Full Show Podcast: 11 May 2025

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Resident Builder podcast with Peter wolf
Camp from News Talks at B. Whether you're painting the ceiling,
fixing the fence, or wondering how to fix that hole
in the wall, give Peter wolf Camp a call on
eight The Resident Builder on News Talks at B.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
The house is a hoo even when it's dark, even
when the grass is overgrown in the yard, even when
the dog is too old to barn. And when you're
sitting at the table trying not to stop mose scissor.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Hole, even when we are ben gone, even when you're
there alone, ld.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
House is a hole even newshost, even when you go
around fund the ones you love your most screamed. Does
broken pants appeen in front of.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Locals vestall when they're gone and leaving them has even
when we'll run, even when you're in there alone.

Speaker 5 (01:44):
Very very good farming and welcome along to the show.
My name is Peter wolf Campus is the Resident Builder
on Sunday. And well, I've moved, I've moved. This is
this is dis combobulating. Just I've moved from where I
regularly broadcast, which is the small studio with a standing
desk too. Well, Basically, it feels like it's everybody's studio,

(02:07):
but it's not. It's my costing studio in a sense.
And so I'm sitting which is slightly unusual for me.
I'm in a much bigger space. It feels like Isaiah,
my producer, is way further away. And the reason that
I've moved over here is that I have a guest
coming into the studio this morning from around seven thirty
for a good chunk of time because we've got a
lot to talk about. And so my guest in the

(02:28):
studio after seven thirty is going to be the Minister
for Building and Construction, Chris Pink, who some time ago
when we chatted, we talked about the possibility of doing
an in person interview over a slightly longer period of
time that would also allow you to send in questions,
whether that's by text or probably some calls as well,

(02:53):
and he very gratefully said that he would or I
was grateful, and so Chris Pink, the Minister for Building
and Construction, will join me in the studio from around
seven thirty onwards. Before then, of course, right now, and
when I say right now, I mean like right right now,
because the lines are open. You can call and we
can talk all things building and construction. It's eight hundred

(03:16):
and eighty ten eighty. It's nine to nine two for
the text that zedbzb from your mobile phone. Remember there
is a small fee for that. And if you'd like
to send me an email, it's Pete at Newstalk zedb
dot co dot NZ. So I trust you had a
good week For those in the sort of upper part
of the North Island, Auckland in particular, on Friday, we

(03:38):
were reminded again seemingly of the need to build in
terms of climate resistance or resilience. Rather, I wasn't in
Auckland on Friday. I happen to be actually in Wellington
on Friday, but I saw some video images and certainly
I talked to the family and at the skies opened up,

(04:00):
a bucketed down. There was not extensive flooding, but there
was certainly localized flooding and considerable disruption, it seems, and
it feels like we all know this now that these
sorts of weather events are more and more common. There
used to be a definition or there still is, around

(04:21):
a one and one hundred year flood event. And I'm
pretty sure I've mentioned before. You know, I've probably been
experienced maybe five or six of those. And while I
am getting older, and I'm older this week than I
was last week, you know, these sorts of events are
happening over and over and over again, and we're going

(04:45):
to have to deal with it in terms of where
we put our houses, how we build them, how we
do infrastructure and so on. So happy to talk about that.
I would also like to think, as a result of
my one of my trips during the course of the week,
that I bring a bit of a new insight into
a couple of things. I had the opportunity on Friday

(05:07):
to go and visit Brands, the Building Research Association of
New Zealand. They are based in a fairly large sort
of compound north of Wellington in Upper Hut and I
had an invitation from their general manager of research to
come and have a look through. That's Chris Litton. They

(05:29):
were incredibly generous with their time and I really do
sort of publicly want to acknowledge them for their hospitality,
for the welcome, for sort of arranging for me to
speak to different experts in different fields, to go for
a tour of their facilities which are extensive and have
been expanded rapidly in order for them to do even

(05:51):
better testing on things that are really really important, like
for example, and I was listening to Kerry actually talking
with the fens of public relations person about lithium mion batteries.
What happens when there's a fire. And there's a brand
new fire testing laboratory that's been developed at Brands that
will allow testing of entire buildings, like a small building,

(06:12):
not just you know, one part of it, but an
entire building. It will allow testing of facades up to
three stories and allow testing in various furnaces as to
see what happens when fire strikes and the impact of
fire spread and fire penetrations, and what type of sealance work.
So I you know, I like talking about building stuff.

(06:34):
I like talking about the technicalities of building stuff. And
in one we went to the structural lab and this
is one for all of the tradees who might be listening.
You know, if you've ever done if you've used plaster
boarders bracing, you know that there's a pattern right how
you're supposed to fix the do the fastness. So typically

(06:55):
it's in from the corner fifty mil then fifty fifty
to fifty seventy five, seventy five, then one fifty around
the perimeter. You've got to make sure that your fixings
are at least twelve millimeters in from the perimeter, etc. Etc.
And then depending on what type of bracing it is,
it'll have just the fixings with standard plaster board, it'll
have the standard plaster board plus a hole down, et cetera, etc.

(07:18):
And as it happened when I was there in the lab,
they were testing a full sized sheet of plasterboard. I
think it was to board. I'm pretty sure that had
been nailed off as per a GS one, so the
kind of lowest type of bracing without the hold downs.
And so this wall was set up on a rig

(07:39):
and they had a ram that was attached to the
top of it that they could rack the whole thing
back and forth as if it was experiencing seismic movement
due to an earthquake, and then watching it essentially move,
and I guess they test sometimes to destruction as well.
So I found it fascinating. And again my thanks to

(08:00):
the team at Brands for a very very warm, welcome,
pretty miserable day and Wellington on Friday, but exceptionally beautiful
day on Saturday at the Better Home and Living Show,
which is still on today. Right, Oh, give me a
call if you've got a question of a building nature.
The lines are open. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty
we can talk. I think at this time of year,

(08:24):
maintenance is really really important. Maintenance is always important. But
hopefully you've done your maintenance and you're ready for the winter,
whether that's the wind, whether that's the rain, whether that's
the cold that's coming. Hopefully you've done some stuff to
prepare the house and get ready for winter. But if
you need some help with that and I can offer
some advice, well that'll be great. Eight hundred eighty ten

(08:46):
eighty is that number to call if again, just sort
of stepping forward a little bit, so the Minister for
Building and Construction, Chris Pink will be in the studio.
So if you've got if we're going to take questions,
it's going to be very very specific one. So the
reason I wanted to get the Minister in in my
presentation in Wellington yesterday around trying to sort of look

(09:10):
at and provide some insight into the quite extensive changes
that are proposed for the regulations that control what we
can build and where we can build and how we build. So,
whether that's remote inspections, whether it's the wind back or
the changes to H one, which is the part of

(09:30):
the Building Code that deals with energy efficiency and insulation
in particular, whether it's self certification for builders that's been
in the news a fair amount recently, whether it's the
introduction of legislation that might see granny flats up to
seventy square meters being able to be built without necessarily
requiring a building consent, toughening rules about LBPS and sort

(09:54):
of trying to clamp down on lbp's licensed building practitioners
who don't perform particularly well. That's out there as well.
There's a whole host of regulatory and legislative changes that
are being talked about that relates specifically to building and
construction in New Zealand. So we'll take a deep dive

(10:15):
into that in the next hour of the show, but
right now the lines are open. The opportunity is yours
to talk all things building and construction. If you've got
a project that's underway, I know, spend a bit of
time in Wellington the Home Show yesterday, chatting with people
about the various sort of dilemmas, challenges, problems that they
might have in terms of, you know, remediation after a flood,

(10:38):
for example, or what choices do I make around the
type of joinery that I might be installing. All of
these sorts of things. There's just so much to talk about,
so I'll stop, you can start. The lines are open.
The number to call eight hundred eighty ten eighty call
me out a squeaky.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Door or squeaky floor, get the right advice from Peter Wolfcare,
the resident builder on News Talks NB.

Speaker 5 (11:02):
Wrighty own News TALKSB. The lines are open for you.
Eight hundred eighty ten are taking your calls right through
till about seven thirty and then we will take a
couple of calls. But it's an opportunity perhaps to spend
a little bit of time with the Minister for Construction
and or Building and Construction Chris Penk but right now
would love to hear from you. So if you've got

(11:23):
a question of a building nature and it look to
be fair, it's a fairly wide topic. So if there's
anything that is going on that you're unsure about, I
listened with some interest. Funnily enough, on my sort of
list of topics to discuss or to take a bit
of a deep dive into, was lithium ion batteries and

(11:44):
looking after them safely and on the Obviously, during the
course of the week, Kerry reached out to FENS, which
is far in an emergency in New Zealand, to talk
to one of their experts about it. So I was
listening to that interview in the little segment at the
end of Jim's show that has highlights from Kerry's show
and so on, so that that's been covered off, but

(12:07):
I was the reason I wanted to raise it is
that I guess for most of us who are either
tradespeople or if you are doing an extensive amount of
DIYF you're doing a fair amount of work at home,
chances are you've got a number of cordless tools. Now,
obviously if they're cordless, they're running on a battery. A

(12:27):
significant number of those batteries would be lithium iron batteries
with kind of most power tool brands now have moved
to lithumi and iron batteries, and I was trying to
do a bit of a calculation in my head the
other day when I was thinking about this about like
how many batteries I would actually have in terms of
just for tools, and I think I got to close

(12:50):
to twenty odd. I would say it possibly is a
bit more than that. Some of those will be in
the back of the ute with the kit that I
keep in the back of the ute for when I'm
working offsite. Then I've got a setup in the workshop
as well, a couple of different brands of power tools.
I've got you know, drills and drivers and skill saws

(13:11):
and blowers and torches and routers and inflators and what else.
There's quite an extensive range of bits and pieces with
sort of the heavier batteries in them. Then there's you know,
some of the nail guns have a slightly smaller, more
compact battery. Then I've still got some old ten vault

(13:33):
stuff that hasn't a small battery as well. I use
that quite a bit this week as I was trying
to sand up ballasters and things like that. And every
now and then you hear stories about with your mind
batteries bursting into flame, often while something else is going,
you know, like a battery in good condition, stored on
a flat surface, away from a heat source and so on,

(13:56):
seems to be fairly low risk of sort of spontaneous combustion.
But I must after reading a couple of stories this
is like a year year and a half ago, about
a battery that just seemed to spontaneously combust I kind
of went through and looked at where I stored batteries
when they're not in use, looked at where I located

(14:18):
charges for when I am charging the battery, and changed
a few practices so the batteries aren't jumbled up like
in a drawer or in a pile. They're all set
out next to each other. I've moved them slightly so
they're in a slightly cooler part of the workshop. And
I've certainly got into the habit of not leaving the

(14:38):
battery on the charger for much longer than it needs
to fully charge it. So even with lithium ion batteries,
and even you know, like the charges that come with
most professional cordless tools nowadays have a feature in them
where they charge almost to completely charged, and then once

(14:58):
they've reached that, they go on to a trickle charge.
They don't just keep charging at the same rate that
they used to, which I'm sure is a safety device
and prevents perhaps batteries sitting on a charger overnight, you know,
ten or twelve hours and overheating at that time. I'm
pretty sure that that's the case. But either way, I've
tried to sort of not schedule. That sounds a bit pretentious,

(15:20):
but I've tried to sort of if I am charging
batteries while I'm in the workshop, i'll charge them while
I'm in the workshop. I've moved away from charging them,
let's say overnight. If I finish at the end of
the day and the battery's flat, generally i've got a spare,
so I'll leave that one alone, and I'll put it
on the charger the following day, and I turn the

(15:41):
charges off overnight as well, so don't leave them on
even without a battery in them. And I've noticed too
that I've tried to move away from, Hopefully this is
helpful to you. I've tried to move away from having
like taking the battery. When I've run the battery down,
it's no longer turning the drill or the circular saw
or the receip saw or the blower or the whatever

(16:04):
tool that I'm using. Don't put it on the charger
straight away. I leave it for a little while, let
it kind of cool down, and then I put it
on the charger. So and also, look, if you've dropped
your battery and there's a chip out of the corner,
or you notice that it gets really hot when you're
using it, then definitely, definitely, definitely basically get rid of it,

(16:29):
but in the right way. I followed a I was
heading up for a meeting a couple of weeks ago,
and I noticed there was a rubbish truck general sort
of council collections parked up in a little reserve with
a lot of smoke coming out of the back of it.
I think there were a couple of fire engines there

(16:50):
kind of observing at the stage. But obviously the driver
had noticed that there was smoke coming out of the
back of the truck, had pulled off to a safe area,
and then as I went past there later on, that
obviously tipped the truck up and tripped up the back,
dropped everything on the ground, and that allowed the fire
service to find the source of the fire and put
it out. But you know, that was away from other people,

(17:12):
it was away from other buildings and so on. But
these sorts of fires because people basically are lazy, right,
will inconsiderate probably a combination of the two. And if
they're lithium ion batteries of all shapes and sizes into
general refuse where potentially they can be crushed and damage
and start fires. So I think we do need to

(17:35):
be just got to be better at how we dispose
of them. And I have to say what I didn't
realize listening to Kerries the repeat of Kerri's interview with
Fens is that vapes. Not that I vape, and I
know very few people who do, but the vapes have
liftium ion batteries in them, even the disposable ones, and
I would say ninety nine percent of those will go

(17:57):
on the rubbishmen. People are probably not taking those to
an approved recycler for this safe disposal of those. Right here,
we should talk about that. Oh eight, one hundred and
eighty ten eighty is the number to call and Chris,
good morning to you. It's Chris very well.

Speaker 6 (18:17):
Yeah, there's a few things on my mind anyway. One
of them was about your brands down there a bit.
Do brands do any sort of public displays or sort
of videos and stuff of what they actually do down there.

Speaker 5 (18:35):
Oh, brands does a massive amount of public work, right,
So essentially all of the reports, all of the appraisals
are available online. And like, if you're a trade you
probably get their magazine. So the Brands that Build magazine
comes out monthly. One of the things I talked about,

(18:57):
or they mentioned with their comms team yesterday, is that
they're looking to digitize that as well. So at the moment,
you can find any article from the brand's library, and
we're talking thousands of articles now right online. So I
would just go to search for Brands and Build Magazine
and you'll find an index of all of their articles.

(19:21):
And look, I actually use their information a lot, and
I use it quite a lot for presentations because they've
got really good summaries of you know, the effectiveness of
glazing or the benefits of ventilation and so on. So, yes,
there is a lot of public information. It's basically what
they do. They're an educator. There are a lab and

(19:41):
an educator.

Speaker 6 (19:42):
It'll be good to see sort of what goes on
behind the scenes to get through the conclusions and whatnot
before the testing.

Speaker 5 (19:51):
Yeah, Look, I'm pretty sure that it won't take you
too long to find all of that information online. And
like I say, I regularly if I'm searching for something,
So if I'm doing a bit of research into I
don't know the effectiveness of ventilation or the active mold
or something like that, chances are I'll end up with
a brand's piece of research.

Speaker 6 (20:12):
Yep, and a few other two other things was on
my house in Matter and Matamatter was about changing from
my single glazed windows to a double glazing system, and
I was thinking about putting in new windows because I've

(20:33):
got holdersbestos highline on the gables and above in between
the and above all the windows and between the bricks,
and looks like the high line goes in behind the
alven infint of the current windows, and which doesn't really

(20:54):
make it very waterproof by the look of it.

Speaker 5 (20:56):
I was going to say, that's that's like directive of
what are in behind the extrusion rather than out over
the front.

Speaker 6 (21:03):
And it's like it goes in behind the I'm not
too sure if it just goes into the groove around
and behind the aluminium fin and then just sort of
it comes out behind into the brick cavity and then
down away, I guess. But you can see that there's
a few little wet spots or you know where the

(21:25):
plaster boards get in them.

Speaker 5 (21:26):
But I know the windows, you're starting to see some
some issues.

Speaker 6 (21:34):
There's the seventh that's was built in the late seventies
or something, so's been there a while, okay, and I
was sort of wondering.

Speaker 5 (21:47):
Yeah, I mean, look at it makes a lot of
sense even without seeing it to address that issue. It's
a it's a surprising methodology in the sense of having
the cladding sort of directing water and behind the windows.
Maybe there used to be be of seilant there that's
that's diminished over time. Look, certainly, you know, I think

(22:09):
the juries out in terms of we all know that
double glazing is way more effective. In fact, if you
get the right combination of double glazing and joinery, you
can get almost ten times like it's nine point two
or something like that, almost ten times the thermal performance

(22:30):
out of a shift from single glaze to double glazed,
which you know is a considerable saving. Right. We're not
talking a small increment or saving in terms of energy efficiency, right,
it is way more energy efficient. So your existing joinery.
It's aluminium, yes, it's am here, okay. And if it's

(22:51):
a nineteen seventies house, it's probably getting towards sort of
end of life in terms of the powder coat on
the joinery will have diminished, the frames themselves will be
moving a little bit, the hard ware will be moving.
So then you've got a couple of options in terms
of do you opt to stay with aluminium and go

(23:14):
for double glazing as well. I suppose you could make
the choice and go All I want to do is
the double glazing. What you might find is that most
of those sashes are not suitable for retrofit. So whoever
does the retrofit will need to make new sashes, and
whether or not it's the right choice. Let's say to
make a new sash to fit into an old frame,

(23:37):
You'll have to do the numbers on that. I'm thinking
that if you wanted to, and if you were prepared
to invest in it, you'd pull the old frames out
with the glazing in them and replace them with new frames.
Then you've got options there in terms of aluminium joinery
or uPVC joinery, so you'd want to look at both

(23:58):
of those. And then I guess, like the asbestos cladding
that you think you've got on the proper, like if
you have to cut into it or anything like that,
you'd have to be super cautious around that. And I
think if you were having to cut into it, you'd
probably go, this is my opportunity to remove it. But
then that needs to be done by a licensed practitioner,

(24:23):
let's say, not an LBP necessary, but someone who has
a license and asbestos removal, and typically part of their
process is that they do the work and then it's
independently audited by an inspector who comes along make sure
that the ground. You know that there's no contamination of
the ground, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So you know,

(24:43):
what you're proposing is kind of going to be quite
a bit of work.

Speaker 6 (24:48):
Oh, it's interesting that they're come along and audited it,
and yeah.

Speaker 5 (24:53):
But the auditing, you can kind of see the logic
to the auditing, because you know, the concern is, let's
say you get a crew in and maybe they haven't
done a particularly good job and they've inadvertently contaminated other areas.
So you know, as the homeowner, you want to be
confident that when you go outside or even within your house,

(25:14):
that they haven't inadvertently contaminated the house. And I have
heard a couple of stories where people have undertaken asbestos removal,
in some cases without knowing that the material was asbestos
will contained asbestos ACM, and then suddenly they've been made aware,
They get someone into test and they find that the

(25:34):
removal work has in fact contaminated large areas than just
the work area. So, okay, look, it's I suppose it
sounds like it's gone from what might have been a
quite small job. I've got to sort out my windows too.
Now I am going to sort out my windows, which
has got the benefit of being able to add double glazing.

(25:56):
But now you've got work to do, you know, removing
sections of cladding and replacing that with something that's that's
more updated.

Speaker 6 (26:03):
Yeah, that's fine. I wanted to do that anyway, get
rid of the asbestos. But I was just wandering to
see if I should use BBC or whether I use
the new centrifixed system which sort of pushes the window
frame back in line with the timber.

Speaker 5 (26:20):
Yeah, but that's one of the features of the uPVC
as well. Typically, so I've started to do a little
bit of work with a company called Stark so s
T a r K. And you know, one of in fact,
I was looking at a model the other day. You know,

(26:41):
one of the things that unfortunately we've done kind of
as a result of having moving from having direct fixed
cladding to having cladding on cavities is that we ended
up sort of pushing our windows out, and as we've
moved to having double glazing, we end up with all
of the insulation properties of the double blazing forty to

(27:01):
fifty millimeters out from our framing line, which is where
all of our insulation is for our wall insulation, and
that gap all the way around the perimeter of the
window obviously is almost impossible to insulate. It's very, very
difficult to insulate that. So the whole move to going,
let's bring our glazing back in line with the building line,

(27:25):
so the actual framing and the insulation that goes in it.
That's a really like it seems like a simple fix.
It's not always a simple fix, but it makes a
radical difference to the actual thermal performance of the entire envelope.
So if you imagine the wall, you know, if you've
got your windows hanging out from your building line, you've

(27:45):
got that gap all the way around. So yeah, you've
put the double glazing in, but the overall effectiveness of
that wall in terms of its ability to keep you warm,
is much diminished. So if you again have a look
at the Stark website, there's recess fitting is really easily
done on there. You bring the window in and you
line up that and then it's easy err to insulate

(28:08):
around the perimeter as well. And I actually saw that
on a job, a big retrofit job. So nineteen fifty's
house that the owners have committed themselves to energy efficiency,
they've taken out all of their old in fact, timber
joiner excuse me, single glazed, took that out, replaced it

(28:28):
with the new uPVC joinery, set it back in line,
well sealed, well insulated around the perimeter. It'll be a
radically different house to live in the future.

Speaker 6 (28:39):
And then and then can they solve the brick cavity with.

Speaker 5 (28:44):
It's just a flashing hotaiel to bring it out.

Speaker 6 (28:47):
Yeah, so they can do that relatively easy on them,
retrofit in between the bricks.

Speaker 5 (28:52):
Certainly with this in particularly the Stark system there is
a flashing suite that goes with it that makes it
easier to do recess fitting.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
Yes, okay, very good, so check it. Very good.

Speaker 5 (29:08):
Thank you all the very best. You're nice to chat
and good luck with that project.

Speaker 6 (29:12):
Yep, we'll have a great show and a great talk
with Chris.

Speaker 5 (29:15):
You're looking forward to it. Thanks mate, all the best,
Take care. Chris got a couple of really good text
messages that are coming through as well. Remember once Chris Pink,
who was the Minister for Building Construction is with us,
I'm happy to sort of for you to fire through
questions if there's any particular part of the changes that
have been proposed that you would like to get, you know,

(29:38):
to try and be as specific as we can be.
It was one of the interesting things and sort of
I spent a bit of time during the week trying
to look through all of the proposed changes, read press releases,
and drill down into the detail, because in the end,
the devil is always in the detail, right, How is
this actually going to work, which part of which legislation

(29:59):
works with other pieces of legislation, et cetera, et cetera.
So if you're interested in it, and we should be
because it's going to change our built environment. You know,
try and be as specific as you can with your
text questions. Right, the lines are open eight hundred eighty
ten eighty. We want to talk buildings retro fit, we
want to talk double glazing, we want to talk the

(30:20):
benefits of Actually this was I'll take a break. I
had when I was down at Brands. They had what
looked like a fairly typical, not particularly high standard, you know,
one hundred and twenty square meter fiber cment board, old
aluminium jeweery, you know, the sort of typical house that

(30:43):
you'd see in an average subdivision from forty or fifty
years ago. And then they were looking at how that
performs and what they can do to make it a
better house. And it was full size house was great. Anyway,
we'll talk a little bit more about that after the break.
If you'd like to join us, The lines are open.
The number two call is eight hundred eighty ten eighty.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
Helping you get those DIY projects done right. The resident
builder with Peta Wolfcare call, Oh, eight hundred eighty Youth
talksb right.

Speaker 5 (31:13):
Your Own News Talks b and ah. They've turned the
clock off. That's not terribly helpful. I might have to
sort that out, which leaves me looking around for the time,
which is six forty three, So that's time for you
to call, oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty, if
you've got a building question, whether it's sort of that
that larger scale like what Chris is contemplating of hey,

(31:35):
joinery has probably reached the end of its serviceable life.
Obviously in his case it's older aluminium joinery which has
served him well and probably being quite durable, but probably
reaching end of life. It's got single glazed and it's
it's an opportunity to upgrade the date the glazing from
single glaze to double glaze, and then how it fits

(31:57):
in it's into breckwork, which is a little sort of
challenging but sort of not at the same time, and
then issues with some old building materials around as well,
which is you know, most likely containing asbestos. So we've
talked about asbestos a fair amount, and I just want
to emphasize again but in most cases, left inert and

(32:19):
on its own, the risk to health is realistically quite low.
Where the risk occurs is when people don't realize that
it is asbestos and start you know, using a whole
saw for example, to cut in a down light or
add a vent for extraction or something like that. Or

(32:40):
it starts to de cray and people, you know, start
breaking pieces off and the fibers become friable, they become airborne,
and then that's where the potential exposure and the long
term health damage can occur from there. But you know,
inert and on its own, it's actually well, it's low risk.

(33:01):
Let's say that's probably the best way to describe it.
We'll talk about the house in just a moment. Quick
text from someone who said, hey, look we're in the
process of clearing out thirty years of assorted wood from
underneath the house. I can relate to that. Where is
the best cheapest place to get rid of it? On
the north shore? I presume you mean the north shore
of Auckland. The tip Now this is their words, not mine.

(33:21):
The tip charge is a fortune to dispose of it,
and even more to dump it on their woodpile versus
the general waste exclamation mark from Tony. Yes, tip fees
are expensive and a lot of that is government increasing
the waste levee that applies to everyone that brings waste
into the large landfill sites, and I would imagine part

(33:45):
of the reason that that waste levee keeps going up
is because we want to dissuade people from just sending
everything to landfill, so diversion is key. Hence, I assume
your reference to a wood pile versus general waste. I
didn't realize that they would charge you wherever you've been
to charge more to put it on the woodpile. If

(34:07):
you feel like a drive down to Devenport, the Resource
Recovery Center in Devonport, or Resource Recovery Devenport, the Community
Recycling center there, we'll certainly take your timber. You'll pay
a fee for it going over the waybridge, but if
it goes into the timber pile, we certainly I don't

(34:27):
believe I could check, but I don't believe that we
charge you more for timber than we would for general waste.
In fact, if anything, would probably do it the other
way around. If it's material that can be recycled and
diverted generally that's at a slightly lower rate. So come
on down to Devenport, bring us your timber, particularly if

(34:48):
you've sorted it out, which is great because I think
we really want to encourage people to do that. You know,
if you're going to I suppose going to landfill doesn't
make any difference. But what we've got to do is
get people not to just think about taking everything to landfill.
If you're tidying up around the house, think about what

(35:09):
can be diverted. And then this my own little campaign,
and we're going to be promoting this at the center soon.
Is you know, when you arrive at the transfer station,
if they've got diversion available, and by that I mean
somewhere for green waste, somewhere for hard fill, somewhere for metal,
somewhere for timber, somewhere for plastics and polystyrenes and all

(35:31):
of these things. Pipework, you know, PBC pipework. All of
these things now are able to be able to either
be diverted or recycled. So when you arrive, I want
to encourage people to go on your trailer or in
the back of the vehicle, have those all in the
areas that you know collected, right, So put your timber

(35:51):
on one side, put your hard full on the other side,
put your green waste in a couple of bags, so
that when you arrive at the center. You can do
the diversion a lot easier, RIGHTO. I'm on the ramp
this morning. Oh eight hundred and eighty, ten eighty. We'll
talk to DEBI after the break.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
God was but maybe called Pete first vide or gave
the resident builder news talks.

Speaker 7 (36:10):
They'd be.

Speaker 5 (36:12):
Right ee my turn. Oh eight hundred eighty Debbie, A
very good morning to you. And I won't forget to
answer a couple of texts about this disposal of timber
as well, so we'll come to that in the moment.
But Debbie, good morning to you.

Speaker 8 (36:27):
Good morning.

Speaker 4 (36:28):
How are you very well?

Speaker 5 (36:29):
Thanks?

Speaker 8 (36:31):
That's good. Hey, I just put your opinion on a
liquid membrane for your growth. Have you heard anything about
companies that are offering the water press membrane?

Speaker 5 (36:45):
Yes, yep, yep. I mean there's there's like there's a
number of different types of products and for different applications.
So what's the intent of what you might be wanting
to use that for?

Speaker 8 (37:03):
Well, originally they contact them. I don't know whether you're
allowed to name companies on here, are you or not.

Speaker 5 (37:11):
I think let's let's just leave it alone for now
and then just talk generally let's say, okay, cool.

Speaker 8 (37:20):
Like I just don't want to. I want to know
also whether this is a company that I can trust,
also because there's quite a few out there, and i
have read some reviews in this company and I'm not
sure whether I should put my money in it or
not that anyway, what I'm trying to achieve is our

(37:40):
roof and is painting, and we probably needs rescrewing as well.
We're not quite sure. We think ruth is fine, but
the proposal I got, the quote I got from them
was a lot cheaper than actually physically getting someone up
there to paint it. And they just spray a membrane

(38:03):
with a tinted color in it. So it's all painted
and protected for ten years, right, And it's a lot
getting it painted, Yeah, which.

Speaker 5 (38:15):
Is interesting given that you know, I mean, painting is
basically the same process, isn't it?

Speaker 8 (38:20):
So look, I guess sorry, they put a polyrisone corect
liquid membrane on it.

Speaker 5 (38:28):
Right, yep? Okay, what type of roof is it?

Speaker 4 (38:34):
Is it?

Speaker 5 (38:34):
Long run of some description?

Speaker 6 (38:37):
Yeah, it's just ten yeah roughly how old?

Speaker 8 (38:41):
Oh gosh, the house is built in this sixties?

Speaker 6 (38:46):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (38:46):
Okay, all right, so I mean, you know, like in general,
typically roofs have a bit of a lifespan. Now I've
pulled off roofs that have been way beyond their lifespan
in the sense of you know, they there's holes in
them and the fixings are started to decay and then
so on, and then they're probably largeted thirty years longer

(39:08):
than their intended lifespan and so on. But something in
the nineteen sixties, if it's in reasonable condition, you could
extend its life a little bit, but in the end,
the iron will continue to deteriorate at a certain rate. Right,
So I think, you know, I'd be looking at it

(39:29):
going no matter what I do, is the iron eventually
going to reach the end of its life, in which
case anything that I do is perhaps going to delay
that a little bit, but it's not going to extend
its life indefinitely. So I think, you know, getting someone
on site to look at it physically and give you

(39:50):
a sort of an independent assessment would be a really
good idea. My sort of advice around having people do
roofing workers that you choose someone who's a member of
the Roofing Association of New Zealand. So if you just
go and search for Roofing Association of New Zealand. They've
got an online obviously, they're online, and then you can

(40:11):
search for contractors that are part of the Roofing Association
of New Zealand. And I think, and I've said this
as a general comment about all sort of trade bodies,
that if people have taken the time to commit themselves
to an association, it typically means that they're serious about
their work. So I would sort of encourage you to

(40:33):
use someone who's a member of the Roofing Association of
New Zealand. It would be.

Speaker 8 (40:41):
Yeah, I might have to do a bit of research
they are. What are your thoughts on this liquid membrane?
Is there any different than painting? Is it?

Speaker 5 (40:51):
It is different than painting? Yeah, it is different than painting.
And I think, like with all things, you've got to
be cautious around offering up guarantees and warranties in that way,
you know, but there is also a place for it.
And just recently, like within the last two weeks, I
applied a membrane coating over the top of an old

(41:12):
existing roof. But it was relatively small area on a
flat roof that I needed to just extend the life
of so I think in that sense, I made a
simple decision that I would use a particular product for that. Debbie,
I'm going to have to go for the news, sport
and weather. We'll be back straight after that to keep taking.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Your calls doing of the house, sorting the garden, asked
Pete for a hand. The Resident Builder with Peter Wolfcab
called eight News TALKSB.

Speaker 5 (41:43):
Write your own news TALKSB. If you've got a question
of a building nature, I'd love to hear from you.
Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is that number
to call? Good morning. My name's Peak wolf Camp. This
is the Resident Builder on Sunday show, and we're talking
all things building construction. Sort of a slight variation to
the show today is that we have the opportunity to

(42:04):
spend some time. I have to say in actually, I
think it's this week marks eleven years of doing the show.
I was trying to think about it last night, thinking
it's about like five hundred and fifty shows. I reckon thereabouts.
So thank you for your patience while I still stuff

(42:24):
things up after trying to do this five hundred and
fifty times, and I still crash into the news. I
need to work on that anyway. I think in all
of that time, while I've done a couple of interviews
with various government ministers, first time that any of them
have sort of said, ah, I'll come to the studio.
So Chris Pink, we'll be in the studio from around

(42:47):
seven thirty this morning and we'll stretch that out. We'll
take that right through to jumping in with through climb
past at eight thirty, so plenty of time. If you've
got some texts that you'd like to fire to the minister,
by all means send those through as well, and there
might be an opportunity for some phone calls as well.
But right now we'll continue to talk about all things
building and construction. I just wanted to just go back

(43:10):
to the text before the break as well, around the
timber and disposal of timber. It was one of the
discussions I had with one of the team at Brands
when I was down there on Friday, because they have
actually this is quite cool. They've developed, through the Rebrie system,

(43:32):
a list of all of the recycling centers so you
can search right across the country and go I've got X.
You know timber, concrete, hardfill, metal, PBC, pipe, batteries that
I want to dispose of in a responsible manner. And
then by location, it will tell you who is available

(43:55):
to take that material. So it might be like specialist
recyclers that only take I met a guy on Wellington
yes today, who does you know battery recycling out of
electronic devices? So okay, you've got an old phone or
an old laptop, you want to dispose of it responsibly,
you can take it to that particular charity that does
the recycling. We used to have Abilities group in Auckland.

(44:17):
Undoubtedly they'll come back. Some local transfer stations will accept
certain types of material and others. You can find all
of that now on a brand new website. So that's
pretty cool. Just with regard to getting in the sense
disposing of leftover building materials, as in thirty years of
timber undneath the house, I don't quite have thirty years

(44:38):
of timber, but I'm getting up to twenty nine years
of timber stored underneath my house. I look at that,
and every now and then I go and fossic around
underneath the house, and I go, do I really need
that piece of architrave? That little profile that I had
made fifteen years ago. Do I need to hang on
to that? Do I really need to keep that piece
of sacred carity that I've been hanging on to for

(44:58):
thirty years? That all it's doing now is providing a
home for borer. So I get exactly where you're coming from.
Don't make a lot of progress in getting through it.
And then the moment where you go underneath the house
and you fossic around, you find just that piece of
timber that you needed, or more likely you decide that

(45:19):
you're going to have a big tidy up, You get
rid of that piece of timber, and then a week
later you'll need it. In the same way, I tipped
out a box of assorted hardware and screws and but
some pieces.

Speaker 4 (45:29):
A little while ago.

Speaker 5 (45:31):
Sure as eggs are eggs, a week later I needed
that particular screw or washer or fasten or fixing or
clip or something like that, Which is just me justifying
to myself that you shouldn't throw anything out, but I
need to clear up some space. So thirty years of
timber underneath the house, where do you take it? Find
a local recycling center who will be able to divert

(45:53):
that from landfill, and there are a couple of companies
out there who will also offer that diversion drop a bin,
so Green Gorilla for example, will do that. Interestingly enough,
the Devonport Recycling Center now has a been service as well.
So this I mentioned that because this particular person was
on the shore and was looking north shore of Auckland right.

(46:17):
Nineteen eighties house with original single glazed aluminium jowinery and
remove interior frames. Exterior is five US cement board. We're
keen to change the color of the aluminium and upgrade
to double glazing, but I like to keep the remoove
frames inside. What options do we have? Nineteen eighties single
glazed aluminium jewinery. You can retrofit double glazing typically to that.

(46:41):
In some cases they may need to make a new sash,
in which case it will be a slightly different color,
just allowing for age to the frame that it might
sit into, in which case you could go ahead do
the upgrade, upgrade the joinery or the sashes in some

(47:02):
cases with new beads and maybe a new actual sash,
get the double glazing in and then have the whole
lot brought together by then recoating all of your existing
aluminium frames, and I'd probably go to someone like Nano
Clear for that as well, and that'll sort of bring
everything together, I think, which is a real advantage in there.

(47:25):
Or your other option is to pull the entire frame
out and go from there. Hey, Pete, we built one
hundred and forty square meter shed mentions a brand which
is about five meters to the apex of the ridge.
Four years ago they supplied a synthetic white underlay for
the roof. Can't remember the brand. It's now started to
disintegrate and rip. Do you know the reason for this?
And have any people listening had the same problem? What

(47:49):
I think happens quite a lot, and it sounds odd,
and I'm sure there's very good reason for it. So,
for example, if you're doing a car port that is
open as in it doesn't have any sites, which is
by its nature the definition of a car port, typically
we don't put a roofing una underneath it because they
tend to deteriorate. And if you've done a large shed

(48:11):
with a roofing underlay, it will probably deteriorate as well,
and that's why we don't typically tend to do it.
In terms of fixing it, well, you can try and
patch it from underneath, but it won't be terribly successful realistically.
It's kind of like pull the roof off, remove the paper,
or get another type of roofing underlay that is okay

(48:34):
to be exposed to the elements. Because think about most
instances of putting a roofing underlay onto a building. It's
then in an enclosed space, right, it's in your attic. Effectively,
it's not exposed to the elements. A shed is, and
that's very much the problem with that open line. Talk
back on all things building and construction. Mike, A very

(48:55):
good morning to you.

Speaker 7 (48:56):
Can I pete Healthy Holmes question. Yeah, picturey eight late
eighteen hundreds of villa. It was once a converted into
two flats. Now it has a kitchen that's sort of
in the middle of the building. And what do we
do if do we need to do anything for healthy homes?

(49:19):
I mean the closest exterior wall is about two point
five meters away from the kitchen.

Speaker 5 (49:26):
So the part of the healthy Homes legislation that would
impact there is extraction from the kitchen area.

Speaker 7 (49:33):
Extraction. I think you're supposed to have an open window, aren't.

Speaker 5 (49:35):
You no opening window? I don't think for healthy home
standards will qualify it needs to be extraction. Interestingly enough,
that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be a range hood.
So again, in your situation, I'm thinking if the kitchen
is located kind of in the center of the house
and the actual cooking top is the range or the

(50:00):
hobs are not necessarily located near an exterior wall, it
can be a little bit challenging going from there to
the exterior. So in that instance, there, I think you
would get Healthy Home certification or compliance if you were
to install install simply a through wall extraction in that area. Now,

(50:23):
and that's pretty straightforward, right, Obviously you've got to get
power to that location. But you know, if you find
that you put it in a wall reasonably close to
an existing power point, you might be able to divert
or get a cable down to there to then power
up the extraction. So a through wall kit in the
kitchen area will be enough to satisfy Healthy Home standards.

Speaker 7 (50:47):
But like we're in the middle of a house, we're
not anywhere near an exterior.

Speaker 5 (50:52):
Wall, right, what about is it two storied?

Speaker 1 (51:03):
No?

Speaker 7 (51:03):
But if we wanted to go up through the roof,
it would mean that like if you used a range,
but you'd be going up three meters to get it
through the roof.

Speaker 5 (51:12):
Yes, which is challenging but not impossible. I mean, I
don't think it's ideal, but there are through roofkits or
more importantly, you could go from the you could go
from if you can get into the roof right, then
you can travel through the roof space and out to

(51:32):
the safite.

Speaker 7 (51:33):
For example, how powerful is a fan to go that far?

Speaker 5 (51:38):
What I would do in that instance is typically there
there is actually calculations for the type of ducting you
can use and the size of the fan that you need.
So you would probably need to go to smooth ducting,
so a rigid ducting system rather than the flexible stuff.
And what you might end up doing is putting an
inline fan or possibly even two fans, so you might

(52:00):
have one that's close to the cooking area. And then
if you've got a particularly long run, so anything over
about six meters is not really going to work right, okay,
but anything under six meters then you need to account
for the type of material that you want that air
to go through. So rigiducting rather than flexible. There's going

(52:23):
to be the answer there. It's solvable. What it might
mean is that you need to hunt around and find
like someone who does extraction as a professional job, right not,
just have a go day and they'll be able to
determine the flow. And I'll tell you what's really quite
interesting is if you are going to get a professional
to do the extraction for you, and like I say,

(52:46):
there are people who is this is what they do,
this is the area of expertise. You can also test it.
So once it's been installed, you know, it'll say it'll
have a flow rate of x cubic meters per minute
or something like that, which is measurable at the outlet.
So you install the system and then you can test

(53:07):
it with an animometer, which basically measures wind speed at
the outlet. And that's quite interesting to do as well.
And I've even done it sort of slightly more ad
hoc than that, where I bought some smoke matches the
other day, so specifically designed for testing airflow or for
looking for drafts and that sort of thing. So installed

(53:27):
some extraction lit the smoke match where the extraction is
designed to start sucking from and then see if it
comes out my vent at the other side. Oh okay, yeah,
so there are ways of testing it. You know, this
stuff is science, right, you know. And so people tend

(53:48):
to install extraction and they crush it and they send
it through some sort of Gandalf's Quest for Middle Earth
or something like that goes up and down and around
and back, and they squish it a little bit and
then they poke it outside and hope that air actually
gets out of the end. That's not how extrac works, right,
you know, straight runs, smooth runs, that's what's going to

(54:10):
give you a really good result.

Speaker 7 (54:12):
So I just want to step back. It doesn't have
to be a range should It can just be a
fan to get the area out of there.

Speaker 5 (54:18):
In terms of compliance with the Healthy Home regulation. Yeah,
you're right, it just needs to be extraction from that space.
Doesn't have to be a range hood.

Speaker 7 (54:28):
Okay, all right, hopefully that helps.

Speaker 6 (54:31):
I think.

Speaker 7 (54:32):
Okay, great, all.

Speaker 5 (54:34):
The very best. You might take care of you and
Newstalk ce B. If you've got a question of a building,
Nature will take your calls. Eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty is that number to call, feel through, to text
them through as well, quick text before the break. We've
got a nineteen eighties house with a steep concrete tile roof.
We're going to improve the insallation. I wonder if it's

(54:55):
a good idea to put some sort of barrier behind
the concrete tiles right now. If they leaked, the water
would go onto the insulation. In terms of code compl
clients the like. If it's a steep concrete tile roof,
even today, it doesn't require a membrane underneath it. So
concrete roofs over I think it's fifteen degrees don't have

(55:18):
a requirement for a vapor barrier or a roofing underlay
at all. Would there be an advantage to putting one on, Yes,
there probably is, But in order to do that, you'd
need to take the tiles off as well as taking
the batons off in order to have a continuous layer
of a roofing underlay, and chances are you not going
to do that. Is there an advantage to going in

(55:40):
and stapling it to the underside of the batons that
support the roof, Yes, you can do it. It's it
will give you a benefit, but of course there will
still be gaps and so on, and water might it's
actually going to be very little water that's underneath those
roof tiles. There are more extensive remedial situation remedial of

(56:06):
this is that you can do as well in terms of,
you know, taking all of that off, maybe sheathing the
roof and then putting the concrete tiles back on. We
can discuss that as well. If you want to give
me a call, oh eight hundred and eighty teen eighty
back after the break with Howard.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
Whether you're paty with ceiling, fixing with fits or wondering
how to fix that hole in the wall, give Peter
wolf Caper call on.

Speaker 4 (56:26):
Eighty the resident builder on Youth dogs'd be you and
New Talks.

Speaker 5 (56:30):
It'd be coming up twenty four minutes after seven and
Howard talk to me about your roof.

Speaker 9 (56:37):
Oh look, just a quickie. You'll have to give me
the first part of the show. But just listening to
you're talking about with it lining paper in the older
expior sheds and garages. I've got one of those wonderful
probably built late eighties early nineties metal double garages, and
the lining paper on the roof is literally to the
point of disintegration. It's one of the ones, you know,

(56:58):
the old yellow strings of trying to.

Speaker 4 (57:00):
Hold it.

Speaker 9 (57:02):
Wine. Yeah, the query is really the only way either
the scene of doing it is to completely remove the
roof and try and do the runs again. Is it
actually essential to even have in there? Or am I
making myself a monster job? Apologize if you've already covered this.

Speaker 4 (57:17):
No, no, no.

Speaker 5 (57:17):
I think it's a really good question. And it is
a little bit unusual to see roofing underlay decay in
an enclosed space, like it's not uncommon to see it.
Let's say, you know, with an exposed car port, right
roofing underlays, particularly older ones. I think that new roofing underlays,
if you look at the technology that goes into their manufacture,

(57:39):
probably will be more durable, and in fact, you might
be able to find a very specific type of roofing
underlay that's designed for exposure, let's say. But in terms
of the usefulness of it, yes, it does make a
significant difference to have roofing underlay under metal roofing. So
typically what happens is you will get condensation underneath, you know,

(58:03):
whether it's any type of long run that sort of thing,
no matter what the profile, and realistically almost no matter
what the pitch is. And so the idea of the
roofing underlay is that it collects that condensation that can
form on the underside of the iron and it directs
it down. So the roofing underlay should extend out over

(58:26):
the facierboard, and ideally it should hang out just far
enough so that it drops any condensate into the spouting.
You know, if it doesn't quite get to the spouting,
at least it's getting outside of the building envelope. So
in urine instance, I mean, look, the best practice would

(58:46):
be take the roof off, replace the roofing underlay, put
the roof back on. And if it's a small garage,
and if the roof, you know, if the fixings with
screws right, I'd say that would be what I would do,
is back the screw out, take the sheet off, put
the building paper on. You could carefully work your way
across the roof in sections, running you know, from the

(59:07):
ridge line down to the gutter line, that sort of thing.
If it's nails, it's a little trickier because you can
potentially cause damage to the roofing iron when you take
the nails out, but still durable and again a garage,
you know, low risk, probably not terribly high, all of
those sorts of things. You could probably safely manage all

(59:28):
of the risks there and replace the roofing paper. But yes,
it is doing something. I speak in a sense from
personal experience. My shed is quite old, nineteen fifties. It's
got a very flat roof, it's got corrugated on it.
In winter, my workbench is just it looks like it's
been raining. Right, So because I no one ever put
roofing underlay in there, I've delayed doing it because I

(59:51):
keep thinking I'm going to build myself a brand new garage,
but I haven't got round to that. So but yeah,
roofing paper makes a big difference.

Speaker 9 (59:59):
Actually make that that's fine. Not so it's probably been
up there fifty years at least. I don't not sure
how it's supposed to last. And there's also in central
of targets is huge.

Speaker 6 (01:00:10):
That go with it.

Speaker 9 (01:00:10):
But yeah, it sounds like the logical thing to do
is really bite the bullet section bisection. And obviously the
paper's always run horizontally sort of overlap in from the top.

Speaker 5 (01:00:22):
I mean, if if, for example, let's say it's safer
for you to take a couple of sheets off and
then replace the building paper, then run it from top
to bottom, let's say, and just make sure that you've
got a hunt at least one hundred and fifty. Or
you could get a roofing underlay that allows you to
put a tape over it, in which case you do
the lap and then tape the join so you don't

(01:00:43):
get water that tracks underneath on its way down.

Speaker 9 (01:00:46):
Right, So it's not not essential as to whether or
not you run it sort of horizontal or vertical.

Speaker 5 (01:00:51):
Well, horizontal across the sheet allows for the lap to
ensure that water doesn't track. You know, water is not
going to go uphill right in most instances. But theoretically,
if water is traveling down the sheet and all you've
got is a lap, it could get underneath the sheet
and still drop into the building. So and that's but look,
you see plenty of reroofs where they're going vertically, let's say,

(01:01:14):
and just I would just make that lap a little
bit bigger.

Speaker 9 (01:01:17):
Now, hey, that's fantastic pleasure. That's fine. I think I
need to make make sure it wait till it's not
a wendy day and get up there and get cracking,
but really appreciate you squeezing me in this morning.

Speaker 5 (01:01:25):
Takes pleasure all the very besty. How I take care
of your news stalk ceed be open line, well, actually
open line on any questions that you would like to
put to the minister. So I'm going to take short break.
We're going to bring the Minister for Building and Construction,
Chris Pink into the studio. I'm going to have a
bit of a chat with him. I've already got a
long list of questions. If you've got any specific questions

(01:01:47):
about a large number of proposals that are out there
around regulation, self certification, granny flats, changes to h one,
all of these things we can talk about. We're going
to take short break. After the break, the Minister Chris
Pink will join me in the studio.

Speaker 4 (01:02:04):
Squeaky door, more squeaky floor.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
Get the right advice from Peter Wolfcare, the resident builder
on News TALKSB.

Speaker 5 (01:02:12):
I do radio so News Talk SB and this morning
on the program a little bit of a diversion from
what we would normally do in the sense that it
is it's actually genuinely my great pleasure to welcome into
the studio the Minister for Building and Construction, Chris Pink
Welcome and thank you very much for joining us well
in Pepe.

Speaker 10 (01:02:31):
Thanks very much into all your listeners. I've delighted to
be here with the Oracles now.

Speaker 5 (01:02:35):
Yes, look it's a massive portfolio. I know we've had
a chance to chat at various events and that sort
of thing, but you know now that we're what not
quite two years, eighteen months sort of thing feed under
the desk in general, how are you finding the role,
what's your engagement with the sector? Just some general comments.

Speaker 10 (01:02:57):
Yeah, well I really love the role. I think building
a construction is so important and of course the usual
stats to real off go to the number of people
employed contribution to GDP and everyone understands that their importance,
but particularly actually in a time where people have been
doing it really tough in the sector. Sure, but if
you start thinking about the impact that this has on
people's lives, you know, to have good quality, affordable sustainable

(01:03:21):
homes and the implications for kiwis and families and their
ability to live well in a community. It's just really
quite a big pressure and responsibility at a straight pleasure too,
but you realize how stakes, how high the stakes are
when you start thinking about all that in the big picture.

Speaker 5 (01:03:36):
Yeah, and I think sort of, you know, part of
I suppose what drives me in a sense is that
you're right. Housing is it the key to almost everything
you know, housing stability, housing affordability, housing quality, quality in
terms of its impact on health and so on. So
already we've got a couple of texts coming in on

(01:03:56):
things like healthy home, someone calling it a wrought will.
We'll deal with that in the moment. What I'd like
to do is just go through I guess a couple
of things that have been key innouncements in terms of
changes that the ministry that you've proposed. So probably the
one that got the most headlines a little while ago
is hey, H one might have been too much. So

(01:04:18):
there's been a lot of consultation. I've been really really
impressed at the level of dialogue, like the public discourse
and the discussion around you know, the proposal was, or
the comment I think that you made was, hey, look,
we've been told that we can say fifty thousand dollars
off the cost of a new build if we step
back from H one. Changes that came in in November
of twenty twenty three, there's been some consultation. Where are

(01:04:42):
we at with that particular issue right now?

Speaker 10 (01:04:44):
Yeah, well, I think we're quite close to being able
to land something in that space. And I say we
it's actually technically it's mb Ministry of Building, Innovation, Employment,
which is the relevant government agency in the Chief Executive
is the person who in that legislation actually gets to
make the course. So it's not me, but certainly I
made my view quite clear early on, having heard from
a large number of builders that huge amount of additional

(01:05:06):
cost was being added. But nevertheless, hearing as part of
that great dialogue that you've mentioned that actually it shouldn't
be the case that there's such a large amount of
extra cost, I thought, well, we've got to get to
the bottom of this, and I think we're pretty close,
as in literally within a few weeks, maybe a couple
of months from having an answer to that. And like
I say, it's not for me to decide, but it
does seem to me that if we can end up

(01:05:27):
with a more nuanced calculation, and actually the methods that
are known as calculation and modeling already sit within that
that chapter of the code will probably be more appropriate
than what's currently there around well, what's known as the
schedule method, where it's very prescriptive. So if I had
to make an educated guest, I say, would probably end
up with more of the calculation modeling and less of

(01:05:47):
that prescriptive blunt instrument where by people end up adding
you know, literally extra layers, including in parts of MW
Zealand where that's not needed.

Speaker 4 (01:05:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:05:55):
Okay, So will, again making an educated guess, will the
schedule method remain or I wouldn't bet on it. I
would put my hand up and say we should just
get rid of it, right, might well be the outcome? Okay,
all right, that's pretty cool, actually, Okay. The other big
challenge that you seem to have identified is the whole

(01:06:15):
consenting process, how long it takes to get a building
consent through the complexity, the seemingly disjointedness between various territorial authorities.
So territorial authorities typically act as a building consent authority,
but they are now no longer the only ones, so
we're seeing some movement in that space. I think you've

(01:06:37):
been quite strong in terms of saying to councils it's
taking too long. Have you had pushback from councils.

Speaker 10 (01:06:43):
Well, I suppose I have. I've had discussions the whole
way through with councils and also with the building officials
Institute news. Yes, and they say to me, oh, well,
you've got to be careful, Chris, because actually the reason
that it takes a long time is because we've got
a lot of onerous requirements on us, including the accreditation
they have every couple of years, the joint in several liability,

(01:07:06):
which is to say that you know that the sort
of democrat hangs over them if something goes wrong with
an individual building or of course heaven forbid at a
system level, you know, and cert reference to leaky holmes here,
then you know, then that's on us in our rate pays.
And of course they're absolutely right, and it's never been
my position that we need to be critical in a
way that's unfair when when it is taking too long

(01:07:28):
for people to get consents and there are inconsistencies, that's
a matter of saying, well, look there's a problem here.
It's not about sort of ascribing blame except to say
that the system needs to be reformed. So when we
have that discussion, it's all very you know, we're in
violent agreement. Really, I think everyone does need to change.
We can probably do things better, and there's a couple
of ways we can look at doing that, which happy

(01:07:48):
to get into if you want to on the Sharlot
terms to where that liability sits.

Speaker 9 (01:07:51):
For us Dart.

Speaker 4 (01:07:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:07:52):
Look, I think that is a really really important discussion
because it seems to be at the nub of the problem. Right. So,
as a ratepayer, as a rate payer in Auckland, right,
and we know that Auckland Council has paid out hundreds
of millions, possibly billions of dollars in claims for leaky
buildings because their last man standing to use commpilance. So
as a ratepayer, I want my counsel to be super

(01:08:14):
super cautious around processing building consents. As someone who might
submit a building consent and wants to start building, I
want them to do it in twenty days. Right. So
one of the things that I think has come out
of this is you've asked them to provide data as
to how long it takes to process a consent. Again,
the response from councils have they seen that as sort

(01:08:35):
of unnecessary interference or welcome?

Speaker 10 (01:08:38):
No, they've really welcome to. Honestly, it's been really heartening
and in fact, just going back to your original question
about how I've found the role, I've been really impressed
and grateful how engaging everyone has been, including from the coussels.
And you know, often I will say things like, you know,
in the public domain or in a small meeting format,
that I'd be really keen to know how we can
have the resources of the system better applied to those

(01:09:01):
that actually need more scrutiny, you know, that sort of
self certification of idea, and councilors will often volunteer to me, Oh,
we're doing a version of that already, we've got a
trusted partner program, or you know, this is how we
sort of differentiate. So actually, some of them are already
doing the great job. And I think if we can
take the lessons from the ones that are genuinely doing
really well in all those kinds of ways and apply

(01:09:22):
them across the board, then we'll have the opportunity to
learn from best practice, but also you know, remove that
in consistency where people are looking to build across the
country and getting frustrated because the rules seem to differ,
or rather the interpretation of the rules seems to differ
according to which side of a council boundary they happen
to be building.

Speaker 5 (01:09:39):
Up, because in the end there's only one building code exactly.

Speaker 10 (01:09:42):
You're always saying, of course, you're right.

Speaker 5 (01:09:43):
Yeah, yeah, okay, just on the consenting because I think,
you know, to be fair to councils again, I would
imagine that some of what they get in terms of
building consent submissions are actually of poor quality, and it's
not surprising that they have to ask rofis do you
see any role for AI in this, Like, you know,

(01:10:05):
one of the things that's been talked about as a
central portal for all building consents to be lodged, would
there be a role for AI to sort of scan
consents and find those defects?

Speaker 10 (01:10:16):
Yeah, I think quite possibly. I think I would be
nervous at this stage mid twenty twenty five, but who knows.
In a few years even from now, maybe that will
change about a system where we relied so heavily on
technology that we were approving on the basis only of AI.
Now you might have listeners right now who think I'm
naiven and that actually that technology as possible or ready

(01:10:38):
to rely upon. Sure, but I think soon that you
could do it. In the negative, you could certainly have
triaging by way of AI where it was identified that
there was a shortfall. And actually, anecdotally at least often
counselors will say to me or the reason that we
reject an application or ask for more information is because
some of it's just lacking, not even that they're proposing
something that's not in accordance with the building Code, it's

(01:10:59):
just not there. And if that could be done on
day one, not day nineteen or twenty of an application
being made, if one will be better off. And of
course then the piece that goes alongside that is that
we've also need to have, you know, due regard to
the consequences for people who do you know, submit poor
quality applications, because of course that's not doing any favors

(01:11:21):
to the rest of the sector who are patiently waiting
for their own application to be seen, and of course
again not fair on council to be used as a
first resort quality assurance. It should be, you know, it
should be a final check, you know, with all the
care intention having been applied to the question before that time.

Speaker 5 (01:11:37):
Okay, So, as a as a builder, I've got my
building consent, I'm underway with the construction, I ring counsel
to book and inspection, and it varies from week to week,
months to month, year to year. A little while ago,
you could be waiting three weeks for a building inspection.
One of the announcements that you made was that we
want to see remote inspections as the default.

Speaker 10 (01:12:00):
Is that still your thinking, Well, we've consulted on the
basis that it does take too long in many cases,
and certainly it's quite variable the amount of time that
it takes for people to get it an inspection, So
that was always the aim. It seemed to me that
with some councils using remote visual inspections really well and
quite prominently within their systems, but others not at all,

(01:12:23):
that seemed to me an obvious opportunity to lift the
game across the board. However, having consulted on that and
heard that it would be complicated and are necessarily prescriptive
to say these are the ones that you must have
as in person physical and other ones can be so
where they have a default, and then start thinking about

(01:12:44):
when you enable the presumption to be the other way,
which is you know when you do have to have
it in person, it did start to feel a bit
more complicated, and of course the aim of the game
is to make things easier, not harder. So the idea
is now. And having risten now to all the councils
that act as building content authorities, I've said, look, we
do expect that you have the facility to provide remote

(01:13:05):
visual inspections, but in the meantime, we don't care how
you do it, as long as eighty percent of your
inspections are conducted within a three working day timeframe of
that request, So being the timeliness not the methodology, and say, well,
if we're interested in the end not the means, then
use that tool, but do it as you feel free,
as you wish.

Speaker 5 (01:13:24):
Okay, which seems like a slightly more nuanced and more
practical solution, doesn't it.

Speaker 10 (01:13:28):
So, and again grateful for the feedback that that was
along those lines. So we heard that and have gone
with the timeframe as opposed to the specific methodology.

Speaker 5 (01:13:36):
Okay. So again, I'm a builder, I've got my building consent,
I've answered all the RFIs, I'm ready for the building inspection.
But in fact, if I'm a trusted builder working on
simple buildings I might be able to opt into self certification.
Can you explain how self certification might work?

Speaker 10 (01:13:52):
Yeah, So self certification is pretty much what it sounds like,
which is to say, you can say you can certify
that your work meets the building code or any other
relevant standards. And at the moment we've got electras and
gas fitters who are able to do exactly that plumbers
and train layers meanwhile can't. Although we've announced that we're
changing that, so that legislation has been drafted as we

(01:14:14):
speak that will come through you know, if not this
year then certainly ahead of the next selection. And then
in relation to builders, well, there's already a distinction of
course between licensed building practitioners who can do restricted building
work and you know anyone who's who's not not being
able to at least not without the supervision and ultimately
the sign off. So I've got an element of that already.

(01:14:36):
But in terms of self certifying whole buildings or developments
even at a time, what we've said there is that
we will identify building entities, you know, companies or in
the franchise model, by the way, as a bit of
a challenge when you start thinking about group home boorders, right,
we can come back to that if you want sure. Overall,
the philosophy is that for those that are doing a

(01:14:57):
large scale of work, have got a good track record
in terms of quality, you know, lack of complaints in
difficult in terms of the week that they've already produced,
got good quality assurances systems in place, would have a
method by which a customer could say, you know, there's
been a defect or a problem and it there'd be
a way to have that resolved. And of course they'd

(01:15:19):
have adequate means which is basically deep enough pockets that
if there is a problem that they could come to
the party and not leave a shortfall for the poor
homeowner in the same way that councils currently do. Then
if all those planets align and subject to ongoing you know,
order in quality assurance in terms of their ability to
provide that, then we think that's the right place to

(01:15:41):
allow them to get on and build the extra hundreds
and or even thousands of homes New Zealand that are
currently treated in the same way single level of blanket
oversight which we've currently gotten that seems to me not
the way to get better productivity.

Speaker 5 (01:15:58):
I mean, to be fair, it sounds like what looked
like something that would encompass a lot of building in fact,
will only encompass a very small number of buildings. Because
you know, I actually did some reading about this during
the course of the week. So you know, large building
companies doing numerous simple buildings. So what's your definition or

(01:16:21):
what do you see as a simple building?

Speaker 10 (01:16:23):
Yeah? Well, again, the devil is always in the detail,
isn't it.

Speaker 5 (01:16:26):
Absolutely.

Speaker 10 (01:16:26):
It's really funny having these conversations because if you want
to bring people along with you, and you want to
help or give people an opportunity to help and contribute
by saying this is what it should look like, then
you have to state the idea and principle and then
get into the detail as you go along. But of course,
the minute you talk about even the principle of it,
people say, oh, yes, but what about the details. So
I'm really grateful that we do have these conversations, but

(01:16:46):
in terms of a simple building. And as you'll be aware,
and your listeners too, if they're regulars on't tuning into
your show as they should be, even on a Mother's Day,
by the way, then they'll know that zis three six
er four, you know, sets out the standards. It's currently
being updated, so watch the space. But you know, if
you can imagine starting with that kind of simple timber

(01:17:08):
building and no reason by the way, it couldn't be
expanded into other building types and materials as could safely
be done, then you know there'd be a starting point.
And of course it'll be possible to say, oh, but
what about these other ones. They should also be regarded
as safe for self certification, and that may be true,
but I'd rather be conservative initially in terms of what's

(01:17:29):
allowed and who's allowed to do self certification, and if
it goes well, then think about expanding it. But I
think it'll be a major win. Even if it's let's say,
three thousand new homes a year, which you know, if
that's ten thousand, excuse me, ten percent of the thirty
thousand building consents currently being issued annually. That's not nothing.
It's not a silver bullet, but it's not nothing, and

(01:17:50):
it's a good place to start if we were then
to be comfortable to expand the program from there.

Speaker 5 (01:17:54):
We didn't take a break, but I'd like to focus
on consumer protection, right so there is a surety I
think in most people's minds about the fact that if
I bought something that's brand new, I've had account inspector
look at it. If we're taking the council inspector out
of the picture, how do I know that I'm going
to get a good house. So we'll come back and
talk about that in a moment. My guess this morning

(01:18:14):
in the studio is Chris Pink, the Minister for Building
and Construction. It's coming up ten minutes away from.

Speaker 1 (01:18:20):
A freak helping you get those DIY projects done right.
The resident builder with Beata Wolfcat call oh eight hund
Youth Talk ZV.

Speaker 5 (01:18:31):
Chris Pink is with me in the studio and we're
talking all things building and construction. And I think just
during the break we were talking about you know, like
you can have top line comments self certification, but then
underneath it the detail becomes mind boggling, mind bendingly complex
within a really short period of time. But it's really

(01:18:51):
important because you know, we both agree that what we
want for people is quality housing that's not going to
basically fail in the future and ruin people's lives. And
we've seen that with leaky building it and so on.
Just in terms of So we talked a little bit
about self certification, who might be involved. Actually, I want

(01:19:11):
to throw in something else which is currently within the
license building practitioner scheme. I like the fact that you're
introducing a waterproofing class. I think that's really really going
to be important because that was kind of a big
hole in this scheme right now that you know who
was going to it's restricted building. Yeah quite literally, so
it's restricted building work, but sort of I would take

(01:19:32):
responsibility for it as an LBP building or it just
felt like there was a gap in the system. So
we're going to plug that gap again, terrible pun. The
other thing is that right now, in terms of building licensing,
there's just one level of license, right so I'm an
LBP building, that's it. Would you consider introducing levels of

(01:19:58):
license for building in the same way that there are
levels of license in the site license, so you can
be site license one, two, or three, reflecting experience and
the scope of work that you can administer. And I
guess where I'm getting with that is that you know,
if we're talking about sales certification or remote inspections, that
one of the ways to qualify for either of those
things is to be an LBP two or three that

(01:20:22):
you could go back and prove your competency, because to
be blunt, you know, you could go out and I'd
like to think that I'm a better builder than others.
That to be really really honest, then another person who
might just have qualified that, someone who's been in the
game for a long time, who's got quite a lot
of responsibility, is that would that be up for grabs,
very much up.

Speaker 10 (01:20:42):
For grabs and very happy to consider it. And I'm
considering it in the sense that it gets raised with
me reasonably frequently, and I've heard you talk about it
before as well. Sure it sounds to me like it
makes a lot of sense, because it's very much that
philosophy of you know, having a better skilled and qualified
cohort builders and within that recognizing those that we can have,
you know, you know, fewer resources applied to And I

(01:21:04):
think if I just take a moment to sort of
explain if I may, in my mind, it's not about
having lower standards of checking. It's actually saying, well, if
council has only got a certain amount of resource, and
realistically they do no such thing as an infinite resource
of time or rate pay of funds to work these
things out. Then we actually want that applied you know

(01:21:24):
where it's most needed, which is, you know, those who
are less experienced or qualified or frankly competent. And so yeah,
I mean I can see a differentiation within the LBP
along those lines, but it's not something that I'm well
enough advanced to my own thinking to be able to
say to you that will happen anytime soon just because
we've but not so much.

Speaker 5 (01:21:42):
There's just probably other priorities. Let's talk just briefly if
we can around joint and several liability. So my take
on it is that because counsels often end up being
the only person responsible for building defects, they have got
to be risk averse. So could we see a change
perhaps from joint and several liability to proportional liability, so

(01:22:04):
that council, you know, if rather than having a million
dollar bill for a defective building, they will have a
portion of that and liability will be assigned to others.
But then how do you chase those people as well?

Speaker 2 (01:22:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (01:22:17):
Really well, and I think that is the right question
to chase those.

Speaker 5 (01:22:21):
Tell you what one thing that I haven't learned in
eleven years. Is how to tell the time we're going
to take a break, because we've got the news.

Speaker 1 (01:22:29):
Met twice god once, but maybe called Pete first bid
your wolf Camp the resident builder.

Speaker 4 (01:22:34):
News talk said be you, and his talk said be Pete.

Speaker 5 (01:22:37):
Wolf Camp the resident builder with you Today is always
on a Sunday, today, particularly special Sunday because of course
it's Mother's Day. And I really appreciate the fact, Chris
that you've come in on Mother's Day as well. I
hope that's all going to be okay at home, but
it always gets a bit tricky.

Speaker 2 (01:22:53):
Ah.

Speaker 10 (01:22:54):
Yeah, so's breakfast and beds and probably on one across
Auckland as we speak. So I'll dash back once we've
done and see what we can do about them.

Speaker 5 (01:23:02):
Yeah, I really appreciate you coming in. So we've had
a fairly extensive discussion around h one, around consenting, around
bcas I do want to try and talk about joint
and several liability and what might change. The other thing
is in terms of insurance for construction work, because I
guess ultimately what we should all be most concerned about
is we want quality buildings. We also want quality buildings

(01:23:24):
so that a homeowner doesn't end up in a defective
building and possibly not being able to get redress. Into
the future, will we see a bigger role for insurance
in terms of providing the remediation in the future when
things go wrong? Yeah, I think what's the tool? What
beaver can you pull down?

Speaker 10 (01:23:44):
I mean, there a number of different levers, And of
course you're right, the starting point has to be consumer
protection because we want people to be confident that's such
a large asset for them, and it is an asset
as well as houses, a home and the words of
the jingles, Sure, and all those kind of important considerations,
but we know that with so much at stake, we
can't have people who aren't as expert as yourself and

(01:24:06):
probably most of your listeners and are vulnerable. So if
we think about how we can provide that and insurance
with a capital I obviously is one of them. And
I've had a conversation with a few of the insurers
and the insurance council. They have the same questions, but
frankly as the rest of us do in terms of
their level of comfort about whether there are sufficiently high
standards among the building practitioners, you know, the tradees and

(01:24:30):
designers even up front that they won't be liable for
an avalanche of claims, and of course they're not going
to be interested for commercial reasons and getting into that
space any more than the rest of us are happy
with that from a government outcome point of view, or
for that matter, councils facing that liability that they do currently.
And of course the point about council being last person
standing and therefore having up to one hundred percent of

(01:24:53):
the cost of a defect is that, yes, as we've
discussed the risk averse, but also that's letting off the
hook those that have actually done the work in a
poor manner. So maybe you know, maybe there's a different
and way we could talk about self certification. And it's
probably on me that I haven't necessarily done this well
enough so far. But the point is actually placing liability

(01:25:15):
where it belongs on the personal persons just to be
a bit lawyery from them and who have actually done
the work that's led everyone down. So it's an exercise
in sheeting home responsibility. So really a double edge sword
for those who would be self certified. Are you that
confident you're going to stand behind your work that if
it's cocked up that you're going to be the one
who has to meet that shortfall. So you know, that's

(01:25:38):
why we have a system not only in working backwards
from the fact that if there is a problem, we
want to have it being able to be resolved without
recourse to the right path, but also it makes it
less likely in the first place that you have those problems,
because at the moment it seems to me there's an
element of all care and a responsibility where a designer
or a building trades person will submit their work and

(01:25:59):
if it's not right, don't worry about it because the
council will pick it up. No, you have to pay
a bit more attention to that if it's all on
your head or in your bank balances. Self certify, so
insurance are interested, but they are nervous. And if there
isn't a private insurance silver bullet in the market, and
at the moment it doesn't seem to me that there is,
then the other ways of insuring or assuring the quality

(01:26:22):
will have to sit elsewhere. And yes, we've talked about
a few self safeguards to reduce the possibility that there's
a problem in the first place, but also if you
think about, you know, the possibility of a fidelity fund,
whereby you could have particular cases where a person might
engage a building practitioner. Maybe in the instance of fraud,
maybe there was a reason that they had not to

(01:26:44):
know that, you know, as a reasonably prudent consumer, having
done your due diligence, if they're still left short by
some really bad behavior, then maybe there's a case for
stumping up at a broader level, you know, and with
the building Levy Fund for example, that's currently paid into
at the moment, could potentially be paid into that. And
I'm just you know, stating these possibilities as opposed to

(01:27:05):
announcing policy live on air that hasn't yet been signed
off by the government. But I want to be creative
about how we can provide the assurance without sacrificing the
outcomes that we want in terms of timeliness and therefore cost.

Speaker 5 (01:27:16):
Because every now and then, if you follow the courts
and the court rulings, you'll find that, you know, a
homeowner has been awarded you know, nine hundred thousand dollars
from a build array or developer Bee and so on,
But do they ever get that money?

Speaker 10 (01:27:31):
Well, I mean you have to ask laws more so
than the builders or if you ask the consumers and
the homeowners. But we've all seen the news items and
really heartbreaking when you see absolute a young couple, not
necessarily young of course, or whatever the circumstances are that
I've been left out of pocket, you know, buy some
pretty poor behavior, if not invariably as well poor workmanship.
But there's also opportunities. Maybe I can you know, not

(01:27:55):
not too glibally, but put that scenario aside for a
moment and say there's also a large category of buildings
for which that is not going to be the case
because the person doing the development or you know, the
contracting the builders to do the work, actually will continue
to own it. If you think about retirement villages, for example,
the model that they operate on with those licenses to occupy.
If there's a problem, they're still the owner. They're still

(01:28:17):
going to be on them to have to sort that out. Likewise, government,
you know, huge procure of building works, be it classrooms
in the education portfolio, social housing and so on. Why
they're running off to their local council on every single
occasion is you know, well, let's just say it's not
necessarily the right model given that, you know, if they
could be trusted more to get on and do the

(01:28:40):
work and hold accountable via contracts that people are doing
the work, then that'll free up with the resources of
the system. Of course for people who you know, just
go and knock on the door and want their own
private commercial work done in what we always think of
the ordinary way of things. I should decaid by the way,
I'm sorry, I pause for breath. I promise you. I
know you want to get to your text. But in

(01:29:00):
terms of social housing, which I have just referred to,
in fact, of course that is a special case where
you can see which is the private or rather the public.
But Bespoke Building Content Authority does that with it's linked
with KO only at the moment, as opposed to other
government works. So you know there is a model there
where we could contemplate doing things differently.

Speaker 5 (01:29:21):
Just on the consenting. Then there is now the re
emergence of private certifiers. I think I saw one article
A company full Sight, I think it is out of Wellington,
will be able to act as a BCA and undertake
inspections and issue a code of compliance. We had that
a few years ago as soon as things got rough,
they all went to the wall. What's going to be

(01:29:43):
different this time around?

Speaker 10 (01:29:44):
Well, actually nothing in the sense the applications that are
in currently and I think there are a couple don't
reflect any changes that have been made under my watch.
We've got a couple of outfits that are applying to
be private building content authorities, you know, standing in issues
or in place of what work is currently done by councils,

(01:30:05):
and they're either me those thresholds, including adequate means, which
is that they've got enough resources.

Speaker 5 (01:30:10):
If there's a.

Speaker 10 (01:30:11):
Large scale problem, they'll either meet those or they won't
on the existing criteria. That's nothing to do with any
changes I've made. Personally, I think it would be good
in theory to have such options available because that will
take a bit of pressure off councils and it will
allow those who want to make an application in that
direction to you know, maybe provide a bit of a

(01:30:31):
pressure Valven and dare I say, potentially some composite some
competition too.

Speaker 5 (01:30:35):
Okay, let's jump into granny flats, so potentially up to
seventy square meters not necessarily requiring a building consent. I
talked about this sort of presentation yesterday, a couple of
hands went up in the audience, going, if it doesn't
have a building consent, would insurers ensure it?

Speaker 10 (01:30:54):
Well, I live in a house that doesn't have building consent.
It was built ninety nine years ago, and you know,
I don't know if someone came along with a clipboard
at some point, or if there was a chicken and
egg scenario where the bank was have to lend to
me on it, and therefore the insurer was happy to
provide insurance because of course you can't get.

Speaker 5 (01:31:13):
The lending if not insured.

Speaker 10 (01:31:14):
Yeah, but there are lots of good quality buildings that
pre date the existing regime. And actually I'd wager that
a lot of buildings around Auckland where we are now
and across the country prior to the new regime will
last a lot longer than those that have been consented
and signed off and insured within a more recent period
of time with the last couple of building acts. So
short answer, yes, of course, is insurance available, but you

(01:31:36):
know the insurance themselves will make that decision.

Speaker 5 (01:31:38):
I hear what you're saying. I'm in a nineteen oh
five villa, so I get that, But I just wonder
for a new build that arrives on site and doesn't
have a building consent and you know there's a whole
lot of stuff in there around how are you going
to ensure quality of council step away.

Speaker 10 (01:31:58):
Yeah, well the answer is we'll have it done by
people who we regard as worthy of the trust. And
I know some people will say, well, you know you
shouldn't be able to rely on that, or you know
you shouldn't rely on that in fact, but you know
that's the calculation we made because I think it's worth
you know, noting at the outset. You know, the problem
we've got to solve here is that building costs increase

(01:32:19):
by more than forty percent between twenty nineteen and twenty
twenty three. It's just simply unaffordable. And if you've got
something relatively low risk as a structure, and granny flats
we are talking low risk by definition and yes TBA
in terms of the detail, but we're getting there. We're
very very very close by the way till that being
in the public domain. And if you think about an
extra mitigation in terms of level entry showers that are

(01:32:42):
likely to be a feature of granny flats and therefore
giving rise to that new waterproofing class of licensed building practitioner. Well,
if you say, well, if you make all those mitigations,
then you're not going to be any worse off than
you currently are. Then it's a thing that we should
do because a minor residential unit on an existing parth
out of land that's already got a major dwelling and
therefore with the infrastructure that's happened to, we're going to

(01:33:03):
save a lot of cost. We're going to increase the
housing supply. Of course, getting back to what we need
to do, that's the thing we need to achieve.

Speaker 5 (01:33:11):
Will there be any right to object? Like if my
neighbor suddenly starts framing up in the backyard and I think,
as I don't necessarily want that there, obviously they don't
need a resource consent, they don't need a building consent,
Is there any grounds to object?

Speaker 2 (01:33:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (01:33:23):
I mean technically that's the resource management side rather than
building management. So I'm sure I'm probably not fay enough
with the rules on the other side to be really
clear on that, but I mean it's worth noting. And
I can tell you this as a local MP and
also having been a lawyer previous there's all kinds of
disputes currently where people put up something they're not meant
to in the shore and then the neighboring yards. And

(01:33:46):
I don't think there's anything new under the sun as
far as that goes.

Speaker 5 (01:33:49):
Yeah, okay, Yeah, we're going to take a short break
and then we're going to come back and finally get
round to some texts because to be fair, I've got
a whole heap more questions as well. But let's take
a short break back in.

Speaker 1 (01:34:01):
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Speaker 5 (01:34:10):
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You d U kitchens that do it for you. You
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I promised that we would get to some techs, so
we really really should do that. This is a great
one from Craig, who's a fairly regular contributed to the show,
and I love his comments. Morning, Chris and Pete. With
the consent exemptions, let's say for Granny Platz what happens

(01:35:34):
in regards to foundations and engineering for foundations. So typically
if you're doing a new build now you need to
have the ground surveyed to ensure that it will bear
the building on top of it. Is that still going
to be a requirement.

Speaker 10 (01:35:47):
Yeah, I don't want to put Craig wrong, so I'm
not going to come flip a coin on whether that's
the yes or no. But soonly I can tell you
that with the legislation nearly ready to hit the streets,
and then once that's past, MB will put out good
guidance on their website to maybe go through some of
those line ball cases. And I noted, I think maybe
last week, but any recently, you had a question coming

(01:36:08):
around wood burners as opposed to other heating appliants grany flats,
and I was able to look that up. It seems
to me that that's likely to be. You know, that
would be outside the definition of a simple building such
that you wouldn't need a consent. So I can imagine
a scenario, for example, hypothetically, because the legislation doesn't yet
exist publicly, that you know, the building itself, the grainy

(01:36:28):
flat itself wouldn't need the consent, but to install a
wood burner, that element alone would need.

Speaker 5 (01:36:33):
To and that essentially makes it more high risk, isn't it.

Speaker 10 (01:36:36):
So that's right.

Speaker 5 (01:36:37):
The intent of the legislation seems to be what is
relatively low risk, So it's only going to be single story.
It's going to be located far enough from boundaries that
if it did fall over, it's not going to fall
onto your neighbor's property. I think it's really important to
emphasize the fact it can't be connected to an existing building, correct, Yeah, okay, yes, sir,
I am curious. Then the discussion thus far is around

(01:37:00):
the use of lightweight materials, so timber framing, steel framing.
So you can't do a block wall, for example, can
you do a concrete slab?

Speaker 10 (01:37:10):
I don't want to, Okay, I think I don't want Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:37:13):
Sorry, Now someone's ticked through and they went, can you
tell the minister exclamation mark when this healthy homes rought's
going to be over? My wonderful house built in twenty
eighteen failed recently. The email was followed up by a
quote for five grand to do the upgrades and repairs.
It's a con Now, I suspect that you might have
some truth to this. Problems incurred leaves in the gutter, okay,

(01:37:36):
insulation had compressed slightly and the heating was not enough.

Speaker 10 (01:37:40):
Your response, Oh god, yeah, I mean healthy homes. It's
probably a subject for another whole discussion. But obviously a
huge amount of cost, and it does seem to me
there's a bit of a disconnect and understanding whether healthy
homes need to be standards in place for the benefit
of tenants and so on. Actually, the heating source, I
think people don't necessarily realize, as opposed to the building

(01:38:01):
itself being really well insulated, such that if you invest
in a heater or whatever as a tenant I do,
then it's not going to be heating us off.

Speaker 5 (01:38:09):
I think people will still be surprised that you can
build a building today to the Building Code, get a
CCC for it, and it will fail Healthy home standard
because we don't have a requirement for heating. Yeah, in
the building Code.

Speaker 10 (01:38:23):
I no doubt people are surprised, clearly. Still, your correspondence.

Speaker 5 (01:38:25):
Apples you as well. Actually, the other day at the
Green Building Council, you talked about ventilation. Can I get
you just to expand on that. What's obviously people have
come to you going, hey, we've got a looming problem
in terms of we're building better, so our buildings are
more air tight, but we're relying on people opening windows
which people may not do. So is this part of

(01:38:47):
your thinking?

Speaker 10 (01:38:48):
Yes, I mean, ventilation is another whole again, another subject
for another day. Not to run away from it it,
you know, eight twenty six, except to say that I'm
conscious that we do need to do some more work
in the space. You know, I've inherited a building code
that's you know, very good in some respects and less
good in others. Simply we need to work through all
these issues. Obviously a massive problem in the summer months

(01:39:11):
in townhouses particularly, And if it's as simple as being
able to say that you can open or have windows
that open to a greater extent than they currently can,
which you know, for safety reasons, you can understand why
you've got other rules in place as well. But maybe
the balance is out of whack, and I think when
need to look at it.

Speaker 5 (01:39:28):
Another text, what governs the extent to which councils can
make seemingly frivolous rifis requests further information? For example, I
recently had a drainage plan for a new build rejected
because it wasn't on a council letterhead.

Speaker 10 (01:39:41):
Oh goodness, that's one of the better ones I've heard, right,
or worse ones, probably from your correspondence perspective. But yeah,
I suppose it is frustrating. I think the common complaint
that I hear is not only you know, whatever the
detail might be, but also that tradees are often quite
nervous about pushing back to council on something that might
seem quite from us, because they need to have a

(01:40:01):
good ongoing relationship otherwise their next content you know, application
will be viewed you know, askance as a result. So okay,
so it's an argument against the monopoly, I suppose, albeit
that you know, obviously we've got a system where the
councilors currently are contracted out effectively to do this work.
So there's no easy answer. But certainly that sounds a
disappointing example. If it's what it sounds like.

Speaker 5 (01:40:21):
Yeah, sure, just in terms of you know, I was
going to say that there's a it's like a scatters
it might seem like a scatter gun approach. Right, We're
just it's whack a mole right at the moment. Solve
this problem pauses another problem. Let's say, if we look
forward to the next couple of months, what sort of
definitive outcomes will we hear, Like, will we hear about

(01:40:43):
H one?

Speaker 10 (01:40:44):
You'll hear about H one sooner rather than later. And
I think we're talking, you know, weeks, but as opposed
to months, and certainly not years. I know we need
to bring that to a head. We've talked about granny
flex legislation, so again within the next you know, a
few weeks or months, there will certainly be that legislation
available and it will start passing it. The other big
one actually we haven't talked about, and I know it's

(01:41:05):
probably not at the level that probably most of your
listeners are interested in, but the other really big rock
that we haven't talked about is seismic regulations great prayin buildings,
and then you get into the scenario of the interaction
between that inheritage datu swhich you know people are very
passionate about. So that's another thing that I think we
need to now this side of the election. And I'll

(01:41:26):
say election not because it's a politically part as a
matter in fact, I'm desperate do ensure that it's not,
and you know, I've had good interactions across the political aisle,
but just in terms of getting things done as soon
as possible to provide people certainty in all these areas
is going to be really important.

Speaker 5 (01:41:40):
Yeah, which, hey, you look to be fair, you could
do my job, because it's a perfect way of saying
we should come back and chat about that again in
the future. So, Chris, thank you very very much for
your time. Really really do appreciate you taking the time,
particularly on a Sunday that happens to be Mother's day,
to come in here and spend time. And yeah, I'll
reach out to your people two people, talk to my

(01:42:01):
people and will will arrange another interview at some stage.
If that's okay with.

Speaker 10 (01:42:05):
You, Well, wonderful I that and it means I really
appreciate it. Keep up the great work and having another
day to wear listeners.

Speaker 5 (01:42:10):
Yeah, thank you very much, Chris. We'll take a break
back with rut in just a moment.

Speaker 1 (01:42:19):
Whether you're painting the ceiling, fixing the fence, or wondering
how to fix that hole in the wall, give Peter
wolf Camp a call on eighty The Resident Builder on
News Talks EDB. For more from The Resident Builder with
Peter Wolfcamp, listen live to News Talks EDB on Sunday
mornings from six, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.

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