2025-12-11 BBI

UK players scoff at the notion of dissension in their ranks; Jamal Mashburn and Rick Pitino talk about coaching today's players; (10:00) an update on John Pelphrey's wife Tracy and her cancer battle; (19:00) ex-UK QB Derrick Ramsey on new head coach Will Stein and current QB Cutter Boley; (48:00) ex-Cat and Indiana native Jerry Hale on UK vs IU and his memories of Joe B vs Bob Knight; (1:00:00) Vandy coach Clark Lea on why the 'Dores took their playoff snub gracefully plus part of a great sports-related sketch from SNL featuring Bob Uecker...

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Big Blue and Cider. Dick Gabriel with
you in the Thursday edition of our program. Let me
start off by saying we are pre recorded, as some
of you may know on most days in the week,
and that means that UK volleyball is probably just about
finishing up right now. I wish I could share with
you what happened there, but we pre record, so I cannot.

(00:21):
My apologies, but we will talk about it obviously more
on tomorrow show. That's not ideal, but that's the hand
we're dealt right now, so we will talk primarily basketball
football here tonight. There is news of Kentucky's new football staff.
Apparently Will Stein has a new defensive coordinator, as the

(00:41):
word spread earlier today that he is hiring an assistant
away from Texas A and M to be his defensive coordinator.
Jay Bateman, who has been to DC at A and M,
was in his second season on Mike Elko's coaching staff,
coaching linebackers, but he also coached the secondary and the
d line both at North Carolina and Florida. He did

(01:05):
not call defensive plays under Elko, did have the title
Elko calls the plays, so he will apparently be calling
defensive plays once again in Lexington under Stein. So that's
more news, and that's an important new bit of information
about the UK coaching stat Bush ham Dn, the offensive

(01:26):
coordinator apparently for Mark Stoup's last couple of years, apparently
has landed on his feet. He is at Mississippi State
now as the offensive coordinator, and he has a good
resume no matter what you think of him. He did
a good job at Boise State, coached at Missoo Washington,
coach with Atlanta Falcons. And remember remember how excited you

(01:48):
were about Cutter Bowley when Cutter got the job full
time starter and began to do great things and was
developing as one of the better young qbs. Inc. See
that's bush Hamden. He adjusted the offense and was working
with Cutter Bowlie. And now he's the associate head coach

(02:08):
for offense, not just the OC, but the associate head
coach for offense at Mississippi State. So we'll check in
at some point, I'm sure with Neil Price, our buddy
who was the radio voice of Mississippi State, somewhere in
the future about bush Hamden special teams coordinator. Right now,
as your order already probably know is one of Stein's
former teammates at U of L, Justin Burke. So he'll

(02:31):
coach not only special teams but the tight ends at Kentucky.
So the staff is coming into view for will Stein.
He is not keeping Derek Shehay, who has moved on.
He is joining Mike elcho staff at Texas A and
m tight ends coach Derek sheha leaving Kentucky for Texas

(02:52):
A and M. And of course we already know that
Brad White has left Kentucky to be a part of
John Sumraw's staff down at Florida. By the way, there
is wordocbsports dot com that Stein is looking at Florida
associate head coach formerly running backs coach Jabbar Jaluki. I
think is how you say his name to be the

(03:13):
running backs coach at UK. So we'll keep you posting
on that coaching carousel spinning interesting of course, with what
happened at Michigan, and as Justin Rowland have catched illustrated
pointed out in this day and age, you got to
keep an eye on that Michigan story because you don't
know who's jumping into the portal. Now, how many Michigan
players might be looking for someplace new and maybe they

(03:36):
think Lexington Kentucky is a good fit. So justin ahead
of the game on that one, I have to admit
basketball wildcatch of course, have Indiana coming up later on.
We're going to talk with Jerry Hale, Indiana native who
chose to play at Kentucky and was on that super
Kitten squad that signed with Joe B. Hall. Was part
of that team that upset Indiana in the Mid East

(03:57):
Regional in nineteen seventy five, having on to the final four.
We were Kevin Greevy's comments earlier this week about that,
but I wanted to talk to Jerry about it as well,
being an Indiana native. So that's coming up in our
number two at the bottom of the hour, Derek Ramsey
will join us, the former UK quarterback, to talk football.
But we're going to talk basketball here because of course

(04:17):
the Cat's playing Indiana coming up, and while trying to
follow up that NC Central performance with a similar performance
in a much tougher game against IU, and they are
playing through all kinds of negative thoughts and comments and rumors.
It's almost like some people are trying to will this

(04:39):
to be true that there's dissension on the team and
that's why they're not playing well and all this, and
Jeff Drummond of Cats Illustrated, among others, talked to some
of the players after the win over in c Central,
including Trent Noah and Jasper Johnson, and Noah talked about
the fact that they are a close team and he

(05:01):
thinks it'll pay off in the end.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
I mean, we just got to get we just got
to get back to ourselves.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
I mean, we dropped a couple of bad ones and
then we're just trying to figure out how to use
that and help us grow because I mean, we have
a long season ahead, we're super talented, we're super close,
and kind of just just just still just still working
the gears and we'll figure things out. I mean tonight
was a good step, and then we got another big
one on Saturday.

Speaker 4 (05:23):
Trent, you said we're super close.

Speaker 5 (05:26):
I don't know how much of the noise you you hear,
especially coming off a bad loss like Friday, But there's
speculation out there that this team is not close and
there's some kind of problem behind the scenes. Can you
kind of can you dismiss that that?

Speaker 3 (05:41):
I haven't seen that personally, but that is that is
not true.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
I mean I feel like we're kind of right now.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
Off these losses, we kind of it's kind of bringing
us closer together. I mean, we're such a like it's
so cliche to say every team wants to be a
tight knit group, but I really do think that we are.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
I mean, we really do have our backs and we're.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
Continuing to learn to trust and play with each other
on the court, but off the court, I mean, these
are my best friends.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
I mean they would say the same thing about me.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
That question came from Jeff Drum when you heard him there.
He also put the same question to Jasper Johnson, the freshman,
who admitted that when it comes to the comments on
social media, he was aware of it.

Speaker 6 (06:19):
I've seen some of that other stuff, you know, where
they're trying to the fans are trying to say stuff
about us, that something's going along and wrong in the
locker room. But now our guys are really really working
to you know, get connected. You know, we're trying to
go go to the teammate's house, you know, watch the
game here and there, and you spend time with each other,
spend more quality time off the court to learn each
other better, and some of course Pope has you know,

(06:40):
got us got on us on about doing his learning
and to other outums better so that we can build
that chemistry pastor.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
But we're all building, we're growing, we're still learning each other.

Speaker 6 (06:50):
We have a lot of talented guys on the team,
so we're gonna We're gonna make his work.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Jasper Johnson has made no secret of wanting to be
one and done, and you can't blame him in this
day and age with the money the NBA's although there
is the argument they can make more by staying in school.
That's just where we are right now. And Rick Patino
appeared on TNT the other night college basketball on TNT.
Of course they lost the NBA. So Jamal Mashburn is

(07:17):
part of the studio crew that is on the air
for TNT. Mash does a nice job and one of
his co hosts they were talking to Rick Patina on
a split screen interview after a Saint John's game, and
the co host made way for Mashburn to ask a question.

Speaker 4 (07:35):
I'm going to pass the rock over to you.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Jamal asked for a former coach.

Speaker 7 (07:38):
A question, Hey, coach, this is the greatest player you're
ever coached.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
In college basketball.

Speaker 8 (07:42):
Talking to you, you got that.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Right, Interesting because Patino did coach a lot of great
players on his championship team that came up, and Mash
may have been the best of all. Anyhow, they talked
about Mashburn asked Patino about coaching these kids today.

Speaker 7 (08:02):
How has it been a transition for you in coaching
these young men.

Speaker 8 (08:05):
You know, the one thing I can tell you is
there's no difference. I told the team this the other
day when I coached a monster Mash. He was just
a gentleman, nice young man, just listened, highly intelligent. But
you know there was one or two guys in the
team that could be knuckleheads on every team. This is
like fifteen sweethearts and really great guys. But I told me,

(08:28):
they said, you're the most unfocused generation I've ever seen.
I said, I guarantee you you guys cannot read three
chapters in a book without looking at your phone.

Speaker 4 (08:37):
And they said they all.

Speaker 9 (08:38):
Shook their heads and said yes.

Speaker 8 (08:40):
So I said, scouting is about being meticulous with detail,
whether it's pro college, and you've got to really focus
in on scouting because that's what it's all about.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
Scouting is everything to Rick Patino. Camra Mills told me
that scouting reports when he played for Patino were like
two inches sick, and I may be exaggerating, but he's
said every nuance. Jim O'Brien created such great scouting reports,
and that's one of the biggest reasons why Patino had success.
That's not the only way to do things. A lot

(09:12):
of coaches prefer to concentrate on what their team is doing.
You've got to do some scouting, of course, but Patino
apparently was just miniacal about it. That could be if
Saint John's does beat Kentucky. One of the reasons that
the Red Storm has an advantage over really any team
it plays because of the scouting and the meticulous nature

(09:34):
of it that Rick Patino employs. But that's the ways off.
Indiana is coming up. Also coming up, Derek Ramsey a
little bit later on after the break, we're going to
hear from John Pelfrey an update on his wife is
going through cancer surgery, and then later on Jerry Hale,
we'll talk about Kentucky Indiana. That's next on six thirty
WLAP Welcome back to the Big Blue Insider I wanted

(09:56):
to share an update that has made the rounds on
social media if you haven't seen it. John Pelfer, who's
wife Tracy, is of course battling cola rectal cancer, and
there were so many stories about this prior to the
Kentucky Tennessee Tech game. Heelfy of course, the former wildcat,
Once a wildcat, always a wildcat, and he had a

(10:16):
lot of great things to say coming back, but first
and foremost he talked about his wife prior to the game,
and then today on social media he gave everybody an
update prior to the game. Here's the latest coming out
today when John posted on extra Twitter and I'm sure
in other platforms saying Tracy successfully completed her fourth cycle

(10:41):
of chemo. Her body has handled the treatments really well,
very little pain, mostly just fatigued. And he went into
some detail about her white blood cell count and what
the doctors have decided to do with her. But part
of that is they decided to give her an extra
week off to enjoy the holidays and a trip home
to lexingon so she could see family and friends. And

(11:04):
apparently that's already happened. John wrote that she made the
most of it, had lunch with some friends, she did
caught up with college girlfriends, and John called the trip
the perfect medicine for her. Said she got to do
plenty of shopping, even found a mother of the bride dress,
and at her favorite spots in Lexingon and hugged a

(11:27):
lot of necks and said she was genuinely overwhelmed by
how many people, some she doesn't even know, told her
that they are praying for her, and he said that
alone made the trip worth it, that it gives her
so much strength and courage. Her fifth cycle of chemo
begins coming up in four days, and then on the nineteenth,

(11:47):
she'll have a pet scan to see just how the
tumor and her colon is responding to the treatment. So
John pledges to keep us informed and says once she
completes her chemotion, she'll immediately transition to six weeks of
radiation therapy. If you know anybody who's been through this,
you know how devastating it can be physically. I mean,

(12:11):
they're they're pumping poison into the body to try to
kill another part of the body, the tumor and the colon.
But I saw a couple of people I know go
through this, and I can tell you this that attitude,
the way you approach it, based on what I saw
with them, can make so much of a difference. So

(12:33):
I know we're all rooting for John and rooting for Tracy,
and I'm pleased that he has chosen to share that
with us and to keep us posted on that sort
of thing. So many comments John made when he was here,
you know, have made the rounds on media, both traditional
and social, and I've gone through so many of them

(13:00):
have made it. You know, there's so many you couldn't
hear them all unless you pulled up the press conference.
But I'm gonna share just a couple of them. You
may have heard some of all of these, but I
just I think that they that they struck home with me,
one of these being well, the overall theme was just
how much John Pelfrey loved this place, lexing in UK,

(13:21):
being part of a team, and it reminded me, you know,
hearing him interviewed and seeing the unforgettables come back. I
remember I flashed back to a day I was sitting
on the team bus. And I'm not trying to brag
up of being an inside or anything, because I don't
even remember how I got on the team bus. This
is a Rick Patino team bus, right. I believe it

(13:43):
was their senior year. And I'm pretty sure when I
was with wk YT that I had gone on a
road trip to LSU and was producing, helping Rob Bromley
with the Coaches show and getting some things done. And
I was with the videographer on the bus and I
was talking to John and Darren and Sean and Richie,

(14:05):
and we were talking about and I was mostly listening
the guys who had left, the Chris Mills and the
old l ron Ellis's and people like that, who had
had the opportunity to leave because of the probation and
the penalties upcoming, and they decided to go their separate ways,
which was fine. And these guys were talking about what

(14:26):
kind of team they might have had if all these
guys had stuck around, And even Rex Chapman, who left
before any word of probation ever came up. But Rex
knew what the draft was going to bring his best opportunity.
That's why Rex left. He didn't run out on his
teammates because of probation. Anyhow, At one point I said

(14:46):
to these guys they were talking about, Oh man, what
a team we would have had, And I said, but
you guys wouldn't be getting the minutes you are now.
You wouldn't be playing nearly as much, if at all.
If these guys were still here and almost in Unison.
They said, yeah, but we'd get a ring. We'd have
a ring. One of them might have said, you know,

(15:06):
rings plural, which told me everything I needed to know
about these guys, about how competitive they were, but how
much they appreciated where they were and how much they
wanted to win and win a ring at Kentucky. So
I thought about that kind of stuff when I heard
John Pelfrey speaking, and he talked, of course about Mark

(15:30):
Pope in glowing terms, and about the Wildcats. This was
after they had pounded Tennessee Tech, but this was before
the Gonzaga game. Still, you know, Pelfrey highly, highly complimentary.

Speaker 10 (15:43):
We're super proud of more. I can't tell you how
it feels to have one of our own here, and
that is certainly I love our past and appreciatives, respected
and revered. T have an Nash or a championship guy
in that seat, somebody that understands the respect that just

(16:07):
place deserves, and this is a place that still respects
the past so much so that hopefully it inspires the future.
I was one of those guys. I watched guys do
it so well that I wanted to do that someday.

(16:27):
So I am so happy that he's here. The team
is deep, the team is skilled. I think they got
a tremendous upside. They will not be the same team
thirty days from now, sixty days from now. They're going
to continue to get better and better and better. I

(16:49):
think they can play different ways. Catch gonna have a
good year.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
And again, that was before the nightmare in Nashville. I'm
not trying to go in a phrase or anything, but
shots just weren't falling, and you know what happened next
in Kentucky followed up with a win over in c Central.
Wish it should have, you know. So again, there's a
lot of basketball left to be played. They just got
to stick to it. And Pelfrey talked about the fact

(17:15):
that he and his teammates stuck it out, and I'd
never heard anybody describe it this way. What they got into,
what it became, and then what they got out of it.
Remember now, when they signed Eddie Sutton didn't really want
I think he wanted Sean Woods. I'm pretty sure he did.
Sean was one of the top point guards in America.
But as for the Kentucky kids, I think he looked

(17:36):
at them as practice players, cannon fodder. Let's keep the
locals happy by signing these kids. And that story had
such a different ending.

Speaker 10 (17:46):
People ask me all the time about our team. How
you feel about why I think Kentucky so special. I'll
tell you tell you why. I'll try to say this
correct way. If I told you, guys, you could come
here and play at University.

Speaker 4 (17:58):
Kentucky, the winning his program, the history of the game.

Speaker 10 (18:01):
You can play for a Hall of Fame coach, You
go to the NCAA tournament year in, year out, and
compete for a national championship.

Speaker 4 (18:08):
Everybody sign up for that.

Speaker 7 (18:10):
So do we.

Speaker 4 (18:14):
What if I changed this question?

Speaker 10 (18:16):
Has said you can come to the University of Kentucky
where nobody thinks you should.

Speaker 4 (18:20):
You can play there. They don't think you belong.

Speaker 10 (18:23):
Your coach is gonna get fired, You're gonna grow on probation,
and you're not gonna be able to compete in the
nca tournament.

Speaker 4 (18:31):
And it's gonna be like.

Speaker 10 (18:33):
The worst time ever, like the Roman Empire has fallen
and the enemy is at the gate.

Speaker 4 (18:40):
And boy with a cocky and confident everybody said it.
They were undershamably saying, well, this is a year we
beat Kentucky twice.

Speaker 10 (18:46):
We're gonna we're gonna beat them, and they don't sweep us.
Those guys that you mentioned, my teammates, they're a different
breed of cat.

Speaker 4 (18:59):
Some might even say unforgettable.

Speaker 10 (19:03):
All I know is they signed up in the best
of times and they stayed in the worst at times.
It really hard to put in the words because most
of it are feelings and experience. But we'll never give

(19:25):
up on the University of Kentucky. We'll never quit. We'll
never turn our back on this program. And that's why
it's the winning his program, the history of the.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Game, that's how deeply it runs, at least within John Pelfrey.
Interesting comments coming up next Derek Ramsey quarterback to Wildcats,
to the SEC championship and winning the Peach Bowl and
much more, and we'll hear what he has to say
about the new head coach. That's next on six point
thirty WLAP. Welcome back to the Big Blue Insider, joining

(19:56):
me now as a former classmate. We went to UK together.
I have known Derek Ramsey since I covered the teams
for the Kentucky Colonel. We later became friends broadcast colleagues.
I love talking football with ram Sir, how are you?

Speaker 11 (20:11):
I am very well, my friend. How are you doing?

Speaker 1 (20:13):
I'm good, sir. I got to see you always a
pleasure when Will Stein was introduced, and you and I
have chatted on the phone four hours since then, so
I needed to drag you back on the radio. But
you like to hire. I think I could. I think
I could tell that from the tony your voice right.

Speaker 11 (20:31):
Well, that's putting it lightly, you know. I think, as
I mentioned to you, Gabe, at that press conference last week,
one of the things I was excited about this guy
reminded me so much of a guy that I love dearly,
and that's Sir Francis Kircy. Yes, when Fran came here

(20:53):
back in seventy three, he was the youngest coach in
college football at the age of thirty big thirty seven
somewhere thereabouts. And as I listened to coach Stein, he
had that same kind of enthusiasm, same kind of excitement
and attention that he is going to bring to the

(21:14):
University of Kentucky football program.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
When you told me that, ram I sat up straight
because obviously I remember when fran was hired, and I
remember somewhat it's been a few years what was going
on around here. What people don't remember is that Fran's
arrival coincided with Commonwealth Stadium being unveiled. And you know this,
but Fran Kersey was kind of the godfather of tailgating,

(21:40):
wasn't he. He had to explain to people, you know,
you need to tailgate, come to the game, and people
at tailgate, what is that? And now it's one of
the greatest traditions in all of college. Well he didn't
invent it, but he explained it the UK fans. So
that was a huge step forward back then, wasn't.

Speaker 11 (21:57):
It Absolutely was. And so I am hoping that coach
Stearin will bring that same kind of excitement, that same
kind of innovation, uh to our program. You know, and
from what he said and what I know of him
so far, uh, he's an offensive guy. So folk love offense,

(22:20):
and so this this will give us an opportunity to
sling the ball around and uh, you know, keep the
wide receivers that we lost over the past couple of years,
and and uh, you know, hopefully to grow cut a
bowldie to the quarterback that we all think he can be.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
And I do want to talk quarterbacks with you in
offense because the game has changed so much rams since
you played in college. And we'll get to your NFL
career as well. But back in the day, people ran
the ball the way Kentucky ran the ball, you know,
with with option attacks and a quarterback like you could
run it and throw it. They didn't call it a
run pass option back then. And I know it was

(23:02):
a different kind of setup, but the rules have changed
so much now it almost demands that you throw the ball.
Do you like that?

Speaker 11 (23:13):
You know? Despite that gave you know, I think the fans.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
Love it more than anything.

Speaker 11 (23:18):
But here in the SEC, what you're going to find
when I was here, since I've left, and in years
to come, what you will find in the SEC is
that at some point in the game you will have
to control the ball five to seven minutes, and you
cannot do that throwing the ball around. You can do

(23:40):
it with the RPOs and the different runs and short
runs the short passes rather, but you still have to
be able to control the ball team. Every team in
the conference has won the conference over the last few years,
they've all had pretty down good running back two or three. Yeah,

(24:02):
And if you go back some years ago when we
were having success, we had this guy named Benny Snell
and we were pounding it. After Benny Snell, we had
a guy named Rodriguez. We were pounding it. So this
is not a new thing. This is something that's been
around in particularly in the SEC, for the last fifty

(24:23):
sixty years.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
And you know what I remember, back in the mid nineties,
they weren't winning a lot, but a guy named Moe
Williams led the league into rushing and then his last
year here, his third year, he ran for exactly sixteen
hundred yards. And that offense in particular highlighted Moe Williams.
It was designed to have him cut back against the
grain and he's running free, and people loved it. You know,

(24:48):
you can talk about throwing the ball, but when a
guy's running free, people are roaring, they're cheering. So that's
like you said, that's nothing new, right, right.

Speaker 11 (24:58):
Absolutely. And then there was this guy that I played
with UH and Sunny College.

Speaker 7 (25:05):
Oh yeah, pretty good.

Speaker 11 (25:07):
He was pretty good.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Also, Hey, Ram, is he still the best running back
that ever played here?

Speaker 11 (25:13):
I would argue I think he is, and I am
biased and I will admit that. But no, anytime Sunny
touched the football he could take it.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
Oh man, he was something. But he could run between
the tackles.

Speaker 11 (25:28):
Yeah. Now when we're talking about blocking, that's a different things.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
That's a fact because you had Warren Bryant over there.

Speaker 11 (25:34):
Yeah that's right, that's right, Yeah, Highway sixty.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
Nine, high Wait sixty. Yeah, he may be the best
old tackle I've ever played here. I would argue, I
know we're talking to Derek Ramsey, former Kentucky quarterback. Will
Stein is the new head coach, and ram like what
he saw from will Stein at the news conference and
compared him with UH to franky and just the enthusiasm

(26:02):
and the excitement. But we're gonna find out soon, Ram
when we see Oregon. If you haven't watched Oregon play,
and I've watched them a little bit, uh, you know
what kind of offense they do run? Can you get
an accurate read just sitting in your in your living
room or wherever you watch that game on TV. What
are you going to be looking for when you look

(26:23):
at that orgon offense?

Speaker 11 (26:25):
Uh? His commitment from the lineman, how they're blocking. Uh,
his commitment to the run game. Is it a run game,
is it a power run game? Or is it this
old trickery stuff you know? Uh? No, I just want
to see good solid football because over here throughout the

(26:45):
South and it's been this way for years, and Oregon
and those guys on the West Coast, they'll get to
the championship against the SEC schools, but they never beat them.
And so with with that in mind, he just has
to understand what will work over here because so often

(27:06):
coaches wherever they were before sometimes they can't make the
adjustment to where they're now off. And so I'm hoping
that he'll be able to make that adjustment with just
his enthusiasm. That's going to that's going to get his
guys a lot more excited or excited earlier, you know

(27:27):
about what they're doing. Now we just got to execute.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, And what a tremendous recruiting advantage if there is
one to be had, Well, I think you're recruiting three
sixty five. But now Kentucky recruiters, including will Stein, can
pick up the phone and say, watch this playoff game.
You're going to see how you might be able to
fit in. That's huge, isn't it?

Speaker 11 (27:51):
Absolutely? You know, And as a player, that's the thing
in particular now when you can actually see all the
games and you'll see now the playoff games and get
to see this extended play four players and the opportunity
for players to do so and figure out, as you mentioned,
how I'm going to fit into his system. And so

(28:13):
I'm really curious to see a system. You know, I
watched parts of Argument games periodically or West Coast games,
but I'm more of an STC guy, and so I'm
excited to see what he does also and to see
how that's going to fit in here. As you well know, Gabe,
what works over there may not work over here, and

(28:34):
so the great coaches have to be able to adapt,
to be able to adjust get different type players that
fit in here versus where he walks.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
You know, it's interesting you bring that up because a
long time ago, when when Kentucky hired hell Mummy, and
we can discuss and debate his hiring and what went
right and wrong of course he had Tim Couch, he
had some great offensive players. But front of mine, who
was a retired coach, said Kentucky needed to hire a
guy like Mummy and do something different because they were

(29:08):
not going to be successful playing what he called. And
this is, you know, twenty years ago smash mouth football
in the SEC. Smash mouth football. I think no longer
applies that term just because of what you were saying.
They got you got to throw the ball a little bit,
but you still have to run it.

Speaker 4 (29:24):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Mark Stoops his best teams were just what you just described,
teams that could throw the ball, but could line up
and when it had to run the ball, plus play
tough defense and play that field position game. That's that's traditional.
And Mark Stoops was successful here. So I guess my

(29:46):
question is, can will Stein do that here? I guess
we're gonna find out, aren't we?

Speaker 11 (29:51):
I would say we certainly are. But I am still
committed to the run. I mean, you have to be
able to control the clock. You have to be Yeah,
roll the ball. Those big linemen got to come off
the ball. And yes, with that rpo it creates another
opportunity to run past with the ball. But just to

(30:15):
drop back and throw the ball thirty times. That now
it's just won't win. No.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
I direct anybody to the record book and look at
all the games where where Tim and Jared Lorenzen, you know,
chucked the ball between forty and sixty five times, and
they didn't win. They had great numbers, but they didn't
win the game. So yeah, that's right. Yep. Derek Ramsey
is Mike. Guess we'll come back and talk more Kentucky
football on the other side of the break here on
six thirty WAP Welcome back. We're talking with Derek Ramsey,

(30:45):
my longtime friend, former broadcast colleague, and of course the
man who led the Wildcats to an SEC football championship
as Kentucky's quarterback. And I remember when Terry Wilson was here,
ram Uh, he had great success at Kentucky as a quarterback.
Beat Tennessee, beat Florida, beat Louisville. You had a good
relationship with him, He.

Speaker 11 (31:06):
Had a great relationship with He was.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
A really good run pass guy. And I was talking
to my colleague Jepikoro, who believes that anymore in the SEC,
in college football, you gotta have a guy who can
move the chains with his legs as well as his arm.
And you did that as well as anybody in the
history of the SEC. Can Cutter Bully be that guy?

(31:30):
Do you think, And I don't mean be Diego Pavia,
but I mean be good enough to move the chains
that way?

Speaker 11 (31:38):
Well, you know, from what I've seen, I have been
more than impressed, and I've gotten more impressed as I've
seen him play good. Earlier on, I was a little
concerned about it. You know, when you come into the SEC,
it's overwhelmed. Yea. I remember in nineteen seventy before we're

(31:59):
going down the play University Tennessee and the winner of
that game was going to go to the Liberty Bowl.
And in the first quarter, Mike Knusi goes down. It
was our starting quarterback. Then in the second quarter, Ernie
Lewis goes down, and so coach Nicolau told me Rams

(32:22):
get ready. Cliff Height was the next guy, and then
it was me and I went and told Cliff, don't
you go down, but you go down, man, because what
I had done gave was that whole year I was
preparing for spring, getting ready to compete for the starting job.

(32:47):
You know, you're at Tennessee, and you got one hundred
thousand streaming Orange people up there, and it's overwhelming. And
so I think early on, as I saw Cutter, he
was a little gunshot. But what I've seen this year,

(33:07):
I've seen his maturity, and so I'm looking for him
next year to take the next step. And as a
matter of fact, I was at this game, and I
can't remember which one it was, but he took off
and ran for about thirty yards and ran over these
guys getting the end zone. Yes, reminded me of a

(33:28):
player I made against West Virginia. I fussed through these
two guys. Yeah, So when I start to see stuff
like that, the maturity, the guy's rallying around him, because
not only does it excite of fans, but with your teammates,
now they know they have a warrior. Now just a quarterback,

(33:49):
the guy that's gonna hand the ball off and throw
the ball out the field. He's gonna do whatever it
takes to win.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
And you know, I was talking to Josh Kattis and
Andrew sadly had an injury couldn't play in the season finale,
but he was talking about Cutter, and there were roommates
and one of the questions I asked him, it was
about cutter in the huddle and here's a red shirt freshman.
But Josh said he was in command, you know, and

(34:17):
as you all know, there's only one guy that's supposed
to be talking in the huddle. But he's got he's
got to command that respect. And sometimes don't you have
to tell guys they shut up and listen. And he
wasn't afraid.

Speaker 11 (34:28):
To do that. Oh man, I can't tell you how
many times I told guys. And then after a while
it gets to a point you just look at him.
You don't have to say anything.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
I love that. But for a freshman to do that,
I mean, can you imagine. And yet it's got to
be done right.

Speaker 11 (34:49):
Yeah, it has to be because if not, these guys
they're going to try to take over. No no, no, no, no,
no no no. Let's just turn around. You know when
I I want to hear from you, point to you.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
I heard Steve Young, the Hall of Fame quarterback, talk
about two things. He said, You'll always here on the
football field is d lineman will always say they're holding me.
And wide receivers will always come back. That I don't
say man. I was all, yeah, but I guess that's good.
You want them to be you want them to be aggressive.
We're talking to Derrick Ramsey, who was the Kentucky's quarterback

(35:27):
back in the seventies when the Wildcats played and won
and the Peach Bowl won, the SEC championship, won ten
games and right now as a fan of not just
saying it's temporary, but has become a fan of Cutter
Bowley will Stein. And the problem here, ram is the
SEC has never been tougher, has it. It was tough
when you played, but now there are more teams and man,

(35:49):
more facilities, more money.

Speaker 11 (35:51):
I mean it's tough, yeah, but you know, Oka, I
think the only difference is they've just had a team. So,
I mean the SEC, it's just been a dominant football
league forever.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
Yeah, But isn't it more isn't it more balanced? I mean,
you know, you've got more teams that are capable of
winning more games now when it used to be the
halves that have nots. You helped pull Kentucky up from
the dregs, But it just seems like there's a little
more parody now. Do you not see it that way?

Speaker 11 (36:23):
You know, it's interesting you say that because at one
point during the season this past year, you know, yes,
we've gone from twelve teams up to sixteen teams now,
but there were about seven to eight teams that will
be low five hundred, and so I stay that to

(36:46):
stay this has always been a tough, tough league, you know,
rather rather twelve teams, rather's sixteen teams. It's just that
now the world has changed because of this whole thing. Yep,
the world has changed because some schools will have abundantly

(37:07):
more money than other schools. And so now we just
got to figure out where we fit in on this thing.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, and NIL has changed for good college athletics when
it when it first came into play.

Speaker 11 (37:25):
I said, I say for permanent, you know, for how
much good?

Speaker 1 (37:28):
No, that's that's well put. Yeah, but I said, this
is the end of college athletics as we know it.
But I think the pendulum is swinging so wildly now
it's hard to hard to imagine where we're going to
be in five years.

Speaker 9 (37:42):
Is that?

Speaker 11 (37:43):
Yeah? I would agree with you. And it's gonna be
really interesting to see rather money wins or talent wins
or out coaching wins, because clear that there are teams
that have a lot more we have. But I just
believe that you can out coach these guys, you know,

(38:07):
in a lot of cases. And that's what I'm looking
for from coach Tyn, to out coach these guys.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
Okay, Ram, I've gone through so many questions. I have
so many more. Can hold you over for one more segment.

Speaker 7 (38:22):
You guys, absolutely absolutely great.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
All right, We're talking with Derek Ramsey, former UK quarterback,
NFL veteran at one point worked in state government. And
by the way, here's a shameless plug for Ram's book.
Along with doctor John Long. They call me mister Secretary.
Just in time for Christmas. Could be a good stocking stuffer.
Coming up, more talk with ram and in our number
two as well, Jerry Hale, one of the super kittens

(38:46):
from back in the seventies from Indiana. We'll preview UK
Indiana basketball. That's coming up as well in our number two,
and we'll talk more college football on the other side
of the news break. Stay with us again. More Derek
Ramsey coming up on six point thirty l.

Speaker 9 (39:00):
A such.

Speaker 12 (39:18):
Tag.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Welcome back. We're talking with Derek Ramsey. I love talking
football with Rams, so we're going overtime with him. That's
just how much we like talking to each other. I
hope it's I hope it's a two way street. But
you were talking before the break about the fact that
you can still out coach people, and I often wonder
what do you mean by that, because people I'd love

(41:10):
to say that, you know, we got out coached or
we out coached them, But how do you do that?
It's not just on game day. That starts on really Sunday,
isn't it.

Speaker 11 (41:20):
Absolutely, It starts with the preparation. You get your guys
into a mindset. You know, one of the luxuries I
had gab while I was there. You know this my
whole let's see how should I best put this? The
player I was in seventy four and seventy five, you

(41:42):
would almost think that where did they get him from
seven to six and seven to seven? Yeah, because what
coach Moss did. He allowed me to do the things
that I could do period. And he also allowed me
to call plays, which was heard of back then. And
so when a coach gives you that kind of trust

(42:06):
and the player see that kind of trust, and when
players were coming from the sideline and I had the
ability even to override those plays. And I remember if
you asked my old friend Hope, well, a couple of
players would come in and who had calling No, no, no,
we're not going to do this. We're going another way.

(42:28):
And so when you have that kind of confidence in
your quarterback, but that all starts on Sunday night, and
you know, when you get your guys believe in and stuff.
And I remember the Florida game in particular, nineteen seventy six,
and we're going down the field and I had sped

(42:51):
the game up intentionally, and so Coach Cursey costs time
out and so I come to the sideline and I
tell well, rather, Coach Moss tells me, Rams you got
you gotta slow it down. You're gonna kill these big guys.
Just hot the hell out here. And I go, okay, okay, okay.

(43:13):
So I go back out on the field and I
tell the guys, I say, hey, guys, I know we
got them on the run. I know we got them
on the run. Did you guys just have to believe
in me. I sped the game up intentionally, and I'm
gonna continue to run it that way. I'm not going
to leave a soul out here on the field. So
let's just go finish this thing off, and I guarantee

(43:35):
you the damn games over. Well, we take it down,
drive it down and down down the field, shove it
down there, throw it on a seventy eighty yard drive
the games over. But again, you know, your players have
to believe and you in particularly those big Hawks, I mean,

(43:57):
without those five guys, I mean I was just the
average player, you know, And if you go back to
seventy five, you can see the difference between seventy five
seventy Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
Absolutely, but you are handed the reins. You know, you
were given the keys to the Cadillac, as they say,
and you know what to do with it.

Speaker 11 (44:17):
That spring, I was good. I was like, man, I
didn't realize I had this kind of comfort.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
You played in the NFL until what ten eleven years
with the Raiders and the Patriots years? Nine years totally okay, Yeah,
I see, seventy eight to eighty seven, got a master's
degree from me Ku. You were an ad at cop
and State from twenty eight to twenty fifteen, and it
just seems like ten years ago is when you left

(44:50):
that job. But we touched on it earlier with a
portal and nil. Could you imagine being an AD today,
or even being a head coach when you've got to
re recruit everybody on your roster. I can't imagine you
would have been comfortable with that.

Speaker 11 (45:06):
Uh no, no, and I have probably at that point,
I probably would have left it. As I talked to
my friends that are still ads in the business now, man,
that's scratching their heads out. And at every level it's different.

Speaker 7 (45:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (45:24):
You know, at the mid major you're trying to find
a guy thirty thousand dollars a year. At a UK
or Alabama or wherever, you're trying to find a guy
in some cases three million dollars a year. Yeah, And
so these budgets are going to be tested, they're going
to be tried, and so it's going to take a

(45:44):
new style AD to be successful in these new programs now,
because these young players they understand, as you mentioned, you're
constantly I used to talk to Koch Stupid about that.
He said, the hardest part of his job in his
own players, right, And once you've gotten a player back

(46:04):
in my ten years ago, once that guy came to
your institution, you had it for the next three to
four years, right, well not now? Yeah, I mean they
may be smiling and happy today and then the mall
they tell you to coach. I'm sorry, well really so, no,
I wouldn't want to be in it at this time.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
And you know, I worry for the sport. And yet
earlier this week I reported that ratings have never been
higher for some of these big football championship Conference championship
games of the studio show College Game Day. People are
tuning in and record numbers. But you wonder at what
point might it start to go the other way?

Speaker 11 (46:47):
You know, Uh, that's it. That's a very interesting question.
But you know, people like excitement and it's whole show now, yeah,
and the home the game day shows, the actual games.
You know, when you when you come there before gave

(47:10):
you let's go back when we were in school, during
time out, it was time out, during halftime, it was halftime. Well,
now even in the time out, they got some kind
of show going on. There's always something And if you
don't create that kind of excitement, then people don't want
to come to the game, I guess.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
And you know what else, And I was a little
slow the uptake. I know, that's a shock to you.
Maybe he's slow on something. But uh, several years ago,
when I kept hearing kids don't want to come to
the game because they can't use their phones because the
cell service and a huge crowd like that is so bad,
that then I thought, what, that's ridiculous. I couldn't imagine

(47:52):
anything like that keeping me away as a fan. But
then I began to look around at my own kids
and and kids in the stadium, like, you know, if
they can't in a downtime or even up time, you know,
have the phone in the hand or text back and
where are you? I need to meet you? That kind
of thing. That's where we are today.

Speaker 11 (48:10):
Isn't it. Yes, yes it is, Yes it is. It's
a new type fan. But what has happened is the
whole marketing world has created this kind of excitement to
where that has to be a part of the game.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
Yeah, back and forth.

Speaker 11 (48:29):
As you just mentioned, well where are you now? Well
I'm over here getting the popcorn. Well okay, I'll meet
you over here. You know. It's that kind of excitement,
that kind of enthusiasm. But that's the old head. I mean,
we just like football. I just want to sit and
watch the game and don't really want to talk to
anybody during the game. I just want to watch the game,

(48:52):
you know, and see the strategy of how what we
are trying to accomplish the long term.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
Yeah, and I'm sure you watch football the way I
watch TV news, having been in it for thirty five years.
Why did they do that? Oh, I can't believe they
did this. You know. I drive my wife crazy watching
the news. I'll suddenly say, oh man, She's like what,
and I'll point out some silly mistakes she didn't even notice.
You know. I guarantee you watch football the same way.

Speaker 11 (49:18):
Don't you.

Speaker 7 (49:21):
What are you doing?

Speaker 11 (49:22):
Come on?

Speaker 1 (49:24):
I love that. Oh man. I love talking football with
you as always, and I promise I won't wait so long.
There won't be a new coach before I'll call you again.
We always, we always have a great time talking football
as well. We'll do it soon, my friend.

Speaker 11 (49:39):
Okay, I look forward to a gate.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
Thanks brother, have a good day, Have a good holiday
you and your wife.

Speaker 11 (49:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
Yeah, love talking football with Ram. We always chat before
and after the interviews for the show. So one of
the great joys of my life. Coming up next, Speaking
of joy, Jerry Hale an Indiana native who signed to
play with the Wildcats, looks back finally on his career
and that game in nineteen seventy five where the Wildcats
pulled off a huge upset of the Indiana Hoosiers. We'll

(50:08):
look back, and we'll look ahead at Saturday's game with
Kentucky and Indiana coming up here on six thirty wlap
Welcome back to the Big Blullingsider joining me now is
actually a guy who was a former classman. Although Jerry
Hale and I never had classes together, but he and
I talked a lot in school and since then. Of course,
Jerry part of that team that went to the nineteen
seventy five Final four, beat Indiana on the way, and

(50:31):
Indiana native himself, well, we claim him now. Jerry, how
are you, sir?

Speaker 7 (50:35):
Doing great? Doing great?

Speaker 1 (50:37):
Dig Hey, Before we talked basketball, you worked at Keenland
for quite a while in your career, and I got
to thinking about the fact that you are yet another
Indiana guy of Jim Master, Kyle Macy, there were so
many more who came south and played here and became
a Kentuckian. Nothing says you're a Kentuckian more than working

(50:58):
at Keenland. I gotta think, am I right about that?

Speaker 7 (51:01):
Well? That that's true? I mean, you know, it's the
iconic place. And I always joked with the folks that
my career in business or after I got out of school,
I worked for a co company for twenty seven twelve
twenty nine years, National Minds Corporation, George Evans, and then
I worked at Keenland. So other than the bourbon industry
or tobacco, I've pretty much hit in Kentucky. Basketball hit

(51:24):
three out of five main things here in the Commonwealth.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
Did you not work Joeb's farm? Didn't He didn't you
guys go out there and help him haul tobacco and
stuff like that?

Speaker 7 (51:35):
Thank goodness, I didn't.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
Oh you did not, Okay, because I heard Roby talk
about it. Yeah, that's supposedly the toughest work there is
on a farm.

Speaker 7 (51:42):
So I think Jimmy Dan did a little bit, and
I think Greevy might have, but I think Greevy probably quit.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
Well, Greevy was on with Mark Popet, and I'm going
to double back to that, but let's go back though
to the beginning. I mean, you were one of the
greatest high school players in Indiana. History. Uh you said
no to Iu, I gotta think tell me about that.

Speaker 7 (52:06):
Well, Uh, you know, I think you know a lot
of people know that I always wanted to come to Kentucky.
I mean that was I was always. My dad was
from Litchfield originally and grew up in Louisville, and and
then we married my mom. We grew up New Agby,
but we listened to WHS and k Wood and Claude Sullivan,
you know, basketball to my dad kind of green the
Kentucky basketball into my mind.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
Okay.

Speaker 7 (52:27):
Well, but so when I was being recruited, getting a
lot of uh from uh North Carolina State, Louisville have
been on me since like the eighth grade, and a
lot of other schools around the country, but Indiana was
not on me as much. And then when Bob Knight
took the job. I was in class one day and

(52:48):
they came in said somebody's here to see you, and
I said okay, and uh. I went up to the
office and there was coach Night. So he was talking
to me about, well, you know, you need to come
to your state school and and I was kind of saying, oh,
it's too big and all this stuff. But in the
but I did agree to go up and visit, and
my wife Pat who was a girlfriend at the time,

(53:11):
she was at Hanover College. They brought her over. Wow,
she came over. She came over for the visit, I guess,
let me put it that way, and kind of went
around with me and Davy Shepherd took us around and
so forth. But Coach Night was very nice to me,
and he was, you know, it was intriguing to go.

(53:32):
I mean, he was putting his first team together because
he had just taken the job. So as a matter
of fact, I found a bunch of letters in the
attic when we were cleaning out, and it was letters
from him, handwritten letters from him when he was at
the Aloha Bow in Hawaii because he was coaching and
he was telling me all about that. I got letters
from Mike Seshwski, who was still in the Army and

(53:55):
stationed in Colorado, and he had sent me a letter
back going to you know, going to IU and playing
for Coach Night. One of was like and stuff. So
it was kind of interesting. But it did come down
to just always wanted to go to Kentucky. My second
choice ended up almost being North Corolina State and so

(54:17):
but out there, I could have gone other I could
have gone other places and played more. But it's just
the fact that I, you know, I want to be
a part of Kentucky basketball.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
Wow. And you knew coming in that you were going
to have to really compete hard for playing.

Speaker 7 (54:30):
Time, didn't you, right, Because you know Mike Flann who
grew up playing against each other and in my room together. Yeah,
and then Jimmy Dan had both had already signed before
I signed, so I already knew, you know, he had
two guys six more in front of me and very
talented mister basketball is in both respective states. So but

(54:51):
but still it's just, you know, my life and everything
else turned out being a part of a great group
of guys coaches, it was. It alterned out great and it.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Has and you've told me that the NC State story
before that, Norm Sloan said, I got a seven foot
four guy named Burlson. I need a point guard to
throw him the ball, and that could have been you
and turned out to be Monty Tao. They did win
a national title after they were on probation. But yeah,
I'm glad to hear you say that it turned out
well for you because I've certainly enjoyed getting to know you.

(55:22):
But listening to Kevin the other night, he kind of
added a couple of layers to that Indiana Kentucky story,
and he talked Jerry about how the night you guys
as freshman, and of course you could not play as freshman.
Some people think we got to go back to that
never will, but you guys were at Freedom Hall watching
Indiana beat Kentucky, and people and I had forgotten this,

(55:48):
that Indiana beat prior to the seventy five final four.
Indiana beat Kentucky five straight, including the night as a friend,
you all sat there and watched Bob Knight's team beat Kentucky.
Guys are thinking, well, that's never going to happen to us,
And uh, you guys had a tough time about.

Speaker 7 (56:05):
You, didn't you We did, We did, and you know,
we did play our freshman year. They had freshman teams
back then, so we did play the you know, I
think the day before that morning, I can't remember, but
we you know, we ended up beating them because we
were undefeated that freshman year. But but yeah, we we
had a tough time. They they got us in seventy four,
but they beat us. I'm trying to think. I can't

(56:27):
remember what we did first when we did beat them,
other than the seventy five. But they beat us in
seventy three in the Mid East Regionals down in Nashville
and the Steve Downing and and did a number on
us and they beat us by I think seven and uh,

(56:48):
you know that that that put them into the n
C Double A. We played Austin p in the first
game with Fly Williams and uh in Indiana in the
in the championship game, but unfortunate he lost that one.
But it gave us momentum, you know, a chance to
get ourselves back together. And you know, then our junior

(57:08):
year was not a great year. Have to come of
a disasters year and it just we didn't have the
big guy. We just uh and we lost a lot
of close games that you know, good teams win close games,
and we lost a lot of close games that year
that you know, could have put us into a better
position than we did. But it is what it is.
And then we went to Australia over the summer of

(57:30):
our between our junior and senior year and kind of
bonded and we got we got Roby and Phillips and
Jack and James in there, and that really gave us
a good nucleus of to go into our senior year.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
And yet that also included the famous infamous beatdown in Bloomington.
As a kid, everybody's heard that story, but from your
perspective as an Indiana kid, what was that like going
into the game. I gotta think you heard from people,
And I got to think you heard from people when
you were in the middle of it up there in Bloomington.

Speaker 7 (58:03):
Yes, well, you know, the one thing is I mean,
you know, being from Indiana, I mean I had people
that rooted for me but rooted against Kentucky, so that
that was kind of the way it is naturally. But
you know in that game, I mean you know, they
beat us ninety four to yeah, twenty four points. Yeah.
And I was actually involved in the play that ended

(58:25):
up in the head slap with Coach Hall really and
I was driving going down the floor and my son
found a video of it one time, and I've never
been able to side it since. But I was going
down the floor and Steve Allfield was guarded and they
ended up calling a block instead of a charge on me.
They call a block on all field, and that's when

(58:47):
Coach Knight went crazy, and you know, I know it's crazy,
but he went over and you know, and and Coach
Hall got together and they were talking, and then you know,
Coach said something about, well, you're beating us by twenty
four when he turned around his had That's that's when
things changed a little bit. But yeah, I was involved
in the play that actually calls.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
That you played quite a bit in that game. You
played fourteen. You played more than Jack Gibbons did in
that game. And I hate to bring this up. You
you had a couple of field goals two for three,
but you were aer for three at the line, brother,
how'd that happen?

Speaker 7 (59:19):
I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
You did have three rebounds and three assists, so you
sure sure?

Speaker 7 (59:28):
I'm sure I got those rebounds over Benson.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Well, not many got away from me at a double
double at twenty six.

Speaker 7 (59:36):
Yeah, that was a moment. I was looking up. I
was looking up what he had in our championship game
in the date and even what twenty three rebounds in
thirty seven point?

Speaker 1 (59:45):
Yeah? Thirty three? Uh and and so when that that
slap that the head happened. Kevin gave us his account.
Mark Pope of course played for Lynn Nance at Washington
and heard the story from that aspect. But were you
sitting there or standing They're wide eyed. I got to
think you couldn't believe what was going on.

Speaker 7 (01:00:03):
Well, and actually I was at the other end of
the court because it happened on the far end of
the court. Yeah, so when I was we were both
on the off field and I were both on the ground,
and I guess when all this stuff kind of started happened,
we were just getting up. I didn't really see it,
you know, happened or hear anything because I wasn't close
to the you know, at that point.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
I got you, So you were you were an innocent bystander.

Speaker 7 (01:00:26):
Yeah, well I don't know about him, and you can't
and you can't say instigator either.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Now that's true. Is Jerry Hale?

Speaker 7 (01:00:34):
It wasn't.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Jerry, one of the super Kittens who played as a
senior against Indiana pulled off the upset. We're going to
talk about that on the other side of the break
here on six thirty w l A P. Welcome back
to the Big Boe Sider. My guest is Jerry Hale,
Kentucky Wildcat. I never say former anymore because once a wildcat,
always a wildcat. But Jerry was one of the super kittens.
A tremendous recruiting class. Maybe Jerry the best recruiting class

(01:00:59):
in terms of top to bottom all the mister basketballs
in the history of UK basketball. Uh And of course
pulled off the upset of Indiana and the Mid East Regional.
Kevin told the story about and I think I talked
to you in the locker room after the game, the
upset of value in the Mid East Regional championship. The
Joe b at halftime explain to you guys the plan

(01:01:22):
for what happened after you won the game, the trip
home down the interstate and the party at the coliseum,
and just the confidence he had. Well, here's how you're
going to cut down the nets using scissors. Don't hurt yourself.
What do you remember about that?

Speaker 7 (01:01:37):
Well, the one thing that goes back to the Friday
before the game, really and we were in practice and
there was a closed practice and and oh, I can't
think of the guy's name is an announcer with Kirk Galdi.
Jerry Lucas was coming into the game, you know, the
practice to watch and Coach Hall kicked him out because

(01:01:58):
instead of the closed practice actually since Lucas played with
Knight at Ohio State, he was so they didn't want
him in there. And we had we had the most knockdown,
drag out practice. We had fights going on. And the
one thing Coach has Hall said was that when Steve
Green comes around the baseline sets will pick. I said,
I want you to lay him out. So the first

(01:02:20):
and and so when we left that practice, we were
so high and about and fired up about going in
a game. And then the next day, and I've said
this before, I had a premonition. I mean it just
it's one of those things. There was no way we
were going to lose. I mean, it's just really I
don't know what. I don't know what it was. But

(01:02:42):
and then the next day when we got ready to
go with getting ready for the game and stuff, and
then we're having our talking to think, coach all, this
is before halftime. It wasn't it halftime, it's before the game.
He wrote, you know, nets Bus Coliseum on the on
the board, and he goes, that's what we're going to
be doing, boys, And the first play of the game,

(01:03:02):
I think guy at the Green came down and belonged
the same guy had just laid him out and got
a foul. But the thing about it, you know Indians
motion offense. They would always run through you and drop
a shoulder in you and and then after two or
three rotations they would have an open shot. Well that
that kind of enabled Green and all the other guys

(01:03:25):
sitting in the picks and kept you know, the new
they roll get hit. So they started kind of shining
away from their picks a little bit. So I think
I think that helped, you know, just our mentality. And
then you know the fact that he gave Mike and
Jimmy Dann the green light to shoot and to really
you know, to have our outside game help us more

(01:03:46):
than our inside game because of Benson. So it you know,
kind of flip flopped what we what our philosophy was.
But we we did try to get the ball into
you know, get to Kevin, to get at the inside
the Bob or or Rick and Mike. So it really
kind of changed that out there. And it was a knockdown,
drag out game. I mean, it was tired at halftime

(01:04:07):
and and we ended up winning by two. We were
upped a little bit more than that towards the end
of the game, but then they put a press on
us and and I remember, I don't know who was
Jimmy Dnn and I don't know Buckner. I don't know
if they got into it or what, but it was closed. Yeah,
and you know, they're just it was just it was

(01:04:27):
so the rivalry is so intense and I'm so so
happy that it's back and we're playing again. I mean it,
it's just it's been too long, and it's it's always
been a special thing in college basketball, even though, uh,
we're coming in and you know, with the four losses
and there's something with two and it's funny because Kevin

(01:04:47):
will be an interesting game.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
Well, Kevin remembered the Jovie thing as being at halftime.
I had always heard it was pre game, but you know,
the year's file up, things get foggy, so uh, but yeah,
let's talk about this one up because this this game
needs to happen each year. I don't know exactly what
went on as a result of Indiana upsetting Kentucky the

(01:05:10):
year that Calipari's team won the championship. You know, and
now and things began to ensue, and ironically enough, Jerry,
those players told us and ESPN replayed that clip over
and over because they had promos to run. It was
their college basketball video package, and that was their most
valuable video. And the players said, that's what sparked them,

(01:05:32):
that's what inspired them to help, you know, helped inspire
to win the national championship. So that turned out to
work in their favor. Yeah, they said it just made
them even matter every time they saw it. Uh, but yeah,
it's it's it's good that this game is back, but
it's a Kentucky team that's got a lot of question
marks about it. And I'm sure you've heard a lot

(01:05:55):
of the chatter about others dissension. The players think that's ridiculous,
but it's just clicking right now. As a former player
and a guy who's got this program so much in
your heart, how do you feel about what you're seeing
and about what Mark Pope is trying to do here.

Speaker 7 (01:06:11):
Well, I'm one hundred percent behind Mark Pope. I think
he's a great coach. I think he's gonna do a
great job here, So I'm not I'm disappointed in the
effort that the team's giving right now. And you see that.
I haven't been to a game yet because I've been
in South Carolina for three months, but so in Indiana.
It's gonna be my first game this weekend. Good, but

(01:06:32):
so I'm looking forward to that. But it just sees,
you know, there's just so much perimeter. Uh, there's no
movement in you know, the lack of effort on the
defensive end that we were spacing is so far away
from And even at the other night against North Carolina Central,
I mean, they're hitting threes on us because we can't
close out on him quick enough because we're so far

(01:06:54):
away from so we've got a lot of defensive guys
are seeming like they're wandering around and not staying you know,
true to to their defensive principles right. And then on
offense the other night when they're in the two three zone,
I mean, there was no movement whichever. There was a
guy on every perimeter thing and we were outside and
driving me nuts. We had nobody flashing in the middle.

(01:07:16):
You know. Coach and Coach Rup used to this six
zone play that was a great play, tre zoned right
and they would get a shot in the corner. But
but again there's I mean, you know, go back to
Duke game in seventy eight, when Jack would flash that
middle take, he'd have that little jump shot that was
open all night the other night and are kick down
low or kickouts of the wings, But that didn't happen.

(01:07:37):
It just stayed around passing the perimeter. And against Louisville,
when I was watching that game, we were starting our
offense out by the five second line. You know, that
little short line out there, that's where the guy's going
out setting the high pick for the pick and row.
And I'm just going see, you know, I just so

(01:07:58):
it just you know, not Chris cuts, not passing, not
looking for each other. So you know, there there are
some issues. But I mean I think he'll get it
square away. But you know, we got Indiana coming here.
We've lost four to major you know, to the top
twenty and and bad losses. So and sometimes when this
happened at snowballs on you too. And that's what happened

(01:08:20):
to us in seventy three, seventy four. I mean, we
lost those close games which could have gone either way.
But these aren't close games. I mean, you know, the
Gonzaga game was that was hard to watch.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
Yeah, I hear that when the shots aren't there, crying
when the shots aren't falling, though there's such a snowball.
If I didn't go and I was working volleyball that night,
Jerry and I didn't watch that game purposely until Monday morning.
But and knowing what was going to happen, I kind
of had a different look, as you kids like to say,

(01:08:54):
from ten thousand feet. But obviously when the shots aren't falling,
everything else suffers body language defense. Uh. And and that
prompted all these question marks about their heart.

Speaker 13 (01:09:07):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
But when the ball ain't going in the hole, it's
a different game, isn't it.

Speaker 7 (01:09:11):
That's right? And and these guys are trying, you know,
they're they're not out there not trying. I mean, nobody's
ever not tried. I mean that's something you know, when
I say lack of effort, it's you know, they're they're trying,
but they're not doing the right things to make it work.
And and I think when you when you're not making
those shots, you don't keep shooting those shots. You got

(01:09:32):
to go in and get you know, take some other
types of shots. I mean, get the ball inside and
then create it and work it from inside to outside
again to help, you know, get get that confidence back.
But we were doing none of that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
And find one you can make, Find a shot you
can make. Jack Gibbonson's toold me that I'll let you
go with this. It's obviously a different age, a different
era in college basketball. And you all were so gracious
in kind to invite me and Tom Hammond and a
couple others too your gathering last year after your reunion

(01:10:06):
in rupp Arena. Fifty years Yeah, and yet you guys
stay in touch, you're still tight and sadly in all
the college boards, you're not going to see that anymore,
just because that's the way things are now. I got
to think that tugs at your heart a little bit.

Speaker 11 (01:10:21):
Doesn't it.

Speaker 7 (01:10:22):
It does. I mean when the kids aren't here, I mean,
it's just right. I was talking about a kid the
other day that was at Clemson that went to my
high school and he was at air Force and they's
at Clemson at San Jose State, and why you would leave.
But going back to your question, we were so close
and we still are. We're getting together again. We get
together every year, right, and getting together I think in

(01:10:43):
February for the Tennessee game, we go out to dinner
or wives and so forth, and we just we tell
a lot of old stories and I'm sure they're elaborated
on and so forth, but it's still fun. We're on
a text change and that kind of goes on about
what our feelings are about held the games and stuff

(01:11:03):
like that. But they're all behind coach Pope and that
that's the good thing and in this team, and I
think they'll they'll be all right. I mean, everybody's about
not making the tournament and all this stuff, and I
think that's kind of ridiculous, but hopefully we'll get it
together here.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
Jerry Hale, one of the super Kittens who was part
of that Kentucky team that upset Indiana in the Mid
East Regional. I was there in Dayton watching you guys, Jerry,
and it's still People ask me my favorite game that
I ever covered or watched, and that's the one from
fifteen years ago. So yeah, and it's gonna be hard
to top that one. Jerry, Thank you so much. Hope
to see you on game day.

Speaker 7 (01:11:40):
Thank you very much, did Kelly. Happy holidays everyone, and we'll.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
Talk more Kentucky basketball on the other side of the break.
Here on the Big Blue and Siders six thirty WLAP
Welcome back to the Big Blue and Sider, final segment
of our program. This has really been a memory lane
show for me. I hadn't really planned it this way
at the first of the week, but I realized I
hadn't talked to ram in a while on the air
and needed to talk football, talk about the new head coach.

(01:12:06):
But Derek Ramsey and then Jerry Hale was just a
natural because hearing Kevin Grievy share his memories and listening
to Jerry, whom I've known forever, still lives here in town,
and I've known Kevin as well. But Jerry being an
Indiana guy and you know his memories of that Kentucky
I you game. Just a lot of fun talking about that,

(01:12:26):
but so much more going on in the world right now.
I want to start off this segment, though, with the
clarification that everybody got for the most part, when Troy
Aikman went public and I talked about this the other
day when Aikman said I'm out when it comes to
nil dollars. He donated to UCLA, where he played finished
up his career after starting off at Oklahoma. Then I

(01:12:49):
had a great time in UCLA before going on to
the Hall of Fame career as a player with the
Cowboys and now a broadcaster. And he made headlines earlier
in the week when he took aim at the NIL
system and he was talking on a podcast with Richard Deisch,
who was a really fine reporter podcaster when it comes
to sports media, been on my show before. And Aikman

(01:13:12):
was unhappy about the fact that he donated wrote a
check specifically for one recruit who turned out to play
just one year for the Bruins, and according to Troy
didn't even give Akman so much as a thank you
for his payday. So he said, when it comes to
he said, I want to use the LA to be successful,

(01:13:32):
but I'm done with it, meaning the NIL turns out.
The LA Times followed up on it and said, hey,
what about this. But evidently, according to a story in
The Times, the player didn't know who funded his deal,
only that it came from the team's collective, which is
called Men of Westwood. Evidently it's a standard practice for

(01:13:55):
players not to know which donors or alumni contributed. NL
funds that were distributed to the team, and when you
think about it, that makes a lot of sense. Now,
Aikman was thanked by the men of Westwood leadership head
coach Ship Kelly the ad this is according to the Times,

(01:14:18):
and that to me kind of puts the rest to that.
But there are stricter regulations of NIL that should be
in place, and I think they will at some point.
But again, this is as everybody knows, and I've heard
eighties and coaches. I don't like to call it that,
but it's the wild wild West. You know, they need

(01:14:38):
There are some guardrails in place now, and they need more,
no question about that. They need guardrails on themselves. Coaches
do take a look at what's happening at Michigan, take
a look at what's going on with a football playoff
and this Notre Dame mess that I think Notre Dame
bet host. Yes, but Notre Dame should not should not

(01:15:00):
be bitter about acc people stumping for their own league.
That's what they're supposed to do. And I don't have
a dog in the fight. But yes, Miami beat Notre Dame. Yes,
Miami had a better season in terms of Top ten teams,
it'd be top fifteen teams.

Speaker 9 (01:15:19):
It beat.

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
Notre Dame got hosed when Alabama went in. In my opinion,
I don't think Alabama belonged in the playoff, and fair
or not, like it or not, the SEC championship game
should matter. If you're going to play the game, it
should matter on your resume. And Alabama didn't show up.

(01:15:42):
That's not fair. They did. It got beaten by a
better team. They got waxed by a better team, and yes,
one of those teams have bound to lose. But I
do think it matters how you play because I think
it showed that Alabama's got some weaknesses. Granted, Georgia might
be the best team in the country. We'll find out,

(01:16:02):
but I think in terms of body of work that
that game should matter and that the SEC maybe needs
to take a look at how things are being done
right now, and maybe Notre Dame being included and not
Alabama could have pushed that. And if that had happened,
if Notre Dame had gotten in, then people would have

(01:16:23):
sure they would have yelled about Alabama, but they also
would have yelled about Vanderbilt being a ten to two
team and not getting in now, Vandy lost to Texas.
Vandy lost to Alabama. Did Vandy do it? Notre Dame
did and cry and take their ball and go home.

Speaker 4 (01:16:39):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
And here's what Clark Lee said about that they're going
on to play a ball game after a ten and
two year, a great year, when they could have complained,
but they didn't.

Speaker 14 (01:16:49):
Well, we met to kind of announce the ball site
yesterday afternoon. That was before the guys were going into
the wave room to lift, and the message was just, hey,
we you know, we had control over this at Alabama
and at Texas.

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
And we did not do enough.

Speaker 14 (01:17:06):
I think it's really important that we take ownership over
the thing that we did have control over rather than
complain about, you know, whatever decisions are being left out, Like,
we can't be victims in this situation because I think
there's a level of entitlement that exists in that that
that run cuts against the kind of DNA of our program.

(01:17:26):
So the conversation was, Hey, the world expects us to
be disappointed right now, but what we are as excited.
We have a great opportunity and it's a great celebration
on a on a tremendous bowl stage, in a great
city against a really challenging Big Ten opponent. As football people,
which is what we are in this program, it doesn't.
It just it's just so exciting, and so we're looking

(01:17:49):
forward to to this time we get to spend together,
you know. Right Like this morning, we had a short practice,
but it was really just about going out and having
fun around the game that we share and love.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
We'll do that through the week.

Speaker 14 (01:18:01):
We'll turn our attentional high to the next week, get
some time at home for Christmas, and then go have
a great team celebration down in Tampa.

Speaker 1 (01:18:07):
Tampa is where the Outback Bowl used to be played,
but it's now called the Reliah Quest. It's still at
Raymond James Stadium, the home of Billy Rutledge's Tampa Bay Buccaneers,
but it is for the last couple of years been
the Reliah Quest Bowl doesn't roll off the tongue way
Outback Bowl did. But yeah, I'm going to root for
Vanderbilt in that game. Why not because they didn't do

(01:18:29):
what Notre Dame did. They didn't take their ball and
go home. They could have made an argument that they
belonged in a playoff. Notre Dame got hosed. Yes, it did.
I think that Notre Dame belonged, but not at the
expense of Miami. I think at the expense of Alabama.
We'll pick that up tomorrow. I'm gonna leave you with
a clip now from Saturday Night Live hosted by Bob Hucker,
played a dad who traded his kid who wasn't getting

(01:18:51):
it done in a little league to another family. That's
a good night from the garage in Lexington.

Speaker 13 (01:18:56):
I keep my room clean and I get good grades.

Speaker 15 (01:18:59):
Yeah, great grades don't mean anything to me, you know,
catch the damn ball.

Speaker 10 (01:19:03):
Huh huh.

Speaker 4 (01:19:07):
Look, your mother and I think it's best to and
for the team too.

Speaker 13 (01:19:10):
If you leave the house, where do I go?

Speaker 1 (01:19:14):
What do I do?

Speaker 14 (01:19:15):
Well, you're gonna be with the Martin family we've optioned
to you.

Speaker 13 (01:19:22):
But Dad, you know what, maybe it's just a slump.
I'm gonna slump that. It's not a slump, Billy.

Speaker 4 (01:19:27):
Hey, when you're eight years old, it could be a slump. Okay,
you're twelve.

Speaker 7 (01:19:30):
You've peaked, you've.

Speaker 4 (01:19:32):
Peaked, You've had it. Can't you take it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:34):
Like a man? Huh?

Speaker 2 (01:19:35):
Your brother did?

Speaker 13 (01:19:38):
But Dad, I don't even like the Martins. You'll love
it there they'll do math with you.

Speaker 9 (01:19:45):
Who can rate?

Speaker 13 (01:19:46):
How do yos baby come.

Speaker 15 (01:19:47):
On such such tact stating sat out such stacks from

(01:21:17):
type dotting The