2025-06-3 - BBI

060325 Tuesday Cameron Mills pays a visit to the garage. We talk college hoops, Mark Pope, Rick Pitino, his step-son's new book plus coffee and donuts.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Big Blue and Sider Dick Gabriel with
you Tuesday edition of our program, and tonight Cameron Mills
joins us here in the garage. Of course, we pre
record talked to Cameron earlier today, and we talk a
lot of basketball. We talk a lot about coaching. We
talk about Rick Patino versus Mark Pope, different styles of coaching,

(00:20):
and why both are and have been successful will be
successful at Kentucky. And of course Cameron and Mark Pope
are good friends. They were teammates, they won a national
championship together and survive Rick Patino together. But both of
them now think as much of Patino as anybody in
their respective lives. So we'll talk about that. I will

(00:43):
warn you that Cameron and I and if you've listened
to our conversations before, you know this, we get off
on tangents, but usually it's at the end of the show.
Somehow today and I'll take the blame, we kind of
lost track early and we spend a lot of time
talking I don't know how about coffee and doughnuts and

(01:06):
things like that, and many of you out there enjoy
one or both, so you might find it interesting. I
hope you do, but stick around for the basketball talk
because that's the most interesting part of all. Before we
get to our interview, we'll tell you, and you probably
have already seen this by now, but Randall Cobb, who
might be the best all around player in the history

(01:29):
of Kentucky football, is on now the ballot for the
National Football Foundation College Hall of Fame. I do vote
for that, and I will tell you I will vote
for Randall Cobb. I will also tell you that the
ballot is absolutely jammed with great college players. I don't

(01:50):
have the time to go through them all now. Probably
do that tomorrow night, unless I have Jerry duty. But
it's going to be really difficult because there are so
many great players. And what is also interesting is how
many of these great players came across the path of

(02:11):
the Kentucky Wildcats. You've seen, if you've watched Kentucky football,
so many of these great players. I guarantee you, if
you're a college football fan, you've seen them on TV.
Every time. It seemed like every third or fourth name,
I'm like, I played against Kentucky. Oh that guy? But yeah,
you know, so it's really interesting. We'll go over at

(02:31):
like I said, tomorrow and I we don't really have
the time to do it tonight, but congratulations to Randall
just for being on the ballot. And he was, as
you know, a wide receiver, a quarterback, punt return man,
kick return man. And I went back and forth on

(02:53):
Randall Cobb or Dickey Lyons Senior as to who was
the best all around player versatile player in the history
of Kentucky football. Of course, Dickey Lyons played in the
late sixties and unfortunately for him, played on some of
the worst UK teams in the history of the program.
They just didn't have enough around him. Had some good players,

(03:15):
but not enough. Randall played for winning teams for the
most part. Now they won games a lot of the
reason because of him. But I always wondered was he
the best? And of course he was a finalist for
the Paul Horning Award as the nation's most versatile player.

(03:37):
And none other than Jeff Van Note, who was broadcasting
Kentucky football back then and played with Dickey Lyons, he
pronounced Randall Cobb as the best versatile player and playmaker
in UK football history. That sold it for me. And
I got to tell you, Dicky Lyons was my first

(03:58):
college football hero, same name, first name, and I was
such a great player, and of course Kentucky almost always
lost when his teams would play. So I was a
huge Dickey Lyons fan and did a story on him
for TV many years ago, got to be friendly with him,

(04:19):
and of course was a big fan of Dickey Lyons junior.
But Jeff Van Note said it was Randall, and if
it was Randall, according to Note, that is good enough
for me. One other basketball note before we hit the
break and start chatting with Cameron. A couple of satellite
basketball camps announced by Mark Pope and his staff Laurel

(04:42):
County on June twentieth from five to seven thirty PM
at North Laurel High School and then in Russell County
June twenty first at ten am ten to one ten
eight I'm sorry, ten thirty to one Eastern time at
Russell County High School and both are for boys and

(05:05):
girls ages seven to seventeen. So go UK Athletics dot
com for more info. And when we come back, Cameron Mills,
you're in the garage six point thirty WLAP Welcome back
to the Big Blu Insider and as I mentioned, joining
us in the garage is mister Cameron Mills. We haven't
visited with Cameron really since right after the basketball season ended.

(05:27):
We have much to discuss looking ahead now that there's
not an entirely brand new roster with a lot of
new faces, but we usually get caught up. We chit
chat before we start recording, and believe it or not,
our topic of discussion as he arrived in the garage
was this huge container of beverage that he brought. You're

(05:51):
always you know a lot of times you'll have like
a big gulp or something. Today it was something that
the equivalent of a big gulp. You know, let's tell
me something.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
You know, Lloyd comes out of the for the convenience
store and looks over at the rough guys and goes
big gulfs. Huh Okay. Then yeah, well today it's like,
I don't know what it is. It's a Stanley, but
it's not. First of all, I think so I think
it's what it is. It's like, it's like this might

(06:23):
be the either more expensive YETI or the cheaper YETI
got it. It's all garbage. But what's in it is
Heaven on Earth cold brew cough cold brew coffee. Now
let's discuss the difference stick because Cameron is getting ready
to become an entrepreneur and get into this again. What
do you mean again?

Speaker 1 (06:43):
You've always got something? What else was not entrepreneur? You're
delivering flowers for a while.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
That wasn't a business I started. That was that was helping,
That was making extra money. Susan and I are door dashing.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, I mean we're just.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
Author talk about that a little bit later.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
Wait, listen, this it's it's a busy household over that
with the mills resid so but no, this is this
is my Susan loves coffee. Susan gets up every morning
and we do coffee, yes, which I find coffee in
and of itself deplorable because I don't like bitter things.
I don't I don't like beer. I don't true, but

(07:25):
you know, you have you have to have your exceptions.
I don't like the taste of beer. I don't like
taste of alcohol, which I'm thankful for because you know,
I've had addiction issues in my past. So I'm like, oh,
it's good. This is not This is not my drug
of choice because it's pretty easy to get. But I

(07:45):
Susan gets up and every morning it's like she brought
a cuig into the into the marriage. That's what that was.
Her contribution helped me zero. But I started getting into
you know, like, all right, you know what camer you
can'tdrink I cope, your entire life, So let's get something
that might be healthier. And then we started getting into

(08:06):
the the heated microplastics yep, thinking okay, you know, and
this decisions idea. She's like, you know, I don't know
how safe that is, and I'm like yeah. So so
we got away from the curig and then we went
to and when I say we, I mean her because
I don't you know, I'll drink the coffee.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
She sets the tone.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Oh absolutely, in every in every way. And that's that
has not said bitterly. I just said, God, thank god
I found her. But so the decision was, okay, let's
get a regular like a coffee pot, which oddly enough,
the millennials and the generation whatever they are now, they's
Squadron call. They are starting that they found this new
thing called a coffee pot where they can make their

(08:48):
own coffee at home for pennies to what they've been
paying at Starbucks, and so it's it's this brilliant thing
they've discovered. I think a lot of us should get
into it. And uh so, anyway, but what's funny is
she got the coffee pot.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
But you you have to go through many many steps
to make the vanilla frappuccino. Yeah, we don't, you know.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
True many Starbucks people.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
No, true, absolutely, I get that. But you can also coffee.
You could also And if you like your blackie, you're Blackie.
That's what I'm gonna call my first Colbert Black Excellent. Yeah,
I think I don't think that CAUs any problems. If
you like your coffee black, then your job's done right
either way. I mean, it's the easiest thing to do.
But I don't like bitter things. Therefore I cannot do

(09:32):
black coffee. So this has a load of sugar free
creamer in it with a slight vanilla flavor. But anyway,
so she got the regular coffee pot. But here's the thing.
The regular regular coffee pots have plastic in them. The
hot water is still going through plastic. Yeah, I mean
it is.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
I can no, it is.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
Well in our in ours like the one we got
because again, I guess depends on how expensive one you get. Anyway, well,
it depends.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
On the staff. If you have a French press, that's
not a big.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
True true because that's the metal. Yeah, but get it.
Come on, what that's a little mix. Who are these
pretentious people French pressing their coffee up?

Speaker 1 (10:08):
We used to have one. We used to have and
then my wife then and you matured, a wife's a
coffee fish. We have not to get you off track.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Which we were already off track.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yeah, but we have a coffee maker upstairs that she
purchased at a pretty penny because it's what Jennifer Aniston.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
Oh you told me this last time told me.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
It makes you eat coffee.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
Jennifer, Jennifer Instant makes a great thing. That's except movies.
But she but she did make a great TV series
for about ten years and was my college crush. I
was gonna say, yeah, I don't even make me different anyway.
So anyway, so so I started because of a TV
show that you and I both adore, called Archer.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
And this is why we're recording this. We were gonna
talk basketball first. Archer is an animated series about the
greatest private greatest.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
The Greatest Private Eye. Yeah private Yeah, he's a secret age,
secret agent. He tells everyone he's a secret if. Most
people probably have heard of or watched it, but it
is usually one of those mini shows that you and
I have gotten each other into. I mean, I hear
the Scrubs, thirty Rock Archer, I got you into Letter

(11:23):
Kenny and into short uh so Seinfeld, that's what I
think that's was the original one. But anyway, so there's
a there's an episode and I think it's season seven
of Archer, but it's when they start getting into the
like kind of weird seasons where he's in a coma. Right, well,
this is the one that puts him in a coma.

(11:44):
That's that season, right. So the two the two police
officers played by Key and Peel. I'm pretty sure at
least one of one of the two is doing the
voiceovers for one of those for this character. And these
it's these two detectives looking at Archer's body. Uh it's animated,
by the way, folks. So I was looking at Archer's body,
you know, overturned in a pool with gunshots in him,

(12:05):
like he's dead. Right, That's how the scene opens. So
the detectors are talking about you know, you know what
what you know the case, and then the other guy
played by either Key or Peel. I forget which one,
but I recognized the voice basically says he's gonna go
get a coffee, and and the other cop who's being

(12:26):
the you know, the the rough one. It's like, I like,
mind black, he goes up, I'm gonna get a col Brew.
He goes easier on the tom tum and he looks
at him. He's like what he goes Yeah, Colebrew has
about two thirds less acid.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
And so I'm like, hmmm, you're taking dietary advice from a.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
From an animated TV show. But I've done I've done
this several times. I mean, I have learned about things
my mom told me when I was a child. The
reading was important. Now I'm not going to dispute that. Okay,
you're a teacher, no no, no. My mom yes, in

(13:07):
the sense that she was a mom, I mean meaning
meaning she was she was until call your until until
the nest was empty. My mom was a mother period.
She was. She didn't work, she worked, she was a
she worked at home. And that ain't mean something different today,
doesn't it. She was a mother and a wife at home. Okay,
one one of most important jobs area. So don't even

(13:29):
think I'm saying it's not a job. She's don't get
paid for it. So anyway, So but she always said,
I mean I hate to read you know this, and
she but she would always I mean, just from time
was a child. It's like, camer you got it. Have
you read your book for your book report. I've read
the back of the cover. Cameron read the book because

(13:51):
I've told you sadly, And I'll confess again, how many
books have I read my life? And what are they?

Speaker 1 (13:56):
The Bible and the autobiography of Malcolm X.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Why because Alex Haley could write his rear end off?

Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yeah, but why that wasn't a gateway to other books anyway,
back to cold back.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah. So anyway, so they're they're talking about it, and
I'm thinking, Okay, I you know, I guess I'll try it.
And then I went through the phase where I was like, Okay,
so this is caffeine. It's it's got the bitter sweet
to it coffee in general. Right when you put creamer in,
you get caffeine. And then I'm like, I just don't

(14:28):
want to get up in the morning and drink something
three hundred degrees. And I've always been like that. I
don't I like hot chocolate, that's about it, right, and
that's in the winter. So then I discovered ice coffee,
all right, And so then I went through that quick fase.
It can be a little bitter, yeah, yeah, And I
don't mind a little bitter, especially when it's loaded with
a bunch of sweets and so and then I went

(14:50):
and so I went through that phase, and then the
Archer thing happened, and I'm like, I wonder if my
stomach would feel better after cold brew, because I was
confused between ice coffee and cold brew. Folks. There's a difference.
Cold brew, as it, as has stated, is brood cold,
not brood hot. So it takes a day to brew.

(15:11):
It takes like a like a cup and a half
of coffee round. But it is it is. It is
my drink of choice. Now I am a diet coke occasionally,
and is it uh yes, no, no, I mean I
can honestly tell that like when I I if I
go back and I just have to have like a

(15:32):
regular couple offfee, meaning we're somewhere where there is no
cold brew, which is many places. And that's the problem
with the world that I'm trying to change. And so
the problem the problem, yes, and so I mean, I
don't know what other problems you could be referring to.
And so, uh, but I can tell when I drink
gray of coffee, I'm like it just I don't know

(15:53):
how to describe it. It's just a tummy ache. And
then when I drink this, no, no, it's it's it's
it's it's it's the soothing this of a diet coke,
all right, without the.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
Coke is being soothing.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Well, when it's your when it's your drink of when
your when's your first thing in the morning drink, which
sounds absurd. It's like I was living like a college kid.
Well actually college because they pay ten dollars for some
Starbucks every day. But I am starting my own coffee company.
Back and forth. It's all going to be Colebrew, cams
Cam's Coldbrew, Cameron's Cold Brew. I don't know if I'll

(16:27):
put my name in it. We'll figure it out.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
Right, they're out of the house.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
Well initially, yes, I'm not investing million dollars of infrastructure
into this, you know, potentially failed concepts.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
You know what, folks, he had an idea when he
got out of college that he was going to try
to bring the election, and we'll tell you about that
after the break. He is Cameron Mills. You don't, folks, No,
this is well sort of uh no, Cameron, of course.
He former wildcad, two time national champion and a member
of our UK Sports Network team covering Kentucky basket ball

(17:00):
on our pregame show. We'll come back, I promise and
talk basketball and his buddy Mark Pope and the new roster.
We're also going to talk about Rick Patino.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
That's right, yesd the off season back.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
In just a minute on six point thirty WLA B.
Welcome back to the Big Blue and Cider. We're here
in the garage with Cameron Mills, former Kentucky basketball guard,
now member of our pregame coverage on the UK Sports Network.
And we wasted the first segment.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
Talking about not waste it informing.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
The public educating the public about coldbrew coffee.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
A lesson that was learned by watching an adult animated
TV show. Watch for it.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
I guess you'll you'll see it on the internet if
and when Cameron's Cold Brew is born. But that is
not the furthest will not be if you follow us,
it won't be the first time he is tried something
of a business man because coming out of UK pre
n I l of course, you guys were part of

(17:57):
the Barnstorming Tour, which is.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
A great tell. There was one every year, right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
Great tradition and so you had a little bit of
change in your pocket.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
Well, we had just won a National champions right, which
is always funny if you look back at the autograph
set the guys who graduate and the autograph sess as
they get to do, which again it's completely different now
they get to do them while they were players. But
if you come out, if your last season at UK
is a final four, those autographs tours and barnstorm tours,

(18:24):
which they really don't do much anymore, they're going to
be successful. You come out of the UK and your
last year is a national champion and you've actually got
two of those suckers and one runner up. Yeah, they
go incredibly well. And we had three thousand people two
days after the National Championship Game ninety eight. We have
three thousand, Jeff Shepherd, Allen Edwards, and I with three seniors,

(18:46):
and eventually Nause joined us because he was gonna go pro.
We had three thousand people at Fayette Mall get in
line winning our autograph.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
You remember guy charge for autograph.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
Well, we didn't charge for autograph. Fayette in that case
paid us per hour to be there, and it was
still an obscene amount. Good and I and that's the
thing I don't I don't. I don't feel comfortable saying it.
I'll tell you off the area and I've told I've
told other people before. It's not like it's a secret.
But I'll just say it's like three thousand dollars an hour,
all right for the three of us to sit there

(19:18):
and sign our name, Okay, And what made it amazing
that day? And granted it was the very first one
we had, and it's tailed off in the last twenty
five years, folks. Okay, I I'm not charging that much anymore.
And uh, but the line they paid us for three hours,
that was the deal. There were still at least seven
hundred people in the line of three hours, and so

(19:39):
the manager of Femal came to us in our ears
we're signing and saying, hey, we don't want to disappoint anybody,
would you guys stay an extra hour for half of
what we paid you per hour? And we're like, well, heck, yeah, nice.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
I mean that everything else you made, Yeah, you had
some some coins, seed money, and you had I had
a great idea because at the time Electioningdon did not
have a certain franchise, so which you know, when you
brought it up, I thought, yeah, I wonder why so
you investigated what?

Speaker 2 (20:13):
So I grew up appreciating, as sane rational people do, Yes,
the gloriousness of the hot Krispy Kreme. Exactly when the
hot light is not on, you don't go when the
hot light is on, you get two dozen and you
down them immediately. All right, hot, how that works out?
So I decided because they the only one I'd ever

(20:34):
been to is in Tallahassee, Florida, where where my mom's from. Gotcha,
And that was like a tradition. We'd get done for
Christmas and on Saturday while we were there, Dad would
go to Krispy Kremen and you come back with the cruelers.
By the way, Krispy Kreme, your greatest mistake ever getting
rid of the ruler.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Didn't they really?

Speaker 2 (20:47):
They did? They Still you still find them, but they
don't make them in their stores.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
Really.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
And let me tell you the greatest culinary experience of
my life was happening to be in a Krispy Kreme
because light was on. Is that's the rule? You don't
pass the Krispy kreman. The hotline is on, right, you
don't pass it. That is literally in the Bible, that's
a sin. So so i'm I'm I'm in there, and
they're not. It's the hot lights on, but they're not

(21:13):
making their glaze. They're making their crulers. Oh my god.
And I'm like, and I I already love coolers and
I'm thinking hot crulers. Is that possible? I mean, okay,
so I got a dozen gracing I've ever put in
my mouth.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
All I can think of is the scene from The
Simpsons or Homers and Hell strapped into a chair and
they're shoving donuts into his mouth with a machine and
he just keeps going more more more, and the devil says,
James Coco went mad in an hour.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
I don't even know James Coco. It is an actor,
but anyway. So yeah, I said, why don't we have
a Krispy Kreme, and.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
Like, right, and you are going to provide the seed money?

Speaker 2 (21:53):
Well, I was, I didn't know Krispy Kremes. Yeah, I
don't think that's what they would let me call it,
but but I was. I at least called got in
touch with Winston Sale in California, which sale in North Carolina,
got on the phone with the vice president of franchise.
I mean, come on, who is he, especially now, especially

(22:17):
now in my well, that's exactly how it turned out.
And I just said to I introduced myself. I said,
I've run into some money.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Wait a minute, when you introduce yourself, did you say
national championship?

Speaker 2 (22:29):
Now I might have said I'm a former Kentucky basketball player,
maybe kind of grease the wheels a little bit. Yeah, yeah,
but I just said, I've run into some money, and
i'd like to I'd like to inquire about the possibility
of a franchise Chrispy Kreme franchise full store right in Lexing, Kentucky.

(22:51):
The rest of the conversation lasted five seconds, and I'm
not kidding, that's no exaggeration. He literally said, there's no
market for one there click and hung up on me
now again, all right, dream shattered you overcome right. Two
years later, one freaking opened up over there off Frischman Road,

(23:11):
and we're there every Saturday.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
Where are you?

Speaker 2 (23:14):
Alex loves them. Alex loves them. We were there the
other day and and they were making hot ones. But
they weren't. They weren't the glaze, they were the They
were the ones you stuff that you put cream in.
He was devastating and I told him, I said, buddy,
they're still hot.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
My faves are the jelly stuff.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
Oh, those are by the least favorite, raspberry or lemon. Oh,
my least favorite, to be honest, is when Krispy Kreme
feels like they have to do these special limited release
donuts come. We don't. We don't need a Grinch donut.
We don't you talk.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
About the hot donuts? Now? Yeah, as we drift further
and further our topics, but one of our favorite stories
we tell people about the UK Network is from football
and we so this was a year. There were a
couple of years. Here's some inside baseball for you. A
couple of years when the contract was up and our company,

(24:09):
the rights holder, was going to prepare a bid to
try to win it back. So now they're trying to
squeeze every dollar they can and what might be the
last year with the contract. And again this happened a
couple of times. So instead of us flying with the team,
we were asked to drive everywhere.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Hard you all to fly with the team.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, we have to buy seats because the university has
to buy the seats.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Anyway, they're buying the seats or they buy the plane.
There are there are seats that go unused on these flights.
I've been on many of them.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
No, not on football.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
Oh I don't know about football anyhow.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
So we're we're all piles stuffed into this suv and
our late great statistician, Errol Thomas Brownie was driving, and
our producer, our great, the great producer, Mike Dodson's in
the front seat.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
We just got a promotion, by the way, with state government.
Did you see that, Mike Dodson? No, no, no, I'm sorry,
not Mike. Jim Barnhart Sorry.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Okay, anyhow, the other day, Jim's our basketball producer. Now anyway,
So we pull out of the stadium at Florida. It's
it's early evening after covering yet another butt kicking. You know.
Now they go down there with a chance to win.
But back then, no, so we had just been you know,
we're numb to just another and it's a long drive

(25:22):
home brother from Gainesville. Well, Harold inadvertently takes a wrong
turn and goes left instead of right, and we passed
a Krispy Kream. Okay, we don't really think about it,
but we we passed Krispy Kreme and then immediately realize
we're going in the wrong direction. So Harold does a
yuie or turn, pulls in, turns around and in the

(25:45):
interim the time it took the turnaround like hot donuts. Now,
Mike Dodson lost his money. So you gotta stop, Harrold.
Come well, Harold, thing was he never stopped?

Speaker 2 (26:01):
What and why do you let him drive?

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Hold on? He drove every mile of every trip. He
loved driving. Okay, he drove an RV to Little Rock,
Arkansas one year, the entire way and getting Harold to
stop unless you know, unless you really had to go,
you know. Well, so as soon as the rest of
us realized what was going on. Yeah, there were three
of us in a Vaccat pounding on the seat like Harold, stop,

(26:26):
you gotta stop, man, Harold, and Mikey's in the front seat, Harold,
come on. He finally relented and pulled in and man,
we got sick.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Christy uts I told you story before we were in.
We we had just beaten South Carolina in Columbia and
this was one of the Patino years. And we're we're
driving back to the airport. This is a nine o'clock
ESPN game, so it is now one am, and we
are just now leaving Columbia heading home, and we're driving

(26:57):
past and we're on our way to the airport, and
we're going down this main thoroughfare in Colombia on our
way to the airport, and we passed at Krispy Kreme
and the hot light is on and this is one am.
Hotlight is on because they got to mixed up. We
had won, which is key to the story, of course,
because if we hadn't won, no one would have said
a word. But we won. So Anthony Epps screamed from

(27:21):
the back row of the bus coach, can we stop it?
Just like we were all on it. We were all
ten years old on a vacation with our parents, and
coach said, yeah, let's stop. Wow, we pulled this bus
of ravenous college guys and a butt load of other
people pull into this Krispy Krean. They send the managers

(27:45):
of course, because of course they did in and every
player got twenty four to look. This is a coach
that is a I mean, all he cares about is
how much you weigh? What do you weigh?

Speaker 1 (27:59):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (28:00):
And Anthony and I and and which is It was
silly for Anthony because Anthony's I mean, he's always he
was always in shape. But remember coach was like, okay,
but you got to be quicker, so you got to
lose weight. So there's always this balance for most of
the guys of okay, I need you to have strength,
but you have to be light enough to be quick
enough to beat your man to get to the corner
to cut off the angle. Except for me, who lived

(28:23):
the opposite life of a Walter McCarty who had a
ten thousand calorie a day diet and mine was about
fifty calories a day. And so but anyway, so for
coach to say, hey, yeah, go get them donuts and
then they come back, I mean they got to make
four trips in and out of the store to get
all these donuts, and they hand every player two boxes
and not a single donut was left. Tell me about

(28:45):
that airport, they were all gone.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
You're on your way to pre diabetes. All right, Once
again we shredded away another segment when we come back. Honestly,
we'll talk basketball with Cameron Mills on six thirty WLAP.
Welcome back to the Big Blue Insider finally, and I
will get to basketball. He's here in the ground. We've
covered cold brew, we've covered donuts, so we've got your

(29:07):
morning routine covered. We are not going to talk about lunch.
I mean, come on, no, no, I promised. I've promised.
I promised our audience we'll talk basketball. Let me throw
this at you. I'm not going to get into the
preseason polls because that just sets you off on some
insane rant.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
But I don't know if it's insane. But yeah, yeah,
but you know what, everyone's heard it, that's right, but
it is. It is my I preached Jesus and I
preached this nonsense.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
Where are you on the notion? And it's it's offered
from basketball analysts and fans and everybody with very gently
with love that if it was a honeymoon for Mark Pope,
it's now over and it's time now to look at
Kentucky as a legit national title contender. Last year was

(29:57):
all about getting the program back on its feed, not
that it was totally off, but you know, an empty roster,
you know, you know what I'm saying, Well, uh, it was,
it was. It was tense. There were some tense moments,
the questioning, oh you mean of the hiring of Mark Pope,
Who the heck's going to play these games? And he
fills out a roster, How in the world are going
to do this? Et cetera. And they did it quite well,

(30:18):
thank you, in spite of in spite of injuries.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
No they didn't.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
What do you mean they didn't because they didn't win.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
What did Mark say?

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Well, Mark said, we failed, Yeah he did.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
How can you be a Kentucky fan and not love
hearing that. I mean, we got two rounds past what
Cal had done in the last five years, which is
what everyone that was their reason for why he needed
to go. We basically we one get. I mean we
didn't we set a record, a Kentucky record for the
most top twenty five teams ever beaten in a season yep,

(30:50):
and maybe even top fifteen teams. I mean, we had
no business doing that. So from a logical standpoint, and
remember Mark is not logical, he's brilliant, he's he's sincere.
But when it comes to no, we're here to win
one thing. And again what I'm sing saying it is
illogical to expect a national championship every year. It won't happen.

(31:14):
But in Mark's head, right, and and look, I would
be the same way if I was in that position
or even attached to the team anymore, because when I played, no,
we're this is not a try to win, it is
a this is number one goal in anything short of
this is failure. We didn't when we because we did
every year we set out our goals as a team.

(31:36):
We had a session. Okay, it lasted thirty seconds when
the SEC tournament was never on there, because that was
a given. When SEC regular season wasn't on there, it
was a given. There was one thing on this goal
list every year, and it took thirty seconds for coach
to write it on the board. And it was like,
let's do it. I mean, and that's it's literally literally

(31:56):
how it was that you were there every year. It's Kentucky,
it's look, the fans are part of it. And when
the fans expect one every year, and you know, look,
I don't I don't know what it was like during
the struggling years, right, the Gillespie years, the you know,
the years where you know, and I don't know what

(32:17):
years these would even be. I know you would wear
ye yeah, where it's like Patino's first year, yes, right,
and where they're we're like, okay, all right, let's let's
let's temper our expectations a little bit. Well, the fans
rarely do that. And I've never been on a team
where the where the where the expectations were tempered.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
I will tell you, if I may interject, Patino's first year,
they were tempered because right we media fans whoever, we
didn't know. People would ask me how many games are
gonna win. I'd shoot my arms up in here, like touchdown,
and I'd say seven, and I don't know where the
seventh is coming from, but they'll upset somebody.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
And they went fourteen. Ye.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
I still think that might have been Patino's best coaching
year all things you considered.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
You know, and not that I've ever shot away from
from the stolen the incredibleness of that man. But do
you know how much easier it is to finally do again,
to be able to be able to say to people
and know that I'm not going to get into an
argument with some knucklehead.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
I want to get to that because the perceptions of
him have changed thanks to Mark Pole in part. But
let's come back to Mark Pole. Okay, yeah, I guess
you know, if you're expecting a championship every year in.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
Mark and Mark and that's still.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
As like you as a shooter, you expect every shot
to go in. Yeah, but that's not logical, right, you
know you're gonna shoot.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
It best fifty Yeah? Okay? And then occasionally, not to
pat myself on the back, but I will you get
into an NCAA tournament, I don't know where you're shooting
sixty five percent from three point line during the tournament,
and then you have an argument with your teammate about
who was the second leading scorer on that team that year,
Wayne Turner. I was Ron Roser, Cameron Mills, Wayne Turner.
He disputed that in a tournament. So in the tournament, yeah, yeah. Yeah,

(33:56):
that argument has been going on for about twenty five years.
And to be honest, I'm afraid he has the stats
to back him up. But in my heart I was second.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
That's all that mattered.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
Really it is, isn't it so Mark saying that? And
I mean again, it's just it's so much fun just
to hear Mark talk. And remember that this is Mark.
This is what Mark used to do to us when
we played. It was we were tired, we didn't have

(34:26):
any more juice in aur gas in the tank for practice,
and this idiot is saying, coach, are you sure we
don't want to run some more? And look as mad
as we were in those moments, and that happened maybe
once or twice, right as mad, I mean the rest
of us looking at this idiot like, dude, shut up.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
But you couldn't be mad at him.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
You can never be mad at Mark. You could be
terrified of him.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Really.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Oh yeah, I'm telling you the story where I thought
he was gonna punch me.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
No.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
So we're doing a drill and again this is when
this is ninety six. So I'm on the team, putting
up playing barely in practice and we're doing a drill
where basically it's a fast break drill and the guys
have to the defense right, has to run back. Everyone
getting the paint and it's spread out right, so you
got to come back guard the paint and then you

(35:17):
got to get out quick and guard the three. So
it's basically run back and then close out. So it's
close out drill really more anything. Well, I wasn't impressing
anyone on the defensive part, but even back in ninety
six and this is look, this is all due to
coach p I was an assassin in practice. I was.
You know who else was Chris Harrison. Chris Harrison was

(35:40):
everyone hated him in practice. So my freshman year, I'm
watching Chris Harrison, who never played, and that was the
future I was looking at. Chris Harrison just absolutely destroyed
the rest of the team when it came to drills
like this, because the point was if the offense score,
the defense isn't going anywhere. And so you stick Chris

(36:03):
Harrison in a corner and where's he going Nowhere? He's
gonna stay in the corner and drain one hundred threes
in your face and you're never leaving before So I
watched him do that my freshman year, and I thought,
that's my job, and so that's why I became so
I in practice, I literally we would do all these
drills where if the offense score, defense had to stay

(36:24):
in there and and Mark's doing does the same drill,
and I love it because the defense starts barking at
each other. They get mad, They're like, box him out.
I mean, it's just all this kind of stuff. And
and so we had this drill where I went to
the corner and defense got back and everyone started finding

(36:44):
man to close out on and Mark ran at me right,
and I had already hit like ten in a row, right,
So Mark's closing out on me. Boss rolled to me
and I launched one and before it's even halfway there,
he turns around to box me out. And I mean,
the ball is in flight and I and I because
he's turned around and boxing me out, I smacked him

(37:06):
on the rear end as hard as I can and
then say to my team captain, who could roll me
into a pretzel with one finger, because remember he was
one of the strongest dudes on the team. I say
to him, oh my god, and splash and I swear
to you the moment. I lost myself in that moment,

(37:29):
in my arrogance, because I literally the next thought I
had was what did I just do? He's going He's
gonna kill me. He is God, because they had been
in the whole the whole defensive team were so angry
at each other. It was so frustrated. We're so barking
at each other. And now I've woken the real bear, right,

(37:50):
and so I'm thinking, Okay, this is gonna be the
first punch in your life. Handle it like a man. Wow,
don't duck?

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Had he ever punched anybody in And he didn't even
say anything to me.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
He walked away like he was frustrated, but he wasn't
mad at me. It's like and that's just just Mark anyway.
But listening to Mark say we failed this year, I
got chills, yeah, because I'm like, look, it is a
logical to expect one every year. However, that is the
expectations of the fans. They're not going to win one
every year. But when you have a coaching staff that

(38:25):
says we fail unless we win the national championship, and
that is their sincere thought. And I think we all
saw that in that press coneence when Mark said, what
are you talking about? We failed last year.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
We'll pick it up on the other side of the raak.
We're talking with Cameron Mills here in the garage. Kentucky
basketball not that far away. I know football is coming
as well. Yes, yes, yes, we will have plenty of
opportunities to talk football.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
I don't need to speak on that.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Cameron's here in the garage. We'll talk more hoops and
we'll talk about Cameron living in a house for a
guy didn't read. He's living with people to write books.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
But they write children's books. I can read.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
You can still wait about right. You're on six thirty
wol Welcome back to the Big Blue Sider. I renumber

(40:57):
two of our show here in the garage with Cameron Mills,
and if you're just joining us, you're going to need
to go to the podcast version to hear our deep
dive on coldbrew, coffee and doughnuts and our number one
for two different segments.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
Yeah, oh yeah, but this is the dream show you
and I talked about all the time. Let's do thirty
minutes on sports and just nonsense that matters to us
for the next hour and a half.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Silliness, as we say, but as advertised, we are talking basketball.
We talked prior to the break about Mark Pope and
what's expected each and every year. But of course, the
day he was introduced, as they had coach, he said,
we know the assignment, but you mentioned Rick Patino and
it's it's just I think it began to turn UK fans.

(41:46):
I don't know if they fully wrapped their arms back
around Rick Pattino or not, but they were anybody who
might have been on the fence about him and Mark Pope,
and I'm talking about Kentucky fans. When Patino released that
video on I don't remember what social media.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Plans I think it was. I think it was Twitter.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
Basically endorsing Mark Pope. The way he did it, I think, well,
that kicked the door open.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
Well, here's what it definitely did. I think because he
had he had already Look if he had just left Louisville. Yeah, Look,
regardless of what happened there, you cannot argue with the
fact that everywhere he's been, with the exception of the
Boston Celtics, he has succeeded, massively succeeded. Okay, he got
Louisville championship. He got us a championship, He made the

(42:35):
Knicks relevant again, set took Providence to the final four.
Except there there you go. I don't remember the next
thing because I didn't know he was before he got
to Kentucky. Right, And and now where's Saint John's been
for the last thirty years, Dick? And now they're they're
the top. It's the third. I mean, he's just the.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
Pick, the sharpie pick to get to the final four
and maybe win at.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
This last they and they should have been because and
that that's what I'm saying, is that regardless of the
off the court stuff, what no one can deny, right,
and I'm talking about national media, right, who shouldn't have
to say it one way or the other. But what
they're all what they all said about coach, and they've
always he succeeded everywhere he's been, so he knows what

(43:25):
he's talking about. Yes, yes, I mean, look that being
another one.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
You know why he failed with Boston?

Speaker 2 (43:32):
Oh yeah, in my opinion, President and coach, yes he was.
He would not give guys a chance he wanted because look,
and I'll put and you know this, So this morning,
a friend of mine who may not and for no reason,
but may not feel comfortable to me sharing his name.
But you and I just talked about him. He is
in the business of basketball, meaning especially I mean, he

(43:55):
knows his stuff, works for a national uh what site
that that everybody's familiar with, So he sends and he
and I talk all the time about because he teaches
me about analytics because I know very little about like
what the heck is this acronym?

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Right?

Speaker 2 (44:10):
Why does this matter? So he's he teaches me all
this stuff. So he sends me out of glue. I've
talked to him in like two months, sends me out
of the blue. And I don't know if you remember
that picture. Do you remember that press conference?

Speaker 1 (44:20):
I was there. Okay, you're showing me a picture of Patino,
thank you being introduced as the UK.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
And do you remember what he said? Because I do,
and I remember it in the moment, even though one
there I remember seeing it probably on on Channel twenty seven.
Are going to be No, Well, yeah, I'm sure he
said that. But here's what I remember. He's taking the
mic and he's just been introduced by CM and he says, whatever,
whatever or whatever, we're going to win and we're going

(44:47):
to win immediately, and so that that is that this
little part. And so my friend sends me this and goes,
he seems terrifying here, I texted you back. I said,
what do you mean here? I said, he is terrifying.
He is an absolute sociopath, but also the greatest basketball

(45:08):
coach ever, and I love him for everything. And then
he goes Mark, and this is interesting. Mark seems traumatized
by him. He always chuckles before he talks about him.
He does, and I said, we all are traumatized still,
I said, I'm not kidding. I said, there is an absolutely,
there is absolutely some PTSD with us all. I said,

(45:33):
it wasn't funny then it is now. And I said,
by the way, watch the first forty seven minutes of
Full Metal Jacket and find out what I'm talking about.
Oh my gosh, I've told you that.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
That is.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
I cannot explain to people more accurately or more quickly
what it was like playing for Coachatino didn't to say,
watch the first forty seven minutes.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
If you haven't seen a movie, you camp the boot
camp and and Lee ORMI LEI the drill sergeant, the
d I terrorizes terrorized.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
And it is. It is both kids cathartic and PTSD
inducing watching.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
That, and in real life, that's what he did in.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
The Army, and he was a ar the Army.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
He was a consult love the story film and he.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
They brought in an actor and He's like, let me
show how to do it, and then he would do
it and then and the director was like, why do
we have an actor? This is this is brilliant, And
then Arley got into acting. I mean I always faked that,
but in that movie, in his element and in that movie, look,
I'm not this is just slide exaggeration here, because clearly
they were preparing for war and we were preparing for Syracuse.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
And his character as a tragic end in the.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
Movie, yes, it does, because he had abused one of
his one of his recruits to the point and that
that recruit, by the way, I love that transition from
Pyle right the private his transition during boot camp from
week yeah to strength.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
To insane yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
I mean, well, I I.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
Guess maybe that's a little overboard talk about Patino, but
I mean let me talk. And again, you don't read,
but for those of you out there who do, and
some of you out there might have read a book well,
When Pride Mattered, When Pride Mattered. It's a book about
the green Bay Packers and Vince Lambar.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
You want to talk about green Bay?

Speaker 1 (47:22):
Written written by David Marenis, Polleterprize winning author. His son
Andrew wrote a tremendous book about Perry Wallace, first black
player in then cec anyhow football basketball? Uh football? For
David marenth the Packers. You don't know who Perry Wallace is.

(47:42):
I know whom I am going to lecture you like
you wouldn't believe after we get.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Off you always do. That's good.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah, they expand yours. It does your horizons anyway. In
the Packers book, the guys and I've just read articles
about this as well. After they were done playing for
Vince Lambar, if they were in a social setting and
Lombardi showed up, they would quickly put out their cigarettes
and hide their cocktails and stand up straight and make

(48:11):
sure their shirts were touched in it. And I'm reading
that book and I'm like, that's Beatino.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
It's so the same thing. We are absolute. I mean,
we are oh my gosh, so because you know, when
we played Saint John's this year. I don't know if
you know this, and I don't know if it's announce
or not, but Mark has reached out to all that. Wait,
I mean the entire ninety We have a reunion in
Atlanta are sixteen. Now that may not be public knowledge.
Maybe I shouldn't say anything, but it would eventually come out.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
It's just for the guys though, right, Yeah, yeah, I don't.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
I don't think we're gonna do anything public, but it's
gonna be. It's gonna be. It's going to be the
entire ninety sixteen and Coach Pete right and and I'm
I'm it was going to turn into now when we
had our reunion a few years ago that you went to, right,
that whole thing was exactly what you were talking about
because we had never seen him laid back. That's not no,

(49:12):
who is this guy? I mean we were I remember
walking on that boat, right, yeah, because you all were there,
You and Jason were there. Yeah, you all were getting
the documentary footage and I walked on that boat. And
I'm trying to be I'm trying to put cool, trying
to relaxed chills. Reunion. We're in South beach or Miami,
wherever we were. We're getting on a freaking yacht. I mean,
come on, you know, just strut a little bit. You're good,

(49:34):
You're right right now, I'm missyching myself up to see
the coach. There has no power over me anymore. He
cannot make me run. But it what surprised me if
you told me to Yeah, yeah, I do it. Are
you kidding me? Listen? I will tell you how hard
it is to play for this man. I will tell
you that the way he coached there was a level,

(49:57):
a level please hear me carefully, folks, level of emotional
and mental abuse, especially if you define abuse the way
a lot of people define abuse this way with these days,
which is anything less than nurturing. Well, shoot, then everybody's
abused everybody at that point. But there is a level
of that with him. I mean there are psychological mind games.

(50:21):
I was terrified of him. I knew that I owe
him everything and adore him now and even if he
was still because he relaxed towards us, but we're still
uncomfortable around him, like we do not want to because
back then, if you stepped out, if he saw you
out of the fruitful vision. He yelled at his wife

(50:43):
and our female adult trainer and kicked him out of
practice one day. I mean it just he's so intense
that when he's non intense, you're like, I feel like
I'm in the twilight zone. I don't know what to do.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
And yet Mark Pope, a successful protege, is not like that.
But he might interesting, but he might have been. We'll
talk about that on the other side of the break
with Cameron Mills here in the garage on six thirty
w LP Welcome back, Dick Gabriel in garage with Cameron
Mills here on a big boone side. Or We've been
talking about Mark Polk Kentucky basketball. We've talked about Rick

(51:16):
Patino and his coaching style.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
Can I finish real quick, real quick? I promise. I
just want to make sure everyone understands when I talk
about him this way, and when we as a team
about Patino, I hope everyone understands that the toughest period
of my life, maybe it made me one or to
I mean literally the toughest. I mean I almost I

(51:40):
had moments, never suicidal, by the way, to be clear,
but it got to the point where and I've told
you this before privately, I maybe even said on your
show for where my freshman year in particular was so
hard making the adjustment to him that there were times
where I had these thoughts, just thoughts, right, and they
never went further than that, and I never would have
done it. But that's these thoughts of you know, crossing

(52:01):
Harrisburg Rove News Circle on my way home to get
soulis from my mom because Dad wouldn't give it to me,
because he just told me eight off rough stories where
I'd like, you know, I could just run my car
into this bridge and bugment, maybe just break my legs,
and then I would have to play. Oh it was it?
Listen it was that bad.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
But there are more lessons, more growth even to this
day that I learned from that man. And this is
what I will never ever be more thankful for is
that he always coached me the way he coached his
all Americans that he had no reason to. He told
me when I was in his office and he said

(52:39):
I could walk on, He said, are you sure, because
you're never going to play here. But then he never
coached me like I was never going to play here.
He coached me like you better get together son, because
I need you. But he never never said that to me.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
But he couldn't because if he was soft on you,
what would that mean to the other guys? How would
that affect the other players?

Speaker 2 (52:57):
I don't think it would have because I was a
walk on junior year. May be different because I was
now in scholarship and I and I hadn't earned that scholarship.
Remember that scholarship was just there for some reason, and
I still did this day. Don't understand why was it there,
but he gave it to me. And by the way, again,
it wasn't one of these magical moments you see on
video all the time of you know, the walk on
getting his scholarship, the coach announce again, everyone going crazy, No, no, no, no, no.

(53:20):
I heard it from his secretary because that's who he is.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
So there wasn't a fake phone, wasn't a meeting room.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
You know, it was a casual conversation where Martin mcmackett said, Hey,
I think I think coach is going to give you
a scholarship.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Like no music, no soundtracks.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
That's nice, that's you know, I'm getting excited. I'm calling
him mom and dad. And then next thing. I know,
I've got a scholarship, But there was never I mean,
he never told me.

Speaker 3 (53:47):
No.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
See, that's something Mark Pope would do. I think, oh absolutely,
Although with the new house settlement, I don't think they're
gonna be able to do that kind of stuff anymore.
But that's the new one there. I'll explain it to you, okay.
But as we show, Yeah, Mark Pope admitted that early
in his coaching career he tried to be more of

(54:08):
a hard ass. He tried to be more you know,
he'll never be Rick Bettino, but that style, yep, and
he realized that's not me.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
I think he realized that's not him, because it's definitely
not him. But I think he also realized and I
think I think this was part of this is part
of the story. He realized that and look, there's a
part of me that's an old buddy dud that's like
as hard as that was for us, every kid needs that, right,
Every young man needs to be coached that way because

(54:38):
not only will he, you know, will he make you
feel like he hates you. Will he make you feel
like you are absolutely trash to him when you learn
as it takes about a year in my case, to
learn that no, he actually loves you. And this is
the definition, not the only definition, but this is a
definition of tough love.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
Why is Pope's successful now because he's professor positive in
these practices.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
Well, you've been to many, many practices, but the expectations
haven't changed. True, So what he's done is more, I
would say of a Tubby way of doing it, where
Tubby was still I mean, look the drop off of
intensity from the not missing a single thing or not

(55:23):
letting anything slide by as coach Coach P. Nothing slid by, right, nothing.
If it was a slight failure, it was a complete
failure and it better be fixed in the next five minutes. Right.
Tubby was a little more relaxed. Right, we went from
forty page scouting reports to one page front and back. Right.
But Tubby's ability for us to and I've said this before,

(55:47):
we played hard for Coach P because we were afraid
not to. We played hard for Tubby because we loved him. Now,
forty nine years old, I had the best of both worlds. Right.
I had a man that I hated in the moment,
but that I owe everything too, because again, he never
treated me as though I was not an All American.

(56:08):
He never coached me as though he treated all of
us like we were walk offs. But he never coached
me like I was anything underwalk an All American mark.
I think, and this is what I was saying about
kids these days, because I think I just don't know
that you can because I think coaches relax. I don't think.
I know Coach is still hard on his Saint John's players.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
Well, you could see on the TV show. I don't
know if you watched it, but I guarantee you it's
not the same as Saint John's as it was.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
At Kentucky, and it was not the same in his
fourth year as it was his first year. Because I've
heard from I've heard from Richie, I've heard from John,
I've heard from Darren, I've heard from Mash, I've heard
from I mean, you talked to Sean, you talked to
all these guys that were there in the first year.
Oh yeah, and they're like, I mean, they would come
to our practices and when the practice was over, the

(56:58):
heck was that? Which is what we do? When you know,
like when I went when Coach was at Louisville and
I went to see a Louisville practice, I'm like, what
the heck is this? And I generally wanted to stand up,
like in the middle of his practice, which wouldn't have
done That would have been the stupid thing to do,
but stand up and saying what is this? Do you
want to fail here?

Speaker 1 (57:18):
I told Sean Woods's story real quick. Uh, Louisville won
an NCA tournament game in rupp Arena the same year
that Gillispie's and MT oh yeah, and Sean I bumped
into Shawn. He said, yeah, I'm gonna go back to
the locker room and say, hey, coach P I haven't
seen him in a while. And so we go into
the Louisvill locker room. I'm back there doing interviews and
uh and Beatino. Actually I had just shaved my beard off.

(57:40):
He actually recognized me where most people didn't. But anyhow,
he said a load to me. I'm like, oh, okay, hey, coach.
Well Sewn at one point was nearby a UFL player
and the player hollered across the locker room. They had won,
and the player yet, hey, coach, what time is the
bus leaving? And Sean said he ducked Sean ducked. Sean

(58:01):
wins like, Oh, this guy's about this guy's about to
get it. I know what's gonna happen. I feel so
bad for this kid. Oh, this is gonna be embarrassing.
But Rick Patino said about fifteen minutes. Oh but and
Sean looked up and thought, what is going on?

Speaker 2 (58:17):
Where eld is this? Sean did not feel bad for
that kid. Sean was getting ready to enjoy what was coming.
Because it happened to Sean a thousand times.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
I wonder now, I wonder because he's been there. We've
seen video of Rick Patino at Mark Pope practices. Yeah,
what must he think of the way Mark Pope coaches?

Speaker 2 (58:36):
Now, well again, coach p doesn't coach the same way.
And I've not seen I've not seen one of his practices. Recently.
A TV show, I don't even know what TV showre
you talking about?

Speaker 1 (58:48):
Netflix documentary.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
I've been watching Archer. What's what's it called? Listen? My
wife and I on date Night we are watching stand
up comedians. That's what we watch. So what is the show?

Speaker 1 (58:56):
It's it's a documentary series.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
I don't like documentaries.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
Please move along. Even though you and I produced three
award winning documents.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
Award winning, Yes, Emmy nominated one of them anyway, But
what's the name? But what is it the documentary?

Speaker 1 (59:14):
I can't even remember. Oh my gosh, it's been so
long since I watched.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
So it's on Netflix. Though. Is it about Saint John's
about Coach P? Is it where that one clip came
from him? Him in the locker room? Yes, if we
talked about that, I got sent that. We all did, actually,
because we talked about it when we were at one
of the games, all the a bunch of Moiren players
that played for P. We were all like, did you
did do.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
You call it Red Storm Rising?

Speaker 2 (59:36):
Oh gosh, did you did you? Did you get that?

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (59:40):
No, no, no, no, no, no no no, I'm saying this is
what people, all of us. God sent that clip and
everybody and I got it from twenty people the same
clip because I didn't know what they were induced. And
their question was the same, is he really like this?
And I'm like, no, this is not him, this is
lovable Coach P. And yet you listen to what he's saying,

(01:00:02):
and that's what he says in that in that little clip.
And now I have to watch the documentary because it's
gonna be again across between PTSD and absolute joy is.
You sit there and you're like, you'll hear what he's saying.
This is what we all need.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Yeah, suck it up.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
Yeah, get over your mistake. Now. The problem with that
is it doesn't sound like he's over your mistake yet.
But you have to get over it. And that was
the big lesson is that, Hey, I'm gonna yell at you,
I'm going to undress you right in front of all
your teammates. You better correct his mistake. And the moment
he's done correcting you, he's done. He has no doghouse.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
All of that said, yeah, what do you think of
the way and I know he's your boy, but what
do you think of the way Mark Pope coaches his
team compared to the way Rick Patino coach.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Here's what I think Mark does that I think a
lot of people miss and I think I don't know this.
I just I just think I've seen these moments and
I'm I'm imagining what he will. He coaches right, he
doesn't cuss, obviously, he doesn't rant and rave. He is
the antithesis of coaching style from coach Fatinau as far

(01:01:12):
as approaching the the what was always incorrectly named the
student athlete and so, but he he has these moments
where he's first practice, I was at all right, and
I told you this. I think they're running right because
first this hell week, right, first practice, this is the

(01:01:32):
morning after madness. Even though I think they were actually
practicing for that, they're running right. I mean they were
doing these hard drills and then they're running. And that's
that's what's similar, right, Mark Mark's expectations for conditioning same
as coach Piece. And I don't think many people understand
how and why that matters so much. Even though whether
you're pressing for forty minutes or not, last five minutes

(01:01:54):
of the game, who has the legs and you can
accomplish the same thing we were doing back then in
forty minutes full of court, you accomplish that half court.
You can wear teams out and and that, and again
it's back to most of the time, the team that
wins the game is not necessarily the team that's the
most talented. It's the team that has the legs in
the last five minutes who's gonna finish the game. Because
it's not just the physical fatigue, it's the mental fatigue.

(01:02:16):
So Marcus at these moments though, where well in that practice,
they're running and Brandon Garrison and and I think I
only feel safe saying this because Brandon Garrison. You know,
Marcus is very protective of his players, right, very protective
of his players. And Brandon they were running and Brandon
threw up, and again I'm sitting there like, darn straight,

(01:02:37):
this is this is practice. I am at practice now,
this is what it should be. And so he throws up,
and managers come about cleaned up, and he winds up
thrown up again. It's just it's I know it sounds cruel,
but there's so much joy in my heart when I
see stuff like this. And so Brandon throws up again,

(01:02:59):
and Mark is pacing, and it just went They're just
running sprints right into practice kind of stuff. And he
comes up to me and he puts his head on
my shoulder like I'm standing like I'm gonna realize, say,
puts it on my shoulder. He goes, you know, I
don't know if you feel kept with me sharing this.
He basically, he basically was concerned about the conditioning of
his team and I'm like, Mark, this is day one.

(01:03:22):
We were worse than this on day one. He's like,
were we? I said, look, you weren't you weren't You
weren't unless you had a barbecue sandwich for lunch and
then threw up in your jersey. I said, but did
We were all throwing up. All of us were struggling
on that. We were struggling on day ten, I said,

(01:03:43):
I said, do you remember the first day of practice,
us walking out together and me as freshman? And you
was like, you know, I think you were He was
a junior and me, I mean terrified after that practice
because that was the day after Madus and saying hey, hey, hey, hey, Mark,
is that about as bad as it be? And he
thought about it. I was hoping he would saying, oh yeah,

(01:04:04):
oh that was horrible. No, no, he thought about it.
He goes, mm, yeah, that's about as rough as it'll be.
And he was not right at all. But Mark's way
of doing it is he will put an arm around
the kid and he will talk to them with more
kindness but the same amount of expectation.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
And I think that's what people don't see who are
looking at this contrast, because that's just you. I mean,
everyone knows this at this point. Mark is just He's
almost loving, caring people you'll ever meet.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
We'll take a break, come back and talk more Kentucky
basketball with Cameron Mills here in the garage on six
thirty WLAP Welcome Back, Final segment with Cameron Mills here
in the garage. Of course we're talking Kentucky basketball. And
you know, we've been talking about how tough the Patino
was in you guys in Pope style. Maybe next time
we'll talk about the portal and things like that. But

(01:05:01):
what I wanted to ask you, and this is kind
of about the portal when you walked in. We talked
about Pope putting a team together for this year, and
you believe he crushed it. And where I agree with you,
because because he's got to me a perfect we'll find
out on paper blend of incoming freshmen, the guys he

(01:05:23):
has signed, the returning guys minus Travis Perry. You hate
to see that, but you know, do what you gotta do.
What you got to do.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
That hurt, yeah, uh.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
And then the guys coming through the portal. You know,
the jigsaw puzzle he's put together. You can understand. I
think Kentucky fans might have even higher expectations now they
last year.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
Yeah, sure, they absolutely, because I think last year, as
we were talking about earlier, last year's expectations were somewhat
tempered because, like, like you were asked earlier about patinos
first year, how many games you think we're gonna win?
I got asked that question a thousand times last year,
and all I said was, I don't know, but I
honestly think it'll be more than we're thinking it will be.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
I thought, get to the second weekend and you're good
that they did, and yet they maybe should have.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
Gone from Damien Fishback asked, asked me that like before
a game, like he was prepping to do uh for
ESPN SEC network. Yeah, So Damien came up and he's like,
hey man, and this is like two thirds away through
the season. He's like, hey man, listen honestly, he goes,
I'm kind of putting together some stuff for the for
the show he goes, or for the broadcast. He goes,
what's Honestly? UK fans like, what is a realistic? But

(01:06:34):
I mean, what's what is success this year? You should
what they've done now, right, beyond what like, what will
the fans? And that was just that's what he wanted
to know. What will the fans? Deem as, Okay, we
got the right coach, how how far do they have
to go? And Deb and I both said Ded Moore
sid for for UK basketball. Deb and I were standing

(01:06:56):
there and he was asking us both because he thought, okay,
well you live in like Centon, you got some idea
of the you know what the fans are thinking. And
we looked at each other and we both simultaneously said
sweet sixteen. And because I felt like that was fair,
that wasn't illogical. I think we could have gone further
and or and I thought that at the time, but yeah,

(01:07:18):
I think that was that was realistic this year and
again going back to get what Mark said, we failed,
which that is not what he's telling his players right
to a degree, but he's not saying it like that.
He's making a point that, look, I know the assignment
and this is not a a B C, D E
F class. This is a past fail. We didn't win

(01:07:42):
it all, therefore fail, and that is that is truly
how how he's got to think about it. And I
think genuinely thinks about it, because that's the way the
fans think about it, and that is the expectation at
this school. You don't you don't hang eight banners and
you don't have and I think this is the more key.
You don't go through the lulls that Indiana has gone through,

(01:08:03):
that UCLA has gone through, that all that that North
Carolina has gone through. That maybe, with exception of Duke,
Duke might be the only other school, the blue blood,
the blue blood, right, the blue blood schools that has
not gone through a lull right, I mean that that
like where Okay, what is going on at such and
such basketball? Well, we had two years of that with Gillespie.

(01:08:24):
Actually really one year is the second year that was
that was the one. But we've not had that we
I mean every coach we've had, with exception of Gillespie,
every coach we've had.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
The end of the Eddie Suddon era was not fun.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
No, no, no, what I'm saying is okay, and Eddie
Sutton would be the other one then gillespiean Eddie Sutton,
every other coach we've had has won a national championship. Yeah,
I mean rup and beyond, I mean, I don't know
if anyone remembers any of the coaches before. But they're
like fifty of them. But that's the expectation. That's what
Mark thinks, it says, and that's you know, I mean,
And and what's amazing means he goes out and he

(01:08:58):
puts together this team, and I love watching and I
get I get into it too. As far as like,
we've not signed anybody yet. The portal has been open
for a day. Why don't we sign anybody yet? And
it's like he, I cannot, it's so hard to explain.
And you've you've probably seen it up too. But again,
like I said about coach p and again here's a

(01:09:19):
similarity between two of them. There are no missed details
under Rick Patino when it comes to running his team,
there really aren't. There are no missed details under Mark
Pope when it comes to running his team, that staff.
And he said this, He goes, we're gonna be better
as a staff this year than we were last year.
And that I don't think. I don't think fans have

(01:09:40):
quite grasped that concept of how important that is. Of Hey,
I thought that was really interesting. These guys, Yeah, these guys, look,
I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
They didn't come as a complete unit.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
No, they can't, right, well, one did, but Cody and
then the rest of them. He went out and and look,
all right, as he would with anything, who were who
psychologically emotionally, who are gonna be the fits? And then
who are the guys that I need they're gonna be
able to teach? And then who are the guys that
I need they're gonna be able to recruit? And you

(01:10:12):
know what, he went out and find the best. Okay,
what I find funny, interesting and just unfair right now,
even though I love the portal, I don't love the
portal as it is because we can't have guys playing
one I mean five years, five teams. No, I mean, look,
the whole point of the portal was it's unfair for
coaches to leave after they promised the kid and their

(01:10:32):
mother I'm gonna be here and take care of the baby.
Right well, I don't think they lie to do a
fair enough, but that wasn't fair, And it wasn't fair
to punish the kids only for leaving, because the coach
never gets punished for leaving early. It's not Yeah, I
get it, somebody's paying to buy out, but he's not
paying the buy out. So they went to the pendulum
swung way too far, and now we got to swing

(01:10:52):
it back to all right, you get one free transfer,
no pennalum. But then we're gonna have to suck it
up and learn how to play the team that we're on,
because that's the part that I'm like. And again, old
fuddy dud forty nine year old here sitting there saying,
there's there's no there's no friction. Now you don't get
I'm not gonna get. I'm not gonna get played on.
I'm gonna go somewhere else, sit here and earn your

(01:11:15):
playing time. And I look, I say that as someone
who did it right and I and I understand that,
and I understand that not everybody got to, but I
got to not because I'm a hard worker, biggest Yeah,
that is it is definitely a big key. But it
wasn't just that. It was that I didn't have another
option because of who my coach was. You will improve

(01:11:37):
or you will die. I am no, I'm not kidding.
It's it's Cramer in in the in the Jimmy Shoes episode. Right,
they're plyometric, blometric. The muscle has to grow or it'll die.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
That is playing for scientist, always, always, always.

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
The Bible and Seinfeld that that that solves life. People.

Speaker 1 (01:11:56):
You're you're guiding lights. Oh man, I promised you. And
that's one of the reasons I wanted to talk to
you because I appreciate that your wife is a published author.

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
Children Award winning a New National Award for one of
her books. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
Nice. And now your stepson has written a book so good. Well,
I was going to say, he's an interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
Kid, eleven year old on the autism spect.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
On the spectrum, and how did this happen?

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
So he and Susan he is always it's difficult for him,
and this is part of autism, is is it's the
social aspect. A lot of times, right, A lot of
them are brilliant, I mean absolutely brilliant. And he's terrifying
in a sense.

Speaker 4 (01:12:43):
That let me interrupt you. I'm watching another documentary series
on Netflix about horse racing and one of the most
successful owners who had a horse in the Derby this year,
was describing himself and he said, he says, I'm autistic,
you know, and you would never know any incredibly successful

(01:13:03):
businessman and has got great horses.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
Well and The thing about autism in general is it's
called a spectrum because there are so many extra Susans
said this to me one time that I thought and
she had heard of somewhere else, but it was It
makes so much sense now that I'm five years into
knowing Alex, and that is that once you've met a
person with autism spectrum disorder, you have met one person

(01:13:26):
with autism spectrum disorder. You cannot lump these people in.
Because Alex is I think gonna be I mean, he's
gonna be a he is special needs. He's got special
needs educator at his school and will next year in
middle school. But he's with him an hour a day.
The rest time he's in the classroom, and he thrives,
and he thrives socially, and he thrives me. Now, look,

(01:13:48):
he's still he doesn't always fit in.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
He's a little shy.

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
Well yes, but he's not. He's actually I'll give you
for example. So the book, all right, So this came
out because Susan. Name of the book, name of the
book is Chuckles, the Cheese and the Midnight Thief. All right,
So this this book, Susan, and she does it better
than I do obviously, but she's always trying to draw
more out of him, right, because again it's not that

(01:14:16):
he's shy, it's that he's seemingly uninterested. So he's not though,
and he also it's tough for him. And look, I
get this. I as talkative as I am. There's times when,
like even Susan will say, so, how was and so
it's fine, you know, I mean, and I've done that
since a kid. We're also doing the same thing. So

(01:14:39):
Susan tries to draw him out, asking questions, how was school?
But then she's she knows detailed questions do that yes, yes, yes,
and and that's and that and that's another one. That's
another thing that makes Alex and I would assume to
many other parents, and in my case, stepparents who have

(01:15:00):
children on the spectrum, is that all right? Especially when
it's your only child? Yeah, and this is Susan's only
child and my only my only and his father's only child.
How do you if you don't be experience raising another child,
how do you differentiate between Okay, this is the authorism
or is this just being eleven? Right? So you don't know?
And but anyway, so Susan they were in the car.

(01:15:22):
They were going somewhere, and Susan was trying to just
as she calls, stretch him, which again is just a
brilliant because again, I mean, we all need people in
our lives stretching us. And Susan is very intentional about
stretching Alex. And so she's getting the car and she
they do this thing sometimes where she's like, if he's
not talkative, she goes, let's make up a story. And

(01:15:45):
so Susan, who has got who lived in Los Angeles,
who has got improv training from Upright Citizens Brigade, I
mean she has been through I mean, I mean like
top level improv training in LA which I know a
lot of people do that that are in that world.
But he's the coolest thing about my wife, she was
and uc B. So anyway, so Susan, she's she's basically

(01:16:09):
without him knowing, she's teaching him how to yes and right.
So yeah, so she's like, Okay, what's the lead character's name, Alex?
Thanks for two seconds, chuckles the cheese, and off we go.
And so in the next twenty minutes he tells this story.

(01:16:31):
I mean, she's not prompting anymore in that because he
loves this, he loves puppets, he loves acting out scenes.
He and Susan a year into her marriage, they recorded
a short film about a superhero that included Henry My
Mike Gon Retriever who's since been had to put down.
But so Susan decided that she took the story and

(01:16:54):
she wrote it down right and then. And I didn't
know she was doing that. I just had heard about
the story and kind of dismissed it in the sense of, well,
it's one of your many stories that Alex has come
up with, and yet this one. All of a sudden,
she goes down to her office every day and I
think she's working on her next book, and she is,

(01:17:15):
but it's not in the Dino Sprout series. It's not
one of the it's not one of the ones you
know her the series she's been working on. It's I
go down and I look at I'm like, what is
this like? Because this book doesn't look like she illustrated this.
It doesn't look like any of her other books. And
what I love about this book is that what she
did is she took photographs and drew and drew with them,
so like there's that's a photograph of human beings leg

(01:17:37):
but she drew the pajama bottoms and the slippers on them,
and it's the whole kind of illustrative theme of the book.
But it's just a silly book about a cheese and
a watermelon and a potato and a carrot who all
come to life at night and somebody's having midnight snacky
feelings and they come in and the vegetables and the
cheese are all worried. I think about who's going to

(01:17:59):
be eating. I don't even know the full story of
the book. But as you read the book as much
as you too long. It's too long for me, except
it's too long. It's not a pamphlets thirty two pages,
all right, all right, so yes, I've read the book.
Note well it's been read to me. But anyway, so
but Alex, and this is what I love, but it
goes back out so it says, right, story h Alex Scott.

(01:18:22):
Illustrations by Susan Scott Mills. What I love about this, though,
is so we ordered everyone in the family ordered one.
It's on Amazon, by the way, folks. Chuckles and Cheese
and the Midnight Thief, and it's a children's book, right,
I'd say five, six, seven, eight year old, maybe even me.
So we get the actual first copy, first edition of
the book in the household. Alx comes home from school,

(01:18:45):
Susan and I are ecstatic to show him his book.
He is an author, right, in the same sense that
I'm an author, because I did thirteen hours of interview
and brooks down he turned into a book, right, And
this is perfectly described. Alex look at this and he
knows it's coming all right. She's told him. She's actually

(01:19:05):
shown him on the TV and she's flipped through in
red jet. But this is the actual physical book. This
is it, buddy, you were in I mean the Library
of Congress. Yes, So we show him this. He's on
the couch, he's just get on from school. That's his
that's his space out time. He's on the couch, he's
on his iPad. And I said, Alex, look, he looks

(01:19:28):
up and sees his book and goes yeah. And that
is him to a t. He's not shy, and he's
not that it's something he's not disinterested. It's that his
safe place is many times on his iPad. But then
sometimes the safe place is making up silly stories with
his mom and it's just so cool.

Speaker 1 (01:19:49):
Happy for him, happy for you, happy for your wife.
Thanks for dropping by as always, are we done, are doing?
It's so much more to say next time, Next time,
come back and wrap it up on thirty comany lap
that'll do it for now. Time only to say thanks
to camera Milster dropping by, and please check out the
book if you would. You can find it on Amazon.
That's it. Good night from the garage and Lexington.

Speaker 2 (01:20:13):
Another wind for the greatest bye unearthed Lana wind toast.
It's nine o'clock in the morning. Yeah, and champagne is
like the breakfast of alcohol.

Speaker 3 (01:21:02):
Tactpen Anything donnything can anything to annatt stect that anything

(01:21:41):
can canamatten control conto.