🌴 MIKE GRAHAM'S 2009 EXPLOSIVE SHOOT: Florida Wrestling's BRUTAL Truth! 💥

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome everybody. We're here at all Right video another exclusive
here with Today with Mike Graham. Mike, thanks for coming,
Thank you very much. It's glad to be here.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
So it's fun to see the wrestling fans and wrestlers
and people that I've known all my life.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
You look great, Thank you very much. We're going to
get right in the beginning. What was it like growing
up as the son of Eddie Graham.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Well, I mean in Emerald of Texas, and then we
moved to New York and once kids at school found
out who my father was, it was fighting continually and
my mom would have problems trying to go to the
grocery stores, and it was it was very difficult. My
father was a very disliked man in Amerala and in

(00:45):
New York, and it was hard. It was very difficult.
That's why we moved to Florida and he changed his
career in style of wrestling and got involved with the
Florida Sheriff's Boys ranch and started doing community service stuff
and everything so that the people would kind of leave
us alone.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
And when they did say something, it was in.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
A positive manner, you know, And it was it was
it was It made it a lot easier, but it
was tough. It was tough growing up like that.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
You want to touch upon maybe why you fall wasn't like,
oh god, he was a villain. He was. He was
bad to the bone.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
He and doctor Jerry Graham was wrestling Don Curtis and
Mark Lewin and all the good guys that were in
New York, and he was, you know, they had the
secret gowns and bleached blonde hair. And he came from
from wrestling in Amarilla, where violence and and tough guy

(01:37):
status was very important. And when he hit New York
it was like a hurricane.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
I mean, he was you know, the.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Latin population didn't like him because he was beating all
their local heroes and the crowds.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
And he drove always drove a convertible car.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
And I remember more than one time he would go
someplace and the people would take knives if they found
his car that had cut the convertible top off of it,
and he'd have to like go and get a park,
try to hide his car, get in a cab and
go to the building to work, and then try to
sneak out so that people couldn't follow him to find
out where he were sparking his car so they wouldn't
go the next week and cut his top off.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Oh jeez. So it was it was crazy. Wow, how
young were you when you started going to the shows.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
I think I started going to wrestling matches when I
was probably.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Ten eleven, somewhere in there. I know I was wrestling amateur.
I had already started start wrestling amateur when it was
nine and going to the gym, and because that was
kind of my time for my mom to have time
for her to do stuff. Was my dad to take
me to the gym to lift weights, learn to teach
me how to lift weights and work out and all that.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
And so I was probably around ten when I started
going to the matches. Do you have any funny stories
about people either you know, eating, getting over your house,
or sleeping at your house? I'm sure the plenty, did
I mean anything? Really?

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Dad was really you know, he kept his family life private.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
I mean we would have parties, you know, different wrestling promoters,
Jim Crockett Senior, Vince McMahon, Jim Barnett from Atlanta.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
Different promoters would come in town and he would bring him.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
To the house for meetings and stuff like that, and
we'd be in the gym. We had a gym in
our garage, so we'd be in the gym working out
and everything, and he'd introduced different people to us and
that kind of.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
Stuff, but pretty much kept his home thing separate from
his business, and I think case that was the few guys. Yeah, yeah,
home was home and if he had business to attend
to whatever, then they would either go to the supportatorium
or I remember going out to the airport and getting
on his airplane and flying down to Lauderdale on a
pretty regular basis.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
After the time I was.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
About seventeen or eighteen, going to see Vince McMahon talking
about the wrestling in New York and what he thought
of Dad's opinion of this wrestler was or that wrestler
or all that kind of stuff. So it was pretty
much home was home, and he took care of business
when he was on the road.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
How when did you know that you wanted to be
in the business.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Was it from early or h you know, I knew,
I knew I wanted to be involved in the wrestling
business when I was going to college and I'm sitting
at a restaurant and kind of low lights, and I
had my girlfriend with me and we're having a nice
meal and keep looking at the guy that's waiting on us.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
I'm thinking to myself, I know that guy from somewhere.
When the dinner was over at dawned on me.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
It was one of my college professors, and I said,
you know, I was like eighteen, and I thought, wow,
this is to me that a college professor was supposed
to be the epitome of intelligence. They were supposed to
be the best they were, you know, I mean they
could failure pass or they were like your thing. And

(04:53):
he doesn't make enough money to he's got to wait
tables and want his students to give him a tip
to survive. And there I was promoting wrestling events and
had a pocket full of money and everything else. So
I pretty much knew then. I think, I know what
I want to do. I want to be somehow, some
way in the wrestling business that's.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Good of waiting tables.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
I guess, yeah, instead of instead of working a full
time job and waiting tables to have a no, no no.
You know, he was a college professor duch education and
had to wait tables because he couldn't make enough money.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
As a as a as a college professor. When did
your dad expose k FA to you? He never really did.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Jack Briscoe was the guy that I went down to
the sportatorium and I trained with Jack for a couple
of months and then uh hero for a year. But
Jack was the guy that you know, talked to me
and and uh and opened my eyes and exposed me to.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
A lot of things in the wrestling business.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Uh. He had been my coach in high school. Jack
when he came to Florida, I worked out with him
a lot as an amateur before before I turned pro,
And my dad just kind of acted like it never
really happened, you know. He just said, one day I
was an amateur, the next day I was a pro,
and he.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Didn't have to get involved in it. Good. Yeah, when
you were a kid, how did the other wrestlers treat you?

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Today?

Speaker 1 (06:19):
Everybody's always nice, you know. I mean, my dad had
a lot.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
Of respect from all the wrestlers and and all the promoters.
He was one of the first guys that made the
crossover from back in the fifties, you either wrestled.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
Or you were a promoter, and you really didn't make
that bond.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
But about the same time he was doing the thing
in Florida, Fritz van Eric was going into Texas, and
Roy Shires, who was a wrestler, was going into California,
and there were different wrestlers becoming involved in promotion.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
So he knew all those people.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
And he's had a lot of respect from the wrestlers
because he wrestled, and he had respect from the promoters
because he did such a good job promoting and creativity
and TVs.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
And everything else. So you know, I was I was
treated with a lot of respect.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Where we went. Everybody was very nice because everybody liked
my dad. He was a good guy, treated everyone very
honestly and fairly, and he was a.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Good guy in this business, which is not that's a rarity.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
Absolutely, there was a time back when you're at the
steel window knowing your dad at the National Guard Armory.
How did I you know that was out for a year? Yeah,
how did he take that? Being you know, no.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
I was well, he still went to the after he
was out, really in home for probably a couple of weeks,
and then he had to fly to Houston and that
ripped the retinas in his eyes. And back then laser
surgery because I was I was just out of high school,
so I was seventeen, you know, it's sixty sixty eight

(07:49):
maybe six. Because I drove my car to the hospital.
I just got a call said my dad was in
the hospital. I really didn't know why, and so I'm
laying on the stretcher. It was cut from eyeball to eyeball.
I mean, it was all well, homefully smokes what happened.
And he was home for a little while, but he
immediately was getting up going to the office taking care
of business. Then flew to Houston and did the eye

(08:11):
surgery where they took the laser because it hit him
right across the forehead as head went through the glass
and the steel frame hitting ear and it put so
much pressure.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
That it made his eyeballs go along well.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
When it defigured his eyes at that moment of impact,
the retina's tour. So he was blind in one eye.
Gorgeous George blinded him in one eye, and so the
good eye then they were afraid would still up with
fluid and he would be blind.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
So that's that's when he made.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
The decision to go to Houston and get the laser
thing to seal up his eyes so that it wouldn't
fill with fluid and eventually go blind.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
But that took a while. But still he was going
to the office and staying busy, and you.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Know, all that kind of jazz goes. Back then, we
ran seven towns a week. We wrestled every night, so
there was something to do at the office every day.
It wasn't you know, like, well, well they just ran,
you know, twice a month or something. We ran seven,
seven towns a night, fifty two weeks a year. So
he stayed busy in the office.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
Before you got in maybe I made early on. Maybe
maybe before you die in the business. Do you have
a senor on your dad's booking meetings?

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Ever?

Speaker 1 (09:25):
No, Well that happened.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
That basically happened once I started working out with once,
Once my dad knew he wanted me to be a
wrestling business and he wanted me to wrestle, and I
started spending time with Jack Briscoe and training with him
and all that kind of stuff. That's then when I
was allowed to go and sit in his office at
a booking meeting, or go with him to see Vince

(09:48):
mcmahonor his home.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
In Lauderdale, and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
But before then, no, I was never allowed to I
could go to the matches and stuff, but I was
never allowed to be in any meetings or listen to
any business or anything kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
We know, we're at an Endyway convention right now, and
it's a question I asked you, do you have any
early memories of the Endyway convention that they used to
do back in the day. Sure, gosh.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
I started going to the National Wrestling Alliance conventions when
I was about thirteen, and you know, seeing all the
roy Shires and the Fritz Van Eric's and all the
different promoters from all the different places. And I guess
I was kind of older than their kids, but younger
than them, and they all used to get give me

(10:32):
cash to get their younger boys hooked up. So all
the young guys from carry Von Eric to Don Owen's son,
I mean a bunch of them. I was kind of
their their mentor their evening mentor you know, well the

(10:53):
dads with the wives out having dinner and doing that stuff.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
They come on, Mike, you're single, your single, here's some
here's some money.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
You know, A couple of boys have a good time okay,
so yeah, the National Wrestling Lance meetings were a good time,
a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
When you got to the business, did you feel immediate
pressure of who your dad was? Someone pressure? How'd you know?

Speaker 3 (11:16):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, I mean here you know I was. I mean
he prepared me. I was five time State AAU amateur
wrestling champion before I turned pro. I was the first
person in Florida to ever bench press four hundred pounds
at a one ninety eight bodyweight and AAU competition. A
couple of years later, I did a four fifty five
at a one ninety eight bodyweight, which were things. So

(11:37):
I was strong, I could wrestle. He gave me all
the tools to get as good as I could get
before I turned pro. But even at that the pressure really,
and a lot of it came from him because I
wanted to do good for him, because he was one
of those guys who had seen on the railing at
the Army and watch everything I did. And when I
came back to the dustmen, why'd you do this? Why

(11:57):
didn't you do that? Boom boom boom boom. No, you
bled your head, let your head hang down too before.
You should have kept your hands up you looked. I
mean it was it was a constant school, you know,
of every night. Every night. I loved going someplace where
he wasn't gonna be because I knew I could go out,
I could wrestle, I could come back.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
And it was a constant scrutiny. Okay, what made yourtauch
did your great booker?

Speaker 2 (12:26):
That's one of those things that that what make Berry
Wyndham such a great wrestler at such a young age.
What makes Brett Farr the guy? They have the it factor?

Speaker 1 (12:39):
You know.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
He was around a lot of very very smart men,
Dory Funk Senior and Docstar Polists and everything out in
the Texas area in nineteen fifty eight, fifty nine, fifty seven,
fifty eight to fifty nine through that era.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Then we went to New York.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Of course, Vince McMahon was there, and he was very intelligent,
very sharp promoter and marketing and different things. So he
kind of took bits and pieces from all these people
that he met and pulled out what was important to
him and then kind of molding them all together and

(13:17):
came up with his own, his own pattern, his own formula.
I mean, he could sit in the dressing room and
watch two guys walking around putting their tights and everything on,
and see something in them that he could get out
of him in the ring.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
You know, he could just watch people and his ideas.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Where he was brain was constantly going, and he could
always find something, some reason, good versus evil, big versus small,
poor versus rich. There was he could.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
He could always come up with a reason for two
people to be.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
In a contest against each other, and logical reason, and
he just he had that knack about being able to
do that. And a lot of other people see themselves
as the star, and he never saw himself as a star.
You know, he'd work on the fourth match or the
main event if he thought he was going to make money,

(14:09):
or you know, he would put himself on the card
wherever he thought he could add the most to the card.
So he was never greedy or self issu or any
of that kind of stuff. And he just had a
good overall look at it and was very honest.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
And open with everyone. Memories of training with Boston, Malenko
and Hero and did he never really trained with Malenko.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
I went to his his he had a training camp
and I went there one time, but I worked out
with Carl Gotch. I never really trained with Mulenko. Matt
Suda was two three times a week for a couple
of years, and you know, he was an awesome, awesome athlete,

(14:53):
awesome trainer. He you know, I mean he started probably
the largest number of turned out to be very successful
professional wrestlers, more than anybody in history ever did. From
Hulk Hogan to Steve Kern and Barry Wyndham and Kinda
Windham and me and Paul warned Off and Ron Simmons,

(15:14):
and I mean the list goes on and on and
on and on and on. His his students that have
been very well known and very successful in the wrestling industry.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Did you have a stretcher?

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Oh God, yeah, on a regular basis, that was That
was you know, I mean that you learned.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
You learned, and you respected and you you gave you
a little different outlook on everything when you knew somebody
completely had the ability to hurt you or make your
tap out and wasn't afraid to do it.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
So yeah, Jack Riscoe used to poke me in the
chest when I was in high school. What's a matter
of boy, you got no guts? I mean, I was
just so tired more out and what's a matter of boy?
And you got no guts and just drives you and
push you, drive you and push you. And we were
coming back from a wrestling tournament. He had learned to fly,
and he rented an airplane. Then some real bad weather. Anyway,

(16:05):
we went up landing on the interstate in Melbourne, Florida,
and Jack was terrified to fly. He hated flying. So
we landed on the interstate and we stepped out of
the airplane on the ground, and I mean.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
Jack was just soaking wet with sweat.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
His hands were shaken, and you know, I mean I
was seventeen years old.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
It was fun and exciting to me, you know.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
I didn't think about what could have happened, you know,
and so I saw my opportunity. Then I poked to
him in jesting, what's the matter, boy, he's got no guts,
And he looked at me, he said, hell, no, no
one had comes to crashing in an airplane.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
So it was uh paving. That was my little chance
to get a shot back at Jack. When you first started,
did you ever think about hiding who you are? No? No,
Well I've been foolish. I mean, my gosh.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
I had seen a lot of my friends and their
fathers were successful business people and everything, and the boys
just wanted to completely other direction than ninety nine percent
of them were failures. Well, I mean, if your dad
spent twenty years doing something, and you had a business
and you had knowledge, and you had everything there, why
do you do something different? Why fight it? You know?

(17:15):
I mean I had a great opportunity, you know, so
I would have been crazy to go change my name
or hide my identity or do anything else that that
wasn't in the That wasn't in the plan.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
That was never going to happen. So when you first
thought out, did any you say your dad was well
liked because he was a good guy in the stuff? Well,
but did any with any veterans took you know, took
their anger out on you, you know, get the little
business to you do? Yeah, not really, you know, I mean,
and I could take care of myself. You know, a
lot of the veterans that from the earlier days that

(17:46):
might have had some animosity or something toward my dad
was because they weren't as good as they thought they were.
They'd probably believed their own advertising and there wasn't too
many of them that could beat me.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
So I mean, if they came out and started playing,
I was a player, you know, I mean, so I
Jack Jerry Brisk goes about the only guy that every
time I was in the ring with him, he was
trying the leg died me fire.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
It was.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
It was quite fun, you might say, But no, I was.
I was always treated with respect and everybody knew. My
dad made it clear that you know, okay, I was
his son, but you know he wasn't in the ring
with me. He gave me an opportunity, and I had
the ability to take advantage of that opportunity. He gave
a lot of people opportunities they didn't have the ability.

(18:33):
So you know, I was always kind of my own person.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
How about memories of that that very first match.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
And against him, Corsica Jean, My first match was well,
my first my first match was my dad and I
and Don Curtis and a Toys for Tots benefit and
we wrestled Edwardo Perez, ed Wardo Prez and two other
guys and I don't remember, I don't remember the other

(19:00):
two at the Marine training base in Tampa on on
Gandhy And it's still there.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
The building is still there. And my second match, my
first that was a tag match. My second match was.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
A one on one was against Corsica Jean in Live Oak, Florida,
which was also a benefit. So I got to thinking
I might have not been too smart my first two matches.
I don't get paid for either one of them. I
don't know if I'm really wanting to do this anymore
or not.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
But the excite, dreddling and just breathing, and you know,
it was it was something. It was, it was. It
was pretty cool. How was a team with the dad?
You know that the drellone was flowing when you first
But how was your dad? Wasn't that just charge? Yeah,
I mean it was. It was a little we got
disqualified a lot and stuff.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
It was hard for him to stay on the apron
if he thought I was getting hurt, or it's hard
for me to stay on the apron if I thought
he was getting hurt. You know, the camaraderie between father
and son is pretty intense, and it's a lot easier
for me to stand and watch Kevin Selimn or Steve
Kern getting beat up asposed to my dad.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
You know, So it had its good and it's bad.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
I was always probably more nervous when my father was
in the ring with me. I was always trying to
do everything as good as I could do it. And
until I got over that thing and just let myself
start going and flowing, that's when that's when I really
started gaining leaps and bounds in wrestling and improving and

(20:23):
feeling comfortable and just not getting tired anymore.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
And you know, I could wrestle an hour every night.
It didn't bother me.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
So our closeness sometimes got in the way, but for
the most part, it was okay. Early memories of Vince
mcman you dressed immaculately, just a gentleman, true gentleman. He
had a beautiful waterfront house in Fort Lauderdale, right on
the Inner Coastal Waterway, and my dad did fly down.

(20:54):
He'd pick us up at the airport, and you know,
I mean just remember this big, robust, happy, smiling guy
and good with house. And you'd have, you know, a
little snacks and stuff, and Dad and Hi would discuss business.
And that's how Bob Becklin got to New York. That's
how Superstar Graham got to New York. That's how Hogan
got to New York. That's how Dusty went to New York.

(21:14):
All those guys was through my dad, my dad.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
You know when when he when.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Bob Becklan was going to go out, Vince called him
and Saidaddy, and I need I need a good athlete.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
That can go to schools, that can you know, you
can talk to kids, that is a good public image.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
Dad said, I got him right here, college educated, tremendous wrestler,
good shape, and hence Bob Backlan.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Where there went Bobby then s flew.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Him to New York and did nothing but TV one
year before he was ever seen live. Yeah. So I
mean he Vince took a lot of thought and everything
to what my father said, ideas and suggestions that he
gave him. But he was just always and after the
show in the guard and I mean he'd go out
to the restaurant and then be a table for twenty

(22:04):
and he'd always sit ahead of the table and all
the people would come in and girl monsoon and you
know the couple like my dad. Whenever my dad went
to New York, he was always invited in myself and uh,
he was just always such a gentleman, such a business man,
not the wild and crazy, you know, wrestlers of the
turned promoter. He was always very astute, very very well dressed,

(22:27):
very nice.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
He was a good guy.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
He was fun.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
You mentioned Dusty Rhodes. Early memories of Dusty moonded me
in the dressing room first time I ever met him.
What kind of sight was that?

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Ah, it was horrible.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Oh my god. I was about nineteen years.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
Old and it was in Fort Lauderdale, and I don't know,
it was crazy, but yeah, they him and they both
took an immediate liking to me, and they'd take me
out to the Imperial.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Room, different bars and stuff, and they.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Were terrified that my dad was going to find out out,
so they would like tell my dad said, oh, we're
just gonna take Mike with us to the town.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Like my dad didn't.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
Know what was going on. He was he was he
was the wild one. He was the wild one. He
knew exactly. And they get the phone call at the
Imperil Room, send Mike home, we know he's there with you,
and they'd come back to the table.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
You gotta go, ed, He just called, you gotta go
get out of here.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
So, uh, the Dusty was just always so much personality,
so much energy, just funny and and he was always
always the American Dream. And he came up with a
concept of the American Dream and he ran it by
Dad and the Son of the Plumber and all that
kind of stuff, and Dad say, hey, you know that
makes sense. You know it's a blue collar thing. And
everything was good, and uh, my dad and I was

(23:45):
wrestling Dusty and pack Song and Gary Hart was their
manager the actual night Dusty became the American Dream in Tampa.
So I watched Dusty from day one in Florida and
his whole career them.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
I think since you win that match, they that could
be an interest in the story of the fan that
turn the famous mur you know, he turnedsty maybe he
could just you know, there are people who don't know,
right filled the midd a little bit about that. You
know exactly what went down that match?

Speaker 2 (24:12):
Well, we were we were wrestling, and uh, Dusty was
standing on the apron pac Song was in the ring.
My dad got over close to Dusty and Dusty grabbed
my dad to hold him from the outside, and when
he did, pack Song wound up.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
They gave Dad a big.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Chop when he did Dad duck, he hit Dusty and
knocked him off the apron down onto the floor, and
then my dad ducked around and then he hit Dad. Anyway,
pac Song was on my Dad pounding on him, and
Dusty being Dusty, got mad because his.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
Partner smacked him.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
He rolls in the ring and grabs Pac Song and
starts punching Pac Song and then uh, Dad then gets
up and he jumps on Dusty. And then I grabbed
my Dad and I'm going, no, he helped you. I mean,
you know, because Dad was a little delirious. I said
he was bleeding and everything. So I grabbed my dad. No,
Dusty came in and he got pack Song. I'm trying

(25:07):
to explain to him in the ring that he had
come in to help my dad and Dad was in trouble,
and so then they wound up shaking hands. That was
like the handshake that was heard around the world where
my dad shook hands and huge pop oh yeah, oh yeah.
And then the rest is history and it was the
America and then he had a long run wrestling against
pack Song.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
He wrestled pack Song for a year. I think how
about a early memory of the league Great Gary Harp, You.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
Know Gary was in the plane crash with Dennis McCord
and Buddy Colet when Bobby Shane got killed, and he
just was one of those personality could talk, could do interviews.
He was just all around very compelling, very compelling manager

(25:57):
and a lot of ideas.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
He was a good guy. He was fun, He was
fun to be in the ring around and.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Had a lot to add to the matches and knew
his place out on the floor when doing it, involved
when not to get involved, didn't try to take away
from the wrestlers. Were a lot of managers try to
make them the show instead of the wrestlers and them
supporting the wrestler. Yary was always there to help the match,
not to try to get all the attention to himself.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
So he was a very professional, very good guy. How
was it team with mister Kevin Sullivan.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
We were both really young and Kevin had wrestled some
in Tennessee. I met him in nineteen seventy seventy two
and he wasn't quite the devil yet, but he was
well on his way and we spent a lot of
time together again, you know, we trained together, we worked
out together. We used to go to Heroes wrestling school
and wrestle amateur against each other. Just spent a time

(27:00):
of time with each other. Our families all got along.
When he met me, my first wife was pregnant with
my son, and then his wife got pregnant right after that.
And so I mean we kind of went through life
together as as.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
Young guys, and uh, I learned a lot.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
And and but he he would go to other territories.
He'd go to California for eight or ten months, and
then he went up to Winnipeg for eight or ten months,
and Tennessee and then but he'd always come to Florida.
He'd like go someplace for it or ten months and
come back for a year, and then go someplace and
come back for a year.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
You know where I just always stayed at home? Was
was your dad? Did he come up with the whole devil?
And Kevin? That was all Kevin? Kevin? And uh uh
darn it.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Uh Kevin kind of looked up to and idolized. No, jeez,
the guy, the big guy from Hawaii.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
Uh no, well Mark one.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
But but both Market and Kevin looked up to have
bad scars on his head, horrible scars.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
On his head. Uh God, I can't believe.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
We nicknamed him the King has Swing. His father was
a chief of police of Hawaii. His son later wrestled
for a little while. I'll remember, I remember. But anyway,
King Curtis, Curtis a King Curtis, and so Curtis was
always on the on the crazy dark side and always

(28:34):
said wild ideas and stuff going on. And so I
think it was kind of Kevin and Curtis and Lewin
and just traveling up now you would even drove up
and down the road every day. You know, your brain
was just constantly going thinking about things or a match
or something. You know, you had to do something to
entertain yourself. And Kevin's the one that started putting the

(28:58):
x's on his head and darkening his eyes and you know, slowly.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
Slipped into the into the dark side of the devil.
That was. That was some TV. I mean, oh my gosh.
I mean we had to repaint the supportatorium a couple
of times a week.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
People were, you know, go back to Satan, go back
the hell and no tell them what would We'd come
after TV and see written on the side of the
building that was too vulgar to leave. We always we
had extra paint handyman and I go out and paint
the side of the building. But that was the first

(29:31):
of an ear of of stuff that was.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Really wild and off the hook.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
You know, he did things that are never the snakes
and you know all the water. Yeah, yeah, he just
did a lot of really wild things and uh but all.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
Those ideas, everything was Kevin Kevin. Everything was Kevin.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
Between Kevin, and and Lewin and uh king Curtis, you
three of them, but most Kevin, that was all his thinking.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
That was his brain child. Yeah. Well you mentioned and
you know Gussy's ass. But how was it when wrestling
Dusty and Dick Slater?

Speaker 2 (30:05):
I only I wrestled Dusty and Slater. Well, Slater and
I grew up together. We went to high school together,
went to junior high school together, and we wrestled on
the same high school wrestling team and everything. And he
was he was a tough, tough, tough, tough human being.
He still he still lives down in our area. And
he broke his neck with w c W back in

(30:28):
the early nineties, and doctors put pins in his neck,
then they took the pins out, then they fuses vertebras
and then they fuses. Laura Vertebras and had him on
a morphine pump for four or five years, and doctors
really ruined him.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
I mean, he's he's.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
A good guy and everything, but he's just he's he's
too much morphine and the pain killers and the stuff
to try to get through every day. Has just had
a big effect of his life. But he was he
was a tough son. Mean, he knocked all my cotton
pick and folded all my teeth back. We were wrestling
fort Waterdale, and I don't know why, but he wanted

(31:04):
to tag out and I was between my back was
to his partner, and he just put his head down
and dove his head hit me right in the mouth,
and all of a sudden, my mouth, my mouth wouldn't close,
I couldn't close my teeth.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
I reached up and all my front teeth had been
folded back in my mouth. I put my filmb in
my hand.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
Kate pulled all my teeth down and then dridded to
my teeth and the wrestle cut wrestling with my teeth
gritted to keep them all in some kind of line.
And then I went to the dennist the next day
and oh, broke my nose, knocked all my teeth out
or folded them all back. I went to the dinnis
the next day, told him what happened. He went, you know,

(31:46):
he feel said, hey, he looked you said, everything looks
pretty good. You know, you just have to wait and
see if you get any.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
That turned black or whatever, we'll have to pull them out.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
And they all for everything firmed up and it was
all okay, except my cotton picking nose. It has been
broke a couple of times. That was the first time.
Was Slater dirty dog, dirty dirty?

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, he is by the name. Yeah. Did your dad
ever want to send you out of Florida get experience
or was he just happy keeping.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
You that well?

Speaker 1 (32:14):
Out of fact, he didn't want.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
Me to go through I think the hardship and hard
times that he did, and you know, dragging my mom
and I all over the all over the state and
living in apartments and trailers, and you know, I got
married and had children at a young age.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
I was twenty one when my son was born. My
dad was twenty one when I was born.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
And you know, he didn't want to see my family
drug all over the place. And if you're gonna go
someplace else in Russell, you got to give it a.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
Year or two. I mean, you just can't go for
a weekend or something. And you know so. And I
used to laugh because when I won.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
The World's Junior heavyweight title, went up to Minnesota and
was wrestling bug zoom off in different guys and they'd say, Man,
why don't you come to Minnesota and work up here
and do this, do that whatever. I'm going leave Florida
to come to Minnesota. Will you carry blankets in your
cars in the winter because you might get frozen?

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Are you crazy? You know I'm in Florida. Guys. Everybody
wants to come to Florida. Why do I want to
leave Florida? You know I'm making you know, seven fifty
to thousand dollars a month.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
I was in my twenties. I was in the gym,
working out every day, laying in the sun.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
Life was good. I didn't want to go anywhere. TV.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, and as long as our business was doing good
and everything was rocking a.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Long heck, I didn't want to go anywhere. So no.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
He suggested a couple of times if I wanted to,
but I said, I'm very comfy, right here at home,
sleep mome bed every night, not in and out of motel's,
you know, and all that kind of stuff. So no,
he never did really push.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
To try to get me to go anyplace else. Memories
of wrestling at Orton's. Orton Senior was just he was
so awesome.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
I mean, he didn't do anything in the ring that
was a wasted motion. I mean he he made everything count,
every move, every step, every his look, his his demeanor
is everything. And that's what got his son in some
trouble because his son, Bob Jr. I don't think, kind

(34:24):
of solved what his dad was doing in the ring
to him and just looked like his dad wouldn't do anything.
But when you look through that and watched, he was
doing it all with very little movement, you know, as
far as registering and selling and a facial expression and
all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
And Junior was wrestling Dick Slater one night in Orlando and.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
It was horrible. They come back to the back, so
there goes Hey, man, I'm trying to earn a living
just like you. What's your problem do you? You won't
sell anything, you won't do anything. Orton says something like, well,
if you could do anything in real life that I would.
You know that I would sell or something, then you
know I would Who Slater hit him?

Speaker 1 (35:09):
I was standing in the dressing room talking to Orton Senior.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
I thought a bomb went off.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
The dressing room door flew open and hit the wall,
and I like dumped figure, and here comes all the
building down or whatever, And I as I turned my head,
Orton's Junior went sailing across the floor on his heels.
I mean, they hit him so hard.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
He went through the door and ten or twelve feet
across the dressing room, hit the wall and just slid
down the wall, blood knocked out, and here comes Slater
behind him. Orton Senior jumps in front of the sun
like the hey, you know, Slater said, I just kicked
the kid's ass.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
I'm gonna kick yours next. You don't get out of
them away.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Seniors said, wait a minute now, I'm just I'm just
trying to see what's going on here.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
You know, I mean, he's knocked out.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
What are again?

Speaker 1 (35:57):
What else can you do through him?

Speaker 2 (35:58):
You know, it's like he was tough and then uh,
but yeah, Slater was Slater.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
And back to Slater and Dusty Uh.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Dusty was always more of an easy going, fun spirited,
comical kind of guy in the ring where Slater was,
he was down to business. He was, he was you
had to be paying attention when you were in there
with him. So uh.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
But I only wrestled him one time over at the
Bayfront Center in St.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Pete and it.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
Was quite a match. It was quite a match. I'm
talking about. You will stay with the Orton's Randy Aton. No,
he you know, he succeeded, He's he's doing well for himself.
You know, I don't know Randy.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Uh haven't had an opportunity to meet him one time
and it didn't.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
Go very well.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
I think he's I think he needs to meet a
modern day Dick Slater really.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
Oh yeah, so he's worse than his he I guess
the lack of respect, would you say, Yeah, just attitude.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Uh. You know. I showed him a picture of his
father and myself when we were four teen years old
with my mom to pit with you and some other people,
and he looked at it and he threw it down
on the floor like just to throw it away.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
I mean, I was in shock. I couldn't believe he
would do something like that with his own father in it.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
Yeah, with his own father in it. So I don't
know if he doesn't get along with his dad, you know,
I don't know. I haven't seen Bobby in years and
years and years, so I just kind of blew it off.
And Wade Boggs was sitting at the bar. Wade grew
up in Tampa and watched me wrestle and everything.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
He jumped up. Easy, wait, easy, you know, it's all right,
It's all right. You know, Karmen is funny. Karen's a
funny deal. And you know everybody that gets around and
does that kind of stuff and has that attitude. And
sure enough, four months later he's out for a while.
Motorcycle crash. Calm is a bitch.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
Yeah, Carmen will get you very time. So you know,
and I know he's young, and hopefully, hopefully I wish
him the best. And I got a new baby and everything,
and I hope everything comes out well.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
That he needs an attitude adjustment, all right, Why do
some second generation wrestlers make it? You made it, ran,
you haven't made it. But then you have other wrestlers
who came from great fathers, David Simatino and David Flair.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Just no, it's a funny business and bloodlines. I mean,
you can take two brothers that were born a year apart,
and they're.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Two completely different people.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
One of them can be a very successful businessman and
just everything going great and all that, and the other
brother can be a drug addict and not be able
to keep a job. So just because you have a
name doesn't necessarily isn't a guarantee that you're going to
be successful. You have to have the ability, you have

(38:50):
to have the respect, you have to have everything else
that goes with it. And some guys don't have the
respect for other people. They never get the respect for
the other wrestlers don't have the ability. David Flair, God
bless him. He's a great kid. I know him, but
he just started too young. He was put in some
situations that he was not ready for, and I think

(39:13):
had a lot of resentment from some of the other guys.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
So when somebody resents you well, you can be assured.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
That if they can take advantage of you, they're going
to And I think he got a lot of problem.
Instead of guys wanting to help him and that kind
of stuff, guys resented that he was getting an opportunity
that they felt they should have had, and wouldn't help
him and wouldn't talk to him and wouldn't do stuff.

(39:40):
So sometimes it's just how you're used and how you're treated.
But David is always a great kid. I mean he
was always very very likable, very nice. But you know,
you had the rosy cheeks and great big guys. He
was like seventeen or eighteen years old and didn't look
athletic and didn't.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
Look the part much less know the part. So just
some people, just.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
Some people make it. Some people don't in any walk
of life, whether you're a policeman or a school teacher
or anything, some dude and some don't. And that's just
the way it is.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
In nineteen seventy two, you won PWI Rookie of the Year.
How was that feet did that copy catapult your career
or what? Did you really?

Speaker 2 (40:19):
Yeah, I mean it was really neat to be that
young and to be in that league with some guys
that were unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
Gave me some credibility in Florida. And then I.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Would go to New York and work occasionally, not too much,
but in the magazines back then to be in a magazine.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
In a magazine was big.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Time, you know, because it was before cable TV, it
was before all that kind of stuff. So the magazines
were really the national publicity. So when people in Florida
saw one of their Florida guys in a magazine that
was going around the world, whooh, they thought, boy, he's
really look we got a guy in the magazine. So
sure helped. Sure, it made people respect and set me

(41:02):
a little different than some of the other guys that
was They just said, oh, those were just local guys
in Florida, but your MIC's recognized nationally, so yeah, it helped.
Thoughts on the Hollywood Blondes, Uh, Dick Slater and I
wrestled against the Hollywood Blondes and humpered ink uh and
Jerry Brown was giving Slater a little problem whatever, and

(41:27):
Slater reached up, just grabbed him by the head, picked
him up and just no wrestling move, no body slam, no,
just just reached out, grabbed him by the head, picked
him up, pounded him off the mat, dropped down on
top of him with.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
His knees on his arms, and.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Just looked at him with his fist balled up and
I'm screaming, dog killing, dog, kill him. And then he looked,
he looked at me, and he got up and he
puffed off of him, tagged me and went back in
the dressing room when the match was over. And stupid
Jerry thought he was You know, Slater was a young kid,
he'd been around for a little while. I guess he

(42:09):
thought that he could manhandle him whatever. Another knockout for
Slater cuts out of a bitch.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
At beach Week in high school, and I'm talking thousands
of people, not just a couple of high school kids,
college people from college people from all over the state
of Florida would go to Clearwater, Indian Rocks, all through
that area for beach Week when school would get out.
Slater was the guy that he tried to beat. He

(42:39):
was the man. Yeah, he was the man, and he
beat up college guys, high school guys. He didn't care.
He didn't care. I mean he hit like a cotton
picking horse. His senior year of high school, we had
a wrestling team at school, so that's when he started
learning how to wrestle. Along with being able to hit,
he played football offense defense.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
He once the bell, once the whistle blue to start
a football game, he never left the field.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
The offensive team would go off, he'd just stand there
for the defensive team to come out. The defensive team
would go off the field, He'd just stand there for
the offensive team to come out. He was on special teams,
He did everything. He never left the field. He played
a solid football game with the rest offense, defense, special teams, everything,
you know. So he was just a incredible athlete and

(43:33):
then just everything fell in naturally.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
You know, from the first time he got in the ring.
He had it. He had it. He had it.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
He was in a real, real bad car accident in
the first year he was in the wrestling business in Ambarilla.
Guy driving the car got killed and Slater went out
through the roof and it scrambled his brain. He was
a little slow after that. You could tell he'd really
have to watch and pay attention to what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
And everything he got.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
It was real bad the first year or so after
it happened, and then he kind of calmed down and
he got somewhat back to normal. He was never the
same guy again. That that car accident hurt him, hurt
his head, and then this business is going to hurt
your head anyway, and uh.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Just but he was just one of those guys. Man.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
He was if heuse your buddy, he was. You were
in and he didn't like you. He's gonna let you
know it, you know, and there was nothing you could
do about it. Black and white, Yeah, you didn't like
it too bad. He was gonna rip your head off.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
How about Superstub Graham.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
Soup was cool? He got hit he verne ganya and
Minnesota broke Wayne Coleman his name, but anyway, broke Wayne
in and Vern called my dad and he said, hey,
Eddie said, we've got a guy out here, and big
guy looks.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Good, can talk, he's talk, he's this, he's that. And
he said he wants to be your brother. He wants
to be a Graham. Is it okay with you? We
would like to call him Billy Graham.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
So that's I appreciate you calling me and everything, and
burn because my dad and Burne were very good friends,
had been up and down the road together.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
He said, if you think, if you think.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
He's worthy and everything, and that's cool with me, you know,
if you want to use him at all.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
And so then came superstar Billy Graham.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
But there's another guy. I mean, probably nine of the
top ten money makers of the wrestling business. We're talkers. Talkers.
They didn't have amateur wrestling background. They didn't you know,

(45:40):
they could talk. They could emotionally get inside your heart
and soul and get you off your couch or out
of your house or off your job or whatever and
get you to pay your seven or eight dollars to
go to the live events. That's the way we made
money back in the day, the live events. We didn't
have TV, we weren't making any money from TV. TV
was just a vehicle to advertise the live events seven

(46:03):
nights a week. And Superstar could talk the interviews he
used to do in the facial expression and he was
another one of those special you know. And not too
many bodybuilders ever were successful in wrestling, but Jesse Vintera
came along after Billy and did a good job. But
nobody was ever a bodybuilder and a talker like Superstar was.

(46:26):
He was.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
He was definitely the one and only. How about a
teaming with Steve Kerr Steve and I again.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
He went to Monroe Junior High to Madison Junior High.
We knew of each other then once we got to
high school, we were immediately friends. His father, who Lieutenant
Colonel Richard Paul Kern, was a first officer and Vietnam
shot down.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
With a surface to air missile.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
He was a Phantom fighter pilot and all that kind
of stuff, And so my dad was kind of his
Saragate dad while his father was in the prisoner world.
So he was over the house a lot, and we
spent a lot of time together. And when he got
out of high school, he went to med school in
Mississippi someplace. He made it about a year. He called me,

(47:13):
he said, before I left, He said, you said that.
You know your dad said that he would take me
down and introduce me to Hero and train me and
everything to be a wrestler. He said, I'm out of
med school. He said, I've had enough. I want to
come home and I want to be a wrestler. So
he came home and dad introduced him to Hero and
he trained with Hero.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
For everybody that worked out with there were probably trained
with him about a year.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Got a year before they actually got to get out
and get in the ring and do anything about a
year long process, two three days a week. And that's
how Steve gets started. It was fun knowing him and
watching him grow up. And you know, he was at
my wedding, I was at his way, just sharing going
through life like me and Kevin Sullivan and he and

(47:57):
I just kind.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
Of going through life at the same page and doing the.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Same things at the same time and the same age
and all that kind of jazz.

Speaker 5 (48:04):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
He's still one of my very good friends. You got
any good road stories from that period that's on period
right there.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
I mean, you know, I mean just just crazy things
that we all did when we were kids. I mean,
I was coming back from a town one night and me,
Kevin Sullivan, Paul Jones, and Dennis Stamp. Then we passed
Dusty and sat on Highway sixty. He had a lady

(48:33):
in the car with him.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
So we went.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Uping from those two o'clock in the morning. So we
all we all get naked. We're standing two o'clock in
the morning on the side there.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
At hitchhiking, drinking beer.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
And so Dusty comes by and he slams on the
brakes and slides over the.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
Road and he jumps out with a forty four big
Western forty four boom boom. The age shooting out of
sea shooting up there.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
Well, the other guys they're running and diving and trying
to hide, and I'm standing holding my dear bottle, going
come on, dream you shoot it, ying shoot it and
boom boom, guns going off dirt, screaming, get out, my
get out. He's gonna shoot. Yeah, just silliness, stuff like that.
You know, No, never heard anybody, never did anything. Then
the same thing Highway sixty. Joela Duke and uh uh

(49:21):
the heck was the guy Louis Tillette. We stopped Eau junction.
We're a little bit ahead of them. We're just finishing
getting gas and they're coming up behind us. They pull
in as we're in. Dusty had had some big battles
with Joela Duke and all that kind of stuff, so
we thought it'd be funny to play a little joke on.
We were drinking Yago sangria, so we had an empty
bottle in the back of the car, so I filled

(49:42):
it up with gas. We went down the street about
a mile. I'm telling you're out in the middle of nowhere.
There's nothing on Highway sixty.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
I mean it's no.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Houses, no business, no cross streets, no anything.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
Go about twenty two miles of road.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
That's just a road out through farm country, pastures and col.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
On each side and all that kind of stuff. So
we pull up on the side of the road and
we're waiting, and we're waiting, so we see the headlights
come out of the gas station and you know they come.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
So you get just about up to us. I run
across the street, pour the gasoline. Dusty hits it with
a match. A flame about this high comes up. They
hit the brakes, they slide through the fire. Pull over
Dusty and like two little kids, we run back. We
get in the car. Everybody's laughing. Little Duke runs over
and he reaches through the one that eyeballs. I don't

(50:30):
know you ever saw Joel of Duke, but he was
the intense looking guy anyway, and he's choking Dusty through
the one.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
That you almost killed it its are you crazy? Whatever.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
Dusty reaches down, grabs the Sangria bottle bath hits him
right across the forehead with it, knocks him back out
of the window, starts to drive off.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Dusty had like.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
A seventy two or seventy three El Dorado convertible and
he had painted red and blue stars down the side
of it, the American Dream.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
He made it his dream machine.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
So as we start to drive off, the duke jumps
on the hood of the car and he's looking. He's
on his all fours and he's looking through the window
at Dusty. Dusty goes on, you want to go for
a ride. Dusty now takes off, going eighty miles an
hour down Highway sixty with the duke on his hood,
and I'm saying, Dusty, this isn't good, this isn't good.

(51:22):
Don't hit the brakes, don't turn, don't hit the brakes,
just let off the gas and just coast on down
and all over on the side of the road. Do
you hit the brakes. He's gonna go right off. There
ain't nothing, he's there's nothing for him to hold on to,
you know. I mean, so Dusty's slowed down. The duke
rolled off the hood of the car and got down
on the ground on all fours and was crying, kissing
the ground, and he was so scared going down the road.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
But I mean, that was just stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
Night after night after night after night after night, we
were always doing silly things, trying to keep everybody entertained,
but something that you know that are family friendly.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
Yes, teamut Race Stevens. God, I wish I would have been.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
I wish I would have been older to be able
to see Ray in his heyday with Ray and Pat Patterson.
Ray and my dad were partners back in the early sixties.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
He was just an incredible guy. He had the same thing.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
He came from that school that my dad did, and
in the ring he was him. And I wrestled plenty
of times against Ray Stevens and Nick Bockwinkle. I wrestled
against Ray Stevens and Pat Patterson. I mean he was,
but it was Ray Stevens and Race Deve he was.
He was the guy. He was the team leader you
might say, and kept everything together, but he was He

(52:40):
was incredible. I loved I loved working with Ray Stevens.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
When did you start feel confident as a worker.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
I started in seventy two and probably about five years,
probably about nineteen seventy seven seventy eight, So after about five.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
Years of working seven nights a week.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Okay, but you know what, the best I had. The
one good thing is I had the opportunity.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
To work with the best wrestlers there were.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
I mean, I'm talking about from Luthez to pad O'Connor,
you know, uh, just Gene Kininski, Ray Stevens, Nick Bockwinkle,
you name it. I had an opportunity to be in
the ring with them. And when you're in the ring
with the best a couple of nights a week, if

(53:35):
you can't learn, then I needed to quit the wrestling
industry and go get a job at the seven eleven
or something because and then, on the other hand, a
lot of guys never get an opportunity to work with
people of that quality, so they you're never really gonna
get much better than the quality of the guy.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
You're wrestling against. If you're wrestling against somebody with no
skills and no ability.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Then you're not really going to get any better because
you earn from someone every time you compete against them,
and no matter what the situation is. So if you
never get to work with someone better than you or
knowledgeable or whatever, then you don't make any you don't
learn anything anyway.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
So I had an opportunity to work with the best
of the best, night after night after night after night.
How was it working with Fujinami?

Speaker 2 (54:22):
He was he was smooth, cool, a great amateur wrestler
that made the turn to pro I mean we could
go out and do single leg takedowns and switches and
things that amateur guys did and make it look like,

(54:46):
Holy smokes, look at these guys. I mean, they can
really wrestle. They know, they know what they're doing.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
And he was in really really good shape, very respectful.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
Here. Met Suit had worked out with him some because
Fujinami was a lot younger than Hero was. Hero had
left Japan at a real early age and come to
Florida in like sixty four or five or something. You'd
been here for a long time, and he was it was.
It was the first time I ever really wrestled an
international type superstar to get a feel for the way

(55:25):
they wrestle in other countries and stuff like that. It
was he was something. I ran into a Japanese fan
here that knows Fujinami, I said, Oh, I was Fujinami doing?

Speaker 1 (55:36):
Oh you know, yeah, I wrestled in nineteen eighty eighty one,
you know.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
But he was he was good. He was so smooth.
Where Saito wrestled Saito a lot, mister Saito. He was
big and rugged and sup like shops your head. And
he was a big, burly guy, where Fujinami was more
like Jack Briscoe.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
He never felt him.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
I mean he he was just smooth and cool and
control and he was like a Japanese Jack Briscoe, if
I had to kind of say he was.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
He was very, very I enjoyed working with him a lot.
Barry Wyndam he touched on briefly before. Yeah, I met
very nineteen seventy nine.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
Came to Florida, big, tall, skinny, long blonde hair, just
one of those guys that the women loved, and he
was always just so polite and so nice.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
And he was doing something one night and.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Gave a guy a knee left or whatever in the
guy's teeth went on his knee, and I mean the
next night his knee was swelled up. He got infected.
His knee was strolling that big. And this happened on
a Friday night. We were wrestling Fort Lauderdale. Saturday night,
we were in Arcadia and Barry was sick. I mean

(56:54):
that infection had got in and he was pale, and
you know, we were all hustling trying to earn a living,
and you know, couldn't afford not to not to wrestle.
So I wrestled my match and his match, and then
he got his paycheck and he got paid.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
He got paid.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
I was kind of the road agent, so I put
his name on is that he worked, and I think
I wrestled for him a couple of nights, and but
he got he got his money. I didn't take his mind.
I worked for him and he got his money, and
he kind of never forgot that, you know, he never
that was some I mean it's a one hundred bucks,
hundred fifty bucks or something, but he never ever forgot it.
And we've remained good friends ever since, up and down

(57:33):
the road together and traveled together, and funny stories, and
you know, he's just one of those special people that God.
He wrestled in Japan, got on a plane, flew to
Orlando for the second Battle of the Belts. He wrestled Flair,
and you know, he'd been up two or three days,
flew into Orlando. We picked him up, bring him to

(57:54):
the building, and we're not wrestling an hour like it
was nothing, you know. Uh, he was just one of
those guys that as tall as he was, he knew
how to shrink in the ring, and you might say
so if he was wrestling somebody in my size or
bigger or whatever, it always looked proportionate. You know, he
never looks was towering over anyone, and you never he

(58:17):
he he could adjust his height with his legs and
everything so that everybody looked.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Kind of even. And again now the ropes through the thing.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
And he just is a very very unique, very special
guy that I have all the uh you know, all
the good things I can say about him. You know,
he's just always been a really nice guy.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
How about wrestling Rich Claire, he was awesome. Uh, Jack
got Dorry Funk Junior was pretty steady.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
The match was gonna have a temple like to go
an hour to wrestle an hour was steady.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
You knew there was gonna be nothing really crazy.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
You knew he was.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
Gonna kind of go along or Flair.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
I mean he was like idle one minute sprint in
the next minute, and in durance race for four minutes
after that, jumping pull, vaulting over.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
I mean, he was woo woo.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
He was just full of energy, full of ideas and thoughts,
and his brain was going at it faster than his
body was and he just I met him. In nineteen
seventy three or seventy four, I did a movie with
Ed Asner called The Wrestler, and verne Gania was one
of the guys that put the money up the well.

(59:39):
A lot of wrestling promoters in America anted up money
to do this movie. And Flair was in Burne's school
and he looked just like Dusty Rhodes short Spike hare,
you know, Dusty size.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
And when I saw.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
Him on the cover of a magazine a couple of
years later, Rick Flair with a robe and everything, is
that the same kuy I met that looked like Dusty
a few years ago and just was in shock. And man,
once he once he dropped the weight and got the hair,
and he got his niche and things. He was He

(01:00:16):
was awesome. He was just awesome in the ring. Unbelievable.
I was resting one night and I'd been training real
heavy in the gym and put the sleeper on him.
When I put the sleeper on him, my forearm knotted up,
I mean cramp that I couldn't open my hands.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
We're in the ring in Sarasota.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Oh shit. So I put that arm down and I
put the other arm up to put the sleeper on him.
The other way that one knotted up. So, I mean,
I'm sitting, I'm in the ring, and I got my
fingers are curled in and I'm trying to hang onto
his head.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
I said, hey, Rick, my forearm or not. I can't
open my hands, can't you know?

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
He reaches up immediately brings me over his head, comes
up behind me, and puts like a a half nelson
on my head, and before I know it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
He's massaged in my forearms.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
In the ring. He's holding me and containing me and
rather than my forearm, trying to get the cramps to
go out of my hands so I could get my
hands open again and everything. I mean, he just he
was just an awesome guy to be in the ring with.
You know, I'm very glad that I had the opportunity
to do that. He was something special still is. You know,

(01:01:41):
I don't know how old he is. I know I'm
fifty seven. He's got to be a couple of years
older than me. And to do what he still can
do is just absolutely amazing. I haven't been in the
ring for two years, you know. In my earlier fifties,
I went I'm done with this, the jarring, that I
can't stay in the gym just and the condition that
I really need to.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
I don't feel like.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
I used to, and I thought it was quite quite apropos.
My last match was a Dusty Roads and I wrestling
against Kevin Sullivan and see him punk in Tampa.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
Well that's it. Yeah, three as I can see it
in Punkin. Yeah that was you know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Now I see see him punk on TV and everything,
you know, go wow, Yeah that's cool. And he had
just gotten started, and you know, I was young, and
his eyeballs are this big. He's looking at Dusty and
me and Kevin and these different guys and like he
was almost overwhelmed with the people in the dressing room
that he was sitting in there with. And he was
so polite and so respectful. But yeah, I was, I said,

(01:02:41):
I thought about it the next day. I said, you know,
I'm done. That was fifty five. When the day comes
that I can't go and give it my all and
feel good when I come out of the ring, that
if somebody paid twenty dollars for a ticket, I want
to give him thirty dollars worth the money. And I
just you know. I mean I still go to the

(01:03:02):
gym and work out and stuff like that, but I
just can't do it like I would want to anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
How about a Holidy Race and what did wrestling him?
What did you be your career? Anytime you could wrestle
the world's champion?

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
I mean, holy smokes, that was just just to be
in the ring against a world's champion, to get that
opportunity for the promoter to think that you were good
enough or qualified or whatever. And I wrestled Harley a
couple of times, but the one, the one most significant,
was at the Bayfront Center and we had Harley coming

(01:03:40):
in for a big show and really didn't have an
opponent for him. Dusty was working someplace, and Barry was
out of town. Everybody was kind of gone. Barry wasn't
even there yet. This was in the seventies. Barry Barry
was still you wouldn't but all of our so called
big names were gone. And we had a date at
the Bayfront Center and we had the world's champion. So
my dad comes up with this thing. Rocky had just.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
Come out, So Dad says, called me and said, hey.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
Rocky, come down to Tea, Come down to the Sport
of m I need to talk to you, I said,
who You'll understand when you get here. Get down to
the Sportatorum. So I went down to the sport of
to Urum. He had the camera guy there and he explained.
He said, Okay, here's a deal. We got Hurley.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
We don't have anybody ready to wrestle the world's campion.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
We've got two weeks to get you ready.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
You know what do you want? And so we did
exactly the same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
I went out and run and I had a speedbag
in my garage at home, and I hit the speedbag
and I lifted weights and I squatted and I did
the one arm push ups. And we did a video,
just a simple video like the Rocky thing, and we
put music to it and all that and sold out
the Bayfront Center. And when the Bayfront Center was torn

(01:04:56):
down a few years ago, the top ten events in
that building, uh seven or eight of them were wrestling,
and Jack Briscoe and Dory Funk Jr. Were number one
for attendants, Dusty and Terry Funk was number two for attendants,
and me and Harley Race. That match was the third

(01:05:18):
largest attendance record in that building.

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
So just you know, they're doing the rocky thing. But
then but again, just to be in the ring with
the world champion, and he was. He was. When you
get to that level and you're the world's champion, you
are different than everyone else. You you're a different breed,
You're different cat. And Harley was one of those guys
that was just incredibly strong. Holy smokes. I mean he was.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
He could just grab me.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
With one hand and pick me up and set me
over here, do different things. He was just an awesome
powerhouse guy in the ring. And you would never think
looking at him that he was that way, but he was.
He superplexed Andrea giant. Wow. Yeah, he suplexed Andrea into
the ring from outside. Andre came up on the apron

(01:06:07):
and he kicked him. And when Andre had been over,
he hooked his head and picked him up over the
rope and backed him up under the ring and supplexed him.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
When Andre was over five hundred pounds. So he was.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
He was an awesome, awesomely strong athlete. And mean, you
had the deep, narrow eyes. He look across the ring
at me. I go, oh boy, I hope he ain't
hung over tonight.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
There was a huge angle, Kevin solid it? How long
I controlled that angle?

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
Gat do? What now?

Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
How did Kevin solid an angle? How out of control
of that angle? Gata? You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
Out of control? Somebody asked me the other day if
if my dad ever tried to keep somebody you might say,
calm down or keep him from stepping out before And no,
it was always wide open.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
If you could do something that nobody else could do,
or look like nobody.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
Else looked, or make yourself something special or whatever, then
that was fine.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
And Kevin really.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
His devil thing, and all that came after my It
was mid eighty five. My dad died January of eighty five,
so my dad kind of there was nobody there to
control Kevin.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
So it was Katie Bardador.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
You know, his entrage of snake people and half women
with hair shaped and just everything. He took it to
the limit. He pushed it as hard as he could
push it. And like I say, I mean, people were
saying double go home right on the walls. You know,
we were getting mail and stuff from preachers and reverends

(01:07:47):
and you know, how can you have the double worshiper
on your TV?

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
And you know all that kind of stuff. And then
he just he didn't slow him down.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
He just kept right on ongoing and then it finally
leveled off and people kind of got used to it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
And that he went to Atlanta. Was ever Was there
any ever, any angle that he ever did that just
totally got haywire. Everything was pretty much kept in control basically, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
Every you know, I mean it was pretty well, it was.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
Nothing really got crazy in out of hand.

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
His interviews were really his wild and the ex's on
his head, the Manson thing, and you know, he pushed
some boundaries of social issues that I don't think my
dad might have let him do because of the way
people might have conceived it or something. But you know

(01:08:43):
it all, he drew a lot of money, you know,
I made a lot of money, and he always backed
it up.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
And he never missed the town. And he didn't say
anything that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
He was going to do that he didn't do, and
so God bless him, you know, if he wanted to
put himself in that light. And he still remembered in
Florida as the devil, you know, everybody's the a the
devil lately.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
How about JJ Hillon.

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
JJ was a great man. I mean he was a
good wrestler and then became a manager. And JJ is
extremely intelligent, and I worked a lot with him at
WCW and very personable, but had done the whole thing,
had wrestled, had done some promoting, had then went to
being a manager, and then went to work in the
office and and WWE and was a detail He wrote

(01:09:27):
down everything, wrote, brought his calendars and books and the
things that he would do to keep track of who
wrestled who and who won and who lost and how
they won or lost and just everything. His nap for
detail is just incredible. Along with being a good wrestler

(01:09:47):
a good interview guy.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
He was one of those who well well rounded.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
He could interview, he could wrestled, he could manage. He
kind of set the tone for kind of like Gary
Hart in the Gary tried to make himself the show.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
He was always there to support the show.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
And j. J.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Dillon did the same thing. How about your part of
the booking committee will you?

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
I mean, at different times, Jerry Briscoe and I were
the bookers of Florida. I helped my dad a lot
when when he was running. When he was running booking Florida,
Buddy Rogers and myself and uh, Jerry Briscoe booked for

(01:10:31):
a while. Dusty did some booking there and I helped him.
I was always involved kind of in one way or another,
you know, because by I was my father's son and
lot went out and down the road with him every
day and talked a lot and and a lot of
his ideas of the wrestling industry and people and all

(01:10:53):
that kind of stuff was in my head.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
And Dusk, Kevin Salvan.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
And I booked Florida for a while, so I had
different people and mentors, and but I was involved quite
a bit for a lot of years and booking the territory.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
How about Bill Watts studying under your father. Bill's a
cool guy, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
He was a big, big, awesome Oklahoma amateur wrestle redneck.
The only thing Bill and I ever really thought about
was how to beat somebody up the right way. Guy
came down and wanted to be a wrestler, So that
was my job. Anybody came down to be a wrestler.
My dad said, a Mike come down here, and I
had to. I had to wrestle him. So guy came down,

(01:11:38):
I wrestled, I took him down and Matt burned his
elbows and pinned him and let him out and took
him down, and let him out and took him down.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
Well, Bill was six three six four, three hundred pounds,
and so Billson, let me show you, Let me show
you the way you're supposed to do that. So okay,
So I rolled out of.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
The ring and he walked in and as a guy
walked up to me, just punched him in the mouth.
He looked at me, he said, goddamn, that's the way
you're supposed to that's the way you're supposed to do
with arson. And then he went up to his office.
I was hot on his heels, chasing behind him.

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
He sat down.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
I said, don't you ever come down in front of
somebody that I'm working out with and punch him like
that and tell.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
Me that's the way you deal with somebody. I said,
I'll deal with him my way.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
You deal with them your way, but don't ever come
down and try to embarrass me in front of some
mark and their family about the correct way to beat
up somebody. He said, I'll get it done the way
I want to. So, but Bill was, you know, he
was a good guy. He was very intense. He wanted

(01:12:46):
to learn. He followed my dad around like a puppy dog.
What about this eddie? What about this eddie? What about
this eddie? What about this eddie? And we just constantly,
constantly learning and remembering. And then went back to Oklahoma
and took over Oklahoma and spread out and was running
a super dome and you know, did a lot of stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
So he took what he learned from my dad and
used it very wisely. With Dusty. Did he have to
get drunken power you think? Nah? You know, Dusty's always
been the dream.

Speaker 6 (01:13:15):
Uh he He sometimes can can be a little overbearing sometimes,
you know, the American dream.

Speaker 2 (01:13:26):
I think can go a little too far. We've always
been friends forever and probably always will be. He he
kinda sometimes I think maybe demanded or thought he should
get more respect than he thought he wasn't getting or whatever.
He'd funny to get mad at you should get mad

(01:13:47):
at me or something, wouldn't call me for two or
three months. I had to call him. Well, that's six
year old stuff, you know. I mean, you do that
in junior high school. And so we've had our differences.
But he was kind of the big brother that I
never had thought of him dearly.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
And Dusty loved my dad and learned a lot from
my dad. But you know, drunk with power, I don't
think so.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
I think he was the first guy that ever like
came up with names for events. Hat August Knight, huge
wrestling event we had in Key West, the nineteen eighty
or eighty one Last Tango in Tampa, Tampa Stadium, unheard of.
We did forty fifty thousand people in Tampa Stadium. But

(01:14:32):
he named everything, everything, every event. It just wasn't let's
go see Championship Wrestling from Florida. It was let's go
to Tango and Tampa, Let's go to hot August Night,
Let's go to.

Speaker 1 (01:14:41):
This event that event. He always had names.

Speaker 2 (01:14:43):
He always had that thing going on in his head
for big shows and special names. When he was at
w CW, in almost every pay per view they had,
you know, something.

Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
Stampede and this and that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
Without his creativity for that big show thought and that
big show process and eventually would have happened, but probably
wouldn't have been until years later. He just was ahead
of his time in stuff like that. And because of that,
I think he thought that he should be treated different
or more special or whatever, and when someone didn't treat

(01:15:20):
him the way he thought they should, then he would
get a little pissy about it. Billy Jack Kymes, Billy
God bless him. He came to Florida and from out
of Oregon, and he drew a lot of money. He
looked good and he could do an interview and all
that stuff. But you know, I don't know, I don't know.

(01:15:42):
I haven't been around him. The last time I was
around him was like ninety three, ninety four at WCW, and.

Speaker 1 (01:15:49):
His mind was thinking different, and he was mad. Seemed
to be mad.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
At the world and thought the wrestling business sod him
a living, and was mad at promoters that he said
they forced him to take steroids, and you know, just
he wanted to blame all the issues of life on
somebody else. Instead of just saying.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
Hey I did it, I'm you know, I made a
mistake or whatever and dealing with it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
He tried to make it everybody else's fault and wasn't
everybody else's fault. He get paid every night he went
to the ring, no wrestling promote ever put a gun
to his head and said, you're gonna go out there
and wrestle tonight for free.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
He got paid for everything he ever did. Every wrestler
and everyone out there, they all got paid. And that's
kind of thing. I don't do a lot of these
events and stuff to be around a lot of the
older wrestlers because they're all bitter, miserable and think they
were cheated out of something or whatever. I said, man,
I gave you a life, that gave made you someone
people remember you. How can you go home and not

(01:16:47):
realizing what a special gift you had, you know, and
an opportunity in a time. Let's go do something else,
you know, but don't bitch about it, don't whine about it,
be happy you did what you did, and keep on going.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
Memories early memories of Magnantier.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
I found magnum Terry Wayne Allen. I went out to
San Antonio, Texas in about nineteen eighty two, and there
was this tall guy with big bushy hair and a
big bushy mustache and walked kind of duck footed and
was clumsy looking in the ring, and you know, just
physically look good.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
A ton of personality. Man.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
After the second night there, I called my dad, I said, Dad,
you're gonna think I'm crazy when you meet this guy.

Speaker 1 (01:17:35):
Said, he's not the best wrestler.

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
He's young, but every night we go out, every place
we go, women are all over him.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
I mean like nothing I'd ever seen before, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
I mean we're used to you know.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
Ladies and stuff, but they were he they were just
all over him.

Speaker 2 (01:17:55):
Deskays, we'll get him to Florida's telling him to because my.

Speaker 1 (01:17:59):
Dad and Joe Bland Sure, we're very good friends. And
Joe was the promoter.

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
So Dad called Joe, said, Hey, are you doing anything
with Terry or whatever? And Joe said, no, he just
really started and he's just out here working. So Terry
gave his notice and stayed another couple of weeks or whatever,
and then came to Florida. But we named him magnum
Ta after Magnum on TV, and Dad had him wearing
the flower shirts and he my father created magnum Ta.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
And Terry was just a big, fride.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
Eyed sponge of learning and happy and you know, riding
the airplanes and all that kind of stuff at a
very young career. And he was like when Jimmy Crockett
wanted to compete against Vince Terry was the first, one

(01:18:47):
of the first, if not the first, to sign a contract.

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
It was unheard of in the wrestling business. We have contracts.

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
We wanted to go same place and wrestle, We went, wrestled,
we got ready to leave. We could go in and
say hey, I'm out of here. I give you my
two weeks or one week, whatever you want, but I
want to go to Carolina. I want to go to
New York. I want to go over here. And if
we did something stupid and the wrestling promoted it and
lack or wherever, you could fire us. So there was
when he signed a contract that kind of sent ripples

(01:19:15):
through the entire wrestling world. This young guy just signed
a con for like one hundred and fifty I earned
seventy if I thought, I mean back huge money.

Speaker 1 (01:19:25):
We were all like, holy smokes. It was amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:19:29):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
And then right after that he had his car accident
and the rest is history.

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):
But he was he just had that magnetism for other
people and with a lot of personality, and he looked
good and he had a good run with Nikita cole Off,
and he had a lot of drew. He drew a
lot of money. He was he very good in the ring.
Abdullah the Butcher, oh gosh. I never wrestled against Abdullah.

(01:19:57):
I watched him wrestle a lot. My style was so
different than his. You know, wrestling promoters wouldn't put a
wrestler wrestler against a shover brawler, you know kind of person,
because our styles just were so different that the match

(01:20:18):
would have been horrible. So but I watched him a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:20:22):
I you know, listened and watched and and Abby.

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
I think he's still wrestling. I think he still works
some in Puerto Rico and stuff like that. His style
of wrestling he can do. He dies, you know, he
can push and lean, and he's big and he uses
his weight.

Speaker 1 (01:20:37):
That's his advantage, depend.

Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
In a corner or to do something, and he's he's
he is always going to be Abdullah. I mean, there's
it never will be another Abdulah the Butcher, and everybody
always remembering but he was just had a completely different.

Speaker 1 (01:20:50):
Style than me. Terry Funk crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
I went to a Fourth of July party with him
on Stanley Black, who was the president of the NWA
back years and years ago, and I was probably twelve
or thirteen.

Speaker 1 (01:21:11):
Car Terry was.

Speaker 2 (01:21:12):
In the reserves and people are throwing firecrackers and stuff
forth his lye pop up pop.

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
Terry says, I'll be right back, is it okay?

Speaker 2 (01:21:23):
Thirty forty people at this party, and comes back. He's
got two hand grenades. He went and broke into the
god dang place where he was in the military and
got two hang grenades. So this guy had like a
three or four hundred acre farm. We're out in the country,
so there's an old building. Stanley didn't know what Terry had,

(01:21:47):
so Terry goes he said, hey, Stanley said, you mind
if I light a firecracker and you're building out there.
Stanley goes, no, it's an old building, you know, not
doing anything. Terry goes, well, you know it might it
might hurt it little or something. So yeah, it's okay.
I've been wanting to tear it down anyway, do a
hand grenade in this guy's building and just blew the

(01:22:10):
buildings of the bats. So that's Terry Funk. You never
know what you're gonna get with Terry Funk. I mean,
he's so that, like we had said before, how come
one one second generation wrestler can make it another one can't?
Look how different he and Dorry Jr. Are They are
like two different people, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:22:31):
Terry's wild and crazy and energy and and his.

Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
Interviews and making faces and doing wild crazy stuff, where
Junior is very calm, very direct, very monotone, doesn't get excited.

Speaker 1 (01:22:48):
Everything did. But they're from the same mom and dad.

Speaker 2 (01:22:50):
They're the same couple of years difference, but to totally
different people. Gordon Sully, Wow, I was with the night
he got hired. I liked the stock car racing when
I was a little boy and my dad was gone
a lot, so I didn't get a chance to go that.
I was probably ten maybe, and we went to the

(01:23:13):
uh there used to be Phillips Field was a racetrack
almost downtown Tampa's on the University of Tampa grounds basically
now the University of Tampa uses it as one of
their facilities or something in the stock car racing. So
I was there and smoky and gloomy and the old
cars are going around. So when braces were over, I
like stood up, leaving me sit down for a minute.

Speaker 1 (01:23:33):
Sit down for a minute.

Speaker 2 (01:23:34):
He said, I've been listening to this guy's voice over
the over the PA system, so I want to I
want to meet him.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
Okay, Dad, I'm just a little punk kid. We're sitting there.

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
Gordon comes out of the press box, so my dad walks, Hey,
Meddi Graham wrestling promoter and Gordon was doing some stuff
on the radio at that time.

Speaker 1 (01:23:54):
So anyway that estimate to be interested in doing wrestling.

Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
I said, I love your voice, you know, and if
you'll listen to me, I will tell you how I
want you to announce and what I want from you
and everything. If you'll listen to me, I will teach
you how to be a announcer that I want to
have on my TV. You've got the voice, I've got
the wrestling brain.

Speaker 1 (01:24:19):
Do you want to come to work for me? Gordon said, well, yeah,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:24:22):
So Dad took him down, put him in the ring,
and he wristlocked him, and he face locked him, and
he put.

Speaker 1 (01:24:27):
Him in the figure four, and he armbard him.

Speaker 2 (01:24:29):
And he put him in every hole imaginable, so Gordon
could feel where the pain was, what it was doing,
how it was squeezing. Was it a hole that would
make that would compress your diaphragm and you couldn't breathe.
It's something that you were in continuous pain and so
he worked out with Gordon in the ring a couple
times a.

Speaker 1 (01:24:49):
Week for a month.

Speaker 2 (01:24:51):
And my dad's theory was, Gordon, if I have a
blind wrestling fan at home him to know what's going
on in that ring, I don't want you talking about
you saw John Doe and Betty walking down the street
the other day.

Speaker 1 (01:25:07):
I want you talking about this over here that I
want you you watch that match and talk about that match.

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
So if I have a blind wrestling fan heel, he
can watch TV and know what's going on.

Speaker 1 (01:25:19):
That was my dad's idea and concept of what.

Speaker 2 (01:25:22):
An announcer was supposed to do. And needless to say,
Gordon did it quite well, you know, the best. He
probably go down in history as the best wrestling commentator ever.
And he'd come to the office one day a week,
always partners little Mercedes up on the curb, and he
built a big racetrack.

Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
One time he gave me a lighter like a VIP lighter.

Speaker 2 (01:25:44):
I thought that was so cool. While I was in
high school, I could get into the stock car races free,
you know. But and then his kids I played, and
he lived in the same neighborhood we did, and I
messed with build model cars, and you know, my mom
would take me over drop him off. I'd spend a
day with them, and they come over and spend a
day with me. And Gordon was a very special guy

(01:26:07):
and helped make wrestling really what it is today. Of course,
that's why he was inducted into the Hall of Fame
this past March. And he did a lot for the
wrestling industry with his voice.

Speaker 1 (01:26:20):
Paul Jones said an interview that he left the territory
because he felt your dad was putting you over where
he should have been.

Speaker 2 (01:26:28):
How do you feel about that? Stupid? I mean, he
gave Paul Jones every opportunity, Paul. People are still talking
about its falling out to the top of Gandy Bridge
and threw the Florida Heavyweight Belt off the bridge. And
you know, I'm the best. Nobody's ever going to beat me.
I'm tired of carrying the belt around. I'm just gonna
get rid of it. The people were in boats. He

(01:26:48):
had said that he was going to do it. People
were in boats down in the water waiting for him
to throw the belt, and somebody dove in and actually
found the belt and too get home. I mean, he
had every push, every opportunity that he could get.

Speaker 1 (01:27:02):
So I don't know why he would have said something
like that.

Speaker 2 (01:27:06):
I mean it because when because when Paul was there,
I mean I had just started wrestling, and for the
first years I was you know, second match, third match.
I never I was learning my trade. I never really
did anything. Or I don't know why he would have
thought of me as any kind of a threat or

(01:27:26):
that I was getting opportunities that he should have gotten,
because it just wasn't true.

Speaker 1 (01:27:30):
So why he would say something like that, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:27:33):
Maybe maybe he feels inadequate, Maybe he is some inadequacies
and wants Again, everybody wants to blame somebody else for
their problems. If they can't get the job done, if
something happens, it's never their fault. They want to point
a finger, or they want to blame somebody, or they
want to whatever. Nobody wants to own their lack of
ability or the mistakes in life that they make.

Speaker 1 (01:27:56):
So I don't know why he would say what he did. Well,
any other that's jealous of you?

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
Push?

Speaker 1 (01:28:02):
Did you really have no problem? Any other what any
other vet's you know, any other people ahead of you?
Did they have they jealous of you.

Speaker 2 (01:28:08):
You push you and get with no no, no, no,
I mean gotten. I mean I wrestled Buddy Wolf that
had had a great career in Minneapolis, and Key came
to Florida and never had any issues never again. Everybody
was always very nice. My father was very business like.
I was very business like. I don't think I was

(01:28:28):
ever put in a situation ahead of anyone else that
someone else could have done a better job, or I
never got any special pay.

Speaker 1 (01:28:37):
I never I worked right beside everybody every.

Speaker 2 (01:28:40):
Night, and did you know, did did what it took
to draw money to make people come back week after
week after week after week after week.

Speaker 1 (01:28:49):
That's what our job was.

Speaker 2 (01:28:50):
I didn't care.

Speaker 1 (01:28:51):
I was glad.

Speaker 2 (01:28:51):
Dusty Rugs was the main event, and Packsong was the
main event, and Paul Jones was the main event.

Speaker 1 (01:28:56):
And Terry somebody needed to get the people in the buildings.

Speaker 2 (01:28:58):
I was just glad to have an opportunity to be
on the card to get part of the paycheck, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:29:04):
I mean that's I was happy.

Speaker 2 (01:29:05):
To do whatever it took, you know, just get people
in the building. If we got nobody in the building,
we got nothing to split up. Number One was sell
out the building, and I didn't care if I was
first last.

Speaker 1 (01:29:18):
I never had an ego issue.

Speaker 2 (01:29:19):
I never thought I was better or bigger or anything
else than anybody. I was just glad to be there.
I was glad to have a job, and I loved
the wrestling business. I would have done it for free
if if I would have needed to, or whatever, because
I just i'd loved the wrestling business.

Speaker 1 (01:29:35):
You worked in the Ada Way for a little bit.
How was your dad and Vern the booking? How are
you compat them? Well, Dad Vern, Vern didn't go to.

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
Emerald of Texas and Chattanooga, Tennessee and the crazy, wild
kind of places. Vern was a college graduate Minnesota. You know,
he works on in New York.

Speaker 1 (01:30:02):
So his booking was a.

Speaker 2 (01:30:04):
Little more traditional, down to earth. If someone was the champion,
then he would create some thing or way for the
challenger to get on TV and make a reasonable story.
But as far as like chain matches and the cage
matches and bull rope matches and the wild crazy stuff

(01:30:26):
that we did in Florida, Vern was just as much
more subdued. Later on he had to pick up the
pace or fall behind it. But the good thing Verne
had was snow because when it's snowing outside, there.

Speaker 1 (01:30:44):
Is nothing to do.

Speaker 2 (01:30:45):
So he had a captive audience with a good TV show,
good looking athletes, credibility. He had been in the Minnesota,
and he only had was huge, huge cities. He didn't
go to little cities like Arcadia, you know, and all
that kind of stuff. He worked San Francisco, Denver, Minneapolis, Winnipeg. Yeah,

(01:31:08):
he'd worked in the big, big cities with huge population
and basically in the winter summertime, they didn't do hardly
any business because everybody was They had two months to
be out on a lake or fishing or doing something.
So their big season when they got all ninety percent
of their income was all in the winter months when
people were cramped up sitting in a house, couldn't get

(01:31:30):
out well. They of course had all indoor buildings and
all that kind of stuff. So he gave the people
something to do. But just because Verne was a different
vern was much mellower than my dad. Wasn't crazy, just
different personality denotes different ways things are booked and how

(01:31:53):
they're handled. Early memories of dull Mass from day one,
really yeah, yeah, dumb ass from day one.

Speaker 1 (01:32:02):
He was the epic big man syndrome.

Speaker 2 (01:32:09):
Just because he had some muscles, he thought that people
should really think he was good. He failed as a
football player, he failed as everything he ever tried to do.
The only reason he made it in wrestling is because
he was a good opponent. He was wrestling Rick Flair.
He couldn't go in the ring if you didn't have
Luger's tools. He looked great, cannot take that away from him.

(01:32:31):
He looked great, big arms, lean, but his head never
did quite get in the process. And he was always
a good challenger. He was always a good opponent for
the Rick Flairs and Rick Ruds and the guys that
could get in the ring and really get the job done.

(01:32:51):
Lucer always thought because he had big muscles, you're supposed
to be afraid of him, because he did this, or
because he was taller than you, you were supposed to
not do certain and things, and always had this misconception
of what wrestling was about. And you know, he was
one of the guys that made a lot of money

(01:33:12):
run on somebody else's coattails.

Speaker 1 (01:33:16):
Why do you think the territory was so successful?

Speaker 2 (01:33:19):
Part well, I mean back in the day it was
almost before my dad started the territory, before there was
a professional football team, or a baseball team, or a
basketball team or a hockey team. It was before out
back steakhouse and all the restaurant chains and all that

(01:33:39):
kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:33:40):
My dad kept everything extremely real. People like violence.

Speaker 2 (01:33:46):
They don't go to a stock car race because of
the type of cam and the tire compound and the shock.

Speaker 1 (01:33:51):
Absorbers and the way the suspensions are said, they could
see crash. Everybody wants to see cars crash. People liked violence.

Speaker 2 (01:34:01):
They liked to get out and they could go to
the wrestling matches and scream and yell and cuss and
see good versus evil, and it was event. It was
a recreational ventilation system that when they left the building
that night, they were going, Man, you know, they weren't

(01:34:21):
bad at their boss at the job the next day.
I mean, they got all their frustration out and in
a very real manner, like my dad. You say, it's
a mental and physical game of chess. Was the way
he looked at a wrestling match. And it was successful
because he kept everything real. No stupid fantasy stuff, no fireworks,

(01:34:45):
no comedy acts. No. I mean he kept it very real,
and he kept it very competitive and good TVs. Good athletes,
well respected in the community all over Florida. He was
one of the founders of the Florida Sheriff's Boys Ranch.
Dory Funk Senior had started the Sheriff's Ranch and Amarilla

(01:35:10):
back in the fifties and Dad saw how that worked
and the opportunities and everything that it gave Dory Senior.
So when Dad came to Florida and wanted to change
his image from the villain that was hated to a
good community guy. That was one of the things he did.
He got with the sheriff of Tampa had blackburn at
the time, and then that of course knew the Sheriff's
all around, and they started the Florida Sheriff's Boys Ranch.

Speaker 1 (01:35:31):
Now it's huge, Flater.

Speaker 2 (01:35:32):
Sheriff Boys ranching Girls Villa and they've got eight or
ten or fifteen different places in Florida. When it first
started as one, why vote, that was where the Boys
Ranch was. So Dad got in the community. He had
good TV, he kept everything very real, and he kept
everything very violent.

Speaker 1 (01:35:53):
There we go sex and violence, sex and violence sect.
He left the Sacks out, he went hardcore for violence. Okay, Yeah,
how hard was it on you and your dad when
Dusty jumped? When he left you.

Speaker 7 (01:36:10):
Guys, well, you know, Dad had it kind of it
kind of broke my dad's heart, and that he had
given Dusty part of the Florida territory for free in
hopes that.

Speaker 2 (01:36:25):
Dusty would, you know, okay, if he was going to
go to Atlanta and work somebody, that.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
He would spend time. And Dad had.

Speaker 2 (01:36:31):
Spent years getting Dusty over and creating Dusty Roads and

Speaker 1 (01:36:37):
So when Dusty, when Jimmy.

Speaker 2 (01:36:39):
Crockett wanted to compete against Vince and he got in
touch with Dusty, my Dad couldn't very well get mad
at him because he was going to pay more money,
you know. I mean, we've got a short term deal
going on here. Dad didn't spite anyone for making money.
But when Dusty left, he took Barry, he took Magnum,
he took Ron, he took half the territory with him,

(01:37:02):
And that really made Dad mad because here he spent
five or six years creating, giving Dusty the opportunity to
create the American dream character and live it out, and
give him part of the territory and giving part of
the building in Orlando, and all that kind of stuff
is perks and bonuses. And then when Dusty left, it
was like he was almost trying to kill the territory

(01:37:24):
for taking all the talent with him. So you know
that that wasn't a good that wasn't a good thing.
But you can't spite him for going. If they were making,
you know, one hundred grand in Florida and they could
go work up for Crockett and make two hundred. The heck,
that's what we're all here for. We're all here trying
to earn a living. So Dad just thought he should

(01:37:44):
have done it in a different way, that he shouldn't
have taken the guys with him.

Speaker 1 (01:37:47):
That he shouldn't have if they wanted.

Speaker 2 (01:37:48):
To go on their own, or if Crockett wanted to
get in touch with him or whatever. The Dusty in
the dressing room and in my dad's territory hand picked
the guys his crew that he wants or to take
with him when he when he made his jump to
uh Crockett, So that that made.

Speaker 1 (01:38:06):
That angry cold you take it personally, I guess probably, yeah,
probably did it. We never talked that much about.

Speaker 2 (01:38:11):
It because Dad was a very he kept everything bottled up.
He was very tight mouthed, never said talked about problems
or any of that kind of stuff. He's I guess
he figured his shoulders were big enough that he could
carry any weight or any issue, and then he could
overcome it. That he had created all those guys and
he'd just go create some more. So it never really

(01:38:36):
got the opportunity to.

Speaker 1 (01:38:39):
We do going into a little I guess a little
touch of something, and everybody knows you, and he knows
you Dad, So I'm like, Dad, what happened to you? Dad?
How do you? How do you find out about that?
And you know what, what do you maybe understand what happened? Why?
Looking back now?

Speaker 2 (01:38:54):
Kind of? But I was at the Super Bowl at
Paldo Waldo, California. The Miami Dolphins were playing in San Francisco. Forty.
John Ayers, who had gone to grew up in Amarilla,
was good friends with Terry. I'd been to parties with
Terry South with John and everything, and I knew guys
that were playing on the Miami Dolphins. So they paged
me in the Super Bowl during the pregame festivities and

(01:39:18):
music and all that kind of stuff going on. They
paid Mike Graham, Mike Graham, please come to the box office.
My wife had said, Did they just say Mike Graham
come to the box office. They don't do that.

Speaker 1 (01:39:31):
I mean they'll page people during the Super Bowl. Yeah, ceremony.

Speaker 2 (01:39:34):
I ain't done. She said, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:39:36):
I think they said Mike Graham go to the thing
and ask another friend. Did you hear that? So anyway,
I so I figure.

Speaker 2 (01:39:43):
One of the guys wants to bring me down in
the dressing room and say hi to the ball because
I all knew I was coming and that that you know,
here's here's John Ares said, come down and you know,
shake everybody's hand or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:39:56):
We'd been to Vegas, not Vegas, but Lake.

Speaker 2 (01:39:58):
Tahoe ski in gambling, made enough money, gambling, chartered private
playing the flies from Tahoe to Paul Dualdo, I mean,
living life, you know, everything, Everything was good. We were
having fun. When I walked into the box, I say,
my name is Mike Graham. Page me and the woman goes, oh, yeah,
you got to call home first, obviously. The first thing.

(01:40:21):
I think I had two children at the time. My
son was twelve and my daughter was nine. I thought,
oh my god, something's happened to one of my kids.
Call home.

Speaker 1 (01:40:31):
My mother in lions just fell. I said, hey, luc Stele,
it's Mike, and she just burst into tears. What's wrong,
what's wrong? What's wrong? It's your dad, Dad? What's wrong
with my dad? He shot himself.

Speaker 2 (01:40:45):
He shot himself, and he's in the hospital and he
looked up the machines and your mother, a family member,
has to say to unplug him or keep him alive,
or your mom just can't do it, and crying. Was
like all of a sudden, I was in La lah land.
I can't shot himself. I don't I don't understand. And

(01:41:09):
went back up in the stadium and sat down.

Speaker 1 (01:41:11):
What is it? What is it now?

Speaker 2 (01:41:13):
Dad just shot himself. They went, oh my god, and
I said, oh shit, nothing I do now. Now we
can't watch the game. So my friend, very successful businessman,
chartered a jet and flew us home and I got
back home the next morning and walked to the hospital
and there he sat back in.

Speaker 1 (01:41:33):
The corner of his head, all bandaged up and everything.
My mom was crying, and the hospital full of people
sat down with the doctors and said, what do we do?

Speaker 2 (01:41:42):
You know? I said, believe ever, walk talk, see, get up,
go to the bathroom. Now he's done. The bullet didn't
come out, and the bullet went in his head and
rattled around and went around and didn't just like disconnect,
destroyed everything. And he said not only that, but he
said he shot himself twice. He said, what I guess.

(01:42:05):
The first time he put the gun in his mouth
and when he pulled the trigger, he flinched and it
blew the side of his face off, his cheek and
jawbone and all that kind of stuff was gone. Put
the gun in his other hand and put it up
to the side of his head. I said, well, it
was no accident. I thought, well, maybe he was cleaning
the gun and it went off or something. I was

(01:42:25):
grasping at anything to say. My dad really didn't commit
suicide by shooting himself.

Speaker 1 (01:42:30):
I mean, he didn't do it. Well he did.

Speaker 2 (01:42:33):
And the knucker said, he'll be a vegetable the rest
of his life.

Speaker 1 (01:42:37):
He'll never get out of.

Speaker 2 (01:42:38):
Bed, you know. And I said, you don't want to
live that way. He didn't want to live healthy, much
less in the state that he's in. So I said
will you feel any pain? You know, if we unhooked
the machiner and he said now, I said, there won't
be any pain.

Speaker 1 (01:42:52):
There won't be nothing. I said, well, how long will
he live? He said maybe an hour?

Speaker 2 (01:42:59):
Hour and a half. So I looked at Mom and listened. Mom,
you know, got to do it. He wouldn't want to
be here like this.

Speaker 1 (01:43:09):
So we went out.

Speaker 8 (01:43:10):
I said, okay, bullet and he lived about oh five minutes.
Think who it was only twenty three years.

Speaker 9 (01:43:30):
Ago, but uh, he'd swim him to my house and
put my kids on a raft and swim him back
at his house and sit at the street at the
end of the night wait for me to come home
and make sure I got him safe.

Speaker 1 (01:43:43):
And you know, it was unbelievable. My morning wake up
call every morning. What are you doing today? What are
you doing today? What are you buying?

Speaker 2 (01:43:50):
What do you what are you you know, looking at buildings,
looking at this, looking at that, What's up? What's up?
So it was just.

Speaker 1 (01:43:57):
Totally and then I kept saying, I got to find
his doctor.

Speaker 2 (01:44:01):
He had to have been had to have had something
that was going to killing cancer or something, you know,
but just fifty five and depressed and some business deals
had embarrassed him. The wrestling business was changing, and there's

(01:44:21):
nothing he can.

Speaker 1 (01:44:22):
Do about it. Can you all?

Speaker 9 (01:44:25):
Womb that is all consumed him at one time, and
he just figured, shit on it.

Speaker 1 (01:44:30):
I'm out of here. So that's basically the reason why. Yeah, yeah,
just couldn't take anything.

Speaker 2 (01:44:35):
Yeah, you know, the business that he loved. Vince was
doing his thing, and the talent was leaving, and he
was getting older and he couldn't wrestle anymore. And he
had cut the company up into some art company, into
so many different pieces. I mean, the Hero met Sudo,
I'm part of the Duke Muko, I'm part of it.
The Brisco Brother's own part of it, Buddy colt on

(01:44:57):
the little piece of it. I had a piece of it.
Dusty had a p somebody had kind of lost control
of his own business where he had run the wrestling
business of the world, I mean Japan America for years
and years and years and years, and had some.

Speaker 1 (01:45:19):
Problem at home. Just a lot of things hit him
at one time. And I think, how'd your mom take it?
She she had was okay after it. I mean, I know,
it's a horrible thing.

Speaker 2 (01:45:33):
Yeah, you know, she Uh, we just both dealt with it,
you know. She we just both dealt with it. And
she had her business. She really focused. She had a
company called Lucy's Fancy, And I mean she just went
to work every day and stayed there as long as
she could, and would occasionally go to Highlight.

Speaker 1 (01:45:54):
She liked to bet on highlight. She could go to highlight.

Speaker 2 (01:45:59):
Just tried to stay socially busy with the girlfriends in
her business.

Speaker 1 (01:46:03):
And you know, continue on. What else can you do?

Speaker 2 (01:46:06):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:46:10):
I want to ask this question. I don't feel too
comfortably ask him if I'm gonna ask you anyway, and
you can answer any way, you like. Billy Jack Kynes,
in a shooting the view that he did, said that
he thinks your father killed himself because Dusty took all
the talent and left for Crocket.

Speaker 2 (01:46:28):
No a little piece, a little piece, you know, like
I said, he was hitting that point of life. He
had been in the wrestling business all of his life.
He had done pretty well in real estate. He let
a friend of his outside the wrestling business lie to
him about some money that dad gave him. He was

(01:46:50):
supposed to be buying land with it, and the guy
went and paid for truck fires, and that was in
the trucking business, and when he paid gas for his trucks,
and from talking half million dollars not just twenty grand
or something, half million bucks. And Dad felt and his
pride was just too much.

Speaker 1 (01:47:05):
Pride killed him.

Speaker 2 (01:47:06):
He felt embarrassed about doing that, like the guy made
him look like a fool or something. And then Dusty
taking the guys and this other guy cheating him out
of some money, the wrestling business changing. He had issues
with his personal life with my mom and that stuff.
Just I'm fifty seven now, so I realize, you know,

(01:47:27):
as we get older, and a lot of athletes go
through it at a very young age. They have that
separation anxiety when they can't participate in their sport anymore.
But they're in there, maybe thirties or early forties where
they're pulling. They're young, they're healthy, they got plenty of
other things they can do. When Dad went through it,
it's all he had done his whole life, you know,

(01:47:47):
the wrestling.

Speaker 1 (01:47:48):
Business was all he knew. He had never never done
anything else.

Speaker 2 (01:47:51):
So when all of a sudden he sees the wrestling
business changing and that going over here, and embarrassed by
the guy cheating him out of the money, and personal
issues at home, and just the every every worry.

Speaker 1 (01:48:01):
Look, there was no there was no nothing good that
he could see. Just said I'm done. Do you think
the territory did you think at that time, when all
this was how old break was, did you think the
territory could continue?

Speaker 10 (01:48:19):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:48:19):
Because all the partners were arguing among themselves, and without
a leader, nothing can survive.

Speaker 1 (01:48:28):
You know, when Dad was alive, what he.

Speaker 2 (01:48:32):
Said went, nobody questioned it, nobody did anything. Well when
he died and there was ten different people that owned
a piece of the company, then they started button heads
with Oh no, I don't want to run Jacksonville. I
don't I don't want No, I don't want to hire
that guy. No, he can't pay that guy that much money. No,
and they just it just started crumbling from within. And

(01:48:54):
then Jimmy Crockett put the cake on the ice, the
icing on the cake when he came in and said,
oh yeah, I want to we'll combine Carolina and Florida. Well,
he was trying to figure out how to play for
the damn airplanes that he had bought. So instead of
using on a card with fifteen guys instead of using

(01:49:18):
twelve from Florida and two or three guys off his
channel seventeen, he'd send the whole card and charge the
office four hundred dollars in person transportation. So basically we
were drawing money, but he was taking it all just
to pay for his airplanes. And when we finally kept

(01:49:39):
we ran o'kalla or something. Then had I don't know,
fifteen twenty thousand dollars check. Then Jimmy calls and said, yeah,
send that check up to the office. I need, you know,
here's the facts, the.

Speaker 1 (01:49:53):
Transportation bill and all that kind of stuff. And Duke
came to me.

Speaker 2 (01:49:56):
He kind of said, Mike, we got to you know,
they want the mone but we got to pay our bills.
Whatever I said to help with him, put the money
in the bank, you know, I said, we can't go
on paying his airplane costs. We've got guys that wrestle
and live here. He's leaving all of our guys sit
home and they're starband flying people in, paying them huge
money and charging.

Speaker 1 (01:50:17):
Us for the airfare for all of them.

Speaker 2 (01:50:19):
That's done. We ain't doing it anymore. So that really
was the icing on the cake. Jimmy Crockett bankrupted Championship
Wrestling in Florida with mismanagement, So.

Speaker 1 (01:50:33):
There's nothing you could do about it. I guess no, not.

Speaker 2 (01:50:35):
Really, because he had already taken all the talent, you know,
if he didn't want to send Dust here, if he
didn't want to send Magnum, or he didn't want to
send somebody off Channel seventeen. I mean, we weren't gonna draw.
And then when I said no, we're not sending you
more money, We're not using out of eighteen man roster,
sixteen of your guys, that math does not work. It

(01:50:57):
isn't gonna make it.

Speaker 1 (01:50:59):
And so then he's as well, then we'll just we'll
sever our relationship and you do what you want to
do and I'll do what I want to do. So basically,
it was territories in trouble, I know, was it?

Speaker 2 (01:51:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:51:10):
About it? Did you Vince? When Vince iarted to expand
did you realize that the territory days were over? At
that point?

Speaker 2 (01:51:19):
My dad basically forewarned me that the days of the
territories are going to be over fifteen years twenty years
before they were. He saw the coming of cable TV
way before it ever happened. He saw that if you
weren't on cable TV, that you're going to be looked
at as a secondary promotion, because people were going to

(01:51:42):
look at whateveryone all over America as the promotion. So
he knew it was coming. And when he saw Vince
going out and and see another that Vince Vince Junior,
when he came into Florida on top of Jimmy's doing

(01:52:03):
his deal, well and Vince came in. We were on
TV and Orlando, Jacksonville, Tampa, West Palm, Fort Myers, Tallahassee, Miami,
all those places for free. We didn't pay money to
be on TV. We did a barter system, or we
got half the advertising time talk about the matches that
were coming. They could sell the other half to sponsors.

(01:52:25):
That's how the TV station made their money. Wellen Vince
came in, he says, how much advertisement time you got
on that show? Guy goes, I don't want two thousand
dollars worth or something. Vince says, well, how'd you like
to not have to sell that advertising time? I'll give
you two thousand a week for it. TV station went yeah.
So Vince came in and bought all the TVs because

(01:52:48):
we couldn't compete with two thousand dollars a week to
run a TV show wasn't in budget. I mean, you know,
Tampa was two grand, Miami is two grand, Tallahassee was
a thousand, Gallo was a thousand. You Knowville was two grand.
There were different prices all around. That's how Vince went
basically bankrupt there in the very beginning, was because he
did that all over America. He did in Georgia, he

(01:53:10):
did it in Louisiana, he did it everywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:53:12):
He said, I don't need and he already had USA.

Speaker 2 (01:53:15):
So I don't know why he wanted to go in
and buy the local stations when he already had the
USA networking was nationwide, but he did so. Between him
buying the TVs and Crockett stealing all the talent, that was,
you know, we had no TV anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:53:31):
Without TV, you're doomed, and then without talent, you're dooming.

Speaker 2 (01:53:34):
So we had a double trying to trying to keep
Vince out of the towns and the talent from Crockett.

Speaker 1 (01:53:43):
There was no need to fight it anymore, you know.
Dusty started the PWF Memories of that yeah, you know, well.

Speaker 2 (01:53:54):
It was going to be again without TV, without the cable.
Television was so strong that once Channel seventeen got a
hold of everybody, if you didn't have stars from Channel seventeen,
you just didn't draw.

Speaker 1 (01:54:15):
And then when USA also.

Speaker 2 (01:54:17):
Came along nationwide, and you didn't have stars from USA,
you just didn't draw. So all of a sudden, Dusty
became a The people had been used to seeing Dusty
on Channel seventeen on USA, Now all of a sudden,
he wasn't even on TV anymore, but he was coming
to your town to wrestle tonight. No, you didn't think
he was a star. You wasn't gonna go. Just the

(01:54:39):
name Dusty Rhodes wasn't compelling enough to get people to
come out and go to the wrestling matches because they
couldn't see him doing anything on TV.

Speaker 1 (01:54:48):
They couldn't see interviews on TV. They weren't Oh yeah,
I'm gonna go see the dream whip so and so
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:54:54):
So that was a fast fleeting moment in Dusty's life
where he tried to to run Florida. He tried to
come home because he thought that was the best place
you'd have a foothold in, but he had been gone
too long and he'd lost that edge, that Dusty Rhodes
edge and again and no TV.

Speaker 1 (01:55:15):
So it just didn't work, That's how.

Speaker 2 (01:55:17):
And it just ended, was it? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:55:19):
Wow, your first impressions of Dustin?

Speaker 2 (01:55:25):
No, I mean I started Dustin. He's Dusty. Dusty called
me in about eighty eighty eight something like that and said, Mike.
He said, Dustin, you know, I've tried to get him
to go to college and he didn't want. He wants
to learn to wrestle. He said, I would, I would
really appreciate it if you would be the one teaching.
I want to send him to Florida. I want you
and turn to I'd like you and Steve to you know,

(01:55:46):
take him under your wing and teach him the industry
and all that stuff. So oh sure, Dusty, you know,
he said, I'm sending him down him a couple of
thousand dollars and you know whatever. So Dustin lived in
my office for about six months.

Speaker 1 (01:56:01):
I used to have to go in and.

Speaker 2 (01:56:02):
Take my keys and kick him out of not just
my off but I mean my office room. The Sportatorium
had a lot of offices. But he chose mine to
live in, and his clothes and would be.

Speaker 1 (01:56:13):
In my office.

Speaker 2 (01:56:13):
I'd have to gather all his stuff and go throw
it where he's supposed to be sleeping. And because I
had a little refrigerator and i'd you know, stuff in there,
I guess it was more livable for him.

Speaker 1 (01:56:22):
But he was a.

Speaker 11 (01:56:24):
Brilliant had a brilliant career ahead of him, brilliant career
ahead of him, and just.

Speaker 1 (01:56:34):
Just couldn't keep it together, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:56:37):
Just I don't know if too much, too fast, or
he didn't get what he thought he should.

Speaker 1 (01:56:43):
Have, or he just you know, he met Terry.

Speaker 2 (01:56:48):
And you know, beautiful lady a couple of years older
than him, and uh, I don't know if that divorced.
I mean a lot of times a woman can take
guy's spirit, you know, and.

Speaker 1 (01:57:03):
Make him.

Speaker 2 (01:57:05):
Break their heart, and then a man isn't a man
without the woman that he loves. So I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:57:12):
I haven't been around Dustin too much in the last years.

Speaker 2 (01:57:15):
So it was a shame. He was.

Speaker 1 (01:57:17):
He was a hell of talent, Oh my god, h.

Speaker 2 (01:57:21):
But can only do so much.

Speaker 1 (01:57:23):
You know, we're all just human.

Speaker 2 (01:57:25):
We're all just human, That's true.

Speaker 1 (01:57:27):
Do you think it a territory could survive in Florida.
In Florida today with the right.

Speaker 2 (01:57:39):
Promotion and backing. Steve Kerrn has Florida Championship Wrestling as
a company in Tampa.

Speaker 1 (01:57:46):
He's backed by WWE.

Speaker 2 (01:57:48):
He has the only wrestling school in the world sending
talent to WW So if he gets he they've done
a pilot TV show, Dusty is the color guy and

Speaker 1 (01:58:01):
If they can get back on TV and Vents will
send them John.

Speaker 2 (01:58:09):
Cena a one of their stars, just one star.

Speaker 1 (01:58:18):
A week.

Speaker 2 (01:58:18):
If they've booked three or four or five towns and
the people could see a star off the WWE show
and a star off the local show. If it's done correctly,
it'll never You'll never sell out the West Palm Beach
Auditorium every Monday night anymore. That's gone. That's that's not
ever gonna happen. People have too many choices. They have

(01:58:39):
too many restaurants, bars, cable TV. You can sit right
at home and watch everything you can possibly want to
see on TV. So, you know, gas price is ridiculous.
We have seen the heyday of live events that just
aren't gonna happen again. So it's gonna be hard pressed
to run a money making territory off just the wrestling.

Speaker 1 (01:59:04):
Part of it. It's gonna be hard to do, and not.

Speaker 2 (01:59:08):
Just just just because it's the nature of the beast,
not because anybody's doing anything wrong or not because the
wrestlers aren't good enough.

Speaker 1 (01:59:18):
There's just a lot of competition.

Speaker 2 (01:59:20):
Like now in Tampa Bay, you got the Devil Rays,
you've got the Buccaneers, you've got the Lightning, You've got all.

Speaker 1 (01:59:26):
These other professional sports.

Speaker 2 (01:59:28):
We're back in the seventies and eighties, wrestling that was
all there was. You know, the Miami had the Dolphins,
but that was Miami. But now, I mean every time
a new restaurant chain opens, you're competing against them for
the entertainment dollar. So there's just a lot more options
and a lot more choices for people to do. And

(01:59:51):
the wrestlers of today are not They don't tug on
your emotional heartstrings. They do things off the top rope
and you know, the big muscle and everything, but they
don't know how to motivate you to go every week

(02:00:13):
and watch wrestling. And the guys, the teachers like you
know that could do that aren't aren't around anymore, so
it's a different year. There will always be professional wrestling.
I don't think you can kill it. I mean, there
will always be some form of professional wrestling. So right now,
Vince has got the big game in town, and there'll

(02:00:33):
be your independent shows and you'll have some decent shows
and some bad shows, but they'll always be wrestling. They'll
always be wrestling.

Speaker 1 (02:00:43):
Why do you think that Florida Champions Wrestling still has
a legacy? It does? It still lives on. I mean
just because Eddie Graham.

Speaker 2 (02:00:51):
Because every great professional wrestler came through Florida, every World's champion.
I mean a lot of times world champions didn't necessarily
want to go to Alabama, or want to go to Tennessee,
or want to go to someplace, but everybody wanted to
come to Florida. When guys would get time off to
go on vacation, they wanted to come to Florida.

Speaker 1 (02:01:11):
They all and they all called Dad, say hey, I'll
be in Florida for a week.

Speaker 2 (02:01:14):
You need me to work a shop because then they
could write it off their income tax. Oh well, I
had to go to Florida and wrestle in West Palm
beach tax deductible, the whole vacation. Everything was so we
just had the gift of sunshine and pretty beaches and
water and an area that people wanted to come to anyway.
And then Dad always took advantage of that opportunity to

(02:01:37):
have great wrestlers and good competition and to boys ranches
and just everything that he did.

Speaker 1 (02:01:45):
You know. That's why it will forever be remembered forever.
Do you think that legacy Do you think that Vince
with his his libraries, ands and tastes, does you think
he's doing the legacy of Florida the right justice. Yeah.
The shows that I've seen I thought were very good.

(02:02:06):
He's very respectful. He's really a good guy, you know.

Speaker 2 (02:02:09):
And I had a ton of comment from wrestling fans here.
I don't get the pay channel in Florida, so I
haven't had a chance to see the finished product.

Speaker 1 (02:02:20):
I review.

Speaker 2 (02:02:21):
I look at all the shows and all that kind
of stuff and then do commentary, so I kind of
get an idea of what they're doing. And they're really
wanting to treat it correctly and not use it as
a joke, and to make.

Speaker 1 (02:02:33):
It very serious.

Speaker 2 (02:02:34):
And I think from what I've looked at the run
sheets and all that stuff. They've done a wonderful job,
and I've heard nothing but good reports. Everybody's going, why
don't they have more stuff? I mean, they haven't come
out with anything new lately. When are we going to
see more championship wrestling from Florida?

Speaker 1 (02:02:50):
You know what's going on?

Speaker 2 (02:02:51):
What's this?

Speaker 1 (02:02:51):
What's that?

Speaker 2 (02:02:52):
So I had never had anybody say, ah, you know,
I saw it, but yeah, you know, I didn't really
like it, or everybody that said anything about it all
thought it was great. So obviously the people that are
doing the editing and picking out what they're using everything
and doing a good job.

Speaker 1 (02:03:07):
How did you wind up in WCW as a road agent?

Speaker 2 (02:03:11):
Dusty Rhoads, Okay, the wrestling was basically over in Florida
and I was out on the beach.

Speaker 1 (02:03:21):
My wife and I had split up, and I was
sitting out on the beach.

Speaker 2 (02:03:25):
I think he was just jealous because I was living
on the beach hanging out having fun and he had
work every day.

Speaker 1 (02:03:30):
And he called me one day he say, Mike.

Speaker 2 (02:03:32):
What are you doing? I said, Dreams, I'm doing the
same thing I was doing last week when you called
I'm laying out by the pool. I'm having fun, I'm playing,
I'm doing he said.

Speaker 1 (02:03:41):
He said, do you want to come to work? He said,
going to work?

Speaker 2 (02:03:45):
And what I thought he wanted me to wrestle, because
at that time I was still in my thirty says
only thirty eight, I guess. But Jim Hurd dumb ass deluxe.
He thought thirty eight years old was too old. But
yet he wanted to fell up with one leg. He
wanted to this, he wanted to do that. He wanted
all kinds of stupid things. Jim Herd never wrestled. He
didn't know nothing about wrestling. So here's a guy trying

(02:04:07):
to run a wrestling company that.

Speaker 1 (02:04:08):
Didn't know anything about it.

Speaker 2 (02:04:09):
He was at one time had been a cameraman at
a wrestling show in Saint Louis and filmed some matches. Well,
that doesn't make you a wrestling promoter. But that was
another issue with with with Turner company. That's a whole
another story though, But so I said sure. So I
came up and I talked to Jim Hurd and I said,

(02:04:32):
you know, I said, I'd really think I could help
as a wrestler, because he said the guys won't respect
you if they think you're just a wrestler. They won't
respect you if you're in the office. I respect you,
I said, looked at him. I said, obviously you don't
know too much about wrestling, I said, because the fastest
way to get respect in this business is to be
a wrestler. Get out in the ring with him, and

(02:04:53):
then they see that you can roll right with him
and go then when you say something or whatever, going
to respect it.

Speaker 1 (02:05:01):
Otherwise, if you're just some suit walking around and saying
do this, do this, they're gonna tell you to get lost.

Speaker 2 (02:05:06):
So anyway, but Dusty, Dusty Rhodes called me and I
went up, and that's when I.

Speaker 1 (02:05:11):
Went to work as a road agent, working with Eric Fischoff.

Speaker 2 (02:05:15):
Pain in the Ass when Eric Bischoff was Eric Bischoff
got his job because.

Speaker 1 (02:05:23):
The kid that was in the Wonder Years, Jason.

Speaker 2 (02:05:26):
Hervey, blied and wrote a bogush.

Speaker 1 (02:05:34):
What's the thing when you're going to try to get.

Speaker 2 (02:05:36):
A job and you fill out a resume, A bogus resume.

Speaker 1 (02:05:41):
I talked to Bischoff when he got there.

Speaker 2 (02:05:43):
He was, okay, guy, you know I mean, I said,
I said, man, you could be the next Gordon Soli.
He looked good, he was the TV announcer. He was motivated.
But time this business, and time really can disturb your
brain and make you do crazy things. And the more
he was around, Jim Ross locked him out of the

(02:06:04):
TV room and wouldn't let him go in and do
TV interviews if Jim wasn't there, And so he got
the hate and Jim Ross and Jim Ross was battling
with him and just internal stupid things. Well, then Bill
Watts is gonna come save the day. We went through
all the corporate people to run it, none of them
could run it. So Bill Watts figures, should I ran

(02:06:26):
Louisiana and Oklahoma, I can come in on. When Bill
saw how broken it was and that there was no
way that it was gonna get fixed, the only way
to fix it was fire everybody there, every wrestler, burn
all the contracts and start over again. Because I mean,
people were being paid stupid money, stupid money, and then
stud they're toe and stay home for a month at

(02:06:48):
a time. The big work at WCW was get a
contract and don't come to work, just get you check.
So when Bill saw that he wasn't gonna fix it.
He then set out to get him self fired. If
you'd quit, he wouldn't have got his money. But if
he got fired, they had to pay him for three years.

(02:07:08):
He had a big corporate negative time. He's got some balls.
He had a big corporate meeting with the heads of
the turner and he had a beautiful office with a
great big balcony. You know, all that kind of stuff,
And I mean he did everything. He would come in
with Zuba pants and T shirts and in our resident
in our list or office code, no baggy pants, Gotta

(02:07:31):
wear a tie, Gotta do this, gotta do that, gotta
keep your image. You're walking through ce and and Center,
the media capital of the world. You know, all this
kind of stuff. He'd come in with sweat pants and
Harley Davison T shirts and flip flops.

Speaker 1 (02:07:45):
And I mean he was doing everything he could.

Speaker 2 (02:07:48):
Horrible language in front of female executives and everything, and
he was still Nobody had talked about firing the coop
de gral was. He said, hang on a second, I'll
be right back in the middle of this big meeting.
He walks out on his balcony and peas off the
balcony with all the corporate executives sitting in his office.

(02:08:10):
That that got him fired. He was he was soon gone.
After that, Turner Corp. Says we will never ever ever
have another wrestling person run this program. That ain't gonna happen.
So everybody started submitting their resumes to get the job.

Speaker 1 (02:08:33):
Bishoff submitted a bullshit resume.

Speaker 2 (02:08:36):
He got the job about the second days there, pokes
his head mouth. You say, Mike, come here and talk
to me for a minute, because I had, you know,
loaned to him a gun at one time and talked
to him and kind of was helping try to mentor
him and talk about this and talk about that. We're buddies.
I thought we're buddies. And so he brings me in

(02:08:56):
his office and he says, what would you do if
you were running this company? What would you change? Well,
I'd already been talking to hal Cogan to get Terry
to come work for us, because at that time, Vince
was in all that drug stuff the first time, about
steroids and everything, and Hogan was trying to separate himself
from that. He didn't want to He didn't want a

(02:09:17):
part of any of that mess. He was wanting to
do TV shows, but he hated Bill Watts. So through
Jim Barnett, I arranged for Terry to meet Ted Turner
and be hired by Turner to do TV, to do

(02:09:38):
that stuff and just lend him to w CW for
a pay per view or for a TV He didn't
need to be on every show, you know. That way,
he didn't have to answer to Bill Watts, didn't have
to do any of that. Well, when Bill Watts got
fired then I said, and he hadn't signed yet, I said,
you need to hire Hall Cogan, and Forty brought him here.

Speaker 1 (02:10:00):
He's already made the meetings, He's in well built.

Speaker 2 (02:10:02):
Being gone. It's a no brainer. We were having a
hard time trying to get big crowds for TV before
I went to work for them. Steve Kern and I
will Steve really spent a year going to Universal Studios.

Speaker 1 (02:10:19):
Talking and talking and talking and talking and talking in it.

Speaker 2 (02:10:22):
But finally I went over with him the last meeting
and they were going to give us our own studio.
They were going to make us part of Universal. We
were gonna have wrestling shows like two shows a day,
and the crowd from the Universal would filter in and
fill up the building and we'd have a wrestling match
and Ed leave. I said, you need to go over,
but the Universal was going to pay us to do that. Said,

(02:10:44):
you need to go over to Universal Studios. You need
to get the same thing we were going to do,
where you get paid. You've got a built in audience
for your TV and all your TV's will look good.
He went, wow, yeah, that sounds good. I said.

Speaker 1 (02:11:00):
At that time, we would do.

Speaker 2 (02:11:01):
Like two or three pay per views and three or
four clashes. Well, it costs the same amount to do
a clash as it did a pay per view, except
we got no revenue from it.

Speaker 1 (02:11:12):
So I said, stop the clashes. I said, at that
time it.

Speaker 2 (02:11:15):
Was like, I want to say two fifty three hundred
grand to do a clash, or is the same thing
to do a pay per view? I said, do a
pay per view once a month. We get something.

Speaker 1 (02:11:24):
We're not out there, you know, doing it for nothing.

Speaker 2 (02:11:27):
I said, And if you use your TVs, we'll we'll
take the pay per views and we'll book it like
we used to book Bayfront Center.

Speaker 1 (02:11:33):
We would use our TV.

Speaker 2 (02:11:34):
In Tampa and around that area and build and create
and build and create.

Speaker 1 (02:11:38):
Then we to have the big blowoff.

Speaker 2 (02:11:42):
At the Bayfront Center or Lachlan or whatever once a month.
So I said, we'll use our TVs. We'll use all
the stuff and create and then once a month we'll
have a pay per view. Instead of a big live
of the event, we'll do a pay per view. So
m So I was sitting in his office and he
called Universal. Eddie. Eddie.

Speaker 1 (02:12:00):
Eddie Mansfield happened to be at Universal.

Speaker 2 (02:12:04):
After Kern spent a year talking to these people, then
I went over for the final meeting and we ran
into him at a seven eleven or something. He was
going to He was trying to get some TV show
or something like that. Well, he just happened to sit
in on our meeting. Month after that, Kern went to
work in Tennessee or someplace, and Dusty called me and

(02:12:24):
I went to wcw Eddie Mansfield of this day still
has wrestling at Universal Studios. When I went to work
and Kern went to work, because Eddie was sitting in
the meeting, they thought he was like part of our company.

Speaker 1 (02:12:39):
He said, yeah, Mike went to this, Steve doing this,
but I'm staying here. And he got the.

Speaker 2 (02:12:43):
Wrestling at Universal Studios. So Bischoff calls. They put Eddie
Mansfield and Bishoff had a speakerphone on. Now he thinks
he's a big, cool guy. Yeah, this is Eric Bischoff.
I'm the CEO of WCW. And Eddie was always a
smart ass. He says, what's your name again, Eric, Eric Bischoff,

(02:13:04):
Eric Bischoff, I don't believe I've heard of you.

Speaker 1 (02:13:07):
What is it that you're.

Speaker 2 (02:13:08):
Wanting to do. He says, well, I want to I'd
like to come over and wrestle at your venue and
do TV stuff like that. And he goes, now, I've
already got wrestling, and I've got wrestlers, and I've got
TV I really don't need and hung up on him.

Speaker 1 (02:13:21):
You could see the smoke coming out Bischoff's ears. He
was so mad.

Speaker 2 (02:13:26):
I got up.

Speaker 1 (02:13:26):
I walked to the door. I looked over at him.

Speaker 2 (02:13:28):
I said, Disney's right next door, same theme park, same thing,
but bigger. He said, oh yeah, I can really see
pro wrestling and Mickey Mouse going together. A month later
we were doing TV at Disney. Month after that, Hogan
was hired. Month after that, no more clashes. I gave

(02:13:50):
Eric Bischoff his key to success of that company, and
he just went crazy, went crazy just giving people stupid
comment tracks. God, you talking about somebody that got drunk
with power. It was and he was a real jerk off,
you know he. I have no respect for him in

(02:14:13):
any way. And I hope you hear this interview, Eric,
because you're a thief and you're no good. So that's
a fact. He should never have been in the wrestling business.
He's single handedly bankrupted w CW. I'm surprised he's not
in prison. I'm surprised he's not in prison of corporate fraud.

Speaker 1 (02:14:33):
Really. Yeah, Yeah, it's bad.

Speaker 2 (02:14:36):
Yes, And he Sting and Luger and Flair and everybody
had had the same music for fifteen years. Eric Bischoff
starts a music company and says, no, we're not going
to use that other music. We're not gonna We're gonna

(02:14:56):
rewrite everybody's music, and I'm gonna give the contract to
my music company.

Speaker 1 (02:15:03):
He was signing the checks. He was signing the checks,
poster the window cards.

Speaker 2 (02:15:10):
We'd use the same window card company, printing company forever.
He puts Buff Bagwell and his mother in the printing
company business, gives them the contract to print all the
cards for WCW gives one of his other oriental buddies
in Oregon or something like that, the rights to sell

(02:15:31):
T shirts to Japan. When nWo came out Huge, Eric
was selling the T shirts to his buddy or WCW,
but Eric was running it. Eric was in, Yeah, so
I'm to him for five bucks. Yeah, do this, Yeah,
Send four hundred thousand dollars to the music company, Send
two hundred thousand to the printing company.

Speaker 1 (02:15:51):
Do this, do that.

Speaker 2 (02:15:52):
He was okay and everything, sending money to himself, beat
companies that he owned.

Speaker 1 (02:15:57):
Part of sold.

Speaker 2 (02:16:00):
Anne was sending the Japanese guy his car dealer friend
or something and wherever it was huge checks and Eric
and hand were partners together. And it goes further than that.
Kevin Sullivan was there through all that. I was gone,
I had enough, I left. Kevin was there and the

(02:16:25):
it's I just don't see how some people have been
able to make it through and not just gotten massive trouble.
And he's just a dishonest, no good thief from me
to you.

Speaker 1 (02:16:42):
Eric cherk Off, Well, when I was talking about WCW,
besides Eric Bischoff, was it as a freaking Louis Bin
like people said it was. They were the whole The
whole thing was get a big contract.

Speaker 2 (02:16:59):
Uh, like you're hurt and don't go to work at
one time like that, we said, we call like the
top twenty main event guys. Three of them were working,
seventeen were sitting at home, and they're making a million
a year, eight hundred thousand a year, seven hundred thousand
a year. The month. The weekly money that was going

(02:17:22):
out for these guys was unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (02:17:26):
Unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (02:17:27):
The Mexican guys that were coming up with Conan and
and all that group, when there was like thirty Mexicans working,
they were all making like one hundred and fifty thousand
dollars a year apiece. And I got a feeling if
that was looked into, there was one check going to
a Mexican promotion company that Eric Mischoff probably owned part of.

Speaker 1 (02:17:56):
So it was a zoo it was it was the
tail was and the dog.

Speaker 2 (02:18:01):
It was just no, it was insane. That's why the
last couple of years I was there, I just Withdrew
from TV didn't want to be I went to the
Powerhouse and tried to teach young guys how to wrestle
and work with Paul warned off.

Speaker 1 (02:18:13):
Paul was running the school. Paul started in my office.

Speaker 2 (02:18:16):
In Tampa, and I didn't want to be around the TV,
so I didn't want to be around the people and
that other dip shit they sent down there, Vince Russo
from New York. I mean, he couldn't have booked a
phone booth we walked out of for Kevin Selivan. I
worked out of the first booking meeting and I looked
at Kevin, I said, was could that have been a joke?

(02:18:38):
That booking meeting we just came out of. Okay, I
don't know nothing about wrestling, nothing nothing. He's our boss.
And that is when it started crumbling, when when Russo
got there, and then it just progressively got worse, and
then Bischoff got crazier, and you just Bischoff single handley
bankrupted the company.

Speaker 1 (02:19:00):
So even bringing Hogan over, nothing changed.

Speaker 2 (02:19:03):
Because here came Bill Goldberg, and Goldberg was a natural phenomenon.

Speaker 1 (02:19:11):
He really got over fast in the first six months
of his career.

Speaker 2 (02:19:21):
Kevin Nash wanted Kevin Nash got the booking job.

Speaker 1 (02:19:27):
And I love Kevin. He's he's right online with.

Speaker 2 (02:19:31):
Buddy Rogers and some of the real thinkers, you know
that that that keepverything stirred up, that never let anybody
get better than them and you know, or over better
than them or whatever. When they had Bill Goldberg beat
Hogan and then Nash beat Goldberg, now Hogan's been beat,

(02:19:56):
Goldberg's been beat.

Speaker 1 (02:19:57):
And Kevin wasn't over that well.

Speaker 2 (02:20:00):
Kevin was the big guy, you know, had just had
been had been some but they had nWo He and
Scott Hall were together, Scott's talented guy, but Scott had
got his brain and some difficulty and then it was
just Kevin. And Kevin had had some knee surgeries and everything,
and his mobility in the ring was was getting he

(02:20:20):
was getting a little older and he was having a
harder time getting around. So when when Goldberg beat Hogan
and the Nash beating Goldberg, that just kind of sizzled
everything off. It just kind of nobody was over. Nobody
really meant anything. Everybody was touchable or it just washed
it all. Everything was just a wash. People didn't care.

(02:20:43):
Heven beat They've been beat, he beat him, they beat him,
didn't have any importance anymore.

Speaker 1 (02:20:50):
And Goldberg an interview after winning the World's title. The
announcer says, and Bill Goldberg, you just won the world's
title and you've done this. What's the biggest most important
thing in your career that you'll ever remember?

Speaker 2 (02:21:08):
And Bill says, the first time I ever walked out
onto a football stadium wearing a professional football jersey.

Speaker 1 (02:21:17):
I couldn't believe.

Speaker 2 (02:21:17):
He said that he was a world champion.

Speaker 1 (02:21:21):
And he's talking about as big as day.

Speaker 2 (02:21:24):
In his career was when he went out on a
football field that he didn't have a career.

Speaker 1 (02:21:29):
He played that might have been his only game or something.

Speaker 2 (02:21:32):
Why not give the credibility to the company that's paying
your bills, it's earning you a living. You're the world's champion.
That wasn't a big day. So there was a lot
of people up there that just didn't get it. They
didn't understand, they didn't they just didn't get it, and
then they killed it from within.

Speaker 1 (02:21:52):
Hys stupid nuts don't get it. Yeah, well, we're gonna
We're gonna stay with the controversial, keep going with this
is going good. There's an incident we have we joked
about all day today, the squeegee incident with you and
a very nice man. Yeah, sious one one a human being. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,

(02:22:13):
I agree. Can you tell us a little about that
whole intent? Did everybody everybody heard there was other people
involved in that. I don't know how to do know
that you were involved in the same squege incident.

Speaker 2 (02:22:25):
Came back from I don't know, Montgomery, Alabama or something.
We just finished TV. Terry Allen and uh god bless
Brian Pillman was there and I was there, and they
had had a couple of drinks and was kind of
nodding off a little bit.

Speaker 1 (02:22:41):
And Sid had just left w c W and gone
to w w F.

Speaker 2 (02:22:46):
So he's sitting over at the bar, and uh went
and sting him for I been gone for a couple
of months. And I just say, hey, Sid, how are you?
And went back, sat down and Sid gets up, walks over,
sits down and commenced telling us what a chicken shit
company WCW is and everybody that works there stupid, and
WWE is the place to be and just then and then,

(02:23:09):
well we all still work for WCW. We had pride
in what we were doing. I didn't want somebody telling
me that we were dull masses or that the company
sawed or anything else. So I just said, said, why
don't you go back over and tell the girl that
story at the bar. She'll believe it. I'm not going
to He said, you might, gran you're a loser. I've
made more money in the last two months than you'll

(02:23:31):
make here all year.

Speaker 1 (02:23:33):
You've spent your life.

Speaker 2 (02:23:34):
I've done this, I've done that. I looked across the
table at him, stood up. I said, sid Well, you
said might be true. But I said, this loser that
hasn't made as much money as you was just about
to kick your ass. And he gets up out of
the chair and he stitches interview chin out. He could

(02:23:55):
do a hell of an interview, you know, but I
wasn't buying it. He wouldn't cut an interview on a
wrestling fan. I wasn't wrestling fan. And I says, I
went around the table. He like dropped his arm and
he said, well, if you want to beat up a
guy with one arm, go ahead. He said one arm.
Said shit, looks like you got two arms to me,
and they're three times the sides of mine. You have it,

(02:24:17):
and he pulls his shirt sleeve up. He had a
little band aid, a little band aid on I ripped
my bicep today. Oh I Sid, get out of here.
Just go home, you know, don't come in here and
insult us and then act like this. I said, just
go home. I helped him put his wind breaker on.
It was gonna go. I helped him put his wind
breaker on.

Speaker 1 (02:24:35):
Everything. Steve walks out the door. So I'm standing in
my back to the door.

Speaker 2 (02:24:40):
I'm trying to get Brian up and terry to get
him to the room and all that kind of stuff, and.

Speaker 1 (02:24:44):
From behind me, I hear, all right, Graham, I'm ready
for you.

Speaker 2 (02:24:47):
Now.

Speaker 1 (02:24:48):
It's going to be an even fight. Now, I'm ready
for you. I thought he was kidding.

Speaker 2 (02:24:53):
I turned around and look, he's got a squeegee like
you clean your winder with the squeagy in his hand.

Speaker 1 (02:24:58):
I looked at him and went, are you serious?

Speaker 2 (02:25:02):
He goes, yeah, he's in the breaking like he's in
a position where he's gonna move or fight or something.
I walked over to him. I snatched a squeege out
of his hand and I thumped him on the chest
with it.

Speaker 1 (02:25:13):
I said, Sid, get out of here before I stick.

Speaker 2 (02:25:17):
This up your ass.

Speaker 1 (02:25:19):
And I handed it back to him and he took
it and put his arms down. He walked around. I thought, Jesus,
here's six', eight three hundred.

Speaker 2 (02:25:26):
Pounds if he comes in with a tire iron or
something in my back's, turn he could do some. DAMAGE
i better pay attention this next. Time SO i walked
out into the lobby to see what he was going,
to if he was gonna come back with, something or
what he was. Doing and he had moved his car
up to the front of the hotel so he, COULD i,
guess beat me up with a scooge and make the big.
Escape when he saw me standing in the, lobby starts.

Speaker 1 (02:25:46):
Going i'm gonna kick your ask gream you ain't no.

Speaker 2 (02:25:49):
GOOD i, mean like a temper tantrum that a junior
high school cheerleader would throw or. Something so he gets
in his car and he drives. OFF i didn't think
anything else about. IT i Get brian Up terry and
get them to the bed and, everything and.

Speaker 1 (02:26:04):
The next NIGHT i was we had a show In.

Speaker 2 (02:26:07):
Charlotte. NOW i went to the ring to Wrestle Brad
armstrong and when they rang the bell to start the,
match That chan had started, squeegeee, squeegeee squeegeee and before
long the whole arena's screaming. Squeegeee but how did these
people find out there was only three or four people

(02:26:27):
in the. BAR i didn't say. ANYTHING i didn't, call you,
KNOW i wasn't proud of what had. Happened you, KNOW
i was, said that was a bad night you drink.
IN i just kind of blew it. Off but, man
it went like fire through. Everywhere and then shortly after
that he got fired FROM. Wwe And Brett harts is

(02:26:47):
a very good, artist and he drew a drawing with
a dozen red, roses me pilming on my shoulders and.

Speaker 1 (02:26:56):
Sid bent over and a dozen red roses and out
of his dairy air that was in the dressing, room
his dressing.

Speaker 2 (02:27:03):
Room the next, NIGHT i, mean the words, spread AND
i don't HOW i had to this. DAY i do
not know how anybody found out about. It they, did
and you, know it was. Unfortunate it was. Unfortunate and
then then he came back to W cw a couple
of years, later and we get along well and everything was,
fine and you, know he just was having a bad

(02:27:23):
moment or he was always a very didn't take pain,
pills didn't, drink didn't do anything on the. Road he,
trained he worked, Out he ate, good loyal husband and
all that. Stuff and maybe maybe if he had torn his,
bicep maybe he took a pain, pill or MAYBE i
was surprised that he was sitting at the. Bar i'd
never seen him sit at a bar, before, so you,
Know i'd never seen him act that. Way you know

(02:27:46):
that that rude and. Aggressive but anyway it, happened it was.
Funny it's down the road we.

Speaker 1 (02:27:53):
Go some wrestlers Like batista and all this have had
bad things to say about the Power, plan which you've involved.
In A lot of the guys said the Power plant
has no interest in training. Anybody they just want to
break guys. Down what do you feel about?

Speaker 2 (02:28:09):
That they couldn't have been talking about in the power
plant THAT i. Ran, YEAH i mean maybe maybe one
of the Because batista wasn't even around right WHEN i
was running the power, plant, right he hadn't even started
in the. BUSINESS i, mean the power plant has been
closed since two thousand and, one and as far as
we never the days of making people do a thousand

(02:28:31):
squats and push ups and beating them up and all.
That it's been over for a long long. Time so
all we did was try to teach psychology and how
to wrestle and try to give some people an insight
INTO i, MEAN i got EVERY tv show that was
ever done and would show it everybody's sit down the

(02:28:52):
next day and watch it on a monitor and pick
and show and, yeah that's that was.

Speaker 1 (02:28:57):
Good, NO i shouldn't have done that and.

Speaker 2 (02:28:59):
Everything SO i, mean, yes back WHEN i started and
a lot of other people, started you got Hul covin
first thirty seconds of his first, Workout hero broke his,
ankle spit on, him kicked. Him oh a big muscle,
Boy big muscle, boy think you're.

Speaker 1 (02:29:14):
Tough. HUH i want to be a.

Speaker 2 (02:29:15):
Wrestler when you, heal you'll come. Back he healed and
he went. Back hero taught he about a. Wrestle SO i, mean,
yes things were done in a very violent way years.
Ago maybe they're done in some place like that. NOW
i don't, know but that definitely wasn't happening as a power.

Speaker 1 (02:29:32):
Play were you there for The Ondorf Beta? FYTE i
had just.

Speaker 2 (02:29:37):
LEFT i just. LEFT i WAS i had been gone
about a. Month, Yeah i'd been gone about a. Month
then there was a. Bully you, know he was a
bully and thought again he was. Frustrated he always thought
he should be the world's. Champion he thought he was the.
Best he thought he was, This he thought he was.
That you, Know leon was could be a good, guy
that could be just crazier the shithouse. Too and WHEN

(02:30:01):
i heard what, HAPPENED i had to laugh Because paul.
Started paul would always wear flip flops in the dressing
room before he put his boots. On and it's lucky
For vader he was wearing flip flops because After paul
punched him and knocked his ass, out he started stomping.
Him but fortunately he just had flip flops on. Him
couldn't really hurt, him or he would. Have he would
have stomped him till he did brain. DAMAGE i, Mean,

(02:30:23):
Paul paul's another. BADASS i played. Football he was The brandon.
BULL i, MEAN i played football junior high, school high.
SCHOOL i was the guy that Wrestled paul warned off
when he came down for his first match when when
his friend of his father was on The sheriff's.

Speaker 1 (02:30:40):
Department paul AND i went to The university Of tampa.

Speaker 2 (02:30:43):
Together. Uh he was just an, awesome awesome athlete that
was hot headed and would fly off the handle and you,
KNOW i, mean so the wrestling business was perfect for.

Speaker 1 (02:30:55):
Him BUT i was the guy that wrestled him his
first his first. Trial.

Speaker 2 (02:31:00):
Yeah so but, yeah He's vader's very lucky That paul
had flip flops.

Speaker 1 (02:31:05):
On squeege flip. Flops we're covered it all And paul
hit him with.

Speaker 2 (02:31:13):
It With paul at that time had had the neck
after feet and basically had one. Arm, YEAH i mean
he had one arm was real, thin but he his
other one was enough to Beat.

Speaker 1 (02:31:23):
Vader you know what was the story with the uncensored
match Between Barry DAWs And Dustin. Rhoads there was a
were you there for? That there in the? Trailer yeah?
What there was all controversy over. That were you there for?

Speaker 2 (02:31:40):
That? YEAH i was.

Speaker 1 (02:31:40):
THERE i was the road. Agent what what the?

Speaker 2 (02:31:43):
Hell WHEN i got, THERE i looked at the area
that they were going to be wrestling in AND i, said, guys.

Speaker 1 (02:31:51):
This could be very.

Speaker 2 (02:31:52):
Dangerous there was jagged things and sharp things and bars
and stuff sticking, out and you got a truck driving
down the.

Speaker 1 (02:32:00):
Road and public highway the police didn't block cars or anything.
OFF i, MEAN i, said.

Speaker 2 (02:32:08):
This could be very this could be a very dangerous.
Situation we got going. Here and at that, time if
anybody got hit in the nose or got an eye
split or anything, DONE TVs wanted no blood ON. Tv
they would just shut the match. Off they didn't show any,

(02:32:28):
BLOOD i, mean and they had a. Helicopter they spent
a lot of money to do this match in the,
truck which was my. Idea and SO i get out,
There i'm, like, WOW i, said if, somebody if somebody
gets hurt and somebody starts, bleeding we've got all this

(02:32:49):
money in this.

Speaker 1 (02:32:50):
Deal they might just pull. It they might not use.

Speaker 2 (02:32:53):
It SO i, said try your, best under these crazy
as circumstances not to get punched in the nose or
punched in the, mouth or you, know try not to start,
bleeding BECAUSE i don't want them to waste their money
and have to can the. Match, well that didn't, happen And,

(02:33:16):
Bischoff bishoff Jerk, off BECAUSE i was the, agent called
me in the office and the day before my contract
had come.

Speaker 1 (02:33:28):
Up AND i went in his office and, says, Hey,
eric my contracts.

Speaker 2 (02:33:32):
Up you, know this is AFTER i gave him the
winning formula for how to save.

Speaker 1 (02:33:36):
It this is After i'd done all.

Speaker 2 (02:33:37):
That, well he didn't want me around because he didn't
want me to meet the other people and them to
find out that he was a dumb ass and THAT
i had given him.

Speaker 1 (02:33:45):
All the plans for. Success so WHEN i said to
THE tv.

Speaker 2 (02:33:51):
Engineer that was, there AND i don't remember his name,
NOW i, said what happens if somebody starts? BLEEDING i,
mean what are we gonna? Do and he, says, oh
we've discussed it in a meeting and, everything and he,
SAID i think it'll be.

Speaker 1 (02:34:04):
Okay so, okay long story, short they were.

Speaker 2 (02:34:09):
BLEEDING i get called in the office and there's SOME
tv guys sitting around AND i Told, ERIC i Said,
ERIC i told everybody to be as careful as they.
COULD i, said this is going to be a very dangerous.
Situation plenty of things to get hurt. ON i was
concerned if anybody bled that you would that you would
cut it off and not use, it and all the

(02:34:29):
money would have been spent for, nothing AND i didn't
want that to. Happen and he, said, well he, said he,
said just go home for a couple of, weeks let
the smoke blow over and everything will be all. Right
the day, before WHEN i went in and asked for my,
contract he, said, WELL i can't really give you a.
Contract put his hand, out he shook my, hand and he,
says ALL i can tell you as long As i've

(02:34:50):
got a job.

Speaker 1 (02:34:51):
Here you've got a job, Here you've done a good.
Job oh, gee thanks.

Speaker 2 (02:34:54):
Okay and then the next day we did the, video
and three weeks later you had the chicken shit called
me home and so, well and they used all the,
footage they didn't, edit they didn't waste any.

Speaker 1 (02:35:06):
Money they didn't do. Anything people are.

Speaker 2 (02:35:08):
Still talking about the match in the, truck you, know
and all that kind of. Stuff so he was wanting
to get rid of me to protect his own stupidity
around other. People And hogan always brought his. Entourage he
Had Jimmy, hart he Had Eddie, leslie he had three
or four guys that he.

Speaker 1 (02:35:28):
Always brought in with.

Speaker 2 (02:35:29):
Him So bischoff fired me to keep me from talking
to his bosses and to free up some money to
help pay for The hogan gang that was coming.

Speaker 1 (02:35:41):
In and it was just one of those things that's
that that's. That how difficult with the. Politics and oh
they were.

Speaker 2 (02:35:51):
OUTRAGEOUS i mean they were absolutely. Outrageous you couldn't say,
boo you. Couldn't we had a list of things that
for interviews you could say this on. Interview you can't
Say i'll whip your. Butt you can't say. This you
can't say. That you can't nobody if if you got
any blood in the mass that was canceled or just
quit or don't shoot, it you couldn't do.

Speaker 1 (02:36:11):
THIS i, mean it was just.

Speaker 2 (02:36:12):
Stupid about two three weeks before the truck, Thing bischoff
calls me and he, says you gotta come with. Me
we got a meeting with A hedge we're gonna. Do
we're going to The North. Tower the wrestling office was
in The South. Tower we had a meeting at The North.
TOWER i want you to come with. Me it's. Okay
so we go in this room and holy, shit there's

(02:36:33):
like ten. Guys when there's these graphs on the. Wall
starting in nineteen seventy, FOUR i want to say at
The Championship wrestling From atlanta started ON tbs seventy, four
seventy five somewhere in, there and it had the, months
and it had the, ratings the, years the, months the,

(02:36:55):
ratings and it goes around the thing some college educated.
Dumbass my dad always had a funny. Line he, said,
kid BECAUSE i.

Speaker 1 (02:37:02):
Went.

Speaker 2 (02:37:03):
Dad you, KNOW i just don't want to go to.
College i'm not a good. STUDENT i want to. WORK
i want to get out in the field and. WORK
i want to earn a. Living you, KNOW i don't
like school. Whatever and he, said, Well, mike you, know
college isn't for. Everyone he, said and always remember, this
if you send an idiot to, college you get a
college educated idiot.

Speaker 1 (02:37:19):
Back, So Ted turner was a great. Guy he was.

Speaker 2 (02:37:25):
Cool we had a couple of meetings and he was
just huge, balls would go out and tackle things that
shouldn't have, worked and he made him work and.

Speaker 1 (02:37:33):
Everything long story, short we're in this meeting.

Speaker 2 (02:37:35):
And all these guys that know nothing about the wrestling,
business nothing, whatsoever probably didn't even watch it ON.

Speaker 1 (02:37:43):
Tv but they're the one basically controlling our.

Speaker 2 (02:37:45):
Company if you graduated from, college you could get a
job With Ted. Turner so he had a bunch of
college educated idiots in this big office and they're, saying.

Speaker 1 (02:37:55):
Well, mike, go can you tell me why we're not doing.

Speaker 2 (02:37:57):
Though we're doing three point fives and fours over here
and back, there they're doing tens and elevens and this
and this and.

Speaker 1 (02:38:05):
This NOW i looked at them bishop sitting. THERE i
walked to the very. END i, said can anybody tell
me who.

Speaker 2 (02:38:13):
Owned championship wrestling From georgia from nineteen seventy four to
nineteen seventy seven or whatever the years? Were now all Went,
NO i Said Fred Ward Paul. Jones boom boom, boom,
boom boom. Boom they were all wrestling. People they had all,
Wrestled they all were wrestling, promoters they were doing the.

Speaker 1 (02:38:31):
TVs they knew what they were.

Speaker 2 (02:38:32):
Doing now from nineteen seventy eight to nineteen can you
tell me who wonned? Championship, NO i Said Jim, Barnett
Odie Anderson. BRISCOES i, said, again they're all wrestling. People
they're running a wrestling. Company they'd all been in there
rang before and that they're doing now in nineteen eighty,

(02:38:55):
nine can you tell me who owned the wrestling? Business?
NOW i looked at each other AND i, said didn't
we kind of buy? It and that's when the ratings
started going. Shit, NOW i, said didn't didn't we buy?
It didn't didn't that one turn or bought wrestling or?
WHATEVER i. SAID, thingo you're exactly, CORRECT i, said in

(02:39:16):
you people don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:39:17):
Anything about the wrestling.

Speaker 2 (02:39:19):
Business your own, graph your own, chart tells you exactly
why we are, failing because you set the rules FOR
us wrestling people to live by and you don't know
what you're.

Speaker 1 (02:39:31):
Doing bischoff was going to jump right straight out of his.

Speaker 2 (02:39:35):
Chair he was like, LOOKING i, like don't say. Anything
don't say. ANYTHING i, Went i'm not gonna take the
heat for. Anything we can't do. Anything we can't do,
interviews we can't nobody can do. Nothing you can't anything at.
All that.

Speaker 1 (02:39:50):
Happened we had human resources at EVERY tv that we
had to give THE tv to the human resource guy
and have him read it and okay.

Speaker 2 (02:39:58):
It that there was nothing that was sexually, Explicit there
was nothing that was. Violent nobody was gonna say anything
that might offended. Anybody you couldn't say, black you couldn't say,
blue you couldn't say.

Speaker 1 (02:40:08):
Green you can't say, this you can't say.

Speaker 2 (02:40:10):
THAT i, Went, jesus, guys you could Take Mark spitz
and telling him to swim across the swimming.

Speaker 1 (02:40:16):
Pool but if you put one hundred pound anchor around his,
neck he can't.

Speaker 2 (02:40:20):
Swim so WHEN i told, everybody the heads of all the,
companies that they needed to keep their nose out of our,
business that didn't go over real.

Speaker 1 (02:40:29):
Well so, yeah hola Nesh king but mook Ass.

Speaker 2 (02:40:39):
Oh, well they they were popular and big and successful
and everything In New. York they, came they came to
W cw AND i was gone at that time when
they when they got, there because they came After hogan was,
there and basically it looked like THE wwe had come
down and taken.

Speaker 1 (02:40:58):
Over w C.

Speaker 2 (02:40:58):
W there was a three biggest stars from THE wwe
are now ON, Wcwtv so new world order.

Speaker 1 (02:41:07):
EVERYTHING i, mean it was.

Speaker 2 (02:41:08):
New it was, exciting but they were SEEING wwwcw on
the SAME tv.

Speaker 1 (02:41:12):
Show but.

Speaker 2 (02:41:17):
Wrestling fans know a lot of people have demons and.
Issues And Scott hall started his wrestling here in my.
OFFICE i mean he was From. Orlando i've known him
from day.

Speaker 12 (02:41:28):
One, god IF i got to pick one guy that
had a, big natural body that could, move that was,
graceful that was, muscular that just had.

Speaker 2 (02:41:41):
Everything going for. Him it had Been Scott. Hall he
had it, all he had all the. Tools and he
reminded me of a story last, night said night and
yes you looked at me and, Said, jesus IF i
could just put my brain in your, BODY i could
make a million. Dollars and he, Said i'll split it with.
YOU i said a little more complicated than, that BUT

(02:42:02):
i wasn't. There SO i imagine there Was scott being the.
Nutty he's very cut and dry to the, Point i'm
sure he was saying things that people didn't want to.
Hear nash getting more and more involved in the office
and that kind of. Stuff AND i, Say nash is
always thinking about. Himself he wants to keep himself, good
he wants to keep himself, over he wants to keep himself.

Speaker 1 (02:42:24):
In the power.

Speaker 2 (02:42:24):
Seat there's nothing wrong with. THAT i, mean you know
you can do. It and the company is successful and
it's making money and all. That so just a lot
Of Kain. Hogan you, Know terry's always been in control
of his. Destiny and so you had a lot of
power people struggling in a company that was already. Struggling
so the guys at The North tower telling the guys

(02:42:47):
in The South tower what they need.

Speaker 1 (02:42:48):
To do and how they need to do, it and they.

Speaker 2 (02:42:50):
Didn't so just it all just started crumbling and collapsing
from all, sides from the wrestlers to the, office to
the thievery you to just.

Speaker 1 (02:43:01):
Everything it just all fell. Apart SO i guess it
sounds like you were very surprised when they went out of.
BUSINESS i wasn't shocked at a state in. BUSINESS i
couldn't believe.

Speaker 2 (02:43:12):
That i've Been, wow they must have a lot of,
money BECAUSE i sure waste enough of.

Speaker 1 (02:43:16):
It, wow that's, crazy, Right, YEAH i just had no,
clue none of that any. CLUE i don't want to
run a wrestling.

Speaker 2 (02:43:22):
Company.

Speaker 1 (02:43:23):
There there's a story told many times that you threatened
to Slash crisp And wise's throat and he used that
as an excuse to have his. Contract do you have.

Speaker 2 (02:43:33):
Ever heard that?

Speaker 1 (02:43:34):
Before, Oh i've heard. It what are your? Thoughts this
is not A pg show with DOING i don't worry about.

Speaker 2 (02:43:42):
It, well it's public knowledge that That Ben waugh started
having an affair With Nancy kevin's, Wife kevin wand.

Speaker 1 (02:43:52):
Being the ring wrestling And Ben wall would have her.

Speaker 2 (02:43:54):
Out being romance and her and all that kind of.
Stuff absolutely Insulted kevin in the worst way you could
insult someone by doing something like that in the. Workplace you,
know everybody else, knew you, know and pride and. Everything
he Ben wah did about as bad as situation And

(02:44:14):
nancy as you could have as you could. Do okay
with that being Said kevin when he found out about.
It never went and beat Ben.

Speaker 1 (02:44:25):
Wah never never did.

Speaker 2 (02:44:28):
Nothing he left him. Alone AND i Asked, kevin Because
Kevin kevin, Violent he's. Violent he, Said, kevin how'd you
how'd you get?

Speaker 1 (02:44:34):
Over you? KNOW i, Mean, GOD i got.

Speaker 2 (02:44:38):
NUTS i don't know IF i could have handled it or.
Not and he, Said, MIKE i lost my. WIFE i
lost my brand new home On Daytona. BEACH i lost
almost all my. MONEY i didn't.

Speaker 1 (02:44:47):
Want to lose my. Job IF i said boo To Chris,
Binlah i'd lose my. Job AND i.

Speaker 2 (02:44:53):
Didn't that's ALL i had. Left IF i would have done,
that she would have beat. Me i'd lost. Everything that makes,
SENSE i get. It so he never Bothered crispin while
he never did. Nothing nancy is a shit disturbing. Bitch
she had a real dark evil side that did unless

(02:45:15):
you knew the, family you didn't know.

Speaker 1 (02:45:16):
Existed so she was Stirring chris up all the.

Speaker 2 (02:45:21):
Time kevin's gonna get, you you, know he's not just
he's not the kind of guy to let you do.
This You so every time you'd go, Home nancy was
gaming and yanging and, yapping yap and, yap keptn Keeping
chris wired. Up When Kevin sullivan got the booking, JOB
i called him the band of. Midgets, Benoir Dean, Malenko Perry,

(02:45:42):
Saturn eddie H Eddie. Guerrero they all went to our.
Boss Oh dak.

Speaker 1 (02:45:51):
Was ANOTHER tv, bill nice, guy he was on. Accountant
how they thought he could run? Wrestling he was the
accountant FOR.

Speaker 2 (02:45:57):
Wcw how you gonna run rust as an? Accountant that
he was a nice. Guy he, tried he was, applied
he was. Nice they go.

Speaker 1 (02:46:04):
To him and, say we can't trust our careers in
the hands Of Kevin. Sullivan and Because.

Speaker 2 (02:46:15):
Mike graham is his friend and a road, agent we
Want kevin fired and we Want mike fired just Because
so the Guy Bill, Bush Bill bush was his. Name
So billy, says, well and he, said either fire, him
or we're going To New. York So bill, said, WELL.

Speaker 1 (02:46:40):
I will talking to, you trying top you out of.
This do you do any? Good, no they got to
be fired or we're.

Speaker 2 (02:46:47):
Leaving bill, SAID i guess you're gonna be leaving, then
BECAUSE i won't be.

Speaker 1 (02:46:52):
Threatened And i'm not going to fire someone for no.
Reason he, SAID i can't fire.

Speaker 2 (02:46:56):
Him what have they? Done they haven't done. Anything can't
just fire somebody for the heck of firing. Him So
bill comes and.

Speaker 1 (02:47:02):
Tells me And, kevin and we were In cincinnati And, Cincinnati, ohio.

Speaker 2 (02:47:12):
AND i was just and so he comes and tells
us that they want us fired just because they can't
Trust kevin because of his relationship With nancy and he
never got back at Ben Wah and then because he
was the, booker he was going to ruin his career
do all stupid It's kevin had nothing but respect for
Ben wan in the. Ring, well he didn't agree with

(02:47:35):
what he had done, personally but as far as in the,
ring he was good and it was no. Problem SO.

Speaker 1 (02:47:44):
I was.

Speaker 2 (02:47:45):
Livid SO i walked out of the dressing room AND
i Found benoa in the dressing.

Speaker 1 (02:47:52):
ROOM i, said you come with. Me we gotta have a.

Speaker 2 (02:47:56):
TALK i walked him out in the middle of the
arena or nobody else was, around AND i, SAID i
just had to talk With Bill. BUSH i, Said kevin
has done nothing ever but compliments your work and say
what a great guy you are in the, ring AND
i want to give you a, push and thinks you

(02:48:19):
know that you could make money.

Speaker 1 (02:48:20):
And all that kind of.

Speaker 2 (02:48:21):
STUFF i said, ME i don't think you'll draw a,
dime But kevin does. Me if you'd have taken my
wife and my money and humiliated me in the workplace
in front of all my, friends and if you'd have
done to me what you did To Kevin, SULLIVAN i,

(02:48:41):
SAID i beat your ass every TIME i saw, you every,
day every TIME i saw you'd get an ass with.
It if you'd have done that to, me BECAUSE i
said it was, wrong you shouldn't have done.

Speaker 1 (02:48:53):
It it was. Wrong AND i, said.

Speaker 2 (02:48:55):
But now you're trying to take my job because As
I'm kevin's. Friend you didn't bang my old, lady you
didn't embarrass, me you didn't do anything to. Me But
I'm kevin's. Friend you want me to get. Fired that
takes food and money from my family, now and you're

(02:49:16):
doing it just because you're. SPITEFUL i, said if you
mess with, Me i'll cut your head. Off i'll put
it on a stick in your front, Yard, saul the
neighborhood kids can come to the rocks at. IT i,
Said i'm Not Kevin. SULLIVAN i don't care about losing my.
JOB i don't care about anything. Else if you mess
with my, LIVELIHOOD i will come get. You. Now you

(02:49:41):
take that back and figure it. Out and he looked at,
ME jj AND i was talking about that this. Morning
he runs back to the. Back an hour, LATER jj
comes and gets. Me he, says, Oh, mike did YOU
i can't. Believe and he was kind of laughing and,
SAID i know you did.

Speaker 1 (02:50:00):
It i'm not even going to.

Speaker 2 (02:50:01):
Ask you if you did. IT i know you. DID i,
said you KNOW i did? WHAT JJ i just got
a call from human resources and walk hold him and
said that he had to leave here immediately because you
threatened his. LIFE i just looked AT jj INK i.
SMILED i, said you, know that's a bunch of, Crap,
JAMES i, said DID i SAY i would beat him

(02:50:22):
up if he had taken my? Wife and he humiliated
me like he Did. Kevin, yeah so he's trying to
take my, job so of course he's going to talk
trash about.

Speaker 1 (02:50:31):
Me but DID i SAY i was going to kill?

Speaker 2 (02:50:33):
Him? NO i never said. That so he, said, well
you got to call the lady at the human. Resources
SO i had to get on the. PHONE i had
to call. Her i'd explain everything to. Her in, meantime
they all, left AND i looked at it as we
saved the. Company their salaries combined was almost three million
dollars and they never drew a. DIME i got the

(02:50:54):
minute to minute reports from all the. TVs people were
changing the station when they were coming. On never drew a.

Speaker 1 (02:51:01):
Dime SO i kind of laughed when they.

Speaker 2 (02:51:05):
LAUGHED i didn't.

Speaker 1 (02:51:06):
Care Mike, Graham, mike we're going to continue On Chris
benoir horrible track you happened to? Son, yeah, everybody it
was a horrible. Tragedy. Period did you knowing him and
see how he? Was did you see this kind of
him in this head or or coming?

Speaker 2 (02:51:27):
On? NOW i hadn't been Around chris since he went
To New, york BUT i MEAN i Watched nancy grow,
up his. Wife she sat on the front row Of
orlando for years and years when she was a little
girl with her. Mother then she got married and then
there was her and her husband and the, mother and you,
know When kevin first started going out with, her AND
i knew her from day, one and she she, had

(02:51:49):
like a lot of people. Do i'm not picking on,
anybody but she had a pretty dark evil side to.
Her and she Stabbed kevin in the, chest tried to
stab him in the chest with a butcher. Knife when
they were, married cops came and arrested. Her kevin went
and got her out of jail and comes.

Speaker 1 (02:52:03):
From what are you? Doing he, said she's my. WIFE
i can't have her arrested in.

Speaker 2 (02:52:06):
JAIL i, said, well you could have been in the
morgue right, now because if you wouldn't have got your arm,
up it would have been more than the tip of
the knife going in your. Chest it would be you'd been.
Stabbed so in any, relationship any husband and, wife any
guy and, girlfriend, anything emotions and life and stress and

(02:52:29):
just things can get. Crazy will she like someone That i'd,
known knew how to really piss a man. Off and
she liked pushing those, buttons you, know she liked pushing the,
buttons she.

Speaker 1 (02:52:42):
Liked making someone. Angry so it's all anybody can do is.

Speaker 2 (02:52:49):
Guess you know.

Speaker 1 (02:52:50):
Nobody the people that know what happened are all.

Speaker 2 (02:52:52):
Dead BUT i don't See chris as a. MURDERER i mean,
intentional like a premeditated. Thing other than AND i think
it sucks because he did what he did to his little.
Boy you never heard, anybody he never did. Anything he
didn't deserve what he. Got and in being, married relationships

(02:53:19):
and that kind of, THING i think Probably chris got
got in an argument and maybe Pushed nancy or did
something she get her head OR i THINK i think
IF i have to guess at, it and that's all
we can do is. Guess you ask my.

Speaker 1 (02:53:34):
OPINION i think she accidentally. DIED i don't think he.

Speaker 2 (02:53:38):
Meant to kill. Her but once she was, dead now
in sets the, heartbeat the oh my, god you Know
i'm going to go to.

Speaker 1 (02:53:50):
Prison i've killed my. Wife what AM i gonna do?

Speaker 2 (02:53:53):
This because it took him a day to think about,
this so it wasn't an instantaneous thing going off in his.

Speaker 1 (02:53:59):
Head AND i AND.

Speaker 2 (02:54:01):
I don't, know BUT i have heard that the little
boy test text message one of his friends saying that
his mommy was in the room next door. Dead, Really oh,
SO i think In chris's confusion in the HIS i
couldn't even imagine what was going through his mind at

(02:54:22):
that at that, point you, know BUT i think he,
thought who's going to take care of my? Boy you,
know who's is he going to go To Foster home or?

Speaker 1 (02:54:32):
What you?

Speaker 2 (02:54:32):
KNOW i just don't, know but to think and then
do the thing with the little boy the next, day
and then. Himself he thought about it and planned that
part of. It BUT i think it all started as an.
ACCIDENT i think it all didn't got way way blown
out of. HAND i don't really Think chris was an

(02:54:55):
intentionally evil. Person you, KNOW i called him. Out he
wouldn't fin you, know somebody that's gonna intentionally kill. SOMEBODY
i think if you pushed him hard enough and seat
enough to him that they had come out and, fight,
well he. Wouldn't he wouldn't. Fight so it's a horrible
it's a horrible, incident and it's too. Bad the little

(02:55:19):
boy had to you, know had to be, there and,
uh you, know he never had a. Chance he never
heard anybody he didn't do, anything you, know that's the.

Speaker 1 (02:55:27):
The outcome of it.

Speaker 2 (02:55:28):
IS i think is just really sucks that the little
boy had to be, involved you. Know BUT i don't
Think chris was a. MURDERER i don't think he did
anything intentionally other than killed the little. Boy he meant
to do, that and he meant to kill. HIMSELF i
think it all started as an. Accident they just got really,
nasty and it's too. Bad they were, young they had

(02:55:48):
their whole lives ahead of, him you, know and crazy things.

Speaker 1 (02:55:52):
Happened and we started we started off today talking about the,
business and we've been in a long duldrum of the dock.
Side IF i WHEN i say with all it's going
wrong And Eric kirkoff and you know your dad and
now this, Crap i'm going to get back. To let's
get back to close up this thing with more about. Wrestling,
okay we finish. Up you have a great mind for the.
Business so that's where we. Go do you think another

(02:56:15):
company could work now BESIDES tna AND? Wwe the main
problem with trying.

Speaker 2 (02:56:27):
To get another company is no different Than, walmart is
no different than The Hyatta, hotel is no different than.
Anything Employees where are you going to get another one,
hundred one hundred and fifty wrestlers that can go ON

(02:56:47):
tv and compel people to come and watch your Rest
they're all.

Speaker 1 (02:56:52):
Gone you.

Speaker 2 (02:56:53):
Know you take half a dozen guys AT wwe that
that are obviously, compelling they have a good, business they're making,
money they're, successful everything's going.

Speaker 1 (02:57:04):
On, well where are you going to get the next
group of those?

Speaker 2 (02:57:08):
Guys if you don't to get, started you've got to
get started.

Speaker 1 (02:57:12):
Somehow so you'd have to try to.

Speaker 2 (02:57:13):
Steal something FROM, tna or steal some guys FROM, wwe
or you couldn't just create stars that are good enough
to go on television and do the job they need to.

Speaker 1 (02:57:30):
Do so, again talent and.

Speaker 2 (02:57:36):
Employees wrestling business is no different than the car business
or any grocery store or anything. Else employees have always
been a, problem and management and employee conflict and, struggle,
cost gas, prices television Costs now to produce A tv,
show insurance has gone.

Speaker 1 (02:57:53):
Crazy it would be.

Speaker 2 (02:57:55):
Hard i'm not saying it would be, impossible But i'm
just saying to do it a national level LIKE, wwe
LIKE t AND a is it would be very difficult
to do television would cost you a, fortune a, fortune
so you'd have to have somebody with, really really deep.
Pockets you'd have to probably have a wrestling, school a,

(02:58:20):
territory not a. School you can teach a monkey how
to jump off the top. Rope how many times have
you been to see The ringling Brother, circus once or twice,
Maybe and they got the best, jugglers the best, acrobatics
the best guys in the.

Speaker 1 (02:58:33):
World you just don't. Go you see it one, time you're.

Speaker 2 (02:58:35):
Done so you'd have to have a territory for a
year and get people out in public and get them
in front of a crowd and try to stimulate their
mental computer and talk to them and coach them and.

Speaker 1 (02:58:51):
Mentor them and do.

Speaker 2 (02:58:53):
Everything before you could ever think about opening a wrestling
company because there just didn't enough. Guy there isn't any
talent out there that's not already tied. Up if they're out,
there they they're under. Contract they're not floating around looking
for a. Job yeah are they? Are they? Are they're worn.
Out they've been seen for three years ON, wwe they've
been seeing for four years OF, tna or they're just

(02:59:16):
everything has a shelf life and the talent that's out
there has no more shelf life or they've never been
on the shelf to start, with and they need to.
Learn but to start a company like, that you'd be
it'd be very.

Speaker 1 (02:59:30):
Difficult how come you haven't worked WITH tna?

Speaker 2 (02:59:34):
Yet oh, GOSH i, MEAN i know The jarretts and
and you, know my dad would go To tennessee And
Jerry jarrett the you Know jeff's, Dad they were very good.

Speaker 1 (02:59:45):
FRIENDS i used to work For jarrett some In, tennessee
and you, know they they seem to run everything and do.
Everything AND i haven't been looking for a. JOB i
guess they've been looking for. Anybody SO i try to
attempt to help.

Speaker 2 (02:59:58):
Them SO i went by a couple of times When
dusty was, there just to say, hi you, know and
talk to some old buds and stuff like. That but you,
Know I'm i'm very, happy very content living life and
doing What i'm. DOING i don't need a, job and
the responsibility is. Huge you've got a lot of people
looking up to you to earn them a, living to

(03:00:20):
be the, creator to find and help and you, know just.

Speaker 1 (03:00:25):
They never needed me AND i never needed. Them, okay
what's on? Vice Vince russo's. BOOKING i think we already
went through. That he was an. Idiot have you seen
anything IN?

Speaker 2 (03:00:35):
Tna don't, know, NO i, know unless he learned something
when he was at W.

Speaker 1 (03:00:41):
Cw he, SUCKED i swear to this. Day then sent him.

Speaker 2 (03:00:47):
The W cw to put it out of, business to
help put it out of, business because he was so
stupid that he just couldn't do anything. Right, now maybe he.
LEARNED i mean that was two, thousand two, thousand two
thousand and, one SO i mean it was seven years,
Ago so maybe he's, learned maybe he's.

Speaker 1 (03:01:06):
Changed maybe me and.

Speaker 2 (03:01:07):
And Jerry jarrett was brilliant, Booker jerry And memphis and,
everything huge. Money there's still they still got LOCAL. TV i,
mean that's a territory that survived through it. All they're still.
There that Was Jerry, jarrett you, know he. Was he's
very sharp and knows his. Stuff So vince might have
gotten that ego crap out of his head and finally
sat down and.

Speaker 1 (03:01:28):
Learned or If jarrett.

Speaker 2 (03:01:29):
Is in, control WHICH i believe he, is then when
he listens To vince's, ideas Is vince Booking vince or
so Book you?

Speaker 1 (03:01:36):
Know oh he's Had.

Speaker 2 (03:01:37):
Booker, okay well then maybe maybe they weren't good. Together And,
vince but when he was at w C, w he
wasn't gonna listen to. Anybody he didn't want anybody's. Input
he thought.

Speaker 1 (03:01:46):
We were all, stupid so and he thought we were.
Stupid we thought he was. Stupid so it's a. Standoff
there we. Go how important is it you For vince
mcman to recognize your?

Speaker 2 (03:01:58):
Father oh my, god that Was that was like the
coup de. Gras that was so. Cool WHEN i got
that phone, CALL i was almost in. Shock you, know
you got to be kidding.

Speaker 1 (03:02:09):
ME i.

Speaker 2 (03:02:10):
Was he wrestled during the, fifties you, know fifty, nine,
sixties and it was just it in my, career you might,
say to be part of a production and.

Speaker 1 (03:02:24):
Just to see how.

Speaker 2 (03:02:25):
The wrestling business is today from the inside, out and
to Have vince McMahon think and know that my father
was one of the true founders and creators and formers
of the wrestling industry of, today it was really.

Speaker 1 (03:02:44):
Awesome you, KNOW i, SAY i was in. SHOCK i
was like a little.

Speaker 2 (03:02:48):
Kid in a candy store when they, called you, know
and they, said would you accept the.

Speaker 1 (03:02:52):
Award, yeah when what DO i gotta? Do you? Know
DO i need to pay you? This you?

Speaker 2 (03:02:57):
Know?

Speaker 1 (03:02:58):
Yeah, whatever it was like.

Speaker 2 (03:03:00):
The final stage of my dad's.

Speaker 1 (03:03:05):
Career he just was up stairs watching.

Speaker 2 (03:03:09):
It he wasn't.

Speaker 1 (03:03:10):
Here is it true that you got one million dollars
for The florida? Tape? Lovery you'd have to ask my?

Speaker 2 (03:03:19):
Account hold, on CAN i call him?

Speaker 1 (03:03:28):
Enough you'd have to Ask. Mike can't see? What, yeah
you have to ask my. Account, YEAH i don't, know all.

Speaker 2 (03:03:37):
Right thoughts On vince, McMahon you, Know vince has pissed
a lot of people off because he broke.

Speaker 1 (03:03:46):
Stride he did, Things so Did Sam.

Speaker 2 (03:03:49):
Walton so did people in every, big huge company today
just do things. Differently if they played football in a
dirt field with cheerleaders and no big fancy stadiums and,
everything it wouldn't be, football you.

Speaker 1 (03:04:05):
Know So vince took.

Speaker 2 (03:04:08):
Thirty forty years of wrestling and knowledge and fan base
and everything else and just changed, it changed it to
a different.

Speaker 1 (03:04:19):
Situation did he put a lot of people out of? Business?
Absolutely you, KNOW i, mean Does walmart put a lot
of people out of?

Speaker 2 (03:04:26):
Business?

Speaker 1 (03:04:27):
Absolutely bottom line has Succeed we're all here trying to.

Speaker 2 (03:04:31):
Succeed we all don't really get concerned with who gets
buried in the who gets out running the, race or who.
Whatever we're all very competitive and we all want to
be the. Best And vince has shown that he is
a very smart. Businessman he's not afraid to get out

(03:04:53):
and scrap and lay his nuts on the line for
something that he believes. In he's been extremely polite and
nice to, myself for my family and you, know my
dad and. Everything he's been very good to you, Know
Burry windom and different people that have had medical issues
that he that he helped. Hugely so he's got a good.

(03:05:14):
Heart he's a business great business, guy and he's been very.
Successful and what could you? SAY i, mean that's that's the,
fact that's who it. Is, yes did he help Put.

Speaker 1 (03:05:24):
Championship wrestling From florida out of?

Speaker 2 (03:05:25):
Business? Correct did he help bankrupt all the other wrestling
companies In?

Speaker 1 (03:05:29):
America?

Speaker 2 (03:05:30):
Correct how many mom and pop grocery stores and hardware
stores did home? Depot how many hardware stores did he
they put out of? Business? No so that's just either
you either you keep up the pace you set out
and run, harder or you get left. Behind that's just
the way it is in. Anything what is the problem

(03:05:52):
with the business? Today what isn't the? Problem you, know
the problem with the isn't? It, well the problem with
the business today is there really isn't any. Business the
business the way it is run today is being very.
Successful so, yeah in the eyes of an old, timer

(03:06:13):
you could, say, oh the problem with business today is
there's not a territory In texas And georgia and In
california And louisiana and this and this and this and.

Speaker 1 (03:06:22):
This but who's to say those territories would still be here?

Speaker 2 (03:06:26):
Anyway so problem with the business, TODAY i, mean you've
got you've got a lot of vinces surrounded himself with
a lot of talented. Guys Ricky, Steamboat Arn, Anderson Very,
windham you, Know Mike, Rotundo Michael. Hayes he's he has
taken a nucleus of guys that know a lot about

(03:06:48):
the wrestling business and is working with them two take
what he, believes what believes and put.

Speaker 1 (03:07:02):
It in a wrestling kind of content to merge the two.
Together and he's doing a very good job about.

Speaker 2 (03:07:08):
It you.

Speaker 1 (03:07:10):
Know that's so you really it ain't broken.

Speaker 2 (03:07:12):
If the, wheel if the, car if it ain't, broken
don't fix. It in his, world it ain't broken by
any stretch of the.

Speaker 1 (03:07:20):
Imagination what do you think is lacking any independent wrestlers
and indie wrestling? TODAY i really haven't been to any independent.

Speaker 2 (03:07:28):
SHOWS a lot of people because of the, allure because
of the magic of professional, wrestling because of.

Speaker 1 (03:07:47):
The wanting to do it or.

Speaker 2 (03:07:50):
SOMETHING i think there are a lot of young kids
that we're one hundred and ten, pounds that will never
have any chance of being a, wrestler that don't look
like a, wrestler don't talk like a, wrestler don't know
how to, wrestle have nothing, going and they're wearing blue
jeans and sneakers or, whatever and they're jumping off the

(03:08:10):
top turn buckle and they're just doing stupid. Things and wrestling,
FANS i, think go maybe to some independent shows and
they see a lot of these people that just have
no chance or no idea about what they're. Doing and
when you went to a wrestling show twenty five years,
ago everybody that went to the ring In, florida everybody

(03:08:31):
looked like a. Professional they all had their, tights their,
boots they were in, shape they, trained they, tan they
there was no kids wearing hat sideways and blue jeans
on and that looked like they could just walk in
off the street and got in the. Ring be, like
do you think the attendants would go down in football

(03:08:52):
stadiums if they let everybody wear you, know if they
wanted to put A t shirt over their shoulder pads
and maybe wear a number or you, know we're sneakers
instead of, boots and don't wear a helmet where you
know where your necklaces and you, know they IT'S i
think it's lost a lot of its professional intimacy because

(03:09:13):
a lot of people in the independent circuit are, trying
but they just don't kind of know what to, do you.
Know SO i would say professionalism is probably the main
thing that hurts the independent. Shows and no no, teachers no,
Coaches and if you put one guy that doesn't know
anything against another guy that doesn't know, anything when the

(03:09:35):
match is, over there could come out and neither one
of them learn. Nothing so nobody's gonna get any. Better
you've got to you've got to, wrestle you've got to
be able to, see you've got to be able to
understand and have somebody talk to you that knows about
the wrestling business to explain, why, how, when, where And without,

(03:09:58):
that you're just going to fumble around and do three
backflips and fall through the.

Speaker 1 (03:10:02):
Table you ain't gonna do. Nothing that's that in your.
Career we're gonna, End we're gonna finish this up now
with basically all about you and things like. That in your,
career who did you find that was overrated and? Underrated
overrated and?

Speaker 2 (03:10:23):
UNDERRATED i would Say Lex luger was probably the most
overrated guy that made more, money that did everything for
somebody that really didn't have much. Talent and, uh Probably
Barry wendom underrated, because LIKE i, said WHEN i was
at WHEN i did THE TVs AT, WCW i used

(03:10:45):
to get the minute by minute. RATINGS i knew who
the fans at home were. WATCHING i knew when they
were going to get a beer out of a refrigerator
or a cup of coffee or, candy or spank the
kid or. Whatever and every Time Barry wendhom cave ON,
tv the ratings had a little. Spike they just. Did

(03:11:06):
every Time booker t came in ON, tv the ratings.
Dropped every time The band of The midgets came ON,
tv the ratings dropped the Mid when The mexicans came ON,
tv the ratings. Drops, goldbert they did, Good, hogan they were,
Huge Berry, wyndham they were. Huge different guys in different,
positions but across the, BOARD i Think Barry wyndham was

(03:11:30):
probably the most. Underrated For Barry winndom never to be
The world's champion was.

Speaker 1 (03:11:33):
Insane. Insane, okay that's a QUESTION i had. Personally why
was he having never A WW orw have you a
champion OF? W barry was Just Therer's. Berry berry is,
CRAZY i mean not Crazy.

Speaker 2 (03:11:47):
Berry you know the he sometime like to disappear for
a day or two at a time and and go
out hunting or fishing or he never took the business
was so easy to, him and it came so.

Speaker 1 (03:12:00):
Natural Did he.

Speaker 2 (03:12:02):
Never really looked at it as. Work it was always,
play you. Know so if he was playing at work
and having a good time and making, money.

Speaker 1 (03:12:11):
Then if he wanted to take a couple of days
and take his family and go, someplace he just did.
It so it was.

Speaker 2 (03:12:18):
He just AND i don't think the promoters. REALIZE i,
know AT. Wcw Eric bischoff never looked at a television.
Rating that THE tv, people they looked at the at
the five minute, stuff you know WHAT i, mean or
the quarterly. Ratings but they never got a minute to
minute sheet and sat down with a run sheet and

(03:12:42):
the minute to minute report and looked at the names
and looked to see and they had all that available to,
him and they never used. IT i, went holy, smokes
this is so. Easy and you just write a little. Thing,
yeah rating came, up rating went, down writing came. Up
and you do that for a. Month doesn't take a

(03:13:02):
genius to book the. Thing you get four weeks in a,
row somebody who's rating came, Up you.

Speaker 1 (03:13:07):
Put them ON. Tv you're, reading don't come. Up you're
out of.

Speaker 2 (03:13:10):
Here but nobody ever looked at any of. That they
just kept writing down names and paying paychecks and just
kept going. On the well was too. Deep they never
figured they'd run out of.

Speaker 10 (03:13:26):
Money well when when When turner Sold turner sold a
bunch of the assets OF tbfs To microsoft.

Speaker 2 (03:13:37):
Or one of the big computer, companies and the computer
company wanted no. Sports they didn't want, baseball they didn't want.
Wrestling they didn't want, basketball they didn't want. Nothing they
were into, sports they were into computers in THE tv,
business but they didn't want to put up with any
aggravation from many. Athletes so that combined With dishoff's, theft

(03:13:58):
total confusion and everything else going, on was the ultimate.

Speaker 1 (03:14:03):
DOWNFALL a lot of, things a lot of things bankrupted that.
Company do you enjoy the nostalgia? Shows you?

Speaker 2 (03:14:14):
Do, yeah it's. Fun. YEAH i enjoy going and seeing
and talking to guys like Seeing Michael hayes AND jj
And kevin and you, know people THAT i wrote up
and down the road, WITH i fought with in the.
RING i did everything to kind of hear what the
fans are saying, today you, know about who they like
and what they like and.

Speaker 1 (03:14:34):
What's going on in their life and all that kind of,
stuff and you, know due one or two. Years kind of,
fun you, know kind of gets me out.

Speaker 2 (03:14:41):
Of the house and it kind of keeps me in
touch with different, people and it's very polite and everyone's
always very, nice and it's.

Speaker 1 (03:14:49):
GOOD i enjoyed doing them WHAT i want to do
on every. Day, no but you, know a few years
Good who is your who is your Most who's your
favorite and least favorite.

Speaker 5 (03:14:57):
POINTS i, said down one, Time i've had like eighteen,
thousand nine hundred and sixty two matches or.

Speaker 1 (03:15:08):
SOMETHING i, mean that's a favorite. Opponent and.

Speaker 2 (03:15:13):
That's such a hard question BECAUSE i had a ton
of fun and a lot of great matches with a
lot of great, guys you, know From sullivan To Ray
stevens To Nick backwinkle To Rick, Flair, Harley Terry. Funk
everyone had a different a different, thing you, know and
it was great working with all of. Them as far

(03:15:37):
as least, Favorite Angelo mosca was just a, big, stiff clumsy.
Guy he would and he got an attitude in the
ring and he would just sometimes do things that didn't
make any.

Speaker 1 (03:15:51):
Send it's a big nasty you.

Speaker 2 (03:15:53):
KNOW i, mean but you Know angelo was bruis Of Rody.
Rody sucker punched. You he'd try to hurt. You he'd
drive a knee in your back or do something when
you was sitting. Down you, KNOW i didn't like because
you always had to be and he was big something
bitch and in shape, too you. KNOW i MEAN i
went through my career two hundred. Pounds you, know if

(03:16:13):
he'd have been my, size he'd been working at a
car wash. Somewhere the only reason a lot of those
guys made it through Was god's gift of. SIZE i,
NEVER i wasn't gifted with, size SO i had to
use my brain and intelligence and everything else to get.
Through So mosca was could be very, difficult AND i
didn't look forward to going BECAUSE i KNEW i wasn't

(03:16:34):
going to have a good. Match And brody was was.
DIFFICULT i knew he'd try to hurt you if he
got a.

Speaker 1 (03:16:40):
Chance you, Know god.

Speaker 2 (03:16:41):
Blessing he didn't deserve what he, got but, uh he.
Was he was, awkward you. KNOW i don't. KNOW i
JUST i enjoyed the. BUSINESS i enjoyed my. LIFE i
enjoyed every NIGHT i went to the. Ring never really
never really sat down, said Oh, GOD i don't want
TO i don't want to wrestle this. Guy you, KNOW
i don't want to do. This that just. NEVER i

(03:17:03):
always found a way to have a good match and
have fun with, it you, know and didn't didn't, worry
didn't think about the, negatives just.

Speaker 1 (03:17:11):
Positives Is, Derek and you do you watch it? All you,
know beastly now not.

Speaker 2 (03:17:16):
Really occasionally If i'm channel surfing BETWEEN tv shows or.
WHATEVER i might watch a segment or a part of
a match or something like, that but to sit down
and watch a whole, Show, NO i. HAVEN'T i haven't done.

Speaker 13 (03:17:27):
That so you don't even know if anybody has the
it we talked about. Earlier, Oh John, CENA i mean
he's done very. Good you, know he's he's he's kicked
it In batista looks good, athlete can.

Speaker 2 (03:17:45):
Interview, YEAH i mean there's some guys That i've seen
that that that have, it that that people like or
people dislike that that seem to have done really. Well
Kurt Angle he And Jack briscoe are probably the two
best amateur wrestlers turn pro in.

Speaker 1 (03:18:04):
History And kurt was.

Speaker 2 (03:18:06):
Probably a better interviewer Than. Jack jack was never a great.
Talker kurt could. Talk jack was just unbelievable in the,
ring but he was a.

Speaker 1 (03:18:16):
Three Time National Big eight.

Speaker 2 (03:18:19):
Champion he won every amateur wrestling thing you could, win
and then went.

Speaker 1 (03:18:24):
On to be a great professional.

Speaker 2 (03:18:26):
Wrestler And kurt probably those two guys are the two
best amateurs turned pro in the history of the wrestling.

Speaker 1 (03:18:34):
Business kurt had.

Speaker 2 (03:18:35):
It, yeah there's some guys That i'll see him. Punk you,
know he's got a good, presence he looks. Good he's
put weight. On he's put on probably forty, pounds And
cyber wrestled a few years.

Speaker 1 (03:18:47):
AGO i saw him ON tv the other, night and holy,
smokes as he got he's starting to fill, out you.

Speaker 2 (03:18:53):
Know but, yeah there's a lot of. Guys there's a
lot of guys that have been given an opportunity that have.

Speaker 1 (03:18:58):
That they wouldn't be. Making they wouldn't be, drawn they
wouldn't be selling out big buildings the way they. Do
if they didn't have guys that could draw, money they
could do, interviews they could, wrestle they could do.

Speaker 2 (03:19:09):
Stuff it's just, today when my dad was doing, it
LIKE i, say it was good versus. Bad it was
big versus, small it was rich versus. Poor there were
two ends of the. Yardstick today it's sometimes it's like
they're just two guys in their own. Wrestling AND i

(03:19:29):
guess IF i watched, IT i would better know some
of the. Personalities but watching the, match you can't tell
if it's good versus. Bad you can't tell because everybody's,
punching everybody's, kicking everybody's throwing each.

Speaker 1 (03:19:45):
Other over the top rope.

Speaker 2 (03:19:46):
Everybody they're both guys are doing the same, thing so
no one is set out as there's JUST i don't.
Know it's just difficult now to know if you gonna
root for the good guy or the bad. Guy you
don't know who anybody is because they're both doing the same.
Things both people are pulling everybody's, Hair both people are

(03:20:07):
blinding each. Other both people are doing all the things
that everybody. Does so kind of like just watching two
guys in the ring doing stuff you got nobody to
feel sorry, for nobody you want to cheer, for because,
yeah well they're. Both he stuck his finger in his,
eye he pulled his. Hair, okay they're. Even he did,
that they did, That, okay they're. Even god dang, it,

(03:20:29):
man he could get out of that. Guy quit pulling his.
Hair he was almost over him and.

Speaker 1 (03:20:34):
He stuck his.

Speaker 2 (03:20:34):
FINGER i, mean there's none of that Emotional, hi there's
no emotional attachment. Anymore it's just tipt tip tip tip protact.
Tennis no emotional bond is happening. Anymore do you ever
want to write a? BOOK i don't. Know, uh you,

(03:20:56):
Know I've my wife keeps saying and people THAT i know, said,
OH i don't know how to write. It i'm not
going to sit down and write a, book you.

Speaker 1 (03:21:02):
KNOW i, MEAN i, guess you, know nobody believe.

Speaker 2 (03:21:07):
IT a lot of THINGS i wouldn't want to write
because there's a lot of personal issues with people that
are all still, alive that are all still, good that
there's nobody's. Business you, know they, KNOW i, know we,
Know And i'm not going to write things that could
hurt someone's feeling or you, know mess up someone's life

(03:21:32):
or just. Anything you, KNOW i JUST i don't need,
it you. KNOW i, mean, YEAH i. Know So i've
thought about, it Like i've laughed and, said nobody'd believe.
It i'd tell somebody's stories and they'd, go you're out
of your. Mind you didn't run a car a hund't
and eighty miles an hour through six fence poles and
a telephone pole six feet off the.

Speaker 1 (03:21:52):
Ground and walk away from.

Speaker 2 (03:21:53):
It that's a bunch of.

Speaker 1 (03:21:54):
Crap you.

Speaker 2 (03:21:54):
Know you didn't get drunk and beat up two guys
over there and walking down the street and wanted to
do this do? That you, KNOW i just don't do. That,
WELL i, did you know my life has been quite
wild and, crazy and.

Speaker 1 (03:22:10):
Some of the Things i'm not really proud, of and
but for the most PART i. Am you. KNOW i
never really.

Speaker 2 (03:22:15):
Bothered anybody that didn't need to be, bothered never went
out and picked a fight with.

Speaker 1 (03:22:19):
Anybody never never back down from a fight with.

Speaker 2 (03:22:22):
Anybody and then all of a, sudden when they found
themselves getting their asses, whipped they were calling lawyers and oh,
god my grand professional wrestler did this and.

Speaker 1 (03:22:32):
THAT i, mean you, know just stupid.

Speaker 2 (03:22:35):
Stuff BUT.

Speaker 1 (03:22:38):
I would be hard to write a. Book it'd be,
very very.

Speaker 2 (03:22:41):
HARD i Mean i'd have to sit with, SOMEONE i
guess like yourself or a machine or, something BECAUSE i
MEAN i just couldn't sit down and write write, stories you.
KNOW i mean THAT i have an adult attention. DEFICIT
i can't focus on something long enough to.

Speaker 1 (03:22:57):
Sit.

Speaker 2 (03:22:57):
Down that would be weeks and weeks and weeks and.
Weeks though you, KNOW i like riding motorcycles and playing
in boats and looking at good looking ladies and eating
and having fun and going to the, gym AND i
got too much living to do yet sit down at
the book to tell.

Speaker 1 (03:23:14):
Us in, closing what's going on in your life? Today
where you, Working what are you doing just besides the
women and Develop, REALLY.

Speaker 2 (03:23:22):
I started buying real estate WHEN i was. Nineteen, again my,
Dad my dad told me so. Much he taught me
and prepared me so well for a. Life and when
he was telling, ME i had no idea what he
was talking. ABOUT i was, sixteen, seventeen eighteen years, old
AND i MEAN i still remember simple things that he would,
say and you, go.

Speaker 1 (03:23:42):
Wow how did he know? That you, know and all.

Speaker 2 (03:23:46):
Of us kids always think our parents are dumbasses, anyway
we think we know more than. Them but he, said you,
know time's on your. Side he, said you're, young start
buying real estate. Now it's never going to get any.
Cheaper and he called every every house or every individual
real estate deal was a forced savings. Account so you

(03:24:07):
got money in the bank and you get a wild
hair in your, ass you can just go get the
money and spend. It if you've got a building sitting,
there you got to advertise, it you got to think
about what you're going to. Do you got to find
somebody'd buy it's so they're forced savings. Accounts and SO
i started buying real estate WHEN i was. Nineteen Kevin.
Selivan as a matter of, fact bought our first properties

(03:24:28):
together Over Daytona beach in nineteen seventy, two and SO
i wound up at you, know fifty years, old with dirt,
everywhere and continued buying. SOME i just finished my wife
AND i just finished five new homes up north Of.
Clearwater and of course the housing market took a. Crap

(03:24:48):
everybody's dealing with. That But dad always, said don't ever
leverage one to try to get the other. One every
deal has to stand on its. Own so every house
That i've, GOT i just put mortgages, on put renters in,
them playing the. Mortgage i'm not out of pocket. Nothing
then when the economy gets, Better i'm going to have
an unbelievable inventory that you.

Speaker 1 (03:25:08):
Know i'll be.

Speaker 2 (03:25:08):
Good everything's. Good so just developing real estate and traveling
and enjoying my grand baby WHEN i get a chance
to see, her and playing in, boats, motorcycles, cars you name.
It i'm not doing it all.

Speaker 1 (03:25:24):
Right in, closing what do you want to say to
fans Of Mike?

Speaker 2 (03:25:27):
Grant thank you.

Speaker 1 (03:25:29):
Very much for your support through all the. Years you've been.
Wonderful you've given me the opportunity to be here. Today
how about any gram fans Of Aady. Gram same. Thing
my dad lived for the wrestling.

Speaker 2 (03:25:41):
Fan you, know he wanted he wanted nothing more than
every person that was in every building or watched ANY tv,
show if they thought it was real or not, real he.

Speaker 1 (03:25:52):
Wanted them to know he was.

Speaker 2 (03:25:53):
Real he wanted if the ticket was five, dollars he
wanted to give them ten dollars worth of. Wrestling he
he loved the wrestling. Fans he always signed. Autographs he
always was very respectful because they're the ones that allow
us to do the things we. Do they're the ones
that pay our. Bills without wrestling, fans we'd all be.

(03:26:15):
Broke we'd all be doing something. ELSE i don't know
What i'd be, doing but you, KNOW i, mean without the,
fan we're out of.

Speaker 1 (03:26:22):
Luck and he realized that at a very.

Speaker 2 (03:26:24):
Young, age and he always had, time signed, autographs did.
Everything it was always very respectful and very nice and
very good to his.

Speaker 1 (03:26:31):
Fans and if you're a fan Of Eddie, graham you
know you Are Mike. Graham you know you get your money's.
Work you sure as hell a fan Of Florida Championship.
Wrestling so do you want to say to those, fans,
yes you.

Speaker 2 (03:26:44):
Know kind of the same. Thing look forward To Championship
wrestling From florida is coming back ON. Tv Steve kern
is producing the, Show Dusty rhodes is the, commentator and
there's a lot of a lot of, young great athletes
that are going to be going to work FOR. Wwe
so it's fun to see somebody now that a year
or two years from now might be the Next World's Heavyweight.
Champion so watch For Florida Championship.

Speaker 1 (03:27:07):
Wrestling and you heard it here an honorary video And Mike,
Graham Thanks, mike you are a. Pleasure thank you getting

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