2025-10-29 BBI

Mark Pope on how his team executes when things break down; stories are coming in about ex-LSU coach Brian Kelly; (11:00) Cutter Boley on his progress, looking ahead to UK at Auburn; (19:00) retired FBI agent Clay Mason, a white-collar crime specialist, on the gambling scandals sweeping through sports; (39:00) ex-Cat Sean Woods, the Unforgettable guard; (58:00) West End Bureau Chief Gary Moore and no matter how big (or small), you gotta like Da Bears...

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh oo, Guess what day it is?

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Guess what day it is?

Speaker 3 (00:05):
Huh?

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Anybody?

Speaker 4 (00:08):
It's hump Day.

Speaker 5 (00:11):
Day.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Yeah, It's hump Day. Dick Gabriel with you on a
Wednesday edition off the Big Blue Insider. One day closer
to Kentucky basketball. Tomorrow night, it's the Wildcats and Georgetown University.
It's a seven o'clock tip at Rockets Arena as Mark
Pope sends his team out for the second exhibition game.
Then it all begins next week for real with Nichols.

(00:34):
We'll talk a little basketball here. We're gonna talk some football, obviously.
In baseball, last night, the Blue Jays beat the Dodgers again,
this time in Los Angeles. Following up, they followed up
that eighteen inning loss and came back and knocked out
Shoe Otani broke through against the bullpen. They were leading
two to one, and then Dave Roberts, the manager, made

(00:56):
a decision that everybody is second guessing now in Los
ange Angelus and Dodger fans everywhere. That's what happens when
you're a manager. You know, you pull the starter. Talented
but wobbling a little bit. And of course Otani has
been on base nine times in that eighteen and inning game.
You got to wonder about his legs, but he was

(01:16):
beginning to struggle. But everybody who's followed baseball this year
knows that the Dodgers weak point is the bullpen. And
yet the bullpen was absolutely perfect, just brilliant, not literally perfect,
but just great in the eighteen and inning win. But
not so much last night, and a two to one
game turned into a blowout. Frankly and Jays win it

(01:41):
six to two, and now we're all tied up at
two games apiece. So yeah, lots of fun in the
World Series. If you're a Jays fan, if you're a
Dodgers fan, you still got to think you've got a
great shot. But it's the kind of thing where I
know Dodger fans some are expecting his sweep not gonna happen, obviously.
Kentucky and Auburn coming up this weekend. Tonight, we'll hear

(02:02):
from Cutter Bully. He spoke to the media last night
about what's going on with him, what's going on with
his team, And we're going to talk a little bit
too about Brian Kelly, the ousted LSU coach, and complaints
about him are pouring in and piling on, which you
might expect. Not always doesn't always work that way. People
are fired and they say, well, you know, you gave

(02:23):
it a good shot, gave it a good run. Not
so much to this guy, but you know he can
cry his way to the bank. Correct. But let us
get back to the basketball cats. Mark Pope after the
Purdue game, was happy, of course that his team won.
I mean, it's not that big a deal. It's how
they won. And I think it was last week at

(02:43):
some point or I asked him a question about the
kinds of things he's looking for. I can't remember exactly
how I phrased it, but what he said he's looking
for and what he has liked in what he has
seen his team, this was prior to the Purdue game,
was the fact that when things are breaking down within

(03:05):
the offense on a given play, he said, and I'm paraphrasing,
you know, there are things that he wants his team
to do, his players to do in terms of execution
within their system, as opposed to just reverting to what
got them to where they are today. And that is
to say, a highly touted basketball player at the University

(03:27):
of Kentucky. I mean, there's a lot of skill there,
there's a lot of creativity there. But what he wants
is to see them execute within the scope of what
they're trying to teach at UK. And sure enough it happened,
is always going to happen always every game. Not every possession,
you hope, but every game. And sure enough, it happened

(03:50):
against Purdue, and it's going to happen against Georgetown tomorrow night.
But Pope like what he saw with regard to how
his players handled things when they were breaking down, how
they executed.

Speaker 6 (04:04):
I was really proud of us in the first half
offensively because we weren't very good. But when we weren't
very good, we tried to solve it by being us.
You know, we had seven cut assists and seven scream
assists on the night, and so there were several stymied
late possession possessions in the first half where we didn't

(04:25):
just try and like go fix it the way that
these guys have always fixed it their whole life. They
fixed it our way.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
They fixed it our way, and that's what he wants
to see tomorrow night against Georgetown. He wants to see
things done our way. The Mark Pope Way, which is
now the Kentucky Way. So what's interesting is unless you
are extremely clued into what's going on with UK basketball,
and I mean know the game inside out, know the

(04:56):
game the way they're teaching it over there at the
Joe Craft Center, I don't know that you or I
will ever really fully understand what he's talking about. I'm
sure we could get him to nail things down a
little bit, but the way Mark Pope describes things, I
think my head would be turning and my eyes would
be spinning by the time he was done describing it.
And it doesn't really matter, you know, as long as

(05:18):
it works, as long as they get it done, And
it doesn't matter nearly as much obviously now as it
will four or five six months from now. Correct. Yeah,
So you'll hear it right here on six thirty WLAP
with Tom and Jack calling the action. Kats and Hoya's
in Rupperina. One other UK note, otega Oway is on

(05:38):
the Jerry West Shooting Guard of the Year Award given
out by the Nasmith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. He
is one of twenty can that it's right now and
they add names to the list throughout the season. But
of course this goes to the nation's top shooting guard.
Malik Monk won it back in twenty seventeen. Remember that
UK players don't win a lot of these awards conspiracy.

(06:00):
It's just there's a lot of good players out there,
and generally if a guy distinguishes himself, it's often for
a team that may not have much going on around him.
But yeah, Malik Monk, what a year he had in
seventeen and oh way could well win this when he
has already been called a preseason SEC Player of the Year,

(06:22):
preseason All American by a number of outlets. Of course,
had a big year last year sixteen points a game
and began the year topping double figures in each of
the first twenty six contests, thirty three overall career bests
in points, rebounds, assists, blocks, free throw percentage. Yeah, and
he wasn't that bad at Oklahoma. I averaged eleven points

(06:44):
a game a couple of years ago. But he really
had a breakout, you and this was after Jackson Robinson
went down and Kentucky needed him to do the things
he was doing. A couple of former Wildcats in action
last night. One good not in one not so good start,
with the latter Carl Anthony Towns and the Knicks losing
in Milwaukee Towns thirty five minutes only eight points, did

(07:09):
have twelve rebounds. But he's struggling right now. He was
great last year. New York loved him. Right now he's
averaging seventeen points only and thirteen rebounds with shooting thirty
five percent from the field. And it was interesting last
night media were jumping on him because the Knicks did

(07:29):
not look the way they should have looked. Of course,
Jalen Brunson did have thirty six points. Mckel Bridges had
twenty four, but the Bucks double team cat every time
he touched the ball. Now that said, Mike Brown, the
new head coach of the Knicks, said that he really
liked what he saw Carl Anthony Towns, at least in

(07:50):
the first half. He said, he triggered our offense, they
double teamed them, and he passed out of the post,
which is what he's supposed to do. But down the
stretch apparently had to see the game. He was not
what he could have been or should have been. So
he's struggling a bit, and as well know in New York.
There is no room or place or time for struggling. However,

(08:12):
former Wildcat Tyrese Maxie big right now and so are
the Sixers. They win again, took overtime to beat the
Washington Wizards, but they wanted one thirty nine to one
thirty four. They are now four to zero in the season.
Maxi had thirty nine points ten assists in that win,
so he is loving life and living large. Tyrese Maxey

(08:35):
on that team, as we mentioned, I think last night
it didn't get go to the tournament, and man, if
they had, I do believe it would would have been
a final four team. I'm going to talk Kentucky football
coming up in our next segment, and I know a
lot of you are waiting for the other shoe to
drop on Mark Stoops that he will not survive the season.

(08:56):
There are football games left to be played. Of course,
it does not look like any move is forthcoming before
the season is over, but that's not been the case.
As you know, around the world of college football, including LSU,
maybe the most high profile job and when it comes
to a coach being fired, Brian Kelly getting cut loose,
and now the stories are coming in about the fact

(09:18):
that this was never a good fit in the first place,
and people are pointing fingers now at the AD as well.
They should Scott Woodward, who is now responsible for the
second largest buyout in college football history fifty three point
eight million for Brian Kelly. And keep in mind the

(09:41):
number one buyout seventy six plus Texas A and M.
Scott Woodward hired Jimbo Fisher, So this guy has got
back to back bad hires. Things just did not work out,
And now we're hearing more and more about how Brian
Kelly treated people. Story broke over the weekend about Kelly's

(10:05):
stay as the head coach at Central Michigan and he
had two future NFL coaches on his staff, Matt Lafleur
and Robert Sala, who's now the coordinator decordinator for the Niners.
For a while there was the head coach of the Jets,
and they said that they were told of a party

(10:26):
at Kelly's home when Kelly was the head coach at CMU,
and they showed up thinking they were invited to the party,
when in fact they were not on the guest list.
They were on the worker list. Sally said, we shoveled
the snow and parked all the cars. At the end
of the night, we had to go get the cars again.

(10:49):
Then they went back to the tiny apartment they shared
as grad assistants, stood around their kitchen table because they
couldn't afford chairs, but they parked cars at Brian Kelly's
house that night. They survive the experience, probably stronger because
of it, and now Kelly walks away with a huge
chunk of change. But one of his former players had

(11:13):
nothing good to say about Kelly. They're kind of piling
on now. One former player suffered a bad knee injury
he had to medically retire from LSU football. He was
a highly regarded defensive back, and he said that, yeah,
well he was playing while he was healthy. All was
good with him and the coach. So I'd hear from

(11:34):
Coach Kelly quite often. He said the second I got injured,
not a word, and not a word since, he said, genuinely,
one of the worst humans I've been around ever. I
suspect we're going to hear more and more of this
coming out. But I also suspect Ryan Kelly will be
a head coach again at some point, maybe not next season,

(11:55):
but not long after that. All right, we'll take a break,
come back and talk Kentucky football on six point thirty WLAP.
Welcome back to the Big Blue Insider. Coming up in
hour number two, Sean Woods, the Unforgettable Guard. We'll talk,
of course UK basketball with him as well as West
End Bureau chief Gary Moore. We're also going to talk
about point shaving. We're going to talk about this NBA scandal,
the rig poker games, the fixed ball games, with an expert,

(12:19):
quite frankly. He is Clay Mason, a retired FBI agent,
lives here in central Kentucky. And I've known Clay for
quite some time and he has followed this closely. We
have been texting back and forth about it. He's been
on the show before. But Clay and I met in
an odd way. We met on the phone because back
oh gosh, many fifteen years ago, or so he called me,

(12:43):
out of the blue, he was the agent in charge
in Frankfort, and some of you may recall this, there
were these crazy rumors going around that the NCAA is
investigating Kentucky on point shaving by Rajon Rondo. And this
was five years after Rondo had play and why isn't
the media reporting on this, I said, because it's stupid,
because it's not happening. I didn't even have to investigate it,

(13:06):
because I told anybody who would listen, the NCAA does
not investigate point shaving. That's a law enforcement issue. The
NCAA can't arrest people. The cancuboena people. They might deal
with it after the fact. But I said, you know,
this is just nuts. And then Clay calls me out
of the blue, says, you don't know me. I read

(13:28):
you when you were in the school paper. I know
who you are. I listened to you for years. Blah
blah blah. Could you please report on your show, on
this very show, that we are not investigating. The FBI
is not investigating. So I said, how do we know?
I know you're not. What about the rest of the bureau?
He said, I checked. I checked with every field office.

(13:48):
We are not So what about other agencies? I checked,
we are not investigating. He checked every avenue he had
And I went on the air that night, and I
don't know if it was the direct cause and effect,
but I never heard another word about it, and it
kind of touched off of friendship with Clay and here
both Saint Louis Cardinals fans. So yeah, so he's going

(14:11):
to come on tonight and I'm going to ask him
about what has gone down with this Chauncey bellup situation.
The rig poker games, the NBA game fixing. Those are
two different things. So we'll talk about that coming up
at the bottom of the hour. I did mention that
we're going to talk Kentucky football, and here we go
with the Wildcats taking on the Auburn Tigers, a game
you will hear Saturday night. Man, I don't mind night

(14:35):
games as long as they're at home. And I'm not complaining.
I'm just telling you that when it's a road game,
you know, you get home at two or three in
the morning, it's just it's it's it's not fun. But
I wouldn't trade it for the world, quite frankly. And
maybe maybe a night game is what the Wildcats need
on the road, who knows, But they need another big

(14:56):
game from Cutter Bowley. He's had some good ones of late,
hasn't he. Ever since they went back to the quicker
attack up Temple get the ball out of his hands,
Cutter Bowley has looked almost like a different quarterback. And
one of the things this up tempo attack has enabled
him to do is use all the weapons at his disposal,

(15:16):
running backs, wide receivers, slot receiver, whoever tight ends. And
he talked about that after practice yesterday. The fact that
he can look in a number of spots and find
help downfield.

Speaker 3 (15:29):
I think that's coach all credits Coach had been the
situations he's put me in. And you know, I mean,
I'm just going through my reads and operating the offense
how once it operated. And I think that's a lot
of different guys are getting a lot of shots in
the game and they're really stepping up. You know, a
lot of young guys and even our older guys. You know,
everybody's playing really hard. So, like I said at the

(15:52):
beginning of the year, like I don't really care who's
out there, like whoever's out there receiver, I have a
lot of confidence in that they're going to do their
job and be in the right spot, the right And
Coach Hamden's done a great job of coaching that.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
Bully said it, I've said it. Look whatever you want
to say about Bush Hamden's play calling, and there hasn't
been that much said about it. Has there since they
tweaked the scheme, and Hamden talked about it yesterday as well.
Reminded us somebody brought it up, and he has been
talking about it. It's working, There's no question about that.
Some of you have said, well, it took him long

(16:25):
enough to figure out. Look in camp Zach Calzada and
Cutter Bully, I couldn't tell him apart who was doing what.
But keep in mind this was not against opposing players
who were coming at him looking to kill him. It
was in a controlled scrimmage situation where people weren't allowed
to hit the quarterback for some reason. In real games,

(16:47):
Calzada did not perform very well, and cut Her Bully has.
And one of the things that Bully has done well,
hasn't He is scramble broken plays, hitting people down the field,
and he is connecting with receivers who know what to
do during the scrambles. Drill. Well, that's not an accident.
Because I asked Bully about that yesterday. I said, you know,

(17:10):
receivers have connected with you, and you've connected with receivers
for some of the bigger gains of the young season
so far. And he said that was a product of design.
He said they worked on it in fall camp in
summer camp because he said they knew that that was
going to come up, and he talked about concepts. You know,

(17:32):
if a play breaks down, if that particular concept breaks down,
what are you going to do? And so far it's
looked pretty good.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
During fall camp, we really emphasize and put a big
emphasis on our like our biggest concept's going to be
scrambled drill, you know, like that's going to be the
most kind if you know, I mean, you only run
a certain concept a few times a game. So when
we get out of the pocket and the play breaks down,
you know, I mean, that's going to happen more than
any singular concept we're going to play during the game.
And we really emphasize during fall camp, so I think,

(18:01):
just get outside of the pocket and these guys making
moves and can continue in the play, And just that
kind of comes naturally when I go through my progressions,
I need to move or make something happen. I think
that comes really naturally from me.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
And at first I thought that was kind of unusual
that they would spend so much time on that, But
when you think about it. You can go over play
so many times, you can rep them, rep them, rep them.
But it's the plays where things break down that you
have to have a better feel for what's going on
down the field. And as a quarterback, what's going on
with your receivers. And as a receiver you need to

(18:36):
know what to do, where to go, what are some
of the spots that are going to be available. And
they've done that well and it's going to take more
of the same at Auburn because Auburn has been struggling
but has a tough, tough defense. Retired FBI agent Clay
Mason's next on six point thirty WLAP Welcome back to
the Big Blue Insider, joining us now as a guy
who's been on our show before. He is alert listener

(18:58):
Clay Mason, who who is a retired FBI agent and
specialized in white collar crime. And Clay, you and I
have been friends for a long time, and interestingly enough,
in this day and age where we have stories breaking
all around us about gambling in the NBA and game
fixing and things like that, you and I actually met

(19:18):
on the phone many many years ago, whene were these
dumb ass rumors going around it. Oh, the NSA is
investigating in Kentucky for point shaving Rajon Rondo Da Da
Da da da. And you reached out to me you
were still with the FBI. I said, go on the
air please and say this is a bunch of whoy,
which it was. But there are always rumors out there, Clay,

(19:41):
and now with these revelations about NBA games, and we
already had Donahea, the manager, the manager, the referee who
had been nailed, it's scary. What's coming out. I'm wondering.
I know there's a bit of cynicism in your line
of work, in mind or your former profession, but were

(20:02):
you surprised at all by this?

Speaker 2 (20:06):
No, not in the least. You know, every podcast you
listen to about sports, every game is sponsored by one
of these mega gambling sides, and it's just a matter
of time and every sport or every venue that something

(20:27):
is going to happen. And in my experience, the criminals
are at least the con criminals. All of the scams,
all of the things have been going on for years
to separate people from their money. Because they want the
next thing to be, you know, better than it could be.

(20:50):
They're willing to risk money. The criminals are always ahead
of law enforcement, you know, whether it was the Nigerian
oils letter schemes or you know, all of these romance things.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
And Grandma that one too.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yes, everything, it's it's always ahead, and law enforcement's playing
catch up to nab the individuals who are perpetrating this.
And in this instance, you know, we're learning about these things.
But these these poker games and two separate things, the
poker games and the and the betting on games. They've

(21:28):
heard a couple of years ago, you know, And and
so there's always a catch up time. And so they're
cleaning up what happened a couple of years ago, what's
happening tomorrow, you know, what's happening tonight in the NBA
roster or the NHL or you know anything. And so, yeah,
I'm not surprised that there's just so much influence and

(21:51):
so much money poured into all of this gambling. It's
just not a surprise.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
You and I talked on and off the air when
that Adida scandal popped up and it swept you know,
you availing into it a lot of schools, and I
remember you telling me because you had seen the file,
the FBI file, and you said they've got it and
it's going to take a while. And you said, that's
just the way when the Feds are involved, that's the

(22:20):
way it works. And to your point, yeah, this stuff
was going on a couple of years ago. Because now
professional gamblers are saying, we've known this all along. It's
only coming out now. But Clay, is it because the
Feds try to do everything in their power to nail
everything down before they go public. Is that why we

(22:40):
don't hear about it for a while.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yes, that's part of the reason. You've got to have
all of your proverbial ducks in a row before you
make an indictment on any kind of case, but especially
one that's going to garner the kind of media attention
that this is. It's the same thing as kind of
like you know, public corruption cases. You can't you take

(23:05):
an enormous risk of ruining reputations when this type of
case breaks, and you have to be sure that you're right.
You know, if you go after a you know, a
senator or a congressman, or you know, a governor or
somebody like that, you've ruined their political career if you're wrong,

(23:30):
and the same thing with these athletes. So they they
take their time. They make sure they've got you know,
enough meetings, enough recorded conversations, enough poker games and stuff
that it creates a compelling case.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Does it take a while, I've got to think it
does to get the proper warrants in place just so
you can listen in or investigate.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Oh yeah, yeah, if they were doing wire taps. I've
run wire taps before, and it takes weeks and weeks
in advance to get your first wiretap in a case
like this, because there's not somebody's life at stake, So
you have to write up all of the information you
have about this particular phone being used for criminal activity

(24:16):
by these particular people, and so there's a lot of
preliminary work that has to go into that. And then
you've got thirty days to listen and if you need
more time, you have to go back to the court
every thirty days. So that's it's a built in calendar
of delays in terms of putting the case together. And
then when you've got all your evidence and you know

(24:39):
you need to take it to an arrest want stage.
You know, that's what happened the other day. They finally
got all of the things they needed and conducted the arrest.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
Wants well, seeing TV and radio, TV and radio, TV
and movies probably on a radio. Two. But where attorneys
defense attorneys will trip somebody up because of war aren't
isn't worded properly or something like that? Is that a
real uh problem to have?

Speaker 2 (25:08):
There? There are there are technical issues sometimes, but the
courts can overlook clerical type errors. They can say, well,
and what will happen. There will be an evidentiary hearing
where the agent or the law enforcement officer who wrote
the the the aff of David behind the the title

(25:30):
three the wire tap. Uh, Well, we'll get up in
court and they'll ask them questions, and in the depends,
attorneys have an opportunity to cross examine. They cross examined,
and so the agent can say, yeah, I was mistaken
that that was a clerical error. I meant to put
that the phone call occurred on such and such a date.
That's the wrong day. Now you can't you can't make

(25:54):
up evidence. You can't say this happened and it didn't.
That's a that's a reversible But yeah, there can be minor,
minor issues with a warrant. I've had that happen, but
it's not you know, it's not a game changer.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Good, So you know, yeah, talking to Clay Mason is
a retired FBI agent specialized in white collar crime. And
of course we're talking about the gambling is scandal that
has swept through the NBA, and now everybody is suspect.
Not a suspect, but now anybody who bets on a
game legally and sees a bad beat or loses their

(26:32):
money in a weird way now more than ever, Clay,
they're saying them them says, well, I bet that game
was rigged, you know. And that's why I when I
argue with friends of mine who believe that athletes ought
to be able to bet on games. You've got guys
who are being suspended now, not for fixing games, but
for gambling on games. I've said the same thing. Look,
when I go to a game, I want to know

(26:53):
this guy doesn't have money on the game, one way
or the other. And I know it might be naive,
and I know they can bet through friends. Everybody's doing that,
I'm sure college athletes. But this is only going to
get worse, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
I think so. I mean, you know, with burner phones
or friends or however, there's always a suspicion that somebody's gambling.
And you know, to me for the short while, what
this raises is the Schrodinger's cat issue. At the end

(27:30):
of a game, you don't know if that box opens
up and there was a fix on or not, and
so many people have that suspicion. Now the legitimate gambling
industry will say, oh, you know, we're keeping tabs this.
We know when there's a surge of money going on
a certain thing that that raises red flags. But it

(27:53):
didn't stop it. It raises red flags and then they've
got to step in and do an investigation. So it's
just one of those one of those things that is
so pervasive in society that I don't know how it
gets reversed. But yeah, for me, that's always been my

(28:13):
argument is that you just don't know. And I was
glad to see. I think I saw yesterday that the
ncuble A reversed and has held off on a decision
to let athletes now gamble. So yeah, so I think
that's good because it just doesn't take much for somebody

(28:38):
to get in debt and somebody to start providing information
they shouldn't or or in the worst case scenario, an
athlete in their own game start to do things that
gets them out of debt.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
So this has happened. It has happened on many occasions.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, shoeless Joe, you know that
whole that whole thing.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Arizona State had a scan, of Boston College had a scan.
Kentucky had a scandal back in the fifties. So yeah,
that's how it happens. People see some easy money and
then they get into debt and somebody comes to and
says comes to him and says, you know, here's here's
what you're going to do, and it's it's a it's
a nightmare. We're talking to Clay Mason. He is a

(29:28):
retired FBI agent specialized in white collar crime. We'll talk
more on the other side of the break here on
six point thirty WLAP. Welcome back. My guest is Clay
masony is a retired FBI agent. He specialized in white
collar crime. And of course we're talking about the scandal
that has swept through the NBA and Clay apparently a
lot of this began at least depending on what you read.

(29:51):
Back in July, when Gilbert Arenas, a former NBA star,
was arrested in charged with operating an illegal gambling business
out of his mansion in California. This is a guy
who made untold millions and yet saw the need to
run a gambling operation allegedly, and he supposedly said that

(30:12):
he had snitched. He admitted he had snitched on other
players looking to help himself. Has since then said he
was being sarcastic, that his case was separate, less severe
than the one involving other NBA figures, which apparently is
mafia connected, but one way or the other, Operation Royal
Flush the NBI or Operation Nothing but Net has made

(30:38):
some headlines, but generally is that the way things like
this begin, because how else would you find out about
rigged tables and X ray glasses and then game fixing.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Almost always there's somebody that gets head over heels and
gets in over their head and has to find a
way to get out. And whether you know, it's the
same way in the drug world, it's the same way.
And just about every criminal conspiracy, somebody's a weak link,
and in law enforcement gets lucky oftentimes in finding that person,

(31:15):
or they come to law enforcement because they know they're
in real trouble. You know, there's there's almost you know
the old adage two people can keep a secret if
one of them is dead. You know that that anywhere
there's a secret, there's a chance for it leaking out.

(31:38):
And it happened here now whether Arenas is the one
behind it or not, but you know, we don't have
to go back super far to also remember, you know,
Michael Jordan's suspiciously took a two year yap in his
NBA career and there have been rumors all the time
about his association with people and his his poker games

(32:03):
and stuff. Was was more behind that than his father's
death and it turned to baseball. So, uh, it's just
always there when when people have play money, they play
with it and sometimes it just gets too big. This
one was very fascinating. I mean, the whole extent of
the the X ray tables, the magnetic marked cards, the

(32:29):
glasses and contacts that you know, that's that's James Bond
Mission impossible stuff. So it's just outrageous. But you know,
it's one of the one of the podcasts that I
think you and I both regularly listen to is Tony
Kornheiser's and he regularly during this time of year.

Speaker 7 (32:49):
Has Jeff ma on.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Jeff ma was the the MIT student behind the movie
twenty one because he was so brilliant at counting cards
that he got in trouble in Las Vegas. He has
become his own industry of a gambling professional. And he
was on the other day and he said, you know,
nobody in their right mind goes into a game with

(33:12):
big money that they don't know the participants. And these
people were showing up and not knowing that the other
players and not knowing that they were that they were criminal.
So you know, and that is you know, buyer beware.
It's stupid. But it also then it's not just that
the person who lost the money as a victim, but

(33:32):
then it can turn into other systems being victimized, as
we are seeing with the spread into shaving points or
whatever inside information can be transferred to the gamblers, they
can make more money on games.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
Amazing incredible sums of money. We're talking to Clay Mason,
retired FBI agent specialized in white collar crime, and Clay
and I did not know each other, but basically, we
were in school at the same time, and you were
heading for a law school in a career in the FBI.
And you might remember this, but back in the mid seventies,

(34:10):
when Kentucky was going through a bizarre football season in
nineteen seventy five, when the Wildcats were supposed to be
heading for a bowl game and then kept losing games
in the weirdest ways, and suddenly people were out there
spreading rumors about it. Oh they were shaving. They're being
investigated for point shaving, which they were not. And when
I was working for the school paper, I remember we

(34:31):
spoke to somebody at one of the casinos in Vegas,
and there weren't that many casinos back then, there were
a bunch, but they told us, look you, We said,
are the Kentucky games still on the board? They said yes.
They said if we even suspected anything weird was going on,
we would take them off the board. And this goes
back to something you said earlier in our conversation tonight

(34:55):
that the people who run the gambling operations they have
a pretty good way of keeping track of things, don't
They They investigate, they don't have powers of subpoena or arrest.
But they know how to track these things.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Right, Oh yeah, they they can. They can see money
coming in on a particular player or an output of
a game, and that's how they called the NBA referee.
There were there were spikes in money going in on

(35:29):
games that he was officiating. And it's the same thing
with what's happened here with players that you know, people
start betting the under one number of rebounds averaged and
they think, Okay, the guy's not trying very hard, right
or and so that's that's what catches them. But again
it's they catch it, but then you still got a

(35:53):
lag and when the enforcement kicks in, You're right, they
don't have subpoena power. Las Vegas doesn't have subpoena power.
Ether does, exactly. And that's why that's why these cases
were then back burnered or dropped until law enforcement gets
involved and they can subpoena records and get the phone records,

(36:15):
get the bank records and everything like that. That substantiates
that these people are doing this. You know that that's
when a case could be made, but not just based
on the rumors of the NCAA and investigation.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
And that's what I keep trying to I kept trying
to tell people for years they can't and don't investigate
this stuff. They're not cops. A couple of minutes left
with Clay Mason, and you know, it just breaks your heart.
I think back to the guy who was the Alabama
baseball coach who got fired because he had thrown in
with a friend. And this guy as a former Kentucky assistant,

(36:50):
I know, the guy I was very friendly with, Brad Bullhannan,
who was they in terms of his education, a brilliant guy,
and somehow got swept up in all of this. And
all you can say is is just sheer greed?

Speaker 2 (37:03):
You know, yes, yes, it is sheer greed. And you
know that's one of the oldest motivators in the history
of mankind is greed. So that's it just takes over.
And you know, we know at the end of every
ad for Draft Kings or whoever, they very quick read

(37:27):
this statement about if you have a gambling problem, go
seek help. Well, they acknowledge that gambling can be a problem.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, but who latches onto that at the end of
those commercials and says, by golly, they're right, you know
that ain't rock bottom, brother, is it?

Speaker 2 (37:44):
No, it is not. It is not. Rock bottom is
when somebody's beating you up or breaking your kneecaps proverbly
because you've got a debt can't repay, or slapping cuffs
on you or slapping cuffs.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
Yes, yeah, well, Claire, I appreciate the time as all,
and I'm sure we'll stay in touch over this. It's
it's heartbreaking fascinating at the same time. And this is,
I sadly, I believe, is the tip of the proverbial iceberg,
isn't it.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
I think so. I think so. It's I read probably
ten years ago an NCAA study that anonymously surveyed athlete
in college and they were already gambling. You know, they
would admit to gambling. Golfers were the first or the

(38:33):
highest percentage to gamble on every hole, you know, put
a dollar down or whatever on making this putt. And
it's just it's just endemic in the society.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
And now it's I'm sure spread through the high school ranks.
Oh yeah, I'm going to hear a lot more about it, Clay.
Thank you so much. Brother. We'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
Okay, thank you.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Dick coming up next, in our number two unforgettable Guard
Sean Woods, and our West End Bureau chief Gary Moore
here on The Big Blue Siders six thirty.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
Likely taken.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Thing welcome back to the Big Blue and sider joining

(40:59):
us now as he does each and every Wednesday, is
the unforgettable Guard Sean Woods. He has his jersey hanging
in the raptors of Rup. Of course, it is also
the head coach at Scott County High School. We're going
to talk about those cardinals here in a couple of minutes,
but Shawn, I wanted to ask you about something that
Mark Pope said. He has said it a couple times.
He said it after the Purdue game, and you can

(41:19):
shed some light on things as a professional coach. He
talked about the fact that one thing he liked is
while the ball might not have been going into the
basket as frequently as he would have liked, he said
when things were breaking down, his players tried to solve
things the way they are taught, he said, our way,
instead of reverting basically to what has been so successful

(41:43):
for them individually through the years. And as I said
earlier on the show, I don't know that I would
even see what he's talking about. I know you would,
but could you explain to people a little bit about
how that works and why that is so valuable to
a coach and a coaching staff. You guys work so
hard to put in schemes and systems, and you know

(42:05):
you don't see players going to eye to heck with it.
I'm gonna do what I need to do to get
the ball in the hole. Big picture stuff, you know.

Speaker 7 (42:12):
Well, I think that starts with not just what he's
teaching them, but also in recruiting. He recruited guys that
came from winning programs that have been well coached, so
you know when things are broken down, even when they
played at their other schools, they knew, you know what
I mean, to just stay the course and stay disciplined
because a lot of times, you know, when things break

(42:33):
down and and and the other team is defending you
well and stopping you from doing your stuff. You know,
some people you know, dedate from, especially players who are
not disciplined. You know, they'll start doing their own thing,
get out of control, and that's exactly what the defense
wants you to do. But because he has so many
veteran players that have won't come from really good, decent programs,

(42:54):
have been well coached, they're used to it. So kudos
to the per so now that he's got and also
kudos to working on those situations in practice when things
don't go well, to just stay with it and sooner
or later the breakdown and you'll get what you want.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
How much do you run into that shown on the
high school level, kids that are just now really learning
the intricacies of the game, but they know what works
for them on the playground or in middle school or
something like that.

Speaker 7 (43:24):
Oh, it's it's it's I have to teach all the
time that it's not taught, you know, I mean, especially
in high school. You know, that's that's the problem that
you get when you get freshmen that are coming in.
You know, they're just so highly talented, and they're talented,
but they really don't know how to play within schemes
and then in that situation because they've been the best player,

(43:44):
so when things break down, they're the ones who try
to go get a bucket.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Yeah, yeah, so you know.

Speaker 7 (43:49):
What I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
When they come.

Speaker 7 (43:50):
But when you got so many veteran players that come
from good programs, they stay disciplined enough to know to
just stay with it, stay with us, and later we're
going to shot o. Thefens is trying to force us
because they're taking away the first option, the second option,
and we'll be made with the third option within the
thirty five second chakla. So you know what I'm saying.
So that that's what Mark was proud of. You know,

(44:11):
they didn't get out of control, nobody got you know,
try to go one on one too many times. But
he does have a one on one player and a
freshman named Jaster Johnson. If you ever get him to
play defense, he is one guy that can go get
a bucket when you need it.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Well, that's a process. So isn't it getting freshmen to
play defense you want?

Speaker 7 (44:28):
Yeah, you know you're gonna you're gonna live and die
with some freshman mistake, especially on the defensive end. And
then also is he going to know when to go
get one and when not to uh, you know, because
he likes to dance with it and settle for threes.
So you know that that's but he showed great promise
because the shots were going in. What is going to
happen when the shots aren't falling and he's playing against

(44:50):
some more physical defenders, so that that that gets better
in time. But because there's so much, so many veteran
players that he's got, And that's the beauty of the
transfer portal. You know, you don't just go get a
guy that's a big time score. You go get a
guy that's come from a winning program that knows how
to win. And I thought they did a good job
of getting the transfers that come from decent programs that

(45:10):
know how to win and know how to stay disciplined
and stay of the course when things aren't going well.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
And they've got to be the right people. And you
and I talked about this back in the summer that
when you're vetting players you've been on both ends, the
college and now the high school. It's vital that everybody's honest.
I mean, I know that, you know, people want to
see as a high school coach. Coaches want to see
their kids move up. Oh he's a great player, coach,

(45:35):
you're gonna love him, when in fact he might be
a problem child. But everybody needs to be on the
up and up, don't they no doubt about it.

Speaker 7 (45:43):
You know, when I'm recruiting a kid, I'm telling asking
the coach, tell me about his character, you know when
things go wrong? You know, how does he act? Can
he take constructive criticism?

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Well?

Speaker 7 (45:52):
How does he act when things aren't going his way?
When he can't make a shot or the team's double team?
Does he get frustrated? Does he make other players on
his team better? You know, those are things that you
have to take in consideration. And you know they show
some great promise with that, just because of their experience
and where they come from.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Seem Newton used to tell me that he would talk
to a kid's high school coach, the assistant coaches, whatever
he said. Then I go talk to the English teacher
or somebody like that, you know, who likes the kid,
or maybe doesn't like the kid but doesn't have a
skin in the basketball game. You know, I don't know
if you can do that in this day and age.
With something similar, I would think would have to be invaluable.

Speaker 7 (46:36):
Right, Oh, no doubt about it. You're trying to find
out everything about that kid from a character standpoint, because
you win with great character. Yeah, you know, you don't
win with just talent. You know, most talented, most national
championship teams have great character. More so than they have
just talent.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
You mentioned Jasper and of course he spent some time
at point guard, and you know a little something about
that position. What did you see from him and anybody
else who is running a point for Kentucky the other night.

Speaker 7 (47:03):
Well, I didn't see a lot of playmaking done. But
I saw a lot of just you know, being solid.
You know, Jasper show that he can score the basketball.
But I didn't see making other people better. I didn't
see breaking down the defense and creating easy shots for
others off your penetration and kicking and things like that.
So that still remains to be seen from the point
guard situation, you know, from a playmaker standpoint, I didn't think,

(47:24):
to be honest with you, Dick, I was not impressed
with Purdue. Yeah, I was not impressed with Purdue at all,
and offensively or defensively. I just think that, you know,
it's too early for them. I don't think Matt Painter's
got everything in like he wants to, you know, would
love to have. And then two, it's hard when you're

(47:46):
not really in the thick of things to come in
the rep arena of be Kentucky. No, not too many
teams in America today, start today or last Friday. I
don't care how what the school is, can come into
Kentucky no matter what the situation is and beat them
right now, There's just no way, you know. So you
got to throw that in. And then Purdue couldn't make
any shots. Normally they shoot much better than they did.

(48:08):
You know, you could predicate some of that to the defense,
but Purdue got some open shots that just didn't fall.
They were missing layups and everything. So you know, you
take all that in consideration, and then too, Matt Painter
has forgotten about I'm sure he's wire to feelm and
you know, he's gotten a lot of detailed stuff about
what they need to work on. But I promise you
after the next game he already forgot about Kentucky because

(48:30):
he's just an exhibition game. Nobody really is at full
tilt right now with organization having all their stuff in
being more repetitious the right now. But you know, sooner
or later, Purdue is still going to be one of
the top teams in America. They got everybody back. But
just the other night, you know what I'm saying, you're
not practicing, and you know it's too early in the season.

(48:50):
I mean, the season is getting early and earlier, and
I guarantee you Matt doesn't have everything in and I'm
sure Mark doesn't either. But it was good enough to
be at home, which was good. You know, tables could
have been turned if we'd gone down to mac the
Arena up the Rack Arena in west Ofthet. So yeah,
you know, but what you got the film and you
know what you need to work on. But that's you know,

(49:11):
the things that everybody's impressed with is that we won,
you know, and and two young guys really shows up,
you know, but that's without any scouting, any preparation, you
know what I'm saying, So that you know you because
you went into a game blind and whoever makes the
most shots is gonna win the game. In a situation
like that, Sean.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
Woods is our guests. We'll come back and talk more
basketball with Unforgettable Guard here on the Big Moon Side
or six thirty WLAP Welcome back. We're talking with Sean
Woods as we do each and every week. He is
the unforgettable Guards. Jersey hangs in the raptors of Rup,
the head coach of Scott County High School and earlier
today Sean, you took one of your classes on a
field trip. I guess, just trying to share with them

(49:55):
the outside world how things work. Tell everybody about that
as part of the ongoing education process. And this had
what to do with basketball.

Speaker 7 (50:03):
Yeah, I'm the jag instructor uh for for Scott County
High School. Jobs for American graduates, so we you know,
everybody doesn't go to college, so you know, you try
to get them in situations where they get a trade,
start a career without going to a four year school
and and still be able to make a living. And
also you teach them how to get those jobs. You know,

(50:24):
you create, bring people in and teach them how to
do resumes, You teach them how to interview for jobs.
You bring in different things, and you try to you know,
establish and creative thinking with them with shark tank or
or shark tank things, you know, doing a shark tank

(50:46):
I'm sorry and things like that. So you know, it
challenges them, but it also sets them up for a
career earlier than just going to college and and really
teaching them what the real world is all about. How
you pay bills, do a checking account, you know, things
like that. So it's really gratifying for me because it's
still coaching, but you know, just teach them how to

(51:06):
how to live in everyday life without going to college
for the most part.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
How gratifying has that been for you?

Speaker 7 (51:14):
It's surprisingly more gratifying than I thought, because I'm already
seeing a difference in these kids. You know, some of
these kids, you know, feel like they don't have any
hope from their households and things like that comes from
tough environments. But when they see that, you know that
they can make a change and make a difference and
be somebody outside of their own home and somebody actually

(51:36):
loving them and taking the time to teach them how
to pay a bill, you know, how to keep a
checking account, how to do a resume, how to talk
and present yourself in certain situations on a professional level,
and they gain more confidence. And that's what we were
trying to teach here, especially with jaggers, to create major
confidence kids that have low self esteem and don't know
where they're going because they don't feel like they're smart

(51:58):
enough or like school enough to to go to college.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
Yeah. Well, and you're right, college is not for everybody.
There are a lot of jobs out there and of course,
the cost of college is just insane. I can't imagine
what it's gonna be like for my granddaughters when they're
old enough. But opening up different vistas to them has
got to be just really rewarding for you and teachers

(52:21):
and my daughter, as you know, teachers high school. So
did they have anything like that when you were in
high school?

Speaker 7 (52:28):
I went to Cathedral High School. We had a lot
of things, but we didn't have a program called JAG.
But JAG is nationwide now and most states are having it.
The state of Indiana is thinking about shutting it down
because it's a state funded organization. But it has a
major impact. And you know, I'm now the face of it,

(52:50):
and I've taken full responsibility of how it should be
and I've jumped in with two feet and it's been
very gratifying to me thus far.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
Did it surprise you that it was? Is that gratifying?

Speaker 6 (53:02):
It?

Speaker 7 (53:02):
Did?

Speaker 2 (53:02):
It did?

Speaker 7 (53:03):
Because you know, when you when you're a high school coach,
you know you got to teach, you got to do
other things. And now I was not, you know, into that,
that was not my mindset. But and I never thought,
you know, being in a classroom where you know, I
would like that, but this is a totally different thing.
I'm not teaching English, math, or social studies or science
and things like that. I'm teaching life skills. And how

(53:26):
many times have I been in an interview process, you know,
trying to get a job. You know how many times
I've had to change my resume, you know for that job,
coaching job, you know what I mean? And you know
talking to those ads and president. So from my experience,
you know, I can now know it from a coaching
standpoint of being in college, but also from a working
standpoint of how you go get those jobs right. You

(53:47):
know my experience, I can you know, passing on to
these junsters.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Let me share you back to basketball for one more topic,
because Michael Jordan is becoming more visible now he's working
with the NBC and you know, on on some of
the NBA coverage, but he was quoted as as basically
saying he's not happy with this load management business in
the NBA. And Charles Barkley has not been shy about

(54:13):
that at all, talking about the money that people make,
you know, compared to what they used, and they made
a nice living, but they never even thought about taking
a night off if you had two games in a
row or you know, the load management quote unquote. I
can't imagine anybody even suggesting that to you when you
were coming up and now as a coach, but as

(54:34):
it also as a fan. What are your thoughts on.

Speaker 7 (54:37):
That, you want to be real honest? Please, Society has
softened people, especially young people. We're they're making more money
and working less. Yeah, they don't know what what struggle is.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
You know.

Speaker 7 (54:56):
They don't like being uncomfortable. We grew up being comfortable,
being uncomfortable, and nowadays everybody just wants to stay comfortable,
and it's ruining our society because it's it's it's going
all the way down to to to elementary school, middle school,
high school, college, and even young adults now because they're

(55:19):
starting to become adults and society is changing and it's
not changing for the good, you know. And the NBA
is is so disappointing now with the characters in it,
and they're superstars who want load management and things like that.
You got college coaches doing that, you know, and I'm

(55:39):
not want to talk about coach Pope, but last year
he was doing it. You know, you only can you
only you know your your your body can you know
they they trace you know your heart rate and things
like that. If your heart rate gets to a certain point,
you stop. Well, I ain't never heard of that. I
thought every kid is supposed to be be trained to
last a whole game. You know, you don't train a

(55:59):
kid play ten minutes a game. Who does that? And
a lot of coaches are doing that now and all
you're doing is just trying to keep them around. But
you're not. You're still getting beat because you're you're not
maximizing that kid's ability, stamining and so on and so forth.
Eventually you're gonna get beat anyway. So being a nice guy,
if they don't like you or like you, they still
going to transfer if they want to, if they get

(56:20):
more money at another place, or you know what I'm saying,
You might as well get as much as you can
out of them and squeeze all the juice out of
the turn them to win as many games, and try
to be as successful as you possibly can instead of
trying to save or something, just so they can come
into practice with a smile on their face every day.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
But you can make the argument that they can maximize
their ability by monitoring, you know, the physical traits of
the players. You know the if you save a little
bit here, you can use it down the road. But
I think what you're talking about now as a mindset,
aren't you?

Speaker 7 (56:52):
Well it is and guess what else, there's more injuries
now than ever before that. Yeah, so their bodies are
getting softer.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
Yeah, in the NBA go from zero to Yeah, you.

Speaker 7 (57:00):
Can't go from zero to one hundred and ten. You
can't sit on your butt for two days and then
come back and play in a high, high, high tank
game because you didn't play the two games beforehand, and
then you want to play in the major game and
then you want to go from doing nothing to now
you got to play at a peak level. That's what
causes injuries. And all these kids are getting hurting.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
Out and in the league. Obviously they're trying to protect
themselves because they're making such insane money. And my feeling is, look,
you've got the money, you know you signed the NBA
contracts are the best there are, and yet they're always
looking at that next contract, aren't they exactly?

Speaker 7 (57:36):
And you're trying to save for that. Come on, making
now you're doing a shot you're cheating all the ticket
holders and things like that. They're paying money to watch
the superstars play. So when they show up to that game,
which they've already paid for the ticket, and the kid
doesn't play or the young man doesn't play, then everybody's
pissed off. And you wonder why the ratings are going
down in the NBA right now because the NBA is

(57:57):
so soft and so watered down. You know, everybody's savoring
What are you savoring for? Yeah, you know, and all
these guys they're they're they're they're they're teaming up, and
guess who's getting fired the coach.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
And the NBA. Also, I saw an NBA player talk,
a former player talk about just everybody's now doing the
two man game, pick and roll, clear out and it's
just not nearly as entertaining as it's been in the past.
And uh need to see more of that Golden State
Warriors kind of play, don't.

Speaker 7 (58:23):
We, Yeah, no doubt about it. Do you see do
you see Draymond Green taking days off?

Speaker 1 (58:29):
Right?

Speaker 7 (58:30):
You know what I'm saying, give me, give me the gladiators.
I want the gladiators, I hear you, you know, because
guess what every day. I'm judged on wins and losses,
whether who plays or not. Yeah, yeah, And it's so
harsh on the coach when the coach walks in and say, oh,
Johnny done so like playing today? How's that? How's that
coach feel?

Speaker 1 (58:48):
I hear you, coach, Thank you so much. We will
talk to you next week.

Speaker 7 (58:53):
Okay, Dick, good talking to you, buddy up next.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
Gary Moore, our West End bureau chief here on the
Big Doing Sider six thirty. But you're welcome back to
the Big Moonsider. Are joining us now as he does
each and every Wednesdays scheduling permitting is our West End
Bureau chief, Gary Moore, West Coast Bureau chief for many
many years in KALOS Radio now is in the La
Louisville area and joined us every Wednesday with a lot

(59:16):
on his mind.

Speaker 8 (59:18):
Two guys, you and me and a six pack, six
things to talk about, six swigs as they were, and
you know what the first one's gonna be. Don't need
to bury the lead game five your fall classic. At
the end of this hour, Dodgers and Blue Jays all
tied up at two games apiece. Because blue Jays won
last night. They got to a very tired Otani and

(59:38):
of course the bullpen. Once you get to the Dodgers' bullpen,
forget it. Which all this means, by the way, that
if the Dodgers end up winning this World Series, ain't
gonna happen at Chavez Ravine. And that hasn't happened, Dick.
Since nineteen sixty three, the Dodgers have been I believe
a nine now World Series, and the ones they've won
have always been on the road. Wow, it happens again.

(01:00:02):
It'll be on the road this time. But people are
still talking about the epic eighteen inning, six hour, thirty
nine minute game on Monday Night.

Speaker 7 (01:00:09):
You stay up for that?

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Did I see it? Absolutely? I did. Indeed I did not.

Speaker 8 (01:00:14):
I did not because I've been there and I've done
one of those already.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Seven years ago.

Speaker 8 (01:00:19):
Yes, I was covering the twenty eighteen World Series. That's right,
k Los Game three. I'm still worn out from that game. Okay,
the longest seven hours and twenty minutes for that sucker
Monday Night. Though nineteen combined pitchers, they threw six hundred
and nine pitches all together, three hundred and ninety seven
for strikes. By the way, for those keeping score at home,

(01:00:39):
Blake Snell and Trey you Savage tonight, then you got
Yamamoto and Gosman on Halloween night. Which way, my friend,
are you leaning in this series?

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
You know, I was thinking Dodgers in six, maybe five,
but and I had followed a little bit the Blue Jays.
But hearing the people who have covered them all year
talk about the fact that this is what they do.
They put the ball in play. To use Mark Stoops's word,
they stress you, you know, they they forced you to play,

(01:01:08):
They force you to make plays. The Dodgers made all
the plays in the eighteen inning game, defensively made the
plays and stayed in it long enough for show Hey
to pull them back in it. And I, honestly, Gary,
I knew. I just had a feeling that that game
would end on a home run. And I was rewarded
last night when I heard Smaltz talk about that he

(01:01:30):
is so good, by the way, but he talked about
the fact that people change their approaches at the plate
late in the game. And I've seen this in the
college games. I've seen this in the pros. Everybody swinging
from the heels, trying to end it with one swing
and you saw it when you were working out there,

(01:01:50):
and that eighteen inning game seven years ago. Every time
the ball would be lifted in the air, and this
happened the other night, fans will go nuts thinking it
was going to say the ball part, yeah, yeah. And
in fact that Joe Davis on Fox at one point
thought the game was over and overcalled a fly ball
that he thought was a home run. But and he
admitted it, and so he was a little more reserved

(01:02:12):
on the game winner by Freeman. But I would not
be at all surprised if the Blue Jays kept getting
into that Dodger bullpen and ended up taking the trophy
back to Canada for the first time in thirty one years.

Speaker 8 (01:02:25):
Me either me either our second swig. Let's talk college football,
Diket's been said before, maybe even by you a few times.
UK football like that box of chocolates. You never know
what you're going to get weak to week besides another
SEC loss. The question is will the defense be great
and the offense struggle? Or will the offense shine and
will the defense stink? Is it asking too much for

(01:02:48):
both to occur simultaneously?

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Well, apparently it.

Speaker 8 (01:02:50):
Is talking about good things there, So why should things
change Saturday night at Auburn seven thirty sec networking course
right here on WLAP.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Would I be.

Speaker 8 (01:02:59):
Surpris if UK wins despite being ten and a half underdogs,
frankly yes. Would I be surprised if UK wins three
out of the next five, pleasantly yes? And would I
be surprised if UK wins maybe just one more out
of the next five that won being Tennessee Tech, No,
I would not be surprised. Am I a realist or
a pessimist or both?

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
Probably a little bit of both. But I find that
the point spread really fascinating because, as I understand it,
Kentucky was only a seven and a half point dog
to Tennessee. Now, of course this was intelectionon and the
game at Auburn. You got to tack on three points
for home field advantage, but take it away, and that
means people are looking at Auburn basically the same way

(01:03:43):
they look at Tennessee when the Tennessee game was a
terrible matchup. It almost always is. Just the way Kentucky plays.
The lack of depth and the secondary linebackers have not
been super good this year. Auburn has had a difficult
time this year needed Arkansas's helped to win that game
last week in faith. Arkansas turned it over four times

(01:04:06):
in the fourth quarter, leaning to an Auburn win, and
still Auburn had to play its right off. Yeah, so
I'm a little surprised by that spread, and I think
it's a better matchup for Kentucky. But Auburn's got a
much better defense than Tennessee does. So Cutter Bowley and
the crew and the gang, they've got to make plays

(01:04:27):
the way they did honestly against Tennessee as well as Texas.

Speaker 8 (01:04:31):
Right third, twig, let's talk about U of L on
some other games. As for the Cardinals, Number sixteen Cardinals,
they traveled to three and five Virginia Tech. Cards are
ten to a half point favorites three o'clock Saturday on the
ced W network. Now before that, there's a couple of
games at high noon that look like must see TV
at least for me. Number nine Vandy at number twenty Texas.

(01:04:52):
The Horns at last look are point and a half
favorites in Austin that'll be on the national television ABC TV.
And are we all sitting down here? Good number ten
Miami actually leaving the state of Florida to play a
football game this season for the first time. Cayne's are
your twelve and a half point favorites at SMU that's

(01:05:12):
on ESPN at high noon, then three thirty number five
Georgia and Florida and the cocktail party on ABC seven thirty.
You got number eighteen Oklahoma at that number fourteen ugly
Orange school down I seventy five balls are favorite in
that one the big game. I want to ask you
about those Vandy with a slight underdog at Texas. If
arch Manning is not playing, should Vandy be the favorite then.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
Probably so, But as we all know, arch Manning has
been to some disappointment at the very least underwhelming. And
the kid Michael Calwell who's playing for his fourth school,
who stepped in Jackson State, Gardner Webb, I can't remember
his third school, and then Texas, but he leads Texas

(01:05:58):
to that overtime win last week. Texas will win with
defense if it does beat Vanderbilt. But how do you
corral Diego Pavia and I may have mentioned this to
you before I know I've talked about it. I thought
one of the greatest lines I've ever heard about that
kid is how do you defend against a guy when
even he doesn't know what he's going to do next.
That's exactly right, it is. He's Johnny Manziel with a

(01:06:21):
super high football IQ and a great leader. But I'll
tell you what, As always, it's cliche, but this game
will be won in the trenches. That's where Vandy excels.
Vanderbilt has built on both sides of the ball. Now,
their defense isn't as good as Texas, but it's darn good.

(01:06:42):
And so the Longhorns have got to figure out a
way to keep Diego on the sidelines where a lot
of folks in burn Orange are going to go home
disappointed and Bevo is going to hang his head.

Speaker 8 (01:06:54):
Could come down to special teams too.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Yeah, that's true too, and if it does, you gotta
want look in Vandy, the smart art school, they're not
going to pun So that kid who beat up ball
Man beat Kentucky right right right exactly.

Speaker 8 (01:07:08):
Our fourth swig here, stay in college football because there's
a lot we don't know in college football. Will you
can't win any games the rest of the way this
season against power forour teams? Well, Archie Manning, how will
he play if he comes out of the concussion protocol.
And the big question though facing everybody this week, how
the hell does a fiscal flop like Scott Woodwards still.

Speaker 7 (01:07:30):
Have a job.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
Thank you, good God.

Speaker 8 (01:07:33):
Talk about somebody else at LSU who needs firing besides
hothead Kelly. And by the way, I never got that higher.
I think we may have talked about this before. What
kind of a dope, especially with that name coaching the
Irish Kelly? How do you leave the mecca of college
football unless you're really going for the money, As Paula

(01:07:53):
Levine reported an ESPN, with Kelly's fifty four million buyout,
the amount of money owned it FBS football coaches fired
this season so far one hundred and sixty seven point
seven million dollars. Way to fail up, guys. Here's something
else we don't know about. What percentage of those infinitely

(01:08:15):
irresponsible bucks are actually being paid by the schools rather
than the boosters with deep pockets. I say none of them.
I think boosters are paying for all of these things,
don't you? And how many ridiculously rich boosters at LSU
and Penn State and Florida, et cetera, et cetera are
backing whoever the next coaches at those schools with their

(01:08:37):
wallets in case it all goes south again. I think
they're all probably backing them at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
I just want to end. Plus we've talked about this before.
How how many.

Speaker 8 (01:08:45):
Shoe companies or what shoe companies, if any, are involved
in all of this stuff?

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
Where is it?

Speaker 8 (01:08:49):
Our best investigative journalist? Would you want to know the
backstory on all of this stuff?

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
I think it'll come out, although Adidas has denied having
any part in the James Franklin dismissal at Penn State.
And look, if the boosters are willing to pony up,
if you're a shoe company, you just sit back and
keep your hands in your pockets and say, well, we'll
see how this plays out. But to your original point,
Woodward also paid off Jimbo Fisher at a end. So

(01:09:17):
this is nuts and they turn around, and you know,
Indiana learns nothing and hires Kurt Singer, extends Kurt Signetti
to a record setting contract. But somewhere, cooler heads, you'd
think would prevail. But now when it comes to college football,
all right, is there such a thing as a cooler
head in college football?

Speaker 8 (01:09:39):
Well, we've seen how this billionaire has been exposed for
he's going to pay the military, you know, all this
money during the government.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
Shutdown, right, you know who that is.

Speaker 8 (01:09:49):
Let's find out who some of these guys are that
are pooning up all the bucks.

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
It reminds me of when Lee Todd was the president
here and they had to hire. First, they had to
fire hel Mummy, where they hired Guy Morris as the
head coach. They signed Guy mo to four individual one
year contracts so that if they had to fire him
in the future, they wouldn't have to pay him off
because Lee Todd hated having to pay how mommy not

(01:10:16):
the coach. But then one UK ran off to a
four and zero record and Guy Morris was the hottest
property in the country. Mitch Barnard stepped in guaranteed the
contracts guaranteed all four years and quote unquote locked him
down and then he left for Baylor. Right, So what
does it matter? I think those will start to come
back in some way. Maybe so, But who would sign

(01:10:38):
that because how do you recruit on a one year contract? Yeah?

Speaker 8 (01:10:42):
Maybe fourth the most. All right, let's talk NFL football
or fifth swig First, I've got to ask Alexa something here, Dick, Hey, Alexa,
Amazon messed something up. I distinctly did not order a
two and five team versus a two and six team
tomorrow night.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
Can you fix that? Can I get a refine?

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
Hello?

Speaker 7 (01:11:01):
All right?

Speaker 8 (01:11:01):
I think we're stuck with that stupid game tomorrow night.
But of course it's football. We'll watch, right, yep. How
about Sunday after a bunch of meh matchups? How about
these for your backside? Vikings at the Lions. Detroit's a
big favorite in that game. Broncos at the Texans, Texans
a slide favorite. Colts at the Steelers, Colts looking to
win that one. They're favored. This is an afternoon game.

(01:11:23):
I think they're going to flex this for Sunday night.

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
They should.

Speaker 8 (01:11:25):
Chiefs at the Bills and Kansas City's a two point
favorite in that one. The Sunday night games kind of crummy.
My Seahawks at Washington. Of course I'll be watching it.
The Hawks are favored. And then Monday night you got
the Cardinals at the Cowboys. Also Monday over here, U
of L basketball South Carolina State against the Cardinals. Also
down the I sixty five Tennessee Tech at WKA, Unicorse Tuesday,

(01:11:47):
You've got Nickel State there at UK. All kinds of
stuff happening.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
Through the most wonderful time of the year, isn't it.
It is that Vikings Lions game was supposed to be
a real marquee and a course Minnesota with quarterback issues. Denver,
how about and Houston both two of the surprise teams.
But Indy with Jonathan Taylor's going touchdowns. He just scored
another one a minute ago, you know, against the Pittsburgh team.

(01:12:16):
That gave my Packers a little bit of trouble. But yeah,
that case Buffalo game again was supposed to be a
marquee matchup, but they both looked like mere mortals. But
it's kind of fun, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (01:12:25):
I love looking at that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:12:28):
Sixth and final Twig Dick seventy years ago. Seventy years ago,
a guy with maybe the greatest name ever in all
of sports was drafted by the Pittsburgh Steelers and I
believe the ninth round of nineteen fifty five, and he
was cut before throwing a single pass. But he kept
playing semi pro ball for sixty bucks a game, hoping
for another shot of the NFL, which he got the

(01:12:50):
next year at a Baltimore cult tryout. Head coach weab
U Bank liked him, picked him as a backup to
a George Shaw, and he put him in for his
first game through a pick six, first ever pro pass.
Ugh Shaw got hurt, and this backup quarterback stepped in
never looked back. Of course, quarterback with the great name
Johnny Unitas. I bring all this up because his college

(01:13:13):
hometown newspaper over here at the Career Journal this week
published one hundred and eight Uniteds photos ranging from when
his Colts played the Bears at the Fairgrounds over here
in Louisville in a nineteen fifty seven exhibition game these
and they're black and white, but they're absolutely golden. They
also got you through his Hall of Fame days with

(01:13:33):
the Colts and then later with the Chargers, and then
we came back to Louisville a few times in the eighties. Dick,
you and I know what John Unitus meant the football fans,
But how would you describe him to a seventeen year old, hotshot,
dual threat quarterback today.

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
I would tell them, think about a quarterback who called
his own plays. Didn't have the green dot on his helmet,
led his team to ump team comebacks, last minute, two
minute drill comebacks, and was as tough as it got.
That was Johnny U, and until Brady won I think
his fifth Super Bowl, I maintained that United was the

(01:14:09):
greatest QB of all time. I had to grudgingly give
way to Brady. Although back in the day, Johnny U
didn't have all the rules that protected qbs now and receivers.
They could play bump and run all the way down
the field ye d Lyman could use their hands as
clubs and there was no legal ass holding, and Johnny

(01:14:30):
and I as still got it done. So from my money,
for the longest time, he was the best he is.
Gary Moore will come back with some hot regions just
a moment here on the Big Blue Sider six thirty WLAP.
Welcome back Gary Moore as our guest. We have gone
through two guys in a six pack. Time for a
couple of hot reeds. Gary Jude mcadamnee. That name made

(01:14:52):
mean nothing to pro football fans unless you're a Giants fan.
He's the kicker who missed the extra points plural against Denver,
enabling the Broncos to come back and win by a
point as time expired a couple of weeks ago. Is
he like the Moonlight Graham, only worse for pro football?
Will he'd be a grandfather? Granddad? Did you really play

(01:15:15):
in the NFL?

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:15:17):
Not very long? What happened, grandpa? Is anybody ever going
to sign this guy again?

Speaker 8 (01:15:23):
Probably as hard up as they are for kickers, h
and of course they love to fire him. You know,
kickers get no respect anyway. You know, they're sort of
a necessary evil, and they well, maybe they worked out more,
maybe they worked on their guns a little bit, had
some you know, had some muscle up here.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
Yeah, you might get a little more respect.

Speaker 8 (01:15:42):
But you know, it's like I think most most of
these coaches are tough guys. Get him out there.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
If he was a game yeah, you know, Kentucky had
a punter several years ago, was an All American and
he looked like a bodybuilder. I mean he was he
wasn't quite that cut, but he was muscular. He was
buff because he had come here from a D two
school where he also he punted and played linebacker, and
he loved delivering hits when he covered punts. But not

(01:16:11):
enough kickers look like him. You're right, Reggie Robi, Yeah,
oh yeah, that's right, that's right. Hot Red number two.
Gary Rolls Royce has rolled out a model called the
Phantom Centenary, twenty five of them to mark the Rolls
Royce one hundredth anniversary. The car goes with a price

(01:16:35):
tag of three million dollars. How many should he put
you down for?

Speaker 8 (01:16:43):
Does that include an XM satellite radio subscription?

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
There are strands of twenty four carrot gold in there somewhere.
I'm not an extended wheelbase. It's got everything you need.
Rear seat tapestry embroidered with more than one hundred and
sixty thousand stitches. I would have drawn the line at
one hundred and fifty thousand. You know they're gonna sell
them all. Well, yeah, of course there's a market for it.

Speaker 8 (01:17:09):
If there's a market for the world's ugliest vehicle ever made,
the cyber truck, and if we've we have more billionaires
and rap artists nowadays, of course they're going to sell this.
Of course there's a market for this. Has there ever
been a more blatant car that's screaming, yelling please carjack
me than this? Thing once she's once. I saw the

(01:17:29):
pictures of this, and here about all the details. Of course,
it is gonna be a carjacked.

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
Oh man, I didn't even thought about that. Yeah, that's
that comes from all your years you lived in Los Angeles.

Speaker 8 (01:17:38):
Yeah, white guys don't wear their Super Bowl rings or
World Series rings out in public too.

Speaker 1 (01:17:42):
Well. Those rings are so big you need a sling,
uh to hold them up. But uh yeah, this this, uh,
this is the this is the height of opulence. Right. Oh.

Speaker 8 (01:17:55):
Absolutely, I've never seen anything like this, because there hasn't
been anything like this.

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
Really really hadn't. It really hadn't. By the way, you
mentioned the college games. The Georgia Florida game used to
be huge. And now don't you think George is gonna
take every opportunity to kick dirt on this Florida program?

Speaker 7 (01:18:17):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:18:17):
Absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:18:19):
And it may be competitive for a while, but Georgia's
just too good. And I think a lot of the guys,
I think he's a lot a lot of the guys
in the Florida locker room, don't you.

Speaker 1 (01:18:30):
Yeah, yeah, And you know it's it's and you know
we talked about how I guess it was last week
Vandy top ten, Indiana top ten, the world's spinning off
its axis, and the Georgia Florida game is not the
biggest SEC game. Once again, it's Vanderbilt Texas. Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:18:48):
And then you got the okis and the balls later on, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:50):
Which could be an entertaining game, but it's an odd
time in the SEC. It is always a pleasure to
talk with mister Gary More. We can see him on
ex or Twitter or whatever you want to call it
at at nine to five to five.

Speaker 8 (01:19:04):
Gary, Always a pleasure to be on your show, and
you're also on X.

Speaker 1 (01:19:07):
At a big Blue sider one. Thank you sir. We
will talk to you next week. Have a good time
down in the planes. And that'll do it for now.
Thanks to my guest, Gary Moore, to Sean Woods and
to Clay Mason. That's a good night from the garage
in Lexington.

Speaker 8 (01:19:20):
Let me ask you this, what if the Bears were
all fourteen inches tall, you know, about about so high? Now,
what's your score today's game against the giant esk in
my handicap.

Speaker 1 (01:19:30):
Bears eighteen, Giants ten, and that would finally be a
good game. That would be a good game. Mini Bears
twenty four, giants fourteen. What about Dick Gut? Would he
be many two? No, he will be full grown. Oh
then many bears thirty one giants seven all that? Then

(01:19:52):
I changed mine too, I thought it was a mini
Dick kid.

Speaker 5 (01:20:03):
Any type set such section.

Speaker 4 (01:20:39):
Tact Can.

Speaker 5 (01:21:02):
Sackett pasthing left to back them from type don't