May 26, 2025 • 35 mins
In this episode, Ryan interviews Alex Thompson, national political correspondent for Axios and co-author of the new book 'Original Sin.' They discuss the Biden's political ethos, the evolution of Jill Biden's role, the controversial vice presidency of Kamala Harris, the implications of the Biden family business, and the dynamics of media accountability and press relations. The conversation provides insights into the inner workings of the Biden administration and the political landscape surrounding it. It's a Numbers Game is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Monday & Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to a Numbers Game Podcast, Ryan Kurdoski, Happy
Memorial Day. I hope you are all having a wonderful
Memorial Day, whatever you're doing, having a barbecue or going
to the racetrack like my family always did, being degenerates.
I'm just joking. We didn't. We weren't that degenerate anyway.
I hope you guys have a great Memorial Day. Thank
you for listening on this holiday. I am exhausted because
(00:23):
I spent up. I was up two nights in a
row at three o'clock in the morning each night reading
Original Sin President Biden's Decline, It's cover up and his
disastrous choice to run again by Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson.
It's a good book, really good pick. I mean, it
kept me up because it was it wasn't bad. It
was actually a patren or. It was quick and there
were things that I learned there. And I want to
(00:44):
talk about the book in this episode special Memorial the
episode maybe you're looking for summer reading. I actually do
recommend this spoke to people. I do. I know there's
a lot of anger by conservatives around, especially Jake Tapper.
And the scene ends coverage over Joe Biden. I understand,
and very few people have been as wronged by CNN
as I have, and I can still get past it.
So you can get past it read this book. Certain
(01:06):
things that I think were super interesting in this book
that I just I'm kind of blown away from one
one of the people involved in Joe Biden's like to
make Joe Biden look better and was with Joe Biden
frequently to do all of his videos with Steven Spielberg.
(01:27):
I never knew that. I did not hear. Maybe it
was reported, I don't know, but Steven Spielberg et director Jaws,
you know, Stephen Freakin Spielberg was involved in trying to
make Joe Biden look better because he couldn't record videos.
I found that absolutely fascinating. I also found it fascinating
which Democratic politicians would go on record to talk about it.
(01:49):
Governor Massachusetts would go sat there and went on record.
A senator from Colorado sat there, went on record and said,
I knew Joe Biden wasn't well. I think, in my
personal opinion, they're underplaying how concerned they actually were. Also
super interesting and fascinating part of the book, the Colorado senator.
(02:10):
I forget which one it was now because I didn't
make a big note about it. But the Colorado Senator
sat there and said, who keeps pushing Joe Biden to
the left? And it seemed like he was well aware
that where Biden Biden was doing as president wasn't always
in the Joe Biden lexicona what he did policy wise,
(02:32):
and a lot of the blame is put on Ron Klein.
Ron Klain's main purpose was to do as much as
what the progressive caucus in Congress wanted as possible. It
was always to lean to the far left, which I
think was fascinating because conservatives what always say, I understand
Biden said he was a moderate for so many years.
Obvious there was this leaning evolution of Biden to the left,
(02:55):
but it was hard left on things like immigration, to
the left of Obama on immigration. Who was responsible for that?
Just my orkis is there something in the White House?
It turns out it was Ron and Klean. Super fascinating. Also,
super interesting part of the book was I'm saying the
word super too much, so I'm going to stop that.
But really interesting part of the book was when Biden
(03:16):
said in the debate, we defeated medicaire the famous line, right.
Dana Bash looked over at Jake Tapper, passed him a
note and said, he just lost this election. Which is
great because I've never actually heard what the people in
the debate moderators are saying to each other while it's
going on, and they are communicating, So that was really fascinating.
(03:39):
The other thing that I wanted, I thought was highlighted,
was when they brought all the Democratic centers together. This
is post debate when Biden is down seven points nationally
and he's going to lose not only in the swing states,
but also in Maine, in Minnesota, in New Mexico, and
the governors of these states are saying, you're going to
lose New Mexico, You're going to lose Maine, all the
rest of it. John Fetterman gets up and starts screaming
(04:04):
at his fellow Democratic senators and saying, how dare you,
how dare you betray a great president? How dare you
do this to him? And it was and John Fetterman
was one of only five Democrats in the room, along
with Tammy Duckworth and like one or two other ones
who sat there and John Fedneron was the most vocal
(04:24):
supporter post debate, which was fascinating because Fetterman, I guess
because he suffered a seizure, but was willing to overlook
everything after we knew everything. Fetterman was completely complicit, and
I don't care that he cannot operate as a person.
We need to support him. Loved that. Loved that. Only governor,
(04:47):
by the way, to sit there democratic governor post debate
to say you need to drop out right now, ned
La Mom from Connecticut, super moderate governor. Stop saying super
moderate governor of Connecticut. Thought that was really really interesting.
And the relationship between Kamala and Joe is so deep
because Joe never wanted Kamala Harris, and Kamala Harris her
(05:12):
loyalty to Biden it had a ceiling. She was loyal
to a point, but she wouldn't put herself out there
if it meant hurting her. So much so that at
the debate, at a debate watch party, one of the
Democratic donors looked at Doug and Hooff, Kamala's husband, and
started screaming at him, you destroyed democracy, You destroyed democracy tonight.
(05:37):
I was stunned. The book has a lot. The authors
are getting scrutinized a lot, as they should. In some cases,
there's a lot of questions the authors should answer. Luckily
for us, one of the two authors, Alex Thompson, a
very very good reporter who reported on Biden's health and
well being long before the mainstream media did, is with
(05:57):
me today. So coming up next is author of the
book Original Sin, Alex Thompson. I am one of only
two conservatives that have gotten to interview one of the
authors besides Megan Kelly. So stay tuned. You're not going
to want to miss what I ask him. Alex Thompson
is the national political correspondent for Axios and the co
(06:19):
author of the book Original Sin, President Biden's decline, It's
cover up, and his disastrous choice to run for president again.
Right here, Alex, you ruin my sleep. I was up
for two nights till three o'clock in the morning reading
this book, getting everything down, getting notes and questions. It
is a page turner. It is genuinely a very very
well written, compelling, even sympathetic book. At times, it really
(06:41):
was very good. Thank you so, and I know that
conservative media is definitely having its moment with you guys,
But I don't want to ask. I don't want to.
I want since it's not to makeing Kelly interview. She's fine,
but not an interview. So my first question about like
the book, because I want to get to the bones
of the book, is when you, as someone who's written
a book before, when you write a book, when you
reach out to the publisher, you the publisher asked, who
(07:04):
is the audience? Who was the audience in mind when
you were writing this book, because a lot of times
it seems like it's for a democratic audience.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
M h. Is that you mean that this You mean
this book? You think it's very democratic your book?
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Yeah. No, I actually think our intention, and I don't
know if we achieved it, was that it actually would
be both the right and the left. We thought that basically,
we pitched that liberals are going to be sort of
disoriented and want to know how what what happened? And
our hope was that conservatives, even though a lot of
(07:40):
conservatives obviously feel deep frustration because they feel they had
been saying that, hey, he was in decline for a
long time and felt that that was not being covered
aggressively by much of the mainstream media. We thought that
still conservatives would be interested in the behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
The Highncy stories are wild. I touched upon them. When
the donor's yelling at Doug m Hoff saying you ruined democracy,
I was like, whoa and John.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
That was director Rob Regner.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
So, you know, we were hoping that even the Republicans,
I think, feel a little dis ilusions and also feel like, uh,
you know, I think that the behind the scenes details
of how the Democratic Party covered up for Biden for
so long. We thought that and we said this, I mean,
this was literally our pitch to the publisher that this
(08:35):
is not a right leaning book or a left leaning book,
Like the audience is not necessarily left lean or right.
We think there's good arguments to both sides to be interested.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I think that maybe because all the sources were mostly
all Democrats, I think that maybe that's why there's a
left leaning comp Like what Manners was speaking, I noticed that,
but I just wanted to know your opinion on that.
So there is Joe Biden, Donald Trump have something very
much comment, which is their internal ethos, is that they
believe that they are outsiders. They believe that the media,
(09:06):
the leads the establishment hate them, and that everything that
they have accomplished is in defiance of those forces. Can
you describe the ethos, because Biden almost is like a
Kennedy esque mentality where he created his own legend, like
Jackie created the legend of Camelot and then all the
living Kennedy's just assumed it. Biden created a legend of
(09:27):
himself and then everyone just assumed it. Could you describe that?
In the book?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Yeah, we even call it became a Biden theology, and
I'd say the first commandment of that theology is that
Biden always gets back up. Biden is always counted out,
and he always comes back and proves his critics wrong.
I'd say, there, you know, there's also parts of the theology,
and the same way there are with you know, with
Camelot and with whatever you know, I don't know if
(09:52):
you want to call it mag a court or something,
but with Trump that there are there are parts of
the theology that you know, if you take a set back,
certainly ring faults and you know, and you know, for
for instance, one person very close to the family, they
they basically said, you know, parts of the like parts
(10:13):
of the tenants of the Biden theology are like, you
know that hunters, you know that that Hunter's sobriety is stable,
that Joe cares more about his family than his ambition.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
That Jill is like a very warm and nice person, and.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Uh and and they repeat these things as if they
are just obvious facts.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
And don't call people fat, which Joe did at the
campaign Hampshire, which was so fascinating.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
But but the Biden press team insisted to us that
he didn't.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
So I think it's on camera.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I have to fact check you there. Uh.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I think I don't remember what their spin was. I
think they they were like, I can't remember what word
they said he said, but it was obvious, like a.
But yes, the rule, the other Biden rule of don't
call fat people fat, which you know in some ways
is being polite, but the other, the dark side of
that saying is ignore inconvenient truths.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
So the evolution of Jill Biden in your book is
fascinating because you say in the beginning of the book
that Jill did not like being a politician's wife, or
she wasn't a natural, She wasn't she didn't because she worked.
I did not know that she was a professor or
even while she was second Lady, and she all of
a sudden goes from being kind of in the background
and begrudgingly in the background to being a quasi chief
(11:44):
of staff and having her own team run the large
segments of the White House. That was why did she change?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Great question, I think.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Some people, and I guess there's no one clean answer,
according to people that i've that have talked to her,
or that worked for or our sources within the White House.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
And to your point, you know, she she taught college
even through the presidency. She's still taught at a community college.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
And I think what people around her say is that
something seemed to change over the course of the vice
presidency and then certainly in the intervening years post the
vice presidency, And some people felt that she fell in
love with the life and you know, the Vogue covers
(12:31):
and sort of you know, the elevated style and elegance.
And I also think that she definitely deeply loves Joe.
And I think I remember I remember someone said to
me that, you know, Joe Biden is nothing if not
for this, and saw him sort of in the wilderness
(12:52):
in those years seventeen eighteen and saw that this gave
him purpose and that you know, it was.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Everything he ever wanted.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
I think I think both the combination of falling in
love with life but also this, you know, it's sort
of like the dark side of loyalty and love, right,
is that it can't you know, you can end up
justifying more and more and so And to your point,
the early signs that she is going to be a
(13:19):
very as someone in the White House put it there,
several people in the whitest put one of the most
powerful first ladies in American history. The signs are there
at the beginning of twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, when her
top aide, a man named Anthony Bernall, is made one.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Of the Your characterizations of him, by the way, are hysterical. Sorry,
they're so funny. I could picture him, Evefough. I've never
seen him or heard him before. I was like, oh,
I know this person.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
He's he's certainly there is a certain archetype both as
a person in a DC sort of DC like advanced
man operative right.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Anyway, he he becomes one.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Of the deputy campaign managers on the campaign, very unusual,
and then once they go into the White House, he
becomes sort of like a shadow like personnel officer, placing
this person and that person, you know, and his main
coda is like loyalty above everything, and there is there
(14:16):
is no greater virtue and no greater sin than being
even perceived as disloyal. And he becomes seen internally as
sort of loyalty to police. And he is constantly in
the First Lady's ear. This person is this, this person
is this. And so when he and he becomes incredibly
important in the president's scheduling, he's sitting in the president
(14:37):
scheduling meetings, and you know, like basically the conversation ender
is He'll be like, Jill won't like this, you know, yea,
and then and the conversation's over. And because if you object,
then maybe, oh, is that because you're disloyal, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
And the way that she eventually.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
The combination of them two sort of slowly pushed out
anyone seen as disloyal and sort of placed all people
that they trusted, you know, I think they you know,
people have said that both if she was like the
most powerful, one of the most powerful slaves, he was
certainly probably the most powerful First Lady chief of staff.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
We've maybe ever seen.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, so you brought the Vogue covers. And that's interesting
because I remember hearing from my friends in Capitol Hill
and in various positions that that was a big contention
because Kamala Harris got a Vogue cover before Jill Biden,
which is not traditional that we've never had a female
vice president before. And Jill, Jill never seemed to like
(15:44):
Kamala Harris, she never trusted her because of the original thing.
I was calling basically Biden a racist during the debate,
and you made an illusion that she, you know, Forgabe
and not forget YadA, YadA, YadA, and Biden didn't really
want her. He woned Gretchen Whitmer and was really pushing
to her. Do you think that he ever did? And
(16:05):
he was by incredibly destructive to her presidential campaign, and
you characterizes her being more loyal to him than him
to her. Do you think that he at the end
of his presidency regretted picking her?
Speaker 3 (16:18):
No, because it's like one of those things like a
president can't ever say they regretted it, right, It's such
a consement decision. Do I think there were I can
tell you this, there were a lot of feelings among
Biden's top staff that regretted picking her. I remember while
I was reporting this book, the book's called original Sin.
They were like, no, no, no, the original sin is
not him running again, it's picking Kamala Harris because they
(16:40):
did not have confidence that she would be a good
candidate or that she could win.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Right well, even when they realized top Democrats realize something's
wrong with Joe Biden, we may need to replace him,
their initial thing is, let's get Gretchen Whitmer. Her name
comes up far more frequently in the early conversations, and
it's only the Black caucus that's It's like, you're not
going to pick You're not going to side stuff the
first black female president, female vice president for the nomination.
(17:06):
What did top Democrats see in her as a liability
early on? That they knew about his way before? I
think most other ones did well.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
She ran a disastrous twenty twenty presidential campaign despite massive
hype and you know, big crowds early on. She didn't
even she had to drop out early and didn't have
to go to Iowa.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
You can see the.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Revolving door of staff that have gone through her office
back when she was a state attorney general. She'd also
really with the exception of like twenty ten attorney general race,
she never won a tough race, and that twenty ten
attorney general race she barely won. She I mean, she
underperformed the rest of the ticket.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Two points I think are a point and a half
in California, which is good for a Democrat.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
And a lot of people thought that, you know, she
wasn't especially nice to staff and didn't seem to get
in the weeds of the substance. And I just think
also I think, you know, I think Democrats, especially this
generation of Democrats, which remembers sort of like you know,
(18:12):
Northeast liberal, were worried about you know, San Francisco liberal, right,
and what's a different kind of liberal, Yeah, but a
similar sort of you know, a similar can can be
sort of seen. Especially it's a different sort of liberal,
especially on cultural issues, which you saw in sort of
the Trump campaign response to her.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
She had she had joined much of the rest of
the party and running to the left in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
So I think the combination of all of those things,
plus Pelosi and Kamala have never gone along going back
to San Francisco days, like Pelosi supported her opponent in
the DA race back in like two.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Thousand and four, whatever year that was. So this goes
back like a long.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Way, and Gavin Newsom didn't like her a lot of people.
I mean, Kamala, you don't have to be likable to
be to make friends. Apparently something you didn't touch on
the book that much, And I thought it was a
glaring thing with conservatives that we talk about and we've
talked about for a long time, is this the Biden
family business is very much connected to their connection towards
(19:16):
Joe and Joe's connection to power. Was that a motivating
factor in why Jill and Hunter did not want him
to drop out was that they're now and the brother
too did not want him to drop out, and they
all make money off of being close to the president
and the former vice president.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Yeah, I think, you know, with Hunter, I think he
was actually more because it wasn't like Hunter was able
to do any more business anymore, right, because there was
so much scrutiny.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
He was still signed paintings though.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Yeah, well he had to stop because of the scrutiny already,
Like in twenty twenty one, he was still painting, but
he wasn't able to sell them.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
So, you know, had Hitler been as successful as Hunter Biden,
world War two would have never happened.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
But it was I think.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
I think it was a combination of Actually, for Hunter
in particular, I think it was a combination of both,
you know, livelihood, because you know, while Biden was president,
you know, I think he felt confident he would stay
out of jail. And I think he you know, he
has like a very nice life that's sort of propped
(20:27):
up by this former Hollywood agent. He lives in like
this great beautiful house in Malibu, you know, so he's
living like a comfortable existence and doesn't have a job
besides painting.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
So I think there's a livelihood part of it.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
But also I think, you know, I think, and we
get into this a little bit, the Hunter's sobriety is
so caught up in his dad's.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Staying in office. Because you have to remember, when Joe Ran.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Decided to run in April twenty was still in like
the depths of his crack addiction, and they didn't even
know where he was most of the time.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
That scene where Joe was chasing him trying to get
him into rehab is really powerful and compelling thank you, and.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
He's you know, he's he's following, and it's it's so striking.
He gets sober like three weeks after his dad gets
in the presidential race. That's his sobriety date under oath
and core right, and so, you know, I think that
was sort of keeping him stable. You know, Jill, I
think like, as we said, like liked the life. You know,
(21:34):
her top aid would always be like, we'll do this
in the second term. We're going to do this trip
in the second term, this and that. You know, I
think there was like a livelihood the I think, and
I get the question of like why didn't you go
more into the business stuff. I think because of the
tremendous scrutiny and the Republican investigations a lot of like
(21:55):
the sketchy, the sketchy details that they got away with
and the VP years and in the in the years
between VP and president, they actually weren't doing as much.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah, but even I mean, after Biden leaves the White
House he gets a talent agent, like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
But he did that after he was vice president too.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I guess. So I don't know, I've heard. I mean,
there's reportings that they are looking to try to make
more money right now and the family needs money. And
it's just it's a fascinating thing that this was so
often their business model as being close to power, and
was Bo going to be that person to offer them
then access had he not died? I make that's a
(22:36):
question lurks in my mind. Obviously you can't. No one
knows what the answer is. But they do, but no
one else knows the answer. Say e's fascinating your book.
Robert Hurr couldn't find a job after his thing because
he was smeared so badly by Kamala Harrison Democrats.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Yeah, and you know this is a point when like
any any potential plausible deniability by like Democrats who had
spent time with hip Biden goes out the window, because
you know, you could, you could try to make an
argument that they're just like they're doing their job and
they're spinning, you know, they're spinning for him, and they're
they're trying to you know, prop him up and make
him the best you know Biden possible. But after her report,
(23:14):
they they not only slime Robert Hurr, they slime Merrik Garland,
the slim their own just department in order to try
to save him, even though I just find it, even
though they a lot of people in that White House,
even if they won't admit it publicly, knew that Robert
(23:35):
Hurr was right. They may object to him putting in
the report, but they knew he was right, and they
decided to try to destroy him.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
So George Clooney has mentioned a lot in the book
because he does all these fundraisers and he's a very
well known Democrat. Someone I never knew that was involved
in the campaign was Steven Spielberg. I don't know if
that was reported before, you guys, I never knew that before.
Spielberg was cutting videos for Biden. So he had one
on one time, significant one on one time with Joe Biden.
(24:05):
Did anyone from his camp ever say something like George
Clooney did.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Not that I'm aware of, and we would have obviously
put in the book if that was the case. But yes,
you know they were trying because and we talked about
this before, you know, like the Biden struggled with taped
remarks and that's why they had to do all the
jump cuts and everything right, and so you know, it
got to the point of in some ways you could
look at it like from the outset and you're like
(24:32):
it got to the point when they were so desperate
for him to improve that they had to bring in
Steven Spielberg as a coach.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Right, right. And I want to ask something about the
media though, because obviously this is the for conservatives. The
media angle is the angle because it was so obvious
to conservatives, and you were a great reporting at it early.
So this is not anything on you. But like Joe Scarborough,
I know you were on a show I think yesterday
the day before he'd I didn't just say Joe Biden
(25:01):
is smart. He said he's the best he's ever been
at eighty years old. Eighty one years old. That's not
true of anybody. Like, it's just not true of anybody.
You had the guy from the Atlantic who said it's
a smear and a lie. Is there. I know that
the media leans left, and I know that the media
(25:22):
does even when they get the Iraq War wrong, or
the financial crisis wrong, or these big, big, big stories
completely incorrect, and a lot of people are kind of
like hit have egg on their face. I think this
time is different than those times like the Iraq war
like the financial crisis, because the number one I guess
victims of getting it wrong on victims, But the people
(25:44):
who felt the hurt from getting it wrong were Democrats.
When I feel like when Republicans are the ones hurt
from a Median Ara getting it wrong, or small town
America or wherever, it doesn't matter as much to them.
And that's something that is completely off the mark.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
So you think that the media doesn't feel as guilty, they.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Think more guilty now than they would.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Oh oh, because they didn't when.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
The Iraq War happened and everyone got it completely wrong.
No one quit their job and said, oh my god,
I can't believe I'm such a bad reporter. This one
there at least in there and saying, wow, we have
to have a culpability moment, and they haven't, despite losing
support in the public for a very long time.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Yeah, So what's the question exactly?
Speaker 1 (26:29):
So the question is is that is that is my
assumption anywhere close to the mark, is that the people
in the media are having a come to Jesus moment
in some capacity because their readership leans left, their friends
lean left, and they all want to know what, why,
why they weren't more honest, is it like or and
(26:50):
why aren't anyone. I just have a very tough time.
I have a very tough time people like in the
Atlantic saying it's a smear, it's a lie, and everyone
in the media just refused to sit there and say
what we saw, like they just took the White House's word.
As as as Carbelanche.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
That's interesting.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I haven't detected a huge I mean I think, you know,
I think, uh, you know, I think it's too I
haven't detected actually a huge sort of like you know,
reckoning or being like I honestly still feel there's like
a defensiveness. And I think it's because they can point
(27:31):
back and like we were talking about age plenty and like.
But the thing is they were often talking about age
in a horse race sense, as like oh, the Poles
say his age is a liability and then talk about whatever.
But like that was so they were like we there
was volume, but there wasn't excavation, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
So it still hasn't happened.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I mean, I mean, I will, you know, for for
what it's worth, and I know probably I know some conservatives,
a lot of conservatives really don't like Jake Tapper. I
wasn't going to bring that up, no, no, no, But I
mean my co author, Jake Captor.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I think it's to his credit.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
That he has been like on this issue, I should
have done better, and I would.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Love to know from Jake. Does he And I'll ask
you the same question. Do you read any alternative media?
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Of course, like who I just wanted curious.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I mean, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
I listened to may Do, listen to Megan Kelly like
fairly often, okay, obviously, like free Press, a free beacon.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
I'm trying to think.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Like twitter Feed.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I'm just joking twitter Feed.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if you consider like
even like commentary or like some of those guys or
like yeah, Victor Scott Hansen or.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Just I think it's important because people we feel like
we're screaming into a void sometimes. So I think for
conservitives to even know that you read something is really important.
And I think that you're a really good journalist. I'm
not blaming, I'm not saying you, but I think that
I do feel that my last.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
They feel disrespected like and then and then like and
I can understand how then they're like we were saying
that he was having trouble, and then like two mainstream
reporters come in and're.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Like, well, we wrote a book about it.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
See, so I can understand like the skepticism. But yeah,
I mean I think I think it's like really because
the thing is that, like I think the mainstream, some
mainstream reporters just do not recognize they're still in sort
of denial about the power of alternative and that includes
(29:33):
even sort of like you know, somewhat adjacent, which is
like flagrant or like you know, obviously Rogan is the
other famous be event, you know, Cleovonne and all those
ones that.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Well establish the media matters because it is a qualifying thing.
Oftentimes alternative media just echoes or battles establishing media to themselves.
That's why I think it's important that they know you
even pay attention to them. So I know you've short
on time, so I don't want to charge. There's one
last question. I asked my Twitter followers to ask you,
what's a question ask you? So this is the one
(30:03):
that I got a lot we saw on a press
meeting the President Biden received a question ahead of time
from Courtney Sorban, was that the standard that he would
get questions in the press ahead of time and who
was in charge of giving him questions from the press
ahead of time?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
So no, it's not standard.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
So what we'll tell you what happens is that, but
they do, they do decide who gets a question, and
then what the White House will do, the Press Office
will do is then they'll go to the person, right,
and they'll like sort of sidle up and they'll be
very friendly and they're like, what are you thinking about asking?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
What do you think of?
Speaker 3 (30:35):
You know, and you know, most of the time reporters
just like show like a little bit of leg but
like not really And I think in that case it
was probably just a case where and I don't know,
but you know, sometimes I won't take that example out
of it. I think sometimes reporters sort of said too much, right,
(30:57):
But I think that was the exception to the rule.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
I think.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
The bigger you, I think, to your reader's point, though,
the bigger problem in my mind was pre selecting which
reporters got the questions. And it wasn't like he did
a ton anyway, but like I never got a question
in four years, really never, And I don't think even
I don't think Axios ever got a question, and when
I was at Politico, I don't know if Politico ever
(31:19):
got a question. So it was the pre selecting of
reporters that I mean, they know enough about which reporters
care about which issue, right, so they're like, we know
this guy's interested in this, and we this is what
we want to talk about. Right. So I think that
was actually the way that they controlled you know, what
he was going to be asked, more so than like
(31:41):
the note card thing.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Right, Well, Alex, this is the book of the year,
right now. Congratulates all the good press you've got to
all my listeners. Original Sin is a great It's a
great read one to understand the humanity of certain people
that seem so distant because they are the president and
the president's family, and also to see really what it
is like in political circles. The scene of John Fetterman
(32:04):
screaming at his fellow senators was like jaw dropping. And
I also got the audiobook as well to hear it
when I was doing things and Jake Tapper doing voices
accents is hilarious. So if you can't actually read and
you want to listen to it, his accents of like
Bernie Sanders and when I was very very funny.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
It is a great I haven't listened to the audiobook yet.
I had no idea about the accents.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Well he does accents for all the people. Oh it's
really now, there are times there it's actually like I
was like, this is actually really good, and I'm like, whoa,
this is a rough New York accent right over here.
But it is. It's really really good. Congratulations on it,
and I highly recommend it to all my listeners. I
think that it's definitely the book of the year so far.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
That really means a lot. Thank you very much for
having me.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
That was Alex Thompson once again, of the great book
Original Sin. I really did like it. I'm not just
saying it because he was here, because I don't peddle
other people's nonsense besides my own. But it was, it was.
It was a really good book, and it really really
really went into like the human interactions of senators and
stuff like that, and I think he looked he gave
us some good tidbits right there of interactions with people,
(33:12):
especially on Jill Biden. I think that she's really the
lady Macbeth figure in this entire thing. So I want
to go into my question and answer. You can ask
me a question on basically anything. Email me Ryan at
Numbers Game Podcast dot com. That's Ryan at numbers Plural
Numbers gamepodcast dot com. Send me a tweet, ask me
(33:33):
a question, and I love to answer it. Someone asked
me today, have you watched the Nancy Mace footage on
the House floor this week? So if you guys do
not know, Nancy Mace post a video of herself naked
that I think someone else took without her permission, and
she put into the Congressional record, which means it's there
for like all time. That was wild, and no, I
(33:57):
did not watch it. I didn't watch it because I've
only met Nancy Mace one time before. It was in
a private meeting with people. It wasn't on the record
or anything like that. But it was really kind of crazy.
And she was there with her then fiance, who I
think she has accused of something horrible. I don't want
to say that the accusation was. It was some kind
(34:18):
of accusation. They have since broken up. And we get
into the dinner table and Nancy is like talking a
mile a minute and one of her first things that
she says is she's like, oh, I'm down to just
one glass of wine a day, to which her person
who worked with her like went like this like like,
not a no, I forget there's no camera. He not
a no. He was like, she's not down to one
(34:38):
glass a day. And then she's introducing her fiance and
she's like, I thought that he was wealthy the first
time I met him, and turns out that he's broke.
And I was like what. I was like, Hi, my
name is Ryan. We didn't gotten to that part yet.
She was talking a mile a minute, and the context
that we had a conversation with was great afterwards, but
it was like started at an eleven and it worked
its way down from there rather than work its way up.
(35:00):
She was perfectly lovely, but very intense, and she seems
to go through husband's fiances and staff very very quickly.
I don't know what that's all about. I don't know
why she seeks this much attention on many things, but
she does. And I did not watch her include her
naked photos in the congressional record because I have other
(35:25):
things to do with my time. Anyway, that's my little
Nancy May story. These congressional stories, my political run ends
over time are pretty funny. I am like Forrest Gump.
I am like a New York version of Forrest Gump.
It's a different accent. Well, thank you guys again for
listening for this episode. Have a happy Memorial Day. I
hope you have had a great three day weekend, nice
and relaxing. And come back on Thursday and listen to
(35:46):
our next episode. Like and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. If you're generous,
and if you're feeling generous, and I hope you are,
give us a five star review. Thank you so much,
Welcome back to a Numbers Game Podcast, Ryan Kurdoski, Happy
Memorial Day. I hope you are all having a wonderful
Memorial Day, whatever you're doing, having a barbecue or going
to the racetrack like my family always did, being degenerates.
I'm just joking. We didn't. We weren't that degenerate anyway.
I hope you guys have a great Memorial Day. Thank
you for listening on this holiday. I am exhausted because
(00:23):
I spent up. I was up two nights in a
row at three o'clock in the morning each night reading
Original Sin President Biden's Decline, It's cover up and his
disastrous choice to run again by Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson.
It's a good book, really good pick. I mean, it
kept me up because it was it wasn't bad. It
was actually a patren or. It was quick and there
were things that I learned there. And I want to
(00:44):
talk about the book in this episode special Memorial the
episode maybe you're looking for summer reading. I actually do
recommend this spoke to people. I do. I know there's
a lot of anger by conservatives around, especially Jake Tapper.
And the scene ends coverage over Joe Biden. I understand,
and very few people have been as wronged by CNN
as I have, and I can still get past it.
So you can get past it read this book. Certain
(01:06):
things that I think were super interesting in this book
that I just I'm kind of blown away from one
one of the people involved in Joe Biden's like to
make Joe Biden look better and was with Joe Biden
frequently to do all of his videos with Steven Spielberg.
(01:27):
I never knew that. I did not hear. Maybe it
was reported, I don't know, but Steven Spielberg et director Jaws,
you know, Stephen Freakin Spielberg was involved in trying to
make Joe Biden look better because he couldn't record videos.
I found that absolutely fascinating. I also found it fascinating
which Democratic politicians would go on record to talk about it.
(01:49):
Governor Massachusetts would go sat there and went on record.
A senator from Colorado sat there, went on record and said,
I knew Joe Biden wasn't well. I think, in my
personal opinion, they're underplaying how concerned they actually were. Also
super interesting and fascinating part of the book, the Colorado senator.
(02:10):
I forget which one it was now because I didn't
make a big note about it. But the Colorado Senator
sat there and said, who keeps pushing Joe Biden to
the left? And it seemed like he was well aware
that where Biden Biden was doing as president wasn't always
in the Joe Biden lexicona what he did policy wise,
(02:32):
and a lot of the blame is put on Ron Klein.
Ron Klain's main purpose was to do as much as
what the progressive caucus in Congress wanted as possible. It
was always to lean to the far left, which I
think was fascinating because conservatives what always say, I understand
Biden said he was a moderate for so many years.
Obvious there was this leaning evolution of Biden to the left,
(02:55):
but it was hard left on things like immigration, to
the left of Obama on immigration. Who was responsible for that?
Just my orkis is there something in the White House?
It turns out it was Ron and Klean. Super fascinating. Also,
super interesting part of the book was I'm saying the
word super too much, so I'm going to stop that.
But really interesting part of the book was when Biden
(03:16):
said in the debate, we defeated medicaire the famous line, right.
Dana Bash looked over at Jake Tapper, passed him a
note and said, he just lost this election. Which is
great because I've never actually heard what the people in
the debate moderators are saying to each other while it's
going on, and they are communicating, So that was really fascinating.
(03:39):
The other thing that I wanted, I thought was highlighted,
was when they brought all the Democratic centers together. This
is post debate when Biden is down seven points nationally
and he's going to lose not only in the swing states,
but also in Maine, in Minnesota, in New Mexico, and
the governors of these states are saying, you're going to
lose New Mexico, You're going to lose Maine, all the
rest of it. John Fetterman gets up and starts screaming
(04:04):
at his fellow Democratic senators and saying, how dare you,
how dare you betray a great president? How dare you
do this to him? And it was and John Fetterman
was one of only five Democrats in the room, along
with Tammy Duckworth and like one or two other ones
who sat there and John Fedneron was the most vocal
(04:24):
supporter post debate, which was fascinating because Fetterman, I guess
because he suffered a seizure, but was willing to overlook
everything after we knew everything. Fetterman was completely complicit, and
I don't care that he cannot operate as a person.
We need to support him. Loved that. Loved that. Only governor,
(04:47):
by the way, to sit there democratic governor post debate
to say you need to drop out right now, ned
La Mom from Connecticut, super moderate governor. Stop saying super
moderate governor of Connecticut. Thought that was really really interesting.
And the relationship between Kamala and Joe is so deep
because Joe never wanted Kamala Harris, and Kamala Harris her
(05:12):
loyalty to Biden it had a ceiling. She was loyal
to a point, but she wouldn't put herself out there
if it meant hurting her. So much so that at
the debate, at a debate watch party, one of the
Democratic donors looked at Doug and Hooff, Kamala's husband, and
started screaming at him, you destroyed democracy, You destroyed democracy tonight.
(05:37):
I was stunned. The book has a lot. The authors
are getting scrutinized a lot, as they should. In some cases,
there's a lot of questions the authors should answer. Luckily
for us, one of the two authors, Alex Thompson, a
very very good reporter who reported on Biden's health and
well being long before the mainstream media did, is with
(05:57):
me today. So coming up next is author of the
book Original Sin, Alex Thompson. I am one of only
two conservatives that have gotten to interview one of the
authors besides Megan Kelly. So stay tuned. You're not going
to want to miss what I ask him. Alex Thompson
is the national political correspondent for Axios and the co
(06:19):
author of the book Original Sin, President Biden's decline, It's
cover up, and his disastrous choice to run for president again.
Right here, Alex, you ruin my sleep. I was up
for two nights till three o'clock in the morning reading
this book, getting everything down, getting notes and questions. It
is a page turner. It is genuinely a very very
well written, compelling, even sympathetic book. At times, it really
(06:41):
was very good. Thank you so, and I know that
conservative media is definitely having its moment with you guys,
But I don't want to ask. I don't want to.
I want since it's not to makeing Kelly interview. She's fine,
but not an interview. So my first question about like
the book, because I want to get to the bones
of the book, is when you, as someone who's written
a book before, when you write a book, when you
reach out to the publisher, you the publisher asked, who
(07:04):
is the audience? Who was the audience in mind when
you were writing this book, because a lot of times
it seems like it's for a democratic audience.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
M h. Is that you mean that this You mean
this book? You think it's very democratic your book?
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Yeah. No, I actually think our intention, and I don't
know if we achieved it, was that it actually would
be both the right and the left. We thought that basically,
we pitched that liberals are going to be sort of
disoriented and want to know how what what happened? And
our hope was that conservatives, even though a lot of
(07:40):
conservatives obviously feel deep frustration because they feel they had
been saying that, hey, he was in decline for a
long time and felt that that was not being covered
aggressively by much of the mainstream media. We thought that
still conservatives would be interested in the behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
The Highncy stories are wild. I touched upon them. When
the donor's yelling at Doug m Hoff saying you ruined democracy,
I was like, whoa and John.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
That was director Rob Regner.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
So, you know, we were hoping that even the Republicans,
I think, feel a little dis ilusions and also feel like, uh,
you know, I think that the behind the scenes details
of how the Democratic Party covered up for Biden for
so long. We thought that and we said this, I mean,
this was literally our pitch to the publisher that this
(08:35):
is not a right leaning book or a left leaning book,
Like the audience is not necessarily left lean or right.
We think there's good arguments to both sides to be interested.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I think that maybe because all the sources were mostly
all Democrats, I think that maybe that's why there's a
left leaning comp Like what Manners was speaking, I noticed that,
but I just wanted to know your opinion on that.
So there is Joe Biden, Donald Trump have something very
much comment, which is their internal ethos, is that they
believe that they are outsiders. They believe that the media,
(09:06):
the leads the establishment hate them, and that everything that
they have accomplished is in defiance of those forces. Can
you describe the ethos, because Biden almost is like a
Kennedy esque mentality where he created his own legend, like
Jackie created the legend of Camelot and then all the
living Kennedy's just assumed it. Biden created a legend of
(09:27):
himself and then everyone just assumed it. Could you describe that?
In the book?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Yeah, we even call it became a Biden theology, and
I'd say the first commandment of that theology is that
Biden always gets back up. Biden is always counted out,
and he always comes back and proves his critics wrong.
I'd say, there, you know, there's also parts of the theology,
and the same way there are with you know, with
Camelot and with whatever you know, I don't know if
(09:52):
you want to call it mag a court or something,
but with Trump that there are there are parts of
the theology that you know, if you take a set back,
certainly ring faults and you know, and you know, for
for instance, one person very close to the family, they
they basically said, you know, parts of the like parts
(10:13):
of the tenants of the Biden theology are like, you
know that hunters, you know that that Hunter's sobriety is stable,
that Joe cares more about his family than his ambition.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
That Jill is like a very warm and nice person, and.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Uh and and they repeat these things as if they
are just obvious facts.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
And don't call people fat, which Joe did at the
campaign Hampshire, which was so fascinating.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
But but the Biden press team insisted to us that
he didn't.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
So I think it's on camera.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I have to fact check you there. Uh.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I think I don't remember what their spin was. I
think they they were like, I can't remember what word
they said he said, but it was obvious, like a.
But yes, the rule, the other Biden rule of don't
call fat people fat, which you know in some ways
is being polite, but the other, the dark side of
that saying is ignore inconvenient truths.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
So the evolution of Jill Biden in your book is
fascinating because you say in the beginning of the book
that Jill did not like being a politician's wife, or
she wasn't a natural, She wasn't she didn't because she worked.
I did not know that she was a professor or
even while she was second Lady, and she all of
a sudden goes from being kind of in the background
and begrudgingly in the background to being a quasi chief
(11:44):
of staff and having her own team run the large
segments of the White House. That was why did she change?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Great question, I think.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Some people, and I guess there's no one clean answer,
according to people that i've that have talked to her,
or that worked for or our sources within the White House.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
And to your point, you know, she she taught college
even through the presidency. She's still taught at a community college.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
And I think what people around her say is that
something seemed to change over the course of the vice
presidency and then certainly in the intervening years post the
vice presidency, And some people felt that she fell in
love with the life and you know, the Vogue covers
(12:31):
and sort of you know, the elevated style and elegance.
And I also think that she definitely deeply loves Joe.
And I think I remember I remember someone said to
me that, you know, Joe Biden is nothing if not
for this, and saw him sort of in the wilderness
(12:52):
in those years seventeen eighteen and saw that this gave
him purpose and that you know, it was.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Everything he ever wanted.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
I think I think both the combination of falling in
love with life but also this, you know, it's sort
of like the dark side of loyalty and love, right,
is that it can't you know, you can end up
justifying more and more and so And to your point,
the early signs that she is going to be a
(13:19):
very as someone in the White House put it there,
several people in the whitest put one of the most
powerful first ladies in American history. The signs are there
at the beginning of twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, when her
top aide, a man named Anthony Bernall, is made one.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Of the Your characterizations of him, by the way, are hysterical. Sorry,
they're so funny. I could picture him, Evefough. I've never
seen him or heard him before. I was like, oh,
I know this person.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
He's he's certainly there is a certain archetype both as
a person in a DC sort of DC like advanced
man operative right.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Anyway, he he becomes one.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Of the deputy campaign managers on the campaign, very unusual,
and then once they go into the White House, he
becomes sort of like a shadow like personnel officer, placing
this person and that person, you know, and his main
coda is like loyalty above everything, and there is there
(14:16):
is no greater virtue and no greater sin than being
even perceived as disloyal. And he becomes seen internally as
sort of loyalty to police. And he is constantly in
the First Lady's ear. This person is this, this person
is this. And so when he and he becomes incredibly
important in the president's scheduling, he's sitting in the president
(14:37):
scheduling meetings, and you know, like basically the conversation ender
is He'll be like, Jill won't like this, you know, yea,
and then and the conversation's over. And because if you object,
then maybe, oh, is that because you're disloyal, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
And the way that she eventually.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
The combination of them two sort of slowly pushed out
anyone seen as disloyal and sort of placed all people
that they trusted, you know, I think they you know,
people have said that both if she was like the
most powerful, one of the most powerful slaves, he was
certainly probably the most powerful First Lady chief of staff.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
We've maybe ever seen.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, so you brought the Vogue covers. And that's interesting
because I remember hearing from my friends in Capitol Hill
and in various positions that that was a big contention
because Kamala Harris got a Vogue cover before Jill Biden,
which is not traditional that we've never had a female
vice president before. And Jill, Jill never seemed to like
(15:44):
Kamala Harris, she never trusted her because of the original thing.
I was calling basically Biden a racist during the debate,
and you made an illusion that she, you know, Forgabe
and not forget YadA, YadA, YadA, and Biden didn't really
want her. He woned Gretchen Whitmer and was really pushing
to her. Do you think that he ever did? And
(16:05):
he was by incredibly destructive to her presidential campaign, and
you characterizes her being more loyal to him than him
to her. Do you think that he at the end
of his presidency regretted picking her?
Speaker 3 (16:18):
No, because it's like one of those things like a
president can't ever say they regretted it, right, It's such
a consement decision. Do I think there were I can
tell you this, there were a lot of feelings among
Biden's top staff that regretted picking her. I remember while
I was reporting this book, the book's called original Sin.
They were like, no, no, no, the original sin is
not him running again, it's picking Kamala Harris because they
(16:40):
did not have confidence that she would be a good
candidate or that she could win.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Right well, even when they realized top Democrats realize something's
wrong with Joe Biden, we may need to replace him,
their initial thing is, let's get Gretchen Whitmer. Her name
comes up far more frequently in the early conversations, and
it's only the Black caucus that's It's like, you're not
going to pick You're not going to side stuff the
first black female president, female vice president for the nomination.
(17:06):
What did top Democrats see in her as a liability
early on? That they knew about his way before? I
think most other ones did well.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
She ran a disastrous twenty twenty presidential campaign despite massive
hype and you know, big crowds early on. She didn't
even she had to drop out early and didn't have
to go to Iowa.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
You can see the.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Revolving door of staff that have gone through her office
back when she was a state attorney general. She'd also
really with the exception of like twenty ten attorney general race,
she never won a tough race, and that twenty ten
attorney general race she barely won. She I mean, she
underperformed the rest of the ticket.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Two points I think are a point and a half
in California, which is good for a Democrat.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
And a lot of people thought that, you know, she
wasn't especially nice to staff and didn't seem to get
in the weeds of the substance. And I just think
also I think, you know, I think Democrats, especially this
generation of Democrats, which remembers sort of like you know,
(18:12):
Northeast liberal, were worried about you know, San Francisco liberal, right,
and what's a different kind of liberal, Yeah, but a
similar sort of you know, a similar can can be
sort of seen. Especially it's a different sort of liberal,
especially on cultural issues, which you saw in sort of
the Trump campaign response to her.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
She had she had joined much of the rest of
the party and running to the left in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
So I think the combination of all of those things,
plus Pelosi and Kamala have never gone along going back
to San Francisco days, like Pelosi supported her opponent in
the DA race back in like two.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Thousand and four, whatever year that was. So this goes
back like a long.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Way, and Gavin Newsom didn't like her a lot of people.
I mean, Kamala, you don't have to be likable to
be to make friends. Apparently something you didn't touch on
the book that much, And I thought it was a
glaring thing with conservatives that we talk about and we've
talked about for a long time, is this the Biden
family business is very much connected to their connection towards
(19:16):
Joe and Joe's connection to power. Was that a motivating
factor in why Jill and Hunter did not want him
to drop out was that they're now and the brother
too did not want him to drop out, and they
all make money off of being close to the president
and the former vice president.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Yeah, I think, you know, with Hunter, I think he
was actually more because it wasn't like Hunter was able
to do any more business anymore, right, because there was
so much scrutiny.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
He was still signed paintings though.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Yeah, well he had to stop because of the scrutiny already,
Like in twenty twenty one, he was still painting, but
he wasn't able to sell them.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
So, you know, had Hitler been as successful as Hunter Biden,
world War two would have never happened.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
But it was I think.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
I think it was a combination of Actually, for Hunter
in particular, I think it was a combination of both,
you know, livelihood, because you know, while Biden was president,
you know, I think he felt confident he would stay
out of jail. And I think he you know, he
has like a very nice life that's sort of propped
(20:27):
up by this former Hollywood agent. He lives in like
this great beautiful house in Malibu, you know, so he's
living like a comfortable existence and doesn't have a job
besides painting.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
So I think there's a livelihood part of it.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
But also I think, you know, I think, and we
get into this a little bit, the Hunter's sobriety is
so caught up in his dad's.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Staying in office. Because you have to remember, when Joe Ran.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Decided to run in April twenty was still in like
the depths of his crack addiction, and they didn't even
know where he was most of the time.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
That scene where Joe was chasing him trying to get
him into rehab is really powerful and compelling thank you, and.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
He's you know, he's he's following, and it's it's so striking.
He gets sober like three weeks after his dad gets
in the presidential race. That's his sobriety date under oath
and core right, and so, you know, I think that
was sort of keeping him stable. You know, Jill, I
think like, as we said, like liked the life. You know,
(21:34):
her top aid would always be like, we'll do this
in the second term. We're going to do this trip
in the second term, this and that. You know, I
think there was like a livelihood the I think, and
I get the question of like why didn't you go
more into the business stuff. I think because of the
tremendous scrutiny and the Republican investigations a lot of like
(21:55):
the sketchy, the sketchy details that they got away with
and the VP years and in the in the years
between VP and president, they actually weren't doing as much.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah, but even I mean, after Biden leaves the White
House he gets a talent agent, like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
But he did that after he was vice president too.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I guess. So I don't know, I've heard. I mean,
there's reportings that they are looking to try to make
more money right now and the family needs money. And
it's just it's a fascinating thing that this was so
often their business model as being close to power, and
was Bo going to be that person to offer them
then access had he not died? I make that's a
(22:36):
question lurks in my mind. Obviously you can't. No one
knows what the answer is. But they do, but no
one else knows the answer. Say e's fascinating your book.
Robert Hurr couldn't find a job after his thing because
he was smeared so badly by Kamala Harrison Democrats.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Yeah, and you know this is a point when like
any any potential plausible deniability by like Democrats who had
spent time with hip Biden goes out the window, because
you know, you could, you could try to make an
argument that they're just like they're doing their job and
they're spinning, you know, they're spinning for him, and they're
they're trying to you know, prop him up and make
him the best you know Biden possible. But after her report,
(23:14):
they they not only slime Robert Hurr, they slime Merrik Garland,
the slim their own just department in order to try
to save him, even though I just find it, even
though they a lot of people in that White House,
even if they won't admit it publicly, knew that Robert
(23:35):
Hurr was right. They may object to him putting in
the report, but they knew he was right, and they
decided to try to destroy him.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
So George Clooney has mentioned a lot in the book
because he does all these fundraisers and he's a very
well known Democrat. Someone I never knew that was involved
in the campaign was Steven Spielberg. I don't know if
that was reported before, you guys, I never knew that before.
Spielberg was cutting videos for Biden. So he had one
on one time, significant one on one time with Joe Biden.
(24:05):
Did anyone from his camp ever say something like George
Clooney did.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Not that I'm aware of, and we would have obviously
put in the book if that was the case. But yes,
you know they were trying because and we talked about
this before, you know, like the Biden struggled with taped
remarks and that's why they had to do all the
jump cuts and everything right, and so you know, it
got to the point of in some ways you could
look at it like from the outset and you're like
(24:32):
it got to the point when they were so desperate
for him to improve that they had to bring in
Steven Spielberg as a coach.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Right, right. And I want to ask something about the
media though, because obviously this is the for conservatives. The
media angle is the angle because it was so obvious
to conservatives, and you were a great reporting at it early.
So this is not anything on you. But like Joe Scarborough,
I know you were on a show I think yesterday
the day before he'd I didn't just say Joe Biden
(25:01):
is smart. He said he's the best he's ever been
at eighty years old. Eighty one years old. That's not
true of anybody. Like, it's just not true of anybody.
You had the guy from the Atlantic who said it's
a smear and a lie. Is there. I know that
the media leans left, and I know that the media
(25:22):
does even when they get the Iraq War wrong, or
the financial crisis wrong, or these big, big, big stories
completely incorrect, and a lot of people are kind of
like hit have egg on their face. I think this
time is different than those times like the Iraq war
like the financial crisis, because the number one I guess
victims of getting it wrong on victims, But the people
(25:44):
who felt the hurt from getting it wrong were Democrats.
When I feel like when Republicans are the ones hurt
from a Median Ara getting it wrong, or small town
America or wherever, it doesn't matter as much to them.
And that's something that is completely off the mark.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
So you think that the media doesn't feel as guilty, they.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Think more guilty now than they would.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Oh oh, because they didn't when.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
The Iraq War happened and everyone got it completely wrong.
No one quit their job and said, oh my god,
I can't believe I'm such a bad reporter. This one
there at least in there and saying, wow, we have
to have a culpability moment, and they haven't, despite losing
support in the public for a very long time.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Yeah, So what's the question exactly?
Speaker 1 (26:29):
So the question is is that is that is my
assumption anywhere close to the mark, is that the people
in the media are having a come to Jesus moment
in some capacity because their readership leans left, their friends
lean left, and they all want to know what, why,
why they weren't more honest, is it like or and
(26:50):
why aren't anyone. I just have a very tough time.
I have a very tough time people like in the
Atlantic saying it's a smear, it's a lie, and everyone
in the media just refused to sit there and say
what we saw, like they just took the White House's word.
As as as Carbelanche.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
That's interesting.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I haven't detected a huge I mean I think, you know,
I think, uh, you know, I think it's too I
haven't detected actually a huge sort of like you know,
reckoning or being like I honestly still feel there's like
a defensiveness. And I think it's because they can point
(27:31):
back and like we were talking about age plenty and like.
But the thing is they were often talking about age
in a horse race sense, as like oh, the Poles
say his age is a liability and then talk about whatever.
But like that was so they were like we there
was volume, but there wasn't excavation, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
So it still hasn't happened.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I mean, I mean, I will, you know, for for
what it's worth, and I know probably I know some conservatives,
a lot of conservatives really don't like Jake Tapper. I
wasn't going to bring that up, no, no, no, But I
mean my co author, Jake Captor.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I think it's to his credit.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
That he has been like on this issue, I should
have done better, and I would.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Love to know from Jake. Does he And I'll ask
you the same question. Do you read any alternative media?
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Of course, like who I just wanted curious.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I mean, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
I listened to may Do, listen to Megan Kelly like
fairly often, okay, obviously, like free Press, a free beacon.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
I'm trying to think.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Like twitter Feed.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I'm just joking twitter Feed.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if you consider like
even like commentary or like some of those guys or
like yeah, Victor Scott Hansen or.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Just I think it's important because people we feel like
we're screaming into a void sometimes. So I think for
conservitives to even know that you read something is really important.
And I think that you're a really good journalist. I'm
not blaming, I'm not saying you, but I think that
I do feel that my last.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
They feel disrespected like and then and then like and
I can understand how then they're like we were saying
that he was having trouble, and then like two mainstream
reporters come in and're.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Like, well, we wrote a book about it.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
See, so I can understand like the skepticism. But yeah,
I mean I think I think it's like really because
the thing is that, like I think the mainstream, some
mainstream reporters just do not recognize they're still in sort
of denial about the power of alternative and that includes
(29:33):
even sort of like you know, somewhat adjacent, which is
like flagrant or like you know, obviously Rogan is the
other famous be event, you know, Cleovonne and all those
ones that.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Well establish the media matters because it is a qualifying thing.
Oftentimes alternative media just echoes or battles establishing media to themselves.
That's why I think it's important that they know you
even pay attention to them. So I know you've short
on time, so I don't want to charge. There's one
last question. I asked my Twitter followers to ask you,
what's a question ask you? So this is the one
(30:03):
that I got a lot we saw on a press
meeting the President Biden received a question ahead of time
from Courtney Sorban, was that the standard that he would
get questions in the press ahead of time and who
was in charge of giving him questions from the press
ahead of time?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
So no, it's not standard.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
So what we'll tell you what happens is that, but
they do, they do decide who gets a question, and
then what the White House will do, the Press Office
will do is then they'll go to the person, right,
and they'll like sort of sidle up and they'll be
very friendly and they're like, what are you thinking about asking?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
What do you think of?
Speaker 3 (30:35):
You know, and you know, most of the time reporters
just like show like a little bit of leg but
like not really And I think in that case it
was probably just a case where and I don't know,
but you know, sometimes I won't take that example out
of it. I think sometimes reporters sort of said too much, right,
(30:57):
But I think that was the exception to the rule.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
I think.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
The bigger you, I think, to your reader's point, though,
the bigger problem in my mind was pre selecting which
reporters got the questions. And it wasn't like he did
a ton anyway, but like I never got a question
in four years, really never, And I don't think even
I don't think Axios ever got a question, and when
I was at Politico, I don't know if Politico ever
(31:19):
got a question. So it was the pre selecting of
reporters that I mean, they know enough about which reporters
care about which issue, right, so they're like, we know
this guy's interested in this, and we this is what
we want to talk about. Right. So I think that
was actually the way that they controlled you know, what
he was going to be asked, more so than like
(31:41):
the note card thing.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Right, Well, Alex, this is the book of the year,
right now. Congratulates all the good press you've got to
all my listeners. Original Sin is a great It's a
great read one to understand the humanity of certain people
that seem so distant because they are the president and
the president's family, and also to see really what it
is like in political circles. The scene of John Fetterman
(32:04):
screaming at his fellow senators was like jaw dropping. And
I also got the audiobook as well to hear it
when I was doing things and Jake Tapper doing voices
accents is hilarious. So if you can't actually read and
you want to listen to it, his accents of like
Bernie Sanders and when I was very very funny.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
It is a great I haven't listened to the audiobook yet.
I had no idea about the accents.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Well he does accents for all the people. Oh it's
really now, there are times there it's actually like I
was like, this is actually really good, and I'm like, whoa,
this is a rough New York accent right over here.
But it is. It's really really good. Congratulations on it,
and I highly recommend it to all my listeners. I
think that it's definitely the book of the year so far.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
That really means a lot. Thank you very much for
having me.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
That was Alex Thompson once again, of the great book
Original Sin. I really did like it. I'm not just
saying it because he was here, because I don't peddle
other people's nonsense besides my own. But it was, it was.
It was a really good book, and it really really
really went into like the human interactions of senators and
stuff like that, and I think he looked he gave
us some good tidbits right there of interactions with people,
(33:12):
especially on Jill Biden. I think that she's really the
lady Macbeth figure in this entire thing. So I want
to go into my question and answer. You can ask
me a question on basically anything. Email me Ryan at
Numbers Game Podcast dot com. That's Ryan at numbers Plural
Numbers gamepodcast dot com. Send me a tweet, ask me
(33:33):
a question, and I love to answer it. Someone asked
me today, have you watched the Nancy Mace footage on
the House floor this week? So if you guys do
not know, Nancy Mace post a video of herself naked
that I think someone else took without her permission, and
she put into the Congressional record, which means it's there
for like all time. That was wild, and no, I
(33:57):
did not watch it. I didn't watch it because I've
only met Nancy Mace one time before. It was in
a private meeting with people. It wasn't on the record
or anything like that. But it was really kind of crazy.
And she was there with her then fiance, who I
think she has accused of something horrible. I don't want
to say that the accusation was. It was some kind
(34:18):
of accusation. They have since broken up. And we get
into the dinner table and Nancy is like talking a
mile a minute and one of her first things that
she says is she's like, oh, I'm down to just
one glass of wine a day, to which her person
who worked with her like went like this like like,
not a no, I forget there's no camera. He not
a no. He was like, she's not down to one
(34:38):
glass a day. And then she's introducing her fiance and
she's like, I thought that he was wealthy the first
time I met him, and turns out that he's broke.
And I was like what. I was like, Hi, my
name is Ryan. We didn't gotten to that part yet.
She was talking a mile a minute, and the context
that we had a conversation with was great afterwards, but
it was like started at an eleven and it worked
its way down from there rather than work its way up.
(35:00):
She was perfectly lovely, but very intense, and she seems
to go through husband's fiances and staff very very quickly.
I don't know what that's all about. I don't know
why she seeks this much attention on many things, but
she does. And I did not watch her include her
naked photos in the congressional record because I have other
(35:25):
things to do with my time. Anyway, that's my little
Nancy May story. These congressional stories, my political run ends
over time are pretty funny. I am like Forrest Gump.
I am like a New York version of Forrest Gump.
It's a different accent. Well, thank you guys again for
listening for this episode. Have a happy Memorial Day. I
hope you have had a great three day weekend, nice
and relaxing. And come back on Thursday and listen to
(35:46):
our next episode. Like and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. If you're generous,
and if you're feeling generous, and I hope you are,
give us a five star review. Thank you so much,
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