August 19, 2024 • 39 mins
Lieutenant General Sami Sadat, the last commander of the Afghan army before the country fell to the Taliban, joins Tudor to discuss the withdrawal from Afghanistan and the consequences of the Taliban takeover. They discuss the transformation of Afghanistan over the past 20 years, the political challenges faced by the Afghan Republic, the funding and support received by the Taliban from Pakistan and Arab countries, the impact of the release of prisoners from Guantanamo Bay, and the similarities between the Taliban and the Iranian regime. They also talk about the future of Afghanistan and the need for political and technical support to fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. The Tudor Dixon Podcast is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network. For moe visit TudorDixonPodcast.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I know you all
have heard me talk about some of the things that
Kamala Harris has said in the past, and I think
in one of her last interviews, which was around April,
she was talking about the withdrawal from Afghanistan and she
was asked by Dana Bash were you the last person
in the room? And she said yes, I was, And
(00:22):
she said, and you're satisfied with the result, and she said, yes,
I am. And I think that most Americans feel like
Afghanistan was a betrayal to our troops and a betrayal
to the people that we had partnered with in Afghanistan
for so many years. And I know that the person
with me today also has many thoughts on the withdrawal
(00:44):
from Afghanistan, and that is Lieutenant General Sammy Sadat. He
was the last commander of the Afghan Army before the
country fell to the Taliban, and now he leads the
Afghan United Front from Afar in the United Kingdom after
he was forced to flee his home country. Sammy, thank
you so much for joining me.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I'm very happy to be in your show for today.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Well, I appreciate it. I know that you've recently written
a book about your experience that's coming out, I believe
in September. I just want to talk to you a
little bit, even going back as far as Barack Obama.
Obviously this wasn't a surprise to you. The United States
wanted to step away, or at least withdrawal draw to
a certain point from Afghanistan. But tell us a little
(01:30):
bit about what you saw over the years before that.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Thank you, tutor. So the book is out. It was
initially planned for September, but then it got released on
the fifth of August. So oh wonderful. Okay, good, yeah,
thank you. In two thousand and one, the Taliban ruled
most of Afghanistan except for northern Afghanistan. Northeastern Afghanistan was
(01:56):
still controlled by the previous Afghanistan United Front from Badakshan,
whereby they were fighting as an opposition to the Taliban.
When nine to eleven happened, then the Americans came and
partnered with the Afghan United Front in the north and
started sweeping through the country. The Taliban fell very quickly.
(02:19):
There was very very limited collateral damage to the civilian
life and property, and the operation was very successful and
very quickly, Afghanistan changed from a very isolated, very difficult
and from an oppressive regime to an open regime to
(02:41):
a nation that started building itself, started healing itself, and
started connecting with the rest of the world. This was
an incredible journey. This was a transformation for our society
that is still very vivid and it's very clear not
only the infrastructure was rebuilt during the the twenty years,
(03:01):
but also the society has completely transformed into a new society.
That said, there were challenges. The war had continued to
be a challenge for the lives of the Afghan soldiers,
the Americans and the rest of the coalition troops. However,
it never stopped us. We continued to build our country,
(03:23):
We continue to invest on our society, and overall, in
the last twenty years, and new generation of Afghans came
to being. Afghans went around the world and tended some
of the best military, security, political science, and economic colleges.
(03:44):
They came back to their country and they started building
the society. One of the difficulties that we could never
solve was the political problem. Of course, after two thousand
and one, a new system of governance was adopted in Afghanistan,
and this was a very liberal democratic system, and in
(04:05):
many ways this was something after thirty years off war,
so it was not very easy for warring parties different
internal and external, to come together and work together. Nonetheless,
it had worked. However, there were constant political trouble which
(04:27):
continued to keep the Afghan Republic weak internally but also
questionable externally.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
So just to clarify, you still had people, there was
still conflict within the country, but the culture had really
changed to being more almost more toward the Western culture,
where women were allowed to attend school and women had
more rights.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
It was just.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
A it was I think that's what the American people
don't really understand. It went from being a very oppressive
rule to a little bit more Western. So would that
be accurate.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Oh, not a little bit, but just very open society.
I mean people who served in Afghanistan, traveled to Afghanistan
will attest to that. Democracy is not Western for us,
democracy is an indigenous tradition of our country since hundreds
of years ago. The trouble began in nineteen seventy nine
(05:24):
when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, whereby then there was
a leftist oppressive regime, the Communists. Then we hosted the
Communists again in partnership with the US, and after the
Communists the country was so racked that we could never
stand on our feet again because during the war with
(05:45):
the Russians in eight years, we lost two million people
and six million Afghans left their country. So at the
time we had eighteen million population, so half of our
population were killed or displaced forcibly. The entire infrastructure was destroyed,
so coming back from that is very difficult. I don't
(06:07):
want to delve into that, but just want to give
you a perspective.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Well, when the Taliban came in, who was funding them?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
When the Taliban came in, there were two funding streams.
The first funding steam came from Pakistan. The government of
Pakistan wanted to topple the Mujahidin regime as we call it.
The other funding source was from the Arab countries, mostly
the Gulf countries, and notably one of the big donors
(06:36):
was probably the biggest donor, was al Qaeda. Osama bin
Laden joined them and then he poured a lot of
money into the Taliban. And remember Taliban or a group
that or only focused on their militancy. They don't deliver services,
they don't spend money on people or infrastructure or other matters.
(06:56):
Whatever money you gave them, they will just use it
for buying web and then supporting their militancy. So it
was effective and it helped them quite a lot. However,
the Taliban never managed to conquer all of the country.
As I mentioned the norder of Afghanistan, there were small
pockets all over Afghanistan from south to west to east
(07:20):
where by resistance was gaining momentum in two thousand and
after that, in two thousand and one, my father fought
in the resistant and we were hopeful that he will
come back. However, when nine to eleven happened, then this
became a chance for Afghans to be released from this
(07:44):
thiss oppressive regime and that's how the Taliban were then
top alled. And so coming back to my point, there
was in the political problem Tudor. It was the Afghan
political problem, but also the US political problem. The US
political problem was that every president that changed every two
(08:05):
three years, there was a new strategy, there was a review.
Then the whole of approach to Afghanistan would have changed.
So there was not a continuous set program fixed on
the outcome based approach instaate. It was sometimes it was sentimental,
other times it was between Republicans and Democrats. Other times
(08:28):
it was between say, oh, there's we have to shift
some assets to Iraq and we have to, you know,
be careful with our allies in the region not to
go into Pakistan and all that. So all of them
actually opened them quite a big opportunity for terrorist groups
like Taliban and al Qaeda to expand and exist and
(08:50):
continue to resist the Afghan system.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
It's very from our standpoint, it's been kind of hard
to follow because you know, we know that we've always
sent people over there and that the goal was always
to come back. And you're right, we do hear the
different perspectives, the Republican and the Democrat perspective. I think
the overall was, you know, at some point we're going
to withdraw. But the withdraw was a disaster, and people
(09:18):
here in the United States are still shocked by how
big of a disaster it was. But we wanted to
hear from your perspective what happened was that were you
prepared at all for what Joe Biden did.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Not at all? The US withdrawal was something that we
didn't oppose. We ultimately wanted the US troops to either
be concised in their bases and background and Kandahar, or
you know, they're welcome to leave the country.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
How because you felt that you were able, you were
going to be able to hold the line if it
was done the right way.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Absolutely, absolutely tutor. So from two thousand and three until
two thousand and four ten, there was an incredible new
Afghan army belt by the United States and Afghan Air Force.
Our special forces were the best in that region. Tehwan
Special Forces. We partnered with NATO, we partnered with Delta Force,
(10:14):
with Navy seals, with like Rangers, some of the best
in the world. And those guys liked us. They're like, yeah,
you're good. You know this is working. In twenty ten,
it was President Obama who announced the withdrawal. Basically he
put the calendar on ice saying that we are leaving.
(10:35):
And so if you're the enemy and you already know
they're leaving no matter what, so you stop fighting, You're like, okay,
you can leave. And then but we prepared ourselves. We
had incredible level of casualties over twenty years we lost
two hundred thousand Afghan soldiers, seventy thousand of them were
(10:56):
only army soldiers, and then the police and other militia
forces as well. Nonetheless, we held the line. We continued
to build and get better and better in the governors,
in the military, in the economics. The trouble began when
the American politicians stopped listening to Afghans and started negotiating
(11:18):
with the Taliban. Twenty eleven, President Obama basically closed Guantanamo
Bay and he took some of the detainees put them
in Dohakatar, and the next day they started negotiating with
their own detainees. We were not happy about it, and
in fact, our president Ahmed Karzai protested as strong as
(11:42):
he could. He's like, this is not right, this will
be giving them lechitimacy. However, the process continued. Unfortunately, it
never stopped, and during President Trump, Adoha Dil was signed
with the Taliban and the Taliban were given political village Timnessee,
and the deal effectively turned the United States from being
(12:05):
an effective partner to the Afghan forces into a passive
observer watching US and the Taliban. You know, do the
dog fight that was not a significant blow enough. Then
the ammunition shipments and support for Afghan Air Force has stopped,
and the contractors that maintained some of our sophisticated kit,
(12:29):
which were American kids, also were ordered to leave Afghanistan
because this was a port of ada deal that the
Taliban demanded not only US soldiers but also contractors should leave.
And using American kit, we couldn't go to anywhere else
to get contractors or ammunition or new weaponry. It was
(12:50):
all Americans.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
So I think that's something important for our listeners to understand,
is that this is the power that America has to
keep peace. And that's why we've said for so many
years it is peace through strength. It's not necessarily sending soldiers,
but it's making sure that the people on the ground
are prepared and the people on the ground are in control.
(13:12):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon podcast. I think you mentioned something very
interesting when you talk about the release of the prisoners
at Guantanamo Bay and the closure of that. I don't
think people a lot of people understand that that legitimize
the Taliban, because then they started negotiating with the very
(13:36):
people that had been detained, So to negotiate with the
people that have been detained that you said, these are
the bad guys, we're going to keep them. Then to
have Obama let them go and then have presidents from
then on negotiating with them. Suddenly the Taliban goes from
a terror organization to a government. In the minds of
the people, that's a problem.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
That is accurate tutor. And then towards the end of
President Trump's presidency a plan be emerged because President Trump
was adamant that this is a conditional based agreement and
if the Taliban reached the agreements, were going to come
back after them. The Taliban reached every single though article agreement.
(14:20):
They said in the agreement that they won't attack major cities.
They did. They said they will cut their ties with
al Qaeda. They never cut their ties with Al Kaieda.
They said that they will work with Afghan government and
become part of the Afghan governments. They never did that.
They said they will be port, they will talk to
the Afghan government's negotiation team. They never actually talked to
(14:44):
our negotiation team. And they also promised that they're not
going to attack American soldiers. And now this last thing.
The American soldiers were in their basis, there was no
way that the Taliban could attack. And because before getting
to the American base there was like seven layers of
Afghan security to begin with. And many people in the
(15:07):
US don't understand that. They think that the two thy
five hundred Americans were defending themselves. That is absolutely wrong.
It was the Afghan forces and these were these guys
were in safe bases. They were not in front lines,
not in you know, in an harms way. Of course,
sometimes they were like indirect fire into the bases from
(15:29):
a far away which didn't have any casualties. So even
if the condition's based approach was still taken seriously, Afghanistan
would never fall into the Taliban. But when President Biden came,
he said, I don't care the consequence. I don't care
what happens. He stopped listening to his generals in Pentagon,
(15:53):
he stopped listening to Cia Hill. He wouldn't even take
the call from our president. So he just absolutely he
made his mind, and then he pulled the plag without
you know, giving us a warning, without you know, adhering
to the agreement that he said. He will adhere and
then Afghanistan rapidly started to be controlled by the Taliban.
(16:20):
In the middle of all of this, it is very
important that when the Taliban were legitimized through the Doha Deal,
countries like Qatar started paying hundreds of millions of dollars
to the Taliban. Pakistan uh started training them in thousands.
Iran started giving them like rockets, artillery shells, artillery pieces, snipers,
(16:47):
and they also started training.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Why what do they expect from the Taliban? I mean,
you you made the point that this is not a government,
this is a military group. They are solely focused on military,
not on people. I've taken over. I mean when you
talk about the takeover, this was a matter of days
before they took over completely. And I I would like
your opinion on that too, because I think that the
(17:12):
Americans and even the soldiers that were there said, hey,
we had this setup so that the Taliban couldn't come in,
But the way we left the forces in a situation
where you couldn't fight as well as we had thought.
But maybe it was Maybe it was because there was
so much money that had been sunken into the Taliban
(17:34):
army that we weren't aware of if that is coming
from Pakistan, if that's coming from Iran, what is the
end goal giving them that much money and that much power.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
That is a very good question. Iran always wanted to
kick the Americans out of Afghanistan. Pakistan always wanted the
Americans out of Afghanistan, and in this they were united.
Pakistan had always provided I Haven training and support to
the Taliban up until the fall of the Republic. When
(18:06):
the Americans made sure that they're leaving. The Afghan government
was seen as a legacy of the Americans, as a
lynchpin connecting Washington. So Iran wanted to make sure that
this doesn't exist. Furthermore, one of the other things that
was horrifying for Iran was our governance system. This was
(18:27):
a liberal democracy. People could vote, women were free. It
was very different than Iran. So they got scared. And
Afghans have a huge influence in our region. Whatever happens
in Afghanistan, it affects Central Asia, it affects Iran, it
affects Pakistan. So they got scared. Is like, okay, this
(18:47):
is inspiring our people to do the same. So it
was a threat to their regime.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Because I think people don't understand that Iran in the
seventies was very westernized. Women could go to school, women
could wear whatever they wanted, They were very free to
do as they please and that and then you have
the Iranian regime who's there now, and they took over
and changed completely, and so that's what they believe. Everybody
(19:14):
in the region should also then feel the same. Should
treat women the same, should treat people the same. I
mean not obviously I'm focused on women, but the families
are not treated well. This is not a regime for
the people, as you said, this is a military regime
that likes to cause chaos and terror across the globe.
And so I think from the perspective of Americans, we've said, well,
(19:35):
what does this withdrawal look like for the face of terror?
Because if the Taliban gains so much ground and they
have so much money, and they have now this land
in Afghanistan, do we go right back to where we
were on September tenth? You know, are we just being
naive about the fact that we fought this for twenty
(19:56):
years and now this cat is out of the bag
again and they have total control. I think that's a
concern of the American people. And then you mentioned something
else you said when Obama came out and said we're
going to withdraw, we want to get out of Afghanistan.
Is that when Iran and Pakistan started to say, okay,
(20:16):
we're going to send tens of millions of dollars to
the Taliban to train them.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
So has it been to Washington. Policy always played a
role in how Iran and Pakistan and other countries would
behave in Afghanistan. The strategic deterrence was removed by President
Bobama when he said we're leaving. So Pakistan and Iran
saw and opportunities like, oh wow, if they're leaving, then
(20:41):
of course they're going to leave a government behind. There
will be Afghan government, and you know, we need to
give them a leadinos as they walk out, and also
make sure that the next regime that comes in is
friendly to us. If you see today, compare the Taliban
and Iran, there is incredible resemblance. The Taliban have a
(21:02):
supreme leader, Iran has a supreme leader. Taliban rule through
fanatical religious perspective. Iran rules through fanatical religious perspective. Taliban
think they're the center of gravity for Sunni Muslim and terrorism,
and Iran claims that they're the center of gravity for
(21:26):
Shia fanatical terrorism. And Iran's policy is to spread Shiaism,
their sect of you know, Islamic thinking, into the world.
The Taliban's foreign policy is to export Sunni fanatical terrorism
(21:48):
into the rest of the world through al Qaeda, through
other organizations that you see. So these are these are
the same in many ways, and they would like to
work together. Be because the Taliban today or part of
the Iran's access of resistance against the US, al Qaeda
is training in Afghanistan, and Iran is using al Qaeda
(22:10):
against the US basis in Middle East and in Africa.
And in fact, one of the things that occurred was
an incredible thing is when Talban took over Afghanistan. Iranians
had reevaluated their policy towards Al Kaida before they had
liison and coordination with al Qaeda, but they took it
(22:30):
elevated to the next level. They offered al Kaieda say,
we will pay for your training and money if you
join us in the fight in the Middle East. And
Iran then offered the Taliban and al Qaeda an opportunity.
They said as we you know, kick the Americans out
of Afghanistan, Let's go after them in the Middle East.
And you know, if we put enough pressure and bring
(22:54):
enough casualty to them, they will leave Middle East. So
if you see after the fall of Afghanistan, the number
of attacks in Iraq, in Syria, in Jordan and elsewhere
has dramatically increased. So this was this was an effort
that was fought in Afghanistan and kept on their knees.
(23:15):
And now you know they have an open hand. Now
Iranians al Kaieda and you know in Taliban can choose
where to attack. The US forces in Africa, Indian Ocean,
in Arab countries, they can choose wherever they want. So
the keeping forces in Afghanistan, with the amount of money
spent in Afghanistan was a peanut compared to what the
(23:39):
US is spending today against terrorism, and what the US
is spending today against terrorism will be a peanut. What
is about to come and where the US would then
would would then't have to engage in a match larger
scale if the US wants to stop major attacks like
(23:59):
nine eleven.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
I think it's very hard for Americans to see this
until they have an attack like nine to eleven, and
you know, the generation now, the newest generation hasn't seen that,
as the newest generation of Afghans have not seen what
they're now living as a lifestyle in Afghanistan. And I
think that's also something critical for especially liberal Americans to understand.
(24:22):
What happened has taken away the rights of so many people,
the rights that we take advantage of, that we just
take for granted that we believe that is central to
everyone's life. Those were just removed. And the insult of
Joe Biden saying to the Taliban will have every last
soldier out by September eleventh, I mean, what was that
(24:45):
that to me? You are insulting the families that lost
people that day. You are insulting every soldier who was
injured or gave his life and their families who survived
without them to fight this war for twenty years. I mean,
it's just shocking to me. I know, for a long
time people have questioned the motives of Barack Obama and said,
(25:09):
you know, why did he even do all this? Why
has he seemed to be a champion of this side.
But Joe Biden to do this on September eleventh. It's
just so sick.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
It is it is. I don't understand the tutor and
I was shocked when I heard it, and I was like,
did is this what ben Laden wants? Or is this
what Biden wants? Because I'm confused ben Laden wants to
celebrate this state double double impact basically nine to eleven,
(25:44):
twenty years after another victory. I mean, I don't know
who who came up with this idea, but most definitely
this was something that ben Laden and mul Omar would
be celebrating in their graves when they heard it. It's like, okay,
have another nine to eleven, and this is also a
victory for US. There are many things I don't understand.
(26:07):
One of the other things to door I don't understand
is President Biden's very vindictive agenda to ours Afghanistan. He
hates Afghanistan, he hates Afghans. I don't know why we
didn't do anything to him. We partnered with US military
and we partnered with the Americans. We took himend's pride,
(26:28):
and we paid a minis price for being the US partners.
Why Iran and Pakistan and other countries would support our
opposition is because of our partnership with the Americans, and
so we continue to pay a major price in our
region because of being partners with Americans. Personally, I'm paying
(26:49):
a price. Every soldier is paying a price.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Stay tuned for more of my interview with Lieutenant General
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stay tuned. We've got more with Sammy Saddat. After this,
a lot of our military members and servicemen have tried
to bring people with them back to the United States
(28:42):
to keep them safe. You had to leave Afghanistan, and
I know that that's devastating to you, to leave your
home country. That's not what you wanted, certainly, it's not you.
You continue to fight from the sidelines to say we're
going to take it back. We're going to take our
country back. Tell us a little bit about the price
that you and your servicemen paid, so we're paying.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
In Iran, the Afghan security forces or on the only basis, tortured, imprisoned,
deported back into the hands of the Taliban where they
will be shot on the border. In hundreds, in large
numbers in Turkey, the Afghan security forces are arrested and
sent back to Afghanistan to the Taliban where they're shot,
(29:26):
tortured and disabled by the Taliban. Politically, when we started
our effort to mobilize Afghans Afghanistan United Front, mem and
my team members would travel a lot, went to Zbakistan
and they would welcome you, they will talk to you
(29:46):
a little bit, and suddenly they will say like, oh,
we know you are very close to the Americans, so
we have some concerns and you know, how's your relationship
with the CIA. So they immediately think that I just
came from Langley and I have this nefarious agenda for
so they don't trust us. And you know, most definitely
(30:07):
Iranians don't trust those Afghan security forces and politicians that
worked with with Americans. Pakistanis don't trust him. Central Asians,
other Russians obviously, wherever they are, they don't trust him.
I was in Turkey and we started talking to some
of our friends. I got an office, I got some
(30:28):
of my soldiers like, you know, we need to prepare
and go back and free our country. And a couple
of months after I was deported from Turkey, I was
detained and then deported back into Switzerland, where like where
I you know I came from, so in other countries,
(30:51):
as soon as we land, you know, there will be
intelligence officers waiting at the airport and then you know,
taking us on the side, like let's have a coffee,
and then discussion would come back to our relationship with
the Americans, and their concern is very vivid. We come
to America, President Biden doesn't want to talk about Afghanistan.
(31:11):
The administration is completely deaf and blind about what is
happening there. So it is very, very tough. We are
grateful to the American people. We're grateful to the service members.
We are grateful to all those volunteers that stood up
by Afghans on a very very dark day, on a
(31:32):
very difficult day. We saw that and we remain grateful forever.
We're a loyal nation. We're a grateful nation when we
will never forget that. The reason why we want to
work with America is because of those great men and
women who stood by Afghans. If America was only about
President Biden, if America was only how this administration sees us,
(31:54):
we would never be here. We would never talk to
you again even But it's about the American people, It's
about the Afghan people. They're very close. They have a
lot of respect for each other, especially in the military.
We have respect for US military, they have respect for
us and for us. We lost our home. You know,
my soul is still somewhere in Kabul. I'm just a
(32:16):
vessel walking around and trying to find the means to
reconnect with my soul. And for many Afghan young men
and woman, it's true and it's the same. You know,
these are beautiful countries America, Europe, but these are not
our countries. Our countries oppressed. They're under a tyrannical regime
and tyranny must be rejected and tyranny must be fought.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
What does that look like to you for the future,
I mean, you talk about you can't work with di
Biden administration. I assume that that will be the same
if there were a Harris administration. What would you like
to see in the future.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Tudor realready got myself in a lot of trouble by
bashing President Biden. I hope Harras changes if she wents,
and I definitely hope that President Trump changes the policy.
We have a political organization, Afghanistan United Front. We got
a number of Afghan young general officers, young diplomats, governors,
(33:21):
and civil society activists, tribal leaders and others, and we
created a platform whereby this energy could be used collectively
to free our country. Our legal basis for this is
the Constitution of Afghanistan, which was adopted in two thousand
and four, and this is one of the best constitutions
we ever had in our history. We want to bring
(33:44):
back constitutional order in Afghanistan. We want to change the
Taliban regime. We want to kick al Kaeda out of
our country. We don't want Al Qaeda guests. These are
bad people. These are awful people. They have that done
horrendous things in our country and other other countries. We
are gearing up and we're preparing to go and fight.
(34:06):
Right now, we are working on a political legitimacy, which
we have a little bit of political edge intimacy now
that we have Spook spoke around the US and Europe
and other countries. We are looking for technical support and
we have soldiers. We don't need U as soldiers. We
don't want boots on the ground. We need technical and
(34:29):
political support later, after God willing, Afghanistan is free. If
the United States want to take a base two basis,
we are good. We can negotiate and they're welcome to
stay in the basis, but we don't want them to
fight again on the battlefields. If they want to come
(34:50):
for strategic deterrence for China, Iran al Qaeda, I don't know.
I mean, those guys are our enemies as well. I'd
be you would be happy to restart a partnership, But
right now we're looking at a partnership whereby the Afghans
would go and do the fighting and Americans provides support
(35:12):
and we will take care of the American interests. As
I said, we're not ungrateful people.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
So you still have troops on the ground in Afghanistan.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
We have hundreds of thousands of people who will fight
on our behalf, so we don't have lack of lack of.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Well, we are following your story closely, and I want
I think a lot of people don't understand. I think
we watched this from the sidelines. You know, we were
so shocked by September eleventh here in this country, and
we watched George Bush say that we would fight this,
(35:53):
and we sent and it was amazing how immediately people said,
sign me up, I'm going I want to protect our country,
and it really changed. I think the way we viewed
protecting our country for so many years, and we've had
kind of a I guess, a shattered political viewpoint in
(36:14):
the United States. We have two parties that are very
much on edge on a daily basis now, But we
watch this and we don't fully understand what it means
to be controlled by a terrorist regime. And that's why
I find your story so valuable to the American people
to hear your side of it. And I'd like you
(36:34):
to tell us a little bit about your book and
where people can get it so they can understand even more.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Thank you, tutor. So, my book, The Last Commander, you
can get it on Amazon, and it is about the
twenty years of Afghanistan, the war and partners partnerships between
US and Afghan military. I work with CIA for a period.
(36:59):
The spy stories, there is covert operations, there is all
of this is packed up in a simple story narrative.
As I'm speaking to you. I didn't want to write
the conceptual book. I wanted to write a story of
what happened, why it happened, some of the great things
we did, some of the complex operations, the role of
(37:21):
intelligence and how you know intelligence was good, how the
regional countries were getting involved, how we came up with,
you know, different plans and programs, and some of the
success stories that we had of taking out some senior
Al Qaida members, taking out senior terrorists. So anyone in
the military, in the business industry, in the intelligence and
(37:45):
security and if you know they're adventurous young people, they're
starting a new leadership role, they will find this book interesting.
And there's I'm told that there's money less since that
young men and woman that read the book are drawn
and they liked it. I don't want to sound like
(38:07):
someone who's celebrating himself, but.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
No, you should advertise your progress there. Go ahead, it's fine,
tell us we want to hear.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yeah, I got good feedback. They could really really say
this is something that they can use in their life
as they're managing or leading, or you know, they're going
through a period that they're not sure what is how
to make decisions and all that so kind of puts
things on a perspective.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Well, that's what I think we need right now because
we're seeing what's happening in Israel and we know that
the Taliban will also form against Israel. We know that
these are all connected. These terror organizations are all connected,
and that ultimately comes back to us, you know, and
they I think the part that Americans haven't realized is
(38:56):
this ultimately doesn't go away for America. Just walking away
from from Afghanistan doesn't make the Taliban out of sight,
out of minds. That's the mistake we made on September tenth.
And I think we need to recognize that you have
to be aware of where all of these organizations are
at once. But as we're kind of navigating as a country,
what does Ukraine look like? What does Israel look like?
(39:17):
And it gets good to read about another historical battle,
and so I appreciate the fact that you were willing
to come on today, and I encourage people to get
the book. It's called The Last Commander, The Once in
Future Battle for Afghanistan, and we just so appreciate you
coming on. Lieutenant General Sammy Sadat, thank you so.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Much, Thank you, ma'am. I have a great day.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Absolutely, you two, and thank you all for joining us
on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. For this episode and others,
go to Tutor dixonpodcast dot com or the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and join
us next time. Have a blessed day.
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I know you all
have heard me talk about some of the things that
Kamala Harris has said in the past, and I think
in one of her last interviews, which was around April,
she was talking about the withdrawal from Afghanistan and she
was asked by Dana Bash were you the last person
in the room? And she said yes, I was, And
(00:22):
she said, and you're satisfied with the result, and she said, yes,
I am. And I think that most Americans feel like
Afghanistan was a betrayal to our troops and a betrayal
to the people that we had partnered with in Afghanistan
for so many years. And I know that the person
with me today also has many thoughts on the withdrawal
(00:44):
from Afghanistan, and that is Lieutenant General Sammy Sadat. He
was the last commander of the Afghan Army before the
country fell to the Taliban, and now he leads the
Afghan United Front from Afar in the United Kingdom after
he was forced to flee his home country. Sammy, thank
you so much for joining me.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I'm very happy to be in your show for today.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Well, I appreciate it. I know that you've recently written
a book about your experience that's coming out, I believe
in September. I just want to talk to you a
little bit, even going back as far as Barack Obama.
Obviously this wasn't a surprise to you. The United States
wanted to step away, or at least withdrawal draw to
a certain point from Afghanistan. But tell us a little
(01:30):
bit about what you saw over the years before that.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Thank you, tutor. So the book is out. It was
initially planned for September, but then it got released on
the fifth of August. So oh wonderful. Okay, good, yeah,
thank you. In two thousand and one, the Taliban ruled
most of Afghanistan except for northern Afghanistan. Northeastern Afghanistan was
(01:56):
still controlled by the previous Afghanistan United Front from Badakshan,
whereby they were fighting as an opposition to the Taliban.
When nine to eleven happened, then the Americans came and
partnered with the Afghan United Front in the north and
started sweeping through the country. The Taliban fell very quickly.
(02:19):
There was very very limited collateral damage to the civilian
life and property, and the operation was very successful and
very quickly, Afghanistan changed from a very isolated, very difficult
and from an oppressive regime to an open regime to
(02:41):
a nation that started building itself, started healing itself, and
started connecting with the rest of the world. This was
an incredible journey. This was a transformation for our society
that is still very vivid and it's very clear not
only the infrastructure was rebuilt during the the twenty years,
(03:01):
but also the society has completely transformed into a new society.
That said, there were challenges. The war had continued to
be a challenge for the lives of the Afghan soldiers,
the Americans and the rest of the coalition troops. However,
it never stopped us. We continued to build our country,
(03:23):
We continue to invest on our society, and overall, in
the last twenty years, and new generation of Afghans came
to being. Afghans went around the world and tended some
of the best military, security, political science, and economic colleges.
(03:44):
They came back to their country and they started building
the society. One of the difficulties that we could never
solve was the political problem. Of course, after two thousand
and one, a new system of governance was adopted in Afghanistan,
and this was a very liberal democratic system, and in
(04:05):
many ways this was something after thirty years off war,
so it was not very easy for warring parties different
internal and external, to come together and work together. Nonetheless,
it had worked. However, there were constant political trouble which
(04:27):
continued to keep the Afghan Republic weak internally but also
questionable externally.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
So just to clarify, you still had people, there was
still conflict within the country, but the culture had really
changed to being more almost more toward the Western culture,
where women were allowed to attend school and women had
more rights.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
It was just.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
A it was I think that's what the American people
don't really understand. It went from being a very oppressive
rule to a little bit more Western. So would that
be accurate.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Oh, not a little bit, but just very open society.
I mean people who served in Afghanistan, traveled to Afghanistan
will attest to that. Democracy is not Western for us,
democracy is an indigenous tradition of our country since hundreds
of years ago. The trouble began in nineteen seventy nine
(05:24):
when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, whereby then there was
a leftist oppressive regime, the Communists. Then we hosted the
Communists again in partnership with the US, and after the
Communists the country was so racked that we could never
stand on our feet again because during the war with
(05:45):
the Russians in eight years, we lost two million people
and six million Afghans left their country. So at the
time we had eighteen million population, so half of our
population were killed or displaced forcibly. The entire infrastructure was destroyed,
so coming back from that is very difficult. I don't
(06:07):
want to delve into that, but just want to give
you a perspective.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Well, when the Taliban came in, who was funding them?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
When the Taliban came in, there were two funding streams.
The first funding steam came from Pakistan. The government of
Pakistan wanted to topple the Mujahidin regime as we call it.
The other funding source was from the Arab countries, mostly
the Gulf countries, and notably one of the big donors
(06:36):
was probably the biggest donor, was al Qaeda. Osama bin
Laden joined them and then he poured a lot of
money into the Taliban. And remember Taliban or a group
that or only focused on their militancy. They don't deliver services,
they don't spend money on people or infrastructure or other matters.
(06:56):
Whatever money you gave them, they will just use it
for buying web and then supporting their militancy. So it
was effective and it helped them quite a lot. However,
the Taliban never managed to conquer all of the country.
As I mentioned the norder of Afghanistan, there were small
pockets all over Afghanistan from south to west to east
(07:20):
where by resistance was gaining momentum in two thousand and
after that, in two thousand and one, my father fought
in the resistant and we were hopeful that he will
come back. However, when nine to eleven happened, then this
became a chance for Afghans to be released from this
(07:44):
thiss oppressive regime and that's how the Taliban were then
top alled. And so coming back to my point, there
was in the political problem Tudor. It was the Afghan
political problem, but also the US political problem. The US
political problem was that every president that changed every two
(08:05):
three years, there was a new strategy, there was a review.
Then the whole of approach to Afghanistan would have changed.
So there was not a continuous set program fixed on
the outcome based approach instaate. It was sometimes it was sentimental,
other times it was between Republicans and Democrats. Other times
(08:28):
it was between say, oh, there's we have to shift
some assets to Iraq and we have to, you know,
be careful with our allies in the region not to
go into Pakistan and all that. So all of them
actually opened them quite a big opportunity for terrorist groups
like Taliban and al Qaeda to expand and exist and
(08:50):
continue to resist the Afghan system.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
It's very from our standpoint, it's been kind of hard
to follow because you know, we know that we've always
sent people over there and that the goal was always
to come back. And you're right, we do hear the
different perspectives, the Republican and the Democrat perspective. I think
the overall was, you know, at some point we're going
to withdraw. But the withdraw was a disaster, and people
(09:18):
here in the United States are still shocked by how
big of a disaster it was. But we wanted to
hear from your perspective what happened was that were you
prepared at all for what Joe Biden did.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Not at all? The US withdrawal was something that we
didn't oppose. We ultimately wanted the US troops to either
be concised in their bases and background and Kandahar, or
you know, they're welcome to leave the country.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
How because you felt that you were able, you were
going to be able to hold the line if it
was done the right way.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Absolutely, absolutely tutor. So from two thousand and three until
two thousand and four ten, there was an incredible new
Afghan army belt by the United States and Afghan Air Force.
Our special forces were the best in that region. Tehwan
Special Forces. We partnered with NATO, we partnered with Delta Force,
(10:14):
with Navy seals, with like Rangers, some of the best
in the world. And those guys liked us. They're like, yeah,
you're good. You know this is working. In twenty ten,
it was President Obama who announced the withdrawal. Basically he
put the calendar on ice saying that we are leaving.
(10:35):
And so if you're the enemy and you already know
they're leaving no matter what, so you stop fighting, You're like, okay,
you can leave. And then but we prepared ourselves. We
had incredible level of casualties over twenty years we lost
two hundred thousand Afghan soldiers, seventy thousand of them were
(10:56):
only army soldiers, and then the police and other militia
forces as well. Nonetheless, we held the line. We continued
to build and get better and better in the governors,
in the military, in the economics. The trouble began when
the American politicians stopped listening to Afghans and started negotiating
(11:18):
with the Taliban. Twenty eleven, President Obama basically closed Guantanamo
Bay and he took some of the detainees put them
in Dohakatar, and the next day they started negotiating with
their own detainees. We were not happy about it, and
in fact, our president Ahmed Karzai protested as strong as
(11:42):
he could. He's like, this is not right, this will
be giving them lechitimacy. However, the process continued. Unfortunately, it
never stopped, and during President Trump, Adoha Dil was signed
with the Taliban and the Taliban were given political village Timnessee,
and the deal effectively turned the United States from being
(12:05):
an effective partner to the Afghan forces into a passive
observer watching US and the Taliban. You know, do the
dog fight that was not a significant blow enough. Then
the ammunition shipments and support for Afghan Air Force has stopped,
and the contractors that maintained some of our sophisticated kit,
(12:29):
which were American kids, also were ordered to leave Afghanistan
because this was a port of ada deal that the
Taliban demanded not only US soldiers but also contractors should leave.
And using American kit, we couldn't go to anywhere else
to get contractors or ammunition or new weaponry. It was
(12:50):
all Americans.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
So I think that's something important for our listeners to understand,
is that this is the power that America has to
keep peace. And that's why we've said for so many
years it is peace through strength. It's not necessarily sending soldiers,
but it's making sure that the people on the ground
are prepared and the people on the ground are in control.
(13:12):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon podcast. I think you mentioned something very
interesting when you talk about the release of the prisoners
at Guantanamo Bay and the closure of that. I don't
think people a lot of people understand that that legitimize
the Taliban, because then they started negotiating with the very
(13:36):
people that had been detained, So to negotiate with the
people that have been detained that you said, these are
the bad guys, we're going to keep them. Then to
have Obama let them go and then have presidents from
then on negotiating with them. Suddenly the Taliban goes from
a terror organization to a government. In the minds of
the people, that's a problem.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
That is accurate tutor. And then towards the end of
President Trump's presidency a plan be emerged because President Trump
was adamant that this is a conditional based agreement and
if the Taliban reached the agreements, were going to come
back after them. The Taliban reached every single though article agreement.
(14:20):
They said in the agreement that they won't attack major cities.
They did. They said they will cut their ties with
al Qaeda. They never cut their ties with Al Kaieda.
They said that they will work with Afghan government and
become part of the Afghan governments. They never did that.
They said they will be port, they will talk to
the Afghan government's negotiation team. They never actually talked to
(14:44):
our negotiation team. And they also promised that they're not
going to attack American soldiers. And now this last thing.
The American soldiers were in their basis, there was no
way that the Taliban could attack. And because before getting
to the American base there was like seven layers of
Afghan security to begin with. And many people in the
(15:07):
US don't understand that. They think that the two thy
five hundred Americans were defending themselves. That is absolutely wrong.
It was the Afghan forces and these were these guys
were in safe bases. They were not in front lines,
not in you know, in an harms way. Of course,
sometimes they were like indirect fire into the bases from
(15:29):
a far away which didn't have any casualties. So even
if the condition's based approach was still taken seriously, Afghanistan
would never fall into the Taliban. But when President Biden came,
he said, I don't care the consequence. I don't care
what happens. He stopped listening to his generals in Pentagon,
(15:53):
he stopped listening to Cia Hill. He wouldn't even take
the call from our president. So he just absolutely he
made his mind, and then he pulled the plag without
you know, giving us a warning, without you know, adhering
to the agreement that he said. He will adhere and
then Afghanistan rapidly started to be controlled by the Taliban.
(16:20):
In the middle of all of this, it is very
important that when the Taliban were legitimized through the Doha Deal,
countries like Qatar started paying hundreds of millions of dollars
to the Taliban. Pakistan uh started training them in thousands.
Iran started giving them like rockets, artillery shells, artillery pieces, snipers,
(16:47):
and they also started training.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Why what do they expect from the Taliban? I mean,
you you made the point that this is not a government,
this is a military group. They are solely focused on military,
not on people. I've taken over. I mean when you
talk about the takeover, this was a matter of days
before they took over completely. And I I would like
your opinion on that too, because I think that the
(17:12):
Americans and even the soldiers that were there said, hey,
we had this setup so that the Taliban couldn't come in,
But the way we left the forces in a situation
where you couldn't fight as well as we had thought.
But maybe it was Maybe it was because there was
so much money that had been sunken into the Taliban
(17:34):
army that we weren't aware of if that is coming
from Pakistan, if that's coming from Iran, what is the
end goal giving them that much money and that much power.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
That is a very good question. Iran always wanted to
kick the Americans out of Afghanistan. Pakistan always wanted the
Americans out of Afghanistan, and in this they were united.
Pakistan had always provided I Haven training and support to
the Taliban up until the fall of the Republic. When
(18:06):
the Americans made sure that they're leaving. The Afghan government
was seen as a legacy of the Americans, as a
lynchpin connecting Washington. So Iran wanted to make sure that
this doesn't exist. Furthermore, one of the other things that
was horrifying for Iran was our governance system. This was
(18:27):
a liberal democracy. People could vote, women were free. It
was very different than Iran. So they got scared. And
Afghans have a huge influence in our region. Whatever happens
in Afghanistan, it affects Central Asia, it affects Iran, it
affects Pakistan. So they got scared. Is like, okay, this
(18:47):
is inspiring our people to do the same. So it
was a threat to their regime.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Because I think people don't understand that Iran in the
seventies was very westernized. Women could go to school, women
could wear whatever they wanted, They were very free to
do as they please and that and then you have
the Iranian regime who's there now, and they took over
and changed completely, and so that's what they believe. Everybody
(19:14):
in the region should also then feel the same. Should
treat women the same, should treat people the same. I
mean not obviously I'm focused on women, but the families
are not treated well. This is not a regime for
the people, as you said, this is a military regime
that likes to cause chaos and terror across the globe.
And so I think from the perspective of Americans, we've said, well,
(19:35):
what does this withdrawal look like for the face of terror?
Because if the Taliban gains so much ground and they
have so much money, and they have now this land
in Afghanistan, do we go right back to where we
were on September tenth? You know, are we just being
naive about the fact that we fought this for twenty
(19:56):
years and now this cat is out of the bag
again and they have total control. I think that's a
concern of the American people. And then you mentioned something
else you said when Obama came out and said we're
going to withdraw, we want to get out of Afghanistan.
Is that when Iran and Pakistan started to say, okay,
(20:16):
we're going to send tens of millions of dollars to
the Taliban to train them.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
So has it been to Washington. Policy always played a
role in how Iran and Pakistan and other countries would
behave in Afghanistan. The strategic deterrence was removed by President
Bobama when he said we're leaving. So Pakistan and Iran
saw and opportunities like, oh wow, if they're leaving, then
(20:41):
of course they're going to leave a government behind. There
will be Afghan government, and you know, we need to
give them a leadinos as they walk out, and also
make sure that the next regime that comes in is
friendly to us. If you see today, compare the Taliban
and Iran, there is incredible resemblance. The Taliban have a
(21:02):
supreme leader, Iran has a supreme leader. Taliban rule through
fanatical religious perspective. Iran rules through fanatical religious perspective. Taliban
think they're the center of gravity for Sunni Muslim and terrorism,
and Iran claims that they're the center of gravity for
(21:26):
Shia fanatical terrorism. And Iran's policy is to spread Shiaism,
their sect of you know, Islamic thinking, into the world.
The Taliban's foreign policy is to export Sunni fanatical terrorism
(21:48):
into the rest of the world through al Qaeda, through
other organizations that you see. So these are these are
the same in many ways, and they would like to
work together. Be because the Taliban today or part of
the Iran's access of resistance against the US, al Qaeda
is training in Afghanistan, and Iran is using al Qaeda
(22:10):
against the US basis in Middle East and in Africa.
And in fact, one of the things that occurred was
an incredible thing is when Talban took over Afghanistan. Iranians
had reevaluated their policy towards Al Kaida before they had
liison and coordination with al Qaeda, but they took it
(22:30):
elevated to the next level. They offered al Kaieda say,
we will pay for your training and money if you
join us in the fight in the Middle East. And
Iran then offered the Taliban and al Qaeda an opportunity.
They said as we you know, kick the Americans out
of Afghanistan, Let's go after them in the Middle East.
And you know, if we put enough pressure and bring
(22:54):
enough casualty to them, they will leave Middle East. So
if you see after the fall of Afghanistan, the number
of attacks in Iraq, in Syria, in Jordan and elsewhere
has dramatically increased. So this was this was an effort
that was fought in Afghanistan and kept on their knees.
(23:15):
And now you know they have an open hand. Now
Iranians al Kaieda and you know in Taliban can choose
where to attack. The US forces in Africa, Indian Ocean,
in Arab countries, they can choose wherever they want. So
the keeping forces in Afghanistan, with the amount of money
spent in Afghanistan was a peanut compared to what the
(23:39):
US is spending today against terrorism, and what the US
is spending today against terrorism will be a peanut. What
is about to come and where the US would then
would would then't have to engage in a match larger
scale if the US wants to stop major attacks like
(23:59):
nine eleven.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
I think it's very hard for Americans to see this
until they have an attack like nine to eleven, and
you know, the generation now, the newest generation hasn't seen that,
as the newest generation of Afghans have not seen what
they're now living as a lifestyle in Afghanistan. And I
think that's also something critical for especially liberal Americans to understand.
(24:22):
What happened has taken away the rights of so many people,
the rights that we take advantage of, that we just
take for granted that we believe that is central to
everyone's life. Those were just removed. And the insult of
Joe Biden saying to the Taliban will have every last
soldier out by September eleventh, I mean, what was that
(24:45):
that to me? You are insulting the families that lost
people that day. You are insulting every soldier who was
injured or gave his life and their families who survived
without them to fight this war for twenty years. I mean,
it's just shocking to me. I know, for a long
time people have questioned the motives of Barack Obama and said,
(25:09):
you know, why did he even do all this? Why
has he seemed to be a champion of this side.
But Joe Biden to do this on September eleventh. It's
just so sick.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
It is it is. I don't understand the tutor and
I was shocked when I heard it, and I was like,
did is this what ben Laden wants? Or is this
what Biden wants? Because I'm confused ben Laden wants to
celebrate this state double double impact basically nine to eleven,
(25:44):
twenty years after another victory. I mean, I don't know
who who came up with this idea, but most definitely
this was something that ben Laden and mul Omar would
be celebrating in their graves when they heard it. It's like, okay,
have another nine to eleven, and this is also a
victory for US. There are many things I don't understand.
(26:07):
One of the other things to door I don't understand
is President Biden's very vindictive agenda to ours Afghanistan. He
hates Afghanistan, he hates Afghans. I don't know why we
didn't do anything to him. We partnered with US military
and we partnered with the Americans. We took himend's pride,
(26:28):
and we paid a minis price for being the US partners.
Why Iran and Pakistan and other countries would support our
opposition is because of our partnership with the Americans, and
so we continue to pay a major price in our
region because of being partners with Americans. Personally, I'm paying
(26:49):
a price. Every soldier is paying a price.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Stay tuned for more of my interview with Lieutenant General
Sammy Saddat, but first I want to take a moment
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So we're looking for five hundred of you to join us,
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(27:58):
and fifty dollars to meet the urgent security needs of
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(28:19):
It's SUPPORTIFCJ dot org to give again. That's one word,
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stay tuned. We've got more with Sammy Saddat. After this,
a lot of our military members and servicemen have tried
to bring people with them back to the United States
(28:42):
to keep them safe. You had to leave Afghanistan, and
I know that that's devastating to you, to leave your
home country. That's not what you wanted, certainly, it's not you.
You continue to fight from the sidelines to say we're
going to take it back. We're going to take our
country back. Tell us a little bit about the price
that you and your servicemen paid, so we're paying.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
In Iran, the Afghan security forces or on the only basis, tortured, imprisoned,
deported back into the hands of the Taliban where they
will be shot on the border. In hundreds, in large
numbers in Turkey, the Afghan security forces are arrested and
sent back to Afghanistan to the Taliban where they're shot,
(29:26):
tortured and disabled by the Taliban. Politically, when we started
our effort to mobilize Afghans Afghanistan United Front, mem and
my team members would travel a lot, went to Zbakistan
and they would welcome you, they will talk to you
(29:46):
a little bit, and suddenly they will say like, oh,
we know you are very close to the Americans, so
we have some concerns and you know, how's your relationship
with the CIA. So they immediately think that I just
came from Langley and I have this nefarious agenda for
so they don't trust us. And you know, most definitely
(30:07):
Iranians don't trust those Afghan security forces and politicians that
worked with with Americans. Pakistanis don't trust him. Central Asians,
other Russians obviously, wherever they are, they don't trust him.
I was in Turkey and we started talking to some
of our friends. I got an office, I got some
(30:28):
of my soldiers like, you know, we need to prepare
and go back and free our country. And a couple
of months after I was deported from Turkey, I was
detained and then deported back into Switzerland, where like where
I you know I came from, so in other countries,
(30:51):
as soon as we land, you know, there will be
intelligence officers waiting at the airport and then you know,
taking us on the side, like let's have a coffee,
and then discussion would come back to our relationship with
the Americans, and their concern is very vivid. We come
to America, President Biden doesn't want to talk about Afghanistan.
(31:11):
The administration is completely deaf and blind about what is
happening there. So it is very, very tough. We are
grateful to the American people. We're grateful to the service members.
We are grateful to all those volunteers that stood up
by Afghans on a very very dark day, on a
(31:32):
very difficult day. We saw that and we remain grateful forever.
We're a loyal nation. We're a grateful nation when we
will never forget that. The reason why we want to
work with America is because of those great men and
women who stood by Afghans. If America was only about
President Biden, if America was only how this administration sees us,
(31:54):
we would never be here. We would never talk to
you again even But it's about the American people, It's
about the Afghan people. They're very close. They have a
lot of respect for each other, especially in the military.
We have respect for US military, they have respect for
us and for us. We lost our home. You know,
my soul is still somewhere in Kabul. I'm just a
(32:16):
vessel walking around and trying to find the means to
reconnect with my soul. And for many Afghan young men
and woman, it's true and it's the same. You know,
these are beautiful countries America, Europe, but these are not
our countries. Our countries oppressed. They're under a tyrannical regime
and tyranny must be rejected and tyranny must be fought.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
What does that look like to you for the future,
I mean, you talk about you can't work with di
Biden administration. I assume that that will be the same
if there were a Harris administration. What would you like
to see in the future.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Tudor realready got myself in a lot of trouble by
bashing President Biden. I hope Harras changes if she wents,
and I definitely hope that President Trump changes the policy.
We have a political organization, Afghanistan United Front. We got
a number of Afghan young general officers, young diplomats, governors,
(33:21):
and civil society activists, tribal leaders and others, and we
created a platform whereby this energy could be used collectively
to free our country. Our legal basis for this is
the Constitution of Afghanistan, which was adopted in two thousand
and four, and this is one of the best constitutions
we ever had in our history. We want to bring
(33:44):
back constitutional order in Afghanistan. We want to change the
Taliban regime. We want to kick al Kaeda out of
our country. We don't want Al Qaeda guests. These are
bad people. These are awful people. They have that done
horrendous things in our country and other other countries. We
are gearing up and we're preparing to go and fight.
(34:06):
Right now, we are working on a political legitimacy, which
we have a little bit of political edge intimacy now
that we have Spook spoke around the US and Europe
and other countries. We are looking for technical support and
we have soldiers. We don't need U as soldiers. We
don't want boots on the ground. We need technical and
(34:29):
political support later, after God willing, Afghanistan is free. If
the United States want to take a base two basis,
we are good. We can negotiate and they're welcome to
stay in the basis, but we don't want them to
fight again on the battlefields. If they want to come
(34:50):
for strategic deterrence for China, Iran al Qaeda, I don't know.
I mean, those guys are our enemies as well. I'd
be you would be happy to restart a partnership, But
right now we're looking at a partnership whereby the Afghans
would go and do the fighting and Americans provides support
(35:12):
and we will take care of the American interests. As
I said, we're not ungrateful people.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
So you still have troops on the ground in Afghanistan.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
We have hundreds of thousands of people who will fight
on our behalf, so we don't have lack of lack of.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Well, we are following your story closely, and I want
I think a lot of people don't understand. I think
we watched this from the sidelines. You know, we were
so shocked by September eleventh here in this country, and
we watched George Bush say that we would fight this,
(35:53):
and we sent and it was amazing how immediately people said,
sign me up, I'm going I want to protect our country,
and it really changed. I think the way we viewed
protecting our country for so many years, and we've had
kind of a I guess, a shattered political viewpoint in
(36:14):
the United States. We have two parties that are very
much on edge on a daily basis now, But we
watch this and we don't fully understand what it means
to be controlled by a terrorist regime. And that's why
I find your story so valuable to the American people
to hear your side of it. And I'd like you
(36:34):
to tell us a little bit about your book and
where people can get it so they can understand even more.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Thank you, tutor. So, my book, The Last Commander, you
can get it on Amazon, and it is about the
twenty years of Afghanistan, the war and partners partnerships between
US and Afghan military. I work with CIA for a period.
(36:59):
The spy stories, there is covert operations, there is all
of this is packed up in a simple story narrative.
As I'm speaking to you. I didn't want to write
the conceptual book. I wanted to write a story of
what happened, why it happened, some of the great things
we did, some of the complex operations, the role of
(37:21):
intelligence and how you know intelligence was good, how the
regional countries were getting involved, how we came up with,
you know, different plans and programs, and some of the
success stories that we had of taking out some senior
Al Qaida members, taking out senior terrorists. So anyone in
the military, in the business industry, in the intelligence and
(37:45):
security and if you know they're adventurous young people, they're
starting a new leadership role, they will find this book interesting.
And there's I'm told that there's money less since that
young men and woman that read the book are drawn
and they liked it. I don't want to sound like
(38:07):
someone who's celebrating himself, but.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
No, you should advertise your progress there. Go ahead, it's fine,
tell us we want to hear.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yeah, I got good feedback. They could really really say
this is something that they can use in their life
as they're managing or leading, or you know, they're going
through a period that they're not sure what is how
to make decisions and all that so kind of puts
things on a perspective.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Well, that's what I think we need right now because
we're seeing what's happening in Israel and we know that
the Taliban will also form against Israel. We know that
these are all connected. These terror organizations are all connected,
and that ultimately comes back to us, you know, and
they I think the part that Americans haven't realized is
(38:56):
this ultimately doesn't go away for America. Just walking away
from from Afghanistan doesn't make the Taliban out of sight,
out of minds. That's the mistake we made on September tenth.
And I think we need to recognize that you have
to be aware of where all of these organizations are
at once. But as we're kind of navigating as a country,
what does Ukraine look like? What does Israel look like?
(39:17):
And it gets good to read about another historical battle,
and so I appreciate the fact that you were willing
to come on today, and I encourage people to get
the book. It's called The Last Commander, The Once in
Future Battle for Afghanistan, and we just so appreciate you
coming on. Lieutenant General Sammy Sadat, thank you so.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Much, Thank you, ma'am. I have a great day.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Absolutely, you two, and thank you all for joining us
on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. For this episode and others,
go to Tutor dixonpodcast dot com or the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and join
us next time. Have a blessed day.
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