March 19, 2025 • 25 mins
Buck Sexton is joined by Alex Berenson to break down the latest revelations about COVID origins, big pharma, and the failures of the medical establishment. They discuss the New York Times' delayed admission that the public was misled, the lack of accountability for lockdown policies, and why Gen Z is shifting to the right. Berenson also dives into the dangers of pharmaceutical advertising, the opioid crisis.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
You're listening to the Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure
you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or
wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, Alex Berenson back
with us. Now you all know him, the guy who
is right about all the COVID stuff when it was
hard to be right. And we're going to talk about
some of that and also big pharma and other interesting
(00:31):
things going on in the world today. He has unreported
truths on subseack, which you should subscribe to. I am
a subscriber. Definitely go check that. Alex, let's start with this.
What are your thoughts as you're reading? And everyone who's
a I think pretty much a subscriber here on the
podcast remembers you, remembers your work, remembers you going on
Tucker Show, remembers you going on Clay and Buck talking
about the COVID stuff and all the heat you were getting.
(00:54):
The New York Times puts out a big piece now
we were misled on the COVID origins, Like it's been
five years. Really, now, what do you make of that?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Well, I mean I don't know what's more infuriating the
fact that like five years in and they're still pretending
there's a debate or the fact that you know, the
person who wrote this she yeah, she attacks Fauci. Great,
she says, you know, Christian Anderson is full of it. Great,
we know that. What is she not mentioned in the
New York Times. She's not mentioned that The New York
(01:27):
Times was pushing this nonsense. Not just in twenty twenty, when, okay,
you could say, well, you know, the scientific community did
at least was being steered by Fauci, but in twenty
twenty one, in twenty twenty two, in twenty twenty three,
long after there was tons of independent evidence, and frankly,
(01:48):
after twenty twenty one, we knew about the cover up too,
because of the good work that some independent journalists have
done and some foia. There was tons of evidence, and
yet the New York Times was still relying on Christian Anderson,
who is this, you know, immunologist in San Diego, on
a few other people who clearly had financial skin in
the game, who clearly were talking their book. And fine, okay,
(02:12):
you want to attack those people, great, but don't pretend
it's not. As I wrote in my sub sect yesterday,
what the smizzer said is not we were misled. It's
we and the science has misled you. And so yeah,
it's infuriating.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I sit here and I just think that there has
to be a bigger, bigger reckoning than what we've seen
so far on the issue. I know, I know, it
has been five years. I'm a little bit like the
guy who refuses to give up give up the fight here.
I mean, I think a lot of people on the
right have moved on with this. I still maybe because
(02:50):
I moved to Florida and left New York, which I
thought would never never happen. I never thought I would
leave New York City. But I'm not over it. I'm
not okay with it. And then we have Cuomo. Cuomo
wants to be not just the governor, not just the
mayor of New York City, after having been a governor
who had to resign for giving too many grabs and
(03:10):
smooches to his ladies on staff. But he, I think
clearly wants to use it as a platform to run
for president. And he's been getting a little bit of
people have been pushing a little bit on, Hey, remember
what you did during during COVID does no one in
New York Cara, remember Cuomo Chips and all the madness
with this guy.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
No, I think they do.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
The problem is that, you know, there's not a lot
of great choices for New York City mayor right now,
I mean, from Mark Adams on down. I haven't looked
at the poles. I don't even know if there's been poles.
So I don't know if Clomo can win.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Can I just tell you? Because he is by far
number one in the polls, I think he doubles the
next closest person support and I think he just announced
officially or he's about to announce officially.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
So I mean that, you know, I will say that
Anthony Weener for a time had and it was sort
of a similar thing. After he got bounced from Congress.
He was running and it looked like he had a chance,
and then suddenly he didn't have a chance.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Now Cuomo's you know, it's a situation.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Uh but but we'll see what happens when you know,
when people are actually kind of reminded by the way.
One of the many terrible things of the Biden era,
the Biden and Kamala era, is it has convinced every
fourth rate Democratic politician that they can be presidents, right
because if those two, you know, one of them was president,
(04:33):
one of them, you know, was the Democratic nominee.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So you have you have Tim.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Walls running around, you have Cuomo, you know, the disgraced
governor positioning himself.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
You have having news some doing.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Whatever he can to pretend that he wasn't governor of
California in the last eight years or whatever it was.
It's really, uh, you know, it's really the seven dwarves
are out in force right now. And you know, it's
interesting you say that there hasn't been a reckoning, and
they're clearly hasn't. There hasn't been a political or legal reckoning.
And it's also interesting to me Donald trumpet. You know, look,
(05:08):
he clearly there's a lot of scores he wants to settle.
He does not seem very interested in reopening COVID, and
you know, I don't know why that is. I haven't
talked to people in the administration about why that is.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
And maybe it's a question worth asking.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Maybe he just has so many other sort of things
that are more personal to him that he wants to
settle first, or maybe he doesn't he doesn't care particularly.
I do think that there's increasingly a cultural reckoning. And
you know, I I tweeted about or I posted about
this today that you know, the New York Times there
was there's a Democratic strategist who it seems like a
(05:45):
pretty honest guy talking about how far to the right
young people, mostly men, but some women too, have moved
in the last four years. And to me, that is
clearly COVID driven, you know, because because look, if you're
twenty three, you're not that worried about inflation, okay you are.
You are worried about what you saw five years ago,
(06:05):
when it became pretty clear to you that the medical
establishment and all these people who were on TV didn't
really have your interest at heart at all, and there
could be this medical authoritarian state. And I think that
that has moved young people significantly to the right.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
So I think we're I.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Think, can we can we dig into that? Because that
was actually I saw your tweet on that, and that
was why I was like, you know, I got to
talk to Alex about this today. So gen Z moves
to the right because of the medical authoritarian madness. That's
a that I think that the data certainly shows that,
and we can there's a number of factors. The assault
on masculinity, certainly for men, which is a very real,
(06:41):
very real thing. Uh, that they can't come up with
words to make being a man seem bad and make
us all try to use those words and then say
what assault on masculinely like like we're we're aware of this.
It's like when Gavin Newsom says no one on his
staff said latin X, and then there's all this stuff
that comes out about him and others on his staff
saying latin X. You know, they're just trying to blatantly
rewrite history. But there there was it. There was a
(07:05):
point at which society decided, and it was really the
you know, the expert cudentialed class in the medical but
really just in the sort of in general that if
it meant a one percent, not even one percent, if
it meant to point zero zero one percent in hospitalizations
for the elderly, no high school graduations, no sports, no
(07:28):
socializing with your friends for years, for years, for years.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
It was crazy.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
And you know, again like I don't I don't feel
like I was any genius to say this was crazy,
and you know, and to count out to the teachers'
unions and say we're not going to reopen schools.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Oh, we are going to reopen schools.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
They just have to be properly ventilated, which is going
to take twenty years to do. I mean, it was
all insanity, and you know when and I got to go.
I can go back and find the posts or find
the subject.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
But when did it be okay? When did it become
okay for society to sacrifice the young for the old?
It's the absolute opposite of what we should be doing.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
And you know, I have three kids, but like, did
you really need to have kids to recognize what a
terrible idea that was?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:20):
No, I didn't have kids yet. I got one on
the way right now, be here in a few weeks,
thank you. Very exciting. But yeah, I remember sitting in
my tiny one bedroom in New York City as the
whole place went completely insane, and I just walking around like,
what what has happened to all of you people? And
can I give you something?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
That?
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Really another reason why Benson came to mind here, I
was have you seen this show? It's on It's on Max,
which used to be HBO The Pit. Are you familiar
with this?
Speaker 2 (08:48):
This shows?
Speaker 1 (08:49):
It's funny Noah Wiley, who was on the original er,
The Michael Crichton Er from the nineties, which was a
very celebrated and popular show. Then he's now the lead
doctor in the It's basically e R in Pittsburgh. I
forget what the original EAR was, but it's the same
thing and just an emergency room drama. It's actually pretty
well done. You might like it. I mean, the medical
stuff is interesting. It seems, at least to my civilian
(09:13):
non doctor I pretty realistic for what it is. I mean,
certainly the super long waits in the er, you know,
in the waiting room, and like the mess. You know,
they don't walk away from that stuff. But there's a
whole scene where this guy gets so it's clearly supposed
to be a Trump supporter too. Who doesn't want someone
who doesn't want to be told to wear a mask?
And he's like, well, you know, when we're doing our
surgery on you, like experts who save lives recognize that
(09:36):
it reduces infection to wear a mask. And I mean,
I wanted my wife was there. I'm not somebody who
talked to her. I was just furious they're still doing
this thing now, aren't they they're still gonna do those. Yeah,
but masks, but masks really will save us, like they haven't.
The medical establishment hasn't entirely abandoned this.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
No, and even you know, so the Times they wrote
this piece on Sunday, and you know, two thirds of
the way down there was the the line which I
did not say publicly, but this is a podcast, so
it's still publicized. I probably shouldn't say, but it was
essentially the officer she was asked for it line where
it's like, well, there were good reasons for them to
lie about all this stuff, including essentially the fact that
(10:16):
Trump was calling it the woo flu. You know, even
though that that wasn't that wasn't exactly how it was phrased,
but it was like it was like they had reasons
to want to, you know, buffer trust in the scientific
establishment by lying about where the where it came from.
It's like, just admit it was totally wrong and you
shouldn't have done it. And let's I mean, I'm not
gonna say let's move on, but let's start with that.
(10:39):
And let's start with we're not going to pretend that
lockdown's work. We're not going to pretend that the MR
and as you know, were a particularly big scientific advance,
like we can. You can argue with me if you
want about whether you know whether or not they worked
at all or for how long they were.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
We can have a reasonable discussion about that.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
But every time I read how they saved millions of
lives and you know we're this movement, It's like, Okay,
then why is maderna stock.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Down ninety three percent from its high? Right?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
The people who actually put money in the game know
that this. But this was a complete hype job and
didn't do very much.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
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ninety eight, ninety eight ninety eight. All Right, Alex, the
the new administration on the health stuff, what's what is
the most important thing or things that you think could
be looked at for reform, for transparency? There was a lot,
I know, I know, I know. Particularly it's like right
(12:18):
wing moms who are more excited about RFK junior at
AHHS than really any like any other senior position other
than maybe Trump himself, right, And I always want to
have some of them what what should be done? What
do they want him to do? What do you want
him to do?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Well, you know one thing that if they can find a.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Way to do this within the balance of the First Amendment,
they can reduce the amount of pharmaceutical.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Advertising on television. That would unquestionably be a good thing.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
And again, like maybe you force them to put in
so many disclaimers that it becomes economically impossible. Maybe you
say that the ads have to you know, look a
certain way so that they're not so attractive. But I
do think that clearly, you know, pharmaceutical advertising is a
bad thing generally, right it It encourages over prescriptions. And
(13:14):
in the US, we use a lot of drugs, we
use all you know, in every category, we use lots
and lots of drugs and probably over prescribe. And that's
probably led, you know, because physicians come under pressure from
you know, from people who've seen these ads, and and
it's easier at some point just to agree to get
them out of your office than to and to explain
(13:34):
to them, hey, maybe you should maybe you should exercise
some more.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Or whatever the you know, whatever the solution might be.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
So I think I think reducing pharmaceutical advertising would be
a good thing.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Now, again, there's a First Amendment issue there that they're
going to have to figure out.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
My personal uh uh bugaboo these days, and something that
I've written about recently for Unreported Truths for my sub
second and I'm thinking very very seriously about writing a
book about is about opioids, and generally sort of this
move towards you know, what I call drugs of abuse,
(14:07):
addictive drugs whether and that can be that can be
you know, that can be opioids, that can be amphetamines,
that can be sort of the state level way that
we've legalized cannabis, the United States has a terrible problem
with addiction and overdose.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
And can I tell you.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
That one of the things that I know you've been
for a long time somebody who's just very opposed to weed.
And there are very few areas in public policy life
where I think I have been kind of bamboozled. You know,
maybe it's a little self congratulatory, but I tend to
be good at smelling the bs uh. And I believed
the oh legalized doing criminal not about anything except for weed.
(14:48):
I mean, I was never like, oh, yeah, heroin, just
like let people inject. I mean, you know, because there's
different right there. There's a difference between you know, the
difference between being bitten by a chihuahua and being bitten
by a lion. Like there's a difference between weed and fentanyl, clearly,
but even with weed, I you know, and I think
maybe it's part of my generation too, and all the
libertarians I knew were like, come on, man, like everyone's
(15:09):
serving all this time in prison for weed, but that
it was not that bad for you and really important
medicinally years ago. It's been about a decade, but years ago,
I believed that. And now when I see this stuff,
I'm like, that is just bull.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It is crap. Yes, it is crap.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
It is It is just it is just a very
powerful and toxican and and you know, if you want
to legalize it on that basis, it's not a good idea,
but like that would at least be honest.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
But everything, but you know what.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I'm talking about, right, they were saying, oh, people needed
for bull, people needed for glaucoma and for fibromyalgia, and
I'm like, wait, what that's what they need to need.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
For Yeah, total lie.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
The condition that we cures is called not being high,
and it's very effective at curing that. Everything else is
pretty much nonsense.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
So no, but but we have a big problem.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
And you can go back and look twenty five years ago,
you know, even a bit longer, and the US like
are are, yes, we've prescribed a lot of opioids, but
we but you know, we were sort of on the
same chart as the rest of the world. And then
you know Perdue Pharma, right, But it wasn't just Perdue Pharma.
Perdue Pharma and Medicare did something called the fifth vital
(16:18):
sign where they basically encourage doctors to treat pain as literally,
I'm not joking. The other vital signs are like your
breathing rate and your heart rate.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I'm gonna guess, yeah, pain was I'm gonna guess you've
read this book. If you haven't, this needs to be
the next thing that you Uh. Sam Kenone's Dreamland where
he goes, okay, yeah, I figured you'd be all over this.
It is an amazing book. He's an LA Times reporter.
It's a great book.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I don't care.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I don't know what his politics are. The politics don't
come through in the book. Just a lot of really
interesting information. And when he goes into the basis for
what you said, the fifth sign is pain, and everyone
has to like, how much pain are you in right now?
It's like, I'm fine, Like what am I? But to
create that and then also the it's not addictive with
oxy cotton.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
That was a great and we are still faking.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Which is clearly it's just to be clear, it's a huge, huge,
huge lie everybody obviously, but that was what they said.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
That was what they said.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
And by way, another interesting thing about oxy coton is
that it's not a new drug. By the way, Fentanyl's
not new either. Fentol was invented in nineteen fifty nine.
So these drugs have been around. It's just that we
have managed this crisis so badly and on the and
you know, there's this left libertarian nexus that you see
on cannabis, but you see with opioids and other drugs
(17:30):
abuse too, where where it's well, we can't we can't
tell people know, and then if something goes wrong on
the left it's like, well, we have to give people
endless rehab.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
We can never send them to jail.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
It's just got We've just got to treat them as
these poor, you know, patients. And it is a big
it's all a big lie, and it's led to over
a million deaths.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
I said this on radio recently because we're talking about
about the border Alexes and people talk about what a
problem fentanyl is. That now I'm actually forgetting. But I
think as recently as two thousand and four, all overdotes
deaths in America, it was like fifteen thousand or twenty
thousand or something. That's a tiny fraction of what it
(18:14):
is now.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
That's correct. And in nineteen eighty it was six thousand, okay.
And in nineteen sixty You're not gonna believe this, but
it's true. In nineteen sixty, including suicides not just accidental
over us, it was fewer than two thousands.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
The idea that the United States has, you know, has
this culture of drug use that you can't fix. That
you just have to manage, and you have to do
all this harm reduction and let people use until they
die because we're just this incredibly screwed up country. The
historical record actually suggests the opposite.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Well, this is this is a very good book that
you're going to write. So you need to write this
book because this is an important book. And I know
a guy with a very big radio show that now
is on five hundred and fifty five stations. I think
where you should come and talk about the book when
you write it. So that's a good thing for you
to do.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
All right.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Well, that's so that's what I'm up to.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
And you know, I am working hard and somebody I
won't name who told me that I should get a
podcast on the go.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Also, yes, you should at least do a weekly to
go with your sub stack. Okay, that's orders from somebody
who's a smart guy who likes parentson's work. So you
should at least do a weekly podcast to add into
your stuff. All your subscribers, including me, are going to
be very pleased with that. Can I ask you an
Israel question? Which is funny to me because you're you're
a little heterodox, like I don't necessarily know where you're
(19:31):
going to go on. You know, I feel like you
call balls and strikes with Trump. I have no idea
what you're gonna say.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
I don't think I've ever talked about Israel Hamas stuff.
Can we do one of those questions in a second
after I get to sure? Okay, all right, I'm this
is gonna be interesting to me. Alex could go while
Alex all of a sudden could throw a cafe on.
He could go wild. I have no idea what's going
on here, let's see. But our sponsor here is why
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What do you make of where things stand right now?
I mean I mentioned it just there, Alex, but Israel's
bombing again, going into Gaza. They can't get the hostages back.
(20:40):
Where's where's your mind on all this?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
So putting aside, you know what Trump is doing in
the US response, and because that I think actually is
a much more complicated question. I think, look, look where
Israel was on October eighth, and look where they are now.
They have destroyed you know, has Belah. They you know
that they have essentially made it impossible for the Iranians
(21:05):
to get to them through Syria. They have shown the
Iranians that they can attack the rany and air defenses
whenever they want, and they have and they have leveled
Gaza right now, They've done a lot of damage to
the civilian population. But the Gaza, you know, Hamas started
the war, right and so you don't really get to say, uh,
if you start the war that you know, now it's over,
(21:27):
like the other side gets there. You know, well one
side or the other gets to say that it's over.
But it's sort of too bad for you that you
started this war. So I don't have a problem. And
it's pretty clear. It was clear to me in December
that the ceasefire had come about because Israel had won.
Right there, Nobody the the Hamas Bet was We're going
(21:47):
to do this incredible thing on October seventh. We're going
to punch the Israelis in the nose. We're going to
do all this damage. We're going to show that that
you know that the border security that they had was
bs and then the.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Can I jump in on that isn't that just It
wasn't that just a I mean, put aside the monstrousness
of it and the just the horrific nature of the attack,
which is a given, yes, but is it as it just?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
To me?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
It strikes me as strategically a huge miscalculation from them,
as from them as well.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
It turned out for me, a huge miscalculation.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
I don't think they knew that because because one of
the things about it is they didn't really tell Iran
I think in detail or Hesbel Law in detail.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
They sort of thought, we're going to do this.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
And the Arab world is going to come to our aid,
and you know, and the Persians and Hesbel are going
to come to our aid this year, going to come
to our aid. It's gonna be a great day for
everybody who hates Jews. And it turned out that none
of those people actually like Jamas, and so they let
Hamas fight and get destroyed. And then the Israelis did this,
you know, incredible, really one of the great intelligence operations.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Of all I was going to say that the Law
and I know a lot of intel operations, you know,
historically and from the time when I worked there with
they pulled off with the pagers and the beepers is
maybe the most impressive intel operation I've ever heard of.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
And by the way, it's rare that you can have
an intel operation that makes a difference strategically right now,
just tactically, but that was actually a strategically It's like
radar in World War Two. It actually changed the course
of what was happening in Lebanon. So so the Israelis won, right,
and then they made, uh, you know, sort of a
pretty favorable cease fire with Hamas, and Hamas I think
(23:28):
has realized that there's gonna be no Hamas left if
they hand over all the hostages, so they don't want to.
So these Raelies are just going to go in and
beat them up some more. And maybe the problem, I
guess for the Israelis is there really is no other
governing force in Gaza. So what you really do with
Gaza nobody knows, right, And I mean, the Trump Gaza
(23:49):
thing was insane, but it was. It was sort of
Trump's response to the problem of Gaza, which has no solution.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Well, I was going to say, I've told people that
it's the Trump thing. Sounds a little bit outlandish until
you think about the more outlandis outlandish option is keep
Hamas in charge, let them rebuild with international money and
just go back, you know, just go back to what
we had. I mean, I actually think that's crazier than
trying to build Trump Tower Gaza or whatever it was
I was talking about.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I mean, that's right.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
I mean, so, so these reelies may feel like, hey,
we're just gonna do this again, and we're gonna, you know,
we're gonna either kill every you know, everybody with an
ak who's over twelve in Gaza, or we're gonna, you know,
make it so miserable that either you know that there's
some sane people in Hamas or there's some sane people
(24:38):
outside Hamas who say, we just can't live like this anymore.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
I don't know what.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Their calculation is, but I do know this. They are
now in a position of strength and they're gonna do
what they want.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, and they should. This is what I keep telling people.
You know, elections have consequences. Starting wars have consequences too.
This is what this is reality. This has been true
of all for all of human history, and Gaza started
this war. So you know there's that thing about mess
around and find out. That's what's going on right now
Alex Perence and everybody. He's gonna be starting a podcast soon.
He announced it on this show, So now we're gonna
we're gonna keep him him to it at least once
(25:11):
a week Alex and uh check out Unreported Truth. Subscribe
to it on substack. Thanks for making the time and
always great to chat with you.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Fuck, I'm always a pleasure. And yeah, I'll be in.
We'll be competitors soon, but I hope that's great.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Hey, I'll come on the Bearonson Show. I love no one.
Everyone always just expects me to host. I can guest.
I like guesting, you know what I mean. Like everyone's
just I've been I've been hosting for fifteen years. I'm like,
I'll show up and guest with people.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
So you let me know.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
You're you're a very good host, because I think what
I'll have to learn it when I host is that
you can't overtalk the guests.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
And you're very good at you know you, thank you question.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I want the guest. I want the guest to shine.
I like to throw that pitch right down the middle
and let them swing. So good to see you, my friend,
thanks again, thank you sir,
You're listening to the Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure
you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or
wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, Alex Berenson back
with us. Now you all know him, the guy who
is right about all the COVID stuff when it was
hard to be right. And we're going to talk about
some of that and also big pharma and other interesting
(00:31):
things going on in the world today. He has unreported
truths on subseack, which you should subscribe to. I am
a subscriber. Definitely go check that. Alex, let's start with this.
What are your thoughts as you're reading? And everyone who's
a I think pretty much a subscriber here on the
podcast remembers you, remembers your work, remembers you going on
Tucker Show, remembers you going on Clay and Buck talking
about the COVID stuff and all the heat you were getting.
(00:54):
The New York Times puts out a big piece now
we were misled on the COVID origins, Like it's been
five years. Really, now, what do you make of that?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Well, I mean I don't know what's more infuriating the
fact that like five years in and they're still pretending
there's a debate or the fact that you know, the
person who wrote this she yeah, she attacks Fauci. Great,
she says, you know, Christian Anderson is full of it. Great,
we know that. What is she not mentioned in the
New York Times. She's not mentioned that The New York
(01:27):
Times was pushing this nonsense. Not just in twenty twenty, when, okay,
you could say, well, you know, the scientific community did
at least was being steered by Fauci, but in twenty
twenty one, in twenty twenty two, in twenty twenty three,
long after there was tons of independent evidence, and frankly,
(01:48):
after twenty twenty one, we knew about the cover up too,
because of the good work that some independent journalists have
done and some foia. There was tons of evidence, and
yet the New York Times was still relying on Christian Anderson,
who is this, you know, immunologist in San Diego, on
a few other people who clearly had financial skin in
the game, who clearly were talking their book. And fine, okay,
(02:12):
you want to attack those people, great, but don't pretend
it's not. As I wrote in my sub sect yesterday,
what the smizzer said is not we were misled. It's
we and the science has misled you. And so yeah,
it's infuriating.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I sit here and I just think that there has
to be a bigger, bigger reckoning than what we've seen
so far on the issue. I know, I know, it
has been five years. I'm a little bit like the
guy who refuses to give up give up the fight here.
I mean, I think a lot of people on the
right have moved on with this. I still maybe because
(02:50):
I moved to Florida and left New York, which I
thought would never never happen. I never thought I would
leave New York City. But I'm not over it. I'm
not okay with it. And then we have Cuomo. Cuomo
wants to be not just the governor, not just the
mayor of New York City, after having been a governor
who had to resign for giving too many grabs and
(03:10):
smooches to his ladies on staff. But he, I think
clearly wants to use it as a platform to run
for president. And he's been getting a little bit of
people have been pushing a little bit on, Hey, remember
what you did during during COVID does no one in
New York Cara, remember Cuomo Chips and all the madness
with this guy.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
No, I think they do.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
The problem is that, you know, there's not a lot
of great choices for New York City mayor right now,
I mean, from Mark Adams on down. I haven't looked
at the poles. I don't even know if there's been poles.
So I don't know if Clomo can win.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Can I just tell you? Because he is by far
number one in the polls, I think he doubles the
next closest person support and I think he just announced
officially or he's about to announce officially.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
So I mean that, you know, I will say that
Anthony Weener for a time had and it was sort
of a similar thing. After he got bounced from Congress.
He was running and it looked like he had a chance,
and then suddenly he didn't have a chance.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Now Cuomo's you know, it's a situation.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Uh but but we'll see what happens when you know,
when people are actually kind of reminded by the way.
One of the many terrible things of the Biden era,
the Biden and Kamala era, is it has convinced every
fourth rate Democratic politician that they can be presidents, right
because if those two, you know, one of them was president,
(04:33):
one of them, you know, was the Democratic nominee.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So you have you have Tim.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Walls running around, you have Cuomo, you know, the disgraced
governor positioning himself.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
You have having news some doing.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Whatever he can to pretend that he wasn't governor of
California in the last eight years or whatever it was.
It's really, uh, you know, it's really the seven dwarves
are out in force right now. And you know, it's
interesting you say that there hasn't been a reckoning, and
they're clearly hasn't. There hasn't been a political or legal reckoning.
And it's also interesting to me Donald trumpet. You know, look,
(05:08):
he clearly there's a lot of scores he wants to settle.
He does not seem very interested in reopening COVID, and
you know, I don't know why that is. I haven't
talked to people in the administration about why that is.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
And maybe it's a question worth asking.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Maybe he just has so many other sort of things
that are more personal to him that he wants to
settle first, or maybe he doesn't he doesn't care particularly.
I do think that there's increasingly a cultural reckoning. And
you know, I I tweeted about or I posted about
this today that you know, the New York Times there
was there's a Democratic strategist who it seems like a
(05:45):
pretty honest guy talking about how far to the right
young people, mostly men, but some women too, have moved
in the last four years. And to me, that is
clearly COVID driven, you know, because because look, if you're
twenty three, you're not that worried about inflation, okay you are.
You are worried about what you saw five years ago,
(06:05):
when it became pretty clear to you that the medical
establishment and all these people who were on TV didn't
really have your interest at heart at all, and there
could be this medical authoritarian state. And I think that
that has moved young people significantly to the right.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
So I think we're I.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Think, can we can we dig into that? Because that
was actually I saw your tweet on that, and that
was why I was like, you know, I got to
talk to Alex about this today. So gen Z moves
to the right because of the medical authoritarian madness. That's
a that I think that the data certainly shows that,
and we can there's a number of factors. The assault
on masculinity, certainly for men, which is a very real,
(06:41):
very real thing. Uh, that they can't come up with
words to make being a man seem bad and make
us all try to use those words and then say
what assault on masculinely like like we're we're aware of this.
It's like when Gavin Newsom says no one on his
staff said latin X, and then there's all this stuff
that comes out about him and others on his staff
saying latin X. You know, they're just trying to blatantly
rewrite history. But there there was it. There was a
(07:05):
point at which society decided, and it was really the
you know, the expert cudentialed class in the medical but
really just in the sort of in general that if
it meant a one percent, not even one percent, if
it meant to point zero zero one percent in hospitalizations
for the elderly, no high school graduations, no sports, no
(07:28):
socializing with your friends for years, for years, for years.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
It was crazy.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
And you know, again like I don't I don't feel
like I was any genius to say this was crazy,
and you know, and to count out to the teachers'
unions and say we're not going to reopen schools.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Oh, we are going to reopen schools.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
They just have to be properly ventilated, which is going
to take twenty years to do. I mean, it was
all insanity, and you know when and I got to go.
I can go back and find the posts or find
the subject.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
But when did it be okay? When did it become
okay for society to sacrifice the young for the old?
It's the absolute opposite of what we should be doing.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
And you know, I have three kids, but like, did
you really need to have kids to recognize what a
terrible idea that was?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:20):
No, I didn't have kids yet. I got one on
the way right now, be here in a few weeks,
thank you. Very exciting. But yeah, I remember sitting in
my tiny one bedroom in New York City as the
whole place went completely insane, and I just walking around like,
what what has happened to all of you people? And
can I give you something?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
That?
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Really another reason why Benson came to mind here, I
was have you seen this show? It's on It's on Max,
which used to be HBO The Pit. Are you familiar
with this?
Speaker 2 (08:48):
This shows?
Speaker 1 (08:49):
It's funny Noah Wiley, who was on the original er,
The Michael Crichton Er from the nineties, which was a
very celebrated and popular show. Then he's now the lead
doctor in the It's basically e R in Pittsburgh. I
forget what the original EAR was, but it's the same
thing and just an emergency room drama. It's actually pretty
well done. You might like it. I mean, the medical
stuff is interesting. It seems, at least to my civilian
(09:13):
non doctor I pretty realistic for what it is. I mean,
certainly the super long waits in the er, you know,
in the waiting room, and like the mess. You know,
they don't walk away from that stuff. But there's a
whole scene where this guy gets so it's clearly supposed
to be a Trump supporter too. Who doesn't want someone
who doesn't want to be told to wear a mask?
And he's like, well, you know, when we're doing our
surgery on you, like experts who save lives recognize that
(09:36):
it reduces infection to wear a mask. And I mean,
I wanted my wife was there. I'm not somebody who
talked to her. I was just furious they're still doing
this thing now, aren't they they're still gonna do those. Yeah,
but masks, but masks really will save us, like they haven't.
The medical establishment hasn't entirely abandoned this.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
No, and even you know, so the Times they wrote
this piece on Sunday, and you know, two thirds of
the way down there was the the line which I
did not say publicly, but this is a podcast, so
it's still publicized. I probably shouldn't say, but it was
essentially the officer she was asked for it line where
it's like, well, there were good reasons for them to
lie about all this stuff, including essentially the fact that
(10:16):
Trump was calling it the woo flu. You know, even
though that that wasn't that wasn't exactly how it was phrased,
but it was like it was like they had reasons
to want to, you know, buffer trust in the scientific
establishment by lying about where the where it came from.
It's like, just admit it was totally wrong and you
shouldn't have done it. And let's I mean, I'm not
gonna say let's move on, but let's start with that.
(10:39):
And let's start with we're not going to pretend that
lockdown's work. We're not going to pretend that the MR
and as you know, were a particularly big scientific advance,
like we can. You can argue with me if you
want about whether you know whether or not they worked
at all or for how long they were.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
We can have a reasonable discussion about that.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
But every time I read how they saved millions of
lives and you know we're this movement, It's like, Okay,
then why is maderna stock.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Down ninety three percent from its high? Right?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
The people who actually put money in the game know
that this. But this was a complete hype job and
didn't do very much.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
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ninety eight, ninety eight ninety eight. All Right, Alex, the
the new administration on the health stuff, what's what is
the most important thing or things that you think could
be looked at for reform, for transparency? There was a lot,
I know, I know, I know. Particularly it's like right
(12:18):
wing moms who are more excited about RFK junior at
AHHS than really any like any other senior position other
than maybe Trump himself, right, And I always want to
have some of them what what should be done? What
do they want him to do? What do you want
him to do?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Well, you know one thing that if they can find a.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Way to do this within the balance of the First Amendment,
they can reduce the amount of pharmaceutical.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Advertising on television. That would unquestionably be a good thing.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
And again, like maybe you force them to put in
so many disclaimers that it becomes economically impossible. Maybe you
say that the ads have to you know, look a
certain way so that they're not so attractive. But I
do think that clearly, you know, pharmaceutical advertising is a
bad thing generally, right it It encourages over prescriptions. And
(13:14):
in the US, we use a lot of drugs, we
use all you know, in every category, we use lots
and lots of drugs and probably over prescribe. And that's
probably led, you know, because physicians come under pressure from
you know, from people who've seen these ads, and and
it's easier at some point just to agree to get
them out of your office than to and to explain
(13:34):
to them, hey, maybe you should maybe you should exercise
some more.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Or whatever the you know, whatever the solution might be.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
So I think I think reducing pharmaceutical advertising would be
a good thing.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Now, again, there's a First Amendment issue there that they're
going to have to figure out.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
My personal uh uh bugaboo these days, and something that
I've written about recently for Unreported Truths for my sub
second and I'm thinking very very seriously about writing a
book about is about opioids, and generally sort of this
move towards you know, what I call drugs of abuse,
(14:07):
addictive drugs whether and that can be that can be
you know, that can be opioids, that can be amphetamines,
that can be sort of the state level way that
we've legalized cannabis, the United States has a terrible problem
with addiction and overdose.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
And can I tell you.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
That one of the things that I know you've been
for a long time somebody who's just very opposed to weed.
And there are very few areas in public policy life
where I think I have been kind of bamboozled. You know,
maybe it's a little self congratulatory, but I tend to
be good at smelling the bs uh. And I believed
the oh legalized doing criminal not about anything except for weed.
(14:48):
I mean, I was never like, oh, yeah, heroin, just
like let people inject. I mean, you know, because there's
different right there. There's a difference between you know, the
difference between being bitten by a chihuahua and being bitten
by a lion. Like there's a difference between weed and fentanyl, clearly,
but even with weed, I you know, and I think
maybe it's part of my generation too, and all the
libertarians I knew were like, come on, man, like everyone's
(15:09):
serving all this time in prison for weed, but that
it was not that bad for you and really important
medicinally years ago. It's been about a decade, but years ago,
I believed that. And now when I see this stuff,
I'm like, that is just bull.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It is crap. Yes, it is crap.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
It is It is just it is just a very
powerful and toxican and and you know, if you want
to legalize it on that basis, it's not a good idea,
but like that would at least be honest.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
But everything, but you know what.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I'm talking about, right, they were saying, oh, people needed
for bull, people needed for glaucoma and for fibromyalgia, and
I'm like, wait, what that's what they need to need.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
For Yeah, total lie.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
The condition that we cures is called not being high,
and it's very effective at curing that. Everything else is
pretty much nonsense.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
So no, but but we have a big problem.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
And you can go back and look twenty five years ago,
you know, even a bit longer, and the US like
are are, yes, we've prescribed a lot of opioids, but
we but you know, we were sort of on the
same chart as the rest of the world. And then
you know Perdue Pharma, right, But it wasn't just Perdue Pharma.
Perdue Pharma and Medicare did something called the fifth vital
(16:18):
sign where they basically encourage doctors to treat pain as literally,
I'm not joking. The other vital signs are like your
breathing rate and your heart rate.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I'm gonna guess, yeah, pain was I'm gonna guess you've
read this book. If you haven't, this needs to be
the next thing that you Uh. Sam Kenone's Dreamland where
he goes, okay, yeah, I figured you'd be all over this.
It is an amazing book. He's an LA Times reporter.
It's a great book.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I don't care.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I don't know what his politics are. The politics don't
come through in the book. Just a lot of really
interesting information. And when he goes into the basis for
what you said, the fifth sign is pain, and everyone
has to like, how much pain are you in right now?
It's like, I'm fine, Like what am I? But to
create that and then also the it's not addictive with
oxy cotton.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
That was a great and we are still faking.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Which is clearly it's just to be clear, it's a huge, huge,
huge lie everybody obviously, but that was what they said.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
That was what they said.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
And by way, another interesting thing about oxy coton is
that it's not a new drug. By the way, Fentanyl's
not new either. Fentol was invented in nineteen fifty nine.
So these drugs have been around. It's just that we
have managed this crisis so badly and on the and
you know, there's this left libertarian nexus that you see
on cannabis, but you see with opioids and other drugs
(17:30):
abuse too, where where it's well, we can't we can't
tell people know, and then if something goes wrong on
the left it's like, well, we have to give people
endless rehab.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
We can never send them to jail.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
It's just got We've just got to treat them as
these poor, you know, patients. And it is a big
it's all a big lie, and it's led to over
a million deaths.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
I said this on radio recently because we're talking about
about the border Alexes and people talk about what a
problem fentanyl is. That now I'm actually forgetting. But I
think as recently as two thousand and four, all overdotes
deaths in America, it was like fifteen thousand or twenty
thousand or something. That's a tiny fraction of what it
(18:14):
is now.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
That's correct. And in nineteen eighty it was six thousand, okay.
And in nineteen sixty You're not gonna believe this, but
it's true. In nineteen sixty, including suicides not just accidental
over us, it was fewer than two thousands.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
The idea that the United States has, you know, has
this culture of drug use that you can't fix. That
you just have to manage, and you have to do
all this harm reduction and let people use until they
die because we're just this incredibly screwed up country. The
historical record actually suggests the opposite.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Well, this is this is a very good book that
you're going to write. So you need to write this
book because this is an important book. And I know
a guy with a very big radio show that now
is on five hundred and fifty five stations. I think
where you should come and talk about the book when
you write it. So that's a good thing for you
to do.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
All right.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Well, that's so that's what I'm up to.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
And you know, I am working hard and somebody I
won't name who told me that I should get a
podcast on the go.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Also, yes, you should at least do a weekly to
go with your sub stack. Okay, that's orders from somebody
who's a smart guy who likes parentson's work. So you
should at least do a weekly podcast to add into
your stuff. All your subscribers, including me, are going to
be very pleased with that. Can I ask you an
Israel question? Which is funny to me because you're you're
a little heterodox, like I don't necessarily know where you're
(19:31):
going to go on. You know, I feel like you
call balls and strikes with Trump. I have no idea
what you're gonna say.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
I don't think I've ever talked about Israel Hamas stuff.
Can we do one of those questions in a second
after I get to sure? Okay, all right, I'm this
is gonna be interesting to me. Alex could go while
Alex all of a sudden could throw a cafe on.
He could go wild. I have no idea what's going
on here, let's see. But our sponsor here is why
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(19:58):
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What do you make of where things stand right now?
I mean I mentioned it just there, Alex, but Israel's
bombing again, going into Gaza. They can't get the hostages back.
(20:40):
Where's where's your mind on all this?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
So putting aside, you know what Trump is doing in
the US response, and because that I think actually is
a much more complicated question. I think, look, look where
Israel was on October eighth, and look where they are now.
They have destroyed you know, has Belah. They you know
that they have essentially made it impossible for the Iranians
(21:05):
to get to them through Syria. They have shown the
Iranians that they can attack the rany and air defenses
whenever they want, and they have and they have leveled
Gaza right now, They've done a lot of damage to
the civilian population. But the Gaza, you know, Hamas started
the war, right and so you don't really get to say, uh,
if you start the war that you know, now it's over,
(21:27):
like the other side gets there. You know, well one
side or the other gets to say that it's over.
But it's sort of too bad for you that you
started this war. So I don't have a problem. And
it's pretty clear. It was clear to me in December
that the ceasefire had come about because Israel had won.
Right there, Nobody the the Hamas Bet was We're going
(21:47):
to do this incredible thing on October seventh. We're going
to punch the Israelis in the nose. We're going to
do all this damage. We're going to show that that
you know that the border security that they had was
bs and then the.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Can I jump in on that isn't that just It
wasn't that just a I mean, put aside the monstrousness
of it and the just the horrific nature of the attack,
which is a given, yes, but is it as it just?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
To me?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
It strikes me as strategically a huge miscalculation from them,
as from them as well.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
It turned out for me, a huge miscalculation.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
I don't think they knew that because because one of
the things about it is they didn't really tell Iran
I think in detail or Hesbel Law in detail.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
They sort of thought, we're going to do this.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
And the Arab world is going to come to our aid,
and you know, and the Persians and Hesbel are going
to come to our aid this year, going to come
to our aid. It's gonna be a great day for
everybody who hates Jews. And it turned out that none
of those people actually like Jamas, and so they let
Hamas fight and get destroyed. And then the Israelis did this,
you know, incredible, really one of the great intelligence operations.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Of all I was going to say that the Law
and I know a lot of intel operations, you know,
historically and from the time when I worked there with
they pulled off with the pagers and the beepers is
maybe the most impressive intel operation I've ever heard of.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
And by the way, it's rare that you can have
an intel operation that makes a difference strategically right now,
just tactically, but that was actually a strategically It's like
radar in World War Two. It actually changed the course
of what was happening in Lebanon. So so the Israelis won, right,
and then they made, uh, you know, sort of a
pretty favorable cease fire with Hamas, and Hamas I think
(23:28):
has realized that there's gonna be no Hamas left if
they hand over all the hostages, so they don't want to.
So these Raelies are just going to go in and
beat them up some more. And maybe the problem, I
guess for the Israelis is there really is no other
governing force in Gaza. So what you really do with
Gaza nobody knows, right, And I mean, the Trump Gaza
(23:49):
thing was insane, but it was. It was sort of
Trump's response to the problem of Gaza, which has no solution.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Well, I was going to say, I've told people that
it's the Trump thing. Sounds a little bit outlandish until
you think about the more outlandis outlandish option is keep
Hamas in charge, let them rebuild with international money and
just go back, you know, just go back to what
we had. I mean, I actually think that's crazier than
trying to build Trump Tower Gaza or whatever it was
I was talking about.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I mean, that's right.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
I mean, so, so these reelies may feel like, hey,
we're just gonna do this again, and we're gonna, you know,
we're gonna either kill every you know, everybody with an
ak who's over twelve in Gaza, or we're gonna, you know,
make it so miserable that either you know that there's
some sane people in Hamas or there's some sane people
(24:38):
outside Hamas who say, we just can't live like this anymore.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
I don't know what.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Their calculation is, but I do know this. They are
now in a position of strength and they're gonna do
what they want.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, and they should. This is what I keep telling people.
You know, elections have consequences. Starting wars have consequences too.
This is what this is reality. This has been true
of all for all of human history, and Gaza started
this war. So you know there's that thing about mess
around and find out. That's what's going on right now
Alex Perence and everybody. He's gonna be starting a podcast soon.
He announced it on this show, So now we're gonna
we're gonna keep him him to it at least once
(25:11):
a week Alex and uh check out Unreported Truth. Subscribe
to it on substack. Thanks for making the time and
always great to chat with you.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Fuck, I'm always a pleasure. And yeah, I'll be in.
We'll be competitors soon, but I hope that's great.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Hey, I'll come on the Bearonson Show. I love no one.
Everyone always just expects me to host. I can guest.
I like guesting, you know what I mean. Like everyone's
just I've been I've been hosting for fifteen years. I'm like,
I'll show up and guest with people.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
So you let me know.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
You're you're a very good host, because I think what
I'll have to learn it when I host is that
you can't overtalk the guests.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
And you're very good at you know you, thank you question.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I want the guest. I want the guest to shine.
I like to throw that pitch right down the middle
and let them swing. So good to see you, my friend,
thanks again, thank you sir,
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