2025-05-23 - BBI

Live on tape from the garage - it's the Chain Gang -- Doug Flynn, Keith Madison and Darren Headrick (for reasons of copyright laws, minus the classic songs we discuss). We DO talk a lot of baseball; we solve the world's problems (and create a few as well)...

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Big Blue Insider. Dick Gabrielle with you
on a Friday edition of a program. It is a
special edition because the Chain Gang is here. They are
on deck waiting in the garage. They will join us
after the next break. Doug Flynn, Keith Madison, the Hall
of Fame UK coach Doug of course, my broadcast partner
on UK Baseball on the SEC Plus, and the radio

(00:20):
voice of the Wildcats, Darren Hedrick, who may or may
not be finished for the season. We'll find out Monday,
starting at noon. That's when the Baseball Selection Show is.
We'll find out if the Wildcats are going to be
in the tournament. They could have helped themselves so much
down the stretch, but instead, well, they lost, of course,

(00:40):
all three against Vanderbilt. They lost their only game in
the SEC tournament, so now they're back kind of teetering,
although Darren has been pretty confident from everything he's heard
and read that the Wildcats are not only not on
the bubble, but they're safely in. So we'll get his
opinion on net. But we'll find out for certain on
Monday afternoon. But we will talk about a lot of

(01:03):
other things other than UK baseball with the Chain Gang
coming up, including music we always do. If you've heard
the Chain Gang, you know that they select walk up
music that I supply through my little equipment here in
the garage. And then we talk some music, because all
of these guys are music, especially Keith Madison, which might
surprise you being a Hall of Fame baseball coach, but

(01:25):
he is a real real music wonk of all kinds.
Doug and Darren of course kind of straight toward country music.
I'm all over the map myself, but coach is a
big it has a very eclectic taste in music. So
we'll talk about that tonight with all three of them
and play some music. I will tell you this now.

(01:48):
If you're listening via podcast, we appreciate that, but you're
not going to hear the music because there are copyright
laws in place. We can no longer play contemporary music.
Whatever music you might via the podcast is generic. There
are no rights fees involved. So if you're listening via
Apple or Spotify, whatever, we cannot play the music. You'll

(02:12):
get a separate, separately edited edition. But if you're listening
on the radio, again, which we appreciate and we generally
replay the Chain Gang shows on a best of situation
which I will later on in the summer. You'll hear it.
So I always think it's the entertaining one of the
many entertaining parts of the Chain Gang and their contributions

(02:33):
to the Big Blue Insider. A couple of news notes
before we hit the break and listen to these guys.
College football playoff. The folks in charge made a decision
on Thursday. The conference commissioners voted to go to a
straight seating format. Five spots still reserved for conference champions

(02:53):
in twenty twenty five. But it's not going to be
like it was last year, when clearly the seating was off.
There were blowouts, there were teams that got buys that,
in terms of how good they were or not, didn't
deserve it. But if you looked at last year's playoff
seating with this year's new format, Penn State, Oregon, Texas,

(03:16):
and Georgia would have gotten the buys. SMU would not,
Indiana would not, Boise State would not have gotten a buy.
So you kind of saw that coming, didn't You Have
One other note, we're gonna talk SEC baseball coming up.
One of the best pitchers ever in the SEC Paul
Skeens now Pittsburgh Pirates, their GM says, no way are

(03:36):
we gonna trade that guy? The chain gags next in
six thirty w a p. Now we get together every
night on text messaging. I think Darren Europe to where
you're staying up the latest, I think.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
That probably yeh.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
By the way, at the time I got, I'm up
there and I'm working on my little iPad and looking
all right, it's time to go to sleep. Put that
thing down. I've been a good sleeps. Lights go on
and everything, and Darren's words go on, Well the pad
come okay, cifications at night?

Speaker 2 (04:17):
So I need help. You need to help me do that?

Speaker 4 (04:20):
Well, I need help on I have two chain gang groups.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah, you need to do that.

Speaker 4 (04:26):
I don't know. But somebody's got any fixed fault, isn't
it probably? Or is it Key's faulty?

Speaker 1 (04:32):
Find a twelve year old. They'll fix your phone for you.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
So some of some of y'all's messages I get. Some
of the I don't get.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
I mean, we don't send you a lot of them too.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, the one we're talking about you, we leave you
out and we're talking about you. You don't get on yeah,
but uh yeah, so we we decide we get together
in the garage. Many of you have heard it. I've
gotten a lot of comments, which we appreciate. People enjoy
the chain gang, and we talk as much music as
we do sports, and and we talk about of course

(05:02):
personal experiences and and Doug. I was thinking about you. Well,
I'm always thinking about Doug. But earlier today my broadcast
partner on TV. But I saw a couple of guys
talking on the interweb telling stories about gloves, and apparently
Nick Allen of the Pirates breaks in and uses one

(05:23):
new glovey year. Did you do that or did you
keep you kept yours going? I thought you told me
about that the last one. I used it for the
last seven years.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
Wow ye. And I mean it's got tape on it
and I had to have it stitched up and everything.
Once you get a glove, I mean, I wasn't gonna
make any money with my bat, so I better take
care of my glove. So once you get that fix
the way you want it, you don't want to And
you know what always gets me pictures. I feel like
they got to take around balls like you would come

(05:52):
over and grab my glove. And now that you put
that big paw of theirs in there, it's all stretched
down a whack. But yeah, I would get four gloves
a year from back in those days. They'd give me four,
and i'd give them. I'd have my spare glove. You
got four, You're not gonna let me borrow one night. No,

(06:13):
I'm gonna give it. I've given you a new one.
But don't be messing with my gamer.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
It's not bad form, bad baseball form to grab somebody else's.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Grab somebody else's bad. Oh.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
But you know, back in the day when we were
coming up, I mean you didn't have your selection of
bats and gloves. You had a glove and a bat,
and so you were if you saw something loose, you're
gonna grab it, right.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Keith, That's right? Yeah, and I grab yours.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
So anyway, but I do to give those four away
to the minor league kids, and then i'd keep I
had my spare I take in field with, and I
had my game glove.

Speaker 4 (06:48):
Well did you do you still have that glove? They
still have it? Last seven years?

Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Got they said that.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
I retired en after the gold glove, and then I
used another one my last couple of years.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Well, see, and you told me that before, and I
would have thought you might have kept that because it
was the gold glove glove.

Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yeah, but it was. It was a little nappy, it
was dip it.

Speaker 4 (07:06):
And I still have my little league glove no way.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, I have like a mitten. It's like it's got
a big thumb. I remember.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
So, hey, this is true. I went to a baseball
camp one night and these little kids were there, and
some of them didn't have gloves, and so I took mine,
and I told this little kid, where's your glove. I
don't have one here. He used mine. He looked me too,
little nine year old kid.

Speaker 4 (07:30):
Yeah, I've got my my little league glove, my high
school glove. I've got one of the gloves I used
when I played in the miners.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
And and then.

Speaker 4 (07:39):
I've got a UK glove that was given to me
because I threw batting practice a lot back in the Yeah,
I remember, but I just saved it by the way.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
He threw lousy batt and he couldn't throw the ball
straight right. He throws sinkers, clutters and everybody's going to
tea just we just went bad practice, trying to get
guys out. But what I mean, what are they gonna
see in the game. That's why it's not pitching practice.
It's batting practice. I know, but you don't.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
But then they go into a game with bad confidence. Yeah,
I couldn't hit and bat in practice. I can't in
the game.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
We can't hit that old guy out there.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
We go let these young guys out here doing Darren,
what's your glove story.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
I don't really have one. I mean, I had a
glove when I was little, but I still have it somewhere,
but I didn't play you know, any high level organized baseball.
I've still got it laying around. Yeah, yees, sometay. I
want to be like Doug when I grow up.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
So I had I had a glove that I loved
thirty years. It was, you know, just what I need,
and I wore it out, literally, I mean the pocket itself.
So I go to go to buy a new glove
and you know, you save your money, your paper out
money or whatever, and I just could not make it.
Finally bought it and didn't like it. I couldn't get

(08:55):
it broken in, couldn't stand it. I guess that was
I was probably thirteen fourteen, and I came home one
day and my dog gets showed it up. Oh no,
the dog thought I'd you mad. The dog was cowering
in the corner and seeing I had spent this money,
and I could not justify not using the glove because
I spent my money. When the dog shooted up like

(09:16):
good boy, I get to go buy a new one.
And I kept that one for twenty years. So, uh,
Nick Allen, According to the story, Sorry, I've got to
hang on.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
I'm not sure I know Nick Allen.

Speaker 4 (09:34):
Is that Dick Allen's brother, got it? It's Mel Allen's brother, Richard.
Don't call me Dick Allen. Yeah, Dick, don't call me Richard.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
All Right, here we go. Not only does does he
get a new one every year, but he won't use
it in BP and warm ups and things.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
Were you the same way?

Speaker 1 (09:58):
It was game only.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
H after so many years? Yeah, yeah, so you had
to you had one. You go out from VPN and
you were still trying to break that one in as
much as you could. And the the leather was pretty
good back then. You know, it lasted a long time. Yeah,
I still have it. I got it. It's and it's
amazing how it looks. But I looked at guys. I

(10:20):
remember Bill Mazeroski. I got a chance to see his
glove one time. He'd walk out through the field. He'd
have it rolled up like a paper towel in his
back pocket and bring that thing out. It was so flat,
and you it's very rarely. Will you put on somebody
else's glove for me? Yeah? And say what that feels good?

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (10:41):
Because you had your own hands and everything. You broke
it in the way you wanted and so yeah, just
I mean, I still love the smell of it too.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Oh yeah, yeah, you know. Uh. George H. W. Bush's
baseball glove is on display at his presidential library, the
one that he used at Yale.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
Really you can see it. I offered mind to the
Reds and the Met's Hall of Fame.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
They went, no, thank you, And your name is.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
What.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
One of my favorite writers still is Dave Kind and
Kendred wrote a book called Glove Stories, and it was
just a collection of great baseball stories. And he's the
guy who in retirement started covering a middle school girls
basketball team up in his hometown in Illinois. And on
Facebook post stories. But he was such a great baseball

(11:31):
in golf. I mean he's a great writer, yes, But
he keeps his high school myth. He played high school
baseball second base, and he keeps his mitt with a
ball in it next to his computer. He used to
be his typewriter. And when he needed to think about
you know, what's what was he going to say if
he was, you know, locked up on something, he get up,

(11:51):
put the glove on, walk around. That's right, coach, and
just take a baseball and just you know, slam it
into his glove. I mean, what what better therapy? Right?

Speaker 3 (12:00):
Yeah. The way they make gloves now is really good
because when we got them around the hill, there would
be a lot of padding in the heel of the glove, yes,
and so you'd have to take a bat and sit
there and pound it and pound it and pound it
and pound it down because we weren't smart enough to
unlace it and take it out. Today they just don't
put it in there anymore. It's so it's flat, which

(12:21):
is good because a lot of balls hit off of
that part of the glove. Now it's all flat, and
glu gloves are really nice now, Oh, they certainly are.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Where did I read that Bill Mazeroski's glove. Really it
was about the size of his hand.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
It's a little bit it was flat though. Oh really, Yeah,
he just he'd wind that thing up like a paper towel,
put it in his back pocket and go out. And uh.
Then you look at his video because when he played,
a lot of guys will form their gloves, you know,
certain ways. It was almost like flat and uh.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
But he just gave more control.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
I guess, well, it's good for a double play, because
we know a double play. You just the ball didn't
really touch the very long but he had a way
he folded and catch the ball that was off to
the side.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
But I saw Ozzy Smith explaining as an old clip
from I guess the Baseball Bunch or something like that.
But Johnny Bench how he saw another player do this
and developed that knack for not even holding the ball
in his MIT when the buck he would just sort
of accept the ball with his MIT and almost instantaneously

(13:24):
switch it over to his throwing hand.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yeah, you practice, I mean when you're just passing, and
you tell young kids today, if you're just throwing work
on that, work on really exchange. That's where you learn
to do it. You know, you get your exchange while
you're out there just playing them when the game comes.
Ozzie Smith had the greatest pregame workout routine that I
ever saw of any baseball player. Yeah, and I'm talking

(13:47):
about ground balls. I mean it was short hops, backhand,
short hops to the glove side. He'd back up and
take some he turned double plays and when you watched him,
you're going, that's pretty special.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, he had a plan.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
He had a plan.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Well, we are talking to the chain gang here in
the garage, and when we come back, we'll talk more baseball,
specifically Kentucky baseball. Up next. Hearing the Big Blue and
Sider six thirty WLAP.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
I was ready to get up and walk around the
room like Mick Jagger with you.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
Oh you've got let me get my phone ready for the.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Satisfaction was number thirty one on the Rolling Stones five
hundred Greatest Songs of All Time. And it was kind
of controversy. You remember that came out. Yeah, you guys
are a little bit older, Yeah, but uh yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
It was.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
It was part of the movement.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
You know, the Stones were igy, Yeah back in those days.

Speaker 4 (14:43):
Now they're just like another rock band, another eighty.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Still going strong brother. Yeah. Uh, we were talking about,
of course, of course baseball as always, but Darren, you
you kind of suggested that song as it reflected UK
baseball this year. Everything. It was just not as satisfying
last year, obviously, right, But that's kind of unfair to

(15:08):
try to see if it could live up to last
year given.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
All the personnel loss doubt.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
Still, it just seemed like they were and they still
are alive as we speak, but always on the verge.
They didn't quite break through. We thought they did a Tennessee,
we thought they did with Oklahoma.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, that's the thing is so many opportunities for this team,
so many one run games where they just kind of
came up short. You look at the Vanderbilt series they
got swept, could have easily won that series, maybe even
swept it with the way Ben Cleever was pitching on
the Saturday before. Just one of those seasons where it
feels like, when you look at the year before, everything

(15:46):
that went right kind of went reverse this year for
this team, and they've dealt with more injuries this year,
and I think this is the thing that can't be underscored,
even though I know the program will never use it
as an excuse. The injuries this year were probably the
worst it's been since twenty eighteen, when they lost their
entire weekend rotation and their closer and had some close

(16:08):
losses like that, got swept at Vanderbilt and got left
out of the tournament. But the lineup this year, coach
Minchiona's had to do a patchwork lineup at times this year.
They were down to their fourth or fifth third basemen,
They've had to retool the bullpen. They finally settled into
a week in rotation that I thought was effective in
SEC play. But that lineup is missing its starting center fielder,

(16:31):
it's missing its starting d H slash utility guy and
Ethan Hndle, and they've just had some other key injuries.
And on top of that, you're relying on some freshmen
this year to produce in big spots. And so yeah,
it's just one of those seasons where it's like it
could have been more. But kind of credit this team
for at least being in the conversation and right now

(16:52):
as we sit here, it looks like they're going to
be in the field of sixty four.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
Well, and as we said, and coach you and Iris
swapping tex I've seen Kentucky teams with more wins not
get in, but the strength to schedule, strength at the
SEC that's huge. But as Darren said, I mean, Hinda
was playing so well when he got hurt, and you know,
the guy they had lost so much of their pitching
staff from last year, and but one of the guys

(17:17):
they were truly counting on out of the pen was Hogan.
He was so good down the stretch. Never right this year,
it was never right.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
No.

Speaker 4 (17:24):
I was just thinking about him, and really, I mean
he was one of the guys that I had coming
up big in the late ends this year, and that
you know that didn't happen. But uh, you know the
good thing is they have a field of sixty four
downs to the field of forty eight.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
And that that helped him. Oh yeah, what.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Did what did the middle endfield show you, mister middle infielder?
Because I know you like what you saw. And we
were spoiled the last two years, weren't we by Grant
Smith and a million petre.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
I think they played all right. Uh. I think there's
a way to go, you know, to get to elite level.
The talent with Tyler Bell is really good. There's a
few things that he could work on. I think that's
going to make him, you know, be very good at
the next level as well. I mean, he's got the

(18:18):
physical tools right now. Sometimes a little lazy with his
arm because he can, well you can, but you don't
want to do that on double play balls and stuff.

Speaker 1 (18:29):
You no, I mean guess prior to this level, you know,
at the high school level, he didn't have to really
worry about turning it loose.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
Oh no, he Well what I found out he does
have it's in there. Oh yeah, he doesn't. He doesn't
use it. But mine is where I really want to
see them excel is anytime they get a chance to
turn a double play, they need to do it. And
there are times where they're a little late, maybe either
get into the bag or a little late they catch
the ball a little late getting into your partner so

(18:58):
he can turn it, because both of them turn the
double play when they get the ball in time. Now,
Luke Lawrence really impressed me. Yep. He was a lot
more than what I thought he was gonna be. And
he came on probably was their best hit at the
end of the year and played outstanding defense. So I
was really impressed with him. I'd love to see him

(19:19):
back again together for another year.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, that could happen. Well, I mean, it looks like
we're going to get to see him for at least
one more year. So when you talk about Tyler Bell,
some of this stuff is I think we view him
and a lens. Obviously, he's following Grant Smith, who just
did whatever it took to make a winning play, and
that young man came out of nowhere made some tremendous plays.
But with Tyler, the ceiling on his potential and his

(19:43):
talent is so high. I think sometimes, like you were
just talking about with the here's the things that I
think he can get better at, you view him in
a little more critical lens because it's like, Okay, your
talent is there, let's realize that here's the steps you
need to take to reach that potential. Because I think
that young man can play in the big leagues, but

(20:03):
he's got he's got to develop, and he's only nineteen.

Speaker 3 (20:06):
And like you say, since we're talking about what's gonna
make him better, it's not a criticism, it's just here's
some things you need to work on right.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Use you've spoken to them and they were welcome to
hear it.

Speaker 3 (20:18):
Yeah they are. They are kaya scar gettu is there.
We talked a little bit about just fielding. You know,
you watch like the things that I watch, as you know, Dick,
during the game. I want to see if they're getting
that foot down in time, like, not after the ball
gets to the plate. Get that foot down before the
ball gets to the plate, because if it's afterwards, you're
not gonna get as good a jump. And watch how

(20:39):
they're you know, playing hitters and moving.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
And it was tough on these guys because they only
turned twenty something double plays, but they had a pitching
staff that threw a lot of fly balls. Yeah, so
they really didn't get the opportunity to do that. And
if they're back, they will be in my opinion, if
they were to come back another year, they will be
the premiere infield in college baseball.

Speaker 5 (20:59):
Ye.

Speaker 4 (21:00):
Thing I like about Tyler Bell's play is his back Ye.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
I mean the young Yeah he was.

Speaker 4 (21:05):
He could swing the bat and he's a switch hitter
and uh if he, like Doug said, continues to improve
as an infielder and he's got great talent there. Uh,
I mean it's it's hard to coach bat speed and
he's got bats on both sides. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Well, and I had I have had TV talent, and
scouts ask me where's his power? What side of the
plates has powered? I'm like, well, he hit six on
one side and four on the other.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
You tell me he hit He hit one left handed
one night though that was I don't know that there's
been a ball hit further this year.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Well, he hit one that left the ballpark at Duty Noble,
Like it cleared the backside concourse and that's out of
the ball. It's a big park left handed. Remember it
was left handed. It was shot left handed.

Speaker 3 (21:48):
And you walk up beside him and he's six one
maybe plus a little bit.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
But if you I was about to say, if you
go up to him when he doesn't have his baseball
uniform on, that kid is big. Yeah, And that's my
That's what I love most coaching. You can speak to
this when you look around the league Texas, Tennessee, LSU, Arkansas,
those guys are huge. Those Team Florida really massive. When
you look at Kentucky's freshman, what do you see Roan Schwartz,

(22:14):
big Tyler Bell, Yeah, Hudson Brown, Yeah, Yeah, they're big.
I love the future for this program right now. And
the freshman class coming in is big too. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:23):
But they are sec bodies, you know, they really are.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
Prior to the I guess it was the last home
game because it was rainy and they were doing VP inside.
Doug and I went down to the cages and there
was Tyler and I've been meaning to ask him this
for some time, but I said, when did you start
switch hitting? And he said he was three years old,
three and his dad urged him to do it, and

(22:48):
he said, I didn't like it. I didn't want to.
Like most kids, when you switch over, you try to
back cross handed. He wouldn't let him. Of course, you
can't do that, and he said he wasn't really comfortable
till he was twelve.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
But me is. He said he was natural right handed.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
I would not have guessed that after watching him swing
the bat.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
But yeah, same here.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, no, it's it's it's fun to watch it and
when you know, everybody knows his backstory by now that
he was taken between the first and second rounds technically
in the supplemental draft. But I guess you've told the
story a couple of times, Darren. He just didn't hear
if at all from Tampa. Didn't hear what he wanted
to hear, but didn't hear much at all.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
There's a lot of people, but you're not hearing from Dampa.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
True, But now you understand what that franchise is struggling.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
Right, Yeah, he had a number or he was coming
to school, and when Tampa sent out and offered the number,
I guess, you know, I don't know what it was,
but it wasn't in the ballpark, and he just said,
I'm going to Kentucky, which is where he wanted to go. Anyway,
How good is it now?

Speaker 3 (23:48):
When you come and play in the Southeastern Conference? You're
playing at a high a level anyway, right, not you know,
borderline double A because the pitching on every level and
every team is really deep now. So you know, in
the old days, you go to college and you go, yeah,
now you're getting the pro ball and it speeds up.
Now the game starts speeding up as soon as you
get in the Southeastern Conference.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
There's absolutely no question.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
Well he's a guy who's got it, coach, as you said,
he's got the bat speed, the idy arm and all
and evidently willing to work, you know. And if you're
willing to work, as you know, you go ahead.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
There's a couple of stories that are you just don't
even want to talk about this year. I don't I
get to frustrated. But there's a couple of really good
ones too, like James McCoy. James McCoy comes back this
year not even gonna play. They don't know what he's
gonna do, but he was a returning starter from last
year's team, as you all know. And then he's just
putting in his time and he's working hard, and he's
running gatorade the guys, he's chasing foul balls. He'll come in,

(24:43):
pitching in and then they'll to throw him in next thing.
You know, at the end of the year, he is producing,
hitting forth and playing every day at first base. And
the attitude that kids showed throughout this whole year. I
became a huge fan of his as a person just
watching the way he handled it.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Coach Ben Cleaver can't tell me about him.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
Hey, hang on, save that thought, because we're at the
end of segments, so we need to, uh, I need
to take a break satisfaction. That's right.

Speaker 4 (25:10):
That guy is just a master of words.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Oh yeah, he is.

Speaker 4 (25:14):
Uh, there's very few ever like him. And uh, a
lot of people think I'm crazy for liking Dylan, but
he is to me probably the greatest American songwriter.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
If not think a lot of people agree with you.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
Toss some names out it can he gets Let me,
let me throw some names at you. Shub ties eyes,
old Ben Abraham that's his Hebrew name, Okay, Elston Gunn,
blind Boy, Grunt, Bob Landy, Robert Milkwood, Thomas Tedum, Porterhouse.

(25:54):
These are all the names he he had performed under
a written under Lucky Wilbury, Boo Wilbury, Jack Frost, Sergei Petrov,
and simply Zimmy Robert Allen Zimmerman settled on Bob Dylan.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yeah, I know the name.

Speaker 4 (26:11):
Yeah, Yeah, Traveling, Traveling, Yeah, with George Harrison, Tom Petty,
Roy Orbison and the guy from Yeah, jeff Lynn Flynn.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yeah, that's the one. People that's like Pat Dobson on
the Oriol's pitching status name you don't remember, all right,
we were talking Kentucky baseball. We're in the garage, by
the way, if you haven't noticed. Uh with the chain
gang of Doug Flynn, Keith Madison, and Darren Hedrick, all
of us work broadcasts of Kentucky baseball, among other things.
But uh, that's why we sent text messages back and

(26:42):
forth all night, every night until dawn. I'm looking at you, Darren.
But we were talking about the baseball Wildcats part of
the break, and uh, you were going to talk about pitching,
starting with Ben Cleaver.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (26:58):
I mean I saw the first first time I ever
saw Ben Cleaver pitch last year as a freshman.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
I remember that.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah, he didn't get to pitch much.

Speaker 4 (27:06):
And the way the ball comes out of his hand
is different. You know, you hear people talk about the
ball sounds different off that guy's bat. Yeah, and there's
guys like that. And the way the ball comes out
of Ben's hand is special. And I knew that he
had a really good chance to be something special. I thought,

(27:29):
even though people like him around the league and the
scouts like me, I think he's the most underrated pitcher
in the Southeastern Conference.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
Really.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yes, Wow, his curveball is a classic curveball. Can you
kind of tell the listener what it means to have
one of those classic twelve to six curveballs.

Speaker 4 (27:48):
It's Scott Downs. I mean every time I see him,
I think it's Scott Down. Scott had that curveball that
Ben has. And Scott didn't throw quite as hard as
Ben when he was at Kentucky, but he pitched what
thirteen years in the big league.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (28:02):
So if you're left handed and you have that great
spin and that great curveball, uh, you got a chance.
Those guys can, especially if you could throw the back
door breaking ball like Ben does, like Scott Downs did,
like Paul Kilgis did. I mean those lefties that can
throw it back door successful?

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yes, really, just real quick before we go back to
Kentucky baseball, Doug your time the majors, Who was the
best curveball you faced? Who had the best curveball that
you might recall that you faced? That was quick boy,
he was He.

Speaker 3 (28:39):
Had a good one. The best slider was probably Steve
Carlton and he threw it ever pitch and you knew
he was throwing it. Still hard to hit.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah. I always like to talk about the curve ball
because you don't see it as that classic ephis pitch.
You don't really see that as much anymore.

Speaker 3 (28:55):
This was really good. Now you know who had a
good one but he couldn't throw it over, Thank goodness,
was Nolan Ryan. You know, his ball broke too much.
He just couldn't control it.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
I tell you somebody else that had a really good one.
I don't know what happened to it because he didn't
use it that much in the big leagues. There are
two guys. Joe Blanton had a really big time curveball.
I mean it was a hammer, and then Brandon Webb
had a great curveball. But Brandon he developed that sinker,
and yeah he didn't. I mean it's he developed that.
He didn't really need the curveball.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
By the time he was in pro ball he developed
the sinker.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Well he had.

Speaker 4 (29:27):
He had a good sinker at Kentucky, but it was
like a hard two seamer. And when he took a
little bit off when he was in Triple A, that
thing started moving like nobody's read that.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Wearing a bullpen was one of his coaches said, take
a little off. See what happens.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
Well, in those days, though, you guys weren't throwing a
lot of sliders. It was basically fastball, curveball, change up
when Keith and I came up.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, when I was with Triple A Oklahoma City, our
pitching coach was Bert Hooton, who threw the knuckle curve curve,
And of course by that time he was a little
more of the old not bad attitude, grumpy veteran, let's
put it that way, salty. But I was out of
the Yeah. I was out at the bullpen one day.
We get there, yeah, and I was like, hey, Bert,

(30:10):
I've heard so much about your knuckle curve. Would you
just throw one and show me. He's like no, I
was like, that was.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
The Yeah, he did have a good one.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Every time I hear knuckle curve, forgive me. But you know,
I played adult league ball for a while and I
was the emergency catcher and we had this kid who
drug This guy a grown man. He had been in
prison somewhere but he dropped literally, uh for passing bad checks.
But all of a sudden he's on our team and
like you got to catch him, Like, oh no, you know,
everybody's on vacation. I go out to the mound. Okay,

(30:39):
here's the singles, here's my signal for the knuckle curve.
I'm like I'm not calling that and he's dow it anyway,
and I ended up in a crack bone in my
thumb because of that. So every time I hear the
knuckle curve, I have I have flashback.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
That's good. Was just dropped st Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
But if you don't know what's coming and you're the catcher,
you know anyway.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Just do like Bob you says, let it stop rolling
and took it out.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
That's right, coach for our for our listeners out there,
if you could, as a as an expert, as a professional,
explain the basic and I know you both other guys
can as well, but the difference between a slider and
a curve, how you throw it, and why they're different.

Speaker 4 (31:17):
Well, the easiest way to describe it, I think is
you throw the curveball at the top of the ball.
You throw it from the top down. With a slider,
you throw it like a high three quarter grip.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
And I know it's radio, but Darren has a baseball
in his hand.

Speaker 4 (31:35):
Yeah, and he is. You know, the slider. I always
like the off center it just a little bit, yeah,
and throw it on the side and you throw it
with your fastball motion. And that's why a true slider
only breaks about six to eight inches.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
It looks very similar to a two seam fastball in
some ways, right, except it might have a harder break.

Speaker 4 (31:59):
It has it has a the opposite spin. That's it
of the of the two seamer.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (32:05):
And if you throw it, if you throw it right,
I mean, it's it's a devastating pitch because.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
Hitters have trouble pick it up.

Speaker 4 (32:14):
It looks almost like a fastball coming out of the hand.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
But uh, a lot of guys throwing the cutter now,
as you said, which is very similar.

Speaker 4 (32:21):
Yeah, and the cutter, I mean I've seen really good
cutters only break three inches.

Speaker 3 (32:25):
Yeah. And I think when you get that hit, you
get that ball and it looks like a fastball, and
then at the last second, if it moves at all
from being a fastball to then it's gonna be tough
to hear.

Speaker 4 (32:37):
I think the problem that some pitchers have is they
try to make their slider too big and they try
to make their cutter too big, and when they.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
Do, they break too much. Yeah. Yeah, And when they.

Speaker 4 (32:48):
Do that, they they lose that tightness, they lose that
late break, and it becomes more loopy. And but boy,
those guys like Steve Carlton that have the true slider.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
Or Mariano Rivera who never wavered from that cutter here. Yeah,
you know he's gonna throw it.

Speaker 4 (33:04):
Yeah, And I mean Doug can tell you it's so
hard to pick up and the time you pick it up,
most of the time it's too late.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah. Now, I will say this. I read this statistic.

Speaker 4 (33:12):
I don't know, fifteen years ago, the number one ball
that was hit out of the ballpark in the major
leagues was a hanging slider, no doubt.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Hey, that's what Mitchell Daily hit out. And you know they.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
Always say hanging sliders go.

Speaker 4 (33:26):
A long way, yeah, because they have velocity and they
just sit there. It's like hitting off the tee. But
do not throw it in the five.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
Oh I thought that was Mitchell Daily song run never on.
I've got it somewhere. But uh yeah, I was gonna say, guys,
these poor souls at the play, like mister Flynn, have
what four hundreds of a second to figure out you.

Speaker 3 (33:53):
Know, I was a poor soul before they started throwing
all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
Yeah, but it's just to me what you know, and
the pitches I'm watching SEC tournament down then as we
all have. And I'm watching guys swinging the pitches in
the dirt, but when when they decide to swing, it's
belt high.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
In the I mean, it's just last night and I
saw it was hard.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
Tennessee comes in. The guy would come easy and he's
throwing easy ninety seven, ninety eight on oi. Wow, it's crazy,
and that's that's pretty common. Yeah, I mean, well just
look at the Kentucky staff this year when these guys
were throwing and throwing pretty decent. They're all in the
ninety two to ninety four range. I mean, they didn't

(34:34):
have so many guys get above that, but you can
see them popping out right around ninety two to ninety four.
If you could throw ninety two or ninety four, you
got to be able to be successful, because that's hard
enough if you can locate and uh, but.

Speaker 4 (34:49):
You got to you know anymore, though, Doug with a
with a ninety two to ninety four, you have to
have a secondary and a third pitch.

Speaker 3 (34:56):
Oh absolutely, you know.

Speaker 4 (34:57):
You have to have a slider, you have to have
a curveball and a chain because guys see ninety two
to ninety four so often now that they adjust to it.
And it's amazing how hitters today adjust to velocity.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
But they always have.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
They always have.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
That's right, all right, we got to step out. We
will come back and talk more baseball. Have you ever
seen the video? Oh yeah, yeah, it's just just people dancing.

Speaker 4 (35:25):
So I'm driving home one night and uh, and it
was it was like ten o'clock at night, and there
was a there was a Harvest Moon.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
Out that's the name of the song, by the way.

Speaker 4 (35:34):
Yeah, and I'm watching I'm on Keen Road between Keene
and Highway sixty eight, and uh, been away from the
house for a while and kind of missing sharing and
there's a Harvest Moon and that song comes on and
you feel.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
Oh.

Speaker 4 (35:49):
I had to call her and said, babe, Harvest Moon
just came on.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
I'm five minutes out.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
So many different performers called at a masterpiece, called that
song a masterpiece. Honestly, I was never a huge Neil
Young fan. I appreciate him, but I was never a
huge fan. And I was a big Crosby Sills and
Nash fan. And when they added Neil Young, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
but no, I I give him credit on that one.

(36:19):
I had heard it once before. I'd never seen that video,
and I'm watching the video and I'm like, this is
so simple, but that's what the song's all about.

Speaker 4 (36:27):
It really shows his Versatiley because it's a little different
than and very much in the needle and the damage done.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yeah, it's a different song.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
Was this was a restaurant was situated inside a redwood
forest out in California. Really shot that video, so that's
kind of yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
Uh yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
We're talking with the chain Yang with Darren and Keith
and Doug. We've been talking to a lot of Kentucky
baseball and talked about Doug's glove, which has always been
a favorite subject, and the coach has been telling us
how to be better pictures. Darren, I'm I'm wondering all
the time you spent in the miners and we've talked
to you about I think last time you were here,

(37:05):
you describe what it was like watching Aaron Judge come
up and some of the other really great players, and
Doug and I got to do minor league baseball for
a couple of summers ten years ago, and a lot
of these guys are still playing and they're the best
guys because they're still playing. But do you remember anybody
And Doug, I think you had a roommate that fit
this description, but who you thought was a can't miss

(37:25):
and for whatever reason didn't make it. There are a
lot of those guys in the miners. I'm wondering if
you encountered that.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
I could give you a list of guys that I
thought they have the potential and they never panned out.
One of them was Greg Bird with the New York
Yankees system. And Bird was actually, when he got the
Triple A, was actually a better hitter and overall player
than Aaron Judge. We actually thought Bird was the prize
of that core group wow, with Judge maybe second. And

(37:54):
Greg got up to the big leagues, was hitting and
doing well, and then things didn't go well. He got
sent back down, and he went back up, sent back down,
and then he got the injury that he never could
get over. Yeah, and was just hurt, hurt, hurt, finally released,
came back with another team, hurt released, and I think
he's completely out of the game now. But there are

(38:14):
several guys in that instance, and it's it's kind of
weird to see how once you get to that major
league level some guys have it and some guys don't.
And there's also some guys too that you see him
in the big leagues and maybe they don't work with
the New York Yankees, they get traded and go somewhere
else in their career takes off. Yeah, and it's the

(38:36):
bright lights of New York. They just can't handle that.
They go to the Minnesota Twins where there's not as
much as attention, and all of a sudden they're all stars.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
Just think of the guys that have come through UK.
I can just right off probably name you ten that
I thought guy's got a shot to him.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:53):
Good career. Yeah, in the big leagues for a long time. Yeah,
it's amazing when with injuries and guys mature a little
bit earlier, or they whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
And lose interest.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
Well, a lot of that happens too, you know.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Or they get distracted.

Speaker 4 (39:09):
Yeah, they get distracted probably morning, yes, and we don't
have to talk about what distracts them, but they do
get distracted. We had a Doug and I played with
a guy uh in the Reds organization but named Rick Colsey.
And when he first signed with the Reds, I had
the opportunity to play with him. Center fielder, could run

(39:30):
like a deer had a cannon, and they were comparing
him to Willie Mays.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Wow he was.

Speaker 4 (39:36):
It was like he was a can't miss. He hit
over five hundred and rookie ball. Then he gets to
Tampa and he's hitting over four hundred. They moved him
right up to double A and something happened.

Speaker 3 (39:47):
Uh three rivers Canada got yeah, yeah, and that that
women were three to seven to one.

Speaker 4 (39:52):
Yeah, and the distraction and they had that tract accent
and and boy they were they were they It's crazy.
That's the only town I ever played in where you
come out, you come out of the locker room. And
I was married at the time, so I tried to
sneak out of there, but there would be fifteen or
twenty girls just hanging out of outside the locker room

(40:16):
and they just, I don't know. They love baseball players
in Canada. But Rick got caught up into that and
some other things. But what he was a beautiful soul too, Yeah,
he was. He was a great guy.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
Well, our buddy Greg, Yeah, Greg met our friend, my
roommate Greg Snata to him.

Speaker 4 (40:32):
Then he was a big league all the way.

Speaker 3 (40:35):
But he had had all all five tools, yes, and
was an unbelievable athlete. He played high school basketball and
football and was I remember he came down on the
way to spring training one year. We were driving down,
we were going to double A maybe or a I
can't remember. Stopped off of my uncles and he had
a little basketball league. He said, I got you two
on the roster to play tonight. Greg standing flat footed,

(40:58):
just up, just slamming. You know, he's a great ass.
He's just a really good ass. But just injuries got him.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
So. Yeah, and sometimes they get up there and get lazy,
that's right. And if they're not superstars, it don't work. Yeah,
just it's not sustainable.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
You're talking about distractions. And I can think right at
the top of my head, there are two different UK
football players who were going to get a shot at
being really good in the SEC and therefore a chance
in the NFL. One was an old lineman, one was
a linebacker. And one of them just didn't show up

(41:32):
when it came time for summer work and camping all that,
Like anybody's seeing so and so the linebacker, and they
finally somebody said, well he's got a new girlfriend and
somebody had her number and they traced it back. He
was tending bar in South Carolina at Hilton Head or something,
because I'm.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Done, you know, no more football, you know.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
And another one was an old lineman who and I'm
not trashing women and girlfriends and all that stuff, but
this this this woman didn't like football and like this
guy a lot and said, you don't need football in
your life, you know. And he decided she was right
and tried it and realized, no, I liked football, and

(42:11):
I want to I think he went over and played
for Georgetown for a little while and it just didn't
quite work. But he was he was a can't miss guy. Yeah,
but yeah, just lost his focus, Dick.

Speaker 4 (42:20):
If any of the listeners want to read about guy,
how hard it is to make it to the big
league and how hard it is to stay in the
big leagues once you get to the big leagues. There's
there's a former pro player by the name of Dirk
Hayhurst and he's written a book called Out of My League.
He's written three or four books. He's a good writer,
very good writer. But he talks about his experience of

(42:43):
coming up through the minor leagues and and and the
challenges of that, and then seeing other teammates get moved
up and make the big leagues and he's steal it,
and then he finally makes it. And then once he
makes it, there is a pecking order, Doug. In the
big leagues if you're a rookie, you used to be. Yeah, yeah,

(43:04):
it used to be a pecking order. And so it's
hard to survive that culture because you don't know if
you belong or not.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
And it's even more difficult now. I would think when
you come up as a rookie back when we did,
and you're making sixteen thousand dollars a year and you're
surrounded by some quality players. Now you come up in
the big leagues and you're making seven hundred and fifty
thousand dollars a year, and you've got so many things

(43:33):
that got you there, like we'll pay for you to
come and get you in shape, we'll pay for your room,
we'll pay for your all this. I think I'm glad
that when we came up we had to pay for
everything you had earned it. Yeah, I mean, you had
to have six guys in a room in Class A ball,
six guys in a two bedroom is what we had
in Class A.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
And you can read about guys like that, and if
one of them was a pitcher who was pitching the
next night, you got the bed, he got the bed.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
Tr that's true, that is that's all true.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
Yeah, I think I can share this story now the
Statute of limitations. But when we were when John Sadak
and I were with the Scranton team, the Yankees Triple
A affiliate with the Pictures, some pictures would go up
and then they'd come back and they would all tell
us that throughout their whole career, if things were kind
of iffying and inning, they could look over in the
dugout and the pitching coach kind of clap, you know,

(44:22):
come on, let's go up there. In New York, they
would look to the dugout, Joe Girardi and Larry Rothschild
would just be staring back at him. Just figure it out,
do your job, and if you didn't, you knew where
you were going when the game was over.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
Well, there's a lot of that, and there's something to
be said for that too, because it doesn't matter what
anybody tells you. If it doesn't a light doesn't go
on in your own mind, you're not gonna get it
in any so. But when I look back, you know
the guys that we came up, and you're thinking, why
did he make it? Why did he not make it?
How did that happen? Because I know for a fact,

(44:58):
when I left Kentu and I went to this tryout camp,
the furthest thing in my mind was going away to
play pro ball. There was no chance I'm gonna go
have fun out here at this tryout camp and see
what happens. And then you make it and you go
through a ball and you're thinking, all right, I'm ready
to leave. I went to Russ Nixon Russ. I got
a three year scholarship to go back and play basketball

(45:20):
at Bethel College and Tennessee. He said, give it one
more year, and I'm thinking why I had. You know,
I played three positions. I didn't hit good, I didn't
do nothing good. And then the next year you get
moved up a level and you start winning some awards
and start saying, oh, wait a minute, the game starts
slowing down a little bit. But it until that hits you,
you don't know what you're gonna do. Yeah, because there's

(45:41):
there's a thousand guys out there right now that all
think they're gonna be Major League Baseball players. Well, we
know that's not gonna happen.

Speaker 4 (45:47):
So yeah, and then you know, guys like me and
Doug from Kentucky. You know, we show up in camp
and there's guys from Miami and LA Yeah, and Dallas
and Puerto.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
Rico and private coaches.

Speaker 4 (46:00):
Yeah, and these guys are really good and they had
our good and they have the confidence and that you
know that that uh, that arrogance the way they carry them.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
Did you ever have that? Because I never did, and
even to today, I don't. I never had that. There
was an inter confidence, but I never had that cocky
confidence that the good players really have.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
I never had it never.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
I mean, and there's still time.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
Yeah, I get it when I'm on the show, but
broadcast food.

Speaker 4 (46:30):
When I competed, when I was out there and they
brought me in the ninth inning and there's two men
on base, you had to have it, yeah, and you
just you just get consumed with competing. But in terms
of hanging out in the dugout in the locker room,
I never had that.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
See, and I can still be in all being on
the like being on first and the first baseman's really
start on. I'm thinking, I don't know how this happened,
but it's really cool. Instead of saying, you know, where
am I going next? Yeah? You know, you start looking
around and and it's just.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Really we're thinking asking for an autograph. We got to
step out, hold that dog, mister Hendrick, and we will
come back and talk more of baseball. This was the
song that elevated George Harrison as a songwriter in the
eyes of the experts and the critics and all that.
With Lennon and McCartney, he was the youngest Beatle and

(47:24):
you know, those two guys were writing a hit after hit,
and he kind of caught up with this song. The
other one was this song was written while the Beatles
were struggling with being businessmen. They were going to meetings
every day with Apple Core meaning CRPS the people at Apple,
and Harrison said, you know, they just got tired of

(47:45):
you know, coming here, sign this do that makes this decision?
Nothing about making music. So he played Hookey one day
and went over to Eric Clapton's house, walked around the
house with one of his acoustic guitars and that's how
he wrote this song and songs like that. The backstore
is those are the best.

Speaker 4 (48:01):
Yeah, I mean, and and that's, in my opinion, the
best album of all time in popular music?

Speaker 2 (48:07):
Is that right?

Speaker 4 (48:07):
In my opinion, it's just beautiful and and and the
crazy thing it's it's it was a bunch of songs
they sort of threw together, yes, because like you said,
they were distracted. They were getting a lot of done
and close to the end. Yeah, and they just put
all these songs together that were partially finished.

Speaker 3 (48:23):
And you know, there's somebody out there listening now, going,
what's an album?

Speaker 1 (48:30):
That's right when you download more than one song and
then the song title itself. They were sitting around they
had some goofy potentials and Paul McCartney said, of course
the studios on Abby Road, and they just said the
street sign right out there says Abbey Road. Let's just
chuse that. Okay, done, And they were done with a discussion,
and as you said, it's it's, if not the best known,

(48:52):
the best, Yeah, Sergeant Pepper may be better, you know,
better known, but that was my favor anyhow, Thank you.
That's that's it's my walk up music.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
So if we walked across the street, Coach, would you
be the one barefoot? Yes? Probably Coach Madison's dead. People
been saying that long.

Speaker 3 (49:12):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
He talked about that too. He was wearing sandals or
something and he just did just didn't feel good and
his feast kicked them off, and I'm gonna go barefoot.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
So anyhow, that's what the fake McCartney says.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Yeah, the real one's hanging out with Elvis and JFK.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
That's right, all right, You were.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Gonna make a point there. Do you remember what it
was before.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
The Yeah, it was we were talking about guys that
didn't make it and how hard it was to be
in the big leagues. And I think Doug had referenced
something about, you know, being around some guys that make
you just go kind of wow. And I remember Steve
cars Or pitching coach with the Carolina Mudcats. He was
a reliever for the New York Yankees, got traded to
the Braves and became a closer there during their big

(49:53):
dynasty run under Bobby Cox. And he said he got
traded and walked into the Braves' clubhouse and he looked
to the clubhouse manager, and he's like, where do you
you know what locker do you want me to have?
Where do you want me? And he just said, oh,
right over, there's an empty one. So he walks over
and he says, I'm sitting my gear down in this
empty locker and everything. And then I kind of looked
my right. I see Maddox on the thing to my right,

(50:14):
and I'm like, well, that's that's kind of cool doing
some more stuff, and then he said. Tom Glavin walks
over and sits down in the one next to him.
He said, I'm between glabbing and the Mattox.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
Did you have moments like that in a red clubhouse?
You must have, yep.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
And I had moments out of the Red clubhouse like
that when we went to Bob Gibson golf tournament one time, who,
as you know, became good friends, came to our tournament.
So we get there and where I walk in and
Bob says, do you know everybody here? And I looked
at limb Swan was sitting there. Dude, he says, this
is Sandy Kofax. He ay, Reggie Jackson. Well, we'd met

(50:49):
a long time ago, and all of a sudden, I'm
sitting there and my wife looks up and she went,
what's wrong with this?

Speaker 2 (51:02):
As only OGA can say?

Speaker 3 (51:03):
Right, But I still, you know, because I was a
fan of the game first, and I want to be
a fan again so bad if they would quit screwing
it up in so many ways. But because the game
was so good, and it was so good to me,
And when you sit here and talk about it, I
mean at the fourteen years of my life in pro baseball,

(51:26):
just it changed.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
What happened to it?

Speaker 3 (51:29):
In your opinion to the game, yes, I think the
lack of respect for the game itself, to me, is
the biggest issue in it now if and it's happening
not just to baseball, it's the law of the sports too.
Like the live golf tour that they started. Everybody says, well,
I mean, how do you tell a guy you can't

(51:49):
go over there, and then we're gonna pay one hundred
fifty million you don't even have to play golf. I
understand that, but it kind of kills all the history
of the stuff of the PGA and baseball I think too.
Right now, Baseball to me is very hypocritical. I didn't
think we're going to talk about this and we might not,
but what we want with what they do with Pete,
you know, they wait till Pete's dead and I and

(52:09):
I said that to you. I don't know how long
a go. I said, now you watch it. When he dies,
he'll put him.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
In that's right.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
Uh, it's that's to me, is not right if they
wanted to do it right. What they should have done
is in the last month when they saw Pete really
struggling and he was is they said, guys, this is
not good. We need to get this done now, just
so Pete knows.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
And uh or you know if indeed, and you and
I have talked about this. Eight months before he died,
he wrote a letter absolutely apologizing, admitting to everything.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
And you know, I've changed my mind on that too,
because when it first happened, he broke a rule. And
you're right, I'm saying, but.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
I disagree respectfully with why you changed your mind. You
did because baseball is taking sponsorship money from gamblings.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
Absolutely they are.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
But to me, that and you and I have talked
about this on the air before, that should have nothing
to do with it. Because when I go to a
game and you know, if Doug Flynn boots a ground ball,
I need to know that there's a you know, they're
doing everything they can to see to it that he
didn't boot the ground ball because he got money they
gave and they look people have been gambling on sports

(53:17):
since Cavin were throwing rocks, you know.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
But but to me, the way it was done by
Pro Baseball makes it look very hypocritical. It does, and
and I hate that. Now it's going to be interesting
to see what happens with his family and with all
the stuff that's gonna come because it's what three years
down the road.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
But let me throw this out there. And Keith was
a pro athlete, and Darren you worked in pro ball.
To Doug's point, yeah, they they fumbled this, there's no question,
but what it did when Darren you may have read
a lot of this stuff. It prompted quite the discussion
online on the air. And I read a column where

(53:57):
I think it was The Athletic when and interviewed twelve
different Hall of famers. Did you see this?

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Players?

Speaker 1 (54:04):
I didn't read it, players, front office. You know, various
walks of baseball should Pete go in?

Speaker 3 (54:12):
Now?

Speaker 1 (54:12):
And he was split down the middle, including in some
of the athletes were adamant, still saying, no, is this
former Hall of Famers current Hall of Famers fairs? I mean, yeah, yeah, Maner,
Tony LaRussa, Pat Gillick.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
What Larusa say.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
I think he said I'm on the fence about it
or something.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
Anyway, I'll just tell you that right now.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
I wasn't going to go that far, but I was
just sitting there thinking about the fact that Larusa has
his own demons, thank.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
You, Yeah, exactly. And there will be a lot of
people that will start doing the comparison now because whether
they're not let me in because I use steroids, or
I had a.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
Drug issue or and here that's the crux of it
for me. If you're not going to let Pete in,
then stop the discussion of the steroid guys, because they cheated.
They flat cheated. He bet on the game, and he's
admitted he bet on them. As these guys and Tony
Kemp does not have a National League Most Valuable Player Award.
If Ryan Bron hadn't taken steroids with the Milwaukee Brewers,

(55:09):
Tony Kemp would be an MVP. Aaron Judge would be
your all time home run champions if not for steroids,
because Barry Bonds wouldn't fit seventy three.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
How many position players were basically forced out of the
game by pitchers, sorry, coach, pitchers who were on steroids.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Yep, you know, or they powered them, or they couldn't
hit the fifty home runs because they weren't on it.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
That's right, right, And and see back to what we
were talking about, the hypocrisy. You can't tell me that
Major League Baseball didn't know that when Sosa and McGuire
were going through that they were doing.

Speaker 4 (55:41):
Come on, they would look at him. Yeah, it was
it was Baseball was coming back. If people were.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
Saved it though, I think that that year got people
to stay around the game. Cal Ripken going for that
street have saved the game that one year as well.
And so Baseball, whatever it took to save it, they
were going to do it regardless of what going on.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Hey, Mark McGuire did interviews in front of his locker
with a big tub of creatine over his shoulder. He
didn't try to hide it, but then he fumbled it
when he went and sat in front of Congress, and
she just said, yeah, I did it.

Speaker 3 (56:15):
It was legal, Like Andy Pettit. Andy Pettitt said, yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
Thank you, he did it right, but you know he
McGuire and so said. They fumbled that another.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
Several levels, several levels, several of them, but they were
the most high profile. They put some guys in there
that and we all know used. There's some guys in
the hall right now that you talk to anybody throughout
the game they used, and they know they use. But
they kept it quiet on the download. They didn't strut it.
They didn't go out and I mean, how you miss McGuire.

(56:45):
I mean, he's six y five and wait two seventy
I guess.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Just to wrap up, my point is, if you're gonna
put the steroid guys in, Pete's got to go in.
And I'm fine if you want to argue, well, if
Pete goes in, the steroid guys go in. My point
is it's a part of the history of the sport
and there needs to be something said about it.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
Couldn't Darren, couldn't he couldn't they put in and just
say he's in the Hall of Fame and then at
the bottom of his plaqusay make it a part of
his singer, part of his story.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Steroid wing.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Yeah, all right, all right, we got to step out.
Only twenty five percent of us here have performed on
stage with a group like the Yolks.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
That's true.

Speaker 3 (57:20):
Wa performs kind of a loose term.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Well, you could have been juggling or doing hand puppets.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
Might as well as him. Actually, yeah, we saw him.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
What we had a thrill.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
They had to be a thrill get up down stage
with him.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Yeah, this is like nineteen eighty so they were they
were hot, boy, I mean, they were really good.

Speaker 4 (57:38):
I shared this with Darren on the radio. They always
asked me to sing at church. But it's on as
it's on a hill far away. That's a good hymn.
It's a very good Yo you and Max. They're remarkable.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
Uh. And the fact they're moving on. There's three of them,
there are eighty years of age right now. They got
a twenty eight year old singer Joe's part and so
this is gonna be the farewell. They're just they're really
Last year we went up and saw them at State
Fair and I went up with one of the Gatling
boys and they were wonderful. They had lost sixteen members

(58:16):
of their little family of friends in one year. Yeah,
and so they if you.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
Google them, go to wiki and look up and it
tells you the current members, but then past members it's
like thirty something. Yeah, because at one point I didn't
know this. There were more of an eight piece.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
Well they were a gospel group too.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Well, they were gospel. They were popped once they finally
settled on a country.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
You know what their success They used to tell me,
he said, when you joined them, I told them how
good they really were? They said, the success He said,
we got a gospel quartet with a rock and roll band.
That's right. Yeah, and that's exactly what they had.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
And so and Elvira put him on the big map. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Well, you know they're not the diginal Oakreage Boys, that's true.
The original Oakreage Boys were out of Oakreage, Tennessee. That's
why they had the name. Yeah, and they were completely
gospel too, and then they passed the name on to
the current Well know.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
That, see, folks, that's why you tune in the chain gang.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
Right, that's right, we're talking to this Tennessee boy. Now
he got to pretty good handle.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
On its true. That's very true. Uh, we've been kind
of mixing music in baseball, and uh we were talking about,
uh the peed row. It is kind of the ped
Rose decision, but shoreless Joe Jackson as well, though I've
told you more than once he never should have been
banned anyway. But I'm going to pull this back to
our original discussion about gloves. Eight minut Out was such

(59:40):
a great movie. I hope you all saw that, Yes,
but I got a story about that one. Remember well,
were you were?

Speaker 2 (59:46):
You were you?

Speaker 1 (59:47):
You weren't quite active with the Reds back then. What anyway,
real quickly remember the scenes from the games in the movie.
At the end of an inning, the players would run
off the field and their gloves. Can you imagine?

Speaker 3 (59:59):
Yeah, So I get this call one day and it says,
is this mister Flynn. Yes it is mister Flynn. We
appreciate you try and sending in your bye bye bye blah,
but we just don't think you're right for the movie.
And I said, uh, okay, what movie. I don't have
any idea. So I go home and I'm telling old
and I said, Honey, I get this weird call day.
She went, oh, I sent your baseball card in to

(01:00:22):
these people because they were looking for extras. I said, well,
they called it day and said.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
Set the wrong car, and you have more than one car.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
And it's about tiger carts. You sent my very last car.
And they said that's not what they were looking for.
And I went, how about that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
That's too bad.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
One of Phil Mankowski was in one of them. Might
have been the natural Phil play. I played with him
in Detroit a little bit. Yeah, and uh, he was
in that movie and they used a lot of his stuff.
So and he said he had a blast.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Of filmed at the Old Rock in Buffalo, New York.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Yes, sir, well, I was looking for it earlier, and
I think I've got it. Let me see here. How
about this.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
Here's a swinging the tribe today. Plaf Thatch goes Nixon
looking up.

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
Daily went Daily wins it, Daily wins it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Kentucky defeats in c State five to four on a
walk off home run five Mitchell.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Daily happier times when the Wildcats won their first and
only win in the College Award Series at Omaha with
the walk off home run that followed the ninth inning
home run. Man, you guys, we're all over that.

Speaker 4 (01:01:27):
You know, Mitch Daily should be one of those guys
like don't I don't know who all, but there's a
ton of them. You should never have to buy a meal.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
One, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
Or Ryan Nicholson as well, because his home running the ninth.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
That's right, those guys.

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
I mean I hit three home runs at game right, Nolan?

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
Yeah, no, four, All five runs were off a home runn.

Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
Is that right?

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
You remember Nolan Richardson, don't you? I mean, oh yeah,
Nolan McCarthy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
Oh, Nolan McCarthy, yeah, two game in the seventh, the two,
and he struck him out, but the ball got away
from Webber McCarthy the third, there's nobody at cover of
the play. It's a foot rice eight times across safe.
Nobody covered home for orget State. McCarthy scores from second
as Kraft Smith arrives at first. What's a three to

(01:02:14):
two Kentucky lead.

Speaker 4 (01:02:15):
What a heads up play by McCarthy. The pitcher was
lackadaisical about covering home, and McCarthy never slowed down. He
was barely around third base, made a beautiful slide well
ahead of the throw.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Im dropping coach.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Now you see why can't I get that kind of
expert analysis in the TV booth it's only over in
the radio. But now kidding, Doug and I we were
in that booth, but we're in the stadium. In the stadium, Yeah,
we didn't have a chance to call him because the
big boys were calling it. But uh wow, those were
great And who knows, maybe it happens again, maybe they
get hot next week. But those names that everybody heard

(01:02:53):
will bring us back as this is our last segment
to the baseball Cats. So many of those great players
moved on, and you know, and Nick in our pregame
meetings with with the network guys and with Dug and me,
you know, he keeps telling them, look, we lost this guy,
this guy, this guy all to the pros. We lost
all our pitchers and all that. But those guys just

(01:03:16):
made the explosive plays. And I guess, Darren, we we
just didn't see a lot. These are talented players they
got this year and I'm not I'm not dogging them.
They played hard, they played well at.

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
Times, but they were they were baseball players.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
Yeah, he's got a whole lot of sizzle.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
They were there.

Speaker 4 (01:03:32):
I mean you look at Nolan and uh and Walt Smith,
Grant Smith great.

Speaker 3 (01:03:36):
I mean, these guys were ball players. They they had
a great baseball i Q. I thought, yes, I mean
they if something need to be done, we'll get it done.
Might look we're gonna get it done because they're gonna
That's not to.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
Say that this team doesn't have it every I think
there's just more last year.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
Yeah, there was a determination. I mean Grant Smith said it,
I need to make omaha like I need to breathe
or like I need to I mean, that was that
whole team last year. It was just a different group
and they were experienced, they were older. They knew what
needed to be done and went out and did it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
Yeah. I mean they got the pits when they needed to,
get the hit when they needed and they went on
the field. It got to the point where at the
end they're gonna win.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
And the name we haven't brought up yet was you
had a guy in left field who had come from
a small college Charleston Southern, and put together a first
round draft picks season and Ryan Walshmith now as bad
went to sleep a little lateness in the year, but
he's easy having a big time in the minors and
how many times did he come through offensively ended?

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
Yeah, he was just the key.

Speaker 3 (01:04:40):
He was the key, he really was. They put him
in that leadoff.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Remember he blew his knee and any of us would
have taken a year to come back, and he said,
I'll be ready.

Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
He was two strikes. He became a really good two
strike in. I mean, you seem he'd go up there
looking for a pitch and he'd hack at it. He
didn't get it, but man, when he got two strikes,
it was just.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
And then he got a Mason Moore and guys like that,
you know, that rotation, and they were a healthy coach.
Maybe not all year, but by the end of the year.
Nick pointed this out, each of the last two years
teams have won regionals. By the end of the season,
everybody was healthy.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
Yeah, I think it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:17):
Johnny Humble too, I mean, oh yeah, what happened to him?
And in Columbia South Carolina and not many pitchers survived that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
Yeah, and even went back to back homers.

Speaker 4 (01:05:30):
Yeah, and I'm going, wow, how do you overcome that?
I mean, it's just a tough thing.

Speaker 3 (01:05:37):
Yeah, that's right. They had a two run lead, didn't it. Yeah,
they go back to back to back.

Speaker 4 (01:05:40):
Yeah, and it took a while, but man, he came
on strong and showed some real courage and confidence.

Speaker 3 (01:05:47):
Are you feeling good they're going to be in the tournament?

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
Yeah? I do. As we sit here today, I feel
like they're going to be in unless it gets really
wild with the bubble this weekend. I just don't think
the bubble is strong. And you look at Kentucky's resume.
They beat Louisville, it was a series win at Tennessee, got
a series win at A and M. Swept Oklahoma, And
to me, sweeping Oklahoma in a three game weekend series
is a lot better than winning one game on a

(01:06:09):
neutral site in the conference tournament because those games are
not weighted the same.

Speaker 4 (01:06:13):
But here's the thing, Darren, I've been through this so
many times. They can find a way to let you in,
they can find a way to keep you out.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
I'm not thinking like that though. He's living. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
Yeah, I was one of the new era. I was
one of the people that had to come over and
interview him, say what happened? And I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
Yeah, you know, there's the bubble can make you sweat,
that's for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
I really wish though, and if they don't get in,
it's going to be hard to say, well, you know,
we got screwed or something, because the way they played
the last little bit. I mean, look at how many
gate what was the final and thirty conference games? How
many they had to lead in?

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
Twenty seven of them, twenty eight of thirty one if
you want to count the essay.

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
Twenty eight to thirty one.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
I had a lead.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
They had a lead, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
Yeah, but those were killer losses at Vandy oh manah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Oh, Look, I hate when I hear somebody say they
melted down. I'm like, they didn't melt it out. Fandy
went and hit home runs Like there's nothing you can
do with that. Here, the pill that sign hittinst McCoy
was not a bad pitch. It was out. It was
meant to be in the dirt, but it was out,
and that kid just reached down there and sent it
the other way.

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
See, that doesn't bother me. When when you hit a
home run. What bothers me is you take a three
run lead out and you walk the first gown for it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
That's what drives me. That's always how it starts.

Speaker 3 (01:07:35):
Yeah, and when we saw that a lot. How many
times this year did you see Kentucky take a lead
only to give it up in the very next inning,
half of the inning. And so those are things that
didn't happen last year, right, and uh, it's just yeah,
it's you know, I mean, gosh, we all want them
to win because how much fun and plus from a

(01:07:56):
selfie standpoint of view, broadcasting winning baseball is much more
fun and what.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
That did for the community last year.

Speaker 3 (01:08:04):
And years they come out too.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
Absolutely. Yeah, well, uh, as always, we are out of
time so quickly thanks to the change.

Speaker 3 (01:08:11):
I don't want to go.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
Well, you can stay here and do a little laundry.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
Gotta go home, but you got to get out of here.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
That's gonna do it for tonight. A quick thank you
to my buddies Doug Flynn, Darren Hedrick and Keith Madison.
We send text messages to each other all night long,
every night, the text chain that Keith's wife Sharon has
dubbed the chain Gang. So every now and then we
drag him into the garage. We talk baseball, we talk music,
and again, if you're listening via the podcast, we're sorry,

(01:08:41):
but copyright rules mean we cannot play the music that
we're talking about, but we will if you missed it.
We will replay this show at some point coming up
in the next few weeks as the summer months rolled in.
Coming up Monday, it'll be a best of show, except
we're gonna lead off with the news about Kentucky baseball.
Did the Wildcats get into the NCA Tournament or did

(01:09:03):
they not? We find out Monday afternoons, starting at noon
when the selection show. So we hope we'll have some
reaction from Nick Menngon and or one of the players.
That's it. Good night from the garage in Lexington.

Speaker 4 (01:09:17):
Je, gosh, you lolled get.

Speaker 5 (01:09:20):
The ball around the enemy. You lolled the gag you
right down the first you lily hear it out of
their dugout. Did you know what that makes you? Burry

(01:10:09):
tact show anything then.

Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
To take.

Speaker 5 (01:10:58):
Stomi in contorting to theos