2025-05-20 - BBI

UK opens SEC baseball tournament play; (10:00) one SEC school might not be willing to cooperate with the upcoming NIL rules; (18:00) the incredible story of Sunday Silence, Preakness winner on this day in 1989; (39:00) David Sisk of Cats Illustrated and (59:00) Forrest Tucker from WTVQ-TV...

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, Oklahoma against a little revenge for getting swept by
the Wildcats in Lexington, as the Sooners eleven eight Kentucky
by the final score of five to one here at
the SEC Tournament.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
That's how the game ended.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Darren Hedrick called it on the UK netwhere Kentucky falling
to Oklahoma.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Five to one.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Wildcats flatter it seemed today then last week's club soda.
They lose to an Oklahoma team they swept last weekend,
So now their fate is in the hands of the
selections committee. Wildcats with just twenty nine wins on the
year and yeah, thirteen of them in SEC play. But Kentucky,
which put runners on base in each of the first

(00:37):
re innings in scoring position, but they were one for
seven with runners in scoring position, scored one run thanks
to an Oklahoma error. Five to one was the final,
So now their fate is a real mystery. Nick Menzione
appeared on the SEC Network yesterday with Paul Finebaum and
broke down some numbers, which I find fascinating, especially with

(00:58):
baseball such a numbers game. But I remember talking to
Gary Henderson a few years ago about one of those
years where Kentucky was so close. You know, in certain situations,
might have been here, they were ranked number one in
the country a couple of times, but just to win
here or there, and wins come down oftentimes to one inning,
which can come down to one pitch or one play,

(01:20):
just so many moments. And you can say this about
a lot of different sports, but we're talking about baseball here,
and it just seems like baseball is easier to crunch
numbers of this sort. And Minjeo, and being an analytics guy,
has gone through and he's done the math. He's done
it simple arithmetic, really, and he broke down some of
these numbers for Fine Baumb when he was describing what

(01:42):
the regular season was like for Kentucky, which came so
close so many times to winning a series. And that's
what's about, of course, in the regular season in the SEC,
we talk about it all the time on TV side,
Darren talks about it on radio side. Win the series
at home that you have and maybe get one win
on the road and you're in great shape and pull

(02:05):
off a surprise on the road, two or even three
wins on the road in one weekend. Now you're contending
for an SEC championship, which Kentucky won last year. That's
how the Wildcats did it. For the most part. They
took care of business at home and got some big
wins on the road because they were able to take
advantage when the moment was right there for the taking.

(02:29):
And they've come up just short this year in so
many ways. And here's how MinJe O described it mathematically
to Paul Feinbaum on the SEC Network.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
This is crazy, but in an average SEC game, the
average SEC team throws one hundred and fifty four pitches
in a game.

Speaker 4 (02:46):
Now, so you times out by.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Two, there's about three hundred and eight moments in every
single game. Well, for us, when you look at it
and you break it down that way, we've had nine thousand,
six hundred and sixty eight moments in our thirty game season.
We are five plays away from winning four more SEC
series and winning eight, which only Texas did, and we

(03:11):
are nine plays away out of that nine, six hundred
and sixty eight from being back to back SEC champions
nine plays.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
I knew they were close to being much much better
in terms of their record. I didn't realize. I guess
if I had sat down and pulled out a pencil
and figured it out. Yeah, I knew they could have
won more series, but they were that close. And the
reason is to an SC title again because as good
as Texas was, as good as a Florida was good

(03:39):
as a lot of teams were, nobody ran off and
hid with the SEC title.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Vandy has done in the past.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
Other teams have done it, but there was so much
parody this year, and there's always going to be now.
I think that nobody ran away with it. And look,
Kentucky won one game over Texas right in Lexingon, could
have won, two, might have won, three, might have swept.
The Longhorns. Had enough moments, had enough opportunities, and if

(04:08):
Kentucky had, Texas wouldn't have won the SEC championship. That's
where things turn in the Southeastern Conference. It is so
hard to win. But that's what made last year so special.
And as men Geones said, he believes this team is
a really good team, and he has said it all year.

(04:30):
He hasn't complained, he hasn't you know, talked about injuries.
He's talked about how well they've played at times, how
they've come up short, but he still has never stopped
being proud of this ball club.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
I'm really proud of this team, and we really believe
we're one of the best teams in the country because
we're battle tested and we've been through it. And I
would say there's thirteen or fourteen teams in our league
that believe that.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
And that's why.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yeah, you're gonna have one team win this tournament, obviously,
but the other teams in the tournament that that get
bids to the NCAA, they'll know going in in Kentucky
included that, Hey, you know, we might have lost in Hoover,
but we're still good enough to win in Omaha.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
And you may well see that. You may see a.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
Team that didn't win the SEC title. Now Tennessee did
it last year, but you may see a team from
the SEC they got knocked out in Hoover and jump
up and win in Omaha. Because you're not playing day
after day after day. You get a little bit of
respite in Omaha. But you got to win that first one.
That's the key. That's one of the keys, the other key,

(05:38):
just as it is in the SEC tournament. And men
Jones said this prior to today's game to find Bomb,
but he has said it all year again when fine
Baum asked him in terms of pulling Kentucky through these
close games that the Wildcats they won some, they've lost
too many. But fine Baum said, if you could wave

(05:58):
a magic wand what might that turnaround be?

Speaker 1 (06:02):
I believe it comes down to one thing. If you
said manage, put it into one word, I would say,
it comes down execution. That's it, plain and simple for
our players to execute what we are trained to do
and what we're capable of doing. If we do that
one thing and we execute at a high level, with
tremendous focus, tremendous energy and persistence, we'll like the result.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
So ask yourself, did they execute today? Yes? Or no?

Speaker 3 (06:29):
And can they keep executing once they get into the
NCAA tournament if they get a bid. But after losing today,
twenty nine and twenty four, and I've seen Kentucky teams
with better records not get a bid. But the SEC
wasn't nearly as tough. You get a lot more credit
these days for winning an SEC game, winning an SEC series,

(06:53):
And the Wildcats did win four and it might come
down to that series win at Tennessee when Kentucky really
he was at its best. So now they've got to
sit and wait until next Monday at noon. That's when
the selection show is. That's when the Wildcats will learn
their fate. So five won the final the loss to Oklahoma.

(07:16):
One other note in the SEC this was a pretty
big headline not related to baseball, and that was finally
the rumors are over and its official. Florida has landed.
Boogie flanned through the portal.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
You'd heard about this.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
Had he pulled his name from the NBA consideration, he
would end up at Florida. That's exactly what happened on Sunday.
He pulled his name and now he's a Gator, and
it makes sense. He's represented by Mike Miller, a former
Florida Gator. Ask yourself this though, why does he leave

(07:52):
Arkansas when you know that Caliperi, at least his past
year was running everything.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
Through him before he got hurt.

Speaker 3 (08:01):
I firmly believe Arkansas was better after Flann got hurt
and then came back, and everybody had gotten.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Used to being involved in the offense.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Prior to that, it was like give the ball to
Boogie and get out of his way, and they struggled.
He goes down Arkansas finds itself. Boogie comes back makes
him better. But now with ironically enough, Denzel Aberdeen leaving
for Kentucky, that might be why he sees an opening

(08:30):
in Gainesville. Maybe he's the point guard. Well, he will
be the starting point guard for Todd Golden down in Gainesville.
And this gives Florida a really nice class out of
the portal. Flann was rated the eighth best player in
the portal. Had to be because he was coming back
off that injury. But you know a guy who was

(08:53):
five star coming out of high school and insanely talented
and now joins the defending national champs. Now, of course
they lose Walter Clayton Jr. Among others, but they get
Xavion Lee out of the portal from Princeton.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
They get aj Brown from Ohio.

Speaker 3 (09:11):
You you might not heard those names, which you will
when the Gators take on the Wildcats this year. And
of course Boogie Flynn was going to be a Wildcat
until Caliperi left, but now he is a Florida Gator.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
It's official. When we come back.

Speaker 3 (09:28):
There is controversy brewing with the proposed changes to the
nil one SEC school in particular may not be cooperating
a little bit later on the incredible story of Sunday Silence.
In nineteen eighty nine, on this date he won the
preak Mistakes, the second Jewel of Racing's Triple Crown, after

(09:48):
twice literally defying death. We'll talk about that a little
bit later on David Siske of Cats Illustrated Forrest Tucker WTVQ.
That and more come out up right here on six
thirty WLAP Welcome back to the Big Blue Insider. Coming
up at the bottom of the hour, a great story
about Sunday Silence. It was on this date in nineteen

(10:10):
eighty nine that he won the second jeweler Racings Triple Crown.
He won the Derby and then followed up with one
of the greatest Preakness finishes of all times, right up
there with the one we saw this year, different but
right up there with it. So and it's a great
story that began one county over in Bourbon County, on
Stone Farm in Paris. And we'll hear from Arthur Hancock,

(10:33):
who owns Sunday Silence, and we'll hear from him a
conversation that he had ten or eleven years ago with
a blood horse. But all the backstory about Sunday Silence.
It's an incredible story and he's one of my all
time favorite horses. So if you'll indulge me, that's coming
up at the bottom of the hour. I wanted to
point out if you haven't seen this yet, you know,
if you're a college sports fan, and if you're listening

(10:54):
to the show, thank you, and I'm sure you are,
that the House Settlement ruling is imminent. Right, that's supposed
to bring some guard rails, some enforcement to NIL, which
is right now the scourge of college athletics. But the
state of Tennessee has plopped itself squarely.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
In the way. And here's how.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
Back on the first of May, Governor Bill Lee quietly
signed a six page state bill, Tennessee Senate Bill number
five thirty six. According to Yahoo's Sports, they dug it
out last week, and that paves the way for state
schools in Tennessee, UT, Vandy, Memphis, et cetera, and their

(11:42):
affiliated collectives to break House Settlement related rules and prevents
college sports New Enforcement Entity from penalizing those schools. I
mean this is directed squarely at the INNSA membership power
conferences and their desire to police the revenue sharing era

(12:06):
of college sports takes aim at any athlete compensation cap
and any penalties for rule breakers and policies that prevent
phony booster backed image, name, image and likeness deals to players.
What they basically did was say, we're going to do
whatever we damn well please, and by our state law,
there's nothing you can do to hurt us within the

(12:28):
state of Tennessee. What's to stop other states from doing
the same things? Now, Power conferences, according to the story,
have plans to combat such laws. You have officials from
the Big Tennis he see Big twelve acc There's a
draft of what Yahoo describes as groundbreaking, first of its

(12:49):
kind document intended to prevent these schools from using their
state laws to violate the new enforcement rules and requires
schools this is Big now to waive their right to
pursue legal challenges against the new enforcement entity called the
College Sports Commission. And remember, this is what everybody, fans, administrators, coaches,

(13:17):
players not so much, have been calling for from day one.
Guard rails everybody said, it's the wild West out there.
And there are people, some administrators who had said, you know,
we really don't like the terminology.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
So what it fits.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
It is the wild West, and it's ruining college athletics.
Not that players should get what's coming to them, but
it's just a little too crazy right now.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
Isn't it.

Speaker 3 (13:43):
So they came up with this design, and now the
state of Tennessee jumps in and says, no, Now, we're
gonna do whatever we want, and we're gonna make it
so there's nothing you can do about it. Well, now
the power conferences are pushing back, and dozens of leading
school administrators, it says, are checking out this document. It

(14:06):
would bind institutions to the enforcement policies. They basically would
have to agree, all right, we want to be a
part of the NCAA, or if you want to do
a way of the nca and give it a new initial,
who cares? Whatever it is this membership, this group, if
you want to be a part of it, you got
to follow the rules.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
And there's nothing wrong with that.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
So, and it also says, even if their state law
is contradictory, it would exempt the CSC from lawsuits from
member schools over enforcement decisions, offering instead a route for
schools to pursue arbitration. Arbitration, how about that membership agreement affiliation,

(14:50):
call it whatever you want. But a draft of this
contract's been distributed to a lot of school presidents, general councils,
athletics directors have expressed legal concerns with several of the
document's concepts, and so they're trying to hammer them out right.
But in the state of Tennessee, they're trying to fight

(15:11):
at all. Why because they want their schools to have
a leg up on everybody else. Whether this enforcement policy
takes rute or not, the College Sports Commission, whether it
takes rude or not. We in Tennessee are saying, you can't.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
Tell us what to do. We're gonna do whatever we
damn will.

Speaker 3 (15:33):
Please, and if you try to stop us, we will
sue you. And I already saw one commentator on Twitter
say Greg Sanki, not that Sankie could do it, and
not that they're gonna do it, but said Greg Sanki
should kick Tennessee out of the sec That ain't gonna happen.

(15:54):
But this could get messy, This could get bloody. But
one athletic director said, you have to sign it or
we don't play you. As a condition of membership, you
must comply with a settlement and enforcement says one president,
or you're out. This is going to get tied up
in the courts. Lawyers are going to get rich. But

(16:15):
this has to happen in order to save college athletics.
It's going to be easier to deal with the portal.
They can pass a rule saying you can come through
the portal as many times as you like, but after
the first one you gotta sit. That to me seems
like it's going to be on the way. But this
involving all the nil dollars is going to be a
lot more complicated.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
A couple of other notes before we hit the brakes.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
Ryan Ritter, former Kentucky Gold Gloves shortstop, is the Pacific
Coast League Player of the Week. He plays for the
Albuquerque Isotopes Go Topes. That's a Homer Simpsons favorite team,
the Springfield Isotopes. But Ritter last week get This delivered
either a game time or winning hit in the ninth
inning of three straight games wins over Tacoma and in

(17:05):
that series ten for twenty two with four doubles, two triples,
and a homer. We all knew this watching him, he
knew he'd be. He's already special when he was at Kentucky.
The only thing that held him back a little bit
was his bat, but he had shown flashes of brilliance
at the plate. And once he gets that worked out,
he'll be in the biggs, and he'll be in the

(17:26):
biggs for good. Finally a tip of the BBI Captain
our man, Sewan Woods. He'll be with us on the
air schedules permitting tomorrow. He has been named the coach,
the head coach of La Familla.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
For this coming year.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
He was an assistant last year and takes over coaching
the team the head coach now that he's the head
coach at Scott County High by the Way for this
coming tournament. So we'll talk to Sean about that tomorrow night.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
All right.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
Up next to great story about Sunday sile Ons how
he survived a near death experience literally to bounce back
when the Derby win the Preakness, which happened on this
day in nineteen eighty nine, and in I number two,
David Sisk of Cats illustrated Forrest Tucker of WTVQ back
in a minute on six thirty WLAP Welcome back to

(18:15):
the Big Blue Insider. It was on this day in
nineteen eighty nine that Sunday Silence won the Preakness Stakes.
This is the time of year when people pay attention.
Even if you're not a horse racing fan, you pay
some attention, especially Derby Week, of course, but if there's
a triple crown up for grads and sadly there is
not this year, but there was in nineteen eighty nine,

(18:37):
and the reason was because of a horse that was,
by you know, usual thoroughbred standards, not the prettiest animal
you're going to see. And his name was Sunday Silence
and he was black, technically dark.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Brown, but black.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
You know, you've got to qualify in a certain way
to be in the jockey club black, but Sunday Silence
jet black. Again, not the prettiest of horses, but man
could he run. And it's a great story. This is why,
if you'll indulge me, I'm going to share it with you,
because I covered that horse as the Thoroughbred Racing Guy

(19:15):
at WKYT Channels twenty seven, and to me, it was
a great story because he was owned locally. He was
winning his way to Churchill Downs out in California, but
Arthur Hancock owned him. Arthur of course, from Stone Farm
over outside of Paris and Bourbon County, the brother of
Seth Hancock, part of that Clayburn Farm family. It's a

(19:37):
famous story. Bull Hancock was the great horseman who created
Clayburn Farm, and then when he died, the board of
directors named Seth the younger brother, to run the farm,
not Arthur, the older brother. So Arthur set off and
bought his own land, created his own farm called Stone Arm.

(20:00):
He liked the name Stone just because it was, you know,
of the earth, that kind of thing. And I got
to know Arthur and his wife, Stacy, who grew up
in Louisville as I did. She went to Westport High School,
which doesn't exist anymore. But Westport High School was one
mile away from from my home. If I had not
gone to Trinity, which was one mile this direction toward

(20:22):
the west, one mile east was Westport High School. In fact,
I went to summer school there to take typing because
I wanted to be a journalist.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
All right, there you go.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
So anyhow, I got to be very friendly with the Hancocks,
and I began to really follow Sunday Silence his progress
derby week. I got there on Monday morning, and I
liked him because he had won the Santa Nita Derby.
But Easy Goer was the horse. Easy Goer was a
son of the great Ali Dar, you know, the horse

(20:49):
that came in second to a firm and all three
legs at a triple Crown in nineteen seventy eight, and
he was supposedly the greatest horse to look through a
bridle in the last twenty five fifty years or whatever.
Big beautiful red horse reminded people of Secretariat was coming
through New York, so he had New York height behind
him and a great trainer in Suge McGee, and Sunday

(21:12):
Silence was kind of he wasn't a little horse, but
in terms of his reputation was, you know, shaping up
as the little horse that could. But the reason I
bring it up is because the Preakness Stakes that he
won after he won the Derby was probably still the
greatest Preakness steaks that I had ever seen leading up
to this recent one where Journalism managed to fight his

(21:35):
way to the finish line two different types of races,
because in eighty nine it was Sunday Silence and easygo
or battling down the stretch one on one.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
You'll hear that in a moment.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
But when I was looking at this year's Preakness, asking myself,
was it the greatest I've ever seen? I had to
go back to one of my favorites in eighty nine.
But let's back it up. Sunday Silence was lucky to
be there. He got really, really sick when he was
a weanling and survived this terrible virus that might have
killed him, but he didn't pass the eyeball test. He

(22:08):
was not the prettiest of horses, and in a great coincidence,
he was bred and owned by oak Cliff's Stables, the.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Guy who owned that outfit out of Texas.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
Oak Cliffe is a part of Dallas. That's where I
lived when I was in Dallas. I didn't know that
until recently. He was bred known by Oakliffe Stables at first,
but as Arthur Hancock told Bloodhorse Magazine, there's a video
on YouTube, he was not a pretty horse. And one
of the people who worked for oak Cliff Stables, owned
by Tom Taysam, There's a guy named Ted Keefer who

(22:41):
made a pointed comment when the colt was just a
foal and hadn't turned black. And he was kind of
silver gray running around the paddock and some people liked him,
but this guy named Ted Keeper did not.

Speaker 5 (22:53):
And one time they brought him out and Ted said,
put that some bitch up said I've seen him enough.
This was another time and Pete Logan said, Miss Pete
said this. He said, mister Keith said the roses looked
mighty pretty around his neck, and Ted said, the only

(23:15):
time that sun bitch will have roses on him is
when he's six feet under the ground. And I'm staying
there thinking, what is this so eerie?

Speaker 4 (23:25):
You know this?

Speaker 3 (23:25):
He hated this horse, And again that's Arthur Hancock talking
to the Blood Horse magazine on camera. Might have hated
the horse just because the horse was funny looking, who knows.
So they put him in the July Select sale at Keenlan, right,
but they didn't think he'd get much, And sure enough
the bidding came in and they didn't even get what

(23:48):
they were hoping to get. So Arthur stepped in.

Speaker 5 (23:50):
They put him in the sale in the summer sale
at Keenlan and he was going to go for ten eleven,
twelve thousand, and I jumped in, started bidding, brought bought
him back for seven and I took the ticket out
to Time behind the pavilion, said Time, I bought that
cold back for the wishing Well cold because he.

Speaker 4 (24:09):
Went too cheap. And he said, Arthur, we don't want him,
because Ted doesn't like him. And I had I said okay.
I handed him the you know, the.

Speaker 5 (24:19):
Sales slip and I said okay, and I stuck it
in my short pocket and I remember thinking, well, I
guess I just blew another seventeen downs.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
I owed a lot of money at the time.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
And that's the part of thoroughbred racing that a lot
of people who don't like it don't understand. It's not
simply a bunch of rich people playing with their toys.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
There are jobs on the line every week, every month,
every year.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
There are smaller farms and employ people and you know,
provide for the tax base in the state of Kentucky
and other states. So it's kind of a misunderstood sport
in my opinion. And in talking to Arthur through the years,
he made me understand that, you know, he had a
mortgage he had borrowed against land, things like that, He's
trying to make ends meet doing the one thing he

(25:07):
knew best, and that was thoroughbred racing. So moving ahead,
they send the horse to California to try to sell
him as a two year old, and once again he
doesn't get nearly the money that they needed, so they
decide to bring him back. Well, he's in a van
with other horses and somewhere in South Texas, the driver
of the van has a heart attack and dies, crashes.

(25:31):
One or two of the other horses was killed. Sunday
Silence was seriously injured. But he comes back and they
think he's never going to race again. They just turned
him out the field and they thought, well, we'll just
try to sell him as a saddle horse or something.
But within a week to ten days he was racing
around the field looking like a racehorse again.

Speaker 5 (25:52):
It's the perfect tale of the ugly duckling turning into
a swan.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
So when he had fully recovered, they send him to
cal to Charlie Whittingham, the Hall of Fame trainer since passed,
but back then known as one of the greatest in
the history of the game. And Charlie on the phone
one morning told Arthur, you know this, this this black
sob that you named Sunday Silence. Arthur pulled that name
from a Chris Christofferson song. Arthur was a big songwriter anyway, Uh,

(26:23):
Whittingham said.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
This, this horse can run a little bit.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
So they ran him at age two, didn't win anything,
was second in a maiden, second in an allowance race.
But at age three they raced him at Santa Anita.
He wins an allowance race, then he wins the San Felipe,
then he wins the Santa Anita Derby. So now the
ugly duckling has become a swan, and now he qualifies

(26:50):
for the Kentucky Derby. So obviously Arthur Hancock's excited, and
they ship him east. And I will never forget spending
a lot of time on the backside that week with
the Hancocks. And I was walking over to the barn
on Thursday after Sunday. Silence worked a half mile in

(27:12):
forty five and change of forty six, and Arthur had
just left Charlie Whittingham side, and he was blown Arthur
was blown away by the work, and he was more
impressed after he had talked to Charlie as they walked
back to the barn.

Speaker 4 (27:26):
And we were walking back and Charlie.

Speaker 5 (27:29):
Said, my boy, we will get the money Saturday. I said, Charlie,
you really think so? He said, my boy, we will
get the money. I said, what do you think of
his work? He said, well, a good horse will work
like that. He said, this is a good horse. I said,
you really think we can beat easy Gore? He said
it was the third time he said we will get

(27:50):
the money.

Speaker 3 (27:52):
And I didn't know this until I watched this video
from Blood Horse. I didn't know that they had had
that conversation. I probably should have because I come up
to Arthur and I said.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
How did he look? What did you think? And he
told me the time.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
He knew the time at that point of the work,
and his eyes were bugging out of his head and
he looked right through me and he goes, that's a
heck of a work. I said yeah, and then he
said it again. Arthur said, that's a heck of a work.
That was the point where I became convinced this is
the horse I need to bet on in the Kentucky Derby,
not Easygoer.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
Sunday.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
Silence would be my key horse, my big money horse,
right And at that point Arthur still wasn't sure the
horse could win the derby and beat Easygoer, but he
thought he could get a piece of the purse and
pay some bills.

Speaker 5 (28:39):
I mean, I owed a ton of money, and I
had bought all this land, you know, and a lot
of horses.

Speaker 4 (28:46):
And then was eighty eight that.

Speaker 5 (28:48):
Crash came and what was worth a dollar in a
land or horses became worth about thirty cents. I thought, well,
you know, if we run second, that that wouldn't be bad.

Speaker 4 (28:58):
And then we got the previous minute.

Speaker 5 (29:00):
I prepared myself, you know, for whatever eventuality occurred.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
So then comes Derby day and again I'll never forget
handicapping the race and asking myself which horse do I like?
I mean, I had been swayed by recency bias, by
being around the handcocks, by watching the horse, and I'd
watched the Easygoer as well, and that was a great
horse and a great trainer in Sugar McGahee. But I

(29:32):
remember that Easygoer as a two year old had raced
the Churchill Downs and didn't really like the track. And
again two year old versus three year old, big difference.
But horses that show you they don't like the track
at Churchill or really anywhere else, but I think particularly
Churchill that's telling. That's why I kicked myself after the Derby.

(29:54):
I mentioned this on the show when Sovereignty won. He
had already won on that track.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
I'm like, what a dope.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
I didn't bet him, you know, the way I should have.
And the reason was it was an off track that day,
but the horse still liked the track. So anyhow, I
took a big, deep breath and I threw out Easy Goer.
And I mean I had him in an exact or whatever.
But I bet big on Sunday Silence. And sure enough,
on a cold, bitter day, it was spitting snow, really

(30:23):
uncomfortable out there. But I'm standing on the track and
here he came, the black horse rider Pat Belnezuela, in
kind of grayish silver and gold silks, lying down the
stretch in the middle of the track, kind of weaving
like a drunken sailor.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
On the inside.

Speaker 6 (30:40):
Thing comes Easy Goer and the awe inspiring come with
a sixteenth of a mile to go, and here comes
Sunday Silence. Do this pretch coming to the finish of
the derby?

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Sunday Silence?

Speaker 7 (30:51):
What is this Comy Fight too.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
Late and that's Dave Johnson Curtisy, ABC Sports. So Sunday
Silence wins the Kentucky Derby, next stop Baltimore. We'll have
that after the break on six thirty WLAP Welcome back
to the Big Blue and Cider coming up David Sisk
from Cats Illustrated Forrest Tucker from WTVQ. But right now
we're taking a special look back at the nineteen eighty

(31:15):
nine Preakness one on this day, all those years ago
by Sunday Silence, and if you're just joining us, we
talked about how Sunday Silence survived in illness. As a weenling,
he was in a terrible van accident in South Texas
when he was being shipped from California back to Kentucky.
Nearly died from those injuries, but recovered and prospered. As

(31:37):
a three year old, Colt won the Santa Anita Derby,
then won the Kentucky Derby. So now they ship him
to Baltimore where he's going to challenge Easygoer once again.
And a lot of people thought, well, you know, maybe
the Derby was a fluke. The time was terrible in
the Derby was like two five or something like that,
and Arthur pointed out to me pragmatically, and I forgot

(32:01):
about this. It was an off track that day. It
was kind of a muddy track because of the day,
like I said, earlier, bad weather and off and on
rain and snow. And in the post parade, one of
the horses threw a shoe and so instead of scratching
the horse, they rushed the horse back in under the
spires into the paddock, and you know, ferrier came rushing

(32:23):
out and they reshod the horse. But meanwhile the Derby field,
those horses waiting to run, circled in the mud for gosh,
eight or nine ten minutes, and they.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Finally loaded him into the gates.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
So those horses got an additional work at Think about
that if you're gonna go sprint, but first you walk
in the mud for about ten minutes in a circle.
He was right, so a tiring Sunday silence. But all
the other horses were tired too, comes weaving down the stretch.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Weaving in and out, but he was well.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
Clear of the rest of the horses and wins the
Derby convincingly.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
But a lot of people thought it was a fluke.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
The experts believe that this one would go to easygo Er.
That Sunday Silence ran a nice race, but this time
the big horse from New York is going to get
the black eyed Susans. Well it didn't quite turn out
that way. It was a great race, and as they
turned for home, Sunday Silence was on the front end
and an Easy Goer moved past him. And if you're

(33:27):
watching the race, you thought, well, that's it. And I
remember I was over at the TV station for whatever
reason on that Saturday afternoon, that Saturday evening. I ordinarily
worked on Saturdays if we were really busy or had
something else going on, or I'm filling in for one
of the anchors or whatever, but I happened to be there,
and I remember we were all crowded together in the
main room watching the TV and I'm screaming at the

(33:49):
top of my lungs. And as they were racing down
the stretch, I see Easygoer put his head in front.
I thought, well, that's it. And then here's something that
you never are you rarely see in deep stretch like
a sixteenth of a mile ago, Sunday Silence retakes the lead.
Oh I wasn't the only one who saw that. As

(34:12):
they were coming down the stretch. Arthur Hancock saw it happen,
and he admitted to the Blood Horse on camera in
this video that he did ten or eleven years ago
that he basically had resigned himself to the fact that
easy Gore.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
Was gonna win.

Speaker 5 (34:26):
Sunday Silence was there and Easy Gore kind of swept
past him. Looked to me like he might have shut
him off. I was watching, but Sunday Silence dropped back
a length or two and I dropped my glasses and
said to Stacy, I said, Easy Gore just shut us off.

Speaker 4 (34:43):
That's what I thought looking through that. He didn't.

Speaker 5 (34:45):
He was far enough out there, but he swept past us,
and I thought with a move like that, I thought
it's over.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
A lot of people thought it was over.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
But Arthur's wife, Stacy, she had her eyes on the
race and at one point she screamed to Arthur, he's
coming back.

Speaker 4 (35:03):
Stacy said, he's coming back. He's coming back. You want
it buy a nose?

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Yes, he did.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
And here's the way Dave Johnson called it for ABC Sports.

Speaker 7 (35:12):
Good way on the turn.

Speaker 6 (35:13):
Heads on the outside of the front on the outside.
Your comes Sunday silence to kelling down there heads of
bark Sunday silence with Pat Plinzoela takes Sunay at the
quarter pole, easy goer back into second position, Dancel's coming
on third in the stretch on the upside of Sunday
silence on in the side, easy goer, head down. That's
French say, come on the outside, it's Sunday silence, easy

(35:37):
goer with pesday Bector Challis had a bark easy goar
on the inside of a slight lead by outside Sunday silence.

Speaker 8 (35:44):
Here at the far back, here's the fas of.

Speaker 6 (35:46):
The preakness Sunday sign of an easy goar photo fat
show you a park I can't tell, but on the
outside Sunday side of for Pat Velinzuela, he's.

Speaker 9 (35:55):
Waving a quippling. He thinks he wanted to time what
fifty three and four fifty second tramatic photo finish either
Sunday silent on the upside tinner of the derby, who
will try to make it two steps to the triple
crown or easy if you are at the rail with
that day.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
What a finish yad was?

Speaker 3 (36:14):
And Sunday Silence wins it, and basically, as Arthur Hancock
put it, saved their farm. Because of the money he
made by winning both the Derby and the Preakness, a
Handcock family was able to pay some bills and keep
people employed.

Speaker 5 (36:29):
Sunday Silence was a gift from God, and he saved us.
He saved I had wife and children, and Sunday Silence
saved us.

Speaker 4 (36:39):
He saved the farm.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
Of course, the two horses hooked each other again, and
the Belmont actually went and covered that Belmont because I
wanted to be there if the Hancocks won a triple Crown.
But Easygoer racing on his home track, a bigger track
with the wide sweeping turns which benefited a big horse
like Easygoer, wins on his home turf and prevents Sunday

(37:01):
Silence from winning the triple Crown. Arthur admitted he was disappointed,
but he said when he got into it, all he
ever dreamed about was winning the Derby. I didn't dream
about winning the triple Crown. Just get me a Kentucky Derby,
which he did, and the horses hooked each other again
in the Breeders Cup. The following fall and Sunday Silence
won it again. And if you remember the story from
earlier when Whittingham told Hancock, my boy, we're gonna get

(37:25):
the money. Prior to the Breeders Cup, I was told
a second hand that Whittingham was talking to a pr
person from the Breeders Cup. She said something to Charlie
about you know, he's got a pretty good chance at winning.
And he turned to her and he said, bleeping the bleep,
we're gonna win that bleeping money. And she said, yeah,
you got a big chance, and he said it again,

(37:45):
We're gonna win that bleeping money, which is when they
loaded up out there on Sunday Silence so a great horse,
and again, as Arthur said, the ugly duckling that truly
became a swan and saved the family farm. Now, business
being business, Arthur had to sell the horse. He wanted
to keep him, but he at bills to pay, so

(38:05):
he sold him to a group from Japan, and Sunday
Silence went on to become the greatest sire in the
history of Japanese racing. There are champion horses throughout Japanese
racing now that trace their lineage back the Sunday Silence.
Arthur brought him home at one point, and he spent

(38:27):
a lot of time in his later years back here
in Kentucky, but eventually went back to Japan. And the
horse actually died in Japan, but not until he had become,
of course, a great race horse and a great sire.
And again it was on this day in nineteen eighty
nine at Sunday, Silence won the Preakness, the second jewel
of racing's triple Crown. Coming up next, we'll hear from

(38:48):
David Sisk of Cats Illustrated and Forrest Tucker from w
tvq D on The Big New Insider six point thirty
WLAP suact out.

Speaker 8 (39:05):
Such Statuta sat out, such.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Welcome back to the Big Blue Insider.

Speaker 3 (40:45):
Joining us now is a guy who makes the rounds
on the radio talk shows because we learned a lot
of basketball from David Sisks from Cats Illustrated. Part of
the Rivals Network covers Kentucky and North Carolina recruiting. This
is a busy time for you, isn't a coach? I
know that the basketball season's over, but the recruiting season, well,
it never really ends.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Does it.

Speaker 7 (41:06):
No?

Speaker 10 (41:06):
And I was getting ready to say, if you had
to put that on and it never stops, and you
know it doesn't, so you go from May. Now. The
one thing about it the we we just got done
in Memphis. We had a live period. I was at
the Nike U y b L. But you know, Adidas
was in uh, Iowa. I think under Armor was in

(41:30):
uh uh Cincinnati area, and then you had Poom. We've
got like five shoe circuits now, so you know, Mark
Pope was in uh he was in Memphis Friday night,
he was in Iowa Saturday morning, and Anitas didn't turn
around Saturday afternoon. He's back in Memphis, so you know
he's he's back and forth. But that's kind of how

(41:52):
you feel right now. But you know, usually uh, you
ended up to eyb you had four spring sessions, uh
they au ball and the last one it will always
always be around Memortal Day weekend and now you've got
three and so that's helped a little bit. But to me,
the biggest thing is getting the transfer portal over with.
That's That's what I'll make you want to, you know,

(42:15):
question your career choice is the never ending transfer portal.
But then you uh, you know, but then you're going
to get in it'll be okay, and then about the
middle of June they'll start reaching out directly to the
twenty twenty six kids, and then all of a sudden,

(42:36):
you're you're in uh aau ball in July, and then
you've got official visits and all that getting set up,
and then you've got the fall, and then you got
your season and high school season, then you go through
the whole thing all over again.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
Tell me what your impressions are of the portal class
that Mark Pope has put together now that things have
settled down.

Speaker 10 (43:00):
Uh, obviously a tremendous class. Everybody that I've seen has
them ranked in the top three. And I think myself,
looking at play now, I don't have I don't go
down a list into a portal ranking look at everybody,

(43:20):
but you know who the best ones are. I think
they're probably right around number two. And you know, when
when you take high school kids coming in, who should
get on the floor. Overall, it's a very good class
that they brought in, a very good group. And I
think not only did they address means, they they're deep,

(43:45):
you know, so it's not like they've just got one
guy this spot. They wanted to go at least too
deep in every spot, and they've got versatility and flexibility.
And I think last year they thought they were deep
and then all the injuries that they got and they
really found out, you know, they didn't have as much
depth as what they thought they had. I think he's

(44:06):
approaching it now now that they kind of lifted the
capital on the number of scholarships you can have. I
think it kind of reminds me of an NBA team.
So if you can put fifteen spots, if you can
have fifteen spots, why would you have in NBA ten?

(44:27):
You know, they fill off fifteen, whether it's the two
way deals or whatever. So it kind of looks to
me like, you know, Pope's kind of taking that approach
that you know he's going to try to fill you know,
every spot and have a deep of a roster is
what he can have.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
Well, you cover recruiting, you've coached this game, and you know,
Pope had to answer critics. They were very polite about it,
but some Kentucky fans were a little i don't know, confused,
myft whatever. When Pope would have a group on the
floor maybe to open the game and would get out

(45:02):
to this great start. Then he starts subbing and people
began and you and I spoke about that during the season,
and you talked about how you might be cutting down
on his subs. But he he was you know, I
don't want to say stubborn, but he was confident in
the way he's doing things and that he wants to
play everybody keep him fresh, that kind of thing. As

(45:24):
the season went on, did you see more value in that?

Speaker 10 (45:28):
I did, because he built debt. Yeah, so that's the thing.
You could keep that five out there. You know, Jerry
Tartanian say, you only need to be about eight deep,
needed six guys play and two be over in the
bench's scream with yell well as they could. So Pope

(45:49):
obviously didn't believe in that. So if he would have
taken that philosophy and any injury set in, you go
right in the middle East. See, and your your players
are not ready, they've never been on the floor, but
you know, we'd already started playing. I think Travis Perry
and Noah and and you know your freshman Chandler ended

(46:14):
up playing a lot. No it was sporadic at times,
so they may I think toward the end of the
year That was the thing to me. You never know
where it was going to come from. You could take
Travis Perry for example. He may go three games and
never get in and then all of a sudden when
he does plays playing twenty five minutes and he has
a big game, or you know that was the case, Well,

(46:34):
I think any of the freshmen. So I thought that
was and I don't not privy to you know the
thinking behind that. I thought that was a little unusual.
But it worked out. But she definitely I think, took
criticism like you said, but I think it did work

(46:54):
out for and when all the injuries set in, and
obviously we know they did at the end of.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
The year, Travis Harry waited until literally the last possible, yeah,
moments before he announced his transfer and did it with
a little vanfare. How much did that surprise you if
at all?

Speaker 10 (47:13):
I think the timing I know this. I get so
busy in the portal, and the thing that I hate
about the portal is you have all these contents, Well,
Kentucky's contacted this guy and this guy that guy, And
it's not like scholarship offers where you've got a limited amount.

(47:37):
You get into the portal and the next thing you know,
you're trying to find out about one hundred and fifty
guys in a too much span, it seems like, and
it's just it never ends. It's just twenty four hours
to day, seven days a week, and you're just praying
for it to get over. So what happens is you
get in the middle of that and you kind of

(47:57):
forget who's not putting you and you know, so you're
not thinking Travis Perry. You're thinking about you know, all
these guys that are going to Kentucky, and guys are
in a hunt board to go to Indiana or somewhere
else and uh a Boogie Land or somebody like that

(48:18):
that's in now, and you don't even think about it,
so it sneaks up on you. And but then once
you see that, I think it's a timing more than anything.
And when it happens late, but then you're like, well, yeah,
I guess it does make sense because it's like you
and I talked about here. When you're at Kentucky, you're
Mark Pope. You've got a responsibility just like John Teller

(48:41):
Perry did it for him that he's going to You're
going to get recruited over. And I've made this statement
before that the one of the best conversations that I've
ever had about Kentucky recruiting with with Andy Borman, who

(49:02):
ran the New York RN's AAU program and was Coach
K's son in law, and he he had lance Ware,
and I remember when lance Ware was committed and I
called talked to him and he told me. He said,
I told lance when you get recruited over year one,
don't come back. Don't don't come home. If you want

(49:23):
to go to Kentucky or North Carolina or Duke or Tangen,
You're going to get recruited over. When you get recruited
over your sophomore year, don't come home, you know. And
he made it three years that Kentucky constantly getting recruited over.
And a couple of women told him, you go to
a place like Kentucky, it's going to happen. You need
to expect that and know that they're constantly going to

(49:43):
try to upgrade your position. So you know, that's what
happened with Perry. I think he understood he was constantly
going to get recruited over, and that's the nature of
the beast. You know, it's nobody's fault. Nobody's the bad
guy here, but that's that's just the way it works.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
He is David Sisko, Cats Illustrated, part of the Rivals Network.
Will come back and talk more hoops with a coach
on the other side of the break here on six
thirty WLAP Welcome back. We're talking with David Siske is
part of the Rivals Network. You see his work on
Cats Illustrated covering and the recruiting for Kentucky and North Carolina.
Tell me about Mark Pope and his staff, which is important,

(50:21):
of course, the entire staff, but their recruiting efforts, David,
now in year number two, especially coming off year number one,
when they answered so many questions, you know, because people wondered,
can this guy and this to me was ridiculous, canny
recruited and of course he can. They wondered could he
win in the win in the NCAA tournament. Obviously he can,

(50:44):
but they put those questions to rest. And now it
seems like they've got a ton of momentum.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
Am I reading that right now?

Speaker 10 (50:52):
You're correct, and they do. And I don't think into
the Sweet sixteen necessarily makes you up a hot program.
I think you need a deep run kind of do
that nationally. But and what I'm talking about is I
don't think yet they got the cachet that uh Yukon got,

(51:17):
well two straight national titles, of Alabama got going to
a Final four, or Houston's got right now. I know,
like I said, being an AU event, when Kevin Sampson
walk walks in, you see him, you just look at it.
As great as he was, he's one of my favorite
coaches and has been, you just look at him a
little differently. And it's just I think in your subconsciousness

(51:39):
of human nature, it's almost like you've got to glower
halo around defense. So it's it's that that's you know,
like I said, that's just the way we're wired. So
but I do think Kentucky's got like I said, momentum,
I think the playing style does a lot. Players like
what they're seeing. They're constantly when they recruit, they're sending

(52:03):
out there the way I take it, they're texting out
these these video clips all the time of their playing
style and what they do and how the player would
fit in it. And the players really like what they're running.
The parents like what they're running uh you know, and
coach Popany's staff I think approached this and recruiting a

(52:24):
very good way. They put people at ease. So but
now we know nil is such a big deal that
even the guys that they're in on now and you
think they're good shape for all it takes is one
nil bit over the top and that, you know, the
house of cards come down. So and that's the world
we live in now. But yeah, they definitely you know,

(52:47):
when you when you have a year ahead and you
put together recruiting class like they had on top of it.
And if you look what they did even last year
in the recruiting class now limited amount of time that
he had to put together a team like that, I mean,
I think they've been above board, you know, a recruiting
class the season. In the second recruiting class he had

(53:08):
knocked at Alla Park all three times.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
What do you like about their playing style?

Speaker 10 (53:18):
I like that it's a modern style. It is free flowing,
there's a lot of reads. You know. He said that
they didn't shoot as many three pointers last year. He
said his press conference last week, did not shoot as
many three pointers as he wants to shoot. I like
that type. So the thing is, if you ask me going,

(53:42):
who's your favorite coach in college basketball? Just from that
you like the style was Nate Oates and so that
kind of tells you how I'm wired. Yeah, yeah, so
I like the I like the modern day offense. I
like the analytics of it. I think when you watch
them play, there's a rhyme or reason for everything they do.

(54:03):
There's just it's style based, it's it's percentage based. It
translates into the NBA game. It's fun to watch for fans.

Speaker 6 (54:14):
Uh.

Speaker 10 (54:15):
So you know, I like all that I don't like,
and they ran. I think they were a very You
had a lot of imagination to be able to play
all these bigs together like you did and still keep
the wartch court spread out, and I think it's hard
to do, but they were really good at it. And
I don't necessarily like just the old traditional power forward

(54:37):
and the high post centered down on the block and
they never get out on the floor and it's just
it's just pounded in there and throw it off the backboard.
Five guys try to go get it. You know. I
just like this stuff of offense much better than than
than you know what some of the alternatives are well, you.

Speaker 3 (54:54):
Know, speaking of the Bigs and the way they played,
I found it really interesting by the end of the
year the value of Mariy Williams value, at least in
the eyes of fans and maybe yours as well, it
was more about offense than defense, because you know, they
had their problems with defense early in the year, and
Williams was three time defensive player of.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
The Year in this league.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
We knew that, but he wasn't quite the rim protector
that we thought he might be for whatever reason. However,
he was such a great passer in that offense that
was such a good and when he had to run
the point more than once, I thought it was fascinating. Coach,
the way that script kind of got flipped. You know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 10 (55:36):
I think you could go to the shopping mall and
Lexington or Louisville, Kentucky year one and have a microphone
and grab the first hundred people and say what kind
of center does Mark Pope want to have his offense?
And they could give you a pretty educated answer. Just
about everybody. I mean, if you watch them play, and

(55:57):
we know that ball handling is a big part of that,
so like, if we look into Malachi Marino that's coming
in the first we're not looking at really what he
does down on a block. You're kind of looking at
how does he handle the ball? Can he dribble it,
can pass it, canny maneuver with it. And so I
think that goes back not only the Pope's style, but

(56:19):
that's because of Amari Williams. So when Mark Pope says, hey,
when we go into the portal, we are looking analytically
for which players match our system. So if I've got
a center and there's found to two guys or one's
ranked number two and the portal and another guy's ranking twelve,
if the number twelve guy fits us analytically better than

(56:40):
what we do, we're gonna take the number twelve guy.
We're not worried about the rankings. And I think we
kind of see that cod with him from Drexel and
maybe with a Kobe Brad and some of these guys
maybe weren't quite as highly regarded that man. They really
matched what Mark Pope wants to do. And I I
look at players now, and you know they recruited a

(57:03):
kid in the Ukah they're looking at right now, Dean Rukert,
and I'm sitting there. We're talking to a couple of
National guys while he's playing, and they're like, man, he
just looks like Mark Pope's kind of players. So I
think even in year two, we've already got a good
idea in all the different positions. What Mark Pope's taught

(57:24):
the player really is sure. Uh, just one thing that's interesting.
I was talking to another SEC coach in Memphis weekend
and he said it's going to be interesting because he's
brought in some strong, physcal guys like Diabode might be
one who are not shooters. They're physical. So I'm wondering

(57:47):
if he's trying to adjust a little bit from that, saying, Okay,
if we're in the SEC, we've got to be more physical.
We may have to put some non shooters out there,
even maybe more than one on the floor at the
same time, playing extended minutes, because we got to match
the physicality in the sectate. So he may be making
a little bit of adjustment. They're up right front of

(58:08):
my eyes.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
I can see that.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
Just a couple of minutes left with David sisk if
cat illustrated.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
Uh, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
If I've asked you straight up yet your thoughts on
malachaim Mareno, because I got to cover the state tournament
all the way through his championship and really for a
couple of years, and uh, you know, he could be
the classic low post big man. But you know he
also looks like a guy. Well, they tell me he
can shoot threes and make them. They just didn't want

(58:34):
him to in high school. You know, they needed him
under the bucket. But yeah, just hear your impressions to him.

Speaker 10 (58:39):
Well you just said there if they didn't have the
rim protection last year, and you're right, Williams six eleven,
but he really didn't get off the floor. So they
got it. Now they got and they're gonna have acquaintance too.
So you've got two centers right there, two guys playing
a five who can absolutely protect the rims. So that
gives you that.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
I like it.

Speaker 10 (59:00):
I think he handles the ball well out front. I
think he's got a nice little jump shot. I don't
know how deep it goes out, but I know around
the elbow areas and stuff, it looks pretty good. You know,
he can dribble the ball, he can pass it, he
can handle it. That's a big prerequisite. So I think
the thing you're looking at Kentucky, I don't think he's
the one done. So is he a guy that you
could get them to stay for year two? Perhaps you're three,

(59:22):
but definitely year two. And being a Kentucky kid, we say,
and you can say, well, Travis Perry was a Kentucky kid,
but that's apples and oranges and and you're talking about
bringing a top twenty guy in here that was the
second highest ranked high school center in the country in
his in his group. So you know, I don't care
if you're in Kansas and you get them out of Camarino,

(59:46):
you've got a big signee there. But you know, being
in the state of Kentucky, you know, I think because
of that, you get a chance that he doesn't hit
the portal after year one and he sticks around for
the second year and really develops because you know he's
already you can't teach seven to one, you know, you

(01:00:06):
can't coach it. You can't teach it. Only God give
you that. So he uh so, yeah, yeah, I definitely
I'm all in on it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Sounds good to me.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
And he's probably after a year could be looking at
in a take a always situation, go off and get
the information from the draft, and if you come back,
you stand to make more money playing another.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
Year of college ball.

Speaker 10 (01:00:27):
Right, Yeah, And that's what we're looking at now, and
I've seen some excellent articles on that as i'm time research.
But you're basically to the point now. It used to
be if you're in the second round, you might come
back to college simply because you you didn't get any

(01:00:47):
type of guarantees and your your whole motivation was there
for if I'm a second round it doesn't work out
daring and you're losing a college degree and everything else.
But now will be in al The difference is they
can pay you more than definitely what the second round can,
but they can pay you more than many in the
first round picks. I think if you're at a place,

(01:01:10):
if you're in an Otago Oway with what he'll be
getting north three million if he comes back to Kentucky,
unless you're a lottery pick and you're going to make
more coming back to Kentucky. Now, I understand, the first
round gives you guarantees, but Old Ways is not going
to get first round and I can understand, well, you
get a two year contractor a three year contract and

(01:01:31):
that turns out to the hill. But I had a
guy tell me, and I think he's exactly right. He said,
you know, if you don't go come back. He said,
if you're old way and you don't come back, you're
spending about three years once you do go pro trying
to make up the money lost by not going back
to Kentucky. And I thought that was that was really

(01:01:54):
an excellent quote.

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
Yeah, everybody wants to get to that second contract, but
they forget that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
Yeah, he I've heard that quote.

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
You're chasing that money and it's going to take a while,
and you got to stay healthy enough to recoup it.
So yeah, it's big business, no question. David Sisk is
big business and the interest of recruiting. And you should
follow him on Twitter at Coach David Sisk. Look for
him on the website Cats Illustrated part of the Rivals Network.
Thank you, coach, talk to you again soon.

Speaker 10 (01:02:21):
Absolutely, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Up next, Forest.

Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
Tucker from WTVQ TV channel thirty six, Here on six
thirty WLAP Welcome back to the Big Moon Sider joining
us now from ABC channel thirty six WTVQ Forrest Tucker,
who is a guy who covers a little bit of everything,
including the derby. I want to double back to that
because I'm always curious about folks who come in from
out of town and get a chance to cover that event.

(01:02:46):
But you've been covering Mark Pope of late. And he
sat down and then had quite the frank discussion I
think with the media the other day Forrest. Was there
any one particular takeaway from that because there were a
lot of good sound bites, weren't there.

Speaker 10 (01:03:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (01:03:04):
I thought there was a litany of sound bites you
could have gone with and you could have made into stories.
And so when I think about the thing that I
was was a bit disappointed about, but knew it was
a long shot. I asked him, what's the nil valuation
of your roster? And who jokingly said posted two hundred million,
which I touched Lee K Howard from KYK on the Sour,

(01:03:24):
I said, he's joking, right, like I just I'm sometimes
a little bit slow to the trigger with understanding things.
And I was like, all right, he's definitely joking. But
then he produced a very as a friend of mine
put it, you know, steal clapping sound bite for BBN
if we want to be the best in everything, and
Lotty Dottie died and so yes, coach Beek. When Mark

(01:03:46):
does coach speak, though, I think you don't know it's
coach speak because he just is so eloquent. Yes, And
I think, really that's just kind of the thing for me,
is you you want to know candidly from these coaches,
whoever it is, what is the emphasis are players coming
in and what is the question? What question numberre they

(01:04:07):
asking about an ilan? Are they asking about this in
the first five questions the first five minutes or with
from like Kentucky and Mark Pope. The way he's selling
it is these guys kind of don't really care about
that and said he's looking for guys that aren't fishing
for that, And so I wonder really what the deal
is because we can be told this all day long.
And I'm not saying it's something bad, but it's good

(01:04:28):
to know in this day and age. It's like a
job interview. Are you going to care how much money
you're going to be making right off the bat or
can we talk about the opportunity first?

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
I agree, and I think there are still players out
there like these guys who came through last year, and
you were part of the media horde to descend it
on these guys when we were allowed to talk to
them in August and throughout the year, and without fail,
every one of them you could tell how much they
appreciated being at a place like Kentucky with the t

(01:05:00):
tradition and the name on the jersey and all that.
I do wonder how many generations of players who come
through here will keep appreciating, you know what I mean.
I feel like, yeah, at some point that's gonna wear off.
I worry for that, do you.

Speaker 11 (01:05:16):
I don't know. I think it really depends on how
parents are raising their kids these days. And really I'm
not anywhere near being a parent, but I was raised
by parents who were not, you know, telling you to
go after certain things in life, but really value the intangibles.
That made a big difference. And so I think if
the kids are having a good head on their shoulders,

(01:05:37):
then they'll come in and they'll want to work hard.
And I think we can criticize the next generation for
not wanting to do that pretty easily, and some of
that is warranted. But I do believe, you know, he
being Pope mentioned that Denzel Aberdeen comes from military family.
He is a very hard worker, and so that speaks
to me because that's kind of my background as well well.

(01:06:01):
So I think that it's not like Mark Pub's going
to really go and recruit kids and doing deep guys
in their families all the time. But I think that
when you look in the recruiting process and you see
what's going on. I actually interviewed some people, some Kentucky
bill Bakers about a documentary they did on Blue Ship
football recruits. You know, sometimes the parents get involved and

(01:06:23):
they really really are a bit over zealous with what
they want, and that trickles down to the kids. And
you can talk about looking vicariously through their child's experiences
with a lot of stuff. That's a whole of a conversation.
But I think as long as the kids come from
a good family and they've had good coaches as a
basis during their youth days, then perhaps that goes well
for their marketability as a really good recruit as a

(01:06:46):
culture fit. Because I think Pope is going for the
culture fit. And I guess your thought is, is there
a chance where he may be like, Ah, this guy
might not be the best culture fit. I'm going to
have to work with him to kind of mold him,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (01:06:59):
Yeah, I do, although I think that in this day
and age, especially with Kentucky's budget being what it is,
I don't know that he's going to have to really
really do that because he'll have enough funding, you know,
in his background behind him. Rather to be picky, be
as picky as he needs to be, you know, I

(01:07:20):
can't think of a better We'll selective, you.

Speaker 11 (01:07:22):
Know, I agree. I think that what we realize what
the transfer portal is develops is it's kind of like
just the wall of candy and BUCkies or something for
the wall of beef's turkey, right, I mean, you can
get any type of thing you want, and it doesn't
matter if they're out of the one thing. If they're
out of maple brown sugar, they have maple, they have

(01:07:44):
maple bacon or something. Yeah, maple bacon beef turkey is something,
but don't that exists. But that's my point is there's
an adjacent player that you know, you may have thought
that will work and I didn't, And now we'll go
with him because he still fits a lot of things.
I mean, these guys. I wonder Mark Pope is ahead
of it all, and you know he's important, but he's assistant.

(01:08:07):
This is what I you know, get. I'm not trying
to get into the access to some stations in the
market aver versus others. But the assistant coaches on this
team are so important because they're doing all of this.
It's not groundwork, but it's so much of the nitty
gritty I think makes the hugest difference in recruiting it
and everything.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
No, I agree.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
And now with the portal being what it is, and
Mark Troops has talked about this, you've got a much
better opportunity to know what you're getting in terms of
playing ability, but also locker room presence, you know, personalities
and things like that. You don't know about a high
school senior how he's going to mature in the next two, three,

(01:08:50):
four years, you know, but you've got a pretty good idea.
Some of these portal guys, as you know, are in
their third, fourth, and even fifty years. That's a huge difference.

Speaker 11 (01:09:01):
Yeah, I think that it's good because you can definitely
get the guys that will be your lieutenants in the
locker room. That's important. Especially on a huge team like
Kentucky football, you need the guys that are going to
hold everyone together to the blue. On a basketball team,
it's different.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
I think.

Speaker 11 (01:09:17):
You know, we heard last season the guys everybody stepped
up when they needed to. You know, everybody had a
mutual trust and kind of respect for each other, which
was great to hear about. And we saw it on
the court. You know, we never saw I don't think
we ever saw last season an instant between two teammates
jarring at each other because they were upset. We never

(01:09:38):
saw that. And how many teams in America can you
say that hasn't happened on now Maybe behind the scenes
there was one or two things, but I think that,
you know, we would have sent some sort someone would
have known that. Now, not saying that anyone's a choir boy,
I'm not saying they're not. I just think that it's
important that Mark Pope keeps this brand of It's kind

(01:09:58):
of like you know, Shaneview or South Carolina, you know,
uses the word excited like every five seconds. Mark Pope
uses the word beautiful in the same frequency. So he's
trying to keep He's trying to find people that aren't
afraid to kind of not be this you know, rugged, rigged,
you know, rugged, just like kind of you know, stereotypical

(01:10:19):
masculine guy. He's looking for the guys that are in
touch with their emotions.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
Yeah, yeah, you.

Speaker 3 (01:10:23):
Know, and there's nothing wrong with that. We're talking to
Forrest Tucker of WTVQ. He's been covering, among other things,
Mark Pope and the moves he's made with his roster.
And I've already heard people for us say, maybe you agree.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:10:38):
This year's team may be more talented than last year's team,
may accomplish more, which means, of course, a final four.
I think, yeah, Pope already knows about the expectations. He
he brought him up the day he was introduced. You know,
he knows the assignment. But he didn't do himself any favors,
did he.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
I mean, he's.

Speaker 3 (01:10:58):
He's he's already kind of worked himself into a corner,
hadn't he.

Speaker 11 (01:11:04):
Well, I think if you're Mark Popener at Kentucky, you
don't believe in corners, You don't believe in being backed
into a corner. You believe in being the top dog.
And he said that a couple days ago last week
with the presser about being the best with everything, you
already mentioned that. Uh, but yeah, I think I'm going
to hear for the rest of my life. We are
here to win banners and his loud, just booming voice

(01:11:26):
around ruughs. You know about a year and change ago
and uh that that's something where you say that day
one and it's an expectation and so you have to
be held to that. And I think that's the thing
with BBN is they're going to wonder, so when is
it going to happen? Yeah, you know when they're going
to have to see a year over year progression and
you know what one year is going to happen.

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
Uh.

Speaker 11 (01:11:46):
But it's interesting just his his next team. We're going
to compare it to this year's team, but it could
be totally different. And I think that what we will
see with the transport line. This is why it's a
good thing is you can get high school crud saying
where you want, right but your portal guys, we you
kind of already see who they're going to be, you know,

(01:12:09):
as far as who's going to come in. And I
think that uh, Mark is never going to be upset
about losing in a Caden Lewis to the portal. He's
never going to be upset about losing, you know, a
couple targets that you know, just didn't work out for him.
He's onto the next one. He knows he has what
he has. And so someone said a lot there's a

(01:12:29):
reason he shakes Joe and Kelly Kraft's hand every he
walks out there. And you know, I just think, I
think we're about to see a lot of difference in
everything in you know, what what we how we look
at this athletic and these athletic departments and how the
sports just based on what we're already already doing. They're
already looking at it differently. But I think that it's

(01:12:50):
it's we have to remember that these players are our
people and and even though they're getting paid money. I
think that's what actually Pope's mentality maybe helps is he's
not this he's not a fatino, he's not someone who's
super super vicious. Sometimes he kind of he kind of
is able to insulate these guys from the loud just
noise outside of where they practice and play. But when

(01:13:14):
they see Rapperina, they understand and they you know, they
respect it, and so that's why I think a guy
like Trendo is a big deal this year. Brandon Garrison's
a big deal. I think that, you know, I think
they might. I would I would say there's a good
seventy five percent chance of the yedt otego way back.
I mean having him back. I mean there are guys
that are like, they're just world beaters this year. They

(01:13:36):
are just world class. So it's it's an exciting time.

Speaker 3 (01:13:39):
We'll talk more with Forest Tucker on the other side
of the break here on six thirty WLAP Welcome back.
We're talking with Forest Tucker of WTVQ Channel thirty six,
who has not been in the market all that long.
But you're you ingratiated yourself. Of course by covering horse races.
You had to learn how to cover the sport. It's intimidating,

(01:13:59):
I know. But also you you either had to or
got to cover the Kentucky Derby, and I wonder how
you because that is a tall task if you are
working and just going there, fighting the crowd is one thing,
but to work that event, and I've been to almost
fifty of them, yeah, it's it's it's a challenge, but
did you enjoy that?

Speaker 11 (01:14:21):
Yeah, I enjoy I enjoy every challenge, Dick. I mean,
there's not a day you can wake up and you
can't be happy for what you do. If you're not,
if you don't have a zeal for it, I think
you need to stop doing it. I mean, it's just
like people who say they need to retire from being
a pro athlete. So, yeah, we were more methodical with
how we split things up this year, and that was

(01:14:41):
something that I had, you know, I wanted to make
sure we had our needs met and that the needs
of you know, our management was met as well and
what they wanted out of us, and so we were
able to execute well. And you know, it's tough. It's
it's hard. I used to work mornings as a news reporter.
And when you get it at four thirty every morning,
which was two hours later than I would used to up.
You know, you're you're working ten hours from that point.

(01:15:02):
You know you're you're driving there, but you know, there's
an excitement that builds, and it's it's crazy to see
your pronounced transform. You know, you you you see what
happens day in and day out from you know, about
five am to ten am. And it's just it's it's
it's a magical. It's a magical, beautiful Mark Poe word
right there, you know, just experience. It's just there's nothing

(01:15:27):
like it. I think what you want to do is
you want to be on the biggest stage you can.
You want to be at the event everybody's talking about.
And I made the most of it, which is great.
You know, it's not about me, But I hope people
enjoy our coverage because that's what matters is that they
learned something, they were able to get something. I hope
they got a kick Outsy and Kenny Rice back on
our air for about three minutes and change on Everily

(01:15:49):
was Thursday, and and Kenny's great and I love him
and everything, but uh yeah, just it's it's a great spectacle.
We've had two years in a row of Derby doubles,
Kenny McPeek last year, the God Dolphin team this year.
And I think that makes it easy for people in
this day and age where we're talking about a lot
about crown, frequency of races, we're talking about a lot

(01:16:09):
of things related to just so many more things that
I that I kind of see as as issues and
touching points in the sport to have to have it
easy to remember that a trainer won the Derby and
the Oaks last year and then an ownership group won
the Derby and the Oaks this year. It's good because

(01:16:30):
we're not getting in the weeds with things it's not
inside baseball, and it is hard to think about just
you know, everything that goes into the sport. I mean,
I'm still learning, I'm still thinking, you know, trying to
piece together stuff. But once you kind of catch the bug,
it's hard to not think about it and it's hard
to not I was.

Speaker 10 (01:16:51):
I was.

Speaker 11 (01:16:52):
That race yesterday at Baltimore was crazy. So you know,
there's a there is. This sport may be a little
bit of a cross road, but everyone has their own
opinion and they say it's been there before, so you
know that that's the next thing I'm just interested to
see about is that. And yeah, there's like like the Derby,
when you've done it once, you can kind of feel like,

(01:17:12):
you know, it's good to feel at ease in those moments.
You're like, ah, this is this is my element. So
I love thriving in those environments. There's nothing like it.

Speaker 3 (01:17:19):
Well, the good news is getting a chance to Chad
with the forest Tucker. But the bad news is you're
leaving us. You're leaving the market, which happens all the time,
and TV young men and women get a chance to
move the bigger markets, you know, arguably better. But it's
what you make of it. And how long have you
been here in election? And what are going to be?
What's going to be? Again the popular word? Your takeaway

(01:17:42):
from your time here?

Speaker 11 (01:17:45):
Two years? Dick Stanner two years? Deal Nothing that's crazy
or abnormal about that. But you know, I've never been
to Kentucky for I came here and I think that
you hear about BBN and you hear about Kentucky basketball.
And getting chances to cover cal for a year was
an underwhelming experience for a lot of reasons, and for

(01:18:08):
many people on the beat, it was an underwhelming year,
but you can't have every year be an amazing time.
And then covering Pope was certainly an exhilarating journey and
getting to kind of just see the transition and see
things was interesting. I think that there's no beast like
the fans of Kentucky basketball. It's them in Ohio State football,

(01:18:29):
and that's what's just kind of crazy to me is
you know, you go across the country you see fan
bases and I think I'll probably be comparing fan bases
to beat me in for the rest of my life.
And so that's what Lextington offers. It offers this interesting
kind of people say, it's it's it's it's a cult.
You know, it's like it's just crazy to see it

(01:18:52):
blew everywhere you go, and not just you know, visually,
but in every sense. So you know, I I will
say I hope that I would hope that they're more
Louisville fans out there, because it seems like in a
lot of ways it's a one side of rivalry and
you know that they're they're a minority of people in
the state are Louisville fans. I mean, I love to
see more Louisville fans. I love to see, you know,

(01:19:15):
a little bit more of their chests out with it
because nationally they're a very well known brand. But in
this state, you come here and they're kind of that,
they're they're not kind of they are the and unless
you're the football team this year, they are you know,
their little brother.

Speaker 3 (01:19:28):
Oh yeah, yeah, we've heard that term before and we'll
hear it again, but appreciate it man. Thank you Dick,
and that's a good night from the garage and lexing.

Speaker 2 (01:19:38):
Such a.

Speaker 7 (01:19:40):
Who's giving them the business, such.

Speaker 8 (01:20:02):
Tact sat down anything one can back out like a

(01:21:03):
tapers to tap inting donating to the