February 5, 2025 • 33 mins
In this episode, Tudor reflects on the recent tragic air disasters and the emotional toll they take on families and communities. She speaks with Heidi Snow Cinader, who lost her fiancé in the TWA Flight 800 disaster. Heidi shares her personal journey of grief and the importance of support networks for those affected by sudden loss. The conversation highlights the role of media in such tragedies, the significance of remembering loved ones, and the creation of Access, an organization dedicated to providing long-term support for families impacted by air disasters. Learn more here: AccessHelp.org. The Tudor Dixon Podcast is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I think we're all
still reeling from what we saw last week at the
airport in Washington, d C. And also in Philadelphia, we
had two plane crashes. One was the small aircraft in
Philadelphia that was an ambulance aircraft, and the other was
an American Airlines flight that collided with a helicopter at
(00:22):
the Reagan International Airport in DC. And there were no
survivors I believe, in either of those examples there, but
with both the helicopter and the plane, and then the
ambulance airplane as well, no survivors. And I think the
entire country is reeling over this. We see this and
there brings up a bunch of fear overflying, but also
(00:44):
just the knowledge of all of these families that have
lost someone. I mean, I think as a parent, I
watch this and I go through and I see these
stories of kids that were lost, parents that are lost,
and kids that are now without a parent, and you
just watch this and you think, how do people get
through this? And then you see people who I mean,
(01:06):
I think we all watched where the man was in
the airport, and if you didn't see this, it was
very hard to watch. There was a young man in
the airport and he was waiting for his wife and
he had just received a text from her saying we're landing.
I'll be there in twenty minutes, and he was waiting
to see what happened, and a reporter came up and
asked to see the text message from his wife, and
(01:26):
people were like, wow, this is so invasive. But I
think at that time I give that reporter maybe a
little grace because I think at that time that reporter
probably didn't know what was happening either, because it's so
unusual to have an aircraft just go down like this
and to lose everyone on board. But I'm so glad
that we have someone with us today who wants to
(01:48):
talk about this, and her situation is she's lived through
this herself. It's a devastating situation. But I think all
of us are that at that moment where we're saying,
how do you get through something like this? What is
this like? And how do you get past the fear?
So I have at the time of her the incidents
for her, her name was Heidi Snow So you may
(02:10):
have heard of her, but her name is now Heidi
Senator Heidi, thank you so much for joining us. You've
gone through this yourself, and I appreciate you willing to
share because you lost your fiance on TWA flight eight
hundred back in July of nineteen ninety six. Thank you
for joining me.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Well, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I mean, as we watch this, we think about people
who go through this, and I don't know how you
get through it. Your story is to me especially emotional.
He actually proposed to you right before he got on
this flight, right.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yes, shortly before, Yes, tell.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Us a little bit about that, exactly what happened leading
up to the flight and then finding that out? What
is that like?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Well, we were in New York and he was heading
to Paris to train. He was a hockey player from
who had been on the Harvard hockey team and was
a professional hockey player, and he was going back for
training in New York. And I just remember he went
off to the airport and then a couple hours later,
(03:21):
I get a phone call from my mom saying, please
tell me Michelle did not get aboard a plane going
to Paris tonight. And I just remember turning on the
TV to the dark debris in the water floating and
all the and hearing basically that they're looking for survivors
and that this plane has gone down, and I just
(03:42):
remember just holding onto hope and when they said they're
looking for survivors and that there's a moment where you're
holding on hope that somehow he's going to swim to shore.
He's okay. I know he's in those waters, but he's okay.
And as I turned on the TV and saw this,
it was exactly was reliving my loss once again and
just thinking of all of them and how everybody's going
(04:05):
through these painful thoughts in their mind and all the unknowns.
I mean, one thing about air disasters it's different than
most sudden losses is there's really a lot of time
involved in figuring out, you know, were they officially on
the plane, and then until their remains are found, sometimes
there's still a little bit of time where we all
(04:25):
hope somehow they swim to shore, they're okay. And so
as this process goes on, it's a really difficult as
the reality starts to sit in and really is that
they're really gone forever. You know, most of us expect
a separation of just days and then suddenly it's forever,
and going through that process is really hard, and also
with air disasters, it's particularly hard because we just don't
(04:47):
know what their last moments were like, did they know
this was happening, where they scared, was there anything, There's
a lot of information that we just don't have about
what the final incident was like for them. And so
right after the incident, I remember gathering all gathered together
outside of Jfkare Report and all the families came together
(05:10):
and we waited for the remains to be found, and
I just remember being there for days, and when I
did shut down the site, still his remains had not
been found. And I remember trying to go back to
life as normal, and I, you know, basically, they're saying,
our site shut down, but go on with your life
and we'll let you know if they're found. For the
(05:30):
people who hadn't had their loved ones found, and I
found it particularly difficult. So I went back to New
York City and I remember I went to the Mayor's
office and I said, you know, I'd lost my fiance.
Is there a support route here for air disasters? And
he said there isn't one, but what we need one,
But He also said, you know what, the families of
PanAm flight one O three, which crashed eight years earlier,
(05:52):
we're all gathering together because they were reliving their losses
from witnessing flight eight hundred, and so I remember a
very kind person from that organization reached out and actually
even picked me up and drove me to their meeting.
And when I showed up there, it was so important
for me. I got to talk to other fiancees. I
(06:12):
got to see other people who had been through this
and realize that they're functioning and they're okay, and they're
still alive, and they were sharing their stories, and I
was sharing my story and being in the comfort of
them other people who'd been there before meant so much
to me. So I remember at that meeting, I said,
I'm the only person here from flight eight hundred, but
we all need you, and so I invited everybody. I said,
(06:35):
please give me your name and number and who you're lost,
and let's start making sure that your own call for
these families, because you've helped me so much. I really
need to know that we can pair you up with
others from our incident. And that's actually how ACCESS started
a very long time twenty seven years ago, was in
that room with that meeting when I learned that the
only people who really got it were people who had
(06:56):
been there before. And then, unfortunately, after that Swiss aircraft.
So then our two Way families and our PanAm families
were then on call for those families. And then we
had an Egypt air crash again out of JFK, and
then we had nine to eleven, and then we had
a last Airlines. We just had their anniversary two days ago.
We just sat with them through their memorial service, so
(07:20):
a lot of them are reliving their losses as well
as they're watching this all unfold and so our home
main purpose of access is to make sure people know
that they're not alone and that we're here for them.
So when people call for help, we pair them up
according to who they lost. So if somebody lost a child,
we pair them up with another person who lost a child,
and we really give them a mentor who will guide
(07:41):
them through the process, not just in the immediate because
right now there's a lot of wonderful people caring for them,
you know, at different sites in different locations, but we're
there for the long term. When they say, how do
I clean up my child's room. How do I go
back to work? How do I live after this? So
we're there after the funerals, we're there after the memorial
and our grief mentors, just a community of people who've
(08:03):
really lived through this pain before and all the unknowns
that come along with it that are super challenging, and
so are. We have the kindest, nicest people who I mean,
everybody came forward right when this happened, saying I'm on call,
We're ready, and then we're all talking and we're all
connecting as well, because it just brings us all back
to day one, when our lives all changed in an instant.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And certainly an emotional support group that you don't ever
want to have to expand because that means that another
disaster has occurred. And yet here it is a situation
that people will definitely need support through. And I think
one of the things that I read about you that
I found so fascinating was that people were like, Okay,
the funeral is over, you should move on, you should
(08:48):
get back to life. And I think anytime there's a
sudden death like this, I remember we lost a classmate
when I was sixteen. He was hit by a car,
and that was kind of Once the funeral was over,
that was kind of how well. Even my family kind
of reacted like, Okay, go back to school. And I couldn't.
I couldn't. I couldn't, Like my mind was so wrapped
around how can this happen? How can he just be gone?
(09:11):
How can life just end like that? And I think
with what you're saying with the airplanes and the aircraft casualties,
it is so different because it's not just you that knows.
I mean, when you talk about someone having a sudden death,
it's like your community wraps around you and your family
wraps around you. But in this case of the flight
(09:33):
in DC, of flight eight hundred, we all watched it,
you know, so the entire country is going we demand answers,
what happened? Is this going to happen to us? There's
this collective fear that probably doesn't make you feel any
more comfortable. It's probably much more difficult to manage when
it's on the news every day.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Right, And yes, definitely with flight one hundreds, for example,
there's been a lot of unknowns of what actually caused
the incident, and that's gone on for years and forever actually,
but really at the end of the day, our focus
is no matter what caused it or loved ones still
don't come home to us, and so our focus is
really on the grief piece and just making sure that
(10:13):
people have people who will honor their loved ones with
them for the long term. So we always celebrate their
birthdays with them. We make sure that they're never forgotten
and that we're there for them for their duration for
a long time. So you're really given basically a best
friend who is there for you, and you need to
talk to them who really remembers being there themselves and
(10:35):
just being a peer support and a lot of our care.
You're not telling them exactly what to do. That's not
what we do. What we do is with the comfort
of having somebody to talk to who's been there before.
And you know, when you're saying this, when the rest
of the world doesn't comprehend it, or grief mentors do.
They're really role models and people they can also look to.
(10:56):
How do you do certain things that other people wouldn't
understand would even be difficult, such as just like I
mentioned earlier, like going back to work or over time,
we've some people who've gotten remarried, for example, and a
lot of them talk to their grief mentors like, how
do I incorporate my loved one who I miss so
much in my future now? And how do I know
(11:18):
A big piece a lot for the parents is, you know,
how do I make sure to honor their loved one
and make sure that with For example, if there's a
spouse passed away and they have a lot of children,
our grief mentors say, you know, here's some ways to
honor the loved ones and teach their children how to
remember them. And so we just we focus on very
specific things based on the relationship with who they lost.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Stay tuned for more with the Tutor Dixon podcasts. But
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So what was it like for you? Because when you
when you lost him, there's this iconic picture of you
on the beach with family kind of saying goodbye, but
probably not. I mean that's how as the world we
(13:08):
saw that way. Oh they're out there saying goodbye. That
was just the beginning of goodbye for you, and really
probably not really at that point prepared to say, yeah,
we've given up pope, because I imagine that having never
found his remains, there was for months a part of
you that was like, could he be somewhere, could he
have could he be in a hospital somewhere, could there
(13:30):
be like a memory loss situation? You know, I just
imagine like all the things that my mind would go
through hoping that he was still around.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Right, Yes, And a lot of our brief mentors do
identify with that. I mean, yes, the rest of the
world says, of course they're gone, and look at the news.
But in our case, we really do count on that
to hold on hope. And that picture you're speaking of,
when I'm sitting there by the water, he remains it's
still not been found yet, and so I remember that
very well, just holding out hope maybe he'll Nobody else
(13:59):
in the world would come this and it doesn't sound
like it makes any sense to anyone else, but it is.
It was hope that I held on too, that somehow,
maybe he's survived it somehow, and so I knows. At
this point, they found many of the bodies, but there's
still many that have not been found yet. So it's
it's a very difficult time right now. And there's just
(14:20):
a lot of phases with this. Back to as you
were speaking about earlier, It's like, right, right now within
the news and all of that, and then there's new
events that happen, New information comes out, and sometimes it's
not accurate, and then that can be hurtful too, but
the families as well. So I think many of us
really understand that aspect of it, of the all the
(14:41):
unknowns that are coming forward, and who do you listen to?
You know what facts that are coming forward are true
right now or you know what really happened? And so
just a lot of us went through that process and
still today they are unknowns, even with Flight eight hundred
and many of the other incidents too. I imagine that
there's it's different now even then when you went through this,
(15:04):
because when you went through this, my gosh, there wasn't
social media.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
There wasn't the access to information and the wrong information
that there is today. And I think that's where you've
had all this discussion of you know, the pilot and
did our family keeper name out of it? For too long?
But my gosh, could we just be respectful of these
people who have lost someone? And I think for we
have become a society that's like we demand information immediately,
(15:29):
we want it right now, but we forget sometimes that
this is sixty seven families, and it's so much more
than that because those That's what I always say when
there's a disaster like this, It's not just sixty seven families,
it's everyone they touched. It's all the people they worked with,
all their best friends, all of their groups that get together,
(15:50):
their kids play with. Everybody in the community across the
country is affected by this because it's such a mass
casualty event that you have to respect the fact that
they're going through something you cannot even imagine. It's such
a special group of people that will be able to
(16:11):
bond like this through access because they've all gone through
something that so few of us will ever understand on
such a public level, where there is such a demand.
If you lose a loved one in a car accident,
the entire country is not like, how did it happen?
We want to know, But in this case, you have
everybody in the country saying, we're not going to get
(16:32):
on a plane again, tell us what exactly happened here,
and they're making assumptions. How do you handle now that
things have changed with social media, how do you handle
that and how do you come around the families in
that case.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
It's definitely changed a bit in that regard, and it
is very difficult, and that's why we're there. We're there
for people to be able to talk about how that
can be very difficult, and it's really having somebody else
who remembers. And we have had people, for example, in
general azation crashes where they blame the pilot and they're
reading this in the news and it's their father and
(17:05):
they were saying, what are you talking about? He was
such a skilled aviator and your facts aren't necessarily true,
and people the news hadn't even said it was some
person speculating, And so a lot of things, you're hitting
on a good point, which can be really hard when
information comes out that may or may not be accurate.
And it's also insulting to the family members to have
(17:25):
to hear things like that about their loved ones. So
the press and the media can actually be quite challenging
during this time as well, and we do focus on
that and we recognize that in over the years, I've
interviewed people all around the country and I actually wrote
a book called Surviving Sudden Loss Stories from Those who
have Lived It, where people share the story from the
(17:47):
moment they learn their loved one was affected by a
disaster or any type of sudden loss, and then they
give the story of who they've become over time, and
they just describe what was helpful, what was hurtful, some
of the things that people said that was not quite
as effective, even though the person meant well. So we've
done a lot of research in that space, and we
(18:07):
actually use that to sometimes train the airline care teams
and let them know what, you know, families from the
past have said, because it's really learning from those who
have lived it is really, i think the most effective
care for first responders who are at the site right now,
and also for friends who meanwhile and would like to
say the right things but don't quite know what to say,
and that kind of thing. So that's another piece that
(18:29):
we really work on, and it's all based on data
we've collected from people who have been in those shoes
and lived through that moment of right when they learned
they were lost. And we've even changed so some airlines
have the call centers and they have to actually call
the families and let them know their loved one was
a board the aircraft. So we've done training with an
airline on that you know, how do you make that
(18:51):
phone call? How do you introduce yourself and let them
know this happened? And I basically took data from other
people who remembered reading that phone call and receiving it,
and basically they described I remember when the person said
this to me, but it was it would have been
better maybe if they said this. So we really in
a very positive way. Nobody means harm in any way.
I know everybody means to say the right thing. But
(19:14):
so that has been a lot of our focus over
the last twenty seven years, actually interviewing people who have
lived it so that way people on the front lines
know the best way to greet them and talk to
them and make them feel heard.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Well, that's kind of why I brought up the reporter
that went up to the gentleman who the husband who
was at the airport, because I think that, you know,
hindsight is twenty twenty two, right, we're seeing this after
the fact this had just happened. I think that most
of us not I don't really think we fully understood
until morning that there would be no survivors. You know,
(19:47):
at that point, they were still hearing on the news
like they're in the water, they've got lights out there,
they're trying to find people, and you don't really have
a full understanding. And it's so rare, you know, this
is I think the last one was what two thousand
and six it was. It's so rare to have a
mass casualty aircraft event that I think that reporters don't
(20:07):
necessarily know what to how to handle this in the situation.
It's unfortunate that that got posted, I think, because my
heart goes out to that man. He's in his moments
of finding out that he's lost his wife, but really
not understanding what has happened, and that's all recorded and
it's all immediately out on social media. What would be
(20:30):
your advice to the media at this I'm sure you
had plenty of media contacting. You give us a little
overview of what that was like and what you would
say to the media if you could talk to them
right now, and.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I remember what would be I just think the main
thing is for them to listen and they tell me
about them, tell me about your loved one, and not
really necessarily go into the politics of it and asking
them questions about the recovery and things like that. So
I think it's really important to really focus on who
they lost and let them share what they're comfortable sharing
(21:03):
and letting them because it's also part of the grief
process too, to honor them. So sometimes if a news
story could be done well they're actually talking about the
loved one lost and not so much about the mechanics
of the air disaster and what happened. It's really like
I think sometimes everybody is trying to figure out what
happened and what the politics are around it and all
of those things, but the main thing is that these
(21:26):
people are not coming home, and to really I think
it's most important for people in the media to really
focus on who they lost and ask them questions about
that person and who they were. And that's really how
we focus on the grief piece. And yeah, I mean,
I think none of our other stuff actually matters down
the road. It's really that this person is gone and
(21:47):
your life's changed forever because they are not coming home, and.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
It is kind of human nature to focus on that.
How did it happen? How did it? I mean, I
remember I'm a cancer survivor and I remember family members
being like, but why did you get it? We don't know,
we don't will never know.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
And I read about that, and you've been through so much.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
But I mean, you know, those are things where you
get to talk about that then and tell other people, yeah,
you know, you can't. I could have focused on that,
and I would never have moved off of that, you know,
because then your life becomes consumed with how do you
prevent it the next time? But I think that's kind
of how we get with these disasters too, because we like,
we have to prevent it, we have to make sure
(22:29):
that we're safe, we have to make sure this doesn't
happen again. And with your situation with Flight eight hundred,
like you said, they never really knew what.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Happened, and it still goes on today that there's a
lot of just so not actual confirmation of what happened. Yeah,
and still today, interestingly you see you see people talking
about it, so obviously it is one of those things
that lasts for a very long time. And that's in
(22:59):
my I mean, from what I've read, it sounds like
that is why then you formed the Aircraft Casualty Emotional
Support Services. And I want to get that system or
that organization name out there because I think it is.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
So important that people get to hear what it is.
But you formed that because there is sometimes a focus
on the wrong thing, and people need the right people
to talk to them right right exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
And really help them feel that they can get through it,
because I think one of the hardest things is just
looking ahead and thinking, I can't survive this, I can't
get through this. What do I do? How do I
get how can I can even see the future. I'm
living in the moment right now, and I think sometimes
people try to say things like, oh, well, one day
(23:47):
you'll get married or one day and right now, that's
not what anyone wants to hear right now, and focusing
on where they are right now and not trying to
make plans to make it go away the Greeks go,
it's really focusing on where they are right now, What
do they need right now? What do they want to tell,
what did they want to talk about right now?
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon Podcast. You've had a lot of people
that have come together to be a part of this,
like your board of directors, your advisory board. It hasn't
been something partisan You've had Mary Giuliani, You've had Gavin Newsom,
You've had all kinds of people that have come together,
(24:27):
because when there is tragedy like this, I don't think,
I mean, I don't see partisan partisanship should not play
a role here. It seems like this is when the
country comes together and says, Okay, what's the best way
to take care of our own.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Right exactly And in hindsight, and I look back on
so many people who are so amazing that I wish
I could still think today. I think that's one of
the hardest things that I sometimes have when I still
remember we're read around the same time that they're in
right now with the DC incident, just where there are
people reaching out and trying to help, and I sometimes
(25:02):
I can't of remember all their names and stuff, And
I would do anything now to be able to go
back and thank them for really having the just sometimes
maybe they didn't say the right thing, but I know
their heart was in it and they were so incredible.
And I'm just so grateful for people over that time
that really were there for me and helped so much.
With the memorials, like you're speaking of the mayor at
(25:22):
the time he came forward, he rolled up his sleeves.
You know, he got me in touch with the right people.
And so there are some people out there who really
made a big difference in actually my grief process, and
I'm so grateful to them, and I'm like forever grateful,
But it really made a big difference in the long
run as well. But the main thing with what we
do is really making sure people have somebody to talk
(25:43):
to who has been in their shoes before, who can
provide hope and inspiration and let them know that they
can get through it and find the best ways to
honor their loved one. And you know, that's what a
lot of our grief mentors focus on is, you know,
here are some things that I did that I thought
was helpful. Here are some things that I didn't realize
I shouldn't have done. So they kind of learned from
each other, what you know, they to share what was
(26:04):
helpful and what was hurtful through their process, which I
think also helps those who are just starting this journey
as well, you know, finding the best ways to remember
and honor their loved one.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
One of the good things I think about social media
at a time like this is that you get to
see the people that need help. And that's something that
has actually been shocking to me, the number of people
that I know on a personal level that have said, oh,
you know, my best friend's wife, my sister's best friend,
or a family member of mine was on the plane,
(26:35):
And it just makes it brings that to light that
this is very real, it's very close to you. The
country is a lot smaller than you think it is,
and you may know someone who has been very closely
hit by this tragedy. So for that, I mean, I
want them to know your organization. But you also wrote
a book. Would you suggest that people read that book
(26:55):
as well so that they can understand how to talk
to people who have gone through this.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yes. Absolutely. The book is a wonderful tool for people
who have lost people, but also for people who are
providing care, because people really do touch on what was
helpful to them, what was hurtful to them, what people
said to them that made them feel so much better
in the different phases that they were in in their grief,
And that is really what the whole book is about,
(27:22):
is really like the first moments right when they learned
and who they become over time. And I have to
say they're all the most remarkable people who have been
through so much, and their stories are incredible and their
hearts are huge. These people who come forward to share
because they're doing it to help others. They want to
know that if they can share their stories that can
help others, and even the people from this incident one
(27:44):
day will be on the other side where they can
come forward to be trained and help unfortunately when the
next incident occurs. So it's really a community of productively
taking your loss and doing something productive with all the
harder knowledge that you've acquired from something that's just so hard.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yeah, and I think people who haven't gone through loss
don't understand that grief is not something that it's not
one day you're healed. You don't get healed from grief,
and grief comes in weird waves at times. You're not
expecting a sudden memory, something strikes you, a smell, something
hits you, and it's very hard. Your book is called
Surviving Sudden Loss Stories from Those who have lived it. Yes,
(28:27):
I think it's so pertinent right now, not just because
of this aircraft, but also we just came through a pandemic.
A lot of people had a sudden loss in their life,
and even though that was mostly four years ago, it
is so fresh. Four years is not a very long time,
and I think that this, I mean, you can tell us,
(28:49):
but would you recommend the book for those folks as well,
because I think it's very hard everybody wanted to get
through it. That was also an incredibly political situation, so
it's almost like, you know, it's not easy to talk
about something when you feel like you're still broken from
a situation that people have strong political feelings about.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yes, absolutely, so, I think the book is a really
good tool for all of that, and really and also
just being able to see ahead and realize that there's
a future for the people they're helping and for them
themselves on their journey to know that they can get
through it and that they can survive it, because I
just remember many days where I just couldn't imagine tomorrow
(29:29):
and how to get through it, and the pain was
so so, so painful and difficult to accept them being gone,
And oftentimes everybody's so young and they're just taken from
us before their time, and it's just unbelievable and just
so difficult to come to terms with and just to
(29:50):
know that you're not in it alone and you're not
the only one. Because I kind of remember leaving the
air disaster site and not knowing what to do. There
was sort of no there were no resources at all,
but I always wish in my back pocket somebody had
given me access to know even if I don't call
right away, I know that that's there for me and
I'm not. There is care out there for me, and
(30:12):
I always remember that. It's kind of when I started this,
thinking if I can know that people can leave a
site and leave all the immediate press and all the
attention it's getting now, know that now they can call
for help, but that they can also call in a
few months when they're having a hard time. So we're
not focused on just the immediate. We're really there for
(30:33):
the long haul. And sometimes people come to us many
years later after an incident and just say I've never
really been able to talk about it, and I really
need to do that now. And we've got people five
to ten years after incidents as well, because we didn't
exist back then, so a lot of people came forward
from past incidents well before Flight one hundred to be
a part of access as well. So it definitely sticks
(30:55):
with people and it's part of their life and it's
part of who they become. And not all ways, but
also very the people who I've interviewed are just remarkably strong,
incredible people who took what they went through and then
they've turned their lives around in different ways as a
result of it and really put time into honoring and
(31:16):
making their loved one who they lost a part of who.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
They are, including you. I mean, look at the organization
that you've created and how God has used this in
your life to be a light to people at their
darkest moments. I mean, I look at situations like this
and I see people like you who create an organization
around this that is so necessary. I mean, we look
at these organizations that are for veterans, organizations that are
(31:41):
for people that come through cancer, and you know, this
is something you don't think about. Is there an organization
for people who go through a sudden aircraft disaster like this?
But for someone who's gone through it now you're the
and when it happens, it's so many people at once.
It's just such a blessing to know that you out
there and that you have this for people. Can you
(32:02):
give everybody the address and how to find it so
in case they're in that situation, they will know how
to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Absolutely, we are here. In our website is access help
dot org acc ess ht LP dot org and people
can request carry there. You're welcome to share your stories
if you've been through loss, and if you've been through
this and you'd like to also be there for the
families and share what you've gone through, we're there for
(32:30):
you as well. So we are on call, and we
just want to make sure that people know they're not
alone in this process and that our community is there
and we've been there for many, many years and our
teams are incredible. We always have two hundred and fifty
brief mentors on call that we train through our organization,
(32:52):
and we've had thousands of calls for help over the
years from general aviation, military and commercial crashes, so it's
not always these major incidents that we see on the
news that we respond to as well. So that's part
of our pairing process too. So we pair people from
general aviation crashes together because it's a little bit of
a different process for them than when they're from a
(33:12):
major incident. That is highly publicized, so there are differences
that we try to make sure to make it as
close to what they went through to have a role
model who can provide a kind of perspective to them.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Well, you are such an impressive woman, Heidi. Thank you
so much for coming on the show today. Thank you
for sharing this. I know this is a very hard
subject and you have been blessed with the ability to
tell your story and we were blessed with hearing it today.
So thank you so much, so much, and thank you
all for joining us on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. For
this episode and others, go to Tutor disonpodcast dot com,
(33:49):
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your
podcasts and join us next time on the Tutor Dixon Podcast.
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I think we're all
still reeling from what we saw last week at the
airport in Washington, d C. And also in Philadelphia, we
had two plane crashes. One was the small aircraft in
Philadelphia that was an ambulance aircraft, and the other was
an American Airlines flight that collided with a helicopter at
(00:22):
the Reagan International Airport in DC. And there were no
survivors I believe, in either of those examples there, but
with both the helicopter and the plane, and then the
ambulance airplane as well, no survivors. And I think the
entire country is reeling over this. We see this and
there brings up a bunch of fear overflying, but also
(00:44):
just the knowledge of all of these families that have
lost someone. I mean, I think as a parent, I
watch this and I go through and I see these
stories of kids that were lost, parents that are lost,
and kids that are now without a parent, and you
just watch this and you think, how do people get
through this? And then you see people who I mean,
(01:06):
I think we all watched where the man was in
the airport, and if you didn't see this, it was
very hard to watch. There was a young man in
the airport and he was waiting for his wife and
he had just received a text from her saying we're landing.
I'll be there in twenty minutes, and he was waiting
to see what happened, and a reporter came up and
asked to see the text message from his wife, and
(01:26):
people were like, wow, this is so invasive. But I
think at that time I give that reporter maybe a
little grace because I think at that time that reporter
probably didn't know what was happening either, because it's so
unusual to have an aircraft just go down like this
and to lose everyone on board. But I'm so glad
that we have someone with us today who wants to
(01:48):
talk about this, and her situation is she's lived through
this herself. It's a devastating situation. But I think all
of us are that at that moment where we're saying,
how do you get through something like this? What is
this like? And how do you get past the fear?
So I have at the time of her the incidents
for her, her name was Heidi Snow So you may
(02:10):
have heard of her, but her name is now Heidi
Senator Heidi, thank you so much for joining us. You've
gone through this yourself, and I appreciate you willing to
share because you lost your fiance on TWA flight eight
hundred back in July of nineteen ninety six. Thank you
for joining me.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Well, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I mean, as we watch this, we think about people
who go through this, and I don't know how you
get through it. Your story is to me especially emotional.
He actually proposed to you right before he got on
this flight, right.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yes, shortly before, Yes, tell.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Us a little bit about that, exactly what happened leading
up to the flight and then finding that out? What
is that like?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Well, we were in New York and he was heading
to Paris to train. He was a hockey player from
who had been on the Harvard hockey team and was
a professional hockey player, and he was going back for
training in New York. And I just remember he went
off to the airport and then a couple hours later,
(03:21):
I get a phone call from my mom saying, please
tell me Michelle did not get aboard a plane going
to Paris tonight. And I just remember turning on the
TV to the dark debris in the water floating and
all the and hearing basically that they're looking for survivors
and that this plane has gone down, and I just
(03:42):
remember just holding onto hope and when they said they're
looking for survivors and that there's a moment where you're
holding on hope that somehow he's going to swim to shore.
He's okay. I know he's in those waters, but he's okay.
And as I turned on the TV and saw this,
it was exactly was reliving my loss once again and
just thinking of all of them and how everybody's going
(04:05):
through these painful thoughts in their mind and all the unknowns.
I mean, one thing about air disasters it's different than
most sudden losses is there's really a lot of time
involved in figuring out, you know, were they officially on
the plane, and then until their remains are found, sometimes
there's still a little bit of time where we all
(04:25):
hope somehow they swim to shore, they're okay. And so
as this process goes on, it's a really difficult as
the reality starts to sit in and really is that
they're really gone forever. You know, most of us expect
a separation of just days and then suddenly it's forever,
and going through that process is really hard, and also
with air disasters, it's particularly hard because we just don't
(04:47):
know what their last moments were like, did they know
this was happening, where they scared, was there anything, There's
a lot of information that we just don't have about
what the final incident was like for them. And so
right after the incident, I remember gathering all gathered together
outside of Jfkare Report and all the families came together
(05:10):
and we waited for the remains to be found, and
I just remember being there for days, and when I
did shut down the site, still his remains had not
been found. And I remember trying to go back to
life as normal, and I, you know, basically, they're saying,
our site shut down, but go on with your life
and we'll let you know if they're found. For the
(05:30):
people who hadn't had their loved ones found, and I
found it particularly difficult. So I went back to New
York City and I remember I went to the Mayor's
office and I said, you know, I'd lost my fiance.
Is there a support route here for air disasters? And
he said there isn't one, but what we need one,
But He also said, you know what, the families of
PanAm flight one O three, which crashed eight years earlier,
(05:52):
we're all gathering together because they were reliving their losses
from witnessing flight eight hundred, and so I remember a
very kind person from that organization reached out and actually
even picked me up and drove me to their meeting.
And when I showed up there, it was so important
for me. I got to talk to other fiancees. I
(06:12):
got to see other people who had been through this
and realize that they're functioning and they're okay, and they're
still alive, and they were sharing their stories, and I
was sharing my story and being in the comfort of
them other people who'd been there before meant so much
to me. So I remember at that meeting, I said,
I'm the only person here from flight eight hundred, but
we all need you, and so I invited everybody. I said,
(06:35):
please give me your name and number and who you're lost,
and let's start making sure that your own call for
these families, because you've helped me so much. I really
need to know that we can pair you up with
others from our incident. And that's actually how ACCESS started
a very long time twenty seven years ago, was in
that room with that meeting when I learned that the
only people who really got it were people who had
(06:56):
been there before. And then, unfortunately, after that Swiss aircraft.
So then our two Way families and our PanAm families
were then on call for those families. And then we
had an Egypt air crash again out of JFK, and
then we had nine to eleven, and then we had
a last Airlines. We just had their anniversary two days ago.
We just sat with them through their memorial service, so
(07:20):
a lot of them are reliving their losses as well
as they're watching this all unfold and so our home
main purpose of access is to make sure people know
that they're not alone and that we're here for them.
So when people call for help, we pair them up
according to who they lost. So if somebody lost a child,
we pair them up with another person who lost a child,
and we really give them a mentor who will guide
(07:41):
them through the process, not just in the immediate because
right now there's a lot of wonderful people caring for them,
you know, at different sites in different locations, but we're
there for the long term. When they say, how do
I clean up my child's room. How do I go
back to work? How do I live after this? So
we're there after the funerals, we're there after the memorial
and our grief mentors, just a community of people who've
(08:03):
really lived through this pain before and all the unknowns
that come along with it that are super challenging, and
so are. We have the kindest, nicest people who I mean,
everybody came forward right when this happened, saying I'm on call,
We're ready, and then we're all talking and we're all
connecting as well, because it just brings us all back
to day one, when our lives all changed in an instant.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And certainly an emotional support group that you don't ever
want to have to expand because that means that another
disaster has occurred. And yet here it is a situation
that people will definitely need support through. And I think
one of the things that I read about you that
I found so fascinating was that people were like, Okay,
the funeral is over, you should move on, you should
(08:48):
get back to life. And I think anytime there's a
sudden death like this, I remember we lost a classmate
when I was sixteen. He was hit by a car,
and that was kind of Once the funeral was over,
that was kind of how well. Even my family kind
of reacted like, Okay, go back to school. And I couldn't.
I couldn't. I couldn't, Like my mind was so wrapped
around how can this happen? How can he just be gone?
(09:11):
How can life just end like that? And I think
with what you're saying with the airplanes and the aircraft casualties,
it is so different because it's not just you that knows.
I mean, when you talk about someone having a sudden death,
it's like your community wraps around you and your family
wraps around you. But in this case of the flight
(09:33):
in DC, of flight eight hundred, we all watched it,
you know, so the entire country is going we demand answers,
what happened? Is this going to happen to us? There's
this collective fear that probably doesn't make you feel any
more comfortable. It's probably much more difficult to manage when
it's on the news every day.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Right, And yes, definitely with flight one hundreds, for example,
there's been a lot of unknowns of what actually caused
the incident, and that's gone on for years and forever actually,
but really at the end of the day, our focus
is no matter what caused it or loved ones still
don't come home to us, and so our focus is
really on the grief piece and just making sure that
(10:13):
people have people who will honor their loved ones with
them for the long term. So we always celebrate their
birthdays with them. We make sure that they're never forgotten
and that we're there for them for their duration for
a long time. So you're really given basically a best
friend who is there for you, and you need to
talk to them who really remembers being there themselves and
(10:35):
just being a peer support and a lot of our care.
You're not telling them exactly what to do. That's not
what we do. What we do is with the comfort
of having somebody to talk to who's been there before.
And you know, when you're saying this, when the rest
of the world doesn't comprehend it, or grief mentors do.
They're really role models and people they can also look to.
(10:56):
How do you do certain things that other people wouldn't
understand would even be difficult, such as just like I
mentioned earlier, like going back to work or over time,
we've some people who've gotten remarried, for example, and a
lot of them talk to their grief mentors like, how
do I incorporate my loved one who I miss so
much in my future now? And how do I know
(11:18):
A big piece a lot for the parents is, you know,
how do I make sure to honor their loved one
and make sure that with For example, if there's a
spouse passed away and they have a lot of children,
our grief mentors say, you know, here's some ways to
honor the loved ones and teach their children how to
remember them. And so we just we focus on very
specific things based on the relationship with who they lost.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Stay tuned for more with the Tutor Dixon podcasts. But
first let me tell you about my partners at IFCJ.
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four three two five. We've got more coming up. Stay tuned.
So what was it like for you? Because when you
when you lost him, there's this iconic picture of you
on the beach with family kind of saying goodbye, but
probably not. I mean that's how as the world we
(13:08):
saw that way. Oh they're out there saying goodbye. That
was just the beginning of goodbye for you, and really
probably not really at that point prepared to say, yeah,
we've given up pope, because I imagine that having never
found his remains, there was for months a part of
you that was like, could he be somewhere, could he
have could he be in a hospital somewhere, could there
(13:30):
be like a memory loss situation? You know, I just
imagine like all the things that my mind would go
through hoping that he was still around.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Right, Yes, And a lot of our brief mentors do
identify with that. I mean, yes, the rest of the
world says, of course they're gone, and look at the news.
But in our case, we really do count on that
to hold on hope. And that picture you're speaking of,
when I'm sitting there by the water, he remains it's
still not been found yet, and so I remember that
very well, just holding out hope maybe he'll Nobody else
(13:59):
in the world would come this and it doesn't sound
like it makes any sense to anyone else, but it is.
It was hope that I held on too, that somehow,
maybe he's survived it somehow, and so I knows. At
this point, they found many of the bodies, but there's
still many that have not been found yet. So it's
it's a very difficult time right now. And there's just
(14:20):
a lot of phases with this. Back to as you
were speaking about earlier, It's like, right, right now within
the news and all of that, and then there's new
events that happen, New information comes out, and sometimes it's
not accurate, and then that can be hurtful too, but
the families as well. So I think many of us
really understand that aspect of it, of the all the
(14:41):
unknowns that are coming forward, and who do you listen to?
You know what facts that are coming forward are true
right now or you know what really happened? And so
just a lot of us went through that process and
still today they are unknowns, even with Flight eight hundred
and many of the other incidents too. I imagine that
there's it's different now even then when you went through this,
(15:04):
because when you went through this, my gosh, there wasn't
social media.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
There wasn't the access to information and the wrong information
that there is today. And I think that's where you've
had all this discussion of you know, the pilot and
did our family keeper name out of it? For too long?
But my gosh, could we just be respectful of these
people who have lost someone? And I think for we
have become a society that's like we demand information immediately,
(15:29):
we want it right now, but we forget sometimes that
this is sixty seven families, and it's so much more
than that because those That's what I always say when
there's a disaster like this, It's not just sixty seven families,
it's everyone they touched. It's all the people they worked with,
all their best friends, all of their groups that get together,
(15:50):
their kids play with. Everybody in the community across the
country is affected by this because it's such a mass
casualty event that you have to respect the fact that
they're going through something you cannot even imagine. It's such
a special group of people that will be able to
(16:11):
bond like this through access because they've all gone through
something that so few of us will ever understand on
such a public level, where there is such a demand.
If you lose a loved one in a car accident,
the entire country is not like, how did it happen?
We want to know, But in this case, you have
everybody in the country saying, we're not going to get
(16:32):
on a plane again, tell us what exactly happened here,
and they're making assumptions. How do you handle now that
things have changed with social media, how do you handle
that and how do you come around the families in
that case.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
It's definitely changed a bit in that regard, and it
is very difficult, and that's why we're there. We're there
for people to be able to talk about how that
can be very difficult, and it's really having somebody else
who remembers. And we have had people, for example, in
general azation crashes where they blame the pilot and they're
reading this in the news and it's their father and
(17:05):
they were saying, what are you talking about? He was
such a skilled aviator and your facts aren't necessarily true,
and people the news hadn't even said it was some
person speculating, And so a lot of things, you're hitting
on a good point, which can be really hard when
information comes out that may or may not be accurate.
And it's also insulting to the family members to have
(17:25):
to hear things like that about their loved ones. So
the press and the media can actually be quite challenging
during this time as well, and we do focus on
that and we recognize that in over the years, I've
interviewed people all around the country and I actually wrote
a book called Surviving Sudden Loss Stories from Those who
have Lived It, where people share the story from the
(17:47):
moment they learn their loved one was affected by a
disaster or any type of sudden loss, and then they
give the story of who they've become over time, and
they just describe what was helpful, what was hurtful, some
of the things that people said that was not quite
as effective, even though the person meant well. So we've
done a lot of research in that space, and we
(18:07):
actually use that to sometimes train the airline care teams
and let them know what, you know, families from the
past have said, because it's really learning from those who
have lived it is really, i think the most effective
care for first responders who are at the site right now,
and also for friends who meanwhile and would like to
say the right things but don't quite know what to say,
and that kind of thing. So that's another piece that
(18:29):
we really work on, and it's all based on data
we've collected from people who have been in those shoes
and lived through that moment of right when they learned
they were lost. And we've even changed so some airlines
have the call centers and they have to actually call
the families and let them know their loved one was
a board the aircraft. So we've done training with an
airline on that you know, how do you make that
(18:51):
phone call? How do you introduce yourself and let them
know this happened? And I basically took data from other
people who remembered reading that phone call and receiving it,
and basically they described I remember when the person said
this to me, but it was it would have been
better maybe if they said this. So we really in
a very positive way. Nobody means harm in any way.
I know everybody means to say the right thing. But
(19:14):
so that has been a lot of our focus over
the last twenty seven years, actually interviewing people who have
lived it so that way people on the front lines
know the best way to greet them and talk to
them and make them feel heard.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Well, that's kind of why I brought up the reporter
that went up to the gentleman who the husband who
was at the airport, because I think that, you know,
hindsight is twenty twenty two, right, we're seeing this after
the fact this had just happened. I think that most
of us not I don't really think we fully understood
until morning that there would be no survivors. You know,
(19:47):
at that point, they were still hearing on the news
like they're in the water, they've got lights out there,
they're trying to find people, and you don't really have
a full understanding. And it's so rare, you know, this
is I think the last one was what two thousand
and six it was. It's so rare to have a
mass casualty aircraft event that I think that reporters don't
(20:07):
necessarily know what to how to handle this in the situation.
It's unfortunate that that got posted, I think, because my
heart goes out to that man. He's in his moments
of finding out that he's lost his wife, but really
not understanding what has happened, and that's all recorded and
it's all immediately out on social media. What would be
(20:30):
your advice to the media at this I'm sure you
had plenty of media contacting. You give us a little
overview of what that was like and what you would
say to the media if you could talk to them
right now, and.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I remember what would be I just think the main
thing is for them to listen and they tell me
about them, tell me about your loved one, and not
really necessarily go into the politics of it and asking
them questions about the recovery and things like that. So
I think it's really important to really focus on who
they lost and let them share what they're comfortable sharing
(21:03):
and letting them because it's also part of the grief
process too, to honor them. So sometimes if a news
story could be done well they're actually talking about the
loved one lost and not so much about the mechanics
of the air disaster and what happened. It's really like
I think sometimes everybody is trying to figure out what
happened and what the politics are around it and all
of those things, but the main thing is that these
(21:26):
people are not coming home, and to really I think
it's most important for people in the media to really
focus on who they lost and ask them questions about
that person and who they were. And that's really how
we focus on the grief piece. And yeah, I mean,
I think none of our other stuff actually matters down
the road. It's really that this person is gone and
(21:47):
your life's changed forever because they are not coming home, and.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
It is kind of human nature to focus on that.
How did it happen? How did it? I mean, I
remember I'm a cancer survivor and I remember family members
being like, but why did you get it? We don't know,
we don't will never know.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
And I read about that, and you've been through so much.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
But I mean, you know, those are things where you
get to talk about that then and tell other people, yeah,
you know, you can't. I could have focused on that,
and I would never have moved off of that, you know,
because then your life becomes consumed with how do you
prevent it the next time? But I think that's kind
of how we get with these disasters too, because we like,
we have to prevent it, we have to make sure
(22:29):
that we're safe, we have to make sure this doesn't
happen again. And with your situation with Flight eight hundred,
like you said, they never really knew what.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Happened, and it still goes on today that there's a
lot of just so not actual confirmation of what happened. Yeah,
and still today, interestingly you see you see people talking
about it, so obviously it is one of those things
that lasts for a very long time. And that's in
(22:59):
my I mean, from what I've read, it sounds like
that is why then you formed the Aircraft Casualty Emotional
Support Services. And I want to get that system or
that organization name out there because I think it is.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
So important that people get to hear what it is.
But you formed that because there is sometimes a focus
on the wrong thing, and people need the right people
to talk to them right right exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
And really help them feel that they can get through it,
because I think one of the hardest things is just
looking ahead and thinking, I can't survive this, I can't
get through this. What do I do? How do I
get how can I can even see the future. I'm
living in the moment right now, and I think sometimes
people try to say things like, oh, well, one day
(23:47):
you'll get married or one day and right now, that's
not what anyone wants to hear right now, and focusing
on where they are right now and not trying to
make plans to make it go away the Greeks go,
it's really focusing on where they are right now, What
do they need right now? What do they want to tell,
what did they want to talk about right now?
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon Podcast. You've had a lot of people
that have come together to be a part of this,
like your board of directors, your advisory board. It hasn't
been something partisan You've had Mary Giuliani, You've had Gavin Newsom,
You've had all kinds of people that have come together,
(24:27):
because when there is tragedy like this, I don't think,
I mean, I don't see partisan partisanship should not play
a role here. It seems like this is when the
country comes together and says, Okay, what's the best way
to take care of our own.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Right exactly And in hindsight, and I look back on
so many people who are so amazing that I wish
I could still think today. I think that's one of
the hardest things that I sometimes have when I still
remember we're read around the same time that they're in
right now with the DC incident, just where there are
people reaching out and trying to help, and I sometimes
(25:02):
I can't of remember all their names and stuff, And
I would do anything now to be able to go
back and thank them for really having the just sometimes
maybe they didn't say the right thing, but I know
their heart was in it and they were so incredible.
And I'm just so grateful for people over that time
that really were there for me and helped so much.
With the memorials, like you're speaking of the mayor at
(25:22):
the time he came forward, he rolled up his sleeves.
You know, he got me in touch with the right people.
And so there are some people out there who really
made a big difference in actually my grief process, and
I'm so grateful to them, and I'm like forever grateful,
But it really made a big difference in the long
run as well. But the main thing with what we
do is really making sure people have somebody to talk
(25:43):
to who has been in their shoes before, who can
provide hope and inspiration and let them know that they
can get through it and find the best ways to
honor their loved one. And you know, that's what a
lot of our grief mentors focus on is, you know,
here are some things that I did that I thought
was helpful. Here are some things that I didn't realize
I shouldn't have done. So they kind of learned from
each other, what you know, they to share what was
(26:04):
helpful and what was hurtful through their process, which I
think also helps those who are just starting this journey
as well, you know, finding the best ways to remember
and honor their loved one.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
One of the good things I think about social media
at a time like this is that you get to
see the people that need help. And that's something that
has actually been shocking to me, the number of people
that I know on a personal level that have said, oh,
you know, my best friend's wife, my sister's best friend,
or a family member of mine was on the plane,
(26:35):
And it just makes it brings that to light that
this is very real, it's very close to you. The
country is a lot smaller than you think it is,
and you may know someone who has been very closely
hit by this tragedy. So for that, I mean, I
want them to know your organization. But you also wrote
a book. Would you suggest that people read that book
(26:55):
as well so that they can understand how to talk
to people who have gone through this.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yes. Absolutely. The book is a wonderful tool for people
who have lost people, but also for people who are
providing care, because people really do touch on what was
helpful to them, what was hurtful to them, what people
said to them that made them feel so much better
in the different phases that they were in in their grief,
And that is really what the whole book is about,
(27:22):
is really like the first moments right when they learned
and who they become over time. And I have to
say they're all the most remarkable people who have been
through so much, and their stories are incredible and their
hearts are huge. These people who come forward to share
because they're doing it to help others. They want to
know that if they can share their stories that can
help others, and even the people from this incident one
(27:44):
day will be on the other side where they can
come forward to be trained and help unfortunately when the
next incident occurs. So it's really a community of productively
taking your loss and doing something productive with all the
harder knowledge that you've acquired from something that's just so hard.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yeah, and I think people who haven't gone through loss
don't understand that grief is not something that it's not
one day you're healed. You don't get healed from grief,
and grief comes in weird waves at times. You're not
expecting a sudden memory, something strikes you, a smell, something
hits you, and it's very hard. Your book is called
Surviving Sudden Loss Stories from Those who have lived it. Yes,
(28:27):
I think it's so pertinent right now, not just because
of this aircraft, but also we just came through a pandemic.
A lot of people had a sudden loss in their life,
and even though that was mostly four years ago, it
is so fresh. Four years is not a very long time,
and I think that this, I mean, you can tell us,
(28:49):
but would you recommend the book for those folks as well,
because I think it's very hard everybody wanted to get
through it. That was also an incredibly political situation, so
it's almost like, you know, it's not easy to talk
about something when you feel like you're still broken from
a situation that people have strong political feelings about.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yes, absolutely, so, I think the book is a really
good tool for all of that, and really and also
just being able to see ahead and realize that there's
a future for the people they're helping and for them
themselves on their journey to know that they can get
through it and that they can survive it, because I
just remember many days where I just couldn't imagine tomorrow
(29:29):
and how to get through it, and the pain was
so so, so painful and difficult to accept them being gone,
And oftentimes everybody's so young and they're just taken from
us before their time, and it's just unbelievable and just
so difficult to come to terms with and just to
(29:50):
know that you're not in it alone and you're not
the only one. Because I kind of remember leaving the
air disaster site and not knowing what to do. There
was sort of no there were no resources at all,
but I always wish in my back pocket somebody had
given me access to know even if I don't call
right away, I know that that's there for me and
I'm not. There is care out there for me, and
(30:12):
I always remember that. It's kind of when I started this,
thinking if I can know that people can leave a
site and leave all the immediate press and all the
attention it's getting now, know that now they can call
for help, but that they can also call in a
few months when they're having a hard time. So we're
not focused on just the immediate. We're really there for
(30:33):
the long haul. And sometimes people come to us many
years later after an incident and just say I've never
really been able to talk about it, and I really
need to do that now. And we've got people five
to ten years after incidents as well, because we didn't
exist back then, so a lot of people came forward
from past incidents well before Flight one hundred to be
a part of access as well. So it definitely sticks
(30:55):
with people and it's part of their life and it's
part of who they become. And not all ways, but
also very the people who I've interviewed are just remarkably strong,
incredible people who took what they went through and then
they've turned their lives around in different ways as a
result of it and really put time into honoring and
(31:16):
making their loved one who they lost a part of who.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
They are, including you. I mean, look at the organization
that you've created and how God has used this in
your life to be a light to people at their
darkest moments. I mean, I look at situations like this
and I see people like you who create an organization
around this that is so necessary. I mean, we look
at these organizations that are for veterans, organizations that are
(31:41):
for people that come through cancer, and you know, this
is something you don't think about. Is there an organization
for people who go through a sudden aircraft disaster like this?
But for someone who's gone through it now you're the
and when it happens, it's so many people at once.
It's just such a blessing to know that you out
there and that you have this for people. Can you
(32:02):
give everybody the address and how to find it so
in case they're in that situation, they will know how
to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Absolutely, we are here. In our website is access help
dot org acc ess ht LP dot org and people
can request carry there. You're welcome to share your stories
if you've been through loss, and if you've been through
this and you'd like to also be there for the
families and share what you've gone through, we're there for
(32:30):
you as well. So we are on call, and we
just want to make sure that people know they're not
alone in this process and that our community is there
and we've been there for many, many years and our
teams are incredible. We always have two hundred and fifty
brief mentors on call that we train through our organization,
(32:52):
and we've had thousands of calls for help over the
years from general aviation, military and commercial crashes, so it's
not always these major incidents that we see on the
news that we respond to as well. So that's part
of our pairing process too. So we pair people from
general aviation crashes together because it's a little bit of
a different process for them than when they're from a
(33:12):
major incident. That is highly publicized, so there are differences
that we try to make sure to make it as
close to what they went through to have a role
model who can provide a kind of perspective to them.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Well, you are such an impressive woman, Heidi. Thank you
so much for coming on the show today. Thank you
for sharing this. I know this is a very hard
subject and you have been blessed with the ability to
tell your story and we were blessed with hearing it today.
So thank you so much, so much, and thank you
all for joining us on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. For
this episode and others, go to Tutor disonpodcast dot com,
(33:49):
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your
podcasts and join us next time on the Tutor Dixon Podcast.
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