💥 "Psycho Sid's Rampage: Career Shoot Road Warrior Wars, Steiner Shenanigans"

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, it's a pleasure to be joined once again by
the man knowing as Sid Vicious. Sid welcome back to
the shoot.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Absolutely, it's a pleasure.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
We're gonna pick up where we left off ten years
ago with our last shoot. And after we did our
last shoot together. And you talk a little bit.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
About e c W and the shoot, just your views
from watching it, and you actually wound up in ECW
And how did that all come about?

Speaker 4 (00:25):
Well, see, I got a call from Paul and he was,
you know, said hey like to bring in sort of
you know, unadvertised in the beginning. I know, for what
I think I know of the business, I think he
was really doing a great job of way he was
using me. It was pretty much like I said, usually unannounced, unadvertised.

(00:50):
I'd show up, you know, power Bottle a bunch of guys,
especially after TV tapings and then then they then they
were doing some advertising first in the house shows. But
this was was a problem. We had a deal worked
out where say, you know, one hundred dollars a week,
I can't remember what it was, and if I worked
over two days or whatever like that was become extra money.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Sure, well, I told him.

Speaker 4 (01:15):
I was willing to work as many days as possible,
and then he would call me and say, hey, what
about this weekend, well this weekend morning book. He'd already
advertised me for some of those towns, but I can't
remember now outside of New York with it. And then
people started wrapped giving me a wrap of doing the
Nose Show, which I didn't know. I didn't know I

(01:36):
was advertised. If I knew when I was advertised, I
would have made the show because we were also trying
to work in jail. If he could have paid me,
to say, up to two hundred and fifty thousand dollars
a year, then I was going to be a permanent figure. Okay,
you know, so that you know, he was trying to
talk me into that, which I was trying to taught
myself out of, you know, because I was always I
was looking to go to one of two big companies

(01:57):
at the time.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
Right when you came into East you obviously you're you're
the veteran when you walk in there, were you willing
to help a lot of the younger guys and maybe
put over some younger guys along the way.

Speaker 4 (02:09):
Well you know what, Yeah, let's see I think sometimes
the where veteran is over used and overexposed and used
to loosely. Uh I was, you know, I think we
all it's all of our jobs, you know, the beginning,
beginner or you know, veteran come in. You know, this

(02:31):
is how simple the business is. You come in, they
spend a lot of time getting you over. You get
into a process after that, maybe hopefully be in a
position to draw money, get into the middle of something.
And once you had your run, you know, it's just
it's given to get back. So then you you know,
you put people over who will you know, hopefully help
them get up to the next level.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Sure, sure, were you surprised when you came into e
c W at how well you received by the fans?

Speaker 4 (02:58):
I really was, I'll tell you truthfully, that was one
of the most funny second most fun I've had in
the business. Wow, first of uh most first most fun
I think I ever had when I first started down
in Cotton Hill. You know the thing reason why that
was because no pressure. You know, I didn't know what
jealousy was. I didn't know people didn't like me because

(03:19):
you know, for whatever reason. So a lot of those
things were hidden.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
But e c W. After knowing some of those things.

Speaker 4 (03:25):
Those guys were all really nice to me, from Saboo, Rob,
Rob Van Dam, went Man Gang, just all the guys
that were just super super cool to me and went
out of the way to really do truly make me
look good. And it got to do with E c W.
Is sort of like you know, uh say, Saturday Night Live.

(03:50):
You can get away with a lot more things than
you could at eight o'clock show, you know, like you know,
ike spitting and things like that, and the fans love
that kind of stuff, and just that atmosphere was just
idea for me.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
Now, when did you realize in your run there that
the company was having some financial problems?

Speaker 4 (04:10):
Well, I knew, you know, talking to Paul, that they
were struggling a little bit, you know, because they a
lot of people weren't getting their money, a lot of
people were checks were bouncing, stuff like that. Even one
of mine bounced. But you know, I give you a
story about it. One time I was doing an independence
show for Michae O'Brien and then they were doing a

(04:30):
television tape and at Harlem w Yeah, okay, the little
venue they always do, that little place it was really nice.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
Little Well, I showed up unexpectedly queens Queen.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Queen Queen. Yeah, I had a question about that.

Speaker 4 (04:42):
But okay, Well I showed up and Paul was freaking,
you know, because I was with Tommy Rodgers. Tim Rogers
was owed some money as well because Tommy forced them
to give them cash. I said, Paul, you send me
another check, you know, I know, you know, you're You've
been good to me. I'm not here to worry about
my money. I'm just here to drop and say what's
going on. Why haven't you called me? You know, things

(05:03):
like why are you I'm getting the wrap of not
doing those shows and you haven't told me that I
was booked on any of these shows. And he was
so paranoid he wouldn't let me, you know, anybody see
me through the curtain and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
I think it sort of got blown.

Speaker 4 (05:15):
Out of portion and I came there to strong arms
some people, which I didn't, you know, I came with
Tommy Rogers, who's you know, a little bitty guy myself,
and never even took any money, you know.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
He sent me my money and the check was good.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
Oh wow, Yeah, I had I had a question about that,
because there was a story that you went there to
and strong.

Speaker 5 (05:33):
Warm them arm for the money. Well believe it or that.
Like I said again, Tommy Rogers would and walked out
with cash. He wouldn't take a check. I said, Paul,
will brite me another check, send it to me. Yeah,
that's how little I cared about it.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
One of the more memorable matches you had there is
a match I had against the Dudley's. What do you
remember about working with the Dudley's.

Speaker 4 (05:54):
Was that Asberry Park? I believe it was pay per view? Yes, yes,
Saboo was involved.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
You know.

Speaker 4 (06:00):
That's the thing about it is those guys all were uh,
you know, Baba Dudley and it was Divi. Divion is
a really super nice guy brother a little bit of
a prima donna. I hate saying that, but I don't
know if it was you know, maybe he was jealous
of me coming in. I don't know, maybe that's just
his personality. I've got personality people take the wrong way too,

(06:21):
because I'm quiet to myself a lot, you know, and
try to get to know people.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
But they were of a lot of fun to work with.
Saboo that made it a lot of.

Speaker 4 (06:28):
Fun too, And uh, you know, this is what is
bad about the business. I didn't realize that at the
end that they were setting me up for a table
deal for Sabboo. All they had to do is ask
I don't mind. And if anybody really looks back and
sees the things I've done, I have honestly volunteered to

(06:49):
do more jobs than most people have done, like because
especially if I was a main event and they came
with a DQ or double count out, I said, no,
I'm putting the guy over, especially as a heel. You know,
I said, this is not this is not the way
to end the show. So that's the thing is that
they would have just presented that to me, and I

(07:09):
tried to sneak that in.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
I still would have done it.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, as you know, not that I want to go
in a different direction.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
But since you talked about as a heel and you
were one of the most successful heels in the business
for your time period, are you surprised at the way
that the heel in the business today has changed from
being the cool heel to actually being the traditional heel
in the role that you played for so many years
and so successfully.

Speaker 4 (07:34):
Yeah, I'll give you. You know, I don't think a
lot of people remember this. What they call that was
a tweener are in between the baby face and hill,
and that was somebody who could work with baby faces
in hills. I was the very first one really to
take that role on when I won the belt from
Sean Michaels and what it was, I was told I

(07:54):
was going to be a baby face for extended period
of time and after that he'll etcetera, etcetera. Well, you
know a lot of people realize actually that was supposed
to have been Sean and Vader in that match, but
I'd worked with Vader in a house show at the
Gardens prior to that and got such a reaction from
the people. When I walked out, Vince was standing there.

(08:15):
I knew without a word that he changed his mind
it was going to be in that spot.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (08:19):
No, they came to me saying, we're gonna put you
in this. You know, we're gonna Vader go over tonight,
because we'll go next time we're here, he's gonna be
beating shown and then at the pay per view in Indianapolis,
you'll put Vader over to you know, for him to
meet Sean at Summerslamp. I said, fine, you know that's
that's perfect, you know. And so when I walked out
that night to the walkway there I looked on Vince's face.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
I knew it was changed.

Speaker 4 (08:43):
So it was a month or so later where Indianapolis
get ready for the pay per view and they pulled
me over the side, Hey, things have changed, and I too,
I told them what things had changed to.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
I knew it. You know, you just get those kind
of feelings.

Speaker 3 (08:55):
Yeah, and you actually did the tween rule as well
in the middle of the brat hearts Austin stuff too.

Speaker 4 (09:01):
Right and uh, and that was that was a little
you know for me too, as a hill when it
was just hills and just baby faces. I was always
a twiner, especially up in the Northern Market. I was
always perceived or cheered, and the baby faces hated that,
you know, having to work with a guy.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
You know.

Speaker 4 (09:19):
And I don't know if you know this yourself, but
you know, if you're a baby face and you got
ten thousand people cheering and you got one person booing it,
it really grows mine, not mine. It doesn't bother some people, right.
I've seen people like Bill Goldbert just literally go nuts.
Customer person shut up. You know, I'd say, hey man,
and then he's working with me and would get north
and more people boo him.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
But no, I always I like that as a Hill.

Speaker 4 (09:43):
It's acceptable, you know, you accept the cheers in the boost,
but that was That's always been my favorite rose to Hill.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Did you find that with Shawn when you are working
with Sean back then, that he would get real frazzled
when the crowdits are going nuts.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
For you, not Sean, not Sean, not Sean.

Speaker 4 (09:59):
Sean was up. I don't know if people know Sean
as well or not. Sean is a real He's a giver.
He gives out, you know, he gives to you. He
makes me you know, like when we were Triple Threat matches,
meeting him and Brett. You know, I am I saying
I said before working with Brett was like pulling teeth.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
He said that in the last shoot interview.

Speaker 4 (10:17):
Yeah, and Sean when he saw that me and Sean
would look at each other. We just sort of say, hey,
we'll work around this. And Seann would go out of
his way to really make me look super cool in
the match. I do the same for him. And we
do the same for Brett as well.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Wow. Uh, going back up wrapping up with E c W.
If if the money issues.

Speaker 3 (10:36):
Weren't weren't a problem and the advertising wasn't a problem,
would you have stayed there for a while.

Speaker 4 (10:40):
Yeah, I really could have, man, because you know, it's
sort of the same scenario that's going over t and A.
Now you weren't the workload was a lot less, you know,
and then it was a lot more fun. And I
don't know what TNA's like, but I'm saying I know
the workloaders left, but work for a c W man
was it was like, you know, it was like starting
over from you know, the small territory days, and but

(11:03):
you were making really good money. Now.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
What were your thoughts on Paul as a booker because
you went back with him to Continental Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
Uh, I thought Paul was a heck of booker myself. Uh.

Speaker 4 (11:13):
And again he had no reason to do anything, but
you know, treat me as a regular employee or a
regular you know, one of the boys. And you know
he did, in my opinion, everything perfect with me. Uh,
you know, to build up to really draw some money,
and he was doing it right.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Now, then you wound up returning to w c W
at some point.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
And I know in the last interview that we did,
it didn't say you seem more towards going back to
the w W than you.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Were to w c W. So how did that come about?

Speaker 4 (11:46):
Well, I just got a call what it was after
doing a c W for a little bit. Of course,
at the time, Kevin Nash and Scott Holling, those guys were.
Kevin was booking a good friend of mine him and
Scott said, hey, let's get this guy in here. He's back,
looks good and there's no sense of letting them go
in Ry Bischard gives me a call, has a private meeting,

(12:06):
flies in his own plane there in West Memphis, where
I'm from, and we met and talked and it was
a done deal.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Now, did you see this when you went into WCW.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
Did you see this as some kind of vindication towards
the way that things were left with the W Because
in the last interview you said you wanted to prove
something to Vince and come back and do your thing.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
You know.

Speaker 4 (12:30):
I think sometimes when we're angry or upset, you know,
and I try to take this business as it really is.
And even though I do, I still get upset about
things I shouldn't get upset about, and I get upset
at Vince and I feel like I was shafted a
little bit there. But then I yeah, I felt like
I was created pretty fair on top of everything too.
It's more of a business than you know, w CW.

(12:52):
The only thing about it is I never really could
prove anything or say get back at Vince so much
work for WCW. Only that I couldn't work for him
because with the really turned on about working for Vince
was if things went right, you know, then you got
to feel the power of drawing people, you know, and
that to me is more addictive than cash flow or anything,

(13:16):
to know that you walk in that building and the
majority of.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
People say thanks for the house, and you know you.

Speaker 4 (13:21):
Were a big part of because you know what it
was before you came into the town before and they
tell you, you know, and to me, I've not ever
seen a company that.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Can do that for anyone else, but they can.

Speaker 4 (13:33):
You know, how how many other companies had, you know,
like back when I was last worked for him, for
I had broke my neck. You know, we were selling
out everywhere. We even sold out next at Detroit, me
and bretton the cage match, just the house show when
the Detroit Red Wings were next door, and you know,
the last game of the Standing Cup. You know, So
when things are good like that, man, that's that's so rewarding.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
People. Let me ask your opinion on this.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
People talk about, you know, the chain and the readings,
war and everything, and a lot of people taught the
points of Steve Austin and Brett Hark. My opinion is
the cage match that you had with Brett on Raw
at the end of the year that year was really
the turning point with the result and just the way
you saw Austin interfear and the cursing at the end.
Do you look back on that and think the scene

(14:19):
that that match was very pivotal to the change in business.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
I think that in this whole beginning up, you know,
when I when I took the title from Shane, I
think from then on was the big change for the business.
That's when we saw that, you know, we could have
a tweener like myself and I could work with Undertaker
one night or Sean the next night, and I could
work with Brett I could work with Steve Austin, I
could work with with Hills like man Kin, you know,

(14:45):
be and Mankin had no issue at all. Was it
Nassau sold the place out? I know it was a
good house. I think the time before that I was
just advertised. Actually they sort of did a swerve. They
were trying to make the people believe Brett Hart was
coming out okay, and that's when Jim Anvil Nightheart came
out and the houses wasn't that great that night? The
next time around on the World Champ working against uh

(15:07):
uh Nick and sold the place out.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (15:11):
You know, and you know people like Pat Patterson, who
I have a lot of respect for. You know, he
reluctantly had to looked at me and said, hey man,
you're a video other.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
Man now coming back into w c W. And we
went into a lot of detail on the last shoot.
Did you have to resolve any issues with arn Anderson
before you started coming back to the shows?

Speaker 4 (15:30):
You know, they they know they brought me in the
very first night in Baltimore that pay per view. You know,
it was a mystery partner and I was Leaven wearing
a hood and a black shue long sleeves and stuff
like that. And then they said, we're not going to
do this mystery thing. We're gonna let you come up
and then we're gonna, you know, take your hood off,
and we're we want everybody to know who you are.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
Uh. So they pulled me in on to the to
the room and uh because.

Speaker 4 (15:54):
No one knew I was coming, you know, other than
Eric really and maybe a few office people, and a
lot of people don't realize about this whole thing of Arn.
And I've said it before. You know, Arn was one
of the people who really helped me out in my career.
He's the when first, you know, helped me out with
my interviews, which is a big part of my person

(16:16):
my character. It was just an unfortunate chain of events
that led into that horrible knight.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
You know.

Speaker 4 (16:24):
Of course, Arn has gone on record that I've heard
has always had great things to say about me. I've
always said great things say about him. The one thing
I could do, and I have said and I've said
it a thousand times, and I just wish it never
had happened, and if it had to happen, to Worship
hadn't been with him.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
It was just a horrible act an accident. It was
just a horrible, horrible.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Deal, right, And so when you went in the room
with arn everything was cool with me, was cool.

Speaker 4 (16:51):
Arne was an agent, He's an always gave me the greatest,
most respect, you know. Whenever we were going to finishes,
he'd asked me my opinion. I'd always asked him to
know he can make finishes real exciting. You know, I
think Cam and Ric Flair maybe some of the best
finish men in the business, you know, coming up with
a little beaty things that that don't sound like.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
That much, but man, it turned out to really make
the whole match.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
I can give you one for example, when me and
Flair was working against Piper and Hogan, and for get
how it went, but the finish was went for a
cover on Hulgan and Piper won. And I know, I'm
sorry Hulgan was going to cover Flair, I was coming
to whack him, pulled him over, and Flair do then

(17:34):
kick out then finally catch the fall rip. All Rick
added to that was a chair shot and then it
made the whole finish. I mean it went from blood
to wow.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
You know, can I just you know.

Speaker 4 (17:46):
When you're sitting back and you think you know a
little bit about the business. For man, that one of
the things that gonna make that big of a difference.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
But man, it did. Wow, it really did. Wow.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
Now, being back in w CW for the first time
in many years, how did things change in w CW's
the last time you were there?

Speaker 4 (18:01):
Really not at all. Then it got to be a
bigger production. You know, everything was on a bigger scale.
Our vignets are little things. I give you an example,
when that time me and Randy Savage was trying to
get Georgeous George away from Kevin Nash. That looks like
a small not a small movie set. It looked like
a movie set. They had all them, I mean right,

(18:22):
I mean that's something that they really was doing.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
Really a lot of really big, high production tanks. Wow.

Speaker 1 (18:29):
Now you know you and n squashed everything.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
Did you send any heat from maybe some of Orange's
friends that didn't want you back.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
You know, not want me back in w CW.

Speaker 4 (18:40):
Now, when it first happened, there was there was a
lot of people that didn't want me back there because
of what happened. Right after the time had gone by,
those people forgotten it. I can't think of anyone. Now,
I only can go by what I've heard. I've heard
Rick Flair said some bad things about me, Like I
guess because they just did this horse.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
I want to talk about that.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, well we'll talk about when he gets there.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, definitely, I would love to get your thoughts on that. Now,
at the time you were in w c W at
this time, was Vince Russo in charge or was it
just Derek?

Speaker 2 (19:14):
When I first got there, it was just Derek and
then Vince Russo came here.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
Okay, Now, did did things change for you at all?

Speaker 3 (19:20):
When because of course, you know, one guy has his guys,
the next guy has his guys.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
Well, it wasn't so much, you know, and that was
something else. You know. You know, I've always been one
easy to get along with.

Speaker 4 (19:32):
As time went on and I got more mature, I
was even easier to get along with. And so that
makes me bible and someone worth working with. So Vince
Russo was, you know, attatched me right away and we
knew each other from the w w F days. The
only thing is, I'm sure you were asking if I'll
go ahead and throw it. I just thought, you know,

(19:53):
Vince Russo, first of all, you know, wasn't the genius
everybody put him out to be, and he did s
such a poor job or a different type of job,
then I thought we all thought was sabotage.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
No one could be this bad consistently.

Speaker 4 (20:10):
I give you an example where in Little Rock, and
that's my home state, and I come out they started,
you know, the hall champ and he.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Had me come out.

Speaker 4 (20:19):
Uh see, Kevin was dressed up by Vince McMahon and
Scott was dressed up like someone else can remember who
wasn't They wanted to come out and say. The line
was like, this is a I'm not as dumb as
I don't. I'm not as dumb as you think I'm dumb.
Something there's something really sad. And then I said, is
this really what you want me to say, because this
isn't gonna help us draw money? Yeah, you know, but

(20:41):
but Bill, what was this guy's name, Bill? Bill Bush?

Speaker 2 (20:45):
Bill Bush?

Speaker 4 (20:46):
He come in now, Sid you're one of the leaders
here when I'm asking you to do everything they ask
because if you do it, then it looked like, you know,
everyone should do it. So I always had that and
that out that's part of the deal. And if I'm
that well respected by the big guy. I'm saying, I'm
gonna do what you're asking me because you're paying me
a lot of money. So I did, you know, and

(21:08):
that was those are silly things, you know. I just
didn't think that, you know, that had any reason to
be part of anything. It was a waste of time.
You know, television is so important. You know, we infective,
you know, but that's that's how I say.

Speaker 3 (21:24):
As a wrestler in the company and somebody has been
around the business for a long time, what did you
think when the whole David Arquette the Bible went down and.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
He was wearing the ws W belt.

Speaker 4 (21:35):
You know, I don't have a problem with that, believe
or not. No, I I know the business. I've seen it,
and the only way it's going to get better is
we have change. And you know, Vince was the first
person to use entertainers in the business to draw money,
or make things exciting, or bring a different you know,
good viewers to the you know, to the scene.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
So I didn't really have a.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
Okay, Now, when you came into w c W, you
were paired with Randy Savage. What are your thoughts on
being paired with Randy for a while.

Speaker 4 (22:09):
It was a lot of fun. You know, I've always
really enjoyed being by myself. I had a great time,
you know. Of course in the early years working with
Danny Sivey and and tagging up with the horsemen and
stuff like that and things like that. But working with
Randy was it was probably a little more fun than

(22:30):
the rest of them.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
You know.

Speaker 4 (22:31):
He was, Uh, it's funny too. I know you've heard
the stories about interviews. An interview with Randy, he always
got tried to end the interview. I don't care what
how many seconds the last time went and we're done,
and yeah, you know who was really fun to watch
to do that, whether it was Scott Hall. Scott would
never stop Pole oh yeah, oh yeah, you know. It

(22:53):
was in every end and then they had to redo
the interview to the you know, two minutes over, you know.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
But other than that, I mean, we had a lot
of fun. He was no.

Speaker 4 (23:01):
I was talking the story of to Dallas Page earlier.
I worked with Randy some house shows. Most of the
time I worked with Randy was he was substituting for
someone who didn't show up. And usually especially ww you know,
baby faces go over every night, and if there's a replacement,
the baby face sure goes over.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
Randy comes over. I said, what's gonna do?

Speaker 4 (23:24):
Then I goes I'm taking the power Bob because they
were building me for hoping for WrestleMania at that point. Okay,
so Randy's a businessman. Yeah, he got no little weird you.
Things were all weird own ways. You know, I'm called
weird because I don't party. Uh go to bed early,
I get up early. I work out twice a day
on the road. It's unheard of. So you know, we

(23:44):
all have a little gotcha and these are a little weird points.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
When you came in, they were calling you the Millennium Man,
and at the same time in WW christ Jericho was
calling himself the Millennium Man, and he he even did
an interview where he didn't he wasn't pointing a finger
at you, but just w C W by saying they're
ripping me off.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Were you aware of that?

Speaker 4 (24:08):
I didn't even know what JY JQ K or whatever
that was about. J I didn't know that. After they
started the Millenia anything, I picked up on it. You know,
they didn't tell me, so I picked up on it.
But you know, I know they were just trying to
get back at Jericho for leaving. Yeah, and so that's
part of it. Yeah, But I really wasn't.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Aware of it.

Speaker 4 (24:31):
I had done it a few times, you know, I
didn't put it too because you know, he didn't come
out with hy JJ way after I started talking about millennium,
you know, because it was a build up for him, right,
you know, so I was already doing it while he was.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
Still there, That's right, That's right.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
He was just in his daytime.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Gotcha. Now, when when you were there after a couple
of weeks, maybe a month or so, what was your
impression of the the politics, the office politics and w
c W.

Speaker 4 (24:59):
I thought they were they were upgraded a little bit
from the time before. You know, they got a little
silly with that computer saying about putting your fingerpint in.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
What did they have you do with the fingerprints?

Speaker 4 (25:09):
Well, it was a it was a you put your
ring finger on and send a message directly to the office.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
At what time you checked in?

Speaker 4 (25:17):
I thought, you know, here it is, we're trying to
save money and they're doing things like.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
This, you know.

Speaker 4 (25:21):
But I didn't mind because what I'm gonna put usually
the first one there. Anyway, I will put my finger
down and put my bags down, and if I want
to go somewhere, I'm gonna go somewhere right right.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
And uh Hogan, Uh, you know, Hogan was a big
player there, you know, all the way up until the
very end. Had Hogan changed it all?

Speaker 3 (25:41):
You know, personally professionally since years ear earlier where you
worked with them, you.

Speaker 4 (25:47):
Know what, I can't really say, No, he hadn't changed
because he was always really good to me and our
matches were always real easy. Uh it wasn't a wouldn't
pulling teeth. He wouldn't know. So, no, he didn't change
towards me.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Yeah. Have you don't watched Hogan knows best. I've seen
a little bit of it. What do you think my opinion,
I think is bad for him. And I'll tell you
and I'll give you a good example. One of things
exposes him is an old man.

Speaker 4 (26:15):
He walks around, old looks, old talked, old talks all
about his bad points. Then you know he was in
they were in Memphis just a month ago, and here
it is he. You know, they were in every radio station,
every live television station, everything. He was talking about how
now he's got a new viewing audience from DH one

(26:36):
knows best and they barely did two thousand people in
the twenty five thousand see arena.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah, it's been the talk of the business for a
couple of weeks. Yeah, it was really.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Horrible, but.

Speaker 4 (26:46):
They picked you know, I think what they should have done,
stuff what they were supposed to have done, and that
was worth the angle, which is not really an angle.
But it was supposed to be the last wrestling show
at the Mid South Colisseum and they able to put
in some of the people at the place they went to.
You know, it cost ten dollars to park. Wow, and
then it was so much to get in and it's
just and it wasn't well done. They did no really

(27:09):
no promotional stuff till like the day or a few
days before the show.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
Did they contact you would also do anything on the show?

Speaker 2 (27:15):
They asked me about it.

Speaker 4 (27:16):
I told him I wasn't interest in us at his
main event and then at the coliseum, and then you know,
then then they moved it to the Forum FedEx Forum,
and of course, you know, Evince said, anybody works for
that show never worked for me. And that's why I'm
trying to get to Yeah. Yeah, so I wasn't interested.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
Now he had he had a series of matches with
your buddy Kevin Nash when he came into w CW.
What do you remember back about the series of matches
you had with Thumb.

Speaker 4 (27:40):
You Kevin is a he's a real relaxed person, no pressures.
He was really trying to make me to build me
up to work with Goldberg, So he was really going
out of his way to you know, do well with me.
They were, you know, not classic matches, you know what
I mean. Yeah, they worked, but and I don't really

(28:03):
remember working with him only I scene. I can't remember
what it was, but it was like someone it was
a really hard crowd. We never really worked, you know,
and if we were scheduled to work, somehow another heat
changed around where we were tagging together. So that was
the one thing about w CW w W two. But
w CW is more fragrant, more often that they would

(28:26):
just you know, Kevin's in charge. If he wanted to,
you know, put me and him together as a tacking
partner against the Harlem Heaton, like in Phoenix one night,
That's what he did.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
Yeah, just as a student, as a student of the
game and being in the business for as long as
you have. Do you think that's one of the main
things that changed the tide of the wrestling more and
more people tuning into row because ww would advertise these
main events and then they would either get sixty seconds
or they would never get the match they were, you know,

(28:55):
advertising and expecting to see.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (29:00):
You know, we asked that question. I was going back
to another one of your ask earlier again. That's it again.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
About WCW, and and you were talking about how Kevin
you know, he knew you guys would be booked to
wrestle each other, but then you wind up tagging. And
you know, a lot of people point to that as
a big reason that business went down in WCW, especially
in ratings, because they would advertise these big matches.

Speaker 4 (29:20):
Okay, the ratings too, let's get the I think that
had a little bit to do with I think it
also had to do with just the timing. They had
just come off that big run where they were killing
Vince in the raids and stuff. I was working for
Vince when that was going on, but we were out
drawing them in the house shows and that's why I
went to Vince.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
I'll give you an example.

Speaker 4 (29:37):
One time here was I was just coming in and
they wanted me to get the cute or something by
Ron Simmons when he was the.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
And I said, I was really upset. So because you.

Speaker 4 (29:48):
Guys promised me this big run as a baby face,
and you put me in a tournament I can't even win,
I said, just didn't make sense. He goes and see
what we're trying to do this for ratings. I told
Vince right there, said Vince, I don't believe range mean
that much because we're beating it and in the house shows,
and that's what our job is to do, is draw money.

(30:08):
And I think what you're doing to me here is
taken away from me what I can draw. So now
that was what you get to the ratings. Talk about
that for just a second, but get the question would be, no,
I don't really think it was that. I think it
didn't help for sure, But I think they were already
on downhill skid because I know that going in, because

(30:29):
that's why they were you know, I remember the ratings.
When I got there, I was putting something always to,
you know, try to help the rains and we kept
it right there, you know, a miserble two nine to
seven to once in a while three or whatever.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
And in w c W, you know, it had the
reputation and guys you know that we've done interviews with
have talked about it. There were some guys there, and
you know, all kinds of names have been thrown around
that just mailed it in And a lot of the
guys that took pride in what they do would get
very frustrated working with certain guys.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Did you find that there were some guys that would
just mail it?

Speaker 4 (31:05):
And there's a lot of guys and then in the business,
both territories that would do that. I hated that, you know,
and I hate to be in put in a position
like that someone say, okay, let's do a Code Fresno
or you know we've done a show, say one time
when we were trying to make a three hour drive
to Sacramento to catch a red eye to get home

(31:25):
that night, and so instead of you know, but i'll
tell you this too now, and I know this was
WWF I. When I worked with Vader and I worked
with these other guys, we had some really long matches
because we had winning down and things would going really good,
and they would come to me sometimes and ask me,
it's shorten it up, And I wouldn't, you know, because

(31:45):
I felt like if it was right and it was
good and I had the people, I was the last match,
I didn't give a.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Damn what time. They just got out of there.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (31:52):
Yeah, but that is a that is true that a
lot of people do want to just call it in
and go through the drive through and get out. And
the thing is about that is that that's really bad
for the business, especially when you're trying to build a
business or you know, get a territory going back or
get it back up, when you know the one way
to do that is work harder.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
You ever worked before, did you, maybe with a younger
guy in w CW, Did you ever find yourself in
a situation where where you had to to say, no,
we are gonna do it this way, because.

Speaker 4 (32:23):
Yeah, and I did. I did with older guys too.
I'll give you an example. Me and Savage was working
against Dean Malinko and chrispin Wall or one of those
you know a couple of guys like that right there. Now,
I've been told by the office by Eric, you know,
not to come off my feet for anybody to be
real aggressive and do my deal. Get over because if

(32:44):
I don't get over to work Goldberg, it's not gonna matter.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Right. So we were in some.

Speaker 4 (32:50):
Louisiana place and Dean Malinko today said, I do a
really good drop Toho Savage was standing there. I said, Dan,
this is how it's gonna work. You're gonna come in,
I'm gonna boot you to the face. I'm gonna beat
the ship out of you. You tag out, I'm gonna
beat your other buddy up a little bit, and I'm
a power bomb both of you. I'm gonna get two victories.

(33:11):
I've done that, not just with those guys that did,
with a lot of guys because it's business. Sure you
and if I didn't do it, and I've done it
for where I you know, sort of went along with
the program. And then once I got out of there,
I was pulled to the side said, look, this is
what they see you on TV. If you don't show
that to these people in the house shows, it was
just the same as a no show. And that's why
it really is. If they see this personality on TV

(33:34):
and all of a sudden they see this guy on
his knees begging for you know, forgetting this from a
guy who four foot that's that's a no show.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
Yeah, did you find that a lot a difference because
you seem like the kind of guy that you look
at the future when when you're looking at what you're
gonna do with this guy next the next did you
find with younger guys they were more concerned about getting
their spots in in a match, where you were concerned about, Hey,
you know, I'm looking to cowards the future.

Speaker 4 (34:00):
Well that's something too, is really the business has changed
and they they call them.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Comedy spots, you know, pops.

Speaker 4 (34:13):
You know the thing about for me, and I learned
this through over the years, I've been really fortunate to
have come across and worked directly with some of the
best minds in this business, and not just bookers, but
guys who also were workers.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
And I think it's a lot harder. And this is
what I used to do to people.

Speaker 4 (34:34):
To stand for a solid minute and never move and
make that other person do the same thing. Now, that
to me is harder and more uncomfortable than trying to
get that cheap pop. But if you do that able
to do that. And of course my style is a
little different in a lot of people. Anyway, I could
like Sean Steam guys like that. Especially when I was

(34:58):
straight uphill, I could get then one thing. I said, okay,
now just crawl away from me. And when they crawl,
all I had to do is stalk and then stop
look at the people and it was there. You know,
it's the same as grabbing a hole. You know, you
have to find different ways to get that same the
same objective that you know, if you can find different
ways to do it. And I was years ago, God

(35:21):
told me, he said, man, you remind me a lot
of journey by it. I said, what I want you
to do something tonight? And what they wanted me to
do it was just after I guess it was a
you know, like a probably a wasn't a finished or
maybe it wasn't finishing the master.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
But you're the he'll walk.

Speaker 4 (35:34):
Out as you get down that aist stop, you know,
and turn around and just standing there as long as
you can stand there, take one step back towards the ring,
and then go back to the ring, to the dressing ring.
And when you're able to do things like that and
control people's emotion by taking one step that to me
is much greater than doing fifty high spots.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
We did an interview with Brunos San Martino a couple
of weeks ago, and I do a radio show and
I brew.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
On a lot, and I love it. He's me too,
me too. He's a good friend of mine, and we've
talked about how he says.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
That on the Indies and just in modern wrestling nowadays,
that they can never do what they did in his
day and what you did in your day by coming
back with the rematch and building up and building up,
because the Indies they throw everything out there in one shot.
That you can never go back to the same town
every month or whatever.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Do you do?

Speaker 1 (36:24):
You kind of agree with what he says in that respect.

Speaker 4 (36:27):
I do, I think too, And not just the Indies,
I think all organizations now they're so.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
So set up on a quick fix.

Speaker 4 (36:39):
You know, we're for instance, you know, when I worked
for Vince the very first time, we sort of knew
what I was going to do for one year.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
No, now they don't really know. You know, I just
told you a story about me in.

Speaker 4 (36:50):
Vader's right that happened, that change of course, sometimes changes
like that are good because I'm going to draw more
money than Bader, sure, and so that worked out good.
But for the most part, no, you know, they do
do that, but it's forced now because they have a
pay per view once a month instead of you know,
really trying, I think, because again I think their minds

(37:12):
are so caught up in that damn rating thing that
they don't think they can keep a rating by keeping
the same same issue going. That's the only thing I
can think of.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
Yeah, and you mentioned his name, Sting, and you wrestled
them quite a bit the first time you were in
w W. Now you're wrestling them a lot. Then how
did things change? The matches change with you guys?

Speaker 4 (37:32):
You know, they never got if there was any change,
it just got better.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
You know. Sting is so unselfish.

Speaker 4 (37:38):
And he said another person like Sean so giving, in
my opinion, the greatest, purest babyface ever in this business.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
He knew how to fire up.

Speaker 4 (37:48):
He had a great personality, he knew how to you know,
let the he'll get as he he did. He was
very comfortable with it, you know, and then he just
you know, just want you know, I've said this were
too not upset with him, but I'm upset for him
that he never got the chance. He still has a
chance to really get up to WW and really get

(38:09):
what he should receive in this business, and that's be
in FNT of seventy thousand people and be a part
of that. Yeah, but that's why I don't know if
you can do it now, have been watered down so
much at TNA.

Speaker 3 (38:20):
Yeah, now, now we touched on it briefly, But I
want to ask you here the horse that w They
just put a Horseman DVD out and Awn Anderson on
his comments on you, he said you did great interviews.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
He said you were very powerful, but you weren't a
team player. How do you respond to that?

Speaker 2 (38:42):
You know?

Speaker 4 (38:44):
This is what happened there, and this is why they're
all saying I'm not team players. Know they asked me
to do that video of that dvd.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (38:50):
The Horseman deal, well, just so matter as a matter
of fact, I've been trying to negotiate a new deal
with these folks, okay, And I told them straight up
that I've got plans and if I do get to
come back, I don't want to water myself down with
something I really had nothing to do with with the Horseman.
And if I do come back, I don't want them

(39:10):
to see that first. I want to see me. Maybe
maybe a new character might be you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Yeah, because you've been out of the spotlight.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
I could I could do a different character exactly, and
one I've got a really good idea for one.

Speaker 4 (39:22):
So that's the only reason I think him and Flair
had a couple of bad things say about me about
not being a team player because I wasn't interested in
doing the Horseman thing.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
And that's that.

Speaker 4 (39:32):
You got to realize that means a lot to them
because they really was the foundation of that.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
I was honored to be a part of it, but
I never felt like that was my career.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
Yeah, and Rick Flair was very harsh on you, and
he called you an embarrassment and said, you know, he's
an embarrassment. I want to make sure that you keep
this on the DVD.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
You know what.

Speaker 4 (39:52):
No, I didn't have to say no, Rick face to
face has only been good to me. Okay, all right?
Saying that first, when I hear that, it sounds like
a little disappointment from him because they're saying, you know, now,
they could have twisted it to him armed this different way. Well,
it just now we begged him and we told him
we pay him. He just didn't have nothing to do

(40:14):
with this thing.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
And blah blah blah. It sounds like a little bit
of someone of those things were hurt.

Speaker 4 (40:19):
There sure now being a disappointment or embarrassments been quote. Okay,
let's just say this. Who really is the bigger embarrassment
in this business? And that's all I'll say, you know,
is that someone who like me, has only had really
only one, you know, thing over my head that was
really not my fault, or him who's had a cast

(40:41):
of stupid things.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
He's done his whole life.

Speaker 4 (40:44):
But on top of it, on the other side of
he's a he's a great entertainer, you know for what
he is. But for him to you know, have been
that jealous, it could have done a lot of things.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
You know.

Speaker 4 (40:56):
I don't mind saying this, And this business since I've
been in I've out done Flair at one hundred to
one and drawing money. And that's what the you know,
that's what the name of the game is. I've been
the main event when he had been really main event
for a long time. I was made event nine percent
of my career, you know, so maybe more than that.
And whenever it wasn't main event, they put me in
the main bit anyway because Flair and those people couldn't

(41:16):
follow me. So if there were anything, it sounded like
to me someone's feelings were hurt. You know, team player.
Arn has to know him a team player because he
worked as an agent, you know, when I was in
you know, worked for w CW.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
They'd come to me. I did a job every night, right.

Speaker 4 (41:34):
I never had a problem with that, So it sounds
like just the little problem with everyone that I didn't
do the horseman.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
Thing, gotcha. Now back to w c W. Were you
surprised that, you know.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
Some people think they gave away a lot of money
by putting your so many of those matches you had
with Hogan on free TV rather.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
Than saving it for pay per.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
View in w c W. Yes, you know what this is.

Speaker 4 (41:58):
I don't really believe that because we never had a
singles match, or if we did it.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
A couple of times.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah, the thing about that is I don't believe that.

Speaker 4 (42:08):
You know, First of all, I wasn't in the angle
with him when I was doing those matches.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
I was still I was chooting for the for the
big deal with Gover, right.

Speaker 4 (42:17):
But now, when me and Holden shot our first angle,
it was down in Miami when I turned on him
and we were scheduled to come back in the pay
per view at Daytona. Was the first time they ever
had like a three hundred thousand hard advance.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (42:30):
Now they pulled me out of that, put Jeff Jared
in there. Now, that goes to show that it didn't hurt.
We would have sold that place outright and really very
little issue.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
And that's something too.

Speaker 4 (42:42):
There's several people in this business that I'm almost automatically
going to draw money with it.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
He's one of them.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
Where it used to be you guys had some real
good chemistry together.

Speaker 4 (42:51):
Yeah, and it was, and it's because we both were
able to give. He was always doing for me. His
His style was real, real easy. It's like doing a
three stages gig. That's what he calls it. You know
when he does his face, you know that's has just
come back and it's real simple and the people buy it.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
Now where did I leave off here? Oh?

Speaker 3 (43:13):
In our last shoot interview, you know you talked about
Goldberg a couple of times. In our last Shooter interview
that we did with you, Goldberg was just starting to
break and we talked a little bit about Goldberg.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
And you said you wish you could work.

Speaker 3 (43:24):
A little with him behind the scenes. Did you ever
get the opportunity behind the scenes to give him some
advice on his character and that kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (43:33):
Yeah, I did, know, talk to him a few times
about some things. You know, this is not saying I'm
right about this. I'll give you an example. You know,
we were working together. He was heard, wasn't a lot
he could do, and he had a couple moves that
he felt comfortable to do. So I said, I set
up a few spots to where we came into him differently,

(43:55):
like doucor close or this or that or turn around
that he wasn't. He gave me whatever this bump he
was doing, he says, we already did that. Well, this
guy a little loss, you know, because what you mean
we can't lock up more than one time, can't do
more than one headlock. To me, that's so juvenile. I'm

(44:15):
not juvenile, but not that's the wrong word. But he
just was an experienced and he was the first to
admit that though too. Okay, he was the first to say, hey,
I don't know what I'm really doing out here, because
you know, he had had the experience like I had
or Hogan had things like that, and too, Bill was
really being taken advantage of it from a lot of people,
you know, that were able to take advantage of it.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
So he had that little worried maybe that was happening
to him.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
Do you remember one story. It's sort of funny, but
this is goes along with beginners.

Speaker 4 (44:47):
Okay, we're coming out of Detroit one time, and this
is when the thing, the finger thing was first implemented. Okay,
And so I was asking and we're talking about that,
and he says to me, said, you know, if I
could just go one year or five years more without
anybody kicking out of these jack hammer jack, Cameron, jack knike,

(45:13):
deal hammer jack, whatever you call it, he said, I'll
be Okay, I want that's myself, Bill. You want someone
to kick out of that that't make money? Yeah, you
know so, but he didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
Yeah, Now, are you the kind of a guy, because
because you've been around the business for so long, you're
the kind of guy that likes to call your stuff
in the ring.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
Or you the kind of guy that likes to lay
everything out beforehand.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
Well that's a you know, the all defends that you're
working with.

Speaker 4 (45:42):
I always try to get an idea if I don't
know the person, how long they've been working, things like that.
But usually house show you're working with people that are
you known before and have worked with before, and then
everybody's got through the way too. Some people like Vader,
he wanted everything laid out with before we went out there,
and every once in a while I'd call a spot,

(46:03):
just something different, and man, we got to the dress room,
he went, not baalistic going, but like I seid, I'm
making you look great.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
Don't ever do that to me again, they go Okay.

Speaker 4 (46:12):
Now, working with people like Bobby Eaton, Van Bam Bigelow,
who I considered the greatest ring general I ever worked with, Wow,
and I don't think people really know that about him.
He was so smooth and so quick here to pick
up on something, well, this isn't working at worked last
night in front of that crowd, but it's not working here,
so let's change is He was so good at that.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
We never had a bad matach Wow in a workforce too.

Speaker 5 (46:38):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (46:39):
Now, people in various interviews have said that in WCW
they never knew who was in charge.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Is that an accurate state?

Speaker 4 (46:46):
That's really accurate. Even when you did know who was
in charge, they weren't in charge. And I, you know,
just there is a good and we all know this
story when they were all boycotting and trying to sign
petitions to get rid of Kevin Celliber and to bring
back Vince Rouso and and I was a part of
that name know it myself that what happened was I

(47:07):
was had dropped the belt. Scott been long and of
course his leg, my leg was under the road. I
was told to do that. I didn't know why, but they,
you know, the next night they put the belt back
on me through Kevin Nash. I just you know, they
asked me about what I'll put my name on that petition,
things like that. I'm just not interested in that. I

(47:29):
think the office should know who they want in that position.
I don't think Vince Rouchel was doing that grave of job.
I think everybody else was doing just as well. I
think Kevin was doing better job than anybody else at
one time.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
So I just don't. I don't. I don't like that
part of I don't want to worry about who. You know.

Speaker 4 (47:47):
We know Bush was the boss and turn around the company.
That was the only two things I really needed to
worry about.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
You the kind of guy that you just want to
show up your job, go home.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
I show up.

Speaker 4 (47:57):
I don't remember who I'm working with. I showed up
here this thing. Remember the guys first, you know. I
just you know, I don't like those hassles. It's that hassles.
Just I don't worry with stuff like that. I get there,
who we're working with, Okay, what's the finish? Okay, let's
do it. Let's have a great time. Was entertain the
people have? I always want to have the best match
of the night.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:17):
Scott Hall, it's been said that he could be difficult
to work with because you don't know what kind of
Scott All you're going to get on it a given night.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
And you worked with him in w c W, did
you find that.

Speaker 4 (48:28):
No, Scott is also you know, he's sort of our
Dennis Rodman of wrestling. He's going to show up sometimes
with a couple of beers and maybe something else, but
it never affected his performance, not with me.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
He always worked his ass off.

Speaker 4 (48:44):
It was always a man, you know, he took that
power bomb as well as a ninety pound person did.
He was really a great, working, big man, and people
don't realize how big he was.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
I think, wow, did you question you know, we were
just talking about it. Did you question when they put
the belt on Ben Watt and that matter, we put
your leg on.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
Yet it had been rumored everywhere that he wanted to leave.
Did you find that kind of occiput?

Speaker 2 (49:10):
I did.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
I didn't even know what until the day before the
day of the match, and Terry Taylor was an agent.
Time told me that in the gym, and I was
really upset for the first app set. But I was,
you know, confused and a little pissed off, thinking, now,
two things. One we know this rumor about them signing
petition trying to you know, start whatever. That just doesn't

(49:32):
go in this business. The other two is, no, Chris
is a health hard worker, but he's never gonna be
a big money draw. And so for him to take
the belt off me and I have say put it
on someone better.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
I thought that was a mistake.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
Yeah, and you're staying and he's leaving right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
And I'm there. You know, I'm doing everything the company's
ask for.

Speaker 4 (49:53):
I'm not trying to start my own union for my
own petition of people that you know, I only want
to just get to work here because he only does
good things for us and us the whole thing was
they It was him, Ben Ben Wall, Malinko, Perry Satter,
and Shane Douglass.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
I think.

Speaker 4 (50:12):
He was all these smaller guys that are never going
to read the potential of the big guy. They wanted
that spot and through Russo they were going to get
it because you know, and that was his that was
his link trying to keep his job. He had that
you know, that little uh following, but it didn't work out.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
Now, No, you and Arne were cool at that points.
There were no issues with him being the referee or
anything like that. Yeah, do you uh what was I
gonna ask here?

Speaker 2 (50:43):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (50:43):
Yeah, your thoughts on Kevin Salvan is a book. At
the time, you thought he did a pretty good job.

Speaker 4 (50:47):
I think he did an okay job. I'll just give
you an example of things I didn't agree with. One
of them was this me and Rick Steiner were working
against someone like Perry Sattern and one.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Of those two guys. It was a tag team thing.

Speaker 4 (51:04):
And you know, I don't know if you know this though,
you know, Rick was pretty much considered like the locker
room champion. Yeah, you know, his career and not too
big this. Sometimes his career was held back because of
his people being scared of it, you know, even the
bookers and ows the territories. So it's like when we

(51:25):
came in, Kevin goes.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
Hey, you got to kill him.

Speaker 4 (51:28):
You know, that's not the business way of doing things,
not those things I disagreed with Kevin about. Kevin had
a pretty good mind, you know, but there were better
people from the job, gotcha.

Speaker 3 (51:39):
Now, you wrestled a little bit with Terry Funk in
w c W. What do you remember about working with
a Funker?

Speaker 4 (51:45):
Well, he's a fun guy to work with, but it
was a little frustrating. No, I'm taking one shot to
the head with a chair and I'm out cold, and
I look up and this guy's taking fifty two shots standing.
I'm the world champion. Other than that, and that's being
you know, picky, and I'm not a picky person, you know.
That doesn't bother me. That's his that's his gimmick and

(52:06):
I love that and it was it was it was
an honor.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
Uh, thoughts on Tank out of it.

Speaker 3 (52:12):
He seemed kind of like a you know, a square
in a round hole kind of deal.

Speaker 4 (52:17):
You know what Tank was, believe it or not, was
a really nice guy. You know, he could have made
life hard for people.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
You know.

Speaker 4 (52:25):
I know he's a pretty tough guy. Don't know exactly
how tough, but you know, when they put him in
with me that time, and it's just you know, a
little nerve racking knowing this guy could go off on you. Right,
I'm not scared of me, but you know, you know,
if you've got your hands down, he gets you. Anybody
who can be knocked out. And uh, I was checking
in that night and the bar was way down from

(52:48):
the checking from the lobby, and he was hollered down
at me. Hey, motherfucker whatever. Yeah, and I was thinking, oh, God,
get just go over it. But we pulled a good
rate and he did a really good job. Yeah, he
did what was asked coming. I think he was pretty good.
That's all I was gonna ask you, do you think
that any of any of the guys, Well you just

(53:08):
answered it.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
You know, we'rever afraid he would go off, because I
mean not even so much afraid, but you guys are
business wrestling, business guys, and here's this loose cannon.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
That go off at any minute.

Speaker 4 (53:19):
But well, you know what, I don't ever remember anybody
having that issue with that conversation ever being blot up.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
Okay, I really don't okay. And was he was he
easy to take criticism if he said, hey, let's do
do it like this, or I think he should try that.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Yeah, he is real good about that.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
That's good. You know, I'm curious for your thoughts on this.
Dan Severn, when he was in WWE, he did an
interview with us and he said that he thought on
his way out World Rumble is one of his last shows,
and he said he thought to himself, you know, what
would they do if I just started shooting in there
and just started throwing everybody over the top and taking over.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
What do you what do you.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
Think about something like that? I think it's silly. First
of all, I don't think I don't know Dan that well.
I just met him once or twice. He's not gonna
pick me up and throw me out of the ring.
I mean, I've wrestled with a lot better wrestlers than him.
I'm talking, you know, Olympic wrestling, so I could hold
my own a little bit. That wouldn't have been a

(54:19):
good idea, especially if you had, you know, some people
in there that knew what they were doing as well,
and they would have picked up on it to remain
people in that ring.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
But it really gave it to him, you know.

Speaker 4 (54:28):
But I think when you're a person like that and
your whole life is really circled around real you know,
I think that has come across your mind, you know,
Like you said, he said he would want to do
it his way out. But what happens in that and
when we silly enough for stupid enough to broadcast that,

(54:51):
you're never gonna be in a position to do that.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
They're gonna set you up with somewhere.

Speaker 4 (54:56):
If they did bark the gun Bark really was and
scheduled to win that brawl for ral whatever.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
We just an interview with Bart a month ago and
we talked a lot about it, and he said that
the winner was supposed to get a match with Steve
Austin and so on and so forth, and he said
he went to the Bookers and said, hey, you know,
let me.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Just you know, work this thing.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
They were like, no, no, no, go out there, go
out there. And then when he won, it kind of
shocked them. And he said he was willing to do
whatever they wanted.

Speaker 4 (55:28):
Well, that's funny, he said that because I heard this opposite.
I heard they sort of ask him not to beat
Steve Williams. That Steve Williams we all know, was a
guy that you know they were scheduling, we were working
enough to go against Steve Austin.

Speaker 3 (55:40):
And well, yeah, that that he said he would put
Steve Williams over, you know, and let Steve Williams do
is deal with Steve Austin.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
That's what if.

Speaker 4 (55:47):
Barr says that that's got to be the truth. That
Bart is one of the most honest guys you're going
to hear. Yeah, or talked too.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
Now.

Speaker 4 (55:52):
I heard it was just the opposite that he didn't
want it. He said, hey, look, I'm going for the money.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Who wins this.

Speaker 4 (55:58):
Thing gets fifty thousand dollars or whatever, and that's what
he's going for. Uh, because he got He told me,
Billy told me about it. I said, you know, Jim
Ross came to him, supposedly, but Bart says that he
offered to do that.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
That's probably what happened.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
He said, well, you'll get a kick out of this
since you brought this up.

Speaker 3 (56:14):
He said that he showed up a television and all
the guys are coming up to him and said, hey,
I heard you. You said you're gonna go out there and
knock Steve Williams out. I heard you're gonna knock Steve
Williams out. And he said he never said it, and
Bruce Pritchard was just stirring up the pot. That's probably true, Yeah,
probably because he said he was really surprised when all
these people were coming up there and saying that to him,
and he went to Bruce Pritchard said I never said that.

Speaker 4 (56:36):
Well, and none of if this is true, this well heard.
This is what great guy Bart is. When he had
to fight Bob, he's a good friend of them. They
came to agreement that you know he did. He said, hey,
well I'm not going to wrestle you. We'll just box.
That's that's what Bob wanted to do. And he could
not Bob out.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we talked about that as well. Were
you were there when they were Were you there when
they were doing the bro for all? Oh you weren't there.
What would you you think just when you heard about it,
that they were going to have all these you know,
shoot matches out there.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
Well, there was two things I thought about. One would
be this, are they gonna believe it?

Speaker 4 (57:13):
You know, because we know at this point in time wrestling,
you know, our fans, we tell them to work, but
they don't want to hear it.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
You want to think it's real.

Speaker 4 (57:22):
But on the other side, if we tell him it's real,
then they're gonna tell us the stake, right. So I
just didn't think that was something they needed to do
to one.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Jeopardize a lot of people who got really hurt on
those things, like Papa Shaan got.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Heard Steve Williams.

Speaker 4 (57:38):
Steve Williams finished, yeah you know so and Steve Williams
in my opinion back in at one time I thought
he could be a big money jarer, especially as a
hill So I think that was silly. I don't think
it was good for the business. Uh ended up, but
it didn't. They didn't achieve what they were going for
and then Bart got knocked out by Butterbik so it
hurt business. Now they bought you know, it's unreal and

(58:02):
beat up their toughest guy in their territory. Yeah, so
that couldn't have been good.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Thoughts on a series of matches you had with Jeff Jarrett,
who I'm sure you were very familiar with from you
to Be's in Memphis, right, You.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
Know, Jeff is a good worker.

Speaker 4 (58:17):
You know, this is funny about some people you work with,
and of course you have you watch them on TV.
They look really fluid and everything looks in place, and
everything looks easy. Jeff wasn't that easy to work with.
I mean, I mean he was easy to whatever you
wanted to do. He was good about that. But I
just didn't like his spots he came up with. I

(58:38):
usually worked with him. He was the hill, so he's
the heel. I let him call the match for the
most part. And so this night picking him up for
a slam, it was like bel crows to me, it
just wasn't that smooths wow.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
But he was a hard worker.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:57):
Thoughts on matches, you know, like staying a guy you've
rustled a lot in your career.

Speaker 4 (59:01):
Lex Luger Lex was you know, of course I said again, Steing,
probably one of the greatest people I've worked with. Lex
was okay to work with, but he was so robotic
in the earlier days when we first worked together, it
was a lot more fun. He was over I was
a hill and that made it fun. But you know,
last run in w c W, I worked there with

(59:23):
him just a handful of times. He was one of
those that just wanted to call it in. Yeah, you know,
him to get back to whatever they want to do.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
Yeah, because I remember watching the matches, and I remember
seeing the matches in eighty nine and you guys had
a lot of fire and everything together, and it was
a lot different right this time around. Thoughts on you
did some tag matches with Vampiro.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
Vampiro.

Speaker 4 (59:45):
I thought this guy was smooth, I really did. I
liked his character. I liked the idea. I thought he
was did everything they asked. I think, you know, the
only thing might happen is whoever it was. It was
really so whoever they put him in a big spot,
you know, trying to put him over flair, put him
over steam, which I don't have. I think that that

(01:00:07):
should have and could have happened, because they could have
come back. You know, Stein could have come back and
beat him down the road.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
Sure.

Speaker 4 (01:00:13):
I just think things like that make you know, especially
good especially got someone sting has been there for one
hundred years. Vamperial got a really good look or good
he worked hard and was good, credible. I just think
I don't think you got the break he should have got.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
Do you find do you find out a lot that
there are a lot of guys again, and this goes
back to looking long terms, looking short term that you know,
there are some guys that just don't want to do
a job for whatever reason, but they're not looking at
the long term and saying, hey, we can make a
lot of money on the rematches.

Speaker 4 (01:00:43):
Yeah, I'll give you a good example of this. I
remember one time, It's like it was yesterday. You know,
Olie Anderson was the booker. Me and Mick Foley were
working in the territory at w c W. You know,
Oi was a tough, hard nosed guy, and when he
wasn't being hard nosed or custoing me, I didn't think
he liked me, but he was customing, I knew he

(01:01:05):
liked me. You know, for whatever reason, Mick thought he
had a heart on for him or had something against him,
and I remember not Mick walked out. I remember walking
outside with him saying, Mick, don't do this. You know
this isn't worth it. Man, You've got a job here
and blah blah blah blah blah. But for him, I
think this childish too. That word that much about what

(01:01:27):
happens in a wrestling ring when you're getting paid such
good money. And maybe at that time he hadn't realized it.
But whatever happened today is forgotten for the most part,
you know, And I know that better at anyone. You know,
I've done more jobs, Like I said, I volunteered to
do more jobs, and then I walked out the very
next night.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
I was still over like some guns.

Speaker 4 (01:01:47):
So I just think that that's overrated, you know, people
and that, but that's you know, you get ten people
that together. We got hundreds of and get thousands of
people in this industry. So if you just got ten people,
one or to those people aren't going to go along
with the program.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Yeah, How how strange was that?

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
When Bischoff came back and I had Bischoff and Russo
working together, I didn't really find.

Speaker 4 (01:02:11):
It too strange. I didn't because again I don't. I
don't waste my time worried about things like that. Yeah,
I was glad Eric was bad because I thought I
still think Eric is one of the better in minds
of this business for us making things really spectacular. Maybe
not a person spectacular, but he was a good at tattoo,

(01:02:32):
but he really made events happen. He did a w
W really some really cool stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
Yeah, you finally had the series of matches with Goldberg,
and again this goes back to ninety seven when we
did our first shoot. What are your thoughts looking back
on the series of matches that you had with them?

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
They were, they were good.

Speaker 4 (01:02:52):
I just wish I would have thought of baby a
little more about the match that night before all went
into a couple of them, especially with the pay per views.
But he was easy to work with because he was
so over and that always makes it a lot more fun.
Other than it's just his inexperience was the only downside?

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
Did he was? He?

Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
Was?

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
He untrustworthy? If you want to do something, was it
was he? Because like you said before, he had he
had so many people that did him wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
No, not with me.

Speaker 4 (01:03:25):
He wasn't he really wasn't. We both had a really
good rapport and a good trust each other. We knew
each other before he ever got into wrestling business. I
was working in w c W was playing for the
Atlanta Falcons. We saw each other in the gym and
I always had it add a lot. We're really good friends.
The thing about Bill, I don't know if people say
this enough. He's got a hard goal. He's one of
the greatest people you've ever met, one of the nicest

(01:03:46):
people he's ever met, especially being thrown.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
To a spot like that.

Speaker 4 (01:03:50):
He really never lost his head very much, you know
far as I always was real respectable to the wrestling
fans and you know, all the boys and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
You know, there was a few people he didn't like.
Scott Hall was one.

Speaker 4 (01:04:01):
Of Kevin Nashalls one he felt like they had it
out for him.

Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
Now working in the WE and worked for Vince And
know what you do about Goldberg, Why do you think
that things didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
Really work out for him over there as an outsider
a fucking end.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:04:17):
One. I think you know that big change than when
Vin spot out the companies and people knew what was
going on. Bill was already on the downhill skid in
w CW. He wasn't the big money drawer that they
really hoped him to be because he wasn't even been
drawing money. That's just being honest. Brought in w W.

(01:04:40):
I said this too. I said he wouldn't last very long,
and so especially with his personality. He's had a good personality,
but he takes things to heart really too much. And
I think that probably was I'm not for sure because
I wasn't there, but I think that was more of
probably the downfall wherever you want to say that caused
things not to work out more than anything. I didn't

(01:05:03):
watch enough of it to see if they were using
him to his ability. The Events is always pretty smart
about what people strongholds are, what their negatives are not,
you know, stand away from the negative, and it's real
easy for Bill to done that. I don't know too
if maybe Bill might have came in and said something

(01:05:24):
to Thence, like hey, this is what I need to
do to get over Events going okay, we're gonna show
you now, but you don't tell us. Unfortunately, you know
this educated me like, okay, Sid, why do you like
this person? He's talking so bad about you? I'm just
making up a story. Well said, the reason why is
because I got so much money. Best this got, I'm

(01:05:44):
going to use him just like I use you. He's
realized about that. I'm gonna get you old, and I'm
gonna bleed you for everything. I can believe you for it.
That's the business. But then you know, I've also seen
some vindictive things. Well I call it condictive booking, where
just you know, booking and doing things to a guy
out there that just does it is not helping the company.

(01:06:05):
And it could have got to that point. I don't
know that part.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Well, you said in the last interview you thought it
was a little vindictive when you came back and they
started calling you, Psycho said, well.

Speaker 4 (01:06:13):
That I think that was a little vindictive. I think
they just used that for you know, they were really down.
I'm telling you, man that that territory was on it.
But people weren't getting paid. Wow, I mean really the
guys except for myself, I was getting paid, but like
Billy and Bard and Bob and all these guys, they
had to go on the.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Road collect or draw money.

Speaker 4 (01:06:34):
And that's how they survived because you know, I think
got paid weekly and sometime be a month where you
got paid. So that was that's how bad it was
going in there. So I think they were doing for
shock value.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
They know.

Speaker 4 (01:06:48):
Bence was honest with me in the beginning. He said, Hey,
this is what we want to do. We're trying to
get Kevin dash over, so we're gonna bring you in.
Have you worked against him? And then maybe Sean after that.
The thing about it was just though from the very
first I showed that which I think was WrestleMania. At Hartford,
they chanted my name the whole time, and uh, every
time I worked with Kevin, and almost on every venue,

(01:07:11):
I was the babyface or the one, you know, the
more popular one or whatever. To me, you're working against
the grain there when you're forcing something down someone's throat
like they did with Rock the first time ran by.
But then after you got over a little bed and
let the people absorb me had helped. I think that
would help Kevin too. I don't think he ever would

(01:07:32):
achieve the status the Rocket achieved because different personalities and
different chrisms.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
Sure, sure, And is it true, h in the one
matter you have a goal where where you bledalize it
true that you had a surgeon.

Speaker 4 (01:07:47):
Yeah, they came in early numbering cut me. We did
a little biling back where Golbert would hit me.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:07:54):
They showed that it was like a little in certain
in the pay per view and then when back sewed
it up and then went back to the ring, and
then it didn't open up in quite as much as
they wanted to at first, and then they got me
a couple more times. The referee did I've never done
that myself. Yeah, And so then it did open up
and I never saw it, but I know I call

(01:08:14):
it home that night.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
And my family were in tears. Wow. You know, so
it must have really been pretty scary looking.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
Wow. And uh and you teamed up a little bit
with Hogan in uh W c W you know what's up?

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
And Bill?

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
Yeah? And Bill, what are your thoughts on working with
them as teammates.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
It was a lot of fun with it. It was
all right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
And you you left for a little while with an injury.

Speaker 4 (01:08:41):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
I think it was a tournament match. I would sting
it was the last match you had for a while,
and then you came back kind of early. Did you
feel pressure to well?

Speaker 4 (01:08:50):
I was, you know, I had this is the whole
weird story about that. I wasn't even set up, and
I was set up to go back to doctor Andrews
this miss day for my referral. They called me like
a month prior. Hey, you know, Terry Taylor, Man, we
know you're not ready. The doctors hadn't given you the deal,
but we needed I couldn't get my wallet out of

(01:09:11):
my back pocket. I couldn't put a belt on it.
But I didn't want them to know that I couldn't
cry my wrestling back, So I said, well, man, I said, well,
if you just go to a doctor and tell them
you're just going to try this at a trial night
to night deal. So that's what I did, And then
they brought me back several times also just to supposedly
just do some stand in things, like when time was
in the Biloxi, Mississippi, and uh, that was just a

(01:09:35):
standing thing. I found out Hoth was coming in to
clothes alow me over the top k I landed right
on my shoulder. I just had surgery on that set
me back too, And I thought then I was working
so hard through therapy and working out in the gym
so hard to try to maintain my look doctor Andrews
said it was a normal you know time frame. It's
just all the stress I was keeping on that particular area.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:59):
Yeah, Now you had a series of back to the shoulder.
How did it consistently nag you because you never really
had time to let it heal? Did it consistantly nag
you along the way?

Speaker 4 (01:10:12):
Well? It did, and that's up to the night I
broke my leg. You know, I couldn't do a suit
plex or anything that. I couldn't move my arm. I
couldn't raise my arm above my head, like I couldn't
put my wallet in Wow. So but they knew that.
But I was trying to be a team player. That's
what I don't understand about people saying that I'm not

(01:10:33):
a team player. I've walked him so sick, so hurt.
You know, I couldn't even carry my own bag and
still work, you know, So, but you know that's this.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:10:46):
Yeah, you had a series of matches with Scott Steiner,
who had changed a lot since the first time you
were around the territory.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
What do you remember about those matches? Chaos?

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
He was so man, I don't know what his problem was.
He was just so I don't know, he just couldn't
calm down. He was just cussing.

Speaker 4 (01:11:09):
Everybody, screaming everybody, the referees, you know, the people in
the back.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
Just I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:11:16):
I don't know if it was his first really solo
start on deal, you know, like I don't know if
you know this or not. He would like, you know,
they'd take it out and during an interview about steam
and then halfway through it he's cussing Hogan. You know,
it's like, what's going on here? Everybody look at each other,
go and I don't know what was the problem.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
In the w W.

Speaker 4 (01:11:39):
White didn't last there, but I knew he wasn't gonna
last there either, because you're not going to talk to
people like that there for very long.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
Yeah, you know, yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
Was he when when you actually got in the ring
with him, did he calm down or.

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):
Was he still just erratic?

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
Man?

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
Just nervous? Is I don't know what? I think the
pressure was too much for him. Wow, of course, I
don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:11:59):
If you I'm not saying anything. Then when he doesn't
know I remember in Gainesville, I think it was Gainesville
when he first game, his first singles match against Ric Flair,
he bombed terribly.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
Oh back back in the day.

Speaker 4 (01:12:15):
Okay, okay, he never shook that, never shook that, you know.
And that's why I still say that Rick was the
better of the two. You know, Rick had all the tools,
in my opinion, to have been anything he could have
wanted to be. He could have been the next tea
in Austin because he had credibility. He had he had

(01:12:37):
physical gifts. He could do that, you know, those awkward
things like that thing off the top, you know, all
those things that a lot of people couldn't do, and
he had that word credibility. I think he was the
better of the two.

Speaker 3 (01:12:50):
Well, let me ask your thoughts on this, because you
talked about Rick and Scott and everything, and I don't
know if you know this you might, but it's been
documented by everybody involved that Rick Steiner was actually supposed
to go over on Rick Flair at Stark eighty eight
in under five minutes for the world title and somewhat
of a squash. It was Dusty booking at the time,
and Flair went above Dusty to turn Or Crockett.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
And got a change.

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
Well he did that to me too.

Speaker 4 (01:13:16):
Really, I was supposed to have won the belt that
night in Chicago Halloween Havoc against Steam But that was
probably my greatest night of wrestling.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
And I didn't even know the finish.

Speaker 4 (01:13:27):
What we were told us I was going to win
and how it was going to happen was we're going
to do it. Manage going to the finish, throw him
outside the ring, throwing him through the back door, and
as he's come back through, he's going to, you know,
work his deal with someone.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
Heme in the head, walk into the ring, blow him up,
one two three. I'm a chant.

Speaker 4 (01:13:44):
Okay, I've been told this now for three months. I
did interviews for three months. I was gonna be the
next champ. Rig Flairvor come to me.

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
So he said, you shouldn't be saying that.

Speaker 4 (01:13:51):
That's what OI said, I'm going to be, you know,
So I'm gonna say what only tells me to say.
And so I know that he was the one who
went to the other people said is not ready for this.
So what they did was they had Barry Windom come in,
rolled him up. One two three. I got the belt,
and everyone's told anything different. I say, okay, I'm the champ.
Have a back turn. This huge eruption comes turn around,

(01:14:12):
stings in the ring rest, grabbing the belt out of
my hand, go take the stinger, splash one two three.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
I didn't know that was part of the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:14:19):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (01:14:20):
But to me, I got children's talking about that. That
to me is more more fun and have everything laid out.
And we fooled everybody, we fooled the boys. And when
you fool the boys, and I said what I learned
that night, and I do it in some of my
matches sometimes the trup be really physical and really make
everybody think I really hate that person while I'm out there,
because I know if you fool the boys, you fool

(01:14:40):
the people.

Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
That simple.

Speaker 4 (01:14:42):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:14:42):
So you know, just to close out on the Rick
Seiner deal, if if Rick would have went over as plans,
do you think he would have wounded becoming that big
star that I.

Speaker 4 (01:14:53):
Think he could have been if you know, for instance,
he had the right people in his ears saying, okay,
Rick to be the champ and be the top single guy.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
You've got to give and that's you know.

Speaker 4 (01:15:03):
I got in his ear like that a little bit
at the end there, and I let him know then
that man, the only reason you haven't gotten to where
you should be is because people are scared of you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:13):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:15:13):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:15:15):
Now I don't know, because I know you talked about
it before that you had a max schedule to Hogan
on the paper view and that was changed to Jared.
Was that the match that they had their their deal?
Where do you think that that was just a big
let's work the boys thing or do you think.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
That that was legit?

Speaker 4 (01:15:30):
I think it was Jid. I know Chi hated Hogan
for whatever reason. There was just you know, it's gonna
be frustrating for anyone who's coming into a place and
trying to do good and make big change when your
top player doesn't do anything but what he wants to do.

(01:15:51):
You can't make change in the territory if your top
players aren't playing with you. So I know they had
to be frustrating for him.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
And then.

Speaker 4 (01:16:00):
I don't think holy trust anybody had that. You know
what it was called creative control. I don't think that
should be given to anyone. I just don't know. I
don't want that, even though it was offered to me,
I don't want to I don't want that responsibility to say, Okay,
well we didn't succeed because you didn't do what we asked. Yeah,
that's not I don't want that blame.

Speaker 1 (01:16:21):
How how was the why do you think the match
was changed from you to Jeff?

Speaker 4 (01:16:28):
I don't know why because when we shot the angle
and in Miami, I believe it was and did TV's
next day. I think in Tampa everything's still going is good.
And then they brought me into the room and said, hey,
the shows a little heard. We're going to give you
this pay per view off. We're going to do this,

(01:16:49):
have Jared come in. I don't really know the real
reason for it, other than we know that Jeff jareded
was Russo's you know, coppadact best buddy or whatever you
want to call it, this boy, and I think I
think that's another indication, another tell tale sign about Vince
Russo was really not that great business will in it

(01:17:09):
because he made that was a bad decision.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
You don't make decisions.

Speaker 4 (01:17:12):
So I betting on a football game or a basketball game,
you know, I don't bet it on my faith.

Speaker 2 (01:17:16):
Who I like. I bet who I think is gonna win. Right.

Speaker 3 (01:17:21):
At what point were at any point did you think
to yourself in w CW from from a business standpoint,
that things are just spinning out of control around here.

Speaker 4 (01:17:30):
Well, I sort of felt like that from the very
first time I worked for him. I just there wasn't
any structure there. And after working for Vince and seeing
structure and seeing how things are done perfect, you know,
that was something I tried to do when I went
back to him. I worked in the office with oleag
just doing things like this, interviews, being sure people got
some things done right, and if it wasn't good, I know,

(01:17:52):
just the formula for this business is so simple, and
Vince has got used to have it down really downtown
Art And when you saw how simple it wasn't how
successful it could be, you wanted to send that formula
everywhere you went. I remember me and the Nasty Boys.
We're back in w CW. They had also left and
I had left. We were in somewhere in South Carolina

(01:18:16):
for a twenty thousand dollars house. I wanted to commit suicide,
I said, Man, I left seventy thousand people. Man, how
in front of two thousand and they were like, they
didn't need grace. The house is at four thousand dollars.
I looked at Brian Kopta says, shut up, don't even
include me in this. I don't even be. I don't
anybody say I was a part of this, that's how.

(01:18:37):
But again, like I said, it was more fun atmosphere,
more of a family type of deal. But that's not
what I was looking for.

Speaker 1 (01:18:45):
Yeah, when you heard that WCW was up for sale,
re surprised.

Speaker 4 (01:18:52):
No, you know that rumor has sort of been buzzing
around there for a while. You know, I was a
little shocked that it went through. You know, I was
really shocked Evince was the one and bought it, you know,
because I couldn't leave. Turner gave in like that. Of course,
he had so many people over him making that decision
for him. I believe, Yeah, it was I think the

(01:19:13):
whole thing was strange. And I'll tell you what I think.
This is my opinion. I think that was the opportunity
for the business to start back from square one. We
could have done everything we were I mean, since I
noticed it sounds maybe it's silly, but you could have
went back for it. You could have really got someone
like me, I had really strong credibility and beat somebody

(01:19:34):
with a slam. You know, didn't don't touch the referees
for a while don't get out of the ring for
a while. That's what I want to do when I
go back. I want to never ever wrestle outside of
the ring. Be the first person to do that, you know,
and have it, you know, and then they'll know things
like that. Yeah, I think they they screwed up that opportunity,
you know. Uh, they didn't do similar.

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
Things right, you know, I mean when when they integrated WCW.

Speaker 4 (01:19:57):
Yeah, I think when they all started that, it was
a good good time for them to start back a
little bit, take a few steps back, go back to
some of the simple philosophies of the business, and then
and then do some of the because they're still doing
the same things they did one hundred years ago, right,
just a little just a little different twists, and sometimes
the twists are different. So this would have been a
good idea to start back then. Say I'm just using

(01:20:19):
a slam for a finish. I'm just using that for
an example. Okay, then that would have made a power
bomb really spectacular.

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
Yeah, you know where.

Speaker 1 (01:20:28):
You watch even the old tapes today and see guys
meeting people on soup on vertical sup plex it.

Speaker 4 (01:20:33):
Once they hit that, it's over exactly. So that's the
only thing is I think that that was a mistake.
I think they could have went back, They could have
regaate the business of rebirth, I believe.

Speaker 3 (01:20:44):
Yeah now did it because a lot of guys at
w CWU, we're making a lot of money at the time.
Did any of the boys ever think well, let's just
pull our money together and buy WW.

Speaker 2 (01:20:57):
I don't think no.

Speaker 4 (01:20:58):
I think there's way too much money for people to
do that, and too you know, like me from my
experience in this business, you'll put any money back into
these you know, if you try to run your own show.
Pullethian is a good example. You try to run that
show him and their Memphis and they lost their ass.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
You know, they could have done them, could have made
no money.

Speaker 3 (01:21:17):
I think now now looking back, when I think Randy
Savage did actually put a bid in on his own
for w C dollars, but nothing really worth it because
I think it only sold for like three million dollars.

Speaker 4 (01:21:27):
So yeah, you know, so I think they should have.
But the thing is, though, and you do know this,
but pol weren't thinking about it takes a lot more
money than that. We you know, with payrot and production calls,
and now turns that back in you you got to
come up with your own Jimbo tron, your own rings.
It's a it's been too tough. Yeah, And the business

(01:21:51):
was bad then too, And.

Speaker 3 (01:21:52):
I guess for somebody like Vincy already has the rings,
the production everything everything. You had some matches in WCW
with Shane Douglas. Who was he in Continental when you
were there?

Speaker 1 (01:22:04):
See who he was?

Speaker 2 (01:22:05):
Actually, I don't know a lot of people remember this.
He was. I was a heel of lord umungus. He
came out. He's the one termed me baby face.

Speaker 4 (01:22:13):
He right, my.

Speaker 1 (01:22:13):
Cousin, right right, right, because I used to watch on
the Financial News Network.

Speaker 4 (01:22:18):
Yeah, so yeah, Yeah, Shane was a lot of flun
to work with. I didn't really respect him so much
as a worker, so I worked with him in w
c Really I didn't thought he was that great, but
he really made me look like a million dollars the
time I worked with him. And he was smooth and uh,
just really giving. You know. You know, Shane's got a

(01:22:38):
little bit if you know him, Oh yeah, he's a
little cocky or a little different. You know, I don't
know what the right word is for him. But one
of those people, I would say, at leaves too much
in his characters. Very confident in himself. Yeah, confident in
himself too. We all have to do that. But you know,
the franchise and excuse me, but he knew Stein was
using that. This you don't need to do. You know,

(01:23:00):
he's not a franchise, you know. But still, but he
was a lot of fun to work with.

Speaker 1 (01:23:06):
Yeah, now you know one of you.

Speaker 3 (01:23:09):
Know, the match where you broke your life, you weren't
known for coming off the ropes.

Speaker 1 (01:23:17):
How does that come about?

Speaker 2 (01:23:19):
Well, you know, Johnny had been asked me to do
that stupid.

Speaker 4 (01:23:23):
For some time, and I said, they knew I couldn't
even put up Belton, you know, So I said, I
don't feel comfortable even jumping off a rope right now,
even to give an axe handle, and I just don't
want to do it. And so the night of the
paper view in Indianapolis, he had written into the script
and why it was so important because once I did that,

(01:23:46):
then they were going to pan back to the mystry partner,
who we know wasn't going to be on my side.
We know the finish was his brother. And then as
they come back. I think at that point they were
supposed to have me down and getting their heat on me.
He was just showed up and then not saved the
day or whatever the case was. I just, you know,

(01:24:08):
I could have The only thing I say is I
could have. You know, I eaten at one point that
evening and said, hey, man, I don't I want just changes.
I don't want to do it, and yeah no for
several years, man, it was a big regret for me.
I'm telling you something. You're talking about six fucking years
of rehab to get where I'm at today.

Speaker 2 (01:24:28):
It never a day of it didn't go back for me.

Speaker 4 (01:24:30):
I think about d wow, little animosity, not towards Johnny
really to myself, I should nothing against Johnny. Johnny's not
a genius either. He got a good mind for the business.
But me jumping off giving Scott Skinner Steiners and needed
the head that's not gonna fucking use my language, not
do anything other than getting hurt.

Speaker 2 (01:24:51):
And I wasn't going to make that big of a deal.
That's what I you know, really bothered me about the
old thing.

Speaker 1 (01:24:57):
When when when.

Speaker 3 (01:24:59):
You originally I hurt your leg, did you think just
like all the other injuries, you could recover from it
in six months or so.

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:25:06):
You know, now, when I was in the hospital that night,
I never saw I never looked at it, never seen
the clip, never want to. Those doctors looked at me,
and I was telling I could tell by their eyes
something was wrong. Even when I went home and started
doing my referral work, I didn't really know more about
this injury to really believe it or not that horse, Barbara, Yes,

(01:25:28):
all right. What happens is when you have a compound
factory that far away, there's no muscle tissue, so it's
the hardest way for anything to rehab. And that's why
it was so hard, and that's why it's been such
a long process. And I was never predicted every walk
or run again, Wow, I'm doing all that now. So
that's why I'm a little biting at the bit now
because now I'm ready and I'm ready to get back

(01:25:50):
and I want to finish my career not being carted
out on a stretcher. And I always wanted to finish
my career working WWE. That's why I could have the
most fun, you know, that's the most fun, but the
most I.

Speaker 1 (01:26:03):
Could really be the biggest impact.

Speaker 4 (01:26:06):
Well, then I could get my self gratification right by
drawing money, you know, And that's I know it sounds cliche,
but that's my.

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
Most important thing for me.

Speaker 4 (01:26:16):
If I'm drawing money, I'm making money, right, making money,
not drawing money is not that much money. I've done
it work for ww you just go through the motions,
you know. But when you're drawing money, you're working hard,
and everything's it's just you don't feel eggs and pains,
you know, It's just it's so well worth it.

Speaker 3 (01:26:32):
Yeah, as far as the clip, people compared to Joke
Thysman when Joke Thaisman broke his leg and it's just
you know, it's it's it's an infamous clip people you
know watch it to this day.

Speaker 2 (01:26:43):
Well, you know, I believe too that just between you
and me, sure.

Speaker 4 (01:26:50):
That just coming back from that, that's gonna be the
biggest medical comeback in the history of any sport. Just
for me to come back from that alone, not saying
and changing my identity that might help too. You think
they're coming a sack from that, it's gonna make that'll
be a hell of a deal.

Speaker 1 (01:27:06):
Definitely, Definitely. People people love comebacks exactly, and man, this
is a guy the heck of the story.

Speaker 2 (01:27:12):
Man, you get to realize.

Speaker 4 (01:27:14):
One month after that surgery, I was in the gym
on a walker, okay, doing power cleans on one leg.

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
I got people at the gym and still remind me
of how was you doing that?

Speaker 4 (01:27:25):
Walking downstairs on a walker only allowed to put seven
pounds of pressure on this leg?

Speaker 2 (01:27:29):
You know? So I did that, you know, you know,
just and.

Speaker 4 (01:27:33):
Then you know, running into that wall every day it was.

Speaker 2 (01:27:38):
It was tough. Now I was ran through that wall,
you know. So that and really aside for me.

Speaker 3 (01:27:44):
I was gonna ask you mentally, how how you know,
at your lowest point recovery.

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
From the leg injury, how down did you get?

Speaker 4 (01:27:52):
Man, I'm gonna tell you something. I had to. It
really put on everything in my life because at first
I didn't I was hitting the wall, but it wasn't
effective me.

Speaker 2 (01:28:06):
I was, I said, Okay, I don't know what I'm doing.
The doctors weren't really getting me a lot of.

Speaker 4 (01:28:11):
Telling me what was going on either. I finally had
one doctor finally tell me, he said, you know, I
can really ever walk again.

Speaker 2 (01:28:17):
Man.

Speaker 4 (01:28:17):
From that point on, it was it was pretty scary,
so I had to work harder hard, you know, you
I would, I'd work out in the morning that I'd
go to rehab for three and a half to four
hours a day every day for years. I did this
so depression. I never dealt with depression before I had
to deal with that. You know, I didn't even know
I was dealing with depression. You know, I never you know,

(01:28:37):
I don't have anything to be depressed about. It's one
of those things that sneak up on you. You don't
even realize it's hitting it ntil it's too laid. Caused
me a lot of problems with my family.

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:28:48):
I'm just now able to get make up to my
family the things out of the way I was acting
and I didn't even know why I was acting like that.
Had to go through a you know, anger management Corps
because I was so angry at the whole world. I
wouldn't blame anybody for anything, but boy, it's just you.
And I use anger as a tool for me to

(01:29:09):
to succeed sometimes, like whatever's going on, I'm gonna work.
I'm so damn man, I'm gonna work out three times
today and I'm gonna run bleachers twice, so that would
push me in.

Speaker 2 (01:29:20):
Making me do better.

Speaker 5 (01:29:22):
This time.

Speaker 2 (01:29:22):
Anger didn't work for me. It just made a hole
deeper and deeper.

Speaker 3 (01:29:26):
That's exactly what you said in the last interview was
how anger motivated you to run more bleachers because you
were recovering from injury. You know, when we did our
last interview and things like that, you were saying the
same exact thing.

Speaker 4 (01:29:37):
Well, and it does. And I was running. I got
a heel over Memphis. It's one hundred and ten yards
up in pretty steep angle. I run up to the
top of it. I spit, I step on it. I'm
stepping on somebody. That's what I think in my mind
said time, and that's what makes me get up that
hill another time. And I can run bleachers for sixty minutes,
nine stop. It's just I'm in such shape, you know,

(01:29:57):
it's it's phenomenal. Wow, And people see that. People you
realize back home, it takes eveywhere from three to four
people to work out with me in a week because
they can't recover and they can't work out with the intensity.
I mean, I don't be what's called an empty set
every sets the failure. Wow, you know, it's so intense,
and that's why I'm in such great shade. Even with

(01:30:19):
the disability I had to work through. Yeah, and now
now it's no longer disabilities. It's actually been a you know,
it's been a good thing for me.

Speaker 1 (01:30:27):
Is it harder to stay in such top sheep as
you get older?

Speaker 4 (01:30:32):
You know what I would have thought, So you know
I wasn't. I'm in better shape now than I was
before I broke my leg right, And that's what's weird.
This is the time that I judge myself. I have
two goals. One's long term. One short term. Long term
goal is to see how many pounds of lean muscle
mass I can put on it each year.

Speaker 2 (01:30:50):
And this is the time that I lean down. That's
why I'm a little lean right now.

Speaker 4 (01:30:54):
From three h fives around two eighty now I was
down to two seventy. But I'm coming back up a
little bit. I see how many pounds of lean muscle
masks I can put on in one year. Then my
short term goals to see how many days consecutively I
can make it into the gym with I miss it.
Like through November December, January, I didn't miss a date
they adn't opened up on the gym opened up for

(01:31:14):
me on the days off.

Speaker 2 (01:31:15):
Wow. So people don't know that about me either.

Speaker 4 (01:31:17):
You know, I'm at my first workout at five o'clock,
you know, and then my back in there one or whatever,
and I'm in there for three hours at minimal Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:31:25):
Now, when you when you were recovering from your injury
and you were at your lowest point, did you cut
off contact, like not even talk to any of your
friends anymore?

Speaker 2 (01:31:33):
Guys? I changed my phone number.

Speaker 4 (01:31:35):
Wow. I didn't want to hear ask that story. I
didn't want to answer that story. I don't want answer
any more questions about that anymore. On the other hand,
there have been so many good people that were you know, strangers, Like,
for instance, when I was going to the gym and
I knew, for instance, I had I could walk. I
get out of my vehicle and I could walk so
many steps before I had to sit down.

Speaker 2 (01:31:57):
There were people that were personally.

Speaker 4 (01:31:59):
Parked my be here for me, opening the doors for me,
things like that, you know, hey, we're praying for you.
I think those were good things. Are good that parts
of my life that kept me going. Yeah, the rest
of business side has a tendency to ask the same
on nagging questions. If you're talking to one of the boys, especially,
you know they're going to you know, have that leg

(01:32:19):
that had it happened? Why did it happened? Just explaining
it time and time again. For three it seemed like
even today I'm still answering it. But for three four years, man,
it was all day, every day.

Speaker 2 (01:32:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:32:31):
Got And it makes a lot of sense what you
say about wanting that.

Speaker 3 (01:32:35):
Last run to show people you don't want to go
out like that, because there are a lot of people,
you know, kids that have never seen you wrestle before,
but then they find your clip on YouTube or something
like that. That and for me, I take a lot
of pride in what I've done.

Speaker 1 (01:32:48):
I really.

Speaker 4 (01:32:50):
Maybe think maybe too much of myself. Some people we
all think, maybe say things that make it sound like that.
I think I had a really great career. I think
that would be a horrible way to been remembered going out,
I said, And now have so much more to offer,
more mature, you know, those last few years of w
CW knowing could have been more giving than I was.

(01:33:11):
This whole idea about this thing, now, this is why
this camp. This can only be a win win situation
for events and myself. I'm coming in knowing what my
job is, and that's to get over and draw money
and then after that put people over. And not many
people want to, you know, in their career correctly by saying, okay,
use me, put me on that slab, cut my head off,

(01:33:33):
I'm finished.

Speaker 2 (01:33:34):
I'll do what after that? What you want me to do? Oh,
look at Hogan.

Speaker 3 (01:33:37):
He doesn't want to go back because he doesn't want
to finish that way.

Speaker 4 (01:33:40):
That's silly. That's silly because you know, to do that.
You know, it doesn't mean you can't come back to
do a job. Doesn't mean you don't come back, you know,
unless you say, hey, I don't want to come back,
you know, right, you know, I know this is just
what I feel like they want to do Hoogan. When
I was in there the first time, they were ready

(01:34:00):
for Hogan to finish up and only do special appearances
through the year.

Speaker 1 (01:34:04):
That's fifteen years ago.

Speaker 4 (01:34:06):
What he didn't want to do that then, you know,
so some of us had that deal where we don't
want to you know. But at the time too, vincem
didn't want him to go to doc they want to
keep him here to do just you know, special deals.
You know, Hogan was looking at the larger picture. Can't
fault the guy for doing it. But he's back now
for Vince doing periodically shots. And I don't know this

(01:34:29):
to be true or not. I heard this why he
was in Memphis. This is why they wouldn't let Lawler
and anybody else do the show because he wouldn't do WrestleMania.

Speaker 2 (01:34:36):
I don't know the truth to that.

Speaker 1 (01:34:38):
That's what they say, Yeah, yeah, that's that's the war
in the street.

Speaker 2 (01:34:41):
And I don't know why he didn't want to do WrestleMania.

Speaker 1 (01:34:44):
Money. Something to do with money.

Speaker 4 (01:34:45):
Well, I heard they offering a lot of money with
the money I heard. I heard it was the position
on the car.

Speaker 1 (01:34:51):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:34:53):
I think he had some kind of deal where when
he came back for shows, he had to be the
highest paid guy on the show.

Speaker 1 (01:35:00):
And for a while it worked.

Speaker 3 (01:35:01):
And you know, Vince doesn't want that anymore, but he
still wants to be the highest peed guy on the show,
even at this stage of the game.

Speaker 4 (01:35:09):
The only thing I say about that is, if you're
drawing the money, you should be the highest baked guy
on the show. Yeah, and when he came back, I
think he was still drawing a bigger crowded I think, so,
you know, I don't I think I don't know why
that would have been an issue, but I guess it was.

Speaker 1 (01:35:27):
Yeah, was it mentally the first time you stepped back
in a wrestling ring after you you know, recovered and
you know, after all those years and the hard work.
Was it a tough mental block to get over?

Speaker 3 (01:35:39):
Is stepping back into the wrestling ring and being in
a position where you're light's vulnerable again.

Speaker 2 (01:35:44):
Well that's funny.

Speaker 4 (01:35:46):
As My first show back actually was a referee gig
in Montreal for Jock and Carl Willett, which I did
feel awkward than that one. The next gig was I
came to Montreal and did a paper review for a company.

Speaker 2 (01:36:01):
It was like ECW in Montreal, I can't remember the name,
is something like that. I worked a whole hour that night.

Speaker 4 (01:36:08):
We were an a tag team type of UH tournament
that really wasn't a tournament that.

Speaker 2 (01:36:14):
We did this whole deal. I did a little bit
of this gig that I.

Speaker 4 (01:36:16):
Want to do for vincing them about this guy character
I've been talking about, and I used a midget.

Speaker 2 (01:36:23):
I used to catch the characters.

Speaker 4 (01:36:25):
I used where I'm getting this thing from us, from
great conquers in the world, like Gingis Kong, and what
they did after they conquered countries, they'd go into the
castle and they prayed, the queen, the king grown and
had a party.

Speaker 2 (01:36:37):
Then when they got tired of that, they would cut
their heads off, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:36:40):
Uh. And I would say that in the interview, I'd go, hey,
and Gods took me to that. And I was sitting
right next to gingas Cong when this happened. But I
worked a whole hour. Now, I'd set up all these
things up with call you know, call being for Montreal.
He just said, I just don't understand all this stuff.
We had an hour last had all these props and

(01:37:01):
had the midget and the girls and blah blah blah,
bah blah. But when we got done with it, we
got home that night and we were exhausted, and Called
looked at me and called, I have a great amount
of respect for this guy.

Speaker 2 (01:37:13):
He's a great worker. He looked at me and he said, said,
you're a genius.

Speaker 4 (01:37:17):
I mean, I do know what I'm doing, I know
what works, I know how to make things work, and
they don't always sound just like the deal with Flair.
That chair didn't sound like the big of a deal,
but it was so these little things that were complex
for Carl. Was so much to digest in a couple
of days of going over it, which really this needs
years to be done, and we did it one night.

Speaker 2 (01:37:38):
But it was a lot of fun than that.

Speaker 4 (01:37:40):
To get back to your answering that, but I did
the whole hour and never thought about my leg.

Speaker 2 (01:37:44):
Wow that one time.

Speaker 4 (01:37:46):
But then the next match after I had like that
was a year after that was in Nashville, a few
matches there, same thing. Just man, of course I'm running
at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:37:56):
So yeah, yeah, you find out that the sale was
done and that Vince bought w CW.

Speaker 4 (01:38:05):
Someone called and told me about it. I said, watch
it tonight, change or come on and announce it.

Speaker 2 (01:38:09):
You know, yeah, I saw it like that.

Speaker 1 (01:38:12):
Now, how did it affect you? Because I would imagine
you were.

Speaker 4 (01:38:14):
Under contract on contract to my contracts up w W
paid me just like they paid everyone else.

Speaker 3 (01:38:21):
Did Vince ever try and buy out earlier or anything
like that.

Speaker 4 (01:38:24):
No, Well, I'm crippled at that point. I have no
sense and I mean, I know I couldn't have helped
anybody at that point.

Speaker 2 (01:38:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:38:31):
Did did anybody ask you to come to the Last
Night tro or did they know since you were hurt
you couldn't.

Speaker 2 (01:38:36):
I couldn't even travel?

Speaker 1 (01:38:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:38:38):
Wow?

Speaker 3 (01:38:39):
And uh, you know after when when Vince started integrating
w CW into his storylines and his television, did anybody
try and contact to her?

Speaker 1 (01:38:47):
Did they know how severely injured you are? U?

Speaker 4 (01:38:52):
Vince never contacted me. This is funny. You know, when
your first started T and A UP, he had no
one's name to put up there the show, the sponsors
that you know they had. He called me and asked me,
and I game a letter, letter of recommendation or whatever
you call it, saying I was working for the company,
which I was.

Speaker 2 (01:39:13):
I was on a walker. That was the only person
asked me to do that.

Speaker 4 (01:39:17):
That's what's strange, too, is all the things I did
to help those guys, you know, because they called and
asked me to come in and do some things. But
I was honest with them. I don't want to work
for those guys unless I could know. I'm not going
to work events, right, you know, because I wouldn't do
something small.

Speaker 2 (01:39:31):
Right, right.

Speaker 3 (01:39:33):
You know, I don't know how much you watched or anything,
but did you watch the way that that w W
was integrated into WWE TV at all?

Speaker 2 (01:39:42):
Not much of it?

Speaker 1 (01:39:43):
No, I was wondering, you know what you thought about?

Speaker 3 (01:39:46):
If you would think that something like that would be
an angle you could run with.

Speaker 2 (01:39:50):
For then well that's what I was saying earlier.

Speaker 4 (01:39:53):
Yeah, I think there's were the spot that they could
have started off from scratch and said okay and made
this into a big few.

Speaker 2 (01:40:00):
First of all, I wouldn't have made a big deal
about to sell.

Speaker 4 (01:40:03):
Vince was too and I saw Vince he was too
happy to get up there and talk bad about Ted Turner.
It was over after that interview they knew Vince had won.
I wouldn't have done that. I would have worked it
as a Hey. I would have never said anything. I
let the people thought what they wanted to think about.
I would try to keep the sell quiet even and
let the two companies run, you know, in existence by themselves,

(01:40:25):
then all of a sudden make the two like nations collide.

Speaker 2 (01:40:28):
They never did do that.

Speaker 4 (01:40:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:40:30):
Probably if you're vincing you just bought it, why would
you go out trashing something you own.

Speaker 4 (01:40:34):
Now, it doesn't make sense that and it didn't make
you know, that's not to me Vince's philosophy.

Speaker 2 (01:40:39):
I think that might have been some vindictive booking.

Speaker 1 (01:40:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:40:42):
Do you think if Eric Bischoff would have bought the
w CW like he was talking about doing, you would
have been a big part of that.

Speaker 2 (01:40:48):
Yeah. Yeah, Eric was always good to me. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:40:51):
Did you I don't know if you were hurt yet.

Speaker 3 (01:40:53):
Were you there when it was announced that I think
it was announced of the boys anyway, that Bishoff bought
it and then obviously it.

Speaker 1 (01:41:01):
Didn't go through.

Speaker 2 (01:41:01):
Yes, I was there then.

Speaker 1 (01:41:02):
Oh, okay, Boshaw.

Speaker 4 (01:41:04):
And supposedly the people that do the ESPN classics were
doing a joint venture.

Speaker 3 (01:41:10):
Yeah, and they what do they do? They came in
and they said that he's gonna buy it and everything.

Speaker 2 (01:41:14):
Yeah, matter of fact that they were there the night
I broke my leg.

Speaker 1 (01:41:17):
Oh really yeah they were. Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:41:21):
You know, you talked about signing the letter of intent
with Jarrett and everything. And are you are you surprised
that they didn't try and at least get you involved
in in some way? I know you said you didn't
want to.

Speaker 2 (01:41:34):
Well, this is what I offered to them.

Speaker 4 (01:41:35):
I told him what my what I thought my time
schedule was for as I could do anything physical, I said,
but I have a great passion also to be a
booker or a creator.

Speaker 2 (01:41:44):
I don't know if you know this.

Speaker 4 (01:41:45):
I brought in Harlem heat'n their name, okay, and when
I was in the beginning, I had a really cool
gimmick for him with Robert Parker, Okay, I remember I
started him. I gave him that gimmick, bought that soup, point't,
gave his name, wrote all his interviews, did everything. But
I learned all this that had previously working for events.

(01:42:06):
I learned these tools with Harlem Heat and them. I
had a really cool idea for them. They really scarred
a little bit. And at the time Louisiana governor was
a really big gambler, and I said, you know, Colonel Parker,
being the flint boy the person he is, he had
won a gambling debt and the governor of Louisiana, I
owed him so much money, just couldn't pay it. So
he said, he I want to I want to tell

(01:42:27):
you what. I want to take two people off death road.
I'm gonna make him into World Champions because I'm the
greatest promoter of all the time, Colonel Parker being exactly.
So he first introduced me as my coming in as
coming back, but I said, hey, if your interview you
said this was too easy.

Speaker 2 (01:42:44):
I am the Elvis Frashley, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:42:46):
So you're going to take two people or just you know,
have nothing going for him in their lives and you're
gonna make them into Elvis's. And so I met Carlem
heat doing a benefit for Kerry Van Eric and I said,
I'm gonna bring these guys in. It took me for
ever to get those guys to come in dust he
didn't want them, nobody wanted them. But when I got
him there, it was like the greatest thing that ever happened. Yeah,

(01:43:06):
you so, but that's what I st wanted to do
for tn A I could do, you know, I wanted
to book I knew they didn't have any great bookers,
you know, any better than me. I could have had
a chance there. But that's why I really disappointed him
because they never offered that to.

Speaker 3 (01:43:22):
Yeah you have you ever talked to anybody that wanted
to start their own company and use you in an
office position like that?

Speaker 4 (01:43:30):
Well, almost all these little people that have across the
country have had ideas about trying to show up their territory.
They usually called me and asked me if I would
be interested in doing that, and I'd say yep, but
then they never start up.

Speaker 1 (01:43:43):
How come were you contacted to go over to Australia
the w W A that Andrew McManus thing, and why
didn't that work out? I did go, You did go.
What do you remember about? How come that didn't work out?
You know what?

Speaker 2 (01:43:59):
All right, it's sort of ironic.

Speaker 4 (01:44:01):
I was over in Australia doing the promotional thing for
w CW's first thing over there at the time. Andrew
McManus was there doing a show with Kurt Henning versus
Dennis Rodry and they weren't doing too bad. They were
doing pretty good. And then I was introduced with Andrew
or he got touched me over the phone.

Speaker 2 (01:44:19):
I had to go. I was on a wheelchair going
over there. Man.

Speaker 4 (01:44:22):
Wow, So I was there. I flew over there, did
the show. We came right back. That's how quick it was.

Speaker 5 (01:44:28):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:44:28):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:44:29):
Do you think they could have done anything if you got.

Speaker 2 (01:44:31):
TV or I think they could have. I thought Andrew
may Manus.

Speaker 4 (01:44:34):
You know, you know, and especially I've met you know,
all the top people of both territories. I think he
could have done pretty good. Wow, And I think he
had the money. It showed he had the money. It
just you know, if you just you know, you know,
he had a good team, say of the mine's behind him,

(01:44:56):
because he couldn't have done it by himself.

Speaker 2 (01:44:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:44:59):
Do you think because you worked for him in the past,
Jerry Jarrett, I know he was in the running two
by w c W. If he would have bought w
c W and had that, do you think he would
have been successful? Do you think he still would have
had that territorial mentality about him.

Speaker 4 (01:45:14):
I want to have to say that I think he
had that territorial mentality about him. And while we would
say that, you look at their show today. You know,
first of all, you know it's Jeff Jeff, Jeff, Jeff
Jeff Jeff. Now he's a baby face. That's almost that's
that's like death for that territory.

Speaker 2 (01:45:31):
In my opinion.

Speaker 4 (01:45:33):
You know, for you take, for instance, say if I
came in there one of the most credible hills in
the business and then I put him over, you don't
have nowhere to go, and he's not gonna draw any
money by himself, right. I just don't think that, you know,
I just don't. I just don't think they can get
away from that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:45:52):
Yeah, as Oh, there was a story that I read
somewhere on one of those urban legends things back when
you were in your younger duds, that used to bring
a squirrel on the road with you. Is that true? No,
that's not true. Do you know the story I'm talking about?

Speaker 2 (01:46:07):
Yes, go ahead.

Speaker 4 (01:46:08):
Had somebody asked me about this, well, I don't really
know what the old deal is about.

Speaker 3 (01:46:12):
It was a story somebody said in an interview that
he used to travel with a pet squirrel and the
boys bet you to stick it down in your pants
and you got bit by a squirrel and to go
get a technis shot.

Speaker 2 (01:46:22):
No. No, I hadn't even been squirreled any twenty years. No.

Speaker 4 (01:46:28):
Actually I got a dog right now. I'm training to
be a squirrel dog. Okay, but just for the sport,
not for the kill. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:46:37):
Are you surprised that I got it?

Speaker 3 (01:46:38):
You work a lot with in your time to the
Dowe Undertaker, Are you surprised that at his agent in
size that he's able to still.

Speaker 1 (01:46:46):
Go and go at a really high level too.

Speaker 4 (01:46:47):
Yeah, I am. You know, he's a few years younger
than me. But it realized too. He goes at a
high level, but then he also goes at a really
slow level too. He's able to walk around and do nothing.
I say, not to do nothing but pace himself. But yeah,
I mean for that guy that you know, and I'm
seeing the bruises on him from dropping that elbow off

(01:47:09):
the top rope and him do it night after night
after night after nine is this and this old legs
a solid bruise. Uh, It's just a testimony how hard
you know, what pain let will he would go through
to succeed.

Speaker 3 (01:47:22):
Yeah, as a guy that works incredibly hard on on
your physique and your body. What do you think nowadays
of w B having this whole steroid policy involved where
you have all the guys they push on TV that
have the big bodies, and yet they have.

Speaker 1 (01:47:39):
This It's almost like a double edged sword, it seems.

Speaker 4 (01:47:44):
You know, I'm really unfamiliar with I'm only hearing this
story through some wrestling fans, and I'll just give you
an example. I heard Kurt Angle was fingered out for
whatever reason either and I just assumed either he had
you know, said the wrong thing or done something and
they target him out for that. But yet then you know,

(01:48:04):
you you know as well as I do. This thing
that just came out with.

Speaker 1 (01:48:08):
The story and Sports illustrated about all those guys.

Speaker 6 (01:48:11):
Yeah, yeah, Shane Helms and Shane Helms and Angle I
think was it and that other guy there was somebody
else or right.

Speaker 2 (01:48:24):
And now this is what they're retract this.

Speaker 4 (01:48:29):
This is w W statement afterwards that as long as
these guys are in the doctor's supervision, we had no
problem with it. So that tells you, you know, and
from my opinion, my opinion, this mean it's right. This
isn't the NFL, and if it was even NFL, I

(01:48:50):
believe these guys they got to do what they got
to do to make money. And if they make their
football career last a little longer and they want to
shorten their life up, that's their business. We're independent contractors. Supposedly,
I think, surely not. We shouldn't go to buildings on
cocaine or heroin or things like that. But if you two,

(01:49:12):
I think steroids have gotten set the bad rap. They
don't really know really the good size of it, and
they don't know. If these doctors are prescribing and they're monitoring,
they're not going to do that if there was any
really bad repercussions. They never have targeted really anyone death
steroids other than La Lasao, and they can't target that
to him.

Speaker 2 (01:49:34):
So I just think that if the guys want to, and.

Speaker 4 (01:49:40):
Especially if you're an independent contractor, as long as you
don't get in trouble with it and you're doing it
by the law, I don't think you should have a
bottle with it.

Speaker 1 (01:49:48):
Is it true back in ninety two that you failed
the steary tests when you were in WWE back then
or you.

Speaker 2 (01:49:56):
Know, well, say ninety two, is that when I came
into cycles.

Speaker 3 (01:50:01):
It was no, it was this was the first time
you were in there, and you just headlined WrestleMania inst
Hogan and then uh and then you were out for
a little while.

Speaker 4 (01:50:10):
And some say, what happened There was no. I never
was busted for a steroid test. But what happened was this,
you know, after that WrestleMania when is when all those
indictments came down on dance and stuff, and there was
a no tolerance policy. Right, so everybody got tested in
the beginning for who had been on him was going

(01:50:33):
to be tested positive, right, And so I was tested
positive because I hadn't got out of my system yet.

Speaker 2 (01:50:38):
Yeah, but it.

Speaker 4 (01:50:39):
Wasn't no big deal about it. The big deal there
was this. I went first into Bence. Know what it
was is Simvil you knows. Boat came in and took
over w c W. He came to me Montomery Alabama
said look, I'm going to be out here.

Speaker 2 (01:50:53):
I want you. I want you to be my man.

Speaker 4 (01:50:56):
And so to do that, I want you to sign
a new contract for four or five years, new money
though nine yards. So they brought me in. We started negotiating.
I said, man, maybe this is a time for mentelfament
man and I did?

Speaker 2 (01:51:09):
I called, I mean they put me through right away?
This man, Yeah, I got How'd I get this guy
this quick?

Speaker 4 (01:51:14):
He said, what do you Well, I'm negotiating a new
deal and I'm actually I'm able to talk to someone
you know, dearing this he said, Well, he flew me
up the very next morning. Wow, laid all this stuff
up the table. Ask me what I wanted. I said,
I want a h God spot you know, I wanted
to that spot. He said, okay, that's your spot, and
this is what goes with So I went home time

(01:51:36):
I got home that afternoon. Now c W Fine Hour
was there. They come to the table with more money,
you know, more French benefit or more you know, things
that make it, you know, something attractive. So I said, okay, well,
I'm not going to go. I'm not going to talk
to him. I'm not Also, I'm not going to make
I'm not going to play the game in between two people.

(01:51:56):
I'm gonna let work yourself out. I'm gonna stay at
W c W and go on that and said I
was going out to do that morning. Vince caused me, hello,
oh man, I'm sorry, mister man. I wasn't gonna call
you to play that, you know, in between the fences here,
I'm gonna go ahead and side to deal with W
c W and maybe down the road we would work

(01:52:16):
for each other.

Speaker 2 (01:52:16):
He goes, no, Sid, you don't understand. You don't come now,
you don't get this deal. Wow.

Speaker 4 (01:52:21):
So it's like, man, So I went in told c
W I'm gone, and I walked out. And that's why
happened with me and the W w the first time
they pulled everything they said they were going to do
with me, changed everything if hog and changed his mind.
And so then I remember weaving Albany. I went to
Vince and said, hey, I want to shake my hand.

Speaker 2 (01:52:41):
I'm out of here. I'm quitting.

Speaker 4 (01:52:43):
You know when I'll come back, when we can, you know,
the things will stay like they were supposed to have stayed.
And then the truth that I was honest, I just
wasn't mature enough or savvy enough for for a territory
like that. So he wouldn't shake my hand, wouldn't talk
about it to them, only be there up to WrestleMania,
and that's where I pretty much ended, you know, did

(01:53:05):
a few shots after that with the Warriors, which was weird.

Speaker 1 (01:53:09):
Yeah, is he as weird as everybody says that he is.

Speaker 4 (01:53:11):
This is this is what really made me quit. We're
in Baltimore. He's sitting there. I said, we've worked the
night before, you know, the next night with the Boston Guarden.
The first night was Baltimore. He goes, okay, and we'll
come in and close on our clothesline. Clothes line, closed line,
clothes line. You powdered. I said, no, Jim, this is
what we'll do. You'll come in, I'll close on you.
I'll send you off up my clothesline. Give me one

(01:53:32):
clothes line. Then I powdered and you shake all of
up you want. He goes, well, the stars kill me
the Ultimate Warrior, and those are small dressings. At the
Baltimore I was like, where is this camera at somebody's
bullshitting me, you know. So I left out of the
room and once when the agents, I said, come on, guys, no,

(01:53:54):
this is real. Then you go back in here. So
then the stars are lined up and I said, okay.
The first night I did it. So we went to Boston.

Speaker 2 (01:54:02):
The next night.

Speaker 4 (01:54:03):
I told him, I said, no, he's not kicking out
of my finish. If he kicks out of my finish tonight,
I go home tomorrow morning and I never come back.
And that's what happened. Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:54:10):
Wow, that's where we left off.

Speaker 4 (01:54:13):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:54:14):
Are you surprised when Vince started wrestling himself in the
ring and then kind of continued doing so?

Speaker 4 (01:54:20):
Yeah, I am, because I actually asked him about that
once before when I first worked there, and he told
me he would never do that because you know, one
we know this as an owner comes into the territories
and you know, participates as a character. That's the greatest
form of heat you can achieve. Okay, so where will

(01:54:41):
you go after that? There's nowhere to go after that?

Speaker 2 (01:54:44):
All right?

Speaker 4 (01:54:45):
Saying that the guy's done everything, you know, and this
has happened over the last few years. He's had somebody
put his ass in his face, you know, he's had
and then he did the last thing in person can
do is lose his hair. But yet I saw the
other night he's sitting there, looks like he's still wrestling
someone that needs a channel.

Speaker 1 (01:55:00):
He's wrestling since Sunday on paper for me.

Speaker 4 (01:55:03):
Yeah, So you know, I am surprised about it because
Money told me how and we know that how hard
that is as a manager character, and that's what he is,
a manager.

Speaker 2 (01:55:12):
He's not a wrestler.

Speaker 4 (01:55:13):
That they're short lived start with and if you beat
him up once, it's over, and if you cut their hair,
it's definitely over.

Speaker 3 (01:55:18):
So I am a little surprised, yeah, because you know,
you wrestled in the territories for a while in Memphis
would do that a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:55:24):
Somebody would lose the hair of hers hair and they'd
be gone and out of there.

Speaker 3 (01:55:29):
I ran an interview once that somebody asked you about
comparing yourself to Steve Austin the Rock, and you had
a really interesting quote. You said that they drew money
once in their career, where you actually drew money throughout
your career.

Speaker 4 (01:55:42):
Well, and I've been more successful almost in anybody in
the business. For every time I've been put in that position,
I drew money. I drew big money. I set indoor
tennis records of different buildings across the country. So those
guys when it came in, and I'm not trying to
knock any of them, but Austin was in this business
for a long time. Uh, he was in w w
F before I got there, and the ship place was

(01:56:05):
on his ass when I came into place caught fire.
Now Austin, you know, was a recipient of that. I
you know, of course he did well and kept it going,
but he kept it going once it was already up, yeah,
you know, and then when it went down, he didn't
bring it back up. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:56:21):
Now, you know, the business has changed a lot, obviously
over the last couple of years. Do you think if
you went back to the w B today you can
still be a big draw with him.

Speaker 2 (01:56:29):
I think I'll be the biggest straw. Really. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:56:31):
Wow, you know today the road schedule is, you know,
it's getting pretty intense over there. And you know, i'd
imagine as you get older, you're like your days at home.
Do you think you can still handle road schedule like
that a full time do to f road schedule?

Speaker 4 (01:56:47):
Well, first of all, you know, my road schedule on
the road was ten times tough for anybody else's sorry,
I got up. I was employing to my second workout
when people were just waking up, So that's never been
a problem. And when I was when I think about
road schedules, I worked for w c W one summer
with only one day off through the whole summer. Wow,
vincing them schedules a lot lighter than it used to be.
When I worked for Vince, we worked twice on Saturdays

(01:57:09):
and Sundays at twelve o'clock show and after in the
evening show. And we did that seven days a week,
you know, with very little time off. And if I
did have a day off, I was doing promotional stuff.
So they couldn't put anything tough for me than I've experienced.

Speaker 1 (01:57:22):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:57:22):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:57:23):
And you know we talked about this a little earlier
in the last shoot we did. You know, at the
end of the shoot you were at the time real
angry at Vince and you were talking about doing the
steps the bleachers, and you know you said it every
time you think about, you know, the way that you
were treated and the way things went down. But you
seem a little more forgiving this time around. Why the
change of actus just mature?

Speaker 1 (01:57:43):
Okay, you know, I.

Speaker 4 (01:57:44):
Understand this, It's a job as a business I can't
take everything personal. At that time, I was, of course,
I felt like I was lied to a little bit
at that point. But other than that, you know, I
still would you know, just I think maturities are probably
the most the biggest why I could see you in two.
I've always said this from the beginning, that I can

(01:58:05):
only achieve the things that want to achieve working for
fans and that have to like the gap.

Speaker 3 (01:58:10):
Yeah, do you think there's something to be said for
the fact that before you made it to the big time,
before you went to ww you made it to the WWF.
At that time, you spend a lot of time on
the territories in Continental and Memphis and you know, and
you went back to Memphis throughout your career. Do you
think there's something to be said today where guys just
get shot right to the top and don't have that.

Speaker 4 (01:58:31):
Time or well, you don't learn the respect for the
business when you know, all of a sudden, you know,
you from making forty dollars a night like I was
in Continental and Memphis to making forty thousand dollars a
week or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:58:45):
You know, it's hard to appreciate it, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:58:49):
And I've seen so many people change because of that,
because they and I've seen people change the work the
small territories and they an't got their breaks too.

Speaker 2 (01:58:57):
I don't know if it's a big thing, but I
think it's not a good thing.

Speaker 4 (01:58:59):
I'll tell you a guy who really did well and
they really took him around the hard way was Kurt Angle.
When Kurt Angle first started and was signed with WWF,
he was working in the Memphis territory.

Speaker 2 (01:59:11):
Right he was working the.

Speaker 4 (01:59:13):
Louisville territory and working for events and probably on unscheduled matches.
You know, i't advertised just being there. He was working
seven days a week. He's one of the people, probably
one of the last people who really worked themselves into
a good spot.

Speaker 5 (01:59:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:59:26):
Now, if for some reason you never went back to
w WE, you know, as an active wrestler, you never
wants TNA wrestling.

Speaker 1 (01:59:33):
Career ended today. Do you think that you should be
inducted into their Hall of Fame?

Speaker 4 (01:59:39):
I think so because I think I know I've done,
you know, so much more than just some of the
people that have been inducted recently.

Speaker 2 (01:59:45):
You know, Jerry Lawler was one. He's never going to
equal anything I've done. Rig flairir either.

Speaker 4 (01:59:53):
So many guys have been around a long time, they
still not gonna equal what I've done. So I think
that I should. If I'm not, I'm not go worried
about it because it doesn't really mean that.

Speaker 3 (02:00:01):
Much, you know, nothing that that I want to go
down the road of, you know, unless you want to
a bashing Ric Flair. But actually I just had a
conversation with Paul Windworf the other day and his opinion
is that Flair got the push that he had because
he was a good politicker and kissed a lot of
your ends.

Speaker 4 (02:00:20):
Do you agree with I'll say a little bit, probably so,
But then you haven't realized Ric Flair was after Holly Race.
He was one of the last real world champions. He
went from territory to territory, working as a world champion,
working Howard matches every night. I just think he was
in a good place at a good time, and then

(02:00:41):
his name and character and PRISIONA just followed him, and
I think he still follows him today.

Speaker 2 (02:00:47):
I don't think.

Speaker 4 (02:00:48):
I definitely don't think he's in a business day because
of being an ass kisser. I think he's in there
because his ability to work.

Speaker 3 (02:00:53):
I was going to ask you, are you surprised that
he's still wrestling a full time schedule even today?

Speaker 4 (02:00:58):
No, I'm not, because I don't realized he loves this
like I love it, and me and him don't think
of age you.

Speaker 1 (02:01:06):
Can relate to his mentality.

Speaker 3 (02:01:07):
But then I read an interview with Lenny Lane from
and he said, the thing about you is that you'd
like to rib people when they think they aren't being.

Speaker 1 (02:01:18):
Rigged, and that some of your classic sid ribs, as
he calls it, is you know when you don't think
you're being ribbed. Is that an accurate statement?

Speaker 2 (02:01:27):
That's true? I'll give you one.

Speaker 1 (02:01:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:01:30):
The last real rib I did to someone was Billy Kidman.
I was just tired of his little crap, and I
took his bag and put it up in the ceiling
offs so he never found his bag again. No one
ever think of me doing that because I don't do
things right. He hadn't done do anything anything to me personal.
I just didn't like the way his attitude was. Yeah,
for a little guy.

Speaker 1 (02:01:50):
What do you think about the effect that the internet
has had on wrestling over the last couple of years.

Speaker 4 (02:01:55):
I think it's just been it's it's been good, but
I think it's been more bad than good. And the
reason why is this, And everybody I talk to you
about this is this. You know, like a guy just
recently did a little show back in Memphis. He thought,
because he had so many hits on his Internet site
that he was going to sell this place out. He
had like fifty people show up. We rely too much
on that Internet. We've got the simple things about this

(02:02:18):
business to make it work. Is always going to be there.
It's not going to change. Internet is not going to
sell you out of anything. You know, it's Joe Lockhart,
used to be a spokesman for Bill Clinton, said a
great you know, it's a great great tool, but it's
also it could be a horrible two hitted monster.

Speaker 3 (02:02:35):
Do you think that in the wrestling business overall that
they should have some kind of retirement plans set up
or or some kind of benefits or something for the
guys or do you think the guys should be personally
responsible for that kind of thing and girls?

Speaker 2 (02:02:49):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:02:51):
I really don't think that they know. I think we
know what we're getting into when we get into that business.
Just like acting, there's really a lot of you know,
retirement for actors. Yeah, and when you're making good money
like that, you should be able to set some back
and do life by you know. Now, if you're playing
football and it's a commission and these people are you know,

(02:03:16):
putting their license the line, the.

Speaker 2 (02:03:19):
Careers are so much shorter. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:03:21):
I just don't think wrest of it. I mean, it'd
be nice to have, but us don't see it happening.
And I'll see why it should happen. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:03:28):
Again, as a guy that spent a lot of time
in the territories years ago, and you said you've done
some indies, you know, over the last stop with a
couple of years, a couple of months. What do you
think is missing today from the Indies as compared to
what was in the territories years ago.

Speaker 4 (02:03:43):
Well, television one, that's gonna be your main thing that
the injuries don't have the others, you know, back in
the days of the territories. So instance like this, excuse
me for example, you know, I say I worked at
Texas Territory of divine Erics that have had my run there,
then they're gonna go, Okay, well we're gonna find your job.
We're gonna call Memphis and we're gonna tell him what
a good guy you are, what you did here and

(02:04:05):
there you're on the independence that don't really work like that,
and the independence are sporadic and they're and they're really
far apart.

Speaker 2 (02:04:12):
So I don't think I think that's a downfall for it.

Speaker 3 (02:04:16):
And uh, in your opinion, in your opinion as a
student of the game, what do you think draws more
money for a territory of promotion?

Speaker 1 (02:04:22):
A great worker or a great big man.

Speaker 4 (02:04:27):
Well, it's gonna have to be a great big man
that can work. Doesn't mean have to do it moon
salt off the top road, but he's got to have
some psychology and a sense for the business. Yuh, just say,
for instance, Alegante, he was a big man, but he
never drew money. I didn't have a sense for the business,

(02:04:48):
you know. So I think you can have both with
I think a big man with all the tools are
going to be better better than a.

Speaker 2 (02:04:57):
Small man with all the tools. Gotcha.

Speaker 1 (02:04:59):
Do you think that the big man will always dominate
the business in some form?

Speaker 4 (02:05:04):
And there's a reason for this too, if you weren't
so educated for wrestling and knew so much about it,
you know. I remember as a kid were seeing things
like carnivals and stuff like that. You wanted to see
the strong man definitely. And we understand about this thing
about our business. We do understand is that if everybody
was like me and Undertaker and Batista and Goldberg, and

(02:05:26):
we didn't have Sean Michaels who were great workers and
other people like John Cena's and stuff like that, then
we're not going to be big.

Speaker 2 (02:05:33):
You know. We have to have that both.

Speaker 4 (02:05:34):
But I think the big man will always be the
big draw because if you look at anything in boxing
other than Oscar de la Hoya, the big draw is
always a heavyweight fight, right, you know, that's I think
that's just goes with you know, with where the world is.

Speaker 2 (02:05:50):
Everybody, everybody wants to see someone bigger.

Speaker 1 (02:05:52):
Than life, I think, and I love to hear your
opinion on this.

Speaker 3 (02:05:55):
I think that's a big problem with the independence is
that everybody looks like the guys in the audience and that.

Speaker 1 (02:06:01):
There's no bad It really stands out.

Speaker 2 (02:06:03):
You hit it right on the head right there, you know.
You know that's what I just said.

Speaker 4 (02:06:08):
When you come to a wrestling event, or you go
to a bodybuilding protest, or you go to someone, you
want to see someone bigger than you, you know, or
something impressive, and even if you're a big guy like me,
you're impressed by someone who's big also, right. Uh.

Speaker 1 (02:06:21):
Do you ever think about writing a book?

Speaker 4 (02:06:23):
Yeah, that's something I want to do. That's something I'm waiting,
you know, for this next run. You know, if I
get it with the events, I want to have a
two part book. Actually, I want to do the last
part of my career first and then the first part
of my career second.

Speaker 1 (02:06:36):
Why how come that?

Speaker 2 (02:06:37):
Well?

Speaker 4 (02:06:38):
I wanted I think it would be important for the
people to know what I've been through over the last
six seven years and what it took to get back
to where I'm at, and then then talk a little
bit about what's going on at that point, that be
the end of that book. And then then when I
finished wrestling and I could tell all about what happened,
you know, getting too wrestling, gotcha?

Speaker 3 (02:06:57):
Would you take it if w B kind attacking you
and said we don't have anything for you in the ring,
but we like to give you an agent job to
work with some of our bigger guys and teaching psychology
and that kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (02:07:08):
Well, I've avoid and that's something that I've made clear too.
I want to do that one day. I really want
to help run a territory, you know. That's what I
think I really can't do. But to get there, you're
going to have to start to learning. If it had
to be started just teaching some people some psychology. I'll
give you a good example, Obie Anderson. That's how he
got how I met him. He was teaching me how
to be attacking, you know, with Danny Spotty, how to

(02:07:31):
cut off the ring, how to smother person, blah blah
blah blah blah.

Speaker 2 (02:07:34):
Teaching me and people like that, and all of a sudden.
He was the booker, you know.

Speaker 4 (02:07:37):
So I think those are things of how you can
be successful in a small part and then what this
guy looks like you can do something was give him
a bigger part.

Speaker 1 (02:07:46):
Was it was only really influential to helping you develop
early on in your career.

Speaker 4 (02:07:50):
Yeah, I think, in my opinion, Obie Anderson the smartest
person I've ever met for this business.

Speaker 1 (02:07:55):
Wow, that says a lot. You've met a lot of people.

Speaker 2 (02:07:58):
Yeah, he's he's just so intelligent, just a hard, hard worker.

Speaker 4 (02:08:05):
Just you know, he's not old school like people think
he is, or he wouldn't have gotten all that trouble
with the Black Scorpion that was way above that was
too futuristic, that would be old school.

Speaker 2 (02:08:17):
So I think he was.

Speaker 4 (02:08:19):
We definitely, I know this is I can make disappoint
He's ahead of his game by this point. So me
and Vader were tagging up working against Steing Davy. Boy,
you know, we had these beings we did. They had
on cheering us. We had our own cheering section, so
that sort of made the bad guys with the Hills cheerable.

(02:08:39):
So he was already starting that ten years before it happened.

Speaker 3 (02:08:43):
I'm curious for your thoughts on this only also wasn't
involved in that Horseman DVD. They want to be Yeah,
because after Vince took over Georgia, he said heven never
take a check from him, and he still stands by that.

Speaker 4 (02:08:55):
Vow I talked, Toldie that's not really the real reason.
Oh okay, real reason is this. He was just not
physically able to get to the airport and it was
a hassle toing. He doesn't need the money, and that
was the most That was more of the reason it
wouldn't They didn't want to check eventsley.

Speaker 1 (02:09:10):
Man, gotcha?

Speaker 2 (02:09:12):
You know, I don't believe that. Gotcha.

Speaker 1 (02:09:15):
Uh, you know some over the years, it's been put
out there. Oh sid loves to take off during a
softball season. Is that true?

Speaker 2 (02:09:22):
No, it's not. I'll tell you how that got started.

Speaker 4 (02:09:25):
What happened was the very first time that you know,
I told you about to deal Evans walking out to Boston.
It was summertime. But it took my attorney like three
four months to get me out of my contract with
w c W. I'd already had one waiting for me,
so it took them that long to get me out
of my contract with WF.

Speaker 2 (02:09:44):
So all I did was play softball, you know, And
this seemed like when little things like that.

Speaker 4 (02:09:51):
Happened for me, it was around softball season, and so
I played professional softball, not just you know, little pickup teams.

Speaker 1 (02:09:58):
Oh okay, wow did you ever? Did you play collegiate
baseball or no?

Speaker 2 (02:10:03):
No?

Speaker 1 (02:10:03):
Did you play any sports in college or no?

Speaker 2 (02:10:06):
No? Okay?

Speaker 3 (02:10:08):
Who throughout your career were some of your favor and
for whatever reason, maybe you just didn't have good chemistry
or whatever, least favorite guys who work with.

Speaker 5 (02:10:24):
Oh Man.

Speaker 1 (02:10:30):
Sounds like Scott Steiner was.

Speaker 2 (02:10:31):
Scott was tough, you know, working with Brett was a
little tough. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:10:36):
Well I didn't not want to work with him though,
But you know, like Elleganta guys who were so limited
they couldn't do much. Yeah, I think people like that.
I didn't really have anyone I just didn't want to
work with.

Speaker 1 (02:10:48):
Yeah, who are who are the guys that you really really.

Speaker 2 (02:10:51):
Liked working with? Well?

Speaker 4 (02:10:53):
I always top of the list with these steam. I
put Bam Bam Bigelow up there. I put Vader up there.
The reason I like working with those guys and Sean Michaels.
But they were all work courses, and I'm a work
horse and I like to work hard every time out.
These guys never took a night off.

Speaker 3 (02:11:12):
What do you think about when people need comparisons to
you and Batista? I don't know how much you've seen
of Batista. I haven't really heard any of the comparisons.

Speaker 1 (02:11:19):
He's big, he's explosive, real physical.

Speaker 2 (02:11:22):
Yeah, I don't know if I hear comparison. If I do,
but I don't hear me any.

Speaker 4 (02:11:28):
I'm flattered as someone comparison with them to someone else
who's right now in a good spot, if they think that,
And of course he's got to be thinking the same
because I'm before him. Yeah, so would probably that question
wud be be more directed to him, how he feels
being compared to me?

Speaker 1 (02:11:44):
What are your thoughts on newsletters in the wrestling business?

Speaker 4 (02:11:48):
Never read one, never read one, never never ever read one,
never will never read a magazine.

Speaker 2 (02:11:53):
I never look at magazines.

Speaker 4 (02:11:54):
Okay, first of all, back in when I first started,
there was only a couple of letter magazines letters. These
people never wrestled before in their life. And if I'm
looking for a validation, I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna
ask Odie Anderson or Robert Fuller or Vince McMahon. I'm
not gonna listen to a dirt.

Speaker 2 (02:12:11):
Shoot, all right.

Speaker 3 (02:12:12):
Do you have throughout your career, like maybe one or
two mentors that you've always stayed in touch with, no
matter where you were, to say, hey, you know, can
you take a look at this or can I get
some advice from.

Speaker 4 (02:12:22):
You on this? I used to I always called Odeo
on things, and when I went back to w c W,
I used to call Pat Patterson. I'd call him as
a matter of fact, when they were giving me a
hard time with Harlem Heat, saying it was too racial.
I had these guys coming out, not wearing shackles and chains,
but bringing them out and putting them on their opponents,
taking these set of straps and strapping white people, okay,

(02:12:43):
and they said it was too racial. One reason they
said that because they didn't like it was because my
idea and I would look like I was taking over.
So I called Pat Pattison's I will said it could be,
but it's really not, you know, So I had I'd
get me an outside opinion, and Pat was one of them.

Speaker 3 (02:12:57):
Yeah, why do you think that over a lot of
couple of years that some of the younger guys once
they're giving the ball, I guess you would have to
say in w since there isn't a WCW anymore.

Speaker 1 (02:13:06):
But some of the guys just implode. They just can't
take it, and sometimes they ask not to have the
belt or the push anymore.

Speaker 4 (02:13:13):
Well, because there's so much pressure on you to succeed,
and when it's out here, only here right now, it's
really tough in there.

Speaker 2 (02:13:21):
Right now, they're not drawing very well.

Speaker 4 (02:13:23):
And when you're that person or you're the main event,
you know, you get all the criticism when it doesn't
do well, you get all the you know, the accolades
when it is well. But then you know, you're I'm
sure these dirt sheets there's things that people do reading
It really is tough on them to read this about themselves. Uh.

Speaker 1 (02:13:39):
You know, at any point, looking back at your career,
did you ever refuse to do a job for whatever
reason for somebody, Because you did a lot of them.
You you put a lot of guys over refuse one.
Never do you have any regrets of the way anything
worked out in your career. Only in my leg Yeah,
I wish I had to jump out of that road. Yeah,

(02:14:02):
what are some of looking back?

Speaker 3 (02:14:04):
If you had to maybe put a time capsule together,
maybe like five or six of your favorite matches that
you had, maybe for your great great grand soldiern down
the line.

Speaker 4 (02:14:13):
Well, I said once the match with Steak and Halloween
have it because I didn't even know the finish to
it happened.

Speaker 2 (02:14:19):
That's always gonna be my number one.

Speaker 4 (02:14:23):
You know, the match with Sean at the Alamodome, because
of the numbers of people, the one of who's you're
done with Hogan, because of the numbers of people there,
those always going to be the ones that stand.

Speaker 2 (02:14:33):
Out to me like that. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:14:35):
And do you think that you know, through the Internet
and the newsletters, the people that don't know you, do
you think there's a misconception about you is compared to
the people.

Speaker 2 (02:14:44):
That do know you and have worked with you. Yeah,
there is. You know, you gotta look at me. You
look at me.

Speaker 4 (02:14:50):
You you automatically think we'll get this. Guys mean or intimidating.
I've got this natural scour on my face. I'm pretty
much shay. And so when you put those two combinations,
you know, a mean looking person who doesn't talk a
lot that it also very loud when he speaks. You know,
people think I'm meaner than I really am one, you know,

(02:15:10):
like the deal about I've heard people say, well, sid
get sitting not happy, he takes his ball and goes
goes home with it. You just said I've done more
jobs than anybody. That's a false statement about me. I
have told, you know, like the time I was winning
the belt from Sean at SummerSlam. But you know, the
whole deal was, I was hit over, say, at the

(02:15:32):
area with that camera, and then I think Shawn as well,
then the power bomb, and then I knew I was
going to drop the belt back to him in his hometown.
I just thought it was a better decision just to
beat him clean. And then when he beat me clean,
it meant more. You know, I just told this. I
thought it was not, you know, not the smartest thing

(02:15:52):
to do. You know, I voiced my opinion about things
like that, but I said, hey, you're the boss, I'm
gonna do what you asked me.

Speaker 1 (02:15:58):
Yeah, during that time period too, Watts, I think what
was it.

Speaker 4 (02:16:01):
Jill Wats is another guy I like, they really get
to be around him that much. But he's a smart
guy too.

Speaker 1 (02:16:06):
Yeah, I like him too. I've had him on my
radio show and I like him a lot.

Speaker 2 (02:16:09):
I like him a lot.

Speaker 4 (02:16:10):
He's the one offered me a position in the company
to work as a booker first coming to interviewed for
my job back. He said, I'll tell you what said man,
I like you. He said, would you like to work
in the office with me? I said, that's what I want.
He's the first one brought me in.

Speaker 1 (02:16:23):
You know something I'd like to get your opinion on.

Speaker 3 (02:16:25):
Jerry Jarrett wrote a book and he said he thinks
the reason that a lot of the independents don't do
so well is because anybody that has a clue on
how to book and how to write or in the
w be and you know, they're brought up there signed
that kind of thing. There's there's not enough people out
there that have been there and experienced it, because if
they know what they're doing, they'd be up there well.

Speaker 4 (02:16:46):
I think a lot of the reasons independents don't do
as well as they could have, and mostly the independence
I've done up here, say fans over the years, under
people like Michael Brian, Dennis Corozo, people like that they
knew how to promote a show, and then you have
people who don't know anything about promotion. I think that's

(02:17:08):
probably the biggest problem in independence. It's just not the
right promotion, finding the right sponsors.

Speaker 3 (02:17:13):
Why do you think that you were always so over
no matter what role you were playing, he'll baby or whatever.

Speaker 4 (02:17:20):
In the northeast, you know what, the northern people and
I said this for it to the northern people, aren't
they're smarter?

Speaker 2 (02:17:28):
And I'm from the south. It's hard to say that
they're smarter. They're not.

Speaker 4 (02:17:32):
You can't program the northern fan, especially Northeastern fan. You
can't program disliking a person or a program to lack
of person. So when I came up to this area,
I always did real well because you know, they like
people who spit on people, you know, so I spied
on some when they enjoyed that, and so I just
think that that was just an automatic deal from that.

Speaker 1 (02:17:53):
That's what I always call the gardens really my hometown
in WCW. Anyway, you were really, you know from what
I'm remember, other than the horsemen, you were really one
of the first heels that were crazy cheered up in
this area with w CW the NWA. Crockett would come up.
Here were some of the guys back then that you
and Spotty were working with with a little frazzle to

(02:18:14):
be the basis they were.

Speaker 2 (02:18:16):
It was just frustrating.

Speaker 4 (02:18:17):
You got to realize, you know, uh, everything I did,
They cheered, Yeah, because I'd nip up out of the
head head sitsis, then catch the gather the clothesline. Then
they're getting back to the back. They said, just took
advantage of you. That's not that's a baby face spot.
You know it's a spot, right, And I was physically
able to do it. It's you know, six eight, six
nine or three hundred pounds to nip up. That's pretty impressive.

(02:18:38):
So I give example or dentist thing one time they
let he let the guys get under their skin about it,
and he said, hey, you take advantage of me. I said,
I said, Steve, this said, don't start like this. You
know this is you know this isn't going to work
out for you. Okay, yeah, the only thing you're going
to do is we're gonna get an argument. We don't
need to do that. So I said, don't want these
guys get under your skin, you know, he did the

(02:19:00):
next night was perfect.

Speaker 3 (02:19:02):
Wow. In wrapping up, is there anything I always like
to ask the person being interviewed they'd like to say
something to their fans, because obviously all their fans are
the ones that are buying these interviews.

Speaker 2 (02:19:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:19:13):
I do, and I've not had anything that would come
to me before if people asked me this question. But
I do this last night coming into New York to
Newark Airport. Every time I walk down the street, I
am so grateful to have people walk up to me
and not tell me that they remembered me. Everyone tells
me I was the best, and I mean hearing that

(02:19:36):
for my whole life. I know I had to touch
some people in the right way.

Speaker 1 (02:19:40):
Yeah, that's definitely well.

Speaker 3 (02:19:41):
We want to thank you, thank you for doing it,
and I guess we'll sit down on another ten years.
I hope will be quicker than that every ten years.
All right, very good, Thanks again for being here.

Speaker 2 (02:19:49):
Thank you. Thanks

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}💥 "Psycho Sid's Rampage: Career Shoot Road Warrior Wars, Steiner Shenanigans"

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist

All Episodes

💥 "Psycho Sid's Rampage: Career Shoot Road Warrior Wars, Steiner Shenanigans"

Stuff You Should Know