September 5, 2024 • 36 mins
Author and investigative journalist, Julie Kelly, joins C&B with a report from the Trump hearing today in the DC J6 case. Clay and Buck speak to Jeff Tiegs, a counterterrorism and counterinsurgency expert with more than 25 years of service in US Army Special Ops, from Israel where he traveled to Gaza and observed the pure evil contained in the evidence from the October 7 Hamas attack on Israel.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Third hour Clay and bought kicks off. Now, our friend
Julie Kelly back in the mix. She is the author
of the declassified sub stack, which you should go check out,
go subscribe to it, doing a lot of work on
the law fair, the K six defendants and more. She's
in DC. And my understanding, Julie is you just left
(00:22):
the courthouse. What were you there for? And what is
the latest of the ongoing law fair against Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hey, guys, so I was there this morning. This is
the first hearing in more than ten months in Special
Council Jacksmiths January sixth related indictment of Donald Trump. Of course,
the proceedings have been on hold as Judge Tiny Chutkins's
immunity opinion, which denied the president immunity from presidential from
(00:50):
excuse me, criminal prosecution, moved through the Appella Court and then,
of course the Supreme Court, which came back on July
first with its landmark opinion in Trump versus is the US,
outlining basically three separate buckets of immunity. So now that
the court, the Supreme Court handed that down, Jack Smith
had to address it. In his old indictment. He cut
(01:12):
nine pages from it because the Supreme Court said all
of Donald Trump's communications with his Department of Justice were
of course well within his core powers constitutional powers. So
Jacksmith had to cut nine pages. He dropped a co conspirator,
Jeffrey Clark, who was with the boj at the time.
Jack Smith filing a superseding indictment last week and basically
(01:35):
restarting the proceedings, and that was the basis of this
hearing today. What the next steps are will be in
this case.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Julie, this is all chaotic. I think it's hard for
people to follow. I mentioned earlier. I want to hit
this one and we'll come back to DC. But I'm
sure you saw Fanny Willis and Nathan Wade together again
showing up at Fanny Willis's daughter, I believe was arrested
for a traffic violation, and Nathan Wade, who supposedly isn't
(02:08):
involved with Fanny Willis anymore, she testified under oath that
their relationship was done. Now maybe they rekindled that romance,
if you want to be kind to her, and so
she didn't lie under oath, but.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
I thought it was real. Soon to the soap opera
here way, Well, I mean, look, I mean, and.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
It feels so good.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Come on, all you had to do was not sleep
with the person that you hired to try to put
Trump in prison, and that case may well have been
able to go to trial. I mean, it's really the
incompetence is kind of amazing. But I thought it was
emblematic of sort of the incompetence that has existed, whether
it's Jack Smith getting the case tossed in South Florida
(02:46):
having to do a superseding indictment, and now Alvin Bragg
Fanny Willis. We also have, in addition to what's going
on with Judge Chutkins's courtroom, and I'm gonna ask you
about her sort of mindset. What do you think is
going to happen with Judge Merchand because now he's got
to make a decision and it's a pretty big one
what to do with Trump. I saw there was a
(03:09):
hagiogur at the profile of just.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Remind everybody real quickly that we're talking about New York
City now, where the just soever? Because we're moving around
to cases and judges here the idiot sentence.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
It's so messy when you look at all this, Julie,
what do you think they're going to do in New
York City.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Look, I think we talked about this maybe last week,
and I've tweeted this, and that is these judges and
prosecutors don't care. They don't care if higher courts come
in and I saw that today with Judge Chuckkin. They
don't care if they're humiliated at the appellate level or
the Supreme Court. These prosecutors don't care if they're humiliated
(03:48):
in the press or even by their colleagues. Their only goal,
and it's is prosecutors and judges Georgia, New York, Washington.
Thank God for judging Lean Cannon and Florida. She's the exception.
If this helps to destroy Donald Trump, to help disable
or hurt him at all the election, they don't care
(04:09):
about the long term consequences. And this is what we
could talk about Judge Tony Chucktim today. They are all
on the same page. They have no respect for the
rule of law or due process, for common decency. So,
of course Jan Marshawan is going to come back on
September sixteenth. He is going to issue an order without
any hearing, without any inputs from the Department of Justice.
(04:32):
He is going to come back and say that the
Supreme Court's immunity ruling has no odds involvement, has no
part of the New York case, even though the New
York case deals with when Donald Trump was in the
White House communications he had with White House employees and officials.
He's going to come back and single handedly say no,
(04:53):
none of this is covered under the Supreme Court immunity ruling.
And two days later won't even be enough time for
Donald Trump's lawyers to file an emergency appeal. Any immunity
decision is automatically appealed, and it puts the proceedings on today.
They'll barely have time to file that appeal before two
(05:13):
days later, on September eighteenth, Marshan is supposed to sentence
Donald Trump for his convictions. He doesn't care if he
gets overturned later. He really these judges do not care.
That is the frightening aspect of all of this. And
so you cannot expect good behavior from Fanny Willis, or
good behavior from Jan Marshon, or even just do your
(05:36):
job the ways that we expect you to. There's no
consequences for them, and even long term if they're overturned
by the courses. I said, they don't care because their
short term goals will have been achieved.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Prepare for Trump to be sentenced to prison. On September
eighteenth was the article that Anny McCarthy wrote up at
Fox News. What do you think about that? Really? I mean,
you're kind of leading up to it, but I feel
like we needed to say this out loud. Do you
really think that Judge Mrchan is willing to do that?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I mean, I think we've discussed this before. You can't
put anything past him because he has acted so badly,
of course, totally compromised with his daughter's involvement in democratic politics,
made at least thirteen million dollars while her father was
presiding over the Trump case, raking in at least thirteen
(06:28):
million from Trump meeting Democrats, including Adam Schiff, and then
preaking a gap order on Donald Trumper. He can't even
make public statements about her. And then you had the
federal court a judge also deny. Last week, Donald Trump's
moved to remove the case from a state court to
(06:49):
federal court, where it belongs because this deals with federal conduct.
Now it deals with the Supreme Court ruler. You had
a ninety year old Clinton judge who probably didn't even
read the Supreme Court immunity rule, probably didn't even read
the motion to move it from state to federal court.
Immediately deny that. I mean, Donald Trump simply cannot get
any release from any of these judges or prosecutors, except
(07:13):
of course judging in Cannon, who dismissed the document's case
last month, or excuse me in July based on the
unconstitutional appointment of Jack Smith, but other in any other
scenario here, in any of these trials, and this extends
to the Jay sixers, and we could talk about this later.
These judges and prosecutors have no respect for the rules
(07:34):
block or the Constitution for due process rights. They are
all just partisan actors. And this is and they are
setting very dangerous precedents in the process.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
You mentioned in the January six ers. It seems that
despite the Supreme Court ruling about an excessive use of
a Sarbines Oxley based charge to try to put people
behind bars for as long as possible, that most judges
are not really applying the Supreme Court precedent in a
(08:05):
way that they should, in my breeding, in a beneficial
way for most jan six defendants. With that in mind,
I know Trump has talked about pardoning many of those
jan six defendants.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Do you think you will? Do you think he should?
And I don't mean everybody.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Some people legitimately attacked police officers, they engaged in actual
acts of violence. But grandma's with selfie sticks who walked
into the capitol and got charged with crimes. I mean,
you would know better than me, Julie, But I would
think ninety five percent of these people that there's no
doubt Trump should pardon them if he's elected.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Absolutely, And I think the lowest hanging fruit would be
those who are convicted of the misdemeanor offenses because those
simply have never been applied in a federal capacity to
any political protesters in Washington. Those people, all of them,
and this represents overwhelming majority of cases, are just these
four federal misdemeanors. All of those defendants should be pardoned. Then,
(09:02):
of course you go to those who were convicted or
created guilty to the fifteen twelve C two obstruction what
you were just recurring to again overturned by the Supreme
Court in June. All of those people should be, of
course pardoned for that. I would take it a step further,
civil disorder, other nonviolent offenses, those people should be pardoned
as well. Then you could separate out people who attack
(09:25):
police officers. Now is throwing a water bottle attacking a
police officer that should land someone in prison for six years.
So what I think the next step is to look
at that bachelor of defendant and then compare that to
similar cases in Washington, d C. Where you have people
who attack police officers all the time. We just saw
(09:46):
this in the Prohamas demonstrations a few months ago, attacking
federal police. Those people have not even been arrested or charged,
let alone had the books fromit them. So then the
president will have to look at comparable case and those
sentences and almost all of them should be commuted because
there's just no comparison between people who've attacked federal officers
(10:08):
during a political protest, whether it's twenty seventeen, twenty twenty,
twenty twenty one, or certainly this year or early late
last year. That there has to be equity in how
the law is applied in Washington. But that is not happening.
And every time I come here, you guys, I am
more disgusted and truly heartbroken in a way at what
(10:31):
I see happen in the CC courthouse. They basically judges
are saying back to the Fisher fifteen Twelvey two. They
are saying to J. Sixers, the criminal Code and the
Federal sentencing guidance never anticipated an event like January sixth,
so they can basically make up laws, they can misapply
(10:52):
the law, They can ignore limits in federal sentencing guidance
to exact maximum punishment on J. Sixers, even to the
point of ignoring the Supreme Court, which is what they're
doing because they want to send a message, like Marrick
Garland has said, this will not be tolerated. If you
try to protest again the election in Washington, the twenty
(11:13):
twenty four results, this is what will happen to you.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Truly, I have to ask you, you know, because there's
some back you know, back channel chatter going on among
a bunch of people I know on the right that
while we see all this Russia Russia stuff as just
the most obvious and conveniently timed political manipulation in advance
of the election, that maybe there's more stuff going on.
(11:39):
We know what happened to Trump, we know about the
abuse offiza, we know about the whole weaponization of the
deep state. It's still there, and now they've got a
Democrat president. Do you have any concerns, given the return
of you know, Russia collusion three point zero or whatever
we're calling it, that we're just seeing the beginning of this.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Possibly because you know that they will use that, just
as they did in twenty twenty, to suppress and information,
to suppress free expression. I believe the indictment, and I
haven't had a chance because I've been here covering this
deals with if you make negative comments about immigration or inflation,
that somehow that is going to be Russian disinformation, just
(12:21):
like we thought about Hunter's laptop, just like we thought
about criticism of absence ye voting in twenty twenty. But
it's stunning to me the same DJ claiming the Russians
are trying to interfere in our election, having Jack Smith
and at least eight other federal prosecutors in a DC
courtroom this morning advancing an indictment, a weak, watered down
(12:45):
indictment that will ultimately be tossed, keeping that indictment in
play now sixty days away from election day, and having
a federal judge, judge time touch an Obama appointees, stay
out loud. Election has no consideration in my courtroom. The
electoral schedule will have no impact on my trial schedule,
(13:07):
on hearing schedule moving forward. It is not a factor
in my courtroom. That's what she said. So the same
Dooja warning about what now you know more Russia, Russia,
Russia vagrantly allowing their own department and special council, unconstitutional
special council, by the way, advancing this indictment, keeping Donald
(13:28):
Trump's lawyers in court, and also keeping this phony, bogus
indictment in the headline.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Julie Kelly, everybody declassified is your sub stack. You just
walked out of the courtroom down there in DC doing
the most on the front lines engagement with this lawfair stuff,
reporting on this lawfair stuff of anybody. Julie. Thank you
so much. Great to have you as always. Thank you, Julie.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Sorry, I'm fired up, guys, but thank you for having.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
We like fired up, Julie, stay fired up. We'll talk
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Speaker 4 (15:31):
Use and politics, but also a little comic relief.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
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Speaker 4 (15:38):
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Speaker 3 (15:42):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all
of you hanging out with us as we are rolling
through the program. We're going to head down to or
out to Israel and get the absolute latest there from
Jeff Tigue's a friend of yours here in a minute, Buck,
But I do think putting a bow on what Julie
Kelly just hold all of us. I mentioned earlier the
(16:02):
Fanny Willis Nathan Wade mess I think that case is
going to end up getting tossed on appeal because I
think it's implicated by the Supreme Court decision even though
it's a state matter. But when Trump wins and I
say win because I believe he is going to win,
and he drops all of these cases, one of the
(16:25):
fascinating things that's going to be kind of at play
buck is remember Jack Smith can still try to do
things with these cases in November, December, and January, after
the actual election has taken place. Now, I think the
practical impact is they're going to toss much of this
(16:45):
and just kind of put it on the back burner
because it's blown up in their face. But I do
think we need to spend some time talking about the
decision that Judge Merchand's going to have to make on
September eighteenth, and I think it could be impacted by
how the presidential race is going in the way of
the debate in terms of his decision making.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
To be clear, Andy McCarthy's and we should probably have
him back before the sentencing. There we go. Andy said
in his peace that, oh, Clay, I think I talked
to him about this while you were out by the way,
and then you and Julie talked aboutself last ye. Yes, Well,
he said that Merchan's got a sentence Trump to prison,
but he won't be taken into custody pending appeal. So
(17:26):
you get Trump sentenced to prison without actually all that
stuff about like oh, we can't he go to Rikers
or whatever. Forget all that. He'll be released on his
own recognissance until appeal, which gets us past the election.
But you will have Trump sent otherwise. What was this
all about? As far as the lunatic communists are concerned,
they're gonna say, give him a fine. That was a
(17:46):
fine hour community. First of all, Trumpet community service would
be amazing, the best server of the community.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
What merchand should do we talk about this maybe a
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Speaker 1 (18:53):
Welcome back in to Clay and Buck live from Israel
with us right now overseas, We've got our friend, Jeff Tigues.
Jeff spent twenty five years in the Special Operations community.
He was a Delta Squadron commander. He has tremendous experience
(19:13):
in military and national security affairs. He just today met
with Prime Minister Benjamin at Yahoo and also with the
Defense Minister of Israel. Jeff, first of all, just tell us,
tell us about the mission set over there and what
you've learned so far.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
Well, Bob, thanks a lot for having me. It's great
to connect with you again. You know, just a few
weeks ago, this organization that I hadn't heard of before
the European Leadership Network reached out to me. They were
looking for a couple of Americans to join them on
this military expert panel that consists of mostly Brits but
a couple of Aussies, an officer from Romania and France,
(19:51):
and I had no idea we were we would be
given this level of access. So we've really gone from
the tactical briefings. We surveyed the sites of the October
seventh attack in Israel, We went to a couple of
the kid we'd seen, and went to where the Nova festival.
We got some really detailed briefings on how this attack
was actually pulled off. We saw some video that that
(20:13):
has not been seen before. So from the tactical level,
we've had some incredible access, and we have also been
briefed by some of the commanders on the ground, the
commander that just was replaced, who has really the one
who really became the groundbreaking pioneer on how to integrate
the fight within Gaza above ground and below ground. And
(20:34):
then yesterday we were actually able to have a military
escort from the IDF to survey what is actually happening
in Gaza the fight.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
So you were in Gaza yesterday.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
Probably we were in Gaza yesterday, Yeah, and we followed
the Philadelphia quarrider from the Rafa entrance all the way
down to Swedish Village to the sea. We were able
to survey some of the tunnels that they have found.
We were able to survey some of the old fighting
positions and even some of the some of the homes
that continue to stand, and really get a good glimpse
(21:06):
of what the Israeli defense forces are dealing with. And
then we cap that off today from a lot of
this tactical evaluation to really hearing straight from the sources,
both with the Minister Defense and Prime Minister net Nyahu
on where they see going forward and what their strategies
are to defeat Hamas once and for all.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Jeff, I'm going to be over there in December, and
I think I'm going to see much of what you
are seeing now. When you see what Hamas is still
doing in terms of holding hostages and certainly executing hostages,
six of them, including an American, is it even more
unbelievable to you that there is any suggestion that Israel
(21:50):
should cease fire or stop what they're doing to try
to get their people back and also protect them from
another October seventh ever happening again.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
It's it's mind boggling that anyone thinks that that is
a realistic option. You know. Part of the defenses, and
you know, when you look at the success that Hamas
had on October seventh, part of that was the expectation
that they just wouldn't do something so barbaric, you know,
that the world would turn their back on something this medieval,
and the world supported Israel in a very very short time.
(22:24):
And then the information operations campaign that Hamas and has
Balond the other proxies and through Iran was able to
twist this story. So the barbarism was even at a
higher level than I was aware of. It's so complicated
on how they're continuing to fight. So really the primary
focus has been to defeat Hamas as an army. We
call about we talk about Hamas as a terror organization,
(22:47):
but it was actually a terror army and it is
almost decimated. There is there is about a thousand Hamas
left that they can that they think exists. Probably half
of them have already escaped God, so they're really down
to just tiny pockets of resistance and they're continuing to
search for these hostages, but it's always been a race
(23:08):
for time. But it really is an untenable even discussion
to give up the Philadelphia Corridor because the hundreds and
hundreds of tunnels, the size, the scale and the scope
of them. There's no question how Hamas aren't There's no
question where they got their munitions. It was all coming
in through Egypt, and that is the single line of
(23:30):
defense that Israel has to control.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Speaking of Jeff Tigue's former Special Operations Community, and he's
part of this delegation of military experts, this panel that
has been meeting with the highest levels of the Israeli government,
and he was just in Gaza yesterday telling us about
the Philadelphi Corridor and what he saw there in terms
of the tunnel networks. Jeff, how much? And I know
(23:55):
you know you spoke to net Yahoo, you spoke to
the Defense Minister. So to the degree you can let
us in on some of the high level there, please do.
I know you probably have to respect some confidentiality equities
as well, but to whatever degree you can tell us
about their vision of where this is going next, or
even just what you see as the final stages of
(24:16):
this war against Hamas that was kicked off with their
mass casualty terror attack on October seventh.
Speaker 5 (24:23):
Yes, and I think ironically, Buck, you know, one of
the only criticism we had to share with Israel is
that they're losing the IO campaign. Yes, there were mistakes
that were made as far as the early warning and
how far Hamasu it was able to advance with their
terror attack, But they've got to be more open with
the public and the press, and so hopefully you'll be
(24:45):
getting some calls yourself for them to talk to you
about this in person. But they recognize that this is
the first year of probably a ten year war and
they're trying to limit the front. So right now they're
being threatened out of God's that they're being threatened by
the Woi's in the south, they're being threatened by heads
belond the north, they're surrounded by Syria, They're continuing to
be rocketed by Iran.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
You know.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
Lebanon is you know, trying to play both sides. So
they've got a multifront war and they're trying to take
it piece by piece. They don't want to have a
multifront war, so they're trying to prioritize what it is
they're doing. But obviously, like you know, to defeat Hamas
and recover the hostages is sometimes at loggerheads, and that's
what they're trying to deal with. So they're in this
(25:29):
for the long haul. They're really trying to find answers
on what happens with the day after, but there are
very very few good solutions.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Jeff, is it fair to say that Hamas is desperately
rooting for Kamala Harris to win this race?
Speaker 5 (25:45):
You know, I hate to say this, but I'm going
to have to admit the answer is yes. You know,
I'm not a politician. I'm a soldier. I'm aware of politics,
and as a civilian i'm involved in it. But you know,
having been over here and really talk to folks and
watch the degradation from some of these other administrations on
how we've really cooled relations with Israel, we've begun to
(26:08):
be real critical of Israel. You know, one of these
pivotal reasons that Hamas attacked when it did was because
they saw Israel as weak, They saw the West as weak,
they saw our ties and tenuous. And this wasn't just
initially designed to be a terror attack that was stopped.
These Hamas fighters had plans and maps and logistical support
(26:30):
to be in Israel over a month and to get
all the way to Tel Aviv, and they thought if
they could get an encroachment into Israel and just wreak
enough havoc. They were expecting has a Lot to attack
from the north. They were expecting Iran to jump in.
They were expecting Juday and Sumaria, which we call the
West Bank, to be internal fires. So while there was
(26:51):
some incredible military terror successes by Jimas's there was, this
did not become a regional conflict. We have got to
continue to demonstrate our stalwart support for Israel, and they're
really feeling the strain, and they've been feeling the strain
on a bunch of these latest administrations.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
What's your tactical sense, Jeff, of the ability to bring
home any of the remaining hostages.
Speaker 5 (27:20):
You know, I'll answer. You know. One of the reasons
I'm here, Buck is because throughout my career I spent
a lot of time in Israel exchanging ideas and techniques
and tactics and even information and intelligence, and we tried
to learn from each other on what we were doing
and how we were successful in different arenas, And I
couldn't be more impressed and proud with this with this
(27:41):
very young defense force, on how they are working combined
arms maneuver, how how they are integrating what they're doing
above ground and below ground, and the learning curve that
that they've that created over the last few months. But
I think people believe there are there are one hundred
one messages still missing. We believe that there's probably less
(28:04):
than half of them still alive. And every day that
goes by, it becomes more and more risky. So the
IDF day and night are continuing to clear these tunnels.
And one thing I'll add that I thought found interesting.
You know what these tunnels I learned yesterday. These tunnels
weren't made for fighting. They were made for survival and
logistics and movement. So once you understand how to occupy
(28:27):
those tunnels, the movement goes fast. Now hamas is learning
as well. So as as these tunnels were first beating
the IDF, the IDF figured out how to solve that problem.
But now there's this pivot where the remaining hamas are
starting to make these tunnels booby trapped and rigged to
blow with cameras, so it's slowed down the movement again,
(28:49):
and it's very, very risky inside these tunnels as they've
been created over the last twenty years, includes cages and
jail cells for these hostages in secret hiding places to
put them. So every day that goes by, it becomes
less and less likely that we'll be able to save
more of these sausages. But it is firmly in my
(29:12):
opinion that the IDF is doing everything they can at
a very high professional level, to do with the best
that they can.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Jeff, do we have any idea what percentage of the
tunnel network has been uncovered discovered in any way by
the IDF yet, or do they even have a sense
for how much there is underground at this point?
Speaker 5 (29:35):
It's absolutely staggering. So some of the numbers that I
have in front of me that I wrote down was
over eighteen hundred underground shafts have been destroyed. So you know,
they destroy some of the shafts and then they'll enter
through some of these shafts and begin to clear these tunnels.
The one division that we were attached to yesterday, over
(29:55):
the last few months they've cleared over two thousand kilometers
of tunnels under Gaza, and they're drilling endlessly to try
to identify more of these tunnels. And the morning that
we went into Rafa yesterday, they had pumped into a
new tunnel last night and they were just clearing it today.
(30:16):
So the tunnel network is vast. I think they're believing
that they have about eighty percent of the tunnels mapped,
not necessarily that they've been inspected, but that they have
about eighty percent mapped, and they're just trying to take
it systematically. And I don't think it comes as any surprise,
but when you see it with your own eyesbuck, every
(30:36):
single tunnel that we went to look at terminated in kindergarten,
a mosque, in a hospital. It was absolutely their standard
operating procedure. And the other thing that was kind of
weird that you don't think about is these tunnels also
terminated right in the homes of these hamas leaders. So
just like you and I would get up in the
morning and have our morning coffee and maybe you walk
(30:59):
over to the home office, these guys were walking straight
from their homes down into these tunnels and going straight
to work. The network is amazing and it just can't
happen again. We gave them in two thousand and five
free autonomy to do whatever it is they wanted to do.
In Gaza, they decided to purge it of Fatah and
(31:19):
any any you know, reasonable group of from the Palestinian authority.
And for twenty years they've been systematically with one thing
in mind, and that was the October seventh barbarism. And Jeff, this.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Is what I have to ask you real quick, I'm
just well, look on a minute. I mean, you went
muzzle to muzzle sure with al Qaeda, with that, you know,
with the bad guys of the war on terror. Is
the evil that you have seen from Hamas by being
there and seeing the tunnels and seeing the videos reminiscent
of what you saw with AQI and these other groups.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
This this is the purest evil I've ever seen. I mean,
these these these Amas terrorists went in and it was
just wholesale murder. They slaughtered families, men, women, children, the
old and the videos that we watch buck they're gleeful,
they're singing, they're dancing, they're calling home telling their mom
and dad what they had just done with killing these
(32:16):
dogs or killing these pigs. So that the combination of
the glee and the just the free for all fun
that these terrorists were having, and the barbers of the blood,
the beheading, the rapes, when you actually see it, the
live videos that they had on their body cams, it's
I've never seen anything like it.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Jeff, honestly can't thank you enough for your service to
our country for decades and also today for bringing this
ground truth to all of us about this war that
Israel is waging against the Hamas terrorists. Thank you for
being with us. It's always good to talk to you,
my friend.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Sometimes all you can do is laugh, and they do
a lot of it the Sunday Hang Join Clay and
Buck as they laugh it up in the Clay and
Buck podcast feed on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Welcome back in Clay, Travis Buck Sexton Show.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Jeff.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
T's amazing they're taking us into Israel the tunnels. I
imagine in December when I am over there doing a
week of shows that we will see some of these places.
But for a guy like that Buck to say this
is the most profound evil he's ever seen. He's seen
a lot of bad stuff, and for him on the
(33:37):
ground in Israel to describe what he is seeing again
as the most evil that he has ever seen in
his life. I think really brings home how absurd it
is that substantial portions of America, including lots of people
on the left, lots of people on college campuses right now,
are demanding that Israel stop right now defending itself and
(33:58):
trying to rescue and save the hostages that are still there.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's obvious. Look, I've had a
lot of people. I live in Miami Beach. We have
a thriving Jewish community down here, and I will say
it's been very gratifying that I've had people who just
listening to the show come up to me on the
street here. Most of the listeners who come up to
Miami Beach are Jewish. It's interesting. When I lived in
Miami or sort of Miami City, it was more Latin listeners.
But I've you know, Jewish listeners, although they're Jewish Latin
(34:26):
people too, But anyway, they come up me and they
just say, I really appreciate you and Clay being so
both forceful and consistent on this issue, because they all
they all knew. They knew that Biden as soon as
the politics started to change, that moral clarity would would evaporate.
So that's that's what has happened, because it was just
about political positioning for the Democrats the whole time, whereas
(34:49):
a lot of us on the right. By the way,
some of these are Democrats who have come up and
they tell me that Democrats who say, I appreciate you
being on the side of the righteous when it comes
to this whole fight against Hamas clayd. I also wanted
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Speaker 3 (36:16):
I'm seeing a lot of good numbers for Trump and
I can't wait. I cannot wait for this Tuesday debate
because I think Trump has the potential if he does well,
to kind of put this thing to bed and to
really start to panic on Kamala Harris, but keep the
fight going. Numbers coming out of Pennsylvania continue to look good.
(36:36):
Crazily buck in North Carolina, people start getting ballots tomorrow.
Election season is here. It's time to get your votes in.
We got sixty days and we're sprinting through the finish line.
Thanks for hanging with us. We'll see tomorrow.
Third hour Clay and bought kicks off. Now, our friend
Julie Kelly back in the mix. She is the author
of the declassified sub stack, which you should go check out,
go subscribe to it, doing a lot of work on
the law fair, the K six defendants and more. She's
in DC. And my understanding, Julie is you just left
(00:22):
the courthouse. What were you there for? And what is
the latest of the ongoing law fair against Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hey, guys, so I was there this morning. This is
the first hearing in more than ten months in Special
Council Jacksmiths January sixth related indictment of Donald Trump. Of course,
the proceedings have been on hold as Judge Tiny Chutkins's
immunity opinion, which denied the president immunity from presidential from
(00:50):
excuse me, criminal prosecution, moved through the Appella Court and then,
of course the Supreme Court, which came back on July
first with its landmark opinion in Trump versus is the US,
outlining basically three separate buckets of immunity. So now that
the court, the Supreme Court handed that down, Jack Smith
had to address it. In his old indictment. He cut
(01:12):
nine pages from it because the Supreme Court said all
of Donald Trump's communications with his Department of Justice were
of course well within his core powers constitutional powers. So
Jacksmith had to cut nine pages. He dropped a co conspirator,
Jeffrey Clark, who was with the boj at the time.
Jack Smith filing a superseding indictment last week and basically
(01:35):
restarting the proceedings, and that was the basis of this
hearing today. What the next steps are will be in
this case.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Julie, this is all chaotic. I think it's hard for
people to follow. I mentioned earlier. I want to hit
this one and we'll come back to DC. But I'm
sure you saw Fanny Willis and Nathan Wade together again
showing up at Fanny Willis's daughter, I believe was arrested
for a traffic violation, and Nathan Wade, who supposedly isn't
(02:08):
involved with Fanny Willis anymore, she testified under oath that
their relationship was done. Now maybe they rekindled that romance,
if you want to be kind to her, and so
she didn't lie under oath, but.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
I thought it was real. Soon to the soap opera
here way, Well, I mean, look, I mean, and.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
It feels so good.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Come on, all you had to do was not sleep
with the person that you hired to try to put
Trump in prison, and that case may well have been
able to go to trial. I mean, it's really the
incompetence is kind of amazing. But I thought it was
emblematic of sort of the incompetence that has existed, whether
it's Jack Smith getting the case tossed in South Florida
(02:46):
having to do a superseding indictment, and now Alvin Bragg
Fanny Willis. We also have, in addition to what's going
on with Judge Chutkins's courtroom, and I'm gonna ask you
about her sort of mindset. What do you think is
going to happen with Judge Merchand because now he's got
to make a decision and it's a pretty big one
what to do with Trump. I saw there was a
(03:09):
hagiogur at the profile of just.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Remind everybody real quickly that we're talking about New York
City now, where the just soever? Because we're moving around
to cases and judges here the idiot sentence.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
It's so messy when you look at all this, Julie,
what do you think they're going to do in New
York City.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Look, I think we talked about this maybe last week,
and I've tweeted this, and that is these judges and
prosecutors don't care. They don't care if higher courts come
in and I saw that today with Judge Chuckkin. They
don't care if they're humiliated at the appellate level or
the Supreme Court. These prosecutors don't care if they're humiliated
(03:48):
in the press or even by their colleagues. Their only goal,
and it's is prosecutors and judges Georgia, New York, Washington.
Thank God for judging Lean Cannon and Florida. She's the exception.
If this helps to destroy Donald Trump, to help disable
or hurt him at all the election, they don't care
(04:09):
about the long term consequences. And this is what we
could talk about Judge Tony Chucktim today. They are all
on the same page. They have no respect for the
rule of law or due process, for common decency. So,
of course Jan Marshawan is going to come back on
September sixteenth. He is going to issue an order without
any hearing, without any inputs from the Department of Justice.
(04:32):
He is going to come back and say that the
Supreme Court's immunity ruling has no odds involvement, has no
part of the New York case, even though the New
York case deals with when Donald Trump was in the
White House communications he had with White House employees and officials.
He's going to come back and single handedly say no,
(04:53):
none of this is covered under the Supreme Court immunity ruling.
And two days later won't even be enough time for
Donald Trump's lawyers to file an emergency appeal. Any immunity
decision is automatically appealed, and it puts the proceedings on today.
They'll barely have time to file that appeal before two
(05:13):
days later, on September eighteenth, Marshan is supposed to sentence
Donald Trump for his convictions. He doesn't care if he
gets overturned later. He really these judges do not care.
That is the frightening aspect of all of this. And
so you cannot expect good behavior from Fanny Willis, or
good behavior from Jan Marshon, or even just do your
(05:36):
job the ways that we expect you to. There's no
consequences for them, and even long term if they're overturned
by the courses. I said, they don't care because their
short term goals will have been achieved.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Prepare for Trump to be sentenced to prison. On September
eighteenth was the article that Anny McCarthy wrote up at
Fox News. What do you think about that? Really? I mean,
you're kind of leading up to it, but I feel
like we needed to say this out loud. Do you
really think that Judge Mrchan is willing to do that?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I mean, I think we've discussed this before. You can't
put anything past him because he has acted so badly,
of course, totally compromised with his daughter's involvement in democratic politics,
made at least thirteen million dollars while her father was
presiding over the Trump case, raking in at least thirteen
(06:28):
million from Trump meeting Democrats, including Adam Schiff, and then
preaking a gap order on Donald Trumper. He can't even
make public statements about her. And then you had the
federal court a judge also deny. Last week, Donald Trump's
moved to remove the case from a state court to
(06:49):
federal court, where it belongs because this deals with federal conduct.
Now it deals with the Supreme Court ruler. You had
a ninety year old Clinton judge who probably didn't even
read the Supreme Court immunity rule, probably didn't even read
the motion to move it from state to federal court.
Immediately deny that. I mean, Donald Trump simply cannot get
any release from any of these judges or prosecutors, except
(07:13):
of course judging in Cannon, who dismissed the document's case
last month, or excuse me in July based on the
unconstitutional appointment of Jack Smith, but other in any other
scenario here, in any of these trials, and this extends
to the Jay sixers, and we could talk about this later.
These judges and prosecutors have no respect for the rules
(07:34):
block or the Constitution for due process rights. They are
all just partisan actors. And this is and they are
setting very dangerous precedents in the process.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
You mentioned in the January six ers. It seems that
despite the Supreme Court ruling about an excessive use of
a Sarbines Oxley based charge to try to put people
behind bars for as long as possible, that most judges
are not really applying the Supreme Court precedent in a
(08:05):
way that they should, in my breeding, in a beneficial
way for most jan six defendants. With that in mind,
I know Trump has talked about pardoning many of those
jan six defendants.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Do you think you will? Do you think he should?
And I don't mean everybody.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Some people legitimately attacked police officers, they engaged in actual
acts of violence. But grandma's with selfie sticks who walked
into the capitol and got charged with crimes. I mean,
you would know better than me, Julie, But I would
think ninety five percent of these people that there's no
doubt Trump should pardon them if he's elected.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Absolutely, And I think the lowest hanging fruit would be
those who are convicted of the misdemeanor offenses because those
simply have never been applied in a federal capacity to
any political protesters in Washington. Those people, all of them,
and this represents overwhelming majority of cases, are just these
four federal misdemeanors. All of those defendants should be pardoned. Then,
(09:02):
of course you go to those who were convicted or
created guilty to the fifteen twelve C two obstruction what
you were just recurring to again overturned by the Supreme
Court in June. All of those people should be, of
course pardoned for that. I would take it a step further,
civil disorder, other nonviolent offenses, those people should be pardoned
as well. Then you could separate out people who attack
(09:25):
police officers. Now is throwing a water bottle attacking a
police officer that should land someone in prison for six years.
So what I think the next step is to look
at that bachelor of defendant and then compare that to
similar cases in Washington, d C. Where you have people
who attack police officers all the time. We just saw
(09:46):
this in the Prohamas demonstrations a few months ago, attacking
federal police. Those people have not even been arrested or charged,
let alone had the books fromit them. So then the
president will have to look at comparable case and those
sentences and almost all of them should be commuted because
there's just no comparison between people who've attacked federal officers
(10:08):
during a political protest, whether it's twenty seventeen, twenty twenty,
twenty twenty one, or certainly this year or early late
last year. That there has to be equity in how
the law is applied in Washington. But that is not happening.
And every time I come here, you guys, I am
more disgusted and truly heartbroken in a way at what
(10:31):
I see happen in the CC courthouse. They basically judges
are saying back to the Fisher fifteen Twelvey two. They
are saying to J. Sixers, the criminal Code and the
Federal sentencing guidance never anticipated an event like January sixth,
so they can basically make up laws, they can misapply
(10:52):
the law, They can ignore limits in federal sentencing guidance
to exact maximum punishment on J. Sixers, even to the
point of ignoring the Supreme Court, which is what they're
doing because they want to send a message, like Marrick
Garland has said, this will not be tolerated. If you
try to protest again the election in Washington, the twenty
(11:13):
twenty four results, this is what will happen to you.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Truly, I have to ask you, you know, because there's
some back you know, back channel chatter going on among
a bunch of people I know on the right that
while we see all this Russia Russia stuff as just
the most obvious and conveniently timed political manipulation in advance
of the election, that maybe there's more stuff going on.
(11:39):
We know what happened to Trump, we know about the
abuse offiza, we know about the whole weaponization of the
deep state. It's still there, and now they've got a
Democrat president. Do you have any concerns, given the return
of you know, Russia collusion three point zero or whatever
we're calling it, that we're just seeing the beginning of this.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Possibly because you know that they will use that, just
as they did in twenty twenty, to suppress and information,
to suppress free expression. I believe the indictment, and I
haven't had a chance because I've been here covering this
deals with if you make negative comments about immigration or inflation,
that somehow that is going to be Russian disinformation, just
(12:21):
like we thought about Hunter's laptop, just like we thought
about criticism of absence ye voting in twenty twenty. But
it's stunning to me the same DJ claiming the Russians
are trying to interfere in our election, having Jack Smith
and at least eight other federal prosecutors in a DC
courtroom this morning advancing an indictment, a weak, watered down
(12:45):
indictment that will ultimately be tossed, keeping that indictment in
play now sixty days away from election day, and having
a federal judge, judge time touch an Obama appointees, stay
out loud. Election has no consideration in my courtroom. The
electoral schedule will have no impact on my trial schedule,
(13:07):
on hearing schedule moving forward. It is not a factor
in my courtroom. That's what she said. So the same
Dooja warning about what now you know more Russia, Russia,
Russia vagrantly allowing their own department and special council, unconstitutional
special council, by the way, advancing this indictment, keeping Donald
(13:28):
Trump's lawyers in court, and also keeping this phony, bogus
indictment in the headline.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Julie Kelly, everybody declassified is your sub stack. You just
walked out of the courtroom down there in DC doing
the most on the front lines engagement with this lawfair stuff,
reporting on this lawfair stuff of anybody. Julie. Thank you
so much. Great to have you as always. Thank you, Julie.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Sorry, I'm fired up, guys, but thank you for having.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
We like fired up, Julie, stay fired up. We'll talk
to you. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks, guys, Calling
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Speaker 4 (15:31):
Use and politics, but also a little comic relief.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Clay Travis at buck Sexton find.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get
your podcast.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all
of you hanging out with us as we are rolling
through the program. We're going to head down to or
out to Israel and get the absolute latest there from
Jeff Tigue's a friend of yours here in a minute, Buck,
But I do think putting a bow on what Julie
Kelly just hold all of us. I mentioned earlier the
(16:02):
Fanny Willis Nathan Wade mess I think that case is
going to end up getting tossed on appeal because I
think it's implicated by the Supreme Court decision even though
it's a state matter. But when Trump wins and I
say win because I believe he is going to win,
and he drops all of these cases, one of the
(16:25):
fascinating things that's going to be kind of at play
buck is remember Jack Smith can still try to do
things with these cases in November, December, and January, after
the actual election has taken place. Now, I think the
practical impact is they're going to toss much of this
(16:45):
and just kind of put it on the back burner
because it's blown up in their face. But I do
think we need to spend some time talking about the
decision that Judge Merchand's going to have to make on
September eighteenth, and I think it could be impacted by
how the presidential race is going in the way of
the debate in terms of his decision making.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
To be clear, Andy McCarthy's and we should probably have
him back before the sentencing. There we go. Andy said
in his peace that, oh, Clay, I think I talked
to him about this while you were out by the way,
and then you and Julie talked aboutself last ye. Yes, Well,
he said that Merchan's got a sentence Trump to prison,
but he won't be taken into custody pending appeal. So
(17:26):
you get Trump sentenced to prison without actually all that
stuff about like oh, we can't he go to Rikers
or whatever. Forget all that. He'll be released on his
own recognissance until appeal, which gets us past the election.
But you will have Trump sent otherwise. What was this
all about? As far as the lunatic communists are concerned,
they're gonna say, give him a fine. That was a
(17:46):
fine hour community. First of all, Trumpet community service would
be amazing, the best server of the community.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
What merchand should do we talk about this maybe a
little bit tomorrow, is they should certainly push all of
this till after the election. But I'm curious to see
how he's going to respond to it. Look, if you
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Speaker 1 (18:53):
Welcome back in to Clay and Buck live from Israel
with us right now overseas, We've got our friend, Jeff Tigues.
Jeff spent twenty five years in the Special Operations community.
He was a Delta Squadron commander. He has tremendous experience
(19:13):
in military and national security affairs. He just today met
with Prime Minister Benjamin at Yahoo and also with the
Defense Minister of Israel. Jeff, first of all, just tell us,
tell us about the mission set over there and what
you've learned so far.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
Well, Bob, thanks a lot for having me. It's great
to connect with you again. You know, just a few
weeks ago, this organization that I hadn't heard of before
the European Leadership Network reached out to me. They were
looking for a couple of Americans to join them on
this military expert panel that consists of mostly Brits but
a couple of Aussies, an officer from Romania and France,
(19:51):
and I had no idea we were we would be
given this level of access. So we've really gone from
the tactical briefings. We surveyed the sites of the October
seventh attack in Israel, We went to a couple of
the kid we'd seen, and went to where the Nova festival.
We got some really detailed briefings on how this attack
was actually pulled off. We saw some video that that
(20:13):
has not been seen before. So from the tactical level,
we've had some incredible access, and we have also been
briefed by some of the commanders on the ground, the
commander that just was replaced, who has really the one
who really became the groundbreaking pioneer on how to integrate
the fight within Gaza above ground and below ground. And
(20:34):
then yesterday we were actually able to have a military
escort from the IDF to survey what is actually happening
in Gaza the fight.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
So you were in Gaza yesterday.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
Probably we were in Gaza yesterday, Yeah, and we followed
the Philadelphia quarrider from the Rafa entrance all the way
down to Swedish Village to the sea. We were able
to survey some of the tunnels that they have found.
We were able to survey some of the old fighting
positions and even some of the some of the homes
that continue to stand, and really get a good glimpse
(21:06):
of what the Israeli defense forces are dealing with. And
then we cap that off today from a lot of
this tactical evaluation to really hearing straight from the sources,
both with the Minister Defense and Prime Minister net Nyahu
on where they see going forward and what their strategies
are to defeat Hamas once and for all.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Jeff, I'm going to be over there in December, and
I think I'm going to see much of what you
are seeing now. When you see what Hamas is still
doing in terms of holding hostages and certainly executing hostages,
six of them, including an American, is it even more
unbelievable to you that there is any suggestion that Israel
(21:50):
should cease fire or stop what they're doing to try
to get their people back and also protect them from
another October seventh ever happening again.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
It's it's mind boggling that anyone thinks that that is
a realistic option. You know. Part of the defenses, and
you know, when you look at the success that Hamas
had on October seventh, part of that was the expectation
that they just wouldn't do something so barbaric, you know,
that the world would turn their back on something this medieval,
and the world supported Israel in a very very short time.
(22:24):
And then the information operations campaign that Hamas and has
Balond the other proxies and through Iran was able to
twist this story. So the barbarism was even at a
higher level than I was aware of. It's so complicated
on how they're continuing to fight. So really the primary
focus has been to defeat Hamas as an army. We
call about we talk about Hamas as a terror organization,
(22:47):
but it was actually a terror army and it is
almost decimated. There is there is about a thousand Hamas
left that they can that they think exists. Probably half
of them have already escaped God, so they're really down
to just tiny pockets of resistance and they're continuing to
search for these hostages, but it's always been a race
(23:08):
for time. But it really is an untenable even discussion
to give up the Philadelphia Corridor because the hundreds and
hundreds of tunnels, the size, the scale and the scope
of them. There's no question how Hamas aren't There's no
question where they got their munitions. It was all coming
in through Egypt, and that is the single line of
(23:30):
defense that Israel has to control.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Speaking of Jeff Tigue's former Special Operations Community, and he's
part of this delegation of military experts, this panel that
has been meeting with the highest levels of the Israeli government,
and he was just in Gaza yesterday telling us about
the Philadelphi Corridor and what he saw there in terms
of the tunnel networks. Jeff, how much? And I know
(23:55):
you know you spoke to net Yahoo, you spoke to
the Defense Minister. So to the degree you can let
us in on some of the high level there, please do.
I know you probably have to respect some confidentiality equities
as well, but to whatever degree you can tell us
about their vision of where this is going next, or
even just what you see as the final stages of
(24:16):
this war against Hamas that was kicked off with their
mass casualty terror attack on October seventh.
Speaker 5 (24:23):
Yes, and I think ironically, Buck, you know, one of
the only criticism we had to share with Israel is
that they're losing the IO campaign. Yes, there were mistakes
that were made as far as the early warning and
how far Hamasu it was able to advance with their
terror attack, But they've got to be more open with
the public and the press, and so hopefully you'll be
(24:45):
getting some calls yourself for them to talk to you
about this in person. But they recognize that this is
the first year of probably a ten year war and
they're trying to limit the front. So right now they're
being threatened out of God's that they're being threatened by
the Woi's in the south, they're being threatened by heads
belond the north, they're surrounded by Syria, They're continuing to
be rocketed by Iran.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
You know.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
Lebanon is you know, trying to play both sides. So
they've got a multifront war and they're trying to take
it piece by piece. They don't want to have a
multifront war, so they're trying to prioritize what it is
they're doing. But obviously, like you know, to defeat Hamas
and recover the hostages is sometimes at loggerheads, and that's
what they're trying to deal with. So they're in this
(25:29):
for the long haul. They're really trying to find answers
on what happens with the day after, but there are
very very few good solutions.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Jeff, is it fair to say that Hamas is desperately
rooting for Kamala Harris to win this race?
Speaker 5 (25:45):
You know, I hate to say this, but I'm going
to have to admit the answer is yes. You know,
I'm not a politician. I'm a soldier. I'm aware of politics,
and as a civilian i'm involved in it. But you know,
having been over here and really talk to folks and
watch the degradation from some of these other administrations on
how we've really cooled relations with Israel, we've begun to
(26:08):
be real critical of Israel. You know, one of these
pivotal reasons that Hamas attacked when it did was because
they saw Israel as weak, They saw the West as weak,
they saw our ties and tenuous. And this wasn't just
initially designed to be a terror attack that was stopped.
These Hamas fighters had plans and maps and logistical support
(26:30):
to be in Israel over a month and to get
all the way to Tel Aviv, and they thought if
they could get an encroachment into Israel and just wreak
enough havoc. They were expecting has a Lot to attack
from the north. They were expecting Iran to jump in.
They were expecting Juday and Sumaria, which we call the
West Bank, to be internal fires. So while there was
(26:51):
some incredible military terror successes by Jimas's there was, this
did not become a regional conflict. We have got to
continue to demonstrate our stalwart support for Israel, and they're
really feeling the strain, and they've been feeling the strain
on a bunch of these latest administrations.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
What's your tactical sense, Jeff, of the ability to bring
home any of the remaining hostages.
Speaker 5 (27:20):
You know, I'll answer. You know. One of the reasons
I'm here, Buck is because throughout my career I spent
a lot of time in Israel exchanging ideas and techniques
and tactics and even information and intelligence, and we tried
to learn from each other on what we were doing
and how we were successful in different arenas, And I
couldn't be more impressed and proud with this with this
(27:41):
very young defense force, on how they are working combined
arms maneuver, how how they are integrating what they're doing
above ground and below ground, and the learning curve that
that they've that created over the last few months. But
I think people believe there are there are one hundred
one messages still missing. We believe that there's probably less
(28:04):
than half of them still alive. And every day that
goes by, it becomes more and more risky. So the
IDF day and night are continuing to clear these tunnels.
And one thing I'll add that I thought found interesting.
You know what these tunnels I learned yesterday. These tunnels
weren't made for fighting. They were made for survival and
logistics and movement. So once you understand how to occupy
(28:27):
those tunnels, the movement goes fast. Now hamas is learning
as well. So as as these tunnels were first beating
the IDF, the IDF figured out how to solve that problem.
But now there's this pivot where the remaining hamas are
starting to make these tunnels booby trapped and rigged to
blow with cameras, so it's slowed down the movement again,
(28:49):
and it's very, very risky inside these tunnels as they've
been created over the last twenty years, includes cages and
jail cells for these hostages in secret hiding places to
put them. So every day that goes by, it becomes
less and less likely that we'll be able to save
more of these sausages. But it is firmly in my
(29:12):
opinion that the IDF is doing everything they can at
a very high professional level, to do with the best
that they can.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Jeff, do we have any idea what percentage of the
tunnel network has been uncovered discovered in any way by
the IDF yet, or do they even have a sense
for how much there is underground at this point?
Speaker 5 (29:35):
It's absolutely staggering. So some of the numbers that I
have in front of me that I wrote down was
over eighteen hundred underground shafts have been destroyed. So you know,
they destroy some of the shafts and then they'll enter
through some of these shafts and begin to clear these tunnels.
The one division that we were attached to yesterday, over
(29:55):
the last few months they've cleared over two thousand kilometers
of tunnels under Gaza, and they're drilling endlessly to try
to identify more of these tunnels. And the morning that
we went into Rafa yesterday, they had pumped into a
new tunnel last night and they were just clearing it today.
(30:16):
So the tunnel network is vast. I think they're believing
that they have about eighty percent of the tunnels mapped,
not necessarily that they've been inspected, but that they have
about eighty percent mapped, and they're just trying to take
it systematically. And I don't think it comes as any surprise,
but when you see it with your own eyesbuck, every
(30:36):
single tunnel that we went to look at terminated in kindergarten,
a mosque, in a hospital. It was absolutely their standard
operating procedure. And the other thing that was kind of
weird that you don't think about is these tunnels also
terminated right in the homes of these hamas leaders. So
just like you and I would get up in the
morning and have our morning coffee and maybe you walk
(30:59):
over to the home office, these guys were walking straight
from their homes down into these tunnels and going straight
to work. The network is amazing and it just can't
happen again. We gave them in two thousand and five
free autonomy to do whatever it is they wanted to do.
In Gaza, they decided to purge it of Fatah and
(31:19):
any any you know, reasonable group of from the Palestinian authority.
And for twenty years they've been systematically with one thing
in mind, and that was the October seventh barbarism. And Jeff, this.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Is what I have to ask you real quick, I'm
just well, look on a minute. I mean, you went
muzzle to muzzle sure with al Qaeda, with that, you know,
with the bad guys of the war on terror. Is
the evil that you have seen from Hamas by being
there and seeing the tunnels and seeing the videos reminiscent
of what you saw with AQI and these other groups.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
This this is the purest evil I've ever seen. I mean,
these these these Amas terrorists went in and it was
just wholesale murder. They slaughtered families, men, women, children, the
old and the videos that we watch buck they're gleeful,
they're singing, they're dancing, they're calling home telling their mom
and dad what they had just done with killing these
(32:16):
dogs or killing these pigs. So that the combination of
the glee and the just the free for all fun
that these terrorists were having, and the barbers of the blood,
the beheading, the rapes, when you actually see it, the
live videos that they had on their body cams, it's
I've never seen anything like it.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Jeff, honestly can't thank you enough for your service to
our country for decades and also today for bringing this
ground truth to all of us about this war that
Israel is waging against the Hamas terrorists. Thank you for
being with us. It's always good to talk to you,
my friend.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Sometimes all you can do is laugh, and they do
a lot of it the Sunday Hang Join Clay and
Buck as they laugh it up in the Clay and
Buck podcast feed on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Welcome back in Clay, Travis Buck Sexton Show.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Jeff.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
T's amazing they're taking us into Israel the tunnels. I
imagine in December when I am over there doing a
week of shows that we will see some of these places.
But for a guy like that Buck to say this
is the most profound evil he's ever seen. He's seen
a lot of bad stuff, and for him on the
(33:37):
ground in Israel to describe what he is seeing again
as the most evil that he has ever seen in
his life. I think really brings home how absurd it
is that substantial portions of America, including lots of people
on the left, lots of people on college campuses right now,
are demanding that Israel stop right now defending itself and
(33:58):
trying to rescue and save the hostages that are still there.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's obvious. Look, I've had a
lot of people. I live in Miami Beach. We have
a thriving Jewish community down here, and I will say
it's been very gratifying that I've had people who just
listening to the show come up to me on the
street here. Most of the listeners who come up to
Miami Beach are Jewish. It's interesting. When I lived in
Miami or sort of Miami City, it was more Latin listeners.
But I've you know, Jewish listeners, although they're Jewish Latin
(34:26):
people too, But anyway, they come up me and they
just say, I really appreciate you and Clay being so
both forceful and consistent on this issue, because they all
they all knew. They knew that Biden as soon as
the politics started to change, that moral clarity would would evaporate.
So that's that's what has happened, because it was just
about political positioning for the Democrats the whole time, whereas
(34:49):
a lot of us on the right. By the way,
some of these are Democrats who have come up and
they tell me that Democrats who say, I appreciate you
being on the side of the righteous when it comes
to this whole fight against Hamas clayd. I also wanted
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(35:09):
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Speaker 3 (36:16):
I'm seeing a lot of good numbers for Trump and
I can't wait. I cannot wait for this Tuesday debate
because I think Trump has the potential if he does well,
to kind of put this thing to bed and to
really start to panic on Kamala Harris, but keep the
fight going. Numbers coming out of Pennsylvania continue to look good.
(36:36):
Crazily buck in North Carolina, people start getting ballots tomorrow.
Election season is here. It's time to get your votes in.
We got sixty days and we're sprinting through the finish line.
Thanks for hanging with us. We'll see tomorrow.
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