June 22, 2025 • 25 mins
Lizz Schumer is a writer, journalist(People magazine Senior Book Editor), and educator from Buffalo, N.Y., currently based in Brooklyn, N.Y. she primarily works as a journalist, covering books, podcasts, food and drink, culture, service journalism, features, and trending news as a creative writer.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello everyone, and welcome to the Writer's Podcast. I'm going
with the Writer's podcast today because you know we have four,
so there's a oh oh, I started doing something new, y'all.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Or actually tell you the names of the podcast that
I have. Go figure.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
So this end, I thought, meet Hollywood Monday, the Lady
Cell Podcast, and the Writer's class.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
There you go. So I think we're gonna do a
writer's class today. What it feels good.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
It feels good to be like semi author like anyway,
I'm Willnona and I'm one half of the end. I thought,
ladies and high five to me. Remember to introduce myself.
Oh wait, wait in the dance. In the dance, Okay,
now I'm done. It looks better than it did yesterday,
though so much better. Yesday it looked like I was
punching myself in the right end of the left cheek. Okay.
Now I'm going to be professional, y'all because we have
(00:49):
a professional in the building. So I am the I'm
one half of the author true group that wrote uh
and I thought divorce was bad? If only I were
me a memoir and verse, foreign coffee whattles, web wittles, debt.
I'm missing one, and I thought being grownuples eaz yes,
and I thought being coronuplezz. That's the one I was missing.
And you can get those six audiobooks wherever audiobooks are sold.
(01:11):
And now you know, if you've been here for a
while listening to the writers slash, you know what comes next.
You can find the rest of the seventeen books. There
were too cheap to make them audiobooks. I'm joking on
www dot and I thought ladies dot com. Guess what, y'all?
I got co hosts today. I said I was professional,
all right. My co host today is Tanya Todd, otherwise
known as the lady who make sure we play it
(01:33):
in the rules.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Tanya, would you like to introduce yourself?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Bought me out? Thank you for bringing me back again.
And I have to say I know you have audiobooks
because I have listened to them.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I'm sorry for that fifty cents refund.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
I love them. My name is Tanya Todd. I'm an author, actress, activist,
and a co host of femon podcast an occasional co
host here.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Awesome, okay, I love who you want film on podcast?
By the way, like you're so cool. I'm like one
day I'm gonna be like her, and then y'all, I
have another guest, another guest's co host today, because book
knowledge is necessary, not just regular research knowledge or movie
knowledge or entertainment knowledge, but actual book book knowledge. So
(02:25):
we have Jen gray Bill. Jen, would you like to
introduce yourself?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (02:29):
I everyone, I am Jen gray Bill. I am a
creativity coach. I've been working with authors for about ten years.
I've edited somewhere in the neighborhood of two hundred and
fifty books, and I absolutely love talking about story and
talking about books and the publishing industry.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Awesome. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
See I told you book knowledge, and you know I
have about fifty more things to say about myself. I
said fifteen, but I meant fifty. But I'm not going
to say them because you're not here to hear about me,
which is such a shame.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Look at this boat.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
You want to hear the story you do. You're not
here to hear about me. You're here to hear about
our wonderful guests. Wonderful guests. Would you like to introduce yourself?
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Hi, I would hello everyone. I'm Liz Schumer. I also
want to hear about that bo But we won't talk
about that right now. I'm also a writer and an
editor right now working at People Magazine heading up our
books coverage. And I'm also a writing coach, so Jen,
we're in good company. I do coaching with the New
(03:30):
York Writing Room, which is also a New York branch
of the Detroit Writing Room, so that is my other
professional hat, so to speak. And I'm also the dog
mom of a brindle pitbull named Jerry, who I can
barely go thirty seconds without mentioning, which I have just
proved to all of you.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
So happy to be.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Here and I sell you, okay, And honestly I said
I did reference it a few times exactly the most
professional person in the world.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
So I'm going to say I got People Magazine. There
we go. I feel like I did, right, I'm over
this moment.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yes, Oh so okay? First of all, how do you
keep all those hats on your head? Do you just
have a hat.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Rack at home of responsibility?
Speaker 5 (04:20):
How do you? Very much? I mean, you know, I
like to say that my brain is well a little spicy,
so I cannot keep it on one track anyway, so
I don't try. When I get distracted with my personal
book writing. Then I can hop on over to my
professional editing. When I get distracted with that and I
(04:40):
just can't focus, then I can go and coach somebody
else on their book writing, and around and around in
a circulcus. I also live and die buy my bullet
journal because I am that kind of millennial white girl.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
So here we are.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Oh yeah, I feels so immediate bonded with you, Liz.
Speaker 5 (05:01):
We're already best friends.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Already best friends, already best friends.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
I have my bullet journal beside me, and when I
saw that you were a book coach, I was like,
I need to be her friend.
Speaker 5 (05:10):
Yeah. Well, here we are. Here we go mission a college.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
So you guys, you notice I am in a car
and I'm about to run into a place with that
great reception. So I'm handing it over to Gin and
Tanya and whoever speaks first. Well, they're the ones who
get to keep it rolling. Oh so professional. I'm giving
myself a thumbs.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Up for that.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I like how Jen doesn't talk on purpose.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
Chicken.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Well, Jen and I often collaborate, and we just recently
did an event where I was the moderator, so maybe
we'll just shift into that gear. Right, Jen, We're a
good team, so let's do it. So I want to start.
I am also a multi hyphen it and I'm going
to be mean and ask you a question that people
often ask me, Like, since you do wear so many
(05:56):
hats or as I like to call them, tiaras, if
you had to choose one to define yourself, which would
it be?
Speaker 5 (06:03):
And why? Oh that is mean, But I'm going to
steal that Tiara's line as a consolation prize. So oh,
I think if I had to choose one, I'd have
to say it would be the book writing because ever
since I was you know, a little thing trying to
you know, write stories in the church hymn book while
(06:23):
I was supposed to be paying attention, That's what I've
wanted to do, so I That's always been my heart
and the rest of it kind of grew out of
my love of books. Although if I'd have to give
up reading books as part of that, that would be
a problem because I can't not do that. So ooh,
I'm waffling on this question, but I think it would
(06:44):
have to be but.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
You would read books for your personal use, not for
your profession. Right, we're talking about profession it's not not entertainment.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
That is still an option that human beings have, isn't it. Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Yeah, And I would argue that to be a good
book writer, you need to be read.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
Oh I totally agree. So I just started it.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
You can keep reading because it's a part of that
one that you chose.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
I love it. I love it now. Any writer who
doesn't also read, I don't understand how that's possible. I've
always got, you know, three to five books going at
any given time. So, big big book girl over here.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Does listening count?
Speaker 5 (07:20):
Oh yeah?
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Out of percently audio books totally counters reading books.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
So I wanted to ask you since you mentioned that
you have always been a book girly, you're you're. You
started professionally more on the social media side and doing marketing.
So how did you make that leap into making books
part of your job?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
You know?
Speaker 5 (07:42):
I kind of, I kind of fell into it, to
be honest with you. I got my MFA, which is,
you know, my nerdy little excuse to read books and
get a piece of paper saying I have diploma in it,
and I would always always looking for a way to
get into books professionally. So I started working at when
in Good Housekeeping and Prevention magazines at the same time,
(08:03):
it was one staff for all three. That has since changed,
and the woman who was heading up book coverage left
the company. So I one, I've heard her desk, and
with her permission after she had already left, took all
of the books that she had been covering and put
them on my desk. Then I took all the business
cards of her contexts and put them on top, and
(08:24):
I just told my boss, hey, look, I'm happy to
take on the book coverage if you need someone to
do it. And funny thing about bosses is they will
never tell you no if you offer to do additional
work for free. So I started out that way and eventually,
you know, the free fun stuff started taking over and
became my full time thing. So yeah, a little hostel
(08:46):
takeover never hurt anybody, right.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Live in the dream, I would jump in here for
one second and ask one question that's definitely off park,
because that's who I am.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
What do you tend to? What is your writers snack?
Speaker 5 (09:00):
I'm a cheese its person, extra toasty cheese it yes, yep, okay.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Because I'm currently writing.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
I'm currently writing, and I'm trying to figure out what
snack because right now I have a buffet and I'm like,
I need to I need to focus so I can
focus on my work.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So Cheeth's extra toast. I'm going to give that one
a try. All right, y'all, I'm out of it again.
I'm out of it. I'm sorry for jump.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Actually, while I'm here, one more question, which I know
everyone's going to want to know, how do you get
a magazine to cover your book?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Do you have any three tips.
Speaker 5 (09:31):
That you know? What I always tell people it is
a combination of persistence, luck and magic, and so it's
really one tip with two side cars, right, So persistence
you you have to be on my radar to get covered. Right,
It's just like buying a lottery ticket. You're not gonna
(09:52):
win it if you're not in it. So talking to
everybody you can about your book, because the more attention
that it's getting on the internet, on social media, amongst
your friends and family, whoever, the more likely it is
going to pop up on my radar. I mean, I have,
you know, publicists and marketing people pitching me books all
(10:12):
the time. But if something pops up on TikTok, that
everybody's talking about well, I'm gonna want to talk about
it too, so you know, I'm just I'm only human girls,
So that's maybe a tip and a half. You know,
get people chattering and make sure that you're making your
way onto my radar. I have just destroyed my inbox
with that statement, I'm sure, but that's okay.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
That is what I'm here for and what I tell
everyone is really hard to find her email ies, so
don't try.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
Yes, very very hard, very very hard, incredibly hard, stop
before you even start. But honestly, a lot of it
is luck. And I always like to reassure people because
it's hard out on these streets. We all know that
that if your book is not getting any attention, it
doesn't mean it's not good. It's probably great because there's
so many great books out there. I'm not lying when
(11:00):
I tell you I lie awake worrying about missing something
really great, because I'm sure it happens. So it doesn't
mean that your book sucks. It doesn't mean that you're
not doing what you should be doing. It's a numbers game,
and the fact is there are so many people out
there trying to do the same thing that you're trying
to do, so keep up the hustle and hopefully it'll
(11:22):
pay off. That's probably my best advice.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Jim, you have a question because I recognize Tanya asked one.
Did I hear you ask one?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
I did? Oh, okay, you snuck that, all right, I
always have another question.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
Though I always do another question, I'll go for it,
so so I have I'm curious.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
So you mentioned that you get.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Some of your recommendations from TikTok and and.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
I love that. For you.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
What is a book that was not from TikTok that
people are not talking about, that you've read recently or
in the past, that you really really loved that you
want more people to read.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Ooh, that is a good question, I mean. And that
not from TikTok is especially. I love that because we're
already finding things that way, right, so we don't need
we don't need help with those things. So let me
see something that I've read recently that I really want
people to read. I'm trying to think of one that
(12:21):
is not already going to be on everyone's radar. Ooh,
you know what I loved. There's a book called My
Friends by Frederick Bachman and It's all about art and
being a teenager and the friends that you make when
you're young and scrappy and just coming up in the world.
(12:42):
There's a little bit of a mystery to it, but
for anyone who had that really close group of friends
when you were first starting out and wanted to be
with those friends forever, whether that happens or not. No spoilers.
I will never spoil anything on purpose. This book is great.
It'll make you want to call your girls or your guys,
(13:02):
or your days or whoever, so that that's probably the
one that's it.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Oh nice, Okay, I've written that down. Thank you?
Speaker 5 (13:10):
Yeah, good, Yeah, I hope you love it.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
So, speaking of books that sound like we will love,
I saw that you described your latest manuscript as a
literary leaning, polyamorous LGBTQ plus dystopian, the little romance, some thrills,
and a mystery at the heart of it all, which
is exactly the type of description that will get you
scooped up by an agent in a heart feat But
I want to know what inspired that story because that's
(13:38):
a lot of intersections, you know, it's.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
A lot of intersections.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I know.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
Well, welcome to how my brain works. Y'ell, So you
know what inspired it is. I was thinking, well, I
was talking to my partner and we were all talking
about how if the zombie apocalypse comes, take me out.
I do not want to survive Last of Us style.
I don't want to be fighting. I'm without in these
streets trying to survive. That is not me, not my vibe, no,
(14:07):
not my journey. So I started thinking about, Okay, we
know what the heroes do at the end of the world.
We know what the you know, anti heroes do. What
about the everyday people who are just like stuck caught
up in all of this. What are they doing? Well,
they're probably holding up where there's food, and we all
(14:28):
went through the pandemic. What happens when you're stuck in
close proximity Either you kill each other or you yeah, no,
something happens. You have more fun than not. So if
you're stuck in the save has with a whole bunch
of hot people and you're under a stressful situation and
none of you are particularly inclined to save the world,
you're just gonna have a little fun in the meantime.
(14:50):
So yeah, and that's where that came from.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Fantastic well, you are in the in a great spot
because all three of us know literally a that would
be great for this. So when we're done offline, we
will find out about that that hair ribbon. We're going
to give you our recommendations.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Perfect. Hey, we got to help each other out here, right,
That's what that's what literary community is all about.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
So my next question for you, I said, I was
done with two and then I thought of one that
that's the way my brain works. So my next question
for you was, so, going from reviewing books and reading
books to writing books, what were there any transformation not
transformation transferable skills and they didn't have any impact on
how you wrote because you know, you know how to
write a great book review.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
So like while you're writing it, where you're like, well
is that gonna go book? The reviewer?
Speaker 5 (15:41):
Oh, that is a good question. I think you know
it's like anything, right, I can't you can't turn your
the rest of your brain off when you're working on
one of the one of these segments, when you've got
one of your tiarras on as time yet just taught me.
So I think the one thing that gets into my
book writing and and in my book reviewing too probably
is I never want to enact one of my own
(16:03):
pet peeves. So you know, one of my pet peeves
is when authors spend too much time taking us into
the deep history of something, when I just want to
get to the action. I love a good backstory, y'all,
don't get me wrong, but when we take a detour
and learn all about I don't know the history of
(16:24):
the beaches of Normandy, which is from a book I'm
just recently reading that I'm not going to tell you
about because I did not love it, and I don't
do that to people. That's unnecessarily mean. There's this couple,
they're in Normandy, they're about to have a sexy time,
and then fun suddenly we're off here talking about World
War Two, and I'm like, okay, but what about what
about those two people who are just about to get
(16:45):
to it? And then we're here, We're four pages and
so I don't like I don't like detours like that,
so in my writing, I don't take them. I just
get to the good stuff and then get out of there.
And if people want a detour, there are plenty of
other books.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Answer.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
And now I'm gonna have to reread everything I just wrote.
Thanks for that.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
This was the editing of the first like fifty one pages.
All right, I think each of them have one or
two more questions and then and then we're done, I promise.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
Curious.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Okay, I'm going to give Tanya the last question because
she always has great ones. Sorry not to put pressure
on Antonia, right, but so ask somebody who who coaches
authors and talks to a lot of authors and interacts
with a lot of authors, what would what type of
advice would you give to authors? One piece that would
(17:36):
be about the writing, one piece that would be about
the publishing, and then one piece that would be about
the marketing.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
Oh so my advice about the writing is to just
do it. I mean, I'm sure you run into this
with your clients all the time, Jen, but it's so
easy to get up in your own head. And I'm
sure you know everyone on this call can sympathize with this,
that you get so stuck in here that you don't
get it out here where the where the readers are.
(18:04):
So that's my biggest advice for writers is just get it,
get it out onto the page, and then that the
editors can take it from there. What were the other two?
Speaker 4 (18:15):
Number two was about the publishing process. You know, folks
have the option if they want to do if they
want to do self publishing, if they want to do
a traditional publishing contract. There's there's just there's a lot
of options that are out.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
There for folks.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
So so what would you recommend for folks as they
are thinking about the decision they want to make.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
Yeah, So I always you know, when I'm coaching people
as well through through this that through the decision, through
the process, I always advise people to think about your
tolerance for rejection and your ability to sustain hope and
and that tolerance for an extended period of time, because,
(18:56):
as anyone who's gone through the traditional publishing pipeline knows,
it is a ride and it takes a minute, and
you're gonna hear a whole lot of nose before you
get to yes. And not everybody has that constitution And
that's fine if it's not for you, Like you said, Jen,
You've got other revenues that are faster and the kinder, gentler,
(19:17):
and it can still lead to readers depending on well
those that magic factor that I mentioned before. Yeah, and
then for marketing, I think The most important book marketing
tip that I always have is make sure that your
positioning matches your book. I mean, Tanya, I love the
covers that you have behind you because they're so bright
(19:40):
and colorful and make me want to pick them up
and read the backs right immediately. So if you're right,
if your book is I don't know, a dark, twisty mystery,
you're not gonna want your marketing campaign to be happy
and sparkly like the books behind Tanya. You wanted to
match the mood of your book. On the other hand,
if you've got a happy, go lucky romance, then go
(20:03):
ahead and paperwell you're marketing with hearts and stars and
emojs and fun things like that, because that's the mood
that you want to put your readers in, and your
reviewers and anyone else who's getting your pitch. So make
sure that your pitch matches your book, and then you'll
be set up for success. Excellent, excellent, Tanya.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Apparently you have the next the last question.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
I am so glad you asked that question, Jen, because
I had something similar in mind. It's like, oh, we
can only choose one, but now I get to ask
what I really want to know, you've had your fingers
and you know so many different pots. You've done a
lot over the years, both professionally and personally. What have
you learned about yourself through all of these venues and
(20:49):
everything that you've done in your professional and personal journey.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
Ooh, that is a good one, Tan, Yeah, I think
she'd be great. Yeah, No, you were right, and you see,
this is why we're best friends.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
So I think the biggest thing.
Speaker 5 (21:05):
That I've learned is that I do have a high
tolerance for rejection and forgetting that no, because you have
to in this business and earlier on when I was
first starting out in well in life, but also also
all of these different avenues, I would take it very
personally when i'd get a know or when someone wouldn't
(21:27):
like something that I put out there, or I get
haters on the internet or whatever, and I've learned to
just be like a duck and let it roll off
and keep quacking because other people's opinions are other people's opinions,
and I'm not for everybody. And that's great because the
the best treats have have their dedicated audience, and I'd
(21:51):
rather be I don't know, an artisanal something than wonderbread.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
So love that.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Okay, so she stealing and tr and I'm stealing artisanal
instead of wonder bread. So if that happens in the
middle of a dark noir detective novel, that is all
your fault.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I'm a bad writer.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Thank you so much for being here with us today, Liz,
if you don't mind, can you tell us what we
can read some of your articles or maybe in the
future of your book where you hope it'll live. But
I'm not going to ask you know what, where do
people check you out? And then because you don't want
your we don't want your inbox full?
Speaker 5 (22:31):
Well no, everyone, feel free to pop over and say hello,
I my inbox can take it. The easiest place to
find me is either on my website at Lizshumer dot
com or I've fled many of the forms of social
media because that's where the bad guys live. But I
am on Instagram same handle Liz Schumer, and I'd love
(22:53):
to chat with with y'all about books and food and
pitbulls and all of the things. So thanks again for
having me. This has been so fun.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
This has not even felt like a real and I
thought ladies podcasts because I did not ask anything about
food except for the toasted cheese. It's like, I feel
like I should have asked about favor but whatever. But
so David's over here telling me to harry up before
we run out of a I end up going down
to one bar, so I'm gonna go ahead and wrap
it up for us over here.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
My name is Willnona and on one how ocius?
Speaker 5 (23:27):
You know what?
Speaker 1 (23:28):
I just forgot my narcissism popped up and was wrapping
it up for myself and did not wrap it up
for the other two.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I have cohosts. Wou would you.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Do?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
You know? Perfect covers?
Speaker 3 (23:46):
So I'm not hearing her?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Hearing you?
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Oh no? Why why don't you tell everyone where they
can find you and support your work, Jen.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
So I can be found at Jen greayveial dot com,
not treaking learn more about coaching and workshops and all
those kinds of great things. And you can follow me online.
I am Jen the Editor on Instagram and Threads and
Blue Sky.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
And I am on Instagram at miss Tanya Todd. My
website is misstania tid dot com. Follow my newsletter to
find out all the things that I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Okay now, I can wrap it up for me.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
I will Knowna on one half of the n I thought, ladies,
you can find out everything your ladies are up to
a www dot and I thought, ladies dot com. We
have a new website where I put up a few
things that I didn't want the world to know. But
now I'm not taking them down. So you do some
searching to find that one. Hahah. While you're there, go
down to the bottom of the page andcy the charities
that we probably support.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
We asked that you support them too. Remember it does
not have to be monetary.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
It could be actions like getting your hands dirty and
actually building an orphanage you need the opia, or it
could be just sharing some knowledge that they need to know.
But either way, remember that wisdom is all around you
if you're open to finding it and accepting it. So
peace and love you guys from will Knowna and Jade
who's beside me chewing wonderful gum and.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Now I'm just jealous of it. And by the way,
thanks for listening.
Hello everyone, and welcome to the Writer's Podcast. I'm going
with the Writer's podcast today because you know we have four,
so there's a oh oh, I started doing something new, y'all.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Or actually tell you the names of the podcast that
I have. Go figure.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
So this end, I thought, meet Hollywood Monday, the Lady
Cell Podcast, and the Writer's class.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
There you go. So I think we're gonna do a
writer's class today. What it feels good.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
It feels good to be like semi author like anyway,
I'm Willnona and I'm one half of the end. I thought,
ladies and high five to me. Remember to introduce myself.
Oh wait, wait in the dance. In the dance, Okay,
now I'm done. It looks better than it did yesterday,
though so much better. Yesday it looked like I was
punching myself in the right end of the left cheek. Okay.
Now I'm going to be professional, y'all because we have
(00:49):
a professional in the building. So I am the I'm
one half of the author true group that wrote uh
and I thought divorce was bad? If only I were
me a memoir and verse, foreign coffee whattles, web wittles, debt.
I'm missing one, and I thought being grownuples eaz yes,
and I thought being coronuplezz. That's the one I was missing.
And you can get those six audiobooks wherever audiobooks are sold.
(01:11):
And now you know, if you've been here for a
while listening to the writers slash, you know what comes next.
You can find the rest of the seventeen books. There
were too cheap to make them audiobooks. I'm joking on
www dot and I thought ladies dot com. Guess what, y'all?
I got co hosts today. I said I was professional,
all right. My co host today is Tanya Todd, otherwise
known as the lady who make sure we play it
(01:33):
in the rules.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Tanya, would you like to introduce yourself?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Bought me out? Thank you for bringing me back again.
And I have to say I know you have audiobooks
because I have listened to them.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I'm sorry for that fifty cents refund.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
I love them. My name is Tanya Todd. I'm an author, actress, activist,
and a co host of femon podcast an occasional co
host here.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Awesome, okay, I love who you want film on podcast?
By the way, like you're so cool. I'm like one
day I'm gonna be like her, and then y'all, I
have another guest, another guest's co host today, because book
knowledge is necessary, not just regular research knowledge or movie
knowledge or entertainment knowledge, but actual book book knowledge. So
(02:25):
we have Jen gray Bill. Jen, would you like to
introduce yourself?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (02:29):
I everyone, I am Jen gray Bill. I am a
creativity coach. I've been working with authors for about ten years.
I've edited somewhere in the neighborhood of two hundred and
fifty books, and I absolutely love talking about story and
talking about books and the publishing industry.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Awesome. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
See I told you book knowledge, and you know I
have about fifty more things to say about myself. I
said fifteen, but I meant fifty. But I'm not going
to say them because you're not here to hear about me,
which is such a shame.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Look at this boat.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
You want to hear the story you do. You're not
here to hear about me. You're here to hear about
our wonderful guests. Wonderful guests. Would you like to introduce yourself?
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Hi, I would hello everyone. I'm Liz Schumer. I also
want to hear about that bo But we won't talk
about that right now. I'm also a writer and an
editor right now working at People Magazine heading up our
books coverage. And I'm also a writing coach, so Jen,
we're in good company. I do coaching with the New
(03:30):
York Writing Room, which is also a New York branch
of the Detroit Writing Room, so that is my other
professional hat, so to speak. And I'm also the dog
mom of a brindle pitbull named Jerry, who I can
barely go thirty seconds without mentioning, which I have just
proved to all of you.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
So happy to be.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Here and I sell you, okay, And honestly I said
I did reference it a few times exactly the most
professional person in the world.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
So I'm going to say I got People Magazine. There
we go. I feel like I did, right, I'm over
this moment.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yes, Oh so okay? First of all, how do you
keep all those hats on your head? Do you just
have a hat.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Rack at home of responsibility?
Speaker 5 (04:20):
How do you? Very much? I mean, you know, I
like to say that my brain is well a little spicy,
so I cannot keep it on one track anyway, so
I don't try. When I get distracted with my personal
book writing. Then I can hop on over to my
professional editing. When I get distracted with that and I
(04:40):
just can't focus, then I can go and coach somebody
else on their book writing, and around and around in
a circulcus. I also live and die buy my bullet
journal because I am that kind of millennial white girl.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
So here we are.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Oh yeah, I feels so immediate bonded with you, Liz.
Speaker 5 (05:01):
We're already best friends.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Already best friends, already best friends.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
I have my bullet journal beside me, and when I
saw that you were a book coach, I was like,
I need to be her friend.
Speaker 5 (05:10):
Yeah. Well, here we are. Here we go mission a college.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
So you guys, you notice I am in a car
and I'm about to run into a place with that
great reception. So I'm handing it over to Gin and
Tanya and whoever speaks first. Well, they're the ones who
get to keep it rolling. Oh so professional. I'm giving
myself a thumbs.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Up for that.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I like how Jen doesn't talk on purpose.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
Chicken.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Well, Jen and I often collaborate, and we just recently
did an event where I was the moderator, so maybe
we'll just shift into that gear. Right, Jen, We're a
good team, so let's do it. So I want to start.
I am also a multi hyphen it and I'm going
to be mean and ask you a question that people
often ask me, Like, since you do wear so many
(05:56):
hats or as I like to call them, tiaras, if
you had to choose one to define yourself, which would
it be?
Speaker 5 (06:03):
And why? Oh that is mean, But I'm going to
steal that Tiara's line as a consolation prize. So oh,
I think if I had to choose one, I'd have
to say it would be the book writing because ever
since I was you know, a little thing trying to
you know, write stories in the church hymn book while
(06:23):
I was supposed to be paying attention, That's what I've
wanted to do, so I That's always been my heart
and the rest of it kind of grew out of
my love of books. Although if I'd have to give
up reading books as part of that, that would be
a problem because I can't not do that. So ooh,
I'm waffling on this question, but I think it would
(06:44):
have to be but.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
You would read books for your personal use, not for
your profession. Right, we're talking about profession it's not not entertainment.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
That is still an option that human beings have, isn't it. Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Yeah, And I would argue that to be a good
book writer, you need to be read.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
Oh I totally agree. So I just started it.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
You can keep reading because it's a part of that
one that you chose.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
I love it. I love it now. Any writer who
doesn't also read, I don't understand how that's possible. I've
always got, you know, three to five books going at
any given time. So, big big book girl over here.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Does listening count?
Speaker 5 (07:20):
Oh yeah?
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Out of percently audio books totally counters reading books.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
So I wanted to ask you since you mentioned that
you have always been a book girly, you're you're. You
started professionally more on the social media side and doing marketing.
So how did you make that leap into making books
part of your job?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
You know?
Speaker 5 (07:42):
I kind of, I kind of fell into it, to
be honest with you. I got my MFA, which is,
you know, my nerdy little excuse to read books and
get a piece of paper saying I have diploma in it,
and I would always always looking for a way to
get into books professionally. So I started working at when
in Good Housekeeping and Prevention magazines at the same time,
(08:03):
it was one staff for all three. That has since changed,
and the woman who was heading up book coverage left
the company. So I one, I've heard her desk, and
with her permission after she had already left, took all
of the books that she had been covering and put
them on my desk. Then I took all the business
cards of her contexts and put them on top, and
(08:24):
I just told my boss, hey, look, I'm happy to
take on the book coverage if you need someone to
do it. And funny thing about bosses is they will
never tell you no if you offer to do additional
work for free. So I started out that way and eventually,
you know, the free fun stuff started taking over and
became my full time thing. So yeah, a little hostel
(08:46):
takeover never hurt anybody, right.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Live in the dream, I would jump in here for
one second and ask one question that's definitely off park,
because that's who I am.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
What do you tend to? What is your writers snack?
Speaker 5 (09:00):
I'm a cheese its person, extra toasty cheese it yes, yep, okay.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Because I'm currently writing.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
I'm currently writing, and I'm trying to figure out what
snack because right now I have a buffet and I'm like,
I need to I need to focus so I can
focus on my work.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So Cheeth's extra toast. I'm going to give that one
a try. All right, y'all, I'm out of it again.
I'm out of it. I'm sorry for jump.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Actually, while I'm here, one more question, which I know
everyone's going to want to know, how do you get
a magazine to cover your book?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Do you have any three tips.
Speaker 5 (09:31):
That you know? What I always tell people it is
a combination of persistence, luck and magic, and so it's
really one tip with two side cars, right, So persistence
you you have to be on my radar to get covered. Right,
It's just like buying a lottery ticket. You're not gonna
(09:52):
win it if you're not in it. So talking to
everybody you can about your book, because the more attention
that it's getting on the internet, on social media, amongst
your friends and family, whoever, the more likely it is
going to pop up on my radar. I mean, I have,
you know, publicists and marketing people pitching me books all
(10:12):
the time. But if something pops up on TikTok, that
everybody's talking about well, I'm gonna want to talk about
it too, so you know, I'm just I'm only human girls,
So that's maybe a tip and a half. You know,
get people chattering and make sure that you're making your
way onto my radar. I have just destroyed my inbox
with that statement, I'm sure, but that's okay.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
That is what I'm here for and what I tell
everyone is really hard to find her email ies, so
don't try.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
Yes, very very hard, very very hard, incredibly hard, stop
before you even start. But honestly, a lot of it
is luck. And I always like to reassure people because
it's hard out on these streets. We all know that
that if your book is not getting any attention, it
doesn't mean it's not good. It's probably great because there's
so many great books out there. I'm not lying when
(11:00):
I tell you I lie awake worrying about missing something
really great, because I'm sure it happens. So it doesn't
mean that your book sucks. It doesn't mean that you're
not doing what you should be doing. It's a numbers game,
and the fact is there are so many people out
there trying to do the same thing that you're trying
to do, so keep up the hustle and hopefully it'll
(11:22):
pay off. That's probably my best advice.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Jim, you have a question because I recognize Tanya asked one.
Did I hear you ask one?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
I did? Oh, okay, you snuck that, all right, I
always have another question.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
Though I always do another question, I'll go for it,
so so I have I'm curious.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
So you mentioned that you get.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Some of your recommendations from TikTok and and.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
I love that. For you.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
What is a book that was not from TikTok that
people are not talking about, that you've read recently or
in the past, that you really really loved that you
want more people to read.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Ooh, that is a good question, I mean. And that
not from TikTok is especially. I love that because we're
already finding things that way, right, so we don't need
we don't need help with those things. So let me
see something that I've read recently that I really want
people to read. I'm trying to think of one that
(12:21):
is not already going to be on everyone's radar. Ooh,
you know what I loved. There's a book called My
Friends by Frederick Bachman and It's all about art and
being a teenager and the friends that you make when
you're young and scrappy and just coming up in the world.
(12:42):
There's a little bit of a mystery to it, but
for anyone who had that really close group of friends
when you were first starting out and wanted to be
with those friends forever, whether that happens or not. No spoilers.
I will never spoil anything on purpose. This book is great.
It'll make you want to call your girls or your guys,
(13:02):
or your days or whoever, so that that's probably the
one that's it.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Oh nice, Okay, I've written that down. Thank you?
Speaker 5 (13:10):
Yeah, good, Yeah, I hope you love it.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
So, speaking of books that sound like we will love,
I saw that you described your latest manuscript as a
literary leaning, polyamorous LGBTQ plus dystopian, the little romance, some thrills,
and a mystery at the heart of it all, which
is exactly the type of description that will get you
scooped up by an agent in a heart feat But
I want to know what inspired that story because that's
(13:38):
a lot of intersections, you know, it's.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
A lot of intersections.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I know.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
Well, welcome to how my brain works. Y'ell, So you
know what inspired it is. I was thinking, well, I
was talking to my partner and we were all talking
about how if the zombie apocalypse comes, take me out.
I do not want to survive Last of Us style.
I don't want to be fighting. I'm without in these
streets trying to survive. That is not me, not my vibe, no,
(14:07):
not my journey. So I started thinking about, Okay, we
know what the heroes do at the end of the world.
We know what the you know, anti heroes do. What
about the everyday people who are just like stuck caught
up in all of this. What are they doing? Well,
they're probably holding up where there's food, and we all
(14:28):
went through the pandemic. What happens when you're stuck in
close proximity Either you kill each other or you yeah, no,
something happens. You have more fun than not. So if
you're stuck in the save has with a whole bunch
of hot people and you're under a stressful situation and
none of you are particularly inclined to save the world,
you're just gonna have a little fun in the meantime.
(14:50):
So yeah, and that's where that came from.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Fantastic well, you are in the in a great spot
because all three of us know literally a that would
be great for this. So when we're done offline, we
will find out about that that hair ribbon. We're going
to give you our recommendations.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Perfect. Hey, we got to help each other out here, right,
That's what that's what literary community is all about.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
So my next question for you, I said, I was
done with two and then I thought of one that
that's the way my brain works. So my next question
for you was, so, going from reviewing books and reading
books to writing books, what were there any transformation not
transformation transferable skills and they didn't have any impact on
how you wrote because you know, you know how to
write a great book review.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
So like while you're writing it, where you're like, well
is that gonna go book? The reviewer?
Speaker 5 (15:41):
Oh, that is a good question. I think you know
it's like anything, right, I can't you can't turn your
the rest of your brain off when you're working on
one of the one of these segments, when you've got
one of your tiarras on as time yet just taught me.
So I think the one thing that gets into my
book writing and and in my book reviewing too probably
is I never want to enact one of my own
(16:03):
pet peeves. So you know, one of my pet peeves
is when authors spend too much time taking us into
the deep history of something, when I just want to
get to the action. I love a good backstory, y'all,
don't get me wrong, but when we take a detour
and learn all about I don't know the history of
(16:24):
the beaches of Normandy, which is from a book I'm
just recently reading that I'm not going to tell you
about because I did not love it, and I don't
do that to people. That's unnecessarily mean. There's this couple,
they're in Normandy, they're about to have a sexy time,
and then fun suddenly we're off here talking about World
War Two, and I'm like, okay, but what about what
about those two people who are just about to get
(16:45):
to it? And then we're here, We're four pages and
so I don't like I don't like detours like that,
so in my writing, I don't take them. I just
get to the good stuff and then get out of there.
And if people want a detour, there are plenty of
other books.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Answer.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
And now I'm gonna have to reread everything I just wrote.
Thanks for that.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
This was the editing of the first like fifty one pages.
All right, I think each of them have one or
two more questions and then and then we're done, I promise.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
Curious.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Okay, I'm going to give Tanya the last question because
she always has great ones. Sorry not to put pressure
on Antonia, right, but so ask somebody who who coaches
authors and talks to a lot of authors and interacts
with a lot of authors, what would what type of
advice would you give to authors? One piece that would
(17:36):
be about the writing, one piece that would be about
the publishing, and then one piece that would be about
the marketing.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
Oh so my advice about the writing is to just
do it. I mean, I'm sure you run into this
with your clients all the time, Jen, but it's so
easy to get up in your own head. And I'm
sure you know everyone on this call can sympathize with this,
that you get so stuck in here that you don't
get it out here where the where the readers are.
(18:04):
So that's my biggest advice for writers is just get it,
get it out onto the page, and then that the
editors can take it from there. What were the other two?
Speaker 4 (18:15):
Number two was about the publishing process. You know, folks
have the option if they want to do if they
want to do self publishing, if they want to do
a traditional publishing contract. There's there's just there's a lot
of options that are out.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
There for folks.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
So so what would you recommend for folks as they
are thinking about the decision they want to make.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
Yeah, So I always you know, when I'm coaching people
as well through through this that through the decision, through
the process, I always advise people to think about your
tolerance for rejection and your ability to sustain hope and
and that tolerance for an extended period of time, because,
(18:56):
as anyone who's gone through the traditional publishing pipeline knows,
it is a ride and it takes a minute, and
you're gonna hear a whole lot of nose before you
get to yes. And not everybody has that constitution And
that's fine if it's not for you, Like you said, Jen,
You've got other revenues that are faster and the kinder, gentler,
(19:17):
and it can still lead to readers depending on well
those that magic factor that I mentioned before. Yeah, and
then for marketing, I think The most important book marketing
tip that I always have is make sure that your
positioning matches your book. I mean, Tanya, I love the
covers that you have behind you because they're so bright
(19:40):
and colorful and make me want to pick them up
and read the backs right immediately. So if you're right,
if your book is I don't know, a dark, twisty mystery,
you're not gonna want your marketing campaign to be happy
and sparkly like the books behind Tanya. You wanted to
match the mood of your book. On the other hand,
if you've got a happy, go lucky romance, then go
(20:03):
ahead and paperwell you're marketing with hearts and stars and
emojs and fun things like that, because that's the mood
that you want to put your readers in, and your
reviewers and anyone else who's getting your pitch. So make
sure that your pitch matches your book, and then you'll
be set up for success. Excellent, excellent, Tanya.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Apparently you have the next the last question.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
I am so glad you asked that question, Jen, because
I had something similar in mind. It's like, oh, we
can only choose one, but now I get to ask
what I really want to know, you've had your fingers
and you know so many different pots. You've done a
lot over the years, both professionally and personally. What have
you learned about yourself through all of these venues and
(20:49):
everything that you've done in your professional and personal journey.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
Ooh, that is a good one, Tan, Yeah, I think
she'd be great. Yeah, No, you were right, and you see,
this is why we're best friends.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
So I think the biggest thing.
Speaker 5 (21:05):
That I've learned is that I do have a high
tolerance for rejection and forgetting that no, because you have
to in this business and earlier on when I was
first starting out in well in life, but also also
all of these different avenues, I would take it very
personally when i'd get a know or when someone wouldn't
(21:27):
like something that I put out there, or I get
haters on the internet or whatever, and I've learned to
just be like a duck and let it roll off
and keep quacking because other people's opinions are other people's opinions,
and I'm not for everybody. And that's great because the
the best treats have have their dedicated audience, and I'd
(21:51):
rather be I don't know, an artisanal something than wonderbread.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
So love that.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Okay, so she stealing and tr and I'm stealing artisanal
instead of wonder bread. So if that happens in the
middle of a dark noir detective novel, that is all
your fault.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I'm a bad writer.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Thank you so much for being here with us today, Liz,
if you don't mind, can you tell us what we
can read some of your articles or maybe in the
future of your book where you hope it'll live. But
I'm not going to ask you know what, where do
people check you out? And then because you don't want
your we don't want your inbox full?
Speaker 5 (22:31):
Well no, everyone, feel free to pop over and say hello,
I my inbox can take it. The easiest place to
find me is either on my website at Lizshumer dot
com or I've fled many of the forms of social
media because that's where the bad guys live. But I
am on Instagram same handle Liz Schumer, and I'd love
(22:53):
to chat with with y'all about books and food and
pitbulls and all of the things. So thanks again for
having me. This has been so fun.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
This has not even felt like a real and I
thought ladies podcasts because I did not ask anything about
food except for the toasted cheese. It's like, I feel
like I should have asked about favor but whatever. But
so David's over here telling me to harry up before
we run out of a I end up going down
to one bar, so I'm gonna go ahead and wrap
it up for us over here.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
My name is Willnona and on one how ocius?
Speaker 5 (23:27):
You know what?
Speaker 1 (23:28):
I just forgot my narcissism popped up and was wrapping
it up for myself and did not wrap it up
for the other two.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I have cohosts. Wou would you.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Do?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
You know? Perfect covers?
Speaker 3 (23:46):
So I'm not hearing her?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Hearing you?
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Oh no? Why why don't you tell everyone where they
can find you and support your work, Jen.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
So I can be found at Jen greayveial dot com,
not treaking learn more about coaching and workshops and all
those kinds of great things. And you can follow me online.
I am Jen the Editor on Instagram and Threads and
Blue Sky.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
And I am on Instagram at miss Tanya Todd. My
website is misstania tid dot com. Follow my newsletter to
find out all the things that I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Okay now, I can wrap it up for me.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
I will Knowna on one half of the n I thought, ladies,
you can find out everything your ladies are up to
a www dot and I thought, ladies dot com. We
have a new website where I put up a few
things that I didn't want the world to know. But
now I'm not taking them down. So you do some
searching to find that one. Hahah. While you're there, go
down to the bottom of the page andcy the charities
that we probably support.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
We asked that you support them too. Remember it does
not have to be monetary.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
It could be actions like getting your hands dirty and
actually building an orphanage you need the opia, or it
could be just sharing some knowledge that they need to know.
But either way, remember that wisdom is all around you
if you're open to finding it and accepting it. So
peace and love you guys from will Knowna and Jade
who's beside me chewing wonderful gum and.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Now I'm just jealous of it. And by the way,
thanks for listening.
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