#23 Boogie - PHOTO TALK - WTF-STOP PODCAST - WTF-Stop Podcast - Photo Talk

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Zach Waters and welcome to another episode of
what the GEF stop for Photo Right Chatter. Photographer is
about their life and connection to the world through photography.

(00:32):
For those of you who are into photography, especially those
of you who delve into street photography, you will know
the name Boogie and what his work symbolizes within that genre,
and you won't need much of an introduction for those
of you who are not familiar with the name Boogie.
He is a Serbian born street photographer who left Belgrade
after the civil unrest in the nineties and headed for

(00:53):
New York. His predominantly street photographery now for his portrayal
of war urban life in often overlook corners of cities
like New York, Okyo, Belgrade, Moscow, Bridgetown, Bangkok, to name
but a few. His narratives are deep and dark. He's
a storyteller, immersing himself in deep within the street, tucking
themes of poverty, violence, and human connection with unwavering honesty.

(01:14):
We talked about this nutchat especially his time working on
his first book, It's All Good, which depicts gang banger's
drug uses and gang members deep within the projects of New.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
York became my life, the most important thing in my life.
And I hung out there not to change the world,
that's all. But I think that's all bullshit. You know
when people tell you, oh, I did it, No, I
make world a better place, that's all got bullshit. You
do it for selfish reasons. You do it because you
get something out of there. You get thrills, you become

(01:47):
part of it. You you live something. You see stuff
that no one else can. You smell, stuff that it's
like being in a movie.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Boogi's photography is not just documentationess to form storytelling that
challenges perceptions and prompts reflection. With multiple critically acclaimed books
and exhibitions worldwide, Biggy's impact on contemporary street photography isn't deniable,
solidifying his place as one of the genre's most influential
voices who touched on his apportion mindset towards his subject
on the streets when he is out shooting that back alleyway.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Look, I was just lucky. Maybe things happen on energy
level way before words are spoken. I'm pretty sure about it. Yeah,
there is nothing you can say that can keep you
alive in certain situations. There's nothing I think that people
recognize each other, especially if people on the margins, they're

(02:41):
kind of more like wolves. They sense you right away,
they sense what they can pull off. So either they
do it, or they just leave you alone, or you
become friends.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Throughout our chat, we discussed the different statues of his life,
from his time at Belgrade to New York to Jamaica
and his ongoone commercial work with the likes of Nike.
Apart from his love of good street food, we discussed
his time using film and his eventual transition to digital.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
I remember back in the day when I when I
was shooting project I don't know Nike campaigns on film. Man,
you're waiting for your contact sheets to arrive and you're panicking.
Oh man, it's anticipating. This anticipation is amazing. And then
when I remember seeing it, seeing contact sheets for the

(03:28):
first time, first pass, I'm like, oh, I fucked up.
I fucked it all up. Then second past, I was like, Okay,
there are a couple of good ones. Third base, I'm like,
oh man, I killed it. I killed it. Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Boogie is a free spirit. He's not tied down by anything,
maybe apart from his family. He's a lovely, warm, entertaining person,
which is often a million miles away from the subject
matter he depicts in his work. He really thrives off
the vibe he captures of those around him at any
particular time. And he's just an honest guy doing his
I've been hustling him for ages to have a chop,

(04:02):
but after the said and done, as he doesn't sit
still for long anyway, I managed to nail him down
and I asked him what it was up to.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Three months ago, I was in Mexico City for some
work for Nike. Did the Mamba campaign for this Kobe
Bryant inspired project by Nike. So I did a worldwide
campaign for them in Mexico City. Before Mexico City, I
was in Naples. I was in Rome. Yeah, Rome was

(04:34):
also something at work, but Naples was like personal project.
A friend of mine took me around these public beaches there.
That was amazing, man, that was amazing. In the process,
I discovered that using flash is amazing. Well after after
I don't know for twenty five years of the during photography,

(04:56):
I discovered flash.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yes, I was thinking that when I was looking at
the stuff. Yeah, seriously, man, if you're on your Instagram
or Twitter. You couldn't miss all of these Naples beach things.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
I never used before, and this is such a huge discovery.
Sounds dumb, but that's the way it is great. And
then I bought flash from my Sonya as well, of course,
so now I prefer shooting with flash. She's completely different
than anything I've done before.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Walking on the beach generally taking pictures just a quite
a tricky thing to do. Yeah you look, look look, yeah,
you know.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
In case, this guy, this friend of mine, Robbie from
a he's local there and he's been going to these
beaches for like ten twelve years. So it wasn't difficult
at all. His merit, you know, he he showed me.
He just handled it in a way. This you know,
Napoli work wasn't difficult at all thanks to him.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
Did you find people being open to you just popping
the camera and flashing them?

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Kind of weirder? These people got kind of popular lately.
You can see these images, you know, two Tobasa image.
You can see it everywhere. And these people they act
like pretty much like their own state. Each one of
them has his little role. I would say, somehow, I
don't know, I don't know how to explain it, but

(06:27):
almost like young states.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah. I did think about them as like the sudden worshipers,
aren't they I coined the phrase what I called it?
What did I call it? Beautifully brutal?

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, and you skin cancer in the making. Man, it's
kind of freaky.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, but you know what I was thinking when you
were shooting at one with Bogie's using flash He's using
it really intensely. But I was also thinking, what was
it wearing? Were you in use speedos? Did you have
to blend in? Did you?

Speaker 2 (07:02):
I bought some weird hat man for five euros. It
was a heat was brutal, So I look like an idiot,
which sometimes helps, I have to say, it helps when
people think, look at this cuckoo dude. Man, look at
this guy, look at his dumb tourist. Sometimes it really

(07:24):
helps being an underdog, or when people people don't know
what was gonna hit him.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
Yeah, that's for sure. Are you going to do anything
with this work?

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Oh? Yeah, the book? Actually it's a zine. That's something
between zine and the book coming out in a couple
of weeks with this publisher from not sure where he's
based now, he's in New York or San Francisco, not sure,
A tour dogs. I did a couple of scenes with him,
really stand up guy. So we're gonna do this. Aneapoli

(07:57):
Beachnapoli Beach book zine are coming out soon.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
Are you in a situation now where you're putting a
project out on your finding Maybe publishers are coming to
you now to say be like this.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, you can kind of say that I'm just too
lazy to edit. I have to this. The owner of
Powerhouse he told me. He was like, man, whatever you
want to do, whatever project you have in mind, We're
going to do it. We're going to put it out.
The Powerhouse is really amazing, great publisher from Brooklyn. I'm working.

(08:31):
I'm not working on it. Actually, I'm lying. I have
to start editing this new project, New York street photos
over the years. It's going to be black and white.
But oh man, I have so much stuff I need
to go through. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
I can imagine you.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Have negatives that I'm discovering right now. Oh man, it's
fucking with my head because I'm discovering some images I've
never seen before. And I still have a lot of
binders in New York with negative So if I start
editing now and putting together the book, now, I know

(09:11):
I'm gonna be misspitload of stuff. In a way, I
have to bring those negatives here and scan them. It's
gonna take me some time because scanning is a bitch, man,
and editing is even bigger bitch. So there's something really
nice in the process of editing and putting the book

(09:34):
together and seeing the object the final product. I mean,
it's priceless in a way. Yeah, it's also some serious
work and you don't want to fuck it up. Of course,
you always fuck it up whenever your book comes out.
At first you're like, man, I could have done this better,
could have done that better? This is not good. Could

(09:56):
have been better? Yeah, could have been better always, but
could have been worse. Well, so it's it's okay.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
It's also easy of finding images you missed with negatives,
isn't it mother than digital?

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah? Oh no, digital? Oh I'm so badly it's impossible.
But even with even with negatives, even with film, I
remember how was I'm so I'm disorganized. I'm really not
organized with my files hard drives, And then you remember
every image by name until a certain point that everything

(10:32):
goes to shit. You can't remember a single name of
a file, and then finding certain image or higher res
scan or even negative negative, even worse, finding the negative impossible.
A couple of times happened to me. Someone wanted to
buy an imit by a print. I couldn't find the negative.

(10:53):
I was digging for days and I couldn't find it.
It's all the archive, fan. Part of my archive is
here in Belgrade. Part of it is in my lab
in New York.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Is it all nice toy files and everything?

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Well it yeah, it looks nice, but I don't know
what is where. I mean, it looks really nice, nice
binders and everything looks perfect.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
What you need is your children on that, and they
should be your archivest.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
The only thing my son kiars are video games with
his friends, and my daughter is a Biber with her girlfriends.
And my son is thirteen, my daughter is sixteen.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
Cafe, but they realized just that, Like I say, and
the future.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Well yeah, hopefully someday, you never know, but yeah, I'm
not going to force them into anything. I'm not even
gonna try. I mean I did try. You know, you
gave my son the camera to use and he was
into it for a two days maybe three. That was it.

(11:58):
It is fine. You never know. Maybe I plan to
see you would never know.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Do you know have a dissystem?

Speaker 2 (12:05):
Well, I'm you know, I have an assistant on need
to basics, you know, when I when I'm doing a problem,
when I'm doing a project. Of course in Mexico City,
I had assistants and digitechs and everything, not like an
office assistant. Look, no one can do it for you
my stuff. I know it. I kind of know how

(12:26):
how I wanted to look. I think I need to
do the work myself.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
When you were talking about the book projects, you were
talking about the black and white. What project was up
to play?

Speaker 2 (12:36):
No, No, it's a New York street photography, New York
street stuff. No to belize, I never never does see
I've never done anything with those images yet. REALISSI is amazing.
It's an amazing city.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Any exhibitions coming up, anything big retrospective of your work.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
No, it's too early for retrospective. The best is yet
to come, I hope. So really I don't know, man,
I really hope. So I think around ten years ago
I had an offer to teach at one of the
prestigious New York art schools, and I refused because I
feel like I have so much to do, to do,

(13:13):
still to shoot. I'm pretty sure the best physiat to
come and teach students. If there's anything I could teach them,
I don't know. You need to prepare, you need to
you need to prepare yourself. You cannot be responsible and
just show up. I'm prepared, just not okay. So I refused,
and I think it's still early early for that.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
Teaching is sometimes a natural progression later on.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
No, teaching is a beautiful thing. Doing a lecture, doing
a lecture here and there, it's a great thing. These students,
they ask you something that you never taught of before.
When you get back as much as you give, you
can actually learn something about yourself by giving lectures. I
think it's great. I that that's a good thing.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
On take me back to the beginning where you picked
up the come. I'm aware your granddad and your your
father were amateur photographers. What sparked you? We all know
what was happening in Belgrade at the time, went to
my lost of it. I think sort of was the
trigger for you. But what happened before that there would
have been the point of picking up a camera. Was

(14:21):
your father really influenced to you? Did you look at
anybody else?

Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, well he was always First of all, he was
really happy when I showed interest in photography. He was
really happy. So he bought me my first tun Olympus
camera that I that was actually good for shooting streets
some olympus oh and two. I think, yeah, yeah, that's

(14:47):
what's the one I didn't know. I think that the
ship that was happening around me, maybe actually pick up
the camera and document it. And also, seriously, I'm not kidding,
I think being behind the camera how to preserve your
sanity in a way in the situations like that, when

(15:08):
everything's falling apart around you. I think being an observer
definitely helps instead of feeling like you're participating in madness.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
I can understand the trigger, but as you know, as
a photographer, from not being a photographer actually getting out
doing the leg work, that's a different thing.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, well, the trigger was look, I wasn't I cannot
say I was a photographer at the time. The trigger
was just violence and okay, let me try to capture it.
Let me see what I.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Who was influencing you then? Was there anybody? Were you
away the photography fraternity of the world or well.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
It was before there was even before internet, not before internet,
but they didn't have a computer. Then. It kind of
was before and I had no money for books. There
was no book There were no books here. You know,
you couldn't even buy anything even if you had money. Yeah,
I think that was a blessing. That was a you know,

(16:11):
kind of developing on your own without emulating too much
of anybody's work. I think that. I think that's perfect,
that's blessing. And I think it's impossible right now for
kids growing up and for kids wanting to be photographers.
I think that's totally impossible with this way of you know,

(16:31):
social networking and all of that, and you know, you
click and you see somebody's work and then you, whether
you want it or not, you're going to copy somebody's work.
You need to have your own stamp, You need to
have your voice. I think it's much harder to find
your voice now than before.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah, what sort of photography was your Your grandfather and
your father.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
They were amateur photographers. They love cameras. I think it's
more about that it was more about liking these objects
than taking pictures. They were like.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
The only reason I'm asking that is it is not
to sound Nagie if it's because when I look back
at your Belgrade work, yeah it was pretty good. I'm
picking up a converrage. You're actually creating really really well
observed pictures. They're not snapshots. They're really beautiful stock.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
It was different time. Man. When I look at my
bellery stuff from even I know, two from fifteen years ago,
that stuff feels like if it were as if it
were shot thirty years ago. Yeah, it looks like that.
It was. It was completely different. Color colors were different.

(17:46):
They were really no, no, not that many billboards and
posters and you know, ads and all of that. It
was just kind of shades of gray. Yeah. So right
now I'm not inspired tired to shoot in Belgrade. From
time to time, I just half in the car and
I drive in, you know, around Serbia, and that's a

(18:09):
different world, that's completely different world. But in Belgrade, no,
because it it's you know, I don't know even know
how to explain it. It's not bad enough and it's
not good enough. It's somewhere in between. And I kind of.
I think I'm drawn to extremes of one or another kind.
I'm not sure. It's not not inspiring at all right

(18:33):
now for me, when people visit, when foreign photographers visit,
they're blown away. They love it. But I think wherever
you are, wherever you spend too much time or like
one time, you get sick of the place and then
travels help. Then you travel, you see how other people live,

(18:55):
and then you kind of find your place in the
scheme of things better. You can kind of see where
you stand. Yeah, I think it's important to travel to
kind of go see the world and how other people live.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
I think with the Belgrade War, there was a beautiful
closeness to it all because it was obviously a meaningful
part of your life. But the final images there was
such a darkness about them. The way that we've printed
as well was that it was a blackness to it
was it was.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
Beautiful final ones on Twitter on x final ones on
x Y. Yeah. Yeah, and those images. This is so weird, man,
it's I've seen them over the past couple of weeks
for the first time. I don't even remember taking I no,

(19:45):
I don't remember taking those out of It's really like
tim machine. Finding these images kind of whoa blow me away,
And in a way it's good because then you remember
what was happening in your life back in the day,
when you were you know, during that period of time.
So it's really nice, seriously, like some kind of a

(20:08):
time machine.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
What coming did you have when you're shooting the pau
quade stuff?

Speaker 2 (20:12):
I started with the Olympus that was my first camera,
and I just had three lances twenty A what was it,
twenty fifty and whatever eighty five. Now I had the
one thirty five as well, but then I switched to Nikon.
I don't know. I was using Nikon for probably fifteen

(20:32):
years though those were shot those that I scanned recently.
That was all Nikon F three or F or five,
I can't really remember, but F three is my Nikroon
F three is my favory camera ever. Beautiful camera.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
I like you better than like, yeah, I'm the F
one hundred for me was beautiful Niko.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Oh, that was that camera. That was beautiful camera. Because
I have I have A five I and F six
I am here and uh, but every one hundred was
so lightweight and it had all the teachers even better
than F five. That was beautiful camera. Yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
It was just so impact it was it was it
was like I think, was it the D ninety x
felt so plastically and like it did, remember, and you
have to put these bloody double A batteries in it
and then it would just conk out and break down.
But the one hundred was just it actually had all
the same technology as the F five, which the F

(21:35):
five was like a fortune at the time, everything everything
in Yeah, I think I shot two books myself just
using the F one hundred and two ventors. It's just
a workhorse.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
But then, of course, at some point I had to
buy myself a like of course, like I think I
did the best marketing in the camera world. Ever, it's
in all our heads. We all have the seed planted somewhere.
So I had to buy Aleika. And I was using

(22:07):
an M seven for a while. I still have it.
It's beautiful. It feels like a like a handgun. I
like that. It's we come back, heavy little thing. Don't
have it. But and then I at some point I
had to switch to digital. I was probably the last
professional photographer that switched to digital. But eventually it happens

(22:32):
to all us. And once you switch to digital, there's
no turning back. In a way, nowadays, I put film
in my camera and it sits there for like two
weeks three weeks a month, because you always carry your
digital point and shoot. And it's just the way it works.
What can you do? And for work, it's normal right

(22:55):
now you can only you wouldn't be able to survive
shooting film because clients have to sign off, approve everything
right away. It's just the way industry works.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Normal work in the film for guess really exactly what
working digitt It's like totally it's a totally different ball game.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
Ye different. And I remember back in the day when
I when I was shooting projects I don't know Nike
campaigns on film. Man, you you're waiting for your contact
sheets to arrive and you're panicking. Oh man, it's anticipating.
This anticipation is amazing. And then when I remember seeing

(23:32):
it sing contact sheets for the first time, first pass,
I'm like, oh, I fucked up. I fucked it all up.
Then second past, I'm like, okay, there are a couple
of good ones. Third pase, I'm like, oh man, I
killed it. I killed it. Yeah. Yeah, man, different, everything's
so much different. But I'm so glad I did it.

(23:53):
I'm so so glad I shot film as well.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah. It's a real level of isn't it using film?
Did you ever used transparancy.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
For work? Not for work, but it was it was
always weird. I don't know. I never really I never
really felt it. I did use it, but I never
felt it. But you know how I look at it,
it's like, okay, if you're a painter, but you never
really used real brush and real paint. Somehow, I think
shooting film, please, knowing the basics of processing and you know,

(24:27):
developing prints, I think it's a I think it's important
for a photographer.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
So the next step was you coming to America, and
it's well documented about how you got to marrow.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
It at all.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
I think it's well, yeah, I want to buy passed up.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Thank you, thanks for that.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
What I want to look at is to build up
to It's all good because you discovered who you were
as a photographer. You were out there trying to sort
of find your way. The two thousands for you were
mental in terms of your work out for and what
you will you know you you know Sapalo Stumble the

(25:06):
bel Grade book, What was the build up? And from
coming to America to Finding Yourself.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Book, you basically understand that you don't know shit. Of course,
when you start doing photography, I don't know. It looks easy,
and in the beginning you just don't know what you
don't know, You have no clue. You're nothing, You're not
you're nothing. The moment you understand how much you don't know.

(25:33):
I think that's when you start learning. In a way.
I work in a hospital back in the day, you know,
when I arrived in in States, work at the hospital
fixing some medical devices. Or I would wake up at
five am, go to shoot, go to work, go back home,
process my film, you know, do some prints, and then

(25:56):
over bum bum bum bum bum. And then you send
your stuff from two agencies to whoever magazine. There is
no response. You stop believing yourself if normal, then even
people close to you they don't believe in you, and
you get depressed. And I got depressed, and I kept

(26:18):
doing photography. I was like, I'll never do photography again.
Fuck it. So from I think I don't know two thousand,
two thousand and two, I sold all my equipment to
an eBay and I decided never to do a photography again.
I started doing web design. I was really good at it.
I killed it in that field. And in two thousand

(26:41):
two I kind of went back to photography, just with
a bit chance. I don't know. I built what. I
built a website with twenty of my photos and I
sent it to my contacts, and I don't know, I
had like thirty thousand unique visitors in a week. People
in feedback was amazing, So in a way made me

(27:02):
think that I might have some talent and that I
should maybe keep shooting. So I had my F five.
I was like, oh, that was a mess. So I
couldn't I couldn't sell it. This is not very good shape,
and uh and and one leans. I had that lab,

(27:22):
so I put film in it and I went out
and I kind of started shooting again. I was better
than before. I have to say, I needed like I
needed a break, which totally okay. It wasn't up to me.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Had you looked at your Belgrade stuff again in that
period over it just sort of ives your mind.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
No, really, look I never really looked at my Belgrade
stuff during that period. Only later when I put out
this belle belongs to me. Yeah, book your powerhouse. But
I never looked back in a way. I never looked back.
I just I just started shooting again. Soon after that,

(28:02):
soon after I started shooting again, I started walking into
these neighborhoods, into the parts of Brooklyn. When where actually,
it's all good happened?

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Was it in Bedford Stuvestan? What was it that's up
the place?

Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah, it was Bedford. Look, it was Bushwick, Bedford Stuyvestant,
bedb Siles and all. They call it bad style, bad
style Bushwick and some Queensbridge projects, which is queens not Brooklyn.
That was pretty much it. And that was the I
lived in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. His hipsters, a lot of hipsters.

(28:37):
So there was nothing there to shoot for me. So
I walked deeper and deeper into the kind of rougher
areas that they were rough back in the day. Now
they're very expensive neighbor Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
Like Bike Milligan, starm Pop. Is it mental mental vacation
all swing man, I know, I know. Even high Point,
it's a high point. What's the other part of the
projects up there? Is it high point? To make point?
What's the point? Plus W Street let's die. Yeah, properties

(29:12):
mental there.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
Are still projects. There are still projects there or public
housing projects there. There is still criminal activities, but everything
else is gentrified, and there are buildings and apartments with
a like thousands of dollars a friend.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
It's great, Yeah, sixteen thousand a month. So when I
look back at all your work and I followed your
work through the guess and I say this. You may
disagree with this, but I see there's a few different
boogies playing out within your work. Looking back at it's
all good for me. That was the part of Belgrade

(29:53):
as well where you got in really close. You were
really close. It was consistent and since it's all good,
but part from the bell Grade, But that was retrospective.
You've never gone that close. You always go close, but
you've never I think it's all good. You were in
their face all the time.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
Three years, doing a half years, three uh, you know,
hanging out good singer.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
That's it, and that comes across from that book.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
Have enough time to do that many times in life. Yeah,
that is too short.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yeah, it's all good. I thought reflected you rather than them.
Everything you've gone through, what was happening in Belgrade. You
trying to get through life in New York. You coming
across all of the gang bangers and the prostitute and
the drug pushes and all of this, and then you
know it's recorded how you got into their life and

(30:51):
how you maintained that. But then the title That's All
Good and the proceeding years of the way you shot
goes back to bell Grade when you're trying to make
sense of all the shit but in your head to
get gone. Yeah, it's not just Beltgrade, it's everybody else
as well. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes, you're here. Actually right, it
makes sense. And also I was going through some personal
shit at the time, and then listen to this, then
maybe look, maybe going somewhere where it's even worse, where
people have it worse than I do in my personal life.
Well that makes sense. You're like running away from your

(31:32):
problems by going into hell, saying yourself, saying yourself, Okay,
look man, my problems are nothing compared to this, compared
to these people.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
And I think that's really reflective in all of your work.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yeah, it could be, and you know, talking about it's
all good. Two and a half years I hang out
with these people and I don't think you can do
that two times in your life, you know, I don't
think you would survive. Kip would fuck you up mentally.
This was me all these things and having all that

(32:10):
shit in your head if it has to catch up
with you sooner or later, and not easy to kind
of cleanse yourself to get it out of your head.
You can block it out, but it's still there.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
As a photographer myself, I understand when you're taking pictures
and you come across stuff which is like wow. When
you shoot it, yeah, that's only a snapshot, because then
you've got to stay there. You still got to be there,
and people don't get that. People don't see that. How
did you cope with being there after you've taken the pictures?

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Well, look, it became my life in a way. The
thing is all these projects. People look at that as
a project, but in a way, you get so involved somehow,
and in the beginning, yeah, it's just a project, but
then it became becomes part of your life, and then
it takes it over in a way. Then it becomes

(33:04):
the most important thing in your life. And I was
that's exactly what happened. Became my life. The most important
thing in my life. And I hung out there not
to change the world, that's all I think. That's all bullshit.
You know when people tell you, oh, I did it,
you know, I make world a better play bullshit. You

(33:28):
do it for self reasons. You do it because you
get something out of there, You get trills, you become
part of it. You you live something, You see stuff
that no one else can. You smell, stuff that it's
like being in a movie, the most the craziest movie.

(33:48):
You can imagine.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
You revisited that work about ten years later, didn't you,
with a special edition?

Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah? Yes, I revisited that work. Back in the day.
I didn't even have the light box. I would look
at my negatives towards the ceiling light and I would
decide which one to scan or to print. No, the
first edition, it's so good. I printed every single every

(34:17):
single image in the book. I printed in my bathroom
dark rooms in what was eighteen by twenty four, seventeen
years eight by kind of ches. I missed so many.
I missed so many, which is again great, a great thing.

(34:37):
Finding those images is priceless, really, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
But you're a different person when you look at them again.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
Exactly if you don't look. Because if you don't change, man,
then watch the point. But if you keep in shiit
same way, I don't get it. What's the point. It
means that you don't change as a person, You don't
change as a human being, and whatever happens in your
life should change you or something's wrong with you. I mean,

(35:05):
you know, having kids, becoming becoming a father, this and that,
this and that.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
I think you have to evolve. If you don't, if
your work doesn't evolve, it means that you're shooting. That
you keep shooting stuff because of your audience. That you're
shooting stuff is expected from you, which is I don't
think it's okay. I think you should for your personal work,
you should shoot whatever you want because if you're only

(35:33):
if your only life, and if you're you know, in
the peak of your career, that's when you when you
should try new things. And if you fail, you do
whatever you try something else. It's okay. It's your only life.
You have to live it like a warrior man of
like a pussy.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
I think your books, which preceded all of that, were
exactly what you said, because I've noticed in the way
you attempt to experiment with different styles and different ways
of doing it come out in your books a little bit.
And we've just go back to the way you're just
being just talking about napless where you you've discovered full flash,
you know, and that's going to maybe prominent in the

(36:14):
next chapter.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
So if you if you look, say your Moscow book,
you shoot a lot of verticals.

Speaker 4 (36:22):
Well, I don't know, it's I thought there was a
lot of verticals, that the pictures were fantastic, and having
been to Moscow there there was a lot of symbolism
in that and you could see you were really pushing
on the edit there to walk into them sort of symbols.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
One of my best editor.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
When I first looked at it, I questioned, was it
conscious of shooting verticals for the layout of the book
because a lot of your stuff horizontal, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yeah? Yeah, a lot of my stuff is horizontal, most
of it. But lately I'm shooting some verticals as well. Man. Yeah,
you have to do what you feel like doing.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Yeah, because you go back to you know before that
when you look at Jamaica that, yeah, exactly, And I
just questioned that with I was a bit confused by
the editor that I was like, what's he trying here?
What is he doing?

Speaker 2 (37:18):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
I like the way you throw in you to it
all because I think sometimes you saw some couples when
you revisited your It's All Good, you left the scratches
on the negatives. Yes, yeah, I thought it was quite interesting.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yeah I was. I don't know. I just wanted I
just wanted it to be as real as it kind
of captures the era better. I think, Yes, I think
the era better, and it shows that I'm not about perfection.
I think perfection is so overrated in everything, in every

(37:56):
part of life. In a way, I think more about
so yeah, giving your something, your your voice, you're putting
your stamp on it. It's more about that, Yeah, affection
everyone can you know, it's it's all on YouTube. You
can learn how to take perfect shot of anything. It's

(38:20):
all out there.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
Staying with It's All Good. The other thing you did
was you there were stories in uh. You were letting
people personally reflect on the experiences, and you did a
key to it as well. You did the the image
key to it. You know where the pictures were and
stuff like that. You're riding off all the information to
make sure you haven't missed anything in the sense and

(38:42):
with the storylines. Obviously, I don't think you've gone in
as close with your work emotionally and mentally as you
had in It's all good with the with the rest
of your work, But have you considered using ways of
going in close again and maybe using audio and maybe
adding a little of dimension to it.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
It's not something you can plan. Yeah, I don't think
you can plan project like it's all good. It's impossible.
You just have to follow signs and do what you
have to do. You never know. I can never know
what my next project, personal project will be, or if
I'm going to go deep or not. And now using audio,

(39:25):
I don't, I don't know. I think you kind of
have to choose. Of course, we all do some stupid clips,
Instagram stories and stuff like that. If you kind of
have to decide if you want to focus on video
or skills just being one person, you cannot in a way,
you cannot do both and do justice.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
That is a good way of looking at it.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
You have only two hands in one brain, and I
think you have to stay stay fokes. You just have
to stay focused because trying you know, these little clips.
That's more about fan base and the social networking. And
I think we have to stay focused on the on

(40:06):
the subject and on what we're there to do, which
is do a book or a project.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
No, I greag, I greg. And the way I was
thinking audio was not as inductors say, you know, finding
a sort of storyline like you did. But it's all good.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
I cannot say I found. I think the point is
to just relax and follow up and follow suddenly, and
that's the only thing you can do. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
I was just thinking maybe with they say sapalo and
and Jamaica and all the other places you visit, it
is there's a noise to that chaos, isn't it? And
I was just thinking, is there an audio or noise
to that? That's all?

Speaker 2 (40:47):
Look, recently I found some actually found some clips. I'm
gonna send it to you. I'm gonna send it to you.
I found some clips from because I was using this.
I don't know if you know this little camera digital
Harry and Zumi you know what it is? No, I'm sure. Wow.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
So Biggie is on camera one Cambra and he's gone
off to find the.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Camera yeah, look at it. What is that that this
little shit? Oh my, this is this little ship digital
toy camera in a way, and can it.

Speaker 5 (41:19):
Gives like nineteen fifties or something. No, but it's not,
but it's not. It's a it's this whole limography wave
you remember, and this is this was kind of Japanese
little thing. You could of course, you could do stills
and the video with it. So I shot some videos
in Kingston in Jamaica.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Oh man, and the qui quality is like these first
cell phones. Wow, worse than eight millimeter. It's crazy. I'll
send you. I'll send you the Yeah, please the video.
When you said noise in Kingston, that's true. There's overwhelming noise.
You constant music from really bad terrier. It's really bad noise,

(42:05):
so annoying.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
I'm gonna explain to people who are listening here what
you just shown me. It looks like do you remember
do you remember one ten? Exact instant one head.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
It's a little hard in a zumi. It looks like
a film, like one ten film pretty much.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Yeah, it does.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
It does.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
It's like something my grandfather used to help tell me
about how you're working. I keep saying stuff online where
you know you're getting fixes and you get somebody who's
you know, in places like Jamaica and Sa Paalo and
well not fixed that really important to you.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
Jamaica, Well it's important. Look, it's important. If you want
to go into some ship areas, it's important to have
someone who has respect. Yeah, prefer from that area, but
who has respect. I mean that's the key. You can
spend you can spend years in some place and shoot

(43:08):
nothing and the right person can change your life. In
twodays and especially if you're traveling somewhere, it's good to
have someone from the country, from the city, from the area.
He my dog, hey man, but it's not doing that.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
He think it's sick there really innocently.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
It might be my mini poodle.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
I never imagined you with a mini poodle, mate.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Oh yeah, I love him. He's amazing my dog.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
You're classic gangster. It's classic gangster. He's got his poodle.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Yeah. I don't man, I don't need peoball to tell people.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
And he's got Stone Island on it.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Yeah, it's not in Mini Pool, White, Mini Pool.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
Let's go back to the work. Like what I was
talking about was it's all good, was I think it's
a different approach. We pecked that a few times. I
live Yeah, you did live it. I don't feel you've
given yourself that amount of mental energy to the rest
of your projects.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
Oh, because I was. Probably I would probably end up
in a mental institution if I try it again. Spent
that much time surrounded by people like that, Yeah, I
would probably end up being one of them, or mental institutions.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
Yeah, and I think there are.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
Two ways out of there.

Speaker 6 (44:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Always thought there was three or four ways you worked.
There was the closeness. Obviously, there's a commercial work which
you you change everything. You're using long lenses. You're you're
like a polished pro the way your commercial works coming out,
and good on you, mate, I'm not knocking.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Well, you're me, you know. I think I think that
at the point, no one ever hires me and telling me, oh,
we wanted to look like that, like this, because if
you wanted to look like that, you hire that guy,
not me. Yeah. Oh, they kind of hire me for
my thing.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Well, it's interesting because I thought, well, you know that
people like Nike and Puma and all of these big
sort of brands were bringing people like yourself in because
they wanted that street effect and blah blah blah, and
I was like, brilliant. If you can get it, you
can't bottle randomness. They're trying to look at your work
and think, we want that essence of street when you can't.
It's not something you put in a bottle and find

(45:39):
in a commercial environment. But I love the way you've
adapted it, and I can see how you brought something
into that was pretty relevant for them. I like the
way you've totally separated your commercial work and you've you've
gone in on the commercial work aspect and you can
see the traits of shooting corporate work. You do it
enough to really good that you can separate them. And
I saw that. The other part of the way you

(46:00):
work is whenever you bring a book out, I'm looking
for the way you're looking at things, and there's key
elements with your work which you always put in there.
One of the questions I was going to ask at
the beginning is when's the book of Boogie Dogs coming out?

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Yeah? Dogs, I don't know. Or birds, man, I shoot
a lot of birds as well.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
Yeah. No, I love the way you always get a dog.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
In you do a book on urban animals in a way.
I had that project in my mind, but it never
really happened. But there's plenty of time. Actually, I could
do a zene. You're right, You're right, I could do
a zen.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
Could do a boogie dogs. I think people would get
that in terms of what you look for. You love
urban texture, it's obvious.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yeah, you love lot.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
People who were standing out different. You love scars, you
have tattoos, You love your guns. Yeah, that's important. Why
is that important? Why do you feel when you go
to some party, you go to Jamaica, and obviously that's
on another level Jamaica, but that you you always find
them guns. How does that come about?

Speaker 2 (47:02):
It's h they find me, I think.

Speaker 7 (47:04):
I think again, there are no plans, There is no planning.
You cannot plan life. You just have to let it
sprize you.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Look. In fact, in Paulo, there were no guns.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Man.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
I was expecting guns there and it didn't happen. But
then in Jamaica it did happen a lot.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
Yeah, them masks, man, that is a disturbing picture. Dot
cover with the masks and stuff.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Yeah, I love yeah, one of yeah, one of my favorites.
But the one with the Rusty a K four deserve.
I shot from that M sixteen that's in one of them.
They little let me shut shoot from it. Look, the
thing is, there's people ask you, oh, you compromise this.
There's always a compromise because it's commercial work. The goal

(47:56):
is to sell sneakers. The goal is to sell sneakers,
not the always not to present me as an artist,
but to sell as many sneakers as possible. So there
has to be compromise there. You work with our director,
with creative director. It's normal. It's how it works.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
I think you make it sound really easy. We've all
visited big cities and we've all done you know, we've
all wandered a brand in the streets. But there's there's
a difference of finding a street and finding a city
and then walking down an alleyway and staying in the alleyway.
To be honest, most of these people don't even know
who you are. You know, there's this guy.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Turning up, Yeah, why would they? Why would He's.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
Got a camera and we all know how people can
react to cameras, especially when you're sitting there taxing up
cocaine and drugs and year, how do you just maintain
that back alleyway.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
Look, I was just lucky. I mean, things happen on
energy level way before words are spoken. I'm pretty sure
about it. Yeah, there is nothing you can say that
can keep you alive in certain situations. There's nothing. I
think that people recognize each other, especially these people on
the margins. They're kind of more like wolves. They sense

(49:08):
you right away, they sense what they can pull off.
So either they do it, or they just leave you alone,
or you become friends with them.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
How do you maintain that? That must be exhausting. You
leave your bed in the morning, they have your breakfast,
you walk down the streets. You know you're going to
be there ten hours.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
In Mexico City, man, I walked like twenty five, twenty six,
twenty seven kilometers a day. Oh, that was exhausting and
beautiful at the same time. It can get exhausting. You have,
of course, you have to watch your back sometime if
you're in some in the area. For example. Now, when

(49:51):
I was in Mexico City, I didn't really push it
because the city is so amazing. Just walking around on
my own was great, just random streets, random alleys. Everything
was just so cinematic and interesting as I stayed, you know,
I did. They did this work for Nike that was

(50:12):
five days altogether, and then I stayed five extra days
for myself on my own. That was perfect. Can I
stay longer? Maybe I would have tried to find someone
local to take me around more and take me deeper
into some shit, but I really didn't want to push it.

(50:32):
I don't know. Sometimes you just let stuff come to you.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
Just speak Spanish.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
No, not at all.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
Zero, Man, you did well, you did well. I've watched
a few YouTube videos on YouTube is walking around ghettos
and walking around really dodgy places in Columbia, the Medalane
and all of these places. Actually people that generally really nice.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
Yeah from my experience, yeah they are.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
They're just normal people, and we sort of built these
reputations up that you're going to go in there and
get your ash shot off. Nine times out of ten
they're going to embrace you and take you into the community.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
I agree Spanish would be good, but yeah, a bit
of Spanish would be good. I should do something about it.
I don't speak any any Spanish, but still, you know,
I was doing well in Mexico City.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
Somehow, you did well, mate. You do go to a
lot of good places for good food, though, don't you.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
What is such an important part of my life? I
love eating well, I love Mexican food. I had a blast, man,
I was eating like a pig. Yeah, all day, just
eating our tacos and ah, I love it.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
You must have been in Heaven and Bangkok then, oh yeah,
oh oh is that so good?

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Great? More man, it's in Belgrade, New York and Bangkok
in bank. I can't paid to go there again. Oh no,
I missed it. I missed the food good, mind blowing.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
You mix a lot of verticals and horizontals like you're
really playing now, especially with with the context of your
your work. You don't seem to care now, black and
white verticals, horizontals, You're just you're just mixing the part
on you. You're looking for.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
Things to eat them. Man, it's called brilliant, it's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
What is next for you? Really? Where does Boogie want
to go on the next fie? Guys?

Speaker 2 (52:26):
I have no idea. I really don't know. I don't
really plan that. Those decisions you just make, I don't know.
In a second, I have no plans again, no plans
at all. No, I would love to go to Bangkok
again White.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Bank Cock.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
Because I it. Bangkok for me is perfect mix of
enjoying life, between eating in right case, enjoying life and
shooting like a madman because good shots are everywhere there.
I would love to go to Naples again, or south
of Italy, anywhere in Italy in the south to just

(53:09):
shoot and eat. Perfect balance of enjoying life and taking
great shots. I'm not the one to decide if shit's
a good or not, but be inspired. Yeah, perfect balance
between eating great food and being inspired to shoot like crazy.
That's I think idea.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
How about Tokyo or someone like that.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Tokyo is great, been there, I don't know, four or
five times probably yeah, and it's fine. It's fine, but
still too orderly for me. Bit of chaos, I mean,
there is some kind of chaos there, but not my
kind of.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
Before we wind off, because it's being really great talking
to you, I want to have a chat with your ages.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
I put into GIP whatever it is you know the AI.
I have come up with some questions. Are you ready.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
Right?

Speaker 1 (54:05):
What advice would you give to aspiring photographers who are
interested in using art to shed light on social issues
and tell meaningful story narratives.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Oh my god, I thought that Chad GPT was more advanced.
My my advice is and not to listen to anybody's advice.
First of all, not to listen to me, and second
of all, to just follow your gut and do what
you feel like doing. Not like shedding light on social

(54:38):
issues and stuff, because if you're in it, if it's
your thing, it's going to happen one way or another.
But my main advice is not to plan too much,
just to live life and do what you have to do.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Second, do three questions. Many of your podjects delve into
social issues and my dad such as such is povericy,
addiction and marginalization. How do you navigate the ethical this
is chatchp right. How do you navigate the ethical considerations
of photographing vulnerable communities? And what impact do you hope

(55:14):
your work has on viewels? There you go, get on,
Get on that one. Well, I think we discussed discussed
that one one. This is quite an interesting one. This
is quite an interesting one. Find what I promise it.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
You in finding the poor and underprivillage. Right here we go?

Speaker 1 (55:42):
You ready, it's the four this is got this four
lines called right collaboration.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
Let's hear the collaboration, well, go back back.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
Collaboration seems to be a recurring theme in your work,
whether it's with other photographers or is a commune unities
you photograph. Do these collaborations influence your creative process? And
what do you believe they bring to the final outcome
of your project?

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Is lying and don't collaborate? How you collaborated? Photographer?

Speaker 1 (56:15):
My question is so much better.

Speaker 6 (56:17):
Your questions are great. Chaed gpt man, I thought it's
more advanced. People are just telling fairy tales about Chad
Gpt and it's actually done.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Still, I think there's something in that, and I'll tell
you what I think it is. You do collaborate with people.
You collaborate with your doesn't matter whether it's a woman
with bananas and her ears, or it's some type boxer,
or it's some a K four guys. That's all collaboration.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
All colaboration, if that's a collaboration. Yeah, but they give
you what you need basically, like any kind of photography
where it's fashion or commercial or that reports, the point
is in your subject or model or talent. Yeah, giving
you what you need, and it usually happens on some

(57:12):
energy level. Again, it's not something you communicate with words
or it either happens or it doesn't happen, and usually
it does happen. If that's a collaboration, then yeah, I
do collaborate with people.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
I'm going to move away from that now. I know
it's on YouTube. You're doing some wet plate colode again
with your mask on?

Speaker 2 (57:36):
Yeah, what's that about?

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Is there anything we're going to do anything with this?
Before you poison yourself?

Speaker 2 (57:42):
Look, I shot I did so many of these plates. Demons.
I had these theories called demons and then angels as well.
I have so many of these plates. And my camera,
my camera is eleven by fourteen inch web plate camera

(58:03):
that friend of mine made it for me based on
these drawings from I know, eighteenth nineteen nineteenth century. The
camera's falling apart, the playholder is falling apart us. These
chemicals are still poisonous and still unforgiving in a way.
They go through anything, they destroy everything, brass wood. So

(58:24):
my camera is not really functional right now. And frankly,
that project, that web played clodium project never really took
me anywhere. I was just doing it because it's amazing,
because the quality of these images, the three dimensional thing,

(58:44):
the aura that basically they capture, I think is priceless.
But that project never took me anywhere. Then there's no book, nothing.
I mean, I had couple of exhibitions, but that was
fifteen fourteen team forty years ago when I just started
with the with the project. Yeah, I don't know, nothing

(59:05):
ever happened with it. Yeah, so I'm not sure you're
gonna keep doing it.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
Probably one thing I do know about everything you're working on.
Who represents you? You've got an agent, but.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
You have an agent, commercial agent in New York, Yeah,
and I have I have an agent in Shanghai. But
usually clients come to me and then you, you know,
agents negotiate the job. I'm not good at it. I
don't think it's good being your own agent. No, and

(59:37):
negotiating the money part, because it's better to have a
buffer between you and the client. I mean, it's I
think it's necessary you have a buffer.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
How many images do you think you've got scanned movie
and all the hard drives?

Speaker 2 (59:53):
Cool?

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Give us a rough estimate, give us a wrough festival.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
I have no clue. No one hundreds of tens of thousands.
I would say more. I cannot even I don't know.
It's not thousands, tens of dolls, yes, at least yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
Do you not ever think of putting them on to
say getty?

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
No, no, why not?

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
But then they be yety, they become yetty, they're not boogie.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
What about people just wanting to buy the random images?
Do they just come to you?

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Or that can be done buying random images, buying prints,
that's all doable. But not letting someone else deciding on
the use of my stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
That's interesting. I like that. I'll say a lot of
photographers fighting now on the images being used. They've got
like ten thousand images in their picture library, like Alamo
or something like that, and they're screaming to get you
more money off the sales. Where you're sitting there with
eleven books worth of material and everything else on top

(01:01:04):
of that, and you're not interested. And I think that's interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
I know I wouldn't want someone else to decide how
to use my image or to use my image. My
image is to illustrate something I don't stand for. I
don't think it's okay. I have to be in control.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
You want stuff that's interesting. I mean, obviously you could
be making a lot more money as well if they
have that in there. That's just the other argument.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
I'm telling them. I'm not a good business man. That's
that's a fact. I'm good at clicking taking pictures maybe,
but business wise no. That's why I have an agent,
and you know I have someone else.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
There's platforms like photo Shelter and photo Deck where you
just set it up yourself, put all your images on
when people can buy them image straight away from you
if you want to it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
I really heard of it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
We will talk offline, Boogie about that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Yeah, okay, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
When you're in London, give us a shout and we'll
have a beer.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
Oh yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
I love that. I'd love that too, mate. Listen, you know,
I know you're really busy. Thank you for taking the time.
I'll be desperate to bain for ages. The hope you
enjoyed it, Boogie, It's been a pleasure, mate. All the best.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Take care likewise, man, you take care.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Take car mate.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
F

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#23 Boogie - PHOTO TALK - WTF-STOP PODCAST

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