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December 3, 2024 28 mins

In this episode, Mary Katharine and Karol discuss various topics ranging from their Thanksgiving experiences to the political implications of Hunter Biden's pardon. They delve into the dynamics of parenting, media reactions, and the implications of Trump's appointments, particularly Kash Patel to the FBI. The conversation also touches on societal issues such as dating culture and gender dynamics. Normally is part of the CLay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Tuesday & thursday

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Eighty guys, we are back on normally the show with
normal ish takes for when the news gets weird. I
am Mary Catherine Ham.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
And I'm Carol Markowitz. I'm Mary Catherine. How is your Thanksgiving?

Speaker 1 (00:14):
You know it was good? Hectic. I went down to
the University of Georgia for an eight overtime win over
Isacillow Decads. Yeah, I was there from well, we tailgated
starting at three and then stayed at the game till
midnight plus so, and then I did not party downtown
because I don't do that anymore.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Well, that's a mistake, clearly. At least you got the win, right,
The W's all that matters.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
I have a habit of going to fairly legendary games
by accident. I didn't think that was going to be
a legendary game, but here we are. So I made
it back and now we're in the in our house.
We're in the like Christmas March because one once December
first hits. Man, we are fully booked.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
I love it. Yeah. Is your tree up it? Or
is long?

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Is not up? We are working on that for hopefully
by Wednesday we'll have that done.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
All right, send pictures.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
I will I will.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
So we come back from the weekend to the news
that Joe Biden, in a surprise to absolutely no one,
pardoned his son Hunter And he didn't just pardon him
of the things that Hunter has been accused of. He
has pardoned him a blanket parden for eleven years for
crimes we may not even know about yet. Yeah. Yeah,

(01:31):
so again, that wasn't a surprise to most people, but
some people were shocked. And were you surprised?

Speaker 1 (01:37):
I was, I guess, yeah, I was not surprised. I
think again. I think I've said this before, but self
regard is very blinding. And so if you believe that
your side is without issues, and you believe and you've
talked yourself into the idea that Joe Biden is the
avatar of honesty and politics, I suppose you could talk

(01:59):
yourself into the idea. He wasn't going to do this,
but I just didn't see how that was going to happen.
He was at least going to commute the sentence that
Hunter Biden got for his crimes, of which he was
convicted by a jury, right, and by the way, they
weren't made up statutes sort of. Frankenstein in the felonies
like Donald Trump's were they were not traditional ones. It

(02:21):
was like, because it turns out, Carol, I don't know
if you know, but if you put like hookers in
blow on your deductions for your taxes, like I doesn't
like that. They don't like that, they don't like that.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
I think of you as so like not cursing and
hookers and blow.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Sorry I went there in the beginning of the podcast.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
I like it.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
You sort of have to to talk about Hunter Biden, right, Like,
I can't do this thing where I'm just going to
pretend that he's something he's not because that's what the
Left asks of me, and I'm not going to pretend
that I can't see exactly what was going on with
Hunter and Joe meddling influence throughout this entire thing, which
by the way, doesn't feel like vindication. This date of

(03:03):
twenty fourteen is so interestingly exactly the time that he
joined Barisma, the Ukrainian energy company, obviously as a renowned
Ukrainian energy expert, Hunter Biden, where he got paid ludicrous
amounts of money, and we were all saying or yeah,
they were all saying, like it feels like there's something

(03:23):
weird going on here, and now I think we have
our answer that there's definitely something weird.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
That's it.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
You know.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
The thing is also all these people who defended him
and said he would never pardon his son ever. That's
that's what makes our sides so special and unique and different.
It's like, just don't love politicians this much. It's not normal.
It's not normal to love politicians. I again, have lots
of politicians that I, you know, respect or admire or whatever,

(03:50):
but I know they're going to do things to annoy
me and piss me off and upset me and disappoint me.
I mean, I'll just say I was a big Sarah
Palin fan. So yeah, I've been on this wild ride.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yes, I understand now. I think that the entire thing
is just I occasionally say that I think we're in
an abusive relationship, like an emotionally abusive relationship with the
press and Democrats. And this is yet another example where
the gaslighting is so intense from this guy who's like,
you know what, the justice system was used improperly against

(04:27):
my son. So I have to first of all, who's
justice system is it? You're the deal, Yeah, this is
your DOJ right, and then to the extent that it
was used improperly on Hunter Biden. It was to excuse
his crimes, it was to help him get out of them,
to pass the statute of limitations, to shut up people

(04:48):
who brought forth information about his crimes. And in the
end they got caught in court, the government Joe Biden's
DOJ doing a way too generous plea deal that a
judge was like, wait, run that by me again, right,
And they couldn't get away with it because of this
judge who flagged it because they tried to hand Hunter

(05:11):
Biden the thing that Joe Biden's been handing him his
whole life, which is a take it out of jail
free right.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
So that's actually it's funny. I tweeted today about how
this kind of behavior has obviously been nothing but terrible
for Hunter Biden, and then I saw that you tweeted
something very similar to last night. I'm glad our parenting
style of lines. You can't give kids passes their whole
entire lives and then expect them to turn out Okay,

(05:38):
that's just not how it goes. So I think this
is the latest in the pardoning that he's gotten. This
one's a little more official than the ones he's gotten
his whole entire life from his parents. But it's just
a bad way to raise your kids, and you're going
to get a bad out.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah. I'm a little uncomfortable with this line that this
is like the love of a father. No more than
a little uncomfortable with this is the love of a father,
and this is what good parents do. There's plenty to
be said for Grace. I know the prodigal Sons her story.
But as you say, Carol, the reason he's here is
because his father has bailed him out of every bad

(06:14):
decision at every turn his entire life, which created a
person who needed a presidential pardon. And I reject that
that is love that is helpful to your children. Yep,
it's just not, you know.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
Side note to this. Over the weekend story broke that
Pete Hecss's mom send him emails while he was going
through a divorce, really criticizing his treatment of women, and
people are like, well, this is disqualifying. The mom has
said that, you know, she basically takes it back and
they have a good relationship now and all of that.
But that's actually good parenting to me, that is good parenting,

(06:52):
saying you are being a little dirt bag and stop that.
I think that nothing wrong with that.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
Not inviting to the state dinner, like that's Hunter's right path,
right is like, Oh, you did another insanely bad thing,
probably criminal, Why don't you come on down to the
state dinner and show off that you're still close with everybody.
I do think this business relationship between the two of
them and the influence pedaling has been almost thrown in

(07:22):
our faces during these four years. And I should note
also that this administration started with the widespread censorship and
disinformation campaign about Hunter Biden's laptop, which dealt with all
of these issues and had evidence for all of the
crimes that he's now pardoned of, and then we're bookending

(07:44):
it with this pardon for eleven years of whatever crimes
could have happened. Yeah, it's dirty, man, It's obviously dirty
on its face. It is.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
And there's definitely still people who want to defend him
because he's not Trump. And Nate Silver is getting a
lot of hate from other people on the left because
he's saying, no, this is not acceptable, and this is
not appropriate, and this just shouldn't be done, and all
these people are like, oh, Nate Silver sucks now and
he's just the worst. Andy Kazinski also is getting a

(08:17):
lot of really vile hate because you're saying this is
not acceptable and no, you know, I'm glad that they're
speaking up and saying that their side has done something wrong,
but the avalanche of comments that they're getting saying like
you should just defend Joe Biden is not that comforting
to me.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
Also, look what Joe Biden did to your party his
insistence on staying in the race. Yeah, partly because he
probably sensed that he needed to pardon his son and
maybe himself at some point and maybe his brother who else? Right,
who else is coming? That destroyed their chances to win
this presidential election over Donald Trump. I'm so mad about that.

(09:01):
I think so Dave Portnoy, who of Barstool Sports, who
endorsed Donald Trump and isn't often super political, but he
will jump in on things that annoy him and famously
just destroyed a Washington Post reporter who tried to destroy
his pizza fest up in New York. He had a
clip that I think speaks to what's annoying people like

(09:22):
Nate and Andy and people like us. Here's a little
bit of him talking about it.

Speaker 4 (09:28):
Okay, I thought I was done with political rants, but
I guess I got one more.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
This Hunter Biden thing. It's in the news. Everyone's talking
about it. Joe Biden after and the Democrats after.

Speaker 4 (09:39):
Probably saying no less than nine million, four hundred and
eighty two times unequivocally that Joe Biden would not pardon
Hunter Biden if Trump was elected.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
But the president would not pardon nor commute sensor his
son Hunter if to make sure that that is not
the way to Shangefield.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
The next six months the President's stage were not still
an now it's still an al always. Do you know
it's still a no. It will be a no. It
is a no. And I don't have anything else to add.
People he pardoned his son, No.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
He'd have to go through the jury system. Nobody's loved
the law. Blah blah blah. What's he doing? Of course
he pardons them. Of course he does know that. It's
like for eleven years, so anything he could possibly done
in the history of time he has pardoned. For now.
I'll start by saying, if if I could do that
for a loved one, a family member. I would probably
do the same thing. I won't lie about it and

(10:31):
be like, yeah, I'm gonna protect my own no shit.

Speaker 4 (10:33):
If Trump gets elected and they're gonna make Hunter Biden
go to court and investigate them all this, yeah I'm
gonna protect him.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
But the Democrats Biden, they didn't do that. They're like, no,
what are we crazy? Now?

Speaker 5 (10:45):
This is the point of this rant, and I've been
saying it over and over and over, and why the
Democrats got slaughtered in the election because they think they're
morally superior to everybody else.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
That's it, That's really it. I think that people have
had enough, and a lot of the wokeness and the
cancel stuff really ties into that because they think we
are better. We will enforce your behavior, we will enforce
your speech and say that you're just not as good
as us, and so we have to tell you what
to do. So people have had it.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Donald Trump's bad behavior comes without the lecture, and people
that they like that better, Like they don't like being
lectured by people who are transparently dishonest jerks, Yeah, who
are violating every rule that they say that they're better
at observing and one of my favorite responses is this

(11:37):
idea that like, and it's animated the entire Trump era.
If you're a righteous Democrat or a Republican who's turned
into a Democrat because of Trump, your job is to
imagine the worst that Trump can do. And honestly, sometimes
he gives them rhetorical evidence for this and then use
it to justify doing a much worse version of the

(11:58):
thing Donald Trump is that he will do or that
you think he might. This is bad behavior and I'm
really sick of hearing about it from them.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
That's really it. They just you know, yeah, pretend that
he's going to do something, then they do worst that
you nailed it.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
Yeah, that's I mean, that's what Russiagate was, Like, I
can imagine that Trump would do this dastardly thing. Now,
let's create a situation where we bake a bunch of evidence. Meanwhile,
the hunter Biden's laptop is over here being very real. Yeah, well,
while are we told its misinformation? The whole thing is dirty.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, it's going to be four years of this kind
of thing though. They're not going to stop, I don't think. Yeah,
we will see, we'll see how it goes. But I
don't think any lessons have been learned. We've talked about
that on here before. I don't see a lot of
change or introspection. Like I said, a lot of comments
are saying, why aren't we defending Joe Biden from this?

Speaker 1 (12:57):
So, you know, looking forward to four years of this,
I know, I shudder to think what they're cooking up.
As they did Russia Gate, I think people are a
lot more wary of it. I think, yeah, we've reached
the limits of them just being like ew, that's bad. Right,
people react to it, and I don't think that's gonna
work anymore, like, oh, that's traitorous. Okay, we're gonna we're

(13:19):
gonna take a minute to figure out what's actually going
on here.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
I hope you might not be a Russian spy.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Yes, my gosh, the number of times I said that
on CNN and was looked at like I had a
third eyeball. It's like, I don't think you guys are
onto a thing here. I don't think this is real.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
We'll be right back on normally, all right.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
Speaking of trust and government, Donald Trump has made some
more appointments, one of which is quite splashy. Cash Pattel
to the head of the FBI. Now, this would have
been the only story this week, Carol, had Joe Biden
not pardoned this son Hunter Biden. And I bet that

(14:02):
the people who are lamenting, who are sort of begrudgingly
lamenting Joe Biden doing that, are annoyed that they can't
just lambast Cash Btel all day, because now Joe Biden
has given Cash Btel and Donald Trump the very reason
to say, yeah, we need a skull crusher at the FBI,

(14:24):
and this is why he's going there.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, you know, I have to say that I've been
reading up on Cash Hotel. I did not know a
lot about him, but a lot of people in my
life who I wouldn't imagine would be thrilled about this
appointment are very happy about it. Kind of who I
consider not moderates, but maybe just like very calm, sane
conservatives are saying, this is someone who is very smart

(14:49):
and can do a really good job at shaking up
an organization that needs it. So, Yeah, I think that
it's interesting that they stepped all over the Cash Totel story.
It's also interesting this constantly this feeling of like how
many of these appointments. Are the Democrats going to be
able to persuade Republican senators to vote down? And I

(15:10):
don't know. I don't know how many that's going to be.
I know that not all the appointments need Senate confirmation,
but the ones that do, it's interesting because they can't
both them all down, right, that's probably not going to happen.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
So I mean, yeah, I'm open minded. I think the
FBI quite obviously has some very big issues with politicization.
We've seen it over and over again, and no matter
how much Biden gaslights me, I understand what's happening over there,
and I do think it needs reform. And so I
want to hear from him, and I want him to

(15:42):
be asked tough questions and all the things that you
do during confirmation. But I think again, we've reached the
limit of just the Washington establishment being.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
Like this person's a clown, We are dying.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
They don't know. We're not doing that anymore. And cash
Hotel can be there to answer questions, he can be vetted. Sure,
one thing I do if you think is interesting about this,
He's like, I don't know if you saw the mini
mini dust up about the Donald Trump admit or transition
might not let the FBI vet its candidates, and I
maybe we talked about this. You can vet them other ways.

(16:13):
Other people can vet them, private entities can invent them.
Why would the Trump administration or incoming Trump administration trust
the FBI to do this. I literally spied on them
last time. Yeah, under false pretenses. So yeah, the inserns
are warranted, yes, But Patel was He was a public defender.

(16:36):
At one point. He was the chief of staff of
the U S Secretary of Defense during the first Trump presidency.
He served in the National Security Council and a senior
advisor to the acting Director of National Intelligence. So he's got,
you know, some things there. He has not been an
FBI agent, which is traditionally the path. But again, I
don't think people are looking for traditional paths right from

(16:58):
Donald Trump.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yep, they're done with that. They're done with like this
is the guy who's next in line, so he has
to take this role. I think that they've seen some
really bad things from those bureaucrats, so everybody expects to
take the position in the last four years, and I
don't know, I think they elected Donald Trump to not
be that guy, and he's very much not being that guy.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
And they're also going to have a little tizzy. So
it just should preview it over the idea that Chris Ray,
who is the current FBI director, he either has to
resign or be fired.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
He's going to be hired.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
I think it's and like Trump might end up having
to fire him. And I just want to assure everyone that, yes,
the FBI director has a ten year term. It was
put in in order to prevent the hooverism of the FBI,
so that someone serves for a long time. It's supposed
to it's supposed to detach you from politicization. Yet I
think we see that that maybe didn't work out great.

(17:52):
And the president has a right to appoint people. That's
what happens when you get elected. Chris Ray was not elected,
that's right, but Donald Trump was. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
So since our last episode, there's been a bunch of nominations,
and I think the one that we were really excited about,
though we haven't discussed don here yet, I think we
were hoping. But Jay Badashara is going to the NIH
and that's just huge. It's really karma in action. But
also he's just such a fantastic guy, and I think
he's going to do so great there. I think he

(18:21):
will bring trust back to an organization that desperately needs it.
You know, I think that that's probably I mean, I
think you tweeted it. It's your favorite pick. I think
it's you know, top three of mine as well.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, I'm very excited. It's poetic for him to go
to the organization who's head at the time, Francis Collins
and in a concert with Anthony Fauci, worked to smear
him publicly for being part of the Great Barrington Declaration.
And the Great Barrington Declaration was just like a very
simple truth speaking idea that was like, hey, I think
we'd be better off if we didn't deprive a bunch

(18:54):
of Americans of their freedom and focused our protection on
older people who are more vulnerable to this disease.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
All right, things are part super Saiyane right now. To
everybody except Taylor Lorenz. Pretty much, she's a for those
who don't know, the Washington Post columnist who's tweeted today
that she's spending thousands of dollars on a book party
to keep it COVID safe. In December twenty twenty four
you got tests to go, Yeah, you got it, and

(19:21):
the rest of us are just what did she say,
like willy nilly breathing the air. I don't remember the
exact language, but it was something like that.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
It was dirtier than that. But I've already gone dirty
once in this podcast, so I won't do it again. No,
I'm excited to see him there. He's the kind of
reformer that I appreciate. He's less of a bomb thrower.
He's a very smart, respected person. He's sort of astoundingly
mild mannered for what he went through. He's been like
sort of unfailingly kind to his critics, which I know

(19:49):
is like sometimes not the thing that my mega friends
are looking for, but amazing.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
I mean, yeah, I think sometimes you need to lay
the back down, but he is. I like that he
does it in a very thoughtful, calm manner.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
He does still lay this back down.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
It's just not you know, he doesn't curse or anything.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
But like, if you're if you're if you're building my
kind of reformer ideal, that's more in line with it
than a cashptel. Although I am, as I said, open
minded to hear from it. So so the other.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Pick that I don't know. I'm kind of mixed on
this one, but Chad Kronister for head of the DEA
and the way the reason I'm mixed on it is
because Ron DeSantis came out and defended him, and I,
you know, generally trust Ron de Santis, but like I
said earlier in the episode, I don't love politicians and
they make mistakes sometime. Connistuur is known for he arrested

(20:39):
a pasture during the COVID, you know, the beginning of COVID,
and I just think, you know, unless you've apologized, unless
you have you know, had some sort of like awakening
where you realize that what you did was really wrong,
and if you have that, I'd like to hear about that.
I just I kind of don't have a lot of
grace for those people again unless they apologize and see

(21:01):
what they did wrong and are contrite about it. But
if you're arresting a pastor, I just don't want to
see you achieve, you know, further prominence in any role.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Really yeah, to me, the COVID bad behavior and like
depriving people there's civil liberties over an infectious disease is
a signal yep, that under even mild to medium pressure,
you might be willing to do the same again, and
you need to repent before I believe that you might
not do that.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
That's really it. So I don't know why DeSantis. I
think maybe they have a good working personal relationship or whatever.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
He's a sheriff in ways in Florida, but.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
I don't know exactly where. But apparently has been kind
of helpful to DeSantis in other ways when they got
rid of the Soros back prosecutor. But nevertheless, I am
not as forgiving, so or again I am as forgiving
I am, but let me hear some contrash.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
You got to have remorse.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'm a talk forgiveness. Right, going
to take a short break and come right back with normally.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
Shall we talk about the dating scene?

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Well, yeah, let's talk about the dating scene? Sorry happened?
Whose fault was it that Trump got elected?

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Oh my gosh, you know, it's the men's fault. It's
always the men's fault, Carol. And as a podcast of
ladies that is nonetheless a fan of men.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Yeah, we like the men.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
We did want to talk about this. This is a
New York Times opinion piece how our messed up dating
culture leads to loneliness, anger, and Donald Trump. Sarah Burnstein
is the author. It's very long, by the way, but
I'm going to give you the thesis at the beginning.
Joe Rogan elon Musk representatives of pro culture are on
the ascent, bringing with them an army of disaffected young men.

(22:45):
But where did they come from? Many argue that a
generation of men are resentful because they have fallen behind
women in work, in school. I believe this shift would
not have been so destabilizing were it not for the
fact that our society still has one glass slippered foot
in the world of Cinderella, by which she means that
men men are falling behind on all of these metrics.
And she does lay that out educational attainment, their general

(23:07):
happiness in life, the economic opportunities for them, and yet
our culture does nothing but girl power. She's saying, the
real problem is that women haven't let go of their
desire to date a more successful man and marry a
more successful man.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Right, So I actually read this article as she's blaming women.
I know it's supposed to be a pro woman article,
but she ends up arguing that women should lower their standards.
I don't know. She writes that women should quote let
go of the male breadwinner norm. I mean, you know
who would be thrilled with that? Men? Men would be thrilled.
You know, the idea that men are like just dying
to like support and to be the sole breadwinner. It's

(23:44):
just come on, it's just not true.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
Well, and I think part of the part of the
issue with Democrats is that throughout this campaign they revealed,
and for throughout the last ten years, they revealed that
they don't much care for men. So she's like going
on this long journey to explain why men didn't vote
for Kamala Harris really, because that's like her actual concern

(24:10):
is that they get in line and do that. But
if you tell them that you don't like them over
and over again and that they're toxic and they're the
problem with everything, they don't want to hang out with you.
I don't understand why they have trouble understanding that.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
It's also funny that she opens it with Elon Musk
and Joe Rogan, two extremely like wildly beyond all measure
successful men, only to then talk about men who don't
succeed It's like, make the connection for me, just that
they're men, that's.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
It, Like, yeah, you know, so they're just they're just
like I mean, that's part of it is that they
are just a picture of things. She vaguely doesn't like,
right because actually Elon Musk and Joe Rogan are quite
different people, hugely different people in hugely different fields. But
she's like ew.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Right, yeah yeah, And then she's like and these these
men also, yeah, they count bone gpt on X, which
is where I saw the story in the first place,
points out that the article basically does blame women for
Trump's selection, and he says, quote, is women cause Donald
Trump to happen by doing too well after getting rights
and still demanding marry up? And this is the New

(25:18):
York Times. Like she thinks she's making a pro woman
argument here. I just don't see it.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
And I also love the idea that women have succeeded more.
We shouldn't make sure that men have equal opportunities. We
should just get women to go. I guess I'll just
throw my hands up and marry whomever right well, because
it makes them itch to think about doing anything to
make sure that men succeed. They don't like that idea

(25:47):
at all.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, but that's not the solution, Mary Catherine.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
No.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
By the way, one of the things that I keep
telling liberal friends who might be concerned about the young
men and the fact that they went right, is if
indeed we have an entire generation of disaffected young men,
who whose adolescence or early adulthood was destroyed by COVID insanity,
who spend a lot of time online, who are maybe

(26:11):
a little bit underemployed, who didn't go to college, all
these things that might lead them not to be engaged
in society. If they remain disengaged, that's bad for all
of us. You know what's good for us If they
make their disaffection known by voting for a candidate free election.
That is an extremely healthy way. Yeah, like, I think

(26:37):
I think we're actually on the right track. But because
they didn't engage by voting for Kamala Harris, right, still
scary and bad. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah, yeah, it's really something that The New York Times
has now decided that women need to just settle and,
you know, marry one of these losers and make them
vote for the right person next side.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
That sounds like such a bad recipe for both the
women and the man, like exact that, Yeah, letting go
of the male breadwinner norm is not an instant fixed
for our culture, but we can't move forward without that step.
After all, breadwinner is not only a limiting identity, it's
also a relative one. If we don't release men from
the expectation, any plan to help them regain lost ground

(27:20):
will have to also ensure that women never catch up.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
And then then there was the line in there that
was like, men are only comfortable, according to studies when
a woman makes forty percent of what they make. And
my husband sent me that and was like, I can
put aside my pride and you could make two hundred
percent of what I make.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
I'll be happy to study aside. Also, I do. I
think the idea that the New York Times can't engage
with is that it might be okay for women to
want someone who's more successful, That they might want to
not be in a traditional working role, That they might

(27:57):
want to have what they're doing at home supported by
someone who is capable of breadwinning. Like a lot of
people want that.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, they can't go there, obviously, that would be a
bridge too far. No, they're gonna get instead, they're gonna
concoct this whole other society.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
Yeah, it's like a pathology that you might have a
dude out making money and his wife at home taking
care of the house. I don't, I know, wild and crazy.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
Well, thanks for joining us on Normally. Normally airs Tuesdays
and Thursdays, and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts.
Get in touch with us at normallythepod at gmail dot com.
We love hearing from you. Thanks for listening, and when
things get weird at normally

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