April 9, 2025 • 36 mins
In hour 2 of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton show, the hosts engage in a detailed discussion with renowned economist Dr. Art Laffer. They explore the complexities of the current trade wars, focusing on the strategic use of tariffs by the Trump administration. Dr. Laffer emphasizes the importance of negotiating free trade deals and explains how the U.S. aims to reduce protectionist barriers imposed by other countries. He argues that trade deficits can be beneficial, as they attract foreign investment into the U.S. economy.
The conversation delves into the economic relationship between the U.S. and China, with Dr. Laffer advocating for the inclusion of China in free trade agreements despite its current protectionist policies. He highlights the potential long-term benefits of integrating China into the global free trade system. The discussion also touches on the economic policies of various U.S. states, with Dr. Laffer criticizing high-tax states for driving away manufacturing jobs and praising low-tax states like Tennessee for their economic success.
Additionally, the hosts address the broader implications of the trade wars, including the impact on the stock market and the strategic positioning of the U.S. in global trade negotiations. They discuss the recent announcement by President Trump to pause tariffs on most countries while increasing tariffs on China, interpreting this move as a strategic effort to isolate China and strengthen the U.S. negotiating position.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Second hour of Clay and Buck kicks off. Now there's
a op ed in the Wall Street Journal, a win
win exit strategy for Trump on tariffs, written by Art
Laugher and Steven Moore. Doctor Art Laugher joins us. Now
renowned economist guy came up with that whole Laugher curve thing.
(00:21):
Brilliant man, he is with us, Thanks for being here,
or appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
My pleasure, my pleasure. It's really fun being with you guys.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
By the way, so you're an upbeat You're You're a
brilliant guy and an upbeat guy, and we need that
today given what we're what we're seeing, what we're seeing
out there. You're not a catastropas. You're not a doom
and gloom guy. Let's just start with this. When people
are telling you, I am concerned about what's happening right
now in the markets, what do you say to them?
(00:51):
What's your overall feeling. I want to get into the
win win strategy from your piece, But first off, an
opportunity to tell everybody don't panic.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Well, yeah, I'm paying when they tell me that. I
screaming and hollering him down the floor, crying at the
end of the world. No, No, you know, Donald Trump
is an extraordinarily competent president. In my view, he was
the single best first term president. Now I'm just talking
about economics. Now, just economics, the single best first term
president in US history. If you look at the Tax
(01:20):
Cuts and Jobs Act was wonderful. If you look at
Operation Warp speed, unbelievable energy independency, roll back of the
Chevron decision, you know, all of these things there. I mean,
it was just unbelievable what he did in his first term.
And he is in his second term now, and you know,
he's competent, He's got all the skills, He's very knowledgeable
(01:44):
in the subject. And I believe this is me. I
believe that he is using the threats of tariffs and
the actual imposition of tariffs to get these other countries
to come and negotiate free treat trade deals with us.
They are far more protectionists than we are. We are
as a country, US probably the lowest tariff the lowest
(02:06):
protectionist country of major country in the world. There may
be something like sark or Jersey or Guernsey, or something
like Monaco or something like that, but of the big country,
we by far the least protectionists, And how do you
get these other countries that come to the table and
negotiate getting rid of their tariffs, and you know, you've
got to threaten them with access to the US market.
And so that's what he's doing. I believe now you're
(02:27):
going to talk to Trump, and you got to talk
to him because he knows far better what he's doing
than I do. And I'm no source of special knowledge,
but knowing him and knowing all the trade stuff I do,
I cannot believe that he would do anything that would
really hurt America in the long run by having a
trade war.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Okay, so let's dive into this, doctor Laugher, Art Laugher.
We appreciate you coming on. Every time we come on
and talk economics with you. The audience loves it because
you're way smarter about this stuff than we are. Big
picture here, it seems to me, and I read your
Wall Street Journal editorial. It's posted at Clayanbuck dot com.
Encourage people to go check that out. It seems to
me that Trump is talking about two different things in
(03:07):
many ways as it pertains to a trade war one
and I think Buck and I are in agreement with
you to the extent that we can eliminate as many
tariffs as possible on free trading countries. That's a great
thing because it allows even competition, it allows even movement
of goods with less cost. But China is cheating on
(03:27):
the global stage and to a large extent. Aren't there
kind of two different goals? Because if we eliminated all
tariffs with China, wouldn't that in some way reward them
even more for their cheating? Do you see this as
you know, let's say the European Union, Australia, Great Britain, China,
(03:49):
I mean, sorry, Japan, South Korea. Those are kind of
fair trade partners in general. And then you've got China
that's in an entirely different universe. Are we really talking
about two different policy perspectives? How would you analyze that
when it comes to trade relationships?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I would say that the two of you are wrong
and China is right in the same category with all
the others cheating. I don't know what the heck cheating means.
If they gave us all their products free of charge,
so we got high quality products at low cost, would
you hate them then and want to bomb them? I
mean when you look at it from a customer standpoint.
When you go to a store, do you sell them?
Please sell me above retail. I want you to charge
(04:27):
me the most you possibly can for this product. No, no,
we'd like to give it to you guys.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
No.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I mean, China is potentially our best trading partner in
the world long term, and I really think that we
need to get trying to into the Free Trade Group.
And if you really think about it for a moment,
do you like your customers and your clients and your
client tell? Of course you do. You know, the one
way of guaranteeing hostilities will occur as not trading with
(04:55):
the country when you're trying to you're a customer, they're
a customer, and it leads to friendships, that leads to
great prosperity, and it leads to eliminating war art.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Can you tell us why do all these so many
of these other countries have and have had long standing tariffs,
and why does China have so many and such aggressive tariffs?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Well, let me tell you why. It is because these
little countries, I say, little Germany, these types of just
teeny tiny little countries. Do you know they talk to
our trade officials and so you know, we've got to
put this on for political reason, blah blah blah blah blah,
and the US ay's go ahead, please, it's okay, do it.
You know, it doesn't really affect us very much. And
over the years this is built up to being a
really travesty. They now have way more partition, every single
(05:42):
one of them. It's not just one one off with
one tariff. It's cacumulated. And now they have all these
For example, I mean, can you imagine they're two hundred
and fifty percent tariffs in Canada against Wisconsin dairy products?
What I mean, how did that come about? I'm sure
it came about with some deal with some president in
some prime minister of Canada. You know, we've got to
(06:02):
do this. I'll lose the election if I don't do it.
And they get this, they get this one off exemption,
and all of this is built up, and now Trump
is trying to get rid of it, and quite correctly. So,
I mean, we need to get rid of their tariffs.
Their quota is their non tariff barriers. They're hurting us
and they're hurting them.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
But so why can't China figure out that it's tariffs
are hurting it.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I think it will. I mean, if you remember, I
mean I was the first American to go to China
in nineteen seventy, in October of nineteen seven, I went
with George Schultzen John Earlick when we did the pre
Kissinger Trap. And but then they had one hundred percent tariffs.
They had no trade with the outside world. They were
called the Hermit Kingdom. And you know, they opened up
their trade. They saw how the trade by lowering their
(06:44):
trade barriers, by entering into trade, it created the greatest
econd growth miracle in modern history. The Chinese growth from
nineteen seventy to let's say five years ago was just
a phenomenal period for China. More people were removed from
poverty than in that are your history of humanity one
hundred and ninety thousand years. So it's it's really I
(07:05):
think China will understand this, and I think China will
in due course enter into a free trade agreement with
the US as well, and it will be wonderful when
that happens.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Okay, so let's go into this China relationship in particular,
because you say you see it as as similar to
the EU and the other countries that I laid out,
What does an ideal relationship from your perspective look like
with China when it comes to trade, Because it is
going to be the case that if we had, for instance,
zero tariffs at all, China is going to be exporting
(07:39):
I think four hundred billion is the number that I
saw something like that. The trade imbalance is seismic. We're
going to be buying more Chinese goods than China is
going to be buying American goods. Is that trade imbalance
in any way an issue from your perspective?
Speaker 5 (07:55):
And how would you rectify it? What is?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
In other words, let's pretend that you aren't Laugher a
magic wand and you got to solve it.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
What would your answer be?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Now, would you mind tell me how much how much
it bothers you? For foreigners wanting to invest in the
US because they think we're the greatest country in the world.
Let's imagine we cut taxes, cut regulations, had stable prices,
you know, no regulating all the correct policies, everyone would
want to invest in the United States. How do foreigners
generate a dollar cash flow to buy US located assets?
(08:28):
There are only two ways they can do that. They've
got to sell more goods to US, and they've got
to buy less goods from US. That's the only way
they can generate that dollar cash flow to invest in
the United States of America. And that's the most wonderful thing.
We built our country from sixteen forty until eighteen seventy
on trade deficits. We imported all of this capital from Europe,
(08:50):
primarily Britain and Holland, and used it with our labor
and with our raw materials, and we became the pre
eminent economic force on planet Earth because of capital investments,
which is a US trade deficit. Trade deficits are great.
I mean, let me ask you, which would you rather
have capital lineup on our borders trying to get into
our country or trying to get out of our country.
(09:13):
You know, if we bring a factory back from Mexico
into the United States and bring all those machines and
all that production equipment by coming across the Mexican US border,
that's a Mexican export and the Mexican trade surplus. It's
a US import and a US trade deficit. It's also
a US capital surplus and a Mexican capital deficit. Trade
(09:33):
deficits are how we bring our capital back to the US,
and I think we should have trade deficits in China
thinks that we're the best country in the world and
they want to invest all their capital in the US.
God bless them.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Okay, So I need I need some help here. Square
in the circle for a second. So if good good good,
If trade trade deficits are good, and all tariffs are
bad and self defeating, what what? And so trade and
balance he's a good thing. We want trade and balance.
Do you like what Trump is doing or are you
trying to tell him to not do any of this?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
No? No, I like I'm the biggest fan. I'm his
biggest fan. I think he's negotiating, and I think he's
negotiating to get them to reduce their tariffs against US,
which are far larger than our tariffs and trade barriers
are against them. And I think he brings them to
the table. What is it, sixty seventy countries are coming
to negotiate? What are they coming to negotiate? We will
(10:28):
cut our tariffs dramatically. Please just allow us access to
your market. And I think that's just the wonderful thing
for Trump to do, and I think he's going to
be very successful at it. It scares the live in
hell how to be By the way, I'm a wuss,
I'm not a negotiaer. I'm not a guy like Trump.
Trump knows how to negotiate and he loves doing it,
and he's really successful at it. But my belief is
(10:49):
that Trump deep down is a free trader all the way,
and I think he just really wants to get them
to come here and lower tariffs on their products by
a lot. And he did this the first term. By
the way, that the Japanese Trade Deal was great for
lowering tariffs, the USMCA was wonderful for lowering tariffs and barriers,
the South Korean deally did, the one he did with Brazil,
(11:11):
the one he did with Columbia, all resulted in better
trade relationships with these countries. And that's what I think
he's trying to do. Now. He can tell you otherwise,
and he may well be not doing this, but I
really have full trust in him that he's doing the
right thing and that it's very comfortable.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
Let me ask you this. A lot of people listening
in the Midwest. JD.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Vance obviously wrote his book Hillbilly Elegy, which I rest seller.
I'm sure you read it, Buck, and I have read it.
What is the answer for people who feel like the
jobs have been hollowed out in the industrial Midwest? For
people listening to us in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio that got
used to having those jobs that were going to pay
(11:55):
so well to produce American goods.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
Is that an issue?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I want you to tell the audience where the two
of you are located.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
I'm in Tennessee.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Okay, I'm in Nationville too. Now why am I in Nashville.
We are the lowest tax state in the nation, and
earning income is a lot more fun with lower taxes,
lower regulations. We have no death tax, we have no
gift tax, we have no unearned cap tax, we have
no income tax. We have one of the lowest property
taxes in the nation. We have the best spending, we
have the best public services. We don't have a manu
(12:26):
half facturing problem in Tennessee. All these auto companies are
coming in here in floods. The problem with manufacturing is Detroit.
It's Michigan, it's Ohio, it's Pennsylvania, it's Wisconsin, it's Illinois.
These places are pits. They are anti production, anti prosperity places,
and they're driving all the business out. It's not China.
(12:49):
It's the governments of these states that have made it
absolutely intolerable. Can you imagine opening up a factory in Detroit,
Michigan today, where property taxes are in some places up
the fifty percent, fifteen percent on that, where the state
income tax, the death tax, the reunion. It's a horrible place.
Our problem is with the states that have the manufacturing,
(13:12):
and they are repelling that manufacturing all moss and that's
the problem. It's not the competition from abroad. And if
you don't hurt me, just look at Tennessee and how
we're doing in Texas and Florida. All of us are
doing well except for those horribly run states.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
All right, doctor Rod Laugher, appreciate your perspective today, sir.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Hey, it's my pleasure in any time. By the way,
it's fun being with you guys, and I love watching
you all the time. You guys are spectacular and I'm
really proud you're in Tennessee.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Thank you. I need to we need to get dinner sometime.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I would anytime you want. Just give me a call
and it's done, and I'll even pay for it if
it's lock as the Mssdonald's.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
All right, I appreciate it, doctor Laffer, Thank you so much.
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Speaker 2 (14:39):
You don't know what.
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You don't know right, but you could. On the Sunday
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Speaker 3 (14:46):
Welcome Back in Clay, Travis bought Sexton show art Lapper
interesting perspective. We'll get into that during the course of
the program. Brilliant economists and what his advice. I think
he's basically speaking to Trump through the Wall Street Journal
article and also through the interview he just did with us.
(15:07):
But Buck is also about to have a baby, which
should help the economy in some way because you're bringing
another child into the American citizenship.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
I'm increasing GDP.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
You just need to have two more and then you
will have increased the population relative to your own life.
And then but you asked, I think, what was I
like on delivery day? This is delivery day in theory
for Buck or it'll be early tomorrow morning, sometime into Thursday. Laura,
(15:41):
my wife, who probably remembers things way better, was listening
and she sent in a talkback. We've had three boys.
I've been there for all of their birth seventeen, fourteen,
and ten. She probably remembers things a little bit better.
I don't even know what she said. She sent this
to producer Ali, here is my wife talking about birth.
Speaker 6 (16:00):
Congratulations Boock and Carrie Clay and I are so excited
for you. Get ready for every decision you make for
the rest of your life to be one hundred times
more complicated than it already is. But I think plays
advice of just don't cause any problems during L and
D in the labor and delivery room is probably the
(16:21):
best advice. You need to just be there for moral
support and otherwise stay out of the way and don't
do anything unless Carrie asks you to. I do remember
Play complaining about the Wi Fi. I think he also
complained about the television channels and he couldn't find the
game he wanted to watch on anywhere. I think we
(16:42):
ended up watching some not important golf tournament like the
American Express Tournament or something that didn't matter. And besides that,
Play was otherwise pretty well behaved without drawing too much
attention to himself, So that really is the best advice.
Just be there for your wife and don't cause any distractions.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
I forgot that the television situation was just indefensible. How
do you not have the sporting event channels in the
delivery suites? The Wi Fi didn't work very well. I
couldn't find the game that I wanted to watch. This
is the most Clay Travis thing I've ever heard. By
the way, wife's about to give birth.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
He's like, I can't watch the I can't watch the
SEC football game right now. This is she did.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
To her credit time at well. Because our first son
was born in between NFC AFC Championship Week and the
Super Bowl. So if I remember correctly, I think he
was born on a Sunday in between those two. But yeah,
there was there was a sporting event that I was
trying to get on and I was like, I mean,
come on, just have a normal cable setup and a
normal WiFi. I don't know what are they thinking, but
(17:53):
that's great Laura's advice.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Thank you, Laura.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I believe we got Julie Kelly coming up now, Buck coming.
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four four eight two four safe. All right, welcome back
(19:02):
into Clay and Buck. We've got some big breaking news.
Julie Kelly about to join us here in a moment,
But first our market maestro here on Clay and Buck.
Clay Travis watching the stock ticker closely. What just happened?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Clay uh Trump has announced a ninety day pause on
all countries for the tariffs other than China. He has
increased the tariff on China to one hundred and twenty
five percent. This is kind of the advice that you
and I were giving if he wanted to focus on China,
(19:33):
which is the real culprit here. How is the stock market?
Some responding, Buck, I hope you guys bought the dip.
The Dow now is up twenty four hundred points, Buck,
that is six and a half percent that it is surging.
The Nasdaq up nearly nine percent. This has all happened
(19:54):
in the last couple of minutes. The S and P
five hundred is up nearly four hundred points, so much
of the selloff associated with the tariff battle has now
vanished just about overnight. We tried to tell you, we said,
(20:16):
buy the dips sometimes, don't even look at stock prices.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
Don't panic.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Unfortunately, I know a lot of people sold at the
bottom and now they're going to be buying back in
as the stock market is surging. But I hope you
held on. But that is the absolute latest right now.
Lots of fluctuation. But again, just to kind of put
it in context, the S and P five hundred is
(20:41):
now basically trading the same place that it was in August,
and and you know it could easily be basically where
it was in September. So anyway, stocks go up and down.
Trump negotiating. Now what we said I think is accurate,
which is this is now just China versus the United States,
(21:05):
and to a large extent, the other countries are now
aligned in favor of free trade.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
And now we'll see what happens with China.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
All right, Buck, we have got Julie Kelly cued up
to talk about many things, but it wanted to give
that updates everybody out there.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yes, Julie Kelly. You all know her from her declassified
sub stack, which you should go subscribe to, and her
great book and her great work. Julie, thanks for being
with us.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Thank you, and Buck, congratulations to you and Carrie. You're
going to have an exciting evening and probably day tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Thank you. I don't know, I don't know if you
heard our friend Jesse's Jesse Kelly said, it's gonna be
a tough twenty four hours for me physically. I need
to hydrate, I need to make sure I get a
lot of get rested. And everyone's freaking out about this,
but it's pretty funny. I'm here for Carrie. For anything
that she needs, and we could not be more excited
about it. So thank you very much, Julie. And all right,
(22:03):
all right now I got to get you on what
is going on here. A few things that come to
mind and involve Julie Kelly and her work. Judge Boseburg,
this guy after the Supreme Court comes in and says,
hold on a second, you can't just venue shop. He
had a hearing scheduled. And where is this guy now?
(22:24):
It feels like he's become the Adam Schiff of resistance judges,
which is not a compliment, you know, claim Buck.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
It's amazing to see the same judges who for four
years insisted a mostly nonviolent protest to a government building
on a Wednesday afternoon represent it an attempt to overthrow
democracy and overturn the results of the twenty twenty election.
Keep in mind, to JEBB. Bosberg routinely in JA six
cases call January sixth an insurrection. That's what you call it,
(22:54):
even for people who are in his core room on
low level misdemeanors like parading in the Capitol. But yet
here he is actually trying to overturn the results of
the twenty twenty four elections sabotage Donald Trump's agenda and
by extension, the seventy two million or so Americans who
voted for him. The Supreme Court is not stopping him.
(23:16):
So even though they just vacated his two temporary restraining
orders banning deportation flights of these illegal Venezuelans covered under
the President's Alien Enemy Zact proclamation from March fifteenth, even
though the Supreme Court vacated those temporary restraining orders, said
that Washington was the improper venue that these illegals should
(23:36):
see habeas petitions where they are in custody, which is Texas.
That's not stopping him. You are exactly right, Buck. So
yesterday he had a hearing scheduled in his courtroom on
a preliminary injunction. This is the next natural step after
a temporary restraining order. This is what the ACLU, who
is representing these legal Venezuelans want, and this would put
(23:58):
a longer ban on these flights even after the Supreme
Court ruling. Jeb Brosberg said in April sixteenth deadline for
the ACLU to come back to him explain why they're
going to continue to pursue this preliminary injunction and why
they believe that Washington d C. Jeb Bosberg's courtroom is
still the appropriate place to seek that relief even though
(24:21):
the Supreme Court said very clearly it doesn't belong in
Washington d C. Furthermore, we could talk a little bit
about this too. He is going forward with his contempt
investigation against the Trump administration and officials who he believes
to fight a separate court order, a verbal order to
return planes on March fifteenth, and we are expecting that
(24:42):
opinion from Jeb Bosberg really any hour, any day, but
sometime this week.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Are you even stunned, Julie, Because I gotta admit I am,
and this is me, being a lawyer. I knew that
Trump resistance two point zero would eventually emerge somewhere. I
crazy me thought it might come from the Democrat Party
or maybe the legacy media. It feels like, by and large,
the Democrat Party is so impotent that they can't even
(25:10):
put counter arguments out. Meanwhile, legacy media is collapsing as
we speak.
Speaker 5 (25:15):
I mean, the business models are shriveling up and dying.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Now, we just got all these federal District court judges
behaving frankly in an unprecedented manner getting slapped down. We
had trio of them slapped down by the Supreme Court.
But I gotta admit I didn't foresee them being as
aggressive as they have been. I knew they would be
aligned in many ways against Trump, but I didn't think
we would see it historically without precedent, attack coming from
(25:42):
the federal district court level against Trump and his administration,
did you, I mean in a place.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
I sort of agree with you. I did not as
bad as these judges in Washington DC are, and of
course they've been covering them for years, both the District
and Palett Court, and seeing how viciously and vengefully and
remorselessly they treated January sixth defendants and the President and
his associates as well, I really did not expect this
level of defiance, this level of sabotage, that is the
(26:14):
word that what these judges are doing uniformally in Washington,
d C. So I guess I would agree with you.
I'm a little surprised at the extent to which they
are going, which of course they did for years against
Donald Trump in the same DC courthouse. Whether it was
special Council Robert Mueller's investigation, and Special Council Jack Smith.
(26:35):
All these proceedings were handled in this DC Federal Courthouse.
But to see them line up like little lemmings, especially
behind job Bossburg who's the chief judge, and deny all
of these lawsuits, side with the plaintiffs and all of
these lawsuits who really have no vested interest in what
(26:57):
the Trump policies are, but going to any extent that
they possibly can, these judges to side with people who
are trying to take down the president's agenda and again
emphasize the will of the American people who put Donald
Trump in the White House to do exactly the disruption
that he is doing. So yeah, and of course defying
(27:19):
the Supreme Court is a whole other level which we
see job Bossberg doing. But these Democrat judges, as you know,
just like Democrat rank and file voters, do not consider
the Supreme Court legitimate. They are not at all excuse me,
I have a little call. They are not at all
chagrin by being smacked down by the highest court.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
We're speaking of Julie Kelly declassifizers at the sub Stack,
and Julie, we need to get her some some crocket
coffee or some tea with honey in it, perhaps even better, Julie,
sorry that you got to call. Appreciate you, you know, pushing
through and U and telling everybody across the country with
I need to know about Judge. By the way, I've
learned how to pronounce his name Bosberg. I guess bas
(28:06):
I was just reading it off the or i'd been
reading it. I hadn't really heard it. I want to
bring your attention to something else too. The I'm sure
you saw this. The acting IRS Commissioner is resigning from
the IRS because the Trump administration has said you need
to share data from your government, data about essentially illegals
(28:30):
that the IRS has information on for enforcement purposes. I
think a lot of people are seeing, Julie that for
the entity that can lock you up because you don't
give enough of your money as an American to them,
and they get to determine after the fact what that
amount is. To then say, hold on a second, what
do you mean you're going to use our information for
(28:54):
federal immigration law purposes? Just goes to show that there
is this whole mentality even within the government that illegal
aliens are a special protected class.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
That's exactly right. It's pretty stunning to see. And this
is the acting director who I think she took over
in February, and all of these deep staters, everyone in
the administrative state, who will go out of their way
to protect they believe that these government agencies belong to them.
They don't believe that these government agencies belong to the
(29:26):
people or certainly should be supervised by the president and
his team. So that's why you see this defiance not
just by the judges, but of course the heads of
these departments and agencies. But of course we are entitled
to this information. I love how transparency and accountability was
such a big cause during Trump's first presidency that went away,
(29:48):
you know, during the second and now all of a sudden,
we can't have transparency and accountability as he's trying to
clean up and reform all of these corrupt agencies. So
I really commend the Trump administration for their focus, especially
on illegal immigration, because as you guys know, that was
one of the top issues that propelled him into office,
(30:10):
and they are not backing down at all. But we
as America, as American citizens, tax payers, are entitled to know,
you know, and we saw this too with the voting
roles and illegals who are on Social Security. This is
a huge scandal with real time implications on our country,
(30:30):
on our national security, on our economy, and certainly on
our elections. So good riddance to the acting IRS Director.
I'm sure there's a lot of other qualified people who
understand the cause who will replace that individual, and we'll
just keep pushing forward. Intel a judge steps in and
(30:50):
stops all of it, which I'm sure is only a
matter of time.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Julie, we appreciate you, keep the fight going and we
will talk to you again.
Speaker 5 (30:59):
Have a good weekend, joy.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Masters, Oh I definitely will. Thanks guys.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
That's Julie Kelly, American Patriots. He's been fantastic with us.
You know, Spring's here and so is the Iconic Masters Tournament.
They have the Part three challenge today, which is super cool.
I know we're on in Augusta. We got a monster
audience there. I bet it's chaotic down in Augusta right
now as we get ready for Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday
(31:26):
action that for many people, Harold's the return of spring
and summer is on the horizon, and so is Major
League Baseball and the NBA Playoffs and the NHL playoffs.
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And politics, but also a little comic relief.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
Clay Travis at buck Sexton.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you
get your podcasts. Welcome back Clay Travis buck Sexton Show,
Major breaking News. We appreciate Art Laugher and Julie Kelly
will react to Art Laugher a little bit in the
third hour. But Buck, you wanted to read again, let
me give you as your stock market reporter. The stock
(33:05):
market as we speak now up over two thousand points,
the Nasdaq soaring, the S and P five hundred soaring
up a massive amount three let's see seven percent, And
basically I was just looking Buck, the stock prices are
now essentially the same place they were in late September.
(33:28):
So for people out there that have wanted to panic,
the media I think has been feeding the panic as well.
If you didn't feel super poor in September with your stocks,
then I would suggest that in April you shouldn't feel
super poor either. They're the exact same price now that
they were in late September. And here is the statement
from the President.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Based on the lack of respect that China has shown
to the world's markets. Trump put this out on truth
Social I am hereby raising the tariff charge to China
by the United States to one hundred and twenty five scent,
effective immediately. At some point, hopefully in the near future,
China will realize that the days of ripping off the
USA and other countries is no longer sustainable or acceptable. Conversely,
(34:11):
and based on the fact that more than seventy five
countries have called the representatives of the United States, including
Departments of Commerce, Treasury, ust R, to negotiate deals, et cetera,
et cetera, et cetera, I have authorized a ninety day
pause and substantially lowered reciprocal tariff during this period of
ten percent, also effective immediately. Thank you for your attention
(34:33):
on this matter. So everybody comes to the negotiation table
ninety days to figure out the future. China in the
in the targets in the site still because they won't
play ball at all. They think they're just going to
do things their way. Clay, I think this is a
very very interesting development. Obviously, the market is reacting right
(34:56):
now very positively to this. Let's get we have a
lot of stuff going vip. Jason wrote this in Clay,
is art for real meaning Art Laugher? Or was he
playing Devil's advocate? I'm now more confused than ever. Clay,
Do you want to give your take on this, because
I think some of you picked up on what clearly
(35:17):
he doesn't agree with everything Trump is doing, but he
loves Trump and thinks he's going to get to a
better side of this, right, Like, how do you think
you know? Art was squaring the circle a little bit
on that one.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Look, we need to talk about this in a third
hour because I do think that what we told you is.
Speaker 5 (35:33):
What has now emerged.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
We said this is really all about China, and that
ultimately now you have seen Trump has squarely put his
target on China. I think what's happened here and we'll
dive into this in a third hour again, stock market soaring,
ninety day pause on all tariffs because other countries are
trying to negotiate, but China is remaining in transigent. I
(35:57):
think what's happening here is Trump's team decided if we
go right out and we directly strike China and take
their tariffs to one hundred and twenty five percent, then
it's going to look outrageous by putting the tariffs on
everybody and then backing it off. Trump now has isolated
(36:22):
China because China has uniquely responded to American tariffs by
raising tariffs on American products. And so now we've got
what really is the central struggle. It's United States against
China global trade war. And now Trump has managed to
put every other country on the United States side, and
(36:45):
he's isolating China as a unique bad actor. In other words,
I think he has trapped China in a tough spot
relative to the rest of the world. We'll talk about
that break down what Art Lapper was saying and more
when we come back
Second hour of Clay and Buck kicks off. Now there's
a op ed in the Wall Street Journal, a win
win exit strategy for Trump on tariffs, written by Art
Laugher and Steven Moore. Doctor Art Laugher joins us. Now
renowned economist guy came up with that whole Laugher curve thing.
(00:21):
Brilliant man, he is with us, Thanks for being here,
or appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
My pleasure, my pleasure. It's really fun being with you guys.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
By the way, so you're an upbeat You're You're a
brilliant guy and an upbeat guy, and we need that
today given what we're what we're seeing, what we're seeing
out there. You're not a catastropas. You're not a doom
and gloom guy. Let's just start with this. When people
are telling you, I am concerned about what's happening right
now in the markets, what do you say to them?
(00:51):
What's your overall feeling. I want to get into the
win win strategy from your piece, But first off, an
opportunity to tell everybody don't panic.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Well, yeah, I'm paying when they tell me that. I
screaming and hollering him down the floor, crying at the
end of the world. No, No, you know, Donald Trump
is an extraordinarily competent president. In my view, he was
the single best first term president. Now I'm just talking
about economics. Now, just economics, the single best first term
president in US history. If you look at the Tax
(01:20):
Cuts and Jobs Act was wonderful. If you look at
Operation Warp speed, unbelievable energy independency, roll back of the
Chevron decision, you know, all of these things there. I mean,
it was just unbelievable what he did in his first term.
And he is in his second term now, and you know,
he's competent, He's got all the skills, He's very knowledgeable
(01:44):
in the subject. And I believe this is me. I
believe that he is using the threats of tariffs and
the actual imposition of tariffs to get these other countries
to come and negotiate free treat trade deals with us.
They are far more protectionists than we are. We are
as a country, US probably the lowest tariff the lowest
(02:06):
protectionist country of major country in the world. There may
be something like sark or Jersey or Guernsey, or something
like Monaco or something like that, but of the big country,
we by far the least protectionists, And how do you
get these other countries that come to the table and
negotiate getting rid of their tariffs, and you know, you've
got to threaten them with access to the US market.
And so that's what he's doing. I believe now you're
(02:27):
going to talk to Trump, and you got to talk
to him because he knows far better what he's doing
than I do. And I'm no source of special knowledge,
but knowing him and knowing all the trade stuff I do,
I cannot believe that he would do anything that would
really hurt America in the long run by having a
trade war.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Okay, so let's dive into this, doctor Laugher, Art Laugher.
We appreciate you coming on. Every time we come on
and talk economics with you. The audience loves it because
you're way smarter about this stuff than we are. Big
picture here, it seems to me, and I read your
Wall Street Journal editorial. It's posted at Clayanbuck dot com.
Encourage people to go check that out. It seems to
me that Trump is talking about two different things in
(03:07):
many ways as it pertains to a trade war one
and I think Buck and I are in agreement with
you to the extent that we can eliminate as many
tariffs as possible on free trading countries. That's a great
thing because it allows even competition, it allows even movement
of goods with less cost. But China is cheating on
(03:27):
the global stage and to a large extent. Aren't there
kind of two different goals? Because if we eliminated all
tariffs with China, wouldn't that in some way reward them
even more for their cheating? Do you see this as
you know, let's say the European Union, Australia, Great Britain, China,
(03:49):
I mean, sorry, Japan, South Korea. Those are kind of
fair trade partners in general. And then you've got China
that's in an entirely different universe. Are we really talking
about two different policy perspectives? How would you analyze that
when it comes to trade relationships?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I would say that the two of you are wrong
and China is right in the same category with all
the others cheating. I don't know what the heck cheating means.
If they gave us all their products free of charge,
so we got high quality products at low cost, would
you hate them then and want to bomb them? I
mean when you look at it from a customer standpoint.
When you go to a store, do you sell them?
Please sell me above retail. I want you to charge
(04:27):
me the most you possibly can for this product. No, no,
we'd like to give it to you guys.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
No.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I mean, China is potentially our best trading partner in
the world long term, and I really think that we
need to get trying to into the Free Trade Group.
And if you really think about it for a moment,
do you like your customers and your clients and your
client tell? Of course you do. You know, the one
way of guaranteeing hostilities will occur as not trading with
(04:55):
the country when you're trying to you're a customer, they're
a customer, and it leads to friendships, that leads to
great prosperity, and it leads to eliminating war art.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Can you tell us why do all these so many
of these other countries have and have had long standing tariffs,
and why does China have so many and such aggressive tariffs?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Well, let me tell you why. It is because these
little countries, I say, little Germany, these types of just
teeny tiny little countries. Do you know they talk to
our trade officials and so you know, we've got to
put this on for political reason, blah blah blah blah blah,
and the US ay's go ahead, please, it's okay, do it.
You know, it doesn't really affect us very much. And
over the years this is built up to being a
really travesty. They now have way more partition, every single
(05:42):
one of them. It's not just one one off with
one tariff. It's cacumulated. And now they have all these
For example, I mean, can you imagine they're two hundred
and fifty percent tariffs in Canada against Wisconsin dairy products?
What I mean, how did that come about? I'm sure
it came about with some deal with some president in
some prime minister of Canada. You know, we've got to
(06:02):
do this. I'll lose the election if I don't do it.
And they get this, they get this one off exemption,
and all of this is built up, and now Trump
is trying to get rid of it, and quite correctly. So,
I mean, we need to get rid of their tariffs.
Their quota is their non tariff barriers. They're hurting us
and they're hurting them.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
But so why can't China figure out that it's tariffs
are hurting it.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I think it will. I mean, if you remember, I
mean I was the first American to go to China
in nineteen seventy, in October of nineteen seven, I went
with George Schultzen John Earlick when we did the pre
Kissinger Trap. And but then they had one hundred percent tariffs.
They had no trade with the outside world. They were
called the Hermit Kingdom. And you know, they opened up
their trade. They saw how the trade by lowering their
(06:44):
trade barriers, by entering into trade, it created the greatest
econd growth miracle in modern history. The Chinese growth from
nineteen seventy to let's say five years ago was just
a phenomenal period for China. More people were removed from
poverty than in that are your history of humanity one
hundred and ninety thousand years. So it's it's really I
(07:05):
think China will understand this, and I think China will
in due course enter into a free trade agreement with
the US as well, and it will be wonderful when
that happens.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Okay, so let's go into this China relationship in particular,
because you say you see it as as similar to
the EU and the other countries that I laid out,
What does an ideal relationship from your perspective look like
with China when it comes to trade, Because it is
going to be the case that if we had, for instance,
zero tariffs at all, China is going to be exporting
(07:39):
I think four hundred billion is the number that I
saw something like that. The trade imbalance is seismic. We're
going to be buying more Chinese goods than China is
going to be buying American goods. Is that trade imbalance
in any way an issue from your perspective?
Speaker 5 (07:55):
And how would you rectify it? What is?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
In other words, let's pretend that you aren't Laugher a
magic wand and you got to solve it.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
What would your answer be?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Now, would you mind tell me how much how much
it bothers you? For foreigners wanting to invest in the
US because they think we're the greatest country in the world.
Let's imagine we cut taxes, cut regulations, had stable prices,
you know, no regulating all the correct policies, everyone would
want to invest in the United States. How do foreigners
generate a dollar cash flow to buy US located assets?
(08:28):
There are only two ways they can do that. They've
got to sell more goods to US, and they've got
to buy less goods from US. That's the only way
they can generate that dollar cash flow to invest in
the United States of America. And that's the most wonderful thing.
We built our country from sixteen forty until eighteen seventy
on trade deficits. We imported all of this capital from Europe,
(08:50):
primarily Britain and Holland, and used it with our labor
and with our raw materials, and we became the pre
eminent economic force on planet Earth because of capital investments,
which is a US trade deficit. Trade deficits are great.
I mean, let me ask you, which would you rather
have capital lineup on our borders trying to get into
our country or trying to get out of our country.
(09:13):
You know, if we bring a factory back from Mexico
into the United States and bring all those machines and
all that production equipment by coming across the Mexican US border,
that's a Mexican export and the Mexican trade surplus. It's
a US import and a US trade deficit. It's also
a US capital surplus and a Mexican capital deficit. Trade
(09:33):
deficits are how we bring our capital back to the US,
and I think we should have trade deficits in China
thinks that we're the best country in the world and
they want to invest all their capital in the US.
God bless them.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Okay, So I need I need some help here. Square
in the circle for a second. So if good good good,
If trade trade deficits are good, and all tariffs are
bad and self defeating, what what? And so trade and
balance he's a good thing. We want trade and balance.
Do you like what Trump is doing or are you
trying to tell him to not do any of this?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
No? No, I like I'm the biggest fan. I'm his
biggest fan. I think he's negotiating, and I think he's
negotiating to get them to reduce their tariffs against US,
which are far larger than our tariffs and trade barriers
are against them. And I think he brings them to
the table. What is it, sixty seventy countries are coming
to negotiate? What are they coming to negotiate? We will
(10:28):
cut our tariffs dramatically. Please just allow us access to
your market. And I think that's just the wonderful thing
for Trump to do, and I think he's going to
be very successful at it. It scares the live in
hell how to be By the way, I'm a wuss,
I'm not a negotiaer. I'm not a guy like Trump.
Trump knows how to negotiate and he loves doing it,
and he's really successful at it. But my belief is
(10:49):
that Trump deep down is a free trader all the way,
and I think he just really wants to get them
to come here and lower tariffs on their products by
a lot. And he did this the first term. By
the way, that the Japanese Trade Deal was great for
lowering tariffs, the USMCA was wonderful for lowering tariffs and barriers,
the South Korean deally did, the one he did with Brazil,
(11:11):
the one he did with Columbia, all resulted in better
trade relationships with these countries. And that's what I think
he's trying to do. Now. He can tell you otherwise,
and he may well be not doing this, but I
really have full trust in him that he's doing the
right thing and that it's very comfortable.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
Let me ask you this. A lot of people listening
in the Midwest. JD.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Vance obviously wrote his book Hillbilly Elegy, which I rest seller.
I'm sure you read it, Buck, and I have read it.
What is the answer for people who feel like the
jobs have been hollowed out in the industrial Midwest? For
people listening to us in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio that got
used to having those jobs that were going to pay
(11:55):
so well to produce American goods.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
Is that an issue?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I want you to tell the audience where the two
of you are located.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
I'm in Tennessee.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Okay, I'm in Nationville too. Now why am I in Nashville.
We are the lowest tax state in the nation, and
earning income is a lot more fun with lower taxes,
lower regulations. We have no death tax, we have no
gift tax, we have no unearned cap tax, we have
no income tax. We have one of the lowest property
taxes in the nation. We have the best spending, we
have the best public services. We don't have a manu
(12:26):
half facturing problem in Tennessee. All these auto companies are
coming in here in floods. The problem with manufacturing is Detroit.
It's Michigan, it's Ohio, it's Pennsylvania, it's Wisconsin, it's Illinois.
These places are pits. They are anti production, anti prosperity places,
and they're driving all the business out. It's not China.
(12:49):
It's the governments of these states that have made it
absolutely intolerable. Can you imagine opening up a factory in Detroit,
Michigan today, where property taxes are in some places up
the fifty percent, fifteen percent on that, where the state
income tax, the death tax, the reunion. It's a horrible place.
Our problem is with the states that have the manufacturing,
(13:12):
and they are repelling that manufacturing all moss and that's
the problem. It's not the competition from abroad. And if
you don't hurt me, just look at Tennessee and how
we're doing in Texas and Florida. All of us are
doing well except for those horribly run states.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
All right, doctor Rod Laugher, appreciate your perspective today, sir.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Hey, it's my pleasure in any time. By the way,
it's fun being with you guys, and I love watching
you all the time. You guys are spectacular and I'm
really proud you're in Tennessee.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Thank you. I need to we need to get dinner sometime.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I would anytime you want. Just give me a call
and it's done, and I'll even pay for it if
it's lock as the Mssdonald's.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
All right, I appreciate it, doctor Laffer, Thank you so much.
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Speaker 2 (14:39):
You don't know what.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
You don't know right, but you could. On the Sunday
Hang with Clay and Buck podcast.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Welcome Back in Clay, Travis bought Sexton show art Lapper
interesting perspective. We'll get into that during the course of
the program. Brilliant economists and what his advice. I think
he's basically speaking to Trump through the Wall Street Journal
article and also through the interview he just did with us.
(15:07):
But Buck is also about to have a baby, which
should help the economy in some way because you're bringing
another child into the American citizenship.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
I'm increasing GDP.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
You just need to have two more and then you
will have increased the population relative to your own life.
And then but you asked, I think, what was I
like on delivery day? This is delivery day in theory
for Buck or it'll be early tomorrow morning, sometime into Thursday. Laura,
(15:41):
my wife, who probably remembers things way better, was listening
and she sent in a talkback. We've had three boys.
I've been there for all of their birth seventeen, fourteen,
and ten. She probably remembers things a little bit better.
I don't even know what she said. She sent this
to producer Ali, here is my wife talking about birth.
Speaker 6 (16:00):
Congratulations Boock and Carrie Clay and I are so excited
for you. Get ready for every decision you make for
the rest of your life to be one hundred times
more complicated than it already is. But I think plays
advice of just don't cause any problems during L and
D in the labor and delivery room is probably the
(16:21):
best advice. You need to just be there for moral
support and otherwise stay out of the way and don't
do anything unless Carrie asks you to. I do remember
Play complaining about the Wi Fi. I think he also
complained about the television channels and he couldn't find the
game he wanted to watch on anywhere. I think we
(16:42):
ended up watching some not important golf tournament like the
American Express Tournament or something that didn't matter. And besides that,
Play was otherwise pretty well behaved without drawing too much
attention to himself, So that really is the best advice.
Just be there for your wife and don't cause any distractions.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
I forgot that the television situation was just indefensible. How
do you not have the sporting event channels in the
delivery suites? The Wi Fi didn't work very well. I
couldn't find the game that I wanted to watch. This
is the most Clay Travis thing I've ever heard. By
the way, wife's about to give birth.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
He's like, I can't watch the I can't watch the
SEC football game right now. This is she did.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
To her credit time at well. Because our first son
was born in between NFC AFC Championship Week and the
Super Bowl. So if I remember correctly, I think he
was born on a Sunday in between those two. But yeah,
there was there was a sporting event that I was
trying to get on and I was like, I mean,
come on, just have a normal cable setup and a
normal WiFi. I don't know what are they thinking, but
(17:53):
that's great Laura's advice.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Thank you, Laura.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I believe we got Julie Kelly coming up now, Buck coming.
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(19:02):
into Clay and Buck. We've got some big breaking news.
Julie Kelly about to join us here in a moment,
But first our market maestro here on Clay and Buck.
Clay Travis watching the stock ticker closely. What just happened?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Clay uh Trump has announced a ninety day pause on
all countries for the tariffs other than China. He has
increased the tariff on China to one hundred and twenty
five percent. This is kind of the advice that you
and I were giving if he wanted to focus on China,
(19:33):
which is the real culprit here. How is the stock market?
Some responding, Buck, I hope you guys bought the dip.
The Dow now is up twenty four hundred points, Buck,
that is six and a half percent that it is surging.
The Nasdaq up nearly nine percent. This has all happened
(19:54):
in the last couple of minutes. The S and P
five hundred is up nearly four hundred points, so much
of the selloff associated with the tariff battle has now
vanished just about overnight. We tried to tell you, we said,
(20:16):
buy the dips sometimes, don't even look at stock prices.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
Don't panic.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Unfortunately, I know a lot of people sold at the
bottom and now they're going to be buying back in
as the stock market is surging. But I hope you
held on. But that is the absolute latest right now.
Lots of fluctuation. But again, just to kind of put
it in context, the S and P five hundred is
(20:41):
now basically trading the same place that it was in August,
and and you know it could easily be basically where
it was in September. So anyway, stocks go up and down.
Trump negotiating. Now what we said I think is accurate,
which is this is now just China versus the United States,
(21:05):
and to a large extent, the other countries are now
aligned in favor of free trade.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
And now we'll see what happens with China.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
All right, Buck, we have got Julie Kelly cued up
to talk about many things, but it wanted to give
that updates everybody out there.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yes, Julie Kelly. You all know her from her declassified
sub stack, which you should go subscribe to, and her
great book and her great work. Julie, thanks for being
with us.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Thank you, and Buck, congratulations to you and Carrie. You're
going to have an exciting evening and probably day tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Thank you. I don't know, I don't know if you
heard our friend Jesse's Jesse Kelly said, it's gonna be
a tough twenty four hours for me physically. I need
to hydrate, I need to make sure I get a
lot of get rested. And everyone's freaking out about this,
but it's pretty funny. I'm here for Carrie. For anything
that she needs, and we could not be more excited
about it. So thank you very much, Julie. And all right,
(22:03):
all right now I got to get you on what
is going on here. A few things that come to
mind and involve Julie Kelly and her work. Judge Boseburg,
this guy after the Supreme Court comes in and says,
hold on a second, you can't just venue shop. He
had a hearing scheduled. And where is this guy now?
(22:24):
It feels like he's become the Adam Schiff of resistance judges,
which is not a compliment, you know, claim Buck.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
It's amazing to see the same judges who for four
years insisted a mostly nonviolent protest to a government building
on a Wednesday afternoon represent it an attempt to overthrow
democracy and overturn the results of the twenty twenty election.
Keep in mind, to JEBB. Bosberg routinely in JA six
cases call January sixth an insurrection. That's what you call it,
(22:54):
even for people who are in his core room on
low level misdemeanors like parading in the Capitol. But yet
here he is actually trying to overturn the results of
the twenty twenty four elections sabotage Donald Trump's agenda and
by extension, the seventy two million or so Americans who
voted for him. The Supreme Court is not stopping him.
(23:16):
So even though they just vacated his two temporary restraining
orders banning deportation flights of these illegal Venezuelans covered under
the President's Alien Enemy Zact proclamation from March fifteenth, even
though the Supreme Court vacated those temporary restraining orders, said
that Washington was the improper venue that these illegals should
(23:36):
see habeas petitions where they are in custody, which is Texas.
That's not stopping him. You are exactly right, Buck. So
yesterday he had a hearing scheduled in his courtroom on
a preliminary injunction. This is the next natural step after
a temporary restraining order. This is what the ACLU, who
is representing these legal Venezuelans want, and this would put
(23:58):
a longer ban on these flights even after the Supreme
Court ruling. Jeb Brosberg said in April sixteenth deadline for
the ACLU to come back to him explain why they're
going to continue to pursue this preliminary injunction and why
they believe that Washington d C. Jeb Bosberg's courtroom is
still the appropriate place to seek that relief even though
(24:21):
the Supreme Court said very clearly it doesn't belong in
Washington d C. Furthermore, we could talk a little bit
about this too. He is going forward with his contempt
investigation against the Trump administration and officials who he believes
to fight a separate court order, a verbal order to
return planes on March fifteenth, and we are expecting that
(24:42):
opinion from Jeb Bosberg really any hour, any day, but
sometime this week.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Are you even stunned, Julie, Because I gotta admit I am,
and this is me, being a lawyer. I knew that
Trump resistance two point zero would eventually emerge somewhere. I
crazy me thought it might come from the Democrat Party
or maybe the legacy media. It feels like, by and large,
the Democrat Party is so impotent that they can't even
(25:10):
put counter arguments out. Meanwhile, legacy media is collapsing as
we speak.
Speaker 5 (25:15):
I mean, the business models are shriveling up and dying.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Now, we just got all these federal District court judges
behaving frankly in an unprecedented manner getting slapped down. We
had trio of them slapped down by the Supreme Court.
But I gotta admit I didn't foresee them being as
aggressive as they have been. I knew they would be
aligned in many ways against Trump, but I didn't think
we would see it historically without precedent, attack coming from
(25:42):
the federal district court level against Trump and his administration,
did you, I mean in a place.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
I sort of agree with you. I did not as
bad as these judges in Washington DC are, and of
course they've been covering them for years, both the District
and Palett Court, and seeing how viciously and vengefully and
remorselessly they treated January sixth defendants and the President and
his associates as well, I really did not expect this
level of defiance, this level of sabotage, that is the
(26:14):
word that what these judges are doing uniformally in Washington,
d C. So I guess I would agree with you.
I'm a little surprised at the extent to which they
are going, which of course they did for years against
Donald Trump in the same DC courthouse. Whether it was
special Council Robert Mueller's investigation, and Special Council Jack Smith.
(26:35):
All these proceedings were handled in this DC Federal Courthouse.
But to see them line up like little lemmings, especially
behind job Bossburg who's the chief judge, and deny all
of these lawsuits, side with the plaintiffs and all of
these lawsuits who really have no vested interest in what
(26:57):
the Trump policies are, but going to any extent that
they possibly can, these judges to side with people who
are trying to take down the president's agenda and again
emphasize the will of the American people who put Donald
Trump in the White House to do exactly the disruption
that he is doing. So yeah, and of course defying
(27:19):
the Supreme Court is a whole other level which we
see job Bossberg doing. But these Democrat judges, as you know,
just like Democrat rank and file voters, do not consider
the Supreme Court legitimate. They are not at all excuse me,
I have a little call. They are not at all
chagrin by being smacked down by the highest court.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
We're speaking of Julie Kelly declassifizers at the sub Stack,
and Julie, we need to get her some some crocket
coffee or some tea with honey in it, perhaps even better, Julie,
sorry that you got to call. Appreciate you, you know, pushing
through and U and telling everybody across the country with
I need to know about Judge. By the way, I've
learned how to pronounce his name Bosberg. I guess bas
(28:06):
I was just reading it off the or i'd been
reading it. I hadn't really heard it. I want to
bring your attention to something else too. The I'm sure
you saw this. The acting IRS Commissioner is resigning from
the IRS because the Trump administration has said you need
to share data from your government, data about essentially illegals
(28:30):
that the IRS has information on for enforcement purposes. I
think a lot of people are seeing, Julie that for
the entity that can lock you up because you don't
give enough of your money as an American to them,
and they get to determine after the fact what that
amount is. To then say, hold on a second, what
do you mean you're going to use our information for
(28:54):
federal immigration law purposes? Just goes to show that there
is this whole mentality even within the government that illegal
aliens are a special protected class.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
That's exactly right. It's pretty stunning to see. And this
is the acting director who I think she took over
in February, and all of these deep staters, everyone in
the administrative state, who will go out of their way
to protect they believe that these government agencies belong to them.
They don't believe that these government agencies belong to the
(29:26):
people or certainly should be supervised by the president and
his team. So that's why you see this defiance not
just by the judges, but of course the heads of
these departments and agencies. But of course we are entitled
to this information. I love how transparency and accountability was
such a big cause during Trump's first presidency that went away,
(29:48):
you know, during the second and now all of a sudden,
we can't have transparency and accountability as he's trying to
clean up and reform all of these corrupt agencies. So
I really commend the Trump administration for their focus, especially
on illegal immigration, because as you guys know, that was
one of the top issues that propelled him into office,
(30:10):
and they are not backing down at all. But we
as America, as American citizens, tax payers, are entitled to know,
you know, and we saw this too with the voting
roles and illegals who are on Social Security. This is
a huge scandal with real time implications on our country,
(30:30):
on our national security, on our economy, and certainly on
our elections. So good riddance to the acting IRS Director.
I'm sure there's a lot of other qualified people who
understand the cause who will replace that individual, and we'll
just keep pushing forward. Intel a judge steps in and
(30:50):
stops all of it, which I'm sure is only a
matter of time.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Julie, we appreciate you, keep the fight going and we
will talk to you again.
Speaker 5 (30:59):
Have a good weekend, joy.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Masters, Oh I definitely will. Thanks guys.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
That's Julie Kelly, American Patriots. He's been fantastic with us.
You know, Spring's here and so is the Iconic Masters Tournament.
They have the Part three challenge today, which is super cool.
I know we're on in Augusta. We got a monster
audience there. I bet it's chaotic down in Augusta right
now as we get ready for Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday
(31:26):
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And politics, but also a little comic relief.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
Clay Travis at buck Sexton.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you
get your podcasts. Welcome back Clay Travis buck Sexton Show,
Major breaking News. We appreciate Art Laugher and Julie Kelly
will react to Art Laugher a little bit in the
third hour. But Buck, you wanted to read again, let
me give you as your stock market reporter. The stock
(33:05):
market as we speak now up over two thousand points,
the Nasdaq soaring, the S and P five hundred soaring
up a massive amount three let's see seven percent, And
basically I was just looking Buck, the stock prices are
now essentially the same place they were in late September.
(33:28):
So for people out there that have wanted to panic,
the media I think has been feeding the panic as well.
If you didn't feel super poor in September with your stocks,
then I would suggest that in April you shouldn't feel
super poor either. They're the exact same price now that
they were in late September. And here is the statement
from the President.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Based on the lack of respect that China has shown
to the world's markets. Trump put this out on truth
Social I am hereby raising the tariff charge to China
by the United States to one hundred and twenty five scent,
effective immediately. At some point, hopefully in the near future,
China will realize that the days of ripping off the
USA and other countries is no longer sustainable or acceptable. Conversely,
(34:11):
and based on the fact that more than seventy five
countries have called the representatives of the United States, including
Departments of Commerce, Treasury, ust R, to negotiate deals, et cetera,
et cetera, et cetera, I have authorized a ninety day
pause and substantially lowered reciprocal tariff during this period of
ten percent, also effective immediately. Thank you for your attention
(34:33):
on this matter. So everybody comes to the negotiation table
ninety days to figure out the future. China in the
in the targets in the site still because they won't
play ball at all. They think they're just going to
do things their way. Clay, I think this is a
very very interesting development. Obviously, the market is reacting right
(34:56):
now very positively to this. Let's get we have a
lot of stuff going vip. Jason wrote this in Clay,
is art for real meaning Art Laugher? Or was he
playing Devil's advocate? I'm now more confused than ever. Clay,
Do you want to give your take on this, because
I think some of you picked up on what clearly
(35:17):
he doesn't agree with everything Trump is doing, but he
loves Trump and thinks he's going to get to a
better side of this, right, Like, how do you think
you know? Art was squaring the circle a little bit
on that one.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Look, we need to talk about this in a third
hour because I do think that what we told you is.
Speaker 5 (35:33):
What has now emerged.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
We said this is really all about China, and that
ultimately now you have seen Trump has squarely put his
target on China. I think what's happened here and we'll
dive into this in a third hour again, stock market soaring,
ninety day pause on all tariffs because other countries are
trying to negotiate, but China is remaining in transigent. I
(35:57):
think what's happening here is Trump's team decided if we
go right out and we directly strike China and take
their tariffs to one hundred and twenty five percent, then
it's going to look outrageous by putting the tariffs on
everybody and then backing it off. Trump now has isolated
(36:22):
China because China has uniquely responded to American tariffs by
raising tariffs on American products. And so now we've got
what really is the central struggle. It's United States against
China global trade war. And now Trump has managed to
put every other country on the United States side, and
(36:45):
he's isolating China as a unique bad actor. In other words,
I think he has trapped China in a tough spot
relative to the rest of the world. We'll talk about
that break down what Art Lapper was saying and more
when we come back
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