"The Dragon's Fire Steamboat Shoot: Inside Wrestling's Perfect Matches 🐉"

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
They were joined by a true legend in the support
of professional wrestling, none other than Ricky the Dragon's Debo.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Thank you for joining us today for this interview.

Speaker 3 (00:07):
You're welcome.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
I guess my first question would be how you got
started in the wrestling business.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
Actually, how I got started in the wrestling business is
that out of high school and I was attending a
junior college. I wanted to always be a phys ed teacher.
I enjoyed teaching kids and football and wrestling. I did
fairly well at when I was in high school. So

(00:34):
I went to a junior college and I was going
to transfer over to University of Tampa finish out the
second two years junior college being a two year college,
and it was right there in Saint Pete, Florida, and
that's where I grew up well. Right in this transition period,
as I was finishing up the junior college and checking

(00:58):
with my because who does the person that's called like
that does the scheduling anyway, and checking guidance counselor everything.
Checking with that, I found out at that time, just
as I was getting ready to transfer over to Tampa
University that there was like, oh, it could be anywhere

(01:19):
from like a three to five year wait for a
phys ed teacher, the physical education teacher in the state
of Florida. I said, well, why is that? And he
was he was telling me that the main reason is
that we have a lot of Northern coaches visited coaches.
It was that they were coming out of the North
residing and finishing up their teaching career in Florida because

(01:42):
then they would retire. So what is happening is that
a lot of the junior high and high schools in
the state would snatch up a coach that's got fifteen
twenty years experience, okay, coming down from North and coaching football,
coaching wrestling, and maybe maybe the coach is looking for
about four or five years of teaching and then he's
going to retire. He's already he's already in Florida everything.

(02:04):
He's cool. So first at that time for somebody to
come out of college and get a position and teaching
or as the coaching, there was a little bit of
a wait in the state of Florida because all this
was happening. I had a girlfriend at the time that
was that made him move to Minnesota and she was

(02:25):
going to uh be Northwest Orient Airline School. Her roommate
happened to be Donna Gania, Verne Gania's daughter, vern being
the head of a w A. So I guess there's
being a roommate. And through conversation, I was still in Florida.

(02:47):
We were kept in contact back and forth, talking on
the phone, and you know, just through conversation, like, you know,
my girlfriend, we talked to hell, Yeah, what's your dad
do as a promoter? Oh yeah, wrestler. Well, you know
my boyfriend wrestler. He did pretty good at an amateur background.
So just through this back and forth, back and forth,

(03:13):
my girl was invited to Burne's house for dinner one time,
being the donna and her had become friends. So sitting
at the dinner table, you know, Verne sitting there and
he said, I under stand there Burns an old timer
and plus a good collegiate wrestler. I think at one time,
back in the late forties of the early fifties he

(03:35):
was an alternate on the Olympic Wrestling too. So so, yeah, understanding,
boyfriend Wressel's done pretty good. You know this and that.
So he says, with your boyfriend's name, and she said,
Richard Blood and he goes Blood Blood I have heard of,
I've heard of, but he said, believe it or not,

(03:57):
I've heard of your your boyfriend. Which is like a
small world, right, How this all came about During that
time in the business, old time promoters kept in contact
with other old time promoters, and that's allowed a lot
of times they were to exchange talent man by guys.
And Vern was very good friends with Eddie Graham Florida. Yes,

(04:20):
and that's why I went to school in wrestling. So
Eddie at one time had told Vern about me because
I had met Mike Graham. I was in the tenth grade.
I was a sophomore and Mike was a senior in
high school. At the district championships, okay, and I remember

(04:42):
seeing Eddie Graham sitting there at this gymnasium, sitting right there,
front row on those types of fold out bleachers. You know.
He had all bandaged up, you know, and he I
think he just worked coming off a program working with
Boris Malenko and his Russian chain matches, you know, right,
And boyd, I was looking over at him, and I

(05:02):
sort of got intimidated right from the beginner. And then
here I am wrestling my son. His son beat me
on points. I think you beat me by two points,
but I was just I felt good about it because
he was a senior at school and I was a sophomore.
I went on and kept wrestling. It didn't go well
at it, but this is how my name came up
through Eddie Graham was talking to Verne because these two
old timers were real big into amateur wrestlers. If you

(05:26):
had a good amateur background and you want to go
through their camp, you know they would they would welcome you,
I think a lot more than if you were just
a ballroom brawler. They know what kind of price that
you paid to be an amateur wrestler, the training that
you went through, and on and on so and through that,

(05:47):
Verne said, well, you know, I heard I've heard about
Richard Blood down in Florida. He's pretty a good amateur wrestler.
And a girl was said yeah. So she called me
out and was really excited about this. She said, you
can't believe it. This this old time promoter up here
in Minnesota has heard about your amateur background through Eddie
Graham in Florida. So I was kind of in a

(06:08):
transition period. Like I said earlier, whether I was going
to go on to another two years and then do
the waiting waiting list thing with being a phiz ed coach,
and then I just said, well, maybe I'll try my
hand in and pro wrestling. So I said that, she
talked to Verne. Verne said, haven't send me a resume,
and sent a resume, and I got a starting date

(06:29):
and started the wrestling camp there. It's basically how that
all came about.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Who are some of the veterans that really helped you
as far as trained.

Speaker 4 (06:39):
You in the right.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
We're going through Vern's camp on occasion, uh Billy Robinson
would come down and most of the time when he
come down, he come down to stretching right, And maybe
at that time it was just to maybe just to
fulfill a little bit of an ego that he had

(07:06):
come down and the Englishman would would stretch you a
little bit. Cause Vissoiri behind Chikh was the guy that
was there every day, five hours a day. He was
he was a major influence of our camp and he

(07:28):
would stretching and he was a great Iranian amateur wrestler.
In nineteen seventy four, he was a Pan American Games
gold medalist bodyguard to the Shaw of Iran. I mean
the guy was a tough guy. No, there was the
verns of a lot of the verns. Main Amacans didn't

(07:50):
come down to share too much with us. Most of
our camp was just in the beginning of the first
three or four weeks with just a lot of exercise,
and I think there was about sixteen guys that first
came out and it was about about two weeks later
there was four of us left. Right.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
Were you able to pick up the business pretty quick?

Speaker 3 (08:10):
What cause tells me that I was. I was his
best pupil. So out of the four guys, do you
know who the other three were? No, Jen Nelson, Scott Irwin. Yes,
I think he passed away with some kind of brain cancer,
retic cancer, Okay, buck zoom Off.

Speaker 4 (08:33):
It was.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
That was the four of us. Jan I don't think
he wrestled that long afterwards, just maybe two or three years.
I hear I heard he died at the Rolling Stones
concert and the men's bathroom was needle in his arm.
And then of course we know Scott died of cancer.

(08:54):
I don't know what buck zoom Hops do. What are
some of the first starts that you worked for, well,
vern work for Verne. After I went through the camp
was about three months, but eleven or twelve weeks after that,
worked with the AWA for probably about eight weeks two months,
and then we went I went to shipped down to Florida.

(09:17):
I was kind of happy to hear that. He came
and told me, he said, well, you've been here for
a couple of months wrestling in the a w A.
I want to send you down to Florida and you're
going to wrestle down there for Eddie Grant. Well, I
grew up down in Florida, and I was almost happy
to go back home, but I didn't. I didn't. I
didn't wrestle there very long, maybe just two or three months. Right.

(09:37):
This is his name, Jim Barnett working with Georgia Championship Wrestling.
And I think at that time that was, you know,
that was like mid seventies or something like that. I
think at that time he might have owned a piece
of Florida. I'm not sure that. And he would He
came down TVs a lot and I was just a
you know, green young talent. He wanted me to come

(10:01):
to Atlanta and worked for Atlanta Georgia Championship Wrestling. I
think I'd only been in Florida one week, and I
kind of declined, trying to do as nice that could hit.
You know, I'm really green. Right two months into the business,
he said, well, look I grew up here in Florida.
You know, I've just gotten back. I've been away. I

(10:21):
think at this time, I've been away close to a year.
I went to Minnesota on the starting which I thought
was the starting date of the wrestling campany got postponed,
postponed month, you know, weeks later in the months, and
this and that, and then it was finally six months
later camp finally started. But I was up there for
a year, gotten back, got tired of Minnesota, snow happy
to get back to Florida. And I just said, look,

(10:43):
I've only been home for a week. And so he
would come to TV almost every single week and ask me,
would you come wrestled for me and Georgia Championship.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Everybody everybody does.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
Oh my boy. So I think after two months Eddie
came to me and he said, look, Barnett really wants
you to go to Georgia Championship Wrestling. And I think
it would be a good move for you. Ah, I
might give you a little bit of a break to
a couple of main eventure spots. So h. After just

(11:21):
two months and in Florida went to Georgia Championship Wresisdent.
I was there for almost probably a year and after
that at the latter part around nineteen Lati part in
nineteen seventy six went to uh, Carolinas.

Speaker 4 (11:36):
Who are some of the guys you worked with Georgia
for freeing up with Carolinas.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
Slater, Dick Slater, who was made of that guy? I gotta,
I gotta, I got a story about it. What's you
know Booker? At that time, I've heard of Tom Renesto. Yes, yeah,
I was there, maybe just for a couple of months,
and Ronesta said, look, we're gonna give you a portion.
We're gonna give you work with Dick Slater at that time,

(12:04):
I think Slater was working program with two Wrestling. To
John Jenny Walker, I said, what we're gonna do is
that we're gonna have you worked this week with Slater
on TV. We're gonna have Slater go over this week.
We're gonna bring you back next week and work with Slater.
You know you're gonna go over. Then we're gonna have
the tiebreaker match. Out of that, we're gonna work in anger. Well,

(12:27):
I said, that's them fine. You know, So that week
I worked with Slater, I put him over. Second week
of TV, We're all show up. I think we did
it on Saturday mornings, like you had to be there,
like eight thirty was rough Friday night, and and I said,
I wasn't even on a book, be on TV or anything.

(12:48):
I said, what what are we're doing? And we're gonna
do that next week? Next week, the same old story.
It never happened. I just ended up putting it Slater over.
I don't I didn't mind. You know, I'm green in
the business, just been in the bus this for well
maybe at that time, about six months or so, eight months.
Who am iight have said? You know, I'm not going
to put pick Schlater over. He's made of big guy.

(13:11):
Didn't have to swerve me to for me to put
him over, right, tell me the stories. Diana Gucci dean
Ho was a real big influence of mine. And when
I was at Georgia for a year where he lived
in the same apartment complex and he was just around
the corner from me. Would have me over his place

(13:32):
every single day to eat, and when I traveled every
single day to and from the matches, and at that
time Georgia was the type of territory when you'd work
Monday through Saturday and have Sunday off. Never worked on Sunday,
never worked. So every Sunday I was over his place,
he'd have a barbecue going on. He was a big influence,

(13:55):
good worker, not a great worker, but a good worker.
And we would talk and he would teach me ring
psychology and why would you do this in the match
and why you do that? Actually helped develop my style
when I got into doing some of that karate stuff
in the ring, because that's what he used. And he said, no,
I don't have a problem with passing it along to you,

(14:16):
you know. So I would say that first year, there
probably wasn't anybody else while I was in Atlanta during
that first year hanging out with nobody else. It was
just probably mostly deaned with his wife, and I think
that one of the kids on was just hanging out

(14:37):
with him. Every single day. I was by myself, worked
out together and just rode. He never got in the
ring to show bumps or everything like that. Basically we
just we just we Yeah, just classroom pact, right talking,
But it's really helped me.

Speaker 4 (14:54):
Now, you went to Carolina's, who are some of the
first guys you.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Worked with there?

Speaker 3 (15:00):
I wasn't there. I wasn't there maybe six months and
then Flair wanted to went to Jim Crockett and do
an angle with him. Right, So, prior to that, I
was doing opening matches. Okay, names escape me and who

(15:23):
I worked with that from back at that time. Guy,
you're going back twenty four twenty five years ago. But
Flair was was the biggest, biggest influence when he went
to Crockett Promotions wanted to do an angle for I
guess if there was at that time this went the
tv TV Championship.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Right, Yeah, you guys did the thing where you get
each other's closed off.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
And stuff like that. Yeah, that was that was That
was good.

Speaker 4 (15:48):
Was classic stuff. Re memberies of some of the stuff
you do it Rick and what was Rick like back
in that time.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
You don't believe it or not, even though that Flair
has been in the business, I guess we say twenty seven,
twenty eight years twenty somewhere else there.

Speaker 4 (16:11):
And knowing Rick.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
I don't speak with him too often now, but the
times that I have in the past five years, he
seems like wine. He's aged and you can see that
he's angaged. But he's better, you know, he is. He
can't he can't go like the way Rick could go.
He can't. He can't take that upside down turn bubble bump.

(16:33):
And maybe it's maybe one out of two now, maybe
one of the three he makes it over right. The
other one or two he doesn't, you know, But he's
the same. Maybe he's also mellowed out as he's gotten
a little older now with with there's nighttime lifestyle. But

(16:55):
I still hear, you know, occasionally Rick, the Rick flair
will come out, uh on occasion.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
Did you feel the chemistry between you guys early on?

Speaker 3 (17:05):
Yes, as a natural thing. I am you know, you
look at my physical features, darker skin, different eyes, black hair.
Here's flair with you know. He would always stay tan though,
you know, but with the blonde hair. Interviews totally different.
I'm an a he's a z you know, straight baby face,

(17:28):
he's a straight heel, I mean, very humble, very quiet.
Taught me a lot in the business.

Speaker 4 (17:36):
Timing.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
You know, he talked to me in the MAS come on,
come on, come back, fight back, you know, sell this,
sell that a probably as as to get a get
started in the main event. You know, I would have
to say that, I have to, Oh, you know, this
is Ricky Steboat talking. I mean, I owe probably everything Flair. Wow. Yeah,

(18:00):
influence listening to him in and out the ring, I
was so you can see, as you know, that started
pretty much myself to be on a main event from
that point on in my career with Flair and through
the years at the Carolina's. I don't remember, and I

(18:21):
couldn't honestly tell you. I'd have to really think about
it hard. How many different times him and I hooked
up while we were, you know, working that territory for
nine or ten years before I went to WWF. God
is because he was he was just probably the major
influence in my wrestling career.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
At what point did you start working the forty five
to sixty minute matches?

Speaker 3 (18:47):
I think when it was appointed we could, in other words,
we could work for forty five minute match or sixty
minute match, or we've done many fifty nine minutes forty
some seconds when we when we realized we could carry
carry it off.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Where did your work as it come from? And were
some guys intimated to work with you?

Speaker 3 (19:15):
If they If they did, then nobody ever said anything
to me. After a while, everybody sort of got the
reputation of the idea that Steamboat does like to put
in time in the ring. And if you want to
put in have a good match of Steamboat in which
everybody knew that I would give it my best shot,
give it ond percent. But you somewhat got to get

(19:37):
in shape because I like, I like to go thirty
five to forty minutes every single night, and then you
have the guys that want to go out there to
go seventy nine ten minutes every single night, you know.
But I was that was to me out of everything
about our business, you know, the politics of the business,

(19:58):
the traveling aspect of the business. What is your family?
You know? The working in the ring was the fun time,
and that was my time. And if I was the
main vat guy, and I understood it to be that
I had a sixty minute time with it. You know,
even though many times the book or the agent says

(20:18):
all we need is twenty minutes to now, I can't
tell a story. I mean, I'm just getting warmed up.
We just got the first twenty minutes. We just got
finished maybe making the baby face shine a little bit,
and that's time for the heel to start getting some heat.
You know, it's lair and then and then then I
would sell him for twenty minutes is you know, we're

(20:39):
forty minutes into the match. Now, we we're starting to
think about maybe we ought to start lining it up
to go home, you know, but we forty minutes into
the match every night, So it got to be the
wrap that. You know, if you're getting married the steamboat
and work in a program with him for a couple
of months and a lot of guys, did you better
get a shape? All of a sudden you find him

(20:59):
at the gym. You'd see him on the StairMaster. You know,
a guy weighing two hundred ninety pounds, never been on
a StairMaster's wife, all things on a StairMaster. Because he's
gonna be working program with me for six weeks. Whatever
was working with Piper back then. Oh, Piper was crazy.
Just but then again, you know the way I think
back on Flair and now I think back on Roddy

(21:23):
a little more mellowed, you know, aged a little better
like wine, demeanors a couple of notches below, same with Flair, right,
but see still Roddy, you know, still Roddy. He wouldn't
back down from nobody, wouldn't back down from Andre the Giant.
And I'm not saying that to say that if there's

(21:45):
any confrontation. I'm just using the physical difference. But I
Piper wouldn't back there for nobody. And if he was
your friend, it didn't matter. If it was four o'clock
in the morning and you were one hundred miles away
stuck some place, he would come cat you and see
what h what was jim crocking like? H I think

(22:09):
Jimmy to me tried to try to project, and maybe
he did it to make guys like me, because you know,
I'd only been in the business for a little bit
over a year or so when it came to Carolina's

(22:30):
tried to and I think back on the snapers, he
just asked me this question, is that tried to project
that he knew about the business. And I guess, logically,
thinking you would think so because he grew up with
jim Sr and ran the ran the company for many
many years out of twenty thirty years before passing it

(22:50):
in through his pass along his son. And why because
he passed away. But I don't think Jimmy had had
a real foothold on the business. Example, for somebody as
trying to compare like a Vince, you know, the way
Vince grew up Ben Senior, same situen at scenario two
sons against the father's business. But as you can see

(23:14):
what the mindset that Vince said and what he's done
with it, and the downfall that led to Jimmy, he
could get persuaded to persuaded and very easily I think,
to go down the wrong path. You know, I think
Desty had a big influence on the problems with the
company trying to grow too big, too fast. You know,

(23:38):
I just couldn't couldn't keep up with the Joneses.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
I was gonna ask about later, but what are some
of your memberies of your mansags with Harley Race.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
Harley, you know from the old time school, liked me
very much. I know Harley did. Harley was big on
going back and forth to Japan, and I guess during
during my career. I went back and forth about twelve
or thirteen times, and it almost seems for timing. I

(24:14):
don't know why, but I would have to say eight
or nine out of my twelve tours to Japan, Harley
was on the tour. Work with him a little bit
over Japan, work with him when he as when he
was world champion, going around. But Harley, if he had

(24:34):
if he had respect for you, he would take care
of me in the match. Now, Race is a tough guy,
and you don't want to cross him. You know, he's
a tough man. He got a real bad car accident
years years back, and he's get this stell rod in
his arm, right you know that?

Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (24:51):
That, and guy's got big fat fingers and a big fist,
you know. And for with that steel rod, I mean,
if he ever kneels you with it and be peeling
you off the pavement. And he had also a reputation
that he would not back down from anybody. He was
a tough, strong john. What did he do to me
that just amaze me an hour? At that time, I

(25:14):
was a big musclehead and I was into pump and
iron and everything, Harley naver pump, I mean maybe early
in his career he might have worked out in some ways. God,
he did something to me, something about reaching over the
top rope and picking me up by my my wrestling
tights over the top rope back into the ring, you know,

(25:35):
And I was two hundred and thirty pounds one arm,
which was kind of amazing, you know, off the ring
a right, you know, just to grab everybody in the
back of your wrestling tights and pick you up over
the top rope and bring me in the ring kind
of you know. I just was, you don't mess with
this man, you know. But Harley, if he liked it,

(25:56):
he took care of I had great, great matches with Harley.
Taught me a lot. I just like Flair, even though
styles were a little different. Flair was a little bit
more flashy, but Harley was tiny.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
How did you get paid without Jay young Blood.

Speaker 3 (26:16):
Steve Romero, it's his real name. Sure, it was around
nineteen and I'm thinking late seventy eight, seventy nine. He
came in, came in from I guess Portland. I think

(26:39):
originally Jay is from Texas. I don't know. We got
riding together going to the matches, and you know, you know, Robi. Really,
I think maybe it's just through discussion that you know,
maybe we could go as a tag team. Went into

(27:01):
Jim Crockett said, how about team in this afternoon at
that time. At that time, I don't you know, the
company at that time didn't want me to go so
much as tag team. They wanted to keep me out
their singles so I could work with guys like Flair
and Blackjack Mulligan and Greg Valentine, right right. But teaming
me up with what Jay would would tie that up

(27:22):
a lot and not give me that opportunity. Although when
we eventually did get tagged up, when we proved that
we were a good tag team and we could draw
some money for the company, we had some matches with
Flair and Valentine as they were tagged up, all right,
and also the Briscos, Brisco brother Sargan Slaughter, Don Cernudle,
great great matches.

Speaker 4 (27:41):
What do you re memories of some of those matches?

Speaker 3 (27:43):
You know, people ask me, you know, my favorite matches,
and of course the public would ask you about My
match was Savage at Wrestleminting three, my match and my
matches with Flair in nineteen eighty nine when I won
the belt and we had the match was two out
of three falls. They're always asking me about those two

(28:04):
and I understand why because those two got a lot
of PR wrestling magazines, they were paid per view shows,
right and uh, they got a lot of PR not
knowing that prior to those two particular matches. God, the
great great matches that I had with Young Blood is
tag team with Jack and Jerry Briscoe. The matches I

(28:27):
had we had with Sergeant Slaughter and Don Pernodle. You know,
people they don't know about those matches, but maybe the
fans in the Carolina student and they come to the
live show and watch it. You know, those those were
just unbelievable matches.

Speaker 4 (28:46):
What was the story behind your retirement match?

Speaker 2 (28:47):
And I think it was eighty two with Sargeant Slaughter.

Speaker 4 (28:56):
The big video for you.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
That was a match I think that came about. It
was a stipulation that they We started doing stuff back
then that was unheard of, such as filming on on
on TV, the signing of a contract for a wrestling match.
You know, we started doing that at that time. Crockett

(29:22):
and I think it was who was maybe George Scott
was booking at the time we thought of oh we
were so a way ahead of our time, but I
don't think that was That wasn't a single match between
Slaughter and myself. That match was a build up for
a big match that we had in Greensboro, which was

(29:42):
j and myself against Slaughter Canodle in a cage. And
then he threw this last stipulation at me while we
were sitting at the table, you know, make the big
surprise steamboat that if we didn't win that, I think
Jay and I would also have to dissolve. Of course
dissolve as a tag team, but then I would have

(30:03):
to retire from the business if I didn't if we
didn't win a match, well, we won the belt, so
we didn't do that. But that's just another little anguaway
through and there.

Speaker 4 (30:10):
Did you work for Georgia Champions for pressing.

Speaker 3 (30:12):
At all Georgia? Yeah? Yes, only was booking.

Speaker 4 (30:16):
What was only like his booker?

Speaker 3 (30:19):
Oh it was a real hard nose. He was a
real hard nose. You wouldn't take lip from nobody, and
it had to be his way or no way. I
thought he was an okay guy, but I thought he
was was. I mean, there was no gray area, either

(30:40):
his way or I'll find you another place to go.
He's actually the one that found me. Call up Carolinas.
You got me to Carolinas, right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Were you shocked when I J passed away?

Speaker 3 (30:53):
Yes? Yeah, young man twenty nine years old?

Speaker 4 (31:00):
What are your memories of the All Japan tours? M
I'm working for Giant Ball.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
You know, Rob I found for me. For those tours.
It was a struggle as though as nice as they
tried to make it.

Speaker 4 (31:23):
Was it the style or was it being away from
the States.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
Or no, I am. I did work with some of
the Japanese, but my mother was from Japan. Right over there.
All the Japanese wrestlers were babyfaces, and most of the
Americans were heels going over there to work, and all

(31:46):
of a sudden, after one or two tours, I found
myself being in with more with the Japanese guys and
working every night with the Americans, and they loved it.
Every night show we'd go to, they'd look at the
car that was put up on the wall, and all
the guys, the American guys, they're all hoping, say, oh God,

(32:08):
I hope I got steamboat tonight, you know, instead of
Jumbo or somebody or Tenoru, because yeah, there's stiff, and
plus you know, you're working in their backyard and there
and they're there for some reason. All of a sudden,
that same guy I knew Tenor when he came to
the Carolinas, and he would work hard. But it was
amazing the difference of work ethic that he had working

(32:31):
here in the States and he's working there in this country.
Oh god, he would you better get in shape, buddy,
they're going to run run you over. And so the Americans,
whenever we get into the locker room, they would they
look on who do you have tonight? Is I got Rick?
I got steamboat tonight? You know. So the working part

(32:52):
of it, although I did have several several several matches
with the Japanese guys, and a lot of them were
just babyface matches, which is sometimes like grind grinding teeth
out there. But you know, I just found the tours
were hard. We did a lot of traveling and some
days it was sixteen hour days to get you where
you had to go. Yeah. We one day we did

(33:16):
every form of transportation to get to this one little
spot show. I mean it was from the plane to
the taxi, taxi to the greyhound bus, the bus to
the train, the train to a ferry, you know, crossing
over this channel, you know, back onto another taxi cab.
You know, it was if it was everything. We did

(33:36):
everything except for damn horse and donkeys, just to get there.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
Going back to the Carolinas. Do you have any good
rotaries that are in your mind?

Speaker 3 (33:49):
Oh, God, let me let me give you Jackie, Jerry Briscoe.
And I hope you guys don't mind me telling telling
that story. This is this is a great story. This
happened on more than one occasion. It would be driving
back from Greensboro. Greensboro was about an hour and a
half drive. And those two guys like to drink their beer. God,
those guys like to drink their beer. Well, one story

(34:12):
goes that Gerald, who always drove, if it was just
the two of them together, Jack would ride Shotgun and
Gerald would be driving. Gerald drove from Greensboro to Charlotte.
You get on an Interstate eighty five, just go south
in eighty five, you running right into Charlotte. Well, he
drove all the way through Charlotte, past Charlotte, until the

(34:34):
car ran out of gas. Almost down like Greenville, South Carolina.
Another hour and a half two hour drive. They pull
over and Jack, who was in the car sleeping, Gerald
wakes him up and then he goes Jack, Jack, Yes, Gerald, Jack,

(34:59):
I ran out of gas. Get some gas. Gerald. So
there he's out. You know, this is two o'clock in
the morning. He's out there in the interstate. Jack. Gerald
goes to what starts walking the interstate in the next
accident coman It could have been a mile, could have
been ten miles, and he comes back with a can

(35:20):
of gas. Jack is sleeping inside the car with his
head rested up against the window, and Gerald needs to
Jack locked the car because he knew he's gonna fall asleep.
Gerald need to get back in the car. He's in
the ignition to unlock the gas cap and then outside
of the car, you know, pull hit the button and

(35:41):
inside and the flap flips. He banged it, he said. Jack.
Gerald told me later said, man, I banged on that
window so hard to wake up Jack. And every time
I was banging on that damn window to get him
to wake up and unlock the car, I could see
his head bounce off the glass. Just every time I
get room. Finally, after about and he said a dozen

(36:04):
times or so, he finally woke up and they did
the same thing. They did the same thing. Now, let
me change it. I said, coming from Greensboro through Charlotte.
That particular one was driving from Richmond, Virginia to Charlotte.
Now Greensboro was an hour and a half, Richmond was
five hours. So they left Richmond, let's say ten o'clock,

(36:28):
drove through Charlotte at three o'clock in the morning, and
then kept on driving. That was three hundred miles from
Richmond to Charlotte, and kept on driving and he ran
out of gas. They didn't get back home till like
six or seven o'clock the next morning.

Speaker 4 (36:43):
What are some of your memories of working with Tully Blanchard?

Speaker 3 (36:47):
Hard worker? Everybody you know, and I know Tully today
and he would probably agree with me. Everybody that knew
Blanchard knew that Tully had a little bit of an attitude.
He had a little bit of a chip on his shoulder.

(37:08):
I understand he was good athlete in high school football
quarterback and college or something like that. Also in high school,
not a bad ballplayer, which leads you to believe it's
probably has a good work ethics about working out and
keeping in shape, you know, to be able to good.
But I think maybe maybe it had something to do

(37:32):
with his dad being a promoter down there in a
couple of towns down there in Texas, right, the Blanchard name,
and really not being the biggest of heels, but off
camera he always had that little chip on his shoulder
and it sort of carried through on camera when he

(37:55):
did his interviews, and it also carried through into his
he worked in the ring, and so the fans viewed
I think fans few tully. He wasn't the biggest of
all heels, but God blessed they hated him because he
had He was a cocky son of a bitch out

(38:16):
there in the ring, you know, and it's just uh
and a little bit that rubbed off even when in
real life for you know, everybody say yeah, I tell you, yes, yeah.
You know he's got the chip on his shoulder. Sometimes
he gets that attitude. Man, you just want to slap
the ship out of him or something, you know. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
Now, when NWA started to go northeast, you headlined a
few shows against Rick Flair. How are those matches received
by the traditional w F crowns. I think he wrestled
with the metal.

Speaker 3 (38:45):
Excellent, excellent, excellent response. I'm sure that the I know,
the fans that were the true wrestling fans that followed
the business either heard of out or saw some of
flares in my matches. You know, the guys would the
fans of drive travel around every night. But we also

(39:10):
knew that when we went to the Metal Lands to wrestle.
But there has been you know, there's some great, great
workers up there in the w W. I mean, you know,
you had the Sam Martinos and the Pedro Morales's, you know,
Tony Career and you know, Killing wall Street and all
the great heels and so this is what you know,
all the fans in that Northeast area saw year of

(39:32):
the year, here's Steamboat and Flair coming in. We we
sort of wanted to make a statement, and we really
wanted to. You know a lot of times, I you know,
the attitude and I don't understand why guys that would
go out of their territory to wrestle sometimes want to
go out there and just have a match just to
get by. You know, it's you know, I'm you know

(39:55):
I'm up here visiting my so and so and so
and so, and I just got booked to work tonight.
You know, have a help cover expense, you know. But
I'm you know, tomorrow, I'm heading back to Texas and
I've been working down there for three years. And I've
come over here to Carolinas because i got a sister
that lives here and I'm just visiting with her and
her kids for a couple of days. So I booked

(40:16):
a match with Crockett and you know, get a little
payday to help cover the gas money. And those times,
you know you'd always see they'd have a okay, good match,
but it isn't like you know what you'd hear about them, right,
you know. You know, well Flare and I we it
didn't matter if we were wrestling in front of twenty
thousand or ten people. We got to and wrestle forty

(40:38):
forty five minutes and gives them, you know, there wasn't
anything different than our match. I look at this with
the mechanics of everything and body slams and body slam, backdrops,
backdrop and dive off the top rope is to dive
off the top rope, but it's all the little the
fine tuning stuff that we do in there. You know,
how did I sell? How did he sell? How did

(40:58):
he get heat? You know? When did we do this?
And when did we do that? When did when was
it my turn to make that big comeback? You know?
How long did he carry the heat? You know? Could
he carry the heat for twenty minutes? You know that
that's that's that's why we could work so well together
because I guess we did it so many times. We knew,
we knew what to do with each other.

Speaker 4 (41:20):
Now we doesn't.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
Sorry, I don't know if one of your questions are
I don't recall one of your questions. There's always I
get asked, which of the two matches the one that
we talked about earlier with with Randy Savage, right, and
the one with Flair. I get asked, which one of
those two is my favorite?

Speaker 4 (41:39):
I will ask you that you want to answer when
you get okay, okay? Serers came in the book for Crockett.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
How did the company change?

Speaker 3 (41:48):
So?

Speaker 2 (41:48):
I think you and Roddy Piper are two guys that
basically walked out.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
Yeah, well I went to the w w F at
that time.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Did you think it was the right time to leave
or do you guys have differences?

Speaker 3 (41:58):
Well, I just saw the writing on the wall. Us
he was you know, he's Booker slash babyface right right,
He's the guy with the pencil. Plus he's the babyface too,
and I'm the bay. I was a babyfacing that that
territory for several several years. I saw the riding on
the wall. It started with started with Tully and we

(42:21):
would we would, I would wrestle I think at that
time he had had beat me for the TV Belt.
At that time, the time limit, even though the match
was a sixty minute time limit for the first twenty minutes,
the TV Championship was up right, it made it kind
of interesting, a little different. And so I would wrestle
Tully all around the territory and beat him. But after

(42:47):
the twenty minute mark, I'd win the match, but I
didn't win the belt. So then we'd come back and
we do interviews for the next shows and say, okay,
we've extended the time limit to thirty So I would go,
you know, in the first time, I think I beat him,
like in twenty five minutes, you know, five minutes over
the time limits. And now we got thirty minutes, so
I got five minutes to spare, so I'm going to
win the belt. Now we go all around the territory.

(43:09):
Now we beat him at you know, the thirty five
or forty minute mark, you know, just five or ten
minutes right after the thirty minute mark. Then we went around.
I think we went around. I think we went as
far around as a third time with Blanchard, in which
we extended the time limit to forty five minutes on

(43:30):
the belt and it was in Greensboro, and I beat
him like in forty seven minutes or something like that,
two minutes after the you know, and Blanchard had a
great way of painting a picture of being able to
show the fans how he could cheat the time. In
other words, how do you know? People kept saying, how
in the world did he keep was he able to

(43:51):
keep extending you know, staying away from me? You know,
first he went twenty minutes, and then you went thirty minutes.
Now you're going forty five, and every single time you
can't beating him, like two or three minutes after the
time limit expired, you know. So everybody thought was damn Stey,
but you're going to get him next time, because they
just gave you an extra ten minutes. You're going to

(44:12):
get him, for sure. But but Blanchard had great pasana
and a great way of projecting, and the people could
see it always stalling, you know, and all this, and
damn you know, and I'd be chasing after running around
and all this and all that. But after we had
done that Greensboro match in which I didn't beat him
for the belt, but I did beat him, and it
was only a couple of minutes after the time I
would expire, and Dusty came back to Greensboro after that

(44:38):
match with Blanchard and beat Tully in twelve minutes. I
took the TV belt and then Dusty immediately started hooking
me up with Nikita Cola. I think Nick at that
time had just been working a year or two in
the business, and Big Rushing had a great look about him,

(45:03):
and I think and a new heel, a new guy
on the block. So I saw the writing on the
wall because I saw things that were happening on TV.
He'd have Nikki to come up and close line me
from behind because I'm walking up the aisle back to
the locker room and stuff like that. And then I
know that he's just trying to build up Nikita because

(45:24):
I could see in which happened later on. The writing
on the wall was that it was Dusty and Nikita.
You know, the American dream against the Russian nightmare, right
look good on paper. But I just decided it was
time for you know, I've been there for several years,
time for me to go. George Scott at that time
was booking for Vince starting up there with the big
WrestleManias and everything, and I think timing was good for

(45:47):
me to go.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
Now, how different was the WF when he first entered
it compared to Jim Crockett's promotion.

Speaker 3 (46:01):
You know at that time, all the guys, oh man,
we're gonna be flying everywhere instead of driving. You know,
I'm going to be flying to Philly, Dallas, LA instead

(46:21):
of driving. I remember that was a big comment with everybody.
I'm goin to find out. Everybody wanted to get back
to driving. You know, you could pull over at a
gas stop and get something to drink. You could just
if you get hungry, you could pull into the drive through.
You know, you weren't stuck with a plane full of
people like a bunch of cattle in and around cylinder

(46:45):
breathing all these germs, and everybody's jagging and coffin, and
somebody's sick or this baby next to you is crying.
You know, God bless us. Everybody says, Man, this traveling
by air ships, and I want to get in my
car and drive, put the windows and rolled down the
highway with the air coming in right. And we were
doing this, this traveling by you know, every single day.

(47:07):
It was different time zones, jet lag, you know, and
every now and then you would get booked in a
part of the country to where maybe you could be
there for two or three days, you know, Florida, you
could maybe wrestle, Tampa and Miami and West California, then
La San Diego, San Francisco, you know, Anaheimo. That was

(47:29):
whenever we saw those bookies, everybody was like it was
a breath of fresh air. But other than that, they
would have you go. You know, you could go New York,
you know, Chicago, Chicago, down to Dallas, Dallas, up to Montreal, Montreal,
down to Miami, Miami, over to Portland, Portland, over here
to Philly, Philly, you know, the Minneapolis, Minneapolis, down to

(47:52):
you know, New Mexico.

Speaker 4 (47:53):
It was just it was horrifying more your initial persons
of vistment man.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Likable guy, you know at the beginning. Here here's a
guy that, yeah, doing something in the business that actually
changed changed everything about our business. As we talked today,
going Coast to Coast with TV running rough shot over

(48:21):
all the other promoters TV. You know, I'm sure you
understood that everybody that had their territory from the from
the van Erics to you know, Texas to Bill Watts
out there, and you know the Crockett Caroline is anagram
down Florida, burn up and up in Minnesota. You know
that everybody. I don't think anything was written down on paper.
It was just a word and a handshake that you

(48:43):
keep your TV and your territory. I keep mine in
mind that way, when when he exchanged talent, I got
I got a new guy in that that's coming in
that nobody's seen. But he's a good worker, you know.
And Vince just decided to heck with all that and
just go Coast to Coast TV, Which is what did you.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Think it was smarter?

Speaker 4 (49:01):
Do you think it was?

Speaker 3 (49:02):
Yes? Ethics? Well, Roder, you got to understand that guys
like Flair and Savage, he Tally Blanchard, Dick Slater, we
all came around that time to where we were all
taught from the old timers, the verne Gans, the Brunos,
San Martinos, the Eddie Grahams, you know, all those guys

(49:26):
that paid their dues and taught us the work ethic
as we understood it. Have respect for your main event. Hey,
my even to this day. But I know my first
year of the business, I was a yes or noser guy.
I talked to some old timer and I didn't care
if he was you know, I had passed his prime
and he was doing the opening match in the card.

(49:48):
But if you know, his reputation speaks for itself and
what he had done while he's in the business. You know,
maybe he was a main eventor for twenty five years
and now he's just hanging on. But I was a
yes or notes or type of guy. But Vince was
very like I think at that time, he was a
very likable guy, and I think that was a natural

(50:11):
persona about Vince at that time, trying to fit in, okay,
taking a big step in the business, making history, doing
a lot of changes, trying to get the right talent,
and then everybody sees Vince as we see him today.
You know, this is a totally different man. Totally different

(50:35):
egos come into the factor. You know, power and strength
will always play the factor on your attitude, you know,
he says, especially just by an w C W and
it says, hey, I'm the man now.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
You know, were any of the w F rustlers intimidated
by your auth ethics.

Speaker 4 (50:57):
When you first entered.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
HM? You know, once again, Rob that that question was
like earlier because I like to go put in time,
you know, just off the wall. Nobody came up to
me directly and say, steamboat you know, damn it, you
gotta go from forty minutes and I cut it back

(51:20):
to maybe twenty. Yeah, because if my match follows you,
that means I got to sit in the locker room
for another twenty minutes. Nobody really ever said that, right,
Although you could sort of feel it around you, you
can for some you have that uncanny you could feel it,
you know, every now and then. But no, I think

(51:42):
when I first went to WWF, my first real angle
was with Don Morocco. That my next question actually, yeah,
Don Morocco and mister Fuji No and Morocco Got he
was two eighty. I remember him in Florida's the Babyface.
You know, he's about sixty two sixty three Babyfacing Florida,

(52:02):
two hundred and twenty eight pounds got. He looked like
a Polynesian god when he walked to it. Tanned abs,
big cap shoulders, handsome face, black hair, you know. And
then when he went up to the WWF there in
the mid eighties, and he's working here with mister Fuji,
and I said, sometime he got the three hundred pounds

(52:26):
big guy work ethic. No, Morocco would be there, foaming
at the mouth, grueling, trying to suck as much air
as he could get, blow it up. But you couldn't
stop him. He would be there, you know, if it
was time for my comeback, and we've been going thirty
minutes and he was tough for him to bounce and bump,
he would fly for you. I don't know how he

(52:48):
did it. He looked like he was on the verge
of dying, passing out, throwing up, having a miscarriage all
in the same time. But the guy would be there, backdrop,
hip toss over the top, rope, come off, throwing over
the top, come off the top rope with a dive
onto the floor with me, I'll be there. And I'm
sitting there wondering as I'm plimbing the rope and I

(53:08):
look down there on the floor and he's getting up.
Is he really going to be there? Because I'm looking
at the guy that I've been working with for thirty minutes,
shit all over, running down his chest, piece of throw up,
hanging up his savage face.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
Right.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
You know you've been out in an all night drunk
the night before. You know him and Fuji? You know,
is he going to be there for me? As I
do this dive off the top rope down to the floor.
The guy was there and every single time he was there?

Speaker 2 (53:37):
How could you How would you compare Ric Flair and
Rady Savage you worked with both of them?

Speaker 3 (53:43):
Yes, Okay, let me recap that question real quick. Okay,
The most asked question of all my matches is between
the Randy Savage and Rick Flair match. Okay, Savage being
in eighty seven, Flair eighty nine, and the reason why
is that those got a lot of coverage because they

(54:03):
are paid per view shows. There was a lot of
build up on them. And when I answered, when I
answer it this way and I'm answering it this way
to the camera, being very candid. This is an answer
that I usually give when I'm with the boys, but

(54:24):
you know, hey, this is year two thousand and one.
The businesses where it's at, there's been a lot of exposure.
So this is my answer. Savage in mind and the
match that we had at Wrestum year three. Savages was
the kind of guy that was very a very detailed worker.

(54:45):
He would like everything lined up in your match. If
you had locker room time at a house show house show,
you're working with Savage for the evening, he would spend
as much time with you as he possibly he could,
and if he liked you, if he didn't like you,
he would just go there and have a match and
take as much as he could take. But if you

(55:08):
got along good with you and knew that you were,
you know, on the same level playing field as him
and trying to have collectively a great match, he would
be there for you. But getting ready for we did
the angle which he came off the top rope on
the on my throat with the with the with the
ply with and the announcer's bell, and that was done

(55:29):
I think in around December seventy six. Of course, WrestleMania
wasn't in until until March or I'm sorry eighty six,
and so we had three or four months of TV
to build up on it, which they don't have that
luxury now. Well, we may talk about that later. So
as we're going, we said, hey, we know we got
to we got this big match versus WrestleMania three. It's

(55:51):
at the Silver Dome. Andre the Giant and hal Coogan
are headlining it. You know, we're the main event right
below that, and we both understand it. You know, it's
well we know that, and Andre and Hogan are going
to be the ones that's selling and selling the tickets.
People are going to pay to see that. I mean,
we've got some interest there. But let's understand what the

(56:13):
way Vince and Hogan and Andre collectively I put together
the main event for this wrestle any of three. And
then of course we had some friendly mentioned Savage and Steamboat,
and we did the angle and TV a couple of
interviews afterwards, you know, like I couldn't talk, but let's say,
you know, they they sold they sold the show. No,

(56:37):
no giving back on that. It was Andre and Hogan.
But I told Savage, I said, damn, let's go there
to steal it. They sold the show, We'll steal the show.
I knew Andre had a bad back. He's hurting. They're
not going to five hundred punds. Man's like a bone.
You know, it's going to be a relatively boring match.
And I think it kind of ended up that way,
which is the bearhood, right, especially after the fans got

(57:01):
to see our match, which we were just right before that.
But Savage, he was detailed and he wanted everything lined
up from step one, step two, step three, step four,
step five. I mean step one, believe it or not,
Rob was lock up. And you get a couple of
old pros out there in the wrestling would you Why
would you have to write step one is lock up?
You know you would lock up? Right? That was Savage,

(57:24):
very detailed. We got to like, we're up to step
two hundred and eighty five, page after page. I had
a spiral bound notebook, you know, and the Knights that
we would be working against each other, we would always
meet in one of the other's hotel room. Why we
would have our notebook. After we'd written out the whole
match and all the steps, I would turn the page,

(57:46):
you know three, and I said, okay, I want step
one hundred and ninety seven and Randy, it is this, this, this,
and this, tell me the rest of the match. And
he said, okay, step one ninety eighty is, this is
step one ninety ninety is. This is what step two
hundred is, you know, on and all the way through
the match. And then the next night we would meet
if we were in the same town, books the same town,

(58:07):
and he'd go, okay, Steve Bot, I'm on step number
ninety seven, tell me the rest of the match. And
we would do this every single night or every time
that we were in the same town we had the match.
Do I think the reason ding is sixteen minute match?
Almost like twenty some false finishes, twenty two twenty one
false finishes, and we had a false finish every forty

(58:27):
five seconds, which was, you know, unusual. It was usually
you'd have a babyface would shine doing some babyface high spots,
the heel would stop to get some heat, and then
there would be the comeback and you go home. Well,
we had from the get go we had just false
finishes and people which just people then started getting into it,
you know, after an eight, nine, ten false finishes. Yeah,

(58:51):
now that just tells you the mechanics of that particular match, right,
that's the way Savage like to do it. Flair and
I eighty nine return match, I think down New Orleans
two had three falls. We went fifty seven minutes. We
went into that match knowing three things. The three falls

(59:14):
in a fifty seven minute match. The rest we said,
see in the ring, Wow, we're gonna win. We've been
working with each other, so we just seeing the match,
seeing the ring. So there's the difference. You got a
sixteen minute match with two hundred and eighty some steps.
You got almost an hour match going annoying three things.
Which do you think is the more professional? Yeah, you

(59:37):
get a couple of timers that can wing a match
for an hour and just all they had to do,
all they knew was going in was the three finishes,
you know, and that's what so obviously it was a
flare for me. It was the Flare match, you know,
because that's that's just showing what a couple of old
posts can do, didn't it? Know? You want to now
call it in the ring, you know, fill it out. Well,
listen to the crap. I said, all right, Boddy, just

(59:58):
like the wayver you stir it. Yep, you know you
remember some of those old spots. Yeah, it's all right.
See in the ring is it? Five minute conversation? Get
our three finishes down? That's it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
What was your relationship outside the ring? Like with Halcoten?

Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
Not much?

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Did he keep to himself a lot?

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
Never, I don't think. I don't think there was a
single time outside the ring that we ever ran into
each other. He would be and I don't knock this,
he'd you know, staying at the finals hotel in every

(01:00:41):
city that you could probably stay at, you know, right.
And I was made good money working with WWF and Evince,
but I was always in the back of my mind
trying to save some money, so I'd be staying maybe
at the Red Roof.

Speaker 4 (01:00:56):
All right now.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
Team with Jimmy Snok a couple of times.

Speaker 4 (01:00:59):
Why was that team that really.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
Pushed I don't know. I don't know why we were
teamed and I think, you know, try to go with this,
uh with this polonies and connection tag team theme something

(01:01:20):
like that. I know we'd Uh, maybe maybe he didn't
want us tie being tied up together as tag team.
Being the same city. I would see Snook occasionally on
the road, but a lot of times he would be
in another another venue, another city, and I was in one.

(01:01:41):
So instead of tagging us out.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Now you were there for WrestleMania one, how would you compare,
you know, WrestleMania one, two, and three? Did you realize
Vince was onto something pretty big?

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
I realized on WrestleMania three. WrestleMania one, of course, was
at Madison Square Garden, and that seemed to be to
me at that time, it still seemed to be very
very local, localized. You know. WrestleMania too was with the
three city location right, and we were out in LA

(01:02:18):
and then right after that show we had to we
were flying to Australia for a week and then turn
right around and fly back. That WrestleMania the only thing.
And I remember I worked with Hercules and Ands and
that good match, hard match, Hernandez Herk. He was just

(01:02:39):
he wanted to do so good, his heart, he wanted
to try so hard. He just blew up, got an
anxiety attack or something, got real stiff out there. God,
it was like fighting a steel pole. I didn't like
that WrestleMania. And also I guess and another reason is
because right after the next day or that night night

(01:03:00):
flight out out of LA, we were going to Australia
and we were flying. You know, here we are the
anxiety and anticipation of a big show. Fly eighteen hours
we flew from from LA to Australia, landed in Sydney,
which is Sydney is on the on the East coast.
Let's say, it's like landing in Philly here. Okay, all right,

(01:03:24):
God on the Now that's flying from the United States.
Make a gas stop and a pick up and a
drop off in Hawaii down to Australia to Sydney. Change planes.
Fly from Sydney to Perth. That's like flying Baltimore to LA.
All right, now this is after the big show. Fly
fly flights land in Sydney. Oh we're here. Now we

(01:03:48):
got to go. We're going what we're going to Perth?
Go to Perth, wrestle get on after the show, get
on a plane and fly back to Sydney. All this
in the one day, well day and a half that
it took. It was time to where when we landed
in Sydney and then fly another four hours across the country,

(01:04:10):
like flying across the States to Perth. That we would land.
There's like five thirty their time in the afternoon. Go wrestles.
Take everybody straight to the building. It's five thirty in
the afternoon. At six o'clock, wrestle that show. After the show,
bust everybody back to the airport. We we're catching the
midnight flight Australia time back to Sydney. Just do it,

(01:04:35):
I know it. Can you imagine how to wrestle plus
wrestle after the big show at WrestleMania two.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
I was gonna ask this question later, I might as
well ask it now. Yeah, drug's pretty rampant in the
business at the time, with the road schedule and stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):
Oh yeah, oh sure.

Speaker 4 (01:04:50):
What are your personal views on Joseph?

Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
I would I'm not gonna say that, I'd be a
liar if I didn't dabbled every now and then get
get a little little, a little hit speed or something.
You feel so run down being on the road, different
time zones. That was pretty much the attitude of everybody,
you know. But you know, for some you know, for
some reason, in this country, you get athletes that are

(01:05:18):
featured up there in the spotlight and with the big
money that they're being paid, and what is asked of
them to to be able to perform at one hundred
percent every time that they're out there in front of
the crowd, whether it be football, basketball, baseball, or whatever.
It's just as seems as though, I guess, I guess

(01:05:42):
starting with the in the seventies, you know, coming off
you know, Woodstock and all that from the late eighties
and all that, and then you know, guys would just take,
you know, take a little bit of this or a
little bittle hit of speed or something just to get
up for the get up for the match, just like
the football players do it right before the football game.

Speaker 4 (01:06:02):
You know, what do you remembers working with the hockey
talk man?

Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
Oh? Wayne Fers? Wayne was it? I hadn't seen Wayne
in a while, but at that time coming into the WWF.
Like a lot of people, they they were he was
a yes sir, no sir type of guy. Yes sir, yes, yes,
no no no, no, suir okay, Yes, you know, just

(01:06:28):
a he was okay guy. Right, Yeah, it kind of
I'm sure you may ask this question later. I may
answer it now, I've kind of hurt my feelings at
the time when I had dropped the belt to him
on TV. Yes, and and it sort of shocked at
all the other guys that were working for the company.
You know, I thought that I was going to have

(01:06:49):
the Intercontinental Belt for at least a year, at least
that's what I was told. But I understand Vince's position.
It's a business decision that he made, and that is uh.
I wanted to I wanted to have a couple of
weeks off in and around the time that my Richie,
my son was going to be born. So being the
Intercontinental champion, Vince said that he could not leave that
belt dormant during and for a couple of weeks. Well,

(01:07:13):
my respond back, you know, I think it was my
first respond back to Vince in a in a defensive manner,
defending myself. I said, two weeks is too much to
ask his belt to be, you know, held dormant. I
mean sometimes we don't make it back to some of
these major cities for over a month, you know, Chicago,

(01:07:35):
and then maybe do Chicago in a month, four weeks
or Philly, you know, something like that. So I just
said well, you know, I don't have a problem with
dropping it to to Wayne Ferris or the Honky Tonk man.
I don't have a problem, I said. I know, I
can take care of myself in the course of the match.

(01:07:57):
I never never had a problem in my shoulders down
for anybody if I knew that my main goal was
to make sure that the match got taken care of
and if we had a great match. To me, it
didn't matter who really won or lost, you know, it

(01:08:18):
didn't matter. So, yeah, it was I had had some
reservation because I did not know that much about Wayne Ferriss,
didn't didn't Washington work a little bit when he came
in with the company. I thought some of the things
that he were doing out there was kind of hockey.
You know. He got there to swivel his hips and
play the guitar, even though the man could never play

(01:08:40):
a note, you know, but but he was okay guy,
and he was trying to work his ass off and
trying you know. It just kind of surprised me. I
think the main reason why it surprised me is here's
a guy that's just coming to the company for a
couple of months, and there are several guys that are
standing in line, that have been working their ass off
for Evince every single night. That heels that I thought

(01:09:03):
that deserved the opportunity to have the Intercontinental Belt rather
than than the honky tongue man. And there's a couple
of long faces in the locker room and everybody found
out that Wayne was getting the belt. And also I
think there was a little bit of a you could
feel the thickness in the air with the the attitude
towards Wayne. Is this guy coming in with the glitter

(01:09:24):
and this this this el was Presley haircut, and guys
that had just been working the butt off that I've
been working with it and it's his heels. Yeah, you
could see it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:36):
Did your relationship change with Vince at the time a
little bit?

Speaker 3 (01:09:43):
Yeah, I think it did a little bit. At that time,
I think more than anything, Rob, I think my feelings
were hurt. We were just coming off of WrestleMania three.
Every it wasn't a day that didn't go by that
Savage and I after that show was either getting a

(01:10:04):
note or a pat on the back or every city
that would go into that maybe one of the old
timers that are now residing in that city, be Philly
or Chicago or someplace that would come in the locker
room and say something to me and Savage about that match.
We just got just so much notoriety from it, and
it sort of made me feel like, well, I'm on

(01:10:26):
top of the world with this company because just because
of good hard work ethics, it has put us there,
both Savage and I we are a fixed figure in
this company. And it didn't two months later, you know,
dropped the belt to the honky tonks. I think more
than anything, it hurt my feelings, and it hurt my

(01:10:47):
feelings in a way that if you had a friend
that hurt your feelings and how your outlooking attitude sort
of changes towards your friend.

Speaker 1 (01:10:57):
A lot of people say Vince's like that, you know,
will make you're his best friend, like Hogan or somebody.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
I'll keep you to a side, and then when he's
done with you, I'll move on.

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
Yeah, And it's sometimes the moving on is kind of abrupt, right,
you know. And I know I've seen guys going that
lot and and every TV has his own designated office area,
and so guys be kind of really pissed off at
Vince about what's happening or what what the guy heard
that's gonna happen to him on TV or something like that.

(01:11:28):
You know, man, I gotta go talk to Vince. You know,
he'd be kind of you know that that guy would
be kind of stern about me. I gotta I gonna
talk to Vince. You know, I don't like this ship
what they're gonna be doing with talk to this well.
You know, you see the guy walk over that goes
into Vince's office there at the building, you know kind
of you know, you can see he's pissed, you know,

(01:11:49):
and then after the you know, after the the the
discussion of the meeting, you know, you'd see him come
walking down with Vince's arm around his shoulders. The guy, Yeah, okay, Vince, Yeah,
no problem. Yeah, the guy ended up doing what he
was pissed off about, you know, and he's smiling doing it.
You know. Oh yeah, Vince is he has a way

(01:12:11):
as a demeanor, he has a way about you know. Yeah,
you could you could hate him one day and love
him the next.

Speaker 4 (01:12:18):
What do you remember he's working with Jake Roberts.

Speaker 3 (01:12:20):
Oh god, it was a great what a lot of fun.
You know, it's just too bad that the things that
have happened in the course of his life have happened.
I guess he's just I don't know, maybe he just
didn't have any self esteem about himself, or maybe he just,
you know, he left his guard down too many times.

(01:12:41):
But Roberts was a great, great worker, great worker, good timey,
convincing worker, sort of tall and skinny, you know, throw
a great punch, do a great knee. I don't think
he did hardly anything off the top rope, but didn't

(01:13:02):
have to psychology. Yeah, great, great timing, you know, and
a lot of fun, a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
How did you wind up coming back to w CW
and why did you leave?

Speaker 3 (01:13:16):
Vince? Okay, I I dropped the belt to the Honky
Tongue and I didn't have a problem with it. And
I think it was right after that TV. I told
Vince that it might be might have been right before

(01:13:37):
right after that TV is but you know, very close
to that TV time which I dropped the belt to Wayne,
I said, Vince, you know, I remember I was asking
I wanted the two weeks off because we're getting very
close to my son is Bonnie is gonna, you know,
given birth, very very close, So I said two weeks,
but I said, I really, I'm gonna I'm gonna take

(01:13:57):
six months. So I took six months off and didn't
come back till around late December January, and that was
getting ready for Wrestling four, which was the tournament for
the Bealty. And at that time, I wasn't you know,

(01:14:21):
during all this time, I was not under any contract,
never signed a contract. So we came back and we're
wrestling at Atlantic City, and I saw the they're having rounds,
and you keep like brackets, right, like wrestling brackets, you know,
and you keep advancing. Let me see, Okay, the first round,
I'm wrestling Valentine. Okay, and I'm just sort of talking

(01:14:44):
to myself. I'm looking at the brackets on the wall
in the locker room. It's okay. Second round. I got
Savage all right. In the first round, I probably would
go over Valentine, and then we all knew Savage was
getting the belt in that night, so I said, well,
he's getting a step, so I'll probably return the favor
back to Randy because he just dropped me the inter

(01:15:05):
Continental the Wrestle Lady before, so I'll put him over
in the second round. And that looks as though all
I've got to do for the rest of the evening,
go to the second round and then I'm out of here. Well,
Chief Jay strong Wo come up to me and he said, Ricky,
you're going to be doing a job with Hammer Now.

(01:15:26):
I don't mind doing it for Greg. We worked together
many times in the Carolinas. But I just I said,
what Chief he said? He says, first round you eliminated.
You can go home early tonight, you know that type
of thing. And I started to seize you at that time.
I told Bonnie and she went out to the concessions

(01:15:48):
and they had all the stuff out for all the
other wrestlers, the T shirts, head bands and key chains
and all this kind of stuff. Nothing out on me.
And when she would have thought that, here I've come
to being away for six months and I've come back
down and put stuff out. Nothing, so, uh, you know,

(01:16:10):
I don't recall how long after that, but it was
it was at that time I just said I gave
my I don't think I was there maybe three or
four months and I gave my notice. Yeah, I kind
of got the feeling I never had that much of
a discussion with Vince but I kind of got the
feeling that he was maybe using me as an example
or something. Right, Yeah, you know, he has a way

(01:16:32):
of doing that.

Speaker 4 (01:16:33):
When you went back to w CW, you know, had
a great match with Rick Flair at Shytown Rubble, And
did you feel he had something to prove?

Speaker 3 (01:16:42):
No, honestly no, no. I think I think the people
that the wrestling fans that watched the business, the fans
that knew me, and the Carolinas. Then when I went
to the WWF in the eighties, had that great match

(01:17:04):
with Savage in eighty seven, I don't think I had
anything to prove. I think, what, well, maybe this is
in a sense of maybe I had something to prove.
I think that when I went back in eighty nine
and had those those championship matches with Flair, was that
maybe the fans and the people were wondering, did I

(01:17:26):
still have it?

Speaker 4 (01:17:27):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:17:28):
Maybe that's what I had to prove. Although that thought
never crossed my mind if I still had it. I
knew I still had it, and it was a pleasure
knowing that I was going to be able to come
back into that company and be able to work with Rick. Wow,
that was I was like, you know, the big gorilla
off my back. This is going to be a breeze.

Speaker 4 (01:17:49):
What are your members of year?

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
Third and final match with Brick was after two.

Speaker 3 (01:17:52):
Of three falls. Yeah. I knew the schedule, the planning,
gonna win the bellt Chicago, have a rematch Dans, and
then drop it back to I knew I was gonna
maybe have it for maybe six months, but I thought
that afterwards after dropping a belt to him, that I

(01:18:13):
was gonna have some rematches. I didn't know that they did.
They worked that angle with Funk right after my match. Yeah,
I didn't know it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
Where did you see yourself with Rick?

Speaker 3 (01:18:26):
Now?

Speaker 4 (01:18:26):
Being so, I think you're a program with Muda, I think.

Speaker 3 (01:18:35):
Luger Bluger. I don't. I didn't. I don't have a
problem with Rick. You know, I know, you know he's
bounced back and forth, back and forth, and you know
it's going to happen. Whether you're working for the company
or not, it's going to happen with him. I didn't
have a problem with that. I don't have a I
don't have a problem with that much of an ego

(01:18:56):
with where I sit with the company. I could be
the second man in the Babyface list, like I was
second man with Dusty. I felt the second, second man
in line with Flair, second man in line, or maybe
second or third, fourth man in line, bouncing back and
forth working with Vince, with Hogan always be number one.

(01:19:16):
So I never had a never had a problem, or
I would never go up to the promoter and say,
you know, why can't you give me the chance to
be number one for your company. I know I've given
the right opportunity that I could. You know, I could
take it and run with it, you know, and work
hard at it. But I didn't have that ego thing.

(01:19:38):
You know. I didn't care if I was second or
third line. I know that if I even though in
in the promoter's eyes, Okay, we got Hogan first. And
then at that time when I first came board, it
was snook up super Fly, and I can't remember that
time I was back in eighty five with some of
the faces. Maybe I was. I came where I was

(01:19:59):
like maybe third or fourth, just happy to be with
the company, happy to go out there and show my work,
happy to also to know that in most cases that
when I went out there and wrestle, usually that night
i'd have the best match of the card. So even
if it so and so and so and so with
first spot is a babyface. You know, I knew that

(01:20:21):
I could most times got there and I'll shine it right.

Speaker 4 (01:20:25):
What are you memberies of some of your matches with
great Mudah.

Speaker 3 (01:20:31):
God, hard worker, God, he'd like to you know, I
don't know. Sometimes these guys know that they get hooked
up with me. They want to go ninety miles an hour.
You know, we don't have to go ninety. We're going
to go forty minutes, sure, but we don't have to
go ninety miles an hour for forty minutes. I'm going
to work a regular mansion. There'll be times in which

(01:20:52):
we have to go ninety babyface making a comeback. Hell,
you got to be there to feed me. But God,
you don't have to go ninety miles now we're doing
a simple leap frog spot or something. Please. You know
we'll be out of cash before the twenty minute market.
There won't be the gas station in sight. You know,
that's a good story that I got with Savage. One
time we were working this is part of the WrestleMania

(01:21:14):
and we were working in Chicago and Hogan was working
on Angle with Orndorf, mister wonderful, and he had worked
an afternoon show in Nasau and they were going to
fly Hogan and Orndorf private jet to Chicago. We were

(01:21:36):
in the locker room and we were the last main event,
and the match after us would have been Hogan on Orendorff.
Well God one of the agents, one of the agents,
black Jack Lanza, right, he says, you guys, you guys

(01:21:56):
got to go out, and we were, you know, he
said savage. He said, if you guys go about twenty minutes,
he said, when I walk out there and you see
me with a pencil in my mouth, time you guys
can go home. Lanza said that. He says, because Hogan
and Order have not arrived. We got the phone call

(01:22:18):
from the air. They're the private jet. They're coming. You
guys are gonna have to go until you see me
walk out there with a pencil in my mouth. It's
just a flimning thing, you see that, My stairs said.
The guy walked all the way from the locker room
up the aisle. He stands about five feet in the rink.

(01:22:40):
Now he's got to stand there until two or three
things happen. The referee season standing there. It's the referee
so caught up in our match. You won't see him.
I happen to see him standing there, or Sandwich or
the referee hapen to see him there staying there. It
gonna be standing there for ten minutes. Ohly no, you know,

(01:23:01):
you know, but the story going. We went like fifty
two minutes, and Savage and I we knew that we had, oh,
a certain amount of time for the WrestleMania match wasn't
going to be We heard it wasn't going to be
any more than twenty minutes. So we're doing our match

(01:23:24):
around the twenty minute mark, you know. So we're going
balls out for twenty minutes. And there's no lands in
thirty minutes, no lands at forty minutes, no lands at
fifty minutes, We're no landed. So I'm like, the fifty
two minute mark, we finally see him. He could have
been standing there for a few minutes, or he just
walked out. We didn't know. Time to go home, Hogan
and Orador for here. We got back to the locker room,

(01:23:47):
I collapsed on the floor because we had done a
twenty minute pace match but went fifty some minutes I
was so deprived of oxygen. I was looking over at Randy.
Randy and I were both laying on the floor in
the locker room. Our skin was blue black of oxygen,
you know, we were blue. Holy when to come in

(01:24:09):
and lock him with steal the pencil in his mouth?
You gt grey, you're very professional.

Speaker 4 (01:24:16):
Oh God, what are some of your memories of Workmantarry funk?

Speaker 3 (01:24:26):
God, mm hmm. His hist you know, he always followed
the baby face, supposed to is always always supposed to
fallow the heel. His match would go from so serious
to where you'd want to kill him because he'd be

(01:24:48):
so stiff with you if he hits you with the chair.
But he didn't care because if you if the opportunity
came back for you to hit him with the chair,
he would nail me back. You know. Sometimes you just
get so pissed off at you know, why did you
hit me in the head with him two by four
like that? My God, feel the nod of my head,

(01:25:10):
you know. And then then sometime during the course of
the match, you'd be laughing. You're you're trying to keep
him laughing in the middle of the ring, you know,
because he'd right and then he'd fall over. You know,
it'd be standing and going then boom, you know, oh god,
I know. I don't know how.

Speaker 4 (01:25:29):
Different was it working with Lex Luger compared to Ric Flair.

Speaker 3 (01:25:35):
You see this lamp post right here, Yeah, this is
Lex Luger. I can't bend this thing, right, like working
with a steel pole and Flair, you know, you know.
But believe it or not, I worked with Lex, literally

(01:25:58):
work with Lex. I'm trying to him prove right, what
would you say, his character, his work style, you know, right.
And he came up to after we had we had
worked in a pay per view in Baltimore and had
a fairly decent match, and believe it or not, and

(01:26:18):
he agreed to the finish. And I think it's because
he just started to gain the respect for me. That's
where he ran out of the ring, chased him up
the up the ramp, you know, I was holding chair
and stuff like that. Yes, he in the often times
whenever I do see me, he says, Man, I'll never
get that Bash eighty nine match. She say, It's one
of the best matches I've had in my life. You know.
But prior to that, no one that was going to

(01:26:40):
be working with liverer at that pay per view that
we'd work from several house shows, and I would help him.
You know, I think body slamming. And after body slamming,
he standing over me. I say, I said, go over.
I said, go work the crowd over in that side
of the ringk go work the crowd. Don't worry. I'll
you know, I'll be here. And finally he'd throw a

(01:27:02):
spot in or something in the right in the middle
of the spot, or I tell him a spot, and
I says, now right, I have to do this. I
want you to go back over to the same side
that you're working that crowd. You never knew how to work.
Be a heel, he just you know, like that, but
work with the people. You know, give me three clothes
lines and then go over there and climb out of

(01:27:23):
the ring and get right up to the barrier and
work that side that you're working. And I would work
with him every night. And when it came to that bash,
you know, the finish, he said, whatever Ricky wants to
do is finally I guess I gained the trust, you know.
But you know, even to this day, he said to me,

(01:27:47):
those couple of months that you and I were. He says,
you taught me so much, you know, and he said,
you know something, stay about. What's really funny is that
you'd never worked a heel in your life, but you
were telling me what to do in the ring as
a as a heel.

Speaker 2 (01:28:00):
We was sting like outside the right they never hung up.

Speaker 3 (01:28:04):
With with Sting. The only way I would know, uh,
Stinger is I said, the ring is like if we're
all gathering at the airport, you know, just running. He's
very cordial, I understand. I understood a lot of times
he traveled by himself or something. He pretty much kept

(01:28:25):
to himself, kept to himself a lot of times in
the locker room too.

Speaker 4 (01:28:29):
Right now, what led you to the part w C W?
Was it with Jim Hurd?

Speaker 2 (01:28:33):
Contract negotiations and basically yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:28:36):
Eighty nine?

Speaker 2 (01:28:37):
Yeah, and you wound up going back to events? Yeah,
how did you feel that? Well, how did you feel
about doing the fire blowing gimmick?

Speaker 3 (01:28:48):
I mean, were you.

Speaker 4 (01:28:48):
Against doing that?

Speaker 3 (01:28:57):
If my memory serves me correct, Robert, I think that
Vince and going back at that time, was that ninety one?

Speaker 2 (01:29:05):
Yeah, yeah, with the with the dragon caught you know,
do you think it was punishment.

Speaker 3 (01:29:12):
Well, let me let me say this. First, they had
an art lady, and everybody was at that time was
e Vince was coming into the age of customing. And
she had this art lady was drawing, you know, had
the picture of me and doing this dragon with the
wings and the tail and everything, and on paper it

(01:29:34):
really looked cool, it really did. But she got to
making it up in this damn rabbit rubber rabbit tail.
That damn thing must have weighed a hundred pounds, you know.
It was dragging down the down the allway. And the
wings weren't bad, wings were okay. But I I, if

(01:29:55):
my memory serves me correct, I was going to do
the fire breathing stuff, just on the big shows, the
pay per views and stuff like that. And I Vin
saw it the first time, and he saw what it
looked like on TV, especially they turn off the house
lights and all of a sudden, from the top boat,
I could really I was really getting good at it,

(01:30:16):
really shooting a blast. It'd be shooting, it'd be out
there ten feet you know. He liked it so much.
Did he convince me? It says Away, Convincing people for
the betterment of the company betterment of the show to
do it every night all the house shows no. And
if you knew what you're doing, if you knew what
to do it, I was. He sent me down to

(01:30:38):
Florida to a carnival act and there was a guy
that was blowing fire. He set up in a shopping
center parking lot in one of those small time carniacts.
Called him up and I think Pritchard went with me,
and the guy was a big Ricky steamboat fan. He says,

(01:30:59):
you want me to teach He was a young kid,
he was like twenty five. He's been doing it for
since he was fifteen ten years. You want me to
teach Ricky Steven out a blow fire so he can
do it, I'll be happy to him. Be happy. So
they sent me down there and they had not put
the big top up the big tent well of the
biggest tenth that they had for the parking lot, right,

(01:31:21):
and he was so excited about showing me how to
do it. It was kerosene. You put kerosene in your mouth.
He lit his torch and we're standing out in the
parking lot and it's a little windy that day, little windy.
We're down there in Florida, and it's a little windy,
a little breezy, and he's watching his torch and he's
watching which way the flames are going. It's what's you
want to do if he wants the wind to be
coming from his back blown away from him right. And

(01:31:44):
just as he got that torch and he stuck it,
you know, you stick it about oh a foot from
your mouth and you blow the kerosene to the fire
in which ignites it. Just as he blew, the wind
shifted and he blew everything back in his face. Now
this guy is running around the park lit this with
his face on fire. Carose he sprayed back in his

(01:32:05):
face and he's running padding it out. Okay, finally he
gets it out. And I look over at Pritchard and
I said, this guy's approbate. This guy's been doing it
for ten years. Now. You expect in a day to
teach me, and then I'm going to be doing this
at that time for the big shows. I said, look

(01:32:28):
at him running around out there in the parking lot
with his face and fire. I said, this is ridiculous.
I'm not going to do this. And he came back
and what was his name? I think his name was
Bill something. I don't know. It's everything's cool, everything, Look,
look see everything's fine, everything's cool. Well, the next day
he had all these big water blisters all over the fact,
you know, just just red. But he taught me how

(01:32:52):
to do it. I didn't like the idea of having
to do it every night, and I didn't mind doing
it for the big shows. But what the heck I
got doing it every naight?

Speaker 4 (01:33:01):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:33:04):
Was it an insult?

Speaker 1 (01:33:04):
Do you think that your place on opening matches again
after you just came off with incredible matches with her Clair?

Speaker 3 (01:33:09):
Yeah? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:33:12):
What was relationship like with vis at the time? Was
it basically just business as usual?

Speaker 3 (01:33:17):
And you know, well I had thought that that was
in ninety one. You know, had flown up to Connecticut
on two occasions, stand up some meeting at his house, right,
and I thought we were you know, we buried the
hatchet and shook hands. He promised me a main event spot.

(01:33:38):
I understood that. Coming back to the company, he said,
I'm going to start you off here and build you
back up. It should probably take about three months. Well
here it was ten months later. Well, but I'm still
doing opening matches. And after three months. I would go
to Vitsa say, well, we're going to do a little

(01:33:59):
little little angle, a little program or something, you know.
He said, Ricky, we're gonna do it next TV. Well
two weeks later, we did you know, TV come around?
Asked him, So you know, every two weeks that asked
him after the third month, and then went into the
tenth month, and I just just call him up. Where

(01:34:20):
it was. I think I was flying from Charlotte. I
think we landed somewhere in the Midwest. It might have
been Kansas City or Saint Louis. I got off the plane,
went to a pay phone and called him up and
gave my two weeks notice, got back on the plane
and finished my commitment for the two weeks.

Speaker 4 (01:34:40):
So there's never ever talk of putting you on Savage
back together for a program or anything. And the flag
came into I think it.

Speaker 3 (01:34:46):
Was right, and he had told me. He said, God
damn steamboat, he said, just when I get my butt
up there with the w w F, Evince you leave.

Speaker 1 (01:34:55):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (01:34:58):
What was the difference between the two hours when were
there the first time compared to the second time? What
differences were there?

Speaker 3 (01:35:07):
Oh? Well, you know, funny, you asked that question, Rob,
because that was immediately brought to my attention with my
meetings events. Oh right, we are a much different company.
And it's ninety one. You know, we are a much
different company now. We are much more professional. All those
things that we didn't know what we were doing in

(01:35:27):
the eighties, we are completely ironed out. Everything's working like clockwork.
You know. You know, I've got my people in the
right place. It's just so much smoother now, you'll see.
You know, I don't know I was. I was never
privy to being on the inside of that company. Ninety
nine percent of the wrestlers were always on the outside.

(01:35:48):
Are on the outside looking man. You don't know how
this mechanical difficulty was this or that. I really didn't
see that much of a difference.

Speaker 2 (01:35:58):
Did you see Sean Michael's as a future Stark? Did
you see coming up?

Speaker 3 (01:36:05):
Hmhmm, all right. My immediate gut was I was surprised
to see him as Vince's number one guy world champion.

(01:36:26):
I didn't know Sean that well. The question that always
came to me was, I'm wondering if he could pull
it off.

Speaker 2 (01:36:38):
Fans.

Speaker 3 (01:36:41):
I guess in due time he proved to me that
he could. But at the beginning I was surprised, at
shocked and and hand in the back of my mind,
could he pull it off?

Speaker 4 (01:36:52):
What are your members of some of your matches with Red,
I think that was like the last guy you worked with, left.

Speaker 3 (01:36:58):
Hard worker, very opinionated, kind of that kind of to
where he'd liked things done his way many times. I
didn't mind. I had a good business sense, okay, but
a lot on some situations you would have to take

(01:37:21):
a deep breath and just just take a back door
that if you on this situation, he wanted it done
this way. Bottom line, he was looking out for Rude. Okay,
he was looking out for Rick Rude. I knew it.
I felt that no sense arguing about it, because you're
not going to get anywhere trying to trying to change it.
You know, if it was a situation that he came

(01:37:43):
up with that presented something to do with me or
maybe something to do with us, it could be changeable.
But if it was something that he wanted to do
in the ring or in the course of a matter
of pay per view show, or something that you knew
in your heart that this is a Rick Rude thing.

(01:38:04):
You have no chance in help. I'm getting a changed, right.
It's going to be step by step, this little, this
little scenario. You know.

Speaker 4 (01:38:13):
Now, I heard from other people that man claims that
one of the reasons that you left w F is
because you didn't want to do a job to the Undertaker.
Is there any truth to that at all?

Speaker 3 (01:38:23):
I could I could see Vince saying it that way
when I gave my notice. I told you, I stepped
off the plane, got back on, gave my notice. My
last shot was a TV shots and Mike Rotunda right,
what was he the irs? They're filming two shows at

(01:38:52):
TV and in both shows, one to work with the
I r S, the other work with the Undertaker. Both
shows they wanted to They wanted me to do a
stretcher job, carry me out in the stretcher, and I
said no to that. I said, I didn't have a problem.

(01:39:15):
I said, I'll put Mike over in the middle. I'll
put my shoulders down. I said, I'll put my shoulders
down for the Undertaker right in the middle. But number one, Vince,
if you do a stretcher job, and I don't know
which guy I was working with first, Rotundo or Undertaker,
but if I do a stretcher job in the first

(01:39:35):
hour and the place is sold out. You got twenty
thousand people here, and you see they take me out
in the stretcher. What are they going to think of
our business? Because it had not gotten all that kind
of exposure like it's been getting, you know, in the
last five years. This was ninety one. What would what
would they think if they saw Steamboat get back in

(01:39:58):
the ring for the second hour, just right, twenty minutes
earlier he got taken out of a stretcher. You know,
I'm not wanting to do that to the business. And
I sort of also said it this way as maybe
it would help Vince persuade it would help persuade him.
And I also said, I wouldn't want to do it

(01:40:18):
to your company. A little shot there, you know, like
but a logical one, right, I wouldn't want to do
it to your company. Then it's got you know, But
I said, I'll put my shoulders down in the middle
for him. Anyway you want, one two to three beat me,
next hour, one two to three beat me. I'm not
going to do stretcher job.

Speaker 2 (01:40:38):
When you left, was it on good terms or no?

Speaker 3 (01:40:40):
The Identaty said, if you're not going to do stretcher jobs,
you're terminated right now, get out of here. Leave. I said, okay,
that's pretty much it.

Speaker 4 (01:40:49):
Yeah, how'd you wind up getting back into ww phone call? Yeah,
memories of teaming with Dustin Roots.

Speaker 3 (01:40:59):
That's good kid. Yeah, try to get along with everybody.
Very conscious about his work. Worked very very, very very
very hard. I think in the in the back of
his mind he always felt that he had some shoes
to feel like his dad. But you know, his dad
was limited in what he could do in the ring dustiness.
As young as he was, he already was destined. You

(01:41:22):
could see that he was going to be a good worker.
I think, Yeah, what was the relationship with Bill Lotts?
A lot of respect for each other. Respected, but you
know he respected me, kind of nice, felt good respected Bill.

(01:41:42):
Bill was you know, basically from the from the old school.
You know, he got it.

Speaker 4 (01:41:47):
He got a time.

Speaker 3 (01:41:47):
You know, he wanted baby Faces in the Hill to
be separate. And I think there were times that even
in booking flights, if there was enough flights going to
a particular city, backup flights, he would have heels maybe
going on at eight o'clock fight the babyface is going
on at nine point thirty. You know, very protective of
the business. Do not ride with each other. Be careful

(01:42:08):
even if you're being seen at the gym working at
the same time with each other. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:42:15):
What are some of your memories of your series with
Barry Wyndham and Arn Anderson?

Speaker 3 (01:42:20):
Yeah? I love Arn A great worker, also a good
guy if you're if you're his friend, you know, he's
another guy that will go to bad for you. I
could give Arn a call. Let's say, Arnie, I'm stuck
here in Baltimore, I need some help. He would find

(01:42:40):
a way. He would one of those type of guys. Great,
a lot of fun, good psychology. You know, he's a
good worker, great, you know, good timing, got a great
mind for the business, good finish man. A lot of
guys in the locker room if they were having a trouble,
having a problem putting a finished together, aren't would do this,

(01:43:01):
this and this and that light bulb would come on.
I guess, gee, why don't we think of that? You know, thanks,
just great mind.

Speaker 4 (01:43:11):
How about actor shack remembers of working with Cactus.

Speaker 3 (01:43:16):
You know, every time you bring up these names. I
always get the I get the feeling that every single
one of these guys would go to bat for me,
every single one of these guys would work their ass
off for me. You know, Cactus the same way. But
you know, he's a off camera he's a great guy anyway,

(01:43:36):
right right, And but you know they I don't know
why that's you know, I know, my reputation or whatever.
It's just, oh, I'm working with Steambap for the next
couple of months. Oh god, great, you know, you know,
but that's a good feeling, you know, that's that's a
real good feeling round. I know.

Speaker 5 (01:43:57):
I I ride you know, worad with guys for so
many years and they you know, they get in the
car and they're sitting in the back seat and they say, hey, Steamer,
what I had to go to the office today.

Speaker 3 (01:44:08):
They told me I'm going to be working with so
and so and so and so. Oh Jesus, do I
dread this? You know? That's that's the other that's the
other side of the coin, right, you know, how do.

Speaker 2 (01:44:20):
You wind up getting careed of the Sheene Douglas? How
did that come about?

Speaker 3 (01:44:31):
Mm hmm? Okay, you know that, you know, Shane. I'm
pretty sure Shane didn't didn't go to the you know,
go to the office that would you consider or take

(01:44:53):
a take into consideration to team me up with Steamboat.
I know I didn't. I think maybe the company was
just looking at just a couple of babyfaces that make
up a good babyface tag team. Right. Yeah. We had
a lot of fun with Shane too. He would he
would always tell me, he says, God, I learned so
much from you tonight and said, what are you talking about?

(01:45:14):
He said, believe it or not. When I'm standing in
the apron, I'm like, huh, watching how you work, you know,
and watching God, look at that facial express Wow, why
did he move his leg that way? Oh? Man, look
at Oh look at the way he's moving his He
tell me that we'd be riding back or something, you know.
And then after I found out that he was so attentive,

(01:45:35):
then we started. Then I started doing more. He still
watched me work in the ring, but then we'd start
doing like classroom stuff on the way home in the
car if we had a hundred mile trip or to
a mound trip or so. Then we start talking about timing,
ring psychology that aspect of the business and got it.
And Shane's a bright guy. I mean, he's intelligent, you know.

(01:45:59):
He he's a smart cookie. He's got a good IQ,
so he picked up things very well, very well. Him
and I still talk, you know, every couple of months
or so when they call each other. I would have
to say that he probably calls me more than I
do return his calls. And whenever they were coming into
Charlotte to film TVs, he'd always call me ahead of

(01:46:20):
time and we'd always meet for dinner. You know, I
could probably Robert, I could probably tell you on the
thousands of russels that I've met over my entire career.
I could probably just give you a handful five on
guys that I could say that were truly there for me.

(01:46:42):
You know what a nip and tuck business is, backstab
and you know who can talk behind who's back to
get that position. It's probably just a handful of guys.
Change one of them, Orange, one of them. The key
to is one of them. You know, guys that I
know that if I was in trouble, they're just a

(01:47:03):
phone call away. You know, Player's one of them too.

Speaker 2 (01:47:08):
What do your remembers of series with Steve Boston Brian.

Speaker 3 (01:47:11):
They see the same I give you the same answer.
It was great. Everybody had their own style and it
was sometimes it was very refreshing if you're working with
one group of guys and then all of a sudden
you're finding out you're going to be working with another
pair of guys. I'll tell you a story. We were
wrestling up in northern Georgia, a little spot show. Might

(01:47:34):
have been eighteen hundred people, two thousand people in this
We were either in a high school gym or an armory,
but anyway, we were down below the basement was where
the locker rooms were, and they had the heels of
the babyface to separate. And we didn't know this, but
during the intermission it came out and it made an
announcement that ladies and gentlemen, about two thousand people there,

(01:47:56):
Ladies and gentlemen, if you want to be able to
make it home, leave now. There is a blizzard coming in.
Now we're sitting down in the locker room. Only one
main event, which was us. It was Shane and I
against Pilman and Austin didn't know about the announcement nothing,

(01:48:19):
you know, all the other guys. Of course, as soon
as they finished their mash, they showered up and left,
So we're just sitting there during the intermission. After the intermission,
we knew that place was sold out. We go out there.
There are twelve people sitting in this place and they're
all from the same family, sitting in that one ringside row.

(01:48:41):
Why because their house was across the street from the building, right,
and we what we walked out it was a morgue. Right,
the place is empty. There's just twelve people sitting in
this one row. What is going on and the references here?

(01:49:01):
Nobody said Shane and I have been sitting down there
in that basement by ourselves, in the dark through the
intermission and everything. What's going on? I said, well, there's
a big blizzard in here. Now you're kidding. No. They
came over the intermission and made the announcement. Everybody left
went home except for this family right here, and they
said they.

Speaker 2 (01:49:19):
Live across the street.

Speaker 3 (01:49:22):
Well, this just tells you this is who we are.
Shane and I and Pilman and Austin. We're in front
of those twelve people at family of twelve. We went
out there and wrestled for forty minutes. We had a
blast the flow of the match, and that's what I'm saying.
That's the part that I missed. You get into a

(01:49:42):
match that it's just so much fun. We had all
seriousness involved, we had a couple of laughter things involved,
but it was that's the time of the whole deal
that makes it all worthwhile.

Speaker 4 (01:49:53):
You know, do you think that series of matches ended prematurely?

Speaker 3 (01:50:00):
Ah? No, you know detected with Shane and I and pilling.
It also what.

Speaker 2 (01:50:05):
Happened the night of the paper you I guess we're
your teams with broad arm phone to the mask.

Speaker 4 (01:50:11):
It was the cage match.

Speaker 3 (01:50:16):
God, I'm lost with that one.

Speaker 2 (01:50:17):
I think it's when Sheen.

Speaker 1 (01:50:19):
Left the company or you machine was going to be
there and they they had broadward the mask pretending.

Speaker 3 (01:50:24):
To be sen Oh yeah, I think it was.

Speaker 2 (01:50:30):
Maybe it was Thoms.

Speaker 3 (01:50:33):
Diablos, that's right. I thought that you bring it back
to bringing my life uber started back. I thought that
was so damn goofy shot. I didn't want to get
involved with that.

Speaker 2 (01:50:50):
Now when you wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (01:50:52):
When pick bros And God, if you want, I asked you,
was it anytimes in my career had some embarrassing moments.
That was one of us walking out there with the
Cuckardi got this gimmick Kawahian guy wearing this Mexican sombarrows
from man.

Speaker 4 (01:51:12):
Oh Man, what do you remembers working with Vader?

Speaker 3 (01:51:17):
Oh m hm man, canna watch out for Vader stuff. Yeah,
good guy though, his big heart. I mean, if he
likes it, he takes the bullet for you, you know
it really would he take the bullet for you. He
jump in front. But and it's not Vader's fault. You know.

(01:51:40):
He played professional football for the Rams. You know, he
was a center to he blew his knee out. But
you know, you know, to play any kind of professional sport,
it takes that little bit of extra edge, a little
bit of more testosterone, you know, whatever it is. He

(01:52:02):
would he would get caught up in a match and
he would tell me, he said, Ricky, I've never ever
seen anything like it. When I'm working with you. I
get to work with so and so and so, but
working with you, these people when to kill me. You
know this then out there threatening me with the knives
and stuff and holding chairs up. They want to you know,

(01:52:23):
it's just because the way I was selling for me
a big four hundred and fifty pounds man kicking your
buttle over the ring, you know. And I had my
occasional fighting back and give a little what I call
hope spots and stuff like that. But the problem with
Vader is that he would get so wrapped up in
it adrenaline rush. I mean, his eyes would turn red
like the devil would possess him, and then he'd really

(01:52:44):
want to start nailing it right. You know, that's cool it.
Calm down, Calm down, please, you know, you come and
give you the big Vader in the corner and just
kill your big splash off the top rope. And here's
a guy four hundred pounds doing this hat hipoff thing. Yeah, incredible.
Would you'd be scared for your life, especially if you

(01:53:05):
got into that mindset. Oh click, oh doctor Jacko, mister Hyde,
look out, he's kind of you know, and you really
really had to look out.

Speaker 4 (01:53:16):
What happened of your last match again, Steve Auson? Was
it Lancaster, California, Virginia?

Speaker 3 (01:53:22):
I heard my back in Roanoke. But I finished the
rest of the tour, which was probably about another three
dates or something like that after that, and all we
did for those three days was just walk and talk,
just did a lot of walking and talking to finish up.

Speaker 2 (01:53:40):
Basically, had like two months stuff on your contract.

Speaker 3 (01:53:42):
At the end of the time and.

Speaker 4 (01:53:43):
They just released you or something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:53:44):
Was they terminated me. You did for the company too, Yeah,
you know, I just and the boys couldn't believe it.
They said, God, Ricky, you know, we've got a lot
of dickheads in the in the business. You know, they're
out for a whole year, yet there they're still getting
the money each each week from the company. You know,

(01:54:04):
whether they can't do this or they hurt their elbow
or something. And here it is. You weren't You weren't
a dickhead to these guys, and you only had two
months and you said all the years you put in
for him, and I got hurt. I felt like why
because I really, I really hurt on the job working
for your company. They just I'll never forget the word

(01:54:28):
they use was terminated the terminator. I got terminated. And
that was another one of those kind of moments in
which you kind of your heart was it was hurt,
and your gut would just twist.

Speaker 4 (01:54:43):
You know, you're the US champion.

Speaker 2 (01:54:45):
I think at the time. How do you feel about
them advertising for a pay per.

Speaker 4 (01:54:49):
View that they knew that you were not going to
be as well.

Speaker 3 (01:54:53):
You know, I think anybody in the business. Yeah, that's
the names of the business. But then it's also wrong
to do that. You're swerving the fan. It hurts the company,
but it also hurts me. You know, it's just the
credibility of Ricky Steam. But with a note show on
a pay per view?

Speaker 2 (01:55:10):
Could you come back and.

Speaker 3 (01:55:13):
Let's say a job was working, they're do an opening match,
maybe a job was working another job and they would
come back to the locker room and he came up
to me and he said, got for gid. I said
what he says, Well, this one fan got all over
me out there. So the first time it's ever happened.
And she told me is because this past weekend I
worked with you on TV and I almost beat you.

Speaker 6 (01:55:33):
You know, he said, God, it was great. Had nothing
to do with the guy that I was working with.
You know, she hated my guess because I almost beat
you last week on TV. You know, that's that's you know,
said some of the stuff that's being missed in our business.

Speaker 3 (01:55:47):
You know, yeah, that's.

Speaker 4 (01:55:52):
If you were able to, could you come back for
at least one more match?

Speaker 3 (01:55:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:55:54):
Really?

Speaker 3 (01:55:55):
Yeah? Yeah, heartbeat?

Speaker 4 (01:55:58):
I mean, are you physically up for you now?

Speaker 3 (01:56:00):
My back is.

Speaker 4 (01:56:01):
Killing me, That's what That's what my question was, would
you be able to actually step back in the ring
today and wrestle one more match?

Speaker 3 (01:56:10):
I couldn't do the way Steamboat used to work right,
very very limited on my bumps and stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:56:16):
You know, if you could come back one more time,
who would have been able? Right?

Speaker 3 (01:56:20):
Yeah? Yeah, people, I get that question. Asked to two
favorite matches, Savage of Flair, right, come back work with
Savager Flair. It's Flair. Yeah, I think I could still
do if I had a little rim more ring time,
like two or three weeks, I think him and I
can still do an hour would be the speed wouldn't

(01:56:43):
be I think the intensity would would maybe be there, definitely,
our hearts would because we're just so competitive with each
other about when we work with each other. I think
the amazing factor is that if he did do it,
we went out there for an hour, everybody in the
wrestling world would just being would be in ah, the
fact that we did an hour.

Speaker 2 (01:57:03):
You know what, who are some of the guys that
you still keep in touch with.

Speaker 3 (01:57:09):
Since Shane speak to Flair maybe three or four times
a year. God what is his name out of Atlanta
used to be a black referee. Then it was Teddy Long.
I believe this or not, Guys, out of all the

(01:57:30):
guys that I told you, I know throughout the years
of wrestling, he's the only one that calls me Christmas
Day in which she's being a Merry Christmas Teddy Long.
Of course a lot of the guys. Christmas Day is
a big wrestling day, but most of the times it's
it's been very local, so the guys at least has

(01:57:52):
been half of the day at home. You know, he's
the only one to call. And I get that phone
call every Christmas morning. And last year I was out
working and I was blowing leaves off the patio and
I remember Richie says, telephone Dad. I knew who it was.
He has not missed a lick for god less. Well,

(01:58:16):
I know the last five years that I've been out
of the business. The last fight, I said, you know, Teddy,
damn you. He says, You're the only guy that calls me.
You know, And he says, he says I'll never forget
your steamer. I went to bat for him one time.
You know, they're going to get rid of them or something,
either in the manager capacity, and I got him to

(01:58:39):
hang on to be a referee or get rid of
him as a referee capacity, and I got him to
hang on to put him in the manager but I
got him to be able to stay with the company,
and from that things got better for him, and his
paycheck's got better. And he says, he said, I'll never
forget you went to bad. I didn't really go as bad, honestly, Teddy.
Not honestly, I didn't really know. I just put in

(01:59:02):
a couple of good words for you and just let
it go from there. And I guess they took that
into consideration.

Speaker 4 (01:59:07):
Have you ever been approaching the book any of them?

Speaker 3 (01:59:10):
No, No, we'd want to either. Was that? Yah? I
think I think for so many years my work ethics
are so etched in stone that I would maybe have
a problem with with I would I'd like for it
to be done this way. We would like for it
to be done this way, and it's just not going

(01:59:31):
to get done this way.

Speaker 4 (01:59:33):
What are your thoughts on today's wrestling in the current product.

Speaker 3 (01:59:38):
I feel for the guys, even even the guys that
are in with the major companies on a full time basis.
The newer guys, especially not the Rock or or Triple
H or those guys. You know, they were around when
I was around. Okay, maybe I'm five or ten years

(02:00:00):
to them, but they understood the timing and that these
newer guys that are coming into the business, it's hard
for them to go out there and show ring psychology
and timing when in today's businesses a lot of it
is just give for TV and pay per view. You're
limited to what seven, eight, nine, ten minutes at the
most in a match. It isn't like you can go

(02:00:22):
to the house shows every night and you put in
your twenty and thirty. And that's that's the major difference
that I see is that this talent, this generation of
new talent, as the Flares and the Savages and the
brett Harts, as we passed the torch to this generation
of workers, they truly are not going to be able

(02:00:44):
to experience the art form of what it means to
no timing is right to do this, as timing is
right for the babyface to start getting make us comeback.
Timing is right for the heel to start getting some heat,
you know, ringscology. And I try to explain this to
the guys that I'm talking to at this wrestling seminar

(02:01:05):
that I'm doing this workshop, that you'll understand what psychology
is about. And psychology plays a major factor on the
flow of the match, you know, even to this day.
And I used this yesterday. I said, baby Face working
with the heel, baby Face working on the arm, working

(02:01:26):
on the arm, working on do a couple of nice
spots off the arm, get back on the arm. The
heel stops you just for a second. Does you in
the turnbuckle? Tells you to move right? Babyface goes in
the turn buckle. Here comes the heel. He charges with
the big knee. You move out of the way. He
goes down. Right. What does the Babyface do? He goes

(02:01:49):
to the lake. Now, all that first three or four
minutes that he's working on his arm and coming off
with nice spots off the arm and all this kind
of stuff, working hard on on it. Shit can it?
Because now you went to his knee, you know, And
then I guess if you keep continue working the leg,
and let's say you do a spot in which the

(02:02:13):
guy the heel bends over for a backdrop, and you
do it like you know, a faceboll What are you
going to do? Go to the headlock? Yeah, you see right,
the lost the guy's going. Yeah, we see that all.
Even in today's major venue, the WWF, you see this
with some of the talent the earlier match the guys
that are not the main event. But you have to

(02:02:34):
think that the company has taking enough time to look
at these guys and say they're good enough, they know enough,
and now we can feature on our show. Well I
look at that and I go I pick it apart,
you know, and I see this. Why did you work
to the your arm? I oh no, no, jeez. The
guy comes with the big knee, Get back in the arm.

(02:02:55):
Get back in the arm, because everybody that is watching
from relate it's baby face smart enough to get back
on that arm. Why because you just spent three or
four minutes working the heck out of it. Oh shit,
he grabbed the leg. What are you doing? You know?
Now you're starting from all over again to try and
tell the story. If the art form is being lost
out there and it's not these guys' fault. It's just

(02:03:18):
that they haven't had they don't have the opportunity to
work the way we used to work.

Speaker 4 (02:03:21):
You know, all different you know towns and different guys.

Speaker 3 (02:03:24):
Well, how about the different territories, Right, you could work
Florida territory and you go out there and watch the match,
and you would watch all these different characters, right, and
you'd work that territory for a year. Next thing, you know,
you go to Texas and you watch those guys work. Wow,
everybody has their own style, you know. Basically everything's the

(02:03:46):
same and backdrops and backdrop and arm drags, non drag,
thing off the top ropes, thing off the top rope.
It's all the same. But it's the body language, just
the movement that makes everything so different. Don't you think,
well that you've got a card of nine matches, everything's

(02:04:07):
the same in all the matches. But why do we
have why do we have a card of nine matches
a variety of different health right, because everybody has their
own little character, right, everybody's developed. But when this guy
throw this guy's in for a backup, The same thing
happens in the second match, same thing happens in the
third match. Fundamentally, the mechanics of the business stays pretty

(02:04:29):
much the same top to bottom.

Speaker 4 (02:04:30):
The characters where they sell, right, Yeah, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:04:34):
But that's and you only get that through ring time
and stuff like that. And I think a lot of
that is going to be hard to for these youngers,
this generation to understand. They are so wrapped up in
everything being so choreographed, NonStop boom boom boom boom boom
boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom. Yeah.
But if you look at the show prior to the

(02:04:58):
Triple H's or the Raw and Undertaker and Mankind, you know,
and those guys, right, but everything prior to those guys,
all their stuff, it's all the same and before like
I said earlier, you can have a nine card, nine
match lineup on the card and it would be all different.
But you know, on the big major show, there'll be

(02:05:19):
two or three matches that they're all identical.

Speaker 4 (02:05:23):
True.

Speaker 2 (02:05:25):
What have your thoughts on David Flair?

Speaker 4 (02:05:27):
Have you seen any of them?

Speaker 2 (02:05:31):
Do you think they should have kept.

Speaker 1 (02:05:32):
Them off TV for a while, sent him to a
small territory, then brought him on TV and.

Speaker 3 (02:05:36):
W CW well, you know, I don't know what they
did with him prior to bringing him on w c W.

Speaker 1 (02:05:45):
I think they were using for one time and then
and then I guess the company of the office like them,
they wanted to keep him on TV, but I think
he actually he wanted to actually take himself off TV
to work some small territories first and.

Speaker 3 (02:05:56):
Learn the business, learned how to work. I didn't, to
be honest with you, you know, in the last couple
of years, I never watched maybe Channel Surfing and a
Monday night Raw would come on and I'd watch it
for a few minutes. But then I didn't watch a
whole lot of wrestling because what I just said, the
business in the art form is not is being lost

(02:06:16):
and it's just become a high spot show. But the
few times that I've caught and David Flair on, I
was really surprised that they would let him on there,
especially Rick would let his son on there. Understanding the
work ethic of Flair, he is such a professional when
it comes to working in the match, working in the ring,

(02:06:37):
dropping the knee on your forehead, just such a professional.
But I was surprised that he would let his son
with as much ring time as his sons head go
out there and be on national television. I didn't know.
You just told me that David was the one that
actually wanted to pull himself off TV, go work a
territory to learn. That's very commendable because in today's world,

(02:07:00):
guys that want to get on TV I get that paycheck,
they can't even work, you know. They want to get
on pay me first and I'll learn about working later.
David Flair, which is the opposite attitude, I don't want
to go out and work, you know. And understanding that
he's coming from a background of the of Rick Flair,
that's his dad. But I I just if that was true,

(02:07:22):
I can't understand why that maybe, yeah, well it could
be very well true. I just if that was If
that was true, I don't understand why Rick just wouldn't
put his foot down and say, hey, give my boy,
let's put him out there for two or three months.
I mean, whatever you have in mind to do with him,
it can wait a couple of months. But he needs
to get some ring.

Speaker 1 (02:07:40):
Time in, you know, for the company folded, they actually
sending down to a territory aside or something.

Speaker 2 (02:07:47):
So I don't know your thought on The Rock.

Speaker 3 (02:07:54):
I don't know The Rock very well. I've met him
on a few occasions. I know that he is his dad,
Rocky Johnson's son. I don't even I don't know The

(02:08:15):
Rock well enough. I try to judge people as I
know him off camera. I only really know him as
what wrestling fans see him. I would think that he's
an okay guy, you know. I think he's doing a
hell of a job. He has a good fan presence
about him, and he knows how to work the people,

(02:08:35):
you know. I think his interviews are great, Okay, well,
Rusty Austin, I'm glad for Steve. Really, I haven't talked
much with him, but I remember Austin when hit in
the WCW days, right, you know, probably, I don't know,
making seventy five thousand a year, fifteen dred a week,

(02:08:56):
you know, right, And this is when he was with
Pilman Tag Team. All right, and look what look what
he's making now, right? Yeah, he's hard worker, hard worker.

Speaker 4 (02:09:08):
Were you shocked and you heard about the deaths of
Brian Pillman and record?

Speaker 3 (02:09:14):
Yeah? Yeah, and I didn't what did what did Pilman?
The heard his ankle, you got the wreck or something? Yeah, huh.

Speaker 7 (02:09:30):
Yeah, And then he was on a lot of paint
pills and trying to I think the boys were saying,
maybe came back a little too early and then drinking
some drinking and alcohol mixing with the paint pills.

Speaker 3 (02:09:42):
And what did him in? I do the the Pilman
memorial thing was less aturate. I think this yearold be
my fourth one coming up this I think it's August. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:09:58):
Is your son of Preston Fenimal or no?

Speaker 4 (02:10:00):
No race cars?

Speaker 3 (02:10:02):
Racing cars, loves it.

Speaker 2 (02:10:07):
Is there anyone that you saw coming up that you
thought had a world of potential but never made it?

Speaker 3 (02:10:16):
All? Right? Let men, I'll try and answer, but let
me get back. He said, you know, my son was
he of a wrestling fan. No racing cars. Yes, uh,
he loves watch stance car racing. But what is funny,
what is peculiar, is that when his buddies, okay, they
all watch wrestling, they all love the rock, you know,
and Steve Austin and here's my son that doesn't. And

(02:10:36):
they look over at me and he said, but your
Dan's ricky steamboat and you don't watch you know, how
do you figure this out, you know, right, I guess
because I don't watch it, and I have my my
own personal reasons because just become a bump city type
of Now if if if Triple H is on when
I'm channel surfing, or The Rocks on when I'm channel surfing,

(02:10:58):
or like, I watched that match, the last match on
the Last Show with the Flair and Sting. You know,
they're doing some stuff. It couldn't Bet Flair wearing a
T shirt. And I said, oh, come on, guy, you
got a little chubby, so what you know, it's your
last You're fifty seven years old, it's your last match.
But I'll stand and watch that and I'll sort of
just hang on and see what's coming on next. And

(02:11:19):
if it's just a couple of young kids with just
and I am sure they worked their asshole, they work
their hearts out and they're going as hard as they
can go, trying to make a point here, but it
just doesn't interest me, so then I'll flip it. But
that's it. It's funny with the kids that they they
love watching them guys. You know, but who who is
a god?

Speaker 4 (02:11:41):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (02:11:51):
I don't know. I'm going back a few years a
guy that comes to my mind is the Guerrero's you know,
I know, travel with the oldest brother. You know who's
it now?

Speaker 2 (02:11:59):
Hector Eddie.

Speaker 3 (02:12:01):
Eddie said with w w F right now, and he said.

Speaker 2 (02:12:03):
I think his brother just got signed maybe well known deal.

Speaker 3 (02:12:06):
Yeah, yeah, you know the girl. You know, they do
some of them Mexican stuff, which is good, high flying,
high spot stuff, but they have americanized right right, yeah? Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:12:17):
Are you surprised at how open the businesses today?

Speaker 3 (02:12:20):
Yeah, m but it hasn't. You can't dispute their numbers,
can you. I mean, WWF paid for view numbers, TV numbers.

Speaker 2 (02:12:34):
Are you disappointed that you never had a major run
as a deal?

Speaker 3 (02:12:38):
Yes? Really? I I think it was in ninety one
I talked with Pat Patterson. With Vince, I didn't talk
with Vince. I talked with Pat right and I said, Pat,
you know I've been in the I think at that
time I've been in the business for maybe like around
fifteen years, sixteen years. I said, you know, I have

(02:13:00):
never worked heeled. I've always been a babyface. I feel
myself starting to get stale, you know, I said, Pat,
You've worked both ways. Flares work both ways. I mean,
there's so many guys that have worked both ways. And
I said, also, going through that time in my career
in ninety one, wearing that Dragon's outfit, doing opening matches,

(02:13:23):
being promised the main event spot, never coming up on
and on, maybe I was searching for a different excuse
to do something different, just to help please Rick, you
know steamboat, I said, I want to work a program
or something as a heel before I finished my career,
just so I can one time just tell that person

(02:13:43):
in the front road to shut up and sit down,
you know, instead of looking at him and giving him
the thumbs up. And you know she see it. But
but you know, Pat looked at me and he said,
you know something, Ricky, you have been through, the companies
that you've worked for, and the TV exposure that you've had,

(02:14:07):
and the fans that you have. You could go out there,
let's say, at that time with Brett Hart one of
my nice questions, yeah, and take a chainsaw and cut
his head off on TV. And the fans wouldn't believe it.
They just you are a babyface and always will be here.

(02:14:28):
This is Pat Patterson and never ever you'll ever work
a heel. And he said, I'm also telling you don't
if you ever leave this company to go work for
don't ever try to work as a hell. It's just
there's so many things in our business that we can
do variables with, right, he said, And everybody's a lot
of people are smart to the business and this and
that and on and on and on. But don't work

(02:14:49):
as a heel, because he says he thought it would
hurt my career more than anything. I never got the chance.
How many guys you know that work a good length
of time. I'm not just talking about guys that maybe
stayed in business for two years or three years or
five years, that started off either as a heel or
a baby and stayed that way through fifteen or twenty years.

Speaker 4 (02:15:11):
It's hard to even never worked.

Speaker 3 (02:15:14):
You know. You got Bruno who started off as a heel.
Hogan started off worked here right right, Yeah, I think
even works Field w c W. You know Hollywood Hogan
player has gone back and forth. How about Shane Douglas,
he worked here with d c W. Yes, yeah, you know,
maybe that's a good little storylines changed now every week?

Speaker 4 (02:15:38):
Yeah, back and forth? Yeah, that's changed back and forth
three times a year now, How would you rate Ricky
steam but as a worker on a scale from month ten.

Speaker 3 (02:15:48):
H I as you as I think this, I get
variables that pop into my head. I know how hard
I work, you know, somewhere between an eight, eight and nine.

Speaker 4 (02:16:07):
Also, you mentioned Brett Hart a little bit ago. Yeah,
what are your memories of working with Brett? A whole
mass movement, A man of excellence. When it comes to
what to do in the ring, he would definitely say
that I don't think that would be a right thing
to do in the ring because it just doesn't make
sense for the match that we're trying, the story that
we're trying to tell.

Speaker 3 (02:16:28):
Worked hard, We're really hard. Didn't know Brett much outside
the ring, you know. We never stopped to have a beer,
you know, for lunch or dinner, never would meet to
go to the gym. He pretty much almost of all
the time traveled by himself. You know, I never would

(02:16:48):
see him. The only time I would ever see Brett
would be at the at the building. But as you noticed,
when you when you ask me these questions about this person,
that that person. Most of the times that you're asking
about this this particular guy is around the same era
that I came along, and my answers are predominantly staying

(02:17:10):
the same, hard workers, very conscious about the business. You know,
had good Jake to stink, Robert's good timing, you know,
and all that.

Speaker 4 (02:17:21):
Are you surprised that a lot of your peers, such
as Hogan and Flair is still around today.

Speaker 2 (02:17:27):
They might not be active, but they're still in the business.

Speaker 3 (02:17:30):
No, No, they loved it, you know. Obviously Hogan or
Flair probably do not need the income. They must love
love the business. Sometimes you get I liked the business.
I had some sour notes in my career. I don't

(02:17:53):
I don't look back and say, God, I wish this
was this. I had a good career. No, no, I
had a good career, and my work ethic, I think
kept me at my level. Once I reached that level,
there was no denying that. I think promoters or agents

(02:18:16):
or bookers or something would see that, and they knew
that the steamboat the kind of guy that if we
were to give the ball to would he score a
touchdown for the company or would he fumble on the five?
And I think more cases than I would score for him.

Speaker 2 (02:18:31):
You know, do you have any good rip stories seen
or I don't know if you pull.

Speaker 3 (02:18:37):
That ere, guys like mister Fuji or somebody would put
super blue in the guy's door locks. Right, You heard
that chain around the car and then that one chain
all the way around the car, over the roof, through
the door handles. Now, I'm going back to the seventies
when the door handles were the old style door handles.

(02:18:59):
You know this in the Carolina's chain all the way through,
all the way around big old padlock. They have bolt
cutters to cut. They put M E. D s on
the distributors. You know, guy would go and start the
car up, the distributor would blow up. Guys would go
out there and the car would be up on blocks.

(02:19:21):
All the wheels and tires are gone. And actually the
guy that would be doing the rib would take the
wheels and tires. So if we were in Raleigh, your
wheels and tires are in Charlotte. You know, I don't
recall who. Johnny Valentine did a real bad rib and
he he uh, he crapt in somebody's wrestling bag. The

(02:19:46):
old man. He puts some lighter fluid in this guy's
in haler. Yeah. The guy came back with the gun. Yeah,
and blue holes too. I think Johnny's a yeah, the
guy would come in after every match and you get,

(02:20:07):
you know, any shooting lighter fluid in his mouth.

Speaker 1 (02:20:12):
Did you have any actually, do you have any experiences
with archisial fever? Any business dealings with them in the company? Well,
maybe you didn't have power at the time, wasn't he
in the nineties?

Speaker 3 (02:20:31):
Ninety two?

Speaker 4 (02:20:31):
Is three ish announcing TV? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (02:20:35):
Stuffy, yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (02:20:38):
Guess In closing, do you want to say anything to
your fans that are watching this videos?

Speaker 3 (02:20:41):
Yea, you know, there's a I see this with being
around different types of celebrities and now being more so
around Winter Cup drivers and NASCAR racing and stuff that
my son's involved with racing. And I saw it, you know,
hanging around with basketball players and football players, and I

(02:21:07):
saw it in our business in wrestling, and that is
it happens. And I don't know if it's it's human
nature or it's just a natural thing to where fans
would come up to their to their celebrity, to their
favorite one. Oh god, can I have your autography? And

(02:21:27):
I see it so many times in all the different
aspects of the sports that I've mentioned. I've got time now, kid,
you know I've got They wouldn't you know, take a
few seconds to scribble the name on it, you know.
And it's in every sport that I've seen it in.
And I just wanted to tell you guys out there,
the fans, that you'll never see that for me. And

(02:21:48):
I've never forgotten all the support, even through my ups
and downs and my careers, that you've given me, because
if I didn't without you guys, I wouldn't have what
I have, you know, sort of in that retirement mode
right now, but I've I've got wonderful income. I've been
able to do well with what I made. I got
wonderful income for the next twenty years. And I'm doing

(02:22:10):
what I'm doing now and I'm getting paid for it.
And I do personal parents and autographs and I do
these workshops. But it really isn't because that I if
I need the buck. But I've figured out the last
six months or so that and thanking you guys for
giving me what I have. But I'm one to try

(02:22:32):
and find I was trying to find a way to
give back and give back to the business that treated
me so well and gave me what I have. So
that's what I'm doing now. I'm doing personal parents autographs,
and that's what doing the personal parents and autographs for
you guys, the fans out there, so that you you
get to see me again and then get the sign picture.
But then these workshops that I'm doing help them. I'm

(02:22:54):
trying to help these lost kids, you know, because the
art form of our business is slowly deminised. And if
I can just pass on just a small inkling of
information and hopefully that their light bulbs will click on,
maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but maybe during a
match that they had that they'll remember what I said
and they said, oh god, I remember Stevebak told me

(02:23:14):
about that. Oh so this is what he means that
make him on, you know. So basically that's what I'm
doing now. And thanks to all you guys out there,
never forget you. There was a guy I did an
autograph session yesterday. The guy came in. His name was
George Silver and he sent me a picture of himself,
one that was probably fifteen years old when he would.

Speaker 8 (02:23:37):
A picture of him and me together, and he wrote
in a letter, he says, you were at an autograph
session and you had a certain amount of time, and
they said that the time had expired and the line
was out the door, and you stood there and said,
now I'm going to finish signing everybody that's in line,

(02:23:59):
because they've been waiting for hours, hours. And I was
at the back of the line, and he said, I'll
never forget that. He said, you stood there for another
hour to finish up. And he said, I'm sending you
this letter and thanking you. And here's a picture that
you took after the autograph session. And I saw this guy,
George Silver, yesterday and prior to that was fifteen years ago.

Speaker 3 (02:24:21):
Wow. And he told me in the letter that he
was going to try and make this autograph session that
I was doing with this training school, and so I
brought the letter and I brought the picture, and sure
enough he came yesterday and he was and I was
signing autograph pictures and selling them. We were doing the

(02:24:43):
polaroids and the pitch deal, and I said, George, and
I pulled out his Manila envelope and inside of it,
I said, I already signed you one. Yeah, and everybody
in line just they said, oh, they just thought that
was so cool. Yeah, he said, no, this is yours.
You don't have to pay for it. I mean, you
just you're just one of those longtime fans, you know.

(02:25:05):
So thanks you guys, Thank you h okay

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