2025-07-15 - BBI

The Best of the BBI with Matt Norlander of CBSSports.com, ex-Cat Danny Trevathan, Unforgettable guard Sean Woods and David Sisk of Rivals.com...

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's stick Gabriel taking a little bit of time off,
so we thought we would replace some of the best
interviews from over the last several months. Please enjoy the
best of the Big Blue Insider joining us now on
our celebrity hotline. Guy who's new to the show. I've
quoted his work more than once. I'm a big fan
of Matt Norlander of cbssports dot com and he covers

(00:22):
a lot of different things. He as a senior writer, analyst,
and a podcast host. And Matt the reason I reached out,
As I told you in my text message, you are
doing God's work and throwing yourself in front of the
notion that the NCAA tournament should be expanded. I've been
banging on this drum ever since I heard about the
potential so of you, a guy who's a frequent guest

(00:46):
of my show, Mike. The course he has this is
just nuts, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (00:53):
Thanks T having me on.

Speaker 4 (00:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
I actually texted with the course on Monday. I said
we might need to just throw one more one more
sallo too, So maybe maybe he's got time to fire
off one more columns too, because we should have some
sort of decision in some sorts I think this week,
but yeah, listen, you know, broadly speaking, this topic of

(01:16):
NAA tournament expansion has been a discussion, a sporadic one,
any regular one, but nonetheless a looming presence in college
athletics for more than three years at this point. And
if people are wondering why we're here, there was a
commission on College Sports that was formed by the former
well it was asked to be formed by the former

(01:38):
president of the NAA, Mark Emmert. This was requested in
twenty twenty one. It was eventually built out, and then
over the course of more than a year, really close
to two years, a bunch of people from around college
athletics looked at a ton of different things with the
nc of LA and Okay, how can we make the
enterprise better? What's working, what isn't? How are we going
to prepare for the potential that we might have to

(01:58):
pay our student athletes, which is now obviously a reality
that has arrived. And within all of that, one of
the recommendations was that every NCAA Division I sport examine
its championships. All right, are the teams involved? Number, is
it good? What's the qualifications? And so from that, one
of the recommendations was for every sport to explore It

(02:20):
wasn't a mandate, but it was to explore the potential
to alter the size of its championship fields by as
much as I don't have it in front of me,
and that it was either twenty or twenty two percent
of its population, so to speak.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
So in college.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
Basketball that number could have been as high as ninety
actually at its maximum, which was never on the table.
I remember when this story first, you know, started to
emerge a couple of years ago. There were a number
of people that thought that, you know, the greediest among
us would get their way and that the tournament would
expand in ninety six or ninety and I kept saying,

(02:57):
it's just not that's not going to happen. There are
many reasons why it won't get to that point, but
we're never going to get to that kind of level,
and we aren't. And then last year, a little more
than a year ago, the decision was made that the
tournament would either be sixty eight, seventy two or seventy
six teams. And so now for about thirteen months, powers

(03:19):
that be with Indian SOBLA have been looking at this
the feasibility and yeah, there's no need for the tournament
to expand. Obviously this is expansion is a very unpopular idea.
The reason why it's still out there is that you
have conference commissioners, you have in some cases at university presence,

(03:40):
I guess, but you have athletic directors and obviously coaches
who they just want more bids, they want more opportunity,
they want to get in, and they are not looking
at it from as from a viewpoint of the greater
good of the sport, which is if you have a
sixty eighteen tournament, that is that's sixty four is perfect.
That's fine, We'll live with sixty eight. It's more than enough.
You get every conference represented, you have everyone that has

(04:01):
a chance to qualify for the tournament through automatic bids
through conference tournaments. The setups I wrote in my column
for Monday, is a unique one in American sports, and
it is just big enough to include a lot of teams,
but still just quite competitive enough that the final couple
weeks of the regular season really do bring urgency value.

(04:22):
And the difference I'll shut up here in thirteen seconds,
the difference between the last that large team in the
sixty eight team field and the last a large team
in the seventy sixteen field. It actually is fairly drastic.
There's never been a year in which the selection committee
building out a field of sixty eight has had a

(04:42):
seventy six team roster of candidates to get in. They're
not teams that are good enough to qualify for national championship.
So long winded, but that's kind of where we are,
why we are here, and you are.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
So if there are levels of accuracy year so on
the money. One of my argum and says, you know,
if you add more teams, you're adding more mediocrity and
you're getting more mediocre games. You know, there are so
many ways this doesn't make sense. And you crunch numbers
and there's a link to your information on your Twitter

(05:14):
page about the fact that, yes, more schools are playing
D one basketball now, But that's not a good argument
for adding teams, right, correct.

Speaker 3 (05:25):
So I have a two part argument to this. The
first one I hadn't heard anyone say in the past
three years, and that is the size of Division one
is irrelevant. That entertains to how big the tournament is.
I you know, while you know Division one was never
this small. If Division One was only one hundred teams
in nineteen eighty five when they went to sixty four
and well over half of the Division One got it doesn't matter.

(05:47):
It's the size of the tournament. Sixty four is the
perfect number. It is six rounds. It's perfectly symmetrical, and
for a national basketball tournament across forty nine states, Alaska
being the only one without a Division one institution, sixty
four has been the perfect number. It's never been how
big sixty four is in relation to the size of
Division One overall. So there have been ninety one schools
that have joined Division One since the tournament went to

(06:10):
sixty four teams in nineteen eighty five, and there has
been the other part of the argument here on the
behalf of expansion lobbyists, low as their number may be,
but influential nonetheless they as they are still is that
those conferences are looking for increased access for teams that
they think are willing and deserving of having a chance

(06:34):
to crack in. And they use examples like UCLA getting
into the first four and twenty twenty one and making it.

Speaker 4 (06:38):
To the final four.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
Well, if so UCLA can get in that year and
make it all the way, Like, who's to say the
eleventh best team in this league shouldn't be able to
do it. But the access argument is deathn't the hold
wire man. Ninety one schools have joined D one since
nineteen eighty five, only one school out of more than
fourteen hundred at large. I'm not talking the automatic invites.

(07:01):
I'm talking to the teams that if you don't win
your conference tournament, you get in that large bid. There's
been more than fourteen hundred of those handed out. Only
once in forty years at the school new to D
one since eighty five gotten that large It was the
twenty nineteen UCF team. UCF went D one after eighty five,
that's it, and then even beyond that the schools. So

(07:22):
the argument is, okay, D one was smaller when eighty five,
when we went to sixty fourteen. Now we have so
many more teams competing to get into the tournament. All
those teams that have been added to the pool are
still competing for the same exact bids. They're they're not
taking any at large bids away from the power conferences,
from the big boys, from the high majors, just isn't happening.
So it's a false argument on its surface. And even
beyond that, those teams, those schools that have made the tournament,

(07:46):
only two of them haven't reached at least of sweet sixteen.
That's sau to the Final four awesome Cinerella story two
years ago and an FGCU Dunk City back in twenty thirteen.
It was the first fifteen to make the Sweet sixteen.
And then beyond that, at all, every single team that
joined D one since eighty five, every single one, they
have won nineteen total games in the round of sixty four.

(08:08):
Beyond nineteen total lot of more than twenty two hundred.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
It is.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
The idea that these schools, this expansion of Division one
has affected the access for high majors is complete nonsense.
And even beyond that, you can read the story at
cvsports dot com. The Power Conferences have accounted for essentially
eighty three percent of all at large bids over the
past ten tournaments period. So if we just went to

(08:34):
recent history and said, okay, what are the SEC, Big ten,
Big twelve, ACC, Big East, PAX twelve, how much have
they gotten for themselves, Well, it's more of them, It's
more than four of every five bids in the past
ten years alone, So their opportunities have only increased as
of late, and there's no real logic to suggest that
they deserve more.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
Playing devil's advocate, what about the argument that take fewer
of the teams from the middle of you know, the
eight and eight teams from the Power five or Power
four conferences, and maybe give more bids to those you know,
mid major so called conferences, that we might see things

(09:13):
level out a little bit. Do you buy that?

Speaker 3 (09:16):
So if your devil's advocate is like, Okay, let's say
we go to the seventy two or seventy six and
in that scenario, would we have more teams from outside
the Power conference crutch structure actually wind up getting invitations
to the NBA tournament. My answer to that is yes,
that would happen. The question is how many would it be.
What would we get on average there? If let's say
we went to a seventy sixteen tournament, which unfortunately I

(09:37):
do think is on the table. I think it's a
very very real possibility. I would say on average you'd
get I would be optimistic to think that three out
of those bonus eight bids would go to schools outside
what's now the Power five because the new PAC twelve
isn't really going to be a power conference, So you'd
have to go the PAC twelve in along with your

(09:57):
Missouri Valleys, your max your Ohio Valleys, Sun Belts, your
Big South, like I say, three out of those eighth
So would they be more represented? Sure? Is that worth
it for the expense of a diluted tournament. It's not.
And then the other thing that I try and bring
up every so often, and I hint at it in
the column, I actually think this does matter. I think

(10:18):
the visual presentation of what a bracket looks like when
you show it on a television screen, in a newspaper,
on a printed out piece of paper, the symmetrical nature
of it. You know, there are so many people that
only watch college basketball. When the Antelle tournament starts, they
see the bracket, they throw in ten bucks to join
their friends pool, their bosses pool, their coworker's pool, whatever. Right,
And it's very simple to understand. And the idea that

(10:40):
if you went to seventy six and now you'd have
these weird appendages, how does that format on a page
do you actually affect some of the entry level interest
with some people. When it comes to this, It's not
like the tournament's going to die. It's not even going
to come close to that. People are still going to
watch the games, but you are going to remove some
of the natural appeal and beauty of the bracket by

(11:02):
doing that. And so, you know, I wrote the column
one because I wanted to write it too, but I
had had some of the data in my back pocket
for a while and it was time to finally put
it out there. But I also hope that, you know,
some of the spirit and some of this stuff can
be in the room this week. You know, as we
speak right now this very moment, in Savannah, Georgia and
some hotel ballroom or something, the selection committee and select
members of the n so LA staff are there and

(11:23):
they're talking about a whole bunch of stuff. I mean,
you know, the NTELA Tournament expansion conversation is going to
be the most important thing. It might take up the
most time, but they've got, you know, they've got like
nearly a dozen agenda items that they're talking about. I
don't think the expansion stuff is going to be dug
into until probably tomorrow. I think, but hopefully this stuff
will you know, be brought up and people take real care,
real consideration, because no one's really asking for tournament expansion.

(11:45):
This is only being done because they've agreed by commissioners
and under the what I think is a false threat
that maybe someday one day, yeah, good power conferences could
break away and start their own tournament instead, I maintain
that is not going to happen. The threat of it
and the actual action of taking undertaking that kind of
evacuation of one of the most beloved American institutions would

(12:07):
would create maybe a downright mutiny, and I just don't
think that threat should be the thing triggers or pressure
as any sort of expansion of the tournament.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
We're talking to Matt Norlanders, senior writer, analysts podcaster for
CBS sports dot Com. You're listening to the Best of
the Big Blue Insider. More to come here on six
point thirty WLAP. It's Dick Gabriel. Welcome back to the
Best of the Big Blue Insider, talking to Matt Norlanders,
senior writer, analysts and podcaster for cbssports dot Com, who

(12:36):
is quite passionate about as am I as are a
lot of people about the fact that they're about to
screw up or it looks like the nca tournament, at
least the vote going on. As he said down in Savannah, Georgia,
I like, I agree with you. I don't think they're
going to kill the Golden Goose. But mediocre games matter

(12:56):
to viewers, and I always direct my listeners to the
fact that, yeah, we like Cinderellas in those first couple
of weekends. Maybe maybe just in that first weekend alone,
But when George Mason made it to the final four,
that was an six with Florida, UCLA, and LSU, four

(13:17):
schools that traditionally did not draw a lot of attention
when it came to college basketball, and the ratings were abysmal.
They were down twenty five percent from the year prior.
So that matters to people, does it not?

Speaker 3 (13:33):
To a certain extent, Yes, But those stories also resonate
and help tell the story of the tournament as the
years go on. So like, its kind of an option
of your point here, George Mason is like, people don't
remember that the two thousand and six Final four might
have been very poorly rated, like no one you remember it,

(13:54):
like and TV people might remember it, but for the
most part, like that that kind of stuff that dies
off reallyquick quickly. People do remember George Mason made the
final four, and that is part of that, Like, that's
one of the ten most significant stories in the history
of the NCAA tournament. Was the first mid major to
ever break through and really was the first of you know,
we've had I think seven mien major since then make
the final four. It's it's been mighty impressive. But yet

(14:17):
there is a The magic of the tournament is that
you have Cinderella potential and it pops up ye fairly regularly.
You can make an argument that maybe we're at risk
of having some of that being reduced in this next phase.
We had none of it in this past tournament. But
you know, we're two years remove from FAU making the
final four and SBSU in the title game, so let's
not overreact too much there. And the balance between these

(14:40):
power conferences, these big name schools and these little places
that you're like, I hadn't thought about that school since
the last time I saw them in the tournament thirteen
years ago. You know, it's the perfect balance. Sixty eight
really is. It's the perfect balance of enough Power conference
opportunity and representation, and then the small schools that get
their automatic bids from you know, towns that house seventy

(15:01):
thousand people and they get their chance on a national stage.
It is perfect as sixty four. So we no longer
have a perfect American sporting event, but sixty eight is
about as close to perfect as you can get. It
owns the month, and again you have the conference tournaments.
My last point on this, I just want to hammer
out when you have your conference tournaments the week before, Okay,

(15:23):
so you really do have basically once we flip the
calendar to March, you have a three hundred and sixty
teen national tournament. What's happening here is that everyone had
a chance to qualify for their conference tournament that then
gets the automatic bid into the NSUBAA tournament. So if
you're looking for an expanded tournament, we've always always had one,
and just in a different kind of form that blends

(15:44):
the best of both worlds. That brings relevance, that brings urgency,
real meaning to those games at the Power conference level,
and a team that might be nineteen to eleven fighting
to get into the tournament. Now I just shudder to
think about, like think about like North Carolina last season
and how uninspiring they were. They had one quad one
win and they still got in and six in a

(16:04):
seventy sixteen tournament. That North Carolina team that was constantly criticized,
really tough to watch at times. That team's in with ease,
there's there's there's there's no sweat whatsoever. And so if
you think about Carolina getting in as a sixty eighth team,
think about how poor the seventy sixteen would be. You know,
I can't even give you what team that was because

(16:25):
there wasn't there weren't you know, eight additional teams that
were near the cut line last season. That's uh, that's
what we're looking at, and that's not that's not that
positive for the sport.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
Couldn't agree more. Before I let you go, I have
to ask you about a post I saw on one
of your social media accounts. You are a big fan
of Calvin and Hobbes, and apparently you read them to
one of your children or multiple children. Yeah, at bedtime, Yeah,
for sure. I have such a collection of Calvin and
Hobbs books. And when Waterston, when the author, the artist retired,

(16:56):
I could read in the comic page just because I
was so a fan of Calvin and Hobbes. How did
that happen with you?

Speaker 3 (17:04):
Yeah, listen, I think you and I and there's probably
people listening right now that that identify with this as well.
I was turned on to them a young age, definitely
seven or eight years old. I don't remember how I
first encountered it, but I do remember that my grandparents
reinforced my love for it. So you would buy me

(17:26):
the paperback. You know, there's treasure everywhere, and and you
know it's a magical world, and all of these Calvin
Hobbs collections that were in paperback, and and I remember,
you know, in middle school I would try and perfect
drawing Calvin and Hobbes, you know, in the columns of
my notebooks during class and even into high school, and
it was just yeah, it's a formative, uh, you know,

(17:50):
American experience as a as a young child growing up.
And so I've got the full on, you know, hardcover
volume of everyone that Waterson ever published, and few years ago,
my older son we just started reading, you know, not
every night, but two three nights a week. We just
go through seven, eight nine ten pages and we're almost done. Yeah,
we're about forty pages or so from from finishing volume three.

(18:12):
So yeah, that's uh, that's real American art there, and
so I appreciate you bringing that up. And yeah, that's
the greatest comic trip ever as far.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah, I agree. And a doctor's a documentary out there
about Bill Waterson very reclusive. Uh yeah, very there's uh,
there's just it's a great story. And if you're a
fan of comics, can't recommend it more. If you're a
fan of college basketball, I cannot recommend Matt Norlander Moore
at cbssports dot com, who, by the way, according to

(18:40):
your bio, is a guitar player and a wanna be drummer.
There's a picture of you performing. How often does that happen?

Speaker 3 (18:51):
That's actually not and that's in my h that's in
my Twitter head. It's not me performing. Uh, it's me
on stage with the band Guster, who's a fantastic alternative
pop this been around for thirty plus years. They formed
in Boston. Great dudes. I had a sticker on my
laptop that went viral a few years back, and so
as a result of that, they said, let's bring you
on stage and make the whole thing of it. But
I have played the occasional I have played the occasional

(19:12):
gig hero in there, but not nearly as much since
I had kids.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
Well that's great, hey, listen. I do appreciate your time
as always, and I've been reading you for a while.
But and again to Mike de Corsi is a pal
and he has also been so vocal. I don't know
if there's anything we as media people can do, but
they're about to ruin one of the great one of
the great sporting event, not ruin, but damage one of
the great sporting events in America.

Speaker 3 (19:36):
So hold out hope for a few more days. D'll
surprise us.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah, man, thank you so much. I enjoy the rest
of your summer.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Thank you so much. Appreciate you having me on.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
You're listening to the best of the Big Blue Insider.
More to come here on six thirty w LAP. It's
Dick Gabriel. Welcome back to the Best of the Big
Blue Insider. While I was taking a couple of days off,
and of course over the weekend I had a chance
to he would go to the Kentucky Pro Football Hall
of Fame banquet once again, and prior to the dinner,

(20:05):
we talked with my pal Jim Dapolis, who was inducted
this year. He's always shown up at the banquet as
a supporter, but some of us wondered why he wasn't in,
and sure enough now he is. But we also got
a chance to chat with Danny Trevathan the night of
the banquet. We talked to Jim a few nights prior

(20:26):
to the banquet. We talked to Danny the night of. He,
of course, a really talented and popular Kentucky linebacker, played
for the Wildcats from eight to twenty eleven, played under
Rich Brooks and Joker Phillips. He was an All Conference
performer at Kentucky, led the SEC in twenty ten in

(20:47):
tackles with one hundred and forty for He might have
been the leader again his last year, but he was injured,
missed a couple of games, and I'd forgotten about this.
He went through the draft evaluation process after his junior year,
came back for his senior year and it helped him.
He was drafted in the sixth round by the Denver Broncos.

(21:09):
Even though he was quote unquote undersized, he was only
two hundred and thirty seven pounds, six feet tall, but
so fast, and the Broncos saw that they signed him.
He played for their Super Bowl champion team, super Bowl
number fifty, led by Peyton Manning, and after four years

(21:29):
he signed a free agent deal and finished his career
the last six years with the Chicago Bears. Not as
much team success with the Bears, but certainly had a
great career. Ended up with seven hundred and forty one tackles,
ten sacks, deflected thirty nine passes, picked off eight and

(21:51):
even had a pick six. We got to see that
in the video and he was introduced at the banquet,
But as I said, I had a chance to chat
with Danny prior to that, he was already where ring
the purple jacket. You know in Canton it's a gold jacket. Well,
the Kentucky Pro Football Hall of Fame, it's a purple jacket,
which is a good idea for one thing, it's regal,
it's a royal color. But the other thing, now, you

(22:13):
got a lot of UK guys, a lot of U
of L guys put purple or put red and blue together.
He had purple. Danny looked pretty good in it. And
he remembered me. He was surprised that I remembered him.
Of course I'm gonna remember him. He was one of
the greats and followed in the footsteps of the great
Wesley Woodyard. We talked about that, among other things, the

(22:34):
night of the Kentucky Pro Football Hall of Fame. Here's yours, truly,
and Danny Trevathan, Well, what was your reaction when somebody
gave you the call about the time?

Speaker 5 (22:46):
I just played it. But I feel honored. I felt blessed.
I really know how hard I worked here, and you know,
just to see people who actually see that work man
and then not go unnoticed a lot of lone nights,
it felt great.

Speaker 4 (23:01):
You know.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
When I got away from the game, I got to myself.

Speaker 5 (23:03):
I got thinking about my career and where I started,
and this is one of the stopping grounds where I
started to pick up my pace and started to see
what type of world I was gonna be in, what
type of profession I was gonna do. So it's an
honor to be back here, and I'm looking forward to
receiving this this jacket and just wearing it every day,
for I know, I never thought I would look good
at purple.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Who ever thought red and blue would go good? But
it's all about what it means, right, exactly, exactly Royalty. Man,
You're from Florida. You came a long way to play
up here in the cold, but refresh our people are
listeners memories. What brought you here? Why was this the
place for you? Well?

Speaker 5 (23:41):
I was looking, I was really close committing to Miami,
and last second Kentucky had just beat LSU in that
bowl where I think Braxton Kelly and Wesley Woodyard, and
I stopped him on the yard.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
I was like, man, that deepest looking excite.

Speaker 5 (23:55):
I don't want to be part of that. You know,
you know they want to up and coming. Nobody sees
him coming. That's people always looked at me my life
like like I'm an underdog, but I can always fight
my way up. So when I came here and they
told me how the opportunity to play, I worked my
tail off and I'm grateful for that.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
Well, rich Brooks appreciated your work ethic. That had to
mean a lot to you.

Speaker 5 (24:14):
I think, right, oh yeah, well supposed man, that's like
the following that I never had. Man, you know, he
really mentored me, not only on the field, but off
the field, man, and I think that go I noticed
a little bit. So I want to give him his
credit for that and tell him that it's very appreciated.
Him and his wife is doing great. And he was

(24:35):
one of the main reason why I worked so hard,
just to see somebody really believe in you. That's all
people need, somebody just to believe in you a little
bit and push you towards that direction. And he was
the guy who did that. So hopefully he sees this,
and you know, he realized how much you mean to
some people.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
You were not the biggest linebacker, but you might have
been the fastest linebacker I've ever seen you. Plus at
one point you were live in and return kicks. I know, Ah,
you remember that then?

Speaker 4 (25:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (25:00):
I think, didn't you do it lunch in a blue
white game?

Speaker 5 (25:02):
Yes, and it's frying game, Like I broke my wrist
after that, and he was like, oh no, getting him
out of there.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
He was like, He's like he can't. You can't have
him out here running.

Speaker 5 (25:10):
But I was definitely wanting fast and probably still I
don't know how many people can beat me and racing still,
but uh, I hold my head high for that one.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
And helped it did.

Speaker 5 (25:20):
The game was changed when I got in the league.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
You know, they used to be like, he's too small,
he can't go tap of play.

Speaker 5 (25:26):
But you know, once I got in that league, they
was changing to shotguns, quick passes, you know, no huddle.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
So I came in right in time. You had to cover.

Speaker 5 (25:35):
I had to cover, and I love covering. My first
person I covered was I think it was Jimmy Graham
that had do Antonio Gates, and then I had a
Julius Thomas on my team. I was going crazy against
and pay Many. Once pay Many knew my name and practice,
I knew nobody. Nobody's gonna get over, Nobody's gonna get over.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Well, we mentioned you came up in Florida, you end
up playing in Chicago, You're playing Denver. You couldn't get
away the cold. But did you learn to how did
you learn to cope of that? Orange and blue?

Speaker 5 (26:04):
All my life, that's true, even in high school, elementary
I always had orange and blue, So I came with
it to grow into it.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Whether it's gonna be cold.

Speaker 5 (26:14):
Weather's gonna be hot, well, it's gonna be any adversary,
I'm gonna face it.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
For that orange and blue whatever.

Speaker 5 (26:20):
It's either been orange or has it been blue in
my career, my whole life. Man, it's crazy to think
about it. It means that much to me. So if
I'm putting in a position where I can work my
way up to the top, nobody's gonna stand in my way.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
I'll let you go over there. I know Wesley was
a mentor to you. You talked about him being a
bit of a role model for you. What was it
like and he was big in Denver for a long
time as well. What was it like having him as
a mentor.

Speaker 5 (26:43):
Weshley was a brother man. Wesley was a guy who
really cared about the team. And he was one of
the youngest leaders I ever saw. You know, he didn't
care about whether he was a freshman or sophomore or junior.
He just wanted somebody who wanted to lead and it
can work hard. And he saw that in me and
he pushed me to towards being the leader. I saw
him work not only just talk about it, but be

(27:04):
about it. And Wesley was a guy who was humble.
He treated everybody the same. He's just an outstanding person man.
And I just talked to him not too long ago.
We was playing a video game. I don't know if
he wanted me to tell people, but yeah, he was
playing a video game. He's kind of bad at it,
but hopefully you're better. But just to still have that

(27:24):
opportunity to talk to him and you know, share with him.
I told him even on the game. I know he
didn't want me to get an emotional or whatever, but
I told him, you know, I'm very thankful for what
you did in my life.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Man.

Speaker 5 (27:35):
You know, I had a lot of men in my
life that tried to come in and teach me things.
So I took what I can from every man. It's
not one person I could just pinpoint. I took everything
I could from each and every man in my life.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
And I try to make that who I ask, and
it's Danny Trevathan And yeah, he was a favorite of
rich Brooks. Although from day one I didn't bring this up.
We had talked to Danny about it when he was
a senior, and he shucked it off. He said, I
don't even know rich Brooks for four years called him Travathian,
and so we were looking at each other like, are

(28:09):
we getting it wrong. It was Travathan, but Rich kept
calling him Traviathian. But when you're the head coach, you know,
call him whatever you want. But Rich Brooks never stopped
singing his praises. And it wasn't just about you know,
how fast he was, how good he was. He just
loved him as a player, as a person, and as
you can tell of the feelings were mutual between Brooks

(28:32):
and Danny Trevathan. Good to see him, and congrats to
Danny for now being part of the Kentucky Pro Football
Hall of Fame. Tip of the Captive Frank Minifield for
the event that he and his people put on. It's
a lot of work, but it comes off really well.
Brian Milem stepped in for Rob Bromley, hosted to Dinner,
did a marvelous job. So good night, a good weekend,

(28:55):
and good to see Danny Travathan. You're listening to the
Best of the Big Blue Insider. More to come. I'm
here on six thirty WLAP. It's Dick Gabriel. Welcome back
to the Best of the Big Blue Insider. Joining us
now is he does each and every Wednesday as our
unforgettable guard. Sean Woods. His jersey hangs in the raptors
of rupp And we have been talking coach about the

(29:16):
final four, about the NC tournament, about the brackets for
weeks and one of the teams you loved, and you
said this going into conference tournament play was Houston, and
not just because they were the hottest team in the
country for a while there, but just because of the
way they played. And sure enough they get all the
way to the championship game. Before we talk about that,

(29:38):
talk to me about the Duke comeback. That was unbelievable.

Speaker 4 (29:43):
That's just who they are, uh. And then it was
almost identical to the Duke Kentucky game earlier in the year.
And you know, you know the kid just you know,
Cooper Flagg. You know, even though he's eighteen now, he
was seventeen when he played Kentucky, but he acted like
a kid who just you know, I mean, he's a

(30:05):
dominant kid, he's a a generational talent, but he kind
of you know, they ran out of gas, but man,
Houston is just so relentless. Then they played to the
last drop, They played to the last second, and that's
exactly what happened. And you know, the two teams that
ended up in the National Championship were the two toughest

(30:28):
teams on both ends of the ball, and that's Florida.
Who doesn't who doesn't give up to the last second?
And do I mean and Houston, you know the same thing.
You know, I thought Saint John was in that boat,
but Saint John just couldn't shoot like those two teams.
And that's the reason why those two teams were in
the championship game. And it was a historical game just

(30:51):
the way it ended.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
I mean, you know, wow, yeah, well we'll get to
that in a minute. But when Houston came back on Duke,
the fact that somebody described this more than once on TV.
The first thirty minutes they played it was essentially the
way Duke wanted to play, but the last ten minutes

(31:13):
was played the way Houston wanted to play. I guess
you're not surprised they were kind of able to turn
it on when they needed couch, Like you said, that's
who they were. What did Duke do to take them
out of their game at first?

Speaker 4 (31:27):
Well, Duke was just so flamboyant. And you know, the
way you beat a great defensive team is you got
to make shots, and you cannot turn the ball over.
And I thought, you know, for the first little bit,
that's what Duke did. They were making shots, they didn't
turn the ball over, they didn't subside to Houston's pressure
and physicality on defense, and it was everything they made.

(31:49):
Everything was going right for him. But man, you get
to that thirty minute mark, that that ten minute mark,
in that second half, of the eight minute mark, in
that second half, if you not it's shaped like they are,
You're they're coming back, They're coming to get you. And
that's exactly what happened.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, yeah, and it just turned into just a real
dog fight, didn't it. I mean, I mean, it was
all I don't want to say it was like a
playground game, but like you said, it just came down
to the toughness.

Speaker 4 (32:20):
They went to the gutter, they left the street, and
they went down in one of those little fox holes.
And Houston lives in the fox holes.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
That's true.

Speaker 4 (32:30):
So Houston got a chance to bring them down to
where they're comfortable at and Duke wasn't comfortable with that.
You got to remember, now, Duke didn't have a close
hadn't had a close game in two months. So when
it got down to you know cutting time. Duke never
been there before. You know, they've never been you know, okay,

(32:51):
they they've always been punching down. But when somebody finally
started punching up, they didn't know how to respond. And
Houston didn't stop, you know they you know, you're thinking, okay,
with ten seconds left or whatever, with that, we're up six,
we got this game. No you don't.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Yeah, So you think the ACC, the lack of quality
teams in the ACC, the lack of toughness in that league,
came back and haunted them.

Speaker 4 (33:18):
Yeah, because you you know, you only is good as
especially down the stretch when you get to the final fordever,
you only as good as what you've been, what you've
gone through. And it's called experience, you know what I mean.
They've never been in that type of situation before, and
for the first time, they really didn't know how to act.
I mean, they were out of their element for the
last minute, to be honest with you, they were just

(33:39):
holding on. And you know, and when you're trying to
hold on and the other teams steady making shots and
the shots not going there for you, You're like, whoa
you know what I'm saying, You miss a free throw
here and there, you miss a block out here there? Hey,
and now you ended up you know what I'm saying
looking on the other side, and that's that's where that

(34:02):
thing went down.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
Well, and then you mentioned Florida being a team that's
not going to come back or they's not going to
be denied with all the comebacks Florida had. Amazing that
Florida had to come from behind in four of its
tournament games, including the championship game, which meant I got
to think that, boy, the SEC couldn't have prepped Florida

(34:25):
any better, right.

Speaker 4 (34:27):
No, And when you got the Mariarra Rivera of college basketball,
you know, he's the best closer I've seen it all time.
And you know, and I'm talking about the shots that
he's made in the NTA Tournament were not easy shots,

(34:48):
and they were super clutch shots. And you know, Florida
has gone through the gauntlet of the SEC. You know
what I'm saying. They were physical enough, they were offensively
gifted enough, and they had the best point guard in
the tournament. And you know when you have those deals, hey.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
Oh yeah, and really interesting, I thought, Sean that Golden
benched him for a few minutes. As a guy who's
made a lot of decisions under the heat of battle
on the sidelines. Have you ever had to do that,
like you're warrior, your leader. It just wasn't happening for

(35:27):
him for whatever reason. You got a credit, Houston. Maybe
he was pressing a bit. I mean, this golden knows
this guy inside and out, by the way, guy who
started his career with Rick Patino, as you know at Iona.
But what did you what did you make of that
when he benched him?

Speaker 4 (35:45):
Well, you gotta bench your guy, you know what I'm saying.
Justin getting going, okay, sit down a little bit, you know,
guy yourself, see what you see out there. You know,
sometimes the game has to slow down for you. But
you got a credit, Houston. I mean, a great job
from a defensive stand taper them out of the game.
But just like Houston did, duke this guy here, man

(36:06):
just turned it on when he needed to turn it on.
And Houston made two critical mistakes. And the two mistakes
they made, it wasn't It's just it wasn't what Florida did.
It was just they slipped and failed. Yeah, yeah, they failed,
you know what I'm saying. So and he took advantage
of it. He's the guy that you can't give him
a splip and you give him an inch and he's

(36:27):
gonna he's gonna make you pay. He couldn't get a
shot off up until the late in the second half,
and that you got to credit Houston for that. And
then when Houston kind of let off the gas a
little bit, boom, Yeah, there he.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Goes well and he goes in and gets the old
fashioned three point play with a shot from the left side.
I mean, kle Lee, you know, you knew he was
going to get something somewhere, but that couldn't have been
scripted any better, you know.

Speaker 4 (36:53):
No, they did a good job of really, you know,
creating that mismatch, and he got on with a big
and he took that big to the cleaners and had
to finish with a tough fit and that was a
tough finish with the left hand, and that was really
his first bucket of the game.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
Amazing, just amazing. There there's one other thing that you
got to talk about when you talk about that game,
and that's the foul on the free throw. They got
flagged for going over the back. And you know, people,
you know, why do you make that call and that
kind of thing. But I believe that, and you could
see it on the replay. If he didn't foul, then

(37:30):
the play would have unfolded differently. The Houston player would
have gotten the rebound, but instead, because he went over
his back and became a loose ball, they had to
call that.

Speaker 4 (37:38):
Well, here's the deal, the ref, if I'm thinking the
thing is straight, the ref almost try to help him
because luckily he said to the line, he just having
to make both of them. Mean a great free throw shooter,
that's true kind of gave they tripped it backfired on
him because he made the free throw.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
I hadn't even thought about that. You're exactly right, that guy.
You thought, oh, maybe he'll make one. Holy cow, had
even thought about that.

Speaker 4 (38:08):
So you make Calvin Sampson happy by giving him a chance.
But you put his worst fre throw shooter that was
in the game at that particular time on the line,
and he happens to be happens to go make both
of them, and hey, it didn't work out the way
you wanted to. But the ref gave you a chance, Duke,
because he saved you an offensive rebound. Maybe I'll put
back and maybe could have got an end one in

(38:29):
that situation.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
Wow, but he.

Speaker 4 (38:33):
Stopped to play put the worst rere throw shoot on
the team, and he just happened to make both of them.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
Sure did You're listening to the best of the Big
Blue Insider. Our number two is next here on six
thirty w LAP and it's Stick Gabriel. Welcome back to
the Big Blue Insider. Our number two taking a little
time off, so please enjoy the best of the Big
Blue Insider. Seventy eight days away from Kentucky's football season beginning.
We know this thanks to our buddy Corey Price. He

(39:00):
is our statistician on the UK Network and he puts
all kinds of interesting stuff on Twitter. And I got
to tell you a couple of days ago. I mentioned
in the fact that he had eighty days away, of course,
and had a photo of one of the football Wildcats,
and I was pretty sure that this is who it was,
but I wasn't entirely certain that Now I am checked
it out, the number eighty. It was a player celebrating

(39:24):
a touchdown. It was TC Drake. TC Drake was a
tight end who played at Kentucky from six to nine
and like too many tight ends, and yeah, we're about
to talk about Vince Merrow. They just don't catch enough
footballs to satisfy you and me and Kentucky fans everywhere
for various reasons, chief among them, they have needed the

(39:46):
tight end to stay in and block so much over
the last several years. But we have yet to see
anybody approach the effectiveness of a Jacob Tammy who played
with Drake. That's why Drake didn't catch more balls as
a tight end, or James Well, I don't think you'll
ever see anybody break the James Whalen record. And he
was technically an h back but listed as a tight

(40:07):
end and then played of course under Mummy and was
an All American. But Drake. The picture that Corey Price
used was celebrating the only touchdown he ever scored at Kentucky,
and it was huge. It was the first touchdown in
Kentucky's upset win over then top ranked LSU Wildcats won

(40:32):
that one in overtime forty three thirty seven three overtimes
really and knocked LSU from the top of the pols.
Kentucky was seventeenth that year. That was the best offense
in the history of Kentucky football coordinated by Joker Phillips.
Rich Brooks was the head coach, Andre Woodson Keen and

(40:53):
Burton Jacob Tammy, Dicky Lyons, Rafe a little Tony Dixon.
They had it all offensively, really good offensive line, not
quite enough defense that year. They would have gone a
lot farther, but anyhow, Drake caught a deflected pass in
the back of the end zone on Kentucky's second drive

(41:14):
and scored. It was a two yard touchdown pass that
would be the only touchdown he scored in his entire career.
It was the only pass he caught that season. He
had played as a freshman year before, eight games special teams. Basically,
he played in all thirteen games as a sophomore, even

(41:35):
started one or two but was a blocker. But he
did catch that touchdown pass and gave Kentucky the early lead,
and everybody was like, wow, Kentucky's leading LSU. And then
it became the greatest game I've ever covered, not just
because Kentucky won and upset the top ranked team in
the country in overtime, so that there was added drama,
you know, Lona seber Field goals and things like that,

(41:57):
but it was just a great football game by two
teams that were on top of their respective games that day.
I mentioned Vince Merrow. It is so weird and the
comments are circulated by now. Came out lead yesterday. It's official,
as Jeff Brahm announces Thursday that Vince Marrow has been
added to the staff. It is so strange to read

(42:19):
a U OFL press release extolling the virtues of a
coach from Kentucky as saying, they said that twelve highly
successful seasons at Kentucky. Well not all of them, you know,
some better than others, some recruiting seasons better than others.

(42:41):
But that's the nature, as you know, of a PR release,
You've got to put all your best stuff out there.
Jeff bromsaoning he exemplifies the highest standards of collegiate coaching
and recruiting success. Commitment to player development, exceptional ability to
connect with young athletes, which is true, have made him
one of the best in the business. And Vince will

(43:03):
be a huge asset to the staff. I was reading
this and I had forgotten that when Vince Marrow was
in Nebraska and that's where Mark Stoops plucked him. You know,
brought him to Kentucky and immediately gave him a huge
job right recruiting coordinator. He was a GA at Nebraska
because he had been coaching primarily in the pro ranks

(43:26):
NFL Europe to UFL, but he had been a GA
at Nebraska. This is when you look at what happened
in Kentucky, that's a meteoric rise. And now he has
the relationship with Jeff Brom going back to when they
played in the XFL. He said, Jeff and I have
known in the release, have known each other for more

(43:47):
than twenty five years. I've always admired and respected him
in the Brom family. And he said, I love the
state of Kentucky. This has become my home. The opportunity
to take on this exciting role in the state where
I have so many incredible relationships was something I couldn't
pass up. And he thanks stoops any thanks to fans
and hopes that his lifelong friendships remain. Yeah, there are

(44:10):
outspoken people on Twitter saying don't bother because yeah, it's
uku of l and by pal John Wong, the doc
the retired orth Thedonis who writes a blog and covers
UK for small town newspapers. If you go to Wong's whinings,
we'll get John. I think John's out of the country
right now. We'll get him on here soon. He wrote

(44:32):
a scathing commentary that basically encapsulates I would think the
feelings of a lot of Kentucky fans just about feeling
heartbroken and betrayed. It's pretty funny actually, But yeah, it's
official now, Vince Marrow. And he hasn't yet spoken as
I'm sure he has by the time you'll hear this,
But as we record this, he has not yet spoken

(44:53):
publicly about his move. So just another weird chapter in
the history of Tucky football. While we're talking to UK football,
the stadium is going to get a facelift already, the
Board of Trustees began consideration of proposed investments up to
one hundred and ten million dollars in UK athletics facilities

(45:17):
over the next few years. Meanwhile, they're gonna have to
come up with the money to pay players. And as
my Palajepikoro sat in here with us yesterday, always wonders
where are they going to get this money? Yeah, that's
a good question. Now, this is just a proposal presented
by UK athletics. But as Eli Kapoluto said, the goal

(45:38):
is to incentivize innovation remain a premier program by pushing
to examine creative ways to grow generate revenues necessary to
support our successful Generate revenues means, of course, looking for
more money, and they're looking right at you. Ticket prices
will go up, that happens, but they're looking at fifteen

(46:01):
million for maintenance at kroger Field Stadium, thirteen million to
renovate kroger Field corners, suites and elevators. This is to
take care of the people who foot the biggest chunk
of the bill. Yes, you pay for your tickets, but
those folks you might resent sitting up in suites, they're
paying the big money, as you know, and you can

(46:23):
resent them all you want. But you know what, you've
got the opportunity to do the same thing. You want
to spend that kind of money and invest in the
entertainment that is UK football. You can do that, rent
yourself a suite because those people who do that are
right in the checks. We know this. Five million bucks

(46:44):
to improve soccer and softball. UK Softball, by the way,
is going to host the SEC tournament next season eight
million bucks for initial design of a west end zone
club space in Wi Fi improvements at Kroger. That's right,
Wi Fi improvements. It's always been terrible for whatever reason,

(47:07):
but they believe they can make it better. And if
you're wondering about how to pay for it, they've got
a proposal for an additional thirty one million dollars operating
loan to be repaid with interest as UK moves forward.
And by the way, they've done this before. They have
borrowed money paid it back with interest, so that's how

(47:28):
that works. Now that's soaking state taxpayers. They're borrowing money.
It's just when these figures get so huge, it's amazing,
So roll that into the house settlement. There's a lot
going on financially with college sports and with UK specifically.
We talked about the acc SEC challenge. For the men,

(47:49):
they're playing North Carolina. The women are going to play
Miami in Miami Coral Gables on December third, so Kenny
Brooks and his team will make a long road trip
for that one. Em play since Summer tenth of twenty seventeen.
Wildcats lost that one, but they've won six of eight
against the Hurricanes Before we get to the break, a

(48:12):
couple of basketball notes. Mock drafts are coming out now,
ESPN's latest. They have some of the writers debating who's
going to go in the first round, no second round,
so we don't see any Kobe Bray or anybody else
from Kentucky. But ESPN's experts obviously believe Cooper Flag will
go first, but they also think at least one of

(48:36):
them at Konkin Nipple will go second. Shooting guards, shooting forward.
That would mean that a school has the top two
picks in a draft. And you know this first time
since twenty twelve when Anthony Davis went number one and
Michael kid Gilchris went number two. A d he's still playing.

(49:00):
Michael has retired, but that was pretty cool, wasn't it
that night to see him going to and a surprise?
And MKG never had huge stats in terms of points
and rebounds consistently in the NBA, But what he did have,
even on bad teams was incredibly good plus minus numbers,
which I always thought was fascinating. I don't always put

(49:23):
a lot of stock in plus minus, but it seems
like it makes more sense in the NBA. One other
basketball note ole Miss, like everybody else is out working
with their basketball program, including brand new guard Travis Perry.
He talked to the media after the very first practice
and talked about what led him to Oxford.

Speaker 6 (49:44):
Yeah, you know, I was very pleased with my freshman
season at Kentucky. I fel like we had a great
group of guys I was able to learn a ton
from and just kind of transform my game. It's hard
for any freshman coming in, especially for a freshmen coming
into the SEC at the best conference ever in college basketball.
So I was very blessed to have that opportunity. So

(50:05):
I have nothing but love and respect for those guys.
Wish them all the best. But whenever I got into Portal,
I felt like that Coach Barry's vision for me was
exactly what I was looking for. And I felt like
we had a lot of guys coming here that wanted
to win, wanted to compete at a high level, and
I feel like I could come in and impact that.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
It's like a time war. Seeing Travis Perry wearing an
ole Miss T shirt, you're listening to the best of
the Big Blue Insider more to come here on six
thirty w LAP It's Dick Gabriel. Welcome back to the
Best of the Big Blue. Insider David Siska is my guest.
We check in with David every once in a while.
He is part of the Rivals Network, works for capt

(50:41):
Illustrated and other publications as such. Man the Final Four,
all three games, David couldn't have been much better. You
must have been as a basketball coach and officionado digging
what you saw over the weekend.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
I did, but if you, I don't know if I'm
sawing a couple of day's back on Saturday, I tweeted,
does anybody else feel like the Final Four is just
like a partial break from a transfer portal or a diversion?
And that's that's how exactly how I felt. In fact,
while they were I was typing out two stories what

(51:17):
the game was going on about potential transport portal players.
So that's dominated my life the last few weeks. I'm
afraid it's going to for the rest of a month
at least. But yeah, it was tremendous, and I think
that's what happens when the best four teams are in it.
I look, I think the portal has kind of done that,

(51:38):
especially in Al, has done that where you know, the
strong are going to get stronger. And I know people
want cinderellas that first weekend, but sometimes you pay for
it on down the road. And we had a true
final four. I think I don't look at it and say,
like there was in the last couple of years, like
it was Yukon and everybody else. I picked Florida to win. Actually,

(51:58):
and I had three of the final so I'm proud
of that. I first got right years. So but I
didn't look at Florida and say, Okay, it was them
and then everybody else.

Speaker 4 (52:10):
I mean, you had.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
Four really good teams, and if you played it four times,
you might have four different winners. So it was, yeah,
it was. It was a tremendous night. I think you
just had four teams stood out. I think you really
had six teams among the best, and then but the
Flows were clearly the best four. And you know, we
were rewarded with a great weekend in the basketball.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
We really were, and just the comebacks by Florida, I mean,
you know, and in that game, the championship game Monday,
it was played absolutely the way Houston wanted it played,
needed it played, and Florida beat them at their own game, didn't.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
They They did, and I'll be honest, it was it
was just early on, even when it was closed. I said,
I do not think that Florida's big can stand up
to this, because yeah, I mean, if you watched the inside,
what we're really exception exception of Thomas House. I felt

(53:13):
like the rest of those guys are really just it
looked at me like when they were inside, they were
just fighting off a swarm of bees or something, just
fliling around, and I'm just like, these guys are not
strong enough. And you know, you saw some rebounds early
on where Florida's got the rebound and their position and

(53:34):
they don't go get the ball, and some of Houston
guy just like he shot out the cannon somewhere, goes
and gets it. And I'm like the difference intensity and
it's what they can do physically is different. But you know,
Florida kind of hung around. Houston had their chance. You know,
they got the lead, like you said, but then Florida
made a run there and they got Clayton got going

(53:58):
and you know, come back. They tied the game up
I think at like forty two forty two, and they
never could take the lead, but I felt like the
bigs inside started matching up because Houston, you know, would
never get it. We ever time a ball went inside
on either and it was and they had combat. Yeah,
but I thought felt like Florida did really a good
job of doubling down on the post and the guards

(54:19):
were able to get down there and smack some balls
loose and create some turnovers and really help. So I
thought they adjusted well right there. And I think Florida's
big suggest it. So you know, I really didn't know
if Florida was going to win to the final horn sound,
and I felt like it was Houston, but I think
Florida didn't sell in.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
Well, yeah, I agree, And I was shocked that Houston
didn't even get off a shot at the end. You know,
I wasn't surprised they played for three, but I was
a little surprised they didn't give themselves any opportunity to
even get off a shot.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
How did you you know? It was really weird on
that last play number one there was if you watch
it when it first starts, there was a beautiful hedge
of recovery over on the wing, I mean, because it
looked like a head so hard. It almost looked like
they switched, but they didn't, and they recovered back, and
you've got to have help and you've got to sprint

(55:15):
so long to get that in the recovery. I thought
Houston might get them early and they didn't. And then
when they threw the ball out top, it was guarded
well and then a good closed out and it was
really interesting, the very same kind of play that cost
Auburn against Florida when Chad Baker Mazaarre, if you'll remember,
they got to steal on the press and Chad Baker

(55:37):
Mazaar dribbled out to the three point line. I think
they would have cut it till one. They're one hundred
and twenty five seconds left, and remember they closed out
and he jumped on the shot and then he came
down with the ball. This time he used to let
it go. So Florida really had two huge, deep maybe
their two biggest defensive stands of the year when the

(55:58):
three point shooter left the ground and came about down
with the ball.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
Yeah. Well, speaking of deep ense, let's back up to Saturday.
How surprised were you the duke kind of folded.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Well, I think Barry obviously, but you know, it's really
weird you're talking about these games. Florida could have lost
to Auburn just easily in the same way. I mean,
they were not steady against that press at all. They
got up eight and then you know they can't get
the ball to Clayton and the other guards. You could

(56:33):
tell they didn't want it. They had turnovers, they had
loose balls against the pressure. They missed like two front
ends of one and one. And it was the same
way we'll do, you know. But I think the pressure,
you're just not used to seeing it. And I just
wonder too, Duke playing any acc the league was so

(56:53):
bad they never had any pressure on them all year,
and that makes a difference. But I think Kevin Sampson
pointed that out, you know, indirectly would a big twelve wars.
But uh just plays. I think about the play where
Duke had to run out against the press, never getting
ready to go up eight. They got to lay up
in the full court and the Houston guy comes out

(57:14):
of nowhere, swats it. They come out down Hre to Flory's.
Instead of being a a now an eight point game,
it's a three point game. I mean, it's just a
matter of second. So things like that, plays that you
had to have happened. You have a really good bowl
shooter on the line, missus h it's just while we
love basketball, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Yeah, you know. And the defensive play on the inbounds,
to me, I thought was just I mean, I sat
up straight and just kind of I didn't know what
to make of that except that it was an incredible
defensive play and that's the way Houston played all year.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
Yeah, and you know, it was weird. I was looking
at this morning. I knew it would go on today,
and I went back and looked, and you know, it's
easy to getting enamored with up and down basketball and
three flowing offense. And I think we were all excited
about Marpope. I'm an ad Oaks guy, and I make

(58:11):
no apologies for that. I love to watch teams play
like that. Becky McMillan coming into Texas A and M
I just enjoy that. But if you look at the
final eight teams, six of them in pace, I think
there's three hundred and sixty three teams and maybe in
Division one sixty eight or one hundred and thirty eighth

(58:35):
or below in pace five or one hundred I think
Auburn was one eighty three. Five of the eight or
one eighty three or lower four were two hundred or
so one eighty three you're looking if you've got three
sixty three, you're looking right at the middle of the
fifty percentile. So five of the eight that we're in,

(58:56):
we're in the lower half. So Houston and Duke, they
were way down in pace and they played half court
and they played fiscal. He came down to it. This year,
you know, we were talking about playing the style of games.
It seems like teams were older through the portal, they
were fiscal, and defense won out over offense this year really,

(59:18):
and we you know, we all thought the game was
going to hold different directs.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
Yeah. Absolutely, but you know it's a cliche because it's true.
Defense wins championships. And at the end of the championship
game Monday night, it was a defensive played there.

Speaker 4 (59:33):
One.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
Well, you've got to have you've got to have some offense.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Oh yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
So yeah, you know, I felt like I think going
into the game, I tweeted this Monday, Houston was two
and three. When the team scored over seventy or more,
they were thirty three and one when opponents scored sixty
nine or less. So you think about that thirty and

(59:59):
County Monday, n thirty five and the forty teens in
Houston did never got to seventy points on there. You
go only five times, and but you know, scause you've
got I felt like, why look at that. I said,
Houston's got to get. I mean, Foid's got to get
to seventy and they get and I kept watching it
through games. They didn't get to seventies. They played Houston's face,
it's down the low sixties, like you said, But Houston

(01:00:22):
when it came they had to have it in the
second half, they just couldn't get. They just couldn't score.
You got to be able to score, so Rick Barnes
faced there for years, yep. And you've got to be
able to score something.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
That's right, that's right. In the last four possessions for
Houston they came up empty and meanwhile, Walter Clayton came
to life and that was it for the Gators. So
you know, it's it's.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
Yeah, yeah, Houston never got a Houston had two turnovers
on all possessions. They never hit a rim with it.
So that's big.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Another empty trip for the Cougars and another title for
the Southeastern Conference. Coach David Sisk. We love to see
his works illustrated and chatting him here. Thanks coach, we'll
talk to you soon. You're listening to the Best of
the Big Blue Insider. More to come here on six
thirty WLAP. It's Dick Gabriel. Welcome back to the Best
of the Big Blue Insider. Thanks again to John Wong

(01:01:14):
for joining us. John off there told me you probably
will not be going to SEC Media Days. My plans
right now are to attend down there in Atlanta, just
because I think it's going to be really interesting to
see how Mark Stoops and the Wildcats are perceived. I
have a pretty good idea. It's what have you done
for me lately in college football? And lately the Wildcats

(01:01:36):
haven't done much. But again I'm just I guess the
word is haunted by in a good way and in
a bad way by Kentucky's win over Ole Miss. I
was thinking about it all during the off season, and
then again I watched it, recorded it and watched it
on a Kentucky takeover day on the SEC Network, and

(01:01:59):
of course fresh in my mind, from the past season.
Were the losses were the bad games? And I need
to go back and watch that Georgia game again. But
that o' miss win, so many things were good. There
were some near disasters, but it was such a good
performance by Kentucky. And I just kept thinking, what happened
to this team? Where did it go? Why didn't we

(01:02:21):
see more of what we saw down in Oxford? So
who knows, you know, maybe with the rebuilt old line,
we'll see more of that. And the teams the John reference,
the teams that have been as you and I have
called them, the swing games through the years, the South Carolinas,
they don't play them, but the Missouri's the Vandy shouldn't

(01:02:43):
be a swing game. It really it is. You go
back and look at the record. Kentucky has the advantage
and wins, but you would think that the way Kentucky
fans look at Vandy that the Wildcats have won seventy
or eighty percent of the time over Vandy. It's closer
to like fifty five. So anyhow, they got to win
those games, get back to winning those games and try

(01:03:06):
to knock off Tennessee. And again they've been able to
beat Florida at times through the years. That's a huge plus.
But that's how you move up, you know, you can't
wait for the other guys to back up. Those days
are gone. It was happening for a while there, and
Kentucky did not take full advantage. It did over Florida,

(01:03:27):
but Tennessee clearly backed up. Kentucky didn't take advantage Georgia
for a while there before Kirby Smart got down there
and went not started to back up. Kentucky didn't take advantage.
Alabama backed up in the nineties and the Cats beat them,
didn't They just didn't play Alabama enough. Auburn clearly backing up,

(01:03:48):
and Kentucky didn't take full but of course didn't play
Auburn a lot. But that's how you make your bones.
You got to beat those teams that give you the
opportunity to win. And John mentioned South Carolina. That's gonna
be huge. Ole Miss another team that for a long
time was one of the have nots and then ups

(01:04:08):
and downs, and Kentucky got them last year. All right,
I promised college basketball and I just like to keep
an eye on these things. They drive Cameron Mills nuts.
It's the preseason This is of course a way too
early top twenty five college basketball ranking, But this is
according to a panel with USA Today looking at NSA

(01:04:29):
men's college basketball. And this is the post transfer portal
top twenty five, which they've ranked, of course post portal
with the number of pre portal ranking, and once again
USA Today says Houston will be number one. This is
pre and post portal, even though it lost a couple

(01:04:53):
of key players but had maybe the top recruiting class
in the country. They got Duke second. Still I don't
get this. I mean, they must love the recruits coming
in for Duke. How do you lose Cooper Flag, Conkin, Hipple,
and Malocke the other kid drafted in the first round?
Antyreech Proctor. You get a good recruiting class including Carlos

(01:05:17):
Boozer's twin sons and others. And he's got him second,
got you Cunt third? Still, another great recruiting class for
Nanny Hurley. He's got Purdue up from eleventh to fourth.
How about that? But they also pick up some quality
through the portal, says USA Today. So Purdue now way

(01:05:38):
up there in their eyes. Florida is fifth, up from eighth,
even though Walter Clayton is gone, so is Elijah Martin,
so as Will Richard. But they got other bigs back.
Now he makes a mistake or the panel makes a mistake.
Denzel Aberdeen should pick up more minutes. Nope, not at Florida.
He won't, but I will tell you they mentioned the

(01:05:59):
fact that he's Inkingucky when they ride about Kentucky. We're
coming up to that. Michigan sixth, up from ninth, even
though Dusty may lost its top his top three players
in ann Arbor, but he got a lot of quality
through the portal. Brigham Young is seventh, actually drops a
couple spots, but still a lot expected of the team

(01:06:20):
that signed the top freshman in America, AJ Debansa, and
they've got some good recruits coming in beyond him. They
got Alabama eighth, down from number six. They say, of
course that's the SEC favorite. Now, even though Obama lost
some good kids picked up some talent through the portal.

(01:06:40):
They got Saint John's ninth, up from thirteenth, and a
lot of poles have Saint John's ranked much higher. I
saw one poll at Saint John's number one, But Patino,
I think signed one high school kid everybody else through
the portal, including Warmer Wildcat Bright Hopkins. Once he is healthy,

(01:07:02):
he should be a big help. He did lose r J. Lewis,
the Big East player of the year, but he's got
a lot coming back and a lot coming in from
the portal. UCLA drops from four to ten, even though
Mick Cronin's got a pretty good transfer class. They got
Louisville eleven now down one. Texas Tech drops from seventh

(01:07:24):
to twelfth, even though they've got the returning Big twelfth
player of the year. Iowa State fourteen now thirteen. They
lost a transfer who needs hip surgery and likely will
miss the season, but they got some other guys through
the portal. They got Kentucky fourteenth now up two spots

(01:07:45):
from sixteenth, primarily because otega Oway is back. And of
course they also mentioned Jayden Quaintan's and they say, if
he's healthy, that could be a real different maker, and
they're not wrong about that, of course, Janlen low Denzil Aberdeen.
They do mention. They do not mention Kentucky's recruiting class,

(01:08:09):
the incoming freshman gold medalist Jasper Johnson, Malachi Moreno Tennessee drops.
I'm Sorry rises from nineteenth to fifteenth in the eyes
of USA today, a lot of transfers coming in there. Wisconsin, Arizona,
Gonzaga eighteen. Arkansas drops from twelve to nineteen in the

(01:08:31):
eyes of USA today, primarily because the duke Theerro left
went to the NBA Draft was the thirty six player taken.
Good for him, but DJ Wagner's back, Carter Knox's back.
They signed Darius Acuff junior who could be great, and
Malik Thomas so but Calipari could make another run. Creighton

(01:08:54):
is twenty, Kansas is twenty one, Michigan State Illinois or again,
and Auburn is twenty fifth according to the USA Today
Way too early preseason poll. Another word about Kansas. Remember
when Kentucky, Remember when we all thought the Wildcats were

(01:09:14):
gonna get Hunter Dickinson and the way he had played
at Michigan. I had two thoughts on that. The first
one was met, you know, because I was there in
London when the Wildcats played Michigan and beat him, and
Dickinson did not impress me, but he did impress me
in other games. So I'm a good player, and I

(01:09:34):
thought he would have helped Kentucky ends up in Kansas,
got a better nil deal that didn't work, which told
me and a lot of times you know, big name
players will shun Kentucky go elsewhere. Ben Simmons did and
didn't do anything. Other players same thing. So it says
a lot about who you play with, who's around you,

(01:09:56):
who you're surrounded with. I thought Dickinson would get a
lot more done at Kentucky surrounded by more quality teammates.
Oh yeah, quality teammates at Kansas, and it didn't work,
and he did not hear his name called on draft night,
and I just looking back on it, think Kentucky might
have ducked one there. Yeah, I could have helped, but

(01:10:19):
that to me was a fascinating case of a guy
who everybody wanted, and then when he didn't become a
wildcat for a while there it looked like while they
missed out, But ultimately I can't say Kentucky did miss out,
no question. It's Dick Gabriel. Welcome back to the best
of the Big Blue Insider. Hey, it's Dick Gabriel and

(01:10:41):
you're listening to the best of the Big Blue Insider.
Welcome back to the Big Blue Insider. Final segment of
our show. And this being the talking season, the middle
of summer, it is also the time when broadcasters and
writers have to try to fill the Internet. It's a
bottomless pit and we have to fill it. But there
are some fun ways to do that. And one of

(01:11:02):
the ways is to rank this, that and the other thing.
And one of the recent surveys I like. In fact,
this was on the Athletic dot Com and I highly
recommend it. It is a great website if you like sports,
and it's not expensive. I promise you what they have
done is rank the top one hundred college football rivalries

(01:11:27):
of all time, and I will save you the trouble.
I still would like you if you haven't and I
don't get anything out of this, but I just recommend
the subscription, but you'll enjoy it. But I will tell
you the UK shows up twice. The UK Louisville rivalry
out of one hundred rivalries, ranks seventy nine according to

(01:11:48):
the folks who put this poll, together, just ahead of
Tennessee Vandy of Southern Grambling Baylor, Texas. Tech rivalries like
that the Kentucky Tennessee rivalry, and I use that term
loosely because Tennessee is dominated. Is seventy fifth, but it's

(01:12:11):
one spot ahead of Clemson Georgia. How about that. So
I will skip ahead to the top. Let's go top ten,
shall we, And you can probably imagine just about all
of them. It's the order, which is interesting as always,
just on the outside looking in at twelve Georgia Florida.

(01:12:33):
At eleven Alabama Tennessee. And remember that's the rivalry for
Tennessee because it's dominated Kentucky for so long. In Alabama
being Alabama, that's the game Tennessee fans worry about. But
that's on the outside looking in. At the top ten,
number ten, Minnesota Wisconsin, which is a great rivalry, believe

(01:12:55):
it or not. Florida Florida State. Lately there hadn't been
a whole lot of s because neither team's been any good.
But through the years, yeah, Ohio State, Penn State, especially
now that they're in the same conference, Miami Florida State,
same thing. Niter team's been really interesting. But through the years, yeah,
that's been a great one. Nebraska Oklahoma is ranked six.

(01:13:19):
That used to be the game of the year, and
in fact, back in the early seventies. Kids, I'm taking
you a way back. It's still considered the greatest game
ever played. I think it was seventy two, maybe on
a Thanksgiving Day. Oh man, what a game. I do
remember watching that game. Not so much lately, but USC
Notre Dame. It's a high profile game, and of late

(01:13:43):
Notre Dame's been more relevant. USC has been better. Army
Navy is fourth, of course, of course, I don't care
what the records are. It's always going to be up there. Oklahoma,
Texas now part of the SEC. But through the years,
huge games involving those two teams. Number two Auburn Alabama.

(01:14:05):
I think that has as much to do with how
much these teams hate each other the fans as anything.
But there have been some incredible games by both the
one by both of these teams. And number one, of course, Michigan,
Ohio State. Michigan leads it, believe it or not. Sixty
two to fifty two is six ties. Lately it's been

(01:14:26):
Ohio State and Michigan's had its moments. But that's according
to the Athletic dot Com. And I can't again can't
recommend it higher. I mean, it's just a great website.
Great way to follow in a lot of fun. There's
another poll out there, going back to cbasports dot com

(01:14:47):
college Football's top twenty five worst coaching hires of the century. No,
there's not a Kentucky coach in there, not even among
the ones who just missed the cut. I thought they
might row in Joker Phillips because he had a rough
time at Kentucky. But I will jump ahead Willie Taggart,
the former hero from Western Kentucky. His stop at Florida

(01:15:11):
State not so good. Let's see, let's get to the
top ten, shall we. Derek Dooley of Tennessee. Yeah, I
always try to make fun of him. He did not
have a good run in Knoxville fifteen and twenty one.
He's the guy who lost twice against Kentucky. Even worse,

(01:15:34):
he was three and two against Kentucky and Vanderbilt, but
oh and six against Georgia South Carolina and his sixth
in the secs twice and lost fourteen of his last
fifteen SEC games. Duley led Tennessee to his first back
to back losing seasons in one hundred years and set

(01:15:55):
the program back for a long, long time. Less miles
of Kansas. That was a mess. Jeremy Prude of Tennessee,
Ty Willingham at Washington, Charlie Weiss at Kansas, he failed
a Notre Dame, went six and twenty two at Kansas.
Rich Brooks used to make fun of him because he

(01:16:17):
was the OC under Belichick in New England. Yeah, but
Tom Brady, but Rich Brooks knew what was what. Chad
Morris at Arkansas four, Elis Johnson at Southern Miss three.
Elis Johnson took a team and went twelve and two
the year before, ended up oh to twelve. Boom tied
for first all time. Mike Price at Alabama, Michael Haywood

(01:16:41):
at Pittsburgh incbsports dot com. It's where you go. And
by the way, they have another list ten college prospects
primed to boost pro stock after returning to school for
next season. And what surprises me is otega Oway not
on that list. I mean, you talk about a high

(01:17:01):
profile player who could be the SEC player of the
year and went through the process and Boogie Fland is
on that list. And that's a good choice. But he'll
take away is not which I find very surprising, but
one man's opinion or a couple of guys opinions. That's
what makes it fun. That'll do it for now. Thanks

(01:17:21):
for joining us for this special edition the best of
the Big Blue Insider. That's it. Good night from the
garage in Lexington. What is the fullest name on third base?
What is the fellaw's name on second?

Speaker 7 (01:17:32):
Mase, I'm not asking you.

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
Who's not second, who's on first?

Speaker 7 (01:17:35):
I don't know third base. No tact that sing anything

(01:18:34):
to one batta that sperm ten inning intating to the