21:51):
so no one really sees it, and I'm not remembered
for what I did.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
What do you remember of Kurt Hennick? Obviously he's passed away.
That news just came to us passed the way yesterday.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Uh? It is that was really upsetting for me cause
Kurt was I would say, Kurt was in one of
my the top like my five best friends in the
wrestling business, and uh, we had such a great chemistry together,
and uh, you know, I can't believe that it happened.
But someone asked me a few months ago, maybe six
months ago, said, who is your favorite wrestler? Who If
(22:26):
you could have one guy in the ring and you
could be wrestling him, who would it be? And I
feel good now saying that. I said it was Kurt Henning,
and uh, we had such great matches. And you know,
when you were l you look at your career, my career,
and you look how you sort of climbed up. I
really climbed up wrestling against Kurt, and that was you know.
I won the Intercontinental Belt against Kurt. And if anyone
(22:49):
knows the true story about what happened in uh the
Summer Slim that year is at Kurt hurt his back
pretty bad, and uh, a lot of wrestlers wouldn't have
showed up that day, but Kurt showed up in the
Summer Slam like amazing.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I'm gonna do something I didn't think i'd shown to do.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Which is cut you up because I couldn't shut you up.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
And that's the best way it could be.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
We'll see you next time Brett Hart two one week
from today.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Off the Record with Michael Landsberg is brought to you
by the Keg Steakhouse and Bar for great steaks. Good friends,
See you tonight. Michael Landsberg's wardrobe supplied by Grafton in Company.
Get it at Grafton.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
You know what?
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Look at that that good file. I can give a
real smile if it's today.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
It's part two of our amazing worldwide exclusive one on
one with Brett the hit Man Hard. Today he'll talk
to us about some of his not so favored people
like Sean Michaels, like Triple h and what does he
think about what Hulk Hogan had to say about him
on this show Today, One on one with Brett Hart.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Bring it on.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Off the Record with Michael Landsberg is brought to you
by the Cake Steakhouse and Bar for great steaks. Good friends.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
See you tonight.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
We are back with Brett Heart.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
It's part two of our world exclusive with one of
Canada's best love athletes. I argued with Vince McMahon on
this show. I said he's a Canadian icon. Vince said
he's not. I think I have been proven correct, given
the warmth and the love the Canadians have shown for you,
and you have sat on this set in the first show,
and you showed us all that you are so incredibly
far back from your stroke. Thanks so much for joining us,
and you know what, it's just great to see you
(24:39):
looking so good.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
My pleasure.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Okay, let's talk to some wrestling now. Let's talk about wrestlers.
Let's talk about Hal Cogan. He was on this show
a short time ago and he had some nice things
to say about you, but he also pointed to the
fact that maybe there had been some tension, at least
from his perspective. Take a look at this clip. Then
I want you to comment Brett Hart. Here's what Hulk
had to say on OTR.
Speaker 6 (24:58):
I love Brett Hart, I love the Heart Family. I
feel horrible about the tragedy and the problems over the
last decade with the Heart Family. And I just had
a very crazy letter come to my house from Brett
Hart's manager or agent, and when my book came out,
the gist of the letter was how could you trash
Brett Hart at a time like this? And they actually
(25:21):
sent an article where Brett had written this unbelievably beautiful article.
I don't know when it was, but it said if
there's anything true or real and professional wrestling, it's Terry Boy.
I've seen him with the kids, and the article is unbelievable.
And I felt bad to see the article and the
guy thinking I was trashing Brett. This was Brett Hart's manager.
And I explained to my wife and said, I don't
understand the letter. I mean in the book, I just
(25:41):
told what happened.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
So Clummage, Oh, he's wrong, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
He nice to know nothing changes you lay it on.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
I certainly want to open up a big thing with
him again because we I did trash him a lot
years ago when I was and he he didn't pass
the torch to me. And he can go ahead and
say it was a misunderstanding with right, yeah there was,
and he says it like what happened was I was
supposed to wrestle Hogan in SummerSlam for the belt, and
(26:13):
we even took pictures, which is maybe he doesn't remember this,
or Vince, but I remember we took pictures with a
tug award with the belt for the poster, so we
know it was a title match, and so f over
the weeks, Fince tells me that Hulk isn't isn't gonna,
isn't gonna wrestle me cause he doesn't wanted to drop
the belt to me, And so I confronted Hulk on it.
(26:36):
We had a big blow off about it, and then
we go into confront Vince and Vince goes, it's a
non title match, and I'm since, when you know, cause
I knew that it was said to be a title match,
and so then I after I kind of got over that,
and of course Yoko got the belt, and people it's
not so much the belt. People don't understand. It's not
the belt. The belt in those days was not contracts
(26:57):
and stuff. The the champion is the high paid guy
in the company. And when the boss of the company
says you're getting the belt, means I've earned the spot
to become the highest paid gun in the company. And
hul Cogan takes upon himself to redirect my fate and say, no,
you're not getting it. He's going to get the main
event money and you're still in the middle of the
card or wherever. And I certainly think I worked hard
(27:19):
enough to earn that spot, and I think it would
have been a great historical match so he I did
kind of knock him for years about being a bad actor.
I don't know if I said anything wasn't true. But
when I got to WCW, I sort of saw things
a little differently because I felt that Vince tried to
(27:40):
railroad hulk a little bit in the end, maybe even
using me to do it. And I thought, I feel
like I was wearing his shoes a little bit.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
So guys able to work together in WCW.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
Yeah, we buried the hatchet and I shook his hand,
and I never said a bad thing about him or
wrote a bad thing about him again. And I wrote
a really nice column about him. And then he wrote
in his book that he doesn't know what my problem is,
and I always bash him everywhere hence today.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
What was the politicking like in w c W, Cause
cause I know a lot of people look at at
you when you came over there. You were making a
lot of money, and there were people that actually suggested
on this show that that was a reason for tension.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
What was it like back then?
Speaker 4 (28:18):
All I'm gonna say it was like a lunatic asylum.
And I think of Eric Bischoff, who I like as
a person, I really do, and I sympathize maybe with
whatever he was dealing with. But Eric Bischoff was a
lot like that Wizard and the Wizard of Oz, you know,
with all the but he had no he really had
no idea what he was doing. They never came up
with one idea for me, and anytime I did come
(28:40):
up with the idea, it was usually turned away.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
And it was it was.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
It was the most screwed up place I ever worked for.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
And you've worked up in some pretty screw screwed up places, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
It it was a I don't know who said. You know,
when I think about how much I came like Vince,
you look at what Vince did after I knock him
ou Montreal. He took that whole storyline and built himself
into the corrupt promoter and made a you know, basically
turned the fortune of the company around through that.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
And we'll see you off.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
The fact that that that he was smart enough to
take the tension that he had with you, and the
fact that you smacked him and the people hated him
and turned it into a billion dollar empire.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
It no, not so much. I mean, it doesn't surprise me.
I always kind of kind of figured you'd do something
like that. But I think what disappointed me, and maybe
he does make me angry sometimes, is how poorly the
WCW used me. I mean, they really, they couldn't have
done a worse job. And you think, you know, the
scary thing is is what they were paying me. They
(29:42):
paid me great up until they hurt me, and then
you know, they just didn't know what to do. Vince
McMahon said to me, he said, w CW will never
know what to do with a Brett Hart. And I
remember I even said that to him in Florida. I said,
you're so right. They didn't have a clue what to
do with me from the second I got I think
there was a lot of people that were stabbing me
in the back behind closed doors.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Were stabbing you in the back.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
I'll never know. I've had people tell me that. I
have a lot of people to say it was Hogan,
but I don't necessarily know that.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Can you have.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Friends in wrestling, because because at the very top where
you were, it's all about passing the baton to someone else,
It's all about worrying about.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Who's going to come up behind you and take it
from you.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
It must be so enormously difficult to have real friends
who are similarly at the top with you.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
Yeah, I no, you can have lots of them. It's
the guys with the right attitude and guys that respect.
I think a lot of the real good workers, like
the Henning like who.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Like let's give you examples of guys because I asked
you who stabbed you in the back. But who's the
guy that you can remain friends with, even if you
got to pass the baton to him or he's got
to give it to you. It's still friendship above and beyond.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
Lots of them like Ben Wah, Kurt Henning, even guys
that aren't necessarrely the great workers, but but guys with
a good attitude and try hard.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
You know.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
I never had a problem about winning or losing in
a wrestling match, contrary to what people might try to
say today. But I mean, I never ever had a
problem with that as long as I understood that the
guy that I was wrestling was willing to do the
same thing for me if it came down to it,
Like I didn't even I wouldn't care about tossing a
coin for wrestling match. Was it was, it was a
(31:25):
bit of a brotherhood and there was a lot of
guys that worked for themselves.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Well, I want to ask you about a guy who
may fall into that category, Sean Michael's back in nineteen
ninety seven. He was the guy with Vince that you
were most pissed off with. And we'll talk about Sean
Michael's Triple H a lots more when OTR returns with
Brett the hit Manhart.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
Off.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
The record with Michael Landsberg is brought to you by
the Keg Steakhouse and Barn for great steak Good friends,
see you tonight, Up, I see Delton and the other team.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
All right, let's talk about the state of wrestling right
now with Brett Hard who is looking good and sounding good.
And I want to ask you about Triple H. When
you left the WWF. Back then, he was kind of
a minor player. He was an up and coming guy,
but he was kind of a minor player. Now, not
only is he incredibly big in the ring physically and
of stature as well, but also influence in the company.
Writes it, he books it, he does an incredible amount
(32:29):
of things. Is that a good thing for the company?
Are you surprised? And is he up for it.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
I don't know. I always thought of Hunter as a
real as kiss. He had his nose so far up
Vince's ass that and and Sean's and he was never
a straight guy. I don't think. I don't have much
regard for Hunter. I thought he was a a not
a straight guy, never one of the boys, never one
(32:57):
of the guys in the dressing room. He had his
own agenda and was very sneaky, kind of cowardly kind
of guy. That's my take on him.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Part of the course in wrestling, though, because because those
guys do get ahead.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
Yeah, unfortunately they do. Yeah, But I don't think, you know,
when I look back in my career, I like to
think that I was loved by my The drestlers and
dresser had a lot of respect for me, and they
appreciated the work I put in, and they understood that
I was a team player. And I don't think anyone
could say the same thing about a Hunter Helmsley.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
How about Sean Michaels, because he is coming up on
this show in a couple of weeks, and whatever you
say now will play this clip for him.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
He was the guy that you wrestled against.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Survivor series that took the belt from you, that you
felt betrayed you, that you felt was afraid of you
in the end.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
What are your thoughts about him now?
Speaker 4 (33:44):
I'd say he was a two faced, lying chicken shit
and I'm probably being nice to him.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
And now.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
I don't think that's a snake that never changes stripes
hunt Sean. He was the kind of guy that would
make friends with you or bury the hatchet with you
ten minutes later, and ten minutes later he'd be out
there stabbing in the back again. You couldn't make peace
with him, you know, he was he was a guy
(34:15):
and the guy that was you know, I think he
had a put a new meaning to the word sort
of prima don or self. He had such a huge eagle.
And you know, I think you always got to have
a lot of ego to become a champion. I'm sure
as people say, I have an ego and and I
think I do where everyone does. And if you're going
(34:37):
to be a big star, you have to have an eagle.
You have to start of comes down at believing in yourself.
But Sean was a guy that was very insecure and
very uh I think weak as a person, and.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
He oh let me throw some other names to you,
stone cold, Steve Austin, He's coming back.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 4 (34:58):
I have nothing but the highest for Steve Austin. I
think he was he worked for everything he got. He
was a great, great wrestler, one of the handful of
guys that I would love to have wrestled one last time.
I don't have a bad thing to say about him.
I I wished I had heard from him all these years.
I had never heard from him after Owen passed away,
and I think he someone told me I had a
(35:18):
hard time with dealing with stuff like that. And I
think him and Owen had their their uh problems when
they wrestled each other, and uh. I remember seeing Steve
even in Calgary, and I told him, I said that
I felt bad that cause when he got hurt and
hurt his neck, and he was he was pretty hurt,
hurt pretty badly. And I think Owen kind of Owen
(35:39):
used to turn the business off and go home and
spend every moment with the family kind of thing, and
he didn't really think about Steve and his family. And
I I remember I I kind of agreed with Steve
being k disappointed a little. H had hurt feelings towards Owen,
And I told myself, I thought he was right, and
that Owen should have been a little more considerate and
should have called him and to see how he was doing.
And but I mean, I I always liked Steve, he
h him, and I I have nothing but the highest
(36:01):
regard for the Rock. Same thing I saw the Rock.
The first thing I said about the Rock when I
saw him, and I watched him for the first couple
of weeks, I said, that guy's the franchise, that's the
guy that should is gonna take my spot and become
the and he did. He had everything going for me.
He was a good looking guy, a good body, and
(36:21):
a lot of athleticism, and you know, being a third
generation wrestler, he had a good idea what it took
to be a wrestler. And he was a good guy.
Don't I don't know what he's like so much today.
I imagine you know, he's had such a rise now that.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
If you were advising him, would you tell him to
do what he's doing, which is to leave the company
and go to Hollywood and give it a shot, or would.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
You tell him to stay or try to mix the two.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
I tell him to do whatever, mix him happy. He
should never be a slave to the business, but he's
in a position to call his own shots, do whatever
he wants, you know. I you know he but I
will say that I think of all the guys, he
deserved it, and I don't have I always have been
very proud of him and glad that he had the
success that he had.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
I think I got to ask you this question because
wrestling fans, no matter what, believe what they want to believe,
and they think everything's all work and they think that
in the end everyone will come back. And you still
must get asked all the time, you know, when are
you going to wrestle again?
Speaker 4 (37:19):
They asked me that my wheelchair.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
They asked you that in your wheelchair.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Does it ever shock you how much they really don't
buy the reality of the planet Earth? And maybe that's
the beauty of wrestling, is that it's a diversion.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
Yeah. Maybe I don't know. I never I never mind it,
but I find it kind of odd, you know, And
I sometimes I find myself going more than you know,
strictly in my own mind, like could I do it again?
Like if I want to set a goal for myself
and say, okay, look one year from now, I am
going to come back and I am going to wrestle.
Could I do it? And you know, I think I
(37:53):
actually I could. I think, being honest, if I want
to set that kind of goal for myself, I could.
I could. I could pull myself together physically and actually
have one last match. I wouldn't do it because obviously
with conconcussion problems and stuff like that, and there's a
lot of reason why wouldn't do it. But if I
had to do it, and I you know, if it
(38:14):
was something that I could target as a goal to say,
could I prepare myself for me?
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (38:19):
But I mean I have no desire or interest in
ever doing that.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
And if you were going to wrestle one more time
and you needed someone that you could trust, as you
do every time you get in the ring, but in
this case, special circumstances, one match, one time.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Who is it?
Speaker 4 (38:36):
Well, I would have said Kurt Hending up until now,
I'd have probably taught my head say Ben Wall because
he's sort of my favorite. But I would love to
have wrestled Kurt Angle. I think he's like the one
guy that I really love watching and I have a
lot of regard for I've.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Never met him, Brett Hart, the businessman. If you're going
to script it in terms of money, in terms of impact,
in terms of pay per view buys, who is it?
Speaker 4 (38:59):
If I was doing it for strictly in the box office,
I would, and.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
There are those who have done it strictly for box office.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
I would probably wrestle Vance. I guess. I think that's
the natural. I know loser goes to hell.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Match well, some would say one of those guys is
going to hell.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
We got a lot more to talk about in this
unbelievable interview with Brett Hart's.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
With us.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Twelve hundred shows thereabouts. You were on I think our
third show. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
In between those two, I've ever enjoyed one more than this.
A smiling, happy and healthy Brett Hart. A blessing to
everybody in Canada and around the world that has followed
your career. I loved you so much in the ring.
I got to ask you you got pen in hand,
because I'd imagine that's how you're doing it. You're writing
a book, right, not the coffee table book, which will
be coming out as well, but the inside story, is
that correct?
Speaker 4 (40:11):
Yeah, I think I've I've you know, I keep reading
these different wrestling books and I keep waiting for someone
to write it like I am, and thank god, so
far no one has. And I've got a I've written
I think one book already and I'm working on the
second one. And I'm just both finished the second and
(40:32):
eventually i'll finish a third one. I'm doing like a
three part book.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
So you've written a book that has not been released yet.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
I've been released, not been printed or anything.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
So you say, no one's done it the way I'm
doing it. What is that way?
Speaker 4 (40:42):
Well, I'm putting you right in my shoes and I'm
giving you the real inside.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Well, we call them teasers, give me an idea of
the kind of stuff you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (40:51):
It's I'm writing it more like. It's very truthful, you know,
it's not like any anything else. It puts you in
my shoes. From the time I was very small in
my through my whole family, through my whole life with
I mean, I grew up with legendary names like sky
Lo Lowe, and I watched Gene Kiniski wrestle and Luthez
(41:12):
and paddle Corn. I watched all the old stars, the great,
the great wrestlers of the sixties and the fifties, and
uh to have watched all even gorgeous George, who I
don't remember, but I mean I those were those were
childhood memories for me, those kind of wrestlers, and uh,
you know, someone like mankind or whole cold and they
don't understand the history, and they don't appreciate the you know,
(41:36):
even that kind might but but they don't really know.
That's all they went. They came into the wrestling business
in a completely different time and different fays, and that
I bring all that out, and I think I bring
out my family like growing up in such a strange
like a it was an odd life growing up with
twelve kids and a world of wrestling that I remember.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
I think most would accept that as being true.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
It was an odd life.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
It's not a nasty book, it's not a it's nothing,
if anything, I've bared my soul. I don't take shots
at a lot of people. I take a few shots,
but but it's it's not a tell all.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
How about it yourself?
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Though, because you know, one of the things that age
hopefully does to you, to all of us, is that
you get to look back and you say, you know what,
maybe I wasn't all that, Maybe I made some mistakes.
Maybe you know I was a lot more human than
I thought I was.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
At the time.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
What have you learned well in relation to writing the book?
Speaker 2 (42:29):
You mean in relation to your life as you look
back now you know the process of writing a book,
which which I've never done and probably never will because
I don't have a lot to say. But when you
look back with pen in hands, sometimes you're reflective what
you grew up on.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
Probably my home life and my with my wife and
things like that. Those are probably only regrets. And I
you know, it's hard to justify your behavior. You know,
not that it's bad behavior, but it's like life on
the road is something that you have to live life
on the road to understand the life on the road.
It's easy to criticis and and past judgment, but it's
(43:06):
you can't. I don't think you can. I look at
my life on the road and I go all those
years I wrestled twenty three years, and most of it
I was away from home. Maybe you know three hundred
days a year, most of the time, and that's not
including travel days back home, and it makes for a
pretty tough existence. And on the road, my one rule
(43:28):
was survival, do whatever it takes to get home, and
keep your your mind. Don't lose your mind doing this stuff.
And unfortunately, so many of my brothers in the wrestling business,
not my brother's and my family and the restling business,
my peers, so many of them are dead today and
they a lot of them. The wrestling business is so
(43:49):
hard and such a grind. And I said before how
the schedule caused a lot of wrestlers to get hooked
on painkillers and pills and you had to get out
be you had to go to the gym, you had
to take something sleep and I think that was part
of the lifestyle. And I can luckily say including steroids.
I mean, I can say I've stepped around all that,
(44:10):
and I've maybe gone into other trouble, but the trouble
I got into, I'm still alive.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
And we're happy to see that here today.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Let us know your thoughts on all of the things
that we do and nothing we've wanted to do more
than this with Brett Hart. Hey, Brett, thanks for giving
your fans a chance to hear how things are going
for you.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
It's got to be tough, but so are you.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
And that was from one folk, but you know what
millions are thinking exactly that more at a moment the
end of our second interview with Brett Hart, who so
graciously agreed to give us this worldwide exclusive, Thank you
so much for that.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
It means a hell of a lot to us, and
I know.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
To your fans across the country watching you looking so good,
thinking so clearly, it's amazing great to see you.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
I'm so glad to be here. Really, it's a great
opportunity for me to address a lot of things all
at one time.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
So tell me this.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
You said you wrestled for twenty three years, you were
forced to leave wrestling because of a concussion. You've had
the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. If
you could go back and turn back the clock, would
you have done something else?
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Knowing what you know now?
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Yeah, I would somehow I think I maybe would have
swallowed my pride a little bit if I could. If
I could do that, I mean I obviously can't, but
I always believe that my brother Owen's accident, if I'd
been there, that would never have happened. And people don't understand.
People say, oh, you shouldn't put that on yourself, But
I can because if I'd been there, O one would
(45:41):
come to me with everything and say should I do
this or should I do that? And if he'd come
to me with that idea, I would have said, what
are you crazy? And put your life on the line
for the You know, it's funny. When that documentary came out,
Wrestling with Shadows, I remember Owen was really upset about it. Uh.
He loved the documentary, loved it and came up to
(46:03):
me and told me the only thing in it that
bothered him is when I said something about there was
some line in the movie about felt like of it,
you know, it was like putting a gun to my
head and pulling the trigger or something like that. And
he is exact words. He goes, rest in business isn't
worth dying for? And I wan't ever, And I was like,
I wasn't. It wasn't a a suicide cut thing anyway.
But he just really bothered him how much it bothered
(46:24):
me what they did to me or what they were
trying to do to me. And when I remember my brother.
All want to think he was so careful and so cautious.
I don't know what he was thinking when they got
him up there and did that with him. I just
that's about the only regret I ever had.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
But yuh, twenty seconds left.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
I just got to ask, if people want to know
this stage in your life, your health, are you happy to.
Speaker 4 (46:43):
Uh, I'm getting there. I I am. I am happy,
but it's it's hard with the stroke. I'm I'm just
getting back to where I was. I was happy the
day I was riding my bike before the stroke.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Thank you so much to do it was Brett hart Off.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
The Record with Michael Landsberg is brought to you by
the Keg Steakhouse and Bar for great steaks, good friends,
See you tonight. Michael Landsberg's wardrobe supplied by Grafton and Company.
Get it at Grafton.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
I've done this mortar.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
On doll.
Speaker 4 (47:19):
I kind of kind of got stressed out about it,
but I
This is the show.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
We are so unbelievably proud to bring you Bret the
hit Man Heart for the first time since his stroke,
a worldwide exclusive. Where was he immediately after the stroke?
How about his recovery? And Vince McMahon, what does he
think of him now?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Brett Hart One on one Bring it on.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Off the record with Michael Lansbergh is brought to you
by the Cake Steakhous and Bar for great steaks, Good friends,
see you tonight.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I don't want to take too much time here. If
you're watching, you know what we've got today. A great wrestler,
a very good friend, and a really inspirational guy.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Brett Hart.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
This interview is a worldwide exclusive. It's the first TV
that you have done since you had the stroke. So
thank you so very much for trusting us with us.
Nice to see you, Nice to see you looking so good,
glad to be here. First off, we should start with
your amazing recover.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
You look great right now. Here's a little bit short.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
On one hand, I know that you're here to talk
to your fans, but also to test yourself. Everybody knows
that you had a stroke. They may not realize that
it was very serious. That you were actually paralyzed on
the left side of your body and almost died. Sitting
here today, I gotta ask you how you feeling.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
I feel really good. I feel I'm you know, I
am glad to be alive and glad to be where
I am today. When I remember where I was before
when I had the stroke, kind of like if you
were at the bottom of a barrel, I was. I
was at the bottom of a real deep hole, and
I am you know, I remember those moments when I
(01:41):
first had the stroke, in the first few weeks, and
maybe even the first couple of months, these are pretty
dark times for me.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I think we want to put it in perspective for
people that they don't understand because in the world of wrestling,
it's all about a work and it's all of it's
all fake, right, But this is as real as real gets.
You were riding your b you fell, You're in the hospital,
the doctors tell you you have a stroke. You've had
a stroke, like your life's in jeopardy. I want you
to tell me physically what you were not able to
(02:08):
do at that point when they took me into the hospital.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
I all I had was a little bit of feeling
in my toes and a little bit of feeling in
the tips of my fingers. And I didn't. I didn't
get it. I didn't know what it was. I even
I didn't find out till about four in the morning
that I had the stroke that I had one, and
I didn't understand it. And I didn't I was actually
thinking for the first four days, even though they told
(02:34):
me what it was, I kept thinking, I'm just gonna
get up and walk out of here in about a
week or two weeks, three weeks from now, be sitting
in my house joking about this. And it took me
about four days and then I think it was even
my doctor came in and I said, I asked them
the question. I said, I guess I should get used
to the fact that I'm not going to get up
and walk out of here. And he said, you're looking
(02:55):
at six months just to you know, just to recover.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
But there were no guarantees. Right.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
You walked in today with hardly a limp. You and
I talked before we went on camera for a half hour.
You sat and you ate sandwiches, You had a cup
of coffee. We'd laughed about all kinds of stuff, I mean,
this is literally a staggering achievement. And there was no
guarantee at that point that you would ever be able
to walk on assistant, that you'd ever be able to
leave it lead a normal life.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
No, they don't make any guarantees because I think unfortunately
a lot of stroke people don't recover or they don't
get a lot of it back, and so they don't
want to make any big promises. And they were very vague,
and I could see that they were being vague, and
I and you sort of sink depression and you're emotionally
very you're devastated. You know, if you go to a
(03:39):
stroke where everybody on it's and tears and everyone's crying,
and it's a very very depressing hallway to walk down.
But you know, there was a lot of I had
some really good people that especially the physio people in
Calgary at the Foothills Hospital. They really worked well with
me and push me, and I have met a lot.
(04:02):
I have a whole new newfound respect for hospitals and
nurses and the people that in that healthcare system that
not just with me, but all the people in that
in the physio.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
So your life was cruising along pretty normally. You had
been recovering from a post concussion problem that had forced
you to retire from wrestling. You were telling me that
you had an invitation from Daniel Lagali the night you
had your stroke to have dinner with.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Koffy and the head of the United Nations. They had
the summit. I was actually riding my bike to ride
downtown to kind of just check it out the summit.
And yeah, I mean one minute I was on top
of the world. In the next minute, I couldn't even
turn my hand over or anything.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
It was so I want to ask you, then, as
as you sit in this darkness that you talked about,
you know, you're depressed, You're wondering about the rest of
your life. Where was the first ray of sunshine? At
what point did you realize, you know what, I'm seeing
some positive situations here that are developing.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
I don't know, that's hard to answer. I think the
first the first I mean, I was able to stand
on my leg, but my st when I stalk. When
when I did it was able to do that. That
was was a big thing to stand and sort of
be able to walk, but I couldn't. I couldn't really
walk yet I could use the wall or something or
lean on something. But I think M the big one
(05:23):
of the first things. I just remember I woke up
in the morning in the hospital and I hadn't be
able to move hardly anything, just a little bit of
my fingers now, And I remember I just looked at
the nurse. The nurse came in and I went like this,
and that was a big thing.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Now, you were a guy who who had to put
up with enormous amounts of pain in the ring, right,
I mean, that's what that's what it is to wrestle,
To wrestle for Vince McMahon, you gotta be able to
go out there when you were in pain. You got
to go out there when your shoulders killing you.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Contrast the pain that you thought was so extreme from
when you wrestled.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
To what you felt, you know, immediately after your stroke.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
No, no comparison. I mean the stroke. I wasn't y,
I wasn't really in law of pain. But I I think,
you know, it's definitely my biggest battle. You know, like
I couldn't. I couldn't, I couldn't get around being you know,
like having no no, I couldn't even couldn't do anything.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Let me ask you, this did the fact that that
you were a high performance athlete, that you were used
to training in the gym all the time, that it
was all about staying in shape and it was all
about putting up with the pain of being in the gym.
Did that help you or did it hurt you?
Speaker 4 (06:29):
In the beginning because of my muscle mass, say, and
my size and stuff, it's actually works against you because
you have to carry around more weight than uh.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Than normal.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
You're a smaller, thinner guy. It's a lot easier to
start recovering. But uh in saying that, once you get
to say, like we're the halfway point of my like
the six months that I started to recover. After about
three months, all that muscle mass in your old strength
and your your old like your old pistons start everything
(07:03):
starts to come back. Then I start to recuperate faster
than someone that didn't work out, and it starts to
benefit it. But not in the beginning, because you're dragging
around like a fifty pound leg and a you know,
thirty pound arm.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
I got to ask you, and we'll take a break
so we can reload.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
This is amazing. This is Brett Hart.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
It's the first time that he's talked, and we totally
cherish the fact that you're doing it on this show.
I want to ask you about Vince McMahon, I want
to ask you about who responded to you and who didn't,
and lots more.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Brett Hart one on one on off the record.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
The best thing about this is that you're alive and
well and looking really good.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Great to see him, and that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Off the Record with Michael Landsberg is brought to you
by the Keg Steakhouse and Bar for great steaks.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Good friends.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
See you tonight, Brett Hart one and off the record.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
You talked about your situation, how dark it was, how
devastated you were by your stroke, But there was a
point when you recovered and you understood that, you know what,
I got a shot and I'm probably going to be
able to go back to living a reasonable life.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
When you realized that how much.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Had your impressions, your values, what you thought about life,
how much had they changed at that point.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Yeah, I went through so many different phases, Like in
the beginning, you know, in the first few weeks that
I had a stroke, I really I tried not to
get bitter. You know, I was really angry about it.
I couldn't believe it had I couldn't. It's like er,
you know, I was really mad, and I was really
bitter and just really down. And once I started getting
(08:49):
little things back, like I can tell you, it was
a huge thing for me. And I used to get
in the car every day. They picked me up and
put me in the car, take me home sometimes for
a weekend pass I'm living at the hospital, and I
remember I would flip the visor down in the car
and I would stare at it, and I can remember
for for for weeks, maybe months, I couldn't wink. Well,
(09:12):
I was just like that, And I remember flipping it
down one day and going and it was just such
a huge thing.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
All of the ability to wink is of uppermost importance
to So so how do you look at life differently
now than you would have at at the peak of
when you wrestled. I mean, you were known for your
focus to wrestling, But how does your impression change of
the world around you when what you want?
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Well, I think you really get started looking at what's
really important to you, and you know, like all the
things that seemed important the day before, and none of
a lot of the a lot of my hard feelings
towards people didn't mean as much. And it's like, gotta
get on with the important things like your family and
things like that in your life that are so much
(10:00):
more worth uh putting your time into.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
One of the things that you find out besides how
you feel, you find out how fe people feel about you.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, So so you have this you know, you know,
devastating situation which I I wanna know.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Uh, And it's.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Obviously we're talking about people that the folks at home
would know from the world of wrestling or whatever.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Who was there for you? Who do you feel, you know,
really they were there?
Speaker 4 (10:21):
I wanna say, first and foremost obviously my family was
there for me. Uh My wife Julie was tremendous. She
she was really really good, and uh my kids were
all great. And but I have to I have to
say something about Walter Gretzky, who who made contact with
me in the first few days that I was in there,
(10:41):
and was was just a real it was a real
support for me. And I don't even know if Walter
Gretzky knows how much, uh how much he did for me.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Well, I mean he's he's a walking example.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I guess, uh from your standpoint of where you could go,
which is the greatest inspiration. But that's the kind of
inspiration that you can help be for somebody else. Right,
somebone who's watching the show, who is a family member
who was in your position, can can show this tape
to them and say, see I.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Had Roddy Piper was another one. Roddy Piper came up.
I had a lot of the Canadian wrestlers called me
Ben Wah, Jericho Edge, all these guys, and a lot
of the guys that a lot of the Canadian wrestlers
called me for somebody. I didn't get a lot of undertakers.
We spoke and I had a lot of old friends
finally called me, and that kind of thing. It's funny.
After I left the WWF the way I did, and
(11:28):
even the way I left the WCW, I think a
lot of wrestlers were afraid or intimidated to call me,
or maybe they didn't want to open up that can
of worms, or maybe we'd get them in trouble for
talking to me or something like that. But I never
heard from Tim. Many wrestlers even after especially after my
brother Owen's passing. You know, I kind of found myself
isolated because people just didn't want to go there, They
(11:50):
didn't want to talk about it. And with the lawsuit
and all the stuff that was going on.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
You know, you and I have always spoken candidly.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I mean, you've been open and honest, and you know
I always was there anything you don't want to talk about?
Speaker 1 (12:01):
And you say, asked me anything?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And after Owen's death, you spoke about Owen's death and
the people that you felt had betrayed you and all
of that.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
And I know that was so divisive for your family.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
But sitting here today after your stroke and your recovery,
has that helped to bond your family once again? Because
sometimes it does have that effect.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Mm? No, I never. I can't say it did, because
I think the divisiveness in my family was brought about
over for me anyway. It was loyalty to my brother
Owen and the disloyalty to him by some members of
my family. So I don't I never found. I found. Actually,
(12:39):
when I had my stroke, I made I scratched several
names off my guests like my list to come visit me.
I didn't even want them to come in.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
But who was that?
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Uh My sister Diana who was married to Davy boy,
I never really sawed I with her, and you know,
I kind of closed the door on them, and they
don't exist for me anymore. My sister Howie was married
to the Anvil. They were too hell bent on getting
jobs for their husbands rather than thinking of all one
and his family, and I never forgave him for that.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I want to hear what you have to say about
Vince McMahon, but I want to say that your slogan
was the best there is, the best there was, and
we can still say the best there ever will be.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
He's Brett Hart. What's the situation with Vince McMahon? Hold
on to that. We'll find out next.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
As Brett Hart told us, every single time he's been
on the show, go wherever you want. Probably the guy
that you have had the most abrasive, the most on again,
the most off again relationship with is Vince McMahon.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
You came on the show in.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Nineteen ninety seven and talked about Survivors Series, about how
he had betrayed you, about how you smacked him in
all of that sitting here today in two thousand and three.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Do you still hate the guy?
Speaker 4 (13:55):
No, I don't. Well hates a big word, but I don't.
I don't. I don't.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I'll bail you out of anything. I'm not bailing you
out of this way. Do you still hate Vince mcmaan.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Nah, I think I've moved on past that a little bit.
I I certainly don't forgive what he did. I don't.
I don't care for the how they justify it, you know,
they try to minimize it all today, like it was
nothing and it was part of it was just doing business,
and it was it was never doing but never about business.
It was just about being dishonest and unfair. And uh,
(14:29):
I'd never been too happy with what they did. But
when I had my stroke, he called me in the
hospital and I had I was just I was such
a wreck at that time that he actually caught me
completely off guard. It was just Vince McMahon on the phone,
and I think he was I thought it was a
(14:51):
nice gesture anyway, and I we talked a little bit
and I was, like, I say, pretty pretty feeble and
pretty devastated. And I didn't even what to say. And
I we started talking and I've I've had a guy,
a friend of mine that's working on a coffee table
book with me at the time, and he does all
(15:11):
these really first rate guy named Alan Turwitz doing these
coffee table books, and who I'd seen in Montreal like
four days before this stroke, and this is like six
days later, and he was doing this coffee table book
and we were talking about pictures. I said, I don't
have any. I don't have access to it, not any
of my shots with the belts and all that kind
of stuff and or my footage. And so then I
(15:35):
when Vince called, was the first thing I asked him.
I said, I have a guy doing a coffee table
book and I and we just had a little talk
about He said, anything you can, you know, cause he
made this promise to me once before actually my brother
Owann's funeral, and he you know, he you know, went
back on his word there. But we talked that day
and he goes, just have him called me anything you want.
(15:57):
And I thought that was a good sign and nice,
nice gesture, and I thought, you know, I for me,
I have to find a little closure too, you know,
I don't want to keep dragging around all this bitterness
and uh, hard feelings towards Vince McMahon for forever. I
don't I don't know what happened with I still don't
(16:17):
know what happened with my brother Owen because it never
went to trial and never never knowing, there was never
a no one ever justified or explained to me what happened,
including Martha or anybody else. That's just a you know,
someone paid for that to be put away, and that's
sealed in a box somewhere. But I mean, i'd once
(16:39):
I kind of realized there's there's nothing I can do
to get back to that, to carry it around and
have it's just a it's just a big weight on
your back all the time. And I I had enough
weight on my back when I had the stroke. So
I just thought, here's a chance to kind of he's
making a he's offering an Olive Brandt's, and I thought
it would be in best interest for me and my family.
(17:03):
Even the uh there's I have nephews in my family
that have aspirations to to wrestle when they want, you know,
if you're gonna get into wrestling, where you're gonna go,
you know, And I didn't want them to feel that
they couldn't go work for Vince if they want to someday.
I have a nephew, Ted, who's actually quite a good wrestler,
and uh Davy boys son Harry. They're both great little wrestlers,
(17:24):
and I think they are little hesitant to go work
for Vince or and maybe Vince's hesitant to hire them.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
M I gotta ask you this, though, knowing what you
know now, the way your life has evolved, the way
wrestling has been, I'm sure the best thing that ever
happened to you and the worst thing. If they were
your kids, would you try to keep 'em away from wrestling?
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Yeah, I mean I I do steer my kids away
from ITNT, but if they really wanted to do it,
I mean wrestling. I mean I'd rather I'd rather my
kids got into wrestling than uh, you know, if he
was doing drywall or something. Not that there's anything wrong
with doing drywall, but it just wrestling was exciting and
a lot of fun, and you know, I saw the
(18:06):
world and there's a lot of good things that come
out of wrestling. Unfortunately, there's a lot of bad things
that happened too. It's not a business that takes care
of its own, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
There's not a man in the planet.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
There's not a family in the world that could talk
about the good and the bad of wrestling like you, guys.
I want to find out though. You sat face to
face with Vince McMahon. Right, we'll talk about that when
OTR returns. Just a short amount of time left in
(18:40):
this I have to say this has been one of
the truly remarkable.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Experiences that I've had on the show.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
As you know, and I've told you many times that
off the record, oways Brett Hard a lot. You came
on our show when we first started. You put trust
in us right away. You drew us an audience, and
for that we're totally thankful. And for the fact that
you're sitting here in this worldwide exclusive you know, it's
pretty wonderful thing.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
No one's happy to be here than me.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Well, I have to say that you have educated people
on bravery and coming back, and you've shown us where
you are. You had a meeting with Vince McMahon, which
I'm intrigued with, just a couple of weeks ago. Right,
you guys have face to face, tell me what you
were thinking in Florida at his place.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
And what came from that meeting.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Well, I just wanted to kind of know that I
was I think a lot of people in this couple,
my sisters again, kind of painted this picture of me
being this I was so out to get him, and
I was driving the lawsuit, which I never had anything
to do with Martha's lawsuit. I certainly stood beside her
on it and tried to be as much help as
I could, but I was not driving it. And I
(19:39):
think he thought that I was really the driving force
in the family that was trying to sort of get back.
There's a lot of people that really, which I think
is just stupid to think that I had hard feelings
for Vince what happened in Montreal in comparison to anything else,
you know, it's like, you know, I think what happened
with Olman?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
What'd you feel when you and I'm interested because this
is the meeting of two guys that had fought it
out publicly, including on this show. You talked about how
much you hated each other. He ridiculed you on this show.
When you saw him face to face, what was your
feeling and did he shake your hand?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Did he hug.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Oh yeah, he had me a big hug, and I
think it was you have people have to understand Vince
in a lot of ways was like a father to me.
We were really close. We were so close prior to
that last week that I worked and it was it's again.
It was such a shame. I think it was some
really bad judgment on his part what happened, and I felt,
really I think I thought it was time to kind
(20:34):
of heal the wound a little bit and let him
know that I didn't wander around my house my fist
clinched cursing his name everywhere, and not anymore, at least
not anymore.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
He clearly used to do with that.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
And I think I just wanted I thought, you know,
he made a gesture, and I'm going to make a
gesture back and let him know that I want peace.
I don't want to keep carrying around the hard feelings.
And he was nice and we we actually talked about
the you know, maybe doing a DVD on my greatest matches,
and we're kind of getting around some of the sore
(21:08):
spots that we had, and I certainly don't want to
say anything that I got to ask.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
You upsets all that, would you come back? Would you
not as a wrestler? Of course, I'll ask you that
got a chance, not even appearance.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
I don't think so I have. It's highly unlikely.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
What about if he came to you with a thank
you to or saying you know what, we didn't say
goodbye correctly, which is obviously the case back then.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
I have thought about maybe if the audience was there,
you know, because I have to look at it from
his side, what is he going to benefit? But if
there was an opportunity to go back, and and that's
one of the things I said to him, I said,
I just want to be remembered for my contribution. You know.
That's what's bothered me, is you he erased everything I
did or you didn't erase it, but you've sealed it
(21:51):
so no one really sees it, and I'm not remembered
for what I did.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
What do you remember of Kurt Hennick? Obviously he's passed away.
That news just came to us passed the way yesterday.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Uh? It is that was really upsetting for me cause
Kurt was I would say, Kurt was in one of
my the top like my five best friends in the
wrestling business, and uh, we had such a great chemistry together,
and uh, you know, I can't believe that it happened.
But someone asked me a few months ago, maybe six
months ago, said, who is your favorite wrestler? Who If
(22:26):
you could have one guy in the ring and you
could be wrestling him, who would it be? And I
feel good now saying that. I said it was Kurt Henning,
and uh, we had such great matches. And you know,
when you were l you look at your career, my career,
and you look how you sort of climbed up. I
really climbed up wrestling against Kurt, and that was you know.
I won the Intercontinental Belt against Kurt. And if anyone
(22:49):
knows the true story about what happened in uh the
Summer Slim that year is at Kurt hurt his back
pretty bad, and uh, a lot of wrestlers wouldn't have
showed up that day, but Kurt showed up in the
Summer Slam like amazing.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I'm gonna do something I didn't think i'd shown to do.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Which is cut you up because I couldn't shut you up.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
And that's the best way it could be.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
We'll see you next time Brett Hart two one week
from today.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Off the Record with Michael Landsberg is brought to you
by the Keg Steakhouse and Bar for great steaks. Good friends,
See you tonight. Michael Landsberg's wardrobe supplied by Grafton in Company.
Get it at Grafton.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
You know what?
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Look at that that good file. I can give a
real smile if it's today.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
It's part two of our amazing worldwide exclusive one on
one with Brett the hit Man Hard. Today he'll talk
to us about some of his not so favored people
like Sean Michaels, like Triple h and what does he
think about what Hulk Hogan had to say about him
on this show Today, One on one with Brett Hart.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Bring it on.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Off the Record with Michael Landsberg is brought to you
by the Cake Steakhouse and Bar for great steaks. Good friends.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
See you tonight.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
We are back with Brett Heart.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
It's part two of our world exclusive with one of
Canada's best love athletes. I argued with Vince McMahon on
this show. I said he's a Canadian icon. Vince said
he's not. I think I have been proven correct, given
the warmth and the love the Canadians have shown for you,
and you have sat on this set in the first show,
and you showed us all that you are so incredibly
far back from your stroke. Thanks so much for joining us,
and you know what, it's just great to see you
(24:39):
looking so good.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
My pleasure.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Okay, let's talk to some wrestling now. Let's talk about wrestlers.
Let's talk about Hal Cogan. He was on this show
a short time ago and he had some nice things
to say about you, but he also pointed to the
fact that maybe there had been some tension, at least
from his perspective. Take a look at this clip. Then
I want you to comment Brett Hart. Here's what Hulk
had to say on OTR.
Speaker 6 (24:58):
I love Brett Hart, I love the Heart Family. I
feel horrible about the tragedy and the problems over the
last decade with the Heart Family. And I just had
a very crazy letter come to my house from Brett
Hart's manager or agent, and when my book came out,
the gist of the letter was how could you trash
Brett Hart at a time like this? And they actually
(25:21):
sent an article where Brett had written this unbelievably beautiful article.
I don't know when it was, but it said if
there's anything true or real and professional wrestling, it's Terry Boy.
I've seen him with the kids, and the article is unbelievable.
And I felt bad to see the article and the
guy thinking I was trashing Brett. This was Brett Hart's manager.
And I explained to my wife and said, I don't
understand the letter. I mean in the book, I just
(25:41):
told what happened.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
So Clummage, Oh, he's wrong, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
He nice to know nothing changes you lay it on.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
I certainly want to open up a big thing with
him again because we I did trash him a lot
years ago when I was and he he didn't pass
the torch to me. And he can go ahead and
say it was a misunderstanding with right, yeah there was,
and he says it like what happened was I was
supposed to wrestle Hogan in SummerSlam for the belt, and
(26:13):
we even took pictures, which is maybe he doesn't remember this,
or Vince, but I remember we took pictures with a
tug award with the belt for the poster, so we
know it was a title match, and so f over
the weeks, Fince tells me that Hulk isn't isn't gonna,
isn't gonna wrestle me cause he doesn't wanted to drop
the belt to me, And so I confronted Hulk on it.
(26:36):
We had a big blow off about it, and then
we go into confront Vince and Vince goes, it's a
non title match, and I'm since, when you know, cause
I knew that it was said to be a title match,
and so then I after I kind of got over that,
and of course Yoko got the belt, and people it's
not so much the belt. People don't understand. It's not
the belt. The belt in those days was not contracts
(26:57):
and stuff. The the champion is the high paid guy
in the company. And when the boss of the company
says you're getting the belt, means I've earned the spot
to become the highest paid gun in the company. And
hul Cogan takes upon himself to redirect my fate and say, no,
you're not getting it. He's going to get the main
event money and you're still in the middle of the
card or wherever. And I certainly think I worked hard
(27:19):
enough to earn that spot, and I think it would
have been a great historical match so he I did
kind of knock him for years about being a bad actor.
I don't know if I said anything wasn't true. But
when I got to WCW, I sort of saw things
a little differently because I felt that Vince tried to
(27:40):
railroad hulk a little bit in the end, maybe even
using me to do it. And I thought, I feel
like I was wearing his shoes a little bit.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
So guys able to work together in WCW.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
Yeah, we buried the hatchet and I shook his hand,
and I never said a bad thing about him or
wrote a bad thing about him again. And I wrote
a really nice column about him. And then he wrote
in his book that he doesn't know what my problem is,
and I always bash him everywhere hence today.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
What was the politicking like in w c W, Cause
cause I know a lot of people look at at
you when you came over there. You were making a
lot of money, and there were people that actually suggested
on this show that that was a reason for tension.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
What was it like back then?
Speaker 4 (28:18):
All I'm gonna say it was like a lunatic asylum.
And I think of Eric Bischoff, who I like as
a person, I really do, and I sympathize maybe with
whatever he was dealing with. But Eric Bischoff was a
lot like that Wizard and the Wizard of Oz, you know,
with all the but he had no he really had
no idea what he was doing. They never came up
with one idea for me, and anytime I did come
(28:40):
up with the idea, it was usually turned away.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
And it was it was.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
It was the most screwed up place I ever worked for.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
And you've worked up in some pretty screw screwed up places, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
It it was a I don't know who said. You know,
when I think about how much I came like Vince,
you look at what Vince did after I knock him
ou Montreal. He took that whole storyline and built himself
into the corrupt promoter and made a you know, basically
turned the fortune of the company around through that.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
And we'll see you off.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
The fact that that that he was smart enough to
take the tension that he had with you, and the
fact that you smacked him and the people hated him
and turned it into a billion dollar empire.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
It no, not so much. I mean, it doesn't surprise me.
I always kind of kind of figured you'd do something
like that. But I think what disappointed me, and maybe
he does make me angry sometimes, is how poorly the
WCW used me. I mean, they really, they couldn't have
done a worse job. And you think, you know, the
scary thing is is what they were paying me. They
(29:42):
paid me great up until they hurt me, and then
you know, they just didn't know what to do. Vince
McMahon said to me, he said, w CW will never
know what to do with a Brett Hart. And I
remember I even said that to him in Florida. I said,
you're so right. They didn't have a clue what to
do with me from the second I got I think
there was a lot of people that were stabbing me
in the back behind closed doors.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Were stabbing you in the back.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
I'll never know. I've had people tell me that. I
have a lot of people to say it was Hogan,
but I don't necessarily know that.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Can you have.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Friends in wrestling, because because at the very top where
you were, it's all about passing the baton to someone else,
It's all about worrying about.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Who's going to come up behind you and take it
from you.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
It must be so enormously difficult to have real friends
who are similarly at the top with you.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
Yeah, I no, you can have lots of them. It's
the guys with the right attitude and guys that respect.
I think a lot of the real good workers, like
the Henning like who.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Like let's give you examples of guys because I asked
you who stabbed you in the back. But who's the
guy that you can remain friends with, even if you
got to pass the baton to him or he's got
to give it to you. It's still friendship above and beyond.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
Lots of them like Ben Wah, Kurt Henning, even guys
that aren't necessarrely the great workers, but but guys with
a good attitude and try hard.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
You know.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
I never had a problem about winning or losing in
a wrestling match, contrary to what people might try to
say today. But I mean, I never ever had a
problem with that as long as I understood that the
guy that I was wrestling was willing to do the
same thing for me if it came down to it,
Like I didn't even I wouldn't care about tossing a
coin for wrestling match. Was it was, it was a
(31:25):
bit of a brotherhood and there was a lot of
guys that worked for themselves.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Well, I want to ask you about a guy who
may fall into that category, Sean Michael's back in nineteen
ninety seven. He was the guy with Vince that you
were most pissed off with. And we'll talk about Sean
Michael's Triple H a lots more when OTR returns with
Brett the hit Manhart.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
Off.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
The record with Michael Landsberg is brought to you by
the Keg Steakhouse and Barn for great steak Good friends,
see you tonight, Up, I see Delton and the other team.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
All right, let's talk about the state of wrestling right
now with Brett Hard who is looking good and sounding good.
And I want to ask you about Triple H. When
you left the WWF. Back then, he was kind of
a minor player. He was an up and coming guy,
but he was kind of a minor player. Now, not
only is he incredibly big in the ring physically and
of stature as well, but also influence in the company.
Writes it, he books it, he does an incredible amount
(32:29):
of things. Is that a good thing for the company?
Are you surprised? And is he up for it.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
I don't know. I always thought of Hunter as a
real as kiss. He had his nose so far up
Vince's ass that and and Sean's and he was never
a straight guy. I don't think. I don't have much
regard for Hunter. I thought he was a a not
a straight guy, never one of the boys, never one
(32:57):
of the guys in the dressing room. He had his
own agenda and was very sneaky, kind of cowardly kind
of guy. That's my take on him.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Part of the course in wrestling, though, because because those
guys do get ahead.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
Yeah, unfortunately they do. Yeah, But I don't think, you know,
when I look back in my career, I like to
think that I was loved by my The drestlers and
dresser had a lot of respect for me, and they
appreciated the work I put in, and they understood that
I was a team player. And I don't think anyone
could say the same thing about a Hunter Helmsley.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
How about Sean Michaels, because he is coming up on
this show in a couple of weeks, and whatever you
say now will play this clip for him.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
He was the guy that you wrestled against.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Survivor series that took the belt from you, that you
felt betrayed you, that you felt was afraid of you
in the end.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
What are your thoughts about him now?
Speaker 4 (33:44):
I'd say he was a two faced, lying chicken shit
and I'm probably being nice to him.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
And now.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
I don't think that's a snake that never changes stripes
hunt Sean. He was the kind of guy that would
make friends with you or bury the hatchet with you
ten minutes later, and ten minutes later he'd be out
there stabbing in the back again. You couldn't make peace
with him, you know, he was he was a guy
(34:15):
and the guy that was you know, I think he
had a put a new meaning to the word sort
of prima don or self. He had such a huge eagle.
And you know, I think you always got to have
a lot of ego to become a champion. I'm sure
as people say, I have an ego and and I
think I do where everyone does. And if you're going
(34:37):
to be a big star, you have to have an eagle.
You have to start of comes down at believing in yourself.
But Sean was a guy that was very insecure and
very uh I think weak as a person, and.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
He oh let me throw some other names to you,
stone cold, Steve Austin, He's coming back.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 4 (34:58):
I have nothing but the highest for Steve Austin. I
think he was he worked for everything he got. He
was a great, great wrestler, one of the handful of
guys that I would love to have wrestled one last time.
I don't have a bad thing to say about him.
I I wished I had heard from him all these years.
I had never heard from him after Owen passed away,
and I think he someone told me I had a
(35:18):
hard time with dealing with stuff like that. And I
think him and Owen had their their uh problems when
they wrestled each other, and uh. I remember seeing Steve
even in Calgary, and I told him, I said that
I felt bad that cause when he got hurt and
hurt his neck, and he was he was pretty hurt,
hurt pretty badly. And I think Owen kind of Owen
(35:39):
used to turn the business off and go home and
spend every moment with the family kind of thing, and
he didn't really think about Steve and his family. And
I I remember I I kind of agreed with Steve
being k disappointed a little. H had hurt feelings towards Owen,
And I told myself, I thought he was right, and
that Owen should have been a little more considerate and
should have called him and to see how he was doing.
And but I mean, I I always liked Steve, he
h him, and I I have nothing but the highest
(36:01):
regard for the Rock. Same thing I saw the Rock.
The first thing I said about the Rock when I
saw him, and I watched him for the first couple
of weeks, I said, that guy's the franchise, that's the
guy that should is gonna take my spot and become
the and he did. He had everything going for me.
He was a good looking guy, a good body, and
(36:21):
a lot of athleticism, and you know, being a third
generation wrestler, he had a good idea what it took
to be a wrestler. And he was a good guy.
Don't I don't know what he's like so much today.
I imagine you know, he's had such a rise now that.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
If you were advising him, would you tell him to
do what he's doing, which is to leave the company
and go to Hollywood and give it a shot, or would.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
You tell him to stay or try to mix the two.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
I tell him to do whatever, mix him happy. He
should never be a slave to the business, but he's
in a position to call his own shots, do whatever
he wants, you know. I you know he but I
will say that I think of all the guys, he
deserved it, and I don't have I always have been
very proud of him and glad that he had the
success that he had.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
I think I got to ask you this question because
wrestling fans, no matter what, believe what they want to believe,
and they think everything's all work and they think that
in the end everyone will come back. And you still
must get asked all the time, you know, when are
you going to wrestle again?
Speaker 4 (37:19):
They asked me that my wheelchair.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
They asked you that in your wheelchair.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Does it ever shock you how much they really don't
buy the reality of the planet Earth? And maybe that's
the beauty of wrestling, is that it's a diversion.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
Yeah. Maybe I don't know. I never I never mind it,
but I find it kind of odd, you know, And
I sometimes I find myself going more than you know,
strictly in my own mind, like could I do it again?
Like if I want to set a goal for myself
and say, okay, look one year from now, I am
going to come back and I am going to wrestle.
Could I do it? And you know, I think I
(37:53):
actually I could. I think, being honest, if I want
to set that kind of goal for myself, I could.
I could. I could pull myself together physically and actually
have one last match. I wouldn't do it because obviously
with conconcussion problems and stuff like that, and there's a
lot of reason why wouldn't do it. But if I
had to do it, and I you know, if it
(38:14):
was something that I could target as a goal to say,
could I prepare myself for me?
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (38:19):
But I mean I have no desire or interest in
ever doing that.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
And if you were going to wrestle one more time
and you needed someone that you could trust, as you
do every time you get in the ring, but in
this case, special circumstances, one match, one time.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Who is it?
Speaker 4 (38:36):
Well, I would have said Kurt Hending up until now,
I'd have probably taught my head say Ben Wall because
he's sort of my favorite. But I would love to
have wrestled Kurt Angle. I think he's like the one
guy that I really love watching and I have a
lot of regard for I've.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Never met him, Brett Hart, the businessman. If you're going
to script it in terms of money, in terms of impact,
in terms of pay per view buys, who is it?
Speaker 4 (38:59):
If I was doing it for strictly in the box office,
I would, and.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
There are those who have done it strictly for box office.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
I would probably wrestle Vance. I guess. I think that's
the natural. I know loser goes to hell.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Match well, some would say one of those guys is
going to hell.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
We got a lot more to talk about in this
unbelievable interview with Brett Hart's.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
With us.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Twelve hundred shows thereabouts. You were on I think our
third show. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
In between those two, I've ever enjoyed one more than this.
A smiling, happy and healthy Brett Hart. A blessing to
everybody in Canada and around the world that has followed
your career. I loved you so much in the ring.
I got to ask you you got pen in hand,
because I'd imagine that's how you're doing it. You're writing
a book, right, not the coffee table book, which will
be coming out as well, but the inside story, is
that correct?
Speaker 4 (40:11):
Yeah, I think I've I've you know, I keep reading
these different wrestling books and I keep waiting for someone
to write it like I am, and thank god, so
far no one has. And I've got a I've written
I think one book already and I'm working on the
second one. And I'm just both finished the second and
(40:32):
eventually i'll finish a third one. I'm doing like a
three part book.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
So you've written a book that has not been released yet.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
I've been released, not been printed or anything.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
So you say, no one's done it the way I'm
doing it. What is that way?
Speaker 4 (40:42):
Well, I'm putting you right in my shoes and I'm
giving you the real inside.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Well, we call them teasers, give me an idea of
the kind of stuff you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (40:51):
It's I'm writing it more like. It's very truthful, you know,
it's not like any anything else. It puts you in
my shoes. From the time I was very small in
my through my whole family, through my whole life with
I mean, I grew up with legendary names like sky
Lo Lowe, and I watched Gene Kiniski wrestle and Luthez
(41:12):
and paddle Corn. I watched all the old stars, the great,
the great wrestlers of the sixties and the fifties, and
uh to have watched all even gorgeous George, who I
don't remember, but I mean I those were those were
childhood memories for me, those kind of wrestlers, and uh,
you know, someone like mankind or whole cold and they
don't understand the history, and they don't appreciate the you know,
(41:36):
even that kind might but but they don't really know.
That's all they went. They came into the wrestling business
in a completely different time and different fays, and that
I bring all that out, and I think I bring
out my family like growing up in such a strange
like a it was an odd life growing up with
twelve kids and a world of wrestling that I remember.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
I think most would accept that as being true.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
It was an odd life.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
It's not a nasty book, it's not a it's nothing,
if anything, I've bared my soul. I don't take shots
at a lot of people. I take a few shots,
but but it's it's not a tell all.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
How about it yourself?
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Though, because you know, one of the things that age
hopefully does to you, to all of us, is that
you get to look back and you say, you know what,
maybe I wasn't all that, Maybe I made some mistakes.
Maybe you know I was a lot more human than
I thought I was.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
At the time.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
What have you learned well in relation to writing the book?
Speaker 2 (42:29):
You mean in relation to your life as you look
back now you know the process of writing a book,
which which I've never done and probably never will because
I don't have a lot to say. But when you
look back with pen in hands, sometimes you're reflective what
you grew up on.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
Probably my home life and my with my wife and
things like that. Those are probably only regrets. And I
you know, it's hard to justify your behavior. You know,
not that it's bad behavior, but it's like life on
the road is something that you have to live life
on the road to understand the life on the road.
It's easy to criticis and and past judgment, but it's
(43:06):
you can't. I don't think you can. I look at
my life on the road and I go all those
years I wrestled twenty three years, and most of it
I was away from home. Maybe you know three hundred
days a year, most of the time, and that's not
including travel days back home, and it makes for a
pretty tough existence. And on the road, my one rule
(43:28):
was survival, do whatever it takes to get home, and
keep your your mind. Don't lose your mind doing this stuff.
And unfortunately, so many of my brothers in the wrestling business,
not my brother's and my family and the restling business,
my peers, so many of them are dead today and
they a lot of them. The wrestling business is so
(43:49):
hard and such a grind. And I said before how
the schedule caused a lot of wrestlers to get hooked
on painkillers and pills and you had to get out
be you had to go to the gym, you had
to take something sleep and I think that was part
of the lifestyle. And I can luckily say including steroids.
I mean, I can say I've stepped around all that,
(44:10):
and I've maybe gone into other trouble, but the trouble
I got into, I'm still alive.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
And we're happy to see that here today.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Let us know your thoughts on all of the things
that we do and nothing we've wanted to do more
than this with Brett Hart. Hey, Brett, thanks for giving
your fans a chance to hear how things are going
for you.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
It's got to be tough, but so are you.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
And that was from one folk, but you know what
millions are thinking exactly that more at a moment the
end of our second interview with Brett Hart, who so
graciously agreed to give us this worldwide exclusive, Thank you
so much for that.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
It means a hell of a lot to us, and
I know.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
To your fans across the country watching you looking so good,
thinking so clearly, it's amazing great to see you.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
I'm so glad to be here. Really, it's a great
opportunity for me to address a lot of things all
at one time.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
So tell me this.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
You said you wrestled for twenty three years, you were
forced to leave wrestling because of a concussion. You've had
the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. If
you could go back and turn back the clock, would
you have done something else?
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Knowing what you know now?
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Yeah, I would somehow I think I maybe would have
swallowed my pride a little bit if I could. If
I could do that, I mean I obviously can't, but
I always believe that my brother Owen's accident, if I'd
been there, that would never have happened. And people don't understand.
People say, oh, you shouldn't put that on yourself, But
I can because if I'd been there, O one would
(45:41):
come to me with everything and say should I do
this or should I do that? And if he'd come
to me with that idea, I would have said, what
are you crazy? And put your life on the line
for the You know, it's funny. When that documentary came out,
Wrestling with Shadows, I remember Owen was really upset about it. Uh.
He loved the documentary, loved it and came up to
(46:03):
me and told me the only thing in it that
bothered him is when I said something about there was
some line in the movie about felt like of it,
you know, it was like putting a gun to my
head and pulling the trigger or something like that. And
he is exact words. He goes, rest in business isn't
worth dying for? And I wan't ever, And I was like,
I wasn't. It wasn't a a suicide cut thing anyway.
But he just really bothered him how much it bothered
(46:24):
me what they did to me or what they were
trying to do to me. And when I remember my brother.
All want to think he was so careful and so cautious.
I don't know what he was thinking when they got
him up there and did that with him. I just
that's about the only regret I ever had.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
But yuh, twenty seconds left.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
I just got to ask, if people want to know
this stage in your life, your health, are you happy to.
Speaker 4 (46:43):
Uh, I'm getting there. I I am. I am happy,
but it's it's hard with the stroke. I'm I'm just
getting back to where I was. I was happy the
day I was riding my bike before the stroke.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Thank you so much to do it was Brett hart Off.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
The Record with Michael Landsberg is brought to you by
the Keg Steakhouse and Bar for great steaks, good friends,
See you tonight. Michael Landsberg's wardrobe supplied by Grafton and Company.
Get it at Grafton.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
I've done this mortar.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
On doll.
Speaker 4 (47:19):
I kind of kind of got stressed out about it,
but I
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.