"The Bad Guy Speaks: nWo's Dark Truth Revealed 🗝️"

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Titlematchnetwork dot Com. Welcome to another edition of the RT
Video Shoot Interview series and it is an absolute pleasure
to be joined by one of the true legends of
the sport of professional wrestling.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Scott Hall. And we always like to ask how you
got in the business.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
So I always wanted to be wrestler since I was
a little kid.

Speaker 4 (00:21):
My father took me and my buddies to a wrestling
match when I was like eight years old, and I
was just hooks and said, I'll never forget. I don't
remember the guy's names, but it was a loser loses
hair match. I still had a piece of guy's hair,
and even at eight years old, my buddies were going, man,
this stuffs all fakes.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
That man, just let a guys shake your hair.

Speaker 4 (00:42):
And I just was hookes since then, you know. So
I never had a strict job. I worked in strip clubs.
I've been a wrestler. You know. It's all I ever
wanted to do. And I was really fortunate that, you know,
my dream came true.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Was it true that Barry Wyndham discovered you.

Speaker 4 (00:55):
Well, I was living in Orlando, working in strip clubs
there and in the ways and try to get big,
and I knew that the Florida Championship Prestling office was
in Tampa, but I know idea where So I moved
to Tampa and I joined every gym in the area. Wow,
just trying to hook and run into some of the boys.
And I was in a public's grocery store in Temple Terrace,

(01:19):
the suburb of Tampa, and I ran into Berry Winding.
And I've been buying tickets to go to all the shows,
you know. I'd see Berry at Sunday and Orlando Tuesday.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
In Tampa.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
I'd go to the tapings Wednesday in the Sportatorium in
Tampa and it was Barry Window. But I was really
shy about it. You know, I don't want to go
up to the mark out of the guys. But we're
both looking at stakes and we're going out and I
was Jack, you know, I was to ninety and Barry's
a really big guy too, and I was a huge
fan of his.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
And I remember, excuse.

Speaker 4 (01:47):
Me, Berry winning, but yeah, you're doing Simes got holl
He goes, what do you He said, what do you
play ball or something? You now, because at that time
they had the Tampa Bay Band, It's like the USFL,
the Buccaneers. So there's a lot of big There's a
lot of big jocks around. The rest is the football players.
I said no, I said, actually, I'm training with Hero Mass.
Suda said, I'm trying to get in your business and
I'll never forget. He went f hero Mass suit. He said,

(02:11):
he said, he said, all he'll have you doing is
Hindu squats around the building.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
I'll never forget, he said. He said, you know what
the sport toy is. I said yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:19):
He said, meet me down at tomorrow twelve. I said, okay,
So I said, sure, Barry Win is going to come
work out with me at the Sportatorium. So I got
there at eleven o'clock anyway early, and Barry Wyndham and
Mike Petenda showed up and they had me bump them
wow for two hours and.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
Then they had to go make a town that night.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
But they were like Barry would slam Mike and then
he'd say, okay, now you do it, and he would
watch me and see if I was doing it correct me.
I didn't take any bumps. I bumped them wow, and
it was unbelievable. And these are two major superstars. Let
some career ender bump them around, and I don't know
it was this And from then I still didn't know

(02:59):
that here mats suit.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
It was connected with the office idea.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
I was so green, I didn't know anything, you know,
and then but I guess, you know, the little networking
that was going on as well. Other kid has that
good attitude, blah blah blah, and it kind of just
for me. The way the wrestling business was is you're
on the outside. You're on the outside, you're on the outside,
and then when you're in, you're in full speed, like
all of a sudden, you're in. We need you in Charlotte.
Tomorrow took Dusty took the book in Charlotte, decided to

(03:25):
move from Tampa and.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
Charlotte, Like I munk Shaus.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, what was for you? What was
the hardest thing to pick up in training? What do
you mean the hardest?

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Like, was it the psychology, the bumping, the run of
the ropes?

Speaker 4 (03:40):
I remember, it's it's it's everything because when you're green,
you're just green.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
And I broke in in an era when.

Speaker 4 (03:48):
The television part of the business become me real important,
it wasn't so it was right that. You know, it
was right when the Warriors came along, Billy Jack. It
was at a time when it wasn't the guys who
were good performers and good workers. The guys who looked
apart were becoming more popular, you know, because the little

(04:10):
kids were going, well, I think that big muscle guy
can beat up that fat guy, even though the fat
guy might be a hell of a worker. The little
kid's going on, but I want to buy his doll.
I want the muscle guy's doll. So the business was
changing then. So there was a lot of fricking, a
lot of heat because I was kind of getting pushed
because I had to look but I didn't have any ability.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
But Dusty being a real smart guy. I'll never forget.
I was at the Edigraph Sports team, sit way.

Speaker 4 (04:37):
In the back and they had a little balcony where
you could sit up and watch the show where the
fans couldn't get near you. And I hadn't had a
match it I'm just sitting there watching the Dusty's sitting
behind me. He's whispering my ear and he's going and
Billy Jack Kynes well, Billy Jackets wrestling Black Bark and
Dusty's talking.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
To me in my ear and he's going, now he's overfelling. See,
he's all of a sudden the back there, he's doing it.
He's doing that dollar time for the fight back in
the minute, and he's saying all these things and I
don't understand it. I don't even.

Speaker 4 (05:03):
Get him, and I'm just doing the play like and
what what I've realized what happens to me is when
guys like Larry's biscus in my room now. And Larry
helped me a lot when I was an Awa and
with guys like Michael Hayes and Dusty and Barry and
different guys cross paths with my career. They would tell
me things and I wouldn't understand it at the time,

(05:24):
and then you'd be riding out a highway like two
years later and you go, oh, I know what he meant.
I know what he meant when he said fire, and
you know. And so for me, it was the moves
and stuff were easy to pick up. It's this is psychology.
Everybody develops their own style of it at their own rate.

(05:45):
But for me, the psychology is the most important thing.
And so guys like Kurt Hitting and Jick Roberts and
stuff like that. Dusty, yeah, kind of help me with that.
I don't know if the sure sure absolutely. Now, what
do you remember about teaming up with Dan Spivey early
in your career? Of them, well, I think what happened was,
see the road wheres were so red hot, and that
was only his creationally, you know, out of you know,

(06:07):
out of Georgia Championship Ethnty, so Dusty took you know,
I was big musclehead. Danny was a big musclehead. So
he threw us together and we were the American Starship.
I was coyote, he was the Eagle. But he took
two guys who'd never had matches and didn't know each other.
You know, we didn't know each other, so it was
you know, Danny's a super guy. He's a great athlete,

(06:30):
played ball at Georgia, he played for the Jets, you know,
I mean, a super athlete, super person. But we were
different people. He was a little bit older than me.
We didn't know each other, and I think really we
both wanted to be singles wrestlers, you know, if we
could have been and then again at the same time,
had we not had to suddenly move to Charlotte. Our

(06:52):
careers could have been way different if we just stayed
in the Dusty and stayed in Florida and groomed us
and built us, and we'd have been his warriors.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:01):
You know, if the Starship would have been groomed and
built in Florida, we probably would have been a major
success as attack team because Dusty would have built us
and groomed us at his own pace.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
We went to Charlotte for Crockett Promotions.

Speaker 4 (07:13):
Was a huge territory that was on its butt, and
Dusty had to go with talent that was ready to work.
We hadn't had a match, and we were too big
to do jobs and too green to be put over.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
So we just got of sat around.

Speaker 4 (07:27):
You know. We worked for the Charlotte Orioles. Jim Crockett
owned the Charlotte Orioles. So we were on the grounds
crew at a baseball park. Wow, that's what we did.
We sat around the dugout ragined one time, we built
the tar value.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Wow. And then the two of you went to Kansas
City for a little while.

Speaker 4 (07:43):
Well, Danny wasn't very happy about that. See, the thing
about working and Charlotte was you know, that's a big territory.
And when you did work, you got paid because this
is you know, eighty forty five. You know, you worked
one match and we were like opening match. You made
eight hundred nine under a thousand bucks for opening match
back then, Bro, that's good money. That's good money now.

(08:04):
I mean back then that was huge money. But we
only worked once a month because we were too green
to be on the road all the time. It's subs
in when they could, you know, yeah, and I was
in it. I had a different feel about the business
and Danny. I can't speak for Danny, but in my opinion,
I knew what I wanted and I wanted to be
in the ring all the time to learn because I
wanted to do this, And so I asked Dusty to

(08:28):
send me to Kansas City where Harley Race and Bob
Geigo were running it.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
Because it was a smaller territory.

Speaker 4 (08:34):
And I felt like, see, Charlotte was a big territory
in nationwide TV, and if you fell in your face.

Speaker 3 (08:40):
The whole world's going to know it and you're dead.

Speaker 4 (08:42):
So I wanted to be someplace where if I fell
on my face, just a reagion while audience, you know,
to see it, because you only get that one.

Speaker 3 (08:50):
Chance to make the first impression. Wow.

Speaker 4 (08:52):
So I wanted to get seasoned and learn how to
do interviews and be in gimmick matches and learned how
to be a main eventor even if it was on
a really small scale, so that when I, ever, god willing,
got to the big time, I would have some experience
of doing interviews and stuff like that. Because in Charlotte
we never did interviews or anything. We got paid good money.
I was making way less than Kansas City. But I
got to do interviews, I got to be in gimmick matches,

(09:14):
and Danny wasn't happy. I went and stayed there almost
a year. Danny stayed a couple months and went back
to Charlotte. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, we just did a shoot with him a couple
of months ago, and.

Speaker 3 (09:23):
Yeah, oh he did. He let me know. He's a
big redneck that you don't want.

Speaker 4 (09:28):
Mad.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
What do you remember about Harley Recee From that time.

Speaker 4 (09:32):
Harley was not working in the Kansas City territory much
because you know, he was a big star and it
wasn't much money there. Whenever he would work, he would
draw and you know, he was working in Japan, he
was working in Charlotte, and he was working in Texas.
You know, he was going to the bigger territories. The
one time, the only one time, I got into a
scuffle with Marty Jeannetti and I beat Marty's.

Speaker 3 (09:53):
Ass in the locker room. Wow, And I.

Speaker 4 (09:55):
Figured, and Marty was in tap baby face, and I figured, well,
I'm fired now because I just beat the hell out
He was asleep on a table and I beat the
hell out of him, and I fight dirty and I
beat his ass.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
And more tour I can't see.

Speaker 4 (10:11):
And I was walking under the tunnel back to the
heelside Martin's bay face. I was walking back to the
heelside because I figured, I'm fired now, screw it. I'll
go back to Florida's work, back to the strip pubs.
I can always get a job doing that. Yeah, I'm
walking through the thing, and you know, I'm pumped because
I just been in a fight. And I'm like, and
I'm too ninety and I'm young, and I don't have
any injuries. And I hear this, Hey Steve, Hey, Steve,

(10:36):
it's Harley. And I turned around, I go, are you
talking to me? Harley, because I figure I'm fired anyway, right,
I said, you're talking to me, Harley. I said, my
name is Scott Scott Hall. I said, I've been here
six f in months. My name is Scott Hall. Wow,
he would calm down, kid, And he comes over there,
you know, and he's so cool. He comes over there,
and I damnaged my knuckle because I was hitting him

(10:58):
like just like a while instead of boxing, and I
was just way on. I jammed my knuckle and a
little finger so hardly set my knuckle for me. And
then he goes, hey, kid, next time you do that ship,
do it after the show. Now the fucking guy can't work.
Excuse my sah and guy can't work. But that was

(11:20):
all he said. I thought I was fired and in trouble.
They didn't even care.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
Go get ready, kid, you're on.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (11:27):
It turned out to be a big angle that he
showed Marty all steer stuff and did an angle. Then
somebody else joked in the locker room because I was
low on the tow board. Couldn't have been be mister
Pogo beat him up.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Now, now, early on, when you were a younger guy
at that time, did any of the veterans ever trying
to test you in the ring or maybe even outside
the ring.

Speaker 3 (11:46):
No, everybody was pretty cool. I mean there was.

Speaker 4 (11:50):
I was a big red neck too, so nobody really
wanted to test me because I was pretty salty cat.
And when you don't have anything, you don't care, you
know what I mean, what are you gonna do? Sue me?
I got fifty bucks in the back, yeah, you know,
but really a lot of people helped me. I remember
the first time I ever got hit by by a
folding metal chair was by bruise of Brody in Kansas City.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (12:13):
And uh it was actually it was me and mister
Pogo against Brody. So Brody comes in, he's in the
locker room and he looks at me and I'm huge,
you know, and he goes, I can't have a good
singles match with you. What are we having a handicap for?
But you know, I'm going, I don't know, mister Brod.
You know, I don't have anything to do with the booking.
But so we're having our little match and Brody's over

(12:35):
like crazy ever he went, he's particularly over in Kansas City.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
So we we're out fighting on the floor.

Speaker 4 (12:41):
But he picks up the chair and he holds it
for a second, holds it for a second. I'm just
standing there like huh. And he just waffled me with
now and then later on he but a hat kid,
you know, turn and give me your back or you know,
or put your hands up. You know.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
I never been hit with the chairs. I didn't know
what to do. But so it's like, go, thank you,
mister broke. But nobody.

Speaker 4 (13:00):
I never had any nobody ever that I was aware of,
ever messed with me. You know, yeah, they might have
been doing it. I didn't know. I was so green.
What was the fight with Marty over There was a
dude named DJ Peterson. I remember to g Pearson See
and at that time two See had a different look.
I had curly brown hair, and of us that I
looked back the cowboy from the village people, and he

(13:22):
kind of looks Sam. Where we both muscled guys. And
what happened was we didn't stay over much there. We
drove to town and drove back, but every once in a
while we'd go way out in western Kansas something. We
would stay at a hotel. And what happened was DJ
and and Marty were really good buddies. And they stayed
at a hotel and when they checked in, they registered
at Scott Hall. So then they story has it they

(13:45):
trashed the room. So now the hotel calls wrestling office,
and the restauring office calls me, and and I'm so
sky job scared. You know, I want to beat a wrestler.
I didn't do anything wrong. I don't even you know,
I don't even drink back then, brother, I don't do
anything wrong, and so you know. And so they said, well,
we kind of have a feeling who it was, but

(14:05):
we just want to check with you. And I remember
asking Bob Brown, who was the booker bulldog Bob Brown,
and I said, up, I said, if I slap him
around a little bit, if I'm gonna get fired, you win, though,
so and I'm set for Redneck. When I went to
the show that night, I knew I was gonna fight.
I wore old clothes. I wore my old cowboy boots,
I wore a shirt that I might get blood on.

(14:26):
And I went in there and went right to Bayface
locker room and looked around for him and didn't see him,
and then turned around and there he was sleeping on
a table, and I just.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
Started beating his ass.

Speaker 4 (14:35):
Wow, because all I could think about was him checking
in the hotel, going.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
Well, who's name should put?

Speaker 4 (14:40):
I just put Scott on there, and I just kept
all day long. I could have just kept eating me.
And because I liked Marty, I thought they liked me,
and it hurt my feeling, you know, sorry, actually like
a big red.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, now how did you wind up?

Speaker 4 (14:53):
By the wa I was working in Kansas City and
once a month I would have a big show in
Saint Louis and the top stars would come from Minneapolis, Dallas, Charlotte,
you know, and underneath card would drive from Kansas City
to Saint Louis and we'd be the opening matches. So
I was there and I met I remember, I worked
with Rufe star Jones put him over right in the middle.

(15:15):
You know, I did jobs early on. I didn't care.
I knew it was fake from the beginning. Some guys
have a problem with that even now. But Jet Blackjack
Lanso was there and he came to me and said, hey, kid,
are you ready to make a move? And he was
working for Minneapolis. He went, you ready to make a move,
and I went, no, I'm not ready, and he went,
everybody's the ships when they start, and I said, as

(15:37):
long as you feel that way, I'm ready to make
a move. So he took me to Winnipeg and we did.
They did TV one night and the next night was
a house show, and in fact I got to be
I'll bet Rick Steiner on TV. I always teach him
about I'd beat Rick Steiner on TV in Winnipeg and

(15:57):
the next night I go Broadway, you know, a time
limit draw with Larry's Ebisco, who I told you sitting
in my room now.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
Larry is a huge star.

Speaker 4 (16:06):
And back in the day he used to play when
you know, when you're on these old long trips, they
used to play a thing called the wrestling name game.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
But you guys are too young.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
I played that.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
He used to be the thing.

Speaker 4 (16:16):
Where you say, like the guy would say Lenny Lane
and it'd be ld you and you have to go,
you know, Larry something there. So and Larry's Ybisco is
always my closer, you know, because there's not many guys
who started with Z. So Larry Zosco would be Z
to the next guy, and there wasn't many guys like
z Man or Zeus.

Speaker 3 (16:33):
You know, there wasn't many guys.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:35):
So I get there and I'm looking at the lineup
at the Winnipeg Arena. No, I've never been in front
of a big crowd. It's like fifteen thousand people Winnipeg Arena.
And I looked across the saying and he was the
America's Champion and Scott Old versus Larry'sibisco. Oh my gosh.
I said, at least I'm going to do a job
for somebody that I've heard of.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:55):
So then they'd tell us they were going they you know,
they're protecting me because Vern at that time was in
Alaska fishing, so I wasn't officially hired, but Lands that
was pretty sure I was going to be hired. So
they were taking care of me. They're putting me over
on TV. I never won a match on TV. You know.
Now I'm going Broadway with Sabisco and I I tell
this story. I me and Larry was just laughing about

(17:16):
Larry took such good care of me because I was
so nervous, and he didn't have to. He could have
buried me if he'd wanted to, and I wouldn't even
know that. He made me look like a million dollars.
And the thing he did at the end that I
think is such a detailed thing that nobody has ever
done before since that I know of. You know, like
when you're going Broadway and they ringing ounces, counting ten, yeah, nine,

(17:37):
and the referee everybody's working together and they go, you know,
three two and ding ding ding ding, and every other
time I've seen it, or I was involved in it
prior to that, the bayface almost.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
Goes like, you know, did I win?

Speaker 4 (17:48):
Or like what happened? Sibisco's laying there like this. He
calls the whole comeback and me. He goes, okay, grab
me by the hair, not too hard, Okay, pull your handback,
look at the people, not too long.

Speaker 3 (17:59):
Okay me not too hard.

Speaker 4 (18:01):
He calls the whole thing and he goes, okay, give
me that bulldog thing like Lancer gave me bulldog because
that was his finish. So I do the bull He goes, okay,
do that bulldog thing. Boom the countdown three two, something
like that, and Labisco's later like this and he goes, now,
jump up like you one, And that was such a
detail that I've never seen abody do it.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
Before or since, and I jumped up like yes, and
the people.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
Exploded wow because they thought this dude from nowhere beat
Larry's Embisco because he had good heat, you know, and
it was just something that I never forgot.

Speaker 3 (18:35):
And I feel really blessed.

Speaker 4 (18:36):
That is my career when you know, years later than
when I got to be in the w CW and
nWo and Larry.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
Was an announcer, I got to like had commercial breaks.

Speaker 4 (18:47):
I used to shoot angles with Sobisco, Like we get
a commercial break and I throw my toothpick at Abisco
and you know, we'd square off and he's over. And
I used to tell bishoff, this guy's a star man.
We can make money with him. And they ended up doing.
He got a few pay per views out of the deal.
He got something.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
So now, I mean, I know I'm jumping way ahead,
but did something like that? Did you kind of base
that when the kid came into the WF and you
kind of did something similar for him.

Speaker 4 (19:14):
Well, what happened then actually was you know, when you're
when you're working a when you're a heel and work
in big markets, you know, Philly, Chicago, La, you know,
New York, there's always heel fans, you know, and after
a certain number of years, they they just started liking
raisor So Thence told me, then, well, you know, the

(19:37):
fans are starting to turn you. So he said, we're
gonna have to address it. So the first thing they
did was in massive square garden. Sean Sean Michaels was
an inner condo champ. He was a heel, raised was
a heel, and we traveled together, we hung out together
with great friends, and we were They put us two
heels against each other in the garden, just to see
what the crowd would do. Wow, And it was kind

(19:57):
of cool because we didn't know what to expect because
we'd both been major heels in ability before and now
we're both in there with each other. And Sean as
a super talented and a pretty boy, I kind of
thought I'd be the heel. I thought for sure that
they were gonna like him, but they didn't. But it
was it was even at the beginning, and then Sewan
has just got that natural cockiness and now I'm pretty

(20:19):
cocky too, but it just I just assumed that because
I was bigger and like rougher looking, I'd be the heel.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
It wouldn't. It didn't work out that way.

Speaker 4 (20:29):
And all of a sudden, because we discussed it, you know, like,
they started going raise raise there and I and I
remember Sean telling me in the ring that, like, because
the current hitting.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
Taught me you never go to the people like. You
don't go to them like.

Speaker 4 (20:48):
Cheerly, you know, just you just glance, you know, like
and and so Sean said, they started coming with me,
and so San said, look like you're surprised.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
I went like like and then and then they went louder.
I went like.

Speaker 4 (21:06):
Me and they went right now they started going so
they went all right, you know yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
And it was just that was the first test.

Speaker 4 (21:15):
And what they did with the kid was Vince called
me and said, listen, okay, we have to turn the babyfish.
He said, but I don't want to do the same
old thing where you run in and say somebody he said,
he said, we got this kid wears one hundred and
twenty pounds soaking wet.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
Now. I had seen Kid.

Speaker 4 (21:32):
On Global Wrestling in the Texas and I went lightning
Kid and he goes, you know him, and I would know,
but I remember seeing Kid do the sing on TV
because down there they had a twenty county outside.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
I remember so kids.

Speaker 4 (21:46):
I remember watching TV and here's this kid. He looks
like a stick figure. He looks like he's eleven, but
he can go and he's a natural heel. He's on
the outside and they got this old referee, the old dude.
So guy's going sat it hey. So kid just lays
down on the floor like this and the gut like
a prick going go ahead. Oh man made the guy

(22:08):
count eighty night. Then he rolled in and it was
the funniest thing I've ever seen. It was like I
was talking about with Larry with the Broadway. It was
a detail that you go, Wow, that guy's really smart,
because that's good shit right there. You know what a
little prick. So I registered in my mind. So Vin said,

(22:28):
what we're gonna do is, I'm gonna have this guy
beat you on raw. And we were the first angle
on raw, me and kid, and he said, I have
this guy beat you. And he told me the six
months before we did it, he said, we're gonna have
him beat you. Then you know, from each week you're
off from more money till we get up to about
ten grand. Then the kid's gonna steal the money. He's

(22:49):
not gonna beat again, but he's gonna steal the money
and get away, run away. He said, then what we'll
do is every time a heel does an interview about
his opponent, he's going to close my going speaking of
it what a loser, and the kids beat him. Then
he stole his money and he said, he said, that's
gonna work. He said, that's going to turn the people

(23:09):
where they'll going, well, we don't like you, racer, but
you don't have to take that anyway. I think you'll
work with ted Debiassi Summerslamer's beat him with your finish,
and that's what we did. It was Teddy's last match
in the US, and it was just it was one
of the best things ever had in my career because
it was so cool that because everyone's no one's ever

(23:33):
been turned that way before. You just run in and say,
you know, like all of a sudden, the people just
started going like like they didn't like me, but the
other heels started making like burying me, and their fans
kind of up, well, we don't like you. Raise your bow,
you know, man, he's talking smack about you. Yeah, And
so it was just really cool thing. To be a

(23:53):
part of Vincent. That was one of Vince's the smart guy.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
You know, awesome. Now back to the w A, what
do you remember about meeting for the first time.

Speaker 4 (24:03):
The main thing I learned about vern Well, see, vern
was a really cool cat and he and he was
just kind of eccentric and even though he was balding
in time when I met Vernon was a really charismatic,
handsome dude. And the thing I learned from vern mostly
was how to work a room, because when I went there,
I was his guy. I was gonna they were roomed

(24:25):
me to be their top baby face. And I remember
like traveling to these different functions because vern was real
big about going to different events and golf tournaments and
charity dinners and all these kind of things and taking
what you know, one of his boys with his figure
hitting with him. So I was in that role a
lot of time, and it was, you know, it was
real honor to be And but I can remember riding

(24:47):
a car with Vernon.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
He would be in a bad mood yea, but when
he hit that door, hey.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
Ye hey, you know, yeah, the second guy.

Speaker 4 (24:55):
And he taught me that when every going place was
really important to Vern at the be the one who's
remembered because we go to banquets and stuft there be
football players and be baseball payers to be back.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
You know.

Speaker 4 (25:06):
He wanted people to walk out and remember the wrestling.
Got the wrestler was funny. That wrestle was big, he
was tough, he was you know. So I learned like
the importance of no matter how you feel, when you're working.
Like like a lot of my buddies always give me stuff.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
They go, man, you're making all that money.

Speaker 4 (25:24):
I saw you on TV. You wrestle for twelve minutes,
and I go, yeah, okay, you're right, you're right. But
see what I learned from Vern is you're working the
minute you leave your house. Because you walk outside your house,
the mail man wy go hey, raise there. You know
you're in the airport people, Hey, Razor, Hey, it's got
all the d you know whatever, and you got to go, hey,

(25:45):
you know, you're working the whole time. And I learned
that from Vern the importance of working. You know, you
gotta People don't want to see Scott Hall the father,
the regular dude. They want to see Scott Hall the wrestle.
They want to see raising the bad guy. You know,
when in the airport, you know, or whoever you run
into them, they want to see the guy they see
m TV. Yeah, you know, so you always have.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
To be kind of odd. That's what I learned from Vernon.

Speaker 4 (26:09):
You know, he's he's a smart dude when I and
another thing too, when I they wanted to make me
their champ but it was too cold for me up there.
I remember I went to vern and said, man, this
is your hometown and ain't by it.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
I said, don't put your belt on me. I don't
want it. Wow, I said, I'm going back to Florida.

Speaker 4 (26:29):
I said, if this you know, I said, I'm gonna
go work Florida Championship Wrestling because all I really want see.
Another thing I felt about the DAWA is they were
really fascinated by gimmicks, but they never knew how to
create one.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
That's a great point.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
You know.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
They had Mad Dog with Sean, and they had Jesse
and guys like that, all who all had came in
with their own gimmicks. Everybody else was like Steve O.
I was Big Scott Hall. That was their gimmick for me.
Everybody went by their real name. Nobody was a gimmick
I wanted to learn. I grew up watching Florida wrestling.
I wanted to be Florida style, you know, with the

(27:02):
cool gimmicks and the storylines and the angles and the
gimmick matches.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
And it was just kind of Vanilla arresting Awa.

Speaker 4 (27:10):
It was real successful in nationwide, worldwide TV, but it
was real black and white, and that wasn't what I
was after in my career. And I remember talking to
Vernon and I went in and gave my notice and
he couldn't believe it because nobody left Urn, you know,
he couldn't believe it. I said, vern Man, this is
your hotel, now mine. It's too cold here. I said,

(27:31):
I can make two.

Speaker 3 (27:32):
Grand a week.

Speaker 4 (27:33):
So on Sunday Cocoa Beach. I said, I don't want
to live there anymore. And he goes, I can make
you a star.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
I said, I don't need to be on TV to
feel good about myself.

Speaker 4 (27:45):
And I said, I'm in this for the money, you know,
I'm in it for the money. He goes, the money
comes later. I said, my bills come every month right
on time. And then when I said that to him,
I'll say he is especially kind of changed and we
started talking like man the man instead of an employer
to employee.

Speaker 3 (28:06):
An he went like, I said, how's it feel that?
How's it feel? Vernon?

Speaker 4 (28:11):
You know you made it man, You're a success. He goes,
I'm rich and I said, I know. I want to
be rich too. I said, how's it feel?

Speaker 3 (28:17):
It does? It feels great? And we started our whole
the whole demeanor.

Speaker 4 (28:23):
Everything changed and he started talking to me about you know,
I had this and you know, and we just started
talking like a couple of buddies would talk. Yeah, And
I said, Vernon, I thank you for everything he's done
for me. Don't put your belt on me.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (28:36):
I'm not staying here. I don't want your belt. Go
ahead and put it on whoever you're gonna put on.
I don't want to thank you for everything you've done.
I'm giving you my notice. I'll do jobs on the
way out, no problem. I'm going to Florida. Thank you
for everything. And a lot of people thought that was
a stupid move I made, you know. I mean if
I stayed down and been ABA champion, I still would
have been the cowboy look and all that my career.

(28:58):
Who knows what might happen, and great, but I've been whatever.
You can't look back. But I didn't care. See, there's
two times I found for me. When you have power
is when you don't have anything, or when you have
a lot. Back then, I didn't care. You know. I
had a little bit of money in the bank, had
a brand, I had a corvette. You know.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
You know I'm saying, I got no responsibilities.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
I don't care.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
I got power because I don't care, you know.

Speaker 4 (29:25):
Yeah, So I was like, man, no thanks, Yeah you
got Awa World Champ. No thanks, I'd rather be Florida
State Champ. But I mean he was. They were really
good to me there. I mean when I first moved there,
he invited me to his house for thanks Eving dinner.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
You know, Vernon his family. They're good people. You know,
they're treating me really good. It just I just want
to fit for me. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
A lot of the guys that worked in the Awa
around that time, they talk about Kurt Heating being a
river in the middle of matches and things like that.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
Do you remember any anything like that.

Speaker 4 (29:56):
The thing that I always remember about Kurt Gottus the
Soul is that when I came to Minneapolis. They put
because I was again, I was green as hell, but
I looked a part. And now I'm on nationwide TV.
And they put Kurt and I together as tag team
and then we ended up being tag team champs and stuff,
and they put Kurt with me and and Kurt came

(30:17):
and picked him up in my apartment, drove me to
every town. Wow, talk to me because I didn't know
how to drive on that kind of weather, you know.
And he talked to me about the business all the time,
in about psychology and how to act in the locker
room and how to act around it, you know, taught
me everything that his view of the business, which became
my view. And Kurt had an influence on a lot
of guys. Sean Michael's me kid like about the way

(30:43):
to do business. Like if you're going to put a
guy over, man, you put him over. You know, if
you're losing, you don't it's one two, say you don't
keep out a three you laid there for fifty. If
the guy it's good enough to beat you, man, he
make him look like ten million dollars. Like Kurt was
the first guy to take bumps and get action from
his bumps.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
Instead of just taking a bump Kurt to do worlds
and stuff.

Speaker 4 (31:05):
And Kurt was he was and see he was around
mister Fuji early when he he was in in the
w W early and then he came back to me,
you know the aw A. So he was around mister
Fuji and mister Fuji is legendary master River. So Kurt
was a he Just what I know from Kurt was

(31:27):
you can you have to have fun this business because
it's your life.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
You know, this is our life ron the road, in hotels,
this is our life. And Flare told me that too.
So you can either go you know we're going to Boise,
you know, we're going.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
To boys, We're going to falls.

Speaker 4 (31:44):
Yeah, they love me, and you know it's it's your
attitude because some guys a jacks or you can be
the guys.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
Laughing and t you know.

Speaker 4 (31:53):
So being around Kurt, he was always upbeat and happy,
so that helped me a lot. And then having him
as a partner, Kirke did all the work, did everything.
He tagged me, I make to come back. I pained
the guy. It got to the point where it was
so ridiculous that uneducated fans will go they go hey, oh,
get rid of it, man, get a new partner. He's
holding you down, and I be thinking, you got you

(32:16):
got it wrong. Man, he's doing everything. I'd be lost.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
Without him, you know.

Speaker 4 (32:21):
But I mean, and and the thing that always stuck
in my mind is this is before the days of
the guaranteed money. You know, you got paid what you
got paid. And it's so as far as curtain it,
we were both baby face. It's so basically we're competing
for the same job. And he went out of his
way to help me. You know, he was driving me around,
he was teaching me stuff. He always featured me in matches.

(32:43):
He always started the match. Then when he would go,
like tag me, and he'd go, you want me to
tag the big man, and like like like, and I thought,
that's the right thing to do. That's why anytime keV
and I ever have a match, I always start, unless
it's with unless kids with us, Then kids start, and
then I started in because he always featured the big guy,
because it's just the way. It's the right thing to do,

(33:04):
I think, because that's what Kurt talks.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
How do you bring it up?

Speaker 1 (33:06):
I remember every time when you would Tiger in Kevin
Nashy and be like, yeah, you know what we do
the spot right, I would put the guy over like
crazy and then spit on him.

Speaker 3 (33:15):
I did it to Stevie.

Speaker 4 (33:16):
Ray Harlem heave me and Kevin working with them, allowe
Havock and they're going to drop the stats to us.
So me and Booker starting being we have similar styles.
We do some stuff stag steebee and Stevie toss me around,
boom boom boom boom, do be mad stuff. And then
I go and spin on him, and I don't tell
him'm going to do it because I'm afraid he'll beat
me up.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
So I spit on him. And Stevie is.

Speaker 4 (33:38):
A big, bad, proud black man, and people don't spit
on Stevie Ray. And he went and the people who
And then I went.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
And reach back and tag keV and then I go,
now you're gonna get it.

Speaker 4 (33:54):
So keV comes in, does some spots and put Stevie
Ray over and Stevie and I've done that spot with
a lot of guys. Stevie Ray was just so smart
that after he boom boom boom bounce kept around, he
went over to me with I was standing on the apron.
I didn't know it was coming. He spent on me
that I would like. I tried to come in, tricked
on the rope the player, but it was so cool,

(34:16):
but I had I apologized to him afterwards and Stevie,
you know, I just popped up my head although I
had planned it. Stevie said, please, you know it's just
to work. You know I would never spit on you
in real life. I respect you, know because I don't
want you to kill me.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
But what do you memories of the match did you
and have with the Long Riders?

Speaker 4 (34:37):
Scott Irwin was a superhuman being, God rest his soul.
He was a businessman and he knew that his job
was to make me look good, because that's what Verne wanted.
His brother, Bill and I just didn't get along. I
can't speak wama suit. It's what I think. I think

(34:57):
Bill was one of those guys. He felt like, who's
this JABBRONI? He hasn't paid his due, some musclehead getting
pushed just because he looks good. So Bill would never shine.
He would never I felt he wouldn't do it his job.
You know. His brother was bigger and better and would
do stuff to make me look great, and Bill would

(35:17):
bury me and I was not smart enough to know
what to do about him. But I was smart enough
at that point to know what was going on. Plus
I had Kurt pointed it out to me, you know,
after we were be in the cart and seeing. Now,
you know when he did that, you should do this
and you should do that because it was happening to me,
and it was happened to me in big markets in
Chicago and you know, Salt Lake City and stuff like that,
where I knew it was wrong, but I didn't know

(35:38):
what to do.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
Now my instincts are telling me just punch him in
the face.

Speaker 4 (35:41):
Yeah, but I don't want to get that rep as
being one of those kind of guys because then no
one wants to do business with him.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
Yeah, but that's my questions.

Speaker 4 (35:48):
Then. I think Scott was super and I really didn't
care for Bill. If I had a company, I would
hire Scott and I wouldn't hire his brother.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
What are you memories of Russell Rock and wrestling Ray
Stevens Well and.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
Wrestle him at restaurant? Could wrestle? I think we wrestled
the long Riders at restaurant.

Speaker 4 (36:07):
At Kaminsky Park, Kurt, Greg Gandi, and I wrestled Nicky
Park We Kurt, Greg Guy Greg Rambo. Got you remember
that he went to Camp Slaughter Greg, Greg, Kurt, and
I wrestled Nick Bocklin, Larry's Abisco and Ray Stevens. So

(36:30):
you're talking about here's three heels who are pros, and
they know what their job is. They know, Okay, they
got two baby faces who can work their asses off
from Greg and Kurt, and then they got this big
goof that the office is pushing. So those guys being
being being do their stuff and then I they do
the you know, slam one and the other one feeds me.

(36:51):
You know, they I do all the old time big man,
strong man stuff, you know, top wristlocker, throw the guy off,
that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (36:58):
But and then they put me over.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
You know, I win one three, you know, yeah, I
mean you talking about legendary heels. I mean, Ray Stevens
and Pat Patterson were doing stuff in California in the
sixties and seventies that it would be would be groundbreaking today.
I mean, if you were to watch those tapes of
stuff they did, then it'd be better than stuff you're
seeing on TV.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
Right now in two.

Speaker 4 (37:20):
Thousand and seven, Wow, I know the guys there, Pat
Pats and Ray Stevens were, you know, unbelievable. Wow.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
And what do you rememberies of about Nick Bockwinkle back then?

Speaker 4 (37:31):
Well, my boy, I remember Nick said he used to
walk around the locker room with a T shirt on,
his loafers and black socks on it and naked from
a waist down. He walked around to you and he'd
be giving me the finish while you're sitting there putting
your boots on it. You have this package in your
face and be like, what the fuck? Okay, yeah, I
get it, you know. But now, Nick was an absolute pro.

(37:55):
You know, he's the same thing. You know, he knew
he had way more talented me, way more experience, but
his job was to put this new bringing guy over
that the office was pushing with, hopefully someday that everybody
would make more money if Scott Hall got over.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:09):
So he just taught me stuff, you know, told me
he just talked to me calmly in the ring.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
Calm down, my boy, okay, you know, just you know,
just complete absolute pro.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Now, something I want to ask you, because you were
there at the time, we just interviewed John Nord uh
two days ago, and he was saying that in the
w A H.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
He had a problem with somebody.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
He would after russell guys like Crusher and Man Dog
Vashan who are obviously older, and here he was a
big guy having to sell for those guys, and then
he'd come back the next month against a younger guy.
Nobody would really buy it after he was getting his.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Ass kicked from.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
Well, like like I was saying earlier, it's no he's
he should.

Speaker 4 (38:52):
Have been one of the bigger stars in the business,
but you know he had other priorities in his car
business and different things, know his business.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
But I enjoyed being around him, and I thought he
was money. But like we were.

Speaker 4 (39:06):
Saying earlier, is that that it was in the air
when the business was changing. The guys like Crusher and
the Bruiser and Bad Dog and stuff, they their time
was coming to an end and they were talented and
they had the follow him. But now you have a
guy who's six six to ninety with a thirty five
inch waist like Nord and looks like a young Brodie.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
And you know the was changing.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
There was the crossroads there, like you got to put
these guys over a little bit. But the older fans
are kind of still with it. But it's a new
era of fans now because of television.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
Television.

Speaker 4 (39:43):
It's not a house show business as much as it
used to be. Now it's a television industry. And if
you don't look the part, people don't buy it. Like,
wait a minute, the old dude's beating up that big
muscle guy. Yeah, so you know, and obviously in that
situation some of his little it was a little bit.
It was see Norton was doing as a heel. I was,

(40:03):
I was a big baby face and sometimes had to
wrestle an older heel and people who are going, well,
how are getting to yourself? And it was just it
was just what we had to do. You just had
to try to get through it, you know. Yeah, I
mean I can't really.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
Answer for you. I know, I know what Child's talking about.

Speaker 4 (40:18):
Though.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
It was it was a it was a weird time
in our business. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
What do you remembers of Seawan Michaels from back then?

Speaker 3 (40:24):
I knew Sean.

Speaker 4 (40:25):
I first met Sean in Kansas City because he came
into Kansas City from San Antonio and I have some
pictures of my gym at home of Sean Man.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
He looks like he's twelve.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
He came in and they started putting it because Marty
Janetti and Bulldog Brown with the tag champs. Excuse me,
but they started putting Sean and Marty together in Kansas City.
And now he had two young, handsome, athletic babyfaces. And
it was kind of good because Danny Spivey was still
there for part of that. So then we had, you know,

(40:57):
we got to have some good matches. Good for us
at that point with them because we had two big
guys and the two pretty guys.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
And you know, and they and Sean.

Speaker 4 (41:09):
I remember making a trip with Sean one time when
he explained the business to me. We're riding on the road.
I've been working about six eight months, and I don't know.
I don't understand the business.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
I don't know. I didn't know there was a kind
of a formula.

Speaker 4 (41:20):
So Sean goes, we're right along and he goes, well,
see what you do is at the beginning, you know,
you shine the bayface, bake the bay face look good.
Then you know, you get some heat on them, and
then you know, you get the Bayface makes a comeback
and then do the finish. And I went, oh, because
I need even know that that. I mean, you can

(41:41):
always shift it around and make it more complex, but
that's the basic ingredients. I mean, sometimes you jump start
to heat, you know, you start with the heat and stuff.
But I didn't even know that. And Sean was younger
than me and continues to be younger than me, and
he's explained it to me then, and that's when I
kind of, you know, we're talking about how things click.
And I was like, oh, so I got to wrestle

(42:02):
Sean someday. And then Lansa took me to Kansas City.
And by that time, now Sean and Marty were kind
of established as a team in Kansas City. And so
I'm in Minneapolis and they're kind of using me pretty good.
And now they want to bring the soon to be
midnight Rockers to Minneapolis. But they come to me and go,

(42:24):
we want to bring them in, but we don't want
any problems. And we know you and Jeannetti had a problem.
And I said, man, as far as Evanston it's history,
I said, those guys are great. I said, I got
a problem with Janetti. It was we did what we did.
It was over that night because the next time I
saw him the next night, I went to him and said, well,
everybody's telling me I jumped you when you were asleep,
So now you're awake, do you want some of me?

(42:46):
And he would know because he still at stitches in
his face. And if he'd said yes, I didn't drill yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
But he went out. You know, I said, okay, it's over.
To me, it's over, yea.

Speaker 4 (42:55):
And so it was over and I said, no, they're great,
bring them in and and they really took off. Then
you know the rockets, they just exploded. And the funny
part was at that time in their careers, Marty was
the leader. Marty was this kind of the smarter one
about the business. But it didn't take Sean long to

(43:16):
for those roles to reverse when Sean became the leader
and continues to in my opinion, Sean's the best work
in the in the industry. Wow. And I got to
wrestle him every night for about two and a half years,
then with keV on the outside. Then I wrestled with
keV for about a year and a half with Sean
on the outside, So for about three or four years there.
You know, we were in cruise control. You know, we

(43:36):
had our A match, our B match, our C match,
depending on the house, you know, decide what match.

Speaker 3 (43:41):
We're going to give him in.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, what do you remember about the free Birds from
back then?

Speaker 3 (43:46):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (43:46):
Man, it was such a mark for the free Birds
that you know, the same thing. Here's a couple of pros.
These guys are pros, and they know our office wants
a big muscle guy over because now they've been in
Dallas doing it. Of course, van Erics were a lot
more talented than I was at that point, but they knew,
oh we're heels. We get paid big money putting these

(44:09):
guys over. They knew it was fake. They had no
problem with it. Michael Hayes, Terry Gordy, Buddy Roberts just
would go outher. You know, they would shine kurtup and
they'd get big heat on Curt. They tagged me, they
would give me a comeback unbelievable. And they would call
it to me as they're doing it, Like Buddy would say, Sam,
you know, slam me, and he'd go watch for Michael,

(44:29):
you know, and then mind slam Michael Weld. Go watch
for bam bam, and then here come Terry. You know,
I said, by went, he said go back to buddy,
and you know, and they would just tell me as
I'm doing it, because I'd be going huh. But meanwhile
people going to and then Michael go bow up, come home,
fire up, you know, and and you know they were fantastic.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
I was such a mark for the Birds that.

Speaker 4 (44:49):
That when keV Kid and I became a package and
we're aw That's why I created wolf Pack. It was
my idea because I wanted us to be the wolf
Pack because we were going to be the Freebird. There's
three of us. We're different, but we're like real brothers.
We fight with each other, but if you mess with
one of us, you got to fight all of us.

(45:11):
We don't address the same, but we're the same colors.
And and we had like they had Freebirg rules, like
they're the tag champs, but you never knew which two
of the three were going to defend the outs and
they all came to the ring together. Nobody else ever
did that before. That's what we did, and we were
wolf back rules. And Terry Taylor when we were working

(45:32):
for w CWNWS stuff used to go crazy because he
was kind of working in the back, and like Kid
would be wrestling, or I'd be wrestling Kebre wrestling and
we'd all go out together.

Speaker 3 (45:42):
But he you guys are involved in the match, you're
involved in the finish. But yeah, we know.

Speaker 4 (45:46):
But but you're going out there together. You know, the
people are gonna know, you're gonna be involved with you.
I know.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
That's how we do it.

Speaker 4 (45:54):
Man. Like to me, if one of my boys is
in a match, to be out there because if he's winning,
I want to be right there watching, and if he's
losing it, I'm gonna help. So why would I wait
in the back? Oh gee, he's in trouble, Let me
run down the aisle. No, man, I'm going to be
right there because I'm old and I can't run that fast. Yeah,

(46:14):
I'm gonna be right there ringside so I can get involved.
Plus I want that camera time. I mean, it's just
it's just how we did it. And we did it
because I thought the Freewands were the cool singer wrestling
and I was trying to rip off the freewance.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Wow, what do you remember about your series with Buddy
Rose and Doug Somers?

Speaker 3 (46:34):
The same thing.

Speaker 4 (46:35):
Buddy Rose genius. You know, he's a super talented heel
and a good athlete. To be a big chubby like that,
he's a heck of an athlete. We didn't have as
good a match with them as the Rockers did because
I used to watch the Rockers work with them, and
it was like looking at a real life cartoon. Because

(46:55):
the Rockers back then, they were the like zebra stuff
on their ebra shirts and kind of a midnight rocker.
I mean, like the rock and Roll express sashes, the
bandanas you had them, and then you know, the duck
Summers was kind of tall and thin with the prox
eyed blonde hair, but he was fat with the broxide
blonde hair. But if you sat back and watched it,

(47:16):
it was like a cartoon and there's stuff was so
smooth and boo boom. I mean, we had good matches
with him, you know, but it was the same thing.
You had a couple of professional heels. Kurt could do
his job. He knew exactly what he was doing, and
I was being my feature and being groomed, you know,
I was just everybody took care of me because some

(47:36):
guys did it, maybe because they liked me and this
other guys did it because then that was their job,
you know, and they were professionals and that's what they did.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
Yeah, did you want to go into Memphis at all?

Speaker 3 (47:46):
I spent some time. I don't remember when.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
Was it there you went? It was Texas Scott was.

Speaker 4 (47:51):
No, I was never Texas Scott until I was working
in Japan and Vader, well Leon White, who I knew
from He was a w a guy because he used
to he lived in Boulder and he never moved to
Minneapolis and kept pressing him to move the mini but
he never would. So he'd just fly in and I
was drive by the airport. So he just knock on

(48:13):
my door. Now had this four hundred pounder and knock
on my door. And I announced the door and goes, hey,
what's up? He just walked in with the suitcase.

Speaker 3 (48:19):
You know. I go, oh, hey, Leon, you want to
stay with me? You know?

Speaker 4 (48:23):
But so he he had worked for Autobots in the
CWA in Europe and that and I was on tour
New Japan with he was Invader and uh and I
and I wanted to work. I wanted to work wherever
I could, you know, because I was getting no success
in the US. So I was working Porto Rico, Japan,

(48:44):
and I wanted to get into Europe. So Leon, you know,
called Outo from We were in the Kio Plaza in Tokyo.
He called Auto put him on the phone with them.
Leon put me over. Auto hired me. So I get
ready to go there. Then a minute Auto calls me.
I went home in Florida and Auto calls me and goes,
can you get a cowboy at I was okay because

(49:06):
at that time to Europeans, anybody from America was a cowboy.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
So they builed me from Texas. So I was Texas Scott,
you know.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
And how did you wind up in w CW that time,
like when you when you first came the first time.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
I was in w CW before.

Speaker 4 (49:23):
Is the blonde cowboy gimmick underneath the brownie guy I was?

Speaker 3 (49:26):
They had me.

Speaker 4 (49:27):
I wasn't even on a contact, but I was getting
grand a week on a verbal commitment and just floundering,
not getting anywhere. Not. What I my feeling about w
CW was that your destiny was determined before you ever performed.
Because if you made seven hundred and fifty grand a year,

(49:48):
you know, your contract was negotiated before you performed, you know,
So if you made seven hundred and fifty grand and
I made fifty grand, I'm never going to beat you.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
Yeah, I'm probably not even gonna be in the same
match as you.

Speaker 4 (50:00):
Even though some of those high pay guys weren't that
over and some of the lower paid guys were getting
over with the people that just your You were a
pigeonholed into a certain position, and yours there was no advancement,
you know.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
And it's not that the blondhaired guy was getting over
it all down there. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (50:19):
But when I when I came back from Germany, it
went tour. My wife, my then wife was pregnant, and
I called Diamond Dallas Page, who had a good spot then,
and said, Daly, man, I need a job. My wife's pregnant. Man,
I need a job because I was ready to quit wrestling.
I was gonna go work at Sears or something. Now
I got a baby and I need money quick. Yeah,

(50:39):
And so I called Dallas and I said, you need
somebody to stand next to you, make you look small.
I said, you need a diamond stud. So Dowly gave
me the black hair gimmick, told me, shade the mustache.
You wanted me to have the rob Low stubble. And
it was even Our first TV was in Fayeteville, North Carolina,
and we ate a waffle house right by the building

(50:59):
and checking out paying our bill, and they had a
little toothpick thing there and Dallas went toothpicks. She said, okay,
We're both had toothpicks, all right. So walking and where
Dallas used to talk on the way to the ring,
he had a microphone and we were doing this, stripped
the stud gimmick, you know, tied to tear away stuff
on him. We're looking for a valet for the stud

(51:20):
and blah blah blah and uh. But Dallas was talking
so much on the way the ring, his toothpick fell
out and I still had mine. And when I went
to that camera with bang and and then the toothpick
thing was mine. But Dallas helped me so much. He
drove me crazy, buddy, But he helped me a lot
because as soon as I did that stud gimmick the
first time I was on TV, Pat Patterson called my

(51:42):
house and said, Vince loves the new look. Really first time,
he said, did you sign a contract, and I said, Pat,
I didn't want to work for them. I said, I
wouldn't have called your office every week for a year
if I did. I said, I want to work for
your office. He said, you sign a contract, and said, yeah,
I just got back from Atlanta. I said year contract
and he said, well, don't worry a kid. In a year,

(52:03):
you'll be able to tell New York once you wow.

Speaker 3 (52:06):
All right.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
As far as h Dallas page goes, I mean, Dallas
has told stories where he was ribbed a lot, like
when he was in WCW.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Do you remember him being ribbed a lot back then?

Speaker 3 (52:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (52:15):
I remember one time they had this dude firebreaker Chip
or something like that. He was kind of a muscled
up dude and he was kind of ribbing Daly in
the locker room. And a lot of people give Dallas
stuff because see Dallas. In my opinion, Dallas didn't draft
the fact that to me, if you're an announcer, I

(52:37):
was if you're an announcer, I always viewed that as
being above the wrestlers. You know, if you got the
headsets on, you're sitting there announcing, that's kind of being
above a wrestler. But Dallas wanted to desperately wrestle, and
so he started wrestling, and he was, you know, he
was older than a lot of guys had, didn't have
any experience, but he had a.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
Burning desire and stuff. And Dallas is Dallas man. He's
a kook. He's eccentric.

Speaker 4 (53:01):
I love him like a brother, but he will try
to be crazy if you don't know. And he's just
so upbeat and so positive and talking too. Is in
some guys is some guys just it's a nation of
the business. Some guys are just me, you know. So
one time the guy said something to Dallas, and I'll
tell you what. Dallas face locked him and took him

(53:21):
down on the floor. And from that then and on
a'll sudden, everybody kind of went, what like, oh, philis
Dill was tougher and he looks you know, I mean
a lot of the ribbing backed off then. But one time,
I can't remember if it was in Charleston, West Virginia
or Morgantown, West Virginia, but we had a battle royal
and it was a managers were also in it. So

(53:43):
Dallas was at that point still kind of managing the
Diamond stud and Humper Dank was in it and stuff
like that. So before the match, everybody but Dallas knew
that the Steiner brothers were.

Speaker 3 (53:54):
Gonna strip Dallas naked in the ring.

Speaker 4 (53:57):
And Dallas is one of the guys who were three
or four pairs tights like the Spandex long ones, short ones,
undertights everything. And then that's when Dallas was with the
Free Birds too. He was managing the birds, He's managing me,
He's with humperd Ink and spiit. The thing is, so
we get in the ring and I'm one of the
first ones eliminated. So I'm standing in the back watching
with Grizzly Smith. He was, he was the agent, and

(54:20):
everybody soon as the thing starts, the people who Dallas
manages and the birds, Michaels, everybody just turns down and
everybody just starts wailing on Dallas just I mean, some
of them are live rounds and they just start beating
him down. And then the Steiner's just swooping and taking
down Boom and there's a big dog pile on them
and the next thing you know, it was one of
the most amazing feats of strength I've ever seen. Rick Steiner.

(54:42):
You know Robbie rick Steiner reached down and grabbed Dallas's
spandex and just pulled on it, pulled on it, and
spandex is pretty tough, yeah, And he.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
Pulled on and pulled up and just went on till
it exploded.

Speaker 4 (54:56):
Wow, Now Dallas is butt asked naked in the middle
of the ring. The people go crazy. They are exploding,
They're popping like crazy. Then the funniest thing some people
said it was more revolts he could see Dallas naked
was Humper took his bad street shirt off and through
it to Dallas. A lot of people I got long

(55:18):
because I don't know. It's more pump with his shirt
off for Dallas Nagan but pumpkin shirts. So Dallas holding
the shirt around like this, and Grizzly says, go get him,
So I go get him. The one thing see me
and Dallas with but heads about is to me, Okay,
I wouldn't want to be stripped naked in the ring,
but if you are, you might as well go with it, right,
I mean you might as well go like, oh my god,

(55:39):
ah and really because the people were popping. But Dallas
did like you a big ding like if he would
they would have still been popping today.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
But he did the you know, you know, like you
want to sell, you know.

Speaker 4 (55:54):
But I think after that that was kind of because
the way he took it, like they went, wow, that's
about a bigger ribs you can pull on somebody, and
you know what, like it was kind of initiation for him.
I guess, you know, he took they ribbed in the
ribbon and ribb him. He took it like a man.
He didn't bitch, he didn't complain to the office, he
didn't do anything. And then that time he facet offed

(56:16):
that dude and took him down, everybody kind of went
leave alone. Yeah, you know, he's all right.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
You know how about Jim Heard? Remember about Jim Heard?

Speaker 3 (56:27):
He was the bosses or somebody. Yeah. See, I was
so low in a tone of pulled in bro. I
remember the name. I don't think I ever even.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Saw it, like the white hair.

Speaker 4 (56:35):
I mean I kind of known, but I never had
any interaction with him. I was so low in the
food chain that you know, he wouldn't have had any
reason to talk to me. You know.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
Now when Ric Flair.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Ric Flair left UH and went to WWF at the
time he took the belt with him. Some of the
guys we've talked to, they said they found it really
disrespectful that Rick would take the belt, like it was
almost hurting them by taking food out of their mouth.

Speaker 4 (57:00):
When Flair took the belt up there. It wasn't that
long after that that I got to go to New
York and be Razor and they and Razor was getting
a big push, and so they put me with perfect
You know, Kurt Hennick was he was undisability, so he
was retired and he was in a great spot.

Speaker 3 (57:17):
He was an announcer.

Speaker 4 (57:18):
He already had the reputations being a great wrestler, so
he was a kind of liaison between the boys in
the office. He worked with Vince on the Superstar Show
as an announcer. He was with Heenan, he was with Flair,
and they put me with those guys. So that's about
as high as you can go on the heel tone
pole at that time. Yeah. So, and I remember that

(57:40):
now they did weeks and weeks of Vignetta Razor before
they go in there, and I'm my dreams are coming true.
They're going to push the heck out of me, and
I'm really happy about it because Kurt has helped me
from the ABA days and he's continuing to help me now.
He's telling me, you know, how to get over with Vince.
What's doing a ring? No wasted motion. You know, don't
you do something because you can. You don't just do

(58:03):
a move to guy because you can. And like he
taught me, because back in those days, there were squash matches.
You know, you have a guy from the audience against
the guy who was getting paid to wrestle. And Kurt said,
don't go out there and hammer a guy with a
bunch of devastating moves because you got to wrestle for
four or five minutes. He said, hit the guy with
one thing and then just stand there and go look

(58:24):
at you. Now, look at you. And I stole from
Kurt that just pushing your toe on the guy and
just go look at you, you know, because you don't
want to keep hitting the guy with devastating stuff because
you're killing your stuff off. Yeah, so Kurt told me that,
he said, everything you do has to have a purpose,
no waste in motion. Don't run around. Always act like
you know what you're doing. You know, like when you

(58:45):
need a ring, just he taught me that you can't
afford to buy that kind of TV time, Like every
time you're out there, it's a commercial for you. So
take your time, look into the camera, move slowly. But
then when you do something, to do it explosively. But
then look around because Vince's key Tam Camra has a slick.
They ain't gonna miss it. They're gonna catch it. You

(59:07):
do something cool, it's gonna be on TV. So he
taught me that, and just but I remember that. Now
I'm with the I'm with Flair, Kurt and Bobby Heena,
and so now my first angle is gonna be against
Randy Savage against Mancho. It's my chief Mog against Macho.
So that in Hershey, Pennsylvania. Now they set it up

(59:30):
by doing it in Wembley in SummerSlam, they injured Randy's leg.
So the whole storyline now is Randy has an injured leg,
Flaire does a figure four. They're gonna take the strap
off Savage and put it on Flair. And now we're
in Hershey, Pennsylvania, and the angle is supposed to be
they're wrestling. At a certain point, I'm supposed to go

(59:52):
Savage is gonna go to the floor. I'm gonna come out.
Vince wants me to kick him in the leg one time,
throw him in. Flair's gonna put him in the figure
for Randy's gonna not give up but pass out one, two, three.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (01:00:04):
So we're there and I'll never forget this. I'm standing
there waiting by the grilled position because I'm gonna you know,
I have to go when I'm told to go. And
I don't know I Vince did this to teach me
a lesson or just because that's the way he felt.
But they go out and they wrestled about ten fifteen
minutes and he sends Heenah out.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
He goes go out there and get them back here.

Speaker 4 (01:00:25):
Because this is before live TV, and Heenen goes out
says something to them. They both come back for the
back and Vince reads them the riot and what the f.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
Is that you look like?

Speaker 4 (01:00:37):
Du Jam Brody's out there. I told you to work
his leg from the beginning.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
B blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
And I'm standing going whoa. That's where Flair and Rady
Sam's getting yelled at. What if I screw up?

Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
You know what?

Speaker 4 (01:00:52):
I mean, I'm not sure the ink's dry on my
contract yet holding the cow, and he's yelling at these
guys are major players, and so he sends him back
out and more tells him work his leg. From the beginning,
the whole storyline is his legs injured, work his leg,
work legs leg. So Rick does they send me out?

(01:01:13):
I kick him in the leg, I roll him back in.
Rick goes another five minutes before putting the figure four out.
Vince is furious by the time the thing airs. I
kick him in the leg and roll him back in.
He's in a figure field. But I remember we're sitting there,
when we're sitting in a little conference room talking about

(01:01:33):
the meeting you and talking about the thing with Flare
in the belt.

Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
Is where this long ramy story is going, is that.

Speaker 4 (01:01:38):
I remember kicking when they're talking about doing it because
I didn't like Flair, because he was in control of
my career when I was in w c W, and
I don't like the way he was treating me, you know,
and so and like at the same time, when you
don't have anything, you have power, you know, Ray, I
made a dime yet, so I'm afraid to say fuck
you Flair, will you can fire me? Shut him back

(01:01:59):
to the strip club and they're talking about doing anything
because I've been talking to Kurt Man. Wait a minute,
how do we know we can trust Flair? You're gonna
put Vince's belt on Flair? He ripped off. He took
Atlanta's belt, like, this is a guy you want to
carry your banner. I don't because I didn't like Flair,
so I didn't really want to play on his team.

(01:02:19):
And I was about to tell Vince, you sure you
trust this guy because he's got to fucked Turner Broadcasting.
So I'm start and then then Vince goes, is there
any questions? And I was in Kurt put his foot
on mine and tapping on the foot. I don't say
anything because I was about to go, yeah, I got
a question, You're sure you can trust this guy? But
Kurt gave him the office with his foot, so I

(01:02:40):
didn't say anything. But that's my answer to you. I agree.

Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
I thought.

Speaker 4 (01:02:43):
I thought it was completely unprofessional and arry wrong with
Rick to take the belt. That's not the way Rick
this business. Now. I don't know the backstory. Maybe they
screwed Rick over. He felt the need to do that.
I don't know Rick's side of it. I just know
as a wrestler, that's the wrong thing to do. Like
when we left me cav left Vince to go to
w W. We did jobs on the way out. We

(01:03:03):
did jobs at Masson Square Guard. Nobody ever did jobs
on the way out when they were high up, you
know what I mean. We didn't have to, but it
was the right thing to do. We didn't want to
screw the fans.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
Uh in w CW, what do you remember about your
matches with Brian Coleman when he was a dirty yellow dog.

Speaker 4 (01:03:23):
I never wrestledhim with his dirty yellow dog because he
was a baby face and I was a baby face.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
Okay, I thought I thought you guys did wrestle a
lot of matches.

Speaker 4 (01:03:30):
Maybe yeah, when I was a JABRONI like cowboy, like
mustache guy. And then I don't think it's a diamondstead
I ever wrestled the yellow dog. Brian was really talented,
was getting a big push, you know he was. He's
a good guy in good talent, and they liked him. Yeah,
But like my career was so I was so low
on the food chain, and that everyone want to be

(01:03:50):
thrown in a mask. But I was so little consequence
that I don't remember any of that stuff. Okay, I
know Brian did great. And actually that yellow dog thing
was something that was ripped off that Barry Wyndham did
in Florida. That's right, that's when. That's when it was done.
Right when Barry did it, it was sweet.

Speaker 1 (01:04:10):
How did you come up with the well, what was
then the diamond death drop then later the Brazer's edge.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
I just was trying to think of just some kind
of just a cool move.

Speaker 4 (01:04:20):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
Actually I think I stole it from Danny's spot, said.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
I forget, I don't think. I don't think he did.

Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
I think because Danny had been working in Japan. And
what I think dan what Danny did was.

Speaker 4 (01:04:31):
One time I saw him people guy up for like
that old style backbreaker like this, And I was just
trying to think of because I remember when I was
sitting there thinking how come I haven't made it? I
think I got a good body. I think I can talk.
I think I have a good enough look. Why aren't
I successful When all the guys had started with a
successful So I started studying all the dudes who were

(01:04:52):
on top and looking for the common denominator, not so
much like stealing their moves or anything like that, but
what's the common denominator? Because I was a huge fan
of guys like Jake and stuff, Jake the Steak. So
I went, Okay, you got to have a look. Not
everybody has to be a muscle guy, but you got
to have your look. You got to be able to talk,

(01:05:13):
you got to have a couple of signature moves. You
gotta have a cool finish. That's it. That's what all
the top guys had. Y' only need three or four moves,
like Jake had just a couple of moves. So I
had was you know, I had sack of shit. You know,
I actually started using that raise his heads diamond death
drop in Puerto Rico.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
I did to Carlos Cologne.

Speaker 4 (01:05:35):
Because that's why I just practiced, because I went like
this and a lot of the guys in Puerto Rico
were littler and I was bigger than so I just
started just crackicing it. The first couple of times I
did it, man, I was just laying on my elbows
and stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:05:46):
You know, I didn't know what I was doing. I
was dropping guys on her heads. But it was cool.
Look and I'll never forget the first time I did.

Speaker 4 (01:05:51):
It Bob when in Atlanta and Bobby England, man, that's
cool finish. I wouldn't want to take it, but it
looks cool. And like that what I called savage ship
that they called fallaway slam or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
I was in a ring.

Speaker 4 (01:06:04):
I was rooming with Carlos Globe and I said, duck
the clothes on, cross body. So I caught him and
you know, gave him sack that I come back to
the locker and he goes, hey, I'm ago.

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
What was that?

Speaker 4 (01:06:14):
He goes, you don't be like a second ship. And
from that moment on it became sack of ship. Like
when I'm in a ring with dudes. I know, I go,
duck the clothes on, sack of.

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
Shit, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:06:23):
But just I just kind of developed that stuff in
Puerto Rico because I really learned a lot in Puerto
Rico about how to get over, you know, how to
you know, it's a real violent society, and to get
over you gotta be a badass. You can't be a cartoon.
You got to be a serious heel. Because I didn't
want to be a a ha heel like Chief day
Startware used to say too much haha. Like I didn't

(01:06:46):
want to be a comedian, funny heel. I wanted to
be like a serious badass, and so I learned a
lot of that in Puerto Rico.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
Now you said you were talking to Pat Patterson while
you were in WCW. How did you finally make make
the move? Well, okay, now he tells me, don't worry.
The year you'll be able to tell you what a job.
Of course, a year year yr Vier goes by, and
then you know, I still have to call, and I'm
going I said, screw it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
I called Kurt. You know, I call perfect.

Speaker 4 (01:07:14):
I said, Man, if I'm destined to be a job
guy in this business, then I would rather do it
in the WWF because because I said, get me Barry
Horowitz's job. Barry Holwitz had a baseball card. I mean,
everybody who worked for Vince was a star. You know,
Virgil was a star. Guys who did jobs were stars.
Everybody was a star. Some guys were higher up, but

(01:07:35):
everybody was a star.

Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
So I said, if I'm if I don't have it
to be made of venor, I still want.

Speaker 4 (01:07:40):
To wrestle because even the Loewe's big wrestlers getting paid
and I have no education. So I thought, this is
what I still want to do this for a living.
If I have to be a bottom guy, I'd rather
do it for the best company. Yeah, So I told
Kurt give me Barry Horwartz's job. So they give me
a tryout. I mean Lexington, Kentucky, the very first match
of the night. But now I got this stud look

(01:08:03):
and the stud moves and I walk out. And a
lot of times when Vincent will give you a trial match,
they usually have you do a job just to check
your attitude because a lot of guys don't google face,
they don't want to do a job.

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
So this time though, they had me go over. So
I go out and get a job guy.

Speaker 4 (01:08:22):
I beat the hell out of him, hit him with
my career and there like set him up on the
top to the belly the vaccine like that.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
That's it.

Speaker 4 (01:08:28):
I hit him with my finish, you know. And I
know the match was great because I can hear it
from the people. Plus it's easy when you go on
first instead of fiftieth. Then it was you know tape.
So I come through the curtain and I've been around enough,
and Curtain has coached me to be you know, like
I came through the and I was real humble, like
I knew it was great, but I came to like

(01:08:49):
just went back to the locker room. Then they said,
Vince wants to see it, okay, and Kirk goes with me,
which was such an advantage because I was really nervous.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
But now I got my buddy with me.

Speaker 4 (01:08:58):
Yeah, and Kurt and Vince will time. So I go
in there and he goes, well, I have a very impressive,
very impressed match. He says, I gotta put a gimmick
on you. He goes, I understand your father's in the army. Yes, sir,
I said, Evince, you want me to be g I Joe.
I'll be the best g I Joe I can be.
I said, you ever see Scarface? He went out and
I said, say, I love to the bad guy. And

(01:09:21):
Kurt was doing a stick with me because we used
to do it in the car in Minneapolis.

Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
So we're doing that.

Speaker 4 (01:09:26):
You need somebody like me, so you come points thinking
finger whisper, Look, Deve was a bad guy. You're never
gonna send a bad guy like me, and we're doing
this stuff. And he hasn't seen the movie, so he
thinks I'm a genius man. He thinks I'm making this.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
Stuff up, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:09:47):
And I've given him the whole stick, you know. That's
all I want is what I got coming to me
in the world, cheek on and everything in it. And
he and it's the right. These are lines right out
of the movie. And he thinks, oh my god, Bus
just to shoot for me because I am hungry. I
am scarfaced, because you know, I want I want to
be rich like these guys that I see in the

(01:10:08):
locker room. Yeah, and so he goes, well, okay, we
need a day and I know, I mean Vince. So
I thought of some names, and I'm going there prepared.
So I was singing like maybe, and the business was
different than you had to have a kind of a
marketable hook, you know, they had. So I singer maybe, shrug,
shadow or. I was singing a different names. But then
I thought Razor, and I said, I said how about Razor,

(01:10:30):
And he went, well, there's already Razor Rudder, you know
the box. I said, I can kick his monkey fucking ass.
I squashed him like a cockroach and Vence just started
and laughed and said, we need a last name starts
with an R.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
So I went, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:10:44):
I went to bathroom. Tito Santana was in there. Tito
was at the urinal. I was washing my hands. I said, Tito,
I need a last name starts with R.

Speaker 3 (01:10:52):
He went on. I ran right back Vince's office. I
went Razor. Ramoni said that's it. That was the and
we were then he just started.

Speaker 4 (01:11:01):
He left TV and took me to South Beach and
we shot vignettes of Razor. Wow, and it was all
stuff right out of the movie. Again, Vince doesn't know.
I said, I say, I'm gonna know, man, I need
a caddy, an older caddy. But was like Leopard interior,
and I need this, I need that, And I bought
in Florida. I bought a bunch of silk pants and

(01:11:23):
gaudy shirts are expensive. But you know it was Razor, Yeah,
it was, you know it was it was Tony Montana.
See these shoes made three hundred dollars. Man, I'm somebody
important like to me, like scarfaces, old deal. So if
he had money, he's wearing it, you know. And Vince
dug it and it worked.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
Did you. Did you kind of have the feeling when
you were shooting the vignettes and everything was going on
that that you knew this was gonna work.

Speaker 4 (01:11:51):
I it sounds really egotistical, but yeah I did. And
see I had Vince there. Vince left TV to go
personally direct this, and that was like unheard of. Kurt
told me, Vince doesn't leave TV. He said, this is
a big deal. Don't screw it up. So I go
there and I'll never forget Vince telling me. When I
do the first couple ons, he goes, no way, I

(01:12:12):
wanted you to talk even slower because I would go
say hello to the bad and he would go slower
because he's because it's obnoxious. You know, it gets people hot.
Because I'd go, I'm coming to the w w F.

Speaker 3 (01:12:37):
And it was so slow.

Speaker 4 (01:12:39):
It's like people are going, yeah, okay, okay, you know yeah,
you know, I walk out there and I go, everybody
listen to me. And Vince coached it and I did
it the way he said. And I mean, I had
a feeling it was going good because I've been around,
you know, five six years by now, and I knew
I had a kind of a hot gimmick and and

(01:13:01):
then when you know Vince gets behind it and pushes it,
you know it's it's gonna go. Yeah, come in, Come
on in, Ledge, I'll make you proud. Come on in, Ledge,
I'll make you proud. I already put you over Ledg.

(01:13:25):
You missed that segment. Well, protect ladies and Jo and
Larry's Vesco just centered the room living legend larious. I
already put that. I already told the whole Winnipeg story.

Speaker 3 (01:13:37):
Have great yard.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
Now this was Hre coming in as Razor.

Speaker 1 (01:13:44):
It was kind of a weird time in the w
w F because you had Hogan kind of on the
way out and more of.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
An emphasis on athleticism.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
Did you kind of feel like a mix in the
locker room of some guys that were, you know, part
of the new deal and some guys that maybe were
a little out dated.

Speaker 4 (01:14:01):
So the main thing I remember is that that's when
Vince was under real scrutiny for the steroid investigation. Yeah,
so everybody had to be clean the drug test because
I was taking steroids when I prior to that. So
I went from two ninety to about to sixty. Wow,
But what happened for me then was it worked better
because at sixty, you know, and then like throughout my

(01:14:23):
whole career, I mean more money, be it smaller because
I can wrestle great my stereo, or I could wrestle
big show, because when you're too big, some guys get
locked into that thing that they can't sell for a
guy who's smaller or something. But I'm not sure I
understand what you mean about the mix of things. There
was a transition going on, yeah, but see for me,
I was so happy that I was getting.

Speaker 3 (01:14:43):
A bush and I was at the big time. I
wasn't really worried about any transition. Knew them. I knew
my pocketbook was transitioned upward.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
At what point in your career did you kind of
think to yourself, I finally made it. I succeeded at this.

Speaker 3 (01:14:59):
I don't think the way that Vince drove us, and
I think he was probably smart to do it. It's like.

Speaker 4 (01:15:10):
The way I perceived it was like, I don't forget
my first match in the Guard and I wrestled Randy
Savage and the music's playing. Vin's standing right by me,
and I'm getting ready to go out, and he goes, wait,
make him wait? So we wait until the music's playing
and play it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:26):
Then I come out.

Speaker 4 (01:15:28):
But the point I'm trying to make is is the
way Vince, in my opinion, directed his talent was when
you go through the current, he's there going, you're a
major star. Everybody in this building is here to see you.

Speaker 3 (01:15:45):
You're a star. Go out there and tear the house down.

Speaker 4 (01:15:48):
And when you come back through, you're lucky to have
a job because there's ten guys who'll do it for less. Go,
get ready to get to the next town. Wow, not
that he ever said those words. But you're only as
good as your last performance.

Speaker 3 (01:16:02):
What are you doing lately? We don't care what you
did last week?

Speaker 4 (01:16:05):
You know, because the agents would go to house shows,
would watch the matches. One guy be in charge of
the box office, the other guy watching matches, and they
would watch them. And these guys were smart and they'd
watch a match and if you come back, they go,
you're sick, you're hurt. No, but what the hell is
that we take a night off? You'll do that shit.

(01:16:25):
You work your ass off every night, or we'll get
somebody else to do it. You know, yes, sir, you know,
I mean you're only as good as your last performance,
and I think that kind of mentality was good. Plus
back then, man, you know, we worked twenty thirty days
in a row. You know, we were on the road
all the time, and we were happy to do it.

(01:16:46):
It was a grind, but at the same time, you
get good at ed wrestling working all the time like that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
Was it hard to adjust to the travel schedule, find
time to work out and eat right and that kind
of thing.

Speaker 3 (01:16:59):
We'll see at that time too.

Speaker 4 (01:17:00):
I decided that in my opinion, like I was never
one of the body guys who shaved down and posed
or anything. I just wanted to be a wrestler who
happened to lift weights, not like a weightlifter who wrestled.
So and I always felt like Tarzan gets more pussy
than mister Universe, so I never wanted to worry about
being too big. What I travel with Sean Michaels for

(01:17:23):
most of my early part of my career in WWF,
and our routine was wrestle, go out, party and do
what we're gonna do. Go to the hotel next morning,
get up and eat breakfast, go to tanny bed. Excuse
me laying in tanny bed while the food digest, go in,
do thirty minutes on a StairMaster. Then we would superset,

(01:17:45):
pull ups and dips, go go eat again, go to town,
you know, because we.

Speaker 3 (01:17:53):
Called it the Tarzan workout. Just enough to you know,
pump you up and yeah that's enough, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
Yeah, what do you remember about Bill Watts came in
and helped Vince with the booking.

Speaker 3 (01:18:02):
I remember he didn't last very long. But one thing
I do remember was Watts liked me and.

Speaker 4 (01:18:10):
We were One time we were in Massis Square Garden
and Watson and Vince and Pat were up in the
audience watching the show. And that's when they were really
keV was the world champion, Shawn' was the Inner Contown champ,
and they were wrestling men on the mission because they
were getting Mabel ready for keV at SummerSlam. So they
really build Mabel or Vista whatever they call now, wrest keV.

Speaker 3 (01:18:32):
So Sean.

Speaker 4 (01:18:35):
keV wrestled Mabel and single, but Moe was out there
and so they beat keV up and or Diesel up,
left him laying. So Sean came out to make the
same people pop this massive square guard. Shawn comes out,
they beat him up, leave him laying. So then they
send Razor. Razor comes out, they beat me up and
leave me laying because they're getting these guys strong, because

(01:18:57):
they're getting ready for Kevin. The Kev's gonna beat him,
but they're building. So now they leave all of us
landing and they leave, so we all get up slow.

Speaker 3 (01:19:06):
We're in the garden.

Speaker 4 (01:19:07):
Now, I've already had the ladder match with Sean and
the Garden prior to this. So I pick up the
World Belt. I look at I walk over my hand
to keV and and and I think of this team too.
See they're already they're already promoting SummerSlam keV versus Mabel,
and they've just added the rematch or the ladder match,
Sean versus Razor. So now I pick up the I

(01:19:30):
Sea Belt. I kind of look up at the ceiling.
Now this is where we've had this other match in
the garden, and the fans are hit and they know
right away.

Speaker 3 (01:19:38):
I look at it.

Speaker 4 (01:19:40):
I look up at the ceiling and people start buzzing,
and Sean's smart, so he starts going, yeah, bring it
to me, that's mine, Bring it here, bring it here,
bring it here.

Speaker 3 (01:19:47):
So I look at it. I walk over. I stick
it out like this and Sean Reches wre not dropping
and everybody goes oh, and I go, I got you.

Speaker 4 (01:19:57):
And then I rolled out of the ring and I
started to walk down the aisle. Sean Michaels does not
like to be made a fool of. I'm walking down
the aisle and I get shoved in the back so hard,
I get like whiplashed. I thought a mark had jumped
over the rail, and it was Sean. But I'll never forget.
Bill Wats came to me afterwards in the un he went,
He goes, I don't know what they're doing with you.
You're over like the son of a bitch. I don't
know why they don't use you better, he said, I'll

(01:20:18):
tell you what they do. You weren't expecting that push
in the back. We're gonna know the third. But see,
Wats wanted full control and Vince wouldn't give it to him,
so he didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:20:27):
He was there like a week.

Speaker 2 (01:20:28):
Yeah, what do you remember about your first big series
with Brett Hart?

Speaker 4 (01:20:33):
I wrestled Brett. I worked there a year before Brett
even said hi to me. You know, Brett's just a
real eccentric kind of cat. Not that he was being
stand office or anything. It's just no way. Brett is
and I wrestled him at the Royal Rumble and Sacramento
and when they raided their bills bills, Bill Resis and

(01:20:53):
I put Brett over. But uh and see two, I
had Kurt. You know, I'm perfect in my ear me
that you know, I had to yield to Brett. I
didn't get Razor, didn't get much of his stuff in.
It was Brett's match.

Speaker 3 (01:21:08):
You know we did. We did what Brett wanted to do.

Speaker 4 (01:21:10):
If I could have years later that haven't had more
experience and stuff, I would have have been a different match.

Speaker 1 (01:21:18):
Now, some guys, obviously Flair being one of them, has
said that Brett's overrated.

Speaker 3 (01:21:24):
Some so he's not.

Speaker 2 (01:21:25):
What do you think from I mean, you've wrestled a
million times.

Speaker 3 (01:21:30):
If if I had a.

Speaker 4 (01:21:31):
Wrestling company, I would want Brett on my team. I
think he's great. You know, he's great. One thing about
Brett is like one thing I noticed I learned a
lot when I was at working you know, for Vince
and then working you know at w CW. Sometimes in
Larry's back there he can probably echo on this is
that sometimes you need guys who who's wrestling is entertaining

(01:21:55):
enough that the announcers can talk about other matches, they
can talk about angles. All these guys performed because Booker
sometimes just to complain, Man, they want to talk about
something else during my match. And I said, you know why,
book because you're so athletic and you're wrestling is so
aesthetically pleasing to watch that they don't have to talk
about your moves because they speak for themselves. And guys

(01:22:16):
like that, and you know, I guess how Brett was.
Brett could wrestle and guys like Benoir and Chris Jericho
and guys who are technically really sound, they're wrestling Eddie Guerrero.
They're wrestling is pretty to watch, you know, it's real,
it's you know, it's pretty. So you don't have to
talk about every move they make. You can talk about
it and later on Hopian will be wrestling staying and

(01:22:36):
blah blah blah. You can talk about the other angles
during these matches. So Brett had that ability. You know,
everything he did was crisp, you know, and you know,
if I would have come to the out.

Speaker 2 (01:22:50):
Hire Brett, Wow, members of your matches against Bob Becklan.

Speaker 3 (01:22:55):
See I wrestled. What happened was.

Speaker 4 (01:23:00):
Had beat back when the for the w w F
Championship and Jeff Jarrett Double J had be raised for
the Inner Conne Championship. So we're supposed to be I'm
supposed to wrestle Jeff and the b towns and Kevin's
into a Town's supposed to be wrestling.

Speaker 3 (01:23:14):
Back Then the thing is their new champion.

Speaker 4 (01:23:17):
Diesel is having horrible matches with Backland because Backlan is
a different style of wrestling. He's not making keV look
the way they want keV to look. I want him
looking great and strong and people screaming and yelling. So
they switch it. They send Backland to work with me,
and they send Double J to go bounce around for keV.
So now working with Backlund, and so I go to events.

(01:23:41):
And I was a huge mark for Dick Murdoch, and
I'd been in Japan with Dick Murdoch. So I go
to events and said, look, you know, Backlan's doing this
old school thing and his old school rap on the
mic and stuff. I said, can we bring Dick Murdoch
in kind of put him with with Backland? So that
at least I can trade punch with Murdoch's. Murdoch was
one of the best punches in the business, and I

(01:24:03):
think I threw a pretty good punch.

Speaker 3 (01:24:05):
So we did that Vince.

Speaker 4 (01:24:08):
At that point, I'd been around long enough to ask
for things, so Vince brought Murdoch in. Murdoch would sit
at a chair at ringside. My back would go out
and talking big words and stuff. Then Murdock would come
out and go, but I don't know what you're saying,
but it better been good, he said, I'm just gonna
pull up a chair here and watch. He'd put his
chair like right outside the ring, you know, and he'd

(01:24:29):
sit there and we did a spot where boom boo,
boom and back on side step and I'd go over
the top and just kind of bump Dick a little
bit enough where he'd get angry. So then you know,
bang bang bang. I can't remember what happened. I'd be
selling or something he'd throw me in. Anyway, Dick would

(01:24:49):
become involved in a match, and Dick and I would
start trading punches, and then boom, boom boom, I hit Dick.

Speaker 3 (01:24:54):
I hit him with the discus punch my carry on
Air tribute. I hit him with the discus. I'd go,
that's it.

Speaker 4 (01:25:00):
I'd stick them like I'm gonna go for my finish.
I go like this and back them come behind me,
put me a chicken leg. But at least we got
the people up before we did it, because otherwise I
couldn't do it. Because back in the THUW Punches and
Raiser was like a punching big face.

Speaker 3 (01:25:15):
So that's right.

Speaker 4 (01:25:17):
I mean, Bob was, you know, a super person and
all that. But like you're talking about before, like the
Crush and the Bruiser and guys some different eras in.

Speaker 1 (01:25:25):
A different area, Nords a lot of the same things
when he would work with them up there too. I'd
like to get your thoughts on this. I don't I
don't know if you know, but remember May Mountain Rock
Mac paen Uh. He's been shopping this video around for
like the last couple of years, like a home video
that he took when he went on the road when

(01:25:45):
he was in the WF with you guys. Yeah, and
you know it's supposedly as all the guys well, a
lot of guys doing drugs. You know, one of them
might even be Luis Poccoli's on there talking about having
sex with a prostitute and stuff. You know, what do
you think about it? Yes, you know, what do you

(01:26:06):
do you think about something like that guy?

Speaker 4 (01:26:07):
You know, I think I think he'd better be real
careful what he does because he'll get sued because I
didn't sign any kind of release. Yeah, you know, he can't.
He can't make money off it. He can, he can
show it to his friends at his house, but he
can't commercially distribute something without getting release from embody. He
was on that video the way I understand it, And uh,
that's kind of a shame that he is so talentless

(01:26:31):
and so harder for money that he has to cash
in on something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:26:34):
You know, we touched on your your series with the
one two three kid. What do you think even today
when like that night that he pined is still one
of the most remembered moments on raw even to this
day years later.

Speaker 4 (01:26:50):
You know what's so funny to me is that years later,
when like I met guys like Ray Ostereo and who
would do Guerrero and w c W, they saw it
in Mexico and they thought, because the way the moon
saw happened. It looked like Kid's knee hit me. They
thought it was a shoot. They thought I was knocked out.
I remember leaving the man, I mean when I left
the ring in the Manhattan or going upstairs to the

(01:27:11):
dress room and Papa Shango and Guy's come to be going, man,
you fill a pissed ask.

Speaker 3 (01:27:17):
Are you fired? Wow? And I knew about six months before.

Speaker 4 (01:27:20):
I just didn't tell him because Vince said, don't tell
anybody because it won't work if you tell people. But
I just, you know, I'm just glad that it happened.
And and then to have Kid going be such a
dear friend of mine is even cooler because like, if
he wasn't such a cool guy like I would have
hated to do it and then have the guys would
have to be like a jack off, right, I mean,

(01:27:42):
kid Kid had a room in a hotel on the
street and he's left to my room last night, you know,
I mean, he's just a little psycho comes and visits me.
He came for a weekend, stayed for a week at
my house in Florida.

Speaker 1 (01:27:51):
You know, he's the kid wow, As I mean now
today and you talked about this when you were talking
about putting kid over and how you went about it
and that kind of thing when you were younger. Do
you think the art of the whole idea of somebody
doing a job and putting somebody over is lost when
it comes to guys bitch and complaining about not wanting

(01:28:11):
to put certain guys over.

Speaker 4 (01:28:15):
See, I broke in, like when I was in Kansas
City and stuff like that. I was doing jobs for
guys like Rufus R. Jones, who was probably sixty then
and I was jacked up about to ninety and Rufus
would beat me with two fake trains in a headbutt,
you know, two tagles in a head buttt and it
took him six seconds to get down and cover.

Speaker 3 (01:28:35):
So I knew early on it was fake. I always
knew it was fake. I never had a problem with that.

Speaker 4 (01:28:40):
And I used to get in trouble in w CW
for doing jobs for guys like in fact I did.
We were I rusted Chris Jericho in the Spectrum in Philly,
and it was it was leading into a match against
me against Sex Luber and Halloween Havoc and Larry's Obisco
is gonna be the special referee and Larry was announcing

(01:29:00):
on night for that night. So Bischoff told me to
just go out there, squashed Jericho, keep hitting him with
your finish until Sabisco comes to the ring. Square off
with Sabisco, you know, get something and get what you
can out of it, then roll out of the ring.
So I went to Chris and said, Chris, how many

(01:29:20):
times you've been and respected me with a never? I said,
I've been here with them two hundred times. And Philly's
a tough tab. I mean, it's a great town, but
I mean they ain't gonna like lie a hard Chris Jericho.
So I said, man, the only way we're going to
get any kind of reaction is if you beat me.
I said, think of some cool way to beat me

(01:29:41):
out of my finish. I said, come tell me later,
don't tell anyone, and if anybody says anything to you
after the match, tell them those halls. I did, and
I'll take all the heat. So we did it, and
he Christ was smart and I picked him up like
this from my finished. He kicked his feet off the
turnbungle small package me one two three, Then I hammered him,
then then I beat him on. I finished DENTI, Larry came,

(01:30:01):
we did the angle. I thought it was way better.
And when I came back to the locker room, Bishoff goes,
didn't I tell you to go over? And I want
you didn't like it? Yeah, but didn't I tell you
to go over? I said, you tell me you didn't
like what I just did. I'm not saying I didn't
like because Bishoff for me used to heat. You know,
we had a crazy man hit.

Speaker 3 (01:30:20):
But it's I did and said I didn't like it.

Speaker 4 (01:30:21):
But I thought I told you to go over, I said, Man,
I just thought my job to make the segment as
entertaining as I could.

Speaker 3 (01:30:27):
Oh, just never mind, But I just I don't know, man,
I think I.

Speaker 4 (01:30:34):
Think it's it's television. You're supposed to make it as
exciting as you can, and if you have to, you know,
I felt the right thing to do that night is Philadelphia,
was for me to lose to get a reaction, because
I want my segments to be exciting and entertained. And
I already knew that I had Larry's a biscus involved
in it, which is a big deal. And I'm going
into an angle against like Sluber, who's a major babyface,

(01:30:56):
and we're going into a pay per view, so I
want my segments to be exciting, and I felt that
was the right thing to do. You know, I'm not
I think I was. At that point in w CW,
I was probably the highest paid job or any history
of WOW.

Speaker 2 (01:31:11):
Members of your matches with Jeff Jarett.

Speaker 4 (01:31:14):
I knew Jeff from working for his father's company and
you know Tennessee, and Jeff came in and the Razor
had that TSA panna spot upper middle baby face where
guys come up, heels come up, they work with kid first,
then they go to Razor, and if they have good
matches with Razor.

Speaker 3 (01:31:35):
Then they go over.

Speaker 4 (01:31:36):
Then they work with either Sean Michaels or Diesel, and
if the match with Razor isn't up to par, then
there on the way down. So I was working with Jeff,
and I think Jeff would agree that he got better
at working with me because I'd been working with a
lot of great guys. I mean I worked with Sean
Michaels every night for two years, so you know, I

(01:31:56):
could go and I knew how to do all the
I had. You know, I had big man stuff that
I could do with like keV. So if I wrestled
a big guy, had my big man stuff. The rest
of the smaller, quick guys, I had the little quick
guy stuff. So I had a little you know, I
had a little file, you know, a photo file of
stuff to do, you know. Yeah, so I tried to
do stuff I did with Sean. With Jeff didn't click

(01:32:20):
right away, but after a few matches, you know, we
got in the groove. Like I actually was watching old
tapes before and I saw a first match and I went,
Then I watched one like at WrestleMania eleven or something,
and I went, Okay, we got better, you know, because
at first I made the mistake of coming down to
the guys level, Like sometimes if the guy couldn't couldn't,

(01:32:44):
I couldn't step up. Sometimes I made the mistake of
coming down and guys like Kurt hitting his stuff, and
Sean jumped in my face and went numb and better.
One guy looks bad than both guys are bad if
he can't go bury them. So that's what we did.
But Jeff the pleasure work with him. See he's a
Southern style you know, in the South, they throw punches. Yeah,

(01:33:05):
so me and Jeff trade punches, you know, and that
was fine.

Speaker 1 (01:33:09):
Wow, speaking of Sean going into the ladder match at WrestleMania,
how how far did you and Sean want to go
as far as pushing the limits with it.

Speaker 4 (01:33:23):
What happened was we showed up in some towns out
west which were Blackjack Lances.

Speaker 3 (01:33:28):
Towns, and see how knew landsa for many. So I
was kind of Lance's boy, and we.

Speaker 4 (01:33:32):
Just showed up some towns and what had happened to
Sean for some reason, had been suspended, so he still
had the Intercondo belt. He'd never been beaten, So then
Vince needed an Intercando champion, so they had about royal
and then the last two guys are me and Rick Martel,
and Martel put me overside the Intercatto champ. But Sean
had never been beaten. So when Sean came back from

(01:33:52):
this bogie suspension, he wore his belt and I wore
my belt, and we do interviews and he'd go, we
never beat me, and go, yeah, you're right, I know
you never be me either, you know, and if you
you know, so it was a natural angle. It worked
out sweet because so we just showed up in these
towns out west and the house shows and we're having
ladder matches. We're going what you know, we didn't never

(01:34:13):
even have one, so we were just out there and
actually we had some better matches that weren't televised. We
had some sweet matches and house shows where sometimes the
stuff just goes right, like sometimes stuff happened back to
the day, like the ladder will bounce off the roape,
we'll come back and hit you know, just things will
happen that you don't plan. We had some better ones
that knowing, I mean, people saw live that weren't on

(01:34:35):
pay per views. But Lansa we were just supposed to
have a regular match at WrestleMania, and Lansa told Vince
that these guys are having a hell of a ladder match.
Maybe should stick that on the pay view. And because
of Lanso, we had a ladder match there. But we
uh you know, naturally we won't have the best match
we could, and uh, you know, I thought it was
pretty good. I mean, it's it was. It was good.

(01:34:57):
It was a really good match, but I the way
I'm man we had it seems like we had one
and uh, Sam Bernardino or somewhere out there in front of.

Speaker 3 (01:35:05):
Not that many people. That was that was better?

Speaker 1 (01:35:07):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (01:35:09):
Did you know it after the match?

Speaker 3 (01:35:10):
Did you?

Speaker 2 (01:35:11):
Did you know you had a great match?

Speaker 4 (01:35:15):
I could feel it during the match instead that it
was just going because see you got to remember, I'd
wrestled Sean so many times.

Speaker 3 (01:35:21):
I traveled with him.

Speaker 4 (01:35:22):
We shared rooms together, we were in car rental cars together,
were on airplanes together. So we knew each other so well.
All we had to do was look at each other.
We didn't have to talk. We can look and you
go and you look and go remember Chicago, Yeah, okay,
I remember we did in Boston, all right, And you
know you'd be on the floor and you look at
him and go Boston and you go, yeah, and we do,

(01:35:44):
you know what I mean. We had such good chemistry
and such good timing, but things were just falling in
place and it just and plus it was massive, square garden.

Speaker 3 (01:35:53):
You know, it's just this is dream come true.

Speaker 4 (01:35:57):
You know. I remember though, with that type of mass. See,
once you said in an emotion, you can't edit it
or speed it up.

Speaker 3 (01:36:04):
We had to do what we had.

Speaker 4 (01:36:06):
You know, once it's in motion, you have to keep
just plodding along and I'll never forget come back to
the locker room, and we felt we had a pretty
sweet match. And I remember too laying there like I
climbed up, we have both belts and fell down and
I'm laying there selling Sean Salich and baby Earl Edner's referee,
and he comes over and goes Seanson climb up the

(01:36:26):
ladder with both belts, so then I climbed back up,
and to that now it was this famous pitch of
me whole no belts that Sean's I'm later and sold.
Shawn such a pro that he wants the mask to
be good no matter who's being featured, because it's our match,
you know. But when I got back to the locker room,
Savage went, first of all, I want to see great match.

(01:36:48):
You don't want to say you're very selfish because we
were because we went along and cut into their time.
What time isn't it forte? What times are flightly ledge? Okay,
so we got to be there at six ers right,
something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:37:06):
Yet I take it af forget when we wrap up
finish all right, buddy?

Speaker 1 (01:37:12):
And at what point do you think the click in
general started to gain any kind of political power.

Speaker 4 (01:37:20):
Well, first of all, Bam Bam Bigelow God rest his
whole was the one who named us to click.

Speaker 3 (01:37:26):
But we were just a bunch of friends who all
thought the same.

Speaker 4 (01:37:32):
And again it was it was really the influence of
perfect that Kurt Henning had on us. Kurt, Kurt taught
me a lot and many Sean was around him. You know.
Then when keV came along with Diesus came along, we
taught him the way we thought business should be done.
When Kid came along, Kid had to do business the
way we thought it should be done because he was

(01:37:53):
in a hard click.

Speaker 3 (01:37:54):
And later chib H came in, we taught him this
is how we do bid. This is the way we
think it should be done.

Speaker 4 (01:38:01):
If you put a guy over, man, you put him
over like a m effort, you know, I mean, like
Pat Patterson was the one who was so sweet. When
Pat Passon tells you a finish, you can feel it, man,
you can feel the people like he go, you make
a come back.

Speaker 2 (01:38:20):
And then he beats you.

Speaker 3 (01:38:21):
I mean, but you know he's telling me to finish,
and you can feel it. You can hear the people.

Speaker 4 (01:38:26):
And he used to tell me and Sean, he goes, Okay,
you know, you know you guys have the batch every time,
but you know you made event. It got to be
a little something extra, you know what I mean. You
made an event, You made an event something extra. So
that's when we started thinking.

Speaker 3 (01:38:39):
Like, I get it.

Speaker 4 (01:38:42):
This is this is the distinction between being like a
gray wrestler and then being the ship. It's something extra.
That's when you start doing the faulter that went to
oh and you know where people go, Man, after you
hit me like Sean and I would do some matches,
we do fifteen twenty false finishes, and pretty soon people are.

Speaker 3 (01:39:04):
Going, we didn't even care what what happens.

Speaker 4 (01:39:07):
Now we've had our money's worth, you know what I mean,
Like do whatever you want, guys have a match, you know,
and I mean it just it's just things that I
wish I could spend more time about Pat Pattison because
he's one of the smartest guys in the business, you know.
And then to just that stuff about doing something after
you have something at the click. That's the way we operated.

(01:39:31):
And the thing was too is if if three or
four guys are in the main events, you get a
certain amount of power because you're you.

Speaker 3 (01:39:41):
You go to events and go, well, what about this?
I think we should do this? What about this guy?

Speaker 4 (01:39:46):
Man, this guy's a hell of talent. Why don't we
do something with him? Or how about have kids run
down and do that? You know, and you start kicking
around ideas. And if you ride down the car. See,
we all travel together too, So if you've got three
or four guys, ride down the car and we're all
we do is wrestle, running road twenty five days a month.
All we do is we're consumed with wrestling and partying

(01:40:06):
and doing whatever we're doing. But I mean, we're talking
business a lot of time, so you start talking about stuff.
So then you want you're going in and you got
an idea, and your ideas just have to involve all
your buddies, you know, because you know they think the same.

Speaker 3 (01:40:22):
And I don't know, I mean, I just think it's
funny that.

Speaker 4 (01:40:27):
That this whole click thing is growing to this mythic portion,
Oh my god, because so many people hate the click.

Speaker 3 (01:40:33):
There's a whole facts people hate thet olpice. All they
care about themselves.

Speaker 4 (01:40:38):
Well yeah, man, I'm an independent contractor get it independent.
It's like, yeah, man.

Speaker 3 (01:40:43):
Like, if I get to choose to go and do
business with rather do business with my friends, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:40:48):
I mean, speaking of myths, there's a there's a myth
legend that the Click went on strike one weekend at
the house shows what's the story behind that?

Speaker 3 (01:40:59):
What I said one time we had a big summit.
One time, I remember a kid in what town we
were in.

Speaker 4 (01:41:07):
But all of a sudden, we were all sitting in
a restaurant eating and Sean got pissed off and he
called the office. And then what it happened was they
did an angle where Kid was a special referee and
I was dressed in SID.

Speaker 3 (01:41:20):
And I picked it up for my finished. Kid pulled
him down.

Speaker 4 (01:41:25):
I turned around and Sid power bout me and kind
of like that, and the DBOSSI stuck the money in
my mouth and Kid walked right. I stuck took the
money from his pocket. I mean, it was sweet, but
it was also but it was supposed to be a
non title match, and it was a tape thraw. We
used to do one live in one tape. Then the
word came down that they were gonna go ahead and
just make it. They were gonna switch the belt anyway,

(01:41:46):
so I called Vince's advice, you want sid to have
the belt, I got, no problem, would sit over in
the middle anywhere you want on TV, I said, but
by doing this this way, And Vince was real big
on the per self, you know, I said, the perception
is that I wouldn't do business. You're making it look
like Razor was a mark and he wouldn't do business.

(01:42:07):
So you had to take You said, to steal the bell,
you had to swerve the.

Speaker 3 (01:42:11):
Belot off me. I said, that's bullshit.

Speaker 4 (01:42:15):
So then and by then Kevin called and next thing
you know, Vince goes, where are you guys, And we're
staying at some little worst Western and somewhere in Indiana.

Speaker 3 (01:42:25):
Or something like that.

Speaker 4 (01:42:26):
Vincent pat Patis would fly to the hotel, rent the
conference room. We all sit there and have a meeting,
and then they come to the town with us, and
we get there late, and you're in trouble, and then
in walks no ad trouble with the boss.

Speaker 3 (01:42:41):
I think that might be what you refer to.

Speaker 2 (01:42:43):
I mean, yeah, I think that's it. The weekend that
Vince flew to the house shows.

Speaker 3 (01:42:47):
Yeah you came, because what's going on?

Speaker 4 (01:42:49):
Because now he's got several of his major guys all bitching,
and that's the worst thing.

Speaker 3 (01:42:57):
You don't want. You don't want you.

Speaker 4 (01:42:59):
Top a couple of matches right down the road going
because by the time we get to town, nobody wants
to do a thing I hate. I'm quitting me too,
you know, you know, because negativity spreads just like positivity does.

Speaker 1 (01:43:14):
Yeah, what happened between you and Sheen Douglas in the
shoot that we did with him, among many he said.

Speaker 2 (01:43:24):
That when you guys work together in the w WF,
that you.

Speaker 1 (01:43:28):
Guys were working every night and you wanted to do
the same exact match and he wanted to change it up,
and it was friction between the two of you guys.

Speaker 3 (01:43:38):
Yeah, all do respect to Shane.

Speaker 4 (01:43:40):
We get along a lot better now than we did
when we were working together because I see him once
in a while. I'd seen him the TNA, and but
Shane came in with this huge reputation as being phenomenal worker.
So again Raiser was supposed to get him ready for
Sean because they thought Sean Michaels and Shane Douglas is
going to rewrite wrestling because he had this report from

(01:44:00):
independent shows and you see every other stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:44:02):
It's being great.

Speaker 4 (01:44:03):
I thought he was overrating, but I worked with him,
so I said, okay, I'm working with him. I'll do
my little guy athletic match and stuff. Let's see what
he can do here. Because he's coming in he don't
know anything. We're in these major markets. I got a
good match if I have to fall back on my
standard stuff. You don't think Flair does the same stuff
all the time. I used to always laugh about why

(01:44:25):
does Flair do the same match all the time. Then
you know what, I fear realized because he works with
different Jabronis every night. So he goes, you know what,
let's just do what I know this works. I'll just
do my stuff. Yeah, so you know, I did some
stuff with Shane. The one thing I knew when and
it was probably a really a professional meet, but we

(01:44:46):
were in a Royal Albert Hall in London and we
had just flown in that day, went to the hotel,
we had to go straight to the reading work. This
is the Royal Albert Hall. Man this where the Beatles
of played. This is a cool building and it has
sold out And this is London, England and I'm wrestling
Shane there and we're having to match and we're tired. Man,
we've flung, we've been partying on the planet and we're tired.

(01:45:09):
But you know, when you're in the rings hold.

Speaker 3 (01:45:11):
Of the thing is, let's go. So we're working on
So he goes, go home, go home.

Speaker 4 (01:45:16):
So we go home. You're back in the locker room,
and I said, you hurt, man, And I'm see, I'm
just kind of tired. Here has a lot of flight.
Now I should have taken him into a lit in
a shower or something like that. What you tired, f
you take some fucking pills then, motherfucker like everybody else,

(01:45:37):
because this is how I feed my family. This is London, England,
you fucking prick, and this is how I get paid.
I don't care if you're tired, which is wrong and
excuse my language, and a referenced to drugs is not
the answer. But that's what a lot of guys did
when they were tired. You know what I mean, you're tired,
drink some coffee. I don't give a fuck. You're tired,
you know, and tell it to somebody who cares because

(01:45:58):
I don't care. But that was not a good way,
not the way to start a working relationship, and we
didn't have very good matches and his and he didn't
have any success in WF And not because I held
him out and bury him the way he may feel.
I just think he was overrat and he wasn't as
good as as advertised.

Speaker 1 (01:46:20):
Do you think, you guys, the click you guys speakings
were too hard on Chris Candido back then.

Speaker 4 (01:46:28):
Yes, yeah, I mean it was not his fault. It
was a stupid gimmick. I mean, come on, it was
a horrible given. Chris is a really talented, good worker.
And the thing is too coming in with your girlfriend

(01:46:48):
into that sharp tank environment that we had going. You know,
we almost prided ourselves on how vicious our locker room was.
You know what I mean, you knew, okay, suit you
got everybody go to the curtain and watch no competition
from them.

Speaker 3 (01:47:04):
Don't have to worry.

Speaker 4 (01:47:05):
Or if you're good, I'm better watch this guy ship.
I better step my game up. This guy's been damn good,
you know. And it was. It was a brutal, vicious,
cut though kind of environment. I'm not saying it's the
right thing, but that's that was worth the conditions. Some
guys thrive on that some guys don't. The guys who
thrive survived and prosper. Yeah, but you know, he got

(01:47:32):
ribbed and brutalized and stuff a lot. But then I
cross paths them later and stuff, and it seemed like
he got it because he knew he had a lame gimmick.
It wasn't his fall body donas and skipping sunny. I mean,
come on, and they gonna get over, you know. But yeah,
it was you know, he got treated bad. I crossed

(01:47:53):
passed from the TNA like years later, and and it was,
you know, there was no hard feelings and stuff. And
I was because I think people have to realize that
a lot of it man, with the conditions. You know,
it's work man, it ain't play. You know, it's it's
show business. It's not show fun. You know, it's business.
It's cutthroat. I'm getting paid because there was no guaranteed money.

(01:48:14):
It was real competitive. Whoever was the best, you got
the most. And Vince perpetually that kind of environment, and
so did everybody else.

Speaker 2 (01:48:23):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:48:23):
I felt like I always looked at like, if you're
the third leading rusher in the NFL, and you should
be paid commensurate to your abilities. If the leading rusher
gets this much and you're the third leading rusher, you
should get paid this much. If you're in working for
Vincent WWFWE and you're the second best performer, you're having

(01:48:44):
the second best matches, you're selling the second most merchandiser,
getting best crowd reaction stuff to be paid commensurer to that,
and so that kind of I don't know saying it
is the right way, but it bred a real cutthroat
competitive environment. I don't feel it was nasty, but it was.
It's a bunch of guys too. Man, it's a bunch
of jocks. It's a bunch of men who were on

(01:49:06):
the road away from their families doing what they do.
So our only release was in the Ring, and I
had I'm a huge Jered y Lewis fan. So my
thing was like when Jered y Lewis was on tour
years ago, when the groups used to tour together, whoever
had top ten hits or top forty hits. So Jered

(01:49:28):
y Lewis gets to New York City Radio Radio City
Music Hall, but Chuck Berry has a number one hit
at that time, Jerry Lee has like four hits in
the top ten, but Chuck Berry has number one, so
he gets the going to laughs. So Jered Lee Lewis
goes on before him. Terry goes crazy, he sets his
piano on fire, tip tears the house down, comes back

(01:49:49):
and goes follow that. So that's the kind of attitude
that I tried to have and that I think the
rest of the Click had was like, yeah, yeah, we
heard about you merging. Pretty good, prove it, because I'm
gonna go out there and do everything I can to
make the people talk about Razoromoon or Scott All when
they leave the building, when they were walking their apartment,
I want to go, man, that Scott Hall is a

(01:50:09):
funny son of gun man. That was a hell of
a match. They don't even remember who won or lost.
They just want I just want to go, man that
some events was good. I want to I can't wait
till if I had Kid were jumping, But before they
could even get Brass down the aile, the people started.

Speaker 3 (01:50:23):
Going one two three, one two because they wanted to
see me beat that little prigs ass.

Speaker 4 (01:50:29):
So Kid came out and he was working earlier in
the match in like some eight man, then coming out
working in like semi made with me because he is
a main event. And we were rocking the house because
kid has enough offense to get me in trouble. He'd
get me in trouble people, right.

Speaker 3 (01:50:45):
Right, I mean we were tearing the house down, and
I just knew that. I believe.

Speaker 4 (01:50:50):
I believe that Kid and I should have been the
angle and could be in the money. I could have
worked with Goldust at another time or whatever. I mean,
I don't know how I asked the story. I thought
it was bad taste. The business was different than we
weren't doing things that controversial. I rebelled against it. I said,
no events which hurt my career. I heard gold Dust
feel I heard Dustin's feelings. If I never meant to,

(01:51:13):
I still didn't get to work with kids, So it
was like lose lose situation.

Speaker 2 (01:51:17):
How did the whole jump to w CW come about?
And what was Vince's reaction when you told him?

Speaker 4 (01:51:24):
I remember going to Vince. I've been working there a
while and I knew my position and I had no
problem with it because I remember when I first started,
Vince said to me, when I first started doing to raise,
Vince looked at me and said You're gonna make a
lot of money.

Speaker 3 (01:51:38):
And I said, thank you. And I said, you know, Vince,
I don't have to have the most. I just want
a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:51:45):
And so I've been in a few years, and you know,
my money was going up and up and up and
then started to level off. But I'm thinking, a wait
a minute, I've been here a while and I'm more
of an ass set now than I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:51:58):
More over my merchant.

Speaker 3 (01:52:00):
I sells people.

Speaker 4 (01:52:02):
You can leave me late every night and guess what
they you can't raise her, you know, And so I
feel like I'm pretty valuable with a company. I'm a
babyface who can do jobs and stay over. And so
I asked for more money. I pulled Vince aside of
TV one time and I asked, hey, Dance, can I
talk to them about my money?

Speaker 3 (01:52:21):
I said, is there?

Speaker 4 (01:52:22):
I see because I learned this from Kurt too how
to go about it. So I said, Vince, can I
ask you something? I said, Is there something that I
can improve on?

Speaker 3 (01:52:30):
I said, is it? Do I need to improve on my.

Speaker 4 (01:52:32):
Ring work or something that I can do better on
my interviews so that I can make more money. Like
the guys who preceded me. No, it's I'm absolutely certainly
pleased with your performance and your interviews are fine. I said, well,
then I just can't understand why my money isn't going up.
So the next thing I know, I'm summoned to Stanford

(01:52:52):
to the office and I had to sit at a
meeting and a double team, you know, JJ, Dill and
Vince sit there, and I was out. They're real slick
when you go to the office, like they they phone
the secretary. Okay, Razors on the way in, so they
flip all the posters over so that razors, all the takers,
you know, all the things that have undertaker on, they

(01:53:12):
flip them, flip them over to the Razors. Said, you know,
you walk in your office and your posters are everywhere.
And then they brought they brought up the secretary of
right on Q comes in and dumps a big thing
of fan mail out and it's going to look at
the effect you have on people.

Speaker 3 (01:53:26):
People all over the world. You know, you touch their lives.
And I said, Vince, you know I'm my kid's favorite
wrestlers too. Man. You know I have two kids. I'm
their favorite wrestler, and I'm never home and Vince had
a check on the table.

Speaker 4 (01:53:39):
I just glanced at it. He said, that's yours. Take
it on side is contract? Three year contract? Take it
that checks yours. It's yours today. Take it three year contract.
I said, Vince, I can't work your schedule for three
more years.

Speaker 3 (01:53:50):
It was two years in two.

Speaker 4 (01:53:51):
I said, I can't do too. He said, tell me
what you want one year. I said, I want to
think about it, you know, I said, Vince. I said,
how about I said, I ain know a mathematician, but
I get my merchandise statements.

Speaker 3 (01:54:05):
And I said, if we moved the.

Speaker 4 (01:54:07):
Desk one point a little bit over, I said, would
the mcpann family really notice it, because the Hall family
would notice. And you, well, I'm not going to do that.
You get the same thing to take her and Diesel
and Shaw get. You get the same thing maybe in
the future, but no, I'm no. So I had okay,
I said, how about Japan. I want to work for you,
but let me have four or five weeks a year
and go to Japan and get their money. See, it

(01:54:29):
won't be your money, Vince, to be their money or
like you see, because to Van's before he went public,
if you made more money, he made less the way
he viewed it because it was coming out of his pocket, right.
So I said, well, the fans money. See if they
if they buy raised merchandise, that's their money. Or let
me go Japan and get that Japanese money. No, No,
as soon as I had you over there, heck I

(01:54:50):
need to hear so okay. So Kid had been talking
to Barry Blooms agent out in LA and he represented
Jeff see Materia. He never handled wrestlers before he handled Jesse.
After Jesse was done wrestling making movies. I was the
first wrestler they worked with, and Kid was talking to him.

(01:55:11):
A Kid called me from his office and because Kid
was kind of feeling out w CW, and I said.

Speaker 3 (01:55:17):
They're gonna pay you how much?

Speaker 2 (01:55:19):
I said, find out how bad they want me?

Speaker 4 (01:55:21):
Because Vince had you so busy working that you didn't
even think anybody else wanted you. You got to go
to Target signed autographs for free, and then then drive
two in the miles to the town helping out late
because you get yelled at.

Speaker 3 (01:55:33):
Yeah, you know, I was so busy working, I didn't
even know that there was a demand for me.

Speaker 2 (01:55:40):
I just knew.

Speaker 3 (01:55:40):
God I got to get to the town. I got
hold him out late, and so when I gave my notice.

Speaker 4 (01:55:48):
When I got I got the offer, I signed a
letter of intent with w CW, and then I gave
my night. Yet, Vince's contract was a one year contract
that rolled over. Every year rolled over if you didn't
give a nine day written notice written that you not
that you're leaving, but you don't want your contract to
roll over. So I sent him a telegram. I sent
him a letter. I said, we did a covered dollar basis.

Speaker 3 (01:56:12):
So then as soon as I can give my notice.

Speaker 4 (01:56:16):
I'm at some spot showing in New Jersey and Sean
and keV aren't there because they're doing public relations somewhere
in Europe and they're fight slating.

Speaker 3 (01:56:23):
They're not there.

Speaker 4 (01:56:24):
So now Razers is gonna work twice. Taker's there was
it was a medium sized town. You know, it's a
pretty good house. But now Sean and keV aren't there.
So now I'm gonna work twice. I think Taker's gonna
work twice. We're try to save the town. Tony Greed
comes up to me and he goes, uh, they want
you to call the doctor. That means called the piss
test doctor deepest quality up in trot. So I go

(01:56:45):
call his wife, says.

Speaker 3 (01:56:46):
He's not home. I go back. I started putting my
gear on. Agree.

Speaker 4 (01:56:49):
He goes, well, what are you doing? I said, putting
my gear. I'm telling the doctor's not there. He goes, well,
they want you to leave the building.

Speaker 3 (01:56:57):
I said what I said?

Speaker 4 (01:56:59):
Now, wait a minute, what about this chain of custody
we have? But this is all confidential. I said, you're
telling me you know the results of the piss test
before I do.

Speaker 3 (01:57:07):
Ah.

Speaker 4 (01:57:08):
I said, that sounds a little kabookie. She said, how
you know what you're gonna tell me I got diabetes
or something. I said, you're telling me I'm dirty on
a piss test before the doctor tells me. And plus see,
the piss test was six weeks old. Like gee, because
when I as soon as I said that, as soon
as he told me that, I said, I guess they
got my notice. And taker was sitting right next to me.

(01:57:29):
He said, God, why don't they just pushed the guy
out the door. Because it wasn't like I wanted to leave,
but I didn't want my contact to roll over. I
wanted to say vince like I'm really serious about that's talking.
Let's talk money, and like seriously, because I'm not a mark,
you know, I'm not bread hard about it. I don't
care give me a bell you paid before a year?

Speaker 3 (01:57:50):
No beat me every night. I want a fucking million,
and I don't know I wouldn't do it. So I
took the money, went to w c W. Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:58:03):
Now when you when you came in there, did they
already kind of have the idea floating around about an
nWo type.

Speaker 3 (01:58:09):
Of gimmick or did and what happened so cool?

Speaker 4 (01:58:13):
And my accident was Chev's contact ended expired a week
after mine, just because that's the way he came in.
It wasn't structured that way or anything. That's just the
way it happened. S which made it so cool for
the angle down there because I wrestled. I finished for
events on a Sunday night, MASTERTSB Garden eyes on Nichro

(01:58:33):
the next day, and it was Larry's the biscos idea
to have me come through the audience and interrupt the
match that's in progress. Wow, and not not hit the
ring and beat the guys up, just walking and grabbed
the mic like you would if you know the boys.

Speaker 3 (01:58:47):
Know me, they're gonna beat me up. They're not supposed to.
They're having a match.

Speaker 4 (01:58:52):
I just grabbed the mic and go hey and I
start talking and they just stopped wrestling people what And
it was so cool And it was all biscos idea
because Bishoff would have had me walk down the aisle.
I came through the crowd, talked, did whatever told me
to do? Later I told him I had a surprise
for him next week. That's when keV came. And the
whole reason it worked was because people thought Vince sent

(01:59:15):
us down there. People thought we still worked for Vints.
That's why it worked.

Speaker 2 (01:59:21):
Well. Now, was Hogan originally going to be a part
of the group or how did.

Speaker 4 (01:59:26):
That off come about? Well, in Hawk's contract, he has
creative control over his character. That means he doesn't have
to do anything that he doesn't want to do, which is.

Speaker 3 (01:59:35):
A cool thing to have.

Speaker 4 (01:59:36):
I didn't have it, but Halk added, and you know
he deserved it. So we're at the bash at the
Beach in Daytona, and the show has already started. The
paper he's already started. Haulk is flying on a private
jet from Cali to Daytona, so he's in the air.

Speaker 3 (01:59:51):
We can't get.

Speaker 4 (01:59:52):
Contact with him on the phone. We're not sure that
he's going to do it because he's invested in a
lot of years into being a hero, a good guy.
We're not sure he wants to be a villain. He
may not want to. But when he gets there, having
seen the success at Kevi and I are having, coming in,
he's in. Hulk's smart and his career as a mayface

(02:00:15):
was starting to decline of it then, and he recognized it,
and he was smart enough to go the only thing
to do is turned this is And it was the
perfect time.

Speaker 3 (02:00:23):
And plus see, we were New York guys, me and keV,
and we just.

Speaker 4 (02:00:27):
As far as the people knew, we worked for Vince
and there's no more identifiable New York guy than Hulk.
So it was like, holy fuck, Vinc sent those guys.
We know Hulk Evins from way back. Those fuckers are
going to take over Atlanta. That was the storyliner, and
it was Eric's idea and Hulk agreed to do it,

(02:00:48):
and it was Kev's finish that we did that night
and it worked, and man, it was a happy feeling
because I remember the night before, I remember that Sunday
that I was in the garden, I put over in
the middle, triple h over in the middle with the
finish that pat Patterson gave us.

Speaker 3 (02:01:03):
That was so sweet.

Speaker 4 (02:01:06):
And I beat him like a job guy, Like I
went down and ring and did my chotch, I took
my stuff off.

Speaker 3 (02:01:11):
He chummed me from.

Speaker 4 (02:01:12):
Behind, knocked me to the floor, choking with stuff in
the aishway, and people were thinking, and people in the alhways,
who you know, the fans in the garden are half smart.
Like when I started to walk out, half of them
were going, please don't go, Please don't go. And I'm
gonna lay in an ayhway and he's choking me with
the cord and stuff, and people are going, look how

(02:01:32):
they treat you, Razor. After everything you've done, Look how
they treat you.

Speaker 3 (02:01:36):
Go to Atlanta. Take the money, man.

Speaker 4 (02:01:38):
We don't blame you fans in the eyeway, because in
the garden, the same people sit in the same seats
every time. It's a really hip, sophisticated audience. So and
the thing is, if Patterson tells me, then you know,
because a lot of people are going, we'll see Razor man.
He ain't doing a job in the garden, no way,
because people don't do that now when you're not, when
you're going for millions of dollars to the rival company,

(02:02:00):
why would you do a job that's unheard.

Speaker 3 (02:02:02):
No one knows that.

Speaker 4 (02:02:04):
But I want to do business because I want to
work for Vents again someday, and I wanted the people
in the garden to get their money's worth. So what
we did was Pat said lay there, and so then
I'm laying there, just dead in the Aishleway. Triple As
gets on the phone. He's still doing the rich guy
thing in the bend, you know, right, and he goes

(02:02:25):
so basically, I'm won't go off.

Speaker 3 (02:02:27):
Wherever it is you're going. We don't need you here anyway.

Speaker 4 (02:02:29):
And all of a sudden they starting ray, sir ray,
and I get up and pull that shit off and
hit the ring and start bouncing him around like a
job guy. I mean he's feeding bam bam, bam bam.
I hit him with the sack of shit. I give
him the career in her that's it, and people are
going he's not leaving Pat, this is past finished. I

(02:02:50):
pick him up like this for my finish baby. Early
referee walks around behind. I pick them up like this
triple a IS's feet hit baby earl head, he goes down.
I hit him with my finish, but and Vince's rings
were big enough that baby Earl goes to this corner
and I dropped triplation in the far corner where I
can cover him.

Speaker 3 (02:03:09):
And it's like, come on.

Speaker 4 (02:03:10):
I turned around, walk over, get up or he'll kick
him in the ass. Turn back around, boom, pedigree one
two three, And it was what And I did a
job and it was one of the best matches in
my career.

Speaker 2 (02:03:20):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (02:03:21):
And when so I lay there forever, so it's over.
Did I stand up?

Speaker 4 (02:03:27):
You know?

Speaker 3 (02:03:27):
I look at the people and they start going, you
sold down, you sold down, you sold down. I remember
too when I was walking to the ring and they're going,
please don't go.

Speaker 4 (02:03:38):
I stopped midway in the aisle and Vince always stands
outside the curtain in the garden. I turned around and
I went like this appointed Vince, and I paid him
on you tell him give me the money. I'll stay
right here, because I would have if he'd have come
to me and said, raise, I'll mask their offer.

Speaker 3 (02:03:54):
I want you to stay here. I had to stay.

Speaker 4 (02:03:57):
And so after the match too, you know, I did
the thing they're going you saw that, I'm looking and
going hey, and I used to always do. I picked
up the mic and I went say goodbye to the
that and everybody in the garden.

Speaker 3 (02:04:11):
Said it with me.

Speaker 4 (02:04:12):
It was It was one of the most magic moments
of my career. I went say because he always was
saying say oh, I said saying.

Speaker 3 (02:04:17):
Goodbye to the bank. It was like thank you.

Speaker 4 (02:04:21):
And then later Sean, I mean kept put Sean over
to cage. It was Sean's idea for me to come out,
Hunter to come out, and then that turned into a
big scandal. You know. Yeah, it was a magic night
and then followed by a magic night. The next night
of my career was like I was in Wrestling Head.

Speaker 2 (02:04:43):
What happened between you and Jerry Saggs and w CW
in a matchup.

Speaker 4 (02:04:48):
Well, one of the things that happened it started to
out the grief was keV and I got paid real
well when we came in and a lot of guys
were there took pay cuts and not because of us,
and we didn't know anything about it, but some guys
were making like three hundred fifty grand a year, and
they came to and they weren't working. Back then, they
din't even run house shows because they couldn't they couldn't draw,

(02:05:11):
and so they said, we can't give you three fifty,
but we'll give you three hundred. So a lot of
guys agreed to it. Apparently the Nasty Boys agreed to
take a pay cut. And when they bitched about it.
By the way I heard it was Terry chose. We
had a haul of nash getting all the bundy, so
right away we got some heat, right and we get
heat anyway.

Speaker 3 (02:05:30):
It's just I get heat anyway. I don't care, you know,
I like it, you know.

Speaker 4 (02:05:36):
But so we're heat seeking because we're obnoxiously happy, you
know we are. We're walking around smiling and laughing because
we getting paid and we don't care. Who knows him,
and so what happened was, and I've known him forever,
I knew when they broke into Brad Ragan's camp in Minneapolis,
and I consider them good friends and I still do.

(02:05:56):
But it was what happened was when we were told
hit the ring. We're somewhere and they're wrestling some Mexican wrestlers,
and me and Kevin are supposed to hit the ring
and lay him out with chairs. So I always go
first because I'm faster than keV. So I slide in
with the chair. I straddled one of the Mexican guys
who was down, and I waffled sacks with a chair.

Speaker 3 (02:06:17):
And when I h swing a chair, I swim it.

Speaker 4 (02:06:21):
To me. It's like, don't ask me to hit you
with a gimmick because I'm gonna hitch you. I'd rather
not do it, or I'm gonna do it, and I'll
take it the same way.

Speaker 3 (02:06:28):
I don't. I don't do that, I said it. So
I hit him.

Speaker 4 (02:06:32):
I didn't know that i'd potato him. He rolled out
of the ring and he had his back like this,
and I thought he was feeding me. I almost hit
him again from inside the ring to the forks. I
thought he wanted another one because before we went out
and I was, let make sure you lay it in la.
So what happened was now he comes back and he's
got a big goose egg on his head, and as

(02:06:54):
he's like turning the corner and I'm sitting there talking
to Ken, and I said.

Speaker 3 (02:06:58):
Oh, Kevin, man, I said, I potato SAgs.

Speaker 4 (02:07:00):
Man. I said, I am so happy because I guess
he was delirious and I thought he was feeding me
for a second one. But I didn't do it, and
I said, man, I am so happy I didn't hit
him again. I said, almost hit him again. I was
kind of doing a nervous laugh. And at that moment,
SAgs turned the corner with a big goose aging and
he sees me and keV going out, and he's thinking,

(02:07:21):
they're taking my money now, they're taking the liberties with me.
They got potato me on purpose, and he thinks it's funny.
This is the way I perceived that he perceived it
because I've.

Speaker 3 (02:07:31):
Known him a long time. And so then now we're
in some other town.

Speaker 4 (02:07:36):
We're in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, stuff like that, and it's
ming and barbarian nasty boys and me and keV and
like one of those cluster six men to mean three
tag team deals and the finishes kid who'd wrestled earlier,
are supposed to run down, throw us a gimmick.

Speaker 3 (02:07:55):
We're supposed to knock everybody out.

Speaker 4 (02:07:56):
And keep the belts. Now, kid got injured, so he
doesn't come down out. So now it's time to go home,
and there's no kid, so we're going, what is going on?

Speaker 1 (02:08:04):
Now?

Speaker 4 (02:08:04):
It's really getting out of control. So the nasty boys
start throwing furniture in the ring, so they throw SAgs
goes stomping down the steps. Those are plastic chair in
the ring. Gome stomping back on the steps down. I
pick up the chair.

Speaker 3 (02:08:18):
You threw it in a ring yet, dummy, So I
pick it up.

Speaker 4 (02:08:21):
He comes walking in, looks right at me. I got
the chair like this, and I did like like Saboo does,
like Kevin Salomon does. It's a plastic chair. He's looking
right at me. I think he's paying attention. So I
pushed the chair at him like that and it hits
them and it rattles when people go oh. By this time,
now Ming is hitting me, you know, because we're the
heels and now there are the other two teams are

(02:08:42):
like mayface.

Speaker 3 (02:08:42):
So Ming hit me with working shots and SAgs is
drilling me with live rounds.

Speaker 2 (02:08:48):
But see he's stiff.

Speaker 3 (02:08:49):
Anyway, so I don't really think anything of it.

Speaker 4 (02:08:51):
He's like bama, go whoa, and then Ming sent me
the working thing and then bam, I'm go, man, wow,
finally look at him, and I realized he's raging. He's mad,
He's seriously mad. So I just pushed him away, like,
what's your problem. He knocked my tooth out and even
lost a tooth. Man. He knocked it out into a
fifth row, and it punctured my cheek and you know,

(02:09:11):
your mouth is so filled back to here that my
face was like this and instantly, so I turned back around.
You know, now, blah blah blah, it's over. You know,
they finally get them out of the ring. I'm standing
at me and keV got the scraps or stayed out.
I turned around to Kevin. Kev's my face all messed up.
He goes, what the F and I said, his SAgs man.
keV goes marches back in the locker and picks up

(02:09:34):
Stink's baseball bat, and he goes say the word he's dead.
And I said, keV, he thinks he's right, man, he
thinks he's right because he thought that I was doing that.
I was taking liberties with him again because keV was
gonna kill him. keV walked in there and just swung
the baseball back right above his head and said, you

(02:09:55):
want to find out who's got stroke around here?

Speaker 3 (02:09:57):
You mother first, and you know, so I go to
the hotel.

Speaker 4 (02:10:02):
We're all gonna go out party bat Rouge that night
because this is a sweet little party town. All the
Mexican boys bravery, steal on, Hoovie and Cone. And they
all come my room with keV and I'm.

Speaker 3 (02:10:11):
Sitting there with this.

Speaker 4 (02:10:12):
My face was swor and I can't laugh as it hurts,
and they'll go, come on, let's go out, and and skew,
you ain't going anywhere like this, you know, you know,
And they so Bischoff called my room that night and
he goes, hey, go hear what happened?

Speaker 3 (02:10:25):
You know, my gud. He goes, you know, he's fired.
He's fired. I'll Fireston. I said, I'll fire him.

Speaker 2 (02:10:30):
I've known twenty years.

Speaker 3 (02:10:32):
So he's got kids.

Speaker 4 (02:10:34):
I said, I don't want to work with him anymore,
but I saidill fire him. And you know that was
and I think what happened was he ended up sitting
at home for a long time and he got paid.
And I mean I've seen him since then, you know,
and it was just it was it's just something to happened,
you know, It wasn't I didn't intend for that to
happen to him, and he intended to hurt me, which

(02:10:54):
is wrong. I mean, the way I look at it is,
if you had a problem with me, you should have
took it. You should have me in the locker room.
Don't don't hit me with live rounds in the ring
when I'm giving you my body. I mean, I'm leaning
my face out there, and he's hitting me with everything
he has. And when you're supposed to be that man
like you can lift their car off a baby and
stuff one thing, I'm proud of. This dude's hitting me
with everything he got and he can't even knock me out.

(02:11:18):
But that's what happened.

Speaker 1 (02:11:20):
Did Roddy Piper trying to go after you guys and
try and fight you guys after a match one night? No, No,
because there was a story that Piper went in the
locker room and had words with you guys.

Speaker 4 (02:11:32):
And the first time I remember Piper was it was
around it it was prior to it was right before
Christmas one year. We were making George doing to Nitro
and we fed Piper all night long, even when we
went off the air. Mean kid just kept feeding himntil
he blew up, and then we rolled back out and
I left at the kid, you want to do it
some more, and we went, well it is roddy Piper.

(02:11:54):
We went back in there, just big, big, big thing,
just making him because it was like cross Roddy Piper.

Speaker 3 (02:11:58):
Yeah. The only heat I remember and with Piper was.

Speaker 4 (02:12:02):
Hawk saw me and Kep doing jobs for everybody all
the time and it not hurting us like we'd do
jobs for guys.

Speaker 3 (02:12:11):
Then we'd lie about it. We got to beat his
ass and we know he didn't you lost, because I
learned that from Kevin Sullivan.

Speaker 4 (02:12:16):
He would lose and then he'd say no I beat him,
and I'd be sitting home like a Marco, No you didn't.
So that's what I learned is heels live like you lose.
Put the guy over there, lie about it. So Haulk
saws doing that. So we talked Halk, who doesn't do jobs,
into letting Piper beat him at Star Kate in Nashville
with a sleeper. So Pulk put Piper over. He was

(02:12:39):
so exciting and we got in limvel of that night
go back to the hotel that he couldn't stop he was.
He was so excited it made me feel great to
see Halk that happy because he did a job and
he was happy, you know, and we were going, yeah
see in fun. It didn't even matter. Man, Like, we're
still the shit we lost it. Could you hear the people?
Like we put Piper over? Man?

Speaker 3 (02:12:57):
Do you hear the people? Because if we put him on,
what do you do with d Q or something?

Speaker 4 (02:13:01):
No, man, we're doing the old Pat Patterson Kurt hitting
click idea. You're gonna make the guy, make him man,
he's gonna beat you take his finish, not some schoolboy
or small packs. But no, man, let it beat you
with his finish. So the only remember friction I had
was when it came time for Piper to put Savage
over in San Francisco a super Bowl one time they

(02:13:24):
had to do the you know, he wouldn't he wouldn't
take the elbow drop. You know, he had to get
hit with the tape, you know, the brass tape, the
brass taped knuckles. And I remember standing in the I
was being hawker, standing in a hotel bar and Piper
and Bishoppers standing at another little table, and I was buzzing,
and I was pissed off, and I fucked with Piper

(02:13:47):
all night. I said, Piper, I said, what's that tape do?
And I was to give you a rash or something.
I said, you're too fucking much. I said, Hawk puts
you over, and you won't put Savage over. I said,
I used to respect you. I said, I think you're
a your bron me. I said, I can't believe you, man.

Speaker 3 (02:14:02):
What is it real?

Speaker 4 (02:14:03):
When are we too close to Portland? I mean, I
just went on and on and on, and then one
thing I remember was bishoff looking and he stop and
uh and and hug and tell me, lady goes wow. Brother,
no one's ever stuck up for me before, you know,
because Hank was always a man, so no one's ever

(02:14:24):
watching his back, you know. I said, you know Hawk
does a job for you, you won't do a job
for Savage. I said, I don't get it, man, I said,
what makes you so special? You know?

Speaker 3 (02:14:36):
I just totally I don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:14:39):
I remember going into that angle. They did a thing
that were Pipers stayed in Alcatraz for a week because
the paper he was in San Francisco to cow Palace,
and I said, I said, wow, you must have been
a real popular Alcatraz I said, bet, you got a
lot of candy bars and cigarettes.

Speaker 3 (02:14:54):
You're queer. I just, I just, I really, that's the only.

Speaker 4 (02:14:59):
Thing I can remember about Roddy being pissed off. But
we that blew over because he knew he was wrong.
But I don't remember him ever coming after us, because
if he had come after us, he got his ass kicked.

Speaker 1 (02:15:10):
Do you think that the horseman took me too seriously?
When they got all upset about.

Speaker 3 (02:15:13):
That, he did.

Speaker 4 (02:15:17):
Well, yes, particularly Arn, because Iron got real mad. He said, oh,
my wife told me, you guys maybe look like otis
of town drum.

Speaker 3 (02:15:25):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (02:15:26):
The thing is, keV got that cooler that he used
for the prop out of Arn's rental car. He had
pee wee, the referee who travels with Iron and Flair's
they're drinking body, get it out of the car. Arn
is bitching in the hotel lobby. Barn, I respect Arm,
but this is the truth. He's in the bar bitching
about it with two beer with a beer in each hand,

(02:15:47):
because that's how we do it. Because by the time
you get to the hotel bar after the show, it's
going to close, so you've got to order. You know,
she can't bring you beers fast enough, so you ordered
two at a time, because you know, by.

Speaker 3 (02:15:58):
The time she walked back, you bought pounded that one.

Speaker 1 (02:16:01):
You know.

Speaker 3 (02:16:01):
So I just thought.

Speaker 4 (02:16:05):
It's a skit, man, it's a parody. It's it's a joke,
Like what if I don't know to see then again,
maybe you know, maybe my feels would have got hurt.

Speaker 3 (02:16:14):
I kind of doubt it. I mean, they had Bischoff
had me. He said, I gotta ad you.

Speaker 4 (02:16:19):
What we're gonna do is you're gonna be drunk on TV,
you know, because you know it was it was my
personal I said, we're gonna do it on TV.

Speaker 3 (02:16:26):
I said, I think it's a poor taste. But you're
the boss, you know.

Speaker 2 (02:16:31):
Does does it bother you that that so many people
know that, that that your struggles are so public that
you know, people printing them in newsletters. You know, it's
acknowledged on on television where some other guys you never know.

Speaker 4 (02:16:49):
I never really was keeping a secret myself. I thought
it was I thought it was a bad idea for
Eric to do it as part of an angle, and
the higher up, some turner made him stop after certain
about time. It doesn't you know, I'm proud of my behavior,
but I'm not, you know. I mean, I'm ashamed of
some of the things I've done. I'm ashamed I heard

(02:17:10):
some people's feelings who didn't need their feelings hurt. But
you know, I try to look at something positive out
of it. And if maybe there's one kid out there
who goes, wow, man, you know, maybe Scott Oliver, you know,
and he said, man when he did the shoot interview
of Fine Steam video. Man, he said, you know, you know,

(02:17:32):
drinking and the answer, you know, maybe drinking and drugs.
You know, I ain't can lie to his fun.

Speaker 3 (02:17:36):
But you know, and it ain't. It ain't them, It
ain't the answer. So I don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:17:40):
I mean, I never really trying to keep a secret.
I mean, let's see, you know I did the same
all these years later. I don't I don't have a computer.
I don't read the dirt sheets. I don't really care
what people think. I care what the fans who pay money.
I care what they think by their cheering or booing.
I care with the people pay anything. I care what

(02:18:01):
people say to me when they interact with me in
the grocery store at the airport. I don't care what
a bunch of dudes sitting around they can't get laid
think and they're writing we had a two star match
and then I don't care about the Internet marks think
about me.

Speaker 2 (02:18:16):
Yeah, it did become frustrating you, especially since it was
your baby.

Speaker 1 (02:18:20):
When the nWo kept expanding and everybody was in the
NWL yes and no.

Speaker 3 (02:18:26):
See. Part of the problem was.

Speaker 4 (02:18:31):
Hulk only made TV and pay per views if Kevin
and I made every house show and TVs and pay perviews.
And we were in the impression that the nWo was
going to be separate and that we were going to
get the Saturday show. They used to have a Saturday
show on TVs. We thought we were going to get
the Saturday show and it was going to be the nWo,
and that me and Kevin we're gonna get the running

(02:18:51):
and with Hulk, and you know, I learned some of
the behind the scenes stuff and really make it cool
doing black and white like we used to do empty
arena videos and crazy stuff. And we wanted because our
idea was to make the fans decide do you like
the nWo, do you like w CW, Instead of going
do you like w CW? Do you like WWF, we
were going to try to make the mark and the

(02:19:12):
fans choose between really one brand, you know, two brands,
but one company. And but really we part of that
was our fall because the one thing about having more
dudes in the nwos that means we didn't have to
make every town, you know, we didn't have to go
to Little Rock and soon fall. We just went to

(02:19:32):
the big towns and let the other dudes go to
the other towns. But it did water it down.

Speaker 1 (02:19:37):
Do you think that WCW whoever was booking at the time,
mishandled Brett when he came into ww.

Speaker 3 (02:19:45):
I was just talking to.

Speaker 4 (02:19:46):
Somebody about that just yesterday. Actually, see it will help
the respect to Brett. His strong suitent is is wrestling.
He's not that good on a stick. He's not that
good on the microphone. And everything we did was live TV,
So when he worked for events, a lot of his
stuff was taped interviews where they could do several tapes

(02:20:07):
and get it the way they wanted it, or they
could feed lines to him or whatever. See, a lot
of stuff we did was live and some of the
guys were real good on the stick. And if you
weren't too bad for you. We'd bury you because it's
a cut thot thing and if you don't remember, we'll
remind you. So Brett came into already a well oiled machine,

(02:20:30):
and he kind of didn't fit it. See the thing
is too the reps made an offer a year earlier
to come in, and he didn't want it. And then
he came in later and he didn't have the impact
that he would have had he come earlier, and.

Speaker 3 (02:20:45):
He just didn't fit.

Speaker 4 (02:20:46):
I think the thing that hurt him the most was
that his microphone skills, you know, because we'd almost turned
Nito into into comedy. I mean then we barely wrestled.
We'd opened the show with some comedy, and then we
do some run ins and then usually me or keV
or somebody who wrestle at the end of the night.

Speaker 3 (02:21:05):
But I don't know, I don't think anybody miss handled Brett.
I just think.

Speaker 4 (02:21:11):
I don't think you can blame the management for somebody
not getting over. I mean, breaths been around a long time.
He should know how to get over. He can't blame
Bischoff because Bread didn't get over.

Speaker 2 (02:21:21):
Do you think they pulled the plug on Bischoff too?

Speaker 1 (02:21:23):
Quick when they were replacing him with Russo and for
our Yes, yeah, what are your thoughts on Russo?

Speaker 3 (02:21:30):
No comment? Okay. I think he's a great, nice guy,
smart guy and everything. I think that he.

Speaker 4 (02:21:39):
Was a small cog and a big machine when he
was successful events. I don't know how he's doing a
TNA or anything. I don't really follow that. He's a
nice person, you know, I've never really done a lot
of business with him.

Speaker 2 (02:21:50):
Yeah, how did it come out? How did it come
about when you were finally released or you left WSW.

Speaker 3 (02:21:58):
I think it was the Faithful German trip. I was
dating a girl, Emily Sherman.

Speaker 4 (02:22:04):
Her uncles, Brad Siegel, is a president of TNT, and
I knew Brad and his family and stuff. And Emily's
is a real sweetheart, a real pretty girl. We were
dating and she was part of the year of the
International thing. So we were in Germany and I was
at the bar, and I went to high school in Germany,

(02:22:26):
and I traveled to Germany a lot for events, and
you know, I had a lot of German fans, a
lot of German girlfriends. And this girl that I knew
was in the bar talk to me and Emily was
there talking to me, and Emmi and I had kind
of decided that, you know, we were not going to
see each other anymore or whatever. And so I was
talking to this other girl, and the girl wanted to
give me a gift and I have it at home.

(02:22:47):
She made a doll at me, like out of a
sock puppet like thing. It was kind of cool.

Speaker 3 (02:22:52):
I still have, you know, this chip wanted to give
to me, but she wanted to give to me in
front of everybody in the bar. She's embarrassed.

Speaker 4 (02:22:57):
So we went up to my room and Emily used
her authority as a w CW representative to get a
key to my room and come in my room unauthorized.

Speaker 3 (02:23:08):
So then she came in. I'm there with the girl.
Nothing's going on.

Speaker 4 (02:23:11):
The girl's handing me a gift, but Emily blows up
and food fight ensues, and I'm you know, drunk, and
so by the time and we're up all night. Now
we've got to go to the airport and fly out.
And now Emily and I are still bickering and stuff
in the airport, and you know, when you're on an
international flight, you can't be real loud and stuff in

(02:23:33):
the airport because in Germany the guys walk around with
machine guns in the airport, you know security. So there's
bickering and loud talk going on to Emily and I,
and so they come to me and say, you know,
you can't come on a play because it's you know,
I'm going to just lean me alone.

Speaker 3 (02:23:48):
Please leave me alone, with me alone, let me alone, okay,
blah blah blah.

Speaker 4 (02:23:52):
And I'm sure a lot of you know I'm not
saying I'm sure if all, I've certainly had my share
of it. But a big argument is sue they wouldn't
let me on the plane. So I just went back
to the hotel and flew home the next day or whatever.
But that was the start of the end for me.

Speaker 3 (02:24:08):
In w C dews just.

Speaker 1 (02:24:10):
Now one time when you were going I don't know
how closely followed it, but they teased that you were
coming back, and they did a couple of angles and
then Goldberg like went on TV and took what was
supposed to be a contract with your name on it
and ripped it up.

Speaker 2 (02:24:25):
Were there plans for you to come back.

Speaker 3 (02:24:27):
Or I don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:24:28):
I don't remember hearing anything about Goldber doing something like that.
I know Goldbert didn't like me. I don't understand why
I helped him a little lot his first road trip.

Speaker 3 (02:24:36):
I helped.

Speaker 4 (02:24:37):
I said, ride with me, I get free cards, I
get free rooms. And he wasn't anybody that he was
just starting out, but I introduced him to Barry Bloom,
who ended up, you know, helping him get really lucrative contract.
But I don't remember anything about that, like when I
barely watched the show even when I was on it,
you know. So I had a lot of stuff going

(02:24:59):
on outside of wrestling, and wrestling was released for me,
Like I enjoyed performing when I was there in the
ring and stuff like that, but I had other distractions
outside of it, so I really didn't even follow what
was going especially if it wasn't me or my.

Speaker 3 (02:25:15):
Buddies, Like I didn't really follow what Goldberg did?

Speaker 4 (02:25:18):
You know?

Speaker 3 (02:25:18):
So I don't. I don't even know what it's talking about.

Speaker 2 (02:25:20):
Yeah, did you did?

Speaker 1 (02:25:21):
You always have a plan kind of in the back
of your head that once you got stuff situated, you
would go back to WSW.

Speaker 3 (02:25:28):
I don't know. I never went back there, did it.

Speaker 4 (02:25:30):
No? No, I've been really blessed that, you know, I
came from humble beginnings and I was able to save
my money and then you know, I saved money from
Razor and then you know, ww was really good to me,
and I saved money there, and I made some investments
and not all good. I got some property, and you know,
I had good advice. And my goal was to just

(02:25:53):
retire early and sit at home and you know, just
do nothing. And I did that for a long time,
and just recently, I mean it's been just five six
weeks ago, I realized that the sitting at home thing
is not good for me. It's it's get too much
time in my hands. I get in trouble, I get bored,
I do stupid things. So I just started recently wrestling

(02:26:14):
again in Puerto Rico, and I'm wrestling for the WWC
down there, World Wrestling Council, Carls Club's company I worked
for years and years ago, and I'm there champion now
and working down area a couple times a month and
really enjoying it, getting back in shape a little bit.
You know. I worked there this is that, this autograph
thing here this past weekend, and wrestled for the Clown

(02:26:37):
Posse the other day. And I'm gonna do some business
with them, and my goal is to get back in shape,
and I like to go to Japan and then decide
if I want to work in the US or not,
because I believe that I have another run left and
I don't believe in burn bridges. I know that despite
what my personal flaws or defects may have been in

(02:26:58):
the wrestling business, I still know that as far as
my work was concerned, there was never a problem with it.
You know, my behavior outside of the ring that sometimes
it was certainly unacceptable, but my work was always, you know,
what it was supposed to be. So I believe that
I could work wherever I want, you know, as always
I you know, a gentleman. So that's where I'm at now. Man,

(02:27:22):
stay tuned.

Speaker 1 (02:27:23):
No, you came back to the w you know, with
Kevin and Hulk is the NDW. How did that whole
thing come about? Who kind of pitched that?

Speaker 4 (02:27:32):
keV went to Connecticut and visited with Vince and you
know he you know, that's that's what Kevin's business. And
you know, of course Vince and Hulk have had a
long relationship. And one time I'm sitting on my phone
raised call on us to Stanford Connect and so I
picked it up and he goes, mister mom, how you doing?
So I said who, I said, who does such a

(02:27:54):
good events and personation? He goes, hey, bad guy Sky,
how you doing? That's I'm doing good? Man? Are you
a great Well, you know, I'll come to the point.
You know, I've been talking to Big keV and you
know I was talking about come back to work. I said,
that's great, man, I said, keV will do great for you. Man,
he's a big start. You'll make a lot of money
with keV. Well, you know I'm talking to the Halkster too.

(02:28:15):
I said, Well, I mean Hawks track records proven. You know,
he's gold mine man. I said, yeah, it sounds good
for them. That sounds great. Anyway, Well, you know, you
know what about you, big guy? You know, hey, you
know we need you there and so well, Vince, you know,
I'm raising my kids by myself, and you know, I

(02:28:36):
don't know, man. He goes, what don't you think we
can work some out? I said, well, if we both
want to, I know we can. So, you know, we
worked out a structured deal that was I was only
supposed to work ten days a month. Of course, the
first month, I worked twenty two days, which was a problem,
but you know, I thought, well I'll do this because
you know it's gonna solve, gonna smooth own, it's gonna

(02:28:58):
be fine, but it.

Speaker 3 (02:29:01):
Would haulk Kevin.

Speaker 4 (02:29:03):
I talked before we went there, and we said, do
you really think Vince is going to push something that
he didn't create? Do you think Vince is going to
push the nWo? Because if he does, that's a minting air.
Bishoff is smarter than him and he's not gonna admit that.

Speaker 3 (02:29:16):
And we were right.

Speaker 4 (02:29:17):
He could have made tons he made money with it.
He could have been made, He could have made tons
of money with it, but he chose not to. He
killed it off at the first pay per view. So,
and I wasn't having fun and I had problem. You know,
I didn't have anyone to stare at my children, and
I wasn't having fun. I wasn't having good matches, and

(02:29:38):
I cracked and just it's self disjuncted. I just talked
to Ross Rossell, Well, we need to talk about what's
going on. I said, how about you know, I'm done,
how about Rossa? We need to talk about you know,
what's going on? I said, how about I'm done yesterday
and I could be in Japan tomorrow if I want.
He said, well, that's the way you want to say. Yeah,
let's just end it like this before it's worse because

(02:30:01):
I was ready.

Speaker 1 (02:30:02):
To crack when the three of you guys appeared on
TV together for the first time at the paper Men
the promo, did you and Kevin kind of realize that
it wasn't gonna work.

Speaker 2 (02:30:14):
With Hogan as a heal because he was so overs
as a baby.

Speaker 4 (02:30:17):
Face, which time when we went to New York back, Yes, yeah, yeah,
it was different then because well it was cool because
hadn't had it been done the way that we would
have dreamed have been done, Vince stuff stuff way better.
You know, he's stuff. He just Vince could have made
the nWo even bigger, but he chose not to. But

(02:30:43):
it just, I mean, like the stuff we did were
like when we got to the Rock in Chicago, you know,
you know, we beat him up then we smashed it,
damble and stuff. That's what Vince stuff stuff Like Hollywood,
we were all going, whoa, this is cool. That's about
the last time we did anything, you know, I mean,
I got the we did a few things leading into

(02:31:04):
the pay per view. We were told weeks in advance
the Hawk was gonna put Rock over, I was gonna
beat Austin. Then a day or two before the pay
view in Toronto, Vince calls me in for meeting. Change
the finish. So I remember going, what, yeah, okay, no problem,

(02:31:28):
you know these other words? What why did you call
me wasting my time? Yeah, you don't want to do business.
In other words, you're a mark, you know.

Speaker 3 (02:31:38):
I don't know. I felt that I had been lying
to and I.

Speaker 4 (02:31:42):
Just wanted to out there.

Speaker 3 (02:31:43):
I was happy.

Speaker 4 (02:31:43):
I even made it to WrestleMania, and I told him,
I told I called Vince one time, said maybe you
better put Kevi in the ring with Austin. Let me
stand on the outside, and said I am a very
good match. But you know, I just I was an
unhappy experience.

Speaker 2 (02:31:59):
Why you think the chemistry wasn't there between you and Austin.

Speaker 3 (02:32:03):
It got better, it got a little better.

Speaker 4 (02:32:06):
It just I don't know.

Speaker 3 (02:32:08):
It's just like.

Speaker 4 (02:32:10):
I didn't have my best matches with Steve, and I'm
sure Steve didn't have his best matches with me. You know,
some people he clipped with, some people he just doesn't
click with it. I'm not blaming Steve at all. He's
a super talented guys super interview. It just I don't know,
just just I would have liked to have seen cav
work with him and me on the outside and seen
it what they could have done. But I thought the

(02:32:33):
matter we had a manie was was okay, and it
was it was.

Speaker 3 (02:32:37):
I laid it out. I called Vince and send me
tapes of Austin.

Speaker 4 (02:32:41):
Let me see how he works with big shows, because
he starts with it's comeback and you know, I don't know,
this is what it was.

Speaker 3 (02:32:47):
I'm not knocking.

Speaker 4 (02:32:48):
I don't mean to knock Steve Austin at all. He's
just major superstarup business. I enjoyed doing business with him
on his hands on and paid for it. It just
like I said, I didn't have my best match with Steve.
I'm sure Steve would tell you he and have the
best matching for me personally. He treated me like gold.

Speaker 2 (02:33:06):
How about TNA, He did a he did some business
with them early on.

Speaker 3 (02:33:11):
Yeah, I was on their first show.

Speaker 2 (02:33:12):
Yeah that's right, that's right, And you were like the
big deal on the first show too. So surprised I'm
surprised that that that that it was such a short run.

Speaker 4 (02:33:21):
I was signed a like a I think a three
appearance deal or whatever. Just kept that rolling over the
fit that I want to be there because I didn't
know if it was going to be Jojo or good.
You know, so you don't want to be locked into something,
you know.

Speaker 1 (02:33:35):
Yeah, when uh, when Hunter and Sean brought the X
back the last time around, there are all kinds of rumors.

Speaker 2 (02:33:42):
That you and Joan Watman We're going to go and
do a feud with them.

Speaker 4 (02:33:46):
Was there any truth to that? Well, it was going
to be keV too. I mean there to me, just
what the people wanted. There's nobody could have matched up
with the X. It's if if people want to do
business and make money. Of course, that era is all
the winning opportunity passed, at least for now, you know.
For then they say it couldn't happen in WrestleMania coming

(02:34:09):
up in my own down, but you know, because too,
it's the click you got. Then you have some guys
who all think to say and to me kids the
wildcard because he was the only person who was in
DX and nWo. So you have me and keV versus
you have NW versus d X and kids the wild card.

(02:34:30):
I don't know which side he's gonna go on to me,
that'd be some interesting stuff and I and besides it
being a cool angle, then we're gonna deliver because the
match is gonna be out of this world because you
gonna have four guys who already wrestled each other a
million times and we're gonna rocket.

Speaker 3 (02:34:47):
And it could have been it could have been magic,
but didn't happen.

Speaker 1 (02:34:52):
What are your thoughts on you know, what happened recently,
you know the tragy you know involving crisp bin Wan,
the media coverage that wrestling has been getting over the
last month or so.

Speaker 4 (02:35:04):
I mean, not again, nobody knows what happened with you know,
with Chris and Nancy and Daniel, and it's you know,
it's tragedy and died in Chris a long time.

Speaker 3 (02:35:17):
I mean, as to excuse me, I just think that.

Speaker 1 (02:35:28):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (02:35:31):
Because this guy from HBO Sports called me.

Speaker 4 (02:35:33):
Real Sports is Brian Gumble, the producer called me and
asked me, uh, you know, since the thing happened with Chris,
you know, if I want to call it.

Speaker 3 (02:35:47):
On you know, the rest of your drugs and stuff
and excuse me. I just thought that smart position is
no one ever made me take drugs, no one ever

(02:36:08):
made me drink. You know, I chose to.

Speaker 4 (02:36:12):
It's not Vince's fault what happened with Chris, It's not
Vince's fault, what happened with all these guys who have died.
I think it's ridiculous for the media to attack wrestling
promoters for what the independent contractors do. What I told
the guys tod hb honest, I guy from Inside Addition
asked me yesterday what our contacts have been talking about it.

(02:36:35):
My position is, once you focus on all the wrestlers
who have been in the industry, had their dreams come true,
got money in the bank, on houses, got families, because
way more guys have wrestled and are alive than have
wrestled in are dead.

Speaker 3 (02:36:51):
But the focus is on the death, and I think
it's kind of silly.

Speaker 4 (02:36:54):
It's like you've heard about that crazy astronaut cheer who drove,
you know, for drove from Access to Worlando in a diaper.
All that does that mean it's NASA's fault that she's crazy? No,
you know this is the NFL's fault that Pac Man
got in trouble or that Michael Vick got in trouble.
This is the NFL's fault. No, So how could it

(02:37:17):
be Vince's fault that guys make personal choices? I think
it's ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (02:37:22):
You know, you know a lot of guys have put
books out of the last couple of years, and I
mean with all the stories you have, I mean I
still have, you know, half of you know, half the
questions I didn't even get to.

Speaker 2 (02:37:36):
Is a book something you've ever thought about doing?

Speaker 4 (02:37:39):
My little brother's always when we brought writing a books
that's have I'm good man sees I can figure out.

Speaker 3 (02:37:43):
That happy and.

Speaker 1 (02:37:46):
Wow, you've been doing some conventions lately and you've had
a chance to meet some of your fans, and it's
great for the fans to get real up close and
personal to you know, one of the biggest stars, you know,
in the history of the business. Do you like the
on these conventions that actually you said like, I've been
doing them.

Speaker 4 (02:38:02):
I think this this one of this weekend was like
the third autograph thing I have ever done in twenty
three years.

Speaker 3 (02:38:08):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (02:38:10):
I only did it because you know, Kevin Kidd were
going to be there, and I feel a little bit
weird charging people for autographs, you know, But I mean
it was a big structure thing, so I didn't feel
so weird, but I didn't like the way it was handled.
I thought the fans got ripped off. But I do
like interacting with the fans, and you know, it's it's

(02:38:31):
really cool to meet people who are like you, guys
you know, who are understand the business and and talk
about it, like you know, a profession of what you do,
like you're doing your skill and if your role and
this particular night is to put a guy over, even
though he may have less ability than you, your jobs
to make him look good, or your job is to

(02:38:54):
be the hero. And you know, whatever your role is
and you do it, and you know, you try to
be funny on the microphone it or being on the microphone,
or be entertaining and like display your ability or your.

Speaker 3 (02:39:04):
Lack of ability. You know, that's your job.

Speaker 4 (02:39:06):
And I think that's cool, you know, And I like,
you know, I like interacting with the fans and hearing
what they have to say, because I'd rather hear it
from people who are fans and like I said earlier,
from a bunch of dudes who don't even go to
the matches, consider at home and write letters and criticize guys.
And then again it makes me think of something Elvisidy

(02:39:26):
years ago, Like, you know, there's critics and that's their job,
they criticize. So yeah, I guess as long as they
talk about you spell your name right?

Speaker 2 (02:39:39):
Wow? In closing, Uh there. You know, we always ask
the guys if there's anything they want to say to
their fans.

Speaker 4 (02:39:46):
Gosh, I just like to say anybody who sees us,
you know, thanks for you know, supported Razor Scott off
all these years. And uh yeah, it's been a roller coaster.
I just don't think the rides up. Get it together,
and uh, stay tuned, because I think I got I

(02:40:07):
got one more brother it Titlematchnetwork dot Com.

Speaker 3 (02:40:12):
Yeah,

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