Meet The Democratic "Donald Trump" Running For Governor Of California

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello there, Chuck Todd. Here another episode of the Chuck Toddcast.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
It's a Wednesday, and today it's going to be a
bit of a focus on campaign twenty twenty six, if
you will. In fact, my guest is somebody who's already
running for an office in twenty twenty six. It's the
office of California governor, and we're likely to the California
governor's race is going to be the closest thing we
have to a presidential level race. It'll be, you know,

(00:28):
arguably the most important race that's held in the midterms.
The winner of the California governorship is essentially the leader
of the fourth largest economy on Earth, So it is
not a small job. And if you're governor of California,
you're automatically thought of as a potential future president. But

(00:50):
obviously this is going to be a unique year for
the California governorship because you've got the outgoing governor who
is clearly trying to position himself put himself in a
better position to run for president, Gavin Newsom. He's already
trying to take some sharp right turns away from the
progressive end of the Democratic Party, when it comes to transports,

(01:10):
when it comes to healthcare for undocumented immigrants, he certainly
is trying to do a bit of a heel turn,
if you will, and that we'll see it's a very clearly,
a very intentional move. Does it come across as authentic,
does he come across as somebody listening to voters, or
does he look like he's trying too hard that's going

(01:31):
to be on him, right. It all depends on how
you sell something like that. I remember when Mitt Romney
tried to move from being a moderate to a conservative,
I don't think it ever really took. And I remember
the biggest tell in twenty twelve is when he sold
himself as a severe conservative, a conservative that actual conservative
wouldn't refer to themselves as severe. I think they would

(01:54):
not think of themselves as an outlier, that they would
think of themselves as mainstream. And ultimately, I think the
Romney come to know that became a senator from Utah
and was the governor of Massachusetts.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
I think I think we know that that pragmatic.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Conservative is really who he is, and temper certainly, temperamentially
more of a moderate than a conservative, but on issues
certainly a mainstream pre Trump conservative for sure. But when
you make this sort of hard right turn or hard
left turn when you haven't been that, you'll get a

(02:31):
bunch of doubt out there. And I think that that's
going to be among the challenges for Gavin Newsom, which
brings me a little bit to Kamala Harris because she's
in the middle of preparing to run for governor. And
in the last twenty four hours, we got the best
analysis yet of who actually voted in twenty twenty four
and it really does showcase. I mean, we kind of
already knew why Democrats lost that they seemed to Donald

(02:53):
Trump performed better with men of color, whether it was
Latino men or African American men. He did better with
those two voting groups than any Republican had done since
George W. Bush in two thousand and four. And when
you look, you know, there's a couple of ways to
look at this data from Catalyst, And if you're a
true political junkie, I encourage you. This stuff is free,

(03:14):
it's available, it's online. The company is called Catalyst C
A T a l I S T. And they have
done a very thorough analysis of how people voted by
by age, by gender, by race, and then dividing it,
you know, by gender within those categories, and essentially they
confirm with data what we already saw and what the

(03:37):
exit polls told us, which was younger voters were less
democratic than they've been in a couple of generations. Basically,
as my friends at the Cook Political Report put it,
had this electorate, had this been the electorate that showed
up for Barack Obama, they'd have been doing hot. They'd
have been high fiving in their campaign. They they're too victor.

(04:00):
Reason eight and twelve were powered by a younger, more
diverse coalition. Well, younger, more diverse voters turned out to
be an infrequent voters turned out to be the secret
sauce for Donald Trump. He outperformed her on infrequent voters,
he outperformed her on younger voters, and he of course
outperformed her on the gender gap. And that's going to

(04:21):
be an interesting takeaway on this is Look, I'm going
to go to my grave believing gender wasn't the reason
she lost. Joe Biden's unpopularity is why Kamala Harris lost. However,
when you look at this data from Catalyst and you
look at all the deficits she had among men that

(04:41):
Joe Biden didn't have. Her deficits looked awfully similar to
Hillary Clinton's, while Joe Biden's support among men, whether they're
white men, rural men, Latino men, or African American men
looked more like Barack Obama twenty twelve or twenty oh
eight than they did Hillary Clinton twenty sixteen or Kamala
Are's t twenty four. That is going to, certainly, I think,

(05:05):
be something that is in the water inside this Democratic
primary over the next three years, which is this question,
can a woman win again? I will. You've heard me
say this before. I don't believe that gender is the
reason why Hillary Clinton lost, and I don't believe gender
is why Kamala Harris lost. Look, Kamala Harris was trying
to do what Hubert Humphrey couldn't do, what Al Gore

(05:28):
couldn't do. Okay, it is not easy for a sitting
vice president to replace a president who's underwater in their
own popularity. Okay, George hw pulled it off because Ronald
Reagan had an approval rating over sixty percent. I promise
you had Reagan's approval rating been hovering in fifty or
below that he doesn't win reelection in eighty eight. So

(05:52):
I do think the environment made it very difficult. But
you can't look at these specific numbers among men and
see this the fact that Biden got him back when
they were lost to Hillary Clinton and then they were
lost again. That's going to leave an imprint on a
lot of Democratic strategies who are going to convince themselves
that the country's not ready to elect a woman, or

(06:14):
certainly that it makes it harder, because ironically, Kamala Harris
did better among women in fact than Biden did, not
by much, but in the battleground states. There is some
evidence that that happened. A few other takeaways from the
Catalyst data that I think should continue to cement some

(06:34):
conventional wisdom about our politics in the moment right now,
which is, get this through your head. In two thousand
and eight and twenty twelve, higher turnout meant better results
for the Democrats, in twenty sixteen, twenty four, higher turnout,
and in twenty twenty. The higher the turnout, the better
it is for Republicans. The infrequent voter, the voter that

(06:59):
occasionally shows up, the low information voter, however you want
to describe this person, if they showed up to vote,
they were more likely to vote Republican, more likely to
vote for Trump than they were for the Democrats. That
is a big, giant problem as long as we live
in a high turnout environment if you're Democrats. Now here's
the good news for the Democrats and the reason why

(07:20):
so many election analysts like myself are so bullish on
the Democrats doing well in the midterms. Kamala Harris did
extraordinarily well with essentially the frequent voter, the super voter.
If you voted in every single midterm and presidential since
twenty sixteen, you were more likely to vote for Kamala
Harrison twenty twenty four than you were for Donald Trump.

(07:42):
But the more of those elections you didn't vote in,
the higher the likelihood you voted for Donald Trump. So
what does this mean for the midterms. Trump's not going
to be on the ballot and you're going to get
infrequent voters are not going to show up. We're already
seeing it throughout all of these special elections, all of
these off year elections, Omaha mayor Wisconsin Supreme Court, the

(08:06):
two races in Florida that we had in those congressional races.
Every single special we've seen, Democratic performance is up, Republican
performance is down. And it really is because as we
have sorted, the two political parties are sorted by education. Well,
the higher education attainment you have, the more likely you

(08:28):
are to vote. So if you're college educated, you're more
likely to vote well. In the eighties and nineties and
the first decade of the twenty first century, those voters
more likely usually leaned Republican, and in fact, special elections
during the Bush era were almost always won by Republicans,
less so by Democrats because they had the more infrequent voters.

(08:50):
You know, I'm going to give you a fun little
visual stereotype that I think shows you how things have
changed ten years ago. If one of the fun little
data points was if you had a tattoo, you were
more likely to vote left than you were to vote right. Now,
that is just that has flipped completely that if you

(09:15):
have a tattoo, the more likely you know more than
one tattoo, the more likely you are to vote Republican.
The point is is that somehow the Democratic Party became
the party that judges you and the Republican Party became
the party that doesn't that doesn't tell you what to do.
Just ten years ago, that script was flipped. The generic
conventional wisdom of the two parties was, it's the Republicans

(09:36):
that tell you how to live your life. The Democrats
are the Libertarians. They Hey, everybody's welcome into that big ten.
And somehow the Democrats became the rules party, and Donald
Trump turned the Republican Party into the Hey, anybody's welcome
to be a part of the Trump coalition. And I
think that explains why these less frequent voters find themselves

(09:59):
gravitating more to wards Trump than they do towards the Democrats.
That's something they have to figure out how to change.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
I think that.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
I think some Democrats thought John Fetterman was going to
be their path to that. Now there's obviously a whole
John Fetterman situation going on in the party. How much
of this is over politics. Our people on the left
just upset that he's too pro Israel or is this issue?
Are his his challenges something that need to be taken

(10:28):
more seriously And all of this has gotten lost in
this in this entire left right perspective. A few other
campaign twenty twenty six notes that I think are worth
touching on that's happened in the last few days. I
do think that Democrats, you know, it's interesting when Jared Golden,

(10:49):
he is this Democrat who wins in Trump Country. He's
the second congressional district in Maine. That district Trump is
carried every time he's run for president all three times,
and Maine is one of two states that splits their
electoral votes by congressional district. But Jared Golden, as a Democrat,
thanks to rank choice voting, continues to be able to
hang on to his seat. Well, there was some talk

(11:09):
that he might run for governor, and there was some
talk that he might challenge Susan Collins. Well, he announced
he's not going to do either. I will tell you this,
I do think him as a statewide candidate, he was
a shoein' to defeat Susan Collins. So if your Kirsten Jillibrand,
I think you're disappointed. But they still believe they can
recruit the governor, Janet Mills, to run for that Senate seat.

(11:30):
Let's see if that happens. There seems to my guess
is if Jared Golden is doing what he's doing. I'm
not saying is he's not somebody that usually plays party politics.
He usually marches to his own drum. But something tells
me that because there isn't this lack of I thought
there'd be some massive disappointment when Golden announced that he
wasn't going to run for the Senate seat, Because when

(11:52):
you start to do the math, Democrats are going to
have to win that main Senate seat. If they don't
hold every single Senate seat in states they carry in
president elections, there are chances of getting to fifty Senate seats,
let alone fifty one if a Republican as president, in
order to have control the Senate becomes more and more
of a long shot. So they got to win this
main race if they want to stay competitive even if

(12:14):
they don't win the Senate in twenty six, if they
want to be competitive to win the Senate in twenty eight.
So the fact that they're not there's all this, There
isn't a collective group of disappointment tells me they must
think that the governor is getting closer to actually doing
something like that. And then the other thing to watch
is for twenty twenty five Republicans are already writing off Virginia,

(12:41):
and in fact, now I think there is a bit
of a panic that Democrats are going to sweep Virginia
and that if not just the three statewide offices governor,
lieutenant governor Attorney general, but that they may be able
to build more of an advantage in the Assembly. We'll see,
But one thing to keep your eye on is there's
been a remarkable foreshadowing of how the off year elections

(13:04):
go in the Virginia Assembly. Whichever way, whichever party gained seats,
it has a remarkable way of sort of of foreshadowing
what the national House makeup will look like. So the
better Democrats do in the Virginia Assembly usually means the
better that party is going to do in the following
year's midterm election. So it's worth following there. But I

(13:26):
do think the bigger race and the more competitive race
is going to be in New Jersey because New Jersey
is one of these states that I think the as
the realignment of the Democratic Party and the Republican Party continue.
New Jersey's estate where there's a lot of working class
Democrats that have felt a bit alienated from the Democratic Party.
You know you saw it. You have the party switch

(13:48):
of a Democrat, Jeffry and Drew, he was a Democratic
elected congressman in New Jersey, switches to and he is
able to hold his seat as now a Republican, and
he's essentially a Trump Republican. You have a candidate that's
likely to win the nomination for governor there, Jack Cidarelli,
who ran the last time, and he ran. He ran

(14:11):
a competent race against Phil Murphy. It was closer than
many people thought it would be. And I think this time,
you know he's Look, Democrats have a crowded primary. But
Mikey Cheryl, who's the Democratic congresswoman, very moderate former national
security background, is somebody the party has a lot of

(14:32):
confidence in. But I think this could be a marquee race.
And I think it's an interesting test to see, uh,
to see if if the new Trump coalition at all
can have some success without Trump on the bout, because
I think Shitdarelli's as good of a representative of this
new coalition as you can get in Jersey. But it

(14:54):
is interesting to me for all of us, we're used
to Virginia being the big off year race that we
I'll follow and it's always very competitive because Virginia, you know,
in a pre Trump era, was a swing state. We
saw its swing state sort of history show up with
Glenn Youngkin winning that president, winning that governorship right after
Biden won the twenty twenty election. So I still think

(15:17):
Virginia sort of wants to be But with the federal
government workers being so angry at this administration, they're going
to show up. They're going to vote, And federal government
workers don't always show up in state races in Virginia,
but when they do, it's a huge advantage for Democrats.
So I do think if you're looking for competitive races

(15:37):
in twenty twenty five, you may not look at the
old dominion. I think you're going to have to go
to the Garden State. One other thing to keep an
eye on, apparently LSU is looking for a new chancellor.
I think they do chancellors, not presidents. My friend Jonathan Martin,
you may know him from Politico, has already publicly floated
the idea that Bill Cassidy, the current Senator who's got

(15:59):
to deal with the primary challenge that many people think
he can't overcome. Remember Bill Cassidy, one of the Republican
senators who has tried to seek reelection and he voted
to convict Donald Trump after January sixth, Many people don't
believe he can survive a primary. Is the LSU chancellorship

(16:19):
an exit ram anyway? Just something to keep an eye on,
all right. I promise you you will not regret listening
to this interview with Steve Klubeck. There's all sorts of
references in this interview. Do you like references to OnlyFans?
You're going to get it in this interview. Do you
like references to Donald Trump? You may or may not

(16:39):
like that, You're going to get it in this interview.
You like boxing references, all sorts of you want to
find out how the timeshare industry works, Harry Reid's stories,
You're going to get pieces of that in this interview.
Klubec is an interesting cat. Might some people might call
him a character, but here's the interesting thing about him.

(17:02):
He believes in always being on the record. He is
unafraid of being on the record, and I think that
comes across Just trust me, you'll enjoy it. So joining
me now is entrepreneur, businessman, political activist, and Democratic candidate

(17:22):
for governor Steve Klubeck. As you could see with his background,
you're having a lot of fun with your name. Get
a clue is a is a pretty good avatar. And look,
you're intriguing to me for all the reasons, For a
number of reasons, but the biggest one is here we

(17:43):
are after a campaign where the Democratic brand went into
the toilet. There is certainly a lot of handwringing. And
the next big race isn't the presidential in twenty eight
it's the governorship of California. And you're the only sort
of non traditional candidate out there running. And I'll be
honest with you, I thought there'd be a lot of

(18:05):
Steve Klubec's. I thought there'd be a lot of whether
they're entrepreneurs, whether they're local activists, whether they are people
that haven't gone into politics who just look around and
going I'm tired of the same old people running over
and over again, which is what we're seeing in this race.
And you're one of the only sort of non traditional

(18:26):
candidates trying to do this. And it's not to say
you're not You may not govern it. You may end
up governing very traditionally for all I know. But why
do you think you're alone in this sort of wild
card length.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
Well, nice seeing you again. We've spent time together in
the past. Yeah, yeah, we've been around Democratic Party politics careers,
me as a hobby, you as a profession. I interviewed
every candidate in California. I was not intending to do this, Chuck.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
You're a donor, You're a regular donor. You've been a
big so you but you see yourself almost as an
investor when you donate to a candidate, right, you look
at it as an investment, one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
For almost four decades now, and I have been appointed.
I've served federal Office Brand USA, the Tourism Department of
the United States. During the Obama administration, I reported to
the Oval Office created Brand USA. And you know, I
was taught by the great Harry Reid. I adopted dad

(19:27):
and go back to the George Mitchell dates, the great one,
So George Mitchell, John Brow.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
Dodd, you know.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
And I learned a lot. And I've served down statewide
to appointed with indictment power, and I've had the ags
of state report to me in the highway patrol. And
I've done local work too, but all pro bono. My
entire career. This is pro bono too, by the way.
So I interviewed every single candidate, and I'm like, this

(19:58):
is the best we got. And I turned to a
couple of my dear friends and I said, you know,
I sold my company. I did very well. I'm doing
a lot of philanthropic work and I'm always involved. And
so I've legislated, I've regulated, I've adjudicated, I've been a judge.
I fixed the most broken of companies. California's broken. Let

(20:19):
me take a look at this. Let me do my
due diligence. My homework no different than buying a company
and trying to fix it. And boy went a mess.
You know, I grew up in California kindergarten through first
year of college, and it was so different. It had
great exports. It was the bully pulpit of the United States.
I'm a product of California values. I spent my summers

(20:39):
in northern California in Willits Mendocino County, and I built
shopping centers in my twenties throughout southern California. You know,
Current County down south. I've driven every five county in
southern California with the Thomas Guide way back when it's
my home. I just happened to be involved in creating
a worldwide company, a hospitality company, and I saw a

(21:03):
state that's overregulated, that's not open for business. It's not affordable, lovable,
nor workable. People are leaving. All my dear friends are leaving.
Some of my friend's children are leaving because it's not
affordable and workable. So I started doing all this due
diligence as to you why. And I met three hundred

(21:24):
thought leaders, and I saw that the leadership of California
has forgotten about its best customers. That's why people have
left when we've lost revenue. People have forgotten about the
fundamental principles which I've been taught by great leaders, respect, responsibility,

(21:44):
and deliver results. People have forgotten about being accountable, executing
and enforcing the law. I've seen so many leaders today,
the careerists, they're just jumping from title to title, and
they think they're owed it for a job or a paycheck.
I don't require either one. I'm built to serve. So

(22:06):
I did some polling in the state with Frank Lance,
and we found some of the words that I am
talking to you about today are true and as we've
seen in past elections, Democrats my big tent and I'm
a Democrat, but I believe in balancing income statement, law

(22:26):
and order. That's how I grew up as a Democrat.
That was a Democrat. That was Ronald Reagan actually, and
the others that I mentioned to you, and the Democratic
Party fell into a failed social experiment of wokeism. But
it's interesting. I believe in LGBTQ rights. I believe in

(22:49):
having the greatest climate for us for our children, but
the leaders are forgotten about fundamental, unintended consequences of actions.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
So you know, I want to jump in here because
I just recently he was talking with Rocanna. He's a
member of Congress up in Silicon Valley, and I you know,
he's look, he's focused. He wants to run for president.
Is you know, all but all? But you know he's
one of those that doesn't hide the ambition.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
And I asked him, I said, what what do.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
You make of the of you know, I was asking
about whether Kamala Harris should run for governor and then
he started talking about he goes, you know, it's it's
just been a failed you know, it just hasn't worked.
And I'm like, well, this is sixteen years of Democratic governors. Okay,
it's been sixteen straight years of Democrats in charge of
the governor's mansion. So is this a governor problem or

(23:43):
is this systemic? Is it bigger than that? Is it
the legislature? He wasn't sure where to how to answer that.
How do you answer that?

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Ah, good question, because I've done my due diligence, and
there are some wonderful, shining stars in the state of
California in the legislature and I can name them. And
there are some really great mayors in California, and there's

(24:12):
some great congressional leaders. There's been no titular leadership in
our party in our state as Californians. I have to
tell you, though you have Nancy Pelosi, Gavin Newsome, Jerry Brown,
how as none of them a good are you you're

(24:32):
in I don't think you mean to do this, but
you're sort of indicting those those three people that they
weren't good leaders of the Democratic Party in California. Would
we have the problems we have today if they were
good leaders?

Speaker 3 (24:47):
I ask you, soul like you have concluded the answers. Now,
these are revealing times. Now who should leave and who
should now beat? Because if they had done such a
great job, we wouldn't be having this discussion today, and

(25:10):
I wouldn't have even contemplated doing this. And my dear friends,
who've done well in business, said, why are you doing this?
Why you've done so well? You know, you fix the
most broken. You've been involved in federal issues and I said,
state issues and local issues, they've said, and I said, yeah,

(25:31):
I've fixed the problems of political.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Lack of results. I've fixed a lot of political problems
with different ways of thinking about it, bringing together, unifying, unifying,
fixing the most broken. And you know why I'm doing
it because my friends won't because they don't have brass balls,
and they don't they want to criticize. They don't want
to fight for our great state, our country of California,

(26:00):
which I'm willing to do. I'm willing to fight for California,
fight for our values. Well, tell me what.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
Gavin should have done differently, because one thing you can't
say about him is that he's a shrinking violet.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
He's not. No, he's a friend. Don't look. We lead differently.
We lead differently. Okay, Look, I have fixed broken. I
don't think he's ever fixed broken.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
So you're sort of implying that because he doesn't have
private sector his lack of private sector experience has probably
been a demerit in your mind.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
I'm going to say it's a demerit. It's just not
for these times.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
You know.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
Look, I'm here reading, willing and able to help him
and assist each to allow him to aspire to whatever
his dreams are. I want him to look good. I
want everyone to look good. I want everyone. I'm not
into this finger pointing. I grew up in a world
where I'm a leader. I I've operated in thirty five countries,

(27:02):
sixteen languages, six currencies, and I fix the most broken,
and I take the incoming bullets, and I give my
team the trophies, and I create leaders. I create leaders.
I want to sit in the back of the theater
a clap for my team. I don't need a red carpet.
I'm good, I'm good. I want everyone to do well.
I want everyone to aspire well. And you know, profits

(27:23):
are profits, but guess what, it's not just about money.
There is such a concept as social profits and That's
where my philanthropic experience comes into play. I've given away
tens and tens and tens of millions of dollars after tax,
and I require every philanthropy I'm involved with to show

(27:43):
me how efficient they are and what their results are
for the intended purpose to help the people. I go
up into two. I was in Bakersfield for the farm Workers' Convention,
and I was touring around and I learned about cap
and trade, and I understand energy in California and water,
and we can talk about all fifteen counties if you want.

(28:06):
And I respect everyone in California because I grew up here. Wow,
these other candidates, haven't you grown up here? How do
you run for office here? You just became a US
citizen twenty one? Well, you know about parliamentary government. That's
just an aside. And you know, if you're a careerist
and you're looking for just another job, well, you already failed.

(28:27):
What are you trying to do? You're already proven in it,
incapable of fixing the problem. You actually were part of
causing the problem. Okay, so you know it's different. This
is a different campaign. These are different times. I roll
up my sleeves. I'm here to serve. It's about us.

(28:49):
We so let's talk.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
Let me let me just because I think a good
way of getting a sense of your style and what
your style could be would be to sort of go back.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
So let's let's go backward, just real quickly to the
last cycle.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Chuckout.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
Okay, because I was, I was involved with part of
my team to assist. I lent part of my team
to Harris Waltz and I met with with Waltz. I
know the team. They were tone deaf. They were tone deaf.
And let me ask you a question in business.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
Why were they tond Why do you think they were
tone deaf? Were they afraid of the interest groups? No? No,
what is it that has made them tone deaf?

Speaker 2 (29:30):
They're tone deaf because they've never signed the front of
a check, neither one of them. They don't know balance
sheet income statement, they've ever created jobs, they've never been
responsible for payroll, coming out of their pocket for payroll,
which I have done. And they blew a billion three
approximately in ninety days. You tell me, I know if
any bank gave me that money and I blew it
ninety days, ain't going to get more money. Okay, they

(29:52):
were toned deaf to the economy, eggs, brig bread, milk, cheese, gas,
and immigration. And I'm happy to discuss each and every
one of them. And I scripting it comes because I
listened to the people of the customers of the United
States or the customers of California. You have to deliver
equal or greater value. That's it. Show results, but have

(30:17):
experience to do it and listen. They weren't listening. They
were in their echo chamber, their bubble of nonsense.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Let me ask the last four governors of all one reelection,
including Gray Davis. People, forget this. He won reelection and
then immediately got recalled. Yeah, sure, friend of mine, is
what Let's start with Gray Davis? What did he get right?

Speaker 2 (30:42):
Oh? You know what, I'm not here to criticize, nor
am I going to that's right.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
That's why I asked, like, what do you think he
got right? What do you how would you take from
him to help you govern the state? You know each
of the governors, because I've listened and looked at the
history of all them. I take them as points in history.
I do things my own way.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
After the due diligence that I've done based on the
times today. History is history, to understand it, but these
times are different, and I don't throw arrows or rocks
at anything of the past. I don't point fingers because
I can't change history. All I can do is tell you,

(31:26):
with integrity and transparency, what is today, and listen for
simpler solutions because that people want simpler solutions. And I've
listen to the folks who cannot operate in California. So
I'm going to open it back up for business. And
how do we do that. We have to deregulate. We're

(31:46):
going to have to do things differently. So this is bespoke.
These are new times. I can then come up with
solutions for the problems that exist. And for example, I
propose a state of Performance and Results and I call
it the California Department of Performance and Results, otherwise known
as CPR, which the state grievely needs haha, not Baja.

(32:09):
But really, you know, it's true living in a world
where all of our exports are crowded about five grade exports, right,
not in any order. Agriculture, tourisment, travel, innovation, manufacturing, entertainment,
and education, well it used to be education. It should

(32:31):
be again and treating us as a country, maybe even
having a department state where we have ambassadors to other countries,
maybe even having a sovereign wealth fund within the state. Now,
these concepts not want candidate could even go into detail

(32:52):
with solutions on these, and I can. I can. But Look,
we've got affordability, which is housing, right, We've got insurance
we've got to deal with. Okay, We've got homelessness which
we need to deal with. We have entertainment which we
need to deal with. Okay, And I can't touch on

(33:16):
all of these with solutions. Why because I have done it,
I have fixed it in the past, I've proven and
I have solutions where the others do not. All right, well,
tell me your solution on homelessness. Well, homelessness. I have

(33:36):
found some of the best operators in the state, like
the La Dream Center. I've been working with for five years,
the La Dream Center. It's faith based and this is
a nonprofit. Why not have a public private partnership with
the standard operating procedures of this great facility. Their costs

(33:56):
to operate are one third that of government. Now, why
aren't we doing that in partnership and having it all
throughout the state of California as best practice. I would
even say after school all starts to Okay, I'm just
giving you examples of some out of the box philosophies

(34:17):
that I worked on in philanthropy and in government and
in my private side where we take in turbocharge the
best of the best. So your pitch sounds to me
a lot.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
The reason I wanted to go back and talk about
these governors because there's really only two governors that I
can think of going back fifty years of California that
fit your profile, meaning they weren't professional politicians their whole life. Okay,
and that's Reagan and schwartzen Air. Yes, And Arnold's probably
the better example to talk with you about. Pronounceince it's a.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Bit because he was a better bodybuilder than I was.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Well, there you go, and I think about the things
you're talking about, and Arnold talked about that as well,
and he ran into a lot of it. You know,
this is what happens to a lot of outsiders that win,
is that you win and people like what you're saying, yes,
do this, do this, and then you run into the bureaucracy.

(35:21):
And that's what Arnold ran into headlong into the California bureaucracy,
and he lost more than he won. And I'd argue
that by the end, with those last propositions, you know,
I think he really did leave a positive mark on
the and and gave Jerry Brown some tools to sort
of stabilize things thanks to those referendum. That's my opinion.

(35:45):
I'm curious what you think on that. But what could
you learn from Arnold? Because in many ways you're you're
coming in the same way. You don't have the accent,
but it's like he had a success he ran some
successful businesses. He was coming at it from a Hey, look,
I'm not a big ideologue. We've got to do a
few of these things. What's what can you what do

(36:07):
you What do you take away from his failures and
his successes that you could mirror Because to me, if
you win this argument, it'll be because people long for
sort of someone like Arnold Again.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
Well, I would say that following and I'm not throwing
stones arrows. I wouldn't go after all the unions like
Arnold did at the beginning and all at once.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Oh I think he okay, well, it's the right he went.
He tried to govern it so much as a Republican.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
So at first, hear me out, hear me out. My
point is this, I've been a union guy my entire career.
I have built and operated in union framework. I have
stood and held hand side by side with union.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
You can't do business in Nevada r anti union unless
unless you're Sheldon Natilson, I guess.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
But anyway, Yeah, and that's that era ended too post
his post his departure on Earth. God. Look, I learned
a lot from a lot of these great leaders. I'm
friends with UfW and I'm friends with you know, the plumbers,
the electricians because I've built high rise hotels jobs with them.

(37:24):
I've operated with them to both unite and operating engineers. Okay,
but remember this, chuck the differences. I am thirty nine
nine years in the making, listening to and learning from
some great leaders. And I don't want to be repetitive.

(37:45):
But Harry Reid the master, it's my adopted dad. Okay,
I listened.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
What do you what do you? Let's talk about, Harry,
what did you learn? Yeah, finish the Arnold question, and
then I want.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
To talk about finish on your point. And remember I
learned from Bill Clinton. I learned because I've sat for
hours with these folks, Okay, and I've done this federally. Now,
all right, how did I get and create Brand USA?
And it's still operating fourteen years later with a great
return on investment and results. I set up the infrastructure,

(38:18):
and you're telling me I didn't have to walk into Washington,
d C. To work with Homeland Security, Customs and Borders,
the Senate, the House, Treasury, Commerce, State Interior, and report
to the Oval. Okay. And I got that done. It
was a little dicey at times, but that I had

(38:38):
to create trust and then deal with the GAO auditing
me not one infraction, dealing with omb through the mix
of it. So don't say I come to the table
with attributes Arnold didn't have. I come to the table
with state responsibility out of Nevada, having indictment power and

(38:59):
having the age and the highway control report to me
and reported to the governor. And I've done it at
the local level too. So I come to the table
a little bit differently than Arnold did with government experience,
and I feel comfortable and confident that I can work
with the Senate the Assembly to create camaraderie, trust where

(39:21):
we can be on the same page and team for
the customers of California. Okay, so that's where I come different.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
I mean, let me before we get tarry read, Actually,
what makes you a Democrat and not an independent?

Speaker 2 (39:35):
I'm loyal to my party because there was a time
way back when mch Forcommon. Can't you come see me
and try to convert me to the Republican side? And
you know what, I listened, and I went to two meetings,

(39:57):
you know, meet and greets. Whatever does he recruit you
for a center race? Recruiting me as a donor? But yeah, no, Look,
I've been very involved philanthropically, you know, politically involved and
as an activist too. So I went into the room
I did not fit in. I'm not bougie. I don't

(40:20):
have I'm not cuff links, pocket square, fancy ties, shiny
shoes and shiny nail polish. I don't own a yacht.
You know, I'm not that guy. Not fancy, no fancy watches.
Have I had them? Yeah, but you know what, I'm
proud of it, but I don't wear them. Put me
in the streets and Common John handled to just steal
him for his new TV show anyway. But anyway, oh,

(40:42):
that's right, he's very good at that, by the way.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
Yeah, I know is yeah, I feel like that entire
TV show is just designed to advertise watches I've never
heard of. But anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
It's very funny. But he's got to be the pawnbroker
and negotiate with the pawnbrokers. Hysterical. It's a fun it's
a fun show. It is really is so paradise, by
the way, but look, I feel comfortable in the street.
I like my customers. I'm in a hotel guy. I
like walking around. I see thirty nine million customers in

(41:12):
California I can engage with and listen to and make
their life better, more beautiful, where they can aspire and
the California becomes the bully pulpit again, where we can
actually grow the state to forty four million. Now that
means we're going to have to fundamentally fix some broken
things and grow. We need to turn that sign from

(41:33):
closed to open and be inviting. But we have to
fix and rip these band aids off. Their bendis on
band aids and they're bleeding, so you had to clean
the wound, make sure we get all the margins and
the cancer is gone, and we start to heal, recover, solidify,
and grow.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
You know, Elon Musk left, then came back and is left,
and then he comes back. And Gavin Newsom will say
every time eln tries to leave, he realizes the best
workers are in California. His workers prefer to live in California.
They don't want to live in Nevada. They don't want
to live in Austin. No offense to both of those places, No, no,

(42:14):
not true, right, But what is it? What is it
that California does that makes these business leaders tempted to leave?
Most a lot of them come back because of the
quality of life issues.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
Well, I came back. I didn't have to, right. I
assume it's quality of life more than anything else. Right,
one hundred percent. There's no greater state in the United States.
I've been to all of them. I've been all over
the world, operating thirty five countries. I could live anywhere
in the world. There's no better place than California in

(42:50):
the world. So why is it hard to do business
in California? Why do people in business say it's hard
to do business in California and I say this because
there's a hell of a lot of successful businesses in
California that are still complaining it's not good. It's not
good to do business California. You see what I mean? Fine,
love bit of a contradiction. Well, it is a contradiction.
So when the head of the farm workers and the

(43:10):
CEO of Chevron tell me the same thing, what does
that tell you? Well, what is that that they say?
The leaders and the governor never sat down and talked
to the best customers of California. Okay, when you don't
talk to your customers, how do you know what's bothering them,
what's inhibiting them from doing good business?

Speaker 1 (43:30):
Noh?

Speaker 2 (43:30):
I Look, I believe I'm not a total deregulation guy.
I operated in highly regulated businesses. Regulations are good to
keep bad actors out. Too many regulations keep good business
from doing good business. And that doesn't mean I'm a
hardcore Republican. I'm a hardcore center Okay, I will tilt left,

(43:51):
tilt right. I have the biggest heart on LGBTQ. But
guess what it don't need man x Y playing an
x X sports. That's genetics, biology, one on one. I
have not found a solution for that one, and it's
unfair and not right. That doesn't mean I don't believe
in transgender I just am not going to allow them

(44:11):
to compete in my world because I don't want my
daughter having the crap kicked out of her by some dude.
And now is you know, wants to become a woman.
Okay in body, but not in genetics. And that's Those
are the facts and hard truths, Chuck. Those are harders.

(44:31):
And guess what, it's time for hard troots. We got
to face these hard troops. By the way, go get
my book. It's called Facing Art Troops.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
I know you you You've already sent me a copy
of it. Trust me, I'm digging into it. Harry Reid,
you've talked about him, you know, Harry Reid is is uh.
I will always say publicly one of the most difficult
interviews journalists like, he sucked, he sucked on camera, he
didn't like being on TV. And he's such a blunt

(44:59):
talker that it no, He's what he wanted to get across, didn't.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
It, Chuck? How about this? People would say to me,
how do you deal with Harry? I mean, you hang
up on you in like thirty seconds, one minute or
a minute thirty and it would never say goodbye when
he's done. He was done, right, he did it when
he was done, he was done.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
And he did it to President Obama so many times.
That's the joke of jokes. But you know, my biological father, Sheldon,
God bless him too. That's how I met Harry. Harry
Reid was my father's attorney when I was fifteen.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Oh interesting.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
And I met Mike Milkin when I was thirteen, So
I was really you know, a friend of my father
and I was blessed to have them, have them in
my life, and they're my mentors. I'm got product of them, Chuck.
But Harry taught me. I mean I'd be on the
phone for him for half an hour hour and people
would go no, way, impossible. I go, no, yeah, yes,

(45:58):
way yes. And he taught me to be a fighter.
He was a fighter. He was a silent assassin. Oh yeah,
tough as nails. So I'm a fighter with bravado because
of my reality TV experience. I don't want to tell you.
I just all right, let's.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
Let's go to your personality because I think you know
and I say this with respect.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
It's it's, uh, you're.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
You're, you're you're a You're a forward leaning guy. You're
not afraid of a camera, you're not shy about a quote,
and you you're you're, you're okay with shooting.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Your mouth off every now and then.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
What uh, some people will well you try to use
this against you in this campaign and then say, you
know what, we don't need a Donald Trump and the
Democratic Party.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
No, guess what I disagree you actually do because you
need somebody who has fought Donald Trump before, which I
you you are so wrong, It is the opposite. You
do you need? Well, this is my question.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
I think there's a strong debate here. So does the
party need to go and they.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
Actually needs the party actually needs bravado in the heart center.
That's not afraid, that's got brass balls. Okay. It's actually
sat across the table from Donald Trump and his office
in New York because we had the same architect and
we were talking about Trump Tower Las Vegas, and I
sat there and I'm like, ooh, okay, there's too many.

(47:29):
Chuckstaposed the similarities. Both were for Larger than Life just
before I did reality TV. It's before he did reality TV.
And you know both our shows, The Apprentice and under
Cover Boston have the same format. They both end up
in tears minor happy tears. And I'll tell you also this.

(47:50):
The Democratic Party needs somebody to fight for it that
has brass balls, that's not afraid, that encompasses our democratic values,
which I do. Okay, that is unabout So these are
the lessons. So what do you learn from Donald Trump?
What should the Democratic Party learn from Donald Trump? To
say what's on your mind instead of trying to like

(48:13):
be uh, none of the woke stuff. Just say what's
on your mind. Listen to the people. He knows customers.
I know customers too. He knows who his customer is.
I know who our customers are. I know the customers
California because I did the polling. These are my words,
these are the customer's words. I'm just delivering a good experience.

(48:37):
And it's gonna be a fun ride. You're gonna have
a little fun for change. Okay, You're gonna have fun.
You're gonna find this whole campaign on your you, go
go ahead, go ahead. What was your question? You're gonna
fund this whole campaign on your own? No, Harry Reid.
One oh one, never fund your own campaign. Create community.
I will have money aligned with it, totally aligned. I

(48:58):
paid maintain taxes in California. I have money aligned in
the campaign. I will not self fund. You not buy
an election. And two you never switch parties. That's why
I'm a lifelong Democrat.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
I can because that is you know, our friend, You've
got a nice rite up in puckreet recently and you
were put into the category that everybody's going to put
you in. Oh Al check Ee and oh this you
know Jane Harmon and all these folks and Meg Whitman,
and it sounds like you're like, yes, that is a
lesson learned.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Don't try to buy the seat. You can't do it.
It's one on one. I was talked by the greatest
you can't buy an election. You must create community. But
have your money aligned. Because if I was just well
to do and didn't put any money in, then I
don't have skin in the game. No different than any
business deal. My bankers and investors want to know I'm aligned,

(49:51):
So I'm focused every day. I've got money aligned with
the people of California for the betterment of all of us.
I'm roll up my sleeves. Okay, I'm aligned. I'm not
doing it for title. I'm not doing it for a paycheck.
I can tell you that. And I'm unemployable looking for

(50:12):
a job. Uh So, no, no, look I love what
I I got to. Trust me. I'm a white guy
over fifty. I know what you mean by the unemployable. Well, look,
this is the toughest thing I teeth. This is the
toughest thing I've ever done. And I'm serious every day.
But it's most fun I've ever had. Each and every
day I'm learning new things. I'm meeting beautiful people throughout

(50:34):
our state. Okay, and we'll talk about simple solutions for
a better life, a better way. And that sounds like
a catchphrase, but you know what, that's what people want.
They said that to me. I didn't make it up.
That's what the people want. I want to hear from
everyone in California. What is impeding you from doing good
business in California? Tell me the problems and let's start

(50:57):
fixing them one by one.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
Okay, why did uh? Why why couldn't Donald Trump start
a casino in Nevada?

Speaker 2 (51:07):
Uh? Why did Donald Trump go bankrupt in three casinos
in Atlantic City. Why, I mean, Donald Trump doesn't create value,
Donald Trump destroys value.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
It's always been interesting to me that he has a building,
you know, he has a building in Las Vegas and
he can't get a casino. I know it's not without trying.
He can't see me get a casino license. And the
rumors used to be that Steve Wynn was blocking him.
But what I've always been, you're you were tied into
that world. You know he could Why could he never

(51:41):
get certified? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
If I knew, i'd tell you I joke, I will never.
I don't. I don't make shut up.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
I don't know, no, I I just that's an interesting question.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
I go find out it was things that I don't
know Trump. I'm gonna I'll go find out. I've never
been asked that question, but I'm gonna go find out
because I know numerous people on the Gaming Commission that
I can say, Hey, by the way, what do you
think why I don't I always thought that it never
wanted to build it that way because Phil Ruff and
his partner, you know, owned Treasure Island.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
I mean, I don't mean to be sound ridiculous here,
but who would want to build a high rise in
Las Vegas and not have a casino in their high
rise hotel.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
I didn't. At Polo Towers, I did not. Matter of fact,
I had slot machines and I had a slot license,
and I got rid of it. I was I had
a casino license, and I got rid of that slot
license because it was just too much accounting paperwork for
the money that I was being made. And on top
of it, my team members were going up there after
work and they were taking their paycheck and putting it

(52:49):
into the slot machines. And I hated taking money from
my people because I actually have integrity. I did not
want to like take That was one of the reasons
why I got rid of my slot machines. I was
at the paperwork. It was too difficult, and I was
taking actually the paycheck that we were paying to our
team members and they're putting back in these machines, and

(53:10):
I felt really bad about it.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
Tell me about the timeshare industry, Yeah, I'm a skeptic.
Tell me, why tell me why I shouldn't be.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
I'll tell you why you shouldn't be, Because you know,
there's millions and millions and millions of owners I mean
when I bought the most broken of companies because I
solved the sins of the fathers.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
I gave what were the bad practices that you got
rid of in the time?

Speaker 2 (53:38):
Oh God? Like you know, had this guy in Orlando,
and I bought all the mid market companies that went broke.
They were over leveraged. They were like selling two bedroom
units and they only had one bedroom units. They were
popping balloons champagne and not providing equal with greater value.
It's not for everyone, Okay. It makes sense if you

(54:02):
want to own it for over ten years and when
you are paying for your ongoing costs after you paid
it off, it makes sense. And the timeshare business of old,
I don't know that it really makes sense today. And
that's one of the reasons I'm out of the business
today because I saw it no longer as a viable product, Chuck,

(54:22):
because I didn't see millennials embracing it with their Do
you think R, B and B. I'm just curious.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
You think Airbnb has basically killed the time share world? Yeah.

Speaker 4 (54:33):
Look, and Brian Cheskey's friend, and I was so anti
Brian Cheske. The whole entire hotel industry was look for
it's regulated. He doesn't have to have a DA you
know responsible.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
I've heard the Kublas Life say, he doesn't have to
have cleanliness standards, he doesn't have inspections by the by
the health department. There's you know, there's so many issue
life safety, et cetera. And look, yeah, he has changed
the experience, but he saw market that the millennials were

(55:09):
gravitating George, which was experiential, and that is the antithesis
of the timeshare business. The timeshare business was multi generational.
Your grandpa and grandma bought it and gave it to
your parents, and your parents gave it to you, and
it was fully paid off.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
And nobody wants to go to the same place over
and over again.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Well, and that's why I ended up having places all
over the world and had my own exchange company within
my company, because I was, you know, the largest in
the world with a worldwide platform. Hilton owns it today
and now they're leveraging back into points, into their hotel platforms,
which gives it much more flexibility. But look some of
those sales and marketing practices, I thought I would not

(55:50):
put up with it. I gave people their money back
because I bought ten broken companies that were one was
totally unfixable, the others popped because of financial reasons. And
I keep people their money back. And I did not
gain the profit on that sale because they were sold improperly,
because I live in that world, because I want happy customers, okay.

(56:13):
And even if we made a mistake, we refunded the money.
We refunded the money. And if somebody I once did
this in Europe as we inherited this large program company
we purchased, I said, if anyone's over seventy five years
old or has become a pensioner and that's a term

(56:35):
in England, right, or they have a medical malady, or
they lost a source of income, let me know. And
we let them out let over three thousand people out
of their contracts, no questions asked. Okay, So I solved
the sins of the father. So I've done that. It's
almost like becoming governor of California and to solve the

(56:56):
sins of the past. But you know what, don't point fingers.
Just get done. So I've done it.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
I'm proven.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
But today, you know the timeshare world, we fought these
resale companies, Oh, those those are scam artists because they
promise you they'll resell your time share and if you
pay an upfront fee of twenty five thirty five hundred dollars,
don't do it. It's a scam. Go to the company

(57:25):
that you bought from and say, you know, we're really
having a difficult time please can you can you work
something out with us or let us out of this.
And I'm telling you, if you go to Hilton, Marriott's
Disney or went to Diamond Resorts, were just now Hilton,
you went to my company, we'd let you out. Oh
you have to call call.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
So that's what you're saying, is that the timeshare industry
that's left, if it's run by Marriott or Hilton, it's
a little more, it's a little more on the up
and up these days.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
Well I always read it that way. And the greatest
compliment I had and my CFO got really upset. Marriott
copied my Wall Street deck and he was so upset
he goes, they copied our deck. It's our improper propriety
information that I said, David, it is like the greatest
trophy in the world. The greatest compliment is when a

(58:18):
worldwide company like Marriott Lead red Man and copies your material.
That's a trophy, that's a prideful day. And that's what
I believe in All tides all you know, rising tides
lift all boats, Chuck, I'm good with that.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
What Kamala Harris came to you and said, look, I
want to run for governor and I want your help.
What would you say, I'd say, you're not ready for
prime time?

Speaker 2 (58:46):
Like I told her May twenty eight, twenty nineteen, when
she called me, it was the one year anniversary of
my dad's death. Poor timing. Obviously she didn't know a customer.
It was a good day to call me, but she did,
and I was I had already talked to Senator Klobucher
and Pete Putacheg and I really enjoyed those folks and
was supportive of them. And I told her she wasn't

(59:08):
ready for prime time. She hung up with me the
last I'm gonna talk to her, So if she calls
me again, this will be interesting. So you were that
direct with her? Yeah, I'm always directed with everybody. I'm candid,
I am who I am.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
What was her pitch?

Speaker 2 (59:28):
Same? Remember, yeah, same old nonsense, scripted words salad, like,
what the hell you're talking about? Kind of stuff like
I like, I swear uck.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
She I'm guessing that it sounds like if she announces tomorrow,
you're not dropping out.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
No, I told you I know what to give her
as an appetizer, either regular or nacho cheese de ritos,
and then a big glass bowl filled with letters locked
together in the form of words clear bowl, that's pretty.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
That's a that's a shot. You said he didn't want
to take too many shots.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
That's a shot. It's not a shot. I'm just staying
the obvious. Could you explain to me what she's talking about.
You're a smart guy. You're a smart guy. I really
I admire you. I will say this. I will say this.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
My thesis, my thesis on her is that she's got
too many voices she listens to. She's too many voices
giving her advice.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Good. That's not that's not what a leader is. Leaders lead.
Leaders lead. They should listen. They should listen, or you
could listen, but you've got to make age a decision.
You don't listen to the last person to talk to you. Okay,
leaders have experienced leadership. Signed the front of the jack
she has done neither one. Oh she went to the
border once. I bet I could talk about visa policy

(01:00:48):
more than she would ever understand. Okay, and look, this
is for the people's.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
Probably running, isn't she much more and more likely? No?

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
Look, look they have a disease, Chuck, they have a disease.
They don't know when to leave the room. Who is they?
All of career politicians in general, career politicians and even
some business people. You got to know when to exit
stage right or left. There are meetings that I would

(01:01:28):
go to that I told myself out of because it
was inappropriate. I knew it was bad timing, bad place,
Maybe it was a bad mood, but I wasn't the
appropriate person for the meeting to get the best result
for the team and the guests. Being self aware, So look,
I'm not I got no vanity in this this hard work.
I mean, it's none of my bucket.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
And you're ready for the arrows. I mean, people are
going to come at you get my personal life. You
know it's going to put you on the only fans business.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
Oh yeah, you know what, juck. Guess what? Yeah? I
got bullseyed, I got extored. I didn't guess why. I
don't get extorted and you never will on my watch,
neither any other California because I got brass balls. Guess what.
That individual was a serial extorter and just ran into
the wrong person who's principled. I got all my I
think she assumed you just pay her off like everyone else.

(01:02:18):
So guess what. No, I did not pay one dollar
to her nor to any attorneys. I got all my
stuff back, and I got an apology letter. Go listen
to the Daily Beast. It was read online, read on
air because during the interview like, no, he didn't get
an apology letter. I'm like, yeah, sure I did. I'll
read to you, and they were like, oh my god,
you did. Yeah. No, no, Chuck, I am not one

(01:02:39):
read my press lepers. I am a Papa bear. I'm
ninety nine percent love. I have one percent. Don't mess
with me nor my family. And you mess with my
family or friends, You're going to see a side of
me that will protect till the end. I will fight.
I am the commander general, and I'm the front line.

(01:03:02):
I am not afraid to pick up that bayonet and charge.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
Well, that sounds like Harry Reid. He just wasn't as
vocal as you are.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
But but well, let's seems a silent assassin. I'm assassin. Well,
yea assassin. I'm an assassin with Bravano. But I am
the son of Harry Reid and Prep and I have
the financial acumen of Mike broken.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
I assume after the legal trouble. Yeah, you're putting that, Yeah, of.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
Course, No, I'm talking about he gave me my business degree.
I know. I mean, look, I'm still old enough to remember.
Don't kick that shot at Mike because you know what
what what he went to what he went to jail
for his commonplace today?

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
No, you're not wrong, You're not wrong. And he and
he paid his restitution. Okay, but yeah, but yeah, you know, look,
I will defend my family, and.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
I will tell you this. Some people get bum wraps
and they suck it up.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
I fight.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
I fight.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
It sounds like that's what you think is missing in
the Democratic Party, not the fighters.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
They don't know how to play in the sandbox dirt.
Now do you have high expectations for Joe Biden or not? Well,
you know, I was told that he was going to
come to the center and he didn't. He got pulled
to the left. Yeah, because I knew that man in
his senatorial career and respected his work, even Receiver Shetty,

(01:04:34):
it just became tone deaf. I used to work with
Steve Shetty, and it's not the guy a new way
back when I don't know what happens. So they started
believing their own bullshit. I mean, it is what it is.
And if you don't listen to your customers and become
insular and in an echo chamber, you're only listening to yourself.

(01:04:57):
If you don't win this race, what is your best
explanation for it? Are all the people want the definition
of insanity expecting a different result by doing the same things.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
So if you don't get if, you're not able to
get into the top two. And I just love California
system because I think if you were running at a
traditional primary, you'd have no chance.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
Oh, set, you are so right. I wouldn't even do it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
I would do it chunk right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
No, I know you have.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
I think your opportunity is sort of with disgrountled Democrats, Independents,
and maybe Republicans who realize that a Republican can't win statewide.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
I think is that your Is that your your sort
of your group, that's the cases. Yes, no, and we
are very sober about this and look at it. I
mean look during the fires, I first of all, I
did not go on air because I don't politicize disasters.
I rolled up my sleeves and I you know, got
in the street and delivered water and voaching bars and

(01:05:58):
talk to people and just tried to help. And I
continue too with Seanpenn and the likes, with Core and Alta,
Dina and Palisades. And I've become an expert insurance. I
really understand gap issues, rebuilding hard and costs because I'm
a builder. Remember I'm a builder, so I have done
this work. I understand law, I understand insurance. And I

(01:06:22):
stopped fundraising like everyone else because I'm not going to
ask people for money and I didn't want a fundraise.
We did some till the end of the year, and
we raised. We raised like a million dollars quickly. And
then I wanted to test everything again, Chuck, to see
if there was a pathway and see what the people
think of California. And there's a pathway. Twenty seven percent

(01:06:45):
are very supportive, very fifty one percent are somewhat supportive.
So just there's a there there. Let us get out
and let people hear our message, let them meet me,
let me earn their trust, Chuck, and I'm in it
to win it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
If Rick Caruso gets in, you guys are going to
be chasing the same.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
We Look, we'll both kill each other if he does that.
He was going to go spend a lot of money.
Nor I'll do I'll watch him spend a lot of
money because we both are going to die.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
So you do acknowledge that if he gets in, the
two of you can't. Yeah, it's cannibalism. I've been told
by Look, yeah, there's no fool now. I don't know
if he gets it. I went to high school with him,
he was a senior. I was in ninth grade. Okay,
you've written him. If you've already given him a fundraising
check for his campaign for mayor.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
I know he should know. And by the way, he'd
be a great mayor. And I'd love to work side
by side with him.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
Look, everybody whispering in his ear wants him to run
for governor.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
Chuck. It's a dream team. If if he runs for mayor,
we have Hawkman we've got Laurie, myself and him. California
is a new place. If he runs for governor, he
will not win. I will not win. And is it
a standoff?

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
You won't get out for him and he won't get
out for you, vice versa.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
Buck No, all right, No, I beat him in speech
of eight when I was in ninth grade. I'll just like,
just watch him drain some dollars and you know, if
he wants to be that vain and not already play
the chess game in his head. Okay, seriously, he's a

(01:08:30):
smart guy. He inherited money. I had to earn my money.
It's different, you know, generationally, but look, we went to
the same school. He's a great guy. He does a
good thing. He's not an operator. He hasn't fixed broken,
he builds new. It's totally different skill set. And he
has not worked federally, nor state nor local. I mean,

(01:08:52):
they'll say that he's been appointed some local commissions. But
it's different when you're doing federal government, and it's different
when you're doing state government. I've been studying sick teen months, Chuck,
I've invested sixteen months of learning. Talk to you about
just every major proposition in the state. So you know, look,
if he wants to do it, God bless him. If
Miss Harris wants to do it, God bless her. I'm

(01:09:13):
staying in my lane doing nothing, keep my head down
and worrying about the customers California. And I know that
it's going to be a fun ride because I'm having
fun every day.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
Yeah, and that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
Look, I mean, I don't know what to tell you, because.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
I can look, you're the best. You're the as I
joked with my friend Lee and Caldwell who did the
piece on you and Puck, you're the best copy in
the race, and that's that's usually step one and succeeding.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
Well. I thank you, I'm great. I'm grateful for that comment.
I'm honored by that comment. I humblieve and look, I
will roll up my sleeves. But you know, you can't
do what others like having their mind to do. I
just have only one goal in my mind is to
make California the bully pulper of the United States, to
fix what's broken, to make it affordable, livable, and workable.

(01:10:05):
And the results will prove that. I'm experienced. I feel comfortable.
I don't need training wheels day one. I can drive
the car. I choose good teams, I know where to go.
So it's not it's not like Arnold, you know, it's different.
It's like Arnold maybe a little more experienced. And I,

(01:10:29):
with all due respect to him, I'm not really I'm
not going to back.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
You know, if he jumped into this race tomorrow, he'd
be the front runner, wouldn't he.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
Who Arnold?

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
Yeah, he tried to run for another two terms. Another term.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
Yeah, but you know, but you know, he's older and
I see him and we work together with that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
Oh, I don't think he wants to go through the
personal stuff again and all that business.

Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
So I don't think he do. It's great life and
you know his his children are fantastic, I know I
know his. But I do think his governorship is aged,
is aging better? Yeah, you know, but we're having a
good time. Shock, I mean you are.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
I mean that's the thing, and that's that's what the
battle sometimes, and I want everyone to feel that that
that riz that vibe yeah, I said riz and you
said vibes. That's my only skepticism. I buy your theory
that basically, hey, you know, at the party needs a
little bravado. The party needs a little Trump. The only
thing is what if people are so burned out on

(01:11:30):
Trump that they don't want that personality again? Do you
at all fear that that by twenty six he his
bravado has sort of ruined it for people like yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
You know what, God help us. If we go to
the boomerang back to Harris, we're dla that way. We're
falling off a physical cliff right now. Well, there's got
to be something in the hard metal.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
And I'm the hard battle.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
I'm not the hard right, I'm not the hard left.
I'm the hard middle. I just have bravado in the
hard middle. And nobody's had bravado in the hard middle.
And by the way, Cruso is Cruso Republican, a Democrat
or an independent? What is it?

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
And you think that's part of his problem. He's got
an identity crisis, huh.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
Because you always have to be who you are, you know, No,
Rick is nice guy. Rick is a liberal Republican. That's
who Rick is. That's all his friends are. Go. Look
who works with him, Mike Murphy, Joe Lonsdale. Come on,
you are who you hang out with, right politically, that's true. Politically, socially, Chuck,

(01:12:38):
it is true. You are who you hang out with.
He's a liberal Republican, that's cool. He's a palm beach guy.
He's a yacht guy San Diego. Huh, he's a who's
got a bigger yacht.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
This is what I mean is whatever happened to this race,
whatever happens in this race. Uh, you're a reason for
people to be paying it, attention to it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
It's going to be fun and you know what, it's
going to be a good debate for the state of California.
It's not going to be boring.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
Ultimately, we get everyone's attention and we get people involved
because we got to do this together. I can't do
this loan, we can't do it alone. We need to
do it together. Well, I appreciate the time. Thanks Ben,
Thanks right, Thank you, Steve, Bye bye. Well.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
I hope you enjoyed that interview. I told you Steve
Klubek's care get a clue.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (01:13:39):
The puns right themselves. The point is, what incentive does
he have to drop out? If Kamala Harris gets in,
what incentive does Katie Porter have to drop out? She's
got no other races to run for. What incentive does
Antonio Vierre Goz I have to drop out? Now? The
upside for Kamala Harris is that the more the more,
the merrier for her right, she will get one of
those top two spots. But they're still going to be

(01:14:00):
a second candidate in there. And if the second candidate
is somebody to her left, like Katie Poorr, She'll be fine.
But if the second candidate is someone slightly to her
right or running more as an independent, and we still
have the potential for Rick Caruso to get into this thing.
And you heard how what Klubec thinks of Rick Caruso.
Thinks he'd make a great mayor terrible governor. That strikes

(01:14:21):
me as Klubec realizes he can't. He gets no traction
if somehow Rick Caruso gets into this thing. The point is,
I'm just going to tell you now, I'm not a Californian,
you know this. I'm a Floridian. But I think California
politics is going to have some incredible intrigue in twenty
twenty six. And let me just say I'm there for it.

(01:14:42):
It's going to be a good time. A few other
little notes here. You may have seen some news that
I have another show. If you will, what more could
you want then, Chuck Todd on YouTube. Right, well, check
out a new thing also for independent journalists called new
SPHEREO s p H E r E. It's an app.

(01:15:03):
It's basically similar to substack, but a bit more visual.
We got a lot of terrific international journalists out there again,
independent journalists, they own their own content. We're all in
this together on this app. I'm going to be doing
a Sunday evening program for them on the Newsphere app.
I'm looking forward to it. You know, it's a it's
going to be you know, the one hallmark of the

(01:15:26):
show is going to be this, nobody's ever going to
be in a box, okay, you know where this is
one of those cases where we're going to it's going
to be in person conversations that you're going to be
going to be a witness to. So I think it'll
be a nice little pallette cleanser if you will, not
only for what I'm I'm doing on a day to
day basis with you guys here on audio and visual

(01:15:46):
and on YouTube, but also for sort of how the
Washington conversation space works, so I'm looking forward to that.
I hope you check out Newsphere again. Independent journalists all
over the world some I think there's nobody who is
going to have a better set of international journalists than
Newsphere is. So if you really want to keep track

(01:16:07):
of hotspots around the world in particular, you know, we'll
do our best at Locke in Washington for our friends
at Newsphere. But I think I think you're going to
get You'll feel you'll get a lot out of it.
I promise you that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
All right, let's do a little last chuck as chuck.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
First question comes from Bill C from Mountville, Pennsylvania. You know,
had it said Bill C from Westchester County, New York,
I might have thought it was that Bill See, but
it is not that Bill C. Unless he's got a
place in Mountville, Pennsylvania. He writes, this big fan of
the new podcast guide to hear you express some more
thoughts and opinions. I've suspected you've privately held. It's an

(01:16:49):
interesting way of putting it. Here's my question. I'm one
hundred percent in favor of your solution to fixing Congress
by making it more local. By making it larger. Colleges
and universities brag about their teacher to student ratio for reason.
I remember reading in Arthur Slessinger up ed arguing for
the idea of non renewable six year terms of office
for the executive although Slushnger argues against it. I've long

(01:17:10):
thought this would be a great step forward making the
executive branch more efficient and effective. Do you think this,
along with your congressional expansion idea, could make a big difference.
You know, it's interesting. I did a speech in front
of some folks visiting Washington earlier Wednesday morning, and somebody
asked me this very question about the six year term.
Should we have one six year term? Look, you know

(01:17:34):
that's been an idea that's brought up in Virginia. We
don't allow our governors to seek there's a one term limit.
We have two men. We have all these ex governors
with nothing to do. They go around, right, we have
a million of them here in Virginia, And there's been
some thought what if you had one six year term. Look,
I still think you'd have your lane duck status and
you'd still have your your different things. But I you know,

(01:17:58):
if you were doing all of these other fixes, including
what I would like to have, which is to take
away presidential appointment authority for for the UH, for the
Department of Justice, try to create more of a federal
reserve type of appointment system there where there'd be five
year terms, if you will, for sort of the top four.
If it was part of a whole series of reforms

(01:18:19):
that try to depoliticize some things, including intelligence, including the
rule of law, throw in that I could accept the
six year the one six year term. I just think
that the that the voters ought to be able to
say no to a president that they don't like them
after four years, right, So I think that that's this

(01:18:40):
idea that it would be just you'd have no recourse
other than the impeachment mechanism, which we I think have
shown is very difficult to make work. But I could,
you know, I could get behind it. I again, i'd
rather have a voter check on the executive once during
during an attempt on this. But at this point, once

(01:19:00):
you've put in the two term limit, what's the difference
between one six year term and two four year terms?
It it becomes semantics. I will say this, and you
talk to You talk to former presidents and they'll tell
you this, it takes two years to figure out the job. Right.
It's that way with governor too. This is why drives

(01:19:20):
the Virginia governor's crazy. It's like just when they're finally
getting the hang of the job, they have to give
it up. At least with president, just when you're getting
a hang of the job, you have to run for
reelection and improve you have a handle on this job.
So but you know, I'm not I'm not definitive on
this enough to truly say yes or no. I could

(01:19:42):
buy it if it went with other things. My gut, though,
is I want to have at least one voter check
at some point on a president. All right, The next
question comes from Adamo, doesn't say from parts unknown. Back
in one of my many college poly PSI courses, we
did some work with polling and how certain voting blocks
also watched the same TV shows, among many things. So

(01:20:04):
in one case, people who watched Doctor Quinn medicine women
tended to vote Democratic, people who watched Frasier tended to
vote Republican, and people who watch Friends were evenly split.
What funny are odd things like this have surprised you
or you found strange or interesting through the years on
what Democrats Republicans tended to prefer in non political things.
Ah boy, go back to some of my favorite data
downloads from my early Meet the Press years. I used

(01:20:26):
to love doing this data download. My friend Dante Chini,
who's a terrific analyst and demographer, does a lot of
work out of Michigan State. You'll hear him on this
podcast quite frequently over the next year and a half,
I promise you this. He and I used to have
a lot of fun noting, going back and forth noting
these things. So, for instance, in sports golf, viewers of

(01:20:46):
golf program viewers of golf more likely to be Republican.
That probably doesn't surprise you. Baseball Lean's republican, basketball, Leans Democrat, hockey,
Lean's republican football is the ultimate bipartisan sport. You know why,
because everybody loves the NFL. College football has a slight
right lean to it, which makes sense because where are

(01:21:08):
the most popular fan bases, Mostly in the South and
in the Midwest. Both of those areas lean lean Republican.
On the TV show front, I remember, you know, the
first time what really jumped out of me. When we
were really doing this micro targeting is if you remember
the show Duck Dynasty.

Speaker 2 (01:21:26):
Look, you brought up Doctor.

Speaker 1 (01:21:27):
Quinn Medicine Woman, so clearly you're in your forties at least,
because if you were doing that in college.

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
I think Doctor Quinn.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
Medicine Woman is at least an early off show, if
not late nineties, has the whiff of CBS to it.
I'm not I think that was an old CBS show anyway.
The Duck Dynasty, I remember it was one of those
shows that like barely registered a rating point in Los
Angeles and had super Bowl This is for its debut

(01:21:54):
episode during the height of its popularity, and had super
Bowl level audience numbers in Lafayette media market in Louisiana. Now,
obviously they had a regional appeal. It also was a
program that leaned right. But I remember in the television space,
my favorite nugget you were asking for, my favorite one

(01:22:15):
that was not in the sports world was Walking Debt.
The single most bipartisan show was The Walking Debt. Democrats
an equal amount of Democrats and Republicans. It was in
its heyday when it was peak, when people when it
was when you were watching it on AMC before you
were figuring out how to stream it on Netflix, right

(01:22:37):
when it was at its peak. It was that show
that drew from both sides, so it was a very
popular show to advertise on. And it actually makes sense, right.
I think you had your Republican your conservatives like the
self reliance, the survival instincts of it. I think the
left saw it as you know, the ability to remake civilizations,

(01:22:59):
the utopia part of it. However you want to look
at it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
I always thought that's why I enjoyed the show.

Speaker 1 (01:23:03):
I felt like I was sort of watching how how
essentially humans invented the idea of politics. I always like
to say we invented politics so we could settle disputes
without violence, and Walking Dead reminded us that, hey, a
lot of disputes you were settled with violence before we
ever figured out how to do them in some sort

(01:23:25):
of rational way that didn't include violence, which we now
today call politics.

Speaker 2 (01:23:29):
All right, I'll do one more.

Speaker 1 (01:23:30):
Question, and then I got to go, in case you're wondering,
I got to go finish a meal here for my family,
finish making a meal.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
Last question comes from Nicole m.

Speaker 1 (01:23:40):
Again, parts of unknown, but if you're willing to tell
me where you're from, I'd love to to say that.
I view myself as unaffiliate. So I appreciated that your
interviews include both Republicans and Democrats. Today you've interviewed more
Democrats and Republicans. Feel free to fact check me I have.
I want. My goal is to over time that it
levels out. But let's just say I think Democrats have

(01:24:03):
a bit more time on their hands to talk to
me these days the Republicans do. Here's the question, do
you find it harder to get Republicans for an interview
out of fear they will answer something wrong? Thinking about
Lisa Murkowski's warning from a few weeks ago about fear
of retaliation. If you could choose one person interview on
your podcast, who would it be. Well, look, Lisa Murkowski
is my white whale. I've been trying to get her
come on Meet the Press. She does not do national interviews.

(01:24:28):
She's very careful with her media. But I'm hoping that
this format, longer form thirty to forty five minutes is
a better space for someone like her. I hope she
will take me up on it, because I think that's
what I'm trying to provide here, and you've is that
in a thirty to forty five minute when you're having
an intimate conversation where you're listening with your headphones, you

(01:24:49):
know you're not going to have this type of screaming
matches that sometimes take place when people are talking to
each other in remote or performative crap that you see
on cable tis in primetime these days. And so that
the more I think people see that that's what we're
doing here, I think the more popular this format is

(01:25:10):
going to be for the serious people in politics. So
you know that's but you're not wrong. Right. In the
Trump era in general, it is tough to get a
Republican to come on because of fear, because they've they've
got I had one senator admit the following to me.
I'm not gonna say which one was an off the record.
He says, you know somebody who used to do my
show a lot then stopped doing it. And I said,
how come you know? Come on? You know I don't bite,

(01:25:32):
and he goes, he goes, you ask very fair questions,
he says, but it just whatever answer I give, I'm
gonna have somebody chewing at me, and he goes, it's
a lot easier for me to manage my politics if
I do less media. So they just do less media.
And this is what's unhealthy, is you have a lot
of elected officials just not being transparent about what they're thinking,
what they're doing, and we're all losing because of this.

(01:25:56):
But it's true, I mean, the Trump protectors on social media,
just by the way Obama had it. If you had
the Kamala had her own hive, right, Biden had his protectors,
They're they're vicious and and I think particularly on the
Trump side, you know, if you're out of line, you
could you might be out of your career, might be over.

(01:26:17):
And so I do think it is. It has made
it a lot tougher for some and so that's why
I'm more likely to have formers as my Republican guests
than currents. If you will, right, it's a lot. I
think former Republicans feel freer, they have less to lose.
So that's that's a bit of a challenge. But for

(01:26:38):
my Republican friends out there that are listening, the elected
official friends that I know do listen to this show.
People want to hear from you. This isn't I don't bite.
And at the end of the day, you know, as
the phrase says, the truth still set you free. Don't
be afraid of it. Come on in. I'd love to

(01:26:58):
have you all right. Right with that, I'm going to
take a twenty four hour break. We'll upload again in
twenty four hours. But until then, I hope you, hope
you like subscribe by the way of a new Substack
newsletter every Tuesday. It's going to drop, So do take
a look at that. Actually you've been listening to the podcast,
you'll enjoy how we took some of the lessons we've

(01:27:22):
taken from our democratic guests recently and turned it into
a fascinating analysis piece on Beyond.

Speaker 2 (01:27:29):
The Pod, my free Substack newsletter. And with that, I
got no more plugs.

Speaker 1 (01:27:35):
I'll see you next time.

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