🤡 MATT BORNE'S COMPLETE DOINK CONFESSIONS: The Clown's DARKEST Secrets! 💀

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another edition of the R Video Shoot Intery series.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
They were joined by a true legend in the sport
of professional wrestling, Matt Bourne.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Thanks for being here with us today.

Speaker 3 (00:08):
It's my pleasure.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
My very first questions you would be, is uh talk
about your background in the in the business and then
you grew up in the wrestling business.

Speaker 3 (00:15):
Yeah, I uh, I was born into it. I Uh.
I can remember going to the shows with my dad
in uh Amarillo. It's probably the earliest I can remember
carrying trying to carry his bag. Jeez. I must have
been about four or five. And then we lived in

(00:36):
Houston for a while. My I think I was five
six seven, lived in Houston, and then we moved uh
the Pacific Northwest and lived up there for pretty much
my whole life growing up. Went to school there and
used to go with my dad quite a bit when
I was young, and til I got into high school,
and then uh then I uh got into doing my

(00:59):
own thing, you know, and got away from it for
a while. Hm.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
How close were you and your father growing up?

Speaker 3 (01:05):
We're real close. My parents divorced when I was ten
and my father got custody of me, so I pretty
much grew up in the dressing room cause I my
dad had custody of me. He was on the road
a lot, wow, and uh I would go with him
and he would uh drive home and get me to
school the next day. It was kind of rough, but
that's just the way it was.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Hm. How big was your father on uh kfe back
then with you?

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Oh? Kfabe was real big back then. It's uh yeah, yeah,
I can remember uh when my dad and Lonnie Maine
had their big feud and Beauregard was involved with it.
Uh Larry Pitchford's name, and we used to uh have
to sneak him in the car to get him to

(01:50):
the uh arena and uh we'd have to drop 'em
off like a block away. And Kfabe was real strong
back then.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
I'm sure you have like a ton of early road stories,
you know, from traveling around to dad.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, yeah, I can. I've got a lot. I Uh
I can remember traveling with uh my dad and raced
Evens and Pat Patterson well back in the Northwest, and
when Ray and Pat were tag team world champions, and yeah,
a lot of guys, a lot of guys. I I
wouldn't know where to start HM.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
So I guess, at what point did you say you
wanted to get into the business. Did you know early on?

Speaker 3 (02:30):
No? Actually I Uh I went through a uh period
of time in high school where I disliked the business
because I was in amateur wrestling, and uh excelled in
amateur wrestling, and uh I didn't like the business. I
looked at it as, uh, how does it relate to

(02:54):
amateur wrestling? And I couldn't see any relation there. So,
but when I was I was going to Portland State
University and Jesse Ventur was UH in the area, and
he rented an apartment for my dad and he was
my neighbor, and we had a fourplex there and uh
I took care of the four plex and lived in
one of 'em, and Jesse and h Terry his wife

(03:17):
lived in another. And so I used. I became good
friends with Jesse and we used to party at nights
and when he would come home, and UH, he'd come
and get me and I'd go over and sit and
watch Saturday Night Live with him. And then I got
to got to think, and you know, what am I
gonna do with my life? And I liked the life

(03:38):
that Jesse was leading and he was making good money,
and uh so I kind of looked at it, like,
you know, I think I can do this. I knew
the business. So I went to my dad and uh
told him I wanted to break into business, and he
tried to discourage me at first, but I think he
just wanted to see if I was real serious about it.

(03:59):
So that's how I really got started. I never really
trained much. I was always always athletic, and uh, I
just I think I got in a ring three or
four times through a few drop kicks and this that
the other thing, and then they threw Don Owens threw
me in the ring when in a tag match with
my dad against uh von Steiger's.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
I was gonna ask you, was your father helpful to you?

Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah? And no, my dad. My dad just more or
less told me that if you don't if you if
you're gonna stay in the business, you'll know in a
couple of years. And if you don't got it, you'll
know it and get out.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Who would you consider your mentor early on? What would
it be your father or any of the other boys take.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Unto their wing.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
My father really didn't really, he just kind of watched
he'd give me advice now and then. But Roddy, Roddy Piper,
you know, we became friends when I broke in and
we traveled. He uh, he kind of like took me
under his wing.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
What are your early memories of uh Roddy from Portland? Oh?

Speaker 3 (05:08):
Boy, they were wild, they were wild. Uh. Killer Tim
Brooks was there and Roddy and Killer lived together on
the other ende of the town and I used to
uh go over there and hang with them, and uh
it got pretty wild, you know, it was big. Oh yeah,
oh yeah, always always drugs and alcohol.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
H we'll talk about that coming up later. That Moly
memories of your first match.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
Very nervous. I uh got got basically is he back
then you didn't lay the matches out, moved by move,
you know, I mean you get you how are you
gonna start the match? A couple spots during the match,
and how you're gonna finish it, and uh pretty much
it's all improvised, you know, in the interim there. So

(06:00):
it was I found myself freezing during the match, and
I can remember Von Steiger was we broke into this
four way and Von Steiger had me in the corner
and I'm I'm pounded on von Steiger and I froze
and I turned around to see what my dad was doing,
and on a Stiger turned me around and said, come on, kid,
keep it up, you know. So I turned Brown around

(06:21):
and start throwing a bunch of potatoes on him and
got through it. But it was it was pretty nerve wracking.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
So you didn't have any training beforehand as far as like,
you know, learn how to vomp, or it was pretty
much in the ring training.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah. Like I said, I just got in a ring
like three or four times before. But I used to
h I used to drive the ring truck and set
the ring up and do some refereeing, and I would
get in there and hit the ropes, you know. I mean,
I was I was a natural when I came to
that stuff. I could drop kick, you know, first time
I ever dropped kicked. I you know, I was right

(06:59):
on the and I saw guys taking bunks all the time,
and I took a couple of bunks. It was easy
for me, you know.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
I guess at what point did you smart enough to
the business d Did you consider yourself smart when you
first started wrestling.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
Or I was smart when I was about uh ten
years old, uh, ten or eleven. I I wasn't sat
down and said this is how it is. I just
was like a slow progress, you know. I I can

(07:31):
remember being in the dressing room when I was about
seven and one of the guys, uh what was his
n Jay York Jay York snatched me up, body slammed me,
gave me a back breaker, snatched me in the headlock,
gave me a couple of punches to the nose, and
flipped me around all this stuff. When I'm flying around,

(07:53):
I didn't know which way was up. And uh, then
he sat me down and I went, wow, you know,
I heard all these pops and I felt my back
on his knee, but I I didn't feel anything. It
was like amazing. So that's how I was kind of
like smartened up. You know, this is how it works, kid.
And uh And I'd watch him. I'd listen to him

(08:14):
talking over their finishes when I was eight nine years old,
and yeah, it was this progress.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
What are some of your other early memories about the
Portland territory?

Speaker 3 (08:27):
You mean when I was broken Yeah, well, when I
when I broke in, Buddy Rose was booking it and
business was real good. Piper had just come up from
Frisco and uh business was real good. Who else was there? Uh,

(08:51):
Colonel of Beers, Buddy Rose Piper, Uh, Adrian Adonna's was there?
One star? Uh business was good. We us we'd run
They'd run Portland every Saturday night and then two t
then two Tuesday specials a month, so six nights a month.

(09:12):
They were like selling 'em out to say, three thousand
people every every show.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
Getting back to Uh, Ronnie Piper, what would you consider
the best advice paper ever gave?

Speaker 3 (09:21):
You? Stay close to your friends, stay closer to your enemies, right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Lonnie mean uh, some of your members of watching.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
Lonnie oh Man. Lonnie was Uh. Lonnie was a phenomenal worker.
He was always drunk. Uh. And when I was when
I was a kid, I used to idolize him. I
mean a young kid, like ten eleven years old. I
used to always wanna be around him. He was always

(10:00):
he was always ribbing somebody. Yeah. And actually, when you
when you talk about Lonnie Maine, Vince McMahon asked me
about wa about my relationship with Lonnie when I was
growing up in the business, and when I was telling
him about Lonnie and how I saw Lonnie, my relationship
with him as a kid, seeing him pulling ribs on

(10:23):
the boys all the time and always joking around. That's
when Vince threw the clown gimmick at me. Is during
that conversation, is the first time I heard about a
wrestling clown?

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Right, We'll get into that definitely. Dwink. You mentioned the
past interviews that bad influence has had on you. Can
you ex expand on that too?

Speaker 3 (10:48):
Bad influence?

Speaker 1 (10:49):
Is it what that Lonnie me m maybe had on you?

Speaker 3 (10:51):
Well? No, I he was he I it was v
He was very an impress I was r at a
very impressionable age and uh I, Uh I grew up
thinking that the rules didn't pertain to me because I
was Tony Born's son and the way k Fabe was

(11:14):
and it was like I knew something that most people
didn't and uh I could get away with things because
I was Tony born son. And so I grew up
in a distorted atmosphere, you know. Uh And it had
detrimental effects on my life, you know, and my decision

(11:37):
making and the choices that I made in my life,
and you know, and you know, I I it's not
that I was ignorant. It's not that because I've never
I'm not a stupid person, you know. Uh, but I
just it was like everything it was a party. The
whole business was a party. And back in my early

(11:58):
days in wrestling, Uh, if you weren't a partier, you
would kind of got brushed to the side, cause everybody
that was that was making money, that was on top,
they were all partiers. They were all pushing the envelope,
all of them did. The ones that didn't, the ones

(12:21):
that al actually had strong norms, strong morals. Those guys
it was like they didn't belong in the business. M
you know, the business was like a bunch of uh
wild men, you know, a bunch of kids, kids, grown
up kids.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
I'm wanna talk about that coming up definitely. And at
the interview progresses. Uh were promoters of guys harder on
you because of your father or were the easier on you?

Speaker 3 (12:54):
There? It was both some promoters. Don Owens was harder
on me.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
How did he treat you?

Speaker 3 (13:03):
Well? He uh, he didn't want wrestlers to come to
start wrestling in Oregon and stay there. He used to
have this saying that if you thinking about buying a
home out here in Oregon, if you're one of the boys,

(13:23):
make sure it's on wheels. For whatever reason, I'm looking
back on it, you know, he he didn't want to
have to deal with somebody because there was a lot
of guys wanting to come out there and settle there,
you know, because it's a beautiful part of the country.
Short trips. Territory is great territory. You know, you could
when it was hot, you could make good money. But

(13:47):
he had a problem, like, you know, getting rid of
guys when when their time was up, when the run
was up, it's time to go, you know, if they
bought a house there, you know, it was kind of
hard for him to say, sell your house and leave, right.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
Did you travel a lot with your dad in the
early days ya as a worker?

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Oh? At at when I got into business.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yes, did you travel with him?

Speaker 3 (14:08):
No? No, No, not much at all.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
I guess how important was it for you to have
a background on amateur wrestling when you broke in?

Speaker 1 (14:15):
Could it help you a lot?

Speaker 2 (14:18):
No?

Speaker 3 (14:18):
Actually, what helped me a lot was UH. When I
was young, seven eight nine years old, I I took
a lot of UH dance. I wa I took a
lot of dancing lesson. I took ballet and uh actually
ballet helped me a lot, you know, when it comes
to balance and right just control of your body and
being able to do a lot of things.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
What are your memories about Dutch Savage.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
Dutch? Dutch? Uh was a guy that uh you know
what you I He couldn't believe everything he said, you know,
and you had to watch cause everything he's he would say.
He could be a great guy. You know, I'm not
going to sit here and knock him, you know, because

(15:07):
you know, I don't want I wouldn't want somebody to
do that to me, you know, and they do, but
you know, I'm not going to be like that. I've
had problems with Dutch. But Dutch is a good man,
you know, he's he's a spiritual man now, I believe.
But as far as my memories go, he was Dutch
was always out for Dutch, and it seemed to me

(15:30):
that if he had to step on somebody to move up,
he wouldn't think twice about it.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Memories of Adrian Adonna's.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
He was a wild man. He was a wild man.
He was nuts, he was crazy, he was but for
being a big fat guy. He was very Yeah, he
was very athletic. There was a time when when I
first broke in, Dutch Savage was running the show out
for don Owans and he wanted Dutch wanted Adrian to

(16:04):
go out and beat me up in in my match,
which I didn't know it at the time. Yeah, yeah,
he wanted h Adrian to hurt me and uh, Adriane
went out there and you know he he actually tried,
but to no avail. You know, I f I when
I was went out there with him, I started working

(16:26):
and he started shooting with me and trying to take
me down. But he couldn't take me down, you know,
I mean, he couldn't do it. I got real nervous
because I was real green and here's this guy trying
to shoot with me. But I found out later that
you know, Adriane actually came up and told me that
Dutch wanted him to hurt me.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
Hm. But well what was that all about?

Speaker 3 (16:52):
Dutch and my dad had problems and it carried on
over to me.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Right and memories of Rip Oliver Revolver.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
Rip. When Buddy went to UH New York for Vince Senior,
Rip got the book Rip Uh didn't have the mind
that Buddy had. Rip was a good worker and everything,
and uh but Rip, Rip used to UH had some

(17:25):
problems with Rip because Rip would go behind my back
until dawn that he didn't wanna work with me, and
we had some problems. Rip was out for Rip. You know,
he surrounded himself with guys that, uh that weren't phenomenal workers,

(17:46):
weren't good workers. But you know, I'm I c I
shouldn't even say. You know, he was just a guy
that he was trying to protect his his position. You know,
somebody else come in and had ideas. You know, even
though Rip was the book or he would uh he
would twist 'em. He would uh he would try to
brush 'em underneath the carpet, you know, and just to

(18:09):
protect his his own interests.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
Memories of uh Billy Jack Kynes.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
Billy Jack. Billy Jack was a bouncer at a bar
that I used to go in to, uh not far
from the sports arena Supportatorium sports Arena in Portland. And Uh,
he was huge man. He was all gassed at the
gills and he was real nice. You know. He used
to take care of me, you know, I did, and
I never had to wait in line, you know, just

(18:35):
brush me right in and we be We became pretty
good friends. And uh he just wanted to break in
the business. And when I was away, I was down
in Louisiana working for Bill Watts, and he had uh
gotten in with Don and Don sent him away t
I believe, up to Calgary to break in the business,
and then went back to Portland and did very well,

(18:58):
skyrocket at fat probably faster than anybody ever had, you know,
in the business, right to the top. Yeah, Billy, Uh,
Billy was quite an athlete.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Okay, the grappler Lynn.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
Detton, good Man, good friend of mine. Yeah, he's a
great guy. Uh.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
Buzz Sawyer early members.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
Of Buzz, early memories of Buzz. Buzz was probably one
of the best athletes I've ever owned. Just unbelievable, strong past,
just a real tough guy. Uh. He was phenomenal amateur

(19:38):
wrestler and he was a phenomenal worker, probably one of
the best.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
But he had his demons, you think, oh yeah, well, yeah,
big partier.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
Buzz was uh a big partier. Yuh yeah, well that's
what killed him.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
W Well, what do you think actually happened with Buzz Sawyer?
Cause we talked to different people, your different things. Yeah,
he's involved with uh, you know deal and you know
the cocaine overdose and you know Billy Jack, we did
a shoot with him and he claims that Buzz is murdered.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
No, no, it was a murder. Buzz just reached the
end of his rope. You know, he did he would uh,
he would do things that you know, I would think
how and the heck can you you know do stuff
like that, you know, but Buzz, you know, y y,
the stuff you know, when you do it in the
excess and the way that Buzz would do it, you know,

(20:31):
you do things that you normally wouldn't do. You know.
Buzz was a great guy I've seen Buzz. I was
coming back from Richmond, Virginia with Buzz to Charlotte one
night and there was attractive trailer that it went off,
uh went overpass and it was down and there was
a fire in the cab of this truck and Buzz
we pulled over and Buzz went down there tried to

(20:52):
save this guy, but the door wouldn't open U and
the Buzz watched this guy burnt up and Buzz risked
his over my ife to try to save a stranger. So,
you know, I'm sure he had his demons, but he Uh,
he was a good man too. You know. I I
prefer to think of the positive cause I liked Buzz
even though we had this love hate relationship. You know,

(21:15):
I I admired him in a lot of ways, and
he had his good qualities too.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
What are your memories of the UH travel schedule for Portland?

Speaker 2 (21:23):
You said it was pretty easy compared to working for
Bill Watson's territory, where I was crazy.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
Right right, No, it was it was like, Uh, they
ran Salem every week, which was only fifty miles down
the road, Eugene every week, which was a hundred miles
down the road. It was the easy territory.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Kurt Henning came into the UH territory early on in
his career.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
What are your memories of young Kurt Henning?

Speaker 3 (21:47):
Kurt Henning? Kurt, Kurt and I got really became pretty
good friends. Uh. We broke in around the same time.
We were the same age. Uh. Kurt was a great guy.
He was Uh. He had a Fuji influenced UH Kurt
a lot, So Kurt became a river like Fuji.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
I was gonna ask you see a lot of his
ribs early on.

Speaker 3 (22:08):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Kurt was always pulling ribs.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
Early memories of uh Andre the giant.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
Andre Andre was uh. Whenever he would come to into Oregon,
he would uh he would always make sure that I
partied with him afterwards. One night, can I share this,
yes with Andre? I had this Mustang hatchback and where
wrestling and hood River was about forty miles outside of Portland,

(22:38):
and Andre got to the show. I don't know how
he got there, but he wanted me to party with
him afterwards. So I said, okay, you ride with me. Well,
I got bucket seats in this Mustang, so I push
a seat back and lean it back, and so he
gets in there. It's only forty miles and uh, we'll
be back soon, right. So he gets in the car

(22:59):
and I tell I gotta make this stop, you know.
So I make this stop at at this dealer's house
cause I'm picking up some coke. Right. This was in
This was in eighty I'm gonna say eighty three, eighty two.
And uh, so Andre sitting in the car. Now, he's

(23:21):
all cramped up in the car like this. I said,
I'd be right back, Andre. So I parked on the street.
I'd go in and there's four or five people sitting
around the in the living room and I I'm getting
my stuff and I'm and they're all talking and they're
all high and everything. I hurry up, hurry up, I
got I got Andrea the Giant out in the car.
And they're all laughing. Yeah, sure you do, you know,

(23:43):
so they keep eye. I said, really serious, I got
Andre out in the car and he's cramped in the car.
You know, my car is small, right, So so they
give me my stuff and I go back out and
they follow me out and they walk out and they
see Andre sitting in my car and his head's about
like this and his hair's about like that. Us and uh,
they kind of freaked out about that. They're probably still

(24:03):
talking about to this day, if they're still alive.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
That's awesome. What are you memories of, uh, the legendary
angle you did with uh Buddy Rose and your.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
Sister, Well, that wasn't an anger, that was a shoot
really yeah. Uh huh yeah, he married my sister. Yeah,
and uh it wasn't a real good relationship. It was
very volatile and uh. Uh one night, I uh got
a phone call from my sister about two in the morning,
and uh Buddy was beating her up. So and I

(24:33):
was working this angle. I was working this program with him,
you know about the thing cause he's married my sister.
And this was like a Thursday night. And uh two
nights later, I'm wrestling Buddy in the main event in
a uh chain mattress. And so I jump in my
car at two in the morning and rushed over to

(24:53):
his house and then they're fighting out in the front
and uh, I jump out of my car and my
sister takes off into the house and Buddy takes off
after her and sh shuts the door behind him, slams
the door behind him, and I'm right behind Buddy, and
I just when the door slam shut, I hit it
and it was almost like a cartoon thing, be cause

(25:15):
it came right off the off the wall, you know,
the door just slammed right down. So the door's off
the hinges and everything. And I about that same time,
the cops have been called. So I grabbed Buddy and
I'm beating the heck out of Buddy on this fireplace,
and so there's four or five cops standing over me going,
mat let him up, Matt let him up. You know,

(25:36):
they it was it wasn't like it would be today.
You know, i'd been tasered or you and I would
have been chaotic. So they separated us and then finally
they took me to jail. So I spent the night
in jail. And uh so the next night I got
this show with Buddy and they turned away like two

(25:57):
thousand people. They place was packed and I was there,
but Buddy nobody.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
He started to work with you.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
He uh, he did, he came, but don Owens was
back and forth on the phone. He he yeah, he
was a little nervous about it, unless I'd say.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
Did you guys work that night?

Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah? We worked. We worked. Any problems, no problems, no problems,
no problems. But the finish of the match was I
come off the top rope with the chain around my
fist and I nail him, knock him out and cover him.
But when I came off the top of the rope,
I actually hit him with the with one of the
with one of the links of the chain and it

(26:37):
laid him open underneath his eye. But it was a
total accident, h right, But it was kind of ironic,
because you know it was it was sweet.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
Any other memories stick out in your head about you know,
Portland Territory before.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
I move on?

Speaker 3 (26:52):
It was just I got a lot of great memories.
It got wild when when uh, when Grappler uh took
over the book and a later latter days of the territory. Uh.
And I was living in Texas and uh Don would
bring me up for three weeks at a time and
it was just like crazy, the just the drugs, the coke.

(27:15):
It was out of way, way out of him.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
How did you get started in drugs?

Speaker 3 (27:24):
These? When I start? When I broke into business, I uh,
I uh with with Roddy actually hm, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
We did an interview with him and he talked all
about his drug use and uppers and downers and coke.

Speaker 3 (27:38):
And yeah, Roddy UH wanted to know, you know, I
knew people. I'd never done it, you know, but I
knew this guy that dealt it and uh, but I
had never done it. And Roddy was talking about it
one night and I said, well, I can get that stuff.
So I got it and started doing it just off

(28:05):
and on, you know, first and then uh, you know
and back then the cocaine was was like ninety percent pure,
you know, and it was it was just very enticing
to snort pure cocaine, you know, right, It made you
feel really good.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
Yeah, I guess do you think that was a part
of uh, the business of necessity?

Speaker 3 (28:32):
It went, it went with the territory, right yeah. A.
And after that when I left, I went back to
North Carolina in eighty two when Roddy was back there
and uh Wahoa McDaniel was the booker. So when I drove,
I drove back and I went to Roddy's place. So
Roddy takes me down to the office to meet it

(28:53):
with Wahoo. Soon as I walked into office, Hey, well,
how you doing? He sits down, opens his drawer and
throws two eight balls of coke on his desk for
Roddy and me. And I'm going, you know, so it's
like I didn't have a chance.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
Right, Well, I guess I was gonna ask you, how
did drugs change you?

Speaker 3 (29:16):
It's just like they would change anybody. I mean, just react,
you know, just react.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
A lot of your guys from your talk about parting hard,
would you think that a lot of the guys would
have time conforming to a ww drug policy today if they.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Were working a lot of what guys, what do you mean,
guys that grew up in your territory or in your time.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
Well a lot of them are dead now, most of them. Yeah. Yeah,
in fact, I can't believe Roddy's still alive. God bless them. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Well, so you think like a lot of guys would
have a hard time I'm conforming to I guess, uh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
It was like I said, you know, back then, if
you didn't have that wild side to you, you you
were kind of brushed it. You had in order to
be in the business and make money and and have
that seemed to have that quality to draw money, you
had to have that mentality. You know, it's it's hard

(30:23):
to explain. But the guys that are like were normal
and you know, we're had morals and didn't do drugs.
Those guys didn't didn't have the the flare, the color,
you know, as the guys that were off the wall
a little bit.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
You know, totally understand. Memories of working in Hawaii with
Peter Maivia for Peter.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
Or Peter, Yeah, Peter was a scary guy. He used
to scare me because I would go over to the office,
which was in his apartment, little Dewey was running around,
Dwayne was running around, and Dwayne was like and and
Peter and his wife would be arguing and fighting, and

(31:09):
she was as mean as he was. And he'd be
yelling and screaming and simooning at each other. And I'm
nervous as I'm all tense, and all I want to
do is clover there and get my two hundred dollars
o me or whatever, you know. And and there's Dwayne
running around like this is old hat, you know, it's nothing.
You know. I'm looking at him, and he's looking at

(31:30):
me and just do it, carrying on what he's doing,
like like he this is normal stuff to him, you know.
But Dwayne was like my memories of Dwayne because his
mom used to babysit my son, my oldest son when
we were in Charlotte, and Dewey was always real perceptive

(31:51):
of everything, was always quiet. He was kind of a
real quiet kid and watching everything and just soaking up
everything like a sponge, you know. And he was always
a good kid.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Any good road stories from that territory from what from where.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
I was there for about three months now. Just spend
a lot of time on the beach and you know,
smoking that good herb.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
You know, it's a great place.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
How did you wind up working for the Crocketts?

Speaker 3 (32:20):
Uh? Nineteen eighty Uh Paul Jones, Uh and my dad
were friends, were pretty good friends years before and uh
I had broken I'd been working in Portland for about
a year and uh my dad made some calls for me.
Talked to Paul Jones and that territory was on fire

(32:40):
with steamboat and you Jay young blood and doing really well.
Got me booked.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
What are you memories of other Crocketts as promoters?

Speaker 3 (32:51):
I always thought that they were kind of arrogant. You know,
Jimmy Crockett was kind of a arrogant guy.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
A lot of people say that.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
Yeah, do you think they wanted to be uh part
of the boys?

Speaker 3 (33:05):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, Yeah. Jimmy Crockett used to uh
like suck up the flair, you know, right this flare
would you know Rick would be Rick? And uh, you
know how he always had to have women around in
the bars and stuff, and you know, buying pictures of
Kamakazi's and yeah, Jimmy Crockett was around he was always

(33:28):
uh like right there in the max trying to get laid.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Who'd you travel with back then that territory.

Speaker 3 (33:35):
I traveled with uh Steamboat, traveled with Flair, traveled with Buzz,
traveled with UH Johnny Weaver, traveled pretty much traveled with
everybody if went on.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
You know, any good road stories with uh Buzz Sawyer
on this time period, cause you were teaming with him too,
I believe it.

Speaker 3 (33:56):
Oh yeah, we'd we'd pull over alongside the road and
fight sometimes. Huh yeah, we pulled all alongside the road
one time cause I in in Virginia. There's uh a
law that you can't have fuzzbusters, you know. So I
had this Fuzzbuster and I was driving. I got pedro
morause in the back seat. So I'm holding the Fuzzbuster
down here cause I don't wanna get pulled over and busy.

(34:17):
I'd just stick it up there, you know. And so
he's arguing with me and I, you know, one thing
led to another, and I pulled the car over, you know,
cause I didn't really know Buzz as well. I was
told him the shit shut up, you know. So we
got out of the car and I found out how
strong and tough. He was real quick and uh Pedro
was freaking out stupid guys getting the fucking car, you know.

(34:41):
But yeah, that was a wild night.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
Memories of uh rock Flair from this time period. Did
he get along with Flair?

Speaker 3 (34:52):
Yeah? Yeah, I got along with Flair back then. Yeah.
And then when I went back to Oregon after that year,
I spent in Charlotte, you know, whenever Flair Flair was
he had won the title and then he was going
around all the territories with the title, and he would
come back to Orega, out to Oregon, he would call me.
I'd hook him up with the room. He would stay

(35:12):
at the Red Lion out there, So I got him
hooked up out there, and I'd party with him, you know,
when he was out there, and uh but yeah, and
then my relationship with him kind of soured for one
reason or another, you know. But yeah, and when I
first broke in, Flair and I were pretty good friends.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
Memories of uh Ricky Steambook from the Crockett Archery.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
Oh man, Ricky was always a great guy. He was
always helping, uh opening, uh, lending a helping hand to
like me and young guys in the business. Yeah, he
was a big help, just learning how to work and
it's a psychology and keeping that fire and yeah, Ricky's all.
I've always had Ricky on a pedestal. A lot of

(35:52):
respect for Ricky.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
No, he wasn't a party or anything like that, obviously
he got oh yeah, oh yeah he was a part
Oh yeah, oh I see, I didn't even know that.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
I bet it. Yeah he was a party. Okay.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
What about uh Waham McDaniel. As as far as a booker,
did you consider him a good booker?

Speaker 3 (36:07):
Yeah? I I he didn't really stand out to me,
you know, as a great booker. But I wasn't around
him long enough to to see that. Uh, whether he
was or not, I just know he was a wild man. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
How how long were you in that territory for?

Speaker 3 (36:26):
I was there nineteen eighty the entire year of eighty
and then I went back in eighty two for a
short period of time and then w uh then I
went to uh Atlanta when Olie had the book down there.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
I'm gonna ask you about that.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
When when you left uh the Crockett's ritory, did you
think you brought your bridge there or.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
No? No, I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
When you were there.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
I guess what was the highlight of your career for
uh the Crockets, your main programs.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Who were some of the guys that you really worked with.

Speaker 3 (37:07):
Oh, well, Buzz and I were partners, right, they gave
they put the mid Atlantic straps on us, and uh so, yeah,
I I can't even remember exactly who we worked with,
you know, but the territory was doing good, you know,
I and I was doing well. Yeah, we would have
good matches, and you know, every every night was, uh,

(37:29):
go out there and tear it up.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
You know when you went back to Portland, how different
was it for you coming back now as the established star?

Speaker 3 (37:38):
No? It w It was a good thing. It was
a good thing because Dawn Buddy talked on and hey,
Matt's coming back. So at first I came back and
I was just working prelimbs and then worked my way up.
And when Buddy started going out with my sister and
then married my sister, it it like put me right
there on top. Right.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
Yeah, mkay, Let's talk about uh oly Anderson and Georgia
Champions Wrestling.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
What are your memories of uh Olie?

Speaker 3 (38:04):
Uh only, uh, I didn't have a lot of respect
for Olie. Olie was uh like a bullie. I remember
one uh one time when went to the UH to
where they do the TV in that UH studio and

(38:27):
uh was there early and they had some guys that
wanted to break in the business. So Cosro was there,
the art cheek was there, Buzz was there, and Olie
was there. And so this one guy, it's got a
great physique, nice guy. It seemed like a nice guy

(38:50):
and uh good and uh So only wanted to discourage them,
you know. He didn't wanna have anything do with him.
And the guy could have been a could have been
a start. Do you wanna get that phone? You know what?

Speaker 1 (39:06):
You should have been disconnected.

Speaker 3 (39:08):
It's not really good.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
This is not good, very thing.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
So So only wanted to beat him up, you know.
And so the Sheet gets in there with him, and
the guy ankle picks the sheet and puts the sheet
run on his butt a couple of times. Ain't right,
And uh, I'm kind of laughing because the Sheet always
prided himself and being a shooter. So Buzz gets in there,

(39:35):
she gets out, and the Buzz gets in. The Buzz
beat him up pretty good, and then the Sheet got
back in and beat him up some more so that
by this time this guy's beat up bad. And then
Olie gets in there when the guy's already beat up,
and Olie really puts it to him. And uh, you know,
why do that?

Speaker 1 (39:52):
I heard about the story before too.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
Yeah, yeah, I didn't even know. I never saw the
guy get after that. Hum, but Rick Rude was breaking
in about the time, and he was in the back
cause he was getting a try out or something or
at that time. And you know, it just not a good,
bad taste in my mouth.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
A lot of people say that about only a lot
of people that only come.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
So well again too, you know, ol Oi was always uh,
it was always like it's his way, and he always
wanted everybody to think that he was tough. You know, Okay,
I'm sure he was.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
So what right? Did you like the territory as a
whole though, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:35):
Not really, not really. We're going up to uh Ohio
and Michigan every other week at the time. You know,
that was cool, but no, I uh, I didn't particularly
like it all that much.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
What are your memories of again of uh Roddy Piper
here you are working with Roddy again in that territory.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
Well, Roddy was like in Charlotte and then he he
was Roddy was just always he was like that. He
was probably at the height of his uh of his
party days. You know, he would uh and imember, he'd
go the wrong way, you know, for three hundred miles,
you know, uh, and not realizing til he and he's
supposed to be in Nashville and he's in uh, he's

(41:18):
on the frick. He's in Myrtle Beach or something. You know.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Well, any good road stories from uh the Georgia Tartardi's.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
Uh, jeez, jeez, yeah, yeah, I got road stories. It
was uh had a rental car. We're up in uh,
Ohio and it's Paul Ellerring and Ron and me and
I'm in the back seat, Orange driving and we're all asleep,

(41:52):
going on the freeway, all of us orn two. He's
driving and he he s he sideswipes, rides at the
guardrail and it's like a cliff, probably two hundred feet
down and uh, he's riding that guardrail. We'll wake up
and I can remember just freaking out. I'm in the

(42:15):
back seat and I'm cussing him out, you know, and
he's all nervous and you know it was close.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
That's crazy close. You actually teamed with Arne Anderson Donner. Yeah,
what do you rememberies?

Speaker 3 (42:29):
Teaming with arn arn was uh just breaking in the
business and uh it was cool. Arn. I always liked arn.
Arn was a good guy.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
Did you know he had the uh in factor back then?
The pardon me did?

Speaker 2 (42:41):
Did you see, like I the in factor? Did you
know he was gonna make it into the business.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
Yeah, yeah when I was with him, and uh i'd
met him in Louisiana working for Watts. That was I
can't believe that was his first territory, right, Yeah, yeah,
I believe. I I knew he did. He had it.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Paul Ellering also managed you. Uh I think in Georgia too, true. Yeah, yeah,
what are memories of uh Paul?

Speaker 3 (43:03):
Paul? Uh? Paul was funny guy. He was always reading
the uh Wall Street Journal and he's kind of a
quiet guy, you know. Yeah, he kind of distant stuff.
But yeah, he could party with us too though.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
Hm.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Memories of uh Jake the Snake.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
He's well man, there's another one that I It's amazing
he's still alive. Jake was a kind of guy that uh,
one of the very few guys that you know when
somebody's high, you know, you know, I know I can
look at somebody and tell him they're high. And but

(43:52):
Jake had ye, he couldn't really tell all the time,
you know, he could uh he could be see, cause
I was never the kind of guy that would Uh.
I never liked to go out and get in the
ring when I was all messed up. You know, I
couldn't function, you know, h on goo in that direction,

(44:15):
you know, I uh, I preferred to take something to
calm me, not speed things up. But uh, Jake, Jake
had snort a bunch of coke and do whatever he did,
smoke crack or whatever, and go out and work. And
and I could never understand how he could do that,

(44:36):
you know, just for himself, for his own comfort zone,
you know, to be in the ring. And and I
shouldn't heck, wouldn't wanna be out there with somebody that
would smoking crack, you know, give him my body to
somebody that was all all over the place. M hm.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
Did you ever have any issues as far as the
guy's not wanted to get in in the ring with.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
You at all? Or well yeah, well yeah, I had
a reputation of just being stiff. I mean, I I
had heard some comments made about me from the Ultimate
Warrior that I would try to hurt guys. I never
tried to hurt anybody in the ring, you know. I
Uh I got stiff with guys in the ring that

(45:18):
uh but I was protecting the business, you know, this
way I saw it anyway. Uh I never intentionally broke
anybody's arm or anything in the ring. You know. I
would never do that. You know, I would get stiff
with him, I'd s be real snug with 'em, and
I would go against the plan of the match, maybe

(45:40):
to uh, but I always saw it as protecting the business, right.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
You know, when did you work with GYM? Was that
in Texas?

Speaker 3 (45:47):
When was that?

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Okay, I'll talk about that territory coming up, definitely memories
of uh Teddy Biasse.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
Tad Ted Ted Ted Ted, I'm I'm gonna see Ted
pretty soon anyway, uh Ted. I always liked Ted. Ted
and I were partners in Louisiana. Him and uh Jim
Duggan and I were a rat pack and uh Ted
was uh God, I can't say anything about Ted yuh

(46:17):
t Ted except I love him, you know, he's good man.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
He was in Georgia too, I think right around the
time you were there.

Speaker 3 (46:23):
Mmm, No, I don't think. No, he wasn't there when
I was there.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
Okay, Yah, what about uh Magnum Tier memories of Magnum.

Speaker 3 (46:31):
Magnum he uh he came to uh Richmond, Uh cost
him one night when he he approached Buzz and I
wanted to be a wrestler, and uh Buzz hooked up
with him and broke him in the business and took
him out to Oregon. Later found out that they were related.

(46:56):
Magnum and Buzz saw you were cousins.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Huh.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
And they didn't even know it for probably a year.
I found out they were cousins. That uh mag It
was a good man, you know. I I always got
along good with him, and Buzz kind of screwed him
around a few times.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
And we did an interview with MiG him and he
said that Buzz took advantage of himself.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
Yeah, and uh sad it happened.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
Now you were there, uh when Hawk and Animal broke
into uh George chevs your presently, I believe.

Speaker 3 (47:25):
Right, Yeah, that was uh yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
Is it true that you had something to do with
their success in a weird way.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
In a weird way, Yeah, I I got I Uh
actually I quit and uh I had run into some
problems up in Ohio and I'd missed a co I
missed a couple of shows and uh so, uh OLEI
was I I've I remember correctly, Oley was kind of

(47:55):
like reprimanding me from missing a couple of shows by
leave me off a couple shows and then booked me.
And I just quit and so kind of left Arn
in a bad way cause we're partners. But uh so
they needed some Actually that's when, uh the Road Warriors
got their break, as they stuck 'em in there and

(48:16):
gave him a big push right off the bat.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
You know, we were interial impressions of those guys.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
Oh there were monsters, you know, I d I didn't
know 'em personally. I just watched 'em. They were real green,
but they uh they were uh, they were just huge.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
You know a lot of people say they were scared
to work with you on Buzz when you guys were
a tight team.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
Did you know about that?

Speaker 3 (48:35):
Or they were afraid of Buzz not me? Then I
don't think they were afraid of me. They were afraid
of Buzz, cause Buzz Buzz would uh, I don't know,
he'd call 'em out, you know, I mean I would
have never called 'em out. Those guys are freaking huge,
you know. But Buzz was uh, he was off, you know,

(48:56):
and he called him out a few times.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
And who was some of the guys he called out?

Speaker 3 (49:03):
And I both of both the Road Warriors, I believe
he called both of them out, and uh, oh man,
did they go at it? I think so. I think
I think Animal and him did an dressing room when
I went in there.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
But uh was Buzz pretty hard to get along with her?

Speaker 3 (49:27):
Yeah? At times? At times?

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Yeah, memories of uh Paul and roof.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
Paul was always Paul was a very respectable guy. I
you know, I was around Paul in UH Georgia, and
then I was around Paul and in w w F
around wrestling he won. Paul was kind of stated to

(49:56):
himself a lot, you know, as far as I I
wasn't really around Paul outside of the arena, but yeah,
I always I was like Paul worked out with him
a few times in gym.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Why did you end up quitting Georgia? Did you feel
there was broken promises.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
Or yeah, yeah, exactly, and Olie. I guess Olie was
uh just Olie and I just just didn't get along.
You know.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
I think from there you went back to Charlotte. I
believe right.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
From there I went back to Oregon.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Yeah, how did you wind back? Uh in Charlotte?

Speaker 3 (50:38):
Nah, I was in Charlotte before. I was just in
Charlotte for a short period of time before I went
to uh, uh Georgia.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Do you think that if you stayed in uh Charlotte,
you would ad a bigger push with uh arn.

Speaker 3 (50:52):
I wasn't in Charlotte with Arned.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
Okay, I'm getting my notes a little bit confused.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
Yeah, yeah, talk about working for a bill.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
Bill Watts. Uh I I always resp had a lot
of respect for Bill Watts. Run run a tight ship.
He expected his guys to uh. He used to have
the samee. You know, he didn't care if guys went
out and partied and got in fights. But you better
not lose a fight in the bar rush you fired. Hm.
You know he had that attitude. You know he was uh,

(51:24):
he was kind of like a very militant.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Would you consider him a bully?

Speaker 3 (51:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (51:32):
Was he hard on you? R?

Speaker 3 (51:33):
No? No, well he was UH. There. We were at
wrestlm and Roe, Louisiana one night, and UH, Doug and
I were the main event in the tag match, and
Doug and left the ring before me, and he's fighting
with three guys out in there in the UH audience.
And I looked around and I saw him fighting with

(51:54):
these three guys that were all about his size. So
I jumped down there and I to his aid, and
and UH some problems happened, and I had knocked this
guy out and he lost his I believe he lost
his eye. And UH went back to the dressing room
and everything was great. I was like a hero, you know.

(52:17):
Bill Watts used me as an example. You know, this
is what you this is how you take care of
the business. You know, Da da da dah. But anyway,
it came out to UH that a lot of problems
came out of that. Bill Watts lost his license in
Monroe for a period of time and got sued. Dug
and got sued, and I was gone, you know, And

(52:38):
actually I I'm the one that did the damage, you know,
which I gotta carry with me for the rest of
my life. But all of a sudden, I was a
bad guy, you know.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
So that led to uh falling out I guess between
you and Bill or was that the incident?

Speaker 3 (52:53):
Yeah, yeah, uh falling out there and with Dugan as well.
For a long time, Doug wouldn't even speak to me. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
And you saved him, huh.

Speaker 3 (53:02):
And I saved him and he thanked me that night,
hugged me. I was his savior. I was his best friend.
And then he l he got sued and lost a
piece of property over it cost him quite a bit
of money. Hm. Yeah, and then I was a bad guy.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
How long were d uh working in that territory for?

Speaker 3 (53:20):
I was there for about eight months?

Speaker 1 (53:22):
Kay, memories of a junkyard dog when you were.

Speaker 3 (53:25):
There, Jyd? He Uh, he was the man, he was
the franchise. Yeah, Jyd was it. You know. We used
to work in uh every Monday in New Orleans and
uh we used to pack the house every Monday night.

(53:48):
They loved Jyd.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
What are your memories of taking the mask off him
when he was staggerly?

Speaker 3 (53:54):
Oh you heard about that huh in Houston?

Speaker 1 (53:57):
I I believe so.

Speaker 3 (53:59):
Yeah, Well he was all he'd been up for two
or three days on the powder and it's dbi Ostie
and I against him and for I don't even know
who his partner was, but the whole idea was to
try to get the mask off and proves Jyd. So
I'm he's got the shirt on. It says on the front,

(54:20):
it says isn't me. On the back he says, we're
staggered Lee. You know, so dB Ossie and I are
both in the ring. Pounded on him, and I told Teddy,
I said, rip his shirt off him. We're trying to
get his mask off. We're trying to you know, that
was the whole idea. You know, it's a T shirt.
He's got hundreds of them. So I ripped his shirt

(54:43):
off of him. I'm read getting his mask and then
I said rip his shirt off, and said ted starts
rip his shirt off, and I rip his shirt off,
Rip your shirt off him? And he knocks ted off
and then he punches me right in the face, and
so I pounced right up and his eyes get all
bugged out out, and I grabbed him and just held
him down, you know, said hey man, what are you doing?

(55:04):
What's going on? You know, and he's like kicking and
he's he's he's actually actually like a turtle on his back.
He's couldn't freaking really move. I'm just holding him, but
that you know what it was. Uh? He apologized later,
but he just he thought I was trying to upstage him,
exactly as w as the words that he is. He said,

(55:24):
you're trying to upstage me, But I was just trying
to make the match, you know.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
Al right, right? Who did you travel with in itself?

Speaker 3 (55:31):
Dugging dug?

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Yeah, you're also part of the t dbs's draft pack
there or was it different territory?

Speaker 3 (55:36):
Just just Louisiana?

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Okay, I guess did you see a lot of riots
in the Midstal territory?

Speaker 1 (55:44):
You always hear stories about the fans down there being
uh no.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
No, you just had to watch sometimes coming back, if
you had to walk underneath a balcony or something, you know,
grab a chair and hold it over your head. You
never know what's gonna come down on you.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
What was the worst thing that you've seen?

Speaker 3 (56:02):
Oh? Just you mean in situations like that, right, ah,
you know, just you know, somebody throw a cup of
pists on you or something, you know, you know, right,
you have to watch her.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
So memories of uh Michael Hayes and Terry Gordy from
this period of time, the free Birds.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
I love those guys, man. I got along with those
guys great. We were always we were always kicking it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Do you remember when uh the von Arts were coming
into the territory.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
Into uh what territory, Miss South. No, they never came
in when I was there.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
Okay, you already probably go on. Yeah in eighty five
you wound up in uh W w F. How did
that come about?

Speaker 3 (56:45):
Well, Roddy George Scott was the booker, and Roddy got
me booked. So I started in January of eighty five,
and uh, it was the schedule was it was hectic.
I can remember working. I worked a hundred and twenty
days without a day off. It was a wild it
was crazy crazy and uh yeah it was rough. A

(57:09):
lot of party and a lot of drugs. Yeah, a
lot of drugs.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
What was your rug a choice back then?

Speaker 3 (57:15):
Just cocher whatever thought on the table, you know, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Let's talk about the uh road schedule.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
What would be a typical day for you as far
as traveling for w W Yeah, from back in the day.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
Oh man, look at eighty five.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
Or in eighty five, get up get to the airport,
usually at early flight, get to your destination, check in,
get some sleep, maybe get to the gym, and then
if you had a drive, you had to get in

(57:51):
the car and get to the arena. Sometimes yeah, wherever
you're staying, you had to drive maybe a hundred and
fifty miles, you know, and then uh, you know, next day,
do the whole thing again, usually after the show, so
you know, it's when the party starts. You know, that's
when I was most alive, you know, I get done working,

(58:12):
get that sweat kick kicking, and I was awake and
I couldn't go back to my room and watch seeing
Anne go to sleep. That's party.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
We're just talking about the road schedule. And did it
ever get to you to where you were in a
crack early on in eighty five.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
Around the period or smoking crack?

Speaker 1 (58:34):
No, no, we're ever gonna crack. As far as like
being on.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
The road, No, no, I it was just real hectic.
You know, there's no time for yourself, you know, you
always it just wore on you, you know, right, one
hundred and twenty days straight on the road, got a
day off. It's rough.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
What are your memories of the very first WrestleMania that
you were part of.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
Remember it was like, actually, looking back, I never saw
it as as big as a thing as it was.
It was a pay per view and it was I
knew it was pay perview all over the world, but
it was like another show to me. I remember after

(59:21):
the show, went to the airport and Roddy and I
flying back to Portland that night and as a while,
so I go from Madison Square Garden to the airport,
fly to Portland. We got off the plane and a

(59:43):
girlfriend of mine picked us up, went back to my
place and then we go get some drugs, right, So
we go to this house, get some drugs and some coke,
and we go back to my place. So rod he's
going to take a cab home. It's all the way
across town, about thirty miles. I said, no, no, no, I'll

(01:00:04):
drive you. So okay, So we get in my car
and I drive him home. We sitting his driveway for
about an hour, and that was fog, sating in real
bad fog. And I leave his place to drive back
home and I run a red light. Because of this fog,
I didn't see the lights, so I get pulled over
and I found out that when I got pulled over

(01:00:26):
that I hadn't paid a parking ticket or some kind
of a fine. So there's a worn out for me.
So I went and sat for two hours in the
jail in Hillsboro, Oregon. So I went from being on
the first WrestleMania pay per view, flying back to Oregon
and going and spending two hours in the jail cell.

(01:00:49):
That's my memory of first WrestleMania.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
What are you members of the match itself?

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
I'd work with Ricky so many many times. Yeah, it
was just another match, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
It's members of uh Hogan at the time. What was
he like? I don't know, how did you get along
with him?

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
I mean no, Actually I think uh Buzz had problems
with Hogan back steroid related a buzz out of money
for steroids from before I even knew Buzz and uh.
Somehow Buzz and I are put in the same picture

(01:01:35):
a lot of times. You know, a lot of people
thought Buzz and I were brothers, I mean blood brothers.
But Hogan, uh, and I don't really know him that well.
You know, I know that you know he never wanted
to work with me as doing sad, but.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
It is what it is do you consider him one
of the boys or do you consider Hogan by himself?

Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
And you know what, He's got his circle of friends,
you know, and I'm sure that they consider him the
epitome of you know, the boys. But no, I personally,
I don't you know, I'm I'm not gonna say anything
nasty about the guy, but I don't even know him. Right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
You were close with Roddy around Wresselmania. Obviously. Was he
mad at all about having to work without mister T? No,
it was just business.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
Yeah, I I remember that, Uh, when I did interviews
with him and order if they talked about maybe having
the shoot on mister T if he wasn't.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
Oh, yeah, I can remember. You know him, Roddy always
like took things and you know, okay, this scenario, this scenario,
different scenarios that could occur. You know what he would do. Yeah,
he in fact, he shared some of that with me.
But uh no, he he was never real didn't seem
real too concerned.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
Okay, what are your memories of Vincent man jor.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Hey? He uh he gave me a heck of a break,
you know, from this time period before he went in
and worked as drink, oh from wrestling company. He just uh,
he was all business.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
You know, did you see any stress events because uh
of WrestleMania being.

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
Uh, you know, I didn't know what the whole scenario,
you know, what he what was on the line for
him at the time.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Some say if it didn't happen and it would have
been it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
Yeah, yeah, that's what I had heard too. But yeah,
I saw cause he he'd come in the dressing room WrestleMania,
I and uh to talk over finishes, and uh, he
came in and we were standing in the shower, I believe,
and uh, he he just looked at me and think
he wanted to see that I had clear eyes, you know,

(01:04:04):
and to wanted to make sure I was gonna be
ready to go and go out there and perform to
the best of my ability. And I said, I looked
him right now, I go, yeah, yeah, I'm good to go. Yeah.
He was just like, but I can looking back, I
could see he was a bit nervous. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
Hm, how big? Was it a step in the r
right direction?

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
I guess for w f Uh As far as them
being popular doing wrestlming, do you think they needed to
go national and.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
Do everything they did with the rock and wrestling connection
around this time period.

Speaker 3 (01:04:32):
Oh yeah, uh, obviously obviously he was uh he he
had some balls, you know. He stepped on a lot
of toes, you know, building that taking talent from other
territories and made a lot of uh, made a lot
of people upset.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
Did you think that it was gonna blow up the
way it did?

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
You know what? I Yeah, yeah, I maybe not quite
to where it is today. You know, I didn't really
think that too far in advanced about it, you know,
but right, but I knew it was a great thing. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
Could you see the running on the wall when it
came to the territories disappearing as Vince was taking different
key guys or yeah he knew.

Speaker 3 (01:05:19):
Its yeah right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
Memories of some of your uh road trips in Davi
DEVI f early on the first time.

Speaker 3 (01:05:30):
Yeah there, Oh, Don Morocco and I were making a
trip from Newark to uh Binghamton, New York. No, we
were going on the other side of Binghamton and uh
snow and ikech you know, I think it was a
February and UH hit this snowstorm and I'm driving his

(01:05:52):
car h and uh we hit a patch of ice
and started doing three sixties down the freeway and total
the car missed the show, but we're both okay. Yeah
remember that night.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Hm. Who were some of the guys you'd really like
to travel with? What what sides Morocco?

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
Around this time, Bratt Bratt was their travel with Brad
Barry Orton. I used to travel with Barry Orton right
and Roddy and he is. I re travel with George

(01:06:35):
Wells too a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
Memories of uh, Bobby the brain heenan.

Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
Just always uh, always a comedian. It's always a comedian,
always working right.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
Memories of the iron cheek.

Speaker 3 (01:06:52):
Freaking goofball also well goofball.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
Even back then.

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
Oh guy, I always always cause.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
I know him now pretty well, and uh, he's definitely
out there.

Speaker 3 (01:07:06):
He is out there.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Thoughts on him today.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
I don't know if you follow anything that he's done
over the last couple of years, but he's pretty popular
among Howard Stern fans.

Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
And yeah Internet, Yeah, I I see the I saw
a little piece on YouTube. I saw him smoking crack
on YouTube. Yeah you see that. I even know was
smoking crack on uh right on the set. Huh, oh
my god.

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
Talk about George Scott. What was he like as a
booker when when you came into the company.

Speaker 3 (01:07:40):
George was a booker when I went when I went
to Charlotte too, okay, and then he was a booker
for Vance for the time. I think he uh he
had a good mind, and you know he uh he
had an open ear. Yeah. I think, uh a good
booker will uh well have an open ear and kind

(01:08:03):
of listen, have a listen to everybody and then pick
the right things and put the right things together as
he sees it. But uh, I don't think a good
book I can do it all by himself. He's he's
got to have a good ear.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
Is that something that you would have liked to do
as far as uh booking behind the scenes or did
you just wanna be talented?

Speaker 3 (01:08:22):
You know? Well, I actually uh just wanted to be
talented my younger day. But uh then uh I did
some booking for uh out in Oregon in uh ninety six,
ninety seven, ninety eight, okay, and uh yeah, I enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
We'll talk about that. That's when you went back for.

Speaker 3 (01:08:39):
Donald's, I believe right, no Sandy Bar and then uh
uh Ivan Kafoori on the radio station, got a promoter's license,
and I booked for him, ran his stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
Why did you end up leaving uh WWF early on?

Speaker 3 (01:08:58):
I think I was uh missing some business troop shows
and uh just partying too much? Right? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
Did they fire you or did you?

Speaker 3 (01:09:07):
No? They never fired me. They just cut way back
on my bookings. They sent me overseas a lot. I
went to Egypt, went to j w My first trip
to Japan was UH through WWF and UH then I
booked myself. After my first trip to Japan with WWF,
I started booking myself over there.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
Would that be for New Japan? And A Yeah, what
are your memories of uh working.

Speaker 3 (01:09:29):
For an OK? Oh? I loved it. I loved working
over there.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
How different was that as far as uh the style
of getting there?

Speaker 3 (01:09:35):
Oh? Yeah a lot? Yeah, more go go, go go,
you know. Yeah, I I liked it, though.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
How are the Japanese guys to work with?

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
Real stuff? You know? But I I did. I didn't
have any problems, you know. I mean it was like
they might miss they might if you weren't, Like if
you didn't go with them, they would eat yep, you know,
so you had to go with him. You know who
which I per which I respected that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
Who were some of the top guys you worked with
over there?

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
Fujinami or uh Fujinami, she's uh Tenru was they were
building Tenru Uh Innocchi of course, uh Seca, Gucci. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
How long are your tours for?

Speaker 3 (01:10:23):
Anywhere from three to five weeks?

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
Well did you like the culture and and the food
or somebodys go over there and Nason I loved it, right,
I loved it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
Yeah, memories of our bruiser Brody A.

Speaker 3 (01:10:34):
Frank and I were really good friends. Uh. In fact, uh,
months before he died, I picked him up at the
airport and uh, he's he's riding with him and he
he tells me, he said, Matt, they wanna cut me. Said,
what are you talking about? Says they wanna cut me

(01:10:55):
cause he was like eating the guys up, you know,
and uh, they were afraid to work with him or something,
and uh he it was like he knew he had
a vision of his own death. Hum. A month before though,
he told me they they wanted to cut him. I
just laughed at him, you know, oh you crazy?

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
Didn't he have problems with Invader when he worked in
Uh WWF as a job guy, and Brody was there
early on in the UH eighties when he would come
into the territory. I heard different stories that when who
came in the territory when Invader one worked for Vince
and Brody was there, that there was problems in the
locker room.

Speaker 3 (01:11:31):
Then I I, I didn't even know Vader. Uh Brody
worked for Vince.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
This is like way back in the day.

Speaker 3 (01:11:38):
I didn't even know that. Yeah, So.

Speaker 1 (01:11:42):
What do you remember, uh?

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
I guess about Brody in Japan as far as uh
being in the ring and how the fans looked at
him as a god.

Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
He was the man. He was the man. He was
uh great guy though, man, he was like probably I
would have to say, he's probably one of the best
ever in the Yes, yeah he I if not the
if not the he was what a piece talent.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
Now what do you think you'd been doing today if
he was still alive? You think he'd work for Vince?

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
Or do you think he was such a a guy
who would stay in.

Speaker 3 (01:12:13):
Japan or I don't know. You know, he always talked
about retiring and driving a school bus. Huh, but you know,
I mean, I couldn't think of anybody to help the
business more after his day as a talent, you know,
of helping young guys, young big guys, learn how to

(01:12:35):
work like big men.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
Right. Yeah, memories of Andre in Japan?

Speaker 3 (01:12:43):
I was only over there with Andrea once or twice. Andre.
I really don't have any memories of Andrea in Japan.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
How did you wind up working for uh Fritz Fine
in Arkan, Texas?

Speaker 3 (01:12:59):
I got down there when my bookings uh slid for
the WWF. I called down there and got booked right
away down there.

Speaker 1 (01:13:12):
Early memories about Fritz? What did you think of him
as a promoter?

Speaker 3 (01:13:16):
Fritz was kind of an intimidating guy, you know, I
mean I never Fritz was around I. I didn't say
too much, you know, I just kind of listened. But
I yeah, good, I got I got him good with
all the boys, though.

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
You know, who did you see having the most potential
out of all of un arcs? W would it be David?

Speaker 3 (01:13:38):
Now? I didn't know David. I didn't know David at all.
I never been in the territory with him, and I
and he had died when uh before I had even
met him, you know, But I I had always heard
that David was the biggest piece of talent, you know,
had the most talent. But I can't see I can't
see him having more talent than Carrie.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
Right, Yeah, What are some of your memories of UH
carry and Kevin and Mike.

Speaker 3 (01:14:04):
Well, Kevin was you know, Kevin was just always off
the wall, you know. I mean, I I'd walk in
the dressing room and hey, Kevin, how you doing? Five
minutes later, he'd walk by me and forget that he
just saw me two minutes ago, you know what I mean.
And always glassy eyed, and you know, he was all

(01:14:25):
He was a nice guy, but working with him was
really tough. You know. Oh yeah, he'd hurt you, you know,
and he'd hurt you. He hurt me a lot, you know,
not nothing major, but you know, toes in the ribs,
you know, you know, just stupid stuff because he's all
messed up out there.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
How bad were their drug issues?

Speaker 3 (01:14:48):
You know what they kind of kept it k fabe,
but you know, I'd done drugs with them all, but
they always k fabed, you know, they were always so
man stop. You know, I didn't know what they were on.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
Any specific UH memories of UH things that went wrong
or outside the ring partying with the vun arcs any
good stories, cause everybody has vun arc stories.

Speaker 3 (01:15:13):
So he you know what I I never partied with
him outside, you know, I would uh, I would you know,
snort some coke with him in the dressing room or
something after the show, you know, but now I never
really parted with him.

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
Any good carry about arc stories.

Speaker 3 (01:15:32):
Oh. Actually, Carrie, I, my second wife, had had a
son that was uh throwing the discus in high school
and when we were in Texas, and Carrie used to
come down and and help him, you know with his
uh with his discus and carry was a real you know,
a really big hearted guy, right, you know, especially if

(01:15:53):
you could catch him before he started getting high.

Speaker 1 (01:15:56):
What about uh Mike von Arc Uh did you know how?

Speaker 3 (01:16:00):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, he had just come off his toxic
s shocks thing, you know, and Fritz was wanting to
give him a big push and uh yeah, it was rough.
It was rough trying to put over put him over
in the ring.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
And do you think his father was to uh push
you on the guys, cause oh yeah, Mike didn't even
really wanna be in the business.

Speaker 3 (01:16:20):
Right, I understand, right, yeah, and he shouldn't have been right. Yeah,
but yeah, his dad was like wanted him all to
be superstars. Hm. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:28):
Memories of uh Adula Butcher from.

Speaker 3 (01:16:30):
This time period, Abby and I I had some great matches.
I had great matches with Abby. Uh. I'd loved working
with him, you know. In fact, if I knew I
was working with Abbey, I it made my day, you know,
cause it was so easy, so easy working with him
because whenever, whenever there was blood involved, the match was easy.

(01:16:53):
You know, something about when you get the blood flowing
match just unfolds just beautifully, you know, I just react,
just react. I'd love to believe.

Speaker 2 (01:17:03):
Memories of his manager, uh Gary Hart? Was Gary booking
at this time period?

Speaker 3 (01:17:07):
Or Gary? Uh No? Yeah? Actually Gary was booking while
I was down there with for Fritz. I always liked Gary.
I always got along good with Gary. Gary made a
lot of enemies, and I could never understand that because
Gary was Gary was Gary right, and he loved me

(01:17:29):
and I I loved him. He was a good man,
you know. I mean he took care of me when
he was booking. You know, I was one of his boys.

Speaker 1 (01:17:38):
Who are some of your favorite opponents when you worked
uh down for Texas.

Speaker 3 (01:17:42):
Used to love to work with uh owl Perez, Uh
Perez and I had some really good matches.

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
I just talked him work for a Kain Is that right?
Is that on Tampa still?

Speaker 3 (01:17:52):
Yeah, So I haven't talked to him in years, but yeah,
I used to love to work with him. We had
some good hour broadways man.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
Yeah, what are your early memories of uh Jim Helwig
the Ultimate Warrior who then was the Dingo Warrior.

Speaker 3 (01:18:06):
Hey, he was a big, strong, powerful guy and uh
he was real green he uh you know, he never
really did learn how to work, but you know, and
I can remember him being real stiff sometimes, you know,
and probably not even realizing it, but I remember him
clotheslineing me a couple of times when oh my god,

(01:18:28):
about took my head off. But he uh, he was
he he he was kind of a quiet guy in
dressing room and uh he uh you know. And I'd
been over to his apartment a couple of times cause
he lived about a block from me when he was
down there, and uh, I got along good with him,
fine with him, but there was we had some issues,

(01:18:50):
you know, he.

Speaker 1 (01:18:50):
B he'd buried in an interview that he did I
don't know why. That's all right, Okay, that's all right.

Speaker 3 (01:18:55):
Did you guys have Yeah, Well, I just called him out.
I worked with him one night and I went over
to his dressing him. I said, what the heck you doing?
You know, I mean, you freaking hurt me out there,
you know, and we just had some words. That's the
only time we ever had any words. But you know,
for you know, sure, you know there you can get
guys to you know, uh, pick me apart and s

(01:19:18):
some of the things that I've done in my life.
And I'll be the first to admit it. I'm I'm
a I'm a I'm a I'm a master at freaking mistakes,
you know, and I've made many, many of 'em. But
for uh Jim Helwig to go out and not people,
for somebody that's never learned how to work in their
l day of their life, you know, I mean, sure,

(01:19:39):
he c he's got a phenomenal body, one of the
best bodies ever in the business, you know. And he
painted his face really nice. That was sweet. But you know,
never learned how to work a lick. Never learned how
to work a lick, right, you know, so he can
say whatever he wants about me, but you know he
paints his face.

Speaker 2 (01:19:56):
Good memories about Christs and thoughts on healthy turned out
with uh, Chris, did you know Chris?

Speaker 3 (01:20:02):
Yeah, knew Chris ro Well. Chris. Uh, Chris and I
were pretty good friends. Uh. Then he uh he opened
a wrestling school down in Texas and uh, actually he
broke Steve Boston in and uh a few guys. And
then he started promoting down there, running some shows and

(01:20:25):
it just got kind of greedy, you know, and Chris Chris, Uh,
Chris was an alcoholic. You know, Chris was a great
guy and then he he he'd start drinking and he
would You wouldn't wanna be around him, you know, he'd
get mean. But I always got along pretty good with him.
You know, he had some issues, you know when he

(01:20:45):
got drunk and had some problems and some of some
legal problems, but it was the alcohol, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
So you've seen the early signs when he would get
drunk and have.

Speaker 3 (01:20:55):
Rages and oh yeah, he that's what it would happen.
He would cause he was easy going guy, sober, and
he'd he'd start drinking and he would rage.

Speaker 2 (01:21:05):
Hm, suit were you shocked at all when you heard about, uh,
the ancient that happened with him.

Speaker 3 (01:21:10):
He yeah, no, you know, course when any anybody gets killed,
you know, it's a shock. But when you think about
him and think about the way he was and I
knew Chris how he was with the alcohol and uh no,
I wasn't really wasn't that uh shocked that it happened.

Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
You're also managed by uh Percy Pringle. What are your
memories of uh Percy?

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
Uh, He's a trip. He was a funny guy. He
would make me laugh. Uh, I W I got good
memories of Percy. In fact, I keep him pretty close
contact with him. I talked to him quite often.

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
Actually alpras you just mentioned. Uh, he had some great
mantions with al. Why do you think he never went
any further than he did?

Speaker 3 (01:21:57):
I don't think he wanted to. I don't think he
wanted to. He uh, he didn't wanna roll with the times,
you know. He he wanted to be out Perez, you know,
and he was. He's a mechanically a great worker, great worker.
In fact, I've had some mechanically some of the best
matches I've ever had without Hm. And uh, but I

(01:22:21):
don't know, he just uh he would get discouraged and
just said to you know, heck with it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:29):
W was it hard?

Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
I guess earning a living around this time period because
the territories were now you know, getting gubbled up by
Vince and the pay scale wasn't there. Did you ever
say maybe I need to find something else to do?
Or was wrestling pretty much it?

Speaker 3 (01:22:40):
H Wrestling was pretty much it? You know. I mean
I was just always able to make a decent living,
you know. Uh, yeah, you know what when when when
Vince pretty much monopolized the business? I mean yeah, and
I and if you weren't making it on the independence,
you know like I was, you know, uh in the

(01:23:02):
mid nineties late nineties, Yeah, you had to uh you
had to look other you know, what are the other
options that you know, you have to do something? Right? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
Did you work in Tennessee at all? Like a brief
period is then?

Speaker 3 (01:23:14):
I worked in Tennessee out of when UH Jarrett's bought
out and was changed UH World Class to USWA. Okay.
He would send UH crew up to work Nashville work territory.

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
Wh what do you remember he was working for UH Jerry.

Speaker 3 (01:23:30):
Oh. I hated to go up there bad spice that. Yeah,
I got. I can remember just being depressed when I
had to go there.

Speaker 1 (01:23:37):
You know, travel was difficult to.

Speaker 3 (01:23:39):
Right, Yeah, yeah, I'd live in a hotel room and
you know in Nashville, I I I I, I just
remember it as a real depressing time of my life having
to leave Texas.

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
Now, Gary Hart he also had a little territory too,
right in Texas.

Speaker 3 (01:23:54):
Yeah, he he was running this show. Yeah. I worked
for him a few times.

Speaker 1 (01:23:58):
I think Dustin work down there, maybe.

Speaker 3 (01:24:00):
Once when he was green and Dustin ruads. Yeah, yeah,
Dustin would worked down there. I worked with Dustin.

Speaker 1 (01:24:06):
What are you memories of uh Dustin early on in
his career.

Speaker 3 (01:24:08):
Oh yeah, I I got all good. In fact, Dusty
Dusty uh hired me when uh he took the over
the book and uh in Georgia and uh he actually
thanked me for Uh. I kind of took a dust
Dustin under my wing a little bit. Right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:27):
Were you there the night that uh Shamrocks or uh
it was ken Shamrock and a Nasty Boys incident happened? Yeah,
what do you remembories? It was in the mid Atlantic,
right territory? Yeah, what are you memories of that night
we did shoots with both of those guys, Brian and
and SAgs, and uh.

Speaker 3 (01:24:40):
Yeah, I was the first guy to see Shamrock in
the hospital, uh the next day. But it was over
a girl, right, yeah, yeah, I uh Johnny Weaver's daughter
and I I was seeing Johnny Weaver's daughter and we
were friends and uh sh her room mate was messing

(01:25:02):
around with Shamra And the night it happened, we uh,
we're going We're wrestling someplace down in South Carolina. We're
going down there, and Shamrocks in the back seat. I'm driving,
and he's got this girl in the back seat, and
then I've got a Wendy friend of mine was in

(01:25:24):
the front seat and we're talking and he's talking about himself. Now,
you know, kid, you God bless him. You know, he's
a great athlete and a great fighter and the worlds
was dangerous guy. But he was talking about being winning
the National tough Man Contest, and it kind of like
I was kind of like taking aback, you know, because

(01:25:47):
it was like he was trying to talk him talk
himself up for this girl. You know, use they did,
they just hooked up, and uh, so I he was
talking about winning the Toughest tough Man contests and National
tough Man contest. So I can remember looking in the
rear view mirror looking at him. I'm gonna say, so,
I guess that means you're the toughest guy in the country. Huh.
And he says, Yep, that's what they say. And he

(01:26:08):
was serious as a heart attack or not. I just
kind of, you know, kN was just I could never
really see eye to eye with him. So we went
and worked that night, and the Nasty Boys were there
and stuff. Then afterwards we went to this bar called
Plumb Crazy and a huge bar and Charlotte and so

(01:26:30):
I'm sitting at the bar with Wendy and all of
a sudden, there's a big commotion at the front door.
And what happened was Knobs. Knobs was grabbing Chaise, this
girl that was with Shamrock, grabbing her breasts right and Shamrock.

(01:26:53):
She started crying to Ken kN to tell him to
quit grabb my tits, and so Shamrock gets in Knobs's
face and Knobs just pie faced them against any here.
So there's this big confrontation. The bouncers kick him out
and we're all there together, right, So they come over.
One of them comes over, man, man, come over, and
I try to go over and try to you know,

(01:27:14):
smooth the thing over, and uh so we all end
up leaving. So Shay goes with Shamrock and in another car,
and so I'm with Wendy and Knobs and SAgs go
back and we're all staying at the Ramada Inn, and
uh Shay and Shamrock uh are going off someplace and

(01:27:40):
then they Shamrock wants to go over and fight Knobs
and SAgs, so he goes over and he they were
staying on the third floor of the Ramada Inn, and
he's banging on the door and those everybody's been drinking
and uh Knobs is on the phone with his girl
friend laying on his back on the bed. SAgs opens

(01:28:05):
the door and Shamrock just busts bust in and jumps
on Brian and starts pounding him, and then uh, Brian
drops the phone, so uh SAgs Nail hit Shamrock and
in the head with the phone and knocked him out
right and started putting the boots to 'em, you know,
I mean Messes. I mean he almost died, I remember,

(01:28:29):
and he was gonna throw him over the balcony, That's
what I mean. Uh, Jerry Saggs told me that himself.
He goes Matt Cau and j he had had some
legal problems in Florida or something, you know, or fighting
and stuff. So he was scared, you know. So actually
they rushed him to the hospital. I don't know if
they life fighting him or what. But uh so I

(01:28:51):
went to the hospital and uh I went in. I
don't know why they even let me in, you know,
I just said I'd know him by bah. Uh So
I went in. I see him sitting there in his
heads like this. I didn't e couldn't even recognize him,
and uh he had to reconstruct his bunch of bones
in his face were all messed up. But about two

(01:29:12):
weeks later, shamrocks right back to his attitude, you know,
you know, I mean, he's starting to heal up. And
I don't know he brought it upon himself. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:29:25):
We just did a convention maybe like three months ago,
and the Nasty Boys and Can were there, but they
didn't realize they were there. The Nasty Boys knew Ken
was there, but Ken didn't know they were there. So
the whole time, we were like, let's see what's gonna
happen here? So I wonder what would happen if Ken
knew they were there.

Speaker 3 (01:29:37):
Ken never knew they were there.

Speaker 1 (01:29:38):
He didn't know he was with. Uh who was he
with the whole time? Joe, No, it wasn't seven, It
was uh the other guy.

Speaker 2 (01:29:48):
I forgot, but yeah, Steve Blackman, That's what he was.

Speaker 1 (01:29:51):
Yeah, so it would have been interesting to see what
would have happened.

Speaker 3 (01:29:54):
Hey, you know Jerry SAG's tough guy.

Speaker 1 (01:29:57):
Yep, how did you wind up in u w C.
That's when Dusty was Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:30:05):
Well, I knew Dusty was taking over the book so
I called him and made an appointment. And uh, I
was staying in Charlotte at the time, So I went
down and met with Dusty and actually I'm the first
guy that Dusty hired as a booker. And uh he
asked me if I'd have a problem, uh, taking on
another character other than Matt Bourne, you know, me and

(01:30:26):
I Matt Bourne, And I said, hey, whatever, you know.
So he got back with me about six hours later
and had the big Josh idea, and uh, I rode
with that.

Speaker 1 (01:30:39):
Did you like that gimmick?

Speaker 3 (01:30:40):
Yeah? I was. I didn't mind it. I didn't mind it.
You know, it was all kind of new to me
to to be doing, you know, something different.

Speaker 2 (01:30:50):
Was it restrictive to go from wrestling for years to
portraying someone who didn't really know how to work?

Speaker 3 (01:30:55):
Yeah, it was for me at the time. Yeah, mm
yeah it was.

Speaker 1 (01:30:59):
Was it awesome a bit easier at times?

Speaker 3 (01:31:01):
Or yeah, yeah I can say that too. It was.
Uh yeah, it was just different for me, you know,
to to have to I didn't. I didn't really didn't
have a lot of time to really. Uh, it's not
something that came natural for me, right, it was. It

(01:31:22):
was kind of tough.

Speaker 1 (01:31:23):
M memories of us Sting.

Speaker 3 (01:31:27):
Sting was always kind of a quiet guy, you know
in the dressing room and uh, you know, I'd see
him in the gym and uh always always got along
good with him. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:31:41):
What about uh Lex Luger Lex.

Speaker 3 (01:31:43):
I always liked Lex Lex. Uh. Lex could portray uh
homosexual very well. Yeah, he would portray homosexual and uh
he'd make everybody laugh.

Speaker 1 (01:31:54):
I actually seen a video of him doing that.

Speaker 2 (01:31:56):
Uh yeah, so I think Steve Williams had his video
camera in the locker room or was it Jimmy Garvin.

Speaker 3 (01:32:01):
And doing that maybe too good at that?

Speaker 1 (01:32:05):
What about uh Rick Flair he was in the locker
room a time period two again you were working for.

Speaker 3 (01:32:11):
Yeah, yeah, Rick. I I saw Rick in a different
light at this time, more political, Yeah, more uh more
what whatever? Good? What's ever good for Rick? Yeah? Right?

Speaker 1 (01:32:28):
A lot of people say that about Ricto.

Speaker 3 (01:32:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:32:30):
So barn Anderson, how different was uh R now that
he was h pretty much you know, successful in the business.

Speaker 3 (01:32:37):
Did uh not? As far as I could see? You know,
arm was always a pretty uh polite guy now and
uh always cordial. Tommy Rich Tommy Rich was uh always
freaking partying, always so while man, Yeah, did you get
along with him? Always? Yeah? Sid vis it's a vicious

(01:33:01):
I Uh, I didn't really know him that well, but
he I I just I just, uh he wasn't the
kind of guy that I wanted to really, you know,
become too too friendly with, you know. I he always
seemed to be off the wall a little bit and
could flip at any moment. Right.

Speaker 1 (01:33:22):
What about uh Brian Pillman memories of uh.

Speaker 3 (01:33:24):
Flying Brian Brian. I always liked Brian Brian. Uh I
partied a lot with Brian, Brian and uh uh I
was freaking his name. I can't remember his name.

Speaker 1 (01:33:38):
Uh tom Zinc.

Speaker 3 (01:33:39):
Tom's Inc. Yeah, Tom's Inc. And Brian and I did
a lot of partying together. I wonder would have ever
happened at Tom's Inc.

Speaker 1 (01:33:47):
It's pretty much out of the business. Yeah, well, I
feel I knew that, but I have no idea.

Speaker 2 (01:33:51):
A lot of people tried getting it for conventions and stuff,
and he he wants nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:33:54):
To do with the business.

Speaker 3 (01:33:55):
Really.

Speaker 2 (01:33:55):
Yeah, his g his mom answered the phone actually if
you call for him, So I don't know if he's
living at this mom's house or or whatnot. Yeah, huh,
what about Uh, let's say the Steiners Scott and Rick Steiner.

Speaker 1 (01:34:06):
Scott Marc remembers of all those guys.

Speaker 3 (01:34:09):
I used to travel with him a lot the WWF
Uh I like. I like both those guys, I especially Rick.
Rick was Uh. I looked up the Rick a lot man.
He was a phenomenal athlete, you know. Yeah. I used
to go to the gym with him, travel with him.

Speaker 2 (01:34:26):
Alright, you actually dated uh Johnny Weaver's daughter, Penny Banner,
I think, Yeah, what are your thoughts on Johnny?

Speaker 3 (01:34:34):
Johnny died not long ago, right, I believe, I don't know. Yeah,
I always liked Johnny. Johnny uh used to travel with
him when I broke into business in a in in
eighty and Charlotte. Uh, yeah, Johnny was a good man.

Speaker 1 (01:34:51):
W What happened the night of your uh major car accident?
Which one in WW? I think did you have one
in when you were in c A bt oll or No?

Speaker 3 (01:35:02):
No? I Uh, I was in a car accident in
UH ninety seven where yeah, my heart, they had had
give me the fibrillator, I'd bring me back. I. Uh.
I was in Oregon and uh I was with a
friend of mine and we're going from bar to bar
and partying and he was driving and we we had

(01:35:24):
a flatbed tow truck that was parked on the road.
Why and uh the flatbed came through and laid me open. Yeah,
it was p it was probabs. I was in ICU
for three days and actually, uh, yeah, it's a little
bit more to it. I never lost consciousness until uh

(01:35:50):
I went to the hospital. They wanted me to take
these X rays and I had this tower on my
head that was just soaked with blood, and uh, they
wanted me to go in and take these X rays.
Uh by, So I go in and and this XU
Y technician has sent me up to take X rays
on my back. And I was in shock, you know.
So I jump up and I just went out and

(01:36:11):
I said, just stitch me up, just stitch me up, right.
I wanted to get out of there. And uh so
I was maybe bouncing around a little bit, you know,
and uh, I j I really don't looking back, and
I really don't think I was putting anybody at risk.
You know, I might be causing a little bit of
a scene. There's blood all over the place. But the
security came over there and they, uh they maceed me

(01:36:34):
and uh took me down and maced me and blood
all over the place. They cuffed me and they they
maceed me in the and the mace actually made my
throat close up. My heart stopped. That's what That's what
did that. And I woke up two days later.

Speaker 1 (01:36:54):
When Bill Watts came into WCW.

Speaker 2 (01:36:55):
How did your relationship pick up from cause you guys
pretty much falling out when you work for him?

Speaker 3 (01:37:01):
Yeah, I was done, they w that's when I Yeah,
he wasn't renewing my contract.

Speaker 1 (01:37:06):
He said, do you think he had it out for you?

Speaker 3 (01:37:08):
Then?

Speaker 2 (01:37:08):
Yeah, okay, yeah, so you pretty much saw already on
the wall when he came in.

Speaker 1 (01:37:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:37:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:37:15):
Let's talk about, uh how you winded up getting back
working for a WW How did that come about?

Speaker 3 (01:37:23):
I uh found out that we weren't renewing my contract.
I was living in Atlanta and I had been calling
up there several times to no avail. And then one
night I had just my daughter was just born, my
uh reign and my daughter and uh I called Jerry

(01:37:46):
Jarrett at home and uh just to tell him, you know, hey,
I just got a new baby girl and da da da.
So I didn't even realize that he was working for events.
And then he says, say, well, what are you doing.
I said, well, I don't know. You know, I had
some uh things I was gonna do. But he says, well,
you th think about coming up to working for Vince

(01:38:07):
And I said, well, I've tried to call. I said
I don't get you know, I don't get any positive
response back. So he said, let me call you back.
So a couple days later he called me back. I
flew up there and worked a couple of dark matches
and uh that's when uh the doink thing was thrown
at me.

Speaker 2 (01:38:24):
I guess what did you think when you heard about
the doink gimmick? And how did it come about? How
the entire character come about?

Speaker 3 (01:38:31):
Well, uh I was. I went up there for two days.
We did two days of TV tapings, just as Matt
Borne and uh Vince. It gave me a contract. It
gave me a two year contract before I even knew
anything about anything doink thing, you know. So they come
and get me, and uh Vince wanted to talk to me.

(01:38:52):
So we go in the back at this arena and
uh he starts talking to me about growing up in
the business. We're talking about Lonnie and what it was
like growing up in that atmosphere and stuff, and talking
about how Lonnie was always cause Vince knew Lonnie VI.
Uh Lonnie worked for his dad years ago. And and

(01:39:14):
then he just uh came off with, uh, you know what,
I've been thinking about this thing. And actually Hawk had
an id the idea years before.

Speaker 1 (01:39:25):
Hm.

Speaker 3 (01:39:26):
But Vince, he said, that's a fine line, you know.
He goes he a little worker, won't He says, but
I think you could probably do it if you think
you can. So when he's telling me that, I I
was at a loss for words, you know, I I
didn't know how to take it. And and he told me.

(01:39:47):
He says, y, you know it's not written in stone.
He says, if you got any other ideas, you just
throw 'em on the table. Let me talk. He said,
But I think he could do it if you do.
And so he says, think about it. I was going
home the next day. She just go home, call me
to call me by Friday. And so I went home,

(01:40:08):
slept on it, and I knew that hey, if if
it worked, more than likely to get a push. So
I went home and slept on it and called him
and then we rolled.

Speaker 1 (01:40:24):
Did you see the potential in it?

Speaker 3 (01:40:26):
I did? I did. I never doubted it a bit,
but everybody else did, I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:40:33):
So you weren't hesitant at all in the gimmick, not
at all. Where are your persons of Vinceer on this
time period? As now the company was over?

Speaker 3 (01:40:40):
I thought he was great. I had a good relationship
with Yeah. I could call him at any time, get
right through to him, and he was very, very open
to communication with me.

Speaker 2 (01:40:54):
How different was it now? You know from going to
being a noon wrestlers now working under a disguise?

Speaker 1 (01:40:59):
Was it better for you or oh?

Speaker 3 (01:41:00):
I loved it? I loved it.

Speaker 1 (01:41:02):
Yeah, easy to go out, Yeah, pretty much people.

Speaker 3 (01:41:05):
Know who you were anyways, So well, no, I I'd
like that part of it, you know, I could, I could, Uh,
I could put my s I could put my gimmick
on and you know everybody knew, right, and I could
take it off and put a hat on a lend.

Speaker 1 (01:41:21):
How did you uh develop the character?

Speaker 2 (01:41:23):
I mean I as far as body language goes, and
uh you miss early on in.

Speaker 1 (01:41:28):
The in the doin character? And did you do things
differently last time went on?

Speaker 3 (01:41:32):
I watched a lot of Batman, right, I watched a
lot of Caesar Romero as a joker. It's pretty much it,
you know. And UH remembered a lot of Lonnie right
and UH just rolled, just rolled, stood in front of
the mirror.

Speaker 1 (01:41:52):
A lot a lot of practicing, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:41:55):
With my paint, with my face paint on, naked.

Speaker 2 (01:42:01):
Memories of UH WrestleMania nine.

Speaker 3 (01:42:07):
I had a lot of uh, a lot of luck
at the UH at the UH blackjack table.

Speaker 1 (01:42:15):
That was in UH? Where was it at Caesars? Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:42:19):
Yeah, I see, Yeah, I had. I had a lot
of luck at the black It was a pretty good
winner that night. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:42:25):
Then you did the Big Angle with uh Steve KERRNU
think that was one of your first programs as dwink.

Speaker 3 (01:42:29):
Or No, No, it was just crush.

Speaker 1 (01:42:32):
Okay, that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:42:33):
Steve Kerrn was involved.

Speaker 1 (01:42:34):
What are you memories of? Uh that whole angle?

Speaker 3 (01:42:38):
Ah, I didn't you know, I I had problems because
Steve Kern kind of went behind my back to try
to cause Steve Kerr and I kind of look alike.
We back then, we maybe more so you know, I
haven't seen but we looked alike. And uh, people thought
that he was me sometimes or I was him, and

(01:43:02):
uh so you know he he kind of without even
asking me how I felt about it. You know, he
was trying to push cause he was doing that other gimmick.
What was this gimmick? H skinner? You know, he wanted
to be a doink and uh, you know I was

(01:43:22):
getting the thing over and uh I kind of I
kind of was taking aback about that a little bit.
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:43:30):
Right as far as your friends, how did they react
when you first told him about the gimmick?

Speaker 3 (01:43:37):
Uh? They thought, I mean the friends in the business, Yes, uh,
they thought it was a joke. Piper. Piper thought it was.
He goes, what the heck is Vince doing with you
up there? Jesse? Even Jesse, remember Jesse called me and
he said, man, what the hell is Vin's doing with
you up there? As bullsh you know, And I was
kind of, uh, my heart hurt, hurt, you know when

(01:43:57):
those two guys, you know, I put it down, but
I still didn't still didn't Batterny. I knew, you know,
it was gonna get over. I knew, I knew there
wasn't a doubt in my mind.

Speaker 2 (01:44:08):
Memories about Shawn, Michaels and Brett Hart from around this
period of time.

Speaker 3 (01:44:13):
I loved working with Brett h I and Sean. You know,
I traveled with Sean quite a bit actually back then.

Speaker 2 (01:44:23):
You know, well, Sewn like cause a lot, and you
hear a lot of different things about Sean from back then.

Speaker 3 (01:44:30):
Sewn Shawn, Sean. You know, I mean, I I Sean's
a phenomenal piece of talent. You know, he's scart on
my nerves. Though he got on my nerves as far
as why you know, I'm sure I get on people's
nerves too. You know, Sean would get on.

Speaker 4 (01:44:47):
My nerves just uh like, if I'm riding down the
road with him, he's gotta put the flyzer down and
comb his hair every five minutes, right, you know, you know,
and he can't he can't go buy a mirror or.

Speaker 3 (01:45:05):
Maybe he's changed. He couldn't go buy a mirror without
talking to you and looking at himself in the mirror.
And you know, I mean enough, you know, I know
you're John Michaels.

Speaker 2 (01:45:16):
Memories of events around this period of time because he
had a lot of legal issues and stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:45:19):
Going on, a lot of stress.

Speaker 2 (01:45:21):
Yeah, okay, yeah, did it ever affect the company at all?

Speaker 3 (01:45:27):
Yeah? Yeah, there a lot of a lot of people
thought the company was going to go under. Yeah, there's
some meetings about it too, you know. Yeah, he was
looking at in a worst case scenario, he was gonna
have to go do some time.

Speaker 2 (01:45:45):
You know, so did a lot of the guys think
that was gonna happen, that was gonna be the case?

Speaker 3 (01:45:49):
Never really talked about it much, but uh, I think,
you know, it's in the air. I think even Vince
might have been preparing himself for possible you know.

Speaker 1 (01:46:00):
Al right, right, HM.

Speaker 2 (01:46:03):
You talked a little bit about UH Brett Hart. You
had had a little program with Brett.

Speaker 1 (01:46:06):
What are your memories of your matches with UH Brett?

Speaker 3 (01:46:10):
I always good memories Brett. Brett and I used to
UH our thing when we'd work together. We'd take one
percocet and one volume and UH about twenty minutes before
we worked, and we'd go out there and roll. You know,
never had to talk in the ring. We just uh,

(01:46:33):
we just feed off each other, you know. It was
it was like a day off, you know. I I
loved working with Brett.

Speaker 1 (01:46:40):
Right, you also worked with UH Jerry Lawler.

Speaker 3 (01:46:43):
Yeah, I've worked with Lawler several times over my career.

Speaker 1 (01:46:46):
Memories of working with Jerry.

Speaker 3 (01:46:48):
Jerry was easy. Jerry was real easy. It was all good. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:46:56):
I guess what were some of your favorite skits that
you did with uh the Douy character.

Speaker 3 (01:47:01):
U His favorite skits? Well, the one where UH i'd
i'd i'd dumped the water over his head in that interview, right,
I think that was UH in Saginaw, Michigan, or forget
where it was. N you know, I just UH and

(01:47:23):
then on actually in UH summer Slam ninety three when I,
uh Bruce Hart was sitting ringside and I was wrestling Bratt,
and uh pat Patterson wanted me to take a douche
uh Bruce Hart with UH bucket of water. And he
wasn't he didn't know it or anything, you know, So

(01:47:44):
I I said, I didn't even know Bruce. So I
took a bucket of water out with me and a
bucket of confetti, and and I'd douce Bruce with uh
water and he'd come over the railing. And that's how
we started the match, actually, right, but uh yeah caught
him by surprise, and uh we became pretty good friends

(01:48:05):
after that.

Speaker 2 (01:48:05):
HM, as far as the dont character goes, at at
any time, did you feel that uh things were getting
a little bit carried away, like the game was two
out there or no.

Speaker 3 (01:48:16):
No, no, I Uh I never thought that at all.
I I did kind of question when they started doing
uh the double doint things, you know, I right, I
was a little bit concerned about that. You know. I

(01:48:36):
didn't want somebody else jumping on my bandwagon, you.

Speaker 1 (01:48:39):
Know, exactly taking heat away from you.

Speaker 2 (01:48:42):
Yeah, you also worked with Kamala and uh other guys
like Bigelow. Who are some of your favorite guys to
work with in the w W around this period of time.

Speaker 3 (01:48:50):
Uh? I liked working with Kurt, guys, said I. I
could just go out there and work with without without
having to, uh worry about calling shit and I ring,
you know, just beating off of him and you know,
calling a spot two or three words, you know, and
then you know, be there for each other. Kurt heading
was like that M. Randy Savage Kamala was you know,

(01:49:16):
that was a little different, but he was easy to
work with. Bam Bam I uh I, I had, you know,
issues with Bam bam. But yeah, what what kind of
issues did you have with all? Bam bam bam bam
bam bam. Just he didn't he didn't like having to

(01:49:40):
he didn't like having to put me over. You know,
he had issues with that. He he was He seemed
to me to be the kind of guy that in
order to freaking get over, you have to get your
hand raised, you know, hm, and uh that's not the case,
you know, right, It's really not the case. And he
would a little bit put off about that.

Speaker 1 (01:50:03):
I guess what happened when you had the dirty drug
test up there.

Speaker 3 (01:50:06):
I had a dirty drug test. My urine was dirty. Right,
what happened? I was doing drugs and then I got
tested the next day. Right? Why was I doing the drugs?
That's what I did. That's what addicts do.

Speaker 1 (01:50:26):
Was the road schedule really bad up there too? Around
this period of time compared to when you work in
eighty five.

Speaker 3 (01:50:32):
No, it wasn't. It wasn't as bad as eighty five.
Wasn't as bad as eighty five because we'd get days
off after, you know, a week or two. But it
was just old habits, old habits, you know. And that
thing I said about after the shows is when I'm awake,
you know, That's when I'm lot most live. Is after

(01:50:53):
I come back to the dressing room from a match
and I was ready to go. I mean, what are
we gonna do?

Speaker 1 (01:50:59):
You know, right, you can't turn it off.

Speaker 3 (01:51:02):
I couldn't. I couldn't at that period of time. No,
I Uh, I didn't know how to live with myself.

Speaker 1 (01:51:08):
How did things uh wind up coming to an end
for you? In w F.

Speaker 3 (01:51:15):
I was back on uh doing a lot of coke
and uh, Actually what happened was that really started the
ball in that direction was Uh, Sean had uh tested

(01:51:35):
positive for steroids and uh I was told about it
through a friend of mine outside the business in LA.
I didn't know us about it. And uh in Scott
Hall it was you know, there was you know, the
bs in the dressing room. Scott Hall was like bad

(01:51:56):
mouthed at me and saying to calling me a snitch,
and uh, what is he talking about? So Scott had
an issue, was Scott and addressing him one night physical
he it it didn't get physical, but I was calling
him out, which you know, and I had been doing
what I do for two three days, you know, so

(01:52:17):
I wasn't in my right mind. You know, it was me.
I it was something that I should have just laughed
at and kept doing what I was doing, but I
let it. I reacted to it, and I called him
out and you know, had a problem, and uh, Vince
had a talk with me and that's when he uh

(01:52:39):
threw out about changing it to more of a baby
face gimmick, which I didn't like that and I told
him that and uh, but he was protecting the business,
you know. I mean I believe that that decision was
made because of my I was so volatile and uh

(01:53:00):
you know, I was. I was kind of off the
hook a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:53:04):
How did Vince react to everything, to everything as far
as the the Scott All incident and the drug test?

Speaker 3 (01:53:10):
Oh well, he told me, he said, And I told
him exactly what the situation was. He said, But Matt,
it's still it doesn't come to this, and I d
I apologize to him, but you know, I was still
very aggravated and uh in a reaction mode. Uh. But

(01:53:31):
it's easy to do looking back, you know. I it
was my fault. I let I I reacted to something
that should have been nothing right.

Speaker 1 (01:53:41):
Did that whole incident lead to you being fired? Or
was it everything together?

Speaker 3 (01:53:44):
Oh? It was uh a little while after this, we're
in uh Portland, Maine, and uh we're staying in Boston.
And after the after the TV taping in Portland or
that was at a TV tape in a show, went
back to Boston and I was uh stayed at the
Jjo's there and uh uh Mike McGirk and Luna and

(01:54:10):
I were smoking some uh weed in the hotel and
uh bam, bam, you know, bam bam. UH called Vincent,
you know, told him about it. I was fired. Hm, period.

Speaker 1 (01:54:29):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:54:30):
Yeah, that's crazy because back then pretty much everybody smoked
in the business.

Speaker 3 (01:54:34):
Yeah, but you know I was. I was smoking in
the hallway by the back door, you know. But it
was a all the all the pressure on vents with
the lawsuit, right, you know, it wasn't a good thing.

Speaker 1 (01:54:49):
How did you handle it as far as being fired?

Speaker 3 (01:54:53):
Very rough? Didn't handle it well at all. I uh
go I take a little break here.

Speaker 1 (01:55:01):
Yeah, definitely, alright, we're back.

Speaker 2 (01:55:03):
We were talking about, uh when you got released from
WWF and uh how you handled it?

Speaker 3 (01:55:08):
Yeah, I uh not well at all. I uh kind
of isolated and uh got a whole bunch of cocaine
and I uh so I fired and my wife of
one year and my daughter that was a year old.

(01:55:29):
They I went back home from Oregon. I was in
Oregon when I when I when I was fired. So
I flew back to Columbus. I was living in Columbus
and my wife was in uh up in Michigan. She
came back down. I'd been home about four or five hours.
She uh woke me up the next morning and picked

(01:55:49):
a fire with me and I. So I left and
I was gone about four or five hours and I
went back and she was gone. And uh to this day,
I haven't seen her or my daughter t this day.
And uh she had went and I had an account wa.
I had opened the account for my daughter with a
bunch of money in it. And she took twenty grand

(01:56:12):
and disappeared. And I had another account that I was
worried that she was gonna be able to attach. So
I went and got all my money out of the
bank and uh I cashed in. I had these mutual
funds and anyway, I was walking around with fifty grand
in my pockets cash and uh I locked myself in
my my apartment and uh I bought like three ounces

(01:56:34):
of coke and didn't leave my apartment. I didn't answer
my phone, nothing for a month. Well, it was like
a nightmare. Uh this sad, pretty sad, pretty dark place
I was at.

Speaker 2 (01:56:51):
I guess, when did you realize you need serious help
with all your demons and all?

Speaker 3 (01:56:58):
Not till later? I, Uh I realized I needed help,
But I was always wanting to te you know, take
care of it myself. You know. I relocated the geographical
change type of thing. I I had worked with this
independent show for a friend of mine in in the

(01:57:20):
Western PA. We became friends and uh he had a
business that he says, Matt, you cause I was working
the independent circuit on the weekends, and uh he said,
you can work for me through the week book yourself
out of here. So I went back to Columbus and
I thought about it, and I said, well, maybe that's
just what I need, you know. So I did that

(01:57:41):
and it was all good for three weeks or so,
and then you know, I made connections and stuff and
uh started doing what I did, and uh it was rough.
It was rough. Uh it wasn't as bad as it
was when I was in Columbus, but still, you know,

(01:58:03):
not far off. Working on the weekends and partying all
through the week, and it was, uh it was just help.
It was help for me. You know. It wasn't a
life to be leading at all. Then I've got I've
got two young kids and in uh Western PA. A

(01:58:23):
daughter and a son that's twelve and nine, and uh
they're there, and you know, I I keep in touch
with them the best I can. Their mother, you know,
is was not really person for me. Uh, but I
made a lot of choices, you know, uh that I

(01:58:45):
shouldn't have been making, you know, the bad choices, and
she was one of 'em. But I've got two children
out of it and who I love, and uh, nothing's
gonna change that, right, But hm, I gotta live with it.

Speaker 1 (01:59:02):
Did it bother you when uh all the other Doink
characters started coming out? And I was like a revolving
door for the most part.

Speaker 3 (01:59:07):
No, not at first, I you know, I I I
looked at it as flattery, as the biggest compliment, you know. Uh,
but yeah, then it kind of it kind of uh
you know, well the y the character didn't survive. You know,
they tried to clone me a cause Donk was me

(01:59:28):
y right, you know, in a sense, Doynk was me
and uh, you know you can't clone.

Speaker 1 (01:59:35):
Somebody legally, can you use the gimmick.

Speaker 3 (01:59:39):
Legally? Well, I was uh w w F had sued
me for copyright infringement and uh we went through some
legal issues there and then everything was dropped and uh
so I just actually I'm doing a uh a twist
of it now. I'm I'm boo can It's kind of like, ah,

(02:00:01):
I tweaked the character right, and I'm looking forward to
getting that gone. And uh put a lot of thought
into it.

Speaker 1 (02:00:08):
Do you think that can make a comeback in WWF
or was something tow or something that.

Speaker 3 (02:00:13):
Yeah, I don't know, I don't know, you know, I
just I'm just doing it. I'm just doing it to
uh to help myself and uh s keep my keep
myself in the business to a degree and uh, you know,
we'll just take it one day at a time.

Speaker 1 (02:00:28):
You uh wound up in EACW two for a brief
period of time when I was there. Yeah, memories of
uh working for Paul Hamman.

Speaker 3 (02:00:35):
Oh it was crazy.

Speaker 1 (02:00:37):
Talk about a drug scene.

Speaker 3 (02:00:39):
Uh just a just a whole, just a whole. Uh.
The whole environment was like nuts. Ugh. And even though
I was nuts it, it was nuts for me to
be around that because I was never an environment like
that in the dressing room, Guys coming back in raising
hack because something didn't go right in the ring and
throwing things and I'm you know, it was like it

(02:00:59):
was like in a Saint asylum, you know.

Speaker 1 (02:01:01):
Back there. Thought of the gimmick change to a board again.

Speaker 3 (02:01:07):
At the time, it w that was Paul's idea, and
you know I was rolling. Hey, he was the boss,
and you know they were paying me to come in
there to work and Okay, what you want me to do,
and I'll go out there and do it the best
of my ability. You know, That's the way I saw it.
You know, when I work for anybody, I just okay,
what do you want me to do? And then I'll
just take that and you know, UH do it as

(02:01:30):
I would do it. And uh, but it was okay,
you know. I Uh occasionally I'll s watch something from
back then and it was wild. It was wild, I uh,
but I was in a really wild place in my
own head back then. You know. I was like deep
into my uh active addiction and UH doing a lot

(02:01:51):
of coke, partying a lot and uh, you know, living
on the edge.

Speaker 1 (02:01:59):
H Why did you uh wind up leaving ECW?

Speaker 3 (02:02:02):
I had gotten a phone call from a promoter and
UH in Germany and UH contacted me and wanted me
to come to Germany and for three weeks and gave
me this amount that he was I said, woll was
it pay? You know? And he told me what he'd
pay me and I thanked him. But I had bookings
for UH ECW and Independence and I said, I'm doing

(02:02:26):
that here. I said, I appreciate it, but no thanks
he goid, oh, well it take for you to come.
So I came off with this number, you know, and uh,
I didn't think you know, they were gonna said, well,
i'll call you back tomorrow. And he called me back
the next day and said okay, mm so whoa. So
I called Paul and UH told him. He said, oh man,
you can't turn that down, and he said, call me

(02:02:48):
when you get back. So I went and did my
thing in Germany, and I came back and called Paul,
but he'd never returned my call. So that was the
end of that, right.

Speaker 1 (02:02:59):
You. Uh. Actually UH wound up in Hollywood doing some
stuntwork too. Yeah, what was that like?

Speaker 3 (02:03:04):
I was, Uh, that was fun actually, I Uh I
got hooked up with uh Ernie or Ernie or Saddi
out there. He was the stunt coordinator and uh was
on the set of a few movies and uh doing
some stuff and living with a friend of mine down there.
Uh And uh I was down there for about six
seven months doing that. Not a lot of work at

(02:03:26):
that time, but I ended up coming going back to
Portland from there.

Speaker 1 (02:03:31):
Any good uh onset stories?

Speaker 3 (02:03:34):
No? Nuh no? Uh? Oh yeah, okay, I was on
I was on this a set of uh of uh
larger than life with Bill Murray, and uh so a
lot of stand hurry up and wait type of situation,
you know, standing around for hours before you have to
do anything, you know. So I'm standing around and it
was done in the airport. They were redoing the end

(02:03:54):
of the movie. And uh, I'm standing there at this
book rack just reading, coming through some pages, and I say,
I know, Bill Murray, I'm reading this book and it's
about trash on Hollywood stars, you know. I'm just looking
through and it's you know, trash on on guys and
sick stuff, you know. And uh, all of a sudden,

(02:04:18):
this somebody says to me, He goes, is that a
good read? And I turned around as Bill Murray's you know,
he say, who knows how long he's standing there watching
what I was reading, and just goes, I'm just killing
time and I'll put the book back.

Speaker 2 (02:04:33):
What about I guess your thoughts on the business today
and the changes in the business.

Speaker 1 (02:04:36):
Do you still follow the business today.

Speaker 3 (02:04:38):
A little bit, A little bit, not that much. I uh,
I uh yeah, it is what it is. I I uh,
I can't. It doesn't hold me, you know, I I
watch it. I I just feel it's too much, uh,
you know, too much standing around, talking and back and forth.

(02:05:01):
You know, I'll uh, I'll exploit my ego, You exploit
your ego, and we'll try and you know, make a
match out of this. I too much tits and ass.
I think, uh, too much talking on the mic in
the middle of the ring. You know, I just know
I the way I see it. I said, if you

(02:05:23):
do that kind of stuff, I I w I just
see it if you did that stuff outside of the
arena and like somebody's personal life. I mean, create scenarios
where you're doing these these scenarios that they're building out
in the real world, and then bring 'em in in
the arena. It's when they it's when they the throwdown here. Yeah,

(02:05:47):
But to have matches confrontations in the ring, I don't know.
It just a little too much for me.

Speaker 2 (02:05:52):
Out of all the guys that have passed away, Uh,
which guy's death hit you heard?

Speaker 3 (02:05:59):
Probably Kurt It's Kurtz was a Yeah, that was a
that was pretty rough and hawk too. You know, I
got pretty close with him.

Speaker 1 (02:06:11):
Did you know Kurt was into uh what he was into?

Speaker 3 (02:06:14):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (02:06:14):
Yeah, right, Uh, why do.

Speaker 2 (02:06:17):
You think so many second generation guys have a hard
time while other others are like yourself, do pretty well
in the business.

Speaker 3 (02:06:24):
Well, have a hard time in what way.

Speaker 1 (02:06:27):
Getting into the business and uh staying staying on top.

Speaker 3 (02:06:32):
I don't know, maybe because they shouldn't be there, you know.
I I don't know, I I uh, I just see
it that, you know, I'm I just see that the
guys that are second generation, there's something about us that
we have a connection, you know, we I don't know

(02:06:53):
if it's more respect for it or j a just
an understanding of where it comes from m and where
we come from. I don't know, like with Kurt, you know,
I had a you know connection with Kurt, you know,
with just there's some in intangible there that uh that

(02:07:15):
we have that it's not really I can't really put
my finger on it. HM, you know, we just it's
like we understand something that that uh, only we can understand.

Speaker 2 (02:07:29):
What's the biggest misconception about Matt Bourne.

Speaker 3 (02:07:39):
That the choices that I've made in my life, uh
does do not make the person that I am. Uh.
I feel I'm too quick to be judged and believe me,
I've judged myself too. You know, I've uh beat myself
up a lot for the choices I've made and just

(02:08:02):
I'm I've been a reactor in my whole life, you know,
depending on you know, where I am and my addiction,
you know, or my recovery, you know, it depends on
But my past doesn't doesn't have anything to do with them.
You know who I am.

Speaker 1 (02:08:17):
Now, right?

Speaker 2 (02:08:19):
Any regrets, Yeah, I have regrets.

Speaker 3 (02:08:26):
I have regrets. But you know if I didn't, if
I didn't do the things that I regret, then I
wouldn't be where I am at now. And uh, I
wouldn't be the man that I am now because I'd
like to think that I'm a good man. You know,
I'm a compassionate person. I'm a loving person and uh
you know a lot of people probably find that hard

(02:08:47):
to believe, but I know that I am. You know.

Speaker 1 (02:08:51):
Uh any plans on ever writing a book?

Speaker 3 (02:08:56):
Uh? I don't know. I don't know if the opportunity arose,
what would you call it if you were to? Uh?

Speaker 1 (02:09:06):
And uh what do you do today for work?

Speaker 3 (02:09:10):
Well, I've uh, I don't finish, I've finished concrete, I
install flooring. I uh work in construction, A lot and
uh back in the ring, cool jack of all trades,
master of a few a little.

Speaker 1 (02:09:30):
I guess uh.

Speaker 2 (02:09:31):
Is there anything you wanna say to your fans out
there that you never had a chance to stay to before.

Speaker 3 (02:09:37):
My fans out there, don't forget me and I'll be back.

Speaker 1 (02:09:44):
There you go. I wanna thank you for being here today.
It was a great interview and thank you. Wish you
the best of luck in the future.

Speaker 3 (02:09:50):
I appreciate it. Thank you very much.

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