January 14, 2025 • 32 mins
Episode 355 - “Label Executives & Managers” Feat: Ferrari Simmons & You Know BT Produced by: Baller Alert
Topics Include: Keinon Johnson of Interscope Records, 21 Savage’s Manager Meezy, How To Get Into The Music Industry, Navigating Music Business, & More
The Baller Alert Show
Featuring @FerrariSimmonsMusic @youknowbt
":The Culture Deserves It"
IG: @balleralert
Twitter: @balleralert
Facebook: balleralertcom
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
They get called broadcast line from Atlanta, Georgia. Wan't to
the ball show. I go by the name of fer.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I go by to that.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
You know, bat too, man.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
We got some special guests in the building, Keenan in
the building?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Maybe in the building? What's up? Fellas' real good?
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
What do you talk about? The rook like that?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Now? I know people are like, who the hell? How
the hell do we get these guys on here? Again?
I just wanted to talk to two people that I
very much respect. In the industry full of weirdos and
a whole bunch of bullshit going on.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
That's how you feel.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
We all know this.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I like to talk to people who stand on business.
I've never heard anything bad about either one.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Of you guys. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
In the industry full of.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
You know, we gotta gotta, we gotta give who these
guys are?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Okay, please introduce yourselves please.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Keenan Johnson originally from New York but been to Atlanta
since nineteen ninety two. Went to clark Land University. Music
industry well well well respected, I would say professional, been
the game twenty five plus years and basically from what
you're saying, I prod myself on being consistent. I think
that's why I've been able to be around so long,
(01:25):
and people should respect for me for so long because
I respect you.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Trying to be too humble man s VP. Interscope records
that year EVP EVP. Oh my bad, damn.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
How many years I was at Intersco for almost fifteen years? Yes,
started as a regional and worked my way up to
a EVP. Yeah, ended up running at the department over there.
So I'm not trying to be humble. I just figure
I was just gonna get into that a little bit.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
Okay, that's okay. Uh, Yeah, I'm easy. You know, anybody
from Atlanta, y'all know me. I'll just be chilling. Man.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
No, no, no, no, no. See see I first met this
guy man, he was promoting Yeah, and then all of
a sudden, I see this young guy with dreads fighting
in the club, and I've kept saying, who is this guy?
And then all of a sudden these were like, Hey,
the next one twenty one savage.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, I'm manager of twenty one President.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Are you also manager a producer?
Speaker 5 (02:17):
Yeah? Kid, Hazel, And I'm recently I'm just now creating
my management company.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
To kind of expand my roster as well. But yeah,
that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Can we wint my camera? He wasn't gonna say. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (02:27):
He definitely was gonna say, but can we talk about
who you recently signed?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Not right now?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Okay, we keep that on Instagram, but yeah, he but I.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Got I just yeah, I just got somebody who who's
super lit. Yeah, super lit.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
And I'm excited for the world to kind of see
what we do to grow what we got going on
for sure.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Okay, so my first question both of you guys are
when you first got into the industry, what are some
things that kind of made you say, damn, this is
some bullshit that I'm entering or did you have an
optimistic view of it? Nah?
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Not really. Honestly, when I first got into business, it
was a lot harder to get in. It was so
much gatekeeping going on back then. It was a lot
harder to get in.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
You know, the business was really based in New York
and LA for the most part. Back then. In Atlanta
was really just starting to pop back in the mid
in late nineties, So there wasn't a lot of true
business out here. There was a lot of a lot of.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Art out here in Atlanta, in Atlanta, but.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Not business yet. So the people that were down here
were people that were getting put on by their people.
And those people were doing this holding it tight, holding
it tight, and only putting on people that you know,
that they that they messed with, you know, or was
they homies or their cousins or whatever. So I remember
a time where you know, the executives that that I
that I saw coming up, they was assholes. This would
(03:48):
be perfectly honest. And what I what I what I
took from that was I'm gonna get on, but I
never want to make people feel like some of these
people made me feel when I was trying to come up.
So that's why I was, you know, rolled the way
I rolled, like I always wanted to just be me
at the end of the day, like be represented for
who I am as opposed to what I did.
Speaker 5 (04:05):
You know, Yeah, that's the same way with me. But yeah,
I just seen it with some bullshit from the promoter standpoint.
I seen niggas fake kick it. I've seen a lot
of shit. So when I came in, I was real,
like staying office. I was one of them. Fuck them niggas.
We don't need them niggas.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
If I fuck with you, I fuck with you. Fucked,
We'll fuck all that shit. And I've learned, you know,
through time, like you.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Gotta play politics and stuff and just to somebody else
in some type of way. You don't got to be
that way, you know, just staying on my character, you know,
So anybody who know me, No, I'm just I feel
like I hope that anybody runningto me just like, oh man,
he a cool.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Ass motherfucker first before.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
Like oh yeah, man, I'm man at twenty one savage
manager's that or I fake, you ain't gonna see me.
Speaker 6 (04:45):
But you never never even been like that, Like even
even when I first bet both of guys, y'all have
always been super cool.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Like I didn't even know.
Speaker 6 (04:53):
Like even when I first met you, I didn't even
know what you did with I was just like, dangn
it's a cool dude, Like yeah, he used to promote
and this and that, and now.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
He you know, he managed this artist.
Speaker 6 (05:02):
And I'm like, I'm like, oh that's fire, because you
don't you don't see people that gain that type of
success that you guys gained and that still keep a
level head because we used to people in the industry
being like assholes or like, oh, they.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Don't want to talk to you if you can't do
nothing for them.
Speaker 6 (05:18):
And that's that's another thing the industry gotta stop doing,
like stop being friends with people fake as you say,
fake kicking it because they can do something that they
can help you.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Well, I started from humble beginnings, like I started on
the street team BRO. So for me, like I couldn't
come in, you know, on a higher level acting like
something I never. I wasn't from the beginning. I came
literally from the bottom doing street promotions at Clarkland University,
like on days like this, putting out postal boards, putting
stickers on on goddamn walls, and all types of stupid
(05:48):
shit all through the winter, not getting paid. So for me,
it's like I literally grinded my way from not being
paid to an EVP bro. So never at any point
that I that I wanted to feel like or could
I feel like I was better than anyone, because actually
put it into work, So I can respect anybody that
puts into work, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
And Mesic you came from promoting, you came from kind.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
Of the same I was throwing parties, and I also
did street team work, like that's the first pack I
ever got was a two Chains album. That was my
first entry point into like the music business outside of
navigating how of throwing parties, because I remember one of
my parties got shot up.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I'll never forget.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
I was making a whole bunch of money and one
of my parties got shot up, and I remember my
life flashed for my eyes. I'm like, damn, my shit over.
I don't know how I'm gonna eat. I don't know
what I'm gonna do. And I remember sitting in the
house like what do you I would like because this
party shit is not about to last.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I don't know what I'm about to do. I'm like music,
and I remember I just.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Called Charlie Tech and al over there at Street is
X and it was like, man, just come over here.
And I did the street team work for Boats two Chains,
and then shit, I did really good at that, and
that's what made me just really fall in love with
like the music business and just learning more about it.
That's kind of like it was my entry point.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Stop right there. So you remember he's got you, said
Streeter Zax. I remember a time when there was a
lot it was not a lot of music executives in Atlanta. Yeah,
but then it became to where music is x X
moved to Atlanta and a lot of people from Atlanta
became music at X for sure. Can you pinpoint when
did you guys see that change?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yeah, for me, it was the La Face era. La
Face era. That's when I was in college and baby
Facing La Reed. They came in set up shopping in
Atlanta and they created that that vehicle La Face, which
brought us outcast TLC and all these these icons of music.
Uh usher you know. So they brought the foundation of
what became the new music hub for the for the
(07:40):
industry of Atlanta in the nineties, and I think Atlanta
grew from there. And don't get it wrong, you know,
Jermaine and Dallas they did their part as well, but
as far as bringing a full infrastructure of a big
label to the city, definitely that that office on P
Street was like oh shit, this is like this is
this can happen like this? Like I used to go
up there, My man Taya used to wear there. Who
(08:00):
I think you know that shit used to be like boomerang,
Like we were going there and people be dressed beautifully,
the women would look amazing. Everywhere you turned, everybody just
looked good, smelled good, felt good, and they was just
and they was popping out that shit. So, you know,
really set the foundation for what things could be and
what was fur the ground Atlanta to grow from from
there from that point on.
Speaker 5 (08:20):
Yeah, I mean, like I said, I grew up. I
grew up in seeing it. So I wasn't a time
where I didn't know that it wasn't able to happen
in Atlanta, you know, just because I'm little facing all
that stuff. I'm young, I was young. I'm thirty five,
so shit around that time, I ain't know much about music,
but I know music was always here, so I always
seen it, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
So what made what made you?
Speaker 6 (08:44):
I know you said that you you started working with
street executives, But what made you really start like getting
into like management, Like did you ever think you could
start manage? No?
Speaker 5 (08:52):
It was Charlie from streets he not with you know,
Charlie CEO was like man because I used to help artists,
but I would only help artists to get them for
free or for cheap, so I could make money at
the door. So I'm like helping work in their music,
doing whatever, making sure the DJ play the shit. I
don't give a fuck what I had to do because
I knew when two Chain changed his name from teddy
(09:13):
Boy to two Chains, I'm like, shit, I want to help.
Anything I need to do for two Chains, I'm gonna
do because when his mixtape release come, he gonna I
get it for free. So if I get it for
free and my door hit forty thousand and I make
twenty five percent of forty thousand, fine, you know. And
I got in the relationship. So I used to just
do stuff that marketers in different I used to do
stuff label people would do, and I didn't know what
(09:34):
I was doing. I'm just thinking whatever I can do
to build a relationship with the artists to make money.
So Charlie was like, look, bro, you can manage Do
you realize that you need to? And it was this
group called two nine that I was real close with,
nine Siege and Jason. He was like, man, you should
manage them. They are friends. You should try it. I'm like, damn,
I ain't ever think about it, but fuck it. That's
what made me move out my mama house. I moved
(09:56):
out my mama house and got an apartment right behind
Siege's house, bought them studio, and then, shit, I ain't
look back. That's when that was my entry point manager.
If it wasn't for Charlie, I would never thought about managing.
I just would have been throwing parties and trying to
figure it out, which is nothing wrong with that. I
still miss throwing parties. I had to stop on because
he was doing too much, so I had to stop
throwing the parties like I was trying to, Like he
(10:17):
was going out of town. I still had my percent,
but they got to the point where it's like I'm
not doing I'm not earning my money. So I just
gave my percent up and then that was it for
me with the parties. But I still wish I could
promote to this day. That's why when I get excited
when his birthday party come and shit like that, because
he give me that feeling of like, oh, y'all, come
fuck with us, we got this, we got that. I'm
really excited to promote anything, you.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Know, how exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
I'll get excited. How did you How did you and
Savage end up meeting.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
I knew him back.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
Shit if I'm three years older than him, so I
think I met him. This is just in Passing, just
because we grew up around the same people, like when
he was like twelve and I was like fifteen, seeing
him in Passing and then from there me throwing parties.
They will always come to the parties, bisections and stuff
like that. They was in the streets. They used to
fuck my parties up, like dough all these shit. He
was not a rapper whatsoever. So I just knew him
(11:09):
in Passing. I knew a lot of his older homeboys,
had a relationship with them, but they used to come
and from there. When he did start rapping, I was
just happy to see somebody who I knew for a
long time doing it and the music was good. So
I just was promoting him, pushing them just on some
like man, this nigga next, I know him like cool,
let's you know.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
That's how it was organic.
Speaker 5 (11:26):
Yeah, so I knew him before anything, like just just
in Passing, just growing up on the East Side.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
I could tell because it seems very organic between you two.
I could tell he cares about you. I can tell
you care about him. You know it's not transactional. Yeah,
as you can kind of tell from outside looking in
in certain situations, I could tell you guys have a
really good relationship.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I appreciate that. Yeah, are you doing a good job? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Because it's funny because when we went to Ruggs No
was it? Who party was? I forgot? Was at somebody
party and this uh savage saw you, like what you're
doing here, and it's like, damn, I'm trying to get
away from him.
Speaker 6 (12:04):
Stuff like that just shows me like how organic you
know your relationship is, because you really don't see that
a lot like a lot of times in this industry,
we see like, uh, like an art like a manager
like yourself, give with an artist and then as soon
as the artists blow up and they get big, so
what do they do? Snip snip switching later and then
they got a whole man, they got a whole management company,
(12:26):
and you don't help bring these artists, you know, to
the point to where where they at.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
And you know, you see, you see that so so
often in his industry.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
I'm blessed, bro, Like I know I'm blessed. I don't
it ain't no, I don't got no advice for nobody
and none. You gotta just pay. You got a real motherfucker.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
That's you.
Speaker 5 (12:48):
You know what I'm saying, the way you fuck with them,
because it's the percent the people that are like savage
is like two percent in the industry. So it's like,
don't think it's gonna it's it's it's rare for somebody
be loyal, you know, and locking the way you know
niggas is locked in. I was just talking to Shock
up about it before I got here. They going on
twenty five years together.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Yeah, wow, yeah, wow, shout out the shock.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
That's rare though, you know what I'm saying. So I'm blessed, man,
I'm blessed.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Okay, Kenan, I got a question, man. I know you
you was on the promo side for a very long time,
so you saw some things going no, no, no, no,
ain't going too crazy.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Hold on that.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
I wanted to ask you, like, what are some things
that you think an artist tends to blame the label
which is inaccurate?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
I want to good question because I worked at.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
The promo side year. I worked at war the records,
and you know, sometimes I saw when I had I
had a I had a corporate card, and I thought
that was cool.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I kept saying.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I was like, damn, I had to do my little
use expenses. I said, oh, this goes to the artist budget. Wow,
I just mons how to eat. Everybody was saying it
is we go to the bull artist. But what are
some things that you know are misconceptions that artists may say, Man,
(14:09):
it's y'all phone.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
I mean, I've seen many of times where you know,
as a promo guy, we've delivered you know, success, you
know for artists on records, you know, whether it be
number ones, top tens, top fives, but the man, it
a record doesn't work, y'all shit, y'alling. I've had that
happen many a time actually, and I don't even take
it personal. I just I know what it is. Like
(14:31):
I learned early in this game, it's a delicate dance
that we have to do as record people, especially on
the promo side, as far as building bridges and relationships
with artists, like to one degree, we're literally most times
the first line of defense when it comes to showing
them how to be artists in front of people, because
when they do promo, they're getting in front of people
like yourself, and a lot of times they don't really
(14:52):
have the tools to communicate properly, to actually have conversations
where they know how to give the right answers and
not put themselves in bad situations. So what happens with
that is you build the trust with these artists, you know,
in that process early on. So that's the great part.
Right on the way up, you're helping them build you
watching them grow, and they get all success. But then
(15:12):
to the point about the management part where people get
snip snipped. It's the same kind of dichotomy when they
get super big and all of a sudden they're not
as big as they were, and they may fucking deliver
a dud, and you may take that dud top ten
because that's the you know, you have an interest in
the staking of artists, you believe in them, you was
with them from the beginning. But this just ain't the record.
But they'll throw your ass under the bus, so god
damn quick and make your head spin. But I, like
(15:35):
I said, I ain't take a person at this point.
It's it's the game, you know. At the end of
the day, I would hope that my overall track record
of success across a lineage of artists speaks to my
what I contributed as opposed to what I did with
one artist or one record.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Now, let me ask you this, is it true that
you can pay for a number one record?
Speaker 4 (15:53):
I don't know nothing about that, Okay.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
I just see this on the internet all the time.
Speaker 6 (15:59):
Report you get, you get, you get industry experts, and
they were like, hey, it cost this to go to
number one. And you know when you see these artists
going number one is because the labels are doing let's
do it.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
I mean, let me let me start.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Let me, let me, let me, let me start.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
I'm from a different eraror bro. You have to pay
so much so for me, So for me, let's just
let's just get get this out the way. For me,
even speaking on platforms is a big deal one, that's
a fact. Speaking on gang business is even more of
a big deal for me. So for me, like whatever
is known, it is what it is. But at the
(16:34):
end of the day, you have to have a great
record in order to put it in position to go
number one. I'll say that, yes, are there budgets involved
with working records? Of course, there's budgets involved with every
department at a record label. Just like there's a digital
department that needs a budget to move things around, there's
a marketing department that needs a budget to move things around.
There's a radio budget as well. But if that record
ain't shit, that record's gonna stall at twenty because the
(16:55):
record ain't researching. So at the end of the day,
you need a really really good record that's connecting with
the with the with the audience in order fourth to
go number one? So can you pay for number one?
I wouldn't agree with that. Do you need a great
team to position a record to go number one and
a budget to support that? Of course absolutely, And that
was a good answer because the reason why I access
(17:16):
because people making it seem like it doesn't matter what
type of music it is, like you can instantly pay to.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Go number one.
Speaker 6 (17:25):
So that's why I'm glad we got experts in the
room to really break it down.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
So I get so many conversations about people who hire
independent people who and they say, man, I gave it
so and so personal this amount of money and my
record ain't even chart. Well, what's the record good?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
First of all?
Speaker 4 (17:40):
You know, let's start there, right, And sometimes you're dealing
with people who are maybe call themselves professional, but they're
just looking for a check. One thing I can say
about myself, and you know, I will choot my heart
in this regard. I never took no money that I
didn't believe in. If I didn't believe in the record
or believe in the artist, I'm not taking your bread.
It ain't work for you diminishing my my reputation for sure.
(18:02):
Like the headache is one thing, but my reputation is
a whole nother thing. That's why to this day I
can walk in any room my head high and no,
there's no one in that room that could say Keenan
did them dirty? Ever, you'll never find that person. If
they did, they full of shit, you feel me? So
you gotta you gotta with anything. You need to vet
the people that you're dealing with. But you also need
to vet your goddamn product. Yeah it's that product worthy?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Not for sure?
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Now measy. I know. Sometimes you gotta go hide sometimes
because motherfuckers probably be walking up to you, like bro,
blow me up like you did?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Savage?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
My boy, how can you take me there to that?
You say?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
What what they got? I can't, I can't, I can't.
I can't do that.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
But you know, I get even advice about looking left
and right, bro, looking to people, look at the people
around you, BROI try to build and make sure you
got passionate because one thing about us, we was pat like.
It was a time where, believe it or not, people
did not believe in twenty one Savage. They thought this
nigga was a crazy street nigga. I remember biggas come
to me like, Man, be careful, Bro. I don't man
(19:03):
this ship. Man, I don't know how long it's gonna last.
Get your money because of where he started, you know
what I'm saying. But it's when you find people that
genuinely believe, bro, it'll happen, don't you know. I feel
like sometimes look left and right and don't look up.
You know, look left and right, your people were right
around you. That's gonna help you build that ship, you
know a lot of times. So that's the best advice
I get. But you asking me to put you on,
(19:25):
I can't do it.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Well.
Speaker 6 (19:27):
What I would say, what's what's uh you know on
on your adventure going up? What's some of the craziest
things that y'all have to experience?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Like what you mean that.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
You can say things that you can say because I know,
I know, I know.
Speaker 6 (19:42):
At one point, you know, I saw you do an
interview or y'all talked about y'all. Y'all was like traveling
across country like in a in a small van, you know,
just just talking about the grind that people may not
see because of the sex that y'all have.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
Savage couldn't fly, so, you know, due to his you know,
nobody knew at the time, but you know, citizenship and
stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
We didn't just we never discussed it, but he.
Speaker 5 (20:03):
Could not fly. He didn't have ID. So everywhere we
went at the beginning, we drove everywhere. We used to
have to route our shows. Yeah, like if we did
a show in Kansas City, we couldn't take a show
in Miami the next day, no matter how much they
was paying.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
So we had to route the drive. So we knew, like,
oh we do these two shows.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
Cool, this takes twelve hours to drive here from there,
it's gonna be six hours here and then from there
to get back home, it's gonna be this.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
We used to have to ride it like that.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
Or when we met in LA for the labels, that
was a thirty five hour non stop drive drive to LA.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Back and forth. So we knew that was gonna take
a week.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Bro, it's gonna be two days drove to LA.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
All the time. We did that more than once.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
Two days to drive there, three days to do what
you need to be, two more days to get back home.
So we need, like we used to have to schedule
how we traveled just based off of us not being
able to fly for a long time till he got
enough money, and a lot of these niggas fly private
where they flew.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
At the time.
Speaker 5 (20:56):
He was one of the first niggas to take jets,
but a lot of niggas is taking jets flexing because
they spend their money just flying private.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Niggas. They understand we that was.
Speaker 5 (21:04):
The only y'all have to do li you know what
I'm saying, without him having to go through the process
of TSA and all that.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
So that's why we was flying private at first.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
Honestly, it wasn't a flex It was like, yeah, we
had to get Wow, I did not know that.
Speaker 6 (21:19):
Yeah, that's crazy. I mean, so at what point did
y'all have that conversation? Was that something that he was
like y'all gotta have a talk with you about.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Oh. No, I mean I knew it's something.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
It wasn't like people see the ice shit and see
it think like, oh, he scrambled to try to fix
something when to hit the fan.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
No, man, it's something this like his life.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
He's been working on this for before, Like this is
something that's been the top priority for him. It was
always something that you know, knew, But it's just nothing
that you you don't just want to go around talking about.
I had a friend who had a citizenship issue and
I didn't know until something happened with Savage and he
actually told me, and I been friends with him since
middle school.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
It's just something you don't ship.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
It's something you don't talk about because it was gonna
come from you talking about it, besides you endangering yourself,
you know what I'm saying. So the people that needed
to know new But it wasn't like one of them
things he hided from the world a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Oh, he wasn't really from Atlanta.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
He was cat Man that Nigga came in when he
was seven. That Nigga's from Atlanta, you know what I'm saying.
But he also can't just remind you that he's come
another country when he's trying to handle his immigration issues.
You know, he's not just about to Hey, yeah, by
the way, man, I got this going on.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Who's gonna talk about it? Yeah, that's kind of how
that worked.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I wanted to give him his flowers, man in front
of you, because I always say this on the radio.
I always say this every podcast, dag. He is very
consistent bro in a lane in the industry with a
lot of Sometimes artists go up in peaks and valleys
with artists. He is still peaking, bro. Like I'm talking about,
every time he dropped, we got at least four bangers
(22:50):
at the same time and another four in the club.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I appreciate it to that.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Where does that come from?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Man? That nigga hustler. Man, he know and he pay
attention to the game.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
So like we watched the game, we watch what needs
to be done, what don't need to be done, what
we can change, how people feel about us, how people
feeling about other people, the.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Temperature, everything. You know, he pay attention to everything.
Speaker 5 (23:12):
He not just some nigga going into booth rapping and
you know, nah, he knows he has intention on everything
he does. He knows what he needs to do, he
knows what's expected of him, and he know where he
wanted to take his career and where he wanted to
take his life.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
At the end of the day, man, shit, he hustled.
He know this shit paying. He ain't about to fuck
it up. Why would you want to suck it up?
You gotta make it bigger, get the checks bigger, man.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
That's how he thinks, honestly, and he actually be rapping
rapping like I gotta no for like because I watched
the journey as well, and I gotta be honest with you.
In the beginning, I was like, these niggas look crazy
as fuck. Ye what is these niggas talking about?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
You know?
Speaker 4 (23:47):
And I'm staying away from that shit. Like, so I
got to give you, like give flowers as well, for one,
having the foresight to see the talent that was there
and be able to be able to nurture it and
you grow along with him at the same time, because
I watched him grow and become this young man. It's
like really like a pillar, Like he gives back so
much in the community and I love to use it
(24:07):
just this analogy, like you know, people always look back
at who people were in the beginning, but we have
to remember there is no Malcolm X with our mounc
and little you feel that. And I apply that same
analogy to people like Savage, Like I watch who he
is today. He's an amazing human being and the way
the way you guys as as as a team give
back and just contribute to community.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Salute, Nah, thank you, I mean a lot, bro, No listen, bro,
anytime I can give him his flowers, because I always
feel like people just purposely leave him off.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I'm over here, like the reason why I just tweeted
that the other day.
Speaker 5 (24:40):
He's not in a lot of conversations in my opinion,
because he raps and moves out the way.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, he don't talk.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
He don't.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
That's why I raise my hand and say, twenty one
savurage about it in there.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Bro, He not in the mix. He not on the
blalls for nothing.
Speaker 5 (24:54):
Everything you see by some music related is nothing really, Like,
you know, he's not really the conversation. When he drops
his music, he does what he does, then he falls
back and it's a gift in the curse, you know.
So I feel like that's the thing when it comes
to conversations, it's one of them. Oh yeah, twenty one,
like you don't just sometimes people don't think of it
first because of how he moves. He's like more reserved,
(25:14):
more quiet to himself. He's not really all out and about.
You don't see him holding hands with holes, running out
of club going viral for that.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Well, it's my camera. That's why it's more. People like
me need to come out and start saying, twenty one savage.
You gotta have some more champions, bro, you feel me,
come on out there and start talking about twenty one
savage little bit more.
Speaker 6 (25:33):
But that's that's how you know he making good music
though not to cut like, you know, an artist is
making good music when they don't have to do all
the antics and stuff like that. I think that's another
reason why an artist like Rod Wave is so popular,
because you don't really hear nothing about him, you know,
just the music.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
He let the music speak man, and the people speak
through the music. That's how it is. I mean he dropped,
you gonna know, because the people listening to it, that's
the most important thing, all right.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
So to each one of you guys, Keenan, I had
you go first, if someone wants to get into the
label business and they're young, m what would you say
to them, Man, they don't know what to do well,
where to start?
Speaker 4 (26:15):
I would say, now is the best time, more than never,
to lean into your independence. To be perfectly honest, you know,
the label business, you know, as you know, you know
I was. I got caught up in the restructuring that
happened at Universal earlier last year, back in March. And
the fact is there's a lot of great people on
(26:36):
the outside of a label right now. So the reason
I say for people who are in the beginning on
the way up to maybe build on the independent level
is because that's what the opportunities are.
Speaker 6 (26:45):
Like.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
There's so many opportunities for you to put off music
on your own, you know, get your own distribution deals,
build with a team, and actually figure this shit out
early before you have something to deliver to a label.
So by the time you get to the point to
get into a label, you actually have some equity built up.
And if you're going inside, you're going inside for a reason.
You're going inside for even more resources, right and the
(27:07):
check in addition to the resources, as opposed to when
you going too early most times you end up gett
fucked just being honest, Like most artists that go in
too early, you know, with just the music to offer
and just a little bit of a buzz, they get
the deal they got. It's cool and it may be
an opportunity, but you got to remember at a label,
there's so many artists that are vying for the attention
of the label to become a priority. If you not,
(27:30):
if you're not driving them to make your priority because
you're actually delivering, you're probably not going to get the
look that you want, that you truly want initially. So
I would advise anybody like, get your team together, you know,
just like Mezi had to foresay with the two Change
Project to be you know, and to say, I want
to build relationships with people I see have something to
offer and give them my resources early because I see
(27:53):
what this can become. Build that kind of network with
your own people first and then consider going into a label.
Then you'll have actual tools and you'll actually have skills
to take into a building for marketing, for promotions, for
you know, for whatever, like you may even have you
know your own revenue story. By building up your own
artists that you can take into a label and become
(28:14):
part of the revenue department, you know. So for me,
my my suggestion wouldn't be immediately to go into a label.
Maybe intern at a label, but have your own thing
going on outside of a label.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
I agree measy.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
If someone is looking at you like, man, how can
I be as successful as easy?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Where?
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Where do they start? What would you say to them?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
I did like what you said earlier, left, look right, Yeah, that's.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
What I say. Like if you see, if you you
gotta figure out. Like I always knew, I always had
a gift a gap. I always knew how to communicate,
I always knew how to talk. I always knew I
loved music, always knew I had a good ear for music.
And I always knew how to help others. So it's like,
once you find your strengths and whatever, you know, your
strength is hone in.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
On it with the people around you.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
You know, whether you're a producer, same with producers, Like
I look at producers and a lot of producers want
the Rihanna place me. They want the jay Z place me,
they want the little Baby place me, they want the
twenty one Savage place men and those it's cool, but
the dude that's wrapping his ass off next to you.
Building from the ground up with somebody is the best
thing you can do, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
So that's what I'll say.
Speaker 5 (29:26):
Utilize your talents and look at the resources around you
and try to add to what those people need, and
they can add to.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
What you need.
Speaker 5 (29:34):
That's the best thing I could say. That's what I did,
you know what I'm saying. Me and Savage got together
because we're from the same side of town. He had
a dream and I had the same dream. We wanted
to go to the same place, and we had the
same vision, and we both did two different things to
be able to make it happen, came together and made
it bigger.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
That's dope, all right? Before we go, when you guys,
just a mental health check in. Yeah, when Keenan's having
a moment or a bad dam I know what you
call moments or bad days?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
What do you do?
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Man?
Speaker 2 (30:05):
What do I do?
Speaker 4 (30:06):
I do a few different things. I have a therapist
that I talked to. I get with him maybe every
other week. I may reach out to I'm a part
of a couple of different circles with brothers that we
communicate about what's going on in each other's lives. One
resource that I use is this out here is called
do your Google Brotherhood. They're based here in Atlanta. Really
(30:28):
Really Dope Brotherhood. You can find them on ig Really
Really Dope Brothers. That's leading that. Oh, I just you know,
tap in with my people that really know me best
and have a real conversation. Like I had a conversation
with one and one of my guys yesterday that was
going through and with his lady, and he was approaching
the conversation and a momentary issue from a place of ego,
(30:51):
and it was a beautiful thing for me. Even though
I wasn't having a bad day he was. I was
able to level set for that brother and have him
like retap in a way that was posted with his lady,
you know what I mean, And they were able to
reconnect in that moment. So, you know, it's just being
there for each other in those moments and having people
that you can actually lean on for those moments, you
know what I mean. That's important to you know, have
(31:11):
a little more vulnerability with the people that actually love
you and allow them into your space to be able
to help you.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
When you need it.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Is having a bad day or Ship's all over the place.
What does what does measy do? Call of duty?
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Okay, call of duty in it. Like I said, said that,
we got a group. We got a group besides. Besides,
I'll go to Magice sometimes having a bad day. But
we got a group chat too.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
With Ship. We just keep it up. We like keep
it real.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
Sometimes, bro, we be on that motherfucker. We'll start a
FaceTime and don't be doing Ship. We'll just all be
just talking and the nigga might just we talk about music,
we talk about whatever. If the nigga going through something,
they might throw it out. We give each other advice.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
We got a group chat. Yeah, I got a couple
of group chats. I'm in a group chat. I'm in
one group chat with him, and it's it's therapeutic. It's
their repauty for me. Honestly.
Speaker 5 (32:01):
Like it might be having a bad day and somebody
might say the right joke and it'd be like, ah, man,
you know what, let me interact with.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Them, and then it boosts my day a little better.
Speaker 5 (32:09):
It might not have been going that good, but you know,
sometimes that good energy being around you by genuine people helps,
you know, honestly, So that's what I do.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Like, man, we appreciate y'all. Anything else be t man,
it's a good episode.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
This is a good episode.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
This has been a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Man.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Was I was giving our game?
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Man, we just wanted to, you know, just start again
interviewing people that we care about, that we see doing
positive things that are humans too. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
I know you guys got a lot going on in
your plate.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
We appreciate you spending your time with us. Just know
these clip clip now, so anything said let us know
now that's our.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Producer, right.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
We ain't said nothing crazy.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
It's the ball or show
They get called broadcast line from Atlanta, Georgia. Wan't to
the ball show. I go by the name of fer.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I go by to that.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
You know, bat too, man.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
We got some special guests in the building, Keenan in
the building?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Maybe in the building? What's up? Fellas' real good?
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
What do you talk about? The rook like that?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Now? I know people are like, who the hell? How
the hell do we get these guys on here? Again?
I just wanted to talk to two people that I
very much respect. In the industry full of weirdos and
a whole bunch of bullshit going on.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
That's how you feel.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
We all know this.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I like to talk to people who stand on business.
I've never heard anything bad about either one.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Of you guys. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
In the industry full of.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
You know, we gotta gotta, we gotta give who these
guys are?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Okay, please introduce yourselves please.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Keenan Johnson originally from New York but been to Atlanta
since nineteen ninety two. Went to clark Land University. Music
industry well well well respected, I would say professional, been
the game twenty five plus years and basically from what
you're saying, I prod myself on being consistent. I think
that's why I've been able to be around so long,
(01:25):
and people should respect for me for so long because
I respect you.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Trying to be too humble man s VP. Interscope records
that year EVP EVP. Oh my bad, damn.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
How many years I was at Intersco for almost fifteen years? Yes,
started as a regional and worked my way up to
a EVP. Yeah, ended up running at the department over there.
So I'm not trying to be humble. I just figure
I was just gonna get into that a little bit.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
Okay, that's okay. Uh, Yeah, I'm easy. You know, anybody
from Atlanta, y'all know me. I'll just be chilling. Man.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
No, no, no, no, no. See see I first met this
guy man, he was promoting Yeah, and then all of
a sudden, I see this young guy with dreads fighting
in the club, and I've kept saying, who is this guy?
And then all of a sudden these were like, Hey,
the next one twenty one savage.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, I'm manager of twenty one President.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Are you also manager a producer?
Speaker 5 (02:17):
Yeah? Kid, Hazel, And I'm recently I'm just now creating
my management company.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
To kind of expand my roster as well. But yeah,
that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Can we wint my camera? He wasn't gonna say. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (02:27):
He definitely was gonna say, but can we talk about
who you recently signed?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Not right now?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Okay, we keep that on Instagram, but yeah, he but I.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Got I just yeah, I just got somebody who who's
super lit. Yeah, super lit.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
And I'm excited for the world to kind of see
what we do to grow what we got going on
for sure.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Okay, so my first question both of you guys are
when you first got into the industry, what are some
things that kind of made you say, damn, this is
some bullshit that I'm entering or did you have an
optimistic view of it? Nah?
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Not really. Honestly, when I first got into business, it
was a lot harder to get in. It was so
much gatekeeping going on back then. It was a lot
harder to get in.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
You know, the business was really based in New York
and LA for the most part. Back then. In Atlanta
was really just starting to pop back in the mid
in late nineties, So there wasn't a lot of true
business out here. There was a lot of a lot of.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Art out here in Atlanta, in Atlanta, but.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Not business yet. So the people that were down here
were people that were getting put on by their people.
And those people were doing this holding it tight, holding
it tight, and only putting on people that you know,
that they that they messed with, you know, or was
they homies or their cousins or whatever. So I remember
a time where you know, the executives that that I
that I saw coming up, they was assholes. This would
(03:48):
be perfectly honest. And what I what I what I
took from that was I'm gonna get on, but I
never want to make people feel like some of these
people made me feel when I was trying to come up.
So that's why I was, you know, rolled the way
I rolled, like I always wanted to just be me
at the end of the day, like be represented for
who I am as opposed to what I did.
Speaker 5 (04:05):
You know, Yeah, that's the same way with me. But yeah,
I just seen it with some bullshit from the promoter standpoint.
I seen niggas fake kick it. I've seen a lot
of shit. So when I came in, I was real,
like staying office. I was one of them. Fuck them niggas.
We don't need them niggas.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
If I fuck with you, I fuck with you. Fucked,
We'll fuck all that shit. And I've learned, you know,
through time, like you.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Gotta play politics and stuff and just to somebody else
in some type of way. You don't got to be
that way, you know, just staying on my character, you know,
So anybody who know me, No, I'm just I feel
like I hope that anybody runningto me just like, oh man,
he a cool.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Ass motherfucker first before.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
Like oh yeah, man, I'm man at twenty one savage
manager's that or I fake, you ain't gonna see me.
Speaker 6 (04:45):
But you never never even been like that, Like even
even when I first bet both of guys, y'all have
always been super cool.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Like I didn't even know.
Speaker 6 (04:53):
Like even when I first met you, I didn't even
know what you did with I was just like, dangn
it's a cool dude, Like yeah, he used to promote
and this and that, and now.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
He you know, he managed this artist.
Speaker 6 (05:02):
And I'm like, I'm like, oh that's fire, because you
don't you don't see people that gain that type of
success that you guys gained and that still keep a
level head because we used to people in the industry
being like assholes or like, oh, they.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Don't want to talk to you if you can't do
nothing for them.
Speaker 6 (05:18):
And that's that's another thing the industry gotta stop doing,
like stop being friends with people fake as you say,
fake kicking it because they can do something that they
can help you.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Well, I started from humble beginnings, like I started on
the street team BRO. So for me, like I couldn't
come in, you know, on a higher level acting like
something I never. I wasn't from the beginning. I came
literally from the bottom doing street promotions at Clarkland University,
like on days like this, putting out postal boards, putting
stickers on on goddamn walls, and all types of stupid
(05:48):
shit all through the winter, not getting paid. So for me,
it's like I literally grinded my way from not being
paid to an EVP bro. So never at any point
that I that I wanted to feel like or could
I feel like I was better than anyone, because actually
put it into work, So I can respect anybody that
puts into work, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
And Mesic you came from promoting, you came from kind.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
Of the same I was throwing parties, and I also
did street team work, like that's the first pack I
ever got was a two Chains album. That was my
first entry point into like the music business outside of
navigating how of throwing parties, because I remember one of
my parties got shot up.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I'll never forget.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
I was making a whole bunch of money and one
of my parties got shot up, and I remember my
life flashed for my eyes. I'm like, damn, my shit over.
I don't know how I'm gonna eat. I don't know
what I'm gonna do. And I remember sitting in the
house like what do you I would like because this
party shit is not about to last.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I don't know what I'm about to do. I'm like music,
and I remember I just.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Called Charlie Tech and al over there at Street is
X and it was like, man, just come over here.
And I did the street team work for Boats two Chains,
and then shit, I did really good at that, and
that's what made me just really fall in love with
like the music business and just learning more about it.
That's kind of like it was my entry point.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Stop right there. So you remember he's got you, said
Streeter Zax. I remember a time when there was a
lot it was not a lot of music executives in Atlanta. Yeah,
but then it became to where music is x X
moved to Atlanta and a lot of people from Atlanta
became music at X for sure. Can you pinpoint when
did you guys see that change?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yeah, for me, it was the La Face era. La
Face era. That's when I was in college and baby
Facing La Reed. They came in set up shopping in
Atlanta and they created that that vehicle La Face, which
brought us outcast TLC and all these these icons of music.
Uh usher you know. So they brought the foundation of
what became the new music hub for the for the
(07:40):
industry of Atlanta in the nineties, and I think Atlanta
grew from there. And don't get it wrong, you know,
Jermaine and Dallas they did their part as well, but
as far as bringing a full infrastructure of a big
label to the city, definitely that that office on P
Street was like oh shit, this is like this is
this can happen like this? Like I used to go
up there, My man Taya used to wear there. Who
(08:00):
I think you know that shit used to be like boomerang,
Like we were going there and people be dressed beautifully,
the women would look amazing. Everywhere you turned, everybody just
looked good, smelled good, felt good, and they was just
and they was popping out that shit. So, you know,
really set the foundation for what things could be and
what was fur the ground Atlanta to grow from from
there from that point on.
Speaker 5 (08:20):
Yeah, I mean, like I said, I grew up. I
grew up in seeing it. So I wasn't a time
where I didn't know that it wasn't able to happen
in Atlanta, you know, just because I'm little facing all
that stuff. I'm young, I was young. I'm thirty five,
so shit around that time, I ain't know much about music,
but I know music was always here, so I always
seen it, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
So what made what made you?
Speaker 6 (08:44):
I know you said that you you started working with
street executives, But what made you really start like getting
into like management, Like did you ever think you could
start manage? No?
Speaker 5 (08:52):
It was Charlie from streets he not with you know,
Charlie CEO was like man because I used to help artists,
but I would only help artists to get them for
free or for cheap, so I could make money at
the door. So I'm like helping work in their music,
doing whatever, making sure the DJ play the shit. I
don't give a fuck what I had to do because
I knew when two Chain changed his name from teddy
(09:13):
Boy to two Chains, I'm like, shit, I want to help.
Anything I need to do for two Chains, I'm gonna
do because when his mixtape release come, he gonna I
get it for free. So if I get it for
free and my door hit forty thousand and I make
twenty five percent of forty thousand, fine, you know. And
I got in the relationship. So I used to just
do stuff that marketers in different I used to do
stuff label people would do, and I didn't know what
(09:34):
I was doing. I'm just thinking whatever I can do
to build a relationship with the artists to make money.
So Charlie was like, look, bro, you can manage Do
you realize that you need to? And it was this
group called two nine that I was real close with,
nine Siege and Jason. He was like, man, you should
manage them. They are friends. You should try it. I'm like, damn,
I ain't ever think about it, but fuck it. That's
what made me move out my mama house. I moved
(09:56):
out my mama house and got an apartment right behind
Siege's house, bought them studio, and then, shit, I ain't
look back. That's when that was my entry point manager.
If it wasn't for Charlie, I would never thought about managing.
I just would have been throwing parties and trying to
figure it out, which is nothing wrong with that. I
still miss throwing parties. I had to stop on because
he was doing too much, so I had to stop
throwing the parties like I was trying to, Like he
(10:17):
was going out of town. I still had my percent,
but they got to the point where it's like I'm
not doing I'm not earning my money. So I just
gave my percent up and then that was it for
me with the parties. But I still wish I could
promote to this day. That's why when I get excited
when his birthday party come and shit like that, because
he give me that feeling of like, oh, y'all, come
fuck with us, we got this, we got that. I'm
really excited to promote anything, you.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Know, how exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
I'll get excited. How did you How did you and
Savage end up meeting.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
I knew him back.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
Shit if I'm three years older than him, so I
think I met him. This is just in Passing, just
because we grew up around the same people, like when
he was like twelve and I was like fifteen, seeing
him in Passing and then from there me throwing parties.
They will always come to the parties, bisections and stuff
like that. They was in the streets. They used to
fuck my parties up, like dough all these shit. He
was not a rapper whatsoever. So I just knew him
(11:09):
in Passing. I knew a lot of his older homeboys,
had a relationship with them, but they used to come
and from there. When he did start rapping, I was
just happy to see somebody who I knew for a
long time doing it and the music was good. So
I just was promoting him, pushing them just on some
like man, this nigga next, I know him like cool,
let's you know.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
That's how it was organic.
Speaker 5 (11:26):
Yeah, so I knew him before anything, like just just
in Passing, just growing up on the East Side.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
I could tell because it seems very organic between you two.
I could tell he cares about you. I can tell
you care about him. You know it's not transactional. Yeah,
as you can kind of tell from outside looking in
in certain situations, I could tell you guys have a
really good relationship.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I appreciate that. Yeah, are you doing a good job? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Because it's funny because when we went to Ruggs No
was it? Who party was? I forgot? Was at somebody
party and this uh savage saw you, like what you're
doing here, and it's like, damn, I'm trying to get
away from him.
Speaker 6 (12:04):
Stuff like that just shows me like how organic you
know your relationship is, because you really don't see that
a lot like a lot of times in this industry,
we see like, uh, like an art like a manager
like yourself, give with an artist and then as soon
as the artists blow up and they get big, so
what do they do? Snip snip switching later and then
they got a whole man, they got a whole management company,
(12:26):
and you don't help bring these artists, you know, to
the point to where where they at.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
And you know, you see, you see that so so
often in his industry.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
I'm blessed, bro, Like I know I'm blessed. I don't
it ain't no, I don't got no advice for nobody
and none. You gotta just pay. You got a real motherfucker.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
That's you.
Speaker 5 (12:48):
You know what I'm saying, the way you fuck with them,
because it's the percent the people that are like savage
is like two percent in the industry. So it's like,
don't think it's gonna it's it's it's rare for somebody
be loyal, you know, and locking the way you know
niggas is locked in. I was just talking to Shock
up about it before I got here. They going on
twenty five years together.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Yeah, wow, yeah, wow, shout out the shock.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
That's rare though, you know what I'm saying. So I'm blessed, man,
I'm blessed.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Okay, Kenan, I got a question, man. I know you
you was on the promo side for a very long time,
so you saw some things going no, no, no, no,
ain't going too crazy.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Hold on that.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
I wanted to ask you, like, what are some things
that you think an artist tends to blame the label
which is inaccurate?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
I want to good question because I worked at.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
The promo side year. I worked at war the records,
and you know, sometimes I saw when I had I
had a I had a corporate card, and I thought
that was cool.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I kept saying.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I was like, damn, I had to do my little
use expenses. I said, oh, this goes to the artist budget. Wow,
I just mons how to eat. Everybody was saying it
is we go to the bull artist. But what are
some things that you know are misconceptions that artists may say, Man,
(14:09):
it's y'all phone.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
I mean, I've seen many of times where you know,
as a promo guy, we've delivered you know, success, you
know for artists on records, you know, whether it be
number ones, top tens, top fives, but the man, it
a record doesn't work, y'all shit, y'alling. I've had that
happen many a time actually, and I don't even take
it personal. I just I know what it is. Like
(14:31):
I learned early in this game, it's a delicate dance
that we have to do as record people, especially on
the promo side, as far as building bridges and relationships
with artists, like to one degree, we're literally most times
the first line of defense when it comes to showing
them how to be artists in front of people, because
when they do promo, they're getting in front of people
like yourself, and a lot of times they don't really
(14:52):
have the tools to communicate properly, to actually have conversations
where they know how to give the right answers and
not put themselves in bad situations. So what happens with
that is you build the trust with these artists, you know,
in that process early on. So that's the great part.
Right on the way up, you're helping them build you
watching them grow, and they get all success. But then
(15:12):
to the point about the management part where people get
snip snipped. It's the same kind of dichotomy when they
get super big and all of a sudden they're not
as big as they were, and they may fucking deliver
a dud, and you may take that dud top ten
because that's the you know, you have an interest in
the staking of artists, you believe in them, you was
with them from the beginning. But this just ain't the record.
But they'll throw your ass under the bus, so god
damn quick and make your head spin. But I, like
(15:35):
I said, I ain't take a person at this point.
It's it's the game, you know. At the end of
the day, I would hope that my overall track record
of success across a lineage of artists speaks to my
what I contributed as opposed to what I did with
one artist or one record.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Now, let me ask you this, is it true that
you can pay for a number one record?
Speaker 4 (15:53):
I don't know nothing about that, Okay.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
I just see this on the internet all the time.
Speaker 6 (15:59):
Report you get, you get, you get industry experts, and
they were like, hey, it cost this to go to
number one. And you know when you see these artists
going number one is because the labels are doing let's
do it.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
I mean, let me let me start.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Let me, let me, let me, let me start.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
I'm from a different eraror bro. You have to pay
so much so for me, So for me, let's just
let's just get get this out the way. For me,
even speaking on platforms is a big deal one, that's
a fact. Speaking on gang business is even more of
a big deal for me. So for me, like whatever
is known, it is what it is. But at the
(16:34):
end of the day, you have to have a great
record in order to put it in position to go
number one. I'll say that, yes, are there budgets involved
with working records? Of course, there's budgets involved with every
department at a record label. Just like there's a digital
department that needs a budget to move things around, there's
a marketing department that needs a budget to move things around.
There's a radio budget as well. But if that record
ain't shit, that record's gonna stall at twenty because the
(16:55):
record ain't researching. So at the end of the day,
you need a really really good record that's connecting with
the with the with the audience in order fourth to
go number one? So can you pay for number one?
I wouldn't agree with that. Do you need a great
team to position a record to go number one and
a budget to support that? Of course absolutely, And that
was a good answer because the reason why I access
(17:16):
because people making it seem like it doesn't matter what
type of music it is, like you can instantly pay to.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Go number one.
Speaker 6 (17:25):
So that's why I'm glad we got experts in the
room to really break it down.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
So I get so many conversations about people who hire
independent people who and they say, man, I gave it
so and so personal this amount of money and my
record ain't even chart. Well, what's the record good?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
First of all?
Speaker 4 (17:40):
You know, let's start there, right, And sometimes you're dealing
with people who are maybe call themselves professional, but they're
just looking for a check. One thing I can say
about myself, and you know, I will choot my heart
in this regard. I never took no money that I
didn't believe in. If I didn't believe in the record
or believe in the artist, I'm not taking your bread.
It ain't work for you diminishing my my reputation for sure.
(18:02):
Like the headache is one thing, but my reputation is
a whole nother thing. That's why to this day I
can walk in any room my head high and no,
there's no one in that room that could say Keenan
did them dirty? Ever, you'll never find that person. If
they did, they full of shit, you feel me? So
you gotta you gotta with anything. You need to vet
the people that you're dealing with. But you also need
to vet your goddamn product. Yeah it's that product worthy?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Not for sure?
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Now measy. I know. Sometimes you gotta go hide sometimes
because motherfuckers probably be walking up to you, like bro,
blow me up like you did?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Savage?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
My boy, how can you take me there to that?
You say?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
What what they got? I can't, I can't, I can't.
I can't do that.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
But you know, I get even advice about looking left
and right, bro, looking to people, look at the people
around you, BROI try to build and make sure you
got passionate because one thing about us, we was pat like.
It was a time where, believe it or not, people
did not believe in twenty one Savage. They thought this
nigga was a crazy street nigga. I remember biggas come
to me like, Man, be careful, Bro. I don't man
(19:03):
this ship. Man, I don't know how long it's gonna last.
Get your money because of where he started, you know
what I'm saying. But it's when you find people that
genuinely believe, bro, it'll happen, don't you know. I feel
like sometimes look left and right and don't look up.
You know, look left and right, your people were right
around you. That's gonna help you build that ship, you
know a lot of times. So that's the best advice
I get. But you asking me to put you on,
(19:25):
I can't do it.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Well.
Speaker 6 (19:27):
What I would say, what's what's uh you know on
on your adventure going up? What's some of the craziest
things that y'all have to experience?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Like what you mean that.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
You can say things that you can say because I know,
I know, I know.
Speaker 6 (19:42):
At one point, you know, I saw you do an
interview or y'all talked about y'all. Y'all was like traveling
across country like in a in a small van, you know,
just just talking about the grind that people may not
see because of the sex that y'all have.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
Savage couldn't fly, so, you know, due to his you know,
nobody knew at the time, but you know, citizenship and
stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
We didn't just we never discussed it, but he.
Speaker 5 (20:03):
Could not fly. He didn't have ID. So everywhere we
went at the beginning, we drove everywhere. We used to
have to route our shows. Yeah, like if we did
a show in Kansas City, we couldn't take a show
in Miami the next day, no matter how much they
was paying.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
So we had to route the drive. So we knew, like,
oh we do these two shows.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
Cool, this takes twelve hours to drive here from there,
it's gonna be six hours here and then from there
to get back home, it's gonna be this.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
We used to have to ride it like that.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
Or when we met in LA for the labels, that
was a thirty five hour non stop drive drive to LA.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Back and forth. So we knew that was gonna take
a week.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Bro, it's gonna be two days drove to LA.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
All the time. We did that more than once.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
Two days to drive there, three days to do what
you need to be, two more days to get back home.
So we need, like we used to have to schedule
how we traveled just based off of us not being
able to fly for a long time till he got
enough money, and a lot of these niggas fly private
where they flew.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
At the time.
Speaker 5 (20:56):
He was one of the first niggas to take jets,
but a lot of niggas is taking jets flexing because
they spend their money just flying private.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Niggas. They understand we that was.
Speaker 5 (21:04):
The only y'all have to do li you know what
I'm saying, without him having to go through the process
of TSA and all that.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
So that's why we was flying private at first.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
Honestly, it wasn't a flex It was like, yeah, we
had to get Wow, I did not know that.
Speaker 6 (21:19):
Yeah, that's crazy. I mean, so at what point did
y'all have that conversation? Was that something that he was
like y'all gotta have a talk with you about.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Oh. No, I mean I knew it's something.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
It wasn't like people see the ice shit and see
it think like, oh, he scrambled to try to fix
something when to hit the fan.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
No, man, it's something this like his life.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
He's been working on this for before, Like this is
something that's been the top priority for him. It was
always something that you know, knew, But it's just nothing
that you you don't just want to go around talking about.
I had a friend who had a citizenship issue and
I didn't know until something happened with Savage and he
actually told me, and I been friends with him since
middle school.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
It's just something you don't ship.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
It's something you don't talk about because it was gonna
come from you talking about it, besides you endangering yourself,
you know what I'm saying. So the people that needed
to know new But it wasn't like one of them
things he hided from the world a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Oh, he wasn't really from Atlanta.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
He was cat Man that Nigga came in when he
was seven. That Nigga's from Atlanta, you know what I'm saying.
But he also can't just remind you that he's come
another country when he's trying to handle his immigration issues.
You know, he's not just about to Hey, yeah, by
the way, man, I got this going on.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Who's gonna talk about it? Yeah, that's kind of how
that worked.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I wanted to give him his flowers, man in front
of you, because I always say this on the radio.
I always say this every podcast, dag. He is very
consistent bro in a lane in the industry with a
lot of Sometimes artists go up in peaks and valleys
with artists. He is still peaking, bro. Like I'm talking about,
every time he dropped, we got at least four bangers
(22:50):
at the same time and another four in the club.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I appreciate it to that.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Where does that come from?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Man? That nigga hustler. Man, he know and he pay
attention to the game.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
So like we watched the game, we watch what needs
to be done, what don't need to be done, what
we can change, how people feel about us, how people
feeling about other people, the.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Temperature, everything. You know, he pay attention to everything.
Speaker 5 (23:12):
He not just some nigga going into booth rapping and
you know, nah, he knows he has intention on everything
he does. He knows what he needs to do, he
knows what's expected of him, and he know where he
wanted to take his career and where he wanted to
take his life.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
At the end of the day, man, shit, he hustled.
He know this shit paying. He ain't about to fuck
it up. Why would you want to suck it up?
You gotta make it bigger, get the checks bigger, man.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
That's how he thinks, honestly, and he actually be rapping
rapping like I gotta no for like because I watched
the journey as well, and I gotta be honest with you.
In the beginning, I was like, these niggas look crazy
as fuck. Ye what is these niggas talking about?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
You know?
Speaker 4 (23:47):
And I'm staying away from that shit. Like, so I
got to give you, like give flowers as well, for one,
having the foresight to see the talent that was there
and be able to be able to nurture it and
you grow along with him at the same time, because
I watched him grow and become this young man. It's
like really like a pillar, Like he gives back so
much in the community and I love to use it
(24:07):
just this analogy, like you know, people always look back
at who people were in the beginning, but we have
to remember there is no Malcolm X with our mounc
and little you feel that. And I apply that same
analogy to people like Savage, Like I watch who he
is today. He's an amazing human being and the way
the way you guys as as as a team give
back and just contribute to community.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Salute, Nah, thank you, I mean a lot, bro, No listen, bro,
anytime I can give him his flowers, because I always
feel like people just purposely leave him off.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I'm over here, like the reason why I just tweeted
that the other day.
Speaker 5 (24:40):
He's not in a lot of conversations in my opinion,
because he raps and moves out the way.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, he don't talk.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
He don't.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
That's why I raise my hand and say, twenty one
savurage about it in there.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Bro, He not in the mix. He not on the
blalls for nothing.
Speaker 5 (24:54):
Everything you see by some music related is nothing really, Like,
you know, he's not really the conversation. When he drops
his music, he does what he does, then he falls
back and it's a gift in the curse, you know.
So I feel like that's the thing when it comes
to conversations, it's one of them. Oh yeah, twenty one,
like you don't just sometimes people don't think of it
first because of how he moves. He's like more reserved,
(25:14):
more quiet to himself. He's not really all out and about.
You don't see him holding hands with holes, running out
of club going viral for that.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Well, it's my camera. That's why it's more. People like
me need to come out and start saying, twenty one savage.
You gotta have some more champions, bro, you feel me,
come on out there and start talking about twenty one
savage little bit more.
Speaker 6 (25:33):
But that's that's how you know he making good music
though not to cut like, you know, an artist is
making good music when they don't have to do all
the antics and stuff like that. I think that's another
reason why an artist like Rod Wave is so popular,
because you don't really hear nothing about him, you know,
just the music.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
He let the music speak man, and the people speak
through the music. That's how it is. I mean he dropped,
you gonna know, because the people listening to it, that's
the most important thing, all right.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
So to each one of you guys, Keenan, I had
you go first, if someone wants to get into the
label business and they're young, m what would you say
to them, Man, they don't know what to do well,
where to start?
Speaker 4 (26:15):
I would say, now is the best time, more than never,
to lean into your independence. To be perfectly honest, you know,
the label business, you know, as you know, you know
I was. I got caught up in the restructuring that
happened at Universal earlier last year, back in March. And
the fact is there's a lot of great people on
(26:36):
the outside of a label right now. So the reason
I say for people who are in the beginning on
the way up to maybe build on the independent level
is because that's what the opportunities are.
Speaker 6 (26:45):
Like.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
There's so many opportunities for you to put off music
on your own, you know, get your own distribution deals,
build with a team, and actually figure this shit out
early before you have something to deliver to a label.
So by the time you get to the point to
get into a label, you actually have some equity built up.
And if you're going inside, you're going inside for a reason.
You're going inside for even more resources, right and the
(27:07):
check in addition to the resources, as opposed to when
you going too early most times you end up gett
fucked just being honest, Like most artists that go in
too early, you know, with just the music to offer
and just a little bit of a buzz, they get
the deal they got. It's cool and it may be
an opportunity, but you got to remember at a label,
there's so many artists that are vying for the attention
of the label to become a priority. If you not,
(27:30):
if you're not driving them to make your priority because
you're actually delivering, you're probably not going to get the
look that you want, that you truly want initially. So
I would advise anybody like, get your team together, you know,
just like Mezi had to foresay with the two Change
Project to be you know, and to say, I want
to build relationships with people I see have something to
offer and give them my resources early because I see
(27:53):
what this can become. Build that kind of network with
your own people first and then consider going into a label.
Then you'll have actual tools and you'll actually have skills
to take into a building for marketing, for promotions, for
you know, for whatever, like you may even have you
know your own revenue story. By building up your own
artists that you can take into a label and become
(28:14):
part of the revenue department, you know. So for me,
my my suggestion wouldn't be immediately to go into a label.
Maybe intern at a label, but have your own thing
going on outside of a label.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
I agree measy.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
If someone is looking at you like, man, how can
I be as successful as easy?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Where?
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Where do they start? What would you say to them?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
I did like what you said earlier, left, look right, Yeah, that's.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
What I say. Like if you see, if you you
gotta figure out. Like I always knew, I always had
a gift a gap. I always knew how to communicate,
I always knew how to talk. I always knew I
loved music, always knew I had a good ear for music.
And I always knew how to help others. So it's like,
once you find your strengths and whatever, you know, your
strength is hone in.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
On it with the people around you.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
You know, whether you're a producer, same with producers, Like
I look at producers and a lot of producers want
the Rihanna place me. They want the jay Z place me,
they want the little Baby place me, they want the
twenty one Savage place men and those it's cool, but
the dude that's wrapping his ass off next to you.
Building from the ground up with somebody is the best
thing you can do, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
So that's what I'll say.
Speaker 5 (29:26):
Utilize your talents and look at the resources around you
and try to add to what those people need, and
they can add to.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
What you need.
Speaker 5 (29:34):
That's the best thing I could say. That's what I did,
you know what I'm saying. Me and Savage got together
because we're from the same side of town. He had
a dream and I had the same dream. We wanted
to go to the same place, and we had the
same vision, and we both did two different things to
be able to make it happen, came together and made
it bigger.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
That's dope, all right? Before we go, when you guys,
just a mental health check in. Yeah, when Keenan's having
a moment or a bad dam I know what you
call moments or bad days?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
What do you do?
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Man?
Speaker 2 (30:05):
What do I do?
Speaker 4 (30:06):
I do a few different things. I have a therapist
that I talked to. I get with him maybe every
other week. I may reach out to I'm a part
of a couple of different circles with brothers that we
communicate about what's going on in each other's lives. One
resource that I use is this out here is called
do your Google Brotherhood. They're based here in Atlanta. Really
(30:28):
Really Dope Brotherhood. You can find them on ig Really
Really Dope Brothers. That's leading that. Oh, I just you know,
tap in with my people that really know me best
and have a real conversation. Like I had a conversation
with one and one of my guys yesterday that was
going through and with his lady, and he was approaching
the conversation and a momentary issue from a place of ego,
(30:51):
and it was a beautiful thing for me. Even though
I wasn't having a bad day he was. I was
able to level set for that brother and have him
like retap in a way that was posted with his lady,
you know what I mean, And they were able to
reconnect in that moment. So, you know, it's just being
there for each other in those moments and having people
that you can actually lean on for those moments, you
know what I mean. That's important to you know, have
(31:11):
a little more vulnerability with the people that actually love
you and allow them into your space to be able
to help you.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
When you need it.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Is having a bad day or Ship's all over the place.
What does what does measy do? Call of duty?
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Okay, call of duty in it. Like I said, said that,
we got a group. We got a group besides. Besides,
I'll go to Magice sometimes having a bad day. But
we got a group chat too.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
With Ship. We just keep it up. We like keep
it real.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
Sometimes, bro, we be on that motherfucker. We'll start a
FaceTime and don't be doing Ship. We'll just all be
just talking and the nigga might just we talk about music,
we talk about whatever. If the nigga going through something,
they might throw it out. We give each other advice.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
We got a group chat. Yeah, I got a couple
of group chats. I'm in a group chat. I'm in
one group chat with him, and it's it's therapeutic. It's
their repauty for me. Honestly.
Speaker 5 (32:01):
Like it might be having a bad day and somebody
might say the right joke and it'd be like, ah, man,
you know what, let me interact with.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Them, and then it boosts my day a little better.
Speaker 5 (32:09):
It might not have been going that good, but you know,
sometimes that good energy being around you by genuine people helps,
you know, honestly, So that's what I do.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Like, man, we appreciate y'all. Anything else be t man,
it's a good episode.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
This is a good episode.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
This has been a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Man.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Was I was giving our game?
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Man, we just wanted to, you know, just start again
interviewing people that we care about, that we see doing
positive things that are humans too. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
I know you guys got a lot going on in
your plate.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
We appreciate you spending your time with us. Just know
these clip clip now, so anything said let us know
now that's our.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Producer, right.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
We ain't said nothing crazy.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
It's the ball or show
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