December 11, 2024 • 36 mins
Daniel Penny says the trial was worth keeping people safe. Women that are attracted to the UnitedHealthcare CEO killer have broken brains. The real hero is the McDonald’s employee who called him in.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome In Wednesday edition Clay Travis buck Sexton Show.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I am in Israel, buck is in Miami.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
The geographic distance is wide, but my goodness, we have
a lot to dive into today as the fallout of
the Daniel Penny verdict continues, but also the United Healthcare
CEO murder now that they have this lunatic in prison,
(00:29):
the number of women out there that are in love.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
With him is crazy.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
And the overall attempt which has become quite common now
to try to analogize these two situations and suggest that
they are in any way reflective of one another. To me,
Bucket feels like it's only growing here. And we had
a discussion yesterday, and I understand that there are many
(00:56):
people that are fired up about the healthcare system in America,
and it is extremely frustrating, and it is extremely inefficient,
and there are lots of things that everyone out there
has had as an issue at some point in time
in their family. But you can't kill CEO because you
don't like the United States healthcare system. And the fact
(01:16):
that people out there are saying, oh, look, in one case,
vigilante justice is rewarded with Daniel Penny, and in the
other case, Oh my goodness, they're not giving any justification
to the killer here. I can't believe that this argument
could even occur, or that people buck with functional brains
(01:40):
could even attempt to analogize these to me, as in
most life, most of life, and most of the criminal
justice system. Frankly, it comes down to intent. Daniel Penny's
goal that day was to go safely take a subway ride.
He felt compelled to act to try to protect his
passengers around him. The killer of the United Healthcare CEO
plotted in cold blood to kill a man who'd never
(02:03):
done anything to him directly and had committed no crimes.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I got to say, Clay Penny's attitude, his perspective on
this is pretty remarkable. This is cut one. He's telling
everybody after this acquittal. You know, usually well, it's always
the case that the process is the punishment with a
criminal prosecution, right You're you don't ever want to be
criminally prosecuted. But Penny seems to have no bitterness about it.
He says, a trade off I would make again to
(02:30):
step in and defend people play cut one.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
I mean, I'm not a confrontational person. I don't really
extend myself. I think this type of thing is very uncomfortable.
All this attention in line mind is very uncomfortable, and
I would prefer without it. I didn't want any type
of attention or praise or and I still don't the
(02:53):
guilt I would have felt if someone did get hurt,
if if he did do what he would threatening to do.
Would never be able to live with myself. And I'll
take a million court appearances and people calling me names
and people hating me just to keep one of those
(03:14):
people from getting hurt or killed.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Clay, this is what a code is.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
When you talk about a man who has a code
of honor, a code of ethics, it is more important
to me to achieve a moral end than it is
to avoid suffering or to avoid the negative consequences of
the state. So I think Penny has acquitted himself after
his acquittal in these interviews in a remarkable way. And
(03:42):
beyond that, I would just say this, Clay, if Penny
had done this, we haven't talked about this yet. I'm
wondering if you agree. If Penny had done this in
the summer of twenty twenty, he's sitting in prison right
now because oh I think you're right, you know, because
people have woken up. They've realized that the big problem
(04:05):
is not systemic racism, in fact, at the hands of police.
The big problem for millions and millions of Americans is
not being safe on their streets, on the subways, you know,
walking in front of their homes, going to the store.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
We've seen all the videos. Enough is enough.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
The fever's broken, the woke fever has broken. And here's
what I would say about the subway incident in particular,
the City of New York failed Daniel Penny and they
failed Jordan Neely. There are a lot of people out
there who want to say, oh, Jordan Neely is the victim.
Daniel Penny's the bad guy. Some people want to say, oh,
(04:47):
Daniel Penny's a hero, Jordan Neely is the is the
awful villain I gotta take here. I think the City
of New York is the villain here, because the City
of New York had a vested Jordan Neely for violent
incidents that definitely sprang from his mental illness. I think
the number is forty two times. This is a guy
(05:10):
who socked a sixty seven year old woman in the
face and broke her orbital bone, and Broker knows this
guy who could have gone blind in one eye. When
you when you shatter somebody's orbital bone, it is not hard.
Any of the ophthalmologists or surgeons know that very easily
could press on the optic nerve and you could go
blind in an eye. Not a minor thing to do
(05:30):
to an elderly woman. Yeah, sixty seven year old woman
is often a grandma. I mean, we're not talking about
somebody who was a threat to him, but he was
a threat to himself and he was a threat to others,
and they let him out on the street because of
the soft on crime policies.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Daniel Penny had to.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Act that day in his mind, and a jury believed
he was justified in doing that act because New York
City failed. This was and is to me on New
York City and then buck New York City doubled their
failure by deciding they needed to put Daniel Penny on
trial and try to imprison him. So not only did
(06:10):
they create the toxic circumstances of this situation. If Jordan
Neely's family wants to sue somebody, they should sue the
state of New York and the City of New York
because they failed to take a violent criminal off the
streets and someone who was mentally ill. Can we bring
back you want to talk about things that we need
(06:30):
to bring back, can we bring back insane asylums?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I mean a huge portion a.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Violent crime in this country is directly connected to mental illness.
And we basically have decided nobody needs to be put
in a mental institution anymore, and all those people are
out on our streets.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
This may or may not shock you, Clay, but you
know who very much agrees with some of this analysis.
Mourning Joe Scarborough himself, this is cut whoa he is attacked.
My goodness, his fellow Democrat lunatics were passing insane laws
about homelessness, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Play four.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Middle health system in this country is just grossly insufficient.
Whether you're talking about New York, whether you're talking about Florida,
whether you're talking about California. You have people walking around
on the streets that have mental health issues. And the
fact that some progressives have said, basically, well, we're just
you know, let's pass laws that allow homelessness all all. Yeah,
(07:34):
you look in San Francisco, you look at Los Angeles.
As we've said all along and reve and I've said
all along, there's nothing compassionate about that. Now, there's nothing
progressive about that, leaving people with mental health problems on
the street.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
No, by the way, this is a total reversal, a
rejection of Democrat dogma for certainly the last decade and
maybe the last you know, several decades, going back to
the Giuliani crime miracle of New York. Clay, just like
with so many things Democrats, whether it's oh, the real
problem with violence in this country is white cops against
(08:10):
young black men.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
That is a lie.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
It's actually incredibly rare. And the real problem with the
violence is criminals shooting each other, and disproportionately their minority
young men shooting minority young men.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Put that aside for a moment.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Clay here, they like to make everybody think that homelessness
is caused by healthcare denials followed by bankruptcy. Somebody couldn't
hit the mortgage payment.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Somebody all of a sudden ran a little too much
on their credit card bills.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Anybody with any experience dealing with and I mean in
a institutional way, right, like trying to help. You know,
I had a grandfather who is involved with the Coalition
for Shelter for you know, many many many years in
New York. Anybody who spent any time doing this will
tell you it is overwhelmingly extreme mental health issues and
extreme drug addiction issues, either a combination or one of
(09:01):
those two things.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Eighty or ninety percent of the homeless you see.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
And they keep saying, don't punish people for these things
by taking away their freedom, But they're taking away the
freedom of other people to walk the streets safely.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Then this is what By the way, the Jordan.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Neely, he was given a safe place to sleep, food,
a room to sleep in, all this stuff left after
I think it was fourteen days.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, I saw eleven days. But you're right.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
They tried to get him off the streets. And this
is where again I grew with Jeff Scarborough. We got
to bring back in some way mental institutions. Remember when
I mean, I've read the studies because I was fascinated
by it. We basically just gave up on the idea
of putting people in mental institutions in an effort to
(09:51):
rehabilitate them there. And now all of those people are
back out on the streets. Per capita, we have almost
no one in mental health INSTITUTTIONE compared to we just
call them insane asylums back in the day. And by
the way, Daniel Penny also ripped New York because he said,
I think some degree of what I said, which is
(10:11):
the City of New York's failure, is what created the
conflict between Jordan Neely and Daniel Penny. That never needed
to happen. Listen to cut two.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
How does it serve them to hurt you just political gain?
I mean, these are their policies that are and I
don't mean to get political. I don't really want to
make any enemies really, although I guess I have already,
But I mean these these are their policies that I've
clearly not worked, that that that the people, the general
(10:44):
population are not in support of. Yet their egos are
too big just to admit admit that they're wrong.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I think he's right here, Buck. I think your point
is a good one. If Jordan Neely did this exact
same thing in the twenty twenty I think he would
have gotten convicted in the fall of twenty twenty. So
this is strong evidence that there is a rejection and
repudiation of New York City policies. And I would just
hammer this home if Jordan Neely couldn't get convicted in
(11:16):
New York City, if in fact a jury there would
unanimously agree that his actions were justified. I'm not sure
there is a single jurisdiction in all of America right
now where Daniel Penny could have been convicted. You know,
he's not getting convicted in Nashville, Tennessee, where I live,
or my own.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
To your point, he wouldn't even be prosecuted.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
He wouldn't even get charged. Yes, but the fact that
they couldn't even get a conviction there. He wouldn't be
prosecuted in most jurisdictions based on the evidence here. But
the fact they couldn't even get a conviction there. Maybe Washington,
DC you could get it. I don't even think you
could get it there because I've ridden the Metro in
the subway there, and there's that same fear now in
(11:56):
DC that didn't used to be there.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I Clay, I mean I read, I've ridden the subway
thousands of times over my life. I used to ride
the subway even before the pandemic. I was on the
subway four times a day because I was sort of
commuting twice for two different things, so at.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Least four rides a day right during the week.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
And the stuff that you started to see in the
New York City subway in a post Bloomberg era because
of Deblasio, because of the end of stop question and frist.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
They always leave out the question part. They do that
on purpose.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
They always, you know, all these different decisions that were made,
and what it turned into was build a Blasio and
progressive ideologues like him, the Soros prosecutors across America, Kamala Harris,
by the way, same ideology. There are a lot of
people that jumped on this bandwagon. They decided that New
(12:50):
Yorkers should have to hope that they don't have some
maniac who you know, reeks of this is I'm speaking facts, Okay,
they often reek of urine and feces.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I'm talking about people.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
That are deeply mentally ill, that need help, that cannot
function normally in order threat to others. You're supposed to
just get on a subway and that maniac can come
up to you, scream and spit in your face and
hope you have to hope that they don't stab you,
or hope that they don't punch you in the face
and do real damage to you before you do anything.
A jury, a multi ethnic, multi gender jury in New
(13:27):
York City, said no, sorry, those aren't the rules we
want to play by anymore. It is a profound rejection
of that progressive lunacy that has led to unfortunately thousands
of excess deaths, tens of thousands of additional assaults and
rapes and horrible things and no benefit. By the way,
you know, people as why is the Democrat Party so
(13:47):
devoted to this horrible idea, whether it's defund police, abolish prisons,
all this stuff, Clay the Soros prosecutors. What has the
Democrat Party done for low income minority communities in America
over the last twenty years? What real achievements have they had.
Is it easier for them to say, you know what,
we stink and we need to change and we need
(14:07):
to help these communities. You know, the party has to
come forward and take accountability, or it's systemic racism.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
I think we all know the answer, and I.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Think we all know the answer not only in how
this jury reacted, but in how many different people of
minority backgrounds, Black, Asian and Hispanic voted in twenty twenty four.
They're seeing the impact of full Democrat, blue state, blue
city law and it ain't helping them. And they're finally,
if you want to use the woke phrase, they're finally
(14:38):
waking up to a new reality. And I hope it's
a safer reality for everyone. And that's certainly the world
that I'm hopeful that we're moving to prize picks. I'm
gonna give Buck picks on Friday. I am flying back
from Israel. Like I said, I'm over here in Jerusalem
right now, but it's time for us to win a
(14:58):
ten to one. I want you to get signed up
and then you will find out whether or not Buck
can read my writing and whether or not he can
correctly deliver the pick, because some of you will remember
the infamous Pickles play and George Pickens not George Pickles.
But if you want to see and experience the fun,
(15:20):
Buck is solo Friday, and he will be attempting to
determine what exactly is going on.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
We'll get hooked up with that.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
You can get in a role right now with a
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Speaker 6 (15:54):
Code Clay, Clay, Travison, Buck Sexton, Mike drops That first
sounded so good. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
All right, welcome back into Clay and Buck play. I
always have to make sure that I'm factually accurate here
we talk about this. I guess this isn't really a fact,
but a bit of a correction. I had mentioned that
a good and longtime friend of mine had always told
me that Whoopy Goldberg was quite kind and always very
kind to him, even though he was conservative. I have
since been informed that she's actually gone super woke and
(16:30):
is mean and won't talk to him anymore. So looks
like a little correction there. I did not realize she
is not nice according to our sort of interviewing, brain's
broken like the minies. Her brain is absolutely broken. I
was giving her way too much credit. According to a
longtime friend of mine and media god, I've known for
fifteen years now, but anyway, she's also not happy about
(16:50):
the Daniel Penny situation.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Over at the view this is cut three play it.
Speaker 7 (16:54):
I don't know that seeing them celebrating in a bar
made me comfortable.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I mean, you killed a guy. The man is dead,
and maybe just you take the celebration home, you don't
do it outside.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
But that's just me.
Speaker 8 (17:08):
Don't listen to anything I say.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
You know, it's just totally out of context here, Clay
with the he's not celebrating that he killed the guy,
celebrating that he's not going to spend the next fifteen
years of his life in a cell, which he didn't deserve. Yeah,
and I think that's quite obvious. The one thing I
will say is I agree with whoopee on the outcome here.
I wouldn't have wanted him to go to a bar
because I don't think for a very different reason, yes,
(17:34):
totally different reasons, but I just I know he went
with his lawyers and he wanted to celebrate. You don't
want some maniac to decide that he's going to try
to you know, even the student.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
What happened to the United Healthcare CEO. I mean, that's
my concern for him going forward. I wish that he
had gotten on a plane and moved straight to the
free state of Florida for instance, where you are.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Look, you need more energy and stamina to get through
a day.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Heck, you know, long day over here in Israel, and
I'm glad that I still got some functional testosterone, unlike
a lot of the MSNBC and CNN All stars, unlike
the white dudes. For Kamala, you need some more health
in your life, some more testosterone in your life. Maybe
your maybe you looked in the mirror the other day
(18:18):
and he thought, you know what, I'm starting to feel
like a white dude.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
For Harris, I get hooked up now with chalk. You
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(18:46):
That's five zero chalk three thousand. Chalk dot com five
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season with some testosterone in your life. Welcome back in
Play Travis buck Sexton show Hope. Everybody is having a
fantastic Wednesday all over the country.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I'm gonna call out women here. It always goes well.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
The number of women Buck that are basically losing their
mind over this Luigi character who is a murderer and
are convinced that he is the hottest human being who
has ever existed. There are many aspects of this story
that have blown my mind, beginning with the fact that
anyone would in any way defend his actions. But actually
(19:30):
it may even be crazier that not only are people
defending his actions, but there are women losing their mind
over how much they love this guy because they think
he's attractive. Now, I have an unblemished record of heterosexuality.
I've been married for twenty years to a woman I
don't think this guy's that good looking, and I don't
(19:51):
know what I'm missing. I admittedly I don't know what
makes women lose their minds over attractiveness. But this is
crazy town, even for crazy women town, and so I
want to get some reactions. There is there any woman
who can defend women finding this guy attractive eight hundred
(20:13):
and two eight two two eight eight two only women.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Or gay men? I guess maybe? Uh and I wanted
to play this because we were talking about it. Buck.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
How in the world did he get recognized? At an Altoona,
Pennsylvania McDonald's, they found the guy who caught him and
they interviewed him.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
The McDonald's customer, did you see this?
Speaker 1 (20:38):
No, but go forward, let's play it. This is this
is the hero of the story. The McDonald's customer, listen, Larry.
Speaker 8 (20:47):
When the shooter I'm assuming was the shooter who they
made the arrest on came in, he made a comment,
but that looks like the shooter from New York. But
I thought he was the group of us. I thought
it was more it was a joke and we were
kidding about it. But then as it turned out, it
was him. And like I said, the employee thought it
(21:09):
was him that I guess started an initial investigation on it.
I talked to her later.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I said, I said, was I here when he came in?
Speaker 8 (21:20):
And she goes, yeah, and she goes, actually, you and
your friends and all were making a joke, almost like saying,
and that's pretty much about it. I mean, he ordered
went to the rear of the store and sat. I
passed him whenever I left, I left and went to church.
Come back because I heard there was an arrest. I
(21:42):
didn't know which McDonald's it was, but it was this,
you know, where we were at.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
So the McDonald's guys are sitting around joking that Luigi
looks like he might be the killer, and then one
of the McDonald's employees calls in and next thing you know,
he's arrested at Altuna Pa.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Can I just say that this is not an unusual
circumstance for how people. It's this is why they want
to when they need help to find somebody, they blast
their image all over you go back to what was
that show that was America's Most Wanted, Thank you, America's
most wanted. You know, it's somebody sees somebody the gas
station and the facial recognition in their own brain triggers
(22:21):
and next thing you know, you know, you've got an arrest. Right,
So people were saying like, how was he found that, Well,
he's going to be found somewhere. He wasn't hiding. It's
not like they found him deep out in the woods
after some extended manhunt that required a lot of, you know,
sort of gumshoe detective work. This was just somebody who
had seen him and was able to, you know, make
the right call in the moment. I'm also just going
(22:42):
to point out, though, Clay, this guy wasn't trying to
He knew he was gonna get caught. It's just question
of when you don't just show up in a McDonald's
when your face is everywhere and not even that far
from where the shooting was. Really when you think about it,
I know people say al Tuna, Pennsylvania. It was like
two three hour drive or something. So it wasn't like
he was found in Saskatchewan pretending to be a logger.
(23:04):
This was a guy who was gonna get caught. And
you can already see he's shouting things. What was it
he he used a phrase that is just such a
oh lived experience. He said lived experience. Let me tell you,
anybody whoever this is when he was arrested, and he's
being kind of marched, you know, from one facility to another.
Anybody who says lived experience, it's up there with announcing
(23:26):
your pronouns. Right when you say lived experience, you're a leftist.
This is one of their kind of Marxist dogma slogans.
And he's gonna use he's not he's pleading not guilty.
He's not facing the death penalty. They can't offer him
anything other than life in a cell. So Clay, this
is going a trial. And this guy, I think, is
going to try to make a big thing about the
(23:49):
healthcare industry and how you know, you have lunatics like
that woman from the formerly of the Washington Post, Taylor Wrenz,
saying that the healthcare industry is murdering millions of people
or thousands of people whatever, crazy either way, And here
we are. You know, is there an outsize outside chance
that he maybe has one juror who is a little
(24:11):
bit of a holdout. I think it's low, but I
don't think it's zero. I think he has a chance. Again,
if I were the the criminal defense attorney here, and
I'm not in any way justifying it, but when you're
a lawyer, you play the hands that you are dealt
and try to play the hand the best you can.
That is you are an advocate. I think the defense
(24:33):
here is going to be a form of insanity defense.
They will say that he was so angered at what
he saw as the depredations of the American health care
system that, based on his lived experience to use the
phrase that he wanted to scream, that he felt compelled
to act, and in a moment of insanity, he acted
(24:54):
against this CEO, And they will hope that one person
will buy that as as a result, he is not
culpable for his act because his brain basically just like
went on the fritz. And this was a This was
almost like an insanity style defense. The reason I say
(25:15):
insanity style defense, Buck is I don't know whether some
states specifically don't allow you to make an insanity defense
in a criminal context, and so and so I'm not
sure New York does. Fun fact, one of the first
successful insanity defenses ever, General Daniel Sickles, who was a
(25:38):
one of the heroes of the Battle of Gettysburg, killed
his wife's lover and argued that in the heat of
the moment, he had gone insane and therefore was not
criminally responsible for the murderous act. Crime of passion used
to be a criminal defense, or you know, there used
to be that you could say that you could argue
something was a crime of passion, and it was always
(26:00):
you found some guy in bed with your wife, and
a jury wouldn't always convict over that, right, I mean,
that's actually the way that this this used to go.
So I think one part of this clay that hasn't
really gotten it hasn't really gotten enough.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Focus.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
This guy's a terrorist, right, I mean we use the
word assassin, and that's true, but he is a terrorist, yes,
the same way that somebody who you know tried to
and they one of the prime suspects randomly in the
nineteen twenty Wall Street bombing, the huge bomb on Wall
Street was a guy named Luigi as well. So Luigi
making a comeback. This guy committed a high profile murder
(26:41):
in the furtherance of a clear political and I mean
the ideology is clear, but a clear connection to a
political ideology.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
This guy's a terrorist.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
I mean, this is terror one oh, one he is,
and and quite honestly, there's some efficacy to his terrorism
because he has forced a national conversation to be occurring
right now about healthcare. So you know, as a society,
I think we have to be very cognizant of what
this guy wanted is everyone to talk about United healthcare
(27:14):
denials and to think that they're apparently much higher than
they really are.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
But put that aside.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
What this guy wanted is everyone to sit around and say,
what's really the legacy of Obamacare, what's really better about
canada system than ours or not? Like he actually wanted
that to happen, and it is happening. And when terrorists
get their way, I think we should all be very
cautious about the trajectory of what we're discussing. That's why
I think he wants the trial, of course, like he
(27:41):
wants to make the case in the courtroom of a
dramatic fashion about his actions, which ties in by the way,
Daniel Sickles, here's something people didn't expect. Killed his wife's
lover eighteen fifty nine, then became a general in the
Civil War. Argued that he was one of the heroes
(28:01):
of the Battle of Gettysburg and was a member of
the Grant administration later in his life.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
That's a crazy story.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Eighteen fifty nine, he was one of the first people
to get away with the insanity defense. He committed a murder,
said that he was temporarily insane. I don't know that
you can use it officially as a defense in New
York State. Maybe somebody who's listening to us is an
expert on New York penal law. Some states have specifically
disallowed it. But every crime requires typically two parts, the
(28:31):
act and the intent to commit the act. When you
are temporarily insane, you do not have the mental faculty
to intend to commit the act. That's how you get
away with doing something like that. One other aspect to
your buck that I think is significant. The guy who
was killed, Brian Thompson.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
He is a from a.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Working class family, state school education. He pulled himself up
by his proverbial bootstraps. This kid, twenty six year old Luigi,
is the definition of white privilege. Went to Gilman High
School forty thousand dollars a year. It's the elite prep
school of Baltimore, double ivy League degrees. Family is very wealthy,
(29:18):
isn't it interesting when the white privilege mantra is just
completely abandoned. This guy is the definition of white privilege,
and I would argue defending him is a furtherance of
his entire life where everything has been set out for him.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Well, I can tell you from years of being in
the CIA's kind of terrorism center play and having access
to the literature and the training that they give analysts,
poverty does not cause radicalism. And if you look historically,
it is often the case that the most extreme radicals
in a society tend to be what you would think
(29:56):
of as upper middle class and above laden. Being one
of the most obvious and prominent examples of this, I'm
in Alswaheri a doctor. A lot of terrorists running around
with the with the nom de guerre of the engineer
because they studied engineering because that's very popular in the
Middle East as a as a degree. So I'm just saying,
(30:18):
you know, this is also a reminder for people that
it is the progressive elites in a society who can
often be the most radical and the ones who are
most willing to kick at the load bearing walls of civilization,
no doubt.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
And one of the reasons why is because they have
the intellectual ability and also they're well educated in some sense.
But more importantly, they have the financial wherewithal to not
be worried about where every meal is coming from. They
can sit around and focus on things, and.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
They're disconnected from I mean, there's the there's a dangerous
idealism that can come from being disconnected from the problems
of everyday people, which is like, how do I live
in a safe and secure place, how do I feed
myself in my family? How do I provide? How do
I when you can sit around and just think deep thoughts. Yeah, sure,
sometimes that results in beautiful artwork and literature.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I get it.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
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Speaker 6 (33:00):
Cheek out with the guys on the Sunday Hang with
Clay and Buck podcast, a new episode every Sunday. Find
it on the iHeart app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Put out the ask here for a whole lot of calls,
and we've got a bunch of them.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Let's get to them.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
But first up, you'll notice I'm wearing the T shirt
for those you can see Crockettcoffee dot com. Please subscribe
guys this holiday season. Switch your coffee. I know, I
know almost all of you are drinking coffee, like ninety
percent of you.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Why are you supporting some communists?
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Will It's nonsense. Crockett Coffee all about America, all about freedom.
Ten percent of our profits goes a tunnel the Towers Foundation.
Some of your other favorite hosts out there, guys like
Jesse Kelly and Sean Parnell and Mark Simone are also
now affiliates of Crockett so they've been selling Crockett Coffee.
So we're spreading the word all through conservative media and
(33:52):
helping our fellow creators and hosts you know, run their business.
But Crocket coffee is delicious. Go to Crocket Coffee dot com.
Use code book and you'll get a signed copy of
American playbook Clay Travis is fantastic book sent to you
for free. Subscription is the best because you get it
sent that every month of call and you can change.
You want a little more, one month, little less. You
just log in and count.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
It's so easy.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Go to Crocketcoffee dot com. All right, let's take Barbara
and Fort Meyers. Barbara, what have you got for us?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Hello?
Speaker 9 (34:23):
Bringing the Luigian his eyebrows And as a natural born female,
I have to admit, Yeah, the kid's pretty cute. That
doesn't mean that when somebody is attractive that if they
go off the deep end then that dark side comes out.
They can also turn equally as unattractive.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
So well, yes, personality matters, and being an assassin and
a psycho is clearly a downer on the dating scene.
But yes, do you think women would be more likely
to find him not guilty if you were his defense attorney?
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Would you try to get as many women on the
jury as you could?
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Oh?
Speaker 9 (35:04):
Of course, I think a smart lawyer would definitely go
that way. But I think there will be smart women
that will look beyond what the kid looks like. And
they're gonna they've got too much proof. It appears anyway,
fingerprints and what have you. So I think they'll get him.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
I think so.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
I mean, he's on video theoretically committing the crime Sandy
and California. You got a beef to pick with me
here or bone to pick with me? I don't guess
you could pick a beefy you could, I don't know.
Speaker 7 (35:36):
I don't know if the screener was referring to my
comment about Kamala, because I remember one of you saying
that you thought she was attractive, and as a straight woman,
maybe I shouldn't judge, but I don't find anything attractive
about her.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I think Kamala is an awful politician, but I think
she is an attractive sixty year old woman, and I
think she used to be really good looking. Did I
just blow just blow Sey's mind? Did she just hang
up on the spot She was calling in to tell
us Luigi was good looking, but that I couldn't be
(36:14):
trusted because I said Kablo was good looking.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
But I just I need to know. I mean, who
is better looking, Luigi or Mario Mario, I mean Mario,
would the original active, he's the O G.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
I think, yeah, yeah, I think. I don't think there's
any doubt would we come back. A lot of people,
By the way, we could have some fun with this.
During the course of the show Buck, a lot of
people fired up about the Harry Potter versus Star Wars
debate we got into. We'll have some fun with that,
but also serious stuff. Our two next
Welcome In Wednesday edition Clay Travis buck Sexton Show.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I am in Israel, buck is in Miami.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
The geographic distance is wide, but my goodness, we have
a lot to dive into today as the fallout of
the Daniel Penny verdict continues, but also the United Healthcare
CEO murder now that they have this lunatic in prison,
(00:29):
the number of women out there that are in love.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
With him is crazy.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
And the overall attempt which has become quite common now
to try to analogize these two situations and suggest that
they are in any way reflective of one another. To me,
Bucket feels like it's only growing here. And we had
a discussion yesterday, and I understand that there are many
(00:56):
people that are fired up about the healthcare system in America,
and it is extremely frustrating, and it is extremely inefficient,
and there are lots of things that everyone out there
has had as an issue at some point in time
in their family. But you can't kill CEO because you
don't like the United States healthcare system. And the fact
(01:16):
that people out there are saying, oh, look, in one case,
vigilante justice is rewarded with Daniel Penny, and in the
other case, Oh my goodness, they're not giving any justification
to the killer here. I can't believe that this argument
could even occur, or that people buck with functional brains
(01:40):
could even attempt to analogize these to me, as in
most life, most of life, and most of the criminal
justice system. Frankly, it comes down to intent. Daniel Penny's
goal that day was to go safely take a subway ride.
He felt compelled to act to try to protect his
passengers around him. The killer of the United Healthcare CEO
plotted in cold blood to kill a man who'd never
(02:03):
done anything to him directly and had committed no crimes.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I got to say, Clay Penny's attitude, his perspective on
this is pretty remarkable. This is cut one. He's telling
everybody after this acquittal. You know, usually well, it's always
the case that the process is the punishment with a
criminal prosecution, right You're you don't ever want to be
criminally prosecuted. But Penny seems to have no bitterness about it.
He says, a trade off I would make again to
(02:30):
step in and defend people play cut one.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
I mean, I'm not a confrontational person. I don't really
extend myself. I think this type of thing is very uncomfortable.
All this attention in line mind is very uncomfortable, and
I would prefer without it. I didn't want any type
of attention or praise or and I still don't the
(02:53):
guilt I would have felt if someone did get hurt,
if if he did do what he would threatening to do.
Would never be able to live with myself. And I'll
take a million court appearances and people calling me names
and people hating me just to keep one of those
(03:14):
people from getting hurt or killed.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Clay, this is what a code is.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
When you talk about a man who has a code
of honor, a code of ethics, it is more important
to me to achieve a moral end than it is
to avoid suffering or to avoid the negative consequences of
the state. So I think Penny has acquitted himself after
his acquittal in these interviews in a remarkable way. And
(03:42):
beyond that, I would just say this, Clay, if Penny
had done this, we haven't talked about this yet. I'm
wondering if you agree. If Penny had done this in
the summer of twenty twenty, he's sitting in prison right
now because oh I think you're right, you know, because
people have woken up. They've realized that the big problem
(04:05):
is not systemic racism, in fact, at the hands of police.
The big problem for millions and millions of Americans is
not being safe on their streets, on the subways, you know,
walking in front of their homes, going to the store.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
We've seen all the videos. Enough is enough.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
The fever's broken, the woke fever has broken. And here's
what I would say about the subway incident in particular,
the City of New York failed Daniel Penny and they
failed Jordan Neely. There are a lot of people out
there who want to say, oh, Jordan Neely is the victim.
Daniel Penny's the bad guy. Some people want to say, oh,
(04:47):
Daniel Penny's a hero, Jordan Neely is the is the
awful villain I gotta take here. I think the City
of New York is the villain here, because the City
of New York had a vested Jordan Neely for violent
incidents that definitely sprang from his mental illness. I think
the number is forty two times. This is a guy
(05:10):
who socked a sixty seven year old woman in the
face and broke her orbital bone, and Broker knows this
guy who could have gone blind in one eye. When
you when you shatter somebody's orbital bone, it is not hard.
Any of the ophthalmologists or surgeons know that very easily
could press on the optic nerve and you could go
blind in an eye. Not a minor thing to do
(05:30):
to an elderly woman. Yeah, sixty seven year old woman
is often a grandma. I mean, we're not talking about
somebody who was a threat to him, but he was
a threat to himself and he was a threat to others,
and they let him out on the street because of
the soft on crime policies.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Daniel Penny had to.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Act that day in his mind, and a jury believed
he was justified in doing that act because New York
City failed. This was and is to me on New
York City and then buck New York City doubled their
failure by deciding they needed to put Daniel Penny on
trial and try to imprison him. So not only did
(06:10):
they create the toxic circumstances of this situation. If Jordan
Neely's family wants to sue somebody, they should sue the
state of New York and the City of New York
because they failed to take a violent criminal off the
streets and someone who was mentally ill. Can we bring
back you want to talk about things that we need
(06:30):
to bring back, can we bring back insane asylums?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I mean a huge portion a.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Violent crime in this country is directly connected to mental illness.
And we basically have decided nobody needs to be put
in a mental institution anymore, and all those people are
out on our streets.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
This may or may not shock you, Clay, but you
know who very much agrees with some of this analysis.
Mourning Joe Scarborough himself, this is cut whoa he is attacked.
My goodness, his fellow Democrat lunatics were passing insane laws
about homelessness, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Play four.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Middle health system in this country is just grossly insufficient.
Whether you're talking about New York, whether you're talking about Florida,
whether you're talking about California. You have people walking around
on the streets that have mental health issues. And the
fact that some progressives have said, basically, well, we're just
you know, let's pass laws that allow homelessness all all. Yeah,
(07:34):
you look in San Francisco, you look at Los Angeles.
As we've said all along and reve and I've said
all along, there's nothing compassionate about that. Now, there's nothing
progressive about that, leaving people with mental health problems on
the street.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
No, by the way, this is a total reversal, a
rejection of Democrat dogma for certainly the last decade and
maybe the last you know, several decades, going back to
the Giuliani crime miracle of New York. Clay, just like
with so many things Democrats, whether it's oh, the real
problem with violence in this country is white cops against
(08:10):
young black men.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
That is a lie.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
It's actually incredibly rare. And the real problem with the
violence is criminals shooting each other, and disproportionately their minority
young men shooting minority young men.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Put that aside for a moment.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Clay here, they like to make everybody think that homelessness
is caused by healthcare denials followed by bankruptcy. Somebody couldn't
hit the mortgage payment.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Somebody all of a sudden ran a little too much
on their credit card bills.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Anybody with any experience dealing with and I mean in
a institutional way, right, like trying to help. You know,
I had a grandfather who is involved with the Coalition
for Shelter for you know, many many many years in
New York. Anybody who spent any time doing this will
tell you it is overwhelmingly extreme mental health issues and
extreme drug addiction issues, either a combination or one of
(09:01):
those two things.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Eighty or ninety percent of the homeless you see.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
And they keep saying, don't punish people for these things
by taking away their freedom, But they're taking away the
freedom of other people to walk the streets safely.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Then this is what By the way, the Jordan.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Neely, he was given a safe place to sleep, food,
a room to sleep in, all this stuff left after
I think it was fourteen days.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, I saw eleven days. But you're right.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
They tried to get him off the streets. And this
is where again I grew with Jeff Scarborough. We got
to bring back in some way mental institutions. Remember when
I mean, I've read the studies because I was fascinated
by it. We basically just gave up on the idea
of putting people in mental institutions in an effort to
(09:51):
rehabilitate them there. And now all of those people are
back out on the streets. Per capita, we have almost
no one in mental health INSTITUTTIONE compared to we just
call them insane asylums back in the day. And by
the way, Daniel Penny also ripped New York because he said,
I think some degree of what I said, which is
(10:11):
the City of New York's failure, is what created the
conflict between Jordan Neely and Daniel Penny. That never needed
to happen. Listen to cut two.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
How does it serve them to hurt you just political gain?
I mean, these are their policies that are and I
don't mean to get political. I don't really want to
make any enemies really, although I guess I have already,
But I mean these these are their policies that I've
clearly not worked, that that that the people, the general
(10:44):
population are not in support of. Yet their egos are
too big just to admit admit that they're wrong.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I think he's right here, Buck. I think your point
is a good one. If Jordan Neely did this exact
same thing in the twenty twenty I think he would
have gotten convicted in the fall of twenty twenty. So
this is strong evidence that there is a rejection and
repudiation of New York City policies. And I would just
hammer this home if Jordan Neely couldn't get convicted in
(11:16):
New York City, if in fact a jury there would
unanimously agree that his actions were justified. I'm not sure
there is a single jurisdiction in all of America right
now where Daniel Penny could have been convicted. You know,
he's not getting convicted in Nashville, Tennessee, where I live,
or my own.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
To your point, he wouldn't even be prosecuted.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
He wouldn't even get charged. Yes, but the fact that
they couldn't even get a conviction there. He wouldn't be
prosecuted in most jurisdictions based on the evidence here. But
the fact they couldn't even get a conviction there. Maybe Washington,
DC you could get it. I don't even think you
could get it there because I've ridden the Metro in
the subway there, and there's that same fear now in
(11:56):
DC that didn't used to be there.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I Clay, I mean I read, I've ridden the subway
thousands of times over my life. I used to ride
the subway even before the pandemic. I was on the
subway four times a day because I was sort of
commuting twice for two different things, so at.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Least four rides a day right during the week.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
And the stuff that you started to see in the
New York City subway in a post Bloomberg era because
of Deblasio, because of the end of stop question and frist.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
They always leave out the question part. They do that
on purpose.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
They always, you know, all these different decisions that were made,
and what it turned into was build a Blasio and
progressive ideologues like him, the Soros prosecutors across America, Kamala Harris,
by the way, same ideology. There are a lot of
people that jumped on this bandwagon. They decided that New
(12:50):
Yorkers should have to hope that they don't have some
maniac who you know, reeks of this is I'm speaking facts, Okay,
they often reek of urine and feces.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I'm talking about people.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
That are deeply mentally ill, that need help, that cannot
function normally in order threat to others. You're supposed to
just get on a subway and that maniac can come
up to you, scream and spit in your face and
hope you have to hope that they don't stab you,
or hope that they don't punch you in the face
and do real damage to you before you do anything.
A jury, a multi ethnic, multi gender jury in New
(13:27):
York City, said no, sorry, those aren't the rules we
want to play by anymore. It is a profound rejection
of that progressive lunacy that has led to unfortunately thousands
of excess deaths, tens of thousands of additional assaults and
rapes and horrible things and no benefit. By the way,
you know, people as why is the Democrat Party so
(13:47):
devoted to this horrible idea, whether it's defund police, abolish prisons,
all this stuff, Clay the Soros prosecutors. What has the
Democrat Party done for low income minority communities in America
over the last twenty years? What real achievements have they had.
Is it easier for them to say, you know what,
we stink and we need to change and we need
(14:07):
to help these communities. You know, the party has to
come forward and take accountability, or it's systemic racism.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
I think we all know the answer, and I.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Think we all know the answer not only in how
this jury reacted, but in how many different people of
minority backgrounds, Black, Asian and Hispanic voted in twenty twenty four.
They're seeing the impact of full Democrat, blue state, blue
city law and it ain't helping them. And they're finally,
if you want to use the woke phrase, they're finally
(14:38):
waking up to a new reality. And I hope it's
a safer reality for everyone. And that's certainly the world
that I'm hopeful that we're moving to prize picks. I'm
gonna give Buck picks on Friday. I am flying back
from Israel. Like I said, I'm over here in Jerusalem
right now, but it's time for us to win a
(14:58):
ten to one. I want you to get signed up
and then you will find out whether or not Buck
can read my writing and whether or not he can
correctly deliver the pick, because some of you will remember
the infamous Pickles play and George Pickens not George Pickles.
But if you want to see and experience the fun,
(15:20):
Buck is solo Friday, and he will be attempting to
determine what exactly is going on.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
We'll get hooked up with that.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
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Speaker 6 (15:54):
Code Clay, Clay, Travison, Buck Sexton, Mike drops That first
sounded so good. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
All right, welcome back into Clay and Buck play. I
always have to make sure that I'm factually accurate here
we talk about this. I guess this isn't really a fact,
but a bit of a correction. I had mentioned that
a good and longtime friend of mine had always told
me that Whoopy Goldberg was quite kind and always very
kind to him, even though he was conservative. I have
since been informed that she's actually gone super woke and
(16:30):
is mean and won't talk to him anymore. So looks
like a little correction there. I did not realize she
is not nice according to our sort of interviewing, brain's
broken like the minies. Her brain is absolutely broken. I
was giving her way too much credit. According to a
longtime friend of mine and media god, I've known for
fifteen years now, but anyway, she's also not happy about
(16:50):
the Daniel Penny situation.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Over at the view this is cut three play it.
Speaker 7 (16:54):
I don't know that seeing them celebrating in a bar
made me comfortable.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I mean, you killed a guy. The man is dead,
and maybe just you take the celebration home, you don't
do it outside.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
But that's just me.
Speaker 8 (17:08):
Don't listen to anything I say.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
You know, it's just totally out of context here, Clay
with the he's not celebrating that he killed the guy,
celebrating that he's not going to spend the next fifteen
years of his life in a cell, which he didn't deserve. Yeah,
and I think that's quite obvious. The one thing I
will say is I agree with whoopee on the outcome here.
I wouldn't have wanted him to go to a bar
because I don't think for a very different reason, yes,
(17:34):
totally different reasons, but I just I know he went
with his lawyers and he wanted to celebrate. You don't
want some maniac to decide that he's going to try
to you know, even the student.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
What happened to the United Healthcare CEO. I mean, that's
my concern for him going forward. I wish that he
had gotten on a plane and moved straight to the
free state of Florida for instance, where you are.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Look, you need more energy and stamina to get through
a day.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Heck, you know, long day over here in Israel, and
I'm glad that I still got some functional testosterone, unlike
a lot of the MSNBC and CNN All stars, unlike
the white dudes. For Kamala, you need some more health
in your life, some more testosterone in your life. Maybe
your maybe you looked in the mirror the other day
(18:18):
and he thought, you know what, I'm starting to feel
like a white dude.
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For Harris, I get hooked up now with chalk. You
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Play Travis buck Sexton show Hope. Everybody is having a
fantastic Wednesday all over the country.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I'm gonna call out women here. It always goes well.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
The number of women Buck that are basically losing their
mind over this Luigi character who is a murderer and
are convinced that he is the hottest human being who
has ever existed. There are many aspects of this story
that have blown my mind, beginning with the fact that
anyone would in any way defend his actions. But actually
(19:30):
it may even be crazier that not only are people
defending his actions, but there are women losing their mind
over how much they love this guy because they think
he's attractive. Now, I have an unblemished record of heterosexuality.
I've been married for twenty years to a woman I
don't think this guy's that good looking, and I don't
(19:51):
know what I'm missing. I admittedly I don't know what
makes women lose their minds over attractiveness. But this is
crazy town, even for crazy women town, and so I
want to get some reactions. There is there any woman
who can defend women finding this guy attractive eight hundred
(20:13):
and two eight two two eight eight two only women.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Or gay men? I guess maybe? Uh and I wanted
to play this because we were talking about it. Buck.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
How in the world did he get recognized? At an Altoona,
Pennsylvania McDonald's, they found the guy who caught him and
they interviewed him.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
The McDonald's customer, did you see this?
Speaker 1 (20:38):
No, but go forward, let's play it. This is this
is the hero of the story. The McDonald's customer, listen, Larry.
Speaker 8 (20:47):
When the shooter I'm assuming was the shooter who they
made the arrest on came in, he made a comment,
but that looks like the shooter from New York. But
I thought he was the group of us. I thought
it was more it was a joke and we were
kidding about it. But then as it turned out, it
was him. And like I said, the employee thought it
(21:09):
was him that I guess started an initial investigation on it.
I talked to her later.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I said, I said, was I here when he came in?
Speaker 8 (21:20):
And she goes, yeah, and she goes, actually, you and
your friends and all were making a joke, almost like saying,
and that's pretty much about it. I mean, he ordered
went to the rear of the store and sat. I
passed him whenever I left, I left and went to church.
Come back because I heard there was an arrest. I
(21:42):
didn't know which McDonald's it was, but it was this,
you know, where we were at.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
So the McDonald's guys are sitting around joking that Luigi
looks like he might be the killer, and then one
of the McDonald's employees calls in and next thing you know,
he's arrested at Altuna Pa.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Can I just say that this is not an unusual
circumstance for how people. It's this is why they want
to when they need help to find somebody, they blast
their image all over you go back to what was
that show that was America's Most Wanted, Thank you, America's
most wanted. You know, it's somebody sees somebody the gas
station and the facial recognition in their own brain triggers
(22:21):
and next thing you know, you know, you've got an arrest. Right,
So people were saying like, how was he found that, Well,
he's going to be found somewhere. He wasn't hiding. It's
not like they found him deep out in the woods
after some extended manhunt that required a lot of, you know,
sort of gumshoe detective work. This was just somebody who
had seen him and was able to, you know, make
the right call in the moment. I'm also just going
(22:42):
to point out, though, Clay, this guy wasn't trying to
He knew he was gonna get caught. It's just question
of when you don't just show up in a McDonald's
when your face is everywhere and not even that far
from where the shooting was. Really when you think about it,
I know people say al Tuna, Pennsylvania. It was like
two three hour drive or something. So it wasn't like
he was found in Saskatchewan pretending to be a logger.
(23:04):
This was a guy who was gonna get caught. And
you can already see he's shouting things. What was it
he he used a phrase that is just such a
oh lived experience. He said lived experience. Let me tell you,
anybody whoever this is when he was arrested, and he's
being kind of marched, you know, from one facility to another.
Anybody who says lived experience, it's up there with announcing
(23:26):
your pronouns. Right when you say lived experience, you're a leftist.
This is one of their kind of Marxist dogma slogans.
And he's gonna use he's not he's pleading not guilty.
He's not facing the death penalty. They can't offer him
anything other than life in a cell. So Clay, this
is going a trial. And this guy, I think, is
going to try to make a big thing about the
(23:49):
healthcare industry and how you know, you have lunatics like
that woman from the formerly of the Washington Post, Taylor Wrenz,
saying that the healthcare industry is murdering millions of people
or thousands of people whatever, crazy either way, And here
we are. You know, is there an outsize outside chance
that he maybe has one juror who is a little
(24:11):
bit of a holdout. I think it's low, but I
don't think it's zero. I think he has a chance. Again,
if I were the the criminal defense attorney here, and
I'm not in any way justifying it, but when you're
a lawyer, you play the hands that you are dealt
and try to play the hand the best you can.
That is you are an advocate. I think the defense
(24:33):
here is going to be a form of insanity defense.
They will say that he was so angered at what
he saw as the depredations of the American health care
system that, based on his lived experience to use the
phrase that he wanted to scream, that he felt compelled
to act, and in a moment of insanity, he acted
(24:54):
against this CEO, And they will hope that one person
will buy that as as a result, he is not
culpable for his act because his brain basically just like
went on the fritz. And this was a This was
almost like an insanity style defense. The reason I say
(25:15):
insanity style defense, Buck is I don't know whether some
states specifically don't allow you to make an insanity defense
in a criminal context, and so and so I'm not
sure New York does. Fun fact, one of the first
successful insanity defenses ever, General Daniel Sickles, who was a
(25:38):
one of the heroes of the Battle of Gettysburg, killed
his wife's lover and argued that in the heat of
the moment, he had gone insane and therefore was not
criminally responsible for the murderous act. Crime of passion used
to be a criminal defense, or you know, there used
to be that you could say that you could argue
something was a crime of passion, and it was always
(26:00):
you found some guy in bed with your wife, and
a jury wouldn't always convict over that, right, I mean,
that's actually the way that this this used to go.
So I think one part of this clay that hasn't
really gotten it hasn't really gotten enough.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Focus.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
This guy's a terrorist, right, I mean we use the
word assassin, and that's true, but he is a terrorist, yes,
the same way that somebody who you know tried to
and they one of the prime suspects randomly in the
nineteen twenty Wall Street bombing, the huge bomb on Wall
Street was a guy named Luigi as well. So Luigi
making a comeback. This guy committed a high profile murder
(26:41):
in the furtherance of a clear political and I mean
the ideology is clear, but a clear connection to a
political ideology.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
This guy's a terrorist.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
I mean, this is terror one oh, one he is,
and and quite honestly, there's some efficacy to his terrorism
because he has forced a national conversation to be occurring
right now about healthcare. So you know, as a society,
I think we have to be very cognizant of what
this guy wanted is everyone to talk about United healthcare
(27:14):
denials and to think that they're apparently much higher than
they really are.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
But put that aside.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
What this guy wanted is everyone to sit around and say,
what's really the legacy of Obamacare, what's really better about
canada system than ours or not? Like he actually wanted
that to happen, and it is happening. And when terrorists
get their way, I think we should all be very
cautious about the trajectory of what we're discussing. That's why
I think he wants the trial, of course, like he
(27:41):
wants to make the case in the courtroom of a
dramatic fashion about his actions, which ties in by the way,
Daniel Sickles, here's something people didn't expect. Killed his wife's
lover eighteen fifty nine, then became a general in the
Civil War. Argued that he was one of the heroes
(28:01):
of the Battle of Gettysburg and was a member of
the Grant administration later in his life.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
That's a crazy story.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Eighteen fifty nine, he was one of the first people
to get away with the insanity defense. He committed a murder,
said that he was temporarily insane. I don't know that
you can use it officially as a defense in New
York State. Maybe somebody who's listening to us is an
expert on New York penal law. Some states have specifically
disallowed it. But every crime requires typically two parts, the
(28:31):
act and the intent to commit the act. When you
are temporarily insane, you do not have the mental faculty
to intend to commit the act. That's how you get
away with doing something like that. One other aspect to
your buck that I think is significant. The guy who
was killed, Brian Thompson.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
He is a from a.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Working class family, state school education. He pulled himself up
by his proverbial bootstraps. This kid, twenty six year old Luigi,
is the definition of white privilege. Went to Gilman High
School forty thousand dollars a year. It's the elite prep
school of Baltimore, double ivy League degrees. Family is very wealthy,
(29:18):
isn't it interesting when the white privilege mantra is just
completely abandoned. This guy is the definition of white privilege,
and I would argue defending him is a furtherance of
his entire life where everything has been set out for him.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Well, I can tell you from years of being in
the CIA's kind of terrorism center play and having access
to the literature and the training that they give analysts,
poverty does not cause radicalism. And if you look historically,
it is often the case that the most extreme radicals
in a society tend to be what you would think
(29:56):
of as upper middle class and above laden. Being one
of the most obvious and prominent examples of this, I'm
in Alswaheri a doctor. A lot of terrorists running around
with the with the nom de guerre of the engineer
because they studied engineering because that's very popular in the
Middle East as a as a degree. So I'm just saying,
(30:18):
you know, this is also a reminder for people that
it is the progressive elites in a society who can
often be the most radical and the ones who are
most willing to kick at the load bearing walls of civilization,
no doubt.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
And one of the reasons why is because they have
the intellectual ability and also they're well educated in some sense.
But more importantly, they have the financial wherewithal to not
be worried about where every meal is coming from. They
can sit around and focus on things, and.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
They're disconnected from I mean, there's the there's a dangerous
idealism that can come from being disconnected from the problems
of everyday people, which is like, how do I live
in a safe and secure place, how do I feed
myself in my family? How do I provide? How do
I when you can sit around and just think deep thoughts. Yeah, sure,
sometimes that results in beautiful artwork and literature.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I get it.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
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Speaker 6 (33:00):
Cheek out with the guys on the Sunday Hang with
Clay and Buck podcast, a new episode every Sunday. Find
it on the iHeart app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Put out the ask here for a whole lot of calls,
and we've got a bunch of them.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Let's get to them.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
But first up, you'll notice I'm wearing the T shirt
for those you can see Crockettcoffee dot com. Please subscribe
guys this holiday season. Switch your coffee. I know, I
know almost all of you are drinking coffee, like ninety
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Speaker 2 (33:29):
Why are you supporting some communists?
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Will It's nonsense. Crockett Coffee all about America, all about freedom.
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(33:52):
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But Crocket coffee is delicious. Go to Crocket Coffee dot com.
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Go to Crocketcoffee dot com. All right, let's take Barbara
and Fort Meyers. Barbara, what have you got for us?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Hello?
Speaker 9 (34:23):
Bringing the Luigian his eyebrows And as a natural born female,
I have to admit, Yeah, the kid's pretty cute. That
doesn't mean that when somebody is attractive that if they
go off the deep end then that dark side comes out.
They can also turn equally as unattractive.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
So well, yes, personality matters, and being an assassin and
a psycho is clearly a downer on the dating scene.
But yes, do you think women would be more likely
to find him not guilty if you were his defense attorney?
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Would you try to get as many women on the
jury as you could?
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Oh?
Speaker 9 (35:04):
Of course, I think a smart lawyer would definitely go
that way. But I think there will be smart women
that will look beyond what the kid looks like. And
they're gonna they've got too much proof. It appears anyway,
fingerprints and what have you. So I think they'll get him.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
I think so.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
I mean, he's on video theoretically committing the crime Sandy
and California. You got a beef to pick with me
here or bone to pick with me? I don't guess
you could pick a beefy you could, I don't know.
Speaker 7 (35:36):
I don't know if the screener was referring to my
comment about Kamala, because I remember one of you saying
that you thought she was attractive, and as a straight woman,
maybe I shouldn't judge, but I don't find anything attractive
about her.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I think Kamala is an awful politician, but I think
she is an attractive sixty year old woman, and I
think she used to be really good looking. Did I
just blow just blow Sey's mind? Did she just hang
up on the spot She was calling in to tell
us Luigi was good looking, but that I couldn't be
(36:14):
trusted because I said Kablo was good looking.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
But I just I need to know. I mean, who
is better looking, Luigi or Mario Mario, I mean Mario,
would the original active, he's the O G.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
I think, yeah, yeah, I think. I don't think there's
any doubt would we come back. A lot of people,
By the way, we could have some fun with this.
During the course of the show Buck, a lot of
people fired up about the Harry Potter versus Star Wars
debate we got into. We'll have some fun with that,
but also serious stuff. Our two next
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