💥 " Paul Roma Drops Bombs: Career Shoot Flair's Ego, Triple H Betrayal & Vince's Dirty Games"

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Titlematchnetwork dot Com.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Welcome to another edition of the r Video Shoot interview
Seriesly You. We're joined by Paul Roma. Thanks for being
here today with us.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Nice to be here.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
It's been you know, I've always want to do an
interview with you and finally got the time to do
it this weekend. So let's talk about your background. We're
your wrestling fan growing up.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
No, I'll never watch wrestling growing up, not at all. No,
just got into it. My dad said hey, you should
do this, and I was like, man, I forget I'm
gonna do that fake shit.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
And that was at what age around was this that
conversation with.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Probably within a year maybe two years of me getting
into wrestling.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Now, you had a background in bodybuilding.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
I did? I did. Yeah. I started out bodybuilding, took
the second biggest contest, you know, amateur contest in the
United States, and I was invited to the USA by
one of the head judges. Didn't go and asked to
turn pro, and I said, you know, this really isn't
for me.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
So your father recommended that you want to get into
the business and you didn't really want to. So how
did it come about that you actually said, all right,
maybe this is something I should look into.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
A ex pro fighter that knew my family asked me to,
you know, come to a show with him. He knew
some of the promoters. We talked to the promoters. I
had to go through a wrestling school, and then things
started to move on from there.

Speaker 4 (01:26):
Who was the trainer at the wrestling school, Tony Altamari
he was first, and then.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Mister Fuji took me under his wing and everything started
to really escalate from there.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
What was mister FUJII like as a teacher because.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
In this business, yeah, he is phenomenal teacher. Taught me
to go over to ropes backwards, you know, just worked
me like I wanted, like I used to train really hard.
A lot of respect for him, and everybody respected him.
So it was a good thing. Uh, And people in
wrestling either fear you or respect you. I don't know

(02:05):
which one it was at the time, but you know,
he had a lot to do with, you know, people
just not playing reds on me.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
What state was this and where was his school located at?

Speaker 1 (02:16):
We worked actually at right before live events, so wherever
it was New Hampshire, Maine, w w F, so you.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Were pretty much on the road training, getting your you know,
learning the business on the road with mister food or well.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
I'd go to shows that he was at, okay, and
then we you know, I'd get there early, a couple
of hours early, and he just run me. I mean,
I knew the basics. He was just really fine tuning
a lot of you know, what I was doing. And
then once I got on the road with him, he
started really educating me on the psychology of wrestling.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
And the office had no problem with like, you know,
you're getting in the ring before sure or anything.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
No, there was no one in the building, okay, so
it didn't.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Matter as far as learning a business for you. What
was harder for you to pick up psychology or the
learning to take bumps or psychology psychology? Anytime during your
training did you say, maybe this isn't for me.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
You were never. I've never failed anything I've ever done
in my life, so, you.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Know, taking bumps no problem. He picked it right up.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
No. Probably know they in Altimore's school, and I didn't
really I didn't recognize it at the time, but they
tried to discourage me. Somebody put in a bad, bad
word about me. Uh, somebody that actually owned a gym,
and you know he put in a bad word to

(03:39):
uh to toe me and uh yeah, so they tried
to discourage me a little bit, but never happened. He
never made it.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
I did.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
Hell uh, mister Fuji.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
As far as would you consider him your mentor yes? Okay,
what was probably the most important thing that you might
have learned from mister Fuji?

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Ring psychology? It is the most important thing that I
learned from him. You know, I always respected everybody, and
so you know, it wasn't about respect. You know, I
didn't know enough about the business, so being green wasn't
a good thing. You know, him watching over me was
a big plus, you know, because again I was brought

(04:22):
up as you know, being true and who you are.
You know, your words, your bond and your handshake, and
you know that's the way it works. But when I
got into wrestling, you know, I learned that that wasn't
the case at all. You know, everybody fucking lied to you,
and you know who's stabbing you in the back, and
you know who'd steal a fucking dollar right out from

(04:43):
under you. It's just the way that it was. So
there were a chosen few that you could really trust
and chosen for a few that you know, you'd say,
you know, hey, that's my friend, or you look out
for them.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Right, you know. So yeah, being trained before the house shows,
did any of the boys come up to you and
offer advice to you at all? Or did they not?

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Not what Fuji trained you, everybody stayed away.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
Did you stay away?

Speaker 2 (05:10):
Did you ever go to any of the guys looking
for advice or you just stayed away from.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
Just well, no, no, I I always listened to advice
to start with. If I had questions, I'd ask them.
I took what they said, you know, like a grain
of salt, and you know, I put it in my head,
move it around, you know, does this make sense? That
makes sense? So on and so forth. Everybody had their
own way of working, so you really had to find

(05:34):
your niche. And I think one of the guys who
gave me the best advice, well, I shouldn't say one
of the guys Orndorf, Paul Arndorf. This is well as
I was a babyface and he was working when I
say on top, you know, main events and things like that.
Long before him and I got together, I was really
break into the visions. Yeah, probably around and maybe maybe

(06:00):
a little later, maybe eighty seven or so, you know, uh,
and and again and it was this was actually in Maryland,
and I'll never forget it. You know. He said to me, say, kid,
he goes you look great. You know how to work?
He said, no one will. Vince will never promote you.
Just like that, Vince will never promote you. So you

(06:22):
have to promote yourself. So whatever Paul Roma does, you
give that to the people every night. And that's exactly
what I did. So, oh that was a big plus.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
How No, you were working independent shows as well around
this period of time or were you just strictly just
getting trained?

Speaker 1 (06:40):
No, I independent shows, but they were kind of related
to WWF at the time. You know, they're affiliated somehow,
so you know, but no, not many one or two.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Really, any memories stick out about working for.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
The NDC for no, nothing sticks out really nothing.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
Okay, how'd you get into WWF as far as like
maybe getting on the road full time working house shows
and TVs?

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Well, how I got started was, you know, I went
to the school. They were prospecting people. The word was,
you know, hey, you know, I got this guy, it
looks great, could work? Send them the TV and so
they threw me in the ring. Liked the look and all.
But I had no one to, no family members before me,

(07:36):
you know, I had no ties in the business. So
you know, for three years, I was, you know, an
enhancer making everybody look good, right, And then finally I
got fed up and I said, you know what, this
is bullshit. I was better than these fucking guys, and
you know I can work at least a little bit.
I'm not going anywhere. This sucks, so, you know what,

(07:58):
I'm done. So I went over to Gene told him
I'm done, and he said, no, no, no, give it
a little more time. I'll go talk to Caesar, you know,
which is Vince, right, And I said, I've had enough. Man.
You know, I mean, I don't know anybody. I'm not connected,
you know what I mean. If I was a landy pofo,
you know, I'd be on top of the world with

(08:18):
my looks and everything and my you know, my body,
forget it, I'd be on top, you know, I'd be
a champion. So he said, hang in there, let me
talk to Vince, and so I did, and they gave
me a little bit of a push, which was okay.
You know, kept kept that care in front of me.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
What are some of your early members working, some of
the guys on top of the company before you got
your break in the business.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Some of the memories. I mean, there was there were
guys like you know, Kemp Petera that respected you for
the work you put into your body.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
There were guys like you know, say beef Cake that
were jealous of the way he looked, and you know,
so you had to take the good with the bad.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
What were initial I questions about Vince McMahon, maybe the
first time you met him or you've had interactions with
him early on in the eighties. Was he approachable for
you or was.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
He Well, I actually went through I didn't really. Vince
was an announcer when I broke in. His dad was
running the business. Yeah. So but when I met him, yeah,
he was fine, you know, ordinary guy. He was definitely
into the bodies. He loved bodies, right, so, you know,
but again I had no, you know, no connections with wrestling.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
When you broke into. Also, New York was known for
a big man's territory. Were you intimidated at all about
by that? As far as like, you know, look at
Hawk oag in the size and all that, or did.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
No because you know, I mean the person that I am,
And some people would take it as you know, stuck
up cocky.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
I really don't.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Maybe it's a little cocky, but it's it's it's about
you know, knowing who and what you are, you know,
and the struggles you went through in your life. These
people don't know me, they don't know about you know
how hard I had to struggle to you know, just
stay alive in life. And when I'll get into detail.
And so as far as height wise, there's a ton

(10:21):
of guys that were bigger than me, you know, good looking.
They couldn't touch me. My body, bar none, there was
nobody had a body better than mine. Wrestling, you know,
my ability only got better I because I wasn't this monster.
I did things other people can't do, like walk up
the ropes, walk up backwards, you know, do this, high flying,

(10:42):
you know, dropkick hier than anybody, you know. So I
worked on my special attributes. So intimidated. Absolutely not Old Hogan.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Was he one of the boys or did he keep
to himself and have an ego?

Speaker 1 (10:57):
Everybody I think has an ego, you know, whether they
recognize it or not. In the beginning, I thought Hogan
was an all right guy. You know, I travel with them,
jump in the limmo with them. Hey, Paul's go to
the gym, you know, and yeah, he go do his thing.
I go do mine. And but you know, time has changed. Man.

(11:20):
When you start to go down, that's when the ego
starts to kick in. I take a lot harder.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
What were your initial impressions of the locker room in
the eighties?

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Friendly, really friendly, but.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Not a lot of jealous everybody's working together as a team.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Or well, you cut me off before I was going
to say that, Yes, very friendly, but not real. Like
I said, there were some guys that out of their hearts.
I mean they would help you. Hey, you look great
and really mean it. You know, you know you should
you should do this more, or you know, try that more. Hey,

(12:03):
try to get a little more in. You know, Well,
this guy's not giving me enough, you know. And again,
these guys are guys on top. You're putting them over,
so it's really only what they gave you. And my
big break came when I worked with John Studd.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
Memories are working with John.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Great, nice guy, very easy to work with We were
in Ontario and they said, hey, you're going to work
with him. He's he's working with Hogan. You know the
note you can't slam him kind of thing, right, And
I said, okay, great. You know, so he says, hey kid,
you know what can you do? He says like that

(12:43):
to me, So I said, well, I could drop kick you.
So he started to laugh at me, and me, being
the person that I am, you know, it's still green,
I got really pissed. So I said, you know, he goes,
you could drop kick me. You know, it starts laughing.
I said, I drop kick you up the top of
your fucking head. Because now I'm pissed. He goes, okay,

(13:04):
you know, let's see. So I went out there. I
planted my left foot on his forehead and my right
foot over the top. And when I came back in,
they said, you drop kick every time you go out
in the match. They never seen anybody jump and drop
kick Big John stud So was there a lot.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
Of pressure on you early on? Did you feel pressure?

Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah? Absolutely?

Speaker 2 (13:25):
How did you deal with it?

Speaker 1 (13:28):
Ground it out? You know, you just grind it. It's
you don't really understand, you know, you don't have a
grasp on the pressure. I mean, I walked into When
I first walked into TV for the first time, I
looked at Hogan and I said to the guy that
I went up there with, I said, who's that? And
he looked at me, said you're shitting me, right, And

(13:49):
I said, no, dude, I said, who the fuck is that?
He goes, that's oh Hogan. I'm like, okay, so what
the fuck does that mean to me? And he's like, oh,
that's you know. I'm like, okay, you know, I mean,
it was what it was. You know, I didn't know
what a guy was. I didn't follow wrestling, I know.
I mean I knew off Bruno San Martino and who
didn't He's a legend, you know, but as far as

(14:11):
anything else, didn't know.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
Wow. Early memories of Andrea the Giant.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
All memories of Andre are fantastic, great guy. And only
met him because of Fuji. Fuji introduced me, you know,
this is Andre, this meaning he was telling Andre, this guy.
You know. It was like, boy son, he's my guy.
And right then and there, at that very moment, Andre

(14:41):
asked me if I played cards and I said no,
and he said, well you played cribbage and I said no,
and he says, well, I'm going to teach you. He
goes sit down, and that was it. Man, Me and
him hit it off.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
From when I understand If Andre liked you, you were in.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
If not, you're fucked right, You're fucked Stay out of
his way, don't come in the locker room.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
A lot of heat with I know Uncle Elmer. He
had some other guys as well. Did you ever see
Andre in the ring stiff?

Speaker 1 (15:04):
Some of the guys never I saw. I saw him
hit Coco. Beware. We got into a battle royal and
they said, when Andre steps into the ring, everybody attack
him and get him out of the ring. And as
Andre started to come in, Coco made a bee line

(15:26):
over Tim and everybody was just standing back because they're
all waiting for him to get in, and Andre just swatted
at him like a fly and sent him across the range.
And that was it. That was probably the only time
I saw Andre stiff.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Somebody you all, well, we'll talk about it later.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
You had an altercation with Coco as well.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
I did.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
We'll talk about that coming up. Roddy Piper memories of
being in the same locker room with Roddy.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Great guy, crazy guy. And again I'm basing everything on
people that either feared or respected me, and how that's
how they acted words me, you know, showing me uh
you know again, showing me respect or showing me fair,
whichever one it was, I don't know. So I helped

(16:10):
Roddy at the gym show him some things he asked
me to and we hit it off. You know.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
Memories of the Ultimate Warrior And did you like him
as a person. A lot of people say mix things
about him.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
I had no issues with an Ultimate, none whatsoever. Never
gave me a reason to dislike him, you know, So yeah, no,
nothing bad.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
Man, Okay. Randy Savage another legend, Randy.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Randy was a funny character to get to know. I
think when Miss Elizabeth and we were in Florida, we
flew went to Florida. Miss Elizabeth met my son and
just went crazy, you know, and he came over to me,
and I think that's the first time and from that
point on we started to jive. He said to me, goes,

(17:04):
you know, hey, Roma man, you know, what the hell
bring your kid here? You know, she wants one blah
blah blah, you know, And I said sorry, man. You know,
it's like, oh man, I'm not going to hear the
end of this, you know, And then we started to
hit it off. Always said nice things about my body,
you know, always complimented me, you know, and the hard work.

(17:27):
So I was grateful for that. And you know, in
the very beginning, didn't know him. I thought he was
this guy that was so into himself, you know, and
for not a lot of good reasons. His body actually
got better, you know, years later, you know it just

(17:48):
for whatever reason, maybe he learned more about working out.
I don't know. I mean I heard he was hell
of a baseball player, but again I don't know. I
never saw it.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
Did you see how he was very protective of Elizabeth.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Very protective.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 1 (18:03):
I think he did what a lot of the guys
today didn't do. You know, if you bring your girlfriend
or wife into the business, you're going to lose them.
And you could go down the list better than I
can as to how many guys got their wives involved
in wrestling and they just left them like that. He
protected that was he. You know, ain'tal about it, very

(18:25):
ain'tal about it. You know, I've never seen anything like
it in my life. I mean, he locked her down,
but he knew more than me. I didn't get it
at the time. Hell I didn't get it for all
the time I was with the WWF. Now that I'm
out of the business and I see and hear what's
going on, now I get it. Brother was before his time.
He knew, he knew.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Were you content with your role in the WWF back
in the early eighties or did you know your spot
on the show and you were fine with that?

Speaker 1 (18:54):
No? I was never content, you know, I mean losers
are content. I was never a loser. Like I said,
I've never felt anything I've done in my life. Well,
we got with Power and Glory, and you know we
put that together Vince. Since Vince didn't create it, he
did everything he could not to promote it. But you

(19:15):
know it was something that was just meant to be.
You know, they say it was, you know, made in
the heavens. It really was made in the heavens. I
mean the way Ray and I jail together, that just
came so natural. I'm going to talk all that, you know,
so now we we should have been champs. Everybody said
it in the locker room everybody knew it. Uh, the
Heart Foundation said we were best tag team ever. Even

(19:38):
leads you to doom. I mean you know, so you know,
I mean we get raided like God only knows on
the list. But at the end of the day, are
they raiding us because you know, of not having the belt?
Are they rating us because of our ability and our popularity?
Nobody could have touched that, and no one ever tell
me different.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
Did you start off doing TVs first? Or were you
on the house shows right away? What came first?

Speaker 1 (20:03):
For a couple of house shows? No, no, not for
a couple w W d F independant shows came first.
Then they brought me to TV.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
Did any of the guys I don't know if I
asked you this try to take liberties at all with
you in the ring? Or is everyone easy to work with?

Speaker 1 (20:21):
The only person that and it wasn't his fault at
the time, was I had a matter of brutus and
they wanted they wanted to beat Salvatory Blomo, and Blomo
went bullshit on the chief and he was listen, this
is coming from fucking Vince. They don't want to beat
the kid. They want you to take it. So you

(20:45):
know I had gone in the ring, and I was
always taught to, you know, show your body, show what
you got, right, So instead of going in there and
doing my wrestling shit, you know, I'm grabbing a hold
and just flexing for these people. And then he bellied
it back me. And you know, one thing leads to
another whatever, you know, that's how it ends. So my bad.

(21:06):
His smarts were taking over, you know. And but after that, no,
I think everything was was pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
How long before you and Jim started teaming up Jip Powers.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
I don't know, a couple of years, probably five years,
I would think at least four, right, and they brought
us together.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
Now originally I don't know how true this is.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
I heard that mister T was supposed to energy you guys.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yes, that's very true. He just never showed up. I
heard he was notorious for not keeping appointments. And I
think we're in Chicago and we're supposed to have him
walk us out to the ring. You know, the jack
off never shows which changed our career career big time, right,
you know, And then I changed it later on down

(21:54):
the road.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Now, as far as teaming with Jim, I think your
very first time you started getting a little pushy whatever,
kamal Is, I don't know if you remember. It was
a TV match, famly Okay, you guys went over and
that's when I believe Vince was doing commentating and he
called you guys the Young Stallions, and that's how the
name stuck. Okay, memories of our working with Jim outside

(22:17):
the ring did well, even you know, we'll talk about.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
In the ring.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
We did an interview with Jim Powers maybe two years ago,
and he says, you guys just did not get along.

Speaker 3 (22:26):
You guys had personality conflicts.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
Right from the get go.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Right from the get go.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
I think he said the very first time he met
you to work with you, or even picked you up
at your house and you made him wait or something
like that.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
He was telling us a story that you.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
Met you either he's never been to my home, maybe
he was a hoteler, you.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
Made him wait or something, and then just everything went
downhill from there.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Okay, you know his his his recollection of it. Uh,
they put us together, can have connection was out, so
they brought the Young Stallions in. We're gonna give you
it pushed. This was a big break for us, and
he was not punctual. Getting to the arena our biggest,

(23:09):
biggest blow out. And I think what really broke the
camel's back was he changed. He loved to change his flights,
and I was real stickler about not changing my flight
because we got to get there. Once we get there,
who cares what you do. So we flew into LA
and we always stay at the same hotel. I checked in.
I got there early, checked in. He said he's taking

(23:31):
a later fight, no problem. So I waited way to wait.
It kept going down the front desk every time I
saw a shuttle come in, you know it was checked
the desk. No, he's not checked in. No, he's not
checked in. So I end up believing the hotel and
I said, I gotta get the hell out of here
because you're you're in LA, so you know you have

(23:51):
that window after that. You know you're going to be late.
So I take off and as I'm leaving the parking
lot of shuttle bus comes in and I turn around,
come back. He's not on it. So I head down
you know, the uh, the boulevard, and I said, another
shut up coming down. So I'm like, damn, man, you

(24:11):
know I'm gonna be so late. I'm gonna get so screwed.
But fuck it, I can't leave him. I gotta come
back because he won't have a car. So I go
back again. He's not on it. I said, you know,
fuck it, I gotta go, so I take off. It
was an outdoor event, Orange County wherever it was, and
I come in and I said, uh, you know, to

(24:31):
Gorilla Monsoon. I said, you know, girl, I'm so sorry.
I'm late. You know, I said, I was waiting for
Jimmy and you know, but he goes, what are you
talking about? Jimmy's been here for over an hour, and
I'm like what. He goes, and you're fined? I think
seven hundred he hit me with or something like that,
and now I've lost my fucking mind. So he was

(24:51):
in the other trailer, so I leave mine. I go
over there and he's like, hey, man, what's going on.
I say, you fucking kidding me? What's going on? Dude?
I just got fune number one? And then you know,
I go through the whole you know, shabanga them. He goes, yeah,
I changed my flight. I just picked up a car
and came here. So I was like, you know what,
fuck this man? I don't need this bullshit in my life.

(25:14):
Come into the ring drunk all the time, and I
was pulling double duty because no want to work with them.
So I'm in there. If it's a twenty minute match,
I'm in there, man, you know. And then tag him in,
you know, and again nobody they didn't want to work
with him. So I said, fuck this. I got a wife,
I got a kid, maybe two at the time, and

(25:36):
you know house, he lives in an apartment, he's got
a girlfriend. That's it. So I went to Pat Patterson
and told him I'm done. I can't do this anymore.
He asked me, beg me, please give it more time.
I said no, Pat, I said, I'm not doing it.
And I know he was. He dug Jimmy. I mean,

(25:58):
you know, Jimmy was his candy ass. And I don't
mean nothing against Jimmy, you know. And they knew I
don't let guys suck my dick, so that wasn't happening,
you know. And I'm not saying they sucked Jimmy's dick,
but you know, they had a better shot at it,
and saying that so that they were pissed at me,
I mean, really fucking pissed at me because they put

(26:19):
us together. So they broke us up, and some of
the guys came over and he was blaming me, blaming me,
and he was really tight with Legion to Doom. And
I don't I remember the guys which one's name, but.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Joe was Animal and Mike was hawked.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
No, I'm sorry, not Lesion to Demolition. Yeah, so he
came over to him and uh, he came over to
me and he said, yeah, you guys broke up, you know,
which he's probably happy about. And I said, yeah. He
was so something about you know, Jimmy, you know, me
being the bad guy. And I said, you know what,
I said, we'll see the cream comes to the top.

(26:58):
And sure enough they started giving me a push and
then I started to move, move, move, and then I
saw me plateau. I went to the office Paula, and
Glory was was born.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
I got some more questions about jim But you had
mentioned Pat Patterson. Everybody knows, you know, he's openly gay.
Now back in the day, in the eighties, was he
open about being gay or was it he was open
to the boys.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, that's why it was nothing new when this they
announced this wrestler as being gay. I mean, I know
it's all set up. I know it was all publicity's
for events without a doubt, you know, But at the
end of the day, it's it was open knowledge for us.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Did you ever see anything with Patton and the boys
without mentioning names or anything like that? Obviously? Did any
guys ever benefit from maybe doing favors?

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (27:42):
Okay, okay, moving.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
On and saying that.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
I don't know how open you want to talk about it.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
I don't know, No, let me just run this by you. Yes,
So hercule desires are together, We come into the locker
room and were like second to last match whatever. So
all the boys are sitting around and Ray says, you know, jeez,
if my partner will go to the office and let
Pat suck his dick, we could get out of it early.

(28:12):
You know, he could put us on top, you know.
And that was the big joke, right, So I said, well,
I guess we're gonna be last every fucking night then,
and then every started laughing, you know, because they knew
they know a straight.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Did Jim have a big ego?

Speaker 1 (28:26):
Absolutely?

Speaker 3 (28:27):
Why do you feel that the office never really got
behind you?

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Guys?

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Was it because Jim's tardiness or maybe he said he was,
you know, party too much? Whatnot? Do you do you
feel ever really hurt you guys as far as being
attacked team and getting pushed with the other teams.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
No, I I think that they wanted us to learn.
They put us in all the small shows. You know,
you guys learned how to work together. I took a
big pay cut because where I was working as a single,
even though I wasn't on top, I was making a
hell of a lot more than when they put me
with him in this little shitty house show. So and

(29:01):
I had said that to him too, you know, because
he came in complaining one night and I said, you know,
you need to shut the fuck up because I'm taking
a big cut. Man, I'm making this now, I'm making this,
so you know, get your shit together, you know. And
again that's really what it comes down to, is you
know this fucking crying. But we were getting a push.

(29:25):
Rumor had it that he was propositioned and he opened
his mouth complained about it, thinking he was going to
get further and he got less. So I don't know
how true it is. He would have to tell you
better than me. But that's it.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
We're talking about Jim Powers and you guys had some
pretty good matches with the.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
Heart Foundation, Breton Jim Lightheart.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
You guys actually went over on them at Saturday Night's
to me an event, Were those guys happy about doing
that or was it all business for them? And talk
about that match?

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Do you remember know if they were happy about it?
But you know, again it was it was business. Brett
and Jim were you know, professionals, So yeah, I mean,
I don't nothing was ever said.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
What are your early memories about Brett and Jim working
with those guys?

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Very easy to work with, I mean, and Bill was
a little stiff everybody says that, but funny as hell
to work with. You know, he's a comedian. Uh. Brett
was obviously a technician, and I think we got along
really well.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
Memories about Brian Blair and Jim Brunzell the Killer Jim
Brunzell very.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Friendly, professional, you know, all round nice guy. Uh. Blair
a little tough to work with, really into himself, very
friends with pretty much friends with Hogan, So you know,
what's in it for me kind of attitude? Uh, you know,

(31:00):
I pushed it with him a few times to show
him basically that you know, who was a stronger person
in the ring, just to set it, set him in
his place, you know what I mean. You want to
fuck around me, that's great, but understand one thing. At
the end of the day, I'm superior to you, you know.
And there were different ways to do it and have

(31:21):
fun about it for the most part, you know what
I mean. So you know again, but it was very
hard to understand. You didn't ever know where he was
coming from. You know, do you trust him? Do not
trust him? I didn't trust him, but I was cordial
to him.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
Okay. You also have to work a little bit with
the conquistadors.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, Jose Luis Rivera, Yes, what can I tell you?
Easy matches, just easy hard you know, what's his name? Spot?
Very lazy, you know, very lazy and like getting beat.

(32:01):
How ke you blame him? Was in his spot. We
were getting the push, so you should be, you know,
making us look good. But we had to work every
night with them guys to look good.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
And you also have to work a little bit with
demolition as well.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
Demolition was real easy to work with, you know, so
good at what they did. Would give advice to, you know,
because we were young coming up. You know, fire back,
fire back, you know, so they were a big help too.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
Was there attention between the tag teams that were being
on top for the spot?

Speaker 1 (32:33):
I mean not that was you know publicized in the
locker room between everybody.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Now you also when you were there when the Ken
peteriancid it happened with mister sao at McDonald's. What are
your memories of hearing about that incident?

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Just that the cops had a hard time stopping them,
you know so, but didn't change the way I felt
about Ken peterra you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
Was there a big buzz and locker room after that weekend?

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Pretty much just a lot of talk about it? Yeah, yeah, nothing,
you know, nothing good or bad.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Eventually you and Jim broke up as a team, and
you talked about it earlier on just your personal problems
that you guys had and didn't get along. I guess
before the match you mentioned that sometimes he would drink.
I mean that pretty much the big thing that ended
your entire you know, tag team, just just dealing with.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
I think that played a big role in the beginning.
He did, you know, we'd go in the ring and
we'd work both of us, wouldn't take direction, and if
I did something in the ring the next night, he
would do all the things that I you know, I'd say, hey, Jim, look,
you know, come off the top, give the guy an

(33:47):
arm chop, and then go into a full row, come up,
pop his partner in the corner. When his partner comes in,
we'll do the switch, you know, get everybody involved. And
you know, then he started taking you know, like my
spot after I showed him what to do, like I
show him what I do, and next thing, you know,
he started doing things before me. And I'm like, okay,

(34:10):
all right, well let me think of something else to
do when I get in, all right. And then I
get in the ring and do something. And he started
doing the same thing I did, and I'm like, dude,
didn't you just see what I did to these guys.
You're doing the exact same thing. You know. It was
actually Barry Horowitz who came to me and said, dude,
he go to go. You know, I'm not working with

(34:30):
you guys anymore. And I'm like, what are you talking about,
you know, and he says, your partner, he just thinks
of alcohol. He says, I'm putting my life in his hands.
So I said, all right, fuck dude, I'm like, I'll
work the whole match. Okay, We'll give him the comeback
and call it a day. And that's what we did.
And I said, I can't keep going at this pace.

(34:51):
You know, I'm you know, getting beat up, not getting
beat up. You know, this is bullshit.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
So you went to the office and he complained and
he pretty much you split the team up. Was he
okay with that? Did he did he try to talk
to you on the side of like, oh, this is
gonna like I'm gonna go one way, You're gonna go
another way.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
He didn't say it like that, if I could recall,
he basically said, asked me why, and I told him
flat out why. You know, I had everything to lose
and he had really nothing to lose, you know. So yeah,
that was that was pretty much it, no big deal.

(35:29):
I think he thought that he was going right to
the top. After that, you know, it's fuck Paul, and
here I go. I don't think to this day he
really has a grip or maybe I don't on what
really transpired, you know, what really went wrong? You know
what I mean.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
So, were you nervous a little bit when you guys
split up? Did you like, were you unsure where you
were gonna get?

Speaker 1 (35:55):
No? I wasn't nervous at all. I don't know why.
Maybe I should have been, you know.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Did you know the direction that you were gonna go?
And did were you nervous about maybe just being you know,
lower than mid card or did they tell you that
you were gonna like, we're gonna do some of you.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
Well, they told me when when after the smoke cleared,
you know, Pat came to me and said, we're gonna
give you a little bit of a push. So I
was like, okay, great, you know what that meant. We'll
see you know. And again I stayed in a good spot, comfortable.
Most people would have been happy. I wasn't because you know,

(36:31):
I'm not an underachiever. I wanted to get more and more.
So I made some good money and then when you know,
it just plateaued. I came up with the idea of
Hercules in Roma.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
I'm coming up to that right now. A couple other
questions I want to ask you about your singles push
You worked the bars to call if any members of
working bars.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Probably like spot the days when he if he wasn't lazy, man,
he can go. And if he was lazy, like we
all get, you know, he was just a mule to
move around that.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
Ring members of all working bad news out Let's see,
because this is all around. I guess when they started
really qushing you, you also had dark matches at the
Rumble and I think Media six in Toronto. Yeah yeah,
and then they put you in with the bad news.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yeah, nothing to work with. Yeah, great guy, real, very real,
you know what I mean? Yeah, see, so you know
what I mean. We're doing it. We're doing this here, man.
And and you know when I say things like that
about somebody, and you know you met the dude, you
got the same thoughts. I'm not gonna come here and

(37:52):
sugarcoat stuff because I'm worried about running into Joe blow
down the road. You know. I said what I said,
you know, and it is what it is. At the
end of the day, I'm not looking to go back
to the resolvant and take me back. I said nothing
but nice things about you.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
No, right, what about Rick rud Memories of working Recrud.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
Rick Rick was great psychologically, he was great. You know
him and I went into a match in Canada and
we took I personally when I say brought the house down,
We brought the house down punching each other in the stomach.
And he came up with it, you know, he said, listen, man,
we'll go out and pose. You got a great body.

(38:32):
I got a great body. Let's pose, and then I'll
drill you in the stomach and you drill me. We'll
go back and forth and finally have to kick you,
you know, and bring you down to stop you. You know.
But he was, you know, I think once you got
to know him, he was easy to get along with.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
You also work a little bit with Rick Martel, did
I maybe one or two matches. It wasn't like all
of route memories.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
I don't remember anything with Martell.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
You get well, you did work Teddy BIOSSI remember working
with Teddy.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yes top ten as one of the one of the
best as far as you know, technical psychological wrestlers, you know,
regardless of me, you know, shitting on him during an interview, right,
I'm not going to take anything away from his ability
to wrestle. He's great.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
I did see an interview where you talked about him
being a hypocrite for preaching and then going back to
work with bits. Do you still stand by that, because
I think in his defense, he defended himself after he
read your thing and went on a radio show and
and pretty much said that he does fess up to
all the band things he's done on the road, but
he went back and tried to make the business better,
and I guess preached to the boys that they could
better themselves with, you know, lifestyles on the road that

(39:49):
he you know, made their own decisions.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
And okay, so with that being said, you know, it
starts at the top, right, you know, if you kill
the snake, you gotta cut its head off, old saying,
so you have to change Vince, and then that's going
to trickle down because everybody goes after, you know, or emulates,
you know, the master, and Vince's is Satan incognito man.

(40:16):
I mean, you know, he's the devil himself. He'll back
in the day, he got guys out of everything. You know,
if the guys did today what we did back then,
they shut the WWE down that fast, it'd be over,
you know. But he snuffed everything under the rug back

(40:38):
in the day. So going back to dBase. Fine, after
I jumped all over him, he came back and said,
by wait a minute, this is what I'm trying to do. Okay,
I get it, you know I get that now that
that's what you're trying to do. But at the end
of the day, you know you're not the Messiah. Yeah,

(41:01):
and if you don't have Vince's help, how you're going
to change it? Man? You think you're going to preach
to these guys that are are fucking and drugging and
you know, I mean, whatever else they're doing, you think
you're going to change them because you're going to preach
a few words of God to them. It's not gonna happen, man.
So you know what, that's your excuse or that's your comeback.

(41:23):
That's great, you're a great wrestler. At the end of
the day, you still gave in to the devil and
it was all about the almighty dollar because if not,
you went back and did it for free. Go preach
to them for free? Done?

Speaker 2 (41:40):
How crazy was the Rose schedule back in the eighties
and a drug scene in the rat scene in the eighties,
How crazy.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
We were rock stars? Think of Zeppelin and you know,
Jim Morrison, and just take that and use that because
you know, no matter where we went, everybody knew. I
mean we went overseas and you know we had all
you know, ring rats, you know, groupies waiting for us,

(42:10):
and I'm like, hell, I didn't know where we were
staying on hell these people know, you know, but they
did and they were everywhere.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Were you into the drug scene at all?

Speaker 1 (42:19):
No?

Speaker 2 (42:19):
No, what are your thoughts on star rates in the business?

Speaker 1 (42:21):
Just asking you. I think it's I think it's okay
in wrestling because no one's trying to be a bodybuilder.
They're just as I told Vince well and day, they're
just trying to get fluid in their joints to keep working,
to provide for their family. It's all they're doing, you

(42:44):
know what I mean. It's not again to be a
bodybuilder and make money that way. You know, you want
to go after stereoids, go after bodybuilding. They could shut
bodybuilding down, So why don't they go there? They won't,
you know, So it is what it is.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Do you believe in the wellness policy that goes on
over there?

Speaker 3 (43:03):
Do you think it's just?

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Why is that?

Speaker 1 (43:07):
Because I think they pick and choose, you know, And
now I'm getting letters that like I need help, I
can go to wherever, you know for rehab. Well, I
think Jimmy's been through it a couple of times or
once anyway, you know, and he's off. Are they chasing him? No?
You know, you know we're we're here at a wrestling

(43:27):
event where people are signing autographs. Look at every wrestler.
Everybody has body replacements and and you name it. There's
no insurance for these guys. You know, there's no four
one K. They're being ship for these guys. That fuck
is getting rich. God bless them. He's getting rid. Well,
devil bless them. He's getting because you don't believe in God.

(43:48):
You know, he's getting rich. And Triple H is there
now who's been in everybody else's shoes, and he's not
trying to change it. You know, he's not one of
the boys, you know, make a difference. How much will
it really cost you? You know what I mean at
the end of the day, I've always said that to
help these guys, right, show me his ankle today, I don't. Yeah,

(44:12):
I've seen it. I really want to look at it today.
I saw it last time and he still has gotten
it fixed. You know, you know he's He's a perfect example.
You spend one hundred million dollars on a campaign to
get elected into office, and you can't help people who

(44:33):
got you the money to spend one hundred million dollars.
You know, you know, at the end of the day,
brother can't take it. The hell with them anyway, So
it doesn't much matter.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Were you a big guy into stories at all when
you were in business? Okay, uh, let's talk about meeting
Ray Hercules Randas. What are your early memories of Ray.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
When I first met Ray was in Australia. I was
at SD Jones, specially Delivery Jones. We were tag teaming
and Ray made this sign towards me and SD and
I started laughing and ast. He looked at me and said,
he means it. Like what he means it. He wants

(45:16):
to cut our throats. I'm like, why I didn't do anything?
This guy don't even know, you know. He's like, well,
I'm just telling you. I'm like, okay, And then we
got I got through it, obviously, and I don't know how, Honestly, God,
I really don't know how. Ray and I started to
hit it off, but I said to him one day,

(45:39):
maybe it's to get to a show. I started getting
ready to all his shows, even though I was a
baby face, he was a heel, and we're supposed to
travel together. Back then, Vince got word and I had
said to some of the agents, he'll drop me off
and then I'll let him drive the car in and
then I'll walk into the building. And they're like, that's fine.

(46:01):
He's making every show on time. It's fine. So you know,
then I got into training with him. I showed him
my methods of training and he loved them. So we
hit it off right off the hot We're going to
the gym with both jim freaks. So we hit it
off and constantly challenging each other, which is great. And

(46:26):
then I just went to the office and said, hey, listen,
why do you put you know, raised dead in the water.
I'm dead in the water. Why do you put us together?
And call us power and glory? That was my name?
And Pat was like, wow, he goes, you came up
with that, and I said yeah, he goes, So who's

(46:48):
the power? And I guess you're the glory right like that?
And I said yeah, I said the whole thing behind
it be you know, my big man will never get beat.
I'll always take the fall. And when we win, even
if Ray goes to pin the guy, he gets off
the guy and gives me the tag and I walk
in and I pin him. Ray loved the idea, thought

(47:11):
it was great. He said, I'll talk to Vince. We'll
talk about a TV. Vince called us in, asked us
what we wanted to be. We told the meals and
away we went.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
Members of the angle you did with Bravo that led
to you guys Team.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
Phenomenal. They I didn't know how they were gonna switch
Ray and me to heal because they had taken unbeknown
anybody else, Ray and I went out in the ring
and we beat up some bad guys and they cheered us.
So we went out to music. So Vince is like, well,
this isn't fucking good. So then we went out against

(47:51):
more baby faces, like people that really knew these guys
with baby faces, and they cheered us. So he cut
the music and that didn't work. They still cheered, so
he says, fuck this, we got to come up with
an angle. So that's when we came up with the
Marty Jeannetti and or the Rockers angle.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
What do your rememberies of working those.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Guys phenomena two of the best workers in the business.
Uh gel jibe, you name it, man, They could rock
and roll, easy to work with.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Did you have any problems with Sean later on when
he you know, got his big push and big run.
A lot of people said he was really hard to
work with and other people's you know.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
I only worked with Sean when when they were the Rockers,
so that I wouldn't have any knowledge.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Of any good Martin Jeanetty stories, because I've heard a
couple that you've told before, and I'm sure you could share.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Oh do not to get Marty in trouble?

Speaker 2 (48:45):
The airplane one with the ship.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
Yes, yeah, So we're on a flight. I'm sitting in
front of this gentleman. Marty's in front of this gentleman.
Ray is sitting in the very back of the plane,
probably six seven seats back, rose back, and this guy
is just being a real dick to all the wrestlers,

(49:09):
and nobody was talking to him. He just he's just
being a dick. And then he started bragging about how
he just got out of prison. So now we figured
out why he's being a dick. And so Marty comes
walking by me and I see him drop something or Sean,
and Sean dropped something, and you know, I did the

(49:30):
same thing the guy did. I kind of reached down
to help him out. Well, unbeknown to me, Marty was
dropping a turd behind this guy that he just took
in the bathroom, right and the guy sat back, you know,
his back on it. So he sat there for a
bit and you know, he's like, you know, what's that?
What's that smell? And he stands up and he's like,

(49:53):
nobody shits on me? And he went back to clean it,
and he saw Ray in the back and he basically
o Ray that you know, he's gonna, you know, kick
his ass, shoot him whatever, you know. And I'm like, okay, well,
I gotta, you know, put this to rest. So I
told the fight attendant. And now he starts threatening everybody

(50:13):
that he's got a gun down below the plane and
go work. Can't possibly have a fucking gun right in
your suitcase, can't, now, you know, And this guy just
got out of fucking prison. There's no way. And sure enough,
so when we got off the plane, I had told
the fight attendant. I said, I don't give a shit.
What you do, you get, you get the cops at

(50:34):
that door, because this guy's threatening our lives. So the
cops nabbed him. No. Sooner he got through the door,
his girlfriend was there and she saw he was fucking
pissed and she kept saying, what's wrong, baby, what's wrong?
And he says, I want to kill these fuckers. So
the cops snapped them, snatched, snagged him. They opened up
his suitcase and sure enough he had a gun.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
I could have been a crazy situation.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
And road sad was he went after the one guy,
which was Ray that had nothing to do with it.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Did you ever have any issues with Sean backstage at all?
What happened with your son when you told Sean to
tell your son that.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
You beat him? Oh? Yeah, we worked in Rhode Island.
I brought my little boy with me, Paulli Junior, and
he watched the match like he always does. So I
came out into the hallway after the show, after the match,
and he's running down to meet me and he's crying,
and you know, he's upset, and he's just a little kid,
you know, And I was like, what's wrong, what's wrong?

(51:34):
And he's like, you got beat you know, they beat you.
And I'm like it's okay. You know. He's like no, no, no,
you know they beat you. And I said no, no, listen,
I let them beat me. And he's like, no, no, no,
you know. I said, listen, I'm telling you tomorrow, they're
gonna let me beat them. Tonight, I let them beat me.
So Sean was walking in the hallway and I said, Sean,

(51:55):
come over here, man. I said, you know, please tell
my son that I let you beat me. And he
goes no, and I said what He goes, no, I'm
not telling your son that. I said, listen, my kid's
all upset. You tell my son. And now my son
couldn't hear this because I put him down and stood
face to face with him. I said, you tell my

(52:16):
son that I let you beat me because we're working
again tomorrow. I don't make your fucking pay. You have
a choice. So he turned around. He goes, I let
your daddy, you know, I you know, he let me
beat him, and you know, blah blah blah blah blah.
Tomorrow you know he'll beat me. And now my son
calmed out. You know, I mean, really, fucking four year
old kid. It's a work, dude. And not only that,

(52:40):
you all ready to get your fucking ass handed to
you tomorrow night. You know, be grateful. And here's a
kid I stick up for. You know.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Now, you wouldn't Hirk. You got to work a little
bit with the Heart Foundation as well, because you're working
with Jim. Did Hirk have any problems with the Heart
Foundation at all? No heat? Everything was easy, easy, okay.
Why didn't Vince ever get behind the team Power Gloria
because it wasn't his idea.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
Because it wasn't his idea, never created it, he never
thought it would take off.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
Slick was managing you guys. I can't forget about Slick.
Memories of all.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
Working with Slick, one of the best mouthpieces in the business.
You know, Ray and I would do interviews and we
turned him and say, listen, we're out of ideas. He goes,
don't worry about it. I got this one and he
was just run and we'd be nodding and you know,
just chime in now and then. But and a real
nice guy.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
As far as the T shirts, what happened with that?
I understand that you went to Vince or the office
and said that you wanted to, you know, pretty much
front the money for this.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Yeah. Well, I grabbed Vince at a TV and I said, hey, Vince,
you know we don't have any T shirts out, you know,
And he says, yeah, yeah, you know, heels don't get
T shirts you know like that. And I said, well,
I really think they can sell. I said, you know.
He goes, well, you want to pay for him like
that to me? And I said, yeah, I'll bank wrong,
not a pro. So he goes you backross, Yeah, because

(54:03):
I think we'll sell a ton, I'll make a killing.
Hell yeah, you know, and uh, he goes, oh, let
me think about it. Let me think about it. And
that was the end of it. Never never happened.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
Do you feel that Pat broke your team up or
do you feel somebody.

Speaker 4 (54:16):
Else in the office Paul and Glory, Yeah, I never
had a thought on who did it, you know, And
at the end of the day, it didn't matter.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
Okay, members of working road warriers were they easy to
work with? Because we've done interviews, guys say they're they don't.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
Like to sell for some guys, let me get them,
let me get them correct. So Animal is the heavier one.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
Hawk was a lot of using animal to work with. Uh.
The match I had in the garden with the animal,
he was being, yes, difficult as far as not selling
a whole lot. I switched that match at the very
end because Vince wanted him to wrestle Hercules. And when

(55:06):
I got to the garden, I think a hawk was hurt.
And I got to the garden and they said, you know,
one of you guys is going to work with with animal.
And I'm like, you know, okay, you know, because I
figured that would be me. So Ray came back to
me and said, I'm working with Animal. I said, no,
you're not. And I said, because you know, because he
told me that animal is going over And I said,

(55:27):
nobody beats my big man. So I went to Vince
and I said, Vince, I said, you can't beat my
big man. If you beat Hercules, you killed the team,
you know, So you go. I said, I want to
work against you know Animal. So he said okay, fine,
so they switched.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
It was Vince very approachable for you.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
Yeah, you never intimidated, you just looked at him.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
No, I respected Vince. I mean he was my boss.
You know what, I mean, even though you know, you
couldn't believe half of what he said and throw the
other half out. But I guess you know, he's a snake.
He was a businessman, but he was probably worse than

(56:10):
most businessmen. But no I could approach him.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Did Vince ever party with the boys or associate after shows?
I've heard the one story where he went to one
of the Christmas parties Gaby and I think Hawk and
Animal put them up on the shoulders and our foundation.
I think the story right, somebody clothes lined them off
the top of somebody's shoulders.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
I heard that. Maybe it's true. I've never heard it. Yeah, no,
I mean, I you know, I may walk into a restaurant,
ray and I whatever, and you know Vince be behind us,
and you know he'd ask us to sit down with him.
As far as that goes. We've seen him in diners
after TV tapings and we'll have our own table and

(56:48):
he'll just go over to his table with his people, right,
you know, and do their thing.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
But yeah, well, okay, memories are working with Davy boy.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Smith British Bulldogs. Did you get a lot of fun? Huh?

Speaker 2 (57:02):
You got to work with Dyamite two.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
I think I worked with I think I worked with
the both of them in a small shell. Could be wrong,
but maybe it was in a like a Battle Royal
or some multiman tag team, some house show. But they're
easy to work with, you know the fun.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Did you ever see the evil side of Dynamite as
far as his riving?

Speaker 1 (57:28):
Absolutely, he was a king of ribs, I mean underneath
Fuji of course.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
What are some of the ribs that you might have
witnessed with Dynamite?

Speaker 1 (57:39):
I mean, you know, just simple things, pissing on people's
clothes and you know, cutting up somebody's suit that came in,
you know, and now a short sleep and it's shorts,
you know, things like that.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
But yeah, you had worked a little bit with Ricky Steve,
who would you know, some consider one of the greatest
workers in the business. You had mentioned on an interview
that he had an ego and he kind of called
him desperate. Why is that? You know?

Speaker 1 (58:08):
His was really crazy. I just never saw what people
white people said. He was like one of the best
workers and all that. Maybe it was before my time
when I got to meet this guy, you know what
I mean, mediocre body. He would hit somebody with his
whatever that thing is called, wasn't real. I mean, you know,

(58:32):
throw some punches, make it look like you knocket someone's
dick off. Yeah, just soft. Everything was soft. You know,
maybe he knew some mechanics. Okay, great, I get it.
And I had a match with him in the garden
and he was in the back and he said to me,
what do you want to do? So I said, I
don't know, dude, what do you want to do? I mean,
you're the veteran for the most part, you know. And

(58:54):
he said, well, can you take an arm drag off
the top rope? And I said, well, what do you mean.
You're like, you get a over to me and arm
dragged me. Yes, he's no. He goes, what I want
to do is like people know you're going to drop
kick and do shit like that, and cross body goes
jump like you're gonna give me a cross body and
I'll jump up and I'll arm drag you. And I'm like, okay,
I've never done it, but I'll give it a shot

(59:15):
in the garden, right, nice place the fuck up. So
then I said, okay, he goes, well, what do you
want to do? So I said something whatever, and he goes, okay,
So I do this for him and it comes off
without a hitch, and then all of a sudden, he's
driving me back to his corner to make the tag.
I'm like, well, dude, where's my spot? So you know

(59:38):
he's you're not doing it. So I'm like, you know what,
fuck this, That's not how it works with me. So
I snapped supplex them, and I heard when I tell you,
I heard his spine though. Oh I straightened him out,
you know. And a buddy of mine was at the
match and he goes, yo, you fucked him up on
that snap sup plex. I said, fuck him. I give

(59:58):
him a spot and he's supposed to give me one
and he's gonna tag out. Fuck you man, That's not
how it works. You need to show respect. So I
was always cordial to him, shake his hand, say hello.
You know his wife also all all respect. But as
far as trusted them, obviously.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
Not anything happened behind the scenes after that match.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
No, it was no. I mean we didn't have words
or anything like that, you know, I mean it was
it was fine.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
So you're talking about working MSG.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
What are some of your memories working MSG?

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
In my illustrious career with the WWF. In all those years,
I was booked except I think for once in Madison
Square Garden. Madison Square Garden and I wrestled in the
Silver Dome in Detroit, England, and their you know, hell,

(01:00:54):
I can't remember the name of that place. Was it no,
this state? Well, I don't know whatever, I know, yeah, whatever,
But anyway, there was nothing that beat the garden. Nothing. Man.
I got on such a high. You know, I had
to keep my dicks soft when I went into the
ring because I was just you couldn't touch me in
the garden. I was so amped up, as like I

(01:01:16):
took you know, forty cans of rocket fuel and you know,
I was just charged. It's just the way that it was.
You know. I get dumped my match, get into my car,
and I catch the rest of the matches on when
I got home because they were still on TV and
Storty TV on to watch MSG and I'm like, oh shit,
you know there's that match in this match. It sometimes
one matchime I do, but best place in the world

(01:01:37):
to wrestle, and I'm so glad they booked me. Like
I said, every show but one. I think I was
at the Garden.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
What happened between you and Ko? Kobe?

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Where really strange? Chicago, Illinois, Rosemont, Horizon. I'm sitting in
the locker room. He comes in and he says something
to me, and I'm like what And he said that
I said something about him and I really didn't. I mean,
i'd say it on tape, obviously, I don't bullshit. And

(01:02:08):
I'm like, like, what are you talking about? You know?
And he says you know. Again, he says something, and
all of a sudden he hits me, punches me in
the face. So I stood there and I went this
motherfucker just punched me in the face. All the boys
around or no, oh yeah, we're right in the locker room,
you know. So all of a sudden, I'm like, dude,

(01:02:30):
I don't want to fight you because in my mind,
I'm gonna get fired like this, he's on top. I'm
a fucking shit. Let me get fired. So Boom Boom
hits me with two more punches in the face, and
I'm like, listen, I told you I don't want to fight.
Now if I punch you in your face three times
and you stand there and tell me that, I'm gonna
shake your hand tell you I'm sorry, and get the

(01:02:51):
fuck away from you, because obviously I can't hurt you,
you know. But he's so fucked up on drugs. He
ain't thinking that way, he's not using his brain rationally.
So I'm like, well, fuck, I gotta do something here.
So I grab him, hook him around the head, and
I'm holding him like this. He starts biting me on

(01:03:13):
my side. So I'm standing there and I swear to God,
I'm this nonchalot. I'm like, this fucking guy's biting me.
He's fucking biting me. So I'm like, all right, I'll
bring him down to the floor, right, get better control.
As I go to bring him down, his head slips out,
so now I'm on my back. He's on top of me.

(01:03:36):
So I'm like, well, fuck this, this is not a
good situation. I gotta get him off me. So I
get him off me. I stand up. By this time,
I think Jack came in, the agent came in, Lensa
came in, and you know, I'm trying to get Jack
in between us. This fucking guy wants to fight me,
so I get him a quick bip and he stopped.

(01:03:58):
And now it's like, you know, get out of here here.
So he goes downstairs to his locker room. He had
his own room with the bird. So I'm sitting there
and Heenan comes over to me and he says, you
know what happened. I'm like, I don't fucking know. He
was why and can find them back? I said, cause
I get fucking fired. That's why. No, you won't to
say yeah I will, Bobby, I'll get fired. Man, It's

(01:04:20):
not worth it, you know what I mean. So he goes,
I'll back you. I'll back you up. I'll go to
the office and tell me he came in and start
with you. Blah blah blah. Say you're back me. He goes, yeah,
I'll back you. So I go downstairs and mind you now,
I ran with the people who ran Chicago, so if

(01:04:45):
something had to be done, it'll be easy. All joke
inside because my boys came in one night and Lanza
told me to tell them to leave. And I said, yeah,
you tell them to leave because they're your friends. I said,
that's right. And they built the Rose Mot they own
this place. I ain't telling him shit. You go tell

(01:05:05):
him no, that's okay. It could stay fucking right, it
could stay and they walked me out to the rink.
Who the fuck's gonna tell them though? You know? So
I went downstairs. I started banging on his door. Who
is it? I said, open the fucking door, man, fuck you.
I'll go to the office tomorrow straightened out. I said,
open the fucking door because I want to kick your
fucking ass. You know, fuck you. I said everything I

(01:05:29):
could to get him out of that fucking room, and
he won. Come so we get on we whatever, We
get on our plane, you know, blah blah blah door thing.
He's sitting in the back. I don't pay him the mine.
So then uh they get me at TV. Pat calls
me into a separate place. He goes, uh, so, uh
I heard you god in fight And I'm like, I

(01:05:52):
didn't get in a fight. So he looks like really
the funnel right, He's like, what do you mean to
get in a fight? He said, I didn't get in
a fight. See got a fight with Coco be ware,
No I didn't. He's what are you talking about? He goes,
you know, you and Coco where Coco be where? You know?
Started uh, you know, punching each other. I said, no, no,

(01:06:13):
no time out Coco beware punched me in my face
three times. I didn't fight him back, so there was
no fight. So I justn't know what the fuck today.
So he's standing there like, you know what you know? Pat, Well,
he didn't know what to do, and I said the
path too. I said, I didn't throw a punch, so

(01:06:33):
you can't fire me just like that to him and
he's like, okay, well, uh, you know, it's whatever answer
he fucking gave me, like just get ready to go
on TV or whatever the case may be. And that
was fine. So then, uh, I was on another flight.
Coco was in the back and I went to use
the pisser. I came walking back there and he goes, hey, man,
He goes, uh, You're like sorry about you know what happened?

(01:06:55):
And I said, dude, it's okay. Man. I said, you
can fucking hurt me anyway. And I walked in because
I wanted him to fire back at me because then
we were gonna throw it down, but he never did,
and I let it bowl over and that was the
end of it. Water the Bridge, Water under the Bridge.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
Memories of Craven and did you ever witness any of
his crazy behavior due to drugs.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
No carrier was polite, respectful guy, always liked him. I
never saw any crazy behavior on his part, you know,
I mean, as far as you know, was he did.
I see him like mellowed out or maybe a little
feeling good. Sure, but crazy, No, he was cool.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
Were your thoughts on the pissed test?

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
Was doing? Around this period of time?

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
Piece of cake to pass? You know, people waited for
me to come in and piss in the bottles for them.
You know, Hey, Roma, thank god you're here. You know,
we got a pissed test. You know, I hope you
got a piss I'm like, yeah, so I just give
everybody a little bit, just enough, everybody handing the pissing
they pass.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Who was the biggest badass? I guess in the w WF.
You know a lot of people say Hakku is pretty
much the toughest guy in the business.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
Would you agree to that, Yes, the nicest, one of
the nicest guys, family oriented guys, respect peaceful, just you know,
but as far as one of the most badass yeah,
I mean again, now let's take an era. What error
are you taking? Who are we you know, who are

(01:08:30):
we putting in those you know what I mean like
if you have Ken Petera in there with a Ku. Oh, well,
I don't know, you know what I mean? But I
know how Ku could fight? Can can fight? I don't know,
you know what I mean. I mean, I've never seen
him throw down. Did I see HAWKU throw it down? No?
But I seen how Ku throw some some punches and kicks,

(01:08:50):
So you know that makes a difference.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Was there anybody in w WF that you didn't get
a chance to wrestle as a tag team that you
really wish you could have worked with.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
No, I don't think so. I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
Were you there in the company when Chic and Dugan
had their uh indent?

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:09:07):
What was the.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
Vince came out and basically said that they're both done,
they'll never work again. And then a few months later,
when it blew over, Vince brought him back, and people
just when I tell you, if they had any respect
for Vince, it was gone after that, because that's all
they talked about in the locker room was you know,
oh yeah, hey, you guys are done, you'll never work

(01:09:32):
in this business again. Hey, look they're back, you know,
And that was the big joke in the locker room,
Vince was a joke.

Speaker 3 (01:09:38):
So I just asked you about the piss tests and
stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
As far as like the wellness policy back then, there
were there really was no wellness policy at all. Was
to me, f really adamant about enforcing or were they
pretty picky with with guys who they chose to take pess.

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
They brought the piss test about, and it was mostly
for to find out if you're on cocaine. That was
the big drug back then, cocaine, you know, yes, right,
So I was probably, to my knowledge, the only wrestler
that like they was scheduled for a pissed test. So

(01:10:19):
you walk in, you don't know who's going to be.
Could be you, could be me, could be them. You know.
I'm like, hey, you got a pissed est tonight, Joe,
Hey Bob, you got to pissed us tonight? Well, I
remember missing a pissed test, you know, Hey, Paul, you
got a pissed test tonight. Okay, I got it. I'm late.
I gotta get to the ring. You know, I really
don't have to piss right now? Can I do? When
I come back? Sure, no problem, come back, shower, dress, leave,
and then go, oh, fuck, I didn't take the piss test.

(01:10:41):
You know, I'm in trouble, and uh, you know, i'd
call Vince or you know, they obvious say hey, you
know I forgot the pist test. I'm sorry, you know,
and I was okay. They're okay with it because they knew.
I mean, you run the fucking business man. You know
who's doing coke, you know who's not doing anything, And
they knew I wasn't doing anything. I wasn't into drugs

(01:11:02):
and drinking.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
I was going to ask you, how did you manage
to avoid any major problems with drugs and alcoholic was
a lot of boys and eadies with road schedule being
as crazy as it was. I mean we did interview
with players about taking stuff to get up, going to sleep,
and you know, just being on the road with the
cocaine and the booze and zais and all that shit.
How did you manage to stay away from all that?

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
I just wasn't into, uh two drugs and drinking was
it my thing? And went downstairs to a party in
one of the boys rooms and Ray they dumped a
bunch of pills on the bed and he popped a
few in his mouth and he's like, come on, man.
And I was sitting there and he said to me,
come on, come on. I said, na, you know, I

(01:11:42):
don't take them bullshit, bullshit, you know you have to.
In other words, if one's guilty, we're all guilty, right,
if we all take them, right, none corret on anybody.
So Race stood up and he goes, hey, look man,
he goes, my partner doesn't do that shit. You know,
he's into pussy, you know, right, And that was it.
No one ever tried to push it on me again.

(01:12:03):
I'd go to the you know, the the bars or
clubs with them afterwards, maybe buy some one or two
guys who drink. I get my cranberry juice. Everybody nobody know.
You know it's cranberry juice. You know, Hey, Paul, can
I get you drink? Now? I'm good? Thanks, giv me
a cranry juice. Whatever. But that was it. Everybody knew
where I was coming from. It was all good.

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
What led you to leave?

Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
We were in we were in France, and they split
Ray and myself up put us in single matches at
the end. So I went to Pat and I said, hey, Pat,
what's going on you know, we're not wrestling together, you know,
you break and stuff, what's going on. And it's like, oh,
you don't have to worry. You don't have to worry.
You know, we're going to give you a push. And
I'm like, well, what about Ray, I don't have to worry,

(01:12:49):
you know. And he's like, oh, we'll take care of him.
And I'm like, yeah, that doesn't that's not tell me anything.
That's not good enough. So he says no, no, he'll
be okay. I'm like, yeah, fuck this. So I said
I'm done. I quit and he goes, what I said,
I quit, Well, think about it, Leo, finish the tour,
going home, think about it. I said, nothing, think about

(01:13:12):
I'm fucking done, man, you know. So I went to
the office subvents and I told him I was done.
And he got all steamed when I told him that.
I said, you know, I almost lost my arm for
you in the mania. I said, these guys today get
a hang nail and they got to take time off.

(01:13:33):
I said, we're the blood and guts of this organization,
the teams that you have now, the people here. I said,
you just never took care of us. You never took
care of me, and you could actually see.

Speaker 5 (01:13:43):
His collar open up, man, and this like heat rise
out and he blew up at me, you know where
he starts barking at me, and I basically barked right
the fuck back at him, you know, like, who the
fuck are you?

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
Hey, I don't plan on staying here, and b I'm
telling you the fucking and you can't handle it. And
then that was it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
Out I went, did you think you had that attitude
because you weren't from the business, and you weren't a
mark for the business, so you weren't a mark for
Vince and being because of that, you were able to,
you know, not take anybody's shit and you weren't really controlled.

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
I think a lot of that had to do that.
That had a lot to do with it, But I
think also was my upbringing. You know. My father said,
you know, you never kiss anybody's ass. You could always
find a job, and if you can't, your family take
care of you. Do you always have a place to go,
So he goes, you don't kiss anybody's ass, And that
was that stuck with me my entire life. You know,

(01:14:36):
I was brought up, you know, just hardcore respect, respect, respect,
you know, what I mean. And that was it. So
I demand respect. I'm not asking you for it you,
I'm demanding it from you, so you know. And Rady
said something really really that hit home one day. He said,

(01:14:57):
people have to take the time. You know, they don't
know you. You know, I know you. He goes, like,
when I first met you couldn't stand you. Man, I
want to cut your throat. He goes, look, you're a
great fucking guy, you know, and you know hugged me.
I love you, man, you know. And I said to Ray,
I said, if people would take the time to get
to know me, you know, see how real I am,

(01:15:19):
then they'd like me or they wouldn't, you know. But
if they can't take the time, fuck them. They ain't
worked my time. And he got it, and he got
on board with it. And you know what, he was
good with me because he understood that. You know what, Paul,
You're right, fuck them. If they don't like you, they
don't know you. And if they don't want to know you,

(01:15:39):
fuck them. That was the way it was.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
You mentioned earlier about your injury, which I believe was
around media seven with your arm. Yes, and the match
was what was the circumstances.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
Well, let's see, Ray blew his uh tours crowing a
couple of nights before he retore it. The night before
the Mania, I had hurt my elbow. Can't remember how.
And I went to the hospital in LA that day
and got to wrestle Mania a couple hours before the

(01:16:14):
show started. And the doctor said to me, it looked
like I'd been smashing concrete walls with my elbow, he said,
So I said, well, I got to wrestle tonight. He goes,
if you hit the elbow, you could lose your arm.
I'm like, you shit me right, and he goes, no, fuck, okay, fine, thanks,
So I leave. So I had my arm in a

(01:16:35):
sling when I got there. Vince was in a meeting.
I knocked on the door. I said, he saw my
arm and he goes, oh shit. He goes like this
to me. So he comes out. So I tell him
what the doctor said. He goes, I really need you
to do this. I said, well, you know, rageous retor
is growing. I mean he came to walk, he could
actually run, but he can't walk, you know. So I said,

(01:16:57):
and you know, if I hit my elbow, blah blah blah.
He goes, you gotta do it, I said, And if
I lose Marble, who's the fuck's gonna take care of
my family? Vince? He goes, you don't have to ask
that question. You know, I'll take care of your family
like that to me. So I went, Okay. I grew
up with a dad who was worth, was harder than steel,

(01:17:18):
So I believe this fucking guy, right. So I go out.
I buy one of those you know almost like uh yeah,
well it was a hard cover, right, I mean pat
on the inside, hardcover on the outside, strapped it up,
taped it up, did everything I could. Vince says, Okay,
start making all the matches run longer, and we're gonna

(01:17:38):
cut your twenty minute match down. So now Vince gets
it down to like two minutes, you know what I mean,
or three minutes from time. We walk in to time,
we get beat to time and get back. So I'm like, okay, great,
So we get out there quick start, you know, hot start.
They get me up on their shoulders, they do the thing,
and I do everything I cannot to hit my elbow.

(01:17:58):
Get back in the locker room. They take the pad off.
They took something like thirty three CC's out of my elbow.
Doctor said, I I've never even taken that out of
a knee and took it out of your elbow, you know, so,
but that was it, you know, healed. Happy days. Thanks
for it. There's my thanks. That's Vince. It is a

(01:18:20):
nature of the business, you know. I'm the full.

Speaker 2 (01:18:22):
Before moving to WCW, which we're gonna do in a
couple of seconds, I forgot to talk about one of
the big matches you guys had, which was Summer Slam.
I believe ninety you worked with the Rockers. It was
in Philly and the crowd heat was amazing, and it
was great you guys. I think you guys went over right.
Maybe we did.

Speaker 3 (01:18:35):
Yeah, what are you members.

Speaker 2 (01:18:36):
Of that match?

Speaker 1 (01:18:38):
We knew Sean blew his knee out the night before
or two nights before, so we're gonna jump him on
the way in, and so Ray did. Ray jumped them,
blindsided him, worked on his knee. We worked the entire
match with Marty, which was just an incredible match. USA
Today pitted as the best match of the night. And yeah,

(01:19:03):
what more can I say? Man? I mean, just rave reviews.
It was awesome. It was awesome. It was awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):
How did you wind up in w CW?

Speaker 1 (01:19:15):
Became partners in World Gym, worked out and understanding with
my other two partners that I wasn't going back to wrestling,
so we signed a little deal. We took this gym
that was going under and UH brought it back to
life and then when you know, it was up and running,

(01:19:37):
you know, making money. So I said to Uh. I
was watching TV and I had flipped through the channels
and wrestling was on and I saw some Jabroni's wrestling
and I went, that's where I belong, you know, fuck
the Jim, That's where I belong. So I called w
c W and what's her name? Yes, yeah, Lawyer left

(01:20:03):
the message with her, and then I think I called
I may call one more time, and then I got
a call back and they said, uh, we want to
bring you in. I said okay, great, and they said, uh,
we want to make you a horseman. I said okay great,

(01:20:24):
and they're like, and this is what we're going to
pay you. And I said, okay, great. I don't think
you understand. We're going to bring you in as a
horseman and this is what we're going to pay you,
and I'm like, okay, right, and they're like you're okay
with that? And I'm like, man, I'm good with it. Okay,
Well all right, Well we'll send you, like all the information,

(01:20:46):
we'll contact you, send you a ticket, get you down here,
you know, the whole sha band, Okay, you know, I
mean in their mind they were sticking me, you know, cheap, cheap.
In my mind, I knew where I well, I believe
I knew where it was going, and I was absolutely right.
So again they brought me in and the rest is

(01:21:09):
written in stone.

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
What were your initial impressions about Eric Bischoff?

Speaker 1 (01:21:19):
Nice guy, looking to make his the business thrive, you know,
compete with Vince, unsure of what he was doing, and
not sharp, really sharp about the business. More of a
mark than you know of an educated, you know guy.

Speaker 2 (01:21:45):
A lot of people say that, you know, obviously Hogan
was in his ear, and Hogan was the real one
running the company.

Speaker 3 (01:21:50):
Would you agree with.

Speaker 1 (01:21:51):
That Hogan was only in his ear? Hogan came in
after me, and Bischoff had said I'm thinking about bringing
Hogan in, and I said, I think that's a bad move.
I don't know he could really make the business. I said,
I'm just telling you, I'm giving you my opinion. It's
a bad move. So, yes, Hogan ran the business for Bishoff.

Speaker 2 (01:22:14):
Were you nervous?

Speaker 1 (01:22:14):
Oh? Wait? And Flair? Flair was the key master and
you know and Hogan, you know, held one of the keys.

Speaker 2 (01:22:24):
Were you nervous about becoming one of the horsemen? Obviously
you didn't really follow the business, so you didn't really know.

Speaker 1 (01:22:29):
Their Well, no, no I didn't. I didn't know. I
knew of them. You know, people talked about them. Should
I have done my homework? Yeah, probably see what they're
all about. But you know, I think I don't think
it went over really big in Georgia, you know, mid South,
because I came from the WWF. I wasn't a you know,

(01:22:53):
top car to bottom card or however you want to
say it. And but they wanted somebody that, as they
put to me, looked great and could put women in
their seats. That's what they wanted, so they brought me in.
I didn't know that the horsemen were these kind of

(01:23:14):
like badasses, you know what I mean, right, So you
know it took me a little bit once I started
working with them in the ring. You know, Hey, Flair
would say me, hey, we don't do things like that. Okay,
you know, maybe you should pull me aside and tell
me we do a you know, a through e and
we don't do the rest of this shit. You know

(01:23:36):
that may have helped a little bit in the beginning,
or wrong, you know, trying to get my partner up,
you know, like, you know, come on, man, come on,
you know we don't do that. You could bang on
the turnbuckle. Okay, I get it.

Speaker 3 (01:23:50):
And the horsemen wore baby faces at the time.

Speaker 1 (01:23:53):
Yeah they were baby faces.

Speaker 2 (01:23:55):
So did Rick Flair and arn Anderson welcome you as
you know a nice edition, or or behind the scenes
were like, why did you put.

Speaker 1 (01:24:02):
Us with Paul? I could tell you what I think.
I know. I think in the beginning they were not
happy with it because you know, I spoke to Olie
and always sat me down and I listen. He goes,
I don't know anything about you. People say you could work.
I don't know. I've never seen you. So I'm sitting

(01:24:23):
there going okay, like, okay, like you don't you know,
you don't go get a fucking running back if you
don't know how he fucking runs. You know what I mean,
so either you're jerking my dick or you're a fucking
idiot because you didn't do your homework. You don't bring
somebody in like that, you know, you know, but you

(01:24:44):
know this one tells me this, and you know, but
I don't know. And they, you know, they said that.
You know, you know, you're a good looking guy and
we're trying to put women in our seeds. But yeah,
that's their opinion, you know whatever. You know what I
mean when it comes to flip, his intro for me
was just off the chain. It was just phenomenal. You know.

(01:25:07):
I think everything was okay until I started showing up
at places where he.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
Was he took his girls.

Speaker 1 (01:25:17):
Was just I took some of his shine away. You know,
he had you know, he had to woo. I didn't
need to woo, you know what I mean. They wooed
for me. That's what it is, you know, It's how
it was. I'd have to get on a table and
dance and everybody looked at me. I just walked in
the fucking room and commanded attention. It's just the way

(01:25:41):
that it was. It was my presence. It's what I
you know, how I carried myself. So do I think
he started to get jealous? Yeah, I think he started
to get jealous. You know, all of a sudden, they're
putting me an order together and they switched me on
arm that fast? Did me an armed? You know? Looked
good together? Hell? No, we didn't look good to other.

(01:26:01):
You know, we had two different bodies, not even remotely
close now me an Orangdorf complimented one another, you know
what I mean, we had the bodies. I get it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
So what was Ripple like outside the ring? You've been
pretty open about your feelings on his lifestyle.

Speaker 1 (01:26:17):
I'd like to have a good time.

Speaker 2 (01:26:20):
Now. Were you aware of all the smart marks or
the Internet fans, you know, saying, oh, you know, Paul
Room is a horseman. It's a joke, it's the worst
idea at all. Or did you pretty much not know
what was going on and the sheets and I didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:26:31):
I didn't really know what was going on until fuck
maybe after I wasn't a horseman. That's really when I started.
They hear that, you know, people saying hey, you know this,
that and the other thing, And I'm like, wokis the
fucking right? As long as you're getting well, Yeah, but

(01:26:52):
it ain't even so much that you know. I mean, listen,
you want your fans? Do you want people to like you?
You know, because you gain something I gave for X
amount of years. What Paul Roma gives every time he
steps in that ring, that's what I gave him. Now,
you may not agree with me. It may It may
make you feel better about yourself to knock me, and

(01:27:15):
that's fine. Whatever gets you up the next day and
get you through that day, that's fine. I know one
thing I've run it, whether they're full of shit or not.
I've run into enough people, and I like to say
that we're fans, but I ran into enough people that
have paid me enough compliments to know that my job

(01:27:38):
was done.

Speaker 3 (01:27:39):
What was arn Anderson like to work with?

Speaker 1 (01:27:41):
He was easy to work with.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
Is there no problems outside during or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
You got to work a little bit with Steve Austin
and Stephen Regal, did you Did you see the potential
in Steve Austin?

Speaker 1 (01:27:53):
Yes, Steve. We we told Steve to go to WWF
and he's like, what is it? Go to WWF, dude,
They'll make a superstar out of you overnight. And next
thing you know, we end up going so that was
pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (01:28:10):
What are your memories of the young Triple h in
WCW in the early nineties.

Speaker 1 (01:28:15):
He came in worked with me. They said, you know,
teach him, we want him to learn from you. And
he was a bit of a joker, you know in
the ring, which was fine, nice guy, and then I
started hearing things as far as him knocking me, and

(01:28:37):
I'm like, wow, here's this dude that they wanted me
to help, And all of a sudden he starts to
get a little bit of a push and he's knocking
me during an interview, like, you know, if you didn't
take it in your ass, you know, yeah, you married
the boss's daughter. I get that something's not right there

(01:29:00):
that I think we could all agree with. Okay, but
at the end of the day, you're not a great
fucking worker. Okay, you're not the ultimate warrior jumping up
on the ropes. You're not Hope fucking Hogan. Okay, You'll
never be as big as any of them or Savage. Okay,
you could write yourself into every WrestleMania every year, every

(01:29:25):
six months, you're in another thing. But at the end
of the fucking day, you are who you are, and
you'll never be any of those guys. Put your posters
up everywhere, hang banners everywhere, you know, spend a lot
of money to promote you, but you're still never going
to be a draw like them because you just don't

(01:29:45):
have it like they do, you know what I mean.
Somebody had something about them, Savage Warrior, Hogan. You don't
have any of those attributes. They're not there. You just
you know, a guy.

Speaker 3 (01:30:03):
What are your thoughts?

Speaker 2 (01:30:03):
I don't know. If you saw the Horsemen DVD that
came out and Hunter went on and he talked about you.

Speaker 3 (01:30:08):
He said that really the job guy from WWE.

Speaker 1 (01:30:12):
Right, another good point, you know what I mean? I
did three hour interview for the Horseman video. They pumped
me up about you know, these guys said bad things
about you. What are you gonna say? My god, I'm
just gonna say the lah. Yeah. But then they said
this about you, and you know, what are you gonna say?
You know, like they want to get me charge up,

(01:30:33):
you know, make it controversial, say okay, I get it now,
you know. And so I went out there and caught
a three hour interview and they used like thirty seconds. Yeah,
you know, nothing of what I said, So that was
horseshit in and of itself, and for triple h to
you know, to come out at the end of the day,

(01:30:55):
what is he famous for? Tell me what is he
famous for? All the then what he made up? What
is he famous for? Is he a true athlete? Because
let's see, I can wrestle, I can fight, I could
play baseball, I could play basketball, I could play football,

(01:31:17):
I could bodybuild. What the fuck can he do other
than go in the ring Marror the Big Boss's daughter
to make sure he stays in a good position, because
right before that, I think, wasn't he fucking China? Okay,
so you figure this one out. Okay, you figure it

(01:31:38):
out because I can't figure it out. And what I
didn't give a fuck? Good for him, have a happy
fucking life. But at the end of the day, if
you're talking down about me, that must mean I'm still
a thorn in your ass, So go fuck yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:31:53):
What are your memberies of working with the Nasty.

Speaker 1 (01:31:54):
Boys, harsh tag team in the world to work with? Oh,
they're so clumsy, God love them, They're so clumsy.

Speaker 2 (01:32:04):
Any problems with Brian and Jerry at all? As far
as outside the ring because sometimes they're a little bit stiff.

Speaker 1 (01:32:09):
And no, no, no, I didn't like their style. I
mean I could work stiff. I I there's there's differences
in working stiff and being clumsy, you know what I mean.
You know, when they're throwing punches at you, you're literally
covering up so you're not gonna get hit, as opposed
to covering up knowing that you're they're going to protect you.

(01:32:29):
A lot of potatoes, a lot of potatoes. Either hit
you with a boot, you got, you got, fucking hit man.
And I know that Ray went at it with SAgs
overseas once, but you know, nothing ever came of it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:47):
When when Ray passed, how did that affect you?

Speaker 1 (01:32:53):
I lost my brother. I mean I I go to
the gym and and we still train together. We do.
You know. It's funny. Some of the couple of the
guys that I work with, they asked me to help him,
and I help them. And while we're helping them, I

(01:33:14):
always wear my headphones. I have my own music. I
do my thing, and while I'm doing a set, one
of the guys when we got back to work, he said, Hey,
that kid in the gym asked if you were okay,
and I'm like why he goes because you have saying
you know, this one's for you, Ray, And he goes, Hey,
who's your guy talking to And You're like, listen, man,
you'll never understand. He's talking to his body, you know.

(01:33:35):
And Ray will always be in my heart until my
mind goes and he'll always be there.

Speaker 2 (01:33:44):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:33:44):
He was. He was the greatest person in the world
that I ever met, that I ever loved. Yeah, I
just every day there's not I play guns n' roses
in his honor in my car. I'll be driving a

(01:34:05):
golf course in the morning and popping and I'll be like,
great it is for you, man, you know, and crank
that shit. You know. He loved Morrison, and you know,
I just yeah, man, Now a day goes by.

Speaker 2 (01:34:19):
Whose death in the business has really affected you the most?
Would we raised?

Speaker 1 (01:34:22):
Yeah? Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
Now you got teamed up with back to w CW
without Paul Oldorf. Memories of the teaming with Paul in
w CW.

Speaker 1 (01:34:32):
Did you like that idea or I love the idea?
When he when Paul came up and said, I think
they're going to break you guys up and put you
and me together. I was fuckingstatic. I thought it was great,
and I came up with pretty wonderful and he was
blown away. He's like what I said, pretty me you wonderful?

(01:34:53):
He was old man, and we ran to the the
Bischoff and and somebody else and told him we came
up with the name. So it was cool.

Speaker 2 (01:35:01):
Did you get along with Jody Hamilton?

Speaker 1 (01:35:05):
Yeah? I thought Joy was a super nice guy.

Speaker 2 (01:35:08):
Okay. Memories of working with Marcus Bagwell and a too
cold Scorpio, too.

Speaker 1 (01:35:12):
Gold great Marcus Bagwell sucker?

Speaker 2 (01:35:15):
Why is that?

Speaker 1 (01:35:16):
He just never listened to anything. I want to do
his own thing. Even Orndorf couldn't tolerate him. But I
guess he his family knew somebody in the office and
they were That's why he was where he was.

Speaker 2 (01:35:29):
Memories of working on Kevin Sullivan and uh Nick Foley
catches Jack back then.

Speaker 1 (01:35:35):
Kevin Sullivan tough, very difficult and cat this cat cat
this Jack easy.

Speaker 2 (01:35:46):
I read an interview where you had talked about make
a little bit. You said he's a great worker, but
he was just you know, he got over because it
was a bump taking. Do you still stand by.

Speaker 1 (01:35:53):
That or yeah? Who else throws himself off a cage
into a table when you don't have to. Your ability
is in the ring. When you start adding gimmicks, then
it means that you know you're at a loss. You know,
how do I bring the crowd back? What do I

(01:36:15):
do next to keep them entertained? Because my ability to
work isn't getting it done. That's how I view it.
So maybe that's why I never had a steel cage
may that's never why I had a ladder match, why
I never had a what is it a bob wire match?
You know, it's all bullshit.

Speaker 2 (01:36:32):
Man. What happened with you and Alex Wright at Super Brawl.

Speaker 1 (01:36:37):
Piece of Cake? Alex Wright and I? They said they
want to do an angle as far as you know,
who's prettier? You know? So I came out, I'm pretty
in this kid. What are you guys talking about? Blah
blah blah. The agreement that I had with W CW
was that, and especially Rick Flair, was that I would

(01:37:00):
go around with him, teach him, get him better, because
he's gonna be the next Hokogan.

Speaker 2 (01:37:05):
That's what they said to you, that he was going
to be the next.

Speaker 1 (01:37:08):
Correct correct and put him over and that's fine, but
if we do a pay per view, I'm not doing
a job on pay per view for him. And Rick said,
not a problem, that's not gonna happen. I said, okay, great,
let's do it. So I did.

Speaker 2 (01:37:24):
Why did you not want to do the job for
a pay per view just because you were in the
business along.

Speaker 1 (01:37:28):
He's a fucking jabberni, you know what I mean. At
the end of the day, you know you could, you
could do theatrics. Great, you can't work. That's why they
want you to go around with me and get better,
and you constantly blow up because you can't hold it.
So you know, why should I do a job for
this dude?

Speaker 2 (01:37:47):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:37:49):
So I get to pay per view, I'm wrestling Alex. Right,
I go to Rick, what do you want to do?
How do you want to go into the finish? They
want him over? My excuse me that they want him over.
I'm like, so, but I we had an agreement. He goes, well,
it's been changed. Okay, motherfucker, not a problem. This is
live pay per view. That means you can't edit it,

(01:38:12):
no worries. So got out in the ring. I a
million him for twenty minutes, try to give him a
Spoty fucked that up and uh kicked out on two
and a half.

Speaker 2 (01:38:24):
Right now, what did you think was gonna happen when
you went back to the locker room?

Speaker 1 (01:38:27):
I mean, did I didn't give a fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:38:29):
I was gonna ask you, did you not care if
you were gonna get fired or whatnot?

Speaker 1 (01:38:32):
I didn't give a fuck. I was protecting me, I
was protecting who I was as probably the highest I've
ever jumped off the top rope and dropped an elbow.
I mean I could have had I could have had
a sandwich on the way down, because as I was
coming down, I was like, God, damn, you're fucking up here, dude,
you know, and naturally I'm not gonna cover him. I'm

(01:38:54):
gonna run around the ring. I know the announcers are
gonna say what is he doing? What is he doing?
And then I pulled him up instead of pinning them,
because I you know, we got to get to the finish. Yeah.
Then I got a call from Flair, you know, tell
me the match wasn't good. I said, well, that's your opinion,
because everybody I talked to said it was a great
fucking match. Well, that's your opinion. I said, no, it's

(01:39:15):
everybody's opinion, you know. And uh, I get a letter
FedEx to me saying we no longer need your services,
thank you very much. You know. That's fine. So I
called Europe and they wanted me to go out there
for six months and work and I said no. They said,
well then we don't need you, and I said that's fine.

(01:39:36):
You got my number, hang up, and I don't know.
I always say two days, one by it is probably
longer than that. But they called me back and they
said we want to bring me over under your under
your rules, you know your terms. So I was like, okay, great.
So I went out there and packed the house man

(01:39:57):
and the guys are like, man, you're coming back, and
I'm like, why is that? Because no one sells out?
We had the Warrior here, we had Virgil here, no
one this is in Germany on their auto vans. And
they said nobody sold his place out and I'm like, oh, great,
that's a good sign. And sure enough they said, brought
me the lot. They said we want to bring you back,

(01:40:18):
we want to drop the belt to you. And I
said fine, came back, sold out again, brought me back
again standing in the room only. So then I got
off the plane. On that last flight, I got off
the plane and said, I'm done.

Speaker 2 (01:40:36):
Here's a really good question for you. We started the
interview off where you said that you want a wrestling
fan growing up. Now you're in the business for over
a decade. Do you think the boys looked at you
as a guy just collecting a paycheck or did you
develop a passion for the business at this point in time.
Were you now a fan of the business or were
we just in this business for a paycheck around this
period of time.

Speaker 1 (01:40:56):
No, I don't think I was ever in the business
for a paycheck. I think everything that I do in
my life, like I sell technology, you know, I'm not.
I'm not in it for a paycheck. Yes, I want
to get paid, don't get me wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:41:10):
Did you have a passion for it?

Speaker 1 (01:41:12):
Yes, the passion to be the best. And then when
you know power and glory, we fell in love, man,
and my passion just skyrocketed after that. I mean you
talk about striving, Yeah, I strived for three years. Letting
you know, these other people go over on me and

(01:41:34):
I actually closed my eyes my first matches. I had
to lay on my back and get.

Speaker 2 (01:41:37):
Beat even though it's work. You just took pride.

Speaker 1 (01:41:41):
When they told me you had to get beat and
I laid on my back. I closed my eyes till
they counted the three because I never had to lose
anything ever in my life. You had to fucking beat me,
and this was all new to me, you know. So
it was playball. That was it.

Speaker 2 (01:41:59):
After w C DOT, did you look back and say, wow,
there was a lot of politics in that company.

Speaker 1 (01:42:06):
I saw it with Vince and I saw it in WCW.
So yeah, I never went back. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:42:12):
It was in the moment you went back. I believed
the WF Maybe in ninety seven you were a student
of mister Fuji. They did the gimmick where you had
a brother Alex Roma, you had a dark match whatnot,
supposedly did really good. Why did they never call you back?
You just don't know or this.

Speaker 1 (01:42:28):
Was really crazy about that, and to this day I'll
never know. They said, we'll give you a couple of
matches because you know, we figured he's going to be nervous. Okay, great,
So we did one in Long Island and one right
in New Haven, Connecticut, which was great. Our backyard and
some Alex. First of all, Alex is not my brother, right, okay,

(01:42:50):
But Alex carried a chip as raided and he said
to me one day, you know, like, I can't believe
you didn't take the deal. And I said, what deal?
And he said, well, WWF called you and made you
an offer for our tag team and you told him no,

(01:43:11):
you wanted more. And I said, dude, they never called
me and made me an offer. I said, first of all,
Vince doesn't even work like that, you know what I mean,
right right? And uh, he goes it in. I said no,
I said, this has been fucking bothering you for how
many years now? He goes, well, oh, you know, I

(01:43:33):
didn't want to say anything, but I'm like, are you
fucking kidding me? It's never made me And I think
the offer was like I don't know, I don't know
if it was one hundred and something two hundred and
something thousand, And I'm like, don't you think I would
have taken that to get you into the business and
then do our thing for a short time and then
I bail out and you're on You're fucking.

Speaker 2 (01:43:54):
Home, all right, right?

Speaker 1 (01:43:57):
So no, there was never an offer made.

Speaker 2 (01:44:01):
After you left the business, you started up a rustling
school in Connecticut. Talk about that open three schools.

Speaker 1 (01:44:09):
So I had Massachusetts and then I had Connecticut. Nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:44:16):
PJ was a just incredible was there?

Speaker 2 (01:44:18):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:44:18):
Yeah? I had some good students come through. And then again,
you're only as good as Vince promote you or the
organization promote you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:44:29):
Do you follow ten ago? Do you watch your product all?

Speaker 1 (01:44:32):
Once in a while, I'll be a channel surfing and
I'll see it, and honestly, I'll joking aside, I could
stomach it for about thirteen seconds.

Speaker 2 (01:44:41):
You're like everybody else, nobody watches it.

Speaker 1 (01:44:44):
And I don't understand why they keep letting the same
people fuck up their program. They just got to get
the right people in there and right for them and
just try them, try them out. You got nothing to
lose because right now you're not scoring anything.

Speaker 2 (01:44:58):
Do you stay close to a lot of the boys
in the business. Are you friends with anybody.

Speaker 1 (01:45:02):
In the business. I'm friends with people that I see
it at shows like this, and this is the third
one in about ten years that I've done. So there
are people that I'm you know, I really do like,
you know, like Petera and Nikolai and you know, you
see all these guys and now I can't name them all,

(01:45:23):
but you know, you see all these guys and yeah,
there's some guys that are you know, you love them
on the road and you know they're still cool with you.

Speaker 3 (01:45:31):
We talked earlier on about some locker room flights.

Speaker 2 (01:45:33):
Were you there for the Dynamite Kid flight? No, okay,
you weren't there, wasn't there. What are your thoughts on
the passing of Miss Elizabeth tragic?

Speaker 1 (01:45:44):
Anybody that I know that passes away For the most part,
A it's sad. I feel bad for their family, you know.
Does it affect me? Not directly, you know, but again
you know that obviously they have a family. And you know.

Speaker 3 (01:46:04):
You had a theory on the passing of Lewis Specoli.

Speaker 1 (01:46:07):
Yes, what is that theory? I think U s. Paccoli
was out celebrating his initiations, last contract into the business,
and I think the guys that he hung out with
gave him a bunch of drugs unbeknown to him, and
he oded not on his own, with the help of others.

(01:46:28):
I don't know why I was never investigated. I tried
to get investigated because I thought Spaccoley was a hell
of a kid, yep, and it's you know, he let
me know that he just signed at the time, and
he was the happiest guy in the world. And then
I think two days later after I spoke to him,
he was dead and I'm like, now, this can't be
fucking true. Guy just talked to the kid man, you know,

(01:46:51):
and they said, yeah, oded or something like that. And
so they need to go back to the motherfuckers and
I used that term, and I don't even know who
they are that he hung out with that night, and
they need to find out. Just break them, make him
crack man. If there's more than one, someone's going to
give the other one up.

Speaker 2 (01:47:09):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:47:10):
The truth to come out. It always does. And if
I'm wrong, then I apologize to the guys I call motherfuckers.

Speaker 2 (01:47:17):
What are your thoughts on the trial with doctor Zurian.

Speaker 1 (01:47:22):
Back in the day, No thoughts, Really, it happened, right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:47:31):
What is the biggest misconception about Paul Roman?

Speaker 1 (01:47:37):
Probably that I'm stuck on myself. I'm all about me,
conceded er again, all that stuff, you know what I mean?
But again, the people took the time to find out
who in one I'm really all about. I mean, do
people know that I was a spokesperson for a Saint

(01:47:57):
Jude foundation, you know, kids for cancer? Do they know
that I went to these hospitals and talk to these
little kids try to be you know, man up and
be you know fake. Really, you know, what do you
say to a kid who's dying? Hey, how you doing today?
I wait for every kid to turn to me and go,
what the fuck do you think? You know what I mean?

(01:48:19):
I'm fucking dying here right? But you know what, you
had to play it, man. You had to make them
feel good about tomorrow. And I touch enough people out
there as far as doing the right thing like that.
I've helped enough people financially that needed it and people

(01:48:41):
I don't even know that well, So you know what,
at the end of the day, I don't give a
fuck what they think about me. G O. D is
the only guy that I need to worry about. He
has final say.

Speaker 2 (01:48:53):
What are your thoughts on the business today? As far
as guys like Kevin Dunn, who's AWE TV producer and
he's got a lot of power in w how do
you feel about him being able to make or break
a guy's career, and were the TV people that influential
back in your time.

Speaker 1 (01:49:08):
I think the writers that wrote the magazines were more
influential back in my day. You know, Vince was the
man who said, we're gonna make this guy, you know,
go to the top, and we're gonna make this guy
go to the bottom or middle, whatever the case may be.
I don't know anything about this guy Done from the

(01:49:31):
very short, very few times that I channel served and
saw w W. Like, you know, if I saw the
Rock come on, I like the Rock. You know, if
I saw Steve Austin, I'd stop because you know, I
think Steve's great, you know what I mean, And I
want to see Steve for him, you know, I want
to respect him and watch what he's gonna do. And

(01:49:52):
you know, anybody else it's all shit. So I don't
know if this guy Done is doing. But I guess
they're making money. Is they're still doing what they're doing.
Could they do it better? Of course they could. Can
they have a better school to train these guys at
of course they can't teach them psychology obviously. Wherever they're going,
they have no thoughts on what psychology is they just

(01:50:14):
go out there and they do high spots and you know,
that's it done. Wash your hands of it.

Speaker 2 (01:50:19):
That's the business as chief, right.

Speaker 1 (01:50:22):
So maybe my way of thinking is dead and now
his way of thinking is the way to go. So
you know what good for him?

Speaker 2 (01:50:31):
What are your thoughts on the Chris Benwild tragedy?

Speaker 3 (01:50:33):
And did you know Chris at all?

Speaker 1 (01:50:34):
I knew Chris when I came into WCW the very
first day. I went into the hotel and Chris was
there and he said, Hey, who are you traveling with?
And I said, I don't know. Man. He goes, you
could ride with me, and I was like, wow, what
a guy. Right, welcome me in with open arms. When
I found out what happened. Well, when I heard he

(01:50:55):
had passed away, all I said was, you know, I was,
you know, sad that happened. I felt very bad. Then
I found out what he had done, I said, wow,
you know he's a great guy. People were asking me
about the work. I said, great guy, you know, bup up,
up up up. And then I found out what he
did and I was like, I was wrong, and they

(01:51:16):
went what I said, I was wrong? I mean, he
lost it he wasn't a great guy. I mean, you
take your son's life, you know. I mean this may
sound pretty fucked up on my side. You shouldn't take
anybody's life unless they've done something, you know, really bad,
especially like to one of your family members. You kill

(01:51:37):
your wife, I get it, you're pissed at her, she
cheated on you, whatever the case may be. I get it.
But a little kid. There's nothing that little boy could
have done or a little girl could have done to
make you want to murder them. Nothing. So for that
point I have a different thought about him though.

Speaker 3 (01:51:55):
Did you buy into the whole concussion syndrome?

Speaker 1 (01:51:59):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:52:00):
Do you think it was a heated debates between Nancy
and Chris and that's what they exploded?

Speaker 1 (01:52:04):
No. I think, like most of these guys that have
passed away, I think it was a combination of drugs
that set him over the edge. You know, concussion. I mean,
I've had a couple. Where do you get the concussions from?
They show him flying off the rope and hitting the
guy with a head butt. He's not hitting the fucking

(01:52:25):
guy with a head But what the fuck are we
talking about here? So what do we tell me? What
are we talking about I get punching the face, but
I'm not getting punched in the face. Yeah, once in
a while, someone's gonna slip, I get it. So is
that what they want? Because that's the way they're going
in today's day and age. They get more money to

(01:52:47):
check on concussions like the NFL. Who the fuck was?

Speaker 2 (01:52:51):
Do you still go to house shows at all to
visit when they come to town?

Speaker 1 (01:52:54):
Never? Never done?

Speaker 3 (01:52:56):
Okay, And I already asked you about your friends in
the business.

Speaker 2 (01:53:00):
If you stay in contact with anybody pretty much that no,
let me ask you some thoughts on some of the
top guys in the business today. Do you still watch
TV at all as far as like you know, seeing
punk John Cena, Randy Orton, do you follow the TV?

Speaker 1 (01:53:14):
I've seen them, let's put it that way.

Speaker 2 (01:53:18):
Watching the product today. Who are some of the guys
that you say, you know you watch them go?

Speaker 1 (01:53:22):
All right?

Speaker 2 (01:53:22):
They have the effector the.

Speaker 1 (01:53:25):
Rock Rock Austin Is he still rout? No? Okay, never
mind that, take that back, Sneve.

Speaker 3 (01:53:32):
The new bread.

Speaker 2 (01:53:33):
I'm talking about like Randy Orton, Del Rio, Brian Danielson,
Daniel Brian, Seamus del Rio.

Speaker 1 (01:53:39):
I've seen Seamus. I've seen seam Punk or and I've
seen Sam Punk. I've seen what's the then name? Uh
can't think of his damn name. Who's that? You just
said it, Brian Daniels, No, the first one Punk say, Yeah,

(01:54:01):
I've seen him. I think out of that batch, I
think if they promoted and did it right, I think
Orton can be a top dog, I mean a very
they were. You know, you can't replace him top dog

(01:54:22):
Sina they like for some reason, I don't know. I
don't get it, but they have the reasons. See him.
Punk is not what I want my kid to say. Hey,
I want to be like seeing Punk, you know, I
want to be like Orton. At least you got a
cowboy there. Okay, that's cool, you know what I mean?

(01:54:43):
And I think that's what you know, for the most part,
you want to start building your characters off of what
these kids are going to say, or what a woman's
going to come in and say. You know, that's what
that's what I want to date. You know, crazy about him.
My boyfriend better come with me because she knows he
knows he's he's good looking, and I might lose my

(01:55:04):
heart to this guy. And you start filling the seats.

Speaker 3 (01:55:07):
Greatest room you've ever seen.

Speaker 1 (01:55:10):
Oh, there's so many. One of the greatest. No, actually, no, no,
I think one of the one of the best ribs.
One of the best ribs I've ever seen. Was coming
back from California landing in Texas. They cut this girl's

(01:55:35):
hair while she was asleep and pulled her shirt down,
left their tits exposed, shaved the racing stripe down the
middle of this guy's head that was with them. They
came in in a group of I think four I
think it was, yes, uh, two guys and a girl,

(01:55:57):
and they pissed all over the guy's sleep while the
flight attendants shut the lights off and took their little
seat break. This all transpired, and then when we got
off the plane they got arrested and not the guys
who did it. That's awesome, pretty fucked up.

Speaker 2 (01:56:18):
In closing, is there anything you want to get off
your chest that you haven't had a chance to say
until now?

Speaker 1 (01:56:24):
No, man, I'm good with my life, no regrets, glad
I did it, great memories, moved on, not chasing my
tail like some of these poor guys are. Still No,
I'm good.

Speaker 2 (01:56:42):
Is there anything you want to see to your fans
out there.

Speaker 1 (01:56:44):
Yeah, okay, I want to thank everybody who believed in me,
who watched me and said, you know what I get it. Man,
dude came from knowing nobody, came out of nowhere. He survived,
he got to the Manias and that's really Yes, it's
due to my hard work, but it's also due to

(01:57:06):
the fan base, the people that did come and chair,
and I think the people that come to these shows
and you know still want my autograph and pay me
a great compliment. So thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (01:57:15):
Oh, thank you for being here today. It was a
great interview. We's you the best of luck in the future.

Speaker 1 (01:57:19):
Thank you.

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