May 16, 2025 • 39 mins
In this episode, Tudor speaks with "Lisa," the Director of Investigative Intelligence at the Shepard's Watch Foundation, about the alarming rise of sex trafficking in the United States. They discuss the nature of trafficking ads, the differences between domestic and migrant trafficking, and the grooming process that targets vulnerable children, particularly those with autism. "Lisa" shares insights into the life inside trafficking rings, the role of investigative intelligence in combating trafficking, and the legal challenges faced in protecting victims. The Tudor Dixon Podcast is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network. For more visit TudorDixonPodcast.com
Learn more about Shepard's Watch HERE
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. We are going to
have a very interesting show for you today. If you're watching,
you can see me. You won't see my guest, but
you're going to hear my guest because we're going to
keep their identity a secret. Today I'm joined by the
director of Investigative Intelligence at the Shepherd's Watch Foundation. She
(00:22):
goes by Lisa for anonymity. Shepherd's Watch is a nonprofit
organization started by private investigators that target sex trafficking rings,
specifically focused in Texas As. I said, we're not going
to have Lisa's face on camera, but Lisa, I want
to welcome you to the podcast. Thank you for coming here.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
What you're doing is fascinating, but it's a world that
so few people really understand, and I think it's a
world that could affect any of us at any time.
But I think a lot of parents are sort of
naive to exactly what's happening. So can you explain to
us what you're doing and what you're seeing in the
United States?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Well, trafficking, of course, you would think that the numbers
were going down because we have a closed border, we
have a lot of education programs. We have a lot
of nonprofits that are working in the counter trafficking movement.
But what we're seeing is the numbers are actually going up.
We used to see about thirteen hundred plus sex ads
(01:26):
a day where they sell humans for sex, many of them.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
You say, you see these ads, Sorry to cut you off,
but where do you see that?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I mean, that's shocking to me.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Well, you'd be shocked to know that it's not just
on the dark web. I mean these are ads that
are easily accessible online. Some of these ads come through Facebook,
some of the ads come through TikTok, some of the
ads come through x platform. The ads are out there,
they're easily accessible. The numbers we have software, proprietary software
(02:01):
that basically goes out and monitors these platforms and pulls
in the ads for a different area, so we can
concentrate on different areas or regions in the United States
to find out, you know, look at the EBB and
flow of the trafficking patterns and to see what's considered
to be a hot spot. We create heat maps with
that intelligence to show the concentrated areas and if it's
(02:23):
moving and changing, like within Texas, but we averaged. Like
Dallas and surrounding counties, it was thirteen one hundred a
day and change, it grew to fourteen hundred, and by
January twenty twenty five we were at fifteen hundred sex
ads a day, and as of two weeks ago, I'm
at seventeen hundred. So my numbers are not going down,
(02:44):
they're going up, which tells me it is a supply
and demand issue. But there's a lot of money. There's
a lot of money connected to these sex trafficking operations.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
And these are people of all ages or I mean,
I don't even know.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I can't even apprehend when you say a sex ad,
I can't even comprehend what that is.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
So can you break that down for us what that
looks like?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
The ads are going to be anything from illicit massage businesses.
They're so popular now that there's more illicit massage businesses
than there are Starbucks. You can go into certain areas
of the Dallas Metroplex and there's one on every corner.
It's crazy. Sometimes you'll have two in the same retail
(03:31):
shopping center. And some of these illicit massage businesses are
actually right next to schools where there's kids, So you'll
have you know, sex addicts and predators walking in and
out of these locations right next to an area where
there's children crossing the parking lot. So you have those ads,
and those ads populate quite a few times a day.
(03:52):
And then you'll have sex trafficking rings. And our average
ring is about twenty girls, and those are going to
be cross platformed. And it can pertain to anything that
It could focus on ethnic trafficking, which might be you're
looking for a certain type of girl or nationality. It
can be straight, gay, trans trafficking, all ages, all ethnicities.
(04:20):
It's out there.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
So are these the people who are the victims the
people who are being trafficked?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
You said the.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Borders closed, so we would think it's going down. Is
it generally people that have been brought across the border.
Are we seeing people that are American citizens involved in
this too?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, it's both. You know, the numbers of the ethnic
rings have not gone down. My trafficking rings have not
gone down for us. It's still a supply and demand issue.
When you're looking at one hundred and twenty dollars for
every fifteen minutes for sex, that's a lot of money.
Average girl in a ring of twenty twenty five is
making about a million a year. They're not keeping that.
(05:01):
Of course, it's going back to transnational criminal organizations, but
so that's not going to stop. You have a lot
of money that's at stake. They have no interest in
slowing down. Then you can you also see the domestic
trafficking as well. I think the things that have kind
of disturbed us lately within the last year the trend
(05:23):
of the grooming online and focusing on autistic children and
bringing them into the trafficking rings, which was really disturbing
for us and heartbreaking. And those numbers have not decreased either.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
So unfortunately, how do they get those kids? I mean,
how do you get a domestic child? Because I call
me naive, but when I think about this, I think
of all of these hundreds of thousands of kids that
went missing, that came across the border that went missing,
and I think, well, maybe that's where these kids are.
But how are you recruiting kids that are, like you said,
(05:58):
autistic kids that are American citizen? Are they finding them online?
Are they are they putting out some sort of a
trigger for a kid that seems like, oh, I'm missing something.
I'll connect with these people. How do they get them?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Well, I think in domestic trafficking, it's a little bit
different than the migrant trafficking because most of those girls
are paying and boys are paying off homage to crossing over.
It's their penance for coming across the border to the cartels.
But with the domestic kids, the kids that are groomed online,
like on gaming discord, it's extremely dangerous and you know,
(06:32):
until we have a legislation that locks down the solid
pathway to put these guys in prison for the rest
of their life or registered as offenders for the rest
of their life, we're going to continue to have that issue.
They focus on the autistic children because they have a
problem understanding stranger danger. Very smart, very intelligent, just don't
(06:54):
have some of the social cues that probably puts them
in a easier victim category. But gaming discord is very dangerous.
We see that they've seen them focusing on kids at
as young as nine ten, so that is one way
to lure them away. They lure them away from their families.
They get them to digit their devices, digital devices, tracking devices.
(07:18):
Some of these kids were groomed for two three years
by people online. Sometimes it's a shorter period of time.
If they know that they're close to the age of
seventeen in the States where you can consent for sex
at sixteen or seventeen, then those predators will wait until
they turn over what's called illegal age. Even if a
(07:40):
child is mentally thirteen years old and emotional intelligence, this
is prime for them. That makes them an easy target.
Another way that they're getting the domestic kids is you know, listen,
I mean, when you're looking at recruiters being female, and
you've got friends that will say, hey, they're online friends,
(08:02):
meet me over here, or somebody they meet at a party,
or they meet it attract me. You'd be surprised how
they start luring these kids into these rings. And the
traffickers know, and they use other children, and they use
older teenagers as recruitment or recruiters for recruitment.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Then these kids are actually leaving home and they're disappearing
or what happens to them once they've been recruited.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Well, I mean, you're going to have multiple different scenarios.
You have foster children that get sucked into this vourtext.
You have children that come from broken homes, You have
kids that come from great homes. You have kids that
have drug problems. You have kids that did not have
drug problems that get put on drugs once they get
put into these rings. Kids that are preyed upon because
(08:47):
maybe they're convinced that they're trans or they're convinced that
they're homosexual, or by kids that have social awkwardness. They
find the weak link in the armor and that's where
they focus on them, the predators, and so they find
that weak link and that's what they do to lure
them into these rings. And once they're in these rings,
it's difficult for them to get out unless they make
(09:08):
an outcry or they have an opportunity to break away.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
And when you say they're in them, though, are they
sleeping there as the site? Is there a house? I mean,
this is so.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Hard for me to envision what exactly happens in a
trafficking ring.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Well, you'd be surprised what the trafficking rings are. I mean,
we have trafficking rings that are in million dollar neighborhoods,
gated communities, women that are held hostage, and IMBs that
live in the back quarters of an illicit massage business
that never leave there. We have kids that are living
in everyday homes. We have hotels, we have Airbnbs, we
(09:50):
have motels. We've seen motel operations running trafficking rings in
the same location for eight months. We have technolog where
we can see that information that they have actually been
in that location for eight months. So that's crazy to
me that you've got miners going in and out of
(10:11):
a motel and no alarm bells are going off. And
that's happening all over the United States. It's not just
in Texas.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
So how do you bust these how do you find them?
How do you get in there?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Well, what we do is we are considered to be informants,
so are heroes to us are going to be law
enforcement and first responders, fire marshals, I mean, all the
people that can go out there and make the difference.
What we do is we build what's called a target
pack and that information comes from a cross platform of
tools that we use technology and once we gather the
(10:48):
information of locating where the ring is, we have the
sex ads, we have the rings location, we set up
if it is a safe situation, we'll set up a
surveillance situation to gather information and intel and we hand
that off to law enforcement and they create the probable
cause for what they need to do so that they're
(11:08):
following all the correct pathways. You know, I and tees dotted.
The district attorneys know who we are, but they don't
know what cases we work on. But basically we just
we sit here and we support law enforcement with as
much information that we can give them so that they
can do their job. Because an NGO person does not
have jurisdiction to so called buster rings, so that's a fallacy.
(11:32):
You don't ever want to do anything that's going to
interfere with an investigation or throw an investigation because of
your involvement. We let law enforcement do their job. They're
very capable, they're very smart, they're very talented. They have
all the right tools and equipment and the people and
the training. What we have to do is help shorten
that gap of time because these are so prevalent and
(11:54):
in so many different places. Think of Shepherd's Watch walking
into the minefield with the flash going there's a mine,
there's a mine, there's a mine, And that's what we do.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Stick around.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
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Speaker 3 (13:30):
Now stay tuned, We've got more after this.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
The Attorney General's Office in Texas says that there were
one point six million online commercial sex ads in twenty
twenty and they believe two hundred and twenty three thoy
nine hundred and ten children were involved. How how could
that number be so high in just one state and
what does it look like nationwide?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Well, I think that the tech this is replicated you
know all over the United States. You know, the trafficking
rings don't stop here. So you know, if we see
a big ring, especially one that's tied to a criminal organization,
it never stays in Texas. There will be trafficking. That's
also you know, coming out of Texas to Cincinnati, Ohio,
(14:18):
It'll go to Nashville, it'll go to Atlanta, It'll go
to Florida, California, New York, New Jersey, it goes all
over the United States. I think Texas has had such
a problem because we have been a border state I
think we are a humongous state with a lot of
revenue coming in and out. We have a lot of
tourism that comes in and out, and we have you know,
our share of TCOs here. So that's going to create
(14:42):
a pea tradition and environment for this to grow. And
I do think that there's effort being made, but unfortunately,
they have counterintelligence moves, and they they have the bodies
and the rings and the money, so you're you're always
playing catch up with these guys.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
We always hear about sex trafficking increasing around Super Bowl
time and big sporting events.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Is that something that you watch for.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yes, and that's one thousand percent correct. And the reason
for that is anytime that you have a conference, an event,
a rodeo, you're going to see a big spike number.
Even NASCAR baseball games, football game, soccer, you're going to
see a spike in those numbers. Unfortunately, there's people that
(15:33):
you know, that's the predilection is you know, you know,
younger boys, younger girls. It's very very sad.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
What is the age, I mean, what's the average age
for someone who's in one of these rings.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
The average age of what we see is anywhere between
fourteen and seventeen. It can go all the way up
to you know, twenty through twenty four. By the time
they're twenty five, they've kind of aged out. You know,
we see online code when you talk about where are
these people? Where are these children? You know, we use
(16:08):
when I talk about the counter intelligence moves. I'm not
going to give too much information here because I don't
want to set them up. But we do watch the ads.
We do watch the lingo. We do watch the patterns
of how they traffic and what they put into the ads.
It was, you know, maybe five six years ago. It
was easily identified, more so then than it is now
(16:30):
because they got smarter as we increased the counter trafficking movement.
They got more creative on where they place these ads
and have kids, how they place the ads, what lingo
they use. They cover them with their face with an emoji.
You you know, you don't see the kids nude. You'll
see them in a bathing suit. It's it's very interesting,
(16:53):
but they're still there. A lot of times the kids
are buried within the rings. So you might see an
ad for somebody that's so called twenty two years old,
but embedded in that ring as a fourteen year old.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Good grief. So do you ever have parents come to
you and say, we're looking for our child.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Have you seen them all the time?
Speaker 3 (17:13):
How does that work? Tell me about that?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Well, we have people who have you intercepted communications between
their child and a predator and you know a lot
of times they have filed missing kid report or if
a child is seventeen, they might be considered a runaway
versus an active missing case. We are moving towards working
(17:39):
with law enforcement. A lot of law enforcement officers are
very cooperative with us so that we can mark these
kids as endangered. If it's a kid that hasn't inhaler,
if it's a kid that's you know, spectrum disorder, if
it's a kid that has a disability, we will immediately
have been marked endangered. If they're a minor, they get
marked endangered. That's critical when it comes to looking for
(18:00):
for missing children. If they are on that age, you know,
delimiter of seventeen, sometimes you get a little bit more
pushback because they are of the age of consent. So
you know, that's where it's important to give up the
conversations or give up the reasons of why you think
they're being trafficked. But you know, we get calls all
the time. It could be anything from the grooming and
(18:21):
exploitation online that's coming from somebody that's trying to traffic
a kid, to you know, parents that maybe a child
has had a substance abuse problem, maybe they are a runaway,
maybe they're a foster kid that's you know, constantly running away,
or maybe it's a kid that this is just absolutely
not their normal behavior. They would not turn off their phone,
(18:43):
they would not leave and not contact mom and dad.
We get all those calls. I mean, it's it's been
a crazy wild bride in the last two years.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
So is it oftentimes a parent who's been told by
the police your child ran away.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
There's you know, this is a this is their choice.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
We're not able to chase them down and they go
to you and say, no, this wasn't their choice. Something
weird happened.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yes, I mean, because you have to understand that, you
know that there's laws that they have to bude by
two So, I mean, we can get mad at law enforcement,
but what we really need to be doing is put
pushing back on legislation. Seventeen year olds are still in
high school. So you know, when you talk about the
age of seventeen, what are the two things that seventeen
year olds can do? Well, guess what is to be
tried for capital murder and consent for sex. You can't vote, right, Oh,
(19:30):
you can drive, you can't vote, you can't get an apartment,
you can't get a credit card, you can't join a military.
There's all these things you can't do at seventeen, but
then you can do these things over here. So that
makes no sense to me. I mean, this is high
school age, and I think you think.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
So you you've been talking about seventeen, but seventeen, I
mean you still it's still illegal to traffic a seventeen
year old. It's just that they can get away with
it because.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
They can say they're agreeing to.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
This or how does that? I mean, why is that?
Is that the magic number for what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
It's a tricky age and there's a lot of seventeen
year olds on the street for that reason, because you know,
when it's a child, they can't consent. So there's there's
no way that that's legal to have sex with a child,
and that's going to be under the age of seventeen
at seventeen, if they are saying that they're consenting, they
have to make an outcry as a victim because you
(20:23):
can't go into the clause of they you know, are
not of legal age. So that's when you're really proving
a trafficking case. But we do need to move on legislation.
You know. I'm not saying that the seventeen year olds
that are coming out of high school to go off
and have a college sweetheart, you know, and we're starting
to enact you know, statutory rape laws and things like that.
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that if it's
(20:44):
a trafficking situation and they're seventeen, that should be considered
a minor And I think that that would really actually
boost a lot of issues with the calls that we
get for seventeen year olds that have either been targeted
or they are missing.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
So how do you do that because we've got Democrats,
I mean, I've even heard some Republicans lawmakers who are saying,
we want to reduce the name of the age of consent.
So does that have to be a totally separate law
that says if you are a teenager and you, how
(21:20):
do you differentiate between being trafficked and.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Consent with a boyfriend?
Speaker 1 (21:27):
I mean, does that Is there a way to write
that law so that you can protect these kids.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
I'd really like to know why they want to reduce
that age.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
I agree, and this is a migra.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
That's an issue, and it shouldn't be Democrat or Republican.
I've never known a sex predator to ask a child
how their parents voted. I've never known them to ask
a victim how did you vote before they rape them? So,
in my book, at seventeen, at sixteen years old, these
are still kids. And if you know, you can't sit
(22:00):
here and tell me that it's okay for them to
run around to be trafficked, you know, or to consent
to being raped, which is what it is in my
book versus you know, then why aren't you letting them vote? So,
I mean, we have to be really careful with this.
And I don't know why anybody would want to move
that age bracket, because you know, we have a lot
(22:20):
of teenagers out there that are being trafficked right now,
and it's for this very reason. It's for this very argument,
you know, especially if it's somebody that's on the spectrum,
you know, that has the emotional intelligence of a thirteen
year old. That's just I can't wrap my mind around that.
Why anybody would want to argue that. I think that
we should be protecting our kids. Let them graduate from
high school, let them make decisions after that. I mean,
(22:43):
are you going to have cases where it's going to
be tough because you don't have an outcry for a victim? Sure,
you know we're going to bang our heads up against
the lall on those, but we're never going to stop
trying and we're never going to get there.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
It seems like there's a lot of shame around this issue,
and the United States doesn't talk about it much. I mean,
I don't hear it. I'm in the political world. I
don't even hear it from Republicans who are very vocal
about protecting kids coming out and saying we have a
massive trafficking problem in this country. We're I think we're
second in the nation for sex tracks or second in
(23:18):
the world for sex trafficking.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Isn't that right?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah? Yeah, you know, I mean, if you think about it,
I mean, it used to be sex tourism took place
in the Philippines and Thailand, and I guarantee you that
it takes place here now and it is you know,
and I don't know. I think the only the most
simplistic way that I can put this is we have
a heart problem. We have a heart problem with humanity.
(23:44):
Why in the world would we want not want to
protect our kids one thousand percent from this happening to them?
And why would we ever want to protect somebody that
would be a sexual predator to our children. That is
something we have a heart problem. We have to change
that mindset.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
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up after this. You brought up autism, and I think
that we've started to see in the past year that
there has been There are people out there exploiting that
(25:20):
group of children for multiple different reasons, but they're.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Very I think you made a good point. They can be.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Influenced because part of what they deal with as an
autistic human is that they don't always understand social cues
and what someone is trying to They don't perceive what
the next step is necessarily in a relationship, and that's
where someone who is dangerous can trick that person into
doing something else.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Do you think that we.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Have as a society been too lax about protecting the
kids that are the most vulnerable too. I mean, it's
like there's this attitude of kids can make their own choices.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Kids don't have to be protected.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Kids are just as mature as adults, and regardless of
whether you have autism or you are just the average
sixteen year old kid. I mean, in the state of Michigan,
I can't even get my kids medical records after they
turn twelve years old. They have to allow me to
see their medical records. Why are we at this point
(26:24):
where we are trying to force kids into being little
adults when they're just not ready for that.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Well, we've stripped away there in a sense, we've stripped
away their ability to be children. We're trying to fast
track them growing up. And so you know, in one sense,
we want to make them autonomous at the age of
you know, twelve and thirteen years old, and I think
that's insanity. You know, why aren't you having them marry
at twelve and thirteen? Right? I mean, this is insanity. So,
(26:51):
you know, we have a heart problem. We have to
peel this back and dial this back on so many
different layers. But if you continue to push kids to adults,
their minds can't wrap around. They're not developed mentally, emotionally,
spiritually at that point in their life. To make those
types of decisions, and that's why historically we haven't given
(27:12):
them that platform to make those decisions. They don't have
the emotional intelligence at twelve and thirteen as the same
to somebody that's eighteen years old. It's just not there.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
That's funny because that's scientifically proven.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
However, people don't want to talk about scientifically proven facts
when it's for some reason inconvenient to them.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
And there is.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
I mean, you make a great point, why aren't they
getting married? But I mean, if you're an adult at twelve,
why aren't you going out into the workforce?
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Why do you still have at least six more years.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Of school left? It's just crazy, it's insanity. How do
we flip this back? What happens when some of these
kids are pulled out of these rings? What is the
torture that they've been through? What is the torture that
they go through to try to recover from this?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Well? You know, I think that that's a big question
for victim restoration people and re align with a lot
of those guys, and they have a very tough job.
You're having to basically rebuild someone that's broken. I would
say that psychologically, mentally, emotionally. You know, there's some things
there that are going to take some time to rebuild.
(28:24):
You know, if you get somebody that's been trafficked for
a year, you probably have depending upon that person or
that child, you probably have a better chance of recovery
than someone that's been trafficked for you know, five years,
ten years, that's a long road. I've looked at kids,
you know, dead pin in the face, and I've looked
(28:44):
at adults that were trafficked for you know, five ten years.
It's a very blank stare. It's very sad. I mean,
we've killed their soul. So you know, we should be
treating this topic with the utmost full force shield around
these kids, and we're not doing it. And I don't
(29:05):
know why. I don't know why we're not putting the
legislation out there. I don't know why we're not upholding
to it. And I don't know why we're giving any
wiggle room when it comes to the registration of sex
offenders that should never be removed off that table. You
want to play with parole probation or time sentencing as
a district attorney, because you're getting a plea bargain and
you're getting information about drugs or other rings or other
(29:26):
ved acts. That's one thing that registration as a sex
offender that should be there for their lifetime. Never let
them go.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
There has been this glorification of selling your body. And
I say that in all seriousness because we see these
young women who are influencers and I even struggle to
use that word because they have decided to go online
and they'll say, I'm going to have sex with one
thousand men in one day. I'm breaking the world record
(29:55):
for the number of men you can have sex with
in one day. This is a glorified People are sharing
it all over the internet.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Can you believe it?
Speaker 1 (30:03):
This woman did this? Then you've got another woman challenging her.
You have men lined up around the block to sleep
with someone who has just had sex with hundreds of
men before that boy, and they're check, oh, we checked
their ideas to make sure they're over seventeen.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
How did we get to this point.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Where, I mean, I always knew social media would become
an ugly place, ugly for multiple reasons, but the thought
of selling your body this way. But then these women,
they talk about how they've done this, They've broken world records,
they've gotten paid for this. Then they take you on
a tour of their multi million dollar home and say,
I'm glad that I have this large body count. That's
(30:46):
what they're calling it. Yes, if you don't know, these
women who are out there glorifying having sex with hundreds
of men in a day, call it their body count,
almost like they're proud of it.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
And they're making massive amounts of money.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Off of it.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean we have a heart problem.
You know when you when you look at you know,
sex addiction, which is you know, the same driving forces
is at alcohol addiction, drug addiction, gambling addiction. It's an addiction.
I mean, we've seen predators that will hit you know,
ten massage parlors looking for one girl, and you know,
(31:22):
you sit outside in the parking lot and you'll see
guys coming out in scrubs that are doctors. You'll see
professional people. It's not it's not what people think. And
they're utilizing these services. They know that those women probably
are not not getting treated right, and those women are
allowing them to do anything that they want to to them.
They're predators. It's a sex addiction, and we've we've become
(31:47):
complacent with this. It's just kind of been okay. You know,
look at the music industry, look at you know, look
at a retail industry, and look at look at clothes
for kids. You know, I see some of these kids
walk around and some of these outfits are like hey,
mom and dad, Yeah, I know, they didn't go into
the store and buy this. What's up with that? I mean,
(32:07):
that's not okay. But you know when you look at
some of the sports bars, I mean, somebody needs to
answer me. Why I need my food brought to me?
Was somebody that's got lingerie on? I mean, I've been
into locations in North Texas that, you know, just minus
the pole strip poll it's a strip club. I mean,
I don't even know how it got past our economic
development board and planning and zonning. I don't even know
(32:29):
how because a health department.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
My girls are middle and high school, and they've talked
about that it's hard to even buy clothes today. It's
hard to find clothes that meet dress code for their
schools because the clothes that they're making for young girls
are quite frankly, they're just slutty. They're just terrible, and
the shorts are too short, they've got these tops that
are crop tops. It is a you're right, it's a
(32:53):
societal problem, and it's hard to say, how, okay, how
do you solve this without the community solving it.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
It's not it's not a legal issue. It really is
a heart issue.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
So you have to come around as a community and
say we are going to change things. I think you
just blew my mind though, when you said in the
middle of the day, you've got professionals and people and
scrubs walking into these places and having sex with kids.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
I mean, I'm totally shocked and horrified.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Oh yeah, I mean I sat there with a actually
it was with a journalist. So she said, well, you
know who goes into these places? And I said, we'll
just sit here for a minute. And you know, we
had this guy, very good looking guy, obviously a doctor,
came out and he had his you know, scrubs on,
and he still had his hat on, and he said,
he's probably had it back to work. And she said,
what makes you say that? And I said, usually they
(33:39):
take their hat off when they're done for the day,
and you know, you just have you know, it's almost
like you have this half sick giggle because you got
I can't make this stuff up. It's like, this is
what you see and it is disturbing. And I don't
I don't know that we can really necessarily solve the
trafficking problem overnight, but I think we have to solve
what what we condone? What's our lever of Okay, you
(34:04):
know it's to me, it's not okay to go into
a sports bar where girls are you know, eighteen years old,
seventeen years old, eighteen years old, and you've got you know,
older men groveling over some young girl that's standing there
in a thong and a seafough bra. And I'm like,
this isn't a strip droid. It's supposed to be a
(34:26):
restaurant bar. So why why is this Okay, this is
in the middle of the suburb, This is right next
to big corporations and that parking lot's pack.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
And that's why we said, no, we shouldn't have little
kids at a drag club that is a sexual drag club.
You shouldn't have little kids dressed in drag having sexual
motions in front of adults. This is all of this.
It's not a discriminatory thing. It's to protect kids. We
should be able to talk reasonably about protecting kids. And
(34:56):
I think, like, as you're talking about this, I know
we're we're out of time. I just want to say
this last thing. As we're talking about this. I think
about a few weeks ago, we went to the White
House and they had the mugshots up of the people
who had raped and murdered people, and the news media
was outraged, saying, how could you possibly put these people's
(35:17):
faces on camera.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Well, maybe that's the answer. Maybe more of that is
the answer.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I mean, if this guy is so bold as to
go into this place in the middle of the day
and have sex with a child, probably actually has a
wife at home, then let's put his picture up. I
really think that's the point that you have to get
to to shame people and to saying, you know what,
it's so taboo, it's so wrong, it's so disgusting. I
(35:44):
never want to have my picture out there. I never
want to be that person that does it because obviously
they think it's okay, but I bet they wouldn't like
people to know they're doing it.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Well, I think that's true, and I think that it
comes back to bringing people back to center. Adults can
consent and do whatever they want to. You know, you
guys want to have a fetish ball. You guys want
to dress up in this exactly. You can consent, you're
an adult. Leave kids alone, and let's style this all
the way back that let's not even go to the
borderline age because you're too close to the age of
(36:15):
non consent. Leave kids alone. Let teenagers be teenagers. Leave
them alone. And you know when you look at a
parking lot that's full, that's going into an establishment, and
these guys are you know, falling all over and making
inappropriate You know, we know trafficking goes on in these places.
We've we've caught it, but watching their behavior, you know,
while they're on their lunch hour, and you're right, some
(36:36):
of them are married. I'm sure it's it's it's not okay.
And what we when we've got we've got a heart
problem where we think that it's okay to act lud
towards a child, act lud towards someone because we're in
a bar environment, act loud towards someone as they're walking
down the street or an ad or promoting that we
(36:58):
got to start peeling the back and realize and how dangerous,
that is, and you know online behavior, online grooming. Throw
the book at these guys. I know that they're making
big changes in Florida, big changes in Carolina. I know
they're making big changes all over with anti grooming bills.
And it's for this reason we have to start stopping
it at the bud and cutting these guys off and
(37:20):
making it known that this is not okay anymore. What
we were, it's not okay.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
There is no punishment harsh enough for someone who goes
after a child. And just so people understand, there are folks,
I mean, there was a congressman who was caught doing
this and protected. There are people all across the country
at all different walks of life who what they will
do is they will groom for years, two, three years
(37:49):
until that kid turns of consent age. But that child's
mind has already been as far as I'm concerned, that
grooming process is already abusive. They should already be held
account for that, because it doesn't matter that the kid
went from eighteen to nineteen sixteen to seventeen. Their mindset
is still a child, and they have manipulated them until
(38:10):
they got what they wanted. And it is twisted. It
is sick, and there's no punishment harsh enough.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Oh I agree. I mean when you look at the
numbers of students and teachers, at teachers having sexual inappropriate
sexual contact, grooming, child exploitation, just this last year, the
numbers are booming, you know, skyrocketing. But you know, if
we approach this as it being a problem for all
(38:36):
of us, and it's not one sided politically, and it
can't be weaponized, and I correct people all the time,
you know, And I've got people on both sides of
the fence fighting this right now, both Democrat and Republican.
And when they start lashing out of each other, I
just respond back to say, and what have you done?
When legislation have you passed? What have you done? Did
you get off the X Were you afraid of offending
(38:57):
the people that were at your table? I would say,
be offended. I protect kids. And that's what it comes
down to. We've got to that has to be that
is our number one commodity. That is our future of tomorrow.
That is how we are going to grow old peacefully.
That is our future. That's who's going to lead our country,
And this is how you're treating them and this is
what you're making okay and it's not okay.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Absolutely, Lisa from Shepherd's Watch, thank you, thank you for
what you do. Thank you absolutely, and thank you all
for joining us on this podcast, the Tutor Dixon Podcast.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
For this episode and others.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Go to Tutor Dixon podcast dot com, the iHeartRadio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you get your.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
Podcasts and join us next time. Have a blessed
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. We are going to
have a very interesting show for you today. If you're watching,
you can see me. You won't see my guest, but
you're going to hear my guest because we're going to
keep their identity a secret. Today I'm joined by the
director of Investigative Intelligence at the Shepherd's Watch Foundation. She
(00:22):
goes by Lisa for anonymity. Shepherd's Watch is a nonprofit
organization started by private investigators that target sex trafficking rings,
specifically focused in Texas As. I said, we're not going
to have Lisa's face on camera, but Lisa, I want
to welcome you to the podcast. Thank you for coming here.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
What you're doing is fascinating, but it's a world that
so few people really understand, and I think it's a
world that could affect any of us at any time.
But I think a lot of parents are sort of
naive to exactly what's happening. So can you explain to
us what you're doing and what you're seeing in the
United States?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Well, trafficking, of course, you would think that the numbers
were going down because we have a closed border, we
have a lot of education programs. We have a lot
of nonprofits that are working in the counter trafficking movement.
But what we're seeing is the numbers are actually going up.
We used to see about thirteen hundred plus sex ads
(01:26):
a day where they sell humans for sex, many of them.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
You say, you see these ads, Sorry to cut you off,
but where do you see that?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I mean, that's shocking to me.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Well, you'd be shocked to know that it's not just
on the dark web. I mean these are ads that
are easily accessible online. Some of these ads come through Facebook,
some of the ads come through TikTok, some of the
ads come through x platform. The ads are out there,
they're easily accessible. The numbers we have software, proprietary software
(02:01):
that basically goes out and monitors these platforms and pulls
in the ads for a different area, so we can
concentrate on different areas or regions in the United States
to find out, you know, look at the EBB and
flow of the trafficking patterns and to see what's considered
to be a hot spot. We create heat maps with
that intelligence to show the concentrated areas and if it's
(02:23):
moving and changing, like within Texas, but we averaged. Like
Dallas and surrounding counties, it was thirteen one hundred a
day and change, it grew to fourteen hundred, and by
January twenty twenty five we were at fifteen hundred sex
ads a day, and as of two weeks ago, I'm
at seventeen hundred. So my numbers are not going down,
(02:44):
they're going up, which tells me it is a supply
and demand issue. But there's a lot of money. There's
a lot of money connected to these sex trafficking operations.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
And these are people of all ages or I mean,
I don't even know.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I can't even apprehend when you say a sex ad,
I can't even comprehend what that is.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
So can you break that down for us what that
looks like?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
The ads are going to be anything from illicit massage businesses.
They're so popular now that there's more illicit massage businesses
than there are Starbucks. You can go into certain areas
of the Dallas Metroplex and there's one on every corner.
It's crazy. Sometimes you'll have two in the same retail
(03:31):
shopping center. And some of these illicit massage businesses are
actually right next to schools where there's kids, So you'll
have you know, sex addicts and predators walking in and
out of these locations right next to an area where
there's children crossing the parking lot. So you have those ads,
and those ads populate quite a few times a day.
(03:52):
And then you'll have sex trafficking rings. And our average
ring is about twenty girls, and those are going to
be cross platformed. And it can pertain to anything that
It could focus on ethnic trafficking, which might be you're
looking for a certain type of girl or nationality. It
can be straight, gay, trans trafficking, all ages, all ethnicities.
(04:20):
It's out there.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
So are these the people who are the victims the
people who are being trafficked?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
You said the.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Borders closed, so we would think it's going down. Is
it generally people that have been brought across the border.
Are we seeing people that are American citizens involved in
this too?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, it's both. You know, the numbers of the ethnic
rings have not gone down. My trafficking rings have not
gone down for us. It's still a supply and demand issue.
When you're looking at one hundred and twenty dollars for
every fifteen minutes for sex, that's a lot of money.
Average girl in a ring of twenty twenty five is
making about a million a year. They're not keeping that.
(05:01):
Of course, it's going back to transnational criminal organizations, but
so that's not going to stop. You have a lot
of money that's at stake. They have no interest in
slowing down. Then you can you also see the domestic
trafficking as well. I think the things that have kind
of disturbed us lately within the last year the trend
(05:23):
of the grooming online and focusing on autistic children and
bringing them into the trafficking rings, which was really disturbing
for us and heartbreaking. And those numbers have not decreased either.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
So unfortunately, how do they get those kids? I mean,
how do you get a domestic child? Because I call
me naive, but when I think about this, I think
of all of these hundreds of thousands of kids that
went missing, that came across the border that went missing,
and I think, well, maybe that's where these kids are.
But how are you recruiting kids that are, like you said,
(05:58):
autistic kids that are American citizen? Are they finding them online?
Are they are they putting out some sort of a
trigger for a kid that seems like, oh, I'm missing something.
I'll connect with these people. How do they get them?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Well, I think in domestic trafficking, it's a little bit
different than the migrant trafficking because most of those girls
are paying and boys are paying off homage to crossing over.
It's their penance for coming across the border to the cartels.
But with the domestic kids, the kids that are groomed online,
like on gaming discord, it's extremely dangerous and you know,
(06:32):
until we have a legislation that locks down the solid
pathway to put these guys in prison for the rest
of their life or registered as offenders for the rest
of their life, we're going to continue to have that issue.
They focus on the autistic children because they have a
problem understanding stranger danger. Very smart, very intelligent, just don't
(06:54):
have some of the social cues that probably puts them
in a easier victim category. But gaming discord is very dangerous.
We see that they've seen them focusing on kids at
as young as nine ten, so that is one way
to lure them away. They lure them away from their families.
They get them to digit their devices, digital devices, tracking devices.
(07:18):
Some of these kids were groomed for two three years
by people online. Sometimes it's a shorter period of time.
If they know that they're close to the age of
seventeen in the States where you can consent for sex
at sixteen or seventeen, then those predators will wait until
they turn over what's called illegal age. Even if a
(07:40):
child is mentally thirteen years old and emotional intelligence, this
is prime for them. That makes them an easy target.
Another way that they're getting the domestic kids is you know, listen,
I mean, when you're looking at recruiters being female, and
you've got friends that will say, hey, they're online friends,
(08:02):
meet me over here, or somebody they meet at a party,
or they meet it attract me. You'd be surprised how
they start luring these kids into these rings. And the
traffickers know, and they use other children, and they use
older teenagers as recruitment or recruiters for recruitment.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Then these kids are actually leaving home and they're disappearing
or what happens to them once they've been recruited.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Well, I mean, you're going to have multiple different scenarios.
You have foster children that get sucked into this vourtext.
You have children that come from broken homes, You have
kids that come from great homes. You have kids that
have drug problems. You have kids that did not have
drug problems that get put on drugs once they get
put into these rings. Kids that are preyed upon because
(08:47):
maybe they're convinced that they're trans or they're convinced that
they're homosexual, or by kids that have social awkwardness. They
find the weak link in the armor and that's where
they focus on them, the predators, and so they find
that weak link and that's what they do to lure
them into these rings. And once they're in these rings,
it's difficult for them to get out unless they make
(09:08):
an outcry or they have an opportunity to break away.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
And when you say they're in them, though, are they
sleeping there as the site? Is there a house? I mean,
this is so.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Hard for me to envision what exactly happens in a
trafficking ring.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Well, you'd be surprised what the trafficking rings are. I mean,
we have trafficking rings that are in million dollar neighborhoods,
gated communities, women that are held hostage, and IMBs that
live in the back quarters of an illicit massage business
that never leave there. We have kids that are living
in everyday homes. We have hotels, we have Airbnbs, we
(09:50):
have motels. We've seen motel operations running trafficking rings in
the same location for eight months. We have technolog where
we can see that information that they have actually been
in that location for eight months. So that's crazy to
me that you've got miners going in and out of
(10:11):
a motel and no alarm bells are going off. And
that's happening all over the United States. It's not just
in Texas.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
So how do you bust these how do you find them?
How do you get in there?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Well, what we do is we are considered to be informants,
so are heroes to us are going to be law
enforcement and first responders, fire marshals, I mean, all the
people that can go out there and make the difference.
What we do is we build what's called a target
pack and that information comes from a cross platform of
tools that we use technology and once we gather the
(10:48):
information of locating where the ring is, we have the
sex ads, we have the rings location, we set up
if it is a safe situation, we'll set up a
surveillance situation to gather information and intel and we hand
that off to law enforcement and they create the probable
cause for what they need to do so that they're
(11:08):
following all the correct pathways. You know, I and tees dotted.
The district attorneys know who we are, but they don't
know what cases we work on. But basically we just
we sit here and we support law enforcement with as
much information that we can give them so that they
can do their job. Because an NGO person does not
have jurisdiction to so called buster rings, so that's a fallacy.
(11:32):
You don't ever want to do anything that's going to
interfere with an investigation or throw an investigation because of
your involvement. We let law enforcement do their job. They're
very capable, they're very smart, they're very talented. They have
all the right tools and equipment and the people and
the training. What we have to do is help shorten
that gap of time because these are so prevalent and
(11:54):
in so many different places. Think of Shepherd's Watch walking
into the minefield with the flash going there's a mine,
there's a mine, there's a mine, And that's what we do.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Stick around.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
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Speaker 3 (13:30):
Now stay tuned, We've got more after this.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
The Attorney General's Office in Texas says that there were
one point six million online commercial sex ads in twenty
twenty and they believe two hundred and twenty three thoy
nine hundred and ten children were involved. How how could
that number be so high in just one state and
what does it look like nationwide?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Well, I think that the tech this is replicated you
know all over the United States. You know, the trafficking
rings don't stop here. So you know, if we see
a big ring, especially one that's tied to a criminal organization,
it never stays in Texas. There will be trafficking. That's
also you know, coming out of Texas to Cincinnati, Ohio,
(14:18):
It'll go to Nashville, it'll go to Atlanta, It'll go
to Florida, California, New York, New Jersey, it goes all
over the United States. I think Texas has had such
a problem because we have been a border state I
think we are a humongous state with a lot of
revenue coming in and out. We have a lot of
tourism that comes in and out, and we have you know,
our share of TCOs here. So that's going to create
(14:42):
a pea tradition and environment for this to grow. And
I do think that there's effort being made, but unfortunately,
they have counterintelligence moves, and they they have the bodies
and the rings and the money, so you're you're always
playing catch up with these guys.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
We always hear about sex trafficking increasing around Super Bowl
time and big sporting events.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Is that something that you watch for.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yes, and that's one thousand percent correct. And the reason
for that is anytime that you have a conference, an event,
a rodeo, you're going to see a big spike number.
Even NASCAR baseball games, football game, soccer, you're going to
see a spike in those numbers. Unfortunately, there's people that
(15:33):
you know, that's the predilection is you know, you know,
younger boys, younger girls. It's very very sad.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
What is the age, I mean, what's the average age
for someone who's in one of these rings.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
The average age of what we see is anywhere between
fourteen and seventeen. It can go all the way up
to you know, twenty through twenty four. By the time
they're twenty five, they've kind of aged out. You know,
we see online code when you talk about where are
these people? Where are these children? You know, we use
(16:08):
when I talk about the counter intelligence moves. I'm not
going to give too much information here because I don't
want to set them up. But we do watch the ads.
We do watch the lingo. We do watch the patterns
of how they traffic and what they put into the ads.
It was, you know, maybe five six years ago. It
was easily identified, more so then than it is now
(16:30):
because they got smarter as we increased the counter trafficking movement.
They got more creative on where they place these ads
and have kids, how they place the ads, what lingo
they use. They cover them with their face with an emoji.
You you know, you don't see the kids nude. You'll
see them in a bathing suit. It's it's very interesting,
(16:53):
but they're still there. A lot of times the kids
are buried within the rings. So you might see an
ad for somebody that's so called twenty two years old,
but embedded in that ring as a fourteen year old.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Good grief. So do you ever have parents come to
you and say, we're looking for our child.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Have you seen them all the time?
Speaker 3 (17:13):
How does that work? Tell me about that?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Well, we have people who have you intercepted communications between
their child and a predator and you know a lot
of times they have filed missing kid report or if
a child is seventeen, they might be considered a runaway
versus an active missing case. We are moving towards working
(17:39):
with law enforcement. A lot of law enforcement officers are
very cooperative with us so that we can mark these
kids as endangered. If it's a kid that hasn't inhaler,
if it's a kid that's you know, spectrum disorder, if
it's a kid that has a disability, we will immediately
have been marked endangered. If they're a minor, they get
marked endangered. That's critical when it comes to looking for
(18:00):
for missing children. If they are on that age, you know,
delimiter of seventeen, sometimes you get a little bit more
pushback because they are of the age of consent. So
you know, that's where it's important to give up the
conversations or give up the reasons of why you think
they're being trafficked. But you know, we get calls all
the time. It could be anything from the grooming and
(18:21):
exploitation online that's coming from somebody that's trying to traffic
a kid, to you know, parents that maybe a child
has had a substance abuse problem, maybe they are a runaway,
maybe they're a foster kid that's you know, constantly running away,
or maybe it's a kid that this is just absolutely
not their normal behavior. They would not turn off their phone,
(18:43):
they would not leave and not contact mom and dad.
We get all those calls. I mean, it's it's been
a crazy wild bride in the last two years.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
So is it oftentimes a parent who's been told by
the police your child ran away.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
There's you know, this is a this is their choice.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
We're not able to chase them down and they go
to you and say, no, this wasn't their choice. Something
weird happened.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yes, I mean, because you have to understand that, you
know that there's laws that they have to bude by
two So, I mean, we can get mad at law enforcement,
but what we really need to be doing is put
pushing back on legislation. Seventeen year olds are still in
high school. So you know, when you talk about the
age of seventeen, what are the two things that seventeen
year olds can do? Well, guess what is to be
tried for capital murder and consent for sex. You can't vote, right, Oh,
(19:30):
you can drive, you can't vote, you can't get an apartment,
you can't get a credit card, you can't join a military.
There's all these things you can't do at seventeen, but
then you can do these things over here. So that
makes no sense to me. I mean, this is high
school age, and I think you think.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
So you you've been talking about seventeen, but seventeen, I
mean you still it's still illegal to traffic a seventeen
year old. It's just that they can get away with
it because.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
They can say they're agreeing to.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
This or how does that? I mean, why is that?
Is that the magic number for what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
It's a tricky age and there's a lot of seventeen
year olds on the street for that reason, because you know,
when it's a child, they can't consent. So there's there's
no way that that's legal to have sex with a child,
and that's going to be under the age of seventeen
at seventeen, if they are saying that they're consenting, they
have to make an outcry as a victim because you
(20:23):
can't go into the clause of they you know, are
not of legal age. So that's when you're really proving
a trafficking case. But we do need to move on legislation.
You know. I'm not saying that the seventeen year olds
that are coming out of high school to go off
and have a college sweetheart, you know, and we're starting
to enact you know, statutory rape laws and things like that.
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that if it's
(20:44):
a trafficking situation and they're seventeen, that should be considered
a minor And I think that that would really actually
boost a lot of issues with the calls that we
get for seventeen year olds that have either been targeted
or they are missing.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
So how do you do that because we've got Democrats,
I mean, I've even heard some Republicans lawmakers who are saying,
we want to reduce the name of the age of consent.
So does that have to be a totally separate law
that says if you are a teenager and you, how
(21:20):
do you differentiate between being trafficked and.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Consent with a boyfriend?
Speaker 1 (21:27):
I mean, does that Is there a way to write
that law so that you can protect these kids.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
I'd really like to know why they want to reduce
that age.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
I agree, and this is a migra.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
That's an issue, and it shouldn't be Democrat or Republican.
I've never known a sex predator to ask a child
how their parents voted. I've never known them to ask
a victim how did you vote before they rape them? So,
in my book, at seventeen, at sixteen years old, these
are still kids. And if you know, you can't sit
(22:00):
here and tell me that it's okay for them to
run around to be trafficked, you know, or to consent
to being raped, which is what it is in my
book versus you know, then why aren't you letting them vote? So,
I mean, we have to be really careful with this.
And I don't know why anybody would want to move
that age bracket, because you know, we have a lot
(22:20):
of teenagers out there that are being trafficked right now,
and it's for this very reason. It's for this very argument,
you know, especially if it's somebody that's on the spectrum,
you know, that has the emotional intelligence of a thirteen
year old. That's just I can't wrap my mind around that.
Why anybody would want to argue that. I think that
we should be protecting our kids. Let them graduate from
high school, let them make decisions after that. I mean,
(22:43):
are you going to have cases where it's going to
be tough because you don't have an outcry for a victim? Sure,
you know we're going to bang our heads up against
the lall on those, but we're never going to stop
trying and we're never going to get there.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
It seems like there's a lot of shame around this issue,
and the United States doesn't talk about it much. I mean,
I don't hear it. I'm in the political world. I
don't even hear it from Republicans who are very vocal
about protecting kids coming out and saying we have a
massive trafficking problem in this country. We're I think we're
second in the nation for sex tracks or second in
(23:18):
the world for sex trafficking.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Isn't that right?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah? Yeah, you know, I mean, if you think about it,
I mean, it used to be sex tourism took place
in the Philippines and Thailand, and I guarantee you that
it takes place here now and it is you know,
and I don't know. I think the only the most
simplistic way that I can put this is we have
a heart problem. We have a heart problem with humanity.
(23:44):
Why in the world would we want not want to
protect our kids one thousand percent from this happening to them?
And why would we ever want to protect somebody that
would be a sexual predator to our children. That is
something we have a heart problem. We have to change
that mindset.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
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up after this. You brought up autism, and I think
that we've started to see in the past year that
there has been There are people out there exploiting that
(25:20):
group of children for multiple different reasons, but they're.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Very I think you made a good point. They can be.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Influenced because part of what they deal with as an
autistic human is that they don't always understand social cues
and what someone is trying to They don't perceive what
the next step is necessarily in a relationship, and that's
where someone who is dangerous can trick that person into
doing something else.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Do you think that we.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Have as a society been too lax about protecting the
kids that are the most vulnerable too. I mean, it's
like there's this attitude of kids can make their own choices.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Kids don't have to be protected.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Kids are just as mature as adults, and regardless of
whether you have autism or you are just the average
sixteen year old kid. I mean, in the state of Michigan,
I can't even get my kids medical records after they
turn twelve years old. They have to allow me to
see their medical records. Why are we at this point
(26:24):
where we are trying to force kids into being little
adults when they're just not ready for that.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Well, we've stripped away there in a sense, we've stripped
away their ability to be children. We're trying to fast
track them growing up. And so you know, in one sense,
we want to make them autonomous at the age of
you know, twelve and thirteen years old, and I think
that's insanity. You know, why aren't you having them marry
at twelve and thirteen? Right? I mean, this is insanity. So,
(26:51):
you know, we have a heart problem. We have to
peel this back and dial this back on so many
different layers. But if you continue to push kids to adults,
their minds can't wrap around. They're not developed mentally, emotionally,
spiritually at that point in their life. To make those
types of decisions, and that's why historically we haven't given
(27:12):
them that platform to make those decisions. They don't have
the emotional intelligence at twelve and thirteen as the same
to somebody that's eighteen years old. It's just not there.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
That's funny because that's scientifically proven.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
However, people don't want to talk about scientifically proven facts
when it's for some reason inconvenient to them.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
And there is.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
I mean, you make a great point, why aren't they
getting married? But I mean, if you're an adult at twelve,
why aren't you going out into the workforce?
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Why do you still have at least six more years.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Of school left? It's just crazy, it's insanity. How do
we flip this back? What happens when some of these
kids are pulled out of these rings? What is the
torture that they've been through? What is the torture that
they go through to try to recover from this?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Well? You know, I think that that's a big question
for victim restoration people and re align with a lot
of those guys, and they have a very tough job.
You're having to basically rebuild someone that's broken. I would
say that psychologically, mentally, emotionally. You know, there's some things
there that are going to take some time to rebuild.
(28:24):
You know, if you get somebody that's been trafficked for
a year, you probably have depending upon that person or
that child, you probably have a better chance of recovery
than someone that's been trafficked for you know, five years,
ten years, that's a long road. I've looked at kids,
you know, dead pin in the face, and I've looked
(28:44):
at adults that were trafficked for you know, five ten years.
It's a very blank stare. It's very sad. I mean,
we've killed their soul. So you know, we should be
treating this topic with the utmost full force shield around
these kids, and we're not doing it. And I don't
(29:05):
know why. I don't know why we're not putting the
legislation out there. I don't know why we're not upholding
to it. And I don't know why we're giving any
wiggle room when it comes to the registration of sex
offenders that should never be removed off that table. You
want to play with parole probation or time sentencing as
a district attorney, because you're getting a plea bargain and
you're getting information about drugs or other rings or other
(29:26):
ved acts. That's one thing that registration as a sex
offender that should be there for their lifetime. Never let
them go.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
There has been this glorification of selling your body. And
I say that in all seriousness because we see these
young women who are influencers and I even struggle to
use that word because they have decided to go online
and they'll say, I'm going to have sex with one
thousand men in one day. I'm breaking the world record
(29:55):
for the number of men you can have sex with
in one day. This is a glorified People are sharing
it all over the internet.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Can you believe it?
Speaker 1 (30:03):
This woman did this? Then you've got another woman challenging her.
You have men lined up around the block to sleep
with someone who has just had sex with hundreds of
men before that boy, and they're check, oh, we checked
their ideas to make sure they're over seventeen.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
How did we get to this point.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Where, I mean, I always knew social media would become
an ugly place, ugly for multiple reasons, but the thought
of selling your body this way. But then these women,
they talk about how they've done this, They've broken world records,
they've gotten paid for this. Then they take you on
a tour of their multi million dollar home and say,
I'm glad that I have this large body count. That's
(30:46):
what they're calling it. Yes, if you don't know, these
women who are out there glorifying having sex with hundreds
of men in a day, call it their body count,
almost like they're proud of it.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
And they're making massive amounts of money.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Off of it.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean we have a heart problem.
You know when you when you look at you know,
sex addiction, which is you know, the same driving forces
is at alcohol addiction, drug addiction, gambling addiction. It's an addiction.
I mean, we've seen predators that will hit you know,
ten massage parlors looking for one girl, and you know,
(31:22):
you sit outside in the parking lot and you'll see
guys coming out in scrubs that are doctors. You'll see
professional people. It's not it's not what people think. And
they're utilizing these services. They know that those women probably
are not not getting treated right, and those women are
allowing them to do anything that they want to to them.
They're predators. It's a sex addiction, and we've we've become
(31:47):
complacent with this. It's just kind of been okay. You know,
look at the music industry, look at you know, look
at a retail industry, and look at look at clothes
for kids. You know, I see some of these kids
walk around and some of these outfits are like hey,
mom and dad, Yeah, I know, they didn't go into
the store and buy this. What's up with that? I mean,
(32:07):
that's not okay. But you know when you look at
some of the sports bars, I mean, somebody needs to
answer me. Why I need my food brought to me?
Was somebody that's got lingerie on? I mean, I've been
into locations in North Texas that, you know, just minus
the pole strip poll it's a strip club. I mean,
I don't even know how it got past our economic
development board and planning and zonning. I don't even know
(32:29):
how because a health department.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
My girls are middle and high school, and they've talked
about that it's hard to even buy clothes today. It's
hard to find clothes that meet dress code for their
schools because the clothes that they're making for young girls
are quite frankly, they're just slutty. They're just terrible, and
the shorts are too short, they've got these tops that
are crop tops. It is a you're right, it's a
(32:53):
societal problem, and it's hard to say, how, okay, how
do you solve this without the community solving it.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
It's not it's not a legal issue. It really is
a heart issue.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
So you have to come around as a community and
say we are going to change things. I think you
just blew my mind though, when you said in the
middle of the day, you've got professionals and people and
scrubs walking into these places and having sex with kids.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
I mean, I'm totally shocked and horrified.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Oh yeah, I mean I sat there with a actually
it was with a journalist. So she said, well, you
know who goes into these places? And I said, we'll
just sit here for a minute. And you know, we
had this guy, very good looking guy, obviously a doctor,
came out and he had his you know, scrubs on,
and he still had his hat on, and he said,
he's probably had it back to work. And she said,
what makes you say that? And I said, usually they
(33:39):
take their hat off when they're done for the day,
and you know, you just have you know, it's almost
like you have this half sick giggle because you got
I can't make this stuff up. It's like, this is
what you see and it is disturbing. And I don't
I don't know that we can really necessarily solve the
trafficking problem overnight, but I think we have to solve
what what we condone? What's our lever of Okay, you
(34:04):
know it's to me, it's not okay to go into
a sports bar where girls are you know, eighteen years old,
seventeen years old, eighteen years old, and you've got you know,
older men groveling over some young girl that's standing there
in a thong and a seafough bra. And I'm like,
this isn't a strip droid. It's supposed to be a
(34:26):
restaurant bar. So why why is this Okay, this is
in the middle of the suburb, This is right next
to big corporations and that parking lot's pack.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
And that's why we said, no, we shouldn't have little
kids at a drag club that is a sexual drag club.
You shouldn't have little kids dressed in drag having sexual
motions in front of adults. This is all of this.
It's not a discriminatory thing. It's to protect kids. We
should be able to talk reasonably about protecting kids. And
(34:56):
I think, like, as you're talking about this, I know
we're we're out of time. I just want to say
this last thing. As we're talking about this. I think
about a few weeks ago, we went to the White
House and they had the mugshots up of the people
who had raped and murdered people, and the news media
was outraged, saying, how could you possibly put these people's
(35:17):
faces on camera.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Well, maybe that's the answer. Maybe more of that is
the answer.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I mean, if this guy is so bold as to
go into this place in the middle of the day
and have sex with a child, probably actually has a
wife at home, then let's put his picture up. I
really think that's the point that you have to get
to to shame people and to saying, you know what,
it's so taboo, it's so wrong, it's so disgusting. I
(35:44):
never want to have my picture out there. I never
want to be that person that does it because obviously
they think it's okay, but I bet they wouldn't like
people to know they're doing it.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Well, I think that's true, and I think that it
comes back to bringing people back to center. Adults can
consent and do whatever they want to. You know, you
guys want to have a fetish ball. You guys want
to dress up in this exactly. You can consent, you're
an adult. Leave kids alone, and let's style this all
the way back that let's not even go to the
borderline age because you're too close to the age of
(36:15):
non consent. Leave kids alone. Let teenagers be teenagers. Leave
them alone. And you know when you look at a
parking lot that's full, that's going into an establishment, and
these guys are you know, falling all over and making
inappropriate You know, we know trafficking goes on in these places.
We've we've caught it, but watching their behavior, you know,
while they're on their lunch hour, and you're right, some
(36:36):
of them are married. I'm sure it's it's it's not okay.
And what we when we've got we've got a heart
problem where we think that it's okay to act lud
towards a child, act lud towards someone because we're in
a bar environment, act loud towards someone as they're walking
down the street or an ad or promoting that we
(36:58):
got to start peeling the back and realize and how dangerous,
that is, and you know online behavior, online grooming. Throw
the book at these guys. I know that they're making
big changes in Florida, big changes in Carolina. I know
they're making big changes all over with anti grooming bills.
And it's for this reason we have to start stopping
it at the bud and cutting these guys off and
(37:20):
making it known that this is not okay anymore. What
we were, it's not okay.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
There is no punishment harsh enough for someone who goes
after a child. And just so people understand, there are folks,
I mean, there was a congressman who was caught doing
this and protected. There are people all across the country
at all different walks of life who what they will
do is they will groom for years, two, three years
(37:49):
until that kid turns of consent age. But that child's
mind has already been as far as I'm concerned, that
grooming process is already abusive. They should already be held
account for that, because it doesn't matter that the kid
went from eighteen to nineteen sixteen to seventeen. Their mindset
is still a child, and they have manipulated them until
(38:10):
they got what they wanted. And it is twisted. It
is sick, and there's no punishment harsh enough.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Oh I agree. I mean when you look at the
numbers of students and teachers, at teachers having sexual inappropriate
sexual contact, grooming, child exploitation, just this last year, the
numbers are booming, you know, skyrocketing. But you know, if
we approach this as it being a problem for all
(38:36):
of us, and it's not one sided politically, and it
can't be weaponized, and I correct people all the time,
you know, And I've got people on both sides of
the fence fighting this right now, both Democrat and Republican.
And when they start lashing out of each other, I
just respond back to say, and what have you done?
When legislation have you passed? What have you done? Did
you get off the X Were you afraid of offending
(38:57):
the people that were at your table? I would say,
be offended. I protect kids. And that's what it comes
down to. We've got to that has to be that
is our number one commodity. That is our future of tomorrow.
That is how we are going to grow old peacefully.
That is our future. That's who's going to lead our country,
And this is how you're treating them and this is
what you're making okay and it's not okay.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Absolutely, Lisa from Shepherd's Watch, thank you, thank you for
what you do. Thank you absolutely, and thank you all
for joining us on this podcast, the Tutor Dixon Podcast.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
For this episode and others.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Go to Tutor Dixon podcast dot com, the iHeartRadio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you get your.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
Podcasts and join us next time. Have a blessed
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