2025-06-13 - BBI

Vince Marrow speaks out; Travis Perry on his first practice as an Ole Miss Rebel; (13:00) Brandon Garrison on how he plans to improve this upcoming season; (19:00) Washington Post writer Chuck Culpepper, formerly with the HL; (39::00) ex-Cat DB Van Hiles on the impact of Marrow's departure; (59:00) a look back at an eventful week; (1:11:00) Heroes, Fools and Flakes and a wise man on the value of equality - as long as nobody is more equal than I am...

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Big Blue and Sider Dick Gabriel with
you on a Friday as we wrap up the week,
and we will be talking football today, basketball as well,
of course, but football in the news. And for one thing,
seventy eight days away from Kentucky's football season beginning. We
know this thanks to our buddy Corey Price. He is
our statistician on the UK Network and he puts all

(00:21):
kinds of interesting stuff on Twitter. And I got to
tell you a couple of days ago. I mentioned the
fact that he had eighty days away, of course, and
had a photo of one of the football Wildcats and
I was pretty sure that this is who it was,
but I wasn't entirely certain that. Now I am checked
it out, the number eighty. It was a player celebrating

(00:41):
a touchdown. It was TC Drake. TC Drake was a
tight end who played at Kentucky from six to nine.
And like too many tight ends, and yeah, we're about
to talk about Vince Merrow. They just don't catch enough
football to satisfy you and me and Kentucky fans, everre
for various reasons, chief among them, they have needed the

(01:04):
tight end to stay in and block so much over
the last several years, but we have yet to see
anybody approach the effectiveness of a Jacob Tammy who played
with Drake. That's why Drake didn't catch more balls as
a tight end or James Well. I don't think you'll
ever see anybody brake the James Whalen record. He was
technically an h back but listed as a tight end

(01:26):
and played of course under Mummy and was an All American.
But Drake. The picture that Corey Price used was celebrating
the only touchdown he ever scored at Kentucky, and it
was huge. It was the first touchdown in Kentucky's upset
win over then top ranked LSU Wildcats won that one

(01:50):
in overtime forty three thirty seven three overtimes really and
knocked LSU from the top of the polls. Kentucky was
seventeenth that year. That was the best offense in the
history of Kentucky football. Coordinated by Joker Phillips. Rich Brooks
was the head coach, Andre Woodson Keen and Burton, Jacob Tammy, Dickey, Lyons,

(02:13):
RAFFI had little Tony Dixon. They had it all offensively,
really good offensive line, not quite enough defense, that year,
they would have gone a lot farther, but anyhow, Drake
caught a deflected pass in the back of the end
zone on Kentucky's second drive and scored. It was a
two yard touchdown pass that would be the only touchdown

(02:37):
he scored in his entire career. It was the only
pass he caught that season. He had played as a
freshman year before, eight games special teams. Basically, he played
in all thirteen games as a sophomore, even started one
or two but was a blocker. But he did catch

(02:57):
that touchdown pass and gave Kentucky the early and everybody
was like, wow, Kentucky's leading LSU. And then it became
the greatest game I've ever covered, not just because Kentucky
won and upset the top ranked team in the country
in overtime, so that there was added drama, you know,
lon of seber Field goals and things like that, but
it was just a great football game by two teams

(03:18):
that were on top of their respective games that day.
TC Drake the following year caught a dozen balls for
a couple hundred yards, no touchdowns unfortunately for him, and
average fifteen yards per catch then and nine things dropped
off Randall, Cobb became more of the featured receiver, but
he caught seven balls, played in eleven games as a

(03:40):
senior in O nine, but that one touchdown was huge
U TC Drake unfortunately, about three years later after he
got out of UK, was seriously injured in a motorcycle
accident in his home county, Nelson County. But the photo
we saw the other day thanks to Corey Price, was

(04:02):
TC Drake catching one of the biggest touchdown passes really
in the history of UK football because it got things
started for Kentucky. In the upset of LSU I mentioned
Vince Marrow. It is so weird and the comments are
circulated by now came out Lead yesterday. It's official, as
Jeff Brahm announces Thursday that Vince Marrow has been added

(04:25):
to the staff. It is so strange to read a
U of L press release extolling the virtues of a
coach from Kentucky as saying they said that the twelve
highly successful seasons at Kentucky, well not all of them,
you know, some better than others, some recruiting seasons better

(04:48):
than others. But that's the nature, as you know of
a pr release, You've got to put all your best
stuff out there, Jeff Brom saying, the he amplifies the
highest standards of collegiate coaching and recruiting success. Commitment to
player development, exceptional ability to connect with young athletes, which

(05:08):
is true, have made him one of the best in
the business. And Vince will be a huge asset to
the staff. I was reading this and I had forgotten
that when Vince Merrow was in Nebraska, and that's where
Mark Stoops plucked him, you know, brought him to Kentucky
and immediately gave him a huge job right recruiting coordinator.

(05:29):
He was a GA at Nebraska because he had been
coaching primarily in the pro ranks, NFL, Europe, the UFL,
but he had been a GA at Nebraska. This is
when you look at what happened in Kentucky. That's a
meteoric rise. And now he has the relationship with Jeff
Brom going back to when they played in the XFL.

(05:53):
He said, Jeff and I have known in the release,
have known each other for more than twenty five years.
I've always admired and respected him in the bron family,
and he said, I love the state of Kentucky. This
has become my home. The opportunity to take on this
exciting role in the state where I have so many
incredible relationships was something I couldn't pass up. Any thanks stoops,
any thanks to fans and hopes that his lifelong friendships remain. Yeah,

(06:18):
there are outspoken people on Twitter saying, don't bother because yeah,
it's uku of l and my pal John Wong, the doc,
the retired North Thedonis who writes a blog and covers
UK for small town newspapers. If you go to Wong's whinings,
we'll get John. I think John's out of the country
right now. We'll get him on here soon. He wrote

(06:41):
a scathing commentary that basically encapsulates I would think the
feelings of a lot of Kentucky fans just about feeling
heartbroken and betrayed. It's pretty funny actually, But yeah, it's
official now, Vince Marrow and he hasn't yet spoken as
I'm sure he has by the time you'll hear this,
But as we record this, he has not yet spoken

(07:02):
publicly about his move. So just another weird chapter in
the history of Kentucky football. While we're talking to UK football,
the stadium's going to get a facelift. Already, the Board
of Trustees began consideration of proposed investments up to one
hundred and ten million dollars in UK Athletics facilities over

(07:26):
the next few years. Meanwhile, they're gonna have to come
up with the money to pay players. And as my
Paljepikoro sat in here with us yesterday, always wonders where
are they going to get this money? Yeah, that's a
good question. Now, this is just a proposal presented by
UK Athletics, But as Eli Kapoluto said, the goal is

(07:47):
to incentivize innovation remain a premier program by pushing to
examine creative ways to grow generate revenues necessary to support
our success. This will generate revenues means, of course, looking
for more money, and they're looking right at you. Ticket
prices will go up, that happens, but they're looking at

(08:09):
fifteen million for maintenance at Kroger Field Stadium, thirteen million
to renovate Kroger Field corners, suites and elevators. This is
to take care of the people who foot the biggest
chunk of the bill. Yes, you pay for your tickets,
but those folks you might resent sitting up in suites.
They're paying the big money, as you know, and you

(08:32):
can resent them all you want, but you know what,
you've got the opportunity to do the same thing. You
want to spend that kind of money and invest in
the entertainment that is UK football. You can do that,
rent yourself a suite because those people who do that
are right in the checks. We know this. Five million

(08:53):
bucks to improve soccer and softball. UK Softball, by the way,
is going to host the SEC tournament next season. Eight
million bucks for initial design of a west end zone
club space and Wi Fi improvements at croker Field. That's right,
Why Fi improvements. It's always been terrible for whatever reason,

(09:16):
but they believe they can make it better. And if
you're wondering about how to pay for it, they've got
a proposal for an additional thirty one million dollar operating
loan to be repaid with interest as you can moves forward.
And by the way, they've done this before. They have
borrowed money paid it back with interest, so that's how

(09:37):
that works. They're that's soaking state taxpayers. They're borrowing money.
It's just when these figures get so huge, it's amazing,
so roll that into the house settlement. There's a lot
going on financially with college sports and with UK specifically.
We talked about the acc SEC challenge for the men

(09:58):
they're playing. North Carolina are going to play Miami in
Miami Coral Gables on December third, so Kenny Brooks and
his team will make a long road trip for that one.
Em Plate Sin's December tenth of twenty seventeen. Wildcats lost
that one, but they've won six of eight against the Hurricanes.

(10:19):
Before we get to the break, a couple of basketball notes.
Mock drafts are coming out now, ESPN's latest. They have
some of the writers debating who's going to go in
the first round. No second round, so we don't see
any Kobe Bray or anybody else from Kentucky. But ESPN's
experts obviously believe Cooper Flag will go first, but they

(10:44):
also think at least one of them at Konkin Nipple
will go second, shooting guard, shooting forward. That would mean
that a school has the top two picks in a draft.
And you know this first time since twenty twelve when
Anthony Davis went number one and Michael kid Gilchris went

(11:07):
number two a D. He's still playing. Michaels retired, but
that was pretty cool, wasn't it that night to see
him going to and a surprise? And MKG never had
huge stats in terms of points and rebounds consistently in
the NBA, but what he did have, even on bad
teams was incredibly good plus minus numbers, which I always

(11:29):
thought was fascinating. I don't always put a lot of
stock in plus minus, but it seems like it makes
more sense in the NBA. One other basketball note, Ole Miss,
like everybody else, is out working with their basketball program,
including brand new guard Travis Perry. He talked to the
media after the very first practice and talked about what

(11:52):
led him to Oxford. Yeah, you know, I was.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
I'm very pleased with my freshman season at Kentucky enough
like we had a great group guys. I was able
to learn a ton from and just kind of transform
my game. It's hard for any freshman coming in, especially
for a freshmen coming into the SEC at the best
conference ever in college basketball. So I was very blessed
to have that opportunity. So I have nothing but love

(12:15):
and respect for those guys. Wish them all the best.
But whenever I got into Portal, I felt like that
Coach Beard's vision for me was exactly what I was
looking for. And I felt like we had a lot
of guys coming here that wanted to win, wanted to
compete at a high level, and I felt like I
could come in and impact that.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
Do you want to watch the entire media gathering, It's
on YouTube. Just type in Travis Perry and it'll come up.
But it's just so weird to see the kids sitting
there next to Chris Beard, great coach, with an old
Miss T shirt, you know, in the backdrop, whatever the
sponsor was, but it's like a time warp seeing Travis
Perry wearing an ole Miss T shirt. Up next, we'll

(12:53):
talk Entucky basketball here from Brandon Garrison. He talked with
the media this week and a little bit later on
Chuck Culpe of the Washington Post formerly with The Hero Leader.
Chuck covers a lot of college sports, so we'll get
his take on what's been going on, and of course
Van Hiles, former Kentucky football defensive back, will get caught
up get his thoughts on the Big Dog. Moving on

(13:13):
that and more on the Big Bloe Siders six thirty
WLAP Welcome back coming up at the bottom of the hour.
Chuck Culpepper of the Washington Post, formerly with the Hero Leader,
we'll talk a lot about the state of college sports today.
A little bit later, Van Hiles. He analyzes UK football
SEC football on the interweb. He is a great commentator
when it comes to Wildcat football, and of course, the

(13:35):
former UK defensive back himself mentioned Brandon Garrison talked to
him earlier this week. He was one of two Wildcats
also talk with otega Oway. Garrison coming back was never
much of a mystery. Like like Oway, and Garrison figures
to get more minutes and if he can begin to
match the effectiveness in the high post of Amari Willia,

(14:01):
then the Wildcats are already ahead of the game literally
and figuratively. But of course the question is, and he
answered it more than once, how will you get better?
What are we going to see this coming season?

Speaker 2 (14:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (14:13):
First thing, you can just fight the leader role. I'm
improving on that, so I f like that held my
game overall, just like the confidence point of building my game,
you know, just handing on the offseason, improving my overall
game just from like shooting him, you know, and just
little things like that. So I fel like my game
will improve a lot his upcoming year.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
Mark Pope has talked a lot about year one to
year two with his players, with his staff, and he
says he made it sound like it's inevitable that if
a guy puts in the work, knowing the way that
Pope's system operates, both on and off the floor, that
guys make these huge strides. So somebody asked Garrison about

(14:54):
what kind of conversations he did with Pope regarding how
to get better from year one to year two.

Speaker 3 (15:00):
First of talking about like being the leader, trying to
you know, leave this this team this year, but you know,
him just telling me, you know, he got to be
in the best condition, obviously improving my overall game, you know,
just taking that next step. That's that's all he'd been
preaching to me this offseason.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
Garrison last year had modest numbers overall six points a game,
four rebounds a game, two assists per game as a sophomore,
and played in all thirty five games When he was healthy.
He had seven double figure scoring efforts and also led
the team in blocks seven times and steals seven times,

(15:39):
and on three occasions led the team in rebounding. So
he had his moments. In the n SA tournament, went
over Troy thirteen points, six boards, a couple of us,
his two steals. He got better, I firmly believe as
the year went on. Had a great game against ls
Year fifteen points, four assists, three steals and the road

(16:03):
win at Oklahoma his home state transferred in from Oklahoma State,
but he had twelve points, four boards, three steals, two blocks,
and you know, so we're talking about it was essentially
like a lot of guys. But you know, compared to
Mary Williams, was a part time player but had full
time effects on teams when he had his big nights.

(16:27):
So I think it's fair for fans and coaches to
expect even more from Garrison. His averages were a little
bit better at Oklahoma State, probably played more minutes average
nearly twenty three minutes a game at Okay State. Average
seven and a half, five and a half boards. So

(16:48):
I'm curious to see what this guy does. And he
mentioned leadership, so he said he's already talking to some
of the younger guys, which is good news. Speaking of news,
earlier this week, we talk with John Clay, who retires
from The Hero Leader at the end of the fiscal
year June thirtieth after forty plus years. Well, we got

(17:09):
a response from Rick Bosic of WDRB dot com or reaction,
I should say, because he and John Clay are our
very close friends. They're on the road a lot together,
they cover a lot of the same games. Well earlier
today and we, as I said, talk to Rick on
the show a couple of nights ago. He announced today

(17:31):
that he is retiring. Rick Boset stepping down after fifty
years of covering sports. Most of his career spent in
the state of Kentucky. He's from Indiana, went to IU,
started his career at a couple of newspapers there, but
came to the Courier Journal in nineteen seventy eight. And

(17:52):
I remember that I'm like, Okay, who's the new guy
from the CJ. And you know I had delivered the
Courier Journal. I was a stringer for the cur Journal
like the Caurier Journal, and then Rick in twenty twelve
went to WDRB, which I think has a tremendous digital
platform when it comes to covering sports. And Eric Crawford

(18:13):
came from the CJ. Rick's a great writer. He's a
great journalist and we wish him the best. And as
I texted him earlier today, I said, oh, you knew
this all long. He said, I couldn't scoop myself. So
best of luck to Rick Bosic. Chuck Culpepper another great writer.
Next six thirty WLAP Welcome back to the Big Blue,

(18:34):
and sider joining us now is a longtime friend of
the show. He is a documentary narrator for an award
winning documentary, but probably best known as a sports writer.
He is Chuck Culpepper of the Washington Post, formerly The
Hero Leader and helped us narrate the special we did
on the ninety eight Championship team, and is a world

(18:55):
traveler himself. Chuck, how are you? How's your passport?

Speaker 4 (19:00):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (19:00):
I would say the pages have been a little too
blank for me of late. Oh really need a few stamps.
You know, not everybody gives those stamps anymore. They just
wave you on through.

Speaker 6 (19:12):
But but I.

Speaker 5 (19:13):
Would say, yeah, I would say I'm kind of aching
to go somewhere.

Speaker 6 (19:16):
I don't know where or when.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
I have a friend that you really ought to medium.
He's a new York City Police officer, intelligence officer, but
he's a huge UK fan living in NYC and his
goal is to visit every country in the world. You
guys could could have some interesting conversations I'm getting Is
there anywhere in particular, uh, that you want to go
next or that that you haven't visited that you'd like

(19:41):
to see.

Speaker 5 (19:42):
I always try to keep a list of of say
three most most wished to see places you know at
any time, and then Vietnam is one. I've been to Cambodia,
but I haven't been, uh to Vietnam, which is next
to it. Probably Lows is next to that for a
long time eleven and was on the list and it

(20:03):
still is.

Speaker 7 (20:04):
But it's it's difficult now, you know it.

Speaker 5 (20:08):
And and I've got what else? Oh, I've got Peru
on the list, and I've got Tnicha on the list.

Speaker 6 (20:13):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Right, Well, And obviously work takes you around the world
and across the country. And one of the things that
you cover, of course college athletics and the house settlement
and is you know, kind of opened another doorway, another passage.
But it's just incredible of late with the nil to
transfer portaland all just how much of an uproar it

(20:38):
seems there is to college athletics. Now, do you fear
for college sports?

Speaker 5 (20:44):
I would say so far, I actually don't. I actually
I did four of the games in the football playoffs
last year and so and that just seemed, you know,
as full as ever and has watched is maybe a
little more watched. As I recall, you know, who, I

(21:04):
think about a lot if I would start, I think
about a lot. I think about Kentucky fans. Of course,
of course I was there for a while. I have
dear friends who are Kentucky fans. And but one of
the things to me that was always sort of a
hallmark of Kentucky fans was this idea that you would

(21:25):
get to know a player across his four years, and
that would be his or her four years. With the
women's game grown as it has so, and I always
found Kentucky fans really they enjoyed that almost as if
it were their kid in some ways, you know, And
they enjoyed seeing they know enough about the game, more

(21:47):
than enough about the game to see where the areas
of development are and to kind of.

Speaker 4 (21:53):
Thrill in those.

Speaker 5 (21:54):
And nobody anywhere really gets that that much. Anymore, right,
because it's just quickly up and gone, you know.

Speaker 7 (22:01):
And so you don't.

Speaker 5 (22:03):
I have one Kentucky fan I'm a good friend with,
and she said that there's one player who's in the NBA.
I forgot which, but she said, I actually don't have
any memories of him playing for Kentucky. It was just
one season and you know, and so she said, I
can't summon any memories of him playing. So yes, when
I think about how it might wither across the century,

(22:25):
maybe I think about that.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
And that's fair.

Speaker 5 (22:29):
Yeah, well fans will fans sour on the kind of
the the revolving door up.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yeah, I remember this isn't kind of an odd thing.
But when we were talking to Randolph Morris, who I
don't think stayed all four years, but he had been
there a couple of years and we were just kind
of informally talking to him, and he mentioned my name.
And this goes way back to the Tubby Smith there,
but I thought I was surprised that that guy knew

(22:58):
my name, because even then players were starting to come
and go. And now you know, I've all the NBA
kids that that that Tubby's are the tubby that Calipari's
got right now. I had spoken to each and every
one of those guys. I guarantee none of them, not
that it matters, but none of them have any idea
who I am or who Most of the guys are

(23:18):
going to be what they're and they might know our faces,
but and it's it's not that big a deal personally,
but it underscores what you just said. You know that
they they were it was just a way station, wasn't
it like seeing It was just a stop on the way.

Speaker 5 (23:33):
And now everywhere is kind of like that, Yeah, you know,
these remade rosters, And now I get kind of a
kick out of out of the idea that people build
rosters on the fly, and I don't kind of don't
know how they do it. And one way this has
struck me in the past week is this Ury State Baseball.

(23:54):
I've been studying that roster a lot of I think
it's there were I think ten players on it who
were on junior college rosters last year, ten different junior
college rosters, and then others who were on junior college
rosters and years before that or community college, and so
I'm kind of amazed that people can have this cohesion,

(24:16):
and as the Murray State players are saying, as they
got to Omaha this week, you know, like love and
trust that we have for each other, and that it's
all built rapidly. That kind of floors me in some way.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah. Well, as you know, Kentucky made the World Series
last year for the first time, with many many kids
who had come in through the portal. Although you probably
can remember back to when when you were a younger
sports writer, it was not that big a deal for
kids to transfer in and out win baseball because back
in the day you didn't have to sit for a

(24:49):
year when you transferred pre portal. But even when basketball
and football players had to sit for quite a while,
baseball players did not. And of course with eleven point seven, SCOTL.
Ship's kids came and went all the time. But now
with the new rules and a portal, it's probably doubled
the amount of movement. But Kentucky's team last year a

(25:10):
lot of those kids had come in Chuck the year before,
and they won a regional, fell short, lost to Paul
Skins and lsu Downe and Baton Rouge. But boy, a
team to stay together for two years like that, that's
kind of an anomaly. And yeah, so for them to
get to Omaha, yeah, it was a pleasant surprise, but

(25:33):
it was kind of unusual. But I don't know, maybe
it's exactly exactly. Maybe it's the resilience of young people.
What did you think of the way Mark Pope threw
a team together last year and and the way that it,
you know, went as far as it did.

Speaker 5 (25:50):
Well, I mean viewing it from a bit well from
a distance. And I did go into see him one
day last spring spring of twenty four, that had not
seen him in twenty eight years I think at that point,
and he said when I walked in, he said, I
thought you would I thought you would look older.

Speaker 6 (26:12):
So that was really.

Speaker 5 (26:13):
Nice, you know. So so I'm on board totally with
no But I thought it was the whole thing was
so enchanting from Afar because it was I was, as
was everyone else.

Speaker 4 (26:28):
Just absolutely floored by.

Speaker 5 (26:30):
The intro press conference, so to speak, which told a lot.
I think there was a lot both obvious and hidden
in that dumb in that day that after that Sunday.
But I thought that through the years, I mean it
just through the year.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
And chanting was a great word because Kentucky fans, they
were so ready for a change, and there was I thought, oh,
what was great, a great element to the story. There
was such skepticism about Mark Pope, even among fans. You
desperately wanted it to work. But of course, you know,

(27:11):
instant take people's out, terrible move and all that. Uh,
what was your reaction when you heard Kentucky had hired Pope.

Speaker 5 (27:19):
So I always am skeptical of the skepticism because I
I'll bring up a name, Dabo Sweeney. He gets hired
at Clemson mid season and you know, I think it's
eight October he takes over that job. I don't think
there's a soul in the entire nation. I think it

(27:40):
was interim. I think he had he was he had
to be, you know, kind of vetted across the half
of the season and re upped so and and you know,
look what went on there. And I just that's one
of the and there are more examples of that. I
think that whole idea that you want someone who's a
split ashy hire has a lot of dent dents in

(28:04):
the in the concept. It's it's just I mean maybe
even a lot of times you get someone based on
the splash who's who's really not at a good juncture
in their career to match with a certain place. And
I just think in this case, his match to Kentucky
worked in so very many ways, even though you know,

(28:26):
you could say his postseason coaching experience was light at
that time.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yeah, but a lot of that was about where he
was and who he was coaching, and yeah, he probably
should have gone further BYU. But I just always thought
that the two elements people questioned, well, Canny recruit, Well,
of course he's going to be a Kentucky, Sure he can't.
But number two, you know Kenny win in the postseason. Well,
there's one way to find out, and they certainly did

(28:52):
it this year. He is Chuck Culpepper of the Washington
Post will come back with more in just a minute
on the Big Blue Insider six thirty WLP. Welcome back.
We're talking with Chuck Culpepper of the Washington Post, formerly
with the election and herowd leader, and we were talking
about the hiring of Mark Pope, and we'll get back
to football in a minute. But you mentioned the word splashy,
and you're absolutely right. People love splashy hires. But I

(29:14):
think Kentucky might be the best example of what can
and cannot work in that Patino splashy Hire certainly worked,
Eddie Sutton splashy Hire disaster, Billy Gillespie splashy Hire disaster,
Tubby Smith not a splashy Hire. And at one point

(29:35):
Kentucky and wins and losses winning its program in the
country at that point. So it's all individual. You know,
you got to take everything on its own, merit, don't you.

Speaker 5 (29:47):
Yes, And it's match up in some way in timing. Yeah,
so much of its timing. You know, look at Joe
Gibbs in Washington, you know, three Super Bowls, but when
they brought him back later on, it's a whole different scenario,
whole different ownership. That was a crucial, whole different situation,
and it didn't work, you know, anywhere near as well.

(30:09):
So it's it's win. Does it happen in a lot
of cases, you know? And I just think, you know,
with so many places across the country to the first
press conference, which is kind of crazy. Okay, nobody's ever
wanted more than Kentucky did in April of twenty twenty four.

Speaker 7 (30:30):
But and it was great fun.

Speaker 5 (30:32):
But is it legit as a way of measuring what's
going to happen afterward. And I don't think so really.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
For Mark Pope to succeed, he said, we understand the assignment,
of course, that is win national titles. He's going to
have to do it in a way that his own
coach didn't have to do, and that's with a never
changing roster. And you know, you got the Florida Atlantics
the San Diego States making the final four. I think

(30:59):
it's a greater challenge now, even with everything Pope has
going for him in Kentucky than it was for Patino
coaching acumen aside, you know what I'm.

Speaker 5 (31:07):
Saying, Yeah, yeah, And I think one thing you've just
alluded to is that I that I wonder about all
the time, which is, Okay, we this volatility and this
ability of people to transferm people always say that us
like in football, for example, the SEC is just going

(31:28):
to raid everywhere that has you know, anybody right at
a lower level who's shown any promise, and that's going
to harm the lower levels. What I wonder though, is
is there a benefit to the lower levels also by
the fact that the that it is so volatile and
so nobody can really there. It is a role the

(31:50):
dice in a lot of ways about chemistry and cohesion
and and it maybe maybe it gives a little bit
of a chance to teams like that, you know. So,
I think the idea that we had that Final four
and twenty three, and the idea that we had TCU
in a National football title game right around that same
time is to me says, well, wait a minute, maybe

(32:13):
maybe there'll be benefiting the volatility for smaller schools as well.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
I agree, and I hope you're right. But I am
deathly afraid that the powers that'd be are going to
screw around. And I worry about March madness everything we
all know football drives a bus I worry so much,
of course, being at Kentucky and in Kentucky about March
Madness and Chuck. I'm just scared of that they're going
to screw that up and keep adding teams and adding teams,

(32:39):
and all they're doing is adding mediocre teams and mediocre games.
To me, what is one of, if not the greatest
two week sporting event in the world.

Speaker 5 (32:49):
Well, and it reminds me of the World Cup in
the sense that absolutely nobody seems to want this expansion. Yeah,
I've never met anybody who wants it, you know. And
it was the same with the World Cup and that
thing expanded. So yeah, you think you can grab more
money with it than you're going to do it. And yeah,

(33:11):
and I think what you're saying too about I mean,
there's a scenario out there where the big wigs will
just kind of squeeze everybody else out, even the smaller
versions of the big.

Speaker 8 (33:23):
Wigs will be squeezed.

Speaker 5 (33:24):
That's plausible too.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
When you started talking about how you worry about Kentucky fans,
I kind of flashed on what I always say is
I worry about the Eastern Kentucky's and the Murray States
and the Bellerman's and schools like that. And schools are
already dropping sports, and we're going to see more and
more of that, which means more opportunities for kids who
might have gone to school are going to go by
the wayside. And I blame me, my brethren, are those

(33:50):
of us in the media who sometimes forget that the
tail off and wags a dog, if you will, and
we think about kids going on to the pros when
let's two across the board, do that. You know, I
like covering baseball, I like covering I've done volleyball for
thirty years, you know, women's sports, and I feel I

(34:10):
fear that those are going to be falling by the
wayside all across the.

Speaker 5 (34:14):
Country, you know, yeah, And is there some kind of
a structure in all.

Speaker 8 (34:19):
Of that that, if it were.

Speaker 5 (34:21):
To erode, might really erode the fan bases because not
necessarily because they would they frequented those those games, but
because I don't know, I think about that in a
sense of what just happened to the PAC twelve in
recent years, you know, yeah, And you know, did that Okay?

(34:45):
Those teams are all well most most all went to
other conferences and they're still big, and they're still playing.
They still have opportunities, most of them. But did that
take something some kind of charm away from a whole
region of the country having it the league there? And

(35:06):
does that have like a slow erosion effect? I don't
see it so far. But nobody likes that either. But
that could be just those of us who've lived long
enough to know that the you know, the Rose Bowl
was something magical ever every New Year's Day, and so

(35:26):
but maybe people don't need that. I mean, that's what
the next generations will tell.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Yeah, but if they've never experienced, they don't know how
much they would enjoy it. Just a couple of minutes
with Chuck culpepper Man. I worked in the old Southwest
Conference back in the early eighties when half that league
was on probation, and that was a conference. It was
one of the greatest conference. I'm literally that was one
of the greatest conferences in sports history. But it pulled
itself to pieces because there were such backstabbers in that league.

(35:54):
And that's one thing, because of poor leadership among the presidents,
among the the commissioner's office. But that's one thing. You
got to credit the SEC. It may be too big now,
you know, growing like the incredible Hulk, you know, good
for the SEC, but not good for college sports in
a lot of ways. But at least they got a
commissioner who is trying to do what's best for those schools,

(36:18):
and that's all you can expect, right He works for
the SEC, not for the good greater good of college athletics,
right right.

Speaker 5 (36:26):
It kind of reminds me of the way sort of
people always were talking about, well, Roger Goodell works for
the owners you know, in the NFL, and and think
all that he's done to expand that whole whole different
thing because it's the only there are other leagues, but
it's the only major booming one, you know, And so
so you don't don't you don't have that same kind

(36:48):
of wondering if if what the SEC is doing is
healthy for all. So but but yeah, from a standpoint
of that dreaded word coming up your brand, then yes, yes, uh,
there's no question that he's he's grown. It's so funny
to me, you know, I go to these press boxes.

(37:09):
I'm trying to think of where I went last year Texas,
Texas A and M was one Bama Georgia at Tuscalue signs.
And now we all the writers and always surround the commissioner.
You know, if if the commissioner is available before the game,
we're all around him listening to everything that he says.
You know, I'm like and I always strike him as like, wow,
the commissioner is like Brad Pitt now or something, you know,

(37:35):
what a what A what a strange era?

Speaker 1 (37:39):
Yeah, Well, as I'll let you go. What's next for you?
You're you're a world traveler for work and for uh,
for pleasure. But what's next for you?

Speaker 5 (37:49):
I have been working on uh, some horse things and
and and I've been working all this week on on
learning about Murray State baseball. So it up next? Is that?
So that's that's quite a I think everybody who doesn't
have a rooting interest will be rooting for them or
maybe Coastal Carolina, but probably them.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
Yeah, Well, compared to Murray, Coastal is a fixture, and
so I can't do. And having worked at that at
Coastal Carolina's ballpark a couple of times, that's a modest
at least when I was last there. Modest, but not
nearly as modest as Murray stage. So and I've never
been there, but I've seen the pictures. Anyway. You can

(38:30):
follow Chuck of course in the pages of the Washington
Post online and on Twitter or ex if you will,
at Chuck culpeper one. Thanks so much, great talking to
you again.

Speaker 5 (38:40):
You two, Dick, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
By the way, if you listen to Tony Kornheiser's podcast
as I do, Chuck is a regular contributor there. He's
a tremendous sports writer and corneiser is a huge fan
of his as well. Coming up with our number two,
we'll talk to Van Hiles. We'll also check on the
week it was Hero Schools in play and more. What
six thirty you.

Speaker 9 (39:02):
Like, Pete.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
Welcome back to the Big Bull Insider Johnny us now
and they are only seventy eight days of football season,
so what a better time to speak to mister Van Hiles,
the former Kentucky offensive back. We talk a lot of
football with bands. He talks a lot of football with
everybody because of the great work he does on the
interweb as a coast of driving with styles and a

(41:13):
guy who you know you hear aimone with Tom leach Man.
Everybody wants your knowledge. How about that?

Speaker 6 (41:20):
I actually thought it was gonna talk track and fields.
We can we can understand.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
Because that's going on right now and your k's got
some all Americans. But before we get there, I got
to get your response and a reaction to the move
by the Big Dog. I mean, everybody's weighing in on it.
Is this something that will shake the foundation of the
uk U of L rivalry? What do you think?

Speaker 6 (41:46):
Yeah, it's it's football with me? Is like as a
fan and formal player, and as someone who can understand
what happens with sports and how people move on, it's
it's a bad move from a fan and a former player,
because how dare you go to that team up more?

(42:06):
But as a outside of that, people move all the time,
like this is not the first time it happened and
it won't be the last. Uh this this industry and
professional is so cut through that either you're hired to
get fired or either you move before something bad happened.
So I'm not shocked it happened. I am frustrated with

(42:32):
how some things that have gone has transpired in the
past couple of years. And I don't like what I've
heard from some comments that on the way out and
and those are things that I highly disliked with how
well those students are taken care of.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
Vents all right, be a little more specific comments by.

Speaker 6 (42:54):
Whom bye by vent with with some some statements about
our situation with the offense and goody sales like that's
your job, if that's your job, and that means to me,
you're backtracking on how significant your your your fingerprints were

(43:18):
on this program. If you're going to have excuses that
didn't need to be said, So there are some things
that I don't like that. I mean, when you're getting
paid probably the one of the highest salaries of a
position coach, because let's let's not forget he's a position
coach with some additional titles, but the the recruiting aspect

(43:40):
of in my opinion, I could be wrong because I
don't know how their their their process was that there
is a that is a coaching staff, entire coaching staff
thing is recruiting. It's not just a one guy thing.
So those are some things that that really rubbed me
the wrong way this morning. But you know, when you

(44:02):
leave and that that to me means that he didn't
totally leave on his own the court.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Interesting, Yeah, and it sounds like and the only thing
I had heard, uh is that with Kentucky looking more
and more at the portal, you know, maybe the work
he was doing as and you're right, he's in a
position coach but also a recruiting coordinator also associate head coach,
which I think you can't forget that this is your
number two guy going out the door, and not only

(44:33):
that going to the arts rival and they, as you
well know, uh, they recruit many of the same kids, man,
And that that to me is no pun intended, a
big big red flag.

Speaker 6 (44:48):
Yeah, it's well, and here's here's here's my thing. This
is where we're going to figure out some things, right
because I I like Vic because, like I said on
the locker last Wednesday, this was our press secretary. He
was the person who got out in front of everything
and and smooth the faithful out with with his charismatic aura,

(45:16):
I would say. So that was what he was really
great at. Now let's see what happened after this. Let's
see how the recruiting goes after this. Let's see if
we take a backstep since he's now have moved on,
is recruiting going to stay the same or is it
going to go the other way? If it's face the same,

(45:36):
then that means that it was the type of process
that I think it should be and potentially was. If
it isn't, that means now we lost our as some
people say, our best recruiter. So then if you lose
your best recruiter, things should not go upward. The trend
should be a downward trend. So it's gonna be interesting
what this this twenty six I guess this twenty twenty

(45:57):
sixth class is gonna be as we get to the season,
because I won't gonna say it that when everything happens,
commitment means nothing from these kids anymore. Back when I played,
when you committed, you pretty much stayed with that commitment.
Now it's to the fmal hour. Are those kids going
to stay with that that commitment already going to move

(46:17):
on to another team that came in the last minute
and offered them as coolcium.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
It's very true, but sort of the secondary recruiting if
you want to call it successful in some fronts because
of Vince Marrow maintaining relationships and the best example, it's
not the only example, but the best example was Wandale.
They didn't burn that bridge. He can seriously consider Kentucky

(46:44):
because events went to Nebraska, Events maintained the relationship with
him and his dad, and then when he needed to
come back toward his hometown, he lands in the UK
and has a huge season. So you can't discount that
kind of stuff with Vince Merrill, Like you say.

Speaker 6 (47:02):
Yeah, and I will comment out with I think that
was Vince's recruit, like that was his guy. So in
retrospect you can say, well, he left him somewhere else
and then go with Vince. The first it is the recruiting,
and that's why I say, like he's the press secretary.
That is a tough job to have and he did

(47:25):
a great job of that. And with that, sometimes the
perception is you are the guy and the only guy,
when then that discredits all the position coaches who have
to have a relationship with the recruit anywhere. I consistently
tell people that this in order for a guy to
come to your institution, he has to have at least

(47:48):
a decent relationship with the guy that he's going to
spend the most time with, which is his position coach.
So if you come into a visit and you and
Coach Collins don't jail, well you're probably not gonna come
to Kentucky.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (48:05):
So there is something that's a little bit more than
des Vince being a charismatic guy, and that's the only
reason why certain individual came to Entucky. Unless he is
your he is your recruiter. If that's not the case,
then I think that's more to it.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
Yeah, No, I understand that because if it's a guy
who recruited you, even if he's not your position coach.
He's the first guy who showed up at your school
or at your practice or you know, and maybe even
offered you the Scollie and uh and you don't forget
about that. We're talking uh to Van Hiuse, former Kentucky
defensive back and a football analyst, let's say, on social media.

(48:45):
I was talking to Tom Leach earlier this week and
we talked about the fact that it's going to be
interesting to see, now who becomes a good cop. And
you've done some coaching, you've been a player. You know,
every team does the good cop back of the head
coach has to be the bad cop oftentimes, So who
does the player turn to? And it's been Vince So

(49:07):
now I think that's gonna be really interesting, don't you.

Speaker 6 (49:10):
Yeah, now that is a good one. Now from what
I've I've heard, I don't know is that that could
potentially be Coach Washington and things like that, guy that
players will gravitate to. I think, to me, there's two
guys that I can see, and it'll be Coach Washington
and Coach Collins. I think those two guys from the

(49:32):
outside looking in. I could be completely wrong. Those guys
seem like they're younger guys. I think they might be
able to relate to the players more, and they seem
like they have. When I've seen coach Collins on the sideline,
he's not that yeller, that guy who's gonna get who's
gonna go after you. It seems like a guy who's

(49:53):
gonna talk to you and we're gonna get to a
solution via communication more than me. I guess the two
style of community case more than one stid of communication. Yeah,
so I would say patistic could be those two guys.
But you are right that I know with Lyn Bowden
that was his guy. I know with Barrion Brown that
was his guy. So yeah, you are kind of losing

(50:13):
that that guy where coach Susan can say, you know,
I'm going to get on this guy. Hey, just know
that he's going to come to you. This is what
I'm going to talk to him, and now you have
the information. Hopfully we can just move this thing over
after I've ripped him a new one, so to speak.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
He is Van Hiles. He is a football analyst. You
can take in his work at the Locker four one
one driving with Styles, follow him on Twitter at v
Style seventeen Back with moren a minute on six thirty
WLAP Welcome back. We're talking with Van Hiles. We've been
talking about Vince Merrow, and one of your pin tweets

(50:47):
is about U CASE football recruiting and the ability to
identify talent early and be one of the first to
give an athlete attention. Explain to our listeners it seems
like an obvious thing to say, but why that is
so important? Obviously got I said to seventeen year olds,
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (51:08):
Yeah, that Unfortunately, I think it's changing. But for me,
it's like I'll never forget when I was in high school,
the first team that came after me was Southern MISSISSPI
When and when they came after me, it was aggressive
and they were the first, and I always held that like, well, now,
why is everybody else coming after me when I think

(51:29):
I was pretty good the whole time? Yeah, And I
think that that tapped into a young kid's ego. It's
tapped into something like you have been with me since
they one and has never left. I think those teams
hold a high level of gratitude for young men. I
think it still does, but I think there are some
kids now that have a brand on the front of

(51:52):
the jersey that can always come in the last minute.
Still you from someone who has been with you since
your junior or sophomore year. But that is a great
thing for a kid to know that someone saw something
in me before somebody everybody else did. So they saw
the talent. And not only did they see the talent,
they were aggressive with their if they pursuit of me

(52:13):
and my talents. And also they treated me well and
they stayed in contact. So yes, that that can be
a big thing. I think back in those days we
identify guys real early and then a great and did
a great job of having those guys understand that you
are a high priority for us and it's not going
to take anybody to knock you off of that that

(52:33):
this has been a high priority of us, because we're
talking to you now. And I think we did get
a couple of players here because of that ability to
identify talents.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
But as you've pointed out a couple of minutes ago,
things would change so much dramatically cheap among them the
nil you know, I could I could be on you
when you're a freshman and make that acquaintance and develop
a relationship and three and a half years later, you
want to come to Kentucky or wherever. But and here
comes brand X with twice the amount of money. You know,

(53:04):
and I know the guardrails are starting to fall into place,
but that that's just got a drive recruiters nuts. I
would think, oh, for.

Speaker 6 (53:12):
Sure, when you have invested so much time, and unfortunately
I don't have the boosters or the ability to offer you.
I don't know the numbers were true, but let's just
say a million dollars. All I can offer you is
one hundred and fifty so and honestly, as a kid,
how can how can I say no to kind of

(53:32):
in your estimation at seventeen eighteen life changing money? My
parents probably hasn't made a million dollars in their entire
career of whatever their job is. For me, to make
it in a matter of a few months is something
that I could not pass up. And I would understand
kids doing that, But that also leads to the thing
as a parent that million dollars is great at the moment,

(53:55):
but it might not be great for four years because
it is an easy situation of of that team taking
some of that money back and now you have to
go in the transfer for Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
It's a mess right now, but perhaps this new there's
a commissioner essentially, you know the CSC. I don't know
how how much attention first of all you paid to it. Secondly,
if you're optimistic at all, But something's better than nothing
in terms of guardrails.

Speaker 4 (54:20):
Right, Yeah.

Speaker 6 (54:22):
I think I like it for football, and I think
it can't add some element of restricting of a restrictive
plate like and drive it. But the only thing I
don't dislike is it's honestly, it's going to hurt the

(54:42):
smaller programs and as a as I talked about with
first guy, I'm a track guy, and it's going to greatly,
immensely hurt track, which is to me, is the best
sport because it's the easiest sport and cheap the sport
to get into. So I think it's great for football
and basketball and even baseball because I had friends who

(55:05):
play baseball who couldn't get a full scholarship. About time
that those guys get full scholarships on the entire team.
But then there's the auxiliary sports that are really going
to get hit, and that's something that that that.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
I don't like, no, I agree with you, and they're
going to go away. They are going to be programs
and it's already happening, you know. So well, speaking of track,
as promised, we will talk about it. UK's got some
individuals competing in Eugene, Oregon. Have you ever been out
of that facility?

Speaker 6 (55:34):
I have not, and I had the chance I was
working in Portland. I was like, no, I'm too busy,
but yeah, I have never been to it, but I
heard it's like almost as possible to get there though.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Yeah, Eugene is not super close to Portland, but uh yeah,
it's just like why tennis is always at the University
of Georgia. The facility is tremendous. I've seen it on TV,
and man, do they love it out there, don't they?
The crowds they get. UK's got a freshman Janet jakimboy
A Memo who is an All second team All American.

(56:10):
Kentucky lost a great coach to the University of Texas
and then hired another great coach. You got to be
really proud of your alma mater for the track program.

Speaker 6 (56:21):
Yeah, and here and quite honestly, I know people don't
understand and the track program was really good when I
was there. It was just wasn't given the attention that
it should have been. Well, we we had two Olympians
on the team when I was there, so it is
great to see it still progressed. I am elated that
they improved the facilities because our indoor track was horrible.

(56:45):
And people want to say the football indoor was was bad,
but that track around the indoor was worse than a
football field, and I am glad that they finally moved
it out there. And I'm gonna say some crazy I'm
glad they moved it all there, and not because the
foot ball, because quite honestly, the football team had enough
room to practice. I know they're going to complain about
the angels, the kimono. The track was atrocious. There was

(57:08):
no loan jump pit, there's no provall pit. It was
one of the worst in the conference in the half
of brand new facility. I am he made it for
I'm glad that they're getting the to just do that.
They finally the there.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Well, somebody told me back when I was still working TV,
and I don't think I ever got a chance to
do the story. But UK had a pole vaulter and
that was a big deal. Hey, we got a pole vaulter. Now,
I didn't even know that there was a dearth of polevulters,
which to me growing up, I used to go to
the Mason Dixon Games and I man, I love that stuff,
and the pole vaulters were the people, not the sprinters.

(57:44):
But it was the pole vaulters that captured my imagine.
I couldn't imagine flying like that and putting your trust,
you know, and you're running as hard as you can
and you jam that poll into that pit and next
thing you know, you're fifteen sixteen or higher feet off
the ground. But no, now have you been in a
new indoor facility yet.

Speaker 6 (58:05):
I have not been in it, but I know people
who out there and they say it's amazing.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
You got to come back next time you come up
for football. Make yourself a little extra time, because don't
bring a tear to your eye. Coach, I'm telling you.

Speaker 6 (58:20):
Okay, I'll do that. I'm because it was long overdue.
I just as a track guy, Yeah, it was long
over you for a team of that caliber, and this
in the best conference, so yeah, it was. It was.
It was all way over there, all right, you're.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
Also a grill master. I mentioned this. What's on the
grill coming up anytime soon? Anything good, anything challenging.

Speaker 6 (58:43):
No, this is this is something that everyone has to do,
and I have. I can't believe I've done it. I
can't believe I'm saying it is. My wife has been
begging me to real steak bites, which is just huge,
the steak up and grill it that way, and I
was like, now, I'm not gonna do I'm not gonna
do it. I mean years and because I'm a traditionalist,

(59:07):
eat eat a full steak, like come on, well, because
she's not a heavy eater, and she felt like sometimes
she's wasting the steak. So you cube it up. And
the best thing about cubing it up is you get
the seasoning and the smoke on all six That's that's

(59:31):
the best thing. So now, honestly, I'm cubing up almost
everything because I'm going overboard it because it is. It
is so great. So that's what I'm I'm really doing.
I'm I'm cubing up chicken or the whole, the whole deal.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
I'm gonna have to look into that and ribs.

Speaker 6 (59:51):
Too, and you do individual ribs. It'll change your life.
And that's crazy for me to say because I'm a
big rib guy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Changing grilling from V Style seventeen And if you go
to his Twitter page, you'll see a nice little picture
of him and his family, but the background picture is
what three or four different types of meat.

Speaker 6 (01:00:14):
Yeah, I forgot it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
It's so great. Uh, you tried to talk me through
grilling fish. Next time we talk, I'm gonna have you
do that. Manna. Have you talked to me again about that?
Because I just don't have the courage to do it.
But but I think you can get me through that.
But we are out of time. V Style seventeen on Twitter.
Thank you so much. Great as always, talking.

Speaker 6 (01:00:35):
To you anytime.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
You know that up next and look back at an
eventful week in sports here on six thirty w LAP.

Speaker 10 (01:00:50):
That was the week over, let it go, that was
the week. It's not it way up.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
That Welcome back to the Big Blue Insider, and yeah,
it was quite a week. It has been not over yet.
I don't know what else could happen between now and
the end of the week, but you never can be sure.
But in terms of sports, yeah, it was a big deal.
We reacted to the house settlement earlier this week, but
then anything that happened, Aaron Rodgers signed with the Steelers,

(01:01:22):
anything in terms of the Big Blue Nation that might
have happened, including Otega Alway coming back and talking to
the media along with Brandon Garrison. So we got a
little taste live and in person of UK basketball, but
the Vince Merrow story superseded everything that was a shocker,
and we were thinking back on UK football stories and basically,

(01:01:46):
unless you're talking about, you know, a huge upset of
a game or a coach being fired, maybe not so
much a coach being hired, because that's an inevitability and
generally those things leak out before the actual announcement is made,
so it's not a shocker like that. You know, I've
had the misfortunate of having to cover some NCAA investigation

(01:02:10):
stuff and when they announce penalties and things like that.
Those are the big shocking, you know, head turning stories
when it comes to covering a programmer a sport. But
Vince Merrill leaving and not just leaving, but going to Louisville,
and as you know, he has flirted with other jobs
in the past. Michigan Michigan State. Louisville came up a

(01:02:32):
year or two ago when brom got there, and to
be honest with you, Vince himself was the kind of
guy who would just kind of let slip or a
friend or an Asian or somebody, let's slip. And that's
common business practice. To keep your name in the headlines.
Helps you make a little more money. And he was
paid well by Mark Stoops and Mitch Barnhardt. But boom,

(01:02:57):
he's gone. And not just gone, which I thought would happen,
but to Louisville and not just recruiting. And yeah, I
know he's the GM, but he will be a recruiter
even if he cannot go off campus and make in
home visits. And he's valuable there when they get the
campus when a recruit goes in to talk to the

(01:03:19):
GM about nil and more, well, at Louisville, it's going
to be Vince Merrill. And he's proven that he's one
of the best in the country and he has helped
Mark Stoops. Yeah, I know they've struggled of late build
a solid football program in Kentucky. And one more time,

(01:03:40):
I will say to those of you on the interweb
who are slinging barbs. Now at Meryl, that's fine. I
know that he's gone to the dark side and he
has gone to the arch rival. You're mad at him,
But don't say that he did a poor job recruiting here.
I've seen that in a couple of Yeah, we don't

(01:04:01):
need the recruits you're bringing in. Come on, now, look
at the body of work. Maybe of late, nobody has
really had a lot of success recruiting at Kentucky if
you're looking at the one loss record, but look back
through the years. But look back through the years and
you will see a lot of success thanks to Vince Merriw.

(01:04:23):
So as we look back through the week. Yeah, I
talked with a voice Tom Leach earlier this week about
the shocking story.

Speaker 7 (01:04:31):
Yeah, surprise, it's not stunned, just because you know, the
Vince and U of L talk had popped up once
or twice before. So that always, when you you know,
when that happens, makes you think, well, there's you know,
something there on one side or the other. And the
fact that it happened in Jews kind of an odd timing,

(01:04:55):
although you know that always is you know, we always
don't think about these things. There's a business this element
to this. Some you know, contracts end at the end
of June on a coaching contracts, it's the fiscal year.
So maybe that's you know why this is happening at
this time to make the hire for the next you
know contract wave that would start on July first, So

(01:05:17):
could well be related to to that. But that's just
you know, the business part of it. The fact that
he's actually leading their story obviously, and yeah, it's yeah,
definitely a surprise. You know, it's on one hand, surprising
that it's.

Speaker 6 (01:05:38):
Going to the rival.

Speaker 7 (01:05:39):
On the other hand, I think Vince is gonna put
down some roots here in Kentucky, Lexington specifically, up until
this point married a girl from here in Lexington, So
you know, they may well, you know, have if he
was ready to move on for whatever reason. The fact
that he could do it still stay in the state

(01:06:01):
they have, you know, played a part in it too.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
And indeed that is something that was important to Vince Merrow,
according to the statement released Thursday through u of L
was he did want to remain in the state of Kentucky.
One of the other people I talked to about the
big Vince Merrow story was Keith Farmer from w l
e X and BBN tonight.

Speaker 4 (01:06:24):
It felt like we had passed all that you said.
Like you said, there have been head coaching jobs, There
have been tithes in jobs, you know, different conferences, different schools,
and it just felt like one of those that we
were past that, and that he was just going to
ride ride it out with stoops. And so I was
a little bit shocked this time because I didn't I
just didn't feel like it was ever going to happen.

(01:06:46):
So hard to hear it and hopefully it doesn't have
as big an impact as we think it could on
the Kentucky program, because you know, he he really brought
a lot of great players in and we'll do Educty
goes from here.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
I was the same way as came in. I thought that,
you know, Vince going somewhere else, at least for now,
was over and done with the timing is what's so
hard hitting in this story. I also talked to came In,
who was a Steelers fan, about Aaron Rodgers signing. I
talked to Jeff Drummond about that as well, Jeff with

(01:07:22):
Cats Illustrated, and I talked also with Jay Drumm about
the fact that up on their site right now, they've
got a round table discussion as they prep for the
upcoming college football season about the challenge facing and these
are the guys with the Rivals Network who cover UK
the challenge is facing Mark Stoops and his staff.

Speaker 11 (01:07:44):
He got to thinking about what what some of the
big questions will be going into this season. I thought
this would be interesting because typically your first game as
an afterthought in a lot of ways, and you're supposed
to win that game no matter you know who it
is in most seasons. But I think there's a little.

Speaker 8 (01:08:05):
Bit of of.

Speaker 11 (01:08:08):
You know, extra weight to this one, not only in
the fact that Toledo is a really good, solid MAC
program capable of coming into Mexican and winning that game,
but I think the Cats has to look good in
that one too to kind of get the fan base,

(01:08:29):
you know, back motivating for the rest of the season
because right now the I don't know about the people
that you have to in general, but it's it's ominous
with everybody I talked about Kentucky football. It's just the
optimism is that it's low points and probably you know,
going into that year for uh with with Mark Steeps

(01:08:50):
when a lot of people thought that Kentucky might need
to start another coaching search, and you know with what
they wound up with though after that was I think
eight consecutive trips to the postseason with that one. It's
it struged me is a little odd that things have

(01:09:12):
turned so quickly and and far, you know, as far
as the public opinion of Mark Stoops goes. But you know,
last year obviously a bad season. I don't think the
two years before you would consider bad, but there was
definitely the start of a little bit of a downward trend.

(01:09:35):
And when you combine that with the you know, the
infamous pony up comment and the Texas A and M situation,
I think that just a lot of people have kind
of made up their mind that this is the end
of the road. And you know, I don't, I don't
necessarily I think that's the case, but it's going to

(01:09:59):
be hard to win people.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
By Jeff Drumming accuts illustrated and he ain't wrong there.
Toledo is a good MAC team, at least it was
last year. Beat Mississippi State in Starkfield, beat Pittsburgh, and
Mac teams through the years have come in here and
been a real pain in the neck. Have come in
here and won over Kentucky. So yeah, part of that
roundtable discussion was you got to win that opener. You

(01:10:23):
got to be as good as you can be on
the first day, right. We talked with Rick Bosicch of
WDRB dot com early in the week before we knew
about Vince Merrow about the house settlement and how it
might affect college sports in general, and as Rick pointed out,
it's going to take a while to figure that out
because at this juncture, really nobody knows for sure.

Speaker 8 (01:10:46):
No, I don't think any of us really have any idea,
and even some administrators that I've talked to don't have
any idea. I think we're going to see more separation
from the you know, the top level schools. Yeah, like
the schools in the SEC, in the Big Ten, especially
from the rest of college sports. I worry about mid majors,

(01:11:07):
I worry about low majors. I worry about you know,
the non revenue sports yea, and what's going to happen
to them. We've heard all the stories that at different
schools where they'll be eventually moved to club club sports
status because all the resources have to be poured into
the sports that generate revenue.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
Rick Mozic of Fox forty one WDRB over in Louisville.
We also talked with Colby Wilson, sports reporter and anchor
at Fox fifty six here in Lexington. We just watched
the Belmont Steakes on Fox Sports, not on NBC, but
on Fox, and I talked to Colby, who played college

(01:11:47):
soccer in Portland, but as from grew up in the
LA area or dad's a football coach. But I talked
to her about as so many youngsters have done, moving
in no matter what the medium, to cover horse race,
seeing in Kentucky and what that was like for her,
especially covering the Kentucky Derby.

Speaker 12 (01:12:05):
You know, it's funny because coming from the West coast,
you everyone knows about the Kentucky Derby, just because it's
the Kentucky Derby, but no one knows what goes into it,
the behind the scenes. You don't know owners or trainers
or you know, you don't know any of the exes
and oh's detailed stuff. So like you said, I knew
absolutely nothing coming to Kentucky. All I knew is you
better get caught up pretty fast because it's horse racing

(01:12:28):
country here. But I will say, I mean, going on
my I just covered my second derby is absolutely incredible.
Everyone asked me like, how is it. Everyone I talked
to They're like, it's on my bucket list, but you really,
I can't even put into words.

Speaker 11 (01:12:39):
What it's like.

Speaker 12 (01:12:40):
I'm just like you have to come. But as a journalist,
I mean, it's been super fun and I feel like
just even in the morning times going out to the barns,
you get to know these trainers, You get to know
familiar faces, and then you really like become attached in
a way a little bit like I U the only
trainer I talked to ahead of this derby was billmont
ah and so, and then last year the only trainer

(01:13:04):
I talked to was Kenny McNee. So for me, it's
been like it's been like a two out of two
over here with me. So it's been super fun, but
I've absolutely enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
It was indeed a big week and we're back with heroes,
fools and flakes in just a minute here on six
thirty w LAP.

Speaker 9 (01:13:18):
That was the week No let it Go.

Speaker 10 (01:13:23):
That was the week that was It's not it way
up fluck and he's playing there.

Speaker 9 (01:13:29):
All.

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
Welcome back to the Big Moon Insider, final segment of
our program. Time only for Heroes, fools and flakes and
our heroes tonight, Yes, plural multiple, because the College World
Series begins tonight in Omaha. We've talked about it all week.
A lot of you went there last year to follow
the Wildcats, and Kentucky was a great feel good story
last year, making its first appearance under Nick Bneiona and

(01:13:53):
a lot of kids who had been good players elsewhere
but transferred to Kentucky and became part of great team. Oh,
it's a great time right now in the state of
Kentucky because Murray State is there and is the Cinderella story.
Everybody's favorite Cinderella right now when it comes to the
College World. Seriously, everybody has learned the story of Murray

(01:14:16):
State baseball playing in an eight hundred seat stadium that
up until ten years ago did not have grand stand seating.
The head coach, Dan Skirka, mows the grass, does the groundkeeping.
I didn't know this until recently, but Johnny Reagan Field,
named after the long time successful head coach, did not

(01:14:37):
even have a padded outfield wall until less than a
decade ago. And if you've seen the pictures, there are
all kinds of rips and gashes in the padding because
again before to get it fixed. So everybody's rooting for
the Racers right now. And remember this name, Jonathan Hogart
two home runs two and the game that sent Murray

(01:14:58):
State past Duke in the Durham Super Regional into the
World Series had one early in the game that had
another one that put the Racers up five to four.
It was your game winner. Stands in a tie for
first place in program history with twenty two round trippers
on the year. And keep in mind that that ballpark

(01:15:23):
in Omah, Charles Schwab Stadium, all flies out of there.
It's not like Hoover. It's not like the Hoover met
where you really got to crank it to hit it out. No,
all carries depends on the win that gets Windy over
there in Omaha. But don't be surprised if he breaks
that record with one or more home runs in this tournament.

(01:15:44):
Hogart had hits in every postseason game and at least
two home runs in every contest but one. Six home
runs in postseason plays, So best the luck to the
Racers also Coastal Carolina, but that's not really an underdog program.
They've been. I think this is their ninth trip to

(01:16:05):
the World Series and they've won twenty three straight. The
Chanta clears one of the great nicknames in all the
college sports. They're on a twenty three game winning streak.
That's the longest streak any team is carried into the
College World Series since nineteen ninety nine. They're back in
Omhof for the first time since they won it all

(01:16:27):
in twenty sixteen. Are fool tonight, and I say this
with respective with love. Dick by Tal he is resigned
with the ESPN. Good for you. I'm not a huge fan,
but anybody who raises that kind of money and spends
that kind of energy on childhood cancers is a hero
in my book. But foolish. When he says the Knicks

(01:16:49):
should rehire Tom Thibodeau, it's not a bad idea because, yeah,
the coaching search, as he says, has been embarrassing. People
keep turning them down. No, you cannot talk to our Coe.
The bulls won't let him talk to Billy Donovan, and
that the Mavericks don't want to to talk to Jason Kidd.
If VI Taw believes they should rehire them, that's not

(01:17:10):
going to happen. And you're a fool if you believe
it will, because the Knicks aren't going to admit they
were wrong. But keep in mind, Dick by Tale, with
one exception that I know of, has never believed the
coaches or any coach has ever done anything wrong, even
coaches that have been caught red handed doing bad things.

(01:17:31):
But there was that one exception, I will tell you,
and that was way back in nineteen eighty nine when
Eddie Sutton in the UK program were in a deep,
deep trouble and Dick by Tale publicly stated Edie should
resign in order to prevent any more damage to the
Proud Kentucky program. And that week, on one of his

(01:17:56):
nightly appearances on WKYT TV, Kill Litford remember Kaywood's comments.
They ran every night at five forty five, but a
ninety second commentary, and Kwood took Dick five talent the task.
When I was stunned at the end of the commentary,
he looked right at the camera and said, go to hell, Dick.

(01:18:19):
I was shocked, but ironically enough, Edie sudden. Not long
after that did resign because he said he didn't want
to hurt the program anymore. Our flake tonight, This is easy,
Vince Merrill, just a flaky situation, wouldn't you say? There
are so many questions, so much speculation though about why

(01:18:40):
he left. Was he deserting a sinking ship? Did Stoops
and Merrill have a falling out? You know? Are they
changing the direction of UK football and minimizing the role
that had been occupied by Vince Merrill? Who knows what?
And Mark Story wrote about this people going from UK
to UL I haven't been that many. Marvin Stones in

(01:19:02):
at basketball player, had one good game at U of
L with all due respect, and I was against Kentucky.
But you know, people don't realize this, and I'm getting
off track here, but Tubby Smith it was done with Marvin.
He was so frustrated. And at one point Marvin told
Tubby I'm going to transfer to Auburn, be closer to home,

(01:19:23):
and Tubby said that's fine, good luck. Marvin's mother stepped
in and said, no, He's staying in Kentucky. So it
doesn't happen very often. But this is the highest of
the high profiles. With Vince Merrill leaving really flaky. If
you ask me, I'll do it. Thanks so much to
my guest Chuck Culpepper and the Van Hiles. That's a
good night from the garage in Lexington. I believe.

Speaker 13 (01:19:46):
Any quality equality for everyone, no matter how stupid they are.

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
Or how much better I am than they are.

Speaker 13 (01:20:01):
Any such such.

Speaker 9 (01:20:19):
Tact tact.

Speaker 13 (01:20:42):
The snack, change tack, and then I think the back tack.

(01:21:29):
Then don don don don do