2025-06-16 - BBI - Big Blue Insider with Dick Gabriel

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Big Blue Insider. Dick Gabrielle with you
on a Monday following Father's Day. I hope you had
a great day. Hope you had a great weekend, especially
you single moms out there. People forget about the single
moms on Father's Day, but I had one myself, a
single mom, so anyhow, I hope you had a good one.
I got a chance to get with family because my
wonderful daughter's birthday was yesterday as well, so we had

(00:22):
a gathering on Saturday of the family, the granddaughters. We
had a good time, and of course being Father's Day weekend,
we got a chance to watch a little bit of
the golf. I don't sit through the entire tournament. I'm
a golf fan when it comes to the majors, but
I don't watch every stroke of every tournament. But I
did watch JJ spawn when the US opened at Oakmont

(00:44):
Up in Pennsylvania. Typical US Open course, really difficult, And
I heard an interview with Steve Sands at a golf
channel prior to the tournament where he said that the
greens for the tournament probably weren't as difficul as they
are on a given week but they still look pretty
tough to me. And you had in the rain, which

(01:06):
became pouring rain at one point, So what a challenge,
and what a great finish by JJ spawn a huge
birdie putt. He only needed a two putt, but he
drained one and I think was sixty four and a
half sixty four, Yeah, sixty four and a half feet
that rolled in there, And it was great. It was
great TV, It was great drama. Then we come to

(01:29):
find out that this gentleman had been up at three
am because he had to go to the pharmacy to
the store to get something for his daughter who had
been throwing up. So he had a sick little girl
and still came back and shook it all out of
his head and rally. He wasn't the leader going into

(01:50):
the last round, but he won the US Open, So
I hope that was fun. Coming up tonight, we're going
to talk to Jim Deopolis, who's a longtime friend and
he's been on the show before, but now he is
an inductee into the Kentucky Pro Football Hall of Fame,
so he will go in alongside former Wildcat Danny Trevathan

(02:12):
among others. Coming up at the end of this month.
So Jim is a friend from way back when he
was a grad student at UK. I was a referee,
umpire official in the Inner Murals program and Jim was
my boss. He did our scheduling and things like that.

(02:33):
And from there he went on to be a high
school referee, a college ref in the OVC, at the
SEC and the National Football League, and even worked a
Super Bowl. So now going into the Kentucky Pro Football
Hall of Fame. And he's always been at these events.
And I talked to somebody last year, so why isn't
Jim Dappolis in the next thing? You know, I'm not

(02:55):
saying because I said anything, but he certainly deserves it.
Going in going to talk to John Hale of the
Arow Leader about UK football, if it's merrow moving, how
they're putting this team together these days, and we'll also
talk football and UK women's basketball with Christy Thomas. Shankers
are UK Radio Network pregame coverage along with Jeremy Jarman

(03:18):
and Logan Stenberg. Season is right on top of it
doesn't feel like it, but trust me, it is. It
gets the summer gets shorter every year. I think we
know this coming up next, we're going to talk about
the College World Series. I know the Wildcats are not
in it, although the state of Kentucky well represented with
two teams in Omaha this year, Murray State and the

(03:38):
University of Louisville. And I watched a lot of that
over the last few days, and yesterday marked a great
anniversary for UK baseball. We're going to relive that coming back.
But I got to tell you, it's like anything when
you get a chance to go to an event like
the College World Series. Many of you have been to
NC tournaments, to final fours, bowl games. They're fun and

(04:03):
you want to go back. And yeah, I know I'm
working these events, but it's still fun, and especially if
it's for the first time, like the College World Series
was for all of us last year. So we'll talk
about that, we'll talk about some of the things that
have gone on already in Omaha. But it's one of
the great sporting events and I hope for all of
our sakes, the program, the coach, the players, the fans

(04:25):
of media, we get a chance to do it again.
Say with us here on the Big bluon sider on
six thirty WLAP. Welcome back to the big bluon Sider
coming up in just a few minutes. Jim Deopolis, former
NFL referee. He's a UK grad. When I was there,
he was in grad school and he ran the officials

(04:47):
for the intermural program. So I worked for Jim. How
little did I know he would go on to work
a Super Bowl as an NFL referee. He is going
into the Kentucky Pro Football Hall of Fame coming up
at the end of the month. So we'll talk to
the ref in just a few minutes. But I did
want to talk, of course about the College World Series,
and I hope you had a great Father's Day yesterday.

(05:09):
And Darren Hendrick posted are the radio voice of the
baseball Wildcats, posted on social media reminding us that yesterday,
a year ago, June fifteenth, a year ago, was the
day Kentucky pulled off one of the great comebacks of
last year's College World Series. Got a home run in

(05:29):
the not bottom of the ninth inning and then a
home run in the bottom of the tenth inning by
Mitchell Daily to cap that come from behind when against
North Carolina State. Here's a swinging of dribe today left
Becos Nixon looking up.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Daily wadens Daily Wins It Daily Wins It.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
Kentucky defeats at C State five to four on a
walk off home run five Mitchell.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
Daily biggest home run in the history of the program.
And it also was a game that included a two
run homer by Nolan McCarthy, And I was watching some
highlights somebody put up on social media as well from
that game, and I had forgotten forgive me. But Kentucky
had an outfielder named Ty Krittenberger last year. He had

(06:18):
transferred in from Western Kentucky, played some early in the
year and then kind of lost the starting job to
Nolan McCarthy, became a pinch hitter, defensive specialist, and man
they needed him because he made a huge catch, a diving,
tumbling catch late in the game in centerfield to help
preserve that win. And because he didn't get to play

(06:40):
a lot, we didn't have much chance to talk about
Krittenberger's background in the game notes. There were two Kentucky
players last year on the roster who had relatives grandfathers. Well,
I think one was a great grandfather. But Ty's grandfather
was a well known general in the United States Army

(07:00):
and was critical in World War Two, and in fact,
I went back and re read his history and at
one point General Dwight D. Eisenhower, the supreme Allied Commander
for the impending Allied invasion of Normandy in nineteen forty four,

(07:20):
selected Krittenberger, the UK centerfielder's grandfather, as one of three
core commanders for the invasion. But Lieutenant General Omar Bradley,
who was selected later as the first Army commander by
IKE for the D Day invasion, replaced all three of

(07:41):
the core commanders. Looking for it says here different differing
temperaments and commanders who had more combat experience, but still
Krittenberger if you just google him, go to wiki. He
had an incredible career and again one of his offspring

(08:01):
went on to play centerfield for the Wildcats, a team
that played in the College World Series. Yesterday's games were crazy.
They usually are crazy, good, crazy, weird. You've got Louisville
down to Arizona three to one going into the late innings.
They make it three to two, and then they explode

(08:22):
for six runs in the eighth inning to the Cardinals,
and they beat Arizona eight to three. Arizona started that
inning with an error routine ground ball to short and
they brought in their great relievers and Louisville just started
hitting the ball. An Arizona outfielder makes a mistake with
nobody out, and a Louisville kid hits a sinking line drive.

(08:43):
He tries to make a circus catch and misses it,
and it goes and stead as a single for a triple,
which came back to haunt Arizona. Obviously, there was an
overthrow at first base. The catcher backs it up, snags
the baseball, tries to throw it back towards second base.
The ball popped out of his hand and landed behind him,

(09:06):
and the kid didn't even know it. So meanwhile, the
Louisville base runners are circling the bag and this kid
finally realizes they yell at him and the ball is
sitting behind you. It's not in the middle of the infit.
It was just bizarre. But what U of l fans
watching at home might remember is during the break between
the six and seventh innings, ESPN's cameras caught Louisville coach

(09:31):
of Dan McDonald getting into his team. I mean, and
if if you like coaches that yell at players, you
had to like this. It went on for quite a while.
Here's here's about fifteen seconds of it.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
Hardly you get a bath ball in, right, you better
showing out when the ball is going in, Fayed, We're
not waiting coming out.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
I bring this up because I like Dan McDonald. I
know UK fans are never going to cheer for U
L but I got to tell you this is a
good guy. He's a heck of a coach. But Doug
Flynn and I talked to opposing coaches before games whenever
we do broadcasts, and it's always just a real joy
to talk to him. He is a real gentleman. He's

(10:19):
a great coach, and he and Doug are very close.
Doug goes and speaks to the Louisville team every now
and then, you know, not necessarily just as an FCA speaker,
but as a guy a former big leaguer, you know,
just so he see. There's the same thing with UK players.
But I really enjoy always talking to Damn McDonald. I
respect what he's done at Louisville, and yeah, this was

(10:43):
And by the way, don't think for a mint and
Nick Manjeones doesn't do that. I've never seen him do
it in the middle of a game. I'm sure he has.
He generally waits till the game's over before he really
gets into his team. But it was just interesting that
it happened on this stage. You know, the College World
Series National TV is teamed down, et cetera, et cetera.

(11:04):
So that was a really interesting moment, and, like I said,
a bizarre game as Louisville comes back still in the
loser's bracket and has to fight its way out of that.
Cardinals next play Oregon State tomorrow at two o'clock. Today's games,
there's one going on right now because of course we
pre record. My apologies, I cannot tell you what's going

(11:25):
on right now between Arkansas and Murray State, but I
will tell you this. One of the great moments came
after Murray State's loss to UCLA. Racers fell behind, made
it a game late, they fall six to four on Saturday,

(11:45):
and in the interview room after a young man named
Dustin Mercer, who is a right fielder, and Murray's five
to four win over Kentucky back in March, Mercer had
an RBI single, but he was asked by a reporter
about the fact that He's sitting up on stage at

(12:07):
the podium behind the mix with a smile on his face,
and was always seemed to be smiling even though his
team lost, and he gave a great answer.

Speaker 4 (12:16):
I thought, you keep smiling.

Speaker 5 (12:18):
I know, obviously the results not what you wanted, but
just kind of talk about, you know.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
The attitude kind of going into obviously Monday, which is
the opportunity to be playing here.

Speaker 5 (12:28):
I mean, obviously it's baseball heaven here. I was talking
about it yesterday, Like I walked around. I've never felt
famous before until I got here. Those kids don't care
whether I'm going to the big leagues or I'm done
playing in two weeks. They just wanted to talk to me,
and I think that's a really awesome experience. So I
know he lost and that's things he really does, but
keeping that kind of mental attitude of those kids are

(12:50):
here to watch us, and I mean that's super cool.
I mean, Skirk's son, he just loves watching us playball
and they look up to us, And yeah, about the smiling,
I'm done playing baseball in two weeks, no matter what.
So I'm just trying to keep that on my face
and enjoy the ride.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
I just thought that was great, And I guarantee you
he wasn't saying I were just glad to be here,
because they are, but that's not what they want. They
played well in that UCLA game. He just gave up
some runs early and fought back and had the time
run to play more than once, but just couldn't quite
pull it off. So they're playing it. They may be
done by now, but just a great answer by that kid.

(13:30):
And what great for me watching the College World Series
And I've watched it more this year than I ever have,
excluding last year when I was there, because I was there.
And I don't know if that makes much sense to you,
And I don't know if that affects you as you're
watching nca Tournament games. If you've ever been to an
NCAA Tournament game at a neutral site with Kentucky playing,

(13:54):
or maybe you're watching UK play and you couldn't go
that year, you know what it feels like to be there.
And ESPN does a great job at the College World Series,
more so than with Pro Ball, showing the crowd, showing
the color shots, showing kids, exterior shots of the stadium,
interior shots. They do such a great job of capturing

(14:20):
the mood and the field and the color at that place.
It's just a different vibe than it is at a
pro game. And I've never covered a World series, a
pro World Series, but Omaha, Charles Schwab Stadium to call
it the Chuck. It's just a really great place and

(14:43):
it's a great event. And I'm listening to this kid
from Murray make this comment in an interview room where
I was at this time last year, and in fact
a year ago yesterday, I was sitting in there listening
to the Kentucky kids talk about Mitchell Daily's home run,
talking about Nicholson's home run to tide the game in

(15:03):
the bottom of the ninth. I was there when Nick
Manjione accepted the Coach of the Year trophy, So it
means a little bit more. Not trying to pair it
a the SEC, but it's just kind of cool if
you've been there, and in the time we were all
there the media, we got to know her every inch
of that place. So now watching it, yeah, I wish

(15:23):
we were all back there covering the game, watching Kentucky play.
But maybe next year. SEC still has two teams, one
in the winner's bracket, one in the loser's bracket. LSU
beat Arkansas on Saturday, so that's why Arkansas playing Murray
State in the loser's bracket. Tonight UCLA LSU at seven

(15:45):
o'clock in the winner's bracket, and again tomorrow, Oregon State
takes on Louisville. Beaver's eliminated last year in Lexington, but
they're making a run this year. And Coastal Carolina plays
Wednesday at two o'clock. Coastal has won twenty five straight games.

(16:07):
The Chantaicleers are on fire, so if Murray State is
out today, that's your Cinderella, even though it's not. Coastal
has been to the World Series multiple times and actually
won it back in twenty thirteen, So those guys play
on Wednesday afternoon. Up next, Jim Dappolis, UK grad and
retired NFL referee and now a Kentucky Pro Football Hall

(16:30):
of Famer, want to come on the Big Moved Sider
six thirty WLAP joining us now on our celebrity hodline
as a guy I used to actually work for back
in the day when I officiated games at UK and
Jim Dappolis went on too much, Bigger and better things
went on to work high school, college and then in
the NFL on the field for eleven years, as an

(16:53):
NFL referee supervisor for twelve and now is going in
to the Kentucky NFL Pro Football Hall of Fame along
with four other notables. Ref. I couldn't be happier. Congratulations, Well,
thank you, Dick.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
It's really an awful, great experience. What I'm getting right here,
as we've discussed, this is something that it's just so
humbling to me to be inclusied with these individuals. You know,
words just can't express how thankful I am for this.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
I see you every year. We talk quite a bit
on the phone, but I always see you at this event,
and uh, and yeah, it's such a great So many
great people show up. If you were from Kentucky and
played in the NFL, or you know, or if you
spent a lot of time in Kentucky and played in
the league, it's great. And you got a heck of

(17:44):
a class going in. Danny Trevathan, Michael Bush, Walt Yurowski,
and Sam Gruneisen who played at sant X back in
the day and played pro football. You're keeping pretty good,
pretty good company there, ref.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
You know, Jick when when I look at those guys
and I'm thinking, God, how am I in a group
of them? You know they're going to be showing highlight
films of you know, Danny making tackles and Michael Bush
running with a ball, and you know what am I
going to be doing? You know, I haven't thrown a
football or you know, they probably showed me getting knocked

(18:21):
down or given a signal for something. But like I said,
it is just so so humbling to be included with
this group of individual, unbelievable football players in their own
right and be included with them is just a it's
so exciting for me.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
I don't think I've ever asked you this. Why did
you become an official in the first place?

Speaker 3 (18:42):
Well, it was kind of interesting. You know, we were
topfully for the same reason you did. You know, we
were students at the university, uh, trying to pick up
a little bit of extra cash. I I just did
it to kind of, you know, kind of enjoy the
opportunity and pick up some extra cash when I was
a graduate student at UK, and you know, I set
some goals. I listened to Tommy Bell gave a talk

(19:06):
one time through the Central Kentucky Football Officials Association, and
I set a goal to get in the NFL. That
I ever think I was going to get here, absolutely not.
I just you know, I was hoping that I would.
I was hoping i'd work a championship game, you know,
one of those games up at Saint x Or, you know,
one of the high school championship games. But I got
some breaks, and then in the Ohio Valley Conference, I

(19:28):
kept pursuing it. I really wanted to do basketball. I
really wanted to get in the NBA at basketball, but
my breaks came in football, so it gave me an opportunity.
I got some great opportunities, so hey, I pursued it
and very fortunate to end up where I did.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
So did you start with a khsaai zoom?

Speaker 3 (19:48):
Yeah? Oh yeah, absolutely Well even before that, I was
working for the IBM club. An individual named Pete Owens
gave me an opportunity to officiate some you know, flag
football all games that they had over the IBM, which
were probably the toughest games I've ever infistiated with those guys,
But you know I did. I started with a K say,

(20:10):
working junior high school games around the state. Go over
to Jetsamane County and work, you know, five games on
a Sunday afternoon. You know, it just took a lot
of time. As you remember when you were doing your
fat you know, you get to get there. But you know,
it was a great way to get some additional income.
I didn't want to have to sack groceries as at

(20:32):
Kroger's on weekend, So just gave me an opportunity to
pick up some money and pursue something that I really enjoyed.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah, and the thing people don't understand about KJSA officials
to this days are not paid nearly enough. And you guys,
I don't know how much traveling you mentioned going over
to Jessmon County, but I've talked to guys in election
and who have had it. On a Friday afternoon, take
off and drive up into the mountains or or head.
I mean, you know, you put a lot of miles
in your car.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
Don't you let me tell you I did games up
in Whiteburg, get Lynch, and you know, I think one
day we had a game in Lynch and they had
a de snake the locker room before we went in there.
You know, I had some great stories of my opportunities
worked there. You know, I worked with Bobby Flynn, who

(21:19):
you know, the former senator. We were on a crew
together with Carl Elevation, John Clark, and Gary Paxson, and
these are guys that were so that mentored me when
I first started. Gave me the opportunity, and I'm so
thankful that I had that opportunity. But I started doing
it and I just fell in love with Talking to.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Jim d'opoulos, who is a member of the twenty twenty
five class the Kentucky Pro Football Hall of Fame, will
be honored at the end of this month, and we're
talking about his career which started when he was a
student in UK and worked his way through the OVC
where it was it tough to get in. I mean

(22:00):
where they need great officials now need officials period. Now,
what was it like back then when you were trying
to move.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
Up, Well, it was difficult. You know, you need to
do spend a lot of time working scrimmages.

Speaker 5 (22:14):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
You know, I had the opportunity, uh to work with
individuals in Lexington and they would bring you to scrimmages.
I'd go down over to Georgetown to work with scrimmage,
I'd uh, then I would go to Eastern and Western
and work scrimmages. And then I you know, you finally
get a break and somebody sees you, and you know,
you get that opportunity, so you know, and then you

(22:35):
just start making your application and hopefully I know that
if it hadn't been for Frank firsty, I probably would
have never get the cell piece of conference because Fran
was very instrumental in my getting in there. But it
was every afternoon going over to Kentucky practices and working
and putting my time in there. And it's a it's

(22:56):
a time thing.

Speaker 5 (22:57):
You know.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
Too often now, too many individuals, you know, they expect to,
you know, sign up to work football and they want
to work the state championship the first game, the first year.
But it just takes time. It's like anything else. And
you know, if you take your time, you know, pay
you dues. It. Really it's a great it's a great
opportunity for so many individuals.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah, you know, and and working those scrimmages. People don't understand.
And then we'll talk about this more a little bit
later on about that. You know, you guys are held accountable,
but those scrimmages are basically your practice session just as
much as the players. Right.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
Oh, absolutely, that's that's where you learned. You know, it's
the repetition. The thing about officiating is, you know, you
can learn the rules and you can do all this
this to learn about the game, but it's watching situations occur,
watching how they how they handle holding, watching how they
handle catches on the sideline. It's the repetition which really

(23:56):
kind of helps you develop it into a great official.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
You were an umpire in the NFL? Were you an umpire?
A great deal? And that's the guy who stands behind
the line of scrimmage. Uh did you do that a
lot as you were coming up?

Speaker 3 (24:11):
You know, I when I was coming up, it's kind
of funny. You know I would have I would have
worked on the sideline. I would have carried the water
bottles to the officials, you know, get that opportunity. But
you know, I I learned all the positions. I tried
to learn all the positions and understand it. I even
refereed a few games and uh, you know at the

(24:31):
KHSAA back to the Central Kentucky Football Officials Association. But
you know I had the opportunity to work different positions.
I worked in the When I first got in the
Southeastern Conference, you know, I was an umpire, and then
I worked downfield. Uh, the NFL took me in as
a deep official, and then I said, well, I'm never

(24:51):
going to be an umpire again because I don't want
to go in there with you know, with those guys
that get killed. But my one of the officials that hurt.
I was refereeing the do Dolphins and the Buffalo Bills,
and I made I think I made three holding calls
and I threw Brian Cox out of the games fighting,
and and my boss called me on Monday and he says,

(25:12):
you're an umpire next year.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
I said, okay, send me the NFL Europe. Give me
a little season of training. But you know, my first
year I worked as an umpire in the NFL. I
loved it in there. And then my second year I
refread the Super Bowl.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Golly, and when you worked NFL Europe, pat of that?
Where did you have to fly back and forth? Did
you stay in Europe throughout the season or how did
that go?

Speaker 3 (25:36):
Well? What they did was when I was on the
field in Europe, you'd go over You fly over on
a Wednesday, and then you'd referee a game on Saturday,
and then you'd probably start you'd start off and in
London and then basically what you would do, you'd via
there for a few days and then you'd go to Germany,
maybe Berlin or Douseldorf or something, and in ten days

(26:00):
over there at a time, work a couple of games
and then back and forth. You do that. You know,
you work maybe four or five games over there.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Did you get a chance to do any sight seeing
or anything? Was it fun?

Speaker 3 (26:12):
Oh? God, absolutely absolutely. And you know when I was
in charge, When I was a supervisor, my one of
my main responsibilities was NFL Europe. So I would go
I would go over five or six times a season
and spend time with the cruise. I would hire European officials.

(26:32):
I would hire some college officials and some NFL officials.
It would put them together and would work them and
it would go over there. And the thing that was
really interesting about it, Dick, was that we would go
over there and you know, they can officiated, we could
work for them. We wanted to see how they were
hanging out, you know, for a week over there, you know,

(26:52):
kind of you know, it became a family and does
he fit in with the group. Do you want to
spend You spend a lot of time with your your
actual your crewmates, so you know, do you want to
spend time with this guy. So that was what we
kind of did over there. But yeah, it was a
it was a great It was a developmental league. It
was the best league that they had. It was great

(27:13):
for NFL.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (27:15):
You know, they would use it as a developmental program
for the officials, the announcers uh Fox uh and especially Fox.
We'd bring their young guys over there and teach them
how to be announcers. Players were over there as a
developmental league. So it was a great league, but it

(27:35):
was costing the league a little money, so they decided
to cancel after about ten years.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
He is Jim Dappolis. He is one of the newest
members of the twenty twenty five Kentucky Pro Football Hall
of Fame. And we'll come back and talk more with
the ref in just a minute. On six thirty w
l a P. Welcome back. We're talking with Jim Daopolis.
He has been inducted into the Kentucky Pro Football Hall
of Fame and the event, The Purple Jacket Dinner is
later this month. There's a lot of festivities, but that's

(28:02):
that's the big deal, and Jim has always been there
as a supporter and now is going to be honored
that night. Although it's sold out, Jim, I don't know
if they're going to be able to fit anybody else
in there, but it should be a lot of fun
going in with Danny Trevathan, the former Wildcat, Michael Bush,
the former Louisville cardinal, Walt Uarski who played at UK,

(28:22):
and Sam grenaison from Louisville. But Jim, of course going
in as are have you mentioned Tommy Bell? He became
something of a local celebrity. How much did he influence you,
if at all? I got to think he did well.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
I can tell you. You know, Initially I was at
a meeting for the Central Kentucky Football Officials Association and
Tommy was there, and Tommy gave us a talk. I
talked about officiating in the commitment and doing all the
things that you need to do to become an official.
And it was that night that I sat there and

(28:58):
I went home and I said to my wife, you know,
I'm gonna I'm going to really pursue this NFL officiating
and I'm going to see if I can get to
the NFL. And as I said earlier, I never thought
I would get there. I really didn't. But I talked
to Tommy a lot, and when I was in the SEC,
I had the opportunity to go to the NFL. And

(29:20):
I actually spoke to Tommy prior to his passing and uh,
you know, I said, I love the SEC. I was
working great games, I had a full schedule, and he said, Jim,
as an attorney, I'm going to tell you how I
equated it. You know, do you want to work in
front of the Appella Court or do you want to
work at the Supreme Court and that, and that's pretty

(29:42):
much kind of kind of sold it for me. And
you know, I just felt so fortunate to, you know,
have him there to be a mentor and let me
ask some questions about it. And you know, he he
was inducted into the Kentucky Coat Football Hall of Fame
a number of years back, and I was very fortunate
to give his induction speech, and you know, I was

(30:04):
so proud to be able to do that and respected
him so much, as you know, he refereated a number
of Super Bowls and he was one of the most
visual referees that they ever had in the NFL. People
who he was.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
I remember his last year, Correct me if I'm wrong.
We all thought he'd get to work the Super Bowl.
But they needed him his strong hand because apparently the
AFC Championship game was going to be a real Donnie
Brook if you will, and they really needed a firm
hand there. And so they said, Tommy, sorry, but you

(30:42):
know it's not going to be the super Bowl for you.
It's going to be this game because that's where we
need you. That says a lot about.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
Him, it sure does. And you know, a very close
friend of mine and one of my mentors, Mik McNally,
who was the only official who has been inducted to
the Canton the Hall of Fame, and Andre Art was
the supervisor and kind of the godfather of of officiating,

(31:08):
and he said to me, he told me how much
respect they had for Tommy and and just Tommy's manner
out there. You know, I think I heard I heard
his son Bruce said, Tommy used to say, you know, uh,
on the during the week. You know, I'm a lawyer,
but on the weekend, I am the law and that's

(31:31):
that's who he is. That's who he was, you know
he was. He was so unique at such a great individual.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Jim and I in the past have talked about replay
and how things have affected the NFL and all, and well,
we may talk about that some other time. But what
I did. I've only got a few minutes left, but
one of my and naturally, having been an official, never
not nearly as accomplished as you. But I am quite
sympathetic as a media person, and I kind of twinge

(31:59):
when I hear people say, you know, we need full
time referees, and I always tell them, Look, if you
knew the hours these guys put in away from the game,
looking at video and talking to each other and meeting,
it's basically like these guys are already full time when
it comes to the hours they work and the scrimmages
and things like that. Am I right that?

Speaker 3 (32:19):
You know? That's exactly right, Dick. You know, you know
the thing about officiating, You know, so many people have
this perception that you know that we get to the
game on Sunday morning, we come out from the stands referee,
the game and go home that Sunday night. And it's
not like that. It's a seven day a week job.
You get a couple of months off in the summer

(32:41):
or in the fall if you I mean, I'm sorry,
not the ball, but in the springtime if you want.
But guys work right through the year. I mean, if
you're not doing studying talking to someone every day. The
best you know who the better officials are. They're the
ones that spend the most time working this. It is
not a part time job. It's a full time job.

(33:03):
They finally, you know, they are compensated now accordingly. You know,
it was a long time. You know, they say, well,
you're only working games on Sunday. Well, I think the
league has finally discovered that, you know, they need these
individuals working, you know, and studying. So yeah, it's a
it's a full time profession now, uh, and they do

(33:24):
very well with it.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
People, especially here in Lexion, in a college town, as
you know, uh, firmly believe there are people out there
that you guys and officials are not held accountable. And
again I try to say, look, I've known officials who
are simply not invited back, which means their contracts weren't
renewed or whatever. They don't make a huge deal about
firing people. But if you're not good enough, they leave

(33:48):
you behind and move on, don't they.

Speaker 3 (33:51):
That's exactly it. You know, you're graded on every every game,
and they and the officials that work in the playoffs,
you know, great out higher than the ones that you
know that aren't working. You know, and they don't they
don't advertise or they don't publicize hiring, nor do they
publicize firings. You know, it's all kind of kept in house.

(34:14):
But if an official is not doing the job, if
he's not working in the playoffs, you know, he's not
going to be rehired. And you know, it's a situation now,
you know, you get hired by the NFL as a
as an official, you know, it's almost like you hit
the lottery. It's a it's a it's a it's a
great situation. You know, great benefits, the great compensation and

(34:35):
great retirement. So it's not a bad situation. But you've
got to do the job. And if you don't do
the job, you will be replaced.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
And you know what you just described the life of
a player. You know, great money, great retire, great benefits,
all this, but if you're not good enough, you get
cut and they move on.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
And there's always somebody there waiting to take your plate, exactly,
always somebody there.

Speaker 5 (34:59):
Ye.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Well, before I let you go, I got to ask
you this. Now. I'm sure at some point you work
baseball somewhere. You probably work softball at UK when you
were a grad student. All but they the pro umpires,
Major leagu umpires. And again, my brother's been an umpire
for fifty years. He's in the Coaches Hall of Fame
as an umpire. I did it very sympathetic, but the

(35:21):
way they call balls and strikes now is just out
of control. And now they're talking about using robots, and
you know, everybody has an opinion on that. But as
a guy who has been a professional, either a supervisor
or on field official, what are your thoughts on on that?
And again, I don't you know, I don't want you
to pile on to guys in another sport, but how

(35:44):
does that sit with you as a guy who was
a professional official.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
Well, when I got into the NFL and they had replay,
you know, I feel that replay is a great tool
for officials at every level. I think correct correctable areas,
and that's what you want to do. You want to
be as corrected and as perfect as possible. I think
what they have done, and my feeling is is it's

(36:10):
been overdone. I think a lot of officials have kind
of lost their uh their guts to make calls. They're
more concerned with getting you know that, well, we'll go
to replay, Let replay, refix it, let replay do that.
I think you've got to have confidence in the individuals
that are working out there, but you have to have

(36:30):
confidence in yourself as an official. And I think they
used it too much as a as a crutch rather
than you know, using it to correct those errors. They
almost hit to a point, especially in football, where they
want to officiate the game from instant replay, which I
think is a big mistake. But you know, people expect

(36:52):
NFL officials to be perfect. You know, they don't expect
bank baseball guys to make everything correct, basketball officials, et cetera.
But they expect football officials to get everything right, and
it's not going to happen. They make mistakes out there,
and uh, you know, I like the tool. I like
to replay tool. The one thing I always would like

(37:15):
to have done in my life was get behind the
plate and call balls and strikes in a makes the
League game. I have so much respect for those guys.
I don't even know how they determine what is the
ball and what is a strike? I mean the way
that comes, you know. But it's like everything else, as
you said earlier, it's the repetition, you know, when you're
looking at thousands of them, thousands of them every year called,

(37:38):
then you know, you know, everything flows down and makes
it easier. But you know, I like replay, and I
think people expect replay, but I think it all comes out.
People really want everything correct, and it's just not going
to happen.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
No, but robots behind the plate maybe maybe on the
way because they are not calling balls and strikes as
well as maybe they should. But and these guys have seen,
like you said, thousands and thousands. But that's a topic
for another night. We could talk about it all evening.
I'm so happy for you, congratulations, looking forward to seeing
you at the end of the month and seeing you

(38:12):
in your purple jacket.

Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yeah, well, I appreciate it, Dick. I've you know, I've
appreciated our relationship. We've known each other for a long
time and we've had a lot of good talks together.
And you know that I'm always available and look forward
to seeing you at the Purple Jacket Affair this year.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
Sounds good. Ref have a good one.

Speaker 6 (38:31):
Take care, Dick.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
Thank you up. Next now we number two with John
Hale of the Herald Leader and Christy Thomas or the
UK Sports Network. We will talk a lot of Kentucky
football next time. Six thirty wlap.

Speaker 4 (39:04):
Taken backed tact.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
Welcome back to the Big Blue and sider joining us
now as a guy you know from his coverage of
UK football for the Herold Leader in Kentucky dot com.
Mister John Hale, John, a good Father's Day weekend, I trust.

Speaker 7 (40:46):
Yeah, absolutely. It's always good to take a little breather.
Made sure to get plenty of football news and for
us last week beforehand.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
But there was a lot of news and let us
start with the headliner, which was of course Vince Merrow.
And I had your colleague John Clay, who of course
made a headline of his own last week by announcing
his retirement. And I asked him if he was surprised,
and he said, well, John Hale has been hearing some
rumors about this for a while. Had you been hearing

(41:15):
stuff like that?

Speaker 7 (41:17):
Yeah, it had been about three weeks since I first
heard the rumor this was in the works. It was
that week of the SEC meetings in Destin, because the
way it was initially phrased to me was, hey, you
see where like the source of the events is going
to go to Mark later this week and lay out

(41:37):
this opportunity of like kind of give them one last one,
last chance to you to counter or whatever. And of
course we've seen this play out so many times of
Vince Marrow in the back of my mind and you know, okay,
this is just another another thing that's going to end
with a new contract or a new title or something
like that, and read the end of it. And then
that weekend came and it was like, well, they didn't

(41:57):
talk today, They're going to talk next week. And then
the next week it came and still heard nothing. And
so by the end of that week I was like,
I'm assuming this is not happening. And then the Sunday
before it came out, I got a text that night
that said it's a done deal as long as Ben
doesn't back out at all. Whow, I well, that still
leaves a fair amount of grace. This maybe he goes
to Mark and they have that final conversation and everything

(42:19):
gets worked out. And then the next afternoon, that Monday,
I was trying to track stuff down and had not
heard back from anybody in the ESPN report comes out
as well, it's actually happening.

Speaker 6 (42:29):
So I was.

Speaker 7 (42:29):
I was surprised to see it actually get over the line,
even after hearing the rumor for so long. But I
had at least gotten a little bit of a heads
up that it was possible.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Were you And again, like you said, you had to
ask yourself. It's just just another you know, And kudos
to Vinz forgetting offers. I mean, you know, good people.
That happens. But it seems like those balloons were floated
over and over again. But when it all settled into place.
How surprised were you if at all?

Speaker 6 (43:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (43:01):
I mean I was, because, like you just look at
it and you say, you know, he's had these opportunits
before to leave and has never done it. Is he
really going to leave his childhood friend to not only
go to another job, but go to the arch rival
where he's going to be like, you know, roster management,
and I had heard the title. The position was not
a position to go to. It was kind of a
general manager, you know, assistant associated ad kind of position.

(43:23):
And that's like he was going to be in the
roster manager part, which means like his whole job is
going to be recruiting at Kentucky. That's that's a huge
portion of it, Like he's actually going to do that.
And especially when it was dragging out the way it was,
when I was hearing behind the scenes, I was like, Okay,
he's getting cold feet. He's not going to end up
doing this. So to see it actually come through, yeah,
I was surprised. I mean, and his comments you know,

(43:43):
over the last week publicly when he's talked, we still
haven't really heard from Mark Stoops other a statement they
put out that relationship is very, very interesting, and it
seems like Vince is trying to have it both ways
where he wants Kentucky fans still love him and not
being mad at him. I don't think that's realist stick
in anyway. But it's going to be fascinating to watch
moving forward. What's this means? You know, as as he

(44:05):
goes out and recruits against Kentucky, and he's not been
shy about poking all over the years and having done
with the rivalry and how they're fans embracing him. Let's
face at Kentucky's recruiting has not been very good the
last couple of seasons. Their roster man has not been
great with the results on the field. So can he
get better results at Louisill was the philosophy change at
Kentucky that kind of led him to make this decision?

(44:28):
Is that going to work? Is that going to pay off?
I wish Mark Stoops would have come out last week
and done some interviews, but I guess the next time
we're going to hear from his SEC media day, Yeah,
in Atlanta in July, and that's that's going to be
all we want to talk about.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
Well, and the other biggest question is, and at this
end of the interstate it's the biggest question is now,
you know, how will this affect Kentucky's roster management? Will
there be a significant change in the way things are done?
Because you're right, of late, it has not been and
Stoops his I didn't met it as much.

Speaker 7 (45:03):
Yeah, that to me is the most interesting part because
I think the change has already happened, and I think
that's directly why Vince left, because even when I had
heard that the rumor that like he might be leaving,
he was going to be bark one last time, it
was specifically to me, it's not about money, Like my
understanding is, his salary at level was pretty much exactly
the same as his salary here, So it wasn't only
more money, but he wanted that power back in the

(45:23):
recruiting process where he basically had final say over every
player they pursued, and Mark has not approached it that way,
especially over the last off season, probably the last year.
In generally, you look at that that transfer portal class
they put together over the winner and we'll see how
it plays out. I mean, I don't think anybody can
tell you for sure whether it's a good class or
a bad class or whatever, but it's a very different class.

(45:45):
So often before, so many of their transfer targets where
guys that Vince had recruited out of high school and
they you know, went to Ohio State or Tollabama or wherever,
and they didn't get and then it came back. It
worked with Wandell Robinson, although Wandell Sai didn't come here.
If Lamponen's not the offensive court, it did not work
with a bunch of other guys. You know, maybe Chip
train and ends up being good last year if he's
not hurt, but he was hurt, and then even after

(46:05):
he was healthy, he wasn't really a part of the offense.
So they clearly made a philosophy change in the transfer
class to not do that anymore. And they had given
each of their position coaches more power to decide who
they recruit at their positions and ice in the high
school classes. Obviously their twenty six high school classes gotten
off to a really really slow start. I think they're

(46:26):
up to three commitments finally, but don't had one going
into June, which is kind of unheard of, And so
that part of it had already changed. And Vince wanted
that power, you know, to kind of have final say back,
and Mark had not given it to him. So maybe
that plays out. That's why I'm kind of surprised that
she has not been more out in front of this,
because I think you could have made a very compelling
case to come out and say, hey, the results haven't

(46:48):
been good enough. The last couple of years. I have
to put the program first. So we made these changes.
And you know, Vince is my friend, but he has
to do what's best for him. And if he doesn't
agree with the changes, you know, good luck to him
somewhere else. And you maybe could have even won some
battle that you've been struggling to win this summer with
fans who want you to make changes. But they didn't
do that, and they've kind of just had to be
reactive to the whole situation, which is I'm sure frustrating

(47:10):
for fans, but I do think they legitimately had already
made changes in their recruiting approach, which kind of led
to this now the questions whether those changes work or not.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
And now it's going to be really interesting to see
what happens when these programs, as they often do, go
after the same kid, you know, because I remember when
when I'm a little bit older than you are, but
when Rick Batino got here, he was throwing all kinds
of flowers at Denny Crumb until they clashed over a
recruit and then it got really sour. So I'm curious

(47:42):
about that, you know.

Speaker 7 (47:44):
Yeah, And like that's a fascinating part of this too.
Because obviously Jeff Brohm has been so good recruiting in
the city of World in particular dating back to his
days at Purdue in Western Kentucky to a lesser extent
before that, But we had made such a big deal.
He was the twenty nineteen class when Vince went into
Louisville and took over recruiting there and had such success
and got all these four four star guys from Woisill

(48:06):
with five star guy in one case, and we made
such a deal by it. But when you look back
in hindsight, none of those guys really panned out. JJ
Weewer was the only guy they got in Louisill in
that stretch who was even a starter. The rest of
them all left before their eligibility was up, and JJ's
career didn't really pan out the way that we thought
it was early in his career because the injuries and

(48:26):
so like that really didn't work. They're in state recruiting.
The last two or three years, they have not gotten
star players from in state, and that's not Vince's fault necessarily.
They got the best players in the state just kind
of whoo who was available in those years, but there
in state recruiting in this current class, Woisill was already
cleaning up, or they got vents. Maybe that was a
philosophy change because they hadn't worked recently. They do have

(48:49):
young guys in their you know, freshmen coming into freshman
year this year, their second year on campus from both
Kentucky and Ohio that Vn's recruited who maybe turned into stars.
But those pipe ones had not been nearly as successful
the last couple of years as they were for most
of Fence's tenure here. And so that's interesting to see.
Are they is that because they were getting different players,

(49:11):
they weren't getting as good players. Is the talent just
dried up? But my understanding is the high school class
in Kentucky, the junior class now is like one of
the best in the state in a long time. Like
that's going to be a huge deal with Wolwill gets
all those guys in Kentucky does. But they also have
to pan out, which has not been the case recently.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
Well that's what I wondered about the last few classes.
You know, how many kids from the city of Louisville
have become productive D one players any idea?

Speaker 7 (49:38):
I mean, not a ton because Kentucky was getting all
the highest ranked guys in those classes, and it wasn't
like they were just getting the best of what was available,
like they were legitimately in the one class with j
Ju Weaver and Jared Casey and T. K. Krums and
like Shaun Kell Night Golf. I mean there was like
four or five four star recruits in that class based
on all of the Cree one so and just none
of them really panned out. And so that you know,

(50:01):
maybe the recruia websites were wrong. Maybe something else happened.
Maybe in this constant era of constant you know, roster turnover,
they didn't stay around long enough to developed somewhere. I
don't know, but like that part of it has not.
It just never paid out the way that we hyped
it up on signing day. So it will be fascinating
to see if Louisville has more success with those guys,
assuming they're getting the down Kentucky's not.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
Yeah, And I remember Ted J. CRuMs was supposed to
be the answer, right and it just you know, along
with the other guys. And I'm not knocking a kid,
but just here it just didn't pan out. He is
John Hale other Hair of Leader covers Kentucky Football, and
we'll come back and talk more with John on the
other side of the break here on six thirty WLAP

(50:42):
Welcome back, We're talking with John Hale, beat writer for
The Hero of Leader covers Kentucky football, among other things.
One of the other bits of news about assistant coaches
was an extension of the contract for Eric Woolford, who
coaches the offensive line, which has been one of the
most highly criticized lment of this team over the last
two or three years. Did that surprise you, John, or

(51:04):
did you hear about a job offer or you know,
how did that go to?

Speaker 7 (51:07):
Yeah? Yeah, that's another one where I think they need
to do a better job of coming out publicly and
explaining what's going on. Like I have a fair amount
of sympathy from Mark Stops this offseason in terms of
public messaging, because the people who are out and think
that the ship is sinking, nothing you say over the
offseason is going to change their mind right to go
out and win games. So I understand that part of it,
But there are still casual fans who are giving you

(51:30):
the benefit of the doubt and maybe aren't on Twitter
all day long or whatever. Those fans like Vince Merrill
leaving the Woolford extension like that, those are the kind
of news that resonates to those fans, and you got
to explain a little bit more. I am assuming I
have not been told this. I haven't got it confirmed.
I just don't see a scenario where they give Aeric
Quill for an extension or any assistant an extension this
offseason without some other school trying to hire them. So

(51:52):
my assumption is somebody tried to hire him, and regardless
of the results last year, they think he's a really
good recruiter. They clearly gave him full autonomy to rebuild
this offensive line the portal over the winter. They apparently
like what he did there, and so they've kind of
made their bed there in terms of, like, if we're
going to get this fixed, it's going to be air
Wolford who does it. And so at that point, if

(52:12):
you believe in him that much, you can't you can't
really have another offensive flying coach turned over and start
from scratching in the summer. So you've got to do
what you can to keep them. And so if it
took an extension and one hundred thousand dollars Rays to
keep them from whatever school came and pursued him. That's
the decision you made. Maybe it's the wrong decision in
the long run, but I understand why they would do that.
But they need to come out and tell us that. So,

(52:33):
I mean, like, come out and explain what's going on
there and maybe people will understand a little more. I
actually don't. I mean, one hundred thousand dollar Rays, I
know he's gotten a lot of attension. I wouldn't read
too much into that at all. That's just how these
contracts work. When you give a guy an extension, the
salary goes up by about that amount every time. So
that's is what it is. The extra year is more
interesting because they have I think five assistant coaches who

(52:56):
are only signed through next season, and normally they don't
let those contracts get down to the final year unless
there's obvious like maybe this guy's not good enough, not
going to come back, and like Brad White's only got
one more year left, and Chris Collins, who they've promoted
the convincesquarrias you only got one more year. Normally we
would see those guys getting extended by Nail, and the

(53:17):
fact they haven't done that seems to be a clear
reflection of where the program is right now. And so
since they've made the exception with Wolford, that's got to
be because somebody came and tried to get him. Know,
let's hear a about why that happened.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
Now, in a situation like this, where you know, this
is such a critical year following such a disappointing year,
really a span of three but ultimately you know, four
and eight, you know, you've got to think stability is key,
so you know, get these guys taken care of. But
on the other hand, you've got the house settlement to

(53:50):
deal with, You've got all kinds of budgetary challenges coming up.
You wonder if that's all part of the pie.

Speaker 7 (53:57):
You know, yeah, absolutely, I mean that was the other
news about last week is what their revenue sharing. They're
going to operate at a deficit the next two years,
which we know the Kentucky's Athletic Department has been financially
independent for almost twenty years now at this point, so
like that is a new thing. They're taking a loan
from the university to cover that, and then an additional
one hundred and ten million dollars loan from university to

(54:18):
finance these facility improvements at Kroger Field. Like all of
that speaks to a finances are a big deal, but
also be like they have to find a new way
to get revenue and control expenses. And the fact that
all of these first this first wave of facility announcements
they did are all at Kroger Field tells you that
football is really really important to making that work. Like

(54:38):
they have to be able to make the revenue off
these new luxury suites at football whatever this entertainment district
outside the stadium ends up looking like they have to
get revenue from that to survive or to at least
thrive in this new environment where you're going to spend
twenty and a half million dollars every year in revenue sharing,
and so part of that is definitely controlling expenses. But

(54:59):
they have not laid people, They have not cut salaries
and ask coaches to get money back like we've seen
at other schools. Like they are spending money to make
money and it's almost all on football right now, so
that's they got to get better results too.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
They haven't cut sports yet either. I mean, other other
universities are doing a way with the so called minor sports,
non revenue sports, and that's that's going to be happening
more and more, isn't it.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (55:22):
Absolutely, And Mitch martinheart his like mine, heeps say, is
like we want to keep our family whole. It's the
same thing he did during COVID when we were seeing
layoffs and cuts everywhere else. Like, that's very important to him.
To his credit, I you know, give him a lot
of appross for that, because you know, those people who
come to school to play soccer and whatever else, like
it's important to them and I understand why you do it.
But the finances are what they ought at some point,

(55:43):
and to make this work, they're going to have to
find a way to generate more revenue, which is the
hope with these luxury suites and some other things. And
that depends on football being good enough to sell the tickets.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Yeah. Yeah, the champions blueboard that will oversee UK athletics.
Do you know about it? And how do you feel
about that? Yeah?

Speaker 7 (56:02):
It's interesting. I mean I still keep there's got to
be more to the whole LC thing than we have
figured out yet, because to me, it just seems a
little bit like just shuffling things around behind the scenes
for some reason that I had yet to see. They
keep saying more flexibility and get out of some university
like red tape that maybe was holding them back. But
we have not seen an example yet of something they

(56:24):
can do with this board, with this setup that they
couldn't do previously. Like even the facilities the announced last
week still voted on them the same way they did before,
still got the loan from the university that they would
have needed otherwise, the one accepted. That might be the board.
They want to bring in people with outside expertise and
pro sports that can consult and advise them on how
to do this. And the three people they announced Jacob Tanney,

(56:47):
and we know has this illustrious history both playing in Kentucky,
playing in the NFL, and now is a guy who
advises professional athletes on their money, so that's an important
part of it. Shannon Arvin, the president's CEO Hngland, has
been there while Keenland is undergoing their biggest renovation since
the track open in terms of building some new seating

(57:08):
and restaurants and the new paddock, like that's going to
be helpful for them. And the third guy, Chris sitting
in Prindeville, was an executive that Fanatics recently, was very
involved in that nil space and their college licensing program.
We're in a licensing company before the Kentucky was a
client of, so he clearly has expertise in that space.
It will be fascinating to go to these meetings and

(57:29):
see like how active those three members of the of
the board are and how much say they actually have.
You know, I assume it's not just going to be
window dressing where you put them on the board to
get a headline and then they don't actually do anything right.
I still don't think we have a lot of a
lot of information yet about how that's going to actually
work and what they're going to do. And the next year,

(57:49):
my understanding, is going to be kind of a transition
period where they're figuring that out themselves. But they're going
to start meeting soon and we'll find out well, and.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
The season is going to be on top of us
before we know. We've talked before about how vital this
one is, and I've talked to more than one person
about the fact that Toledo the opener is the typical
It's going to be the typical MAC team that comes
in here thinking it can win, planning on winning, not
just coming down to pick up a check, you know.

Speaker 7 (58:20):
Yeah, I mean they got a bunch of people coming back,
and they beat two Power five teams last year. Yeah,
I mean, so they have full confidence that they can
come win this game. And Kentucky absolutely is not in
a position where they can overlook that team, especially with
so many new players, like over half the roster will
be playing for Kentucky for the first.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
Time this fall.

Speaker 7 (58:38):
Have no idea what to expect from that. There will
certainly I think even if they're if they exceed expectations,
there will be some growing things as they figure it out.
And having that game week one is a perfect trap
scenario where if something doesn't go right, so they have
to be locked in immediately, because losing to Toledo is
I think a realistic possibility, but also like an absolute

(59:00):
worst case scenario in terms of getting people to buy
in and get in any sort of positive vibes, it
would be as aspect.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
Yeah, because you got old miss next and I don't
even know what they're going to be like, but they
will be an SEC team. You know, they'll come in
with the bigger, faster, stronger guys and I'll let you
go with this, John, This is fascinating to me this
period right now, because you know, receivers and running backs
and quarterbacks they can go out and throw the ball
around all they want. How do linemen improve, you know,

(59:29):
other than the weight room? How do they improve as
a unit on their own, you know, because they can't
always be under the coach's supervision. If there's a way
to do it, I'd love to know about it.

Speaker 7 (59:41):
Yeah, I mean, I assume they're trying to work on
that cohesion, which is going to be really important, and
it was good they got all those guys in for
spring to do some of that. But I mean, the
weight room is huge for this group in particular, and
we already heard it at the end of spring, which
I think could be a little bit of a red flag.
But also it's just kind of reality when you recruit
a bunch of transfers from group of five schools underline,

(01:00:01):
which they did. All those guys are experienced, they played
a ton of college football. The one exception joshua' bron
the left guard from Arkansas, so he said that he's
played at this level. The folks, your tackles, the guy
you brought it at the center, all of your depth
that you run in the portal are our small school
guys Bush and into the last week of spring practice
like they have to hit the way from this spring

(01:00:22):
this summer to get to the physical nature of the
SEC to make that adjustment, they needed to put weight
and muscle on this summer. And that is going to
say I think as much as anything about whether this
line is.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Good good payoff in the fourth quarter. We'll see, We'll
soon see. We will soon know about this team and
John Hale will cover it for the Hair Leader. Follow
him on exer Twitter at John j O n h
l E Underscore HL. Thank you, sir, c down the Road,
thanks for having me say with us. Christy Thomas is
next here on six thirty WLAP Welcome back to the

(01:00:54):
Big Moon side of joining us now is my longtime friend,
colleague teammate on the UK Sports Network as well as
back in the day at w KYT. Miss Christy Thomas,
who anchors our pregame coverage, also works UK women's basketball.
We shall discuss both here on the Big Blue Sider
and there's never an offseason, Christy, you.

Speaker 6 (01:01:13):
Know that, right, Yeah, no, never. I've got two kids
in baseball and softball, and that truckt me. Those seasons
are year round. Two.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
Yeah, and you post quite frequently about your kids, which
is great watching them, just you know, knowing you when
you were single and now you've got kids who are
out winning ball games. It's it's so much fun. But
I've got to think you are as stunned, I would
imagine as the rest of the Big Moone nation with
the word that Vince Merriw was changing addresses. Am I right?

Speaker 6 (01:01:44):
Yeah, you know, I think rumor mill is always pretty wild,
and I think at the end of every football season
there's always some kind of talk about, well, people are
going to go here, so and so is interested in
so and so, and you know that kind of thing. So,
you know, Vince's name has been tossed around for years
about going places and being courted places and that kind
of thing. So I think its departure wasn't necessarily a

(01:02:05):
surprise as much as where. And that's probably the case
for a lot of us, is that, you know, when
you've been a part of this rivalry for so long
and it. You know, really, when when the University of
Kentucky becomes a part of who you are and a
part of your identity, you really understand how bitter that is.
Isn't how put that can be for anybody to swallow.

(01:02:27):
So I think it wasn't as much, wasn't as surprisingly
left as much as I was about the location.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
It's going to be interesting to see the impact it
does have though on UK recruiting. But over the last
three years, the years that have clearly been disappointing two
UK fans, and ironically enough two of those years, you know,
Kentucky's in a ball game. But now it's all about
as much the transfer portal as it is you know,

(01:02:53):
wooing the high school kids. So you've got to wonder
about the direction now and the effect in miss of
UK recruiting and can they get back to where they
were because, let's face it, Levis comes through the portal,
Wandale Robinson comes through the portal, and some others, But
those are the key guys for the last really great
year Kentucky had.

Speaker 6 (01:03:14):
Right Well, yeah, you know, I think the biggest understatement
of the century could be that we're in the landscape
of college athletics is different. That is so really it's
kind of almost silly to even say anymore because it
couldn't be more true. So that then means that recruiting

(01:03:35):
is different. Everything about it is different. And so sometimes,
you know, I'm a believer that gone are the days
that a coach is going to stay somewhere, any coach
at any level, within any regardless of where you are
assistant coach, a position, coach, whatever, where you're going to
stay somewhere for twenty thirty years. Those days are done.
Those days are gone. And I think that's maybe what

(01:03:56):
we're seeing, what we've seen here is just that sometimes
it just runs. It's cool. Sometimes you've done all you
can do at a certain place and then it's time
to move on. And I think that's what we're seeing
here with Vince is that you know, he did what
he could do. He helped put UK in a really
great position when he could really utilize his skills and

(01:04:17):
what he did so well as a recruiter, and it's
now different. And so I think because of that, it's
just time to have a different perspective and a different
face and different person doing that. And that doesn't mean
that he won't go be successful somewhere else. I think
that's fine, you know, So I'm not super bitter about
the departure and about this being different. I think, Okay, great,

(01:04:40):
you he did a great job at that time, was
what Kentucky be did at that time, and now it's different.
So now we're moving on, and you know, and I
don't mind, Like if the dynamics are different inside the
building and you know, then sometimes it's just time to go.
Sometimes it's just the right time for everybody to do
something else, and there's nothing wrong with that. So that's

(01:05:01):
really where I'm at with this, is like, you know,
now it has to be something that you know, you're
looking for someone and something very different from what Vince
brought to the table when he came on board at
Kentucky years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
Yeah, and it's interesting too that he goes to Louisville
as basically the GM, not an assistant coach, a positions coach,
even an associate head coach as he was here, not
a recruiting coordinator, but he's the head honshow when it
comes now to the NIL, I guess now he will
still factor into recruiting. This is to me what's going

(01:05:35):
to be fascinating, even if he's not an off campus
guy when you get a kid on campus and Vince
Merrill will be one of, if not the first guy
the kid talks to about, you know, your potential future
here at the University of Louisville. And you never know,
the kid the next day or the next weekend might
be in lexing and having the same conversation with Mark
Stoops and Eddie Grant because they're going to be still

(01:05:57):
going as they have for decades, to the same players.

Speaker 6 (01:06:01):
Right, Oh, yeah, no question. And you know, and I
think we we've all heard them talk. We've heard him
be in different situations. We've heard him do interviews and
that kind of thing. And you know, I think when
when you do come face to face with him, you
know he's he's a charismatic guy. He's funny, he's relatable
to these kids in a lot of ways. So you know,
he does he has something to offer as far as

(01:06:22):
that goes. But you know, I think to your point,
it will be different. You know, I always wonder what's
the pitch. There's a sales pitch every single time you're
recruiting a kid, Right, And I said I would love
to be in a living room and know what that
sales pitch is from a head coach at Kentucky or
a coach at Louisville, or a recruiting coordinator from Michigan

(01:06:44):
or Ohios that what's the pitch. There's there's always a
pitch to the kid and their parents about why they
should come to or or you know, even consider coming
to that football program. So, you know, I think I
think that would be really interesting to know as you
shift years now to to a level what's the pitch?

(01:07:05):
But you know, because sometimes that kind of stuff can
get nasty, there's no I mean, it's happened in other sports,
you know, as you're recruiting the same kid, you know,
I know back in the day women's basketball, and you know,
it would get really testy and could get you know, interesting.
So I think this could be so there could be
a little of that, you know, I mean, there's some
plenty of animosity to go around for.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
All of us. What kind of pitch did they make
a Campbellsville to land you having grown up there, not
much of one.

Speaker 6 (01:07:31):
I mean, it didn't take much, as you know I said,
of anything. It was you know, some of the opposing
coaches from other schools said, we didn't even bother. We
knew you were going there, so we didn't you. We
didn't even put you on our list of recruits to
even offer you because we knew that's where you were going.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
So you didn't have to put up with a hard
cell to trying to turn your head.

Speaker 6 (01:07:50):
No, the heart and cell was. You know, which was
kind of interesting, is I was not a Division IE
level player, but I was offered a walk on position
at at Louisville. And you know, that was a situation
for me where I, huh, you know that that's great
and I could be really cool, but is it really
what I want? You know, in terms of of of
knowing I'm going to get beat up every day and

(01:08:11):
have to just give everything I got for it. Like
a very rooty situation, you know, where you end up
one day, you know, maybe making a play in a
game and you know, because you got in for about
thirty seconds and I'm like, no, that's that's not really
what I'm when I'm after. So that was it was
a no brainer.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
You would have been the kid who when you stood
up to go in the crowds, Oh, they're putting in
the subject exactly. I mean that's great for some, but
not for you. Uh. Before before I hit the break, Uh,
the man who has been chosen to coach tight ends,
Derek Shea, has been on staff. But what I think
more importantly, he already knows Bush Hampden's offense. And I

(01:08:49):
bring that up because looking ahead, Christy, this is the
first season that ham Dan will have had the full
year cycle to work with everybody on the roster and
get that offense familiar. Uh. You know how much hope
does that give you for the coming year?

Speaker 6 (01:09:05):
Well, it does give me a good bit of it,
just because I think we're we're in a position with
Kentucky football that we've not seen this where we've had
that kind of consistency with offense. We've been wanting it
and we've hoped for it, but we've just not seen
it and it just hasn't happened. And I think that
you know, that becomes they're you know, unrest, I think
in the locker room, and you know that's where you

(01:09:25):
I think run the risk of really losing us to
the transfer portal when you just can't have some consistency
to really start to build something and and that's what
we're finally seeing. And I think once you can kind
of figure out the offensive line again and you can
kind of get that back on track where we are
used to seeing that level of play, you can really
get some consistency at the quarterback position, and you know,

(01:09:48):
different things like that. All of that can really come together,
and it just takes time and you have to be
able to give it time. And you know, we're we're
not a patient world, that's for sure. But I think
that that that will certainly be beneficial to everybody involved
in the program that there's finally you know, this is
the guy they know. This is a guy Shay. I

(01:10:11):
don't know much about him. You know he was involved,
but not in a real high profile role or situation
with the program. Third, it'll be interesting to see how
that comes together and it'd be a totally different perspective.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
We're talking to Christy Thomas. She anchors our pregame coverage
of UK football on the UK Radio Network. We'll come
back and talk to UK women's basketball. Christy, of course
works with Jeff Picarel on the UK streaming broadcast. Back
in a minute on six thirty WLAP Welcome back to
the Big Blue and Sider. We're talking with Christy Thomas,
broadcast partner for jeff Pacarel on the SEC Network streaming

(01:10:42):
channel for UK women's basketball. Before we talk about the
upcoming season in this roster, Christy, this is going to
be a season minus Georgia Aymore and we only got
to see her for one year, but clearly she has
the impact I think that Kenny Brooks needed and wanted,
And what do you think this team's going to be

(01:11:03):
like minus one of the best players in America.

Speaker 6 (01:11:08):
Well, outside of her play, which was just so impressive
and so fun to watch and actually has me very
disappointed that we only had her for one year, is
is really her leadership this She was a young lady
who just had such a presence on the floor. Was
really a calming presence. I think she never got rattled,
she never got overly emotional in a negative way. It

(01:11:31):
was always in a very positive way. She's somebody who
knew Kenny Brooks better than anybody else on the floor.
So I think that to me becomes so crucial in
terms of what you're missing without her on the floor.
You know, listen, she can put in you know, twenty
six points a night, and you know, tennisis and all
those are wonderful things, but when you take on those

(01:11:54):
intangibles like that, it made her so incredibly valuable to
this team. So I think it definitely changes the dynamic.
I think it now forces some young ladies to step
up in a way that maybe they haven't normally, Like
a Clara Strack is not a super vocal kind of
leader and player, but she may kind of, you know,
be forced into a situation like that where she's really

(01:12:17):
got to take on more of that. But I think
that that will be the biggest unknown. You know, when
you have the transfer portal so readily available and players
that you're bringing in like that, that is going to
be the single biggest question mark for Kentucky is you know,
who can kind of move lessen. Everybody needs to stop

(01:12:38):
thinking who's going to be the next Georgia Amore because
there's not one. So I mean it's not that's not
the question, it's it's who can run the offense. Right
now we're looking at not who's the next Georgia Amore
and who does what Georgia does. There isn't anyone, So
it's going to be who can run the offense efficiently
to keep this team on that winning playing field here

(01:13:02):
where where they're they're you know, Kenny brought them back
last year, so they got to stay there, and then
that'll be the question.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
Well, he did bring in Tony Morgan, the point guard
from Georgia Tech. I have no idea what her games like.
You cannot You're right, you cannot expect her to be
another Georgia Amoor. But you know she started ninety five
games and has scored twelve hundred points and you know
his average five assists per games, so you got to
think she knows a little something about playing point guard.

(01:13:30):
Plus having come from the ACC, you know Kenny Brooks
knows about her.

Speaker 6 (01:13:36):
That was a great get for them. I mean, there's
no doubt about it. She brings a little more size
at five nine, so she's got a little more size
than what Georgia had. But there there was no question.
You had to have somebody with some experience, somebody who
was a little older be able to put this on
that you know, this team is really you know, I

(01:13:57):
say on their shoulders that that that that's not fair.
I don't think that's right. A fair assessment that somebody
who could come in and have some confidence about themselves
to say I can do this. We need you need
me to run the team. That's what I do. I'm
a point guard. I run, you know, and I can
run this offense. So you know, I think she is
a great get for them in that way, you know.
But again it's a matter of coming in and you've

(01:14:18):
got to learn everybody. You're learning Kenny system, you're learning
what he wants, how he wants things, but you're also
learning Lexington and the university and a new place to
live and classes and where am I going and where
can I go eat? And you know all those things.
So it's a lot for anybody that's coming in as
a as a first year player here at any school,
not just Kentucky. But I think that was a big

(01:14:40):
get for them. But I'll tell you this, I am
more excited than anything about watching the two young ladies
who were injured last season, and that's Jordan Obi and
Dominica Parova. They by all accounts were or could have
been starters and so and when you lose them, and
they've got great size, they can shoot, they can do

(01:15:01):
so many different They're athletic. They're long, lots of things
that these young ladies can do, and they were out
all season long due to injury. So they'll both be
back and I am so excited to see what they
can do because there was so much talk about them
going into last season as Kenny came on campus. So
everybody watch out for those two. They're going to be
really fun to watch well.

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
And not only that, by default it means more depth,
which is something that really affected Kentucky last year. A
lack of depth.

Speaker 6 (01:15:30):
Oh they just didn't have it. Yeah, I mean, you
know I said that there were every single time they
took the floor and they played, I just kept thinking,
don't get into foul trouble. Just no silly fowls, right,
I mean, and that became an issue. I mean, like
for Clara Strack, you know, she was a very aggressive
type of player that you know, would get saddled with
some fouls early. And I kept thinking that about Georgia
aymore like, please just don't pick up two early fouls,

(01:15:52):
and even when she did, she often still played, you know,
in the first half. So yeah, you've got to have
that depth to be able to play as aggressively and
as you need to play in the SEC, you've got
to have some depth because people are going to get
in foul trouble. You're going to get beat up and
bang around, and you've got to have some depth, and
they definitely will have that this year.

Speaker 1 (01:16:11):
Well, let's talk a little bit about one of the
other stars they have coming back, and it's Clara Strack
and a tremendous defensively, but they're going to need more offense.
I guess at her this coming sit, I guess they
need a little more of everything. Right.

Speaker 6 (01:16:26):
Well, she she is an all everything player. I mean,
this is a young lady who, to your point, can
defend and can also score. But we saw last season
that she's an excellent passer. She sees the floor so well.
She can dribble, you know she can. She easily can
bring the ball up the floor, and Kenny Brooks has
no problem with that. So keianni Key's no different. I mean,
she's also one of their post players at six four

(01:16:47):
that many times rebounds the ball goes the distance. I've
seen her take it coast to coast and go all
the way up for a layup and no one stops her.
So but that that versatility is really what Kenny is
is actor and what he likes with his offense is
you know, being able to do lots of things, like
different things like that. And you know, Claire was somebody

(01:17:08):
that I think really surprised me in that regard that
about how how well she passed the ball, how well
she sees the floor, and so I think that's a
really fun thing to keep an eye out for her too,
to see, you know, she will just continue to get better.
And she's a hard worker. This young lady isn't isn't
doesn't shy away from from the hard work. So, yeah,

(01:17:30):
a little bit more of everything, right, I mean, when
you lose twenty some points a game or you know,
eighteen points a game with Georgia Amore, you've got to
have a little bit more of everything from somebody like that.
But again, I go back to this idea of her
being a leader. They're going to have to have more
of that more than anything is her leadership and her
vocal leadership, and you know so so I think it'll

(01:17:54):
be really interesting to watch her kind of move into
a bigger role like that and to watch who else
you are. I mean, that's always a fun thing as
well too.

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
Oh yeah, and the kid you talked about who missed
last year, those were bigger kids, right. I mean that
that's more size in the league where you've got to
have size.

Speaker 6 (01:18:11):
That's they're both six to one and and what I
love about you know, Jordan Obie's got some real personality
and I think she'll be a lot of fun for
fans to watch and get to know. You know, is
a few times that that I've interacted with her, been
able to see and interview with her. She's got a
lot of personality and she really understood she's again older.
She said she's going to be that graduate senior. So

(01:18:34):
she's a little older and got some years on her
and understands being around a little while. So she's going
to be a lot of fun. I think she's somebody
that could easily be turned into a fan favorite.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
She is Christy Thomas and before long you will hear
her coverage of UK football. She hosts our pregame coverage
along with uh Logan Stenberg. I'm sitting there looking at
his picture Logan Stenberg and Jeremy Jarman.

Speaker 6 (01:19:00):
He'll be He'll be bad. You forgot it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:02):
Well, he needs to come back on the show. I
keep trying to get him back on, so I didn't
forget him. I'm looking right at him. But anyhow, it
won't be long before our football covers begins. Thank you,
young lady, thanks for having me and that'll do it.
Thanks to my guest Christy Thomas, to John Hale and
to Jim Dapolis and congrats again on Jim going into
the Kentucky Pool Football Hall of Fame. That's a good

(01:19:23):
night to the garage in Lexington sixty nine.

Speaker 4 (01:19:29):
He was giving him the business.

Speaker 2 (01:20:14):
Anything, doing anything, do anything at stake that anything I

(01:20:49):
think from TAPS is undetta donating to the US

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